E1189 - The Secret Lives Of Mormon Wives Are BACK, Toxic Relationships W Elizabeth Chambers & Back To School
00:00 Good on everybody. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Val Files Reality Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by my wonderful wife and Natalie Joy. We got Jimmy Sierra in studio as well. How's everyone doing? Everyone have a great weekend. Fantastic. Fantastic. Tabulous. Fabulous. Sleep deprived, malnourished, but we're thriving. Well, we know Jimmy's smack dab in the middle of New York Fashion Week. We'll get to his... Escapades. Just exciting life. What did you do Sierra? I was going to say, mine's like the polar opposite. I went to the farmer's market. I bake some snickerdoodles.
00:52 So you're a bacon. Okay. Yeah, I've been cleaning, cooking, getting ready for the fall season. I'm cleaning my recipes together. So, like, yeah, how's fashion week, Jimmy? Sick. But your son's honestly a little more calm, and I kind of feel like I crave that right now. But before we get to Jimmy's fashion week, River started school.
01:11 Preschool. That's the coolest thing. It's crazy. She started preschool. How are we handling it, parents? Friday was her first day. We got back from the lake on Thursday, and she's only going three days a week, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So I was like, do I let her go Friday or just do we one last, you know, Friday with family? Then I was like, let me just send this girl to school. What the hell? And she, we had been like hyping it up. She was so excited. I had told her her teacher's name. We were talking all about it. So, and she also has to wear a uniform, which is, like, so cute.
01:44 I thought that's adorable. She's got, she's like her school clothes and she's so excited about it. But she went on Friday and Nick and I took her. And we were like in the carpool line. I'm like, here's your school. And she's like, this one? I'm like, yeah, this one. She's like, this red one.
02:00 I'm like, yes, this red one. She's like so excited. We get out. We take her in. She is talking to every adult around her being like, I got my pack pack and my yunch box. and I'm going to my class. And they're like, oh, my gosh, yeah, you go, girl.
02:14 We go in, she runs to her teacher, never met her before, gives her a big hug. And she's like, just engulfed. She's there. She's in it. Nick's like, all right, Natalie, we gotta go. I'm like, okay, bye, River. She's like, bye, mom. blows me a kiss, waves goodbye.
02:29 That's it. I'm like, I am dead. But also, it would have been so hard if she was, like, screaming, crying, throwing up. I would have been like, well, we'll try again next year. How was like being at home without her being there? Awesome. Okay. That part, no.
02:47 Listen, no, no, I, that part was, it was objectively awesome. I mean, Rivers, a toddler, she takes up a lot of energy and time and attention. And that was cool. She was gone. I felt like I could actually bond with the twins. You know, I was like, oh, I can actually, like, hold you and sit with you and talk to you. Like, usually Rivers just, you know. Does River get, like, jealous when you're like with the twins?
03:09 Oh, yeah. That's so cute, though. She's like, put Debbie down. She's like, put her down. Yeah. Put, you know, hold me. Put her down. No, I don't like, yo, over here.
03:19 Don't forget about me. Yeah. And then when Ranelli went to go pick her up, she didn't, she cried. I remember my first day of kindergarten. And I remember coming home and seeing my mom and bawling because I missed her. Aw. River cried because she didn't want to go home. Yeah.
03:33 She wanted to stay at school. Yeah. She's like, look at that little social butterfly you made, you know? No. So she is definitely an extrovert. I have mixed feelings on one end. I got emotional when we took her, but I didn't like, I didn't cry. Thank God.
03:49 At school. And then we were talking about it. Our Victoria came over and we were talking about it and I got emotional because on one end, I'm very, like, proud of her because like she's clearly a very independent. She's very driven. She's an extrovert, which she doesn't get from me. So like, that's cool. So I'm like really proud of her because I can see all her potential at school.
04:09 but then that made me really sad just because like on the flip side i you know it's gonna it's gonna it's gonna be really cool to see how school affects her what she learns from it how she develops and i think it's i think she's this a smart kid and i think she's gonna develop very quickly now and that made me just like you know river still wakes up in the middle of the night and i you know she gets out of bed and then i'll grade her at the top of the steps and she's like let's go get cozy in bed and i just feel like that you know the need for mom and dad or just like you know it was the first time i had that like my little girl oh my god oh it's been emotional yeah it's like the you know now i've been i'm more like i'm excited for her to learn stuff and nally's always been like let's not let's not rush our you know
04:59 our kids maturing and so yeah it made me sad to like she's really she needs to start not need to us sooner than later. That makes me sad. So sad. Nick's having an existential crisis. Truly so sad. But then everyone, I posted a little story talking about dropping her off and how she just did so good.
05:18 And I got so many messages being like, oh, just wait. Day two, they, like the first day, they were like all excited about the toys and the kids. Then day two, they realize that mom leaves and they scream and they cry. Just wait. Just wait. So I was like dreading today. I'm like, oh my gosh, she's going to hate me. She's going to like be so upset.
05:36 Same thing. Bye, Mom. See you. Don't come back now. All right. I guess you love it here. But I also, you'll know that like we have to, for every nap for bedtime, like we have to lay with her. It's a whole thing.
05:51 So they take nap at school. And I was like, how in the world is she going to sleep? She doesn't have like us laying next to her. She's fine. Turns out she's fine. And I texted her teacher and I was like, how did nap time go? Like I'm so curious. And she was like, I sat beside her and played with her hair.
06:06 until she fell asleep. And I was like, oh, my God. Oh, that's so nice. God bless the teachers, man. God bless the teachers. So sweet. Well, we have a jam-packed episode lined up for you day. We got some double lives shows to talk about the secret lives of Mormon Wides, season five is here. We also have Elizabeth Chambers, the host of toxic.
06:26 We certainly love talking about toxic relationships on this show. And Elizabeth Chambers, the X of Army Hammer. She might say. She might know a little something. She might know a little something about a toxic ex. She is with us to talk about season two of the show toxic and what maybe we can learn from this show and maybe some advice on how to avoid toxic men.
06:46 I mean, this show really has some toxic. I mean, the first episode of season two, he was kind of a psychopath. But anyway, it'll be a fascinating conversation, excited to talk with Elizabeth. She certainly knows a thing or two about toxic relationships. And hopefully we can learn a thing or two as well. So Jimmy,
07:05 Let's live vicariously through you. Talk to us about Fashion Week. What's going on? Yeah, it's my first New York Fashion Week, and I intentionally went into it with low expectations because I wanted to just, you know, soak it all in, be a sponge. And I will say the shows are a gas. Like, the actual shows are so fun because, like,
07:24 they vary from one show or the next, like, this one I was at last night. Zaldi, it's like menswear, very, like, provocative, like, kind of, kind of edgy style. it was like based in a saloon and then two days ago it was like a formal runway kind of show So is there any attire That you've been like I could fuck with that
07:42 I could wear that No not like walking around But like it's cool to like See the creative visions of these designers And stuff but like the parties I will say the parties Like they're fun But they're also kind of gross
07:55 Cause everybody's just trying to schmuse And like what brands sent you Like what shows did you get invited to It's like all right fuck off Let's just get drunk Like what are you doing? How many followers do you have? Yeah, it's all of that. And that shit gets gross.
08:07 It's a lot of Coachella, like, chasing fun because there is so much going on. There's a million parties. There's after parties, yada, yada. And yeah, it's a lot of like, but are you going to this? But I thought I was at the cool party. Should I be going to that? It's a lot of that. You really have to be, you have to not want to chase fun to make it fun. Are you working with like a stylist? What are you? Did you dress yourself? Oh, wow. Yeah, I got a full team. Shout out my dog, Greg. Greg's been getting me right.
08:32 But like the most fun, like last yesterday, like I woke up to a DM, like an impromptu message from Old Navy to go to the Giants game. So like went to that. Couldn't even stay for the game. Had to leave before the kickoff to go to the show to make it in time. And like that's just like New York Fast Week in a nutshell. I'm like just rubbing shoulders casually with like Kawhi Leonard at Ragged Bone. And like that's like my goat, you know? It was so sick.
08:55 Go to everything, miss everything. Exactly. You go for the photos. They're putting me onto these like these buzzwords like, get. and go, like you get the quick Getty image and go. It's like, oh, like, we're not going to actually pay for a drink, but all right, I'm bad. Have you been doing fit checks? Yeah, a lot of fit checks,
09:10 flicking up. Did you talk to Kauai Leonard? Oh, hell no. No, he scares me. Have you talked to anyone that you would be, like, fanboying over? Yeah, like, I would say a lot of the basketball players, like, I just have mutual friends with. So I'll just be like, yo, like, you play with so-and-so. That was my dog, yada, yada, yada. A lot of Love Island folk.
09:28 There was some of them. Me and Nick chapped about this a little bit. Some of them are lit. Some of them are great. Some of them maybe in their own head a little bit about who they are. Who's most in their head? Can you know? I ain't going to name, drop them.
09:43 So what were some trends that you saw that you're actually excited about? And what were some things that you saw that you were like, I really hope that that doesn't take off from the runway? I'm loving the hats that are being brought back. Like the Cangle, like the old Cool J vibes. Like those are so sick. I wore one last night. Probably my favorite fit of the entire.
10:00 week in my opinion. And I'm loving the boots. Okay. The men's rocking the boots with the heels. I'm digging that. I've been seeing some like like kilts almost. Okay. I don't know if I could do that. Russell Westbrook did that a little bit. I don't know if I have that one in my bag, but we'll see. But rocking some like sheer tops like. Oh, nipples out.
10:18 Trying to venture out there a little bit. It's been, it's been so much fun though. Like I love fashion. Like I was a doodler my whole life. I used to like create these worlds in my journals and design my own like uniforms on 2K. but this is finally me getting to, like, live that truth. I worked out for the first time and maybe a month after my wife sent me a photo of Theo James. Listen, Theo James is back on my for you page because of the gentleman's season two. Yeah, for sure. So I didn't go looking for it.
10:46 It did feed it to me. You know what I'm saying? And I would say that Theo James is my husband's doppelganger, right? I got to see it. You see it. Oh, my gosh. You're going to be like 100%. That is Nick.
10:57 Thanks. I see it. Yeah, right? So it's, it's the hair. He went in the gym after this. And so I was like, oh my gosh, he was caught in a speedo on like an Italian beach and he's shredded. This is that. He does have some photos.
