Hollywood's Gaming Adaptation Feeding Frenzy, With Chris Ryan | Button Mash
00:00New from Nespresso.Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range infused with functional benefits.Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function,and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving.Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight.Our new double espresso with ginseng extract.Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning.Let your morning change you.
00:26Discover coffee plus on nispresso.com.Welcome into the ringerverse, your nexus feed for all things fandom.I am Ben Lindberg, senior editor at the ringer and number one boy of button mesh.With me today is a person who's appeared on almost every ringer podcast but button mesh,which changes now, host of the watch, regular on the rewatchables and the big picture,man who has played Max Payne.He's the mayor of Christtown, the Ryan S, Chris Ryan.Chris Ryan.
01:12Welcome, Chris.Ben, what is going on?I'm so glad to be doing an audio-only podcast.I'm disappointed that I wore my Casey Dutton outfit today, and nobody gets to see it, though.It's excellent cosplay.This is a real throwback for you.Supposedly Buttmash will be on video at some point, but you know what?This is sound only.
01:30I just get to concentrate on the voice of Chris.On the pantheon of events that have made this the year of CR, CR Month on the rewatchables, guest hosting, Bill's Pod,LeBron and Jalen joining the Sixers, where would you say getting the invite to talk about video games on the Ring of Earth Rinks?It's definitely in the top three, but it's not the first two.Yeah.Okay.I'll take it.When I reached out to you about this, you asked me a very reasonable question, which was basically, do I need to know anything about video games?
02:05And I assured you, we've had Sean on.So you should be fine.As far as I know, he has not fired up Eldon Ring yet one of these years, I'm sure.But we welcome non-gamers here.We're like crunch fitness, no judgments.But you are more of a lapsed gamer than a non-gamer.I would say I'm conversant.I'd say that if I was just in a different phase in my life,
02:31and I got to admit, my wife is away for 10 days right now,and I've thought once or twice, not only about firing up the PS4,about leveling up into a new console.And I was just like, you know, this is,this is a decision that seems really easy and fun right nowand then we'll be deeply regretted in 12 days.So I am sticking with where I am.Usually what I would do is for the longest time,
02:56I would stay up to date on consoles so that I keep playing FIFA.And FIFA is kind of like become more about like,I don't know, micro-transactions or something now.Like they haven't really iterated on the actual gameplay in a while.And I just got into like a weird headspace with FIFA where I was like, I'm not good enough to beat it on very high levels, but I'm too good to play on very low levels.And I just sort of phased out of that.And then because of that, I stopped playing games, but not out of any real life change just out of atrophy.Yeah, it's been so long that FIFA is not even called FIFA anymore.
03:33I know.It's just FC 27.Yeah.Yeah.They have to patch it.They have to do some DLC to.account for the Man City penalties.That's right.
03:42That's right.So the last game I think I played in earnest was Red Dead Redemption.Okay.Which I think probably is a useful title for what we're going to talk about today.Yeah, I would think so.You know they've made five PlayStation now.There's a whole other PlayStation.There's a sequel to four.
03:59I'm waiting on that six.You might be waiting a while because no one can get any RAM chip shortages.So you've got time to catch up.No, this is exciting to know that even, that you're not.you considered maybe dipping your toe back in. I mean, that's good to hear. And I will encourageit and enable it. If I can, don't tell Amanda that you are considering this. But I support it.If anything, I would start playing again just to corrupt her sons. I've threatened that like multipletimes that she's going to turn her back one day and I'm going to have them playing Halo.
04:29Obviously, I've been thinking a lot about games and game mechanics and my nostalgic relationshipto certain games just because of Resident Evil this year. Yeah. And the, the,obvious coming title wave of adaptations that we're probably going to see. Yes, which we will talk abouttoday. What were your gaming glory days then if they could be called gaming glory days? What was the sweetspot? I mean, I was I was really a pretty daily extensive video game player through childhoodfrom Nintendo and Sega Genesis through N64. I would say my glory days were when I finally wasboth in a new cityso when I had left college
05:10and I moved to New York Cityand I was singleno parents aroundand crucially no friendsbecause I just moved to a new cityand Ithat's when I really got into playingI think it was
05:25there must have been an Xbox gameso it would have been Haloand it would have beenthe aforementioned Max Payneand those kinds of gameswhere I would playfor oh my God is the sun coming upamount of hours
05:37Yeah. Yeah, I don't want to play into hurtful gamer stereotypes like SNL did this past weekend,but it is conducive to spending some serious time playing games when you have a lack of other things to do.I find that that helps or people to see. Not that games can't be a social activity,but there's definitely a stage of life at which it's a little bit easier to fit gigantic games.I had a very funny thing where I was living with a guy in Brooklyn at a certain point,And this is right when I was starting the relationship that wound up becoming my marriage.But it was just early days of that.And I would come back to my apartment.
06:15And it was basically like there were two rooms separated by like a long hallway.And in the middle of the hallway, it was like a kitchen dining area.But for the most part, it was almost like two apartments connected with a long hallway.And one time I came back and I was a smoker back then.I used to smoke in my apartment as did my roommate.And I came into my half of the apartment.apartment and my roommate was sitting there smoking on my couch playing video games on my console.I was just like, this isn't okay.
06:44Like, it's not that you're in my room, but it's like you're being me.Yeah.You're smoking and playing video games.And I was like, this is a private piece of prayer that I do.This is not just like for you to come in and do it too.So it wasn't that you didn't like what you saw in yourself.Yes.he was echoing your behavior.
07:06It was that he was just taking your spot.That's exactly right.It's my place on the couch.And then you chose a relationship over gaming, I guess.But it wasn't an Amanda, Zach Barron.It's mere the games they got to go.For a brief, glorious moment, my wife was addicted to crazy taxi.And it was a real like, she would come over and we would literally just sit around talking, smoking, and playing video games.
07:32and she would just play Crazy Taxi for hours.And I realized, like, I guess this is how she must feel when I play Max Payne or whatever,because this is incredibly boring.So I think we just gave it off cold turkey when I moved in.That and smoking, yeah.Yeah, is the offspring's all I want, your song, you too, what you slow dance to.That's right.Yeah.
07:58Crazy Taxi World Tour comes out next year.So again, this might be a great opportunity.for you two to get back into gaming together.I don't know.How does crazy taxi work in a world of Waymo and Uber, though?Could you just be the last rebel taxi driver in a world of automated?I think that is actually part of the price.You have anticipated.
08:19See, this is perfect.I knew I'd bring you on because you'd be so plugged into gaming on sort of a fundamentallevel that you would just come up with the perfect pitches.And there you are anticipating it.There's also a crazy taxi movie coming, which we will talk.touch on in a second. I asked you to come on, not just to reminisce, but to talk about a few other topics.We're six weeks away from Grand Theft Auto 6, and I would love to hear how the hype is landing for youas someone who hasn't played games lately, but does cover culture. Also interested in your thoughts
08:49on the soundtrack specifically and the fact that people care about a soundtrack in 2026.And because you pot about TV and movies, I want to take your temperature on the latest trend in TV andmovie adaptations of video games and whether we have reached peak gaming IP feeding frenzy.But before all that, you just alluded to it, I have to ask about adaptations in a differentdirection.Video game adaptations of TV shows, specifically the Taylor Sheridanverse.And you are the perfect person to talk to.I can just look at the upcoming projects, heat to Miami Vice 85, the just confirmed Sicario 3, written by
09:31Stephen Knight instead of Taylor Sheridan, but still a second Sicario sequel,new Netflix, lonesome dove adaptation.Hollywood takes its marching orders from you.I should use my power for good.I don't know how, but if that's the case,I think it's just also a case of aging into a certain generationwhere the things that you love are eventually going to be remade,and this is just like watching sports and seeing the sons of players
09:58that you used to cheer for now playing for other teams.Yeah.But it is a fascinating moment of, I think, cross-cultural exchange,both in terms of video games adapting these things and then the movies and TV pulling fromvideo games and trying to figure out a way to do it that reaches the kinds of success,not only that they've seen with Resident Evil, but also on a much grander scale, stuff like Minecraft.We're getting into grandson territory with athletes, by the way.Cecil Fielder's grandson is in the minors right now.
10:28Are you serious?Yes.Son of Prince?Son of Prince.Son of Cecil.Yeah.Fielder III.What would the third Vlad be called?
10:40Like, would he go back to Vladimir or would he be like?Yeah.I like a, I like a the third.Yeah.I always, yeah, it sounds very.V3 is pretty cool.V3.Yeah, not bad.
10:53Anyway, the point is when you speak, the suits listened.So this week, their ears are open becauseParamount completed its acquisition of Warner Brothers Discovery.And so with these two companies' powers and IP and crushing debt loads combined,they have morphed into a new giant, probably anti-competitive conglomerate called Skydance.And I've seen plenty of coverage at the ringer and elsewhere of the implications for the entertainment industry,for antitrust regulation, for democracy even.What I have not seen is much discussion of what this might be.
