148: Jason Wachob - CEO of MindBodyGreen: How To Build A Life, Not A Resume
00:00 Why do you want to make more money? Why do you want to be in a relationship? You ultimately get to this answer is you think it's going to bring you happiness. And so why not just make the shortcut? And I believe in trying to build a life. And I think there's nothing wrong with trying to achieve massive success and wealth. But I think it's about enjoying the journey along the way. And this magic balance of what I call the middle path.
00:27 And so on one hand, you know, you're a type A. you're working hard, you're kicking ass, you're setting goals, and you're achieving them, and you're advancing, and that's fantastic. But at the same time, I believe the sort of magic happens with having a greater spiritual and emotional awareness to what you're doing. Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk, believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work on learning the art and science behind the makeup of other successful leaders.
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02:01 That's learningleader.com slash website. We'll get you connected directly with the people at DeOre Design and get a good deal for you. I promise you guys will enjoy it. Learningleader.com slash website. Hey, and welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am Ryan Hawking. Thank you so much for being here.
02:22 I really enjoyed this conversation with our featured leader, Jason Walkup. He's the founder and CEO of Mind, Body Green, the leading independent media brand dedicated to wellness. He's been featured in the New York Times, entrepreneur, fast company, and Vogue. Jason has a B.A. in history from Columbia University where he played varsity basketball for four years. He's also the best-selling author of a book titled, Wealth, How I Learned to Build a Life, not a resume.
02:51 A few of the topics we got into. Starting his company, Mind, Body Green, and not making any money for two and a half years. And this is when it was his full-time job. Then why it's important to be climbing the right ladder and how to know if you are on the correct one. I thought this part of the conversation was fascinating and Jason shares some incredible stories around it. And then a quote he lives by. It's by Bob Dylan.
03:14 I think you guys will like it. A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night. And in between does what he wants to do. Ladies and gentlemen, so excited for Jason Wacham. All right, Jason, thank you so much for being here on the Learning Leader Show. I'm really excited to have you. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks so much.
03:42 It's an honor to be here, Ryan. I got a question to get us rolling. That's around, you know, I think you've done a really great job of surrounding yourself, based on all the research I've done and talking to you prior to this conversation. You've done a great job of surrounding yourself with incredibly high performers, people who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time. And I'm curious from your perspective, when you study those around you, when you reflect on yourself and some of the successes you've had, what are some of the common themes or common
04:13 characteristics of people who seem to sustain excellence over an extended period of time? Sure. Good question. A couple, a couple, lots of thoughts here. You know, first of all, like, I just like being around people who are positive and passionate and doing what they love and successful. I wouldn't say I study per se, but like, I just like being around them. I think there is palpable energy. And I'm sure we've. all had situations where, you know, we all have friends or family members. You just love being around them. They're always upbeat. They're always happy. They're always doing something interesting. They're always supportive. They're always asking how you're doing. Like, it just
04:56 feels good to be around them. And in the other hand, we all have friends, hopefully not too many of them, who they're a bit of a, you know, the Debbie Downer, so to speak. It's, you say, how are you doing? And it begins, it begins a complaining session. And sure, that's part of life. And we're all human and we have ups and downs, but it's the same thing over and over. And so, you know, I think there's something to be said for hanging around people who are positive and do it and passionate. And I just gravitate towards that. And I think in terms of like characteristics of those people, I come back to, they're passionate.
05:40 They are always progressing. You know, actually, the other night I was lucky enough to go to the screening of the new Tony Robbins documentary about his date with Destiny and Tony spoke after. Incredible speaker. I think everyone knows that. Yeah. You know, and he had this great line. You know, if you're not progressing, you're just, you're dead. And it's true in so many words.
06:07 And I think, you know, going back to characteristics of these people who are a part of. positive and successful, they're always progressing. It's this blend of being grateful and at the same time pushing forward. I think people take timeouts every once in a while, but those timeouts are to recharge and to relax and renew. But I go back to this characteristic, these are people who are not complacent. They are always pushing forward. And I think it's not because they're quote unquote looking for something. I think there's a danger of just continually like searching and floating and wanting more and not being happy and not being grateful for what you have. I go back to this blend of being grateful for where you are, but at the same time, always looking to make progress.
