Vinnie Jones on getting sober, mediating with Steven Seagal, and the Gazza incident
00:00Hi there. Am I shouting? Hi there, welcome to the Louis Theroux. He's known for his pauses podcast.In this episode, I'm joined by a footballer turned actor whose sheer force of personality has carried him from the pitch to Hollywood, Vinny Jones.Vinny Vincent Jones made a name for himself during the 80s as one of the most feared midfielders in English football, most notably at Wimbled.where he became the beating heart of the legendary crazy gang,who scrapped and battled their way to a stunning 1988 F-A-Cup final win over Liverpool.It was one of the biggest upsets in the tournament's history.Vinny was also the subject of one of the most iconic football photoswhen his rough handling, that's a euphemism, of Paul Gaza Gascoigne,
01:03was captured by photographer Montefresco.He cradled his chestnuts, not too gently.At the tail end of his footballing career, Vinny reinvented himself entirely as a screen presenceappearing in more than a hundred film and TV projects.Some of them superb, excellent, some of them not, which Vinny himself would own up to.He forged a creative partnership with director Guy Ritchie in lock, stock and two smoking barrels,where Vinny played debt collector Big Chris, famous for the line,It's been emotional.
01:38Remember that, which apparently Vinnycame up with himself, and also Snatch, and most recently, The Gentleman on Netflix.Vinny's been candid about his years-long battle with alcohol and the loss of his wife, Tanya,who passed away from cancer in 2019. We discussed a couple of incidences on his road to sobrietyin the conversation. Incidences is a kind way of saying, physical altercations, most notablya tussle with then Daily Mirror reporter Ted Oliver, where it was alleged, and he was more thanalleged. Everyone knows that he did, in fact, bite Ted Oliver on the nose.This was an LTP road taping we recorded on Vinny's country estate in West Sussex in an outbuilding,
02:24a kind of party barn which may be familiar to you if you've seen Vinnie Jones in the country,Vinny's reality series. A quick warning, this conversation contains strong language, adult themes,a lot of descriptions of physical mayhem including nose,biting and discussion of suicide. All that and much, much more coming up.This episode is brought to you by Apple TV. We all love a suspenseful TV show about truecrime or serial killers, don't we? Well, Nocturn, the newest crime drama series on Apple TV,is a really, really good one. When a victim of notorious serial killer Eurek Walterunexpectedly turns up alive, Detective Jonah Lynn has to race against time to find the one person
03:16still missing, while his protégé Saga Bauer goes undercover to get answers from the killer himself.Yerick Walter has been locked in the basement of a Riverside Psychiatrist Hospital under six feet of concrete.But people are disappearing again, just like before.Nocturns star of Stephen Graham, Liev Schreiber and Zazi Beetz, and it's based on theinternational best-selling book series by Lars Kepler.Miss Nocturn, a new crime drama series streaming 30th of October on Apple TV.Subscription required.We're here because we have reason to believe there are more victims.
04:01No, we're here because I brought you here.You're only the third footballer I've had on a podcast, and one was Gary Linneka, with whom you have some previous.Yeah, yeah.In a way, you epitomized the two polarities of the game.Would you say?Well, he was good and I was crap.Are you trying to be polite, Louis?I didn't mean that.
04:36I meant really that he was never booked, and you were booked, well, you were sent off 12 times.But also that he...One of them was overturned, Louis.Was it?Yeah.One of them, yeah, so it was only officially 11.How do they overturned it?Because there was a big bundle on everything else, and two of us got sent off.
04:55And then the kit man, Sid came in, and he said, oh, he's made a mistake.I went, oh, I know he's made a mistake.So I went to go, no, not you.He said, Forney, so Andy Forne went back on.And then, anyway, in the tribunal, it got overturnedbecause they couldn't say who actually done the upper cut on Stan Collimore.We see, we're laughing, and that's, I mean, I have to be careful,because sometimes it's serious, right?
05:20I mean, sometimes it's part of the game.It's a fine line between...Not for me anymore, Louis.Not for me anymore.It was at the time.I look back on it all now.And I do think in life, we were young men.We had a lot of testosterone
05:32You knowA lot of beerYeahYou knowA lot of it wasJust that packMentalityEspecially at Wimbled
05:41I mean that'sThat's where I sort of startedUnder BassetAnd it wasIf you didn't look afterThe bloke next yearHe ain't gonna look after youYou know
05:49And it was very much againstThe establishment we wereYou knowAnd we knewThat if we got relegatedThat'd be the end of us allwe'd all end up back on the building site or whatever.So that's why we were so, I think, so furious when we went out on the pitch,
06:07not to lose a game.People didn't realize what was at stake.We did.So for people who don't know, we've got a general interest audience.Some of them may not know, may not remember, many will.It was Wimbledon.They'd come up from almost nowhere, from the lowest echelons of the game,to what was then called the first division, now called the Prem.
06:27Yeah.And you'd come from scrapping.And, you know, the sense of belonging, the tribalism of what became known as the crazy gang at Wimbledon, you weren't coming up through the academies.I started off coming up through the ranks at Watford as a schoolboy.So, you know, my first adulation was the headmaster saying, you know,Vinnie Jones has signed for Watford at 12 years old, schoolboy forms.You know, stand up in front of the whole school.That was my first ever sort of pat on the back kind of thing.
06:58And then, um, that...And then what's something happened?You went, you went a little bit wayward.Would you say?The divorce.Yeah, you've talked about it.Yeah.Why was that so painful?
07:08Because a divorce...Because we had such a great childhood.Right.A great child.We lived, you know, on the outskirts of, um, of Watford.Place called Newhouse Crescent, which is a council estate.And then my dad was a small builder.Um, you know, and we would have a laborer, a carpenter and a bricklayer on full time.
07:25And then we would subbe all the rest of the work.I went to work with them at 12, 13 years old.I didn't have many summer holidays, you know.Mine was, you know, getting the lorry at half-seven in the morning and go to work.Did your mum work?Mum worked, yeah.There was a hospital.One side of the road was for mentally ill patients who lived in.
07:45And the other side was a hospital in Levesdon,which was kind of the overflow from Watford Hospital.But, yeah, she worked.The way to explain my life at that time was a nice sort of,of Kez, you know the book Kears with the young lad.That's kind of what I was.Barry Hines, also adapted into a Ken Loach film.That was kind of what I had, ponds, streams, woods, climbing trees, fishing, shooting, ferreting.
08:12Right.Down the canal.I mean, back in the day, you know, we were 10, 11, 12.We'd walk five miles on the canal at night, night fishing and all that.It was a different world then.And, yeah, growing up, listen, all I knew was football, of course.because as much as people say the trouble and the bookings and everything else,that's what I remember.
08:33I was a good footballer, you know, I've got the,I have got the medals and everything to prove it growing up,you know, man of the match here, there and everywhere and everything else.And I sort of changed my style of play kind of after the divorce.And then I gave up for about three years.I was rebelling.I was a young man.Talk about, but in the book, the divorce, it's quite vivid,
08:50and it comes up a lot in your memoir and then interviews you've done.It was particularly painful.Can you talk about, are you right, because it's quite a specific incident where a woman comes to the house that seems to catalyze the beginning of the end?Yeah, it comes to the house and knocks on the door and says, I had an affair, I want to clear my conscience and it's up to you.She had an affair with your dad's, 10 years earlier, right?10 years ago it was, yeah.And she was getting married and she wanted to sort of clear the ledger and some.Clear her slate.
09:24Well, that was the bombshell.And then the arguments, and they, you know, they didn't get on then.And it was the constant arguing and, you know, it late into the night.So they separate that the house, the marital home is sold,that we were sort of growing up in this lovely life.And we end up in a little semi-detached over in St. Albans with my dad.And then I just had a big row with my dad.He was working.
09:50He was having a bit of a breakdown over it all and everything else.And me and him just had a blow up.and then I got to smack round the head and off I went.Talk about that.He punched you.Well, I was being, he gave me a right hand.Yeah, he gave me a slap and.What was the situation?
