The Vault with Financielle - “Am I being pushed into the family business?” | The Vault Episode 77

Episode Date: August 13, 2025

Send us a text“You’re not entitled to someone else’s pension after divorce” - we unpack this week’s controversial opinion, then dive into your dilemmas:💸 ”Is My Emergency Fund Just Wasting Away?”💸 ”Am I being pushed into the family business?”Got a money win or (totally anonymous) dilemma? Share it via the Financielle app community or email [e-mail] 💌You’re not alone in figuring this stuff out. Get honest, helpful reads at financielle.com 💖💸Connect with our Partners🐝 Consolidate your pensions with PensionBee (capital at risk)🫶 Protect yourself and loved ones with our friends at Lifesearch✍ Write a will that is tailored to you with Octopus Legacy🏡 Meet our Financielle approved Mortgage Brokers💸 Commission-free investing* with Trading 212 (capital at risk)🛒 Cashback on your shopping with Jam Doughnut (use code FINC)*The above are tracked links, which tells our partners we sent you and may in future result in a payment or benefit to our site.The Vault is an entertaining yet thought provoking podcast that answers our community’s dilemmas and confessions surrounding women and money.Visit https://www.financielle.com to download our app.Watch the podcast on YouTube.Follow Financielle for more:▶︎ TikTok▶︎ InstagramAbout Financielle:Financielle is a female focussed finance app helping women to take back control of their money, ditch debt, increase savings and invest in their future.Recorded and Produced by Liverpool Podcast Studios▶︎ Web ▶︎ Instagram▶︎ LinkedIn

Welcome to The Vault with Finance Child. This is a safe space where we talk all things life and money and no topics are off limits. Right. I feel like I'm going to trigger you with this controversial opinion, so I'm going to get straight into it. I've got my tea ready. I'm here for it. Spill tea. Spill, oh yeah.

You're not entitled to someone else's pension after divorce. Oh, this is talking to you. Wow. This is so controversial. I'm very relevant for a lot of our. You are not entitled to someone else. Your husband's or wives, yeah, after divorce. Well, as part of the divorce to take it away.

People are so protective of their pensions. And I'm going to say it, men are protective of their pensions. And we have seen, and I want to look at more stats on this actually, because when no fault divorce came in fairly recently in the past few years, there was a massive increase in the number of divorces. So I think there's probably loads of stats around the, I mean, we know, I think it's it one and two marriages and in divorce. I think I do know that stat, but there's other stats around like a wave of like divorces in 50s and 60s. So previous generations it was, no, no, no, till death does part, like you've made your vows.

No matter what, he or she does or acts or says. For years, you couldn't just have this no-fault divorce and they brought it in. And it was where you didn't have to blame someone and there wasn't a party that was at fault. And there was an increase. Because you can imagine people finally didn't have to say, you've done something so I want a divorce. It's actually, this isn't working out and I don't want to be with you anymore. It's amicable. We don't want to be together anymore.

So there was this increase. And more and more people, I think, are having the confidence to go, no, I'm not standing for this. I can be, I can thrive in my older age. I don't need to be with you. I actually would prefer time on my own than not. So I think this was a big, big thing. But the generation that are going through this are the people in their 50s and younger, have had the lower earner, typically.

The female has put her career on pause. She has taken on part-time jobs. She's taken on lower-salaried jobs so that she can flexible. And this isn't us like stereotyping. Pension B have done a really good report on where the gender pay gap, sorry, the gender pension gap comes from. And it stems from basically maternity. Yeah, the minute that someone gets pregnant, it starts.

That's where it starts. And so this is an absolute fact. So what happens is when you then come to a situation where people get divorced, In the UK what tends to happen is you start with a 50-50 split of all assets and then there's different conversations and different assessments done and it's very complicated and you know some of you listen to this now are going through this. I know so many of you that are racking up tens of thousands of pounds in legal fees when it's fairly reasonable. It's not like court. It's just let's kind of do all the different work that's involved and you might not be

agreeing, but you're, you're being agreeable and amicable. You're just not agreeing on the numbers. When you don't agree, that's a whole other level of costs and fees. And it's so difficult, you know, so the court and or the negotiator, the mediator and all the lawyers will look at different factors. They'll look at things like, okay, what's the earning potential of both parties? Because if one party has had a situation where they have a career that will not earn as much, and it's not because they're not as clever or not as good or not as hard working. No, it's a product of where they are, a society and where they've been in their career, everyone will look to that and go actually, should, let's say typically the wife in this scenario

take a bigger share of the assets because she has sacrificed and is behind. And the male that we're talking about a male has this high propensity to earn and build, build up pension contributions and savings and stuff by a house. So there's all these different factors who's looking after children who has extra costs. I find it so then when the pension thing it's really interesting because all during your family life

you just automatically pay a proportion of your income into a pension so the man's been paying more into his pension because he's typically been earning more and the woman has been paying her percentage into the pension or not or not like often so many people we speak to do not have a pension

that are female if they're self-employed so many women go self-employed auto-enrollment hasn't been around a long time So there's lots of reasons why these women that are in their 40s and 50s did not contribute to their pension as much or at all. And it's like, oh, no, but it's fine because we'll share it. You know, if everything ever happened, we'd split it. Suddenly, people get really fucking possessive of their pension and go,

you're not touching my pension. Yeah. And that's the trigger. Suddenly it becomes mine. For years, it's been, oh, don't worry, like we split it. And then it's suddenly mine. Yeah, because I know loads of women as well. We talk about the motherhood penalty and that's kind of the trigger for it.