11:29might mean for the future of video games based on Taylor Sheridan shows.And this is obviously a pressing concern.Top of mind after Lioness Season 3 wrapped up late last month.A bit of background here.In June, Paramount announced the creation of Paramount Game Studio, which unified a pair ofexisting studios, including Skydance new media, which is making a Marvel game and aStar Wars game with the primary goal of adapting Paramount IP, specifically what they call.called the Core 4, Ninja Turtles, Star Trek, Avatar, The Last Airbender, and SpongeBob SquarePants.
12:06Those are the faces you see when you get to the gates of heaven.Yeah.Some of those are near and dear to your heart as a huge fit of animation.I know.They subsequently announced Teenagement Ninja Turtles, The Last Ronan at Summer Game Fest.In addition to those Core 4, though, Sean Kittleson, head of creative and production at Paramount Games.I don't know where he is on the org chart these days because they've had a lot of change over there.He said all of the Yellowstone and Yellowstone adjacent titles, Landman Tulsa King, these are all priorities for us.
12:40He mentioned Lioness 2, but not Chris Ryan favorite mayor of Kingstown.Sadly, got snubbed.These are all priorities for us as well.And I will continue with this Kittleson quote here.We are not brand managers and we are not IP value extractors.We are cultural stewards.And these stories, characters and worlds mean something to the fans who invest so much of their time and money in them.We need to honor that relationship or we will lose them.
13:07If we start willy-nilly licensing everything that we can and just to check boxes and fill the coffers, people will get wise to it.And we won't actually see the success that we could.But if we build pillar by pillar, find the right partners and make the right games for the audience,I think we can achieve massive success.And that's where we come in because I think.we might be the right partners to pitch the right games. And in fact, this news about the Sheridan showswas posted on the CR head subreddit, along with the question, is a CR gaming podcast in the pipeline?And the answer is yes, you're listening to it now. That's right. How do you feel about becoming a
13:45cultural steward of Taylor Sheridan IP? I think that it has its pluses and minuses.Okay. One thing that what just shocks me is the muscle of these shows.in terms of their commercial appeal.Andy and I are often talking about, you know,the vanishing of the monoculture and how when we started our podcasting togetherin the Hollywood Perspectus and then through the watch,there was at least three or four shows a year that it felt like everyone was watching.Yeah.
14:14And there were only were three or four shows at that point also.Yes. And that was the issue, right?Like it was just like, well, it's just the Americans.So let's just watch that.Yeah.This is now, but that is what's,happening with Taylor Sheridan shows.Like 20 million people do watch Marshalls,
14:29and he doesn't even write that.You know, Dutton Ranch is one of the most popular shows on television.Lioness was extraordinarily successful.Landman is huge.And Landman's enormous.And we haven't even gotten into his new Peacock Universal deal,which kicks in, I think, in 28.So I don't think he needs my help, you know.
14:47And the other thing he doesn't need my help with, really,although we're going to do this exercise and have a lot of fun with it,is he is an extraordinary,gifted businessman who is vertically integrated from top to bottom.Like there already are hard seltzers and ranch tour experiences and steakhouses.And you just go down the list of things that have been spun off from the Yellowstonesort of franchised specifically, but the Sheridanverse in general is an extraordinary act ofindustrialization and commercialization.
15:27And it's almost surprising that he is still as prolific and active as he is as a writerbecause you'd think like his amount of time that he spends doing all these other businesseswould take up almost all of that.So I'm almost surprised that we don't already have a video game given the way thingshave gone.I was at my mom's house the other day and I was rummaging around in the cabinets lookingfor something to eat.And I came across a can of baked beans that was branded four sixes.
15:54It's Taylor Sheridan ranch baked beans.My mom has never seen a Taylor Sheridan show.Did you ask her what prompted her to buy this kind?It was on sale, I guess.So that's, yeah, that's the reach that Taylor has.You might just come across a can of baked beans that he's probably getting some cut of.But one other recent development.So this week, Skydance announced that it's combining Paramount Game Studio with Warner Bros.
16:23games under the leadership of one Tony Driscoll, president of games and experiences.So this new entity controls not only Paramounts so-called Core 4, but also Harry Potter,Game of Thrones, Mortal Kombat, DC, etc. Suddenly, Skydance is drowning in IP, much of whichalready has a history in video games. Plus, as you mentioned, Taylor is taking his talentsto NBC Universal, starting now, I guess, for film and in 2028 for TV. So you have to wonder,whether this knocks him down the priority listdoes Sheridan get lost in the shuffle,not on our watch.
16:58So in this hypothetical...And I would say that recentlythey've had a shuffling of the decksat the streamingabout who is running streamingat Paramount slash Warner Brothers.It was Cindy Hollandwho had come over from Netflix
17:11and she worked at Paramount for about a year.And now Casey Blois, who runs HBO,is going to be running the sort of combined mightof Paramount Plus and HBO Max.Yeah.But one of the reasonsthat's been kicked around as an idea of why it wasn't working out for Cindy Holland,was that her relationship with Taylor Sheridan seemed to fall apart.
17:29And because she told him his shows were too expensive.And that was what spurred his exit to NBC Universal.Yeah, he's a Kigmaker, the Tulsa Kigmaker.That's great.Yeah, we'll see whether Casey Blaze.I know there were some rumors in reporting that Yellowstone could have been an HBO project at one point.Yeah.I think Redford was attached to it at various points.
17:49Yeah.Yeah.New from Nespresso.Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range, infused with functional benefits.Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune function,and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving.Or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight.Our new double espresso with ginseng extract.
18:18Whatever lies ahead, don't change your morning.Let your morning change you.Discover Coffee Plus on Nisproso.com.Okay. So here's our thought experiment. It's our first day at Skydance. I guess it's everyone'sfirst day at Skydance. And our first order of business, what are we doing with these game adaptationsof Taylor Sheridan shows? So let's say we've got some FaceTime. We have a sit down with Sean Kittleson,and we're talking to Tony, Tony Driscoll. Former Activision CEO, Bobby Kodick, just joined the Skydanceboard. So maybe he's interested to David Ellison himself, who has described himself as a lifelong
18:53fan of Call of Duty and who has said that gaming is absolutely going to be an area that we obviouslylook towards. He's also sitting in. The gang's all here. And our job is to pitch Taylor Sheridanvideo game adaptations. We each brought a few and we'll just trade off. So you're the guest,you're the visitor. Hit me with one. What you got? Do you want me to go big or do you want me to gomost interesting to me? Oh, okay. Yeah, go with the personal passion project. All right. I don't thinkanyone's going to see this one coming because most people, if they even know about this movie,don't necessarily associate it with Sheridan, certainly not with Paramount, although now I thinkit would fall under their umbrella because this is a movie he did for Warner Brothers in
19:342021 called Those Who Wish Me Dead. It came out in the dump onto streaming era of HBO Maxor same day and date. They were trying to basically circumvent COVID by putting out thesemovies straight to streaming. And this is what prompted Christopher Nolan leave Warner Brothers aftera long period of time and go to Universal.So this movie is about a smoke jumperplayed by Angelina Joliewho's living and working in Yellowstone Parkand she's assigned to like a watch station,
20:02like a watch tower.Yeah.And then she gets involved with the mobchasing a kidwho is the son of a witnessthat they were trying to killwho was in like going to witness protection or something.In any case, there's a couple of different strains of things.
20:18There's firefighting there.is like the National Park itself as a setting, which I think is obviously proved really durablenot only on Yellowstone, but on Untamed, which is this Netflix show that did quite well withEric Banna. And one of the few games that I've messed around with over the last few years thatwasn't on a console was Firewatch. I was just going to say. Yeah. And I thought it was like a reallycool idea. This is obviously not the dollar signs in my eyes, Kevin Costner on the cover of the game.idea that David and his cohort are probably thinking of.But I just thought it was like such a cool setting to be,
20:59you are a smoke jumper who is charged with watchingover this section of the park from this tower.And then there's all this exploratory stuff you could do.There are all these interactions you could have with nature.But then there could also be this underlying crime drama going onthat you have to be a part of.So yeah, that was like my,That was my first idea.
21:21Yeah.I think if you were really in the room, you probably shouldn't lead with those who wished me dead.Probably not.Not the hottest of Taylor IPs.I mean, figuratively, literally, I guess it was.But I did enjoy that movie.It's got Julie.It's got Nicholas Holt, Aidan Gillen.
21:36Bernthall.Berndthall's in this.Yeah.Okay.I like that those who wish me dead sequel, the expanded universe of this thing.One question I had, I don't know that he has any say in the matter, contractually speaking,but what do you think Taylor Sherry?and thinks about the prospect
21:51of Taylor Sheridan video games.Well, I don't know what Taylor Sheridan thinksabout Hard Seltzer or Big Deans either.So I can't imagine, given his physiqueand his output creatively,that he's also got hours in the day to play games.He is striking me right nowis that the guy, the video of that guy
22:15who's like, I get up at midnight by 6 a.m.,I've already worked like a full,day. I've got you beat, you know, take that over a year and I've destroyed you. He's kind of onthat kind of like, I feel like he wakes up at four ranches for two hours and then starts writingscreenplays. Yes. So I don't know where the gaming would come in. Yeah. But I think he likes a buckand I think he likes to be in control of how his stuff is sent out into the world. So I bet he'd be a partof it. Yeah. I feel like he would frown on gaming as an enterprise.just in the sense that it removes us from nature.