06:55 I love it, man. Let's say Jason, you had a dinner party and you meet somebody for the first time and they don't know who you are and you introduce yourself and the natural first question that most people will ask you is, so what do you do? How do you respond when you get that question? Response actually varies depending on who it is, but I usually say I run a lifestyle health and wellness media company called Mind Body Green. Okay. Why would that, why would, that seems like a pretty concrete role. Why would that vary based on who you're talking to? Well, some people you can see right, you know, you can gauge whether they're familiar with us, other. Other others have not and I have to go a bit deeper.
07:40 But I usually sort of start around that place and then go from there. Sometimes it goes a lot deeper. A lot of times people are fans. Oh yeah, I love my body green. Sometimes they'll start, you know, or do you follow media? And the answer is yes. Like, have you heard of mind body green? And depending on the person, I try to gauge that.
08:01 I see how my intuition, I test my intuition sometimes in those circumstances. Gotcha. Okay. So for the people who, let's say, I mean, I know you get 10 million plus, I don't know, what are the actual numbers now as far as, yeah, it's still around that number. About 10 million unique visitors to mindbodygreen.com per month, which is just an insane. It's just the numbers are out of this world. For those who haven't gone there yet, that may be listening right now, what would you say mind, mind body green stands for? So we're dedicated to helping you live your best life, and we have a distinct point of view of what that means. And so my body green is one word, and that's strategic. We believe that true health and happiness, living your best life is it comes down to health and happiness. And it is our belief that it is the blend of mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, and environmental well-being.
09:01 They are all interconnected. they all play a vital role, hence my body green, one word, not three. You know, the example I use there is, look, you could be eating all organic and veggies and removing toxins out of your home and living in nature and all that stuff. But if you're stressed out of your mind, you're not going to be living your best life. You're probably not going to be healthy. You're probably not going to be happy and vice versa. You know, if you're meditating all day and you're doing your own,
09:32 go all day, but if you're putting toxins into your home and your environment, that's not going to work either. And so, you know, with that, we have this distinct point of view, which no one else in media, I think, really has, that this is the key to living your best life. And so my body green is that destination for you, wherever you are in your life. And, you know, whether it's through content, we have video classes, if you want to go deeper and really engage in the topics, We do events, and it's this idea that, look, like, wherever you're at in your life, we're here for you. And we change and understanding that.
10:09 So in your 20s, it may be about the body and exercise and you want to learn more about movement or nutrition. Then in your 30s, you know, you start to get stressed and it comes back to the mind or relationships. You're going through a breakup. And then maybe you're in your 40s, you know, you're starting to think about the environment and your relationship to nature and toxins. And then in your 50s, it comes back to the mind again. And so, you know, we believe we evolve.
10:33 And that's true. And I've seen that in my own life. And wherever you're at in your life, we have something for you to help you live your best life, whether it's through content from some of our, we have 4,400 contributors who write for us around the world, including best-selling authors, doctors, nutritionists, pro athletes, and your everyday wellness enthusiasts, you know, people who who've gone through incredible journeys and have amazing personal stories to tell. And in our video class business, for example,
11:02 if you read an article about meditation and you're excited and you want to learn, well, we've got numerous classes with one of the best meditation teachers in the world, Charlie Knowles, and you can learn from him. And he's right there. And it's streaming. Take it wherever you go, any device. We do events as well that help bring the brand to life and connect with people. And so in a nutshell, sorry for the long answer.
