The Psychology of your 20s - 375. The psychology of friendship trios

Episode Date: January 15, 2026

Navigating friendship in your 20s is already complicated – so what happens when we add a third person into the mix? The group chat might be buzzing, there’s always someone to talk to, and belonging to a group of three can feel like a safe space. But what happens when two start getting closer, plans are made without you, or you’re constantly wondering if you’re the extra one? In today’s episode, we unpack the psychology of friendship trios - why they feel so special, when they can hurt, and how to tell the difference between a rough patch and a dynamic that’s genuinely not good for you. We explore: •        The beauty of a friendship trio•        Friendship dyads vs triads•        The role of Simmelian ties•        When imbalances start to show (alliances, jealousy and feeling like the ‘third wheel’)•        What healthy trio dynamics actually look like (and how to achieve it)•        Hot to know when it’s time to step back If you’re navigating this nuanced aspect of friendship, this episode is for you.   ORDER MY BOOK Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast For business: [e-mail]  The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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the hard way on the IHard radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. 2%. That's the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. I'm on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange modern world. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier,

more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's TWO% on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed. I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that trust your girlfriends.

Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe, on the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the Look Back at it podcast. From 1979, that was a big moment for me. 84 is big to me. I'm Sam J. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick a year, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it.

With our friends, fellow comedians, and favorite authors. Like Mark Lamont Hill on the 80s. 84 was a wild year. It was a wild year. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Listen to look back at it on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello everybody. I'm Jemma Spike and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology. Hello everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here back for another episode as we have

course, break down the psychology of our 20s. Sometimes we have these episodes where I just go, I cannot believe we have never spoken about this before. We are like 300, maybe even 400 episodes in and we have never spoken about this topic. Today we're going to talk about friendship trios. We know from like countless studies and even so many episodes that we've done just how important our friends are, not just for our mental health, but for our physical longevity even. But what kind of happens? What changes when it's not just you and another best friend? And it's not a huge friendship group either. It's like this weird middle ground. Three people. The trio. That can get, and I know we've seen examples of this, like really complicated,

not just because friendships are in themselves complicated, but because of this unique, platonic triangle dynamic. It can be a beautiful one. You know, you get to call two people your best friend. It can also get really, really messy. One person always kind of made me feel slightly left behind or distant or like the spare. There are moments of jealousy and resentment. And I guess it's really easy to see why. It's not just too. people navigating and bouncing their emotions between each other. Suddenly it's like almost a bit of a project to keep three different bonds going at once plus the entire friendship of the three of you at a whole. This is a perfect segue into a story that inspired this episode from a listener who

wrote in with an experience exactly like this looking for some advice and I asked her, can I share this story for this episode and she said yes, please. So this was her message. I need some advice on whether it's time for me to leave my toxic friendship trio. Some context. Me and my best friends have known each other since we are eight years old. We're 24 now. We all went to college together and we've obviously had our ups and downs,

but always remained thick friends throughout at all. We even dated best friends. My friends were bridesmaids at my sister's wedding. It has kind of been a fairy tale friendship situation in many respects. until last month. Last month, me and one of my friends had a small falling out after she showed up two hours late to my birthday dinner to go on a date with a guy, a second date, might I add. I expressed I was angry and then she proceeded to not talk to me for three days, but did speak to our other friend. We semi-made up, but she didn't exactly apologize and then flash forward to

last weekend. I call up the girls to see what their Saturday plans are and the friend who remained neutral, tells me that they are on a trip together with two of our other friends in New York City, and they had simply forgotten to tell me. I was devastated. We do literally everything together, and they know that going to New York was a dream of mine since even before we met. They said they made the plans in the three days me and my other friend were fighting. I hate to admit it, but I lost my call, and we haven't spoken since. I can tell I've been blocked from seeing their Instagram stories and I'm feeling so lost, angry, devastated and hurt. Please, any advice, am I in the wrong or how do I salvage this French? I think this dynamic is the perfect example of what we're