but then in later life there's now the sandwich generation where parents are living longer women are then leaving work earlier to care for elderly relatives so the career timeline is so squeezed and even then it's not consistent you're not in the workplace

so you're not going to get the promotion because you work there's some people who work part time get promotions that's not a thing anymore you can't be overlooked though or like you're limiting you any potential because you can't put the hours in because you are being this like

yeah double carer And so I find it a lot of times when it's like a good pension. Now, this is quite, I think, a working class attitude to it. Which is like police, NHS, council. Near us, it's the BNFL is like a big thing, isn't it, where you get a really good pension. Yeah, and that was a bit, that's half public sector, half private. But where there's a good pension, typically, I think it's massive in the police, actually. I've seen it in our own family where this conversation has been had.

And it's like, that's mine. And I think they all talk about it. And I'd love actually feedback from people who are in the police force and you're this kind of person or in the NHS or if you're, if you're the person in a relationship that's got stronger pension, what are yours views on this? Because this is just our perspective and our interpretation of it. But it's like possessive. It's like, no, that's mine. If it's a good one, you're not touching it. And there's a complete lack of empathy for what's happened in the years and years and years. And so in the long rant that I've just been through and I hope that I've helped to bring to life what the reality is for someone. when it comes to divorce, it's then you're not touching my pension. Don't go after my pension. She's going after his pension. And I just feel like it's not an accurate representation

of what's happened in the decades before. You're just thinking in that moment and time that what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours. And that person doesn't have very much because like Laura said, you were in agreement that you would carry on with the career and I'll take care of the family. You've seen so many people come to asking questions

and we've seen them in DMs and personal stories that we've had from people whereby the female wants to go for the house. Oh, you're like they've poured the heart and soul into the interiors and that's where they've stayed every day looking after the children and it's like they've placed a bit of comfort and they see it as a massive asset in the family so they're happy to take on the home.

We saw this in, so loads of people share this with us and then a divorce lawyer confirmed it that one of her and a financial advisor we were chatting to that we were talking about this scenario where often women will go to a financial advisor in anticipation of divorce like they kind of need to sort their pensions out because there's sometimes pension sharing orders

or speaking to the divorce lawyer and this divorce lawyer I was saying it breaks a heart that like so many women especially if they're not the instigator of the divorce as well so they've had this trauma put upon them I don't want to be there anymore

what I was going to put it out there a lot of people who are talking about have gone on to have affairs and then the male has gone on to have the affair and the woman's left like grieving one for her relationship like she's just had her relationship end

she's thinking of children no matter what age they are and this was her life and you look to retirement as this time that we'll share it together and like this is the home that we built together and this is the life will have and it's snatched from you and so that but suddenly you're in fighting mode because you're trying to work out what should be happening

and often and this divorce lawyer said women will want the house because it's like it's the stability and the continuity and it's the one last thing it's the thing that will likely they'll be looking after the children as well they'll accommodate the children and so they'll have to have the property that resonates with that and often by fighting to keep a house which probably was meant for two people to support. They stretch themselves and they need to get mortgages and stuff like that.

And they'll forego the pension pot. And so the pension pot is really, really key for investments and to making sure that you can sustain yourself in retirement. And so it is an interesting one. Again, this is one I want people's feedback on. I want DMs on this. What have you? Did your parents go through this?

Are you going through this? Is it something that you worry about? because I've always said for pensions, when relationships are absolutely sweet, the more money, the better. You know, it's not more money more problems. Maybe if you're an uber rich, I'm sure Jeff Bezos had a bit of a stress in his divorce where he's trying to like hold on so as much as possible. But when more money is not more problems, actually less money is stressful because you're both thinking, can we afford a house each? Can I afford to live? Can I afford to support myself. If you both, the couple has a bigger pot that's a reasonable pot, then there's

less animosity about can I afford to pay a mortgage, can I afford to pay bills, can I afford to sustain myself? It's frustrating, but I feel like you're not, you've not got this lack of mentality. Yeah. It's a fact, well, it's not just my view. I'm definitely very, it's more that there's been so many people recently talked, talking to us about this. What do you think? Well, as a divorcee child, I think, I don't know, it's hard because it is, like, circum, what's the word, is it, is circumstantial a word? Yeah, yeah. Like, it is hard when you don't know, like, what's going on in their relationship and, like, why their relationship is broken down and, like, who is the breadwinner, like, who, like, what if the instigator of the, like, breakup? was...