10:07Me being gobby.You know, me being rebellious.I think I was very angry with him.And then what happened was at that timebecause I was working for himbecause the school said that I was a bit disruptiveand they would give me a year's work experience.Rather than expel me, they would give me a year's work experience.
10:27And I think I only done about 11 days out of the six months or something stupid.So they said, look, and I had a big fight.Some lad come and face me up at the tuck shop.I ended up down in Bradfield College.I got a job down there in the kitchens.And the job was washing pots and pans.So you'd live above the kitchens in a little bed sit.And so I'd go down about,
10:53half six, and the boys used to come through, we'd get all the breakfast ready, and I wasin all the pots and pans, so the chef used to come in and throw them in. I had two greatbig sinks. One was to clean it all and everything else, and the other one was like a hot oneto, like, dip it all and sterilise it. And you were living on the grounds of the school?Yeah, so you lived above the kitchens. So I'd go up into kind of the attic, all the kitchens.All the kitchens. All like 15, 16 at this point?Yeah. I mean, that's probably the scariest, loneliest time of my life.really.
11:24Playing football?No, I gave up for, so three years.I don't know, I just thought it would hurt me dad.You know, I went and got a tattoo, I shaved my head.What tattoo did you get?A sailor's swallow with mum on the bottom of it.Is that making you laugh?Why?
11:42Because, and I thought it was right, Giza.And as I grew up and got older, the bloody tattoo was going around my arm.So, so then I thought, well, I'm going to have to have some.then I put a rose around it to sort of level it upand then I got a bit more and a bit moreand then I had me back done so yeah they're quiteaddicted. Do you still get tattoos?No, I'm done. I've had a whole back piece.
12:04What's the back piece?Winston Churchill.Is it?Yeah, yeah.The wartime leader.Yeah.Why Churchill?I think he epitomises British people.
12:18Look, I'm quite a, well, I'm a massive royalist, you know,I support the Royalist.massively.Should have got King Charles then, shouldn't you?No, you see, I think he went against the grain.Chuckie?I think he went against the grain.I think they moved the goalpost for him with Camilla, you know?
12:38And I'm a William and Kate supporter now.Really?I think they've done it right.It's traditions.I'm a right traditionalist.I love tradition.You think they should have barred him from taking the thronebecause he married a divorcee?
12:52Really?But they moved the goalposts.didn't they? They moved the rules.They changed the rules.Well, times change, rules change.And I am a big example of that, Louis.And I'm not going to knock the rulesbecause I've knocked them all my life.
13:05But to be fair, I was hopingthat he would have done the right thingand said, thank you very much.We're going to step asideand William Cate are going to be the king and queen.That to me was my Britain.Why are you laughing?I don't know.
13:21That's funny.That's you're more royalist than the royal family.Yeah, I am.Probably. My boy was in the army. He went in.Really? Served the queen. The queen was his boss.The queen was his boss, funny enough. That's what he used to say, which was hilarious, really.But yeah, a big royalist, big British person, yeah.You tried to sign up when the Falklands happened.
13:41Yeah, it was the kind of thing we were going through at the time.But your mate was turned down and you were supposed to go in together.Yeah, he's in blessing. Why did they turn him down?He'd have a bit of previous, though. A little bit of previous in Watford.Not bad stuff, a bit of fighting that.And I ended up at his place and the Falklands War started.And I had nothing else.And I thought that would be it.
14:03You know, I think I was looking for a family.I was looking for a unit.I was looking for a tribe, whatever, you know, belonging.People around me, you know, being a leader, you know.And a mission, you know, a cause to fight for?Cause.But yeah, I mean, the main reason I think it was the belonging.You know, it was like,
14:24How can I change this?I was in a downward spiral.I had nowhere to live.I had no money.That time in my life was when I was couch surfing.That's when I left home.And I was couch surfing around Watford at that timewith me black bin liner.
14:44And that's all I had to me name, really.A bag of medals.You were homeless.Yeah, well and truly.But I didn't do bad on it.I weren't sleeping in the street.No, you weren't out in the road.Do you know what I mean?
14:56I had people to go to.Did you always like to find...Always overstayed my welcome, though,because I always ended up bringing trouble around.How do you mean?It would find me.Somehow it would find me,although some people think I found it.
15:10But I think at that time, you know,I had them two or three yearswhere I was running aroundand the authority had lifted off my shoulders,if you know what I mean?And most of it, I was numband can't really tell you how I feltbecause you're just surviving,
15:28and I just survived at that time, you know.And the only really thing that I was good at was football,and I turned on that as well.How crazy is that?It was self-harming.That's what it was.It was self-harming.I had three years of self-harming.
15:44Did you like to fight,and what was the fighting doing for you?Because you talk about it quite lightly in your book.Like, it was a bit of fun.Weekends, we'd go to the pub.was usually a scrap, you know, and we, you know what I mean? It was almost like this was a hobby.You know, it was kind of like you'd go out and there'd be a few people from somewhere else andyou'd be in a bar, what are you looking at? What you'd, so in your view, it was, it was kind of
16:07natural, nothing too horrific. You weren't bottling and glassing each other.No one. Until later in my life, when I took a few glasses and bottles to me had, no, but Ididn't have that in me. In them old days, it was a bit of a fight and a bit of, um,holding back and a bit of a bit of a punch up there was no knives and stuff like that i did have one guycome at me with a with a pint glass when i was quite young which was quite scary like whoothis is all changing you know what i mean it's not as fun anymore what did you know the oldsaying years ago you know i'll go out for a fight and a curry do you know what i mean after afteryou have a beer on a friday night it's kind of yeah i remember that saying
16:49that's what did you say what did you do friday nights that's what we always do that's what we alwaysalways used to say, wasn't it? Go up for a fight in a curry. We would say stay in for aspliff and a video probably. See, I thought you was a fucking weirdo. Spliffs, why would you fogyour brain up on that shit? Steady on. I'm very anti-drugs. I agree. Fair enough, yeah, fairenough. Did you share it with the next gaza? Yeah. All wet and all gooey? Yeah. They call thatBogarting. Oh! Oh! Don't they? Odd, weirdos. Somebody else isSaliva.Some male saliva.
17:31Male.Or female.Didn't matter.Really?Unless you've fancied that, but you never know.But you were doing the...So there's five of you doing this little spliff.So you've all gone round and you're all...
17:46Oh, that ain't for me.That's like...Are you still a bit OCD?Oh, massively, yeah.You can kiss your significant other?Yeah, blondie.Blondie.Yeah, of course, yeah.
17:56There's saliva involved there, I'm guessing.You'd have to ask her that one.I wouldn't kiss a dog.I'm old school.I'm old school.Louis.The Crazy Gang Monica was invented in the press, I think.And there was a phrase after the famous FA Cup 1988,
18:12probably your highest footballing professional,not ebb, highest tide, was...There's not much that can beat that.Beating Liverpool.So Dave Bassett obviously encouraged...He'd gone by then.But earlier, he'd encouraged...a kind of boys will be boys attitude.
18:28This is all part of bonding in the trenches spirit.John Faschano, your friend and teammate at Wimbledon said,I told Jonesy, when you arrived presumably,we're hooligans, thugs.If the ball wasn't there, you kicked whatever's there.This is what your job is, the Hatchet Man.No, what happened with me in Fash is a good story, actually,because I'm very much against racism.
18:56And when I joined Wimbledon, Fash had just come from Millwall.And we would go to grounds and he would get hassled by the away support and everything.And I felt it was my duty to stand in front of him.Because they were white people having to go at him, you know.So me and him bonded.I've always kind of understood it.I think a lot of people look at me and go, I bet he hates gays and queers and this.and that and he hates black people and all this.