going to talk about today. And I think to give this listener a little bit of advice to begin with, like your reaction to both those situations of firstly your friend not showing up to dinner and then this trip, like, that's fair to me. The exclusion, like, honestly, at this point feels deliberate, especially since you said you'd made up in the meantime. You said you'd been talking to them in the meantime. And you were the one who was originally offended, or I guess wronged. I think it's also hard because listening to that, like your friend saying, we just forgot to tell you, how can you forget to tell someone, let alone your best friend that you're on a plane to their dream city without them when you otherwise talk like every single day? I

think your frustration is totally justified and you need to probably seriously consider what kind of apology you want, that you need, that you deserve and whether you are willing to be the one who instigates that and reaches out or who waits. And I definitely think that at the very bare minimum, you need to send like a full, kind of dear John, like, hard on your sleeve message of like, I'm really hurt. And yes, my reaction may not have been neat and tidy, but it's because, because of how deeply I feel about you guys and about our bond and our friendship and also about the situation. I do feel like, you know, you need a proper apology. And can those people give you that? We're going to talk through, we're going to talk through that in this episode. Like,

that is my most basic in, like very, very minor advice to you. But I think the concepts in the psychology we're going to discuss as we go further into this episode are probably going to answer. this question for you. Are you going to be able to move forward? What is the dynamic of the friendship so far or as it is now and is it worth salvaging? We're going to discuss what it really means to be in a friendship trio, the role of the third wheel, how people often choose a specific role in a friendship trio and how those roles evolve over time and most importantly, how to avoid and had a deal with conflict when it inevitably comes up. So without further ado, let's get into it.

Honestly, friendship trios, I think they're pretty special. And I know that probably doesn't sound honest given the story we just heard. But when we look at the pros just for a second, you know, you basically get two best friends. It works really nicely on a practical level. Like if one friend is burnt out or if one friend is busy or going through it, there's double the support, but also double the options, double like the people to hang out with. Arguably, it's more fun. There's more personality, strengths, perspectives, more things to kind of contribute to your worldview.

The in-jokes are also like arguably a lot better as well because there's more shared. And something I don't hear people talk about a lot is there's something uniquely affirming about watching your two best friends love each other the way that you love them. You know, it's one thing to know that you think somebody else is wonderful. And it's another thing to see that mirrored back by someone else you also deeply care about. So they do have the potential to be these amazing ecosystems of friendship. But I think they are sabotaged by a few basic things. I will say most of the psychological research on close friendships or close relationships that you will come across

is about diads, so pairs of people, best friends, romantic partners, you and one other. The sociologist George Simmel in the early 1900s, he was actually one of the first to say, like, hang on, what about a triad? What about a group of three? That isn't the same dynamic as a dyad plus an extra person thrown in there. The relationship behaves very different. because there are three people. And Simmel focused a lot on how the exact number of people within a relationship and a friendship just completely changes the dynamic of the relationship itself in a really unique way, like a chemical reaction. In a dyad, you know, this is the most intimate kind of relationship or friendship you can have. It's also the most fragile. You know, if one person walks away,

the relationship simply ceases to exist. You know, it is reliant on. both of you choosing to be in the friendship and to show up and to make it work, all the attention, all the conflicts, the repair, the reassurance moves directly between the two of you. So there's kind of nowhere to hide. There's no buffer. In a dyad also there is no majority. Like it's just two individuals who need to work things out as people. In a triad, however, a group of three, the group can actually survive the partial withdrawal of one member, like the relationship. between any two people is supported by the third person but can exist by itself. And this makes the entire group kind of stable and supposedly according to the research

a lot harder to break. You know, if two friends argue the third person can step in and be a mediator or if one person leaves the remaining two can continue the group. Social network researchers, particularly two researchers, Kenneth Goh and David Crackhart, they explore this with their idea of semilian ties and this is basically a close social tie that is embedded completely within a three person network we form a similian tie when two people have a strong and mutual relationship with each other and they also have a strong and mutual relationship with a third person who they have in common what comes out of that is actually four relationships not just one