11:24 We're here to help you live your best life. life and we have a distinct point of view that is through this lifestyle as a fundamental, physical, spiritual, emotional, and environmental well-being. Mind-body, Green. I got you. So for the very small subset of people listening who potentially view this outlook on life, this positive psychology, so to speak, with a little bit of skepticism, how do you respond to those types of people? I think take a look take a look you know I do not think there is a one size
12:01 fits all approach to health and wellness and if you're a skeptic that's fine I get it I was a skeptic in a lot of ways take a look around my body green see if there's something that resonates you know my I'm pretty optimistic
12:17 I feel pretty good that you're going to find one thing that resonates and if you do that's a win and I don't expect everyone to agree with everything and that's just not life like we live in a day and age where we're specifically in america where we are very polarized yeah so take a look around and if there's something there that's helpful great and i am not a preacher i do not believe in making people feel bad about themselves i believe in being inclusive and and approachable and if you want to take a look around. Take a look. Take a look. If there's something, something you like, fantastic, if it's not
12:51 for you. But having been 41 and having had some interesting life experiences, and I'm coming from a guy talk about skeptics, I played basketball at Columbia. I was president of my fraternity. I worked as a traitor. I was not your typical wellness guy. A lot of the stuff we talk about works. and is meaningful and can change your life and I can speak from experience. I am by no means a hippie. You kind of started getting into your story, which is going to be my next question, was why start this? And actually more, I don't know, maybe I'm more interested in this than others, but
13:34 when you initially started mind-body green, one, where were you at in your life? What were you doing? Was it a side hustle? Was it your main thought? Or, and what did you, did you have a vision for what it could become? Because I mean, I don't know if anyone could start a website and think, oh, one day we'll have 10 million people, 10 million unique people will be reading us per month. You know, I mean, just like I said, insane numbers. So I'd love for you to take us back to the beginning of why you did it and what you thought it could become.
14:05 Sure. So, as I mentioned, I was a trader. I traded equities for five years. And after 9-11, I was in New York not too far away from the tax. And just it really affected me like it affected a lot of people. And it started to really think about what do I want to do with my life? You know, I'm just not, you know, I'm doing well. I'm making money.
14:27 I'm able to pay off all my school loans. I'm able to buy my mother a car. Like I have freedom. Like, how much money were you making at that time? So my best year, my second year trading, I made an 80. hundred thousand dollars okay all right so that puts it in first kid yeah I'm 25 and boom you know I was a kid I didn't I didn't grow up with money and you know always saw money is just something I wanted I said like I want money I don't know what this is like and you know I could pay off all my college
14:57 debt I could I could buy my car I could travel and I looked as money as this thing that I thought would really buy happiness like a lot of people do and money can buy look like I don't as I say I start off the book like don't get me wrong I like money but there's more to life. And so, 9-11 had a profound effect and, you know, I'll never forget the best month I had as a trader, my biggest bonus ever. I was in a relationship and it was falling apart at the time and talk about, you know, contrast. Here I am.
15:28 I've arrived. I have this huge month, huge bonus, can pay off my college debt in one bonus jacket for one month. I bought my mom a car. Like I gave back, I actually gave money back to Columbia as the basketball. programs, I always wanted to do. And it's like I'm here, I'm a ride that my relationships fall apart and I'm miserable. And I'm like, whoa.
15:50 Like this, so it was a real awakening. You know, I think, you know, I always say like don't, don't, you don't spend your life climbing the wrong ladder, get to the top and realize you're on the wrong ladder. I started to climb that ladder. By no means I get to the top, but I started to see like, wow, like, is this really the right ladder for me maybe it's not and so 9-11 happened and just started to have one foot out the door so you know left trading to join a health care startup which didn't work then started trying started my own mail-water low-carb cheesecake company which didn't work and that was like devastating and I
16:30 you know poured my heart and soul into it and and had to move back home and there was moments in that experience where I was like shit I'm going back backwards. Like, here I was this high-flying guy on Wall Street and I sacrificed everything and now I'm like 30 and I'm moving back home. Like, I'm going backwards. Like, why did I ever leave Wall Street? You know, it was just demoralizing. I felt like for Seinfeld fans, like I felt like George Costanza. I'm like, I'm a loser, you know, except I'm taller and I have hair and hopefully better looking. But, you know, and so it was tough. And the next thing, you know, I had a friend. He was starting an organic cookie company, and I started to gain this great knowledge of
17:14 consumer products, the natural products, and he asked me to come on as co-founder and CEO, so I jumped right into it and had this amazing organic chocolate chip cookie company, and we were in every whole food's market in the country at the time, which meant I was flying a lot. I flew almost, I think I got almost 150,000 miles domestic that year. I'm 6'7 and it was a tough year we were growing so fast and then we had issues with raising capital
17:45 and I met my wife and I still didn't have money, you know, I fell in love and wanted to buy an engagement ring and I had to borrow money for my mother for that and it was just really tough and so the flying flying's form of compression is not optimal to find that amount of mileage plus if you do the math on a 6 foot 7 man
18:06 and mostly a coach seat, it is not a pretty sight. So flying combined with stress, and I had an old back injury from college, it turned out I had two extruded discs in my lower back, and I had excruciating pain in my right leg. I could not walk. I could maybe walk like a block, and I would be keeling over. I had trouble sitting.
