508: Toby Rice—Got Gas?
00:03 Hey guys, it's Mike Groh. This is the way I heard it. And it's always a pleasure to talk to people on this podcast whose resume makes me set up a little straighter. You know what I mean? People who have paid their dues, who have been there and done that. Well, that is Toby Rice. Toby started his career as a chimney sweep, interestingly, which was the first dirty job I ever filmed outside of Indianapolis. And man, if you're looking for a vocation where you can pay your dues, let me just say, chimneys still need to be swept and doing it is dirty and difficult and exhausting and important. That's where Toby started. Today he's the CEO of EQT, which has very little to do with sweeping chimneys. but an awful lot to do with keeping us warm in the winter and cool in the summer. EQT is the largest producer of natural gas in the United States. And the fact that he's running it, I just love it because after the whole chimney sweeping thing, he and his brothers got into the energy business.
01:13 This was at the height of the shale revolution. So he's working on rigs, you know, roughnecking, rousedabouts, all that stuff. stuff, still paying his dues. And then there was almost a tragic accident, followed by another near-miss. And Toby started thinking differently about his industry and what he wanted to do in it. And long story short, he and his brothers take every penny they have. They throw it into the building of an energy company from the ground up. That's EQT. And they did a lot of stuff right. They talked constantly about the importance of energy independence, and even more importantly than that, energy abundance. He's a guy today who looks at our current landscape and doesn't see a reason
02:03 to scarcity mindset our way into poverty. He has very strong opinions about the best way to use American innovation and skilled trades and practical engineering to lift billions of people all over the world out of poverty and secure a decent future for everybody. He's a straight shooter. He's a hard worker. He's a former chimney sweep. And he's a guy who is actively reshaping the entire planet's energy landscape. And I was thrilled to sit down and talk with him.
02:36 Also, I neglected to thank him in this conversation for his generosity last night. We're at Brush Creek, by the way. For a summit, this is a ranch up in Saratose. and Wyoming, where I've had a chance to interview a number of luminaries who are just walking around here, taking it all in. Seeing Toby again last night, inviting him to chat was an obvious thing to do, but I did not expect him to purchase a significant chunk of a 68-year-old bottle of McCallum, 68 years old. We had a chance to sit down and, um, enjoy it. And it was delicious and very generous of Toby Rice to do that. He's also been very generous with
03:25 his time and with his opinions, both of which he will share with you right after this. So as some of you may have heard, I went to Congress 16 years ago to testify before a House subcommittee. And then again, a year later, to testify before a Senate subcommittee about the need to reinfigurate the skilled trades with some kind of national effort that would make a more persuasive case for a lot of good jobs out there that didn't require a four-year degree. Well, 15 years later, I finally heard back from the government, and I am delighted to tell you about a program called build freedom. dot us. This is the national PR campaign that MicroWorks has been talking about for a decade and a half now, and it's focused on three or four hundred thousand excellent jobs in the defense industrial base. These are the electricians and the plumbers and the steam finters and the pipe fitters and the CNC operators and the shipbuilders and so forth. But in this case, all of those
04:36 trades are focused on building out our national infrastructure through the defense industrial base. So people who are building our autonomous weapons, our planes, our ships, it's only a matter of national security. And it's a very big deal. And on a personal level, it's really been very gratifying. Build Freedom donated $10 million to MicroWorks. The money's available right now for you if you want to pursue a skill that's in demand and work in the defense industrial base. I think it's an opportunity of a lifetime. Go to buildfreedom.us. See what's available and then apply for a scholarship from MicroWorks.
05:14 The money's there. Burning a hole in my pocket. Go get some. Buildfreedom. com. Man, I sure appreciate you doing this. Yeah. Really do.
05:27 You having fun? Having a lot of fun. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, in general, not just here. I mean, I'm sure you're having fun here. Yeah? You know, first time being in Wyoming, this is a great country. But, you know, in our role right now, I mean, we're getting exposed.
05:39 This is a pretty big things. It's a really important time in energy. So there's lots to stay busy and a lot of exciting things to work on. You and I met, what was it, a year or so ago, maybe, at Alex's Alex Hebstein's thing. That's right. Yeah, it was a meeting of thought leaders. I don't know what we were doing there. I don't either, man.
05:55 I honestly don't know how. I feel like I snuck into a couple of these gigs and got at the grown-up table. But looking back, the number of things, good things that have happened on the foundation side for me, as a result of that first meeting. Just being in the room with those guys, Rick Perry gave me a heck of an introduction. And ever since, like the tentacles have spread out, and I've just found myself more and more fascinated
06:24 by what's happening with the data centers and AI, and at the same time with electricity energy, in your case, natural gas in general. And so I think the people who listen to this would be most interested in understanding, or at least learning something they don't know about the relationship between the promise of whatever software is coming and the reality of the energy that's going to drive it or not if we don't get our poop in a group. Yeah. Well, you know, what's happened in this world right now? We've got probably one of the most exciting times in energy. You know, as the CEO of EQT, where America's natural gas champion, currently produced about 8 BCF a day of natural gas. It's about a million barrels a day of energy and natural gas form.
07:08 Explain what a BCF is? A billion cubic feet. It's our unit. Gas units are kind of tricky, but divided by six, and that's sort of what you get. So it's about a million barrels a day worth of energy equivalent. But with energy security, Americans' energy bills being up, and also this data center revolution and the AI revolution that's taking place, it's spurring a tremendous amount of energy demand.
07:34 We're looking at this as like a 20 to 40 percent increase in natural gas demand. And to meet these challenges, it's going to require that we build stuff, whether it's LNG facilities, more power generation up, lower energy bills for Americans, more power generation plants to meet this AI revolution. And it's one of those things where I think people are scratching their heads and saying, man, where is this workforce going to come from? And I'm looking at the tech companies, and I'm looking to learn from them. And they've always gotten their energy for their needs. and now they're in a situation where maybe they took it for granted and they're scrambling to catch up. And we should look at that and say,
08:11 you know, with our supply chains, you know, are there things that we take for granted? And I think for a long time, we've taken labor for granted it's been there. But now we're talking about building an amount of power generation that would be equivalent to power in 20 New York cities. And we've got to do it in the next five years.
08:27 We're talking about building an amount of eloquifaction that is going to power, you know, continents. It's going to require a tremendous amount of labor, hundreds of thousands of jobs. And I think that's why you're getting such a strong reception for micro works is because, you know, we can only ignore a problem for so long until it becomes a real problem. And this is the time for us to start addressing that. I mean, it's not new in the energy space. For as long as I've been under this particular net, I've been talking to people in fossil fuels. their recruiting challenges have always been real and practical.
09:08 It just feels like now it's spread out. And this, I keep using the analogy, it's like a memo went out to some C-suits that normally aren't involved in these conversations at all. And to some governors who, until very recently, have been really, really silent about this thing. It's like an alarm got rung, and it's getting a little louder every day. And I'm wondering what you think it will take for the country, like collectively, to say, okay, Atlas shrugged, new sheriff in town. Yeah. Whatever your metaphor is, what needs to happen to galvanize public opinion?
09:51 Let's just open our eyes and look at this world. We see Americans' energy bills are up 40%. This is despite U.S. producing record amounts of energy. Yeah. You know, Mike, and thanks to the Shell Revolution, we're producing over 30 million barrels a day of energy, yet despite that, if you added up the oil and gas together,
10:08 yet despite that, American's energy bills are up over 40% over the last five years. You look at the energy security of the world, crippled, whether you're talking about what's happening in Europe or what's happening in the Middle East. Global energy security is compromised, and what we're seeing in America is recognizing that global energy security is our energy security.
10:28 every country in this world is impacted by energy security threats. We see that now in the rising price of oil and gasoline. And we live in a world where we've got petro dictators that have taken their energy sales and translated them into terror, tyranny, and bombs, whether you're looking at what's going on in Venezuela or what's happening right now in Iran or how Russia has weaponized energy with Europe. And we have the need to replace that energy and influence. with the energy and influence of America.