22:53Now, maybe not if you're making a game set in a national park.Maybe that's a hook to get him on board.I'm trying to celebrate one of the crown jewels of America.Yeah.Just thinking, why pick up a controller when you could be riding the rangeor something along those lines?So I worry that he would maybe not be on board.Because I was considering one way we pander to him maybe
23:15is we pitch the Cody Spears Delta Force.one-man army game.Yeah.This is,this is his character in Lioness.Or we go with the Travis Wheatley horse trainer and trading game because a trend in Taylor Sheridanshows is that Taylor Sheridan is in them quite often now.Yes.
23:33In roles that make Taylor Sheridan look like a real badass, which.Swole, ingenious, and brave.Yes.So I'm thinking that might be an easy sell if it's just you are Cody Spears and it's youagainst terrorists and the collected armies of our international adversaries.I feel like I've read interviews with him where they've asked him about Cody and Travis,and he's acted as if, like, he was his last choice to play those roles, and he just had tobecause either no one else got the character or, like, Zoe Saldanya demanded that he,
24:11that he'd get in front of the camera.Maybe I'm making that up, but it does sound like something he would say.I think I would probably, because I, I too was trying to crack Lioness.I was like, what do you do here?What's the mission?Obviously, and I can just kind of riff with you here on, we could try and crack Lioness.Like mine would just basically be a Rainbow Six.Like, you are put on a mission to go extract a lioness from a critical situation.
24:39Yeah, I think Lioness lends itself to a game adaptation most easily.Maybe.It's just it maps on to, you know, a mission sort of.of structure. You just have some sort of shooter action game. Right. I was thinking of there's a callof duty modern warfare too. There's this famous notorious level called no Russian where you have to,you know, massacre civilians or that's something that you have to wrestle with, right? That's somethingJoe does a lot of in season three of Linus. She does. A lot of innocent bystanders caught in thecrossfire. So I feel like there'd be maybe a moral component to the show where, you know, she has to
25:16to calculate the collateral damage here.But in the sense that it's a globe-trotting series,you could kind of easily have installments.And then, yeah, maybe it's more of a tactical shooter.And you've got your various, you know, your Linus crew,and you've got two cups in there.And you've got your chopper pilot and all the rest of it.Maybe you can do a level as Kyle where you definitely break multiple Geneva Convention rules.
25:41But it's okay for him because he's exempt from the rules.I was going to ask you about this.Yeah.Have you ever played a game or seen a game that convincingly rendered the espionage and spy genre as a video game?Not necessarily the action parts of it, but the trade craft, you have to go meet a diplomat.You have to go turn this person into a double agent kind of thing.I don't know.Not so much on like a La Carre level, but in terms of, I guess hitman would be the obvious one,
26:11which is just about being an assassin and you're sneaking around and you're doing.disguises and you're hiding bodies and that sort of thing. It's less about, I guess, the tradecraftthan it is stealth action, but there's definitely a lot of spying happening there. But I like the idea ofyou're just, you're sitting at the giant NSA room with all the screens and you're just sort oflike tracking people and looking up license plates. Is that the lioness game? I feel like that'snot the most exciting version of it. One of my favorite spy novelists is this guy Charles McCarrieand his, I believe his first book was called the Miernick dossier, M-I-E-R-N-I-K, Dossier.And it's basically made up of source material.
26:56It's like a novel told through reports that you're reading.Epistolary sort of thing.And it's all like, I filed this report on meeting this guy, and then it'll also have reportsfrom the other side, from the, you know, the East German side, I believe in this case.And it's a cool, it's a very cool way to read a novel.but I also wonder whether or notyou could do something that with a video gamewhere it's just about essentially data collection
27:19but I don't know that that would alsoI see David Ellison looking at hissmart watch and be likeso you've got Forest Rangerand data collection so farthere's going to be a layoffs and redundancy listand your name is about to be on it so yeahI think the video games tend to be like
27:39Hitman splinter cell Metal Gear SolidLots of, like, sneaking around, but not so much the, you know, people doing the data collection.But maybe there's an opportunity there.So, okay, so since you started small and niche, I guess I'll go big and broad.And probably the most obvious one here, which you alluded to, is some sort of Yellowstone meets Red Dead.Yes.I have my version of.Yes.
28:03Yeah.Okay.So, and, you know, Red Dead two, they have two of those now.Don't know if you know that.But there's a second one.that also has sort of like a Montana-ish area, right? But in my Red Dead meets Yellowstone universe,you know, I guess the hook is that it's Red Dead meets modernity because these tend to be period pieces.Yeah. So we're bringing it up to the presence. So the Four Sixes Red Dead basically.
28:32Yeah. And you have a whole, or, you know, I guess maybe it spans, you start at the Dutton Ranch. You're up, you're up north.So I guess Jimmy's not in the picture maybe or maybe he is still at that point.But you have an open world.Maybe you start as a ranch hand who thinks that this is just a legitimate on the level business.And then as you get in deep, you start to realize that maybe there's more to this Dutton family than meets the eye.Gradually, you get corrupted.You get tasked with some of the outside the law tasks that some of the ranch hands, you know, you have to, you get branded.some point it's like a press B to be branded. Now you're in you're in for life. You have to avoid
29:15being taken to the train station. That's the game over right when you're indiscreet. And it's just amassive open world. So you have the rural areas. You have the Bozeman. These are where the richpeople from L.A. are flying in. You get into bar fights with Beth. You have to bail her out.You know, Beth and Jamie's duel to the death. Maybe you play some peripheral part inthis really. And maybe there's like a simulation aspect to it I was toying with where it's just,you know, you're constructing the ranch. You could go in like a Sim City sort of direction withthis. Again, I don't think this would light up Ellison's eyes, but you know, you're building upyour herd, right? You're getting the best beef deals. It's almost more like Dutton Ranch where
30:00Beth is like pitching her beef to suppliers, upscale suppliers. You know, you're, maybe you'resupporting John's political campaign.reluctant run for governor.You know, there's just like, it can encompass many games within this larger game.But that's basically the hook.It's open world red dead yellowstone.I basically had the same thing, but this one goes back towards the past and it tries to,I think, capture some of the red dead magic by, I have this simply called Taylor Sheridan's
30:31the West, but I don't know whether or not his, you know, name can be used since he's goingoff to another studio.But I like the idea of doing like a, are those called four X games like civilization, right?And you basically are on a start out on a wagon train west.And you have to pick a place to settle.You have to build your ranch.You have to decide what you're going to farm.You have to fight battles.
30:58Maybe depending on what year it is, different armies are coming through.And you have to figure out what it is you want.if you're building a town,like all the things that you do in civilization,which I used to play on like PC back in the day,like that was always really fascinating.Now,it's deeply problematic,
31:15as was the conquering of the West.So much like Lioness,like I think we would have to talk aboutwhether the point of the gamewas for people to feel the collateral damagethat they were causingor whether it was to allied that.But if you're going for a blockbuster,
31:31I think my favorite thing that Sheridan's done on TV,it's probably pretty tight.between Lioness and 1883.And 1883 was this pretty stark and sober depictionof what it took and what it cost to do Western expansion.And I don't know that I'm dying to play a video gamethat makes me feel that way,but it is a, it would certainly be scenic.
31:56It would certainly, I think, have lots of different elementsthat people would be attracted to.And I think it would encompass a lot of the Cowboys stuffthat we're talking about.I just do wonder whether people would be like, this is just Red Dead with a different hat.Yeah.Well, Red Dead's really successful.Yeah.
32:11So that might work.Ellison is loving that pitch, by the way.But, yeah, I mean, I guess in recent years, Sheridan has not shied away from trying to cover some of the darker aspects of the history.I guess, you know, with varying degrees of success, like the 1923 storyline with the Catholic boarding school, right, which was not always super well integrated.into the rest of the series, I don't think.Like many things on 1923, it seems like maybe he had three shows that he boiled down into one.Yeah.So I was thinking 1883 as well, just because that game is kind of Oregon Trail the show.
32:51I mean, it's set a little bit later than Oregon Trail, I guess, but it's still covered wagon.And I was thinking 1883 survival game, just get your covered wagon to Montana in one piece.and the goal is just not to die of dysentery as Sam Elliott yells at you.Yes.Like, Isabel May does a dramatic monologue.Yeah.Yeah, right.And you have to jettison stuff along the way because your wagon's too heavy and you've got to do a detour and you got to cross a river.
33:22But then maybe there are people coming after you and can you ford it or do you go around the long way,which means that the weather's going to turn by the time you get to your destination.Like a lot of just get into the nitty-gritty.of a wagon train, basically.I think that would be amazing.Yeah, we're thinking along the same lines here.Okay, this is good.We've covered Yellowstone, 1883, Lioness.