11:11 I ain't going to lie. He's got some photos. It is cool being co-signed by like icons in the space who like I'm not familiar with. But like, again, like I had to, you know, ask for this person's name, Ellen Von DeWorth. I think I'm saying that right. And everybody was like, you don't know who that is. I'm like, I'm sorry. I'm a basketball player.
11:27 like I'm still new here, but thanks. Do you know who Ellen Von Worth is? Ellen Von Worth? I don't know. Iconic photographer. She's the shit. Shot Naomi Campbell. Flicks up everybody.
11:39 Vogue covers. She's huge. Okay. Shout out. And interested in Jimmy. So good for you, man. Big shouts to her. Oh, my gosh.
11:51 Well, Robert Irwin, the host of the next pro and most recent winner of the Mirror Ball. know he was in a relationship. Was that relatively a new relationship? But apparently he's not in that relationship anymore. He announced he's single. Is that right? So he is single. And this is just a rumor that he is reportedly set to become the next bachelor.
12:11 But like, is he recently single or like my understanding is he announced a breakup and that's why these rumors or. In September, 26, Robert casually insisted he was single during rehearsal banter. I mean, and this caption says he recently split with his girlfriend. fueling rumors he may step into the internet he recently split from his girlfriend i didn't know he was in a relationship and that prompted a bunch of rumors about who the next bachelor could be because it is my understanding that the bachelor franchise is set to move forward with filming the next next bachelor season but they have a big problem which is like who the fuck is going to be their next
12:47 bachelor bachelorette we didn't have the season of taylor frankie paul which i don't think we're ever going to see uh we're learning about it obviously with this season of uh secret lives of Mormon wives but they do have a big problem on how they're going to find their next bachelor. So it makes sense that they're speculating who it could be. Robert Irwin's name came up, obviously part of the Disney franchise family at this point. I mean, it would be an amazing casting. I just think there's no world in which he would ever do it. Isn't he like a baby?
13:15 I was going to say, I feel like he's so young. Wow, he feels older than that. How old were you when you did The Bachelor? I was 35. Yeah, like, what are we talking about? But I was on the older end of things. I mean, they've had 25, 26-year-old bachelors. I mean, it would definitely be on the younger side, but at this point, I mean.
13:32 22, like, we were talking about Love Island last week about how, like, they intentionally cast people whose frontal lobes are having fully formed, like, sure, because they're not emotionally stable. And it would just, I mean, him being 22, unless they're going, like, older women, they would, I mean, they just don't have a lot of, like, rain. Yeah, I mean, outside of his age being probably an issue, I think the biggest issue, issue is i mean taylor outside of all the controversy that was the taylor frankie paul situation with the battecharette talking to a lot of producers they already were skeptical that it would
14:08 work because it is really hard to have the lead be so unfamiliar with the franchise and the reason why they don't cast celebrities is because no celebrity would put up with the bullshit in the grind that it takes to film this show and it's just like i i i i don't just have a hard time imagining they would get buy-in from someone like Robert or someone who really truly doesn't need this show, period, let alone needing to find a relationship, but just, you know, there, listen, like, obviously it changed my life doing it, you know, and a lot of people have benefited from being the lead, but Robert Irwin's, like, trajectory is already at an all-time high. There is this so much downside for him to do this. Like, you know, this is a man who's
14:54 universally loved and it's very difficult. And Warner Brothers would not protect him the way he would want to be protected. And I just, I just think that's the biggest problem was trying to cast a notable person. And that's probably like their only option because how, you know, it also doesn't work to cast a nobody. So I'm really curious who they're going to cast. I don't see it ever being Robert Irwin, mostly because I don't think he would ever do it. I don't think there's an amount of money they could pay him. I don't think it'd be worth it for him to do it for a million dollars
15:27 and they would never pay him a million dollars. I don't think he needs the money. He doesn't need the fame. He doesn't need the attention. And he certainly doesn't need to be forced into an engagement as a 22-year-old man. I just don't see the upside for him. Yeah, I hear you that.
15:42 It's too risky. Like, he is universally loved. This does give more ammo to potentially drag him down if things don't go perfect, you know? I hear you on that. I'm also, like, not going to buy a bunch of, like women being like Robert or like you know what I mean like where I'm like all the women tend
15:56 tend to get their feelings hurt at some point or not getting enough attention like you just you can't I don't know like make Robert look like he didn't do something right I don't know in my opinion I just feel like I can't see these girls fighting over him like giving too much attention to another girl or like you know what I mean like it's I just I think he's just such like a sweet pure human being that I'm just like the drama around him would seem really produced I am fascinated to see how he would juggle a roster though. How many girls is he kissing night one? Like he, the sweet Robert Irwin, you know?
16:29 We have obviously a lot more shows to cover, including Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, Ultimate Girls Trip, and the double lives of suburban wives. But up next, we're talking toxic relationships with our guest, Elizabeth Chambers, the ex-wife of Army Hammer, and she's the host of Toxic, a show that explores toxic relationships and what we might be able to learn about it. Elizabeth is up next. Elizabeth, welcome to the show. Thank you. Big fan, happy to be here. We're flattered. Very excited to have you. You are the host of, well, it's not a new show. It's in your second season, but a show called Toxic, which is getting a lot of steam and a lot of people interested. Obviously, here at the Vial Files, we love exploring relationships and we talk a lot about toxic relationships. So, you know, I think obviously a lot of people assume with, you know, your own story and your relationships that was kind of the driver of you being interested in hosting the show. But maybe that's not the case. How
17:22 How did you get into hosting the show? And what was the reason you were so passionate about this project? Well, Jason Sarlanez, who's the president of the network, and I have known each other forever. He was actually a producer when I was 21 of a show I did on E. And I had just come from a hard news background at Current TV. So he knew that that was my jam. Like I was doing entertainment reporting, but my passion has always been really hard news. And so when I went through my divorce, I really became hyperfixated on focusing on, you know,
17:58 patterns and therapy, right? Like when you're going through any sort of challenge, you just throw yourself into therapy. I think that's the healthiest thing to do. And in that process, I really became interested in family patterns and generational patterns and what makes people show up the way they do in a relationship and how I can optimize that for my own children. Yeah. And so that really led down this path of almost an obsession with figuring out how to have healthy relationships and to ensure that my children do as well. And Jason and I had to stay it in touch and he was basically like, this is a show. This is,
18:36 this neat. What is more relatable, right, than relationships and people have been in toxic ones. I don't know a single person who can say I've never been in a toxic relationship on some level. So he's had, you know, this vision, and he's so talented and I was honored. And we really, I mean, this is my, it's my baby. I feel like we're, you know, it's entertaining and it's also hopefully helping people. I'm curious because kind of to your point, everyone says they've been in a toxic relationship. You know, in 2026, the internet has diluted the meaning of words, so to speak, across the board. You know, the first episode of toxic, you know, the prime suspect, let's call them. I mean, this was obviously a very dark and dangerous situation. This seemed like a very terrible man and obviously
19:20 like, okay, yeah, that's toxic. How do you define toxic relationships? I imagine it's some kind of spectrum, but like how does, you know, like for example, the 18 and 19 year old couple that's in their first relationship and they, you know, they realize after the honeymoon phase is over, they're fighting all the time and they break up and get back together and like we label that toxic compared to, you know, some of these more serious situations where, you know, some people are truly in a dangerous situation and have a very difficult time getting out of these situations. So is it across the board or how do you, the host of the show, kind of define toxic relationship? I mean, usually when it gets to one of our episodes, this person has been toxic for many,
20:03 many relationships in many iterations. And there are many victims, not always just their partner, As we see in season two, this behavior starts, you know, people don't just become abusive when they get into their first relationship. This abuse often starts with someone's mother, their sister. That's why I know everyone always says it's important to look at how someone treats their mother, but it is very true. I mean, these perpetrators don't just flip a switch because they are in a romantic relationship. And yes, of course, there's a spectrum of toxicity. And we shed light on the most extreme versions of that. but there are so many things to look for.
20:44 And to your question earlier, you know, every relationship has imbalance, right? Someone's going to be more financially successful. Someone's going to be more physically better looking. Maybe someone's more socially adept. Like there's always imbalance in relationships, but the toxicity happens when one of those imbalances is weaponized. So I think that's something that's really, really interesting to look at. And we really explored those themes in season one.
21:09 and then really just looking at different types of abuse, right? I mean, isolation, coercion, control, all of those things. We know our friends who become boyfriend sick, and that's one thing. But when they can remain isolated and away from their friends, red flags, red flags, again, financial abuse, emotional abuse, spiritual abuse, people really like using spiritual beliefs under, you know, as the black and white only ways to live. And we see that a lot in season two with that abuse of power. So there are so many different types of abuse, so many different types of micro-toxicities that we can look for. You know, like if somebody really loves cooking and it's really important to them.
21:50 And every day when they give their partner dinner, they have something to say about it that's not necessarily positive. I mean, that's a red flag. There's so many red flags and there's so many signs when we know what to look for. How, you know, intoxic, you know, that you talk to friends and things like that. And it's like a tale as all this time. You know, the friends don't like someone's partner. You get warning flags. And then the person dating that person kind of ignores them.
22:15 Have you learned through doing this show or just through your own experiences? What's the best way to communicate to a friend that you think is dating someone toxic and not good for them in a way that you think they will actually hear you? I mean, that's really difficult, right? We all have been there. And we've all been probably on one side of that. When you break up and everyone's like, oh, my God, he was the worst. And you're like, thank you for telling me now. But let's be really like nobody would have listened if you told them sooner.
22:41 I think it's really helpful to give examples of what specifically you notice and what has changed and why maybe they're not their best selves. Right. Like anybody wants to, you're going to be defensive no matter what if somebody doesn't like the person that you're dating, especially if it's those first three months of the honeymoon period. Like you can't tell anyone anything during that time. But again, show them clips of our show where we lay it out there because we know in every single one of these tragedies there was a honeymoon period. Without the honeymoon period, you wouldn't be there. Like, right?