18:30 The only time I was not in pain was lying flat in the bed, and it was terrible. and went to a specialist, went to a doctor, and he did the full workup, and he said, look, you got two extruded discs. You need back surgery. It's non-negotiable. So I said, okay, like, you know, not opposed to surgery, but I generally want to avoid it, specifically back surgery because it's not, the success rate is not that great.
18:56 And so sought a second opinion, and he said the same thing. He said, you need back surgery. And I was like, okay, you know, and almost like walking out the door. the guy said, you know, some therapy or yoga could help, but, you know, you still need surgery. So I said, okay, you know, I'll try some yoga. And so I started doing some really light yoga. And I'm talking like five to ten minutes in the morning and at night. And over the course of the few weeks, I started to feel better.
19:24 And then over the course of the few months, I completely healed. And in this process, I started to do a little more Googling and started to look at things like stress and sleep and nutrition, the environment. and spirituality and all these things were interconnected. And I was like, holy cow, you know, everyone's got this wrong. Every print magazine leads you to believe that health is about vanity and weight loss for the most part. And at the time, I looked pretty good. You know, I was fit. But I was a mess.
19:55 It was fall apart. I was like, whoa, like, it's all wrong. It's this blend of Eastern meets Western. It's this blend of, you know, more holistic. It's more nuanced. It's mental, physical, spiritual, emotional, environmental well-being. It's just lifestyle. Mine, body, green.
20:11 And that was it. And started, you know, bought the domain, had no idea what to do with it at the time at 2007. Still running the cookie company. Founders who were senior developers who thought it was a great project. And then in 2009 went all in. And they kept their day jobs and kept working. I went all in and started with the first blog post. They did one every day.
20:43 And my wife would chip in and write it on the weekends and nights. And it was, I could say it was full time, but it was a quote unquote side hustle. It was for north of two and a half years, I did not make any money. Wow. So you weren't working another job? No. I went all in. And I committed.
21:03 And my wife was very supportive and it was hard. But we got through it and had this vision of creating a destination with this idea of making this lifestyle more approachable and getting it on the map. And so thought it could be big, so to speak. But what's been so special about this journey as we continue to grow, I think the vision becomes bigger. and in many ways where we are today was probably what I had in mind for the finish line. You know, back in 2012 when, you know, I started to raise capital and started to hire and here we are. And we're in many ways sort of near that finish line from that first vision. And the vision has continued to expand.
21:50 And now I look at it like we're at starting line. Like we're just getting started. I think there's so much we can do that we're not doing. So to answer your question, And the vision was big, but it's only gotten bigger. And to me, that's exciting. Can you think of specific moment, a specific moment or moments along the way where it went from like grinding out, writing blog posts, maybe not getting a lot of views to then all of a sudden a certain, whether it's a post or maybe you got some publicity or something happened. I don't know.
22:29 But can you think back to any of those moments specifically where it changed your business and your life for the better? Sure. I still have those moments. I'm like, we're still. Yeah. Don't get me wrong when we still are pushing and still in the struggle.
22:43 As I always say, you know, I've been fortunate enough to be around some really successful entrepreneurs and CEOs and one stage piece of advice I've gotten is your problems don't go away. They just change. You know, so I'll go back to 2012. So in 2012, so we're officially launched doing a blog post today in September of 2009. And it didn't get to 100,000 unique visitors a month until January 2011. So over a year, it's grind. And then in 2012, 2011 and end of 2011 start to see things tick up, get to 550, I want to say in January, 2012.
23:26 and that's when I knew we had something. Like traffic started to pick up. It's like you're grinding, you're grinding, you're grinding, you're growing incrementally, and then you're starting to pick up speed. And then all through 2012, we just grew. I think it was like eight straight months. And so we crossed a million the summer of 2012. And that was when, like, I felt confident.
23:49 We were making money. We were profitable. That's when I knew I really had something. It went out and raised little capital. And so it was around that time. In 2012, I started to feel like, okay, I've got it. Like, this really, we really have something here. This is not a hobby.