33:45Do you have anything?Because you are more wired into the sort of mayor of Kingstown corner.I have something for you.Thank you.This is my last and perhaps most depraved suggestion,which is called locked up in Kingstown.Okay.And at the end, the first season of Mayor of Kingsdown is quite good.
34:06The first season culminates with a giant riot in this fictional prison.It would basically be like the ultimate video game,is to play your way through and navigate this prison riot.And you have to decide whether or not you want to be a peacemaker.Do you want to use this as an opportunity to escape?Who are you aligning yourself with?Are there previous beefs that you have that you have to be?I am a huge fan of prison movies in general going back to like escape from Alcatraz through
34:38Shotcaller and andStart up and take your pick but Kingstown was a sort of two sides of the coin where on one side it was likeJeremy Renner's character who is sort of the Michael Clayton of the prison system in thisMichigan town and then a lot of the criminals who were on the inside the incarceratedI just don't think I've ever heard of a video game that takes place in a prison.Like, is there a jailbreak game that you can think of?There's one called A Way Out from a few years ago, which I played with Jesse, my wife.It's a co-op game.
35:18It's from Hayslite published by EA, and they have this whole series of co-op games.You could play with your wife when you both get hooked back into crazy taxi.Guess what?We're going to jail, baby.You play as brothers and you're like breaking out.And so you're having to like escape the law.I guess you're not brothers.They have another game about brothers.
35:42But yeah, you're in prison and you got to get out and then you got to stay out.But it's less about like aligning with yourself with a faction.And you know, you're not like filing your own shibs and, you know, smuggling cell phones in your rectum or anything.it's not that kind of game necessarily.I don't really want to.You really want to get into the details, it seems like, of all these universes.I would want to bring the Raid 2 level action set pieces into this.You know, but I do think that, again, very, very, very, like, complicated material,
36:21but probably like an interesting setting for a video game.I was toying with the Madison adaptation.Yeah, what would you do for?for this. I think with theMadison, the game would beyou have to walk down the mean streets ofManhattan, Midtown Manhattan,without getting mugged.
36:39I think that's the whole of game. So nobody would want to buy a videogame about the extent of griefthat happens when a Parkerpasses away? Finding the perfectplace on a hillside tobury your husband.Sorry, spoilers forthe Madison.
36:55It's been out for a while.Season two is on the way. But yeah,I am very entertained, by the way, that that family in my hometown, just, you know, the opening scene of the Madison, she's walking down like Fifth Avenue, seemingly, and just gets jumped, which is like not, fortunately not something that happens that regularly, in my experience, at least.But, yeah, there's a perception of cities in some Taylor Sheridan shows, you know, he has his thumb on the scale a little bit.Absolutely.So I guess the question is, and this is a question with the shows as well, is do you need.Taylor Sheridan to make Taylor Sheridan shows because Dunn Ranch is actually one of my favoriteSheridan shows and he doesn't write it.
37:37You know, he's involved, but like, I mean, they just change showrunners after season one.I really enjoy that show more so than I enjoy late period Yellowstone.Yeah.And he's not scripting that thing.And then you have something like trackers, which is bad, but popular nonetheless.Trackers isn't Taylor, though.Not Chargers.No, Marshalls.
37:57Yeah.Trackers is even more popular.Yeah.Marshalls, which is back already for season two.Yeah, that's the Casey spinoff where it's more of a network style procedural.Yeah, it's a procedural with some serialized storylines.I tried rocking with Marshalls for the first season.And I was pretty surprised.
38:16I mean, look, this is just the power of CBS is that they just have a captive audience.But I do, I mean, Marshalls looks good in terms of its vistas and, you know, what they spend on theiron their exterior shooting.I think that the thing that's sort of wild about itis that it lacks all of the sort of brutal poetrythat Sharon is capable of.And it's just like, this guy looks cool in a hat,let's put him on a horse and have him to solve crimes.
38:42Yeah.And that seems to be like enough for 20 million peopleto be like, yeah, I like Casey.I'll watch him.Yeah.Here's the thing isTaylor is leaving Paramount,but Paramount is not leaving Taylor.
38:55So he probably has to bepeace with that. And I think he knows that.And I think what he is counting on is shows that while Dutton Ranch might be successfulor Marshalls might be successful is that people know what he brings to the table and the actorswill follow him for the five or ten new shows he comes up with for Universal.But I could see a world in which like if it feels like Paramount is overstuffing the pinatahere a little bit, like he would be like, this is ridiculous and I don't co-sign this.and in fact, you know,
39:27encourage my fans not to buy this.Now, I'm sure he gets paid off of these things.I'm sure he'll be a participant in them.But his exit from Paramount was so abruptand so out of nowhere to methat it would be surprising to meif he was also going back and doing meetingsto talk about like,
39:44what's the best way to render, you know,19th century the West in a video game.Yeah, yeah.I don't know if I'd, would you abideby a Taylor Sheridan issued boycott?No, I probably wouldn't.You'd go against his wishes.I would, yeah.
40:00If I get to play locked up in Kingstown, yes.Yeah.Tough beat for Monica Dutton, by the way, on marshals.Yes.Really rough for her.I don't know what those contract negotiations were like, but they did not go well.Yeah.So I've wondered about that because, you know, the boys season five had that joke about a Taylor Shared and AI.
40:20And I saw Matthew Reese was on Seth Myers and he was joking because Matthew Reese rides horses.And he's evidently pals with Taylor Sheridan.And he showed up at some charity cow cutting competition at the behest of Taylor Sheridan.And so on this late night appearance, Matthew Reese was joking about how no one knew who he was or why he was there because he's not in a Sheridan show as yet.And he was just pitching on the spot, 2048, the time travel Yellowstone show.It just, you know, it seems like there's.Doctor Who Yellowstone.Yeah.
40:52There's a number of components and it's modular.and you just put the pieces together and voila, you have a Taylor Sheridan show.And maybe there's some truth to that, but there is still a special sauce.Yeah, I mean, no one does Taylor Sheridan like Taylor Sheridan.It is the sometimes awkward, oftentimes delightful, weird pacing of seasons where you're like,wait, this thing had a huge action set piece in the middle and now seems to have beenbroken down into being a soap opera for three episodes and now there's no bad guy anymore.so what's the rest of the season about?
41:26And this was an episode where Billy Bob Thornton gave four monologues,and then his dad went to his strip club.And yet, 25 million people watch that show.So I just don't think anybody can do the idiosyncrasies of him but him.Yes.And because he's become a character in his own show, sometimes literally,but also there's that meta layer of,is this Taylor talking to me right now?
41:47Is this, is he on a soapbox?Is he using this character as a mouthpiece?Or is this just what this character thinks?Well, I've had this really weird experience.Have you seen Digger yet?No, I have not yet.I will say this is not like a huge spoilerbecause I think some of it is in the trailer.
42:03The big set piece monologue from that movieis basically Billy Bob Thorntonstanding in front of a windmill monologuein the first season of Lamb Manwhere he's explaining to Rebeccawhy we need to keep doing oilbecause people need moisturizing cream and trash bags.And I was like,
42:23Taylor is a prophet.Even in a retu is like basically stealing his moves from Taylor.Yeah.Yeah.He's a savant, a script-writing savant.Yeah.And there was some anti-AI stuff in Lioness where I was wondering, is this getting a littlepersonal for him?
42:40Are the LLMs infringing on his turf where someone finally or something can write a scriptfast?He's ideologically difficult to pin down in all sorts of ways.Yes.Yes.Yeah.Which makes it more interesting.I think. So there are a lot of copycats out there. In gaming, there's a franchise called
42:58Dark Souls. And so there are a lot of games that are in the vein of Dark Souls, and peoplecall them Souls likes. And there are a lot of Yellowstone likes out there. Sometimes I will seesome poster art or some square on a streaming service home screen and think, is there a new Sheridanshow that I'm not aware of? And then, no, but it has the ingredients, right? And so that's why I thinkmaybe the games could work.To be clear, I've never really watched a Taylor Sheridan show and thought,I wish I could play this.Yeah, I think, I mean, if anything, I think his shows seem to be weirdly in touch
43:34with a wider cultural interest in certain stories and certain ideas.And so, it's not like could Lioness be adapted to a video game,is how much of Lioness is essentially like pulled from Tom Clancy anyway.And maybe even from the kind of fetishization of modern military active action that we see in some of those like Rainbow Six type games or Call of Duty type games.And this, you know, I think Yellowstone probably predates Red Dead, but it does it?It's like 2018.Yeah.Red Dead.
44:12I mean, yeah, it's kind of tough to say because I guess there was like, even before Red Dead redemption, there was Red Dead revolver.which so Red Dead was 2010and then Red Dead Revolver was 2004but yeahit's in the consciousness that peoplewant to put a cowboy hat on and go do this stuffso I almost feel like he just kind of has his fingeron a weird pulse
44:35of what people are interested anywaybut yeah I don't think I everI mean his stories are so soap operaticlike every one of them hassome weird like the whole lionessJoe's husbandhe's a thrashclassic surgeon. They've got these kids.