when you have two people in a relationship, you have one relationship. When you have three people in a friendship, you actually have four. So you might be very close to friend A, who is friends with friend B, who then becomes your friend, your C. This creates an A, B, B, C and C a relationship, but also an A, B, C relationship. Within one small group, four relationships for three people and for one larger relationship. and that's incredibly complex. Something interesting that actually occurs in friendship trios is that every member typically takes on their own unique role. I think there are three main roles in every friendship trio.

This isn't necessarily scientific, it's just something I've noticed by talking to people in my own life and with my researcher. The first is the bridge builder. Every single friendship trio has an organizer, has the center of command. They have this one person whose kind of calendar is like the guiding force of the friendship. They start the group chats. They remember the birthdays. They buy the football tickets. They book dinner.

They tend to do a lot of like the practical maintenance that keeps these really intimate ties active and sustained. Then there is the emotional anchor. This is the person who everyone seems to turn to when things are tricky. They are very emotive. They're a deep feeler. they're an advice giver. They also often end up being the mediator, the group mediator. I've noticed that the one who manages the emotions of the group

is normally the one that's most likely to fall between the other two parties and is most likely to have to really deal with other people snarking about the other person and dealing with the other people venting about the other person in the group. they might not do a lot of the practical load, they do a lot of the emotional load. So there's upsides and downsides with each role. The third role I often see is what I call the wild card or the energy bringer. These are the people that are just essentially the chaos. Like they always have an outrageous story.

They always make the last minute plans. They always have the unhinged voice notes. they might be less practically consistent, less emotionally consistent, but they are a source of what I would say is a huge amount of the group's fun, spontaneity, maybe even entertainment. Now, of course, these roles can overlap. The organizer might also be the emotional anchor. The wild card might also be the bridge builder or the organizer. In a healthy trio, these roles are actually shared around. So there isn't one person doing all. the emotional work all the time or all the planning all the time but we tend to kind of fall into if you're in a friendship trio one of these three groups and this dynamic can explain why trios can actually feel so comforting when they are working because you know everybody is kind of playing their part

it also kind of explains why small changes can feel really impactful because you know this entire social equilibrium will start to feel imbalanced if one person is angry or frustrated and stops playing their role. You know, if the planner suddenly stops planning, things are going to fall apart. If the energy giver gives too much chaos, everybody else is going to be frustrated.

If the emotional anchor feels exhausted and doesn't feel supported themselves, they're going to stop wanting to be somebody that the other people can come to. The hardest part and the thing I think damages friendship trios the most is that dynamic when a minor like frustration emerges and it starts to impact how every single member starts to see each other. Specifically when two people start to hang out without a third. Like the story we heard at the beginning, this is like the thing that I think destroys most friendship trios. That's where the feeling of being the third.

third wheel starts to creep in. And this is like make or break. This is when I think we see them collapse. And I'm going to explain exactly why. Stick around to hear about it. We'll be right back after this short break. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world. I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong.

Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled healthier person. Listen to 2%. That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl.

You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either. We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield and in this new season of the Girlfriends Oh my God, this is the same man A group of women discover They've all dated the same prolific con artist

I felt like I got hit by a truck I thought how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care So they take matters into their own hands I said oh hell no I vowed I will be his last target He's gonna get what he deserves Listen to the Girlfriends

Trust me babe on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you remember when Diana Ross double-tap Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jay.

And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont, waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, not just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so you all know. I mean, at this point, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line.

We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history. Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way with me, your host, and your favorite therapist,

Keer Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tripp Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing and we're still chasing it and we don't know when we've done enough.

Because people scoreboard watch. Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hardway. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Learn the Hardway, and listen now. Third wheel, the term third wheel. It's honestly such a brutal phrase, but it captures a feeling I think most people recognize. It is this sense of being there, but not actually feeling wanted, not feeling needed in a situation.