24:06 This is not a passion project. Like, this is, this can be a real business. What made you, so, you know, as I was preparing for a time, I read this interesting post that you put on LinkedIn that, and it's titled, The Seven Simple Things, no one tells you about being an entrepreneur, but should. And point number three on that is raising capital can be the fastest way to kill your business. So I'm curious, what made you want to do something that could potentially have been created the fastest way to kill your business? Well, look, I believe, I think raising capital, you know, I'll go back to Tony Robbins.
24:44 He's on my mind because I went to that because of that the other night. You know, he said something along the lines are like two great ways to succeed in a business and do it faster. One is capital, because capital can speed things up, and two is getting advice from people who've done what you want to do because there is a science there and there are things to be learned and you could spend your entire life chugging away, but you can get there a lot faster with capital and knowledge from someone who has experience specifically in what you're looking to do. So with capital, you know, I think it's a couple things.
25:19 It's like I think capital can speed things up, but I think we are in an age where raising capital is glorified. I think the valley is glorified. I think, you know, what's tricky here, so as an entrepreneur, you're going, you're chugging along, and there aren't many metrics, you know, and one metric is raising capital and what valuation. So psychologically for a lot of entrepreneurs, the more capital you can raise at a higher valuation, it feels like a win. And so I think a lot of ways, and it's attractive because you can do the things you want to do really fast. My belief is raising capital, if you're not ready, can kill your business. And when I come down to product and people. And so at the time, we raised very little capital.
26:11 and I thought the product was solid. I thought the people were solid. And with this capital, we could advance the business in a way that I felt comfortable doing. And so let me be clear, like, not against raising capital, but I think you have to be very mindful of how much you were raising and have you nailed product and people at that specific moment and you have a very clear roadmap of what you want to do.
26:37 And so, you know, that's my big warning to entrepreneur. I think in a perfect world, you would grow organically and never have to raise capital. Raising capital is exhausting. The moment you take money from an outside investor, they're not giving you money because, sure, they're giving you money because they like you and they believe in you, but they expect something in return. And that's fine. That's how it works.
27:03 But you're on the clock. And that's something people need to be mindful of. And, you know, for me, it was the right thing to do because there is this larger mission. And the mission is to serve the world in many ways and build a very big lifestyle media company that changes the lives of people. And do that fast, but mindfully. And capital could help advance that. So that was why I did it. But it's just something I think people should be very mindful of.
27:37 of what raising capital means for their life and the company and how it impacts decision-making. And I could talk a whole, we just get into it, but I'll leave it at that. I guess. No, no, it makes sense. It was just interesting to hear, read that post. I thought it was a really well, well-done post, helpful for a lot of people and then to hear your story around raising capital to yourself. So the other, there's, there's so many different aspects to you and things we get, we could talk for hours. But another interesting project you took on was you wrote a book.
28:14 And the book is titled Wealth, W-E-L-L-T-H. But the subtitle is interesting. It's how I learned to build a life, not a resume. The reason I think that's really interesting, Jason, is because of the, I've gotten a lot of advice from mentors in my life. And some of the advice, and I think these are from really smart people, is like they almost create spreadsheets of box checking from a resume perspective that you need to do in order to continue to grow. And it always, whenever I get that advice, it kind of creates an interesting conversation because I'm not just going to sit there and not tell them what I think because I don't really view the world that way. And I mean, I'm a big on focusing on being great at what I'm currently doing in this very moment. And if you continue to focus on that, that good things will happen.
29:11 And so I'm curious if you could describe why you wrote this book and what it means to build a life and not a resume. Well, to me, you're exactly right. There are so many people who check boxes and look, like, I get it. I think, you know, if you're really smart, you're probably really driven and you want to succeed and your friends around you. And I'm talking like if most people want to succeed financially and there's nothing wrong with that. And I think if you're a type A, it's very easy to get caught up in catching up with the Joneses. And it's that next promotion. It's that, you know, next exotic vacation.
29:53 I'm sharing that on Instagram and my life is wonderful. And look, like, that's okay. you know but there's more to life I think you know I think we need to step back and ask the questions you know why are we doing what we doing
30:08 why you know what's what's the goal here what's the motivation I think if you you know talk to people you know why do you want more why do you want to make more money
30:16 you know why do you want to be in a relationship it's you ultimately get to this answer is you think it's going to bring you happiness and so why not just make the shortcut and I I believe in trying to build a life.