The breadwinner? No, the other way around. Yeah, how'd you even go there? It's not always the breadwinner and the person that's had an affair that wants to end the marriage. I think the big thing for me is it won't feel fair

to either party, usually. So the division of assets, even if we're just on that, the division of assets just got to be compromised, won't feel fair. There's no winners. It's like if people to go to court

for young, whether it's divorce law or whether it's commercial law, there's never a winner. You both feel annoyed. You both feel hard done by and but the the person that's protective of the pension for example i would love it if people just had a wider view on why that is and by the way people rock up tens of thousands of pounds in legal fees protecting a pension just about to say like and if the amount the net effect is

you shouldn't have shared it you've all lost out like yeah can we all not pay divorce liars i'm sure we've got some that listened to us like love it that it doesn't get resolved because they could build more hours. Yeah. Alex, it's an area of law that I don't know. I know a couple of divorce lawyers, but first I think, God,

they must need therapy. Oh, God help you. You know, because it's so entrenched in like personal circumstance. But, yeah, there's some amazing divorce lawyers out there. You just have to find the right one. And tens of thousands of miles is being built up in animosity to have a financial supplement.

Yeah. So this money is coming off the pot total. You're eating away at the pot. Yeah. Okay, time for our first dilemma of the day. Is my emergency fund just wasting away? Dear financial, I'm 28, a trainee chartered accountant, and I'm truly stuck. I'm worried I'm not using my money to the best of my ability.

I've got a three-month emergency fund and almost 12K in a stocks and shares, I'm worried my emergency fund is losing me money. My interest rate is 3.75 and with £6,000 sitting in there, I feel like it's such a wage. Here's where my dilemma comes in. Do I use that money to invest in my stocks and shares, Issa, and then take it out if it's needed? Or do I leave it in my savings account with the low interest rate? I've looked around a bit and feel like I could be utilising these funds so much better by investing them, but I truly don't know what to do. The accountant in me is saying it's smart that it's smart to have easily and readily available cash, but the other side of me knows how hard I've worked to get myself into this position, and it hurts to think my savings

are essentially losing money with the way inflation is. Please help. Tell me you're an accountant. I know, yeah. Geez. Her other friends are like, I don't know, dressing up as mermaids and living the best life. The interest is stressing her out. And it's the right question to be asking.

And I have thought this about myself as well before where if you are looking enough to have built up your large emergency fund and then have your disposable income or extra extra excess, extra cash to be able to invest into accessible accounts like stocks and shares is so it's not going to pension there's always that debate about returns and um you know what history tells us is that stocks and shares isa when invested in the right things and your whole of market kind of funds and stuff seems to perform more than a um the cash interest rates that you get you know none of all of this is depending on the timing of things and depending on the funds that it's put in and it's why no one will advise on either.

I think you generally see if you like saving for a house, there's a reason we don't say, put it in stocks and shares, I say, because usually the timeframe that you would want to access that cash in is less than five years and the risk of it going down as well as up is very, very prevalent. And so you need a deposit amount. You have to have it. You're not going to buy the house without it. And so people are willing to forego the possible extra returns that you can get

by investing the money for the security of knowing it won't go down and it should make something and listen there's still rates are better now than they've been for years like we just put them in a cash ice so it'd be like 0.4 or 0.0.4 and it was basically losing money to inflation inflation was quite low and but it's always been around like one to 2% markers so we've just got this reality of that just doesn't make money and so I think the way I reason with it myself is it's safety money and so when she at because she likes maths so if she does the because what was the amount of the emergency fund was it six three month emergency fund she just says three months oh yeah six thousand pounds sitting in there so i think she could do two

assessments and put this in an excel spreadsheet and you can put it into an investment calculator at home as well as you want and and let's pretend that that six stays there and she doesn't have to access it for an emergency because she's kind of really good with money. She builds up extra cash every month. She can handle emergencies. Let's pretend she doesn't use it and do like a 10 year outlook on the fixed interest rate that she's got now and then do it the same as if it was making a prudent amount in the stock market. So like what is it making 5, 6, 7% versus a 3? And over a 10 year period, yes, she'll make more, but not game changing amounts because she's not adding to this emergency fund. This is the point that we're working.

compounding comes in as if like you're regularly contributing and then the interest rate and then the return, sorry, is in a good place and then time and that's the calculation for compound interest. Whereas she's not adding to this emergency fund, it's staying at six, it's flat. So I think what she'll see is, yeah, so it's successful. And it's there because she's just, she's capped it out. So I think what she'll find is there's not a huge difference, but the peace of mind that you get of knowing that it's hopefully covering inflation. It's to stay in the same. means that's not your growth asset. That's kind of what I, like a similar situation

in that we've got an emergency fund sat there, but then we're at a place with financial now. The language you're losing. It's sat there. It's sat there. So I know that it's there because I ring fenced it in my brain and this is how you feel,

not about the numbers, which I talk about with mortgage overpayments and the advice that you might get from other people and we're like just do what makes you feel good. For one person it might be, they've got the spreadsheet and they want to hack and they want to beat and that that's their personality. I don't have that.

personality. I don't. And neither does my husband. We're quite happy with our emergency fund in a place that we can access it. It might not be making loads of money, but it's in a safe space and it gives us peace of mind and we can sleep at night. Whereas now we're at a place with finance show whereby with our excess cash, we can put into making investments and having compound interest. And we see that as our growth lever, whereas the other one is a safety one. It's a safety net. It's a foundation. It's called an emergency fund for a reason. So I think it is on how you feel and like you say, I like the, we always say model stuff out and I always forget that.