11:00 That's an opportunity. That's going to lead to more peaceful, prosperous world. And then on top of that, we've got to win the AI race. And I think the implications of not winning that are significant and severe. You listen to the way defense is changing with drones and all the intelligence that's going to be used to keep our citizens safe. And people need to realize, like, this is our world. And this AI race is going to happen. We don't have a choice.
11:27 We've got to build. We've got to win. And I think when America's been put in tough spots, we have stepped up. And it's important people realize we can still do amazing things. You know, 20 years ago, we were in a very dark place when it comes to energy. We were energy dependent. We were producing 5 million barrels a day, consuming 18 million barrels a day. Over $700 billion a year was being exported so that we can import our oil.
11:53 We were talking about importing natural gas. What were we going to do? Well, thankfully, this industry stepped up. We cracked the code on shale with amazing technologies like hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling. We cracked the code on shale and transformed America into an energy powerhouse, the world's largest energy producer. So we have the capabilities to do amazing things, but we've got to move forward collectively. And there's a lot of debate now, really, that's going to guide the enthusiasm in which we move. And there's no better sign of that right now than what's the debate that's taking place with the whole data.
12:26 Center issues, which has certainly become a very popular topic and politically very unfavorable right now. Do you think it's really the data center debate that's on the tip of the spear or people just so existentially freaked out about the uncertainty of an AI future that they're looking for some tangent? But it's like data centers are brick and mortar. AI exists in our imaginations. like it's a cloud thing. It's hard to, it's like blockchain.
12:59 I can't point to it, you know? And so I agree with you, but I'm just amazed that people don't seem to understand that there are 4,000 data centers in the country already. They've been here, what, 30 years? That's right.
13:14 I mean, every download, every song I've ever streamed, every movie I've watched in the last 10 years, every fantasy football. Every email I've done. opened every text I sent that that's an a that's a data center but suddenly for some reason they are the sum of all fears and look I know a lot of people listening to this are fearful of them and so from your perspective what's driving the fear is there a legitimate cause for concern
13:48 and what ought to be done to level things out if anything yeah the intangibilityness of uh artificial intelligence, I think, doesn't help us diagnose. I think the root cause is still, people are still trying to pin that down. But, you know, it's not helpful when we have tech leaders saying that my technology is so amazing. It's going to take 50% of the jobs away. Now, fortunately, that's been proven to not have happened. But I think just the threat of technological change is going to be the fear of the unknown is driving this. I tell you, you know, the questions about water consumption, electricity uses, driving prices up, night noise and light pollution. I think these are all issues that in any industrial push, we have to address these issues.
14:37 And I think looking at this from the energy side of things, this is a very similar playbook to what we went through. And no industry, no industrial revolution is going to happen by ignoring the concerns of the public. Can you imagine trying to build the highway system today? Yeah, yeah. How would that happen? It'd be very difficult. It would be very difficult.
14:58 I mean, we live in a world where it takes an act of Congress to get a pipeline built. But, you know, there are a lot of similarities to what we dealt with with the show revolution. You know, 20 years ago, it was a conversation about hydraulic fracturing. And there were a lot of people that were very concerned. Now, fortunately, we had leaders in states that, like in Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Ohio, that looked at the day. and understood that this was a risk worth taking, and the industry was serious about mitigating these impacts. And because of that, we've created and discovered
15:29 one of the largest natural gas fields in the world where we operate in the Marcella Shale. Some states, and in those states, they've got a lot of jobs. We pay billions in royalties, enriching the communities, and we've got relatively affordable energy bills. But then you look at states right next door, like New York, and they've blocked and canceled. technologies and they're in a much more challenging situation. You know, now in New England, places that are
15:57 blocked technologies are blocked energy infrastructure, they're paying the highest energy bills in the world. You know, what's remarkable what people are surprised here is the highest natural gas prices in the world, Mike, they're not going to be paid in Germany. They're not going to be paid in Japan. They're going to be paid in this winter. They're going to be paid in New England. Think about that. And that's the result of what happens when we cancel, try and cancel industry, try and cancel infrastructure and allow political force to overwhelm market forces. And so I think at the end of this, we need to embrace these criticisms, address it, and show people that, guess what, there's two things, there's really three things that I think get us really excited about the future. And that future is creating abundance for the world.
16:44 I mean, if you say make the world a better place, to me, that's creating abundance. And it's three things you need. You need labor, you need energy, you need intelligence. And when we put these three things together, we're going to improve the standard of living. Not just for Americans, but I believe for billions around the world. And it's really important that we get this right in the developed world because our success is going to cascade and overflow to the world. So labor, energy, and intelligence? That's right.
17:12 Those are three things. Man, I'm glad you said that. But if you take energy out of it for a moment, what you're left with is work and smarts. And if you think about part of what we've been preaching to the next generation for the last couple of generations, it really is about working smarter, right? Not harder, smarter. So less of an emphasis on the labor and more of an emphasis on the intellectual component. of it, presumably, so we can get to a point where there's no work at all. It's just intelligence
17:50 somehow or another. And in this case, maybe it's the artificial intelligence that people are looking at, and perhaps some are attracted to it because it feels like, okay, I have to do less work. But the reason I love that triumvirate, those are the three legs on the stool. And I don't think you can ever get away. I don't think you can shorten any of those legs, less remove one without the whole thing toppling over. Yeah. The service I'm about to recommend to you is absolutely free, and it can easily save the average user over $1,000 a year.
18:31 It's called Chapter. And it's the best way to make sure the Medicare plan you're on is the one you should be on. Because every year Medicare plans change, and so do you. And just because your plan might have been the best choice when you were 65 doesn't mean it's the best choice today. At chapter, independent advisors compare Medicare plans nationwide. They look at your doctors, your prescriptions, and your budget to help you find coverage that fits your needs. And they're not paid more to recommend one plan over another. You don't need to sort through all the options yourself. You can talk to somebody who understands them, ask your questions, and get help
19:08 comparing the costs and benefits. So if your current plan is still the right fit, they'll tell you. if there's a better option, they'll tell you that too, and they'll help you switch. Again, the service is free, and a review can take less than 20 minutes. This is the time of year to make sure you're squared away for 2027. So if you haven't checked, your Medicare coverage lately, give Chapter a call. It's a simple way to make sure your plan still works for you. And with potential savings of $1,100 a year, it's worth a free review. 804 Chapter, call them today.
19:41 804, C-H-A-P-T-E-R. In other words, I agree with you. But, boy, I think you listed them in the right order. And I think, practically speaking, it's the other order, at least in terms of what we value. That's right. We value intelligence way more than anything, at least on paper. At least that's where the money seems to flow, not labor. And that's madness.
20:06 Yeah. Well, I think also, I mean, when people are looking about getting into the workforce and the type of jobs you're looking at, you know, what you start out doing is not where you're going to end up. I mean, I started in this industry as a floor hand on a workover rig making $9 an hour. Where? I broke out in West Texas, wrenching rods and pulling pipe. I will tell you, those lessons that I learned in the field have made me a better CEO today, you know, because at the end of the day, we learned a deep appreciation for the workers that are out there in the field. And a shout out to our crew, some of the best energy workers and the pride they take and how important it is, you cannot have a successful business without
20:43 operating at the front lines and creating a safe work environment, empowering those people. You only learn that in the field and really get that appreciation. So it's a mantra that we actually embrace at EQT. It's called Respect the Wrench. And every decision that we make in the office is thinking about what's happening on the front line, respect the wrench. And so I think it's really important for people understand, like, how was I going to get into this industry?
21:10 I was not going to start as a CEO. I was not going to start as a petroleum engineer, although I tried, but I dropped out of college. I started as a floor hand and working hard and have the right ethic. This country is amazing. And opportunities found line that allowed us to be in this position today. But it's a great opportunity to get out there, work with your hands, build something, learn an appreciation. That's going to make you better for the later stage of your career. The CEO of the biggest gas provider and the company started on a rig.