23:16 So that's the good, juicy, juicy part that ends up one way or another. So I think giving hard, like specific examples of what you've noticed and maybe how they've changed and aren't maybe their best selves or maybe they're losing focus on things that were really important to them. At the end of the day, it's like overcompromise is a really strong theme as well when someone's just completely changing themselves for a partner. That's such a right flag. So just, I think, pointing out specific examples. So I have a question regarding like the levels of toxicity because like some toxicity can almost be derived from just like insecurity that people are trying to like figure out themselves and like it's not, it doesn't get to that like abusive
23:57 point. So like when would you say is like you have to pull the plug at this point? Because Like there are certain things early on that like maybe you can like overcome and work through together and you can go from maybe slightly toxic to maybe that you grow together. Yeah. Like for example, like you date someone and maybe they're the person you're dating their past partner cheated on them. So maybe early in their relationship, they're a little, you know, they're a little like not just, you know, they have trust issues.
24:23 Yeah, they have trust issues. They're like, they're a little too like, so where are you going? A little, you know, they're giving kind of controlling vibes, but maybe that's coming from place of insecurity and like how can you figure out whether this is something you can work through or this is like a red flag that's only going to get worse going forward. I love that question so much because a lot of us are carrying our own trauma, right? And it might not even be childhood trauma, just form a relationship trauma or previous trauma. And I think it's just communication, right? Everything is communication and the way you communicate, the way you share your feelings. Like not why are you
24:56 controlling me, but it makes me feel X, Y, and Z is always a really good. good place to start. And then finding out more about their previous relationships. Like that is a great indicator. Every single one of someone's ex is a psycho, then, you know, consider the source. So how they speak about exes, how they speak about past relationships, how they speak about their mom, their sister, and, you know, understanding where they're coming from and where your relationship is in that context, but also just asking them and communicating. Like everyone who, the people I have data post-divorce know that, like, I have crazy trust issues. But they wouldn't know that without having those conversations. What did the people that you spoke to say that finally, like, helped
25:43 them leave these relationships? I mean, we know the statistics. It takes seven times of leaving an abusive relationship before someone actually does. And often when there has been strangulation involved, that is the next step before typically death. And so I think knowing those statistics being very aware, if someone puts their hands around your neck, and again, we see this in season two, that's typically the next step is homicide. And so, yeah, that's why the law takes strangulation seriously and they should take it more seriously, depending on the state. But knowing the statistics of seven times before you actually leave. It just shows how hard it is to get out of a relationship.
26:30 It's hard to get out of a healthy relationship. Like, we know that. You know, you have the highlight reel in your head. You replay the good parts, the good sex, the magic moments. And that's hard enough in a healthy relationship or get toxic ones where you're being completely manipulated. Do you have any advice for anyone in toxic relationships maintaining their sense of self? I think you have to check in with your people.
26:55 The people have known you and been there forever. Regardless of your relationship with your family, your friends, like the people who know who you are at your core, you know, relationships are interesting because you're bringing in somebody, you're bringing someone into the fold that is new. And when that person tries to remove you from your circle, that's when you should be concerned. So I would say, you know, check it. Like my sister would be the first to tell me if I were not in a good place or with somebody who she thought was a healthy choice for me. Check in with your people. Maintain yourself,
27:32 your interests, you know, your priorities and your goals. Obviously there's a lot of people who leave relationships like they struggle with, you know, perception. How are they going to tell people? Things like that.
27:44 I'm curious if someone like yourself who had to go through a very public breakup with your ex-partner and obviously they're, are so many opinions on the internet, how did you handle dealing with that? And I guess what advice would you give to people, you know, when you're trying to convince them to leave a relationship who are just worried about what everyone might say about their experience, what would you say to them? I mean, at the end of the day, you know this. Like, what is on the internet is noise and you can pay attention to it or you cannot? And at the end of the day, like, I am only concerned about what is happening in my little sphere. Everything else. I don't know. Like, take it or leave it
28:21 it won't be in the new cycle, you know, in a couple days anyway. But I would say just do what's best for you and your family and do it's best for, again, like, where, what do you want in this life? And it's not dependent on a person, right? Like I always say, like, focus on your goals, focus on the people that matter. And if one person that comes in, comes in and shakes all of that up, that's typically problematic. What is some things that if you have a friend in a toxic relationship to try to get them to leave? What are some things you can help them do and say to them? It's really hard and we all know that.
28:56 Like, right? I think we can all come up with at least one to three people. You're like, she's being controlled. Yes, exactly. So that's a really, really good question. Helping them find financial freedom and making sure that they are, I mean, I'm speaking from experience because I have a few friends that, you know,
29:14 wouldn't even consider, but it's almost maintaining it as well as you can. like if you don't have a friend who will leave it, a toxic relationship, giving them advice and maybe helping them have that financial freedom, more boundaries in place, just like small little things because unfortunately it's not a switch that can be flipped with people. They have to see the light for themselves. I also feel like, I mean, just like being, you know, picking up the phone when they call and kind of just being that person that said they don't feel isolated and they don't get pulled
29:51 out from their people and just kind of like, even though it's probably so frustrating and stressful to like hear the, you know, you just get so mad at them. You're like, girl, I have heard this a million times. You've got to leave. It's just like you have to stay and listen to it because if they don't have you, then it's. I agree. And I also think not, you don't want to be dramatic, but honestly, filing reports. This is so important. And we see this and toxic. It's like everyone's that I didn't think it could happen. I never thought in a million. Of course you don't.
30:20 But guess what? All the signs are there and you don't want your friend dead. And so, like, you is not a big, it's not being overly dramatic if you say, I'm, you know, I think you need to file a report about this. I think, like, get law enforcement involved as soon as possible and also keep records of things. I always, always, always say, like, no, the justice system is not necessarily always justice. It's simply a system that we hope for the.
30:47 best at times, but we have to be advocates for ourselves and for our loved ones by keeping these records, by filing reports when something happens because this never gets better. In domestic violence and abusive relationships, it does not get better. And that is the hardest pill for, you know, a survivor or someone who's in it to swallow. Like, they think it's going to get better. It doesn't. Like, statistically speaking, it only escalates. And the perpetrator only gets better. and better and more refined. And it's never going to end well. What are some green flags that you can tell people to look for when they leave a toxic relationship and they're finally in what feels like a good one? What are some green flags that they can kind of look for? Mutual respect for you
31:35 and where you are at that moment. Somebody who doesn't mirror you or try to, you know, all of a sudden become interested in what you're interested in. And I like that you asked about green flags. And I like that you ask about green flags because everyone always asks about red ones. Wait, that's really interesting what you just said regarding somebody who doesn't just pick up interest just because you're interested in. You're saying that would be a red flag if I start dating somebody and she's a DJ and now all of a sudden like I'm trying to DJ. That's a red flag.
32:03 Yes, Jimmy, that's a red flag. But what if you just started picking up? Well, I'm honestly, I'm honestly thinking about Bryce and Trinity from Love Island now how like Trinity was not a fan of house music and Bryce is a DJ and now she's like taking on house music with him and like, but that feels like just like they're supporting each other. I mean, there is a level of that. I'm talking about if you're on, you know, first, second date and say, I really love horseback riding. Me too. I love horseback riding too. Almost like in the beginning stages when they are mirroring your behavior to make sure they get in. Yeah. Or just like
32:36 they really want to ingratiate themselves into your life. I mean, typically that leads to like moving in too soon. And typically, you know, so I would say back to green flags, taking time. when it comes to cohabitating. I would say in almost every single case and episode, they've moved in within three months. And so, yeah, I think it's just, yes, it's interesting, it's supportive without losing identity is important. Yeah, that's a great example, Jimmy,
33:04 because that's the challenge when people listen to these conversations, right? Because you have a lot of young daters out there and relationships are hard and you're just trying to figure it out. But there is, like, there is so much nuance. and, you know, using Bryson Trinity's example of, there's a difference between being curious about someone trying to support them. But as Elizabeth pointed out,
33:23 and then we've all seen these people, right? You date them, and it's like they're like chameleons, right? There's a level of intensity almost where it's just like, you gave them an idea of something to try. And then they, you know, it's like they try to be your manager or they have an opinion about everything you're doing right or wrong. A week ago they didn't even know about horseback riding. And next thing you know,
33:44 they're just like, you know, sending you articles about like, you know, what you're doing wrong, you know, at practice and things like that. There's, you know, it's a, right? Am I saying? Totally. And I think we learn, like, in the love bombing, like all these terms that kind of came up during COVID that we don't really have names for them, right? It's so nice to have this language of mirroring, of love bombing, of a narcissism, which is, the term is thrown around like confetti, but really to see what actually make somebody a threat. covert versus overt narcissist or the different types of narcissism and generational trauma and parental alienation, all of these terms that I wasn't familiar with five years ago. I wasn't familiar
34:25 with them like, you know, three years ago. But I think the more language we have, the more helpful it is because we can kind of cut through that nuance. As someone who's like lived it and often often like experience these situations with some of the subjects you have in your show, I'm, I'm, I imagine you've also liked to talk to friends or acquaintances who have said, like, oh, I'm dating a narcissist or I'm being love bombed. Have you found situations where you've had to correct people where it's just like, no, you're not or no, that's not what this is? And how are you having those conversations? Well, the love bombing thing is so interesting because I am an admitted love bomber, right? Like, I love love and I love telling people how much I love them right away, like whether it's a friend or whatever.
35:14 And so I think you have to be able to identify the intention behind it. Right. And so everyone's like, it makes me feel so good when you say this, which is nice, but I'm not doing it with any expectation in return or like any plan in place. And so with love bombing, that is like a gray area one kind of. I think, yes. And to your point, I have corrected people who have called their partners or former partners narcissist because you really do have. have to look at the diagnosis for a narcissist. And I learned a lot, again, doing toxic and the difference between narcissists. You know, an overt narcissist needs to be the life of the party is
35:56 always very outspoken, is very obviously, obviously wants to be the center of attention. Where a covert narcissist typically likes to have everything look perfect and in place and then has typically like their one partner who they're really unkind to and take it sit all out on. But everyone else in society thinks they are perfect and that your family's perfect and that, you know, they're everything and they do things for other people, just not typically for their partner. So like really reading up on the different types of narcissism is helpful. But I do think, you know, yes, it's helpful to have this language, but it is definitely overused. And we have to be careful with, I guess, the exact definitions and then the exact situation.