Like the third wheel of a bike, like we all know the. bike can function just with two. The third wheel knows the bike, doesn't need it. What we're really describing though is social ostracism, that feeling of being ignored, excluded, or kind of sidelined out of a social group. There has been actual research on what this does to us psychologically, mainly by one American researcher called Kipling Williams. He and his colleagues basically created this experimental condition called Cyberball. It's become very well known. This is what Cyberball is.

It's an experiment or experimental condition where participants are put into a group and they're told to throw the ball back and forth with two or three other people. either online or in person. They could be in a room. They could also be doing it as like a video game. At first, they toss it to you and you toss it back to them and everybody's getting a bit of the ball. Then in this experimental condition, without explanation, all the other players just stopped throwing to you. The other two people, the other three people, what you don't know is that they're imposters. The game carries on. You are never thrown the ball again. like even talking about that feels like a school sports nightmare.

But this study is really important in seeing the effects of being left out. And there was a meta-analysis of, I think, like 120 specific cyberball studies. I think there was like 12,000 participants in these studies overall, which found that even this small artificial exclusion created a really large mental effect. participants felt panicked, they got angry, they started crying, they got confused, sometimes they even reported like literal physical pain. And this effect, this like deeply psychological effect, this happens even though there was no big drama, nobody was hurt, there was no insults, just quietly being left out was enough to have a significant impact on these people. Let's bring that back to the trio, to our friend at the beginning of the episode. If this reaction in this cyberball game happens with strangers who you don't know at all,

and who wonder you're feeling so upset when it's your best friends, and they metaphorically stop passing the ball to you. The initial pain of exclusion, like, that's just the first layer, right? The second layer is the self-interrogation that comes with that. We could also call this like social-specific rumination, but it's when you've been excluded and then you start to look for an explanation within your own behavior. So you start to replay conversations, you blame yourself, you're scanning all your memories for what went wrong, you're hyper-analizing your behavior. From an evolutionary standpoint, this might make perfect sense, even though it's really frustrating. You basically want to know where you went wrong and how you can fix it.

For most of human history, your survival depended on being part of a small group of food, for protection, childcare, information. Being socially excluded meant you would have less access to those resources, less protection and a higher chance of literally dying. So it makes sense for natural selection to kind of build a brain that is hypersensitive to any signs of rejection, especially in a group and even long before actual abandonment happens. In the 1995 paper, it's titled Need to Belong, it's one of our essential readings, the authors argue that belonging and feeling seen and included is just as fundamental as shelter, as security, as warmth. A lack of belonging is linked to literal health problems, increased risk of getting dementia,

increased risk of getting sick more often, virus susceptibility. So researchers later took this further and they argued that social exclusion is processed using the same systems in our brain that handle physical pain. Basically, evolution has co-opted the pain system to ensure that we pay attention to threats to our sense of belonging and to being excluded. Feeling like the third wheel and having a deeply painful reaction to that is not stupid. you are not overreacting. There is scientific evidence here that this is like, this sucks.

Like, biologically, your body is primed to push back against this. And it really does, I like, it hurts us on a physical level. I think it gets even more complicated with three people rather than with the big group, because you now have the minimum number you need for alliances. In conflict situations, there is always. always going to be an odd one out. Or when people are disagreeing, there's always going to be somebody who's left out. You can't split three evenly. Simple maths. Either the group splits three ways or more often two pair off. And this is when the fact that there are three of you and there

is an quote unquote spare or an extra bonus member at any given time. That is when this becomes a deeper unraveling for dynamics like this. There is a 2021 paper literally called friendship jealousy, tools for maintaining friendships in the face of third party threats that was published in, I think it was the journal of, it must have been the journal of social psychology. And what this paper shows so well is how when there is a third person, when you can see the threat of you being replaced, you act differently. Across 11 studies, researchers found that often friendship jealousy is uniquely triggered,

not just by the idea that your friend might not like you anymore or could be taken away, but by third-party threats. So not just the idea of losing your friend, but losing them to someone else is more painful. And it makes us especially sensitive to cues of being replaced by the third person in the friendship. Because we can see this person. And we can literally, we know that this person is a nice person. We know that these people have a good bond. It's very easy for us to imagine them existing and going on without us.