19:29I'm not on the opposite, Louis.Gay people and black people, me growing up with the underdogs,if you know what I mean,and I was there to sort of stand in the way,to stand up and say this is wrong, if you know what I mean?So, yeah, we built this massive bond between us.I think from me, being this homeless kid,floating around, couch, if it's nothing else,
19:52to find this family of the football club,And I think Fash done the same with football, you know, it bonded us.And then me and him became, you know, very tight.We should talk about, so staying with the crazy gang for a second, it became a brand.It were obviously positives and negatives.I suppose the first thing is, you know, we talked about 11 bookings at one time, not booking, 11 sendings off.The kind of stereotype became, oh, well, Vinny is a hard man and he intimidates people.The fash quote is, we won so many games because we just scared people.
20:31You've talked about tactics where you would get, you'd put a marker down as you put it.Maybe that's the wrong phrase, but you'd do a hard tackle, maybe a late tackle early on.Was that part of the...What the mentality was, was we're playing Man United away.And Bassett used to tell us, they don't give a shit that we have to feed our families.If they beat us on Saturday at Man United, they're not going to worry about it.us driving home for four or five hours on the coach and having to feed our kids on onon on on the weekend they were man united and living that dream and in them days 10 and 20
21:05grand a week we were on 100 to 200 pound a week so that was the mentality and the way wedealt with that we turned up we stood up tall we stood we put our chests out and we said we'renot frightened of the 50,000 there's 11 of you and there's 11 of usThis lot ain't going around you today.And we showed them from the minute we got off the coachto the minute we walked out in the tunnel,we ain't bothered.We're not going to shrink.
21:40The thing they underestimated was,they looked at our chest and our bicepsand our angry faces,and they forgot we could play a bit.And they forgot that when great men send people to walk,and they win it, it's strategic, and it's planned.And we'll bring the right flank in.And when they face them, we'll bring the left flank in,
22:06and we'll bring the boys in.Just like all the old wars.And that's what we've done.And we trained and trained and trained to get it right on Saturday.And that's what people underestimated.Yes, we gave the facade that we were up the pub,drunk every minute of the day,and we even went up the pub the night at a cup final.
22:28We didn't stay up there getting smashed in all the bullocks,but we gave that, that story got out.Really?Fast.Why did you put the story out there?Just.The press put the story out.Really.
22:41What does he say in snatch?He says, we were something to a pig in snatch.He says, uh, do you know what it is?Bricktop says, yeah.So anyway.Curry to a piss.It'd be like feeding curry to a piss head.carry to a piss head and that's what we did louis we fed curry to the piss heads because they were
22:59all piss heads the journalists in them days as well we fed curry to the piss heads and they fuckingtook it at line and sinker in many people's minds perhaps you're most closely associated with an iconicphoto one of the most famous footballing photos of all times and that happened just before the cupfinal it's you and paul gaza gascoyne yeah it's not just one photo it's a series in which youYou squeeze the testicles or appear to of the rising star.You did.I did.And then he makes almost comical pantomime expression.
23:32Well, I'd embarrassed him, hadn't I?So he was trying to.Maybe even hurt him.A little bit.A little bit.But there's, I mean, as everything, there is a backstory.Go on.The true story of that was the boys had played at Newcastle.
23:46I was suspended.And I was back in London.They came back on the Monday and all the lads were talking about this young lad,Gaza.and they were like, oh my God, they've got this lad in midfield.He's unbelievable.Anyway, forward wind to our home game against Newcastle.Manager Bobby Gould, me and him never got on.
24:04The only manager I never got on with.Bobby Gould called me and he said,you've got to do a job on Gascoigne, a man-to-man job.I don't want you to touch the ball.I don't want you to do anything.I want you to run after him, shadow him and stop him getting the ball.So if he's going to pass to him, get in front.front intercept.
24:23If he's got the ball, hold him up, hold him up.So we've done a couple of practice games,preparing for the game.And the reserve team player was running rings round me.That's the truth of it.And I was getting more and more angrier.And now the lads are starting to laughand taking the piss and everything else.
24:44And then I give him a boot and all that.So gaudy pulls me off, what's going on?I said, I ain't doing it.We have this great big,row. I ain't doing it. And I walk off the training pitch. Don Howe was very respected at a timewas the England coach. He comes in. We have a talk. I go home. Bullocks, I'm not doing it. Sam Hammam,the owner. This is why the club was so different. He's a legend in his own right. Yeah. Quitecontroversial character. Very controversial, but just loved the club, you know. Anyway, he rang me that
25:20night and he said,Jonesy boy.He said,he didn't sound like that.Yeah, so he talked,Johnsy boy.Sounds a bit Welsh.Well, that's the Welsh and me coming out, Louis.
25:32We'll get onto that later.But he said,yeah, he said, I want you to play Saturday.Do what Bobby says.So I'm like, okay.So we come back in on Thursday.We go out onto the pitchand Gaza,
25:47there's girls running onto the pitchwith roses.This is in the warm-upand everything.So now my insight on all this is this bloke's going to take the absolute piss out of me.I'm going to be a laughingstock here now in front of the crowd.It was a home crowd and everybody else, you know.And I was terrified I was going to be the laughingstock.
26:08So I said, right, I'm going to do this properly.And I just man to man marked him wherever he went.As the game goes on, I know I'm winning the contest.He's out of the game.We're nil, nil, we're nil, nil.He hasn't scored everywhere he wentAnd he started goving back at me, GazaBecause he now knows that I'm winning this battle
26:26And he's the one basically getting a little bitEmbarrassedSo anyway, he's starting to chatAnd give me all the old, how much you want to wakeAnd this, that and the other and thatSo I went to say to France and said, you wait there, you're fat bastardI'll be back for you in a minuteYou said that to Gaza
26:42I said that to himBecause now the adrenaline is pumpingYeahIt's off the chartsyou know we're like brothers now but at that time i said that and monte fresco the photographer in them daysused to be right on the touchline and i said to him after how did you get the picture and he said i heardyou say that to him and i put the camera on you and then all sudden he said i couldn't believe it he saidno i never really knew what i had until later on he said i just went sh shh shh he said you grabbed him by
27:13the bullocks i said yeah gazer was right in the back of me pushing me heAnd I thought, he wants me to elbow him or something.Do you know what I mean?He wanted something off the ball.I've never asked him, actually.I think he was trying to whine me to lash out or something and get sent off, you know.And it wasn't premeditated.Had you done it before?
27:33It wasn't like a regular thing that you did.No.No.No.And I've never done it since, never done it before.I cannot, for the life of me, tell you that I even thought about it a split second before.It just happened.Now, I never knew, Louis,
27:49until I went to the pub the next morning.Never knew nothing about it, played the game.Don Hell, who was the England coach at the time,one of the most respected men in British football,came up to me privately, took me in the roomand he said, that's the best man-to-man performanceI've ever seen since Tardelli in the World Cups.That was a massive compliment to me.
28:12I'm buzzing, I'm on a high, go down the pub, we have a great time.Wake up in the morning, normal thing,11, half-11, I go up our local pub.I walk into the newsagentsand he went,what's up?He went, Vinny, mate.Because he was used to seeing me on the back pages,
28:32you know what I mean?And he went, I need a back page.Now the front page, and it was on the front.And I'm sure that was one of the first football picturesthat was ever on front and back page of the newspaper.Like everyone, Sunday people, News of the World,Sunday, all of them.I went,
28:49I went into the pub, got a round of applause when I walked in the pub, I've got to say.Did you watch the World Cup final, not the final, the semi-final, England versus Argentina.Did you watch that game?Here.Because it made me think about, because the Argentines got a lot of criticism for their tactics, and they were seen as playing.I don't know if it's accurate or not.Well, I think people want...A bit dirty.
29:14But what do you think, is it part of the game or not?Do you think it's sort of like all's fair on the pitch, kind of, like...I can remember a game.played Manchester United, we went 1-0 up, and we just put everybody beyond the ball. To us,it was about the results for us. Do billions of people want to watch that in the World CupSemifinal? It's better than that, in it? It's a bit better than that, the World Cup. You want tosee flamboyant football. You want to see back hills. You want to see tricks and goals, anythingelse. You don't really want to see a team shut up shop like that. And I think that's what all the
29:52trouble was. And I think... But when England went 1-0-0 up and then they just seemed to think,oh, we've had enough now, it was odd. Do you support England? Yeah, support all the British teams.All the British. So if it was England versus Wales, is that a dilemma? Because you played,obviously, for Wales, not for England. Yeah. No, it's... I was born here and, you know,My grandfather's there, got family there and all that.So, you know, it's just a cheeky, yeah, all right.See who wins, do you know what I mean?Best man on day.