30:30 And I think there's nothing wrong with trying to achieve massive success and wealth. But I think it's about enjoying the journey along the way and this magic balance of what I call the middle path. And so on one hand, you're type A, you're working hard, you're kicking ass, you're setting goals, and you're achieving them, and you're advancing. And that's fantastic. But at the same time, I believe the sort of magic happens. with having a greater spiritual and emotional awareness to what you're doing.
31:04 And that's powerful. And having awareness to be able to be appreciative, to be able to be grateful along the way, to be able to be connected to yourself, where you have the intuition, where if you're trying to bang down a door and it's not opening, no matter what you do, to have that awareness to take a step back and say, like,
31:25 whoa, like, is this the right door? like you know whoa and then what I found sometimes you step back and then all of a sudden boom there's a door to my left and it just pops open it's like oh wow this all makes sense I'm going to walk in here and that's hard I think it's very hard I think that is the the beauty of life and the struggle of life it's this it's this you know you have to do work you have to work hard working hard will get you very far probably like 80% of the way most instances I think life simple that way but at the same time you have to have a deeper spiritual awareness you have to be grateful for what you have along the way and appreciate it and that's powerful and it's this
32:06 idea of building a life and being mindful of that journey not just putting your head down and going I saw um you share a quote on a previous interview that you've done I know you've done a lot of them and the quote is uh by bob Dylan and that is a man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do. What made you pick that quote out? I love quotes. I'm a quote junkie, and I love Bob Dylan.
32:37 I thought there was just something like very symbolic about freedom. And I think a lot of people, you know, love freedom. And it's this idea, this notion that's symbolic of following your passion, you know, waking up, living your dream, living your passion, putting your head down, you know, being in flow, just going at it, and then that's it. You give it your all. You give it your passion. And then you go to bed and you do it again. And when you can do that, that's amazing. It's not, it's not for everyone. It's not, it's very hard to achieve. It's very hard to do. You have to work hard at
33:18 that to get to get to a place where you can do that. Some people don't have a passion. that that's okay but I think it's magical what Jason so let's say somebody is listening and they're they're they have this um I'd say maybe they're conflicted because they're thinking like this is great this is cool I love what Jason's saying but I don't know how realistic this sounds for me because I am a 39 year old mom of three who has a mortgage multiple car payments three kids a lot of responsibility. I need to make money. I have a good paying job right now that I think is pretty good.
34:01 Pretty good. But I'm also looking at somebody like you, and it would be, you know, they're saying that would be incredible. And so they kind of just, they, after the podcast is over, they kind of turn it off and they go back to their life and they don't really change anything. Sure. What do you say to those people? So a lot of people come to me with.
34:23 with ideas and want to become an entrepreneur. You know, I go back, you know, I touched on raising capital and how it's glorified. I think being an entrepreneur is glorified right now in society. I think in the late 90s when I was coming out of college, Wall Street was glorified. I think that shifted to being an entrepreneur. And when people come to me and they say,
34:42 I want to start a business or I want to do this, I will try to talk them out of it. It is not for everyone. It is not for most people. If you want to become an entrepreneur, you have to be very comfortable with ambiguity. And you have to, and I'm talking extremely comfortable. And if you are not, and that's just one thing.
35:05 Like, it is not for you. If you, you know, are comfortable with going to bed at night and not knowing if your business is going to succeed, if you are, you know, not comfortable with potentially working for, 20 hours straight. If you are, you know, there are a laundry list of things, but
35:28 most people should not do it. And look, like, getting your question, like, there is a practicality of life. Like, there are lots of hardworking folks out here and they're trying to make ends meet, and I appreciate that. And that's important. And to those people, look, like, I'm not saying
35:44 drop what you're doing and start a blog or, you know, become a life coach or what have you. I come to this idea of building a life. And so I think for everyone, you know, even the guy is, you know, breaking his back, laying brick, you know, what do you like doing? You know, find time for that. It's this idea of once again building a life. So if you're breaking your back all day, you know, try to find, what do you like?
36:11 Do you like going out to restaurants? Do you like travel? Do you like hiking? Do you have time for yourself? Can you set aside five minutes to be quiet and breathe or meditate? Do you have time to go to the ballgame? You know, you can structure a life. If your job is your job and it pays the bills, look, that's great.