36:38 Was there a particular subject over the two seasons of doing this that really blew your mind over of the others? I mean, every single episode is just, especially this season, we level up in every way. Every episode has really blown my mind in a different way, especially episode one of the season where we examine, we see that this abuse started with his sister and seeing that these abusive men often sexually and physically abused their sisters first and their moms. And then the role gender role reversal. We have two male victims this season, which is really interesting because, especially when children are involved, typically, you know, court sides with women and, and it's hard. I mean, there's shame associated with anyone who's a survivor. Nobody wants to be a victim.
37:32 Nobody, I don't, very few people want to choose that path in life, right? And it's particularly difficult, I think, for men to come forward and say that they've been physically abused. Are the warning signs different between male victims and female victims in domestic situations? That's a really good question. I think the warning signs might be more covert with a female perpetrator, more kind of behind the scenes and not, obviously not as physical typically. Like, it is more psychological leading up to the physical act. A lot of like research and And yeah, I think it's more mental, emotional abuse before it reaches to the physical point, typically with female perpetrators.
38:20 What's the best advice do you have for parents out there who have kids with a toxic X? And, you know, I talk to a lot of, you know, mostly moms who are trying to co-parent with a partner that's not easy to co-parent with. What's advice do you have for them and the best way to navigate? that situation. I honestly think looking at your own shit first is so important. Like you have to do the work and see what am I bringing to this, you know, it's our first job being parent, time being parents. This is our, it's all of our first and only rodeo, right? And we often only know what we experienced with our parents. I mean, and what we see on TV, like we don't really know what's normal, like what is healthy, what is normal? And unless you had that example, sometimes you have to figure that
39:09 out. So I would say therapy and figuring out like what you are bringing as a parent from your childhood, from your past. And then if there's another partner that you can't control because we can't control other people, right? It's just being the best partner you can or the best parent you can to your children. I mean, it's really difficult to try to take responsibility for someone else's actions and behavior. Somebody won't change just because you're asking them to. So no matter what the other parent is doing, I would just say be the best parent you can be, be the safe space, be the communicative space, be the informed space. And then make sure that your kids are in therapy if they're experiencing an unhealthy parent. Yeah, I guess that was my next question. How do you,
39:53 how do you speak to your kids in these situations when you're trying to manage, you know, the truth versus like making sure they have a positive image of their, of their parent, you know, like that must be a real, real struggle for a lot of people. It is. And at the end of the day, like, I do think everyone should think that, you know, their parents are incredible, like you, especially when they're younger. And it's, it's really addressing things at different stages when they're age appropriate. And as long as they have parents that truly and deeply love them that wouldn't ever hurt them and what's best for them, I, you know, then at the end of the day, everything else can hopefully just be someone else's
40:32 shit. Like, that's you. That's on you. Just love your, children be the best example that they can have and parent to the best of your ability. But put them first. I mean, that's the number one rule is putting your kids before yourself and putting your kids before any feelings you have towards your ex. Because that's all that matters. Like, they didn't ask for this. But what about those kids whose parents who are like, you know, the children of parents who have toxic relationships that, like they see that in the household and that's almost normalized to them? Like, we talk about this here often how like sometimes those are the ones who fall victim to the manosphere. They end up subscribing to beliefs that
41:08 aren't necessarily the healthiest going about life. Are they, like, is there any hope for salvaging, you know, like a healthy life or sustaining a relationship for them in the future? Like, I know they're probably not listening to this, but like, how do we, how do those kids? Yeah, that's a really good question. And that's, I think, the only way that they're going to find their way is if somebody in their life really points things out, right? Like an uncle or auntie steps in or something? Or like, yeah, God parent, anything. Like, you don't know what you don't know.
41:38 And I think hopefully now we're all having these conversations enough that we can identify when maybe some that we care about isn't putting their children first because that is, you know, that is it. There's this amazing book called The Beauty of What Remains. It's by Rabbi Stephen Leader. And he says, we always think it's like bringing, bringing ourselves and bringing enough to the next generation. But it's actually about removing what doesn't serve them and what no longer. serves us. And I love that, that image of removing that. And so I do think it's great that we're having these conversations. Our parents weren't having these conversations. Our grandparents were brushing everything under the rug and pretending like things were perfect. So just by talking about it and
42:19 having the information we have available, I think it's a great start. But you're right. I mean, you can look at a lot of this behavior exactly the examples that you gave and understand what kind of childhood somebody probably had. So like something that I see a lot in younger relationships. relationships, but obviously it goes throughout. Do you think it's dangerous for people to fall in love with the potential of someone? Because I feel like I have friends, especially younger, that are like, yeah, like he's super stressed or he's super this. I'm unhappy in this relationship. But once this happens, then everything is going to be better. And I'm like, but what if it's not? So I'm like, do you think it's dangerous for a person to fall in love with the potential of somebody versus like seeing them for who they are in this moment?
42:58 One million percent. I mean, words don't mean a thing unless you have the actions and those are healthy actions. And listen, I get, I see, we all see this is what you guys talk about. Like, we were raised to be Pick Me Girls with the, you know, Disney movies and 17 magazine telling us like how to get him to put a ring on it. You know, that we were taught to be a pick me girls. And this is about shifting, like our show is about shifting the conversation to I Pick You. Yeah. It's an audition. Yeah. So no, we're not going to be delusionally optimistic. We can be delusional optimistic about our career. we're not going to be delusually optimistic about a partner.
43:36 And when you have friends that say things like that, like, what's the best way to kind of communicate that with them? Because I don't want to be like, no, your opinion is wrong, but it's also kind of like, you're waiting for what? Right. I would say, that's why I think it's really important to, like, keep your options open because you just cling so tightly to one thing in hopes of this. And then you're also closing yourself off to meeting other people. Right. And that's why I don't think people should be so quick to jump into a relationship. And that's why I don't think, I mean, I'm a huge supporter of a roster. Like, I do think, sorry, this is not what I should be talking about right now.
44:10 But like, I do think that, like, we put so much pressure on one thing, hoping it's going to be something. And you can't fit a square peg into a round hole. And you shouldn't try to make something healthy when it's not. Well, I think that that's a great point, Elizabeth, because we, you know, it started at the beginning of the conversation. Like, the pace of a relationship really is very telling. and just, you know, a relationship that okay, that's okay with two people having a conversation saying, I'm really excited, this is great.
44:41 I wanna spend every night with you, but maybe we're going a little too fast. It's like healthy communication. I'm, piggybacking off a Sierra's question, what would you say about a couple who meets? And one of them is like reformed, right? Like maybe they got out of some intense therapy or like rehab of some kind,
45:03 And when you meet their partner, there is a level of intensity and excitement of the new person who they are trying to be or who they say they are. Would you say that is a positive thing or a potential big red flag? I think that is a proceed with caution. That's a pink flag for me. And I know a lot of those people in my life. And you have to take it with a grain of salt. It's, you know, of course, people are always changing and hopefully evolving and hopefully bettering themselves. But when it's a drastic moment or an event or, you know, they are really
45:42 excited to like go showboat this new version of themselves, that doesn't feel completely grounded in truth or tried and true and proven to me. I would imagine the pace would be really important in that situation. A hundred percent. The pace is always important. Like, and it's hard. I mean, my parents got married after three weeks of knowing each other. So we look at, that's again, there's always a gray area and they're still together. You know, I think that those, that's the tricky part where we're like, this is so obvious, this is so predictable, X, Y, and Z. But then there are those stories. And that's why it's easy to get into these abusive relationships, because there's always a way to talk yourself out of it. And there's always a way to justify something. And that's what,
46:27 And again, and you have the, because it is romantic and you love them and you want that and you have the physical aspect. That's what makes it so difficult and often how it gets to the point where it does and toxic. No. Well, trying to end things on a positive note. What are some positive things you've learned from hosting this show or maybe just some general relationship advice that you would give our audience before we let you go?
46:56 I mean, my favorite thing about the show is that people have come up to me and said, I got out of my toxic relationship because of you. My sister ended her relationship because of your show, not because of me, because of toxic. And I think it's really helpful to have examples laid out where you see the amazing honeymoon stage. And then you see the devolution into like how it finally ends up. And so having these examples instead of just telling people what can happen has been really powerful. Like a woman came up to me in Target last week and said that she left her husband of 25 years because she noticed the patterns on toxic. My makeup artist said her 12-year-old daughter was talking to her friends about how boys on Snap were being toxic and watched the show.
47:42 My daughter's 11-year-old friends watched the show and I hope and I believe that they will be better at identifying toxic behavior because they've been informed in a way that we weren't. at their ages. You know, I don't necessarily recommend 11-year-olds watching our show, but I think it's amazing that they're having these conversations and that toxic is really laying it out
48:07 for them in a way that's not, if you stay with this person, this could happen. It's actually, if you stay with this person and continue down this path, this has happened and statistically will happen. That's the power in our show. Elizabeth, it's a great show. It's streaming.
48:24 HBO Max for anyone interested. Everyone who listens to this show, I promise you, you'll be interested in the show Toxic. It's got a very true crime element to it. It obviously, you know, dives into these types of relationships. It's really fascinating. So thanks for bringing it to us, Elizabeth, and thanks for coming on. Perfect. And we're on ID, so Toxic on ID, and then we also are streaming on HV. Max. Period. All right. Thank you. You're the best. Come back soon. I would love to. Yeah, that was, it was fascinating stuff, Elizabeth. We appreciate you. Everyone go toxic. Yes, please. Thank you guys. Thanks. Thank you. All right. Bye.
49:00 All right. Well, it's Secret Lives of Mormon Wise Time. They're back on the air. How do we feel about this? Or what? They should have kept this hoe in the can. What are the streets saying about this season? It feels like it's 10 years behind. I feel like we have all lived so many lives since this has happened that I'm watching it. And I'm like, this is actually the oldest show known to Man. the jump scare I had seeing Jesse holding hands with Jordan. I was like, what here is this? Wild.
49:30 Is this a flashback? I have a question. So I haven't seen the previous seasons. Yeah. And it sounds like a lot of the cast members, like who was it, Whitney and Jen, they did dancing with the stars. Like they're popping in their own right. Why does this feel like the Taylor Frankie Paul show?
49:46 Well, it always was. Like, why is she the main character? Like, it's a complicated answer. Yeah. Yeah. The swinging scandal blew up. mom talk into a whole other like level of being viral. And then they made the show about it, but it was basically about Taylor,
50:02 supposed to be about Taylor talking about the swinging thing. And then we just ended up with mom talk. And she just kind of leads the pack. I don't really know why though, because it kind of does seem like Macy and there's, and Jesse. People seem more interesting to me. You know what I mean? Or like seem like they're kind of more of like a leadership role.
