Should Young Riders Go Straight to the WorldTour? | THEMOVE+
00:00There's always been these exceptions, but the exceptions are not the norm.Remko is not the norm.Paul Sexas is not the norm.And this conversation I had with this guy yesterday,I went into the, I said, you know, there's a lot of guys who, and especially now,the way the teams are structured, right?I mean, the big teams have their development teams.Let them be there.
00:24And let them, you know, you can switch them during the season to professional races as long as it's not world,and they can race with the professionals, you know.But let them be in the development team.And this guy said two years.And I mean, I can see it.I'm not against it.I think it should be.You can't make it.
00:44One year has to be mandatory, Spencer.Because you come, there are guys who start racing in the cadets and then the juniors.And they're so strong and they're physically advanced towards their competitors.and they just take off and ride on their own or they destroy the field.But they don't know how to race.They get to the pros and they get their ass kicked.Sorry for the expression.Because they don't know how to ride a bike.
01:14They don't know how to race.Everybody, welcome out to the Move Plus.I'm Spencer Martin.I'm here with Johann Berniel.We just broke down the new 27 Tour de France route yesterday with Lance Armstrong.Today, Johan, we're flying solo for our weekly show.It's been a little quiet this week on the racing front,but we still have to cover the Veneto Classic
01:36and the finish of the tour at Guangxi.Some interesting stuff that could affect us next season.So we'll talk about that.We got some transfers.We got some points drama.I'm going to be asking you about all of this.But I want to start with transfers because,I was surprised.
01:52You've been talking about this.Richard Carapesta Inescent thing for a long time, right?for months at this point.I think just off to the tourand I started tohint at it. Yeah. And this wasthe big news of last week. I'm like,this is old news if you've been listening to
02:08Johan. So clearly some peoplenot paying attention. Hopefully they'll pay attentionnow. But I thinkwe covered on the last one. I like itfor Inneson. Not great for EF.I don't know. I thinkwe also hinted that EFpotentially having some
02:23budget cuts. You just got to, I thinkVotters came out and said this is just a money-saving move.We had to do it.And then you think, well, that's a big hole, right, to Phil Richard Carapaz?He kind of is the team.You could have some guys internally step up in Healy, Nielsen Palace.But to replace Richard Carapaz, you got to get creative too.Because if you don't have a lot of money, what are you going to do?
02:44I think a lot of fans and a lot of Reddit commenters, forget this.Like, okay, so let's say budget is constricted.You've got to replace one of the top riders in the sport.it's not as easy as just calling up Jonas Fendergarde and saying,hey, you want to come ride for me?Like, you've, these, the prices for riders without issues are incredibly high,like shockingly high.So you've got to get creative.
03:09EF has gone out and signed Teo Gaganhardt,Zerreuxa Tali winner to be their GC leader, question mark.He hasn't finished inside the top 10 of a grand tour for six seasons.So you'd assume they're getting a deal on them, right?I think so, Spencer.Obviously, we all know that Dale Gagens,I think there's two different periods in Theo Gagin's heart's career, right?One before his terrible crash in the Giro.
03:39I think when he crashed and broke his femur, if I'm not mistaken,I don't know, but it must have been a complicated fracture.I remember him being then on a really good level.I think it was the Gero.that Remko was good and then he had to abandon with COVID, I think.Yes.So, 2023, I believe.Was it 2023?
04:03Okay.He was still on ENAOs then, right?Obviously, you know, sign a rider after such a big injury, it's hit or miss.I think the negotiations have been going on already before the crash, with him going totrek or then then I think it was still trek then um so track obviously honored their theircommitment with theo giganhart but you know we have to be honest it has not been uh great sincei don't exactly know um what happened not i mean i compared a bit with uh with with frum you knowChris Frome before and after his terrible crash in the Dofine,
04:52different guy.Theo Ginghardt, it's similar.It's not as bad because Chris Frome was really badand never came back to a level,except at one third place in the up the West stage.So it's a bit similar.So obviously, I think you're right.EF got creative.
05:15It's a gamble.It's a gamble, but it's actually also one of the only options they have.I would assume that after, let's see if Theo Gaghan Hart, I mean, his last seasons were his last three seasons probably, right?So, 2004.So that's, did he crash in 2003?Yes.So ended his season in May because he didn't come back.I mean, there's not a great line of success of riders suffering major orthopedic lower body injuries and coming back to my level.
05:52It doesn't happen that much.So you could say, you could say, okay, 2024 is the year of the comeback.I'm seeing here there's a few top ten places.He got 19-2 of Romandie.You know, he got a few top ten places in stages on other races.but then in 2025 yeah more or less the same kind of third of the third in the two of Sloveniaso there's a few night in the tour of Algarve and then in 2006 I don't know what happenedbut I don't remember seeing him in the front so no no 2025 was definitely not not a single
06:41top 10 place. So obviously, I think we have to consider Teo Gaganhardt before and after the crash.It's a gamble. Maybe a change of environment will make a change. Obviously, and for sure,with change in management, a little track, there was most likely not a spot anymore for Teo Gaganheart,because that was a look at Gertzellena decision back in the day.And I think EF gives him a chance.So obviously it's good for the motivation of the rider that there's a team who believes in you still.And is that going to make a change?I hope so for him.
07:25I think, you know, he's a good rider.He's a really good guy.But it's not easy to come back from a big injury like this.Yeah.And they sign.And it may be, I mean, maybe it'll be great.But they're probably paying him an amount of money that means it's all upside for them, right?You can't have had many suitors.