21:41 That's right. Yeah, I grew up in Boston, Massachusetts, which, Mike, you know, there's 38 states in this country that produce natural gas. Massachusetts is not one of them. I thought I was going to be a professional baseball player growing up. No, it didn't work out. I was 5'10. Who am I kidding? When Draft Day came in, I didn't get drafted, and I was completely shocked like nobody in my family was.
22:04 I had a chemistry degree and came back to Boston, and I didn't want to put on a lab coat. So I got a job. I was sweeping chimneys. and I woke up every day for six months wondering what the heck I'm going to do next in my life. I had an incident on a roof with a raccoon. I had a near-death experience, and that was the breaking point for me to seek help. So I went to my father. I said, yo, dad, can you be a father and, like, give me some advice, please?
22:27 Because I'm kind of struggling here. And he puts down his paper and he says, what about doing the gas industry? I said, what's that? He says, like Saudi Arabia? He says, no, we do it in the U.S. And the story was big risk, big reward was like modern-day treasure hunting. He told me to go to Texas A&M, get a master's degree, but school didn't start for six months, which meant another six months of sweeping chimneys.
22:47 I wasn't doing that. So I hustled to get a job as a floor hand on a workover rig. And I did that and then went to A&M and the rest is there. Well, look, man, I have to assume you would never lose your appreciation or respect for that job. I mean, it's, I don't, I know people who have that respect, but. in an anecdotal way, to actually do the work, to really do it. You know, you made me laugh. I want to circle back to the roof, the near-death experience in a raccoon, because that sounds
23:20 interesting. But have you been to the National Institute of Chimney Sweeps? No, I have not. Did you know who else is it? Chimney Sweep. No. You won't believe this. Secretary of Interior, Doug Bergam, chimney sweep.
23:35 I'm supposed to talk to Doug next month. That's hysterical because that was the very first Derrick. jobs we filmed. I went to, I think it was Plainfield, Indiana, where they teach these guys how to sweep chimneys. And who the hell knew? But it's a, it's a thing. Yeah. It's a big deal. Yeah. And it's an important rung on a ladder. That was the first, yeah, it was a wrong. Yeah, it was for sure. But that was the first time I stuck tools down a hole, wondering what, what I was doing. And then, yeah, the oil field, I'll tell you, I've done a lot of physical labor. wrenching rods, you know, the pump jacks will go up and down.
24:13 You got to replace those pumps and there's rods that you need to do. I remember wrenching rods. It was the most difficult physical labor I've ever done because it's a powerlifting contest to break the connection and then it's the cardio of spinning the wrenches. I remember doing that the first day and it was an 8,000 foot well and I wrenched all those rods out. And then took a break, switched out the pump, wrenched them all the way in.
24:36 And I was dead, tired at the end. It's like 16 hours. It's like rung out. And I go to my guys, I'm like, hey, you know, guys, how do you do this day in and day out? Like, that was ridiculous. They say, Tov, we usually switch after every 15 rods. You just kept going. Yeah.
24:52 So thanks, guys. Go breathe. Yeah. Last month, I was up in Fairbanks at, sorry about these flies out here. It's part of what you get on a ranch, I guess, at the Pipeline Training Institute. in Fairbanks, Alaska. And this is maybe one of the most important schools in the country because they train the guys and the women,
25:17 specifically who are gone on the North Slope. They've tried to create, you know, real world conditions because have you been up there before? No, no. I haven't been up there. Mike, I got into the, one of the reasons I got into the oil gas industry is I thought I was going to travel the world.
25:31 That's one of the perks. So far, I've been to Pittsburgh and St. Clairsville, Ohio. I haven't made it out of Appalachia. Now I get to go to D.C. a little bit. Everything the brochure promised. Yeah. Well, these people come from far and wide, you know, for the same people, for the same reason people fly into Dutch Harbor to work on a crab boat.
25:48 There's nothing glamorous about it. But it's a way to be weighed and measured, I think. And for a lot of people who are looking to be pushed, who want to see if they have it, right? I mean, it's really important. And you would love these guys up there because they, of course, it's Alaska, so they've all seen deadliest catch. And they know me. And they're like, yeah, man, that's adorable. Those little crab fishermen out there on their little boats, right, with the waves.
26:18 You just come to the North Slope. And the truth is, I can't. I can't shoot there because it's 40 below. It's pitch dark. You don't see anybody's face. It's the same kind of work you described in conditions that are almost unimaginable. with so much risk, right, so much risk. So maybe we just kind of riff on that for a minute.
26:41 How inherently dangerous is your industry? And what are you guys doing to send people home in one piece? Yeah, first thing I would say is everything that we do can be done safely. I believe that total. We prove that every day. Every day in this country, over 17 million barrels of liquids are moving safely. 100 BCF a day of natural gas, which is the energy equivalent of another. they're 16 million barrels a day of energy, all that's moving safely.
27:09 So I believe that to the core, that everything we do can be done safely. For me, working the field, actually really impacted on me just how important safety needs to be. I was, when I started out, you know, I'm from Boston, and now I'm on a workover rig in West Texas. Like, what am I doing here? I had a near miss the first week on the job, and I was like, well, that's, okay, That must be the oil field.
27:34 That must be the way it is. And then a week later, I had another near miss. This one hit a little bit closer to home. I almost had an arm injury. That's when I really stepped back. I said, is this normal? And another week later, I had a third near miss. And this one almost took my head off.
27:52 And now this is, Mike, this is 20 years ago. This is a different oil field than what it is today. You're in the field? You're on a rig. I was on a workover rig. And I remember stepping back and saying, man, this is not sustainable. This, I was worried for my safety.
28:06 And I'll tell you, there's no more helpless feeling in this world than going to work, scared for your safety. I'll never forget that feeling. And I remember thinking myself, you know, if I ever getting a chance to be a leader in this industry and have an organization, you know,
28:18 safety is going to be number one. I don't want anybody ever feel like I'm feeling now. And, you know, I could tell you, leaders in this industry, we all feel the exact same way. There's only one thing that's going to stop us from the, amazing energy opportunities out in front of us today. It's EHS, environmental health and safety.
28:38 And, you know, this industry has done a really great job of putting people in safe working environments. But we are dealing with high pressure. We're dealing with high torque, heavy equipment. You know, we're not making cupcakes. This is serious business. And we need to make sure that safety is taken very seriously because it means a lot. That's the ultimate. How do you articulate to your people, your company's commitment to that very thing without creating this idea that I've seen happen with a lot of safety first nomenclature, right? When you look at mandatory briefings, when you look at all the protocols, the lockout, tagout, confined space, whatever it is, they're all super important. But, you know, in my world, seeing that in so many different industries
29:29 for over a decade and sitting through those things, people get complacent. They get bored. And they start to think that maybe their boss cares more about their well-being than they do. And it seems like the minute that happens, like that's the unintended consequence, like of really leaning into compliance.
29:54 Right? So how do you keep your people frosty? Yeah, number one, it's people need to understand your safety starts with you. That's your priority. Like, this is, we're going to create a great working environment for you, but nothing replaces your self-responsibility and the responsibility for looking out for the teams. I'll tell you the challenge, though, because I started, when I started Rice Energy, I mean, it was three brothers in apartment in Pittsburgh.
30:19 And there's been an evolution of just the scale of our operations going from drilling one or two wells a year to what we're doing now, where we're, you know, spending a few billion dollar operating assets and one thing that is is shown as we scale up you know when you're small when you're a small organization you know you manage risks to the one out of a thousand times you put a control in place on that that's fine if you're only turning that wrench one time guys a very small chance but as you get bigger you're going to turn that wrench a hundred times yeah and so you need to continually expand your level of detail in scope in controls. Now, when you do that, the papers start getting bigger, the regulations, the policies
31:04 you put in place, that's how you fall into that trap of compliance. One of the things that we're really excited about leveraging AI is really making sure we have that information front and center from when people are doing the work. So it's not just a, look, what do you guys want to talk about? It's focused on the operation and the specific controls we have in place. But at the end of the day, you know what our biggest safeguard is? If you see something, say something. Stop work authority has been totally important. And listen, like I tell everybody,
31:38 there's only one thing that's going to stop us. You know, we're going to put safety number one. If we ever feel like we're not taking advantage of that, we're going to shut it down. The other interesting thing about this conversation, and I've had a lot of different versions of it, but the thing that got your attention were the near misses. One, two, and three.