44:52I feel for that guy. He's got great hair. He's a great dad.Dave Annabelle.Yeah.But yeah, I don't necessarily long for this. But when I describe some of the pitches thatwhen we've gone through our pitches, I'm like, I'd play any of those games.Yeah.They don't necessarily need to be adaptations of Taylor Sheridan shows.Yeah. He's heterodox politically and also as a storyteller. He has impressive range.
45:16It at least sounds like he knows what he's talking about when he writes a ranchingshow and also a CIA show and also Sicario or whatever, you know, maybe if I were more of an expertin some of those subjects, I would be able to see the seams a little bit more. But there's no showwith more military acronyms than Linus. I don't think. Oh my God. Half the script is just likeJay Soxoc is doing this. Yeah. And he definitely does not explain them at any point in the show.So I guess the other question is I'm not sure how many gamers are in the core demo for Sheridan shows.I'm not sure. Do we? We didn't talk about it. He's he's written.in the Call of Duty movie.
45:50He has, yes.He also wrote without remorse,which is a Clancy adaptation.But obviously, this isin his head.Now, whether or not he's like,I'm going to play Call of Dutyor play Rainbow Six or whatever
46:04and kind of get a sense, but...Yeah, I doubt he did a deep diveon the Call of Duty universe.No, I think he was given a giant amount of moneyto come up with the story for Call of Duty.Yes.And I think Pete Berg is directing that,but I'm not sure.
46:18Yep.Yeah, I don't, I don't,I don't know. He definitely sounds conversant in that stuff.I've been, you know, when I did the Resident Evil pod with Sean,one of our big topics, and I'm sure you talked about this as well,was Craigers, his mission was not to adapt the video game's narrative,but to adapt the video game's mechanics and to adapt the feeling the video game gave him.And I wonder whether or not that, while that was obviously controversial
46:45with real hardcore Resident Evil fans,I wonder if that will become a more common way of thinking about adapting these gamesis rather than being note for note, like if we were going to do 1883,you wouldn't necessarily need to have the young woman and Sam Elliottand you get to play as either one of them or you do certain boards with levels with one or the other.You would just be like, well, no, what we want to do is, like you said,have a wagon train game.And we could just call it 1883.
47:12Yeah, yeah.Okay, I think we've got some good stuff here.apologies to Taylor Sheridan shows we left out. I guess Tulsa King falls into that. Taylor Sheridancreated but not really written show. That's sort of a hole in my Sheridan knowledge.I'm sorry we couldn't make landman work. I was trying. It's just really like exciting about drilling for oil.I mean, sometimes it explodes. But beyond that. No, I don't know. Yeah, his, his ex-wife comes to town. He has to take her to the club. I don't really know how weI'd rather play that there will be blood game.Yeah, okay, that sounds good.
47:49Okay, so Sheridan is writing or has written the script for the Call Duty movie coming in 2028.Everyone is making a video game adaptation.Even I have a tough time keeping track of them.We all liked Resident Evil, got great reviews, has made $250 million worldwide.Street Fighter comes out next week.We'll cover that here.Cyberpunk Edge Runner Season 2 comes to Netflix later this month.I'm sure you'll be tuning into that one.
48:14Is it like worth watching?Should I check it out?Yeah, it's not bad.I don't know if it's in your wheelhouse, exactly.Well, I was just thinking about it because Neuromancer is coming on Apple in the beginning of 27.So I just was thinking about doing a little bit of a cyberpunk run.I like that.Yeah.
48:29Or you could play cyberpunk 27.That'd be a good one to die back into.Speaking of Paramount Plus last month, an animated Golden Axe adaptation premiered there,starring Matthew Reese, who's coming up again.And I know animated adaptations of video games especially is like you're right in the middle of that Venn diagram.So I assume that you check that out.It's not bad, actually.September 14th, Matthew Reese won multiple Emmys.
48:55September 16th, he debuts as Battle Dwarf, Gileas Thunderhead in Paramount Plus's golden ads.I wonder whether or not the latter was more lucrative for him.He's getting an early start on the Emmy race for next year, I guess, with Gileas Thunderhead.So we've proved now, I guess it's been proven that game adaptations can be both good and also financially successful, sometimes both.And so this new trend I've noticed is the bundled adaptation, sort of the lump sum approach.So recently, Mapaloney, host of Bringer Podcast, The Town, reported at Puck that Microsoftwas trying to package together about a dozen different games for potential adaptations,some of which have already had adaptations, Halo, World Warcraft, the Elder Scrolls, Diablo.
49:46There are a bunch of other Microsoft-owned properties with game adaptations, fallout,Minecraft, Call of Duty.But supposedly it wants someone, Netflix, Paramount, Universal, to just buy in bulk,just take them all, get the whole catalog for upwards of $300 million long term.Subsequently, Netflix announced an animated Diablo TV adaptation, so I'm not sure if that's part of the package.But earlier this year, Atari, which still exists, signed a deal with Universal to sell the studio the rights to 10 games.Asteroids, Adventure, Berserk, breakout, Centipede, Crystal Castle's Millipede.You don't just get Centipede.
50:26you get Milipede to Missile Command, Pong, and Yars Revenge.Then a few weeks ago, Sega and Netflix announced a partnership to make the aforementioned Crazy Taxi movie, a new animated Sonic series, and a movie based on Stranger Than Heaven, which is a sort of prequel to the Yacaza, like a dragon series.That's not even out yet.That new game, it's coming in January.You would like those games, I think, the Yakuza games.But just this week, the last one here, Embark Studios announced a deal with,churnin entertainment, which co-produced backrooms, to adapt both of its shooters, arc raiders,and the finals. So I'm just, I'm fascinated by this new trend of everybody's buying gaming IP.
51:09And so the new approach seems to be, you want gaming IP? Here's all of it. Here's,here's all of our gaming IP. You can take it all. We're just bundling it all together,which is just fascinating to me. What do you make of this? I have a bunch of different thoughts andtheories about this. For one thing with Microsoft, I'm not sure what their expenditure is currentlyfor like AI buildout stuff, but it is interesting to me that they would look todump a bunch of their IP on any one buyer so that they could just get a lump sum checkfor 12 games rather than shopping Halo around, which, you know, admittedly as an adaptation isprobably at a bit of a dip, right? After the Paramount stuff. It also sounds to me like in the case
51:52the Atari sale, that that is a little bit like you think you've leased a car.And then at the very last second, they're like basically strong arming you to do a like a paint job.Yeah.Mix kind of thing.Yeah.Like, they're like, they're trying to sell you a wear and tear plan like at the very end.And that's like, I'd like to buy asteroids and missile command, but you're making me buy Pong and centipede.And it's just like, come on, man.
52:21Yeah, I mean, Pong, they're making a movie out of Pong, evidently, which is like,it's one of the more recognizable pieces of gaming IP, I guess, but also what the hell do you dowith a game where you're just bouncing a ball back and forth?Like, what's the narrative potential there exactly?I feel like we've just gotten out, and we're still in it, but we're, we're, a good thing tolook out for this would be the adaptation of some of Mattel's toy properties, which can be dazzling,like Barbie or can be only tangentially related like in the case of matchbox.Yeah.
52:58And so this is an easy answer, but to me it's just like how good is the movie going to be?And if I were making these, I would highly recommend trying to hit the the Craigor Resident Evil budget number.Because it allows in that Blumhausian way of like, hey, if you can keep this under like 90 million or 80 million,like you can do what you wantbecause enough people are going to come see Pongthat if you want to make it into a mumblecore comedyI think that would be fineand that's what I hope comes out of all of this
53:35because these games are gamesbecause they involve the playerimbueing their imaginationonto what they're seeingthey don't need you don't need to satisfyoh that's not what happened in Raccoon CityYou know, like, I don't really agree with the idea that this is like adapting Game of Thrones or Dune.Like, these can be experiential.
54:00These can be largely atmospheric and vibey.I don't think that they need to have narrative hallmarks of the games necessarily to work.But I think what they do need to do is be successful and to do that.I think you should probably make them at around a high mid-major budget rather than Blockbuster.this cost $275 million, so it needs to make $800 million.Yeah, it is kind of amazing to think about how far things have comebecause I'm thinking about a decade ago, early days of the ringer,and I'm writing about there's some good gaming IP out there.
54:36You know, Netflix makes a Castlevania show,and I'm like, maybe they should make some more video game adaptations.They could actually be good.If I were smart, I would have probably gotten out of the media gameand just become a deal broker for video game adaptations,and I would be enormously wealthy right now.But like you could kind of see it coming and then it took certain tent poles to really break throughand then some prestige successes and now just anything goes or seemingly everything goes
55:02or everything must go where it's just we're clearing out the catalog here.And so I guess this is a manifestation of just how hot these properties are where, yeah,maybe it's we really want this one game, but you're making us take 10 others and we willbecause we want that one.And maybe that just goes to show the leverage,the negotiating power that a game studio has nowthat so many of these projects have been successful.Or maybe it's just, yeah, our appetite is so voracious.