30:20Look at the fights.Look at Chris Eubanks and Ben.May the best man win.Don't hear that very often, do you, Louis?No.Used to in my day.Let the best man win, you know?And I went to every Ben Eubank fight, the old...
30:35Did you?The old...Yeah, oh yeah.Me and Fash, went all of them.Do you keep up with Chris Eubank?I saw old Chris.It was funny.I saw old Chris.
30:46I'm very good mates, very, very good pals with Stevie Collins.So anyway, me and Steve, he done a little job in Lockstock.He was the dormant in Lockstock.Where's your tickets?So anyway, I don't know what we're doing.We go into a bar, the Grove North Summink.Who's at the bar, Chris Eubanks?And Chris is from down here, Brighton.
31:05He's quite extrovert.He's quite...He's a flamboyant character.He is a very flamboyant guy.So he walked up.He turns, hello, Chris.Hello, Vinnie.And then he sees Chris and goes, hello, Chris.
31:18Hello, hello Steve and all that.And now Chris wants to tell Steve that he didn't really beat him and all the rest of it.And Steve's a lovely Irish boy down to earth as you'll ever meet.And he went, well, this can of car park now.Really?And he said, and Chris was like, wow, we don't have to be like this.And it was to be there in the fucking bar in the Grovener, the three of us.And I'm like...
31:48It was going a bit Nelson Mandela for a second.Yeah, I know.I'm not the best in...I'm not the best of that.But I'm not the...I'm just squirming because I was stood in between the two middleweight champions of the world.And I thought, could get a good eye in there.We were in the...
32:05Just to get these out of the way, should we quickly deal with Ted Oliver?Should we quickly deal with...Ted?Yeah, you can, yeah.You're in Dublin.You'd been sent by Pierce Morganbecause you decided to cover the matchfrom the hotel bar
32:17for reasons known best to yourself.It was on TV.Well, no, we booked into the hoteland it was near the ground.You know, we came downstairs.It was the biggest fucking partyou've ever seenbecause the ground was around the corner
32:28and you couldn't move.You should have got liftedinto the party atmosphere of the barand you thought, you know, I can watch the game.Yeah, and I had a couple of mates came out.Oh, we're all going, all that.We all met there.So I was a fucking animal that night.
32:41and there's no excuse for it.And the next morning on the cover of the mirroris a full picture of the mirror journalist Ted Oliver.Which was horrendous because the game...With a bloody nose saying Vinny Jones tried to bite my nose off.Yeah.Look, I'm not putting nothing on Ted. God rest his soul,but there wasn't one person that had a drink that night.
33:03Right.There was two or three other journalists who were horsing aroundand Ted was one of them.that side of the story never came outI'm quite happy for thatlet sleeping dogs liewhat did the press havethere was no story if they said
33:20two or three of the journalists were hammered as well was itwas it done in anger thoughor what was done as afuckingfucking horse playfucking teenage stupid fucking thingit's very hard to explain itwithout
33:36without me beingsincere because I take full responsibility for it.Do you see what I mean?I'm not saying, oh, it was a bit of this and it was a bit of that.Oh, it was, I don't want to sound like a, you know, some, I take the full responsibility.The, the thing about it was, was he lying around on the ground with his nose hanging offand asked to have stitches and plastic surgery?No.
34:01Did somebody say, oh, you've hurt him and you went to apologize, yes.was he with four other journalists on a balcony, drinking champagne, laughing and joking, yes.Did he have a white tankerchief pressing against his nose?Yes.But I'm the animal in it, and I take full responsibility.He wasn't rolling around on the ground, moulding his nose.But at the end of the day.Nor did any part of his nose get bitten off?
34:31No.Because Pierce Morgan in the documentary is like, oh, he bit a bit of his nose off.And I'm like, not to be like a sticler, but that is a...Well, thanks, Louis.You're a bit of a different journalist to Peers.Pears liked dramatising a lot.And then Pears let me down.Pierce can say what he wants.
34:48We've had a love eight relationship, me and Pears for many, many, many years.And I've kind of put it to bed.You know, we'll have a game of golf and that now.Me and Pierce is his own man, as we all know.And that's how he's led his life, which is fine.But peers rung me and said, look, we're going to do the right thing.I'm going to send a journalist up.This was the next day.
35:07And I'm like, fuck.I flew home that day, journalists everywhere.And I was so ashamed.And then he rang me that after and he said,I'm sending a journalist now.Take some photos and everything.Give your side of the story.And then Pierce sent the bloke round.
35:23We done a picture.He said, yeah, just give us a bit of remorse and all the rest of it.Well, fucking didn't have to act out.I was in remorse.And then that was that.Like, okay.And the next morning I woke up.and the headline was sacked right across the front page,
35:40which then catapulted it again to another atmosphere.So you feel Pierce did you dirty?Did you, I mean, do you...No, he just...No, Pears' version of it is, you know, he had to do something.Pierce's version is, that is...He was being truthful until...There was a bit of a time lapse between the journalists coming to my house
36:04and absolutely printing the next day sayingPeir said all the other editorswere ringing him said, you better hammer this bastard.Right.So peers got...Their tribal loyalties kicked in, right?They were backing Ted, weren't they?Of course they were.
36:18Yeah.And I don't blame that.And, you know, look, if it was a younger lad,10 years, 20 years younger,would it have...You know, he was an older blokethat we were all horsing around.I'd just take full responsibility for it, you know?
36:30And I just to fucking have a tick for the booze for the dog.The dog won't.that night. That's the metaphorical dog. There's a dog. Your ego. You mix your ego with alcoholas Guy says, I've got this one big fucking dog in me and I have to control him. Is it still there?I'm trying to turn the tables and be friends with him now because I don't think you can be enemiesforever. We've had a few good fights, you know, and... You and the dog? Yeah. With each other or with otherpeople.No, just me and him.
37:05And you've got to smash him in the back of the kennel every time he puts his head out.And when you, because, look, I'm in my 14th year of sobriety and he's really had a lonely life.The last 14 years.Oh, yeah.Because he's kept, he don't like it.He's right at the back of the kennel now.Oh, yeah.I don't want to be enemies with him all my life.
37:28I want to be friends.You want to integrate.It's quite young Ian in a way.It's like you've got to reconcile these architecture.types. You can't completely ignore the shadow self.Well, you can turn around and look each other in the eye and say,some of it's me and some of it's you, son.Right.
37:46And if we're going to get on, this is how it's going to be.Yeah.You've got to keep him in his kennel.But yeah, I don't think you can spend, I can't spend the rest of my life fighting him,Louis. I've got to try and talk him into some sort of truce.Truth terms, yeah.Is it worth saying that at that time you had a suicidal moment?I did it.
38:10When I knew the hit was getting home off the plane,all the press were at the house and all that,and peers saying, I'm with you, mate.You know, so like, oh, I got a bit of protection.The next day, when we got the papers and he had kind of thrown me under the bus,I went upstairs and I just curled up into the,the fetal position.And I'd just fucking given in, Louie, I'd given in.
38:41I was like, fuck.And that's not me.I'm, as I, you know, my saying is keep swinging.You know what I mean?Keep fucking swing.Keep swinging.I had none left.I never had a swing in me.
38:52And I lied there.And I was like, fuck this.And I just smoked the hamlet cigars at the time.And I, and I said to Tanya, I went, ah, fuck this.So I said to Tanya, can you go down and get me some cigars?I got my gun and went up to the woods and I, you know, I think I was more trying to talkmyself into it more than I'd decided.So I'm sort of sitting there in the, up the word, because I was so embarrassed now.