50:18 But it's yeah, whatever Taylor says goes. She's the biggest personality. And to Sierra's point, again, the show got started. because there was this like literal mom talk. There was this thing. It's not like, it didn't get caused by the show. Mom talk existed. And Taylor was at the center of it.
50:34 And it was, again, the swinging scandal. And this took over TikTok. And there were rumors that these women were like filming a show. And then like everyone kind of forgot about it. But like, yeah, they literally made a show based off of these moms in Utah, you know, who are mostly Mormon and, you know, making a living off a TikTok and then sent it around the swinging scandal. So when the show premiered, it was. centered around this scandal. And she is easily the biggest personality. And she's an amazing
51:00 radio TV star because she just kind of shoots from the hip and she has no filter and she goes for it. And it is actually captivating television. Obviously, it's gone down a path of darker topics and things like that. And since then, obviously these women, the rest of the cast, have kind of found their voices and their personalities and we've gotten to know them. But like, you know, Taylor is and has always been the star of the show and she is the biggest personality and it's just you know that that's to answer your question of why she's the focal point okay so she empowered her teammates though or her teammates found ways to empower themselves around her star power yeah why is jen the one seemingly in trouble uh when it comes to the whitney and and jen feud because like they reminded like when they showed the
51:47 clip of of whitney laughing at jen going home it seems like shouldn't jen have the right to be more mad, but it seems like Whitney's mad at Jen for Zach or something like that. Is anyone else confused about that? I wasn't confused. I just kind of feel like last season, right, they get into that argument about a lack of support for Whitney getting Chicago. But the way that it ended was Jen pretty much saying that like they were never friends. She was never there for her, right?
52:13 And then we come back into this season and she's acting like, oh, I'm going to go to the show or oh, I'm going to go do this. And it's just kind of like she makes really, really strong. accusations against her castmates about how they're not there for her, that she has no support. And then like the next season she acts like it doesn't happen or it's somebody else. Because I feel like this season it was her husband. Yeah.
52:34 I mean, listen, I'm, particularly this. It's just like they're part of a group. They're all going to support. And it sounds like she's trying to be the bigger person. And again, she got laughed at by her peer for being eliminated. Did she get laughed at or was Whitney just happy she didn't get eliminated? I don't know. When you play it back, she catches herself. In this particular situation, I understand, like, Jen wanting to just go with the group and just like be the bigger person. I don't think is that. I don't, why do you have to defend that? Because I feel like Jen's kind of picking and choosing, right? You're claiming that you want to be back with the group, but then it's like, oh, but I won't film a TikTok with you guys because I don't want to be fake. I'll show up for this. I'm going to show up for New York, but I'm not going to call Whitney and apologize or try to make sure that we're on good terms. Again, what does she have to apologize? for the last time they were on camera together and last time they were in person together she told her
53:26 that they weren't friends and like pretty much that she to fuck off so yeah when you're gonna all of a sudden go with the group to show up to new york to support me but you've never actually reached out to me or cleared the air from past grievances it's kind of a weird it's definitely weird to hear that she's coming to her opening night like from the other girls like it is weird that jen wouldn't have called her and been like hey i know we ended things on like weird, you know, but, but like, I'd love to come and support you and maybe turn a new leaf. Like, that's how that conversation should have gone. I sure, but did they ever address the fact that, like, when you laughed at her being
54:06 eliminated? If she really did laugh at her being eliminated, that is a bad fucking friend. So then I get her being pissed about that. Whitney basically said in her confessional that she was just relieved that was anyone but her, she would have, like, smiled if it was anyone. And she goes, but I didn't hate that it was Jen. So she kind of made a joke about it as well. That felt like production be like
54:24 But like you were probably okay with it being Right? Like I don't know Maybe I'm misreading that situation I just don't think Jen tagging along with her castmates Is like something That's why she went. I don't know.
54:38 And again like it's Chicago It's an audience of hundreds of people If Whitney doesn't, you know Want her to be there she doesn't you know It's open to the public I don't know I just I personally feel like this was a rough season For Jen even though it's five episodes I just kind of feel like every episode
54:53 she had something with someone, but like she doesn't really have support. She's not really showing up for people. The one person that is supporting her, I feel like fully in everything that she decides she wants to do is her husband. And she also threw her husband under the bus saying that he does the bare minimum. So you know what I mean?
55:10 Like why are you showing up for somebody's opening day if you don't even like them or if you don't fuck with them? I'm not showing up to something like my ops opening night after not talking to them being like, hey, I supported because I showed up with my group of, friends, but I'm not really here to support you. It's a weird move. No, I hear you there. I mean, well, and my Jen hot take is that the, that she is, it's, it seems honestly sad because it, it seems like Jen is throwing her marriage away over a TV show. I think she's competing with a lot
55:37 of the other women. She did it with Demi. She's done it, uh, I think with a lot of the women. And I feel like right now, she kind of has like a silent competition with Whitney. She didn't like the fact of the whole dancing with the stars thing. And now, you know, you're seeing Whitney's career pop and you're seeing Jen get upset because she didn't get an audition that she went out for, so and said she takes it out on her husband and says that he's not doing anything for her. You know, Zach looks like a TV villain. He looks like a Disney villain. And I think, you know, the audiences never liked him. He's obviously, for the first season, he looked terrible. We've had Zach on the show. We've met Zach. We saw him at Dancing with the
56:13 stars. I don't, you know, I can't vouch for the guy, but my interactions with him, especially compared to some of the other men on this show, he doesn't seem like a lot of all that bad of a guy. Again, I could be wrong. I don't know what's going on behind closed doors with these people, but the Zach, I have met briefly, you know, he seems like he is a supportive husband. He quit med school to, like, support her career. And I think, and it just seems like Jen just reads all the negative things about him and, like, takes it as truth. And I feel like she is, I don't know, it's just like, I think she's using her marriage. And it's, it seems really sad because it ultimately seems like he's trying his best, but like when the internet talks their shit
56:55 about Zach, it seems like she believes the internet's opinion about her husband more than she believes her own. It also feels like she kind of tries to set him up, like, on the show where the whole Sports Illustrated thing, it's like that clearly was a conversation off camera that y'all had, that like he was, he expressed that he, you know, and he also clearly didn't really know what it was because Sports Illustrated has very much changed and it is not. what it, I guess, once was where he, like, thinks it's just, I don't know, topless old men, like a, like a...
57:27 Topless old men? No, no, no, no, sorry. Well, maybe, I don't know. No, topless women that, like, old men, like, keep in their bathroom type of thing. Like, it's not a playboy anymore. It's just a very, like, it is a very women empowerment. Whatever. And, but that clearly was a conversation they had off camera.
57:44 And then he, she brought it to camera randomly out of nowhere. and he, like, was forced to say, like, yeah, I don't. I feel weird about it. Yeah. And that's what I'm saying. I think it's unfortunate and, like, I hate that he has those boundaries, but, like, those are his boundaries. And, like, in a healthy relationship, you got to meet somewhere in the middle, like,
58:03 in a perfect world. Like, yeah, he's cool with it. He champions her on her journey in acting and with Sports Illustrated. But, like, he's not cool with it. Also, like, these people are Mormon. So, like, they are a little more traditional in their beliefs and their values. So, like, I think it'd be. In Jen's eyes, like, in a perfect world, she would want that support.
58:22 But like, that's his boundary. So, like, you either got to choose, am I going to make this work or am I going to be independent, grow my career? Mind you, season one, she was, the one that was named being two Mormon, was wearing the undergarments, was very much professing that she is, like, the perfect, well-rounded Mormon, example of what a Mormon woman should be. She flipped the script? So then to fast forward five seasons later, and it's like you're pigeonholing him in the idea of, him being wrong or to Natalie's point setting him up with, oh, I want to be on the cover of a magazine in a swimsuit. Oh, I want to make out with random co-stars, whatever else. I'm not saying that's why
58:58 she wants to do any of that. But I'm like, it's not crazy that he's like, hey, like, I've compromised, I've moved, I've moved from my friends, my family, I gave up med school so that you can pursue your dreams. And for me to have a couple of boundaries when it comes to you being involved with other men, I also don't think that that's so crazy, like where I'm just like from where you guys started in the marriage that you signed up for to where you guys are at now, like it's a polar opposite and you're kind of making him. And he is the one that's bending and compromising. And you're making him look like an asshole for not going along with everything you want to do.
59:31 Do you think there's a world where Jen in conversations with Zach not filming has threatened audience opinion against him? You know, it's just like in a fight, like pointed out, well, the audience is going to think this about you and yada, yada, yada. And like, well, people think this about you. And do you think she's done that? 100%. I honestly think it's refreshing. 100%.
59:55 But it is kind of interesting seeing how much the cast does talk about audience perception, especially this season. But yeah, I'm like, they're all hyper aware of how they're going to appear or what they're going to do. I used to say when Jen was having a terrible time in social media, like with her audience, all she has to do is take off her ring. And then all of a sudden, everyone's like, yes, you left Zach. And like, that builds up her engagement.
01:00:18 She knows exactly what she's doing because she does it every year. It's like, oh, couple well-planned. I don't know what's going on. And then everyone's like, oh, team Jen, team Jen, because she left Zach. And then it's like, well, who do you think's helping Jen move from Utah to Orange County? Like, it's not her. You know how toxic that is if that's true? I mean, just look at the pattern of it, though, that I'm just like all of a sudden,
01:00:40 it's like she's not filming with her castmates. She knows what it looks like. And they talked about it on the show this season when one of them isn't in a video that all of them are in or when it's a group. upsetting, they know that that's going to be the one person that they're going to pick and be like, hey, where's Jen? Where's Jen? Why are you guys bullying Jen? They know exactly what they're doing when they're playing with the audience, in my opinion. What did y'all think of Taylor being like, I am engaged to Doug. I also did cheat on Doug with Dakota last night, but I am in love with Ben.