55:29We think that we were sleeping on this gold mine for so longthat now we are just sort of hoovering it upand there's enough out there that this is actually worthwhile.You know, most of these things probably don't get madeor just no one notices them at all.I guess the only concern for me is that, like,do we swing back all the way around and go full circle to the point where, you know, the early days of video game adaptations where the quality was not there typically.And the people making those adaptations usually didn't really know or care about the game properties.
56:03It was just here's a recognizable name.Let's try to cash in on this.And now, and I mentioned this on the Resident Evil pod, you're getting really talented artists to work on these things.It's not just people.Well, you're also getting a generation of people who have probably.We've never known a life without video games, whereas George Clooney probably didn't play video games.Right.And, you know, I even, John Krasinski probably has got more of my relationship to video games where it's like, it was part of my life for a while, but it's not something I think about all the time.
56:31Yeah.Craigor probably still plays video games, you know, and I would imagine Austin Butler grew up playing video games and Timothy Shalame has played video games.And so these guys.Timothy Shalamee used to sell custom Xbox controllers on YouTube.Yeah, I wonder whether or not Timothy Shalomey's.is holding out to make FIFA.Yeah.Yeah, even if people aren't totally plugged into gaming,
56:55at least they grew up with it and they're receptive to it.Yeah, I think that the coming wave will be made by peoplewho are probably like, I have no compunction about video games.Like this was not a distraction.This was not something I was, this is something that's been part of my life forever.I think so too.But I just worry if there's such a huge wave because we're in this worldwhere Craigre makes Resident Evil.
57:17Alex Garland is making Eldon Ring.Justin Lynn is making hell divers.So now if we're flooding the market,then can you get that kind of quality?Are there enough good directors to go around?Or are you just kind of back into the,let's shovel this out because gaming is hot right now?I'm guessing that we're going to go back to being really hit or miss,
57:38because if they are doing this in this kind of quantity,then probably the quality won't be there.because part of what's made some of these adaptations successful is that people have a personal attachment to the work.They played the game. They have some familiarity with the franchise. So if you're just swallowing up properties indiscriminately, then will you have that same sort of bespoke adaptation with that special sauce of I know and love this thing?And then maybe you wind up back in a world where it's a video game adaptation. I don't know. And it just seems super unoriginal.but I hope, you know, maybe there's like a happy medium where it's, okay, every one of these is not great, but it's not garbage either.I do wonder whether they'll go back to that era of shuffling it out and say like, you know, we could do better with Max Payne or we could do better with Hitman or we could do better with take your pick of those.And that's really what Resident Evil was.
58:31It's like, you know, Crager was not nasty about the Paul W.S. Anderson adaptations, but he was like, this is totally different from that.And it wouldn't be beyond beliefs if they were like, you know, I think we need another bite at that, that apple.I think we could do it better now if we had a different eye on it.Yeah, the elevated video game adaptation.Yeah, elevated halo.Yeah.Yeah, it's, you know, prestige halo.Right.
58:58Do you feel pressure when one of these things comes out?Are you like, I guess I got to play that?So I know.I was going to replay Resident Evil 2.Yeah.and maybe for Resident Eviland then I wound up like it justall of a sudden Resident Evil was out
59:14but I was going to do that specificallybecause Craigor had been saying like this is abouthow it feels to play these gamesnot what happens in the games specificallyyeah if I hadif there was one that came along that I was likereally excited about I would probablyI would probably try to play it
59:34you know just as quote unquote researchbut yeah I haven't beenintimidated by itand I think that kind of worksI think it works for everythingyou know it's like you don't have to read East of Edento watch the Netflix seriesit's an interesting experience if you have
59:49but I think in some ways it's almostbetter to watch the Netflix serieswithout having read E's Edenbecause you're not sitting there thinkingthat's not what this character saidthat's not what this character didyou know I thinkI think it's useful to understand
01:00:06certain things about what makes a property interesting,but I don't think it's essential to like enjoying or critiquing the final work.Yeah.It's not the same,but it reminds me almost of musicians selling their catalogs,where it's just you have the rights to all my music,here you go, license it however you want.This is not quite the same,
01:00:24but it's sort of in the same vein.And, you know,I worry that like how many years until we're talking about video game adaptation fatigue,the way that we're talking about superhero fatigue or multiverse fatigueIt's pretty easy.It's pretty easy.If they keep making really good movies, nobody's going to care.Yes.
01:00:40And if they screw them up and they start slopping them out, then people will be like nobodywho wants to go see this.Yeah.And the other thing is that like video games is a pretty big umbrella.So it's not as if, okay, every Star Wars project has something in common with other Star Warsprojects and maybe too much in common.If we're scouring decades of video games, it's, you know, there's not a lot of overlapbetween some of these things that are being licensed and others.
01:01:07So it's not as if people are like, you know, worried about book adaptation fatigue, probably.I mean, maybe if you've seen enough of Colleen Hoover movies, maybe.But, like, I've just, you know.But it'll be within the context of they'll make five more Colleen Hoover movies and thenthey'll find somebody else to adapt.Like, and in the same way, maybe they'll start looking at independent games and being like,this mystery is actually pretty cool.Or the way that there's like a device in this is fascinating.
01:01:34So, I mean, do you think that there are games coming out now where I'm like, I wasn't even aware that that was a video game before it got adapted.I mean, something like Iron Lung, right, which came out.Mark a Plyer was on this podcast talking about, you know, and it sort of started to say, YouTube creators can make a go of it in Hollywood talk.That was a tiny game that, you know, most people had probably never heard of or played, but it appealed to him.my wife's friends kids were like oh we play backrooms on like our iPhone sometimes like it was beforethe movie came out it was like an iPhone app like because backrooms is like a sort of open sourcemythology and a creepy pasta or however you want to put it but like people have been in thatworld for a long time before Kane Parsons sort of started making YouTube videos about it and then
01:02:22his future but yeah I'm sure that there's going to be stuff where there's a game before there'sthere's an adaptation or there's basically an adaptation in a game or almost happening simultaneously.Finally, GTA.And this is interesting.There's no GTA adaptation in the works as far as we were.There's no Grand Theft Auto movie.So that would be Rockstar's decision, correct?Yeah, or I guess take to the publisher.
01:02:46But so there was, I mean, there's, there's Grand Theft Auto, the 1977 Ron Howard directorial debut.But that is not based on the Rockstar IP.So evidently, when GTA 3 got big 25 years ago, Tony Scott tried to make a GTA movie, and he had M&M attached, and Rockstar said no.So that could have been- Think about what we lost.Eight Miles could have been GTA-3.And so evidently, Rockstar is just not that interested in it.and maybe that's creatively, they feel like they could do it themselves or they don't need to do it because they've made something even better or something so cinematic that what's the point of doing a gain adaptation?Or if you do it, are you just remaking free guy with more violence or something?
01:03:32That is one where like maybe you don't even really need to talk about when will this game get adapted though because GTA is so huge.It is such a behemoth that you'd almost be doing the students.a favor if you're like, yes, you can make a GTA movie.It's not like Rockstar or Take 2 needs a GTA movie.They might take it, but, you know,GTA is going to be way more lucrative the weekend it comes outthan a GTA blockbuster movie would be.GTA, I know I'm speaking out of school because I don't know the numbers behind this,
01:04:04but it seems like GTA and Fortnite are bigger than movies.You know, it's like...I mean, Fortnite just every movie is in Fortnite.Exactly.Yeah.And so it just seems like...that would be something where it's like, no, you come to us to ask to be in our world,not the other way around.
01:04:21Yeah.So we're six weeks away from November 19th, the big day.Is this, are you peripherally aware of this?Are you tuning into the Netflix reveal?Are you watching the YouTube special?Are you just kind of feeling some fomo?Are you like, is this my time to get back into gaming so that I can participate in this conversation?I think I played Vice City.
01:04:43But I don't remember because it.obviously like a huge Miami Vice fanso I was kind of curious about howlike that would feel but I'm okayI think I'll probably skipthe hubb up around itI know that Sean and Amanda on the big picturehave talked a little bit about
01:04:58GTA looming as abox office killer for when it comes outand I will be fascinatedto see whether or notthat actually does impactbox office numbers and around the timewhen it comes out. As far as TVegos, you know, I've noticed that there's a very soft end of the year between now and Harry Potter
01:05:20in terms of big, big shows coming out. And I wonder whether or not that's because they assumepeople are going to be playing Grand Theft Audio instead of watching any kind of like genretelevision shows. But yeah, I'm a pretty happy, I'm at a happy distance from GTA. And I'm sureI'll check it out, but not like first weekend, first day kind of thing. You like crimes.I do.Fictional crime.I do.It does seem like making mischief in Vice City could potentially be up your alley at some point.