07:49And if you're not paying him a ton of money and he has a comeback, you look like a genius.If he doesn't, it's not really your fault.Yeah, I would assume it's probably a base salary and then bonuses,based on performances, which is, you know, if you're a writer like Dale Gagin-Heartan,and you still believe you can do it, that's worth a shot, you know.I mean, if you're, that makes you more motivated.Yeah.Yeah.
08:13So and then if you look at their other pickups,Yvon Sosa, who's been on a quipo-current farmer for the last two years.I mean, Ivan Sosa can win, can win a stage, like a mountain top, a mountain top finish stage.And for example, two of Burgos.Or, you know, there's this this one day race there in France where you almost won and thenfinally didn't win.But, you know, he's a climber, pure climber, can't do anything else and can win stages in second level races.But at the World War II level, I don't see it happening.
08:51I don't think Yvonne Sosa.I mean, he's already also must be in his 30s, no, Ivan Sosa?He's got to be.He's been around forever.He is 28 years old.Only.Okay.I thought he was crazy.
09:05Me too.And then there are other pickups kind of interesting.So Tobias Baer from Alpacin, I like him.He's a strong Osher.Oh, Bayer, yeah, yeah.And then this guy, email Herzog, world junior champion.He's coming over from Red Bull, Bora, Hanswer.Yeah.
09:20That's kind of a red flag.Exactly.You're taking the odds out of my mouth.German guy, big talent.If Red Bull doesn't want to pursue him and keep him, then there's probably something.Is it a personality issue?I would think, I've seen.do some really good things on the bike.
09:40He actually has a younger brother who's really good also, like really good.Carl Hartzach.I think he was junior this year, makes the switch to the 123.I think he's European champion on the road juniors.So, but yeah, that was a, he was world champion in Australia, if I'm not mistaken.The year that, was it the year that Remko won.Remko won, yep.Yeah, 2022, yeah, Australia.
10:06I mean, this is kind of a crazy result.So, 2024, he's not very old.And he gets seventh at Milano-Torino, which is a hard race.You know, like, yeah, it's got to be, you think it's got to be personality.I think so.Yeah.There must be a conflict, a conflict in personalities.Because if it's a huge talent and he fits into the team, there's no way Red Bull is going to let a young German writer with that talent go.
10:34There must be something else going on.just top 10 at European champs too.So that doesn't make any sense that they would let him go.But I like to pick up for EF.I mean, you got to get creative, right?We're getting as creative as possible.And then Nicholas Malesi from Inios.Do you remember this guy?
10:54He was on Arcade last year.He got...I don't.I know Mulesi, but that that guy was on...That guy was on Mobistar in Afghanistan.not mistaken, he goes to Sudal.That's the other Melesi.I mean, I know because he's the son of, I raised with his father.
11:13Okay.Marco Melesi, I think is his father.I mean, this guy, so he comes over from Archaia with Kevin Vucklon, and he just won theKrono de Nations U-23.Time trials, like clearly a good talent, but then also like a bit of a, it's like,well, why is Enios letting a 22-year-old time trial talent?walk out the door.You know, it's, but, but if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're, if you're in a position
11:41where you kind of can't be asking these questions, you just got to take them because.Yeah, I like to, I like to watch, I like to see these results from, look for, I'm justgoing through the results here of when Emil Gars, Hefsok won, the world championship isJuniors. Second was Antonio Morgado. I remember it was a, it was a very close sprint.Then a Belgian guy, Vlad van Mechelen, who's now on Bahrain, who did the Tour de France,pretty good writer. And then fourth, fourth was a fourth was a very close sprint.Paul Manier in that race.Yeah.
12:09Yeah.Wow.And the fifth,fifth,Artem Smith.Yeah.Yeah.Interesting.
12:14You know,these are fascinating results to go look at.Fascinating.Yeah.Jan Christian 12th.Interesting.Interesting.And Artem Schmidt was a big talent,
12:26huh?I mean,he's still only 22.But it's also crazy with that we're at an era where there's a lot of these guys whojust mentioned are like 22.and they're like, you know, they're on their second contract.You know, they got to prove themselves.Like, what is going on?
12:40Yeah.This is insanity.Yeah.No, I mean, it's crazy.Yesterday I had a very long talk with an ex-collarine of mine,who's the manager of a big World Tour team.And, you know, he's, you know, he's been in the sport for a very long time.And, you know, we were talking mainly about this, you know, like this, this tendency.
13:01I mean, it's not a tendency.It's a reality already.you know, the young, young juniors who are obsessed with,and then the agents who are pushing, pushing, pushing to get for juniors to go to the world tour.And we kind of, I mean, people are going to call us old-fashioned, which we are,me and him, you know, I'm not talking about you.But I think, I said, you know, I said, you know, as a minimum,the UCI should make the under 23 category at the,
13:33least mandatory for one year, one year. And he said, make it two years. Two years.That's crazy. There's still only 21. And then you imagine a policy success was a new 23.It doesn't really. I mean, there are exceptions. But you know, Remko, Remko started this,this trend, right? But actually, you know what? There's always been exceptions, Spencer. Look,A little story, right?We're getting off track, but I was, when I was in Belgium, my son was racing a race and we,it was in the hometown of the sadly passed away, Frank Finderbrook, who in my opinionis probably the biggest talent I have ever seen personally.