Friendship trios, they just make this so apparent. And so there is this additional level of competition around who is getting the most contact time, who is getting the most enthusiasm, who is everybody hanging out with more or less that kind of lingers. and it motivates what we call friendship guarding behaviors, these efforts to protect or keep the friendship between you and the one other person safe when you perceive that the other person, the third person is trying to take them from you. And how this manifests is, again, back to those behaviors. Suddenly that you're in, now that you're insecure,

you stop telling the other person about your plans, you stop including them, you stop talking to them. Even though you know what's wrong, even though you love them, when you feel a sense of threat, sometimes it's just how we naturally behave. And underneath all of this is this like quieter, I think running calculation about fairness. Here is where I'm going to introduce one final framework here to show why friendship traitors can be so difficult. It is called the equity framework of relationships.

This framework was developed by the researchers Elaine Hatfield and Susan Spretcher, and they suggested that in close relationships, we care a lot about the balance between what we give, so time, care, love, money even, and what we get, support, appreciation, reliability, gratitude, back, especially when there are other people involved in that same relationship. When that balance feels off, so when you feel you're not getting the same amount as that person who's not getting the same amount as this person who's giving that person more, this ultimately leads to that fear about, again, being replaced. It leads to relationship guarding behaviors. It leads to ostracism. That is what contributes to friendship breakdown. It's all interconnected. And it all comes back to this deep human desire. We want to feel important. We want to feel seen. We want to feel like we matter in relationships.

Is that just harder when you have a friendship trio? Is it just impossible to ever equally balance that? Just because of the nature or maybe the number of the friendship. Is that the outcome here? Like, do we just need to kill off the friendship trio? Do we just, like, not have social technology yet to have, have friendship trias. Personally, I actually don't think so. I know I've been quite pessimistic. I don't think so. I want to be optimistic here. Myself here, like, I'm in a really healthy,

fun, fulfilling friendship trier. I have been for like almost four years. So I want to believe that it's possible. But I think some of the reasons I do think it works come down to how that friendship operates and what I've kind of learned from also some of the mistakes we've made and the ways that we've kind of made the trio as healthy as possible. And I want to kind of share what those are with you guys who are in a friendship trio and wanting to make sure that like you've still got your friends in five years or that you guys don't have some like awful heinous friendship breakup. So my first tip or way that I think friendship trio's work is

when you are able to acknowledge that sometimes you are just going to be jealous and sometimes what's worse is that jealousy is maybe going to be justified. A healthy trio is not one where nobody ever feels left out. You know, hopefully you feel that way 95% of the time, but there are going to be times where it's just unavoidable, even if it is not true, somebody might just perceive that they are being left out or that they weren't invited or that there was some hidden conversation happening, even if it's not true. And a healthy trio is one where those feelings are survivable because you, A, feel a deep sense of trust in the other people that they're not doing that to you.

And B, because you maintain direct communication rather than simply relying on the mediator to manage communication. to manage communication, or rather than just not saying anything at all and expecting it to be okay and for somebody to read your mind. You know what I think is a huge sign of true emotional maturity and frontal lobe development? Especially in our 20s. It is not being afraid of conflict because you know that avoiding it hurts everybody more from a practical level. maybe you've even learnt that lesson the hard way a few times. One of the easiest traps that trios slide into is that they have side conversations rather than shared ones. It definitely feels safer in the moment to be like, oh my God, this person is really annoying me.