Model it out, look at it, make a decision. Show me the numbers and then how you feel. If it makes you go, oh, I'm losing because she's got in a lack mindset. I'm not in a lack mindset. You're very much in one. If you don't want to be in one, you can model it out and change that. The, and the good eye, one thing that you can do is as she puts more and more into the stocks and shares ice at and as it gets bigger, that is still accessible cash.

right so especially if it's in that with the right account with the right provider it's accessible you can get at it's not like locked away whilst it is volatile um it's you know and i can never promise that your investments won't go to zero and but typically they don't and so it's accessible so the more you have the less needy you are on the on having the exact amount you started with so say that that stocks and shares eye support goes to 20k or even goes to 30k on that basis you might even be okay with putting more of your mergers fund in it and having like two grand in the cash asset because you can get at it because if you're willing to take the drops as well as the increases

your pot of accessible cash is higher you've not got it all locked away in a pension you've not got it locked away in a house it's accessible and again to go back to holly said this is all about how you feel you have to sit and model out the different scenarios and go if I moved all this to Soxia and we saw a big market drop, how does that make me feel? Because it makes you feel worse than the lower return

that you get on cash. That gives you your answer that you should probably keep it somewhere that you feel more comfortable. If actually you're going, no, actually, that margin of loss,

I could take that because I'd rather see the bigger ones. You're not going to end up with no money for an emergency and that's where it comes back to it was your emergency fund. You need it to help you in case of emergency.

So have a play around with the scenarios. I think what you'll come out thinking, given your language is you'll keep the cash where it is and you'll get comfortable with it not making loads because you're adding money into the other account, which is a more of a growth strategy, isn't it? But fascinating that she'll end up reducing that emergency. Do you? I think she's got a risk for appetite. I feel like she's got a risk for appetite. And not everyone has. But because she's got this mindset of I'm losing out. I'm itching. She's like she's desperate to do something. So it's like, model it out.

you reduce your emergency fund by how to make it a three, put the three in and see it grow. Like, you might want to do that. I mean, I'd really intrigued. I'd love to see. Please tell us what you do, because we don't think you'll do different things, but you'll follow the same method. How does it make you feel? What's your risk appetite? What do the numbers make you feel? And then tell us what you do. Someone else might be like, no, I could never reduce my emergency fund. Like that means so much to me. And that's the beauty financial. Like, everyone is so different. We're all on a different path. If you're a single person, like an emergency fund, I always think, oh, we need to hire on other people

because there's two of us which means we probably spend more or arguably someone that's single and on their own needs a higher emergency fund because it's just them. I can look to Neil and go, I need you to... On the job type that you have, it changes with your costs.

It's on you. What bills are you committed to that you can't get out of that if you needed that emergency money where would you get it from? Yeah. Fascinating. It is.

Okay, I've got a community room that you are going to love. After listening to the episode about life insurance, I decided the term life insurance we'd got wasn't good enough. So today we confirmed a new policy that covers me and my partner for 250K each. Enough to pay off our mortgage, pay for a funeral and enough so that the person left won't have to worry about paying bills for at least two years. Because the thought of going back to a crappy office job after a week that they'll give me to grieve might just tip me over the edge. Love this because, do you know what, so many people. And I think we've

talked about in an episode recently where I was, I was going to go and re-look at mine and I haven't, so this is a good tip. We, Laura and I had a life insurance policy for us and our partners years ago, realize it just covered, when we learnt more about life insurance, just covered the mortgage. And someone kind of prompted us on it and said, okay, that's fine, you covered your mortgage, like what about your food bills, your energy bills? Like, I think it was when energy was going crazy. And everyone was, we were talking about the other day, weren't we? It was like a scamongering, like, oh my God, like people are not going They're heating in their homes for years.

It's too expensive. Child care, medical bills, like anything. People just cover the mortgage. Like when you go to a mortgage advisor to ask to get a mortgage, they will tell you that you need to get life insurance. Should anything happen, you need to be able to cover the mortgage. What about all the other stuff? Life is so expensive.

We keep seeing people in the community right about food bills and the stress that people are having paying for those. Imagine being a single parent, going from a couple, going to a single family household where you're the breadwinner and there's nobody else, paying for... the Aldi shop, the as a shop, the fuel in your car insurance. At a time when you're just going through the worst time of your life. Jesus.