36:34 A lot of people don't have that. Take that and find time to create a life that you love. Find time to give yourself the time to do the things you really like. And what I find is people who go through that introspective process usually find time for the things they really like to do. And it's just larger idea of, look, I believe in these fitness as an example, like I always say that the best exercise is the one you actually do. And I think the problem with exercise sometimes the people is they do things they don't like and then they just give up. you know, if you like doing something, if you like running, odds are you're probably going to find time to run. If you hate running, like myself, like, I'm just not going to run and I could start, but I'm probably going to stop.
37:25 It's not going to be fulfilling. So, you know, if you've got a job, if you've got a career, if you're paying the bills and you're happy, like, that's great. I would just say, make sure to carve out time to find the things that you like doing. And that's great. And that's it. And that's fantastic. And that's a big part of, you know, building a life in my mind. Find the things you like doing and try to bring them to bring them into your life in a bigger way.
37:52 You know, Kevin Kelly, a really interesting guest, former guest on the show, Jason, told me for everybody, there is, there has never been a better time in the world than right now to start something. So even if it's just, let's say you do enjoy whatever, going to the, ballgame and you want to write about that. I think it's a good idea to publish that, to put it out in the world for others to see, even if only two people originally start reading it, and you have this passion of maybe it's whatever it may be, but putting it out there, I think people would be surprised and to see, I mean, this podcast, it started with one listener, you know, at the very beginning, 150 plus episodes over a year ago started with one listener.
38:37 and the listeners here in Ohio, Dayton, Ohio, and now there's people listening in 112 countries around the world. It's awesome. And so to think of that over a year ago is insane. I mean, it's certainly not 10 million uniques a month, but you know what I mean? And so I think that that could be said, and you don't have to stop or change anything
38:57 in order to do that, to start that. And who knows what could potentially happen. I think the growth people will see if they decide to start doing that, which there's no better time than right now. will be an incredibly fulfilling aspect to your life. Yeah, and it comes down to passion. You know, I started this because I was passionate about it. And, you know, I couldn't do something for two and a half years for no money if I weren't passionate about it.
39:27 And I do what I do every day because I'm passionate about it. All those other things are great, but it comes down to passion. So absolutely, yes, like if you're passionate about something, like find time for it. And if the idea evolves into a business and the business grows, that's fantastic. And that is incredibly fulfilling and awesome. But if it doesn't, that's okay. Because odds are if you're passionate about it, you're really happy doing it anyway. And that's fantastic.
39:54 And it comes down to what are we all searching for in the first place? Happiness. Yeah, exactly. That's great. This has been phenomenal, Jason. I really appreciate you investing your time with me here in a learning leader show. I got a question, when you first heard the phrase learning leader, what was your initial thought? You know, I kind of really like it because, you know, you're never done learning.
40:20 And I think to be a great leader, you can't be complacent. And great leaders are not complacent. And you're always looking to you better. You know, you're always looking to you better. You're always looking to progress. You know, it's progress, progress, progress. And you have to evolve. you have to grow.
40:36 And I think the moment you stop doing that, it's over, so to speak. You've got to find something else. You got to, you know, life just stops being fun. And so I am a big believer in personal development and learning and evolving. And so I love it. Thank you so much. Are there any places other than mindbodygreen.com that you would send our listeners to learn more about you online? Sure. Well, you know, definitely check out my book. There's a lot more of the personal stories in there and my journey. It's called Wealth, W-E-L-L-T-H. And that is at Wealth, W-E-L-L-T-H.com and the books on Amazon and Kindle and Barnes & Noble and Independent Bookstores and all that stuff. But, you know, check out Mind Buddy Green. Check out the book. And I'm on Twitter and Snapchat and Instagram at Jason Wacob.
41:34 It's W-A-C-H-O-B-B as-B-and-Boy. So I'm in all those places. I hope you check me out somewhere. Awesome. Again, thanks so much, Jason, for being here. I really appreciate it and absolutely plan to continue this dialogue as we both progress. Awesome. Thanks so much, Ryan.
41:50 I really appreciate it. All right. Thanks, Jason. This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but we have plenty more to keep you locked in until next time. Head over to LearningLeadershow.com for more information and to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at Ryan Hawk 12. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The Learning Leader Show.
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