01:01:11 So it was crazy. outside of the cheating on Doug with Dakota, not to be a Taylor-Frank-Ponologist, but I feel like she's still, there's no separation between church and state, so to speak, between like filming in real life. And when you're like, you know, the bachelor is a show where you're like,
01:01:35 you have, you know, 25, 30 men, you're given this permission to date multiple people. Again, if we remember how it went, you know, going into her season, they were putting her in situations with Dakota, not again prepping her for like, you know, emotionally preparing herself for the experience of the Bachelorette. We know that after filming,
01:01:55 they put her in a scene with Dakota. They put her in a scene with this Ben guy before filming, you know, and things like that. So if in your mind, if you're Taylor, Frankie Paul, it's just like all these men are still an option and she's still filming. Just from strictly looking at like how Bachelor Nation will like, their expectations of how they expect the lead to,
01:02:17 to pick one and focus on a relationship. I just feel like she never had a true Bachelorette experience. So, you know, strictly looking at how Bachelor Nation views it, I'm just not surprised. She's in the situation. She's still filming the show in a way. And there's no like, there's no like, oh, we're done. This is the relationship you should focus on.
01:02:41 It's just more like, like, just bring. bring on another guy. How do you feel about him? You know, it's just, I imagine that would be a very difficult thing to navigate. I think she's still in character. Yeah, no, literally. I think she's, when is she ever like get to break character? When is it like, when you film the bash rat, there's a clear like, all right, we're done filming, decompress. All right, you're in this relationship. But I don't think it's a character. Taylor, Frankie Paul, going on national television and saying, I'm engaged to Doug. I cheated on him with my toxic ex-boyfriend, but I'm in love with this random guy from TikTok Ben that y'all met last season.
01:03:13 Like that is Taylor Frankie Paul. That is her, that's not her character. Like that's her being her. No, I know. But I just, she doesn't know how to turn off. Yeah. No, that's fair.
01:03:23 But I just don't, I still think she's being putting in situations that she's definitely going to- 100% production last season could have been like, hey, and we talked about this at great lengths of how they, like her going on the Bachelorette, they did not protect that at all. I mean, they 100% could have been like,
01:03:38 girl, you were not about to bring this Ben guy on, the show when you're about to be The Bachelorette. You can do that in your own time. But they didn't and they platformed it and they let everyone in on that like blimp of a relationship. I'm also just kind of confused watching it. It's just like when
01:03:54 when the Dakota stuff come out, you know, like where are we in the like to, you know what I'm saying? No, I think we're going to get to it. Yeah. They're kind of like insinuated it's coming up. Which is crazy because like this, this is how she was moving before the show was canceled.
01:04:11 Yeah, which is crazy. It's a rough watch, especially the first episode, seeing like, her and Dakota going at it. It's just kind of like, you know, you just think about all the stuff that you know is going to happen. And it's just, we're not, it's not normal, right? For reality television, for us to already know what's coming next. But it's also kind of like, then you're like, why is this guy even on the show anymore? The fact that we're just watching this toxic fight going off in the first episode, you know, to the last one where they're like hugging and leaving. and we know that all this stuff is going to happen.
01:04:42 I just... Well, that's good TV, though. Yeah, but it's just so dark. Maybe good is the wrong word, but like compelling. Like, I actually had to catch myself. My jaw was like, like, watching this shit. When he was saying that he was like sending her videos of them being intimate or whatever, being like, oh, I got her right where I want her.
01:05:00 Like, I'm just like, all of this conversation and who he is as a person is just sickening. And like, I feel terrible about the relationship that they're in. But I'm just kind of like there is a part. of me morale, like morals-wise, that's just kind of like, this woman is so fragile. You guys just got her off of The Bachelorette and then watching all of these dynamics. Like, I feel like we should have pressed pause a little earlier. Yeah, but it's like, well, we still have to get season five in the can, so let's do our pickups, you know?
01:05:27 You know. But isn't that the hurdle with like watching reality TV? Like, like, it's morally conflicting, like, knowing that like these people are probably not like going about things the right way, but like that's what makes for good TV. Like the Dakota thing, he literally told his boy, like, you want to spice things up in the bedroom, try being toxic for a couple months. Like, that's fucked up. Crazy. The fact that he, like, got paid for this season after all of the stuff that he has done, like, it makes me so sick.
01:05:56 There was a really interesting article that had a debate should these men be de-platformed by Bravo, men like Dakota, men like, you know, Charlie Zocor, for example, on Next Gen NYC. but the article said no because Bravo showcases them both as abusive and as deeply pathetic human beings and seeing them reap what they sow is deeply enjoyable to watch so it's like important
01:06:17 to platform these men still So they're arguing that we should keep them on because they'll like they'll eventually have to pay the consequences right and then these are like real men that are doing real things
01:06:28 and we should see kind of the consequences of their actions and just see these real men's behavior how do we feel about that I don't think we should keep them on for that reason. I think we should keep them on because you need villains in reality TV and they help make like the stars look good. But regardless in today's society, like, if you platform anybody, there's going to be a sector of the internet or a corner of like social media that, like,
01:06:49 champions that. I'm with Jimmy. I think, I think you have to keep them on for TV purposes. I think that sometimes the, you know, this whole like the whole conversation about like if you don't like someone or something they say, you should de-platform them in that premise, I think is obviously a little silly and leads into like cancel culture. But I feel like this is the audience trying to justify enjoying watching these characters on TV and then finding a way to like feel good about it. Because what I think is silly about that article, none of these men are learning a lesson. Look at Jacks Taylor, for example. I don't know if the article referenced Jacks Taylor. But like what is, what is he learned? Has he like, has he ever had a moment where he's like,
01:07:28 I'm going to change now? Like I've seen the errors of my ways. No. Like he's had multiple opportunities, countless second chances. And he's still ruined that. But within all those second chances, he's made hundreds of thousands of not millions of dollars. He keeps getting shows and opportunities. Where at what point are these people going to actually learn? You know what I'm saying? Like, because they can do the thing that everyone else does in this world. Because how do you separate, like, hate, right? Like you can be a decent person and a good person. You can go on these shows and you can get a bad at it. Or you can just kind of make a mistake and say something that, like, I don't know, maybe didn't quite land.
01:08:06 And the intensity in the amount of internet hate is going to probably be the same as the Jacks Taylor and these people who are actually doing terrible things. You know what I'm saying? How is that person supposed to know the difference between I actually did something wrong? Because like, what do all reality TV stars
01:08:21 tell each other to kind of support each other? It's just like, ignore the haters. Get offline. It's not real. It's just bullshit. You know, you're just doing a job. Well, that's why I feel like they need to be deplatformed because they need all of that taken away
01:08:34 from them. Listen, if you want a D-platform for the behavior, I'm all for that. And people like Jacks Taylor, like, I don't think they deserve all the second chances. I'm just saying this argument was basically saying, oh, we should let them on because we're teaching them a lesson. You know, we're going to show them how bad they are. And like the article also argues that if Bravo did fire these men, another kind of dupe, a Manosphere dupe, a Jack's dupe would just pop up and take its place. You know what I mean? Like, they're always just going to be there. So it's like, why take them off? Why not just see their actions and see what? But like, let's just not pretend that Bravo is looking for these types of men. Also, I don't think that all of the men who have
01:09:10 been portrayed as toxic men are all as bad as they come across. I think this is something that Bravo leans into. Almost all of their men are incredibly portrayed as toxic. And I think a lot of them are shitty. And then you have, like, we've talked about this over and over over the years, but like, you know, the Vanderpump throwing the drink in people's faces. I'm willing, I would, I would bet largest sums of money that at least one of those drink throws, was like a producer suggestion in someone being like, you know what, fuck it, I'll just do it for the plot. Like, can you do that again?
01:09:38 We missed that shot. Yeah, I mean, that 100% happens. And then there are real situations like a Jack Taylor where we're actually watching like potential like domestic issues and we're having conversations like, is this abuse? Is this not abuse? And like those are things where it's just like, we don't want to watch that on our TV show and why are we platforming this behavior?
01:09:59 And why are these shows and networks benefiting and making money off, of this type of behavior. I, you know, and I don't think we sit there and go, oh, well, we're teaching them a lesson. We're not teaching anyone a lesson. No one on reality TV who's a bad person who's ever learned has learned from internet hate. Because, again, like, good people get internet hate on reality TV. But I also think there's like a line and there's also two different types of toxic men on Bravo. There is the Dakota.
01:10:26 Well, I mean, it's not Bravo. Reality TV. Reality TV. There is the Dakota Mortensen. There is the Jacks Taylor. And then there's the West Wilson. that's like, you know, he's not really hurting anyone. He's not doing anything illegal, but it is like juicy TV stuff that we do want to watch. And like that, I think type of person doesn't need to be deplatformed. I think the Dakota and the Jacks, they don't deserve the second chances. And I don't think those men will be duplicated because they are, who they are is like that person to their core. And that's not someone who's like playing up to playing up a part. And that's not someone that they're going to be like, oh, we need to refill the Jack's Taylor shoes on. the valley. Yeah, like good reality TV is platforming normal bad behavior, a la like the West Wilson.
01:11:09 Again, not to say that West Wilson did nothing wrong or that he doesn't need to learn lessons or move differently, but a guy who's a fuck boy who's a bad communicator and is little loose with people's feelings, not okay, but that's like normal dating bad behavior that many of us who are good people have gotten things wrong, have had to apologize. And that makes good reality TV when you take relatable bad behavior and you put it on a TV show and it looks like really messy and then we can kind of demonize these people because like again we need our villains as opposed to people who are actually showing up in these screens and doing things we're like wait do we need to call child services like literally the fact that people were listening in on Dakota saying that like he's got these
01:11:54 videos of Taylor like like the fact that someone heard him say that and no one stepped in and they just like aired it like oh well that's crazy that's that's a line that's that's a line that i think they're crossing and the idea that like let's not dilute ourselves so much that we can watch these shows without guilt because like they're got these men are going to learn they're we're going to teach him a lesson that's you're fooling yourself what what is the dakota learned nothing dakota's learned that he can use taylor's moments as a way to elevate himself and you know he can he's learned how to blackmail her he's learned how to blackmail her he's learned how to how to use her.
01:12:31 He even said as much, yeah. He even said when they were having an argument, she's like, why do you keep coming back? He's like, because I know I can. You know, he was kind of just alluding to the fact that he's just been forgiven over and over and over. Yeah, like even like we've seen like the bravo, like the scant of all stuff. Like that was some fucked up shit that he did and he still ended up on traitors.