01:05:53Has the model of GTA or like that open world stuff?Like I see stuff on Instagram sometimes where it's like L.A.Like the L.A. versions of it.But it's not, I think it's like open world and you're playing as like a cop in L.A.Or do they do that?Like are you allowed to kind of like iterate off of what GTA sort of invented?Yeah, I mean, there are modders, some of which have been bought up by the company that makes GTA and kind of brought in house.But a big thing in GTA that's kind of kept it relevant and selling low these many years is people streaming it.
01:06:28It's just huge on Twitch and every other streamer.And people role playing in GTA.You know, you can just like be a regular person in the world of GTA or be a police officer or whatever and just go about your business in that world, in a kind of like free guy way.I guess.Okay.Yeah.So that is a big thing.But, you know, and there's just like one reason why it took forever for them to make GTA 6 is that they're just minting money still with the online component of GTA 5, which people are still playing forever.
01:06:59So it's just the total cash cow.And I do wonder about that just because I think they've done studies like a GTA game comes out and people are so busy committing make-believe crime that real life crime subsides.It's like a public good for society when a GTA game comes out.And in the video game world, every company just clustered all of its releases in the few months leading up to GTA because it's like it's a ghost town.It's tumbo weeds from mid-November on.There's nothing else coming out.And so maybe that does extend to some extent to other media.I do think that's a bit overblown because like GTA isn't on every system.
01:07:44Not every gamer wants to play GTA.More gamers want to play that than any other game.But, you know, there are a lot of people who play other things or they have time for multiple games.And like, you know, I don't think obviously like, you know, you're getting Dune's Day right in late December.Sure.At that point, I don't think people are going to be staying away from the multiplex because they're just glued to my city.But it is a consideration because, you know, by some metrics at least I'm sure it will be the biggest most lucrative entertainment launch of all time.Yeah.
01:08:13Right.Yeah.Right.Marshalls. Yeah, exactly. So, so I want to ask you, since you're a music guy, in addition to all the other kinds of guys you are, is the soundtrack for GTA. You know, they've, they've put it out in dribs and drabs. They've announced there's going to be a 34 track soundtrack album for this thing coming out. All originals with like big name artists. And some of the singles are are out already. You know, they like, they got Keith Richards to record a blues.cover for this thing.They have like Travis Scott.They've got,they've got Rolling Stone,
01:08:50they've got Metro Boomin,they've got Future,they've got Young Lean,they've got Morgan Wallin.This is just likespanning genres,which I guess,going back to the monoculture
01:09:00conversation,this is it, right?Or they're aiming to besquarely in the bullseyeof the monoculture.So what do you think ofa soundtrack albumbeing as big and as hyped
01:09:12in the year 2026?as Grand Theft Auto 6, the album, seems to be.It's kind of surprising because, I mean,the last time I'd even thought about a video game soundtrack like thiswould probably go back to Tony Hawk.I mean, I hadn't really given it much thought.This seems more like a roundup of major artistsrather than using GTA as a springboard
01:09:37to get people to listen to Turnstile or what have you,you know what I mean?Yeah, yeah.It seems like more of a kind of like, look how muchmuch we can look how much water we can pull here because we have Travis Scott.Yeah, these people are probably coming to us and asking if I can be in GTA.Oh, like here's five underground like hardcore adjacent bands that you might enjoy.So that's fascinating.
01:10:00And, you know, the soundtrack album has been kind of annihilated by playlist culture.Like you don't need to be in a movie.You don't need to be like, Aerosmith doesn't need to save their ballad for a Michael Bay movie.and nobody is going to discover a band through a soundtrack like they did with like reality bites or something.Like you can just, as long as you get on the right playlist, your song can get hundreds of millions of streams.So kind of an interesting time for them to be doing it.Yeah.And you can get big artists to do a song for a movie, right?
01:10:31You can get Taylor Swift, the other Taylor, as she's known on this episode, I guess, did a song for Toy Story 5.So you can still get Taylor Swift to do some awesome.or bait, right, if they're interested in eGotting, probably. But are you buying the Toy StoryFive soundtrack? Probably not. You're probably just... You would listen to that song over and over.You're streaming the single, possibly via the corporate parent of the ringer. And you're not really,you know, I mean, there's a whole conversation about like the album and is the album stillrelevant. And of course, you have people putting out triple albums to juice their streaming stats.Sure. Even if people aren't really sitting down to listen to the whole thing. But yeah, the soundtrack
01:11:10track album as big as it was for movies in the 80s and the bodyguard and the 90s on,it's just not so much a thing anymore.Not that people don't appreciate a good music cue, not that you can't come acrosssomething and hold up your phone and figure out what it was.I still discover music sometimes that way.But it doesn't feel like it's an event or it's something that people are like producingoriginals for that or that it's intended to be consumed as one piece, as one project.I mean, I think you and I probably remember when music supervisors first started getting credited in movies and TV shows.
01:11:47And now it's partly, it's pretty rare to hear original music and original score in a film.It's usually needle drops.So, yeah, I think it's a different world that they're releasing this in.But, you know, we'll probably have egg on her face when like the Morgan Wallen Grand Theft Auto song unseats Ella Langley finally.Right.That will be what ends her in.or she'll produce a very close version of Morgan Wallach's GTA song.She'll be choosing Vice City.
01:12:17Yeah.Yeah, there was a game earlier this year called Mix tape that you might like.Actually, it's short and sweet, but it's very much about sort of like it's about the soundtrack and it's about the license music.And it's, you know, hey, here's a Devo song and here's smashing pumpkins and here's Joy Division and here's Iggy Pop.And it's kind of built around that.And I think gaming actually lends itself better to this now than other media, maybe, just because you are a captive audience.If you're sitting for GTA6, you are locked in for dozens, if not hundreds of hours.And you are driving around that city and you're doing...
01:12:55To 35 songs.Yeah.And that's it.That's the soundtrack.I'm sure there will be more in the actual game.And, you know, maybe when it comes out on PC, people will just be able to stream their own music or something.But when it comes out on console, you will kind of be subject to rock stars' curation and DJing.And I look forward to that, you know, just like having the ability to press skip and shuffle removed from me and just make me live in this world.
01:13:22Because like going back to when GTA started adding popular music license songs, you know, with Vice City and you're cruising around and it's 80s Miami and, you know, you're listening to 80s music.And it just you're driving along the highway and the sun's going down.and the perfect tune comes on, and it's so serendipitous.And those are some of the best memories, I think, with that franchise, really.And so I love the idea that, yeah, you're just, they're actually putting some thought into this.And, like, it's still built around radio consumption.You know, like in GTA 6, you have a smartphone and you're, like, on GTA TikTok equivalent and everything.But I was wondering if they would have some sort of streaming service in the game.
01:14:02And it seems like it's still largely built around radio, which almost seems anachronistic now.but I think lends itself well to that experience of I'm playing this thing for 100 hours.I want to just sample what's available to me now.There's a dozen different radio stations.Yeah, play the Keith Richards song again.So I'm really looking forward to that.And that does.I mean, it's a testament to just how massive GTA6 is the fact that they have the juice to pull these kinds of artists.
01:14:29It's its own industry.Yeah, and get people hyped for this.But I do think it's something almost unique to video games now that people can actuallyget excited for a soundtrack reveal and be speculating about what's going to be on this andlike you go to the wiki and it's like here all the unconfirmed but possible songs that will bein this game many of which are actually original and that's that's pretty exciting i'm into thatyeah all right well it was exciting to have you on this episode yeah thanks so much for having meoh great pleasure i mean put on a ringer podcast at random there's a decent chance you'll hear chris
01:15:03but in particular, check out the watch,which I've been listening to in one form or anothersince before Rockstar released GTA5.That's right.We predate them.Maybe we should become the official pod for this next generation.You are always welcome here,and if you ever do decide to dabble.
01:15:20Next time I pick up a console or a game,I will definitely hit you up.Come back on or Slack me,or we can turn it into content,but I'm happy to advise youand be your gaming reintroduction Sherpaand just tell you what you need to play. Thank you, my gaming Yoda. I appreciate it.Thank you, Chris. Okay, thanks again to Chris. He's the best. I'll finish with a few updates and impressions.
01:15:41It's funny, the adaptation news is coming so fast and furious that multiple stories relevant to what Chris and I just discussed broke since we spoke.This podcast is posting on Friday. Chris and I spoke on Wednesday. I'm recording this outro on Thursday.And on Thursday, Xbox announced that it's created a new entertainment division called XP. Yes, it stands for experience.points that is, quote, focused on helping Xbox franchises reach fans beyond gameplay throughfilm and television adaptations, consumer products, partnerships, and live experiences.It's headed up by Kaleen Walters, who has been the president of Minecraft Studio Mojang.She used to be at Lucasfilm.She's an executive producer of the Minecraft movie.
01:16:21So I mentioned earlier that Xbox reportedly has been trying to bundle a bunch of differentproperties.This seems to be part of that effort.This is not itself a production company.the goal here is to match up that IP with production companies.So a whole division dedicated to adaptations and other brand extensions in business speak.Also, Chris and I were talking about cyberpunk.Guess which movie was announced on Thursday to be in development?