You have to look at the policy. Ring your insurer and find out you covered for, like, what does your life insurance policy cover as a minimum? Yeah, some people have reducing terms as well. So like it decreases in line with your paying off your mortgage. And so as your mortgage is going down, then you don't need as much because your mortgage is going down, so you don't need as much to be paid off. And that's what, that's what we did.

And I mean, listen, I had another review. more recently because there was a couple of things that we just weren't really covered for and whilst we're really healthy, you just, it's the peace of mind payment, knowing that I was protected properly. I'd actually like, you know, being one of the founders of Fanishell and speaking about making sure that we look after ourselves and I was just sat there going, I am paying more in like digital subscriptions than I am on my life insurance and critical on us cover. And so like I said, we, that's where we partnered with life search. If you go to financial health.com forward slash protection, you can click and get the number for our partner.

You can have a free review. So this is what I did because I didn't need to take out new. I took out a new different thing, but I didn't change my life. I got assurance that actually what I'd done was correct because we'd done that top of one. I think they'd have said, you well underprotected. If it would have been on the original policy, I imagine they'd are gone, are you kidding? Yeah. Life is so expensive right now.

But we've obviously set out this partnership where we have female advisors. so I spoke to an amazing female advisor who reviewed my policies gave me the confirmation that you're in a great place like you did it well, you did it young because my policies are quite cheap but this is where there's a gap and that's where I thought there was a gap

and so now kind of was sorted so you're coming for a free review and I just shared my policies with them and they're so good and they walk you through it and you don't like I said I was paying less for policies than I was to like Netflix and Spotify and stuff and I was like are you kidding me? And again it's because I got it

younger, that was your thing. The younger you are, the cheaper it is, the older you get, or if a health condition comes up, suddenly you're not quite covered. But it all comes back to, and a lot of mortgage advisors do share this, that when your mortgage advisor, I will be able to get you protection at that the time that you take out the mortgage. But you're just excited about the house. You want the keys and you want to move it in. And you're just like, kind of the bare minimum, just sign me up for whatever. So out later. Yeah. And I think a mortgage advisors in a really tricky position because they're like, great, but it's not because it's a sales thing. It's because they want you to not have this house be a burden and life be a

burden should the worst happen. So if you're in the process of buying a house, speech mortgage advice properly and ask about extra extra protection. Don't just go, yeah, yeah, yeah, do me for the mortgage. Get it as part of your budget. Don't scrimp because we've seen the fall out of that. But I love, like people don't know you can do top ups. I didn't know that. I didn't know. You can have loads of policies. You don't have to have the same provider. you can have multiple ones. Like, you've got your policy now. It would be more expensive to go and cancel it.

No one would do that. That's why the review is important because someone who, like I said, someone who will look after you, will look at it and go, that's fine. This is where you could be topping up. This is what you could do. You don't have to get rid of the older ones. You can have multiples.

I have two with two different providers. Now I've got three with three different providers. They're just bills. It's fine. Yeah. Yeah. If you'd like to tell us you'll win, head to the community in the app or email it to the vault at finchel.

dot com. Okay, buckle in is all I'm going to say. I've got a long one. Am I being pushed into the family business? Before I dive in, I want to acknowledge that I'm in a very privileged position and I'm incredibly grateful for it. I've always been quite independent and money conscious. I burnt through a lot of savings as a student, self-funded a master's degree, then took a lower paid job to get my foot in the door in a very competitive industry. That decision paid off. I worked hard. I'm slowly climbing the ladder in a very male-dominated field, and I now earn 55K plus pension plus benefits. My personal expenses are fairly minimal, and I've built up 40K in independent savings. We also have joint savings as a couple. I know I have lots of

disposable income. Again, I'm very lucky. Here's where my dilemma starts, and I feel guilty for even calling it a dilemma. I got married eight months ago to a farmer, and we've lived together for years in a farmhouse. Just before the property market changed, we nearly bought a buy-to-let, but we're advised not to be, not to, by a financial advisor. We're still unsure if that was a missed opportunity. I don't have a house in my name and sometimes it bothers me. My husband is your classic farmer, frugal, hardworking and completely focused on making the farm secure and profitable long term. He works seven days a week. I work full-time too, but I don't get involved in the farm side of things. He works closely with his parents and it's very too many cooks energy.