14:26We all know what happened, sad story, but I was telling, and his father was my mechanic.on Lotto and then also on the national team.So I spoke with his dad and with his mom quite a bit.And, you know, we watched Tour of Lombardy together.And Frank van der Broek, when he was 19, he passed, he went, he went to the pros.Didn't go to the, I think he, I don't think he was 123 at all, or maybe one year.But anyways, he was 19 when he passed pro.And his first race was the Tour of Mediterranean, which back in the days was a high-level race
15:01in the spring in France.And Frank van derbyrück in his second or third race as a pro, which was the second or third stage, won the stage in Marseille on the, on, there's a climb like it's called the Citadel of Marseille.It's like a cobbled uphill.And he dropped and beat none other than Moreno, Argentine, who was like the king, the king of those kind of finishes.Yeah, yeah.You know, like I think three or three times the Leibaston Leash winner, ex-world champion.So, you know, there's always been these exceptions, but the exceptions are not the norm.Remko is not the norm.
15:40Paul Sexas is not the norm.And there's this conversation I had with this guy yesterday.He was, was, was, went into, I said, you know, there's, there's a lot of guys who, and especially now, the way the teams are structured, right?I mean, the big teams have their development teams.Let them be there.And let them, you know, you can switch them during the season to professional races as long as it's not world tour.And they can race with the professionals, you know.But let them be in the development team.
16:08And this guy said two years.And I'm, I mean, I can see it.I'm not against it.I think it should be.Yeah.You can't make it.But one year has to be mandatory, Spencer, because you come.there are guys who start racing in the cadets and then the juniors and they're so strong
16:27and they're physically advanced towards their competitors and they just take off and rideon the wrong or they destroy the field but they don't know how to race they get to the prosand they they get their ass kicked sorry for the expression because they they don't know how toride a bike they don't know how to race okay you're bringing up there's a lotlot. There's a lot here. You are bringing up a lot of good points. I was just talking to aworld tour team who was talking about this exact phenomenon that these guys do not know how to race.So a couple, couple things here. I think I'm picking on the guy a lot recently, but like QuinnSimmons, he skipped U 23. I don't think that served him well from a racing perspective. I think
17:12he would be a better racer if he would have gone U23. You see a lot. And actually, as you as you weretalking about you see a lot of talented young.Riders skip U23 and stagnate and really struggle because you get into a situation and you don'tknow what to do and you don't ever like you give up on yourself before exactly should um it'sfunny too you mentioned you're talking about this it sounds a lot like basketball in the u.s used to beable to go from high school to the NBA you can't anymore and do you know who made that decisionthe NBA teams said we don't want these high schoolers because we're getting these guys and theydon't know. They don't have time to develop them, right? You're a professional team traveling
17:54around all over the country. You don't have time to practice, really. So they make them go to collegefor at least one years, which is kind of similar to the rule you're talking about. The only thingI wonder about is if you're 19, would that even be legal in Europe? Like, you know, I would probablyrather make a million euros a year than like 10,000 euros a year. Yeah, of course. Yeah, you can'tgo against that. Yeah. And that there's the, of course, there's the race. There's a race amongst all theteams that everybody has fears of missing out on the next REMCO, you know, or the nextPaul sex us. And there's this tendency now that these young guys. And then for me, personally,one of the big problems is, and they won't like it when I say that, but I'm not afraid to
18:37say it, the agents, the managers, the writers agents. Yes. It's not out of control, man. It's, they'reall at the races. You know, they're scouting cadets.and they're signing juniors.And I compare them, honestly, I compare them with vultures.They're vultures.You know, they are, they, they, they sign these, this big pool of young riders and theyjust pick, you know, if they sign 15 and finally two of them make it, you know,but they're pushing these, these juniors already, which I think is, is really, really not good.
19:15I mean, what you're talking about is, you know,It's exactly like basketball in the U.S. 20 years ago.Yeah.Yeah.It's exactly like it.Yeah.It doesn't really serve the riders if you think about it.And you know, there are agents.
19:28There are agents who think about what's best for the rider.But there's a lot of agents.They run a factory.They run a factory.They have way too many riders.They have good contacts with certain teams.But it's a numbers game.You know, it's like they don't think about.
19:47you know, the future of that guy.Because if this young writer doesn't make it okay, up to the next one, you know?Yep. Yep.Which, yeah.Yeah.Interesting.You know, but the thing, I was always a bit skeptical of you, 23.And maybe we're getting out of bounds here a little bit.
20:04I mean, maybe it's not like this anymore.I always viewed it as kind of a place where naughty stuff happened or could happen easier than at theworld tour level.So, you know, because you still just.if we're being coy about it, you see a lot of guys who are really good as U-23 and then weren't goodas pros, if you know what I'm saying.Like, I guess if everything's now housed though inside a world to our team, maybe there'smore oversight than there was like 10, 15 years ago.
20:32Yeah, for sure, for sure.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.That has changed.You know, another thing, I mean, maybe that's a crazy idea, but, you know, if I say,make it mandatory to be at least one year in the other 23 category, another thing to be, as a junior,it's you you're not allowed to have a manager you're not allowed to have an agent
20:49honestly that would probably that would serve the runners a lot better that would bethat would be really good i know i know people who are in charge of development team spencerjuniors and and under 23 and they are frustrated so frustrated because they say you know it gotto a point this is getting on i mean we're not anyway i think it's an interesting topic for us totalk about uh we are not allowed to talk to the writers anymorethey have to talk to the agents.Yeah.About everything.