01:16:46Yes, cyberpunk, a live action film version and where else, but paramount.So I guess Chris can skip the animated series and wait for the movie.Or not.Edrunners is worth watching too.No word on whether Keanu is attached to reprise his role.role in the cyberpunk movie, though we can hope.Kianu, come on button mash.Hopefully the movie will launch in a better state than the game did.
01:17:07They won't have to patch it with a DLC director's cut.It'll run at the right frame rate and everything.So now Paramount has Street Fighter coming next week, plus Call of Duty, pluscyberpunk.There's also been a bunch more news about the music of Grand Theft Auto and the radio stations.On Thursday, six stations and their hosts were announced.It's an eclectic mix, which speaks to the game's blockbuster ambitions.There's something for everyone on this episode.
01:17:30soundtrack, Latin music, African music, pop, metal, country, rap and hip hop, and even more big namesattached. Morgan Wallin and Lana Del Rey are hosting bad bunnies involved, robin. This is not new,obviously. We've had famous musicians hosting GTA radio stations before, but they are pulling out allthe stops for this one. It is nice when inclusion on a GTA soundtrack can help put a song over or anartist. There are a lot of songs and artists that have gotten big bumps from being in a GTA game,But tons of star power, and it turns out that you can listen to the radio and music while you're on foot.So you can stream the stations.That makes sense.
01:18:05And here's the biggest news, around the ringer at least.GTA6 will include podcasts, which can be played on demand, on foot or in your car.So finally, we've made it as a medium.Podcasts are included in Grand Theft Auto.A few words about what I've been playing because it's fall 2026, which means that more great games come out every week.I've been pretty busy playing games that will be coming in.out and that we will be talking about on upcoming episodes.Castlevania Belmont's Curse.
01:18:31We'll be talking about that one next week.We'll be doing a Metroidvania draft to celebrate the dual 40th anniversaries ofCastlevania and Metroid.And we'll catch up with some other recent releases on that one.One I will highlight quickly because it's out now.It's called Forever Ago and it's a narrative adventure.I guess you could call it a walking simulator, though that's sometimes derogatory.It's out for all systems, Windows switch to PS5 Xbox, developed by Third Shift, published by Anna Perna,
01:18:57I played through this one and Matt James did too.It is an extremely Anapurna game, and if you've played previous Anapurna games, you probablyhave some sense of what I mean.You follow Alfie, an elderly man who is mourning his late wife, Audie.And you follow him on a road trip as he makes a pilgrimage of sorts to some sites thatheld deep meaning in his and Addi's relationship.And you go back and play through them in little flashback vignettes.So it's spanning a period from the 70s to the present day.
01:19:25And it's a meditation on love.And loss and perseverance and appreciating what you have and the unpredictable encounters that make a fulfilling life.And it's pretty brief.It'll take you a few hours.I have mixed feelings about the game.I think it was worth playing.And I think it's hard as in the right place.And I think we don't have enough video games featuring elderly people.
01:19:46We're making up a bigger and bigger percentage of the population and also the gameplay population.It has sort of a firewatch-esque art style, which can be quite pleasing to the eye.The problems are, well, it's a bit on the nose.It's a little overly sentimental and maudlin.It does kind of telegraph where it's going, not just where the road trip is leading, butthe emotional payoff.Unfortunately, it's not very interesting or adventurous mechanically.And so a lot of other Anapurna games that you could call walking simulators, mixtape,
01:20:18what remains of Edith Finch, even if they're not complex mechanically.They do a lot of inventive, innovative things.This game, not so much.You're mostly just walking around.You're pointing and clicking a camera.Every now and then there's a dialogue option.There's not a ton to it.And so it really rests on the story and the writing and the voice acting.
01:20:37And especially early on, I found much of the voice acting a bit grating.It was getting on my nerves.It was that sort of overly expressive style of speaking.Lots of giggling between young Alfie and Audi.There's one moment where Alfie says, I miss your laugh so much.Just as I was thinking, boy, that laugh is incredibly annoying.and also what are they laughing at?What are they finding so funny?
01:20:58But beyond the performance, I thought that the game just doesn't do the greatest job early onof conveying what makes their relationship work.Because Adi is very adventurous and impulsive.And Alfie, even as a young man, is sort of a stick in the mud.And so I get why Alfie's into Adi.I'm not so sure why the affection is reciprocated.And also the old Alfie is just kind of a crank in sort of a stereotypical crotchety old man way.And of course, that sets up some evolution.
01:21:25and a thawing of his character as the game goes on,but it's still a little like an old man archetype or caricature.There's just not a ton too Alfie.We don't really find out much about him,except for the fact that he really loved his wife.He was a carpenter,but also seemingly a professional full-time wife guy.And Matt messaged me to say that he was turned off by a bunch of that early on,
01:21:45but that once the dog shows up, the game starts to get better.And when doesn't a dog make everything better?That applies to this game, too.Very good dog with an endearing, whole body,but wiggle. Also, one of my peeves is games where you're supposed to interact with objects oritems in the environment, but the game gets very finicky about triggering that interaction. So it seemslike you're centering that object on the screen and you're pointing your reticle at it and it's justnot giving you the option to interact with it. And that's what the whole game is based around.
01:22:14So I'm constantly shuffling around and repositioning my camera to try to get that option to show upagain. Not my favorite thing. On the whole, though, a noble effort doesn't take up too much of your time.It did take up a lot of time for the developers who announced this game six years ago.I'm not sure exactly why it took that long to make, but it doesn't take that long to play.And it's 20 bucks or less on sale, so it's priced appropriately.It's obviously a tough time of here to recommend a good-ish game, but you could consider checking it out if anything I said sounds good to you.Or I guess you can wait for the inevitable movie version.There are some really nice little moments, though, and ultimately, even though I sort of saw it coming, the game got me in the end.
01:22:51Finally, you may have seen a wave of publicity for Final Fantasy 7 Revelation this week.Well, I participated in a preview event as well.I went to a Square Unix showcase where I got some hands on time with Revelation.And also, the remake of Romancing Saga 3.I have never played a saga game or a romancing saga game.But in the part that I played, there was a snowman character in my party called Flurry.So I'm sold.That game's coming out in February.
01:23:14Revelation comes out in April.Obviously, I'm excited for it.This is the grand conclusion of the Final Fantasy 7 remake trilogy.And the part I played was about a 40-minute sequence set early in the game in the northern crater area,where the party is pursuing Sephraoth.It's good to be back with the gang, some good banter and joshing and dialogue,even though clouds not in the best headspace.Sid and Vincent are playable.
01:23:38So it was sort of a stroll into the crater, fighting enemies as we went.Eventually, it culminates in a boss fight.We get some cutscenes.The demo did include,The new fits system function integrated tactical suitwear.It's sort of a swappable class system so that you can customize your characters.And so as cloud, I had the summoner fit equipped.And so I could do some summons and there were some elemental tag team attacks.
01:24:04I don't know that I needed that.I already enjoyed Final Fantasy 7's combat.And it feels a little like gilding the lily, just adding something to say that you added something.But maybe there's more to it.I didn't mind it.It looks great.I was playing on PS5 Pro.And as you know, nothing new for me.
01:24:19I know pro.So I felt right at home.By the way, did you see that GameStop is evidently selling pre-owned pros for $1,400?That's Highway Robbery, though I feel better about having bought one when I did.Game looks great, ran fine.I can't say that the demo was really a revelation.Nothing I saw may be less excited or really more excited.I had already reached a high excitement level for this game.
01:24:40And I didn't get to test out the high wind, the airship or see the open world,which is going to be the big hook for this game, along with whatevertweaks they make to the beloved story. Anyway, I'm glad that they're getting this thing out all threeinstallments in a span of seven years or so. That's pretty impressive given the length and productionvalue even for remakes. And I think it's going to be good. You heard it here, not first. We will certainlycover it on button mash, though it's hard to look ahead that many months in the future. It's not that far,but there are so many games to focus on just this month, including another Final Fantasy game,Final Fantasy Resonance, which we will be covering in a couple of weeks. So stick with us, much more
01:25:17mashing to come. You can, of course, contact us at Ringiversegaming at gmail.com. Tell us what's on your list of games that have not yet been adapted or had an adaptation announced. What's the gaming property that everyone's sleeping on? We can share some responses next time. And I will leave you with the tweet of the week as both a baseball nerd and a gaming nerd. This was from At House of Decline. If you like Pokemon, perhaps I can introduce you to another turn-based RPG with switching out deep stat analysis, field conditions, and a whole host of oddly named and shaped little guy.to choose as your comfort character.That's right, it's baseball.And if October's jam-packed game release calendarleaves any free time in your life,check out some playoff baseball.This tweet helped me understand how I wound uphosting a gaming podcast and a baseball podcast.
01:26:01Turns out those interests are aligned.Thanks to Devin Renato for producing this podcastand to our junior remgapal for his senior podcast management.Be back next week when Buttonmash meets the Belmonts.
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