Recently, his parents suggested I consider going part-time or dropping a day to help with the farm admin and bookkeeping and free up time for my husband and I to spend together, since weekends don't really happen for us. At the moment, we rely on my annual leave to get proper time off as a couple. Their suggestion came from a kind place and his mum is lovely. She worked part-time herself and values balance, but she's also made a comment that stuck with me. You don't really need a high-paying job now that you're married and the farm is financially secure. We're also starting to plan for a family, which is exciting but adds more complexity. If I stay full-time, I qualify for statutory maternity pay. I've got savings, but I want to make sure they're working hard for our

future. We keep our salaries separate, but share a joint account for food, holidays and savings. My husband earns around 25K from the farm plus a pension. We don't pay rent or utilities, which he doesn't always count as part of his financial contribution. He often says the farm covers that. And if we rented this house, it would be around £2,000 a month. I know he sometimes feels guilty, like he should be paying back the farm, especially since his siblings all have mortgages. So here's the heart of it. I feel like I'm being gently nudged into the family business, not by my husband directly, but more from the surrounding environment. And while he values our independence and encourages me to grow in my own career, he also sees the farm as a long-term

investment, something would build for us and our future children. As someone who's always been fiercely independent, I now see marriage as a chance to truly join forces, but I'm struggling with how to balance that with my identity and financial autonomy. So my question is, how would your approach aligning financial goals as a couple when you have different income sources and mindsets? And how can I better use my savings to invest in our shared future without losing the independence I've worked so hard for? Any advice on life, maternity planning or managing this transition would be so welcome. Wow, what I'd like to have. I'm back in a film. Yeah. I am pitched. This is very visual. Yeah. Where is it all? Where is it? I'm pitching an American

farm. This is what's... Like a ranch. Yeah. I'm not even picturing the... Cowboys. UK farm. I'm Cotswoles and her mother-in-law is in the WI. And she... Next jam. Yeah. And they have like a cake competition every year and a mum wins. And they have a local pub and... She has a mum's night. Mother-in-law's nice. And she's... And that's night. Like, one thing I would say is we as women are so apologetic for just like existing. Oh, she was so guilty, wasn't she? You're definitely from a Catholic family

because that's, we're all grown, we're all brought up to feel guilty just for breathing air. Yeah, like we were born out of sin and all that jazz, which is bullshit. And she recognises like, I don't think it's a first of all problem, but she's talking that she's... You feel guilty that you're in a good place financially.

No, no, no, no, you've worked hard first of all. Let's just like knowledge that you weren't just like born into this career that you've developed, you sound, You've self-funded a master's, which you'll have heard 20,000 dilemmas on this podcast about people being in incredible amounts of debt for pursuing a career that they want to be in. You've managed, however you've managed to do it, to do that in a financially well way. You've got a really good savings. You've just married.

You're about to embark maybe family in the future. You're part of a good family. Like, you have, they are first world problems, but you're allowed them. Like, every dilemma is valid that comes on this podcast. We're all born into different, you know. know circumstances. Family business thing is really technical, isn't it? There's like farm has an extra complexity obviously because there's land and property usually with it, but family businesses might be like a bakery or might be a restaurant or and there's so many different

dynamics. There's siblings. Like how do you, does it, how is it navigated? Some people are siblings who are like, I am not a farmer. Keep me out of it. I'm fine. You all do you. Great. Sounds like the siblings aren't involved, doesn't it? Because they've talked about or they've got to pay mortgages and they've got something. They didn't mention the siblings as part of that. Well, and presumably it's because they don't contribute towards the farm so they're like fine. And then, but and then you've got slackers and non-slackers. So there's some family businesses where are we all work in the business. Some people. Do we do we do we do we work? Are we freeloaders? Free loaders? Free loaders? Free loaders. Free loaders? Free loaders. Free

Free loaders, is that the term. Free loading. Yeah, where you... Coat tails of the, like, hang on the coattails of the family business. One person's doing more of the work. Some other person's taking the advantage of it. And you see that a lot in family businesses.

And the thing for the family business where she wants to plan for a family and that makes sense. And so for anyone doing this, whether it's family business or not, it's doing what you're doing, which is build up your savings as best as possible, build that potential maternity, fertility. whatever budget that you are going to need for this journey

thinking about child care so like basically it costs an awful lot of money as we keep talking about like to prep to prep when you don't have as much help and I can't imagine when it's like having

like a husband who's such a relentless job farming like I've just always is it a vocation it must be when it's not a like it's not a job like it's not a

it's a calling like you just you have you're born into it you're born into it literally it might not even want it to do it but the parent you feel obliged because you know how hard farming is, especially if you watch Clarkson's farm, which you reference at the beginning, it's an emotional turmoil, like it's stressful. Yeah, it's very hard.

And it's an honour as well in a way. Yeah, and it sounds like to manage childcare around farm pluses and minuses like, you're at home all the time and you're available, but work needs to be done. What I'm struggling with is the, isn't it about time you go part time and do a little bit of bookkeeping? And if you want to and hate your job, you sound like your lovely job. She's like worked very hard and she's built up a pension. And again, as a family, they're diversifying their income streams because what if farming doesn't work out like this, it sounds incredibly tough.

The industry is changing all the time. Regulation is changing all the time. Tax rules are changing all the time, which is something in the press a lot. You know, there's so many difficulties around that was actually, imagine if we've got income from here, but we also had this income. And so if one didn't work out or if something happened in the family and suddenly you're not farmers anymore, you've not gone. That's all we do. It's a really big positive. I don't thought about it like that. They've got diversified income. And if they put all their eggs into one basket. Yeah, your face then.