39:25You know, the shame and everything that I'd brought on everybody and the family and everythingelse, do you know what I mean?Because it comes with, it don't just come with you.The police and all that didn't bother me and the consequences of, you know, when I've been in troublewith the police. It was always going home.You know, like then it was, you know, with ten and all that.Now it's with Emma, you know, to, you know,to face that, letting them down.
39:45It was that, it was the,and I can't keep doing it to people and I can't, you know,it's out, the dog's out of control.Spiled out of control.And every time I did sort of get him in control,after a big incident,it would only last six weeks.He'd go and hide in the kennel for six weeks.
40:04And he can have a drink now, he can this.So yeah, it was the shame of it, Louis, more than anything, you know.And then the dog, my little dog came over, like mine do now,and jumped up on me and this, that, now.And it's kind of what I say now, the difference now.What's the difference between coming off the wagonand having a lovely cold beer now and not?Well, the lemon and lime next to it.
40:27It's the choice you make.And I went, no, fuck this, I will start swinging.But all through my drinking days, as I say,I call it this, the dog would go back there, laugh his head off.And then he'd wait his moment.Now he'd come, like the fight in South Dakota.Now would, why haven't had a fight since I've been sober?I see it coming a mile off.
40:49I see the geyser that wants to have a pop.And I can just go, see you'll later.Did you say the fight in South Dakota?What was that?I had a bar fight in South Dakota.I didn't know about that.With three or four lads and I had 68 stitches in my face.and head and had plastic surgery, didn't know nothing about it.
41:10When was that?2000-something.I don't remember much more than 2000.In the Hollywood years.Yeah, I'd gone out there and we were, we was with the lads and we'd had a game ofcars and they said, oh, we're going, watch this band and all the rest of it.And the next thing, I woke up like, what's going on here?And I went to get up and there was all trains on me.
41:33I'd been handcuffed to the bed.And I went to get up and there was a copper there like that.And I went, ooh, it's don't look good.And the nurse come over and she said,so, okay, you've been in a bar fight.You've had so-and-so plastic surgery and all.They stitched all the rest of it.And they brought me eye socket and all the rest of it.
41:51I was like, okay.And said, the sheriff is here to escort you.And I thought, escort me home or something like that.He escorted me straight to the police station and booked me.You don't really remember what the fight was about?I went up on the pool table and tried that.Yeah, I missed that and the other.Yeah, I'll have a game of pool.
42:08probably one of the lads said you wouldn't fucking else stay away from them.It was probably that, you know, and the dog saying,you can have a game of pool.They're not going to bother you, are they?Go on go and put your money down.And then it was this, that.All I remember was, I looked like that.And as I looked like that,
42:23big pint jug like that, he just didn't me full on this gear.He's a gosh.And then...With a glass?Yeah, one of them big Hofmeister pint glasses.In your face, really?And I went down and I always remember the girl saying,And no, not the knife.
42:40So I fucking rolled back up and sort of went in.And then I went into a corridor.And it's on CCTV.I went in the corridor.And there was this big Mexican lad that was with him.He'd gone into the corridor and he stood there with his glass.And I just fucked out.And I didn't know at the time.
42:56You can see it on the grainy.All my nose here was down here.And all my ear was down there.It was some right.And it was snowing outside.Anyway, I then attacked him in the...I went for him in the corridor because it...With your nose dangling off.
43:10And then you see the outside of it, and I come out,and I got a great big load of snow like that,and I just held it on my face,and you just see me go, bang, and that's all I remember.Did you get a conviction off it?I got a not guilty on all four counts from a jury,which again changed my life,because I'd have been out of America or everything else.
43:30So that was it.That's how it all worked out.Yeah.This episode is brought to you byExperian, the UK's most trusted credit score. Throughout my career, I've interviewed people from allwalks of life, from everyday folk to Hollywood stars, and each one of them has their own uniquestory and goals, just like you and me. And that's no different to our financial stories,and with the expenses of summer behind us, now is the perfect time to take stock of your story
44:14by checking your Experian credit score. I know it's something that's easy to put off, but just in a fewminutes you could better understand your score, learn how to improve it and feel confident for yournext financial move. That means you can start getting set and feeling confident for what's next,be it a new car, a new home, or maybe a copy of got to get through this. That's my memoiravailable at all good bookshops. Download the free Experian app and Better Your Storytoday. For most trusted, visitexperian.com.com.uk slash claims.We should talk Hollywood.I mean, just for people to understand how you go from...
45:06I mean, I remember...Been through a lot, on I, Louis?Yes, a lot.There's a lot of fighting.You should reflect the fact that you're also a professional actor of some distinction.And not a bad footballer.And at the time...No, there was...
45:18These are massively publicised incidents.What you can't take away from is I played six or seven hundred league games.Yeah.At the top level.Did you watch them highlights?Yes, I did.done, man. Well done. Well done.You become, you get head hunted. How is it? Like Guy Ritchie, then an unknown director.
45:39No, he wasn't a director, really. He messed around.Aspiring director wants to make his first feature, which becomes locked stock and two smokingbarrels, a huge hit out of the gate. Here's the quote,film is like football. You join a team, get close to one or two people, then never hear fromthem again.That's life, isn't it?I don't get emotionally involved.Do one.
46:02Move on.But you actually have created a family and you do get involved.I join a lot of families though, Louis.You're still in the family of Guy Ritchie, Matthew Vaughn, his producer and now a director.And all of that.They stayed loyal to me.Yeah.You've stayed very loyal to me.
46:18Is loyalty important to you?It's part of the British flag, isn't it?Go on.Well, that's what we were based on.I was Churchill.If you have them fundamental, I don't think you can go far wrong.Look, I've had people be loyal to me when I'm absolutely totally in the wrong.That's when you need an arm round you.
46:38Beyond the wall, you fucking idiot.It's not when things are going well.Yes, there's all these families, and there's all these families on a film set,the actors, the actors, the this, that and the other.There's not a lot of loyalty there.They're all out for loyalty for their own.backs and their own families.So that's why I think, you know, you kind of sway through life, the ups and downs.
47:08All of a sudden you come over a boat in the middle of the ocean and you save someoneor you do something and that imprints on your life.And then, yeah, you become Guy Ritchie or Matthew Vaughn or Jason Stavam lived with me,imprinted my life.So there you stay.And then along that lifeline, they will be loyal to you somewhere or not.Or not.And if they're not, they're not still here.
47:32How long were you in Hollywood?About 17 years, I think.15, 16.And I'm telling you, I don't care what people say.It's fucking hard out there, Louie.You've been there.You know what it's like.And a friend of mine said to me, he said,
47:48Hollywood ain't a theatre of dreams.It's a theatre of shattered dreams.And that's what I've got.The only reason I survived, two reasons.It's a great place when you've got a bit of moneyand you don't rely on the systemand it's a great place where you've got familyfor me.
48:07Otherwise, it's a groin.It's a lonely place.I mean, you can go to the Premier of Snatchand you are on this massive pedestaland you've got people like Tarantinoand John Travolta and Anthony and Johnnyand they're all going, oh, brilliant.And you know, you're at the altar,
48:24and it's weird, this, that and the other.You wake up the next dayand you go down to the state.Starbucks, and it starts again there, mate.That's over.They've moved on.And if you get stuck in that, you come home with your tail between your legs.And I learned very quickly how brutal it is out there and our ruthless.
48:44Very lonely.Very lonely.Did you have your tribe?Was there like a, is there an expat community?Who was in your tribe?Well, when I gave Joe Pesci.Really?Andy Garcia.
48:56Tom Welling, who was Superman.The Smallsville.Is Pesci a good guy?Yeah, he's very old now, Joe.You don't see him as, you know, am I a clown to you?This is funny to you.I've got the words, I haven't really got the voice.Same as me.
49:11We're not good on.I'm doing Pesci.We're not.No, don't do that.He hates it.Really?If you do that line.No, if you try and do Pesci.