31:55 Right. Same thing happened to me. I want to go home in one piece, and I got very comfortable with all the orthodoxies and, you know, all the OSHA stuff. And then a crabboat captain said to me, in rough seas, and we were working in what sure struck me as an inhospitable environment. He ultimately wound up telling me, he said, look, son, my job is to get you home rich. You want to go home in one piece? That's on you. Now, you would never say that in the lower 48.
32:28 I'm not even sure you say it in Alaska anymore. But it had a clarifying effect, right? It's like when you look down and you realize the safety net's not there, well, one foot in front of the other, three points of contact. That's right. Keeps you frost. That's right. If you work in boots all day long and your feet sweat, I feel your pain. and I'd recommend trying the socks that I wear every day from Camel City Mill.
32:59 These guys sent me a box as a gift long before they sponsored this podcast, and I started wearing them, and eventually I reached out to them because I love the product, and I wanted more sponsors on the podcast who make things in America. And now here they are again sponsoring another episode. Camel City Mill makes their socks in North Carolina with American wool in an American factory. Their merino wool blends help wicks sweat away. from your skin and there are no sweat vent, lets heat and moisture escape.
33:30 That helps keep your feet dry and comfortable when you're spending long days in work boots. They also reinforce the heel and the toe with double-plated nylon to stand up to the wear those boots put on your socks. Remember, it's not the feet that wear out your socks at your boots, and they back their socks with a 10-year durability guarantee.
33:50 If you get a hole or a tear in the first decade, they'll replace them for free. You're a hardworking guy dealing with sweaty, uncomfortable feet. I'm telling you, these are worth trying. I wear mine every day, and I'm glad to have the company on the podcast. Camelcitymill.mill.com. Use code row. Get 10% off my favorite work socks.
34:10 Camelcity mill.com, code row. I do want to stress the different oil field nature of things. I think one of the great examples that we've seen from the oil field today compared to what it was 20 years ago, just the massive efficiency gains that we've seen. seen, you know, 20 years ago, we were running over 2,000 rigs in this country and producing about half the energy. Today, we're producing record amounts of energy with only 500 rigs, five to 600 rigs. When you step back and you look at the productivity per rig, we've seen a 25-fold increase in that efficiency. And what that does, that reduces demand hours to get
34:46 on a per-energy basis. And that efficiency that we see that's actually leading to productivity gains, that same innovation is being applied on the EHS side of things as well. So this industry is, if they've done one thing, I think remarkably well, it's from a safety perspective and making sure that that's a culture and an industry that's bred on the EHS excellence. What a shame that that same level of care, that same duty, hasn't migrated into the surrounding PR for your industry. What a shame. I mean, I think going back to where we started,
35:26 like there's a war for public opinion, and it's raging around fossil fuels. It's raging around data centers and AI. It's raging around mining. It's raging around timber, for God's sakes. We import so much timber, and we grow more than anyone. And it just seems like there's a very noisy contingent. Maybe it's NGOs.
35:50 I'm not quite sure who it is, but the conversation is not being controlled by the companies that have the most skin in the game. And I wonder why. Yeah, and it's not because we don't have the facts on our side or the stories. I'll just give you an example in energy because I'll tell you, coming back, when we started from 2007 to 2017, you know, that's when America claimed its energy in the business. independence. When I came back in 2019 as the CEO of EQT, I realized we're in a different world. Like something clearly changed. You can see this on the production chart. What was, you know, unfettered growth now suddenly hit the wall. And it was pipeline cancellation movements and the war against fossil fuels that was driving this. This was the debate on energy. And it ran in, in the debate
36:41 on energy was really about climate. And despite what the industry's efforts, you know, if you look at the just the amount of resources that that were being put into this debate, pro-fossil advocates, like American Petroint Institute is our biggest one. That's a big lobbying group in D.C., whose primary job is to make a persuasive case for the existence of companies like yours. Yeah.
37:06 And so those pro-fossil groups together, about $400 million a year, okay? It was what was advocating for energy. Anti-fossil groups, $1.6 billion a year. Now, you know, You know the big names like the Sierra Club. When you look at the list of donors, Sierra Club is on top of the list. They're like number three.
37:28 And so there's just a tremendous amount of volume and resources. And at the root of it, I think at the end of day, climate change was a very scary concept for people. And I traveled the world talking to people about energy and climate. We go to COP, a big climate conference. We go to Climate Weeks. And we meet with these people talking a frontline activists. We talk with world leaders. And I will tell you, the debate is changing perspectives of big climate advocates,
38:01 particularly the most intelligent ones, are recalibrating. And I think Bill Gates is a really great example of this. Yeah, I mean. You know, Bill Gates, this is the author of the book, How to Avoid a Climate Catastrophe. And what, 21? February of 21 is when he released that. last year he came he made quite a stir with a new essay three truths about climate and i thought this was profound where he made three points number one climate change is an issue but it's not going to end
38:30 humanity like that was his attempt to stop the fear very noble very important for him to say that that's something that we can all we all need to share that message the second point he made was that our progress in energy is not going to be measured in degrees and the third point is the most impactful. And that third point is if you want to protect people against the impacts of climate, find ways to make them more prosperous. Now, that is the most important point, because when you ask yourself, what is the fastest, most impactful way to make this world more prosperous? You know what it is? Get people access to more energy, because energy consumption correlates with wealth creation, and that's prosperity. And so this is a great opportunity for us to find common ground
39:16 with people that really at the root of it, care about making the world a better place, energy is going to be that foundation that we can build on. And when you step back and you look at the challenges that a lot of people in this world are facing, whether you're in the developed world, because these restrictions have led to a situation
39:31 where energy demand has grown 50% for natural gas over the last 15 years, but the infrastructure to service that demand has only grown 25%. That's the pipelines. And the storage infrastructure to buffer the supply and demand has only grown 5%. That is a symptom of what happens when people just cancel energy infrastructure.
39:53 We've maxed out our energy ecosystem. And as a result, we see this crazy volatility. And this is why Americans' energy bills are up 40%. So it's an issue in the developed world. So we need to get back to bringing abundance here to lower energy bills. And that abundance is going to allow us to do things like export our energy to bring up the energy access for the billions in the world that are living on less electricity than it takes to run a fridge. And that's where the prosperity is going to be. And Mike, the big question is, well, how much energy do we need to produce in this world? And I think this is probably the most important thing for people wrap their heads around when they're saying cancel coal, cancel nuclear, cancel this pipeline. People don't really
40:34 understand how much energy consumption there is in this world. And I don't blame it. It's a big thing to get your head wrapped around. But think about this. For us to get everybody up to a suitable level access of energy, we would need to triple the amount of energy that's produced and consume in this world. The developing emerging markets, the averaging about 15 megawatt hours equivalent per year in the U.S., we're about 90, 70 to 90. Your house in America is about 20 megawatt hours equivalent per year, just for perspective. So if we can triple the amount of energy that's produced in this world, we can triple the amount of energy access. And if we do that, the amount of wealth we're going to create is going to increase our global,
41:12 GDP five times over in addition to lifting billions out of poverty. So whether you care about energy, you care about business, or you care about making the world a better place, she care about bringing energy abundance into this world. Where's the morality? Where's the moral case for producing less energy? Last I read, we're talking about three billion souls on the planet who are currently relying on wood and dung as their primary source of energy. These people need their energy revolution. They need an industrial revolution, whatever it looks like. There must be some hierarchy. And if there is, where is it going? Are you guys going to be able to create enough gas, to create enough electricity to run the $10 trillion infrastructure that Black Rock says is inevitable?