21:20About the calendar, about everything.I mean, you know, that's, that's, that's insane, man.That's, uh, and it, it happens.I mean, I know it happens.I mean, I have firsthand witness, witnesses to, uh, to, to back it up.And it's not just one.There's, it's, it's a general, a general trend.So, um, maybe something to look into.
21:43As a junior, you're not allowed to have.have an agent.Yeah.I mean, all of these actually, you've got to convince me in this because this teamI was talking to, they have a lot of young riders that you would think would have panned intobig stars and have just really struggled.And like they don't know, you would be shocked at the stuff they don't know when they turnprofessional, which is a problem.
22:06And now I forgot where I was.But you know, think about picnic.We were talking about picnic last week.I was walking around all week thinking, you know, maybe that.type of management isn't even compatible with modern cycling because as you say, the team probablya lot of them, the riders are then ultra managed by their agent and it's not like you're tellinga rider what they're going to do. It's more of like you come to an agreement about what they'regoing to do and you wonder how much picnic has been caught out because of that.
22:37Well, I mean, coming back on that topic, Spencer, I've seen also, I don't know if you saw it,I saw the counter response of, for example, a guy like John Dakin Cope, who's been on that team for a long time.And he said, you know, I've been on this team for such a long time.I've been here.I left.I came back.You know, I can't see what, I can't see what, whatever they have said that this has happened.So I think it's somewhere in the middle.
23:05I think that report was, was very one-sided.I've also-Well, we should say it was one.one side of because they refused to cooperate.Yeah.Okay.That's true.That's also true.
23:16That's also true.But let's not forget.So the journalist that was giving those interviews, Tests Sonneveld, is, let's not forget.He's the general manager of a Dutch cycling team, beat cycling, B-E-A-T cycling.And then the key witness, basically one of the only ones who was named, this guyMartin Tusfeld, who was for a number of years on picnic or DSM or whatever it was called,you know, was there for six or seven years.Two times he renewed his contract.
24:00So, you know, I mean, it's that bad.Okay, if you have no other chance, no other choice, then you kind of have to, right?But I've been told that this Martin Tusfeld is now the sports psychologist of beat cycling.So is there another conflict of interest there in that reporting?We'll let the listeners decide.Exactly.Yeah.On EF is kind of interesting.
24:26So they lose Carapace, right?That's a problem.They lose Michael Valgrin.And you might think, that's not a big deal, right?He was their fourth most productive writer this year.So two of their top four riders are gone for 2027.But they also lose, they also lose asking.Green, right? I mean, I think I mean,
24:45Asgreen didn't have a great season, butterrible, terrible season. But yeah, they losehim. Yeah. Yeah.But they lose Michael, Marker,Beloki, Marker Bloky, big talent.That is a big, that is a big loss.You know, someone like Michael Vagrin,he was like, you know, he was like off the back
25:01for a few years. So it shows you like maybeCasper Asgrain could come back.But, you know, he wins a stageat the zero. He almost won two.You know, think like, well,that's not that big a deal. It's like 40,in the sport that have won grand tour stages this year.It's not that many.
25:16So you're one of like the ultra elite riders in the sport.So it's hard, right?Like the whole point of everything that we're here to do is to win.And there's like not that many riders that win when you start to look at it.So some of like Michael Valgrant quite, quite valuable.Should we take a quick break and then we'll talk about some of the racing and then we got some points drama too.We'll be right back.So, Johan, now that we have a fascinating conversation.
25:43Under our belt, let's talk about it.The last racing we'll talk about for a little bit.We do have cyclercross kicking up into gear this weekend.But since we last spoke, Brandon McNulty gets a big monkey off his back.Wins in the world champions jersey at the Veneto Classic.Hopefully I'm getting the name of that race right.I think that's the last one.It was the last road race on Saturday to finish.
26:07In Europe.In Europe, yeah.In Europe.Yes.Yeah, they like the results.rolling in. It's like, when are these points going to be finalized? But McNulty wins. I mean,it was in a super impressive win. It was a really well designed course. It's quite interesting.It's a beautiful area. If you've never been to Besanac, Del Grappa, get there immediately.
26:27But this is, it's not the biggest race, but this is a big milestone for him. To win in theWorld Champion's Jersey before the season ends is huge. And he's been trying so hard.And he was, you know, he was up there, all those races. He was up there. So,You know, listen, at least he gets the, what did they call it?The bad luck of the rainbow jersey.The rainbow curse.The rainbow curse, yeah.So that's off the back already, you know, like.
26:59And no, I mean, he was the best, he was the best rider.The way he dropped that guy from, you know, X.Who's actually in great shape also.Charming.He was a charming.He was already in great shape in Canada.Yep.He's got a great season.
27:13So he, yeah, yeah.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, really nice for him, for him to see him win. By the way, that race is organized. I mean, that race and actually the whole week, there was the Veneto Classic. Then there was, I think, a few days before, there was Giro del Veneto. Yes. And then another race that's all organized by Pippo Potsato. Yeah, that's what I heard. Yeah. Kind of crazy. Yeah. And to show you how much the sport has changed. So he does the world championships in the late September. He's raised one, two, three, four, five, six, six, seven.seven times since winning the world champions jersey.That's,I feel like Lance would have been like on a yacht or something, you know, relaxing.But I kind of like it.Is it like keeps them clean?We know Brandon's staying out of trouble.