She really pissed me off when she did that. But over time, little alliances do start to form. People start second guessing what's being said about them when they're not there. You start to think, like, if I'm having to have. those conversations with that person, they're probably having those conversations about me. And so there's like this low level paranoia. Basically what we are describing here is the stage right before resentment. And we know from many key leading relationship institutes and experts that resentment erodes

relationships faster than probably nothing else. whatever your impulse is to shove it down, to ignore it, you have to fight against that impulse. You have to swallow your pride and you have to say something because two options come out of that. A, you get through it unharmed, you patch it up, you understand each other better now. You, I really don't think you know somebody, especially a friend, until you've had a first fight. And so it's kind of a rite of passage. You guys get through it and it's amazing. or B, you say something and you realize like this person was never going to be able to survive

tough times with me. Anyways. And I can stop tiptoeing. Like, this was never going to work because here is this opportunity we have to work through it. And they're not taking it. So I think if nothing else, and this is going to sound so barbaric, but if nothing else, it's efficient. It's just purely efficient to talk to people about your problems. Okay, so we are going to take one more short break here before.

before we get into my final three tips for maintaining friendship trios. The next one, by the way, is probably the most important of the more. So stay with us. 2%. That is the number of people who take the stairs when there is also an escalator available. I'm Michael Easter. And on my podcast, 2%. I break down the science of mental toughness, fitness, and building resilience in our strange, modern world.

I'll be speaking with writers, researchers, and other health and fitness experts, and more, to look past the impractical and way too complex pseudoscience that dominates the wellness industry. We really believe that seed oils were inherently inflammatory. We got it wrong. Many of the problems that we are freaked out about in the world are the result of stress. Put yourself through some hardships, and you will come out on the other side a happier, more fulfilled, healthier person. Listen to 2%.

That's T-W-O-Persent on the I-Hart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's two golden rules that any man should live by. Rule one, never mess with a country girl. You play stupid games, you get stupid prizes. And rule two, never mess with her friends either.

We always say that trust your girlfriends. I'm Anna Sinfield. And in this new season of The Girlfriends, Oh my God, this is the same man. A group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. I felt like I got hit by a truck. I thought, how could this happen to me? The cops didn't seem to care.

So they take matters into their own hands. I said, oh, hell no. I vowed. I will be his last target. He's going to get what he deserves. Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the Iheart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. you got your podcast.

Remember when Diana Ross double-tapped Little Kim's boobs at the VMAs? Or when Kanye said that George Bush didn't like black people. I know what you're thinking. What the hell does George Bush

got to do with Little Kim? Well, you can find out on the Look Back at it podcast. I'm Sam Jek. And I'm Alex English. Each episode, we pick it here, unpack what went down, and try to make sense

of how we survived it. Including a recent episode with Mark Lamont Hill waxing all about crack in the 80s. To be clear, 84 is big to me, just because of crack. I'm down to talk about crack on day, but just so y'all know.

I mean, at this point, Mark, this is the second episode where we've discussed crack. So I'm starting to see that there's a through line. We also have AIDS on the table right now. Thank you for finishing that sentence. I don't think there's a more important year for black people. Really? Yeah. For me, it's one of the most important years for black people in American history.

Listen to look back at it on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my new podcast, Learn the Hardway with me, your host, and your favorite therapist, Kear Games. And in recognition of Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm bringing over a decade of my own experience in the mental health field and conversations with so many incredible guests. I'm talking, Tript Fontaine, Ryan Clark. Sometimes when we're in the pursuit of the thing, we get so wrapped up in the chase that we don't realize that we are in possession of the thing. And we're still chasing it. And we don't know when we've done enough. Because people scoreboard watch.

Life becomes about wins and losses. Steve Burns, Dustin Ross, because you find it important to be a good person while you hear on earth? Are you a good person because you're afraid? Because that's two different intentions, bro. Absolutely. And that's two different levels of trust.