01:12:48 Like, you're, if you're, you make good TV, I guess. Yeah, but even the Tom Sandoval cheating on Ariana, I would, I would put that in the category of, of, of, normal bad like people cheat you know like it's it not okay that's why it was so big because it was still digestible we could still talk about it yes feelings were hurt but like is you know the the biggest victim in that story ariana has turned into a superstar over it like everyone's okay even tom sandival's okay and while you know he's been in the news recently with some
01:13:22 ugly behavior this was relatable you know we get someone on ask nick every week calling in with a story that's just like as juicy as Scandival. You know what I'm saying? That's different than, you know, the Tom Sandoval story with his current ex-girlfriend and we're getting accusations of abuse. So we're getting accusations of potential violence and things like that. I have no interest in that on my TV screen. And I'm just like, I don't, it's not fun to talk about, you know, like even, you know, Mormon wives. It's just like, okay, what do we want to talk about? What do we I want to talk about. It's, I want to argue over their soda.
01:13:56 I want them getting, I want them getting in a fight because so-and-so forgot, you know, what Jen's drink was. And she feels left out because, you know, because Macy remembered everyone else's soda drink and they didn't remember Jen's soda drink. We're watching Jen, like, read Reddit
01:14:11 and destroying her marriage. Self-sabotage. Self-sabotage, yeah. Well, I hear you on that line. I don't know if you want to continue this combo, but like I hear you on that being the line because it started with, Like, is Charlie, like, are we allow, should we allow him to stay on next-gen, NYC?
01:14:28 And I just think, yes, like, that is normal, bad behavior that makes the others around him look better. Yeah. They're not learning lessons. That's that much I know. Right. On a positive note, they are ending dad talk. Not soon enough, because they're still on our TV screen. Dad talk?
01:14:43 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the husbands of mom talk tried to, try to, thought, you know, thought the Internet cared about their dance moves in a way that they took very seriously. They did. They really did. And the internet said, the internet said, no, we're not interested.
01:14:57 I was going to say what? I just think nobody wants to be around Jordan or Dakota. Jace, Jacob, and Connor, I mean, like, the only good ones, then we have Chase and Mason, and, like, they're all just so bad that no one wants to film with them. No one wants to be around him. Chase will show up, like, whether he's invited or not, that's just what's so funny to me about him. And then for him to have the audacity to be like, it's because of me. If I didn't swing, you guys wouldn't have this show. Baby, you were not on the first season.
01:15:30 The second season. Yeah. Oh, these men. It's Chase the biggest clout chaser out of all of them, do you think? What? Oh, my God, yeah. I think so. I don't know, Chase and Jordan versus Jordan.
01:15:43 Oh, you're right. I was like, Jordan was the creator of Dad Talk. It didn't go well, but, like, he really tried. Chase is just so vocal about it. Chase is just so, like, y'all have. have this because of me, whereas Jordan is just, like, performative. And then what about Dakota, though? Dakota's, like, any chance that Taylor could move on or have some sort of success outside
01:16:03 of him being tied to it, he tries to ruin it. I feel like that's less clout, chasey and more like, I just need control of Taylor Frankie ball. Diabolical. Oh, you were saying Chase, not Jace. I got confused. Oh, my God. No.
01:16:15 I was like, why are we coming at Jace? Yeah, no, I would never. He can stay. You know, but at least Chase seems. seems like it's almost, it's like it's good, clean, messing. It's like, it's silly. I think Chase is a great content creator. Yeah.
01:16:31 Like, I think he knows how to make things go viral. I think he knows how to get a laugh and make fun of himself, even the showing up with Marciano places. Like, he knows how to get a headline on a reaction. But I'm like, I don't know that I need him on the cast of Secret Lives and Mormon Wives. I don't. No, we don't need him. But at least you see him and you're like, okay, he seems like you should be on reality TV.
01:16:48 I think with Jordan, we were just like, why the fuck are you here? Like, we don't, you know, it was like, you know. Well, he was icky and giving nothing, where I'm like, at least Chase is icky and giving you something. Yeah, and you're like, you know, you look at Chase and go, if I were drunk enough, he's hot. You know, it's just like. Is that what you think, Nick? Yeah. Speaking of the fact that they had these captions, I don't know who did this in production, but I applaud them.
01:17:11 But when Chase showed up at the bar with Marciano, it said Chase, soon to be Jesse's makeup buddy. And then Marciano, soon to be Jesse's friend with benefits. And I literally started laughing so hard. Jesse and Marciano are still going strong. Are they not? Yeah, they are. It's hard to watch this because she just is like, he's disgusting. He's crazy. He's like the, and I'm like, girl, I just watch your story and you love him. Yeah, Doth protest too much. Yeah, that's why I, that's why this, it just feels so old to me. It's so hard to watch. Well, I had to Google because I was like, when did Chase get his DUI? It was 4th of July weekend of last year. So I was just like, all right, strap in, baby, but we are going back in time.
01:17:54 I always have a problem, too, with the scenes where it's just like, there's a lot of this in the double live show. It's just like, I don't know what's going to happen when the people I don't want to find out are going to find out about this. And they're talking about it on a TV show. And then you have Miranda and Miranda being like, I don't like, my kids are going to find out about, you know, what am I going to do with my kids? And it's just like, and I get the sentiment, but like you're, I get it. You don't want your kids to find out. Why are you, why are you making a scene that's going to make it even easier for them someday to deal with this?
01:18:23 Because that feels easier for your kids to find than like some TikToks that went viral. Where is the line with these people on like, you know what? I'm not doing that because someday my kids are actually going to be old enough to see this shit. And how, you know what I'm saying? Like, why it's. I think that one's hard because they film so far in advance that I'm just like, I think in Miranda's mind that this, because it was probably everywhere in Utah and in her life,
01:18:47 she probably thought it was going to be a part of the show or a storyline. And then it's like, you talk about it. They're going to keep that one little bit in. But I'm like, yeah, I remember us talking about Chase's DUI when it happened. When that aired, completely have forgotten about it. So yeah, to your point, it's like you're reminding me that it happened also. But it's like, I think when they filmed it, it was such a big deal in her life that she was like, I got to get ahead of it.
01:19:09 I got to say something about it, make a comment. And then, of course, they keep that in. Then you're doing a scene with your partner and he's performing, you know, it's just like, when your kids do become aware of this, you would hope that they, you know, years later, dad's contrite, he's sorry, he's learned some lessons, and he can use his mistakes as a valuable opportunity to tell his kids what not to do, but they're going to go back and watch and he's going to be, you know, he's going to down, you know, it's like he's downplaying it. It's just like, I don't know. But to your previous point, talking about how aware they are about audience perception,
01:19:41 And it was like even the fight after I'm on the street with Taylor, Frankie Paul. When Jesse and Macy and Michaela get back in the car, Jesse's like, oh yeah, but you know they're going to cut it so that we're just the bad guys. So I'm like, I just think. Right. Like I think that they're constantly so aware that that's why I think Miranda felt the need to have a conversation and to do all of this. Obviously editing and how much later on it came out, they didn't have to keep that in there,
01:20:02 but they did. It gives Chase some part of a storyline to you, this reformed bad boy that just never gets it right, but lovable. And then it's like Miranda. and we'll always have this fuck up of an ex-husband. It's part of her storyline. So I'm just kind of like, I get it, but I just think it's just they're so aware
01:20:19 of what is going on around them that they just know that they need to say everything on camera so that it comes from their perspective. Unfortunately, it's like six, eight months too late. Yeah. All right, well, to wrap things up, we just have Ultimate Girl's Trip and some double lives of suburban wives,
01:20:34 not the secret lives, not to be confused with the Mormons. My favorite part of Ultimate Girl's trip was Vicki reminding us that, our bodies know when we travel. And, you know, if your body doesn't want you to poop in a public restroom, your body won't, your body's got you covered. We took a party bus to the Giants game with Old Navy yesterday. There was a sign as soon as you walk in the bathroom. No pooping on the party bus. Who's that comfortable with pooping that like your body's like, you know what,
01:21:03 I can go in there? You clearly don't have IBS. Yes. Yes, before we talk to us, let's Acknowledge the people with IBS. Thank you. Tis I. You have IBS, Jim? Oh, yeah. Bro, it was gnarly on perfect match, too. I remember having to sneak out at like 4 a.m.
01:21:21 I would tell Allison, like, I'm just going to grab like a quick bite or like, I'm just like, you know, grab midnight snack or something. I was using the outhouse. One time, I met a girl on a plane once. This is a long time ago. You know, you know how when you fly and you're like, you fly by yourself and you're always hoping you're going to sit next to like someone cute? but that finally happened to me. This is a long time ago. And great plane ride.
01:21:47 And then she lived in Atlanta. And I flew down the next weekend to meet up with her. On my way to Atlanta, I flew midway to Atlanta and had a Chicago dog. I know where this is going. And then the next morning, like we're sharing a hotel room. And the next morning, I just got, you know, I felt it coming. Bubble guts.
01:22:12 I don't wait for nobody. And I was like, fuck, what do I do? I don't know what to do. I was like, I'm going to go get us some coffee. And I snuck down.
01:22:22 And then I had like an accident. Oh, and I had to throw the underwear away in the, in the lobby, in the lobby of the hotel. And then it went back up upstairs. But if it weren't for the, yeah,
01:22:40 because. That's incredible. I don't think I would ever have the courage to admit that. It's been like 15 years. Maybe because I'm still single. But it's been 15 years. I've held that inside. That was a bad experience.
01:22:54 Apparently you didn't. A veteran of IBS. So you poop on planes then. Huh? You poop on planes. Bro, sometimes it doesn't, like, you can't help it. Especially like if you're, I've had one of those like where you're out and, you know, the night just goes and goes and goes and you wake up with the nattie splatties.
01:23:10 Know that? No, what are that? What's that? The Natty Splatties, it's like, you know. Oh, from Natty lights. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
01:23:18 This is getting gross. So one of my favorite part, Tivulton's trip. Lisa Barlow. Right, actually. Yeah, please actually. Please continue, Jimmy. No, I'm so sorry. No, I don't want to.
01:23:37 I don't want to. Well, that in my favorite part was Lisa Barlow showing some vulnerability. I feel like her cast never lets her explain why she is the way that she is. Giselle came for her at that table and she shared that her cast is always jumping down her throat and making assumptions and accusing her of things that she always immediately goes on the defense. So again, I think it's another nice redemption moment for Lisa. I take back last week saying that like I would want her to go on pause ever because like, no, I think she just needs to be able to show this side of her, which is actually very refreshing. It's definitely a softer side of Lisa.