49:18Really?You try and do Pesci.I've seen, oh.My cousin Vinny?O'F, I've seen him go off at a few people at the golf club.For what reason?You know the most surreal moment?People go up to him saying like,
49:27well, are this is, am I funny to you?Does this amuse you?You are very, very.Does this amuse you?That's what he says, isn't it?I swear to God, if he sees this,he'll go, oh, your friend thinks he's very funny, does he?Fucking hell.
49:41I swear to God he will.I fucking swear to God.He's pretty old, you said, though.You're lucky.No, but I'll tell you what.If he sees this, I swear on my grandchildren's lives,he will have a dig back at you at me at the club.Oh, I don't want to make trouble for you.
49:58You're making it for yourself, son, because I'm nothing to do with this.I'm just warning you.I'm going to get it in the neck, but you're going to get it when he sees you.No, he takes it very personal, Joe.Oh.Yeah.So you've done lockstock and had success with it.It goes on to be your founding, you know, your first step on a road to a successful film career.
50:17At the time, I think it might even have seemed laughable to a lot of people.What, Billy Jones, the soccer hard man.Well, that's what I never said anything.And I actually went to Guy and Matthew afterwards,and I said,before it come out,I said,listen,
50:29boys,if in any waymy part in this movieis going to embarrass youor bring the movie down,please edit me out,I'll carry on with me football,and I won't be offended,
50:45and we'll still be mates and everything else.And they went,Vin, we've done all the tests.They fucking love you, mate.I was like, really?Did you think you might be shit?Yeah, I was worriedThat the football
50:58JournalismWould be the same as film, TV,whatever journalismUntil you've been on the wrath of itWhich, you haven't that muchA little bit, you've had one or two little squirmsBut I've been behind itI've got more notes than you, Louis.
51:18No worry, sonMore notes about you than you have on me, mateAnd that's always the thing to bear in mind.If you're going to bring a, don't bring a knife to a gunfight, Louie, okay?And so, so yeah, it was me saying, I don't want to fuck this up for these lads.This is their big break.But they said, no, you're in.You're with us.
51:41And the truth of it was, my first day on set, I was in jail.And I didn't get out of Nick until about four o'clock that day.But the boys stayed with me, Guy and Matthew, said, don't worry, we'll shoot it.another time, another day.So I sort of come out of that thinking,well, that's fucking gone.But at the time, I just thought it was a cameo.It was a cameo role.
52:02Originally.Originally, I'd done three scenes.I went in, after training, didn't tell nobody.And then I was saying to the guy, I said,guy, this, I don't get big Chris.You're making out he's this big tough guyand he's a heavy and everything.He hasn't done anything.
52:24And he goes, no.He said, but when his boy gets challenged in the car, that's when you see Big Chris come to life.And we don't want to give it away too early.So this was my big scene, the other three little scenes.So anyway, we done this scene one day, and they put the block of wood in there.And I had a son at the time, Aaron.And he said, when you turn around, he's got that knife to his throat, he's got that knife to Aaron's throat.And I want you to take it out on that fucking door and that lump of wood.
52:57So that's what it was.And I absolutely, I did.It was like, I don't know, method or whatever you call it, method acting.It just overtook me.It was like running across the white line at three o'clock.It was a fucking adrenaline rush.And we finished doing it.And I was knack at night.
53:21And I went up against the car like thatAnd the whole crew were likestaring at meLike dead quietAnd then all sudden Guy streaks outFucking hellAnd he'd come runningGive me this cuddle
53:35And he went that's itAnd now all the crew come running over itYou know it's like just one fucking FA cupAnd I went fucking hellAnyway that was thatAnd the sound man who's won an OscarPurpley Simon A'sWe heard this little thing
53:50Guycan I have another onethere was an aeroplaneso we fucking beat the shit out of himwe had a bundle and had a good laughso I did another take but he used the first takeand that's what broughtChris big Chris to life
54:05and then we went to the PremierYou were able to tap into rage quite easilyI did yeah I didbut he gave me the reasonyou know he said if that nicethat helped Aaron's throat you knowand then yeah and thenLook, we then went to the premiere and done a screening and people liked it.
54:26And then I never forget, I came out and Dustin Offman, grabbed my arm in front of the press like that, just nowhere.Went like that.And grabbed my arm and went, this kid's going to be a big star.You mark my words.And I look over there and I'm like, you know, you're like a rabbit in the headlights.Oh, this that.And you go, well, I've got to go training in the morning.I was at Wimbledon by this time.
54:49When I done the film and I've gone back to Wimbledon, I weren't.QPR, I was at Wimbledon.So I got to go train in the morning.I looked around like that, and my old man was there.I never forget it, and the tears were pouring down his face.I never forget that, yeah.Me, Guy and Matthew Vaughan, when it came out then in the cinema,as we were doing all the cinema, I was running around, going in.
55:08And I went in, we'd creep in the back, and there was a few people watching it,to start with.I never get, there was this big fella, he was right at the back, and it was like two seats there,and we come round in, and he had his feet up on the chair.and he was goingOh, ah, ah, ah, ah, right?So I crept up to him like thatbecause the guy's like, come on, we got to go.
55:31We just wanted to see how many people are in the cinema.And I went, oh, he's pretty good, in he?And he looked like that, and he went, fucking hell.And he's done that.And as he done that, I legged it.And he's never, if he's watching this, that bloke,he'll remember it.But I never saw the bloke after.
55:47But yeah, that was, that was, that's how we done it then.other time, when Snatch came out, me and Stavam was in L.A.And Guy rang me out, he said, go up, you know, up by Coenga and Sunset,the little Star 5 cinema there.He said, go down and see if anyone's there.It's opening day.So we've hit sunset, nothing, nothing, no one about.Fucking out, fucking out.
56:10Parked up, walked down, walked down the corner.Hundreds and hundreds of people queuing up, like, for the football,going into the cinema.And I remember ringing him and screaming.saying, we've done it, we've done it.I knew my life had changed then.Yeah.Did you make most of your money after football?
56:29Yeah.In Hollywood.Just on movies.But I will say I was spending it as quick as I was earning it.So I was the hamster on the wheel.People say 120, 130 movies.I had to fucking pay bills.How much does someone get paid for a movie like that?
56:47I don't want to be overly.What movie?It doesn't really matter.Like a big Hollywood film where,It all depends where you are in a pecking order.If you're, you know, if you're 15-20 mil, you're one of the leads or the lead,you're the one who are putting bums on seats.And then it just drifts right the way down.
57:02You know, you could be on a big franchise at 100 grand for the movie.You've got the prestige of being in it and is it going to help your career and this and the other.Who knows?This is the thing, Lou.Manager, 10%.Agent, 10%.Lawyer, 5%.business manager 5% there's 30 tax man
57:23I think this is why so many actors get into troubleyou go and do something let's say for 300 grandfucking out won the lotteryyou got 300 grand for that fucking hell you saidbut when you got fucking flash cars and housesand I had five hours at one pointand fucking bentley's and rolls roarsesand fucking BMWs and they all need paying for
57:44you can't keep going you know the bags get heavyand the will gets faster.You know what I mean?So there ain't no real rhyme or reason what you get.The more, I swear to God,I turned down $2 million last year for I'm a celebrity.Because, yeah.Two million.
58:05And whereas before, fucking, no way,I'd have jumped at it.I'd have jumped at it, yeah.I did Big Brother for a million dollars,but I needed it.I had a tax bill.Wow.So we've done that. After everyone carved it up, I actually did it for nothing.
58:21Taxman this, you owe that.Really?I ended up with zero.Did you? We should talk about the gentleman.You've done a ton of films, right, and TV.120 odd movies.You did one of her research. I watched one called Year One.Do you remember that one?
58:40Jack Black.Michael Serra.Michael Serra. He was big noise then.It also has some good jams with him.Him and Jack Black and Sarah used to play the guitar.Did they?Yeah.Jack Black was a musician almost first in a group called Tenacious D, a comedy rock group, yeah.