I want you to just really be a good person. Join me, Kear Gaines, as we have real conversations about healing, growth, fatherhood, pressure, and purpose on my new podcast, Learn the Hard Way. Open your free, Our Heart Radio app. Search Learn the Hardway. hard way and listen now.

The next tip I have that I really recommend for flourishing friendship trios. It's like a tongue twister. Flourishing friendship trios, that's not that bad. It's allowing the central or core person to change over time. Trioes are naturally dynamic. We've talked about these roles. There will be phases when one person is more central, whether that is because they are, I don't know, going through a break.

up or because they're, you know, the ones who are organizing everything or, I don't know, like, maybe they're, like, they're getting married or the ones with, like, the most energy at the time. Transitioning this over time and letting people flow into different roles and flow into, like, different seasons and be the one that takes on more and be the one that takes on less, I think prevents the resentment creeping in when you feel like you always have to show up in a certain way. If you feel like this is kind of weird and you're like, wait, things are changing. Wait, this person isn't making as many plans, like blah, blah, blah. Maybe it is your time to step into that role yourself.

It is easy to see change as this thing that is like life-ending threatening is going to ruin the friendship. but if nothing major or dramatic has happened, it may be that you're just resettling into a new way of relating to each other or just your new roles. So accept that change in your friendship is going to happen and just see how things fit. It's like romantic relationships. People need to take turns being different versions of themselves in the relationship.

It is super normal. So you have to accept that, just like you have to accept jealousy. My third tip might sound a little bit counterintuitive at first, but I cannot also stress the importance enough of investing in the individual friendships first. You might hear me say that and be like, wait, hold up. Aren't we talking about how friendship trios always collapse because people feel left out? Yes, sometimes, but if we think back to the concept of similian ties, the trio was built on three strong connections plus the fourth big one.

If these individual connections aren't well maintained, if you and the other person separately don't know each other or aren't really hanging out with each other well enough, the trio is going to start to weaken simply because the ties that make it up are weak as well. obviously don't take a private bloody trip to new york and not tell the other person because that's insane but like go and grab coffee just with one friend sometimes or go for long walks just with the other friend it also stops you from becoming dependent on one person to carry the dynamic if you're close to both people in the group then this is good practice it's not weird it shouldn't be uncomfortable when one of you isn't available or when one of you just wants to do something with

the other person. What it does mean though is that you've also, you've got to be okay with your friends doing stuff without you from time to time. Because back to that big T word, like you trust that you also have spaces where you are central to and each relationship is equally as strong as the next one. Really, like it's a trust exercise. We're coming back to this again and again. And at the end of the day, you have to know in your deepest of hearts that these people love you, they're not going to leave you out. Your friendship can survive change. Now, to wrap up this episode, let's return to the dilemma at the beginning. And what happens if none of this is working, your friendship is just falling apart, it is in like a tailspin, like it is going down.

What do we do then? What do we do and we're unsure if we want to continue the friendship trio or the friendship singular? My advice is for this person again, but also for all situations like this in general. When you find yourself in a dynamic like this where something has happened, a situation has occurred, please talk about it as quickly as possible. Do not ignore that advice. Do not let an emotional wound fester. If it has gotten to that point where like you guys are at a stalemate,

be the bigger person and reach out. and I know you probably don't want to hear that. You probably hate hearing that. But really the question is this. Is this friendship worth it to you? Is it worth saving? How long have you been friends? Have you made similar mistakes in the past and been forgiven?

Is this something I think that we can recover from? It doesn't have to be a mutual decision. But if you decide, like, hey, yeah, I actually love this person. I'm going to regret not trying to fix this. I care about them, enough to do the hard thing. You've got to follow that instinct and you've got to do it. Prepare to be honest. Go in it with like your heart on your sleeve.

But I think you cannot fix and you cannot get out of this if things aren't in the open. You need to seriously be like, this sucked and I'm really upset. And I'm going to let you guys also deal with the consequences of your action through my emotions. I do want some kind of apology. I do want some kind of acknowledgement, but it doesn't mean that we can't get over this. Everybody in this situation, and I think this is what friendship trues, and friendships in general, every single one of them will require this at some point. Somebody needs to swallow their pride.