42:07 Yeah. So, I mean, let's talk about what are the energy abundant solutions that we have available to us in this world. And let's take a minute. Let's take a break from looking at all these innovative technologies that may be viable in 10, 20 years from now. Let's look at what we have today. Let's start with Shale. With Shale, we've translated our energy dependence to energy independence. And now the Trump administration famously is calling for us, A, independence is not good enough. We need to translate our independence into dominance. And that means four things. That means we need to protect America's energy advantage, make sure Americans continue to have access to the most affordable, reliable energy. Right now, as I mentioned, energy bills are up 40%. This is before Iran. This is before the impact of AI.
42:50 This has been happening since 2020. Need to do work there. The second thing on the benefit of abundance is we need to extend our technological leadership. That means we win the race for AI. That means we win advanced manufacturing in defense. The third thing is providing energy, to our allies. As I mentioned, global energy security is national security, and there are plenty of
43:13 bad actors that influence needs to be replaced with American energy that will lead to more peaceful world and also less volatility on prices. And the last point is energy abundance is going to allow us to empower humanity by eliminating poverty. When you look at these abundant solutions that we have in the U.S., thanks to the show revolution, we've already discovered. We know it's there. We have the ability to create a natural gas surplus of over 60 BCF a day. And we can do that with a $4 gas price for natural gas. Now, these are abstract numbers. Let me give you some context. Yeah, where's the price now? So price of natural gas for next year is going to average around $3.30. Over the last 20 years, before the shale revolution, people were paying $8 for their natural gas.
43:55 $4 natural gas, just for perspective, is the energy equivalent of 50 cent per gallon of gasoline. It says Super Forbes is a great deal for Americans. With that price signal, operators like EQT can lift this energy out of ground and create the surplus. And we can produce at these levels for over 30 years. There's the reliability. Now, how big, we can put this natural gas on the doorstep of the world with LNG. We put on the doorstep of the world for a price of $10. Now, would the world be excited about $10 natural gas?
44:28 Currently, prices are $20 for natural gas internationally. And now that's because of the Iran conflict. Before that, it was between $8 and $12. But $10 natural gas is the energy equivalent of a $60 barrel of oil. And you can build some pretty kick-ass economies with a steady, reliable stream of $60 oil. So the world would be thrilled about this. And just to give you perspective on the scale of this,
44:51 60 BCF a day is the energy equivalent of adding over 10 million barrels a day of clean energy to the world stage. It's going to lift billions up. It's like adding another Saudi Arabia. That's just one country. That's the U.S. with just one resource. Now, when you step back and look at what we've done here in the U.S., the success we've had in Shale, it's improbable to think that this can only work in the United States.
45:15 Shale is everywhere, and you're going to start seeing. So we have these abundance opportunities exist around the world, and that's just one type of energy on the hydrocarbon side. So I think it's really important people understand. Energy abundance is going to be available, but it's only going to come with an attitude of abundance. And people need to start demanding lower bills, more security, and also cleaner energy as well.
45:39 That's why the Bill Gates thing matters. Because I hate to throw people on the bus and name names, but I'm going to ask you to talk about the opponents of abundance in your view, whether it's an NGO, an individual, a country, whatever it is. Because Bill Gates matters. he's consequential in every way. And for him to, I don't know if it was a 180, but it was certainly a Louis.
46:10 I feel like with that essay, and I read it too, and I called Alex right away, because I just thought, look, this is really positive. Because in my mind, if you say the world's going to end in 12 years, you're just a dooms day.
46:26 And I feel like I've seen this play before. I feel like I'm trapped. Like I'm old enough now to look back and go, you know something, man? What's next? You worked really hard to scare the hell out of me in grade school with the coming ice age. And then you worked real hard to scare the hell out of me with Y2K. And then you scare three mile island and Chernobyl and Fukushima. You worked real hard to scare me about nuclear.
46:55 And that at 5G, whatever, what, two? years ago we were losing our minds over 5G, radio waves are going to, and now, now it's the data center thing. Yeah. And look, I'll get a lot of grief for saying it out loud, and I'm not trying to be glib, and I'm not trying to soft pedal real concerns, but it's just so boring to be told we're all going to die real soon if we don't this, this, this, and that. Who are the enemies of abundance?
47:29 And is that their primary weapon? Here's a crazy idea. What if there was an academy out there that paid students to learn instead of the other way around? Specifically, men and women who want to work in the skilled trades? And what if this academy not only paid for your training, but also covered all the expenses associated with your training, like travel and food and lodging? And finally, what if this academy guaranteed you a job at the end of the training period? Well, that's exactly what's happening at America's Workforce Academy by META.
48:07 This is a five-week, highly immersive pre-apprenticeship program that gets you all the necessary certifications you'll need to start a career in the skilled trades immediately. I'm talking about AI-proof, six-figure jobs, helping to build out the new infrastructure that our economy is depending on. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC techs, welders, fiber optic technicians, these jobs, they are all in demand like never before. And again, every graduate of America's Workforce Academy is guaranteed a job on a meta website. I first announced this program a few months ago, and I have been watching the response ever since. It's extraordinary. This is a nationwide, unprecedented fast track to a long-term career in a skilled training. trade. If you or your spouse or your kid or your grandkid are looking for a straight path
49:01 into a career with no cost at all, check out the opportunities for yourself at meta.com slash America's Workforce Academy. That's meta.com slash America's Workforce Academy. I'll tell you this, from these conversations I've had with people that are genuinely concerned or over climate, for the reasons you mentioned, I mean, people are scared. We're not getting that genie back in the bottle, and I think it's foolish for us just to slap that away and ignore it. We've got to address it. But when I have these conversations with these individuals, they really don't understand, a lot of them don't really understand climate to put these levels of CO2 into perspective in a geological time frame. Don't really understand climate.
49:49 They really don't understand energy. If you think we can run this whole world on just one type of energy, whether it's solar or renewables, you don't understand energy. And so I've always reflected, and what's really driving their passion for climate and this opposition that they're launching against energy, which is making all of our lives more difficult. And I think it's actually a good thing. I think the thing that's driving this is they want to make the world a better place. And that's the fire. And I think that is a beautiful thing. I want to keep that fire burning. but can we try and move that fire away from fear onto hope? And we are at a unique period of time
50:26 where we've cracked the code on shale. We've shown you in America how we can go from dependence to independence. Now we're going to go to energy abundance. We've shown that playbook can happen. Now we've got AI, and I think what AI is really going to help us do is expand our reach so we can deploy proven solutions
50:44 in a scalable way and also make sure that we tighten those controls so that we provide energy, that is going to translate to wealth. Because getting people energy is not the end solution. It's making sure they have the industrial demand to turn that energy into industry, into jobs, and into economic progress,
51:04 into education. All the things in are lift the standard of living. I mean, this is such, I feel like with AI, so what makes me so disappointed about the way the conversation is shifting with data centers is this is the tool that we've been looking at
51:17 to realize the full potential of all the amazing abilities that we've created. And I think at the end of day, that's going to be something that we're rallying behind. And I've never been more optimistic about our future,
51:28 but we've got to stay on the ball because right now it's slipping away from us. Do you read Harold Hamm's book, Game Changer? No, I haven't read that, but he's a legend. He was the youngest of 13. Yeah. Dirt floor.