01:24:10 that being said my my biggest pet peeve is people wasting my time uh okay i'm very much team jazelle it's like nothing pisses me off than people was wasting my time uh and sometimes it's an accident and sometimes people don't realize it and you know it's just like my bad but when you have people like Lisa who have a pattern of just being like like that would it would be very difficult for me to maintain a very close relation i would have to have like some boundaries with Lisa to be friends of there, you know, I'd have to just know, I would have to just know that I never have to wait on her. It's just like, you know what I'm saying? I'll meet you there. Wherever I'm going with Lisa, I'll meet you there. Show up when you want. Then I can never be mad. But never, never would I ever
01:24:57 agree to wait on someone. I just, that would piss me off so much. And I, I love how I was like, you know what, if this happened on Potomac, we'd leave. Which, Which I love. And the problem is, is like when you keep giving that person more opportunity to piss you off. But at some point, it does become everyone else's fault for continuing to think they're going to change. No, 100%. My group chat with my boys is called anti-punctuality. Because nobody shows up on time?
01:25:25 Never. How does that group chat work? Like, does it just somebody sends a message and then it could be like hours until somebody else responds? Yeah. Yeah, exactly, actually. And well, like, I've had to learn that, like, if we need to, to be somewhere at 7 o'clock. I have to tell them it starts at 6.
01:25:44 And like, if I'm picking you up, I'm texting you, yo, I'm here when I'm 15 minutes away. Okay. Yeah. So you're not sitting outside waiting. No, that's right there. Know your audience. Yeah, no.
01:25:56 You learn on the fly. That's what I love about, you know, I love and hate the ultimate girl's trip because it is so much chill to watch. It's just unsurious in the best way, though. It's so silly. Like you've got Luanne that just can't shut the fuck up at the table and just watching all the housewives take different turns being pissed at her for talking too much. I was like, but I guess one of the big things too, Giselle brought up was Lisa Barlow talking to blogs.
01:26:17 And like, do we really think that this is a big deal in today's day and age, like with everybody commenting on blog posts about themselves, about their castmates? Is this not like just part of social media nowadays? Yes and no. I mean, I don't know what the rules are for Bravo. And I've learned that they, that's a whole different universe. But I think there's a difference between engaging with the blogs and talking with the blogs and talking with the blog. blogs behind, like, like in private, so to speak. Like selling stories, essentially.
01:26:43 Yeah, or just, you know, yeah, spilling gossip, you know, planting stories, sharing stories, you know, that, that benefit you or make your peers look worse, I think is dirty business. Engaging with the blogs, being friends with the blogs, like, as long as, like, you know, you're kind of putting your name behind it. Yeah, listen, like, the blogs have become a very integral and important part of reality TV in the space. but like people have used it.
01:27:09 You know, people have used the, you know, and like a lot of people, you know, the blogs, you know, some bloggers have really made a name from themselves. They've become public figures of their own. A lot of blogs are still like anonymous. And most, if not all of them, started as fans, right? And so a lot of times when these Relative TV's personalities reach out to them, there's this kind of like this, you know, they get very excited about they have a relationship with the reality TV star, so they almost feel like doing their dirty work, so to
01:27:36 speak, and then they can, like, plant stories and they can, you know, share gossip and things like that. And I think that's this dirty business. I wish they would police it more, but I don't, I don't, I don't think Bravo's all that interested in policing it at all at all, because I think they, you know, too often they just make it a part of their show, even when they complain about it. Would you consider this, like, a blog of sorts? I wouldn't, Jim. Other people probably would. I mean, we're, like, listen, we're part of the pop culture discourse, that's for sure. Listen, we have our own rules, but like we come up with our own rules of how we think we should move in this space.
01:28:14 Not that, you know, it's just our rules, our boundaries. I find that blogs don't have any rules, you know, and that might be just each their own. Each blogger kind of does things differently. It's the anonymous ones that I think are the most problematic because there's no accountability. They can do or say whatever. They can put out rumors, you know. And again, like when it comes to social media, it's, you know, you're, you're incentivized, not by truth.
01:28:44 You're incentivized by, you know, engagement, you know, and so that can get things real tricky. But I don't consider us one, Jim, but I think there are people out there who may. Other bloggers may feel that way. Do we think Lisa Barlow was love bombing Teresa as a friend because she was the only one on her side? well depends on what her intent was as our guest Elizabeth pointed out do we think Lisa was being disingenuous with her I love you's and using I love you as a way to get Teresa to be on her side or do you think Lisa actually has an affinity for Miss Teresa? I kind of think it's the latter. I think Lisa looks for those friendships and think of how we were introduced to Lisa and Meredith and like how they were little bopsie twins inseparable and then all of the women were like let's break up this friendship. every season. So I'm kind of like, I feel like when Lisa finds somebody that she feels like reciprocates her energy, she's just excited about them. And I'm like, first of all, Teresa's an icon. But also to have
01:29:43 like, like, Teresa standing in your corner while your castmates are screaming at you and she's holding your hand being like, I've got you. This is most fucked up shit I've ever seen. And she's from New Jersey franchise. Like, I don't know. I think that Lisa is just looking for companionship and finally having people stand in her corner just makes her excited. So she's just like, I love your hair. I love everything about you. I'm just excited about you. Was it, was it Brooks, Marks, who's said how like Lisa is this really good at complimenting and looking for like things that you did say that yeah that's what I'm saying so like maybe just Lisa is just a nice person who wants to like point something out that she notices I love this about you and things like that yeah I mean you can you
01:30:21 love bomb a friend for sure you can love bomb anyone it really comes down to again if if like let's say like Lisa didn't like Teresa and we was talking shit about her and only said this because she knew that Trisa just really, like, loves words of information and, you know, thinks that she is, that Lisa is being a friend when she's not, then that would, you know, yeah, you can love bomb anyone. It's definitely not limited to romantic relationships. It's just all, it comes down to coercion. But, yeah, just because you say, I love this about you or, you know, it doesn't mean, or I love you, or I think you're great, is not necessarily love bombing. You could just be really excited and you could be really into someone
01:31:02 and using that word a little loosely. I don't think necessarily think it's love bombing. And who doesn't love to be complimented? Sorry. Follow me around and tell me you love everything about me. Okay, let's go. Well, we're close things off with double lives of suburban wives. The only thing we really wanted to talk about
01:31:21 was the scene where, who was it, who brought all the dildos? Heather. Have you ever been caught bringing something on a trip where you were worried about customs and them going through your bag? No, unfortunately, I'm a rule follower, so I'm... There's no rule against not bringing dildos.
01:31:42 No, first of all, no. I just don't travel with things that I'm like, oh, I'm concerned about them seeing or pulling out or like bringing. I just... Natalie had my mom's sourdough starter taken away from her on our trip back from the lake. They confidence skate.
01:31:58 Oh, because it's like a live... It was considered a liquid and apparently more than four ounces, I guess. Period. I've never been concerned about traveling with something that wasn't allowed, but to tie in the dildo aspect of it, I remember going to a, we were staying at my buddy's parents' condo in New York City. And it was time to just do the dishes, open the dishwasher, and it was just flooded with dildos. And I'll never forget that. my buddy's parents condo just hildos in the dishwasher. It was so fun.
01:32:36 I remember we ordered pizza and you could like stick the dildos on the wall and when the pizza guy threw the dildo stuck it on the wall. All right, my bad. I'm losing the plot. That's tough. Have you ever had a, have you ever gone to the like convenience store or grocery store and bought some things and then realized it was a bad combination?
01:32:55 Like the rhino pills? What are you talking about? Like one time, a long time ago, I bought condoms, Vaseline, and Preparation H. I remember bringing the garage store and I'm like, fuck, this looks bad. Yeah, I don't want to talk loosely about, you know, this. But me and a past situation fell into a repeatable pattern of, we would call it breakfast. And I would order like your breakfast and plan B. Okay.
01:33:33 Did you ever try ordering condoms at one any point? I'm sure I had to door dash them. And they had to be the goat skin ones because of she was allergic to latex. Oh. Yes. Yeah. No, I've definitely been in the checkout line with condoms, alcohol, with my partner, but still it's just like the look that you get like,
01:33:52 oh, you guys are going to have a fun time, huh? And it's just like, just ring it up. I remember I got sent on a mission to get pads. And I didn't realize how nuanced, like, different types of. Lots of options. Which wings? Yeah. Different flow types.
01:34:09 And I was so lost. You're on the phone. Like, so do you need a heavy flow? Yeah. No, literally. I'm like, FaceTime. Like, just like, tell me which box. Like, which one to grab.
01:34:18 Because. Pick a color. For real. They're like, I need the most absorbent one possible. You're like, I got you, babe. That's a gentleman move, by the way. I do think a good relationship test within the first six months women should send their man to go buy them feminine products.
01:34:40 100%. Did you guys see Braxton Berrios go viral for knowing all the female like accessory hair care, skin care products? They had like all the New York Giants players like see like pull things out of a bag and like, hey, do you know what this is? Nobody knew anything. It was like hair clips and like, you know, like exfoliating things. Braxton Berrios knew every single one, went 10 for 10.
01:35:03 I think he makes him a good boyfriend. That's an intent. Yeah, I thought that was a green flag. Yeah. I was like, you know, shut out. He knows ball. His ex is Alex Earl, though. Right.
01:35:11 Yeah, but that doesn't mean he had to pay attention, you know. Right. He listens. I guess that's true. He listens. Yeah. I know she is like the premier like girls girl, but like there are a lot of girls out there who like all these things and they're date men who don't give a shit or don't pay attention.
01:35:28 and clearly he took the time to get to know his partner. You know? Lucky girl. Whoever's coming next. All right. Well, that will wrap up today's episode. Thank you to our guest, Elizabeth Chambers, for talking about her new show. Toxic.
01:35:44 As always, Jimmy, Sierra, thank you for stopping by and having some fun with us. We are back on Thursday. We got the premiere of Dancing with the Stars. I think I'm actually going. Oh, fun. Cheer on, my boy, Tyler Cameron. And the entire great cast of Dancing with the Stars. We'll be talking all about it.
01:35:57 and we have just a jam-packed episode. So stick with us, stay with us. See you on Thursday. Bye-bye.
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