27:58Like if he's racing, he's not slipping into,sometimes guys win really big races and then it can take them a while to get back upthe speed because it's overwhelmed.Like the amount of commitments are overwhelming,but this is keeping them focused.I like to see that.No, I mean, listen, he really wanted to prove,show this jersey. I mean, hats off to him.
28:17They're the, you know, greatlast two weeks of the season.And, uh, right. Yeah, as,as you say, he could have said, okay,guys, I'm not racing anymore. I have this worldworld championships jersey. See you next year, you know?Yeah. And everybody would have understood it.But, um,
28:33hats off to him. He kept trying. I think he was once.Was he not second once also in a race?Like a, a close one, uh,Agostini.Second there to.Coppa Gastoni, no?Coppao de Janeiro.So Paul Lepera, who's super fast.
28:48So, and he was fifth at Lampartia.I mean, these are good results.Yeah, no, great shape, great shape.Yeah, I love to see that.I think it's going to, he said his goal was to win a tour to front stage in the rainbow jersey.I think he could probably do that and more.I mean, the guy is a seriously good writer.They have to take Brandon McNulty to the tour, man.
29:08He's an unbelievable teammate.You know, if you're on Pogast.charge team, it's not thatit's not that unrealisticto win a stage if you'reon that team.You know, sometimes you have, I mean, look atDel Toro this year.
29:28There's been, they've beennot a rider. I mean, who else haswon a stage? DidAdam Yeats win a stage?This year or the year before?No, no, no, in other years.He definitely won stages in other years, yeah.When you, the tour is maybe,
29:43But, you know, it's possible if you're on Pogacha's team that you win a stage because you're almost higher chance of winning.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah, because you don't have Pagatra racing against you.So right there, you're at a huge advantage.But, yeah, they got to take them.I assume they will.I don't really know.
30:01We'll see.The Brandon, great rider, great to see him winning.I was shocked to see this.I guess it makes sense.But the team, you know, all these races are in Italy.leave. That's where the service course is.Then they go like straight to a camp.So like you finish the season.
30:17It's like, look who comes to say.Bobby's back. Sorry.Bobby's here.Big brother Bobby. He's got all his little siblings in the house now.He got company. He got company, temporary company in the house.You don't want to know, Spencer. This is crazy.I have right now, right now I have four little dogs in the house.My daughter's here and she has three chihuahuas.
30:38And it's, it's crazy.And Bobby wants to establish his, you know, his territory.So he's the boss.And yeah, that's why I'm taking him on my lap because otherwise we're going to be interrupted by by little dog fights.The chihuahua is the little.It's like a madlibs for how much you can disrupt a man's life.It's like three chihuahuas moving in.Dude, no.
31:06Yeah.This is that.Listen, I've already spoken to my daughter.This, this is temporary.This cannot.No, this has to change.We have got to get Johan on vacation away from this house.But I was surprised to see these guys jumping so quickly back into camp, but I guess you're there.
31:28And then probably the main thing you do is measurements for clothing.Exactly.I know a few other teams who just stayed in Italy and, you know, the biomechanics go there to measure the positions for new bikes.You know, there's, there's themes who change bike brands.And so, you know, it's a good, it's a good time to, to get a lot of little organizationaltasks done.And then let everybody go on a proper break, you know.Yeah.
31:58And then did you see that Mobe Star lost their clothing sponsor, Go Bic?And then now has to find a new one.Like, what a terrible time of year for that to happen.Oh, that's not a problem.It's not a problem.not a problem i mean but it's not a problem i guess they thesego big i know i know go big go big uh they also sponsor eneos righteneos and then demi volerine's team i feel like uh could be could be could be i'm not sure
32:24about that but uh but i know that gobyk has been making uh budget cuts uh because they werethey were trying to uh uh bit for the to the france jersey the yellow jersey theylost it to Castelli.So that's obviously, you know, a big, a big, a big one.And, you know, while they were doing that, they have made some, some budget cuts.Interesting.The only reason I know about them is from Demi Volnery.So maybe that's, maybe they took a look at what was driving.
32:59It seems like a good company.It kind of is interesting to me.They didn't get the yellow jersey, but there's probably a lot that goes into that.And then your guy, Yarno Weidar, keep an eye on him.him finishes the season super strong.Wins the final stage and the overall at Tour of Guangji.The final stage,kind of a joke race, right?
33:17But the final stage is very hard.Very interesting.It was Widar over Tom Piccock, Louis Barre, Marco Brenner,Wano Yuso.It's like seriously good riders.Kevin Vaughan was down there.Very hard summit finish.I mean, Wiedar.
33:29And then that's in addition to he wins at Trey, Valle, Varency.Trey Varene.Tareale, Varezine.Yeah.Over Tom Pidcock.like Moteo Jorgensen.So this guy is shockingly fast.You would not think because he's 54 kilos, but he's got a sprint on him.
33:47He's punchy.He's very punchy.Yeah.Had a good ride at the Vuelta.I mean, really, really good final half of the season for him.Yeah.Yeah, it's obviously one of those big talents, right?He actually did choose to stay a year in under 23.
34:04There we go.Or one or two years.Because he was on, he was on 2024, he was on the development team in 2025.He might have raced big boy races, though, while he was on that team.He did, but he stayed, I know he stayed, he stayed on purpose on the development teambecause he wanted to try to be world champion, which he didn't.But then he won the European champions last year.Yeah.