51:40 Yeah. Grew up, Continental Energy. We've been working together for a couple of years now. And I it was for me when I really started to think about rhetoric and persuasion as it pertains to your industry, it was around horizontal drilling. And he was a pioneer in that, you know. He was one of a handful of guys who brought fracking to this country, to the world. And when you think about the confusion and the misperceptions and the outright nonsense,
52:14 surrounding that term, you know, that that's what people should think about. Like if if if you doubt the impact of $1.6 billion being spent against pipelines, think of the connotations of just that of the F word. Like it has such a bad rap and it's probably done more to improve the lives of more people. Tell me if I'm wrong, but has there been a breakthrough in your industry? more consequential than that? No, it's been an absolute game changer. And we're just starting to really deploy when you step back and you look at this technology
52:53 on a world stage. I'll tell you, the one thing I think that's really, how did we find ourselves in the situation? To be honest with you, I think during the Shell Revolution, we were too good at our jobs. We made energy too affordable. It was too reliable. Natural gas prices went from eight to two,
53:10 and it's easy for people to take that for granted. There's so many things that we take for granted in this country. Some people have taken it even further and taken it for granted, now thinking they can live in a world without it. And one of the things I think with Harold is a really great example of this, is that this, and Chris Wright is another person of this. A lot of people think that we're cigar smoking, price gouging, guess what, you know why we're in this business? We're in this business for people, okay? And we have a higher purpose. And we haven't spoken about that higher purpose. Our higher purpose is to empower humanity. And we want to bring technology. We want to empower
53:43 industry to make the world a better place to raise a standard living. All these benefits that Alex Epstein writes in his book, The Moral Case of False Fills. We believe that. Harold Hamm does not need to be doing this. Chris Wright does not need to be the Secretary of Energy and help steer this debate back to affordable, reliable energy, which are going to be good for people. He's impressive, man. Yeah. On every level. Absolutely. And there's thousands of leaders in this industry that have that higher purpose in mind. And we just need to make sure that we're balancing the purpose and the profits because businesses are what's going to make this make this world spin and you know we're if I think for us we've spent a lot of time not really talking too
54:27 much about the higher purpose and that's how we got there but we're talking about it now and I think we have a real opportunity to actually show major league benefits and there's seven billion people that are relying on us to figure this out and there's no bigger impact you can make than what you're doing sort of in these emerging markets. It's game-changing stuff. And if people would understand, like, how some people are using energy and it's changing their lives,
54:50 like with Energy Corps, we just did an installation, very simple, Mike. What's Energy Core? So Energy Core is a nonprofit that I started with my wife. And so think about, at EQT, as America's natural gas champion,
55:03 my goal is to bring energy abundance of the developed world. But that's going to leave out a lot of people. I mean, that will overflow and into LNG and get places. but emerging markets and bringing energy abundance to emerging markets, that's why we formed Energy Corps. So, you know, we can steer a little bit more towards the purpose,
55:23 what's going to make the biggest impact on an energy access basis? And the things that we're doing there, I mean, it's, I wish people that were opponents on fossil fuels could look at some of these things that we're doing because there's a lot of struggle out there that can be fixed with energy and the right equipment. And so Energy Corps is a vision for the world. it's let's bring energy abundance.
55:43 Let's get people to 50 megawatt hours equivalent. And that amount of energy use will translate to a GDP per capita of $50,000 per year per person. And we want to do it in 50 years. So that's our vision, 50, 50 and 50. And Scott Tinker, amazing, he's a real thought leader. Really frame that up for us. We're taking that. We're running with it.
56:06 And so what we do is we find partners, people that are out there working on these energy access projects. lots of them out there, we're vetting the projects, and then we're creating portfolios, so that energy businesses can say, hey, I care about energy problems that deal with propane. Like for us, indoor air pollution is a big one. Three million people, mostly women and children die prematurely every year because they're hooking with wood and dung. Like, this is the amount of people that died during COVID.
56:33 Like, this is completely unacceptable and completely preventable. And completely unknown. And completely unknown. Yeah. Right? I mean, people just, they just don't want to look at that. Yeah. I mean, so many energy poverty issues. So what we're going to be able to do is establish these partnerships, identify these projects, and then energy businesses and all businesses with equipment or tractors to help bring agriculture, want to put all this together, both the energy and the industry part to convert that energy into demand and build portfolios. So if you care about this region of the world and this type of energy problem or solution,
57:11 We can have those partnerships so you can craft their portfolio and then you can help steward and make sure that that 50-50 vision is achieved. So that's been a really awesome program that we've started. We've got a tremendous amount of support and we're really excited about it. And, you know, this to me is this is our higher purpose and this is a great reflection on what we're doing to make that happen. How substantial is energy core? I mean, I don't want to pry, but as foundations go, how much money are you talking about employees? deploying, deploying, and will there be a strategy in the overall concept to address some of these persuasive rhetorical challenges?
57:55 Yeah. So this is relatively new. So to me, this is something that the industry has always been, I mean, you talk to people, this is what we talk about, making the world a better place with energy. But for me, the catalyst to do something was when I saw her in 2023. the IEA puts out a report, or the EIA, the international one. Yeah. Puts out a report on the number of people living without access to electricity.
58:19 And for 20 years, they've been studying this. And for 20 years, we've constantly been able to reduce the number of people that are living without access to electricity. Except in 23, 2023, the number of people living without access to electricity increased for the first time in 20 years. And that to me was, I mean, this is peak ESG movement. This is peak, uh, clean energy focus on. the clean aspects of energy. And that to me was a sign, like what we're doing in the developed world is impacting people in the emerging markets.
58:51 And so that was like enough talking about this. We're going to actually start taking action. So we started Energy Corps in 24, really 25 is when we got it to a place where we could actually look for support. So fundraising has been fantastic. We've already raised over $20 million. But I think the real unlock is going to come with some of the partnerships we create with some of these government entities.
59:11 people that want to raise the quality of living, huge bang for the buck opportunities. We're going to be able to provide some of that energy expertise to make sure that we're executing the highest impact project. So this is early starting, but this is going to be a life work. And we're going to be really excited about continuing to publicize that. Well, good for you, man. If I can be of use. There's a collaboration on micro works.
59:35 Well, you know, you were in the audience last night. We're here at this Brush Creek Frontier Summit, a lot of luminary. are walking around a lot of politicians, a lot of industry leaders, and they're talking about a lot of things that I think are important, obviously. But last night, I had a chance to talk to the crowd, and I think you were out there. I talked about the Weeping Indian, remember? Yep.
01:00:01 From the old Keep America Beautiful campaign, which is a very effective campaign, you know, by every measurement over the years. The impact of that iconography had a wildly positive impact on changing the way people think and feel. I use it as an example of the importance of PR with regard to my pet issue, which is reinvigorating trades. But the truth is, it's perfect for you. If you think about, they used a weeping Indian to get people galvanized around the business of not polluting the plant. planet, where's the corollary that the energy industry can put forth to say, hey, just a year or two ago,
01:00:50 more people went without electricity than a year before that. That's the opposite of progress. Those people are dying. What's the energy industry going to do to let the masses know that far more people freeze to death every year than die from warming? I mean, it's not even comparable. We just, it just sure feels like we have to do something persuasive and affirmative if we're going to win the war of public opinion because that war is raging. Yeah, and I'll tell you, I think when people talk about shutting down hydrocarbons and only doing solar and wind, a lot of people I've heard it act like, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, no risk opportunity. And I mean, I was listening to Mark Cuban described this.
01:01:43 And he said, you know, I think he was having a debate with Vivek. And he said, you know, Vivek, even if we're wrong, we spend all this money on completely overhauling our energy infrastructure, which is it possible to take place. But even if we do this and we're wrong and climate isn't an issue, then our energy bills would just be a little bit more expensive. No, Mark. When you do this, people die. and they're not dying here where you can see it. There's certainly going to be a lot more hardships for Americans struggling with crippling energy prices,
01:02:15 which is what's happening right now. But how do we let people know that this is a global impact? And America is a leader in the world. And so I really think it's an important opportunity for us to shine the light on these opportunities. And allies and alliances and partners, I mean, this is such an amazing opportunity for us to work with these countries,
01:02:35 lift them up and create more allies that align with our principles to make them more free, prosperous society. Think of live aid. Think of farm aid. Think of the people, big-hearted people who come together to help suffering people in far off lands because maybe they don't have access to food on account of a sudden famine. Maybe there's been a natural disaster. Whatever it is, it just feels like, and I don't want to paint with too broad up brush, but it just feels like the same people who are the first to organize and raise money in the wake of something like that are simply not paying attention to the wholesale, destruction, and suffering that is being wrought every single day
01:03:25 because billions of people haven't had their energy revolution. I've said it to Harold Hamm. I've said it to everybody in the industry. No one disagrees, but I hope I live to see the day when the people who are providing the thing that I rely on more than anything else somehow convene to say, look, we're taking charge of this narrative.