Oh, it's a good. But you're like, love it. All the eggs in one basket. Like, you're right, that's high risk. Yeah. It is high risk. And to then suddenly help out a little bit again, what would that be for? Would it be for a salary? What salary would that be? be commensurate? No, because it's going to be one part-time probably. And if your partner's on 25K and then, you know, all rent included, what's her salary going to make? No benefits are already there. She's bringing home 55. Like, what are they going to be able to do? So that's one element to it, which is like protecting yourself and mitigating risk. And I think it would be better to navigate a part-time or flexible role in the field you're in and still keep things separate because like it doesn't sound like a little bit of bookkeeping.

They can get a bookkeeper in for that. Or they could do it themselves, like, software. So I would be like, so they're not struggling financially in the farm. It's not that they need her. It's that they think it's a nice thing. To give her, she was kind of position it like you'd be doing your husband a favour because he works seven days a week and you don't get any weirdos together. And that's fine.

And I appreciate that in this day and age, you shouldn't, no one should be working seven days a week on a farm. But they'll be bringing less money in to do it. By her cutting a 55k salary, he only gets paid 25 and I say he only, because you know that that's not reflective of the work that he puts in. He gets the free accommodation. You get that anyway. By you leaving your job, you're not gaining anything. You're actually going to lose that massive financially as a couple.

And you put in that across to your mother-in-law that you could like go, oh look, you shouldn't even have to do this anyway, by the way. His siblings sound like they don't want anything to do with the farm. You're allowed that right as well. Just because you're married to him, you didn't marry his career. You married him. No. And then the last point for me that's really, really critical is

ownership in the farm. So if you're in a family business, there's the inheritance thing was massive because it's about changing like the tax rolls and stuff and it's really hard for like a certain size of farm to, I mean, you get inheritance tax allowances but it can't pass easily without tax being due and there's not always cash available.

Like it's a farm. So whilst there's like an asset, it's a liquid asset, it's the land and it's the animals, it's machinery and it's the houses. But if your husband works in the family business, does he have a stake in the family business? Because often family don't. It's, oh, one day this will be yours? Well, will it be mine or will it be mine and my siblings? And, you know, what's the plan? Because I think there's more of an incentive for you to help and for your husband to continue helping. If there's a stake, if there's shares in the business. So where is the upside to this working on the farm

as well? And I think that's really difficult to navigate. don't mean to be like jump into this but you've been married eight months so I'm not talking we've talked about divorce so much

on this kind of the last few but imagine giving up your career that you've built so hard to do and all your savings and this that and the other

and you go and work on this family farm for whatever reason in 10 years 20 years down the line you get divorced what are you going to walk away with because we've just talked

about the fact that even staying in a happy marriage and inherit someone passing away which 100% will happen is the only sure thing in life how difficult that is imagine for whatever reason the marriage doesn't work out what are you going to walk away with you've left your career you've stopped paying into your company's pension you've not got the savings whatever it might be or and like said so yeah so he at the moment

they have no house asset so they didn't buy by to let find financial advisor buys that so they didn't buy a buy to let they don't have a house because they live rent-free again great but you should be building like at least if you've got a house, you're paying a mortgage and building up ownership in an asset. You're getting a great rent, a rent free. Which is a plus in another way, yeah. But you're not building up an asset. So you've got a pension. Does your husband have a pension? Is the farm the pension? Because the number of Dalaias we've had where something's been promised and this will happen, you know, what happens if the parents get divorced and the farm gets sold? And if he didn't have any

assets in it, your husband's without it as well. Does your husband have a pension? Is he investing for his future. He said he had a pension, but she might refer to it as, she said my husband's on 25K and he pays into a pension. So hopefully he does. But then that's not a big contribution. She's a higher earner. He's getting a lower, lower income because of this housing benefit. But she's fine. But then what? And so I think the, it's okay to have these conversations which are, okay, what would that look like? So is this that we are going to build up ownership in this asset? Will I have, you know, what happens if they make a random decision that makes it not profitable? Well, exactly. She's given up her career. I think it's really fair to say, I don't want to.

Yeah. I don't have a passion to be. Or if I do, because she doesn't say she wouldn't have a passion. She just sat. I get the vibe. Yeah, she sounds like she's a career girl. Like, she doesn't want to be a farmer. I'm sure it would also impact maternity leave. Yeah. She's, goes down to part time. Well, yeah, and that, and that's for a, it's hard because she's conflict. She's conflict. between like paternity leave at least as a short-term thing like this could be something like it's a forever decision and if it is for her at some point which it might me there should be a lot of questions around not just oh you could be around a lot you could work less no no they're not they're a little bit of upsells but it sounds like it's going to be hard work like yeah it sounds

to me like it would be hard work it's not it's not the life for me I applaud anyone that that does do it because it's relentless and so same if it was like a bakery business or a coffee shop or a restaurant that's a bit openly and open early and someone's running in thick. It's a service-based business. It's on the person. You have to be present. Like, Neil wants to open a coffee shop. It goes on about it all the time. It doesn't everybody, Neil, it's not allowed. Not makes I don't like coffee. It would be a waste of me. I might be a really good coffee. I'm like, Laura's always like, but you have to be there, Neil. Like, yeah, it's all and good. Like, you want the, they're like, oh, let's do the branding and buying the coffee and

having the regulars and all that stuff. No, no. Like, if stuff goes wrong, you have to be there. You physically have to be there. And at the moment in your job, you don't physically have to be at your job every day. You can work remotely and we've got the balance and flexibility. That goes out the window when you take on a business like that. And I do say this to people that are in family businesses that work really hard for the family business. There's two things to consider here. One is that you've got a really good job.