34:33Well, hey, this is, you know, it's one of, it's one of the guys that we've been hearing his namesince cadets, since juniors.Also, I mean, I think he improved a lot.So, so, you know, it kind of serves my, my, what I was saying before, you know,I know that Vidal was super strong in the cadets and the juniors,what everything rode away whenever he wanted.By the way, was the big rival to Paul Sexas into the Lavigneur last year.I think he got second.
35:06Yeah, it means.into the oven year.So as well.And he won a few, he won a few, I think he won one or two uphill finishes.He won one of the hardest stages of the race.Yeah.Yeah.Yeah.
35:16But this is a guy who has improved through the under 23 categories because I had heardthat he also had was struggling with positioning and bike skills.Because he was always riding on his on his own.You know, he was always riding.I mean, he was riding in the back.And then whenever it was uphill, he attacked and he won.Yeah.Obviously in the pros, you can't do that.
35:36anymore. But yeah, I mean, great second place there in a mountain stage in the Vuelta already.That was like the first time we saw him with the big boys in the front. And, yeah, beatingPitcock and Jorgensen in Italy. That was, I mean, superclass, the way he did that, the way heattacked him from the back and just before the sprint started. And now beating Pitcock man to man,Because, you know, let's face it, Pitcock went to Turv Guangxi to win it.That was his goal.Otherwise, he wouldn't have gone, right?Yeah.
36:17And of course, because his team wanted to be in first position in the pro team classification.But, yeah, he beat in fair and square.Pitcock had no answer on that last acceleration.So, yeah, big, I mean, I kind of feel I'm changing.position because I remember I have criticized him very, very hardly a few years ago in Zurichwhen he was writing the world championships and I was very critical of his way of racing.Yeah, I remember this.But he's improved.
36:50You know, that's the whole point of you 23.Exactly.He has improved.He has changed a lot in the way of racing.Yeah.Yeah.I mean, this actually perfectly compliments the point you're making at the top of the show.He is, I mean, that's a guy.
37:04Like, it's also interesting that he's on that team.You know, it's not an obvious team that you would go to as one of the most talentedriders in the sport, but it's kind of working for him.Now he's going to be, I mean, he's the leader.He's the leader in all those races.I mean, the Lee has left.Last year, Van Gilles has left.You know, so their bigger names have left.
37:30And so it's all about Yarno Weider now.So I think he's probably better there than all a big team.team where, you know, he's not always going to have his chance.Now, at least he knows every single race that suits him, he's going to have his chanceand be the protected rider, which is probably, you know, a better situation than be on a bigger team.Yeah, interesting.Let's take a quick break, another quick break.And then we'll come out some points drama and then wrap the show up.
37:55That works for you.Are, Johan, we are back.Before we go, I want to talk about some UCI points implications, drama.after the tallies have come in.So the number one team in the world in terms of UCI points,do you want to guess who it is?It's UAE.UAE closer than you would think is Red Bull.
38:17Red Bull, you know, Red Bull, 5,000 points behind, no?Yeah, which is actually pretty close.Which I think is the, by the way,is that the classification of this year or is it the three year classification?That's this year.Okay.Yes.yeah, there is a three year.
38:35Well, I guess we're at the beginning of the three year cycle.So it's also the three year.Yeah, yeah.That's the three year and in the one year.Yeah, yeah.And then Vizma's third, Vizma very well-run team.That's not shocking.DeCathlons, fourth, that's up three spots from last year.
38:50Little Trek fifth down two spots.That's not what they were looking for after spending that amount of money.XS Astana down two points.Bahrain up to two spots.Bahrain up three spots.Net Company, Ennio's flat, eighth last year, eight this year.Uno X, geez, that's a successful team.Up two spots to ninth and then Sudaw, quick step.
39:11Tenth down five spots.They were always contending for first back in the day.That's still like, I still think pretty good,considering the last run Coev and a poll.But if we go further down, it gets pretty interesting.So the first, let me make sure I have this right.I wrote this down.So assuming there's 18 World Tour teams next year,
39:30the top three second division teams get auto invites to all the races.This is like the best spot to be in.You get invitations.You do not have to go like co-fitists did not go to the zero, even though they could have this year.So those teams right now, Pinerrello, Q36.5, congratulations to Ivan Glastonberg,because your team won the second division in the pro team second division standings.They are 12th overall, first among second division teams.Tudor Pro Cycling 2nd,
40:01Cofidus third,total energies fourth,Unabat Rose Rock gets fifth by like 100 points.Really close between those teams.Where this gets interesting.So those four teams,Pinerrello, Tudor,Cofidus,
40:14total energies will get automatic invites next year.Well, no, no.The three of them.Oh, sorry, sorry, yes.If Picnic Post-N-L keeps their license,which we don't know.It's most likely won't happen.I'm shoveling dirt on them before they're dead.
40:33But yeah.So, yes, you're right.So it will just be three if Pitnick Post-N-L is around.If Pitnick Post-N-L is gone, there's not another World Tour team.It just goes to the fourth second division team.But Picnick, so also the deadline is passed to get your bank guarantee in and to get yourpaperwork and to be a World Tour team next year.Two teams missed the deadline.