01:03:51 We're going to take charge of this conversation. We can't spend 400 million when they're spending three, four times that and expect to win the war of public percentage. persuasion. Finally, I know we've talked about this before, but I, J.D. Vance, Scott Besson, and Dave McCormick, Senator in Pennsylvania, who you know well, have all told me they've seen data that clearly indicates a massive effort on China's part to shape public opinion in this country around AI and data centers. Massive. To the point where
01:04:31 the negatives are approaching 65, 70% in this country. But positives in China are at 85. Yeah. I can't prove it. I don't think it's a coincidence. What do you think? Yeah. I definitely think that there are people that will benefit from America,
01:04:50 not being a technological leader. It's foolish to think that they would not want to influence this outcome. I'll give you an example of an experience we had. I mean, this is a very similar playbook that we've seen take place in the anti-fossil movement. We hosted a field trip with a European delegation, and these were leaders from countries representing over 100 million people. And I remember in this field trip, and these were people from places that have banned hydrochalk fracturing are going complete net zero, bold, bold goals. But they wanted to come and see what hydrocarbons were all about. So we hosted them. We were happy to do it.
01:05:30 And I remember when we were driving to the field, to our location, one of them said, we've been driving for 20 minutes. And he said, when are we going to get there? I said, well, just so you know, you've been driving through the biggest natural gas field in the world for the last 20 minutes. You need even realize it. We get to locations, we get out of the bus. And this gentleman, I was watching him, and he was walking around location looking at everything. And I could tell he was getting really upset. And I went over to him and I said, hey, are you upset?
01:05:57 You look upset. Is there something that you see that we should fix? He says, oh, I'm upset. I'm pissed because this is what we were scared of. This is what we were blocking. And I could tell at that point, that's when a lot of the propaganda, which in the climate movement, Russia was big on shutting down shale and promote it. And China also on use renewables because they have such a grip on the supply chain for those.
01:06:22 So it's foolish to think that that's not a part of the story. But that does not absolve our responsibility. as industry to step up and address these concerns head on because I'll tell you, I mean, there were real concerns with our industry. Conserns over hydraulic fracturing were real. Like we did, we brought a lot of transparency to that, safeguarded our operations. And in 2016, the EPA came out and said that was safe. Then the comment went to pipelines, concerns over that. Secretary Granholm says pipelines are a safe way of moving products.
01:06:52 Then methane emissions were the next big thing. Guess what we did with those, Mike? knocked methane emissions out of the park. We need to continue that track record of hearing people's concerns, noise, light, water use for data centers. All these things, I think, will be debunked. But we need to move people towards this AI is going to allow us to achieve abundance for our country. So let's be selfish about that.
01:07:13 But let's also have a big heart and know that this is going to help people outside of this country as well. Well, not to belabor the point, but what you're saying is a guy from Europe who had basically been told that what you do is a blight on the land came to see what you did and what you do and there was no evidence to confirm anything he'd been told. And that kind of cognitive dissonance, I think, I mean, it's delicious. It's like when Yeltson went into that Randalls, right,
01:07:41 years ago and saw all the food on the shelves, all the food, pudding pops, right? Everything, and he wept because he knew that's it. The Soviet Union's finished. because we don't have that abundance or anything approaching it in our grocery stores. He had to see it, though, right? Yeah.
01:08:03 The guy had to see the pudding pops in the frozen food section and he had to see them in sufficient quantity to understand exactly what he was fighting. And what he was fighting was prosperity and abundance. And if you know that that's your enemy, good luck fighting it. Yeah. I think you're exactly right to frame the whole conversation that way.
01:08:27 If the thing that is fundamentally for sale is abundance, while you're either forward or against it. Yeah. And people need to understand. Like the pie is bigger. I mean, when people talk about losing jobs, corporate America, there's a lot of things that aren't fun. I mean, there's a lot of parts of my job that I am so thrilled to be able to hand that over to AI.
01:08:47 But if people would think about the fact that as business, like if we can bring abundance to the world, then we're gonna increase global GDP five times over. That's a massive growth opportunity. And how about, instead of, you know, saving some GNA, how about we take those efficiency gains and we think about how we can grow this opportunity set that we have? And I think that's gonna be one of the most amazing opportunities
01:09:12 that AI is gonna allow us to capture. And I'll tell you one thing that I've seen, just going from a small organization to where we're at now, we're at now is, you know, as companies get larger, they get less efficient, it's just naturally it happens. You know, AI is really going to be a quality control to lock in efficiency gains and allow companies to get better as they got bigger. And that's a really amazing opportunity. And that is another opportunity for how we're going to achieve abundance. As companies are going to get better, but they're going to be more efficient and that's going to make goods and services more affordable
01:09:44 and abundant for Americans. Landman. How important? I think Landman is a great show. I haven't watched all the series, but I did watch the first episode. And I'll tell you, it was a good depiction of me. That was my experience. You know, white boy from out east coming to work and we had a Mexican crew.
01:10:05 And it's exactly what happened with me. And I had some of my working mates. They took me in, Fed, you made you part of the family. And I thought that was a really great representation. But like anything on TV, it's, It's embellished a little bit, but it is a great, I think, anything that we can do to communicate this industry is here and we're doing some pretty amazing work,
01:10:29 I think is a positive because when I go back to Boston, still to this day, people like, wait, Tobe, what are you doing? You do oil and gas, it's just a big deal. You know, not a lot of people are aware of just the great work that the hundreds of thousands of energy workers of this country do every day, so I'm a big fan of that. And it shows you, you know,
01:10:49 You know, it's a really exciting industry to be a part of. What, if you could, with a flick of your fingers, dispel one misconception around oil and natural gas that would just land with meaning with every American, what would it be? What would be on the refrigerator if Toby Rice were writing it? Two things, what drives us is purpose and profits. And I think those two things, we don't get enough credit. for what really drives us on not bring it higher purpose. That means every day I wake up and my 1600 employees and our 29,000 contractors are waking up thinking
01:11:29 about how we can make the energy we produce more affordable, more reliable, and cleaner to reduce pollution in this world. That is a big part that drives us. And also the profitability part, I think, is something that's really important. I mean, we're talking about delivering sustainable solutions. you know, the ESG movement was all about sustainability.
01:11:52 Well, if you ask me, the one thing that's critical to any sustainable solution is profitability. And we want to stand on our own two feet and give the most affordable, reliable products. So I think people knowing that we're driven by purpose and we're driven by profits, I think is something that we want people to understand. You know, this whole ESG thing, is it kind of done?
01:12:16 I mean, this is environmental, social governance, I think. Yeah. Right? And like three years ago, every, every major company I knew had an ESG officer. Yeah. I think there might even be one here at this thing. But they don't seem to be as prolific as they were.
01:12:36 Yeah, it's a lot, it's a lot quieter, but I'll tell you this. ESG is dormant. ESG, the climate movement, it's dormant. It's not dead. and it's showing its head in different forms. I think this data center pushback is an example of that. And so it's something that we just need to continue to be great corporate citizens and continue to communicate on the benefits that we're doing.
01:13:01 But for me, when I was at Sarah Week this year, which is probably one of the best industry conferences in the U.S. health in Houston, I remember thinking of myself, man, this is really awesome that we're talking about pipeline projects that are going to be filled with the most affordable energy solution with natural gas and not just talking about pie in the sky hydrogen. And I was thinking about, man, it's only been two years and it's shifted like that. But then I thought to myself, it's only been two years.
01:13:31 And we've seen that shift. Bill Gates. Yeah. Three years? Yeah. But, you know, I think that the mantra is this. I think we need to have a balanced approach when we talk about energy. I mean, certainly the Biden administration was really amplifying the clean aspects of energy.