58:59Travolta.Wonderful man.Did he talk to you about Scientology?No.He didn't.I'll tell you what he did.He came.So the first day on set, we'd done something the day before, and Hugh Jackman,
59:13we got on very well, really well, me and Hugh,and we were stood there waiting,and he was about five or ten minutes late,and he came on, you know, the entourage,I mean, we was already on set like this,and you could kind of hear,and everybody tensed up and like,oh, here he is,
59:32and he came on and he swung on,and the director went over to him and all that,and he went, whoa, whoa, whoa, hold him.He said, first and foremost, everybody,I want to thank all of you for being hereand doing my movie with me.And everyone went, and I thought, you classy bastard.I did.
59:51And the other thing I thought about it was at the end.He gave us all, well, the actors, the main actors,he gave us a Montblanc pen with thanks, Swordfish, JT.And whenever I was a lead in a movie,I always used to buy the crew and cast a present from the lead actor then.So I got, I nick that idea from him.Swordfish was the movie.Yeah, it was the movie, yeah.
01:00:14Brad Pitt.Fantastic, yeah, became a good mate of Brad.He's good in it, isn't he?He's good.He went to my friends in Watford, the Frankums, to learn it.He asked to go for a day.And Matthew Vaughn phoned for me, he said,you know the travellers, didn't you?
01:00:28I said, yeah.And he said, Brad wants to go for a day to a real traveller's site,you know, do a bit of research.Yeah.And so I said, I phoned Bobby Franke,Anyway, he said it all up.They're in Watford.And I was playing in some celebrity golf thing that day.
01:00:50So I said, go down there, have an hour or two, this, that and that.So they all took him down there and this, that.And I'd finish golf, and I'd run Matthew.Must have been at 3 or 4 o'clock.How did it go and everything else?He said he's still here.He's now having dinner in one of the fucking trailers.You know, it's kind of moments like this where you could bottle it and say,
01:01:09oh, Louie, look at that.And I've had many, many, many, many of those instances in my life, you know,that you just go, I'm just this fucking lad from what for how has this happened?You know?So although there are the Ted Oliver stories that you can be ashamed of,there are other stories that I'm very proud of and what I've achieved,you know what I mean?It's not all doom and gloom, you know, and the sobriety as well, you know,
01:01:33and that was the defining moment when a bloke said to me,drinking is a young man's sport.Yeah.That was, yeah,curry to a pised, that was,I was done.It was after you got sober,you heard that?
01:01:49Yeah, yeah, at the gold club.That cemented it for me.Yeah.Do you agree?You're not a big drinker.You're a wine drinker.I have been a big drinker.I mean, you know, they say,
01:02:00what is it?14 units a week.I'd sometimes think,14 units sounds like a nice evening.You know what I mean?It's a warm up.That's a warm up.A warm up.
01:02:09Because I drank socially.I never drank all food a day.Yeah.You were like, if you said, you're a party alcoholic.We drunk to cause a bit of bullocks.Yeah.Did you have a drink of choice?I didn't like the beer too much because you get all bloated.
01:02:24So I was on the red wine, but then I'd done about, I can pigeonhole them nowbecause red wine I'd done about 280 hours community service.So then I thought, no, that's not good.So I went on to the white wine.White wine, I think I've got 400 hours.community service. So then I decided to go on tochampagne. And then the balloon wentup. I can't keep count of how many hours of community service on
01:02:47champagne, Lauren Perry-A-Rose. So,yeah, that was the end of it.Really? Yeah, I weren't the beer drinker.And never shorts.Well, I was going to say, you did well. No shorts, no drugs, no beer.You did well to avoid the spirits.I stopped drinking more or less about a month ago.Did you? For what reason?
01:03:05It's a long story, which, but basically,I was going through something and, um,I thought I need clarity.And then I just...But isn't it strange that we think we have to be sober to get real clarity?So when I was partying, you know, it would take me...So I'd have a drink, say Friday or Saturday, Sunday afternoon, Sunday at the pub was great.It would take me Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday to kind of sober up and then it's back on it on a Friday.
01:03:31You know, that's kind of how I lived my life.And as you say, it was cloudy.There was no clarity.So in it strange that even a man of your intelligence...can turn around and say, I had to give up drinking to get some clarity.It just shows how fucking powerful it is.It is.Do you know what I mean?
01:03:48When I actually made my mind up, I decided to go to an AA meeting.I never, I went in there.I never sat there and put my arm up.I just sat there and observed and listened and listened and listened.And this one guy came out, we went outside and I was, you know,you have a cigarette into the bucket and that.I had a little cigar and all that.there. I know you are. So I said,
01:04:12oh, how are you? And he said, you know,if you want someone, I'm here and this, that and the other.But, and he's, and I haven'thad a sponsor, but he's kind of beena guy that I couldever ring if I was like,you know, like, well, but Ikind of haven't had that wobbly. Even when
01:04:28Tanya died, I didn't have that wobbling.It spurred me on even morethinking, everyone going, ah, he'll usethat as the excuse.It'll be back on it. Do you know what I mean?To be fair, you know, thatnight at the funeral, yeah, I could have got fucking smashed. But then, you know, you'd havebeen right back to square one, wouldn't I? And I went to see a psychologist. When I actually
01:04:49made my mind up, we talked about the childhood. I said, where's this fucking anger comingfrom? Because I had no control over it. And it was like, why don't I drink? Because itbrings that fucking violence out of me. So the only way I can be in charge of it is not to drink.And it gives me a power over it.I've got to have that power over it.Do you know what I mean?But really, I had enough fucking wounds.You know what I mean?
01:05:18I had enough fucking war wounds to go,mate, one more of them bar fights,you ain't coming out of it.People say to you,life will be better.Life would be better.And it gets better and all that.And while you're counting the days,
01:05:34oh, fucking, I'm two days sober,I'm free.They're the hardest fucking days.That next weekend.The next weekend,not having a drink for me was the artist, and then the next and then that week, you know.I've been there, it does get better because you're in charge.And then you take it a step further and you go, actually, me and the dog, probably,
01:05:54and I'm going to where we started this, actually, we could be mates, you know, because I'm in charge.I'm walking in.You ain't walking me no more.So that's what I'm working on at the moment.Guy's very good at it.Me and Guy have many talks about it, and he's the one that said to me about the dog.He said, is he sober?No, he'll have a glass of wine.
01:06:16No.We should talk about Guy.I know one of the pegs for this interview is the gentleman, very much in this sort of richy, cinematic universe.That's a term I've just come up with.I'm quite happy with that.Where you've got lock, stock, snatch.It's a world where criminal gangsters consort with the upper crust, and there's a celebration of Britishness, among other things.Would you say?
01:06:36A little nail on the ear there.I think he's gone back.to kind of his roots a little bit.The biggest thing I get,are you doing snatch two?You're doing snatch two.You're doing lockstock two.That's what everybody,
01:06:47for the last 20-odd years,I know what it is, 30 years, 20 years, 30 years,keep asking me.So I think the gentleman gives them a bit of that back.I was literally 500 metres from hereand got a call out of the blue.What are you doing?And I think, he said,
01:07:06I might have something for you.Oh yeah, what's that?Talk to you later and put the phone down.So then I'm looking, what's he doing?What's he doing?Because we drifted apart through the booze.You know, he wanted me to do rock and roller.And I was doing a film with fucking Segal.
01:07:23Of all people.Stephen Seagow.I was going through that period of my life.Currently resident in Russia, I believe.Oh, he's a maniac.Lunatic, man.Is he?Oh, hilarious.
01:07:36In a good way.Yeah, I supposeHe never done me no arm, LouieHe looks quite oddAt the momentHe's a funnyWe went out to BulgariaI'd do this movie
01:07:47First time I'd met himAnd I'd, you knowAll the rest of itThere was a Buddhist monkOutside his trailer and everythingAnd he was staying at SheratonIn BulgariaAnd he asked me up
01:07:58So I went up thereAnd he had two TVs on in his roomMassive fucking sweetAnd he had lockstock on oneAnd he had snatch on the otherBoth playingCome inCome in
01:08:08This is fucking surrealSo I'm goingFuck inI'm sitting there he goesI love this manI love this manCan we get this manIn this movie of ours
01:08:22Fucking movie of oursYou're jokingSo who's this guyI love this guyNo that's Jason StavehamNo no noNo no noWho's this guy
01:08:30That's Brad PittNo no no noNo no you knowSo in the endphone my mateMouse we called him Mousethe, you know, the big fellow in statue fights him.Stay down, stay down.