40:55And doesn't mean they're not going to be teams next year.This happens all the time.that teams missed the deadline.Pitnick Post-S-N-L and J-Co-A-L-Lu-J-Co says,sorry, sorry, bro, just the money didn't get through correctly.We'll get that money wired over.They tend to miss this deadline a lot.I don't really know what that's about,
41:14but they'll probably be fine.Pignick-N-L, their issue is,we didn't mention this last year with all their problems,but their bike brand is out of business.So they have to go fine.And bike sponsors are big pieces of the puzzle.with modern world tour teams.That's like millions of euros plus the bikes.
41:33So they now have to go find a new bike sponsor and then submit their paperwork.And the way the UCI phrase it is like, we need that deal to be done before you can be,before you can get another year of a world tour license.Yeah.I think Spencer, short to interrupt.I think it's, okay, it's obviously an explanation they're giving now.I think the problem is deeper than this.let's not forget that when lapier their bike sponsor was not out of business they already only got their license for one year based on the financial criteria yeah so they have so this was last year so uh it's obviously i mean i don't know what lapier was paying or is paying right now but uh you know we said uh in one of the shows we saw reports that they had lost close to 20 million euros over the last three years yes you know
42:25No, a bike sponsor won't fill that gap.No, no. Also, yeah, so the company, the bike brand went out of business, a rider that was on thatteam last year and on a different team this year told me he went from the worst bike in theworld tour to the best bike in the world tour.I know who you're talking about.It's not, they were not on the great bikes to begin with.So, yeah.I mean, what are this?
42:49What's the move here?Like, what brand could they even go get at this point?I mean, first of all, I mean, which brand will,want to, I mean, there's two things to this, right?There's the equipment, which, you know, you can find a brand.But for the moment, everything's so uncertain with Picnic that which brand will want to makethat commitment.You know, first, they need to have the guarantees that they're going to be racing.
43:13They don't know yet if they're going to be racing right now or at least not in theworld tour.I mean, if they're racing, it could be in the pro team.Okay, it's still, it could still be interesting.it's not going to be a lesser brand.And then you have to look, okay, which brands are there?Which brands are for the moment not sponsoring any teams?I'm thinking about a brand like, for example, I mean, just off the top of my head,
43:40a brand like Bianchi, for example, could get back in, you know, because they left Bahrain.Did they leave?No, actually they're back.They're back with Bahrain.They're back.No, no, no, no, no, no. There's Bahrain.Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm out of my mind.Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You are. No, no, you're right. You're right. Okay.
44:00So, so, yeah, I mean, a smaller brand, right?And then Marita's going back to Siddall, right? So they're off the table.Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Marita is, is owner of specialized. So majority owner, I think, of specialized.Yeah, and they have a deal that they can't sell Maritas in the U.S.So it's all, I didn't know that.Yeah, specialized as like Marita in the U.S.Okay.But anyway, so how we found the brand?
44:30No, I mean, first of all, there's the equipment.That's one thing.But then, you know, find a brand who want to, you know,add a considerable amount of money.I mean, I'm going to guess right now, you know,a contract for a world tour team.I mean, a good world tour team.And we can't consider a picnic, a good wheelchair team.
44:48They're always in the, you know,they're a 13 position now, right?it's going to be somewhere around three million euros in cash plus all the equipment for asmaller team I don't see them finding any of those right now that would kind of help their problembut let me tell you three million is not going to be enough to solve their problems like let'seven say like ventum is like wow what an opportunity wouldVentim, is that good for Ventim?That's like, that's an issue.
45:25I don't, I don't, I don't think it would, I mean, sponsoring that that team wouldn't doanything for their business that would move the needle, I think.No.And if anything, it's like negative association.Like, that's at the level.Right now, especially, especially now with, with these reports and, you know, whether they'reabsolutely 100% true or not, the reports are out.The damage is done.
45:47And, you know, to rectify that, uh, it's, uh,it's it almost never happens.So, yeah, it's not, it's not looking good for them to find additional sponsors.Obviously, yeah, any, any bike brand that, that takes themselves seriously, want to be in professional cycling if they can afford it.So, you know, if they're not in the world tour, they're going to be pro team.Most likely they have women's teams also, which is doing pretty well that team.So then they have a pretty good development team also.But it also means that it's a lot of bikes for a smaller brand.
46:28It's a lot of bikes.So it's, it's, you know, it's like 300 bikes.It's the chicken in the egg, right?It's the chicken and the egg.Who's sponsoring Innocent next year?What bike brand?Cube.Cube.
46:40And then Factor is only with modern adventure, right?Factor is with modern adventure and wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.I have seen something somewhere.The problem is modern adventures almost as good as Picnic at this point.They are.I mean, they're not so visible.They're low visible.And we know for certain that they're going to improve.
47:04Yes.You know, and within now in three, four years, they're going to be, they're going to be a lot better, which, you know, I think the way picnic is going to go.This is only going to get worse.What about Scott?Who's Scott sponsoring next year?Scott is not Scott is out that would be the one right yeah circle yeah you have a big board in the office with Scott written on it yeah i meani don't know if that's good for Scott though that's the problem yeah thing though that we should say isif you're a major bike brand you have to sponsor a pro team people disregard it but your bike will
47:40get worse if you do not have a team your bike will like fall behind um because it just helps you likethey're pushing the bikes to a level that you can't replicate.So you learn everything that's wrong about your bike so fast and then you can iterate and make it better and better and better.Yeah, yeah.So that would be the reason you come in.But so let's just assume Picnic is there.Let's assume.So we know, sadly, that Kern Farm has gone next year.