So you've got a job that you'd have it anywhere else anyway. So you might as well work in the family business with your family. You make sure that, again, you do pension contributions. You make sure that you paid fairly for it. You make sure that you buy a home and build up an asset base. And so that's fine. It's like you could have had a job anywhere. You might as well have it there.

But if you are over delivering and underpaid for what you do, where's the conversation about ownership in that family business, especially there are other siblings elsewhere that might sit there and go, oh, at one stage they'll sell the business. They've not done anything. They didn't slog. They were fine. They didn't have to get up in the morning.

They didn't go late. that whereas those siblings are like oh they have it easy because they work for dad you're like or they work for mum it's yeah it's so hard they think oh that you know there's two types of um people at working from the businesses like laura so ones that like take the foot off the gas because they're like I'm always going to get paid yeah I'm never gonna have a performance review like I can log off on a Friday and no one would know where I am and it doesn't really matter and you got the slugger that carries it yeah that don't that the dad just or the mum you can imagine the conversations where they want to go like

like, or what we're going to do in the future? And they're like, oh, don't worry about it. You'll get looked after. It's like, no, no, they're going to get looked after too. And they've not worked a day in this business. And imagine if, like, you were the sibling that helped to transform the business. Like, you brought a new innovation. Leveled up.

You opened up a new cafe on the family farm. And suddenly that's making money. You, you, you, you were savvy with it. You helped provide growth. You commercialised it. You commercialised it, but you're not getting the benefits for it. And I think that you can do, like, employee share plans. You can, like, you know, you might want to buy into a bit of the business.

and say, I want to co-own this with you, don't be afraid to have those conversations because, again, you have to think about, is this a job and am I paid fairly for it? And everyone's of the understanding that, while say I'm contributing to the growth, I could be, pretend I'm not a family member, I'm just an employee.

Another employee wouldn't be entitled to part of the business, so that's fine. If you're not played fairly for it, and if you are taking advantage of it in a healthy way, which is like, you know, we've got to keep it going. Just because it's family, you're allowed to question the setup. You're like, Because of that.

Yeah. You're not doing a favour. That would be such a change of relationships because they're like starting to work with not only your husband. Yeah. His whole family. We've seen people that work for the parents go and set up on their own because they're like they can't deal with the like fact that they're not getting paid fairly

and they've have commercialised it and they've grown it and they've just gone. Do you know what? Instead of the conflicts I'm going to go out and do my own thing and arguably it's then stop the conflict because they then go and work somewhere else and it's absolutely fine. You're allowed to do that too. But don't be taken the mick out of. No.

I think for him he definitely like what's the and they've obviously spoken to a financial advisor before this is not a good thing. They would think about this as well. They would be thinking about, okay, what's your asset base? Do you have anything? Like other than a pension like do you have anything? What is your plan to mitigate for that? And having a conversation about like what is the plan with this?

Because there are siblings involved. if I continue to be the farmer of the family and others aren't, you know, what's the upside of that? Because he's, it's just not an easy life. It doesn't sound like he's got a great deal. He's got an okay deal. But where could it lead? And for her, if you really want to.

Yeah, I don't know advice that you do. Stay in your lane and explore flexibility and part-time. It's not a, the answer to spending more time with your husband is not you helping with the business. is the business needs to free up your husband. So it's a profitable farm like Holly said. So go and look for a bookkeeper. Bookkeeper or like what they think

what could be taken off him because he's working to like he's not got as much free time. It's like, I don't know. There's a bit of boy mum in this. Yeah, you have to be firm. Mother-in-law is like, oh, he's working so hard and you would be able to spend more time together if you helped.

Don't want to spend more time with him. Yeah. This arrangement works. I would literally thought that. She sounds like the arrangement is working very. well for her so don't rock the boat like just carry on but i don't like the fact that it sounds like the siblings aren't involved if they're not allowed to be involved you are 100% allowed to be like like it's not for them it's not for me i've got my own career and i'm happy with that and just like

nip it in the bud straightway you don't want those comments coming in and when i'm on maternity to leave i got a really good you know maternity pay with work and i'll be here and it'll be nice but then i'll be going back to work yeah yeah with the baby strapped to me but i'll be going back to work you're allowed You're allowed. Yeah. Okay, that is all for this episode. The Vault is now closed. And just a quick disclaimer, The Vault is just a chat around life many topics. We are not giving financial advice.