01:08:39Adam Foggett, his name is.So I phoned mouse.Mouse, he's Vin.Hello, son.How are you doing, son?I said, I'm all right.I said, a bit funny one, this one.I said, I'm sitting here with Stephen Sigow.
01:08:54And he went, come on, son.Stop fucking about it.I said, no, I am.I said, you know in my bizarre world.I said, he wants to talk to you about this movie we're doing.Hello, Mouse.It's Stephen.I want you to come and do my movie.
01:09:09Anyway, two days later, they flew him out.He was in the movie.I don't know what he was doing, but...What was the movie called?I can't remember.Was it good?No, it was fucking awful.Anyway, then he was playing up
01:09:24and got his bodyguard, George, to start rewriting the script.So now the movie's going shitways.And the director is a lad called Tony Icox,who's an English lad.Seagal hates him.Now Seagal brings his team in.So the bodyguard becomes the writer, director,when he's on set,
01:09:49and his first AD, our AD goes and sits downwhile his AD walks in with himand they're holding the boards up to do the dialogue.And so we're in the trailer.We're sitting in the trailer, Hickox, the director comes in,he goes, he's fired me, he's fired me.But what do you mean he's fired you?He said he's just fired me.
01:10:07He said I couldn't direct a porno.And I went, oh my God.I said, what are we going to do?So he goes, what are we going to do?This is the director to me.I hope I can know.So I went over to him, knocked on the door.The old Buddhist monk was sitting there.
01:10:24And he was playing on the guitar.Bound, bam, bam on this fucking guitar.I went in.So come in, come in, and all this.This is my life, Louis.I'm telling you, it's fucking bizarre, mate.So I sat and I said, Stephen, we've got a problem.Oh, yeah, what's up, man?
01:10:39So I said, you've just fired the fucking director.Yeah, he couldn't direct the fucking point.I said, well, listen, where I come from, British man, it's one out, all out.And you're going to have a lot of trouble doing this movie on your own, Stephen.Now is it going to be?And the reason I did it, they were English.And he went, oh, you can tell him I was fucking around and all that.I said, you tell him.
01:11:04So we walk across.He's got the fucking robe on and all the rest of it.Are they all following?The entourage, the monk and all that's them.They're in my trailer.Give me a hug and all that.And Tony Hock's is like that.Lovely fellow, brilliant, geezer.
01:11:17I've done a couple of movies with him.And, yeah, but that was, that was my Stephen Segal moment.Wow.And he wanted me to fly back to L.A. from Bulgaria on the private planeto his seven-year-old's birthday party.and I drew the line nowI said no I don't think I'm going to do that Stevebut anyway while we're out there
01:11:36we're drinking we're having a drink and Guy rang me aboutrock and roller and I was fucking drunk and I wentno I want this and want that and guy said reallyvery calmly I went yeah yeah yeah you knowand then I didn't hear from Guy for quite a long timereally yeah I got sent to Coventryquite rightlyquite rightly so you know
01:11:59so you'd got a big big for yourboots at that point.Yeah, exactly.Missed out on a lot.And then he held out an olive branch.Maybe I was about 10 years sober.And maybe that's when he may have called me and went, okay, I'm going to give you another chance sort of thing.I don't know.
01:12:16We've never discussed that.I don't know.But he was nice enough to hand out the arm of brotherhood.Because we are brothers.And yeah.And that was a remarkable meeting.We were, funny enough, doing the first scene on the gentleman,I was a bit apprehensive and I'd gone in the trailer
01:12:40and I didn't want to go over to his trailer and all the things.So I thought, I'd be professional, do you know what I mean?Keep it professional.I hadn't seen him for a long time.It'd come up the house now and then, but it was this and boom and gone, you know,wasn't completely banished.But we were on set, first scene, first day.and it was the funeral scene in the gentleman.
01:13:03His dad's died.Theo James is the sort of one of the male leads.He's called back from military service.He's officer class aristocratic.His dad's on his deathbed and then dies.So there's this amazing opening scene.Opening scene, yeah.And we film it as the opening scene.
01:13:17First day on set.Right, guys coming on set.So we're all stood around and I'm like,I'd fucking butterflies.I was like a teenager.I'm like, man, get hell.when I'm trying to look cooland I'm trying to stand it
01:13:31you knowand anyway he comes upboom boom boomcomes walking upeveryone's this thingand he's just straight at mewalk straight upand just went bang
01:13:40fucking nowboth us in tearshold it backboomrightwhat we're doing thenbang bangand it was and every
01:13:49all the crewand everywhere was likefucking hellthat was a momentnever got mentionedwe got on with itand away we goand you know
01:13:57that was likehe was likehe was sort of sayingyou've controlled your doglong enough, well doneyou know, I haven'tspoke to him about that but I sort ofI know him well enough
01:14:09you know some things you don'tsome things don't need fucking talking about all the timeit's hard telling you thatfucking else all you want to do buttalk to people about their livesbutyeah quite fascinating reallywe've been talking for quite a while I appreciate it
01:14:24I know that we've run over a bitI want to sayit's been emotional.Do you?I don't really believe it coming from you.If we'd set that up earlier in the conversationfor those who don't know,that's Vinny's probably most famous catchphrase
01:14:42which I'm told you wrote yourself on setthat was your improv or just a line?No, Guy had...It was late at night, it's 3 o'clock in the morningand we're just going out and he said,what's that thing you say when you go?Because like if I said,Right, Louis, see you later, then it's been emotional.
01:14:57He said, what do you say, like if you walked out now?And the cameras are rolling.He went, I went, oh, and I think Jay or someone said, it's been emotional.Oh, yeah.He said, give me one of them.And as I walked away, I go, come wave the white flag, high and clear so I can see it.Da-da-da-da, go, and there is one more thing.What?
01:15:15It's been emotional.And walk out when he done one take.And that was it.Da-da-da.And it has been emotional.you said, I don't believe that,but you know, you bring your best self toeverything you do.
01:15:28If you was doing it and movie, I'd have to give you a bit of coachingbecause the audience wouldn't believe it the way you say it.Right, I'm not much of that.There is one more thing.And you have to wait and pause.What the fuck is he going to come out with?I didn't say it right.You didn't pause.
01:15:41Vinny, there is one more thing.It's been emotional.Very good.Now, that's it.Didn't you believe that?There you go.You old sound man, you.because he rolled his eyes on the first one.
01:15:55Be honest.He was like, fuck.He gave us loads of time.Thanks for that, Vinny.Appreciate you.And we're back.Thank you for watching.Thank you for listening.
01:16:19Check out the gentleman on Netflix.That's the peg for the interview.Also check out, if you want,submerged.Vinny's first movie with Stephen Seagall,the one he was talking about.It came out in 2005.what's it about? I'm not sure. I haven't seen it, but one reviewer called it one of the worst and least entertaining of Seagal's films.
01:16:43Some footnotes. Vinny gave me a flat cap at the end of the recording, which I wore very proudly on the way home.Millie said that I looked like an extra from Oliver, which I think is a compliment. If I was young enough to be one of Fagin's boys, wow.Check out the socials for an image of me in the cap.So you've got that to look forward to.Vinny had a full-back tattoo of Winston Churchill.Millie's wondering, what would I get a full-back tattoo of?Churchill's a solid choice.I think you may know, Millie, you might know this.
01:17:29There are people out there who've got tattoos of me.And I think I'd like to do the same.I feel like it's the least I could do in a way.way is back myself quite literally.Right?If you've been affected by the topics discussed in this episode, Spotify do have a websitefor information and resources.Visit Spotify.com slash resources.
01:17:52That's it for now.Thanks for listening and or watching.See you next week.
There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click any sentence in the transcript to leave one.