48:12I think, though, that does not help Bardiani.Bardiani is the big one that misses out here.They finished 31st in the standings.That means they're ineligible to go to a grand tour next year.So they can't go to the zero.Yeah.So if we just, let's just game out, picnics around, picnics world tour, then Pinerrello,Tudor, cofittists are all at the Tour de France, all the grand tours.
48:35Total, at least, total energies and Unibet is the big, obvious wildcards for the Tour de France.Is total energy is going to be around?Well, that's, it's a bit of the same situation.there's so much uncertainty.I've read reports and I've also gotten some inside information that the team is happeningon a very reduced budget.Definitely, I mean, definitely not World Tour.There are not World Tour now either.
49:02But on a lot lesser budget than, and so total energies for clarity is not sponsoring the team anymore.It's the team that's the team that Jarron-Neber-Modou has been running for, I don't know,the 20, 30 years probably.So I've heard that there's, I mean, so they filed their application.They did pay the bank guarantee, which covers three months of salary of at least 20 ridersand staff.So that's done.And then, but I've seen reports that they don't or they're not able to announce the title
49:39sponsor yet.Yeah.So this team has been existing for a very long time.And it's been supported by the area, the region of the Vandé, which is an area, a region in France.And there's a lot of support there from the local government, from local businesses.It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's mean, you can compare like so kind ofcorporation, you know, like, like, like lots of lots of little donations of lots of different,uh, people or entities. Um, but that's not enough. So they're, they're either, they're not able to
50:14announce it or they haven't found the sponsor yet.I mean, I've heard that the team is happening.If the team is,get their license of pro team,then I'm going to guess they're in the Tour of France.Because it would be,it would be them and Tietema, I guess,or the next two teams, right?
50:38Tietamah has got to go becausethey've outscored Kaha'u-Rall by almost twice as many points.okay so you couldn't in good faith pick kahu roll over the rockets you'd think yeah but let's say totalenergy is not around let's say pitnick's not around total energy is not around then it starts to getinteresting you'd be at one two three unabat would be the auto invite and then the you'd havethree you'd have two wild cards it'd be like kaho roll and uskadel I don't know I don't know whothey would pick.But we should mention Uska to Ouskadi, they are probably going to the
51:16world to next year because they, against all odds, got inside the top 30 by doing likethe most innovative point strategy I've probably ever seen in pro cycling.Yeah.And they raced until the very last moment.They scored lots of points.I mean, you know, relatively lots of points in smaller races.They even went to Canada, I know, to Panama to do some races, which they won.So they got, uh, there are they.
51:4228 now or 29th?The 28th.Pretty good.28.So they qualify and then on top of that, they signed Michelanda.So they have to do the VELTA.Yeah.So Valta is like locked.
51:53Like they're in for the Valta.It is kind of interesting.Actually, did they do the VALTA this year?They did, right?Did they not?Unless.Okay.Well, if they did it this year.
52:05Hold on one second.If they did it this year, then there might be a problem.well does that's what what happens with that because they had this rotating yeah but then that's whenthey had four teams so obviously that's already different because there's only three teams leftthere's kacharural uh uscalel and burgos hold on as a second so those are the three teamsoh i'm idiots so the teams that did the wealth of this year that are not world tour werePenorello, Coffitis, Tutor, Procycline, Burgos, BH, and Equipocran pharma.So, Oskitell was out there.
52:46Okay, Oskaltel and Husscalter is in.Yes, they're in for the Volta.And Kajaral didn't do it, but they did the tour.So normally next year it's going to be, if this rule is still in place or this agreementis still in place, is going to be Kajoral and Oskaltel.Yes.Interesting.And then, man, so yeah, Pitnick and Total energies are not around.
53:10It actually gets kind of fascinating for the tour.I don't know who the tour would invite.It would invite politics.Politics will come in place.Politics and maybe a little bit of cash, I would imagine.A little bit of money.He never heard in this situation.You got Leading Starr, the Chinese team coming in.
53:34I have to imagine.They're not top 30.No, they're not top 30.It'd have to be like Karul all probably, right?Yeah.Yeah, I would love to see Oskinell back.The problem is Uskidel probably couldn't do the tour and the Valta.No.
53:49I doubt they have the resources.So, man, I don't know what they would do.Fascinating stuff.We'll see.Let's see what happens to total energies and.Total energies will probably be back.Because they just have to get a minimum level.of funding.
54:07Yeah.You know, as long as if the minimum you can have to be a second division team,they'll go to the tutor fronts.Yeah.Then the question is, do they have a theme worthy of writing the tour de France?That's a great question.They're French, they're French, but, you know, do they have the necessary resource, like,quality writers that they're not, you know, being ridiculous?
54:29Yeah, probably not.You know, that's another thing to take into consideration, you know?Yes.Yeah.Well, also, we'll start to cool off on the news and the racing.So we'll start to answer listener questions as we get further into the off season.So send those to info at we do.And we will get them answered in upcoming episodes.
54:51Anything else, Johan, before we go?Nope.That's it for me.All right.We'll talk to you next week.And we have like our, we start to get into the end game.Here we got like our season highlights.And then the one I'm really excited.
55:05about after Christmas beforeNew Year's we're going to bust out, unsealour predictions we had for this yearand then we're going to rate our predictions.That's going to be fascinating.Okay.All right.Thanks.
55:16We'll talk to you later.
There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click any sentence in the transcript to leave one.