And if they do acknowledge it and they sincerely apologize, don't forget them straight away. Go away for a few days. See how you feel. Has that apology helped? What kind of changes are you expecting? What is going to be the line you don't want? crossed and move on from there. If they don't apologize, if the radio silence continues, if they don't take accountability, I'm sorry, but I just don't think it's in your hands anymore.

And I think that's nice that you know you tried. You were the one who was the bigger person. Maybe you just need to let the friendship rest for a bit. Nobody else can draw that line for you, but I think some red flags that often signal that the trio is doing more harm than good are when you do feel chronically left out. You do feel really anxious rather than excited or happy before seeing them. After spending time together as well, you know, you regularly leave feeling smaller than when you arrived. You feel ganged up on, you feel belittled, you feel isolated. you might also feel kind of ashamed or overstimulated.

Like you really have to put a lot of energy into this rather than just seeing your friends. And I think the biggest sign that the friendship is done is when you just don't like who you are when you shop with the group. Maybe because it is making you feel defensive or jealous or needy. I think a lot of this is because often when we know, something is wrong, we can sense it. When we know people are trying to exclude us, we can sense it. And so we become very hypervigilant out of fear. And that just makes us feel all these kinds of really irritated emotions to do with the friendship trio that just like bleeds in and destroys everything. If this friendship is making you feel exhausted rather than lighter, it's simply not worth it.

And there will be more people out there who value you and value your time and will be receptive to you now that you have more time for them rather than for these people that might not care about you. The practical side of leaving can be really difficult. You know, you often feel like you're losing two friendships at once plus the friendship of the three of you. And I feel for you and I'm really sorry. It doesn't mean the door is closed forever. What I would say is if you find yourself in this situation, try not to ghost. Don't just disappear and stop replying to your friends. Like it sounds like our listeners friends are doing to her. I know that that might be tempting,

and I think throughout this conversation, there's been obvious easy routes that we can take, but you don't want to give people ammunition to say that you didn't try or say that it was your fault. You don't want to give people ammunition to justify shitty behavior. The best you can do now is focus on leaving with the knowledge. I did what I could. I tried.

There are no good and bad guys, But I'm definitely trying my hardest to be good in the situation to the people I love. Don't be too hard on yourself. Like, again, you did your best. I will also say this. One final word of advice. Their decisions and their actions will not be without remorse. If you've found a deeply important friendship trio are otherwise exploding,

like not to sound threatening, but they will regret it. They will someday in the future they are going to think about you, and they're going to think about the memories you're like you're probably contemplating as well right now and they're going to say to themselves like oh my god I really miss that person I think I really screwed that up sometimes what makes these situations harder is because we start to drive ourselves crazy thinking like did they ever even care about me did I waste all this time kind of like we do with an ex and they do and they did and they will continue to care about you it's up to you whether you want to leave the door open? I think that you should. I think there's always chances for redemption in,

even if it's not tomorrow, if it's in 10 years, or at least for reminiscing. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope that it was informative and is helping you if you're in a hard time or situation like this. Our question for today, if you have made it this far, thank you for listening. Thank you for being a loyal listener. In the comments below, what is your favorite depiction of good friendship in a movie or TV show. I'll go first. Mine is Goodwill Hunting. For sure, all-time favorite movie depicting friendship. But drop yours below. Make sure you are also following us on Instagram or wherever you are listening. If you're subscribed, that's amazing. If you're not, what are you doing? Give us a five-star review if you feel cool to do so. And thank you, as always,

to our researcher Libby Colbert for her contributions to this episode. She is marvelous. I don't know what we would do without her. Until next time, stay safe. Be kind. Be gentle to yourself. And we will talk very, very soon. Hey, what's good, y'all? You're listening to Learn the Hard Way

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