01:13:44 and the Trump administration is really hammering the affordable and reliable parts of the energy system. I think we always need to keep all of those in balance. And the great thing is with the energy solutions we have available, like natural gas, we can do both. You know, people are surprised. If I've said it a million times over the last five years, I need to say it another million times. The reason why the United States is the world leader in lowering emissions is because of one thing. Majority of emissions came from replacing coal with natural gas. Okay, that's an example of a more affordable energy solution that happens to be cleaner and equally as reliable evolving our energy ecosystem.
01:14:23 And we have tremendous amount of opportunities. And I think that's going to be something that when we want to create a fair and equitable society, not just for us in the developer world, but for the billions around the world, a balanced approach on affordable, reliable, and clean is going to be the winning recipe. And I hope that that's the right balance. It's a balanced approach is what I think the lesson we need to learn from this is. Is it accurate still that China and India combined are opening a coal-fired plant every week for the next 30 years? Absolutely. Yeah. It should, you know, when people think about the race for AI and how important it is for us to win this, I mean, this race is happening with or without us.
01:15:05 Like, we need to be in this. And a lot of people talk about the race. It's not going to be about the apps or the chips or the models it put out. It's going to come down to power generation. And when you look at what's happening in China, just the reliable forms of power generation last year, they added 60 gigawatts of reliable power gen. That's coal, natural gas, and nuclear. In the United States, we added six.
01:15:27 That's a problem. They built and delivered 982 ships. We built and delivered seven. Yeah, man. Well, we're not going to solve it here. It's a beautiful ranch. I shot about a thousand rounds last night. Go down to the range if you haven't.
01:15:48 It's amazing. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, a raccoon on a roof? Really led to your demise? I'd be a fool if I didn't ask for at least some detail. Yeah, I mean, in the chimney sweep game, a lot of people think the biggest...
01:16:08 Sorry, in the tree. You think you're going out there to, like, sweep a chimney and clean it out, and that's it. But, like, the number one call-up? we're getting out there is animals nesting. And so I got called out on this roof. And in South Shore, Massachusetts, we had some pretty steep pitches. And I'm up there with a harpoon, you know, a 12-foot harpoon slamming it down. And I look down in there, I see this ball of fur. And this flu was about
01:16:30 six inches in diameter. And I see this ball of fur coming up. I'm like, man, that's a big squirrel, because it's squirrels. Yeah. This thing got a little bit closer. It got even bigger. And out popped the six-inch flu was a raccoon the size of a bear. Now, I'm sitting here. I'm sitting here with 12-foot harpoon. That's a long-distance weapon in hand-thane combat. And he got the best of me, and I almost fell off the roof. So, yeah, that was my butter, that was the, you know, the butterfly effect. Oh, yeah. That was it. And that's set us here. Think about that. Right. Well, look, man, I think about it as there's, there's a long list of things you can try to control and maybe control. And there are plenty of things you can anticipate, obviously, in business. You've got to be smart in a thousand
01:17:11 in different ways. But nobody, nobody anticipates the raccoon coming up at them through the chimney and the chaos that might follow. Yeah. And I want to do a great job in this role, not just for our communities, our country, and the world. I don't want to go back on that roof and sweep those chimneys, which is a nice motivator, too. I guess final final is what's pending right now that you think is really consequential? What can people do if they want to just get a little, maybe more educated, maybe through energy core or maybe through your own company?
01:17:51 Yeah. Like, what's the next? Is there a keystone that's out there that's in the balance that you're worried about that needs to be blessed or approved that is going to have an impact if it doesn't work? Yeah. Listen, we cannot be silence about these issues. We've got to be vocal. So what can all of us do to help bring abundance?
01:18:11 into this world, number one. If we demand it, we'll supply it, and then we can achieve it. Demand energy abundance, demand that your energy bills get lower. It's absolutely ridiculous that our energy bills are up 40 percent, despite historic amounts of production, demand your energy bills get lower. Demand that policies that are put in place that promote energy scarcity are replaced with policies that promote energy abundance. To whom? To your politician. To your politicians, because right now, one of the biggest opportunities that we have in this country is getting permit reform done because we live in a country that takes an act of Congress to get a pipeline built. We own that pipeline, Mountain Valley Pipeline.
01:18:51 It has gotten so difficult to get things built. You have situations where China can build 10 times the amount of energy infrastructure than we can. So demand that those policies get put in place. And then the other thing I'd say is demand that your leaders embrace an attitude of abundance. We are not lambs waiting to be slaughtered. We have control over this. these energy issues that we're dealing with completely self-inflicted. Demand that your leaders embrace an attitude of abundance. And for the people, that's all of us. And for the people that actually have resources, time, treasure, talent, demand, like help us supply abundance, invest in energy infrastructure, invest in energy production, invest in energy innovation, invest in the develop world,
01:19:33 invest in emerging markets alongside us at energy core is a great place. And if we demand it, We will supply it and we will achieve this. And I think the key thing that people need to know is like, this world is going to change and there are forces that are shaping our world. We cannot sit aside and let these conversations take place. We've got to start being vocal about this. And there's no better place than to complain about your energy bills. And I think this is the really important moment of time now that, as I mentioned, it's been too
01:20:04 affordable, it's been too reliable. It's not the case anymore. This is an amazing catalyst where with a rise, with AI, these are just catalyst to wake people up and realize you've been a frog in a pot of water on the stove and that temperature has been increasing. Your energy bills have been going up, not before Iran, before data centers, this is the time to act. And the same thing as it relates to labor and making sure we have the workforce that's going to build the infrastructure that gets us out of there. But it's not going to be easy, but I will promise you it will
01:20:34 be worth it. And brighter days are ahead for us. I'm glad you're on the case. I know you're friends with Joe Manchin, I'm going to try and grab him and have a conversation. What should I ask him? Well, don't ask him about frogs. No frogs? Maybe that's one, do that one off camera. Okay. Joe Manchin's been a fantastic energy leader for us. He understands the human side of energy, and he's just got a tremendous grip. And, you know, like I said, Mountain Valley Pipeline would not have got built without his support. And I'll tell you the importance of that pipeline, because the whole time, for eight years, I mean, just so people, your, your users understand, Mountain Valley Pipeline was probably one of the most controversial energy infrastructure
01:21:16 built in this country over the last, call it 10 years. And in the wake of the pipeline cancellation movement that began in 2018, we saw over 7 BCF a day, so over almost 10% of the country's natural gas supply, energy infrastructure was blocked to cancel the repose except for one, Mountain Valley Pipeline. And Mountain Valley Pipeline was a $3 billion. pipeline project that was going to take three years to get built from West Virginia and take gas to Virginia and North Carolina, the southeastern part of the U.S. And that pipeline took eight years and over $8 billion to get built.
01:21:53 And, you know, fortunately, Joe Manchin was able to get some legislation passed because this project had their permits issued and revoked three times. I mean, it's a broken permit system. And it's not just hard to get pipeline infrastructure built. If you think it's hard to get a pipeline built, try building a transmission line. If you think it's hard to get a 10-acre oil and gas site permitted, try building a 10,000-acre wind farm or solar facility. It's hard for all industry to get built. And this is one thing that is an issue that we've been waiting for permit reform, meaningful permit reform, to take place.
01:22:29 And I think over the next few months, this is our opportunity. So if you want to get vocal in D.C., that's the number one issue. Let's get back to a place where political force takes the backseat and market forces can drive affordable, reliable, clean energy solutions to consumers. Couldn't have said better. Really appreciate your time. All right. Thanks, Mike. Toby Rice.
01:22:48 Appreciate it. This episode is over now. I hope it was worthwhile. Sorry it went on so long, but if it made you smile, then share your saddeme. In the way that people do Take some time to go on and leave us a review. I hate to ask, I hate to beg, I hate to be a nudge, but in this world the advertisers really like to judge
01:23:32 You don't need to write a bunch, just a line or two. All you've got to do is leave a quick five-star review. All you've got to do is leave a quick five-star review. quick five star review and not all you've got to do is leave a quick five star review definitely not too all you got to do is leave a quick five star review we need five all you got to do is leave a quick even if you hate it five star especially if you hate you oh thank you
There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click any sentence in the transcript to leave one.