#602 - Gaza Doctor (Aziz Rahman, MD)
00:00Today's guest is a doctor from Wisconsin, who recently returned from a two-week medical missiontrip in Gaza, where he provided aid at one of the last functioning hospitals there.We're going to talk about all of it, the tragedy, the ups, the downs, the diabolicalness,the hope. I am very grateful for his time. This episode can get a bit intense or a bit graphicat time. So if that's not for you, then this may not be for you. Today's,guest is Dr. Aziz, Raman.Dr. Raman, thanks for joining me today, man.Thanks for having me, especially on short notice.
00:55Yeah, I appreciate it, man.You will just get right into you did a service in, uh,You're a doctor?Yes.Okay.And you just got a, you just did a service in Gaza.And how did they say it there?Are they say Gaza?
01:08Well, you can say Gaza.Okay.I was saying Gaza when I was there.Yeah?It worked out.Cool.I came back.What hospital were you stationed at over there?
01:15So, Nasser Hospital.Okay.You know, you probably heard on the news that's a last functioning hospital in Gaza, and ittruly is.There's other smaller hospitals, but they're really not functioning at a scale of a hospital.And how do you get chosen to go there?You live in Milwaukee and you doctor out of Milwaukee currently.That's right.
01:34So you go through your own hospital or do it?No, this has nothing to do with my hospital.In fact, I don't even tell my hospital I was going.You didn't?I just told one of my colleagues.He helped me with my schedule.And I reached out to one of these organizations.And then they reached out back to me when there was a spot available.
01:49And they told me, hey, we got this spot available in two months.Are you willing to go?And when I got that invitation from them, I was on a plane back to my family.family. And I was like, man, how am I going to tell my wife, my kids, my mom, my dad. So that's allI was thinking, you know. And, yeah, landed. The kids were put to sleep, went to my wife. And I waslike, hey, let's go have some cup of coffee. And I was like, hey, I had this opportunity. And she's like, it'sGaza. And I was like, God, how did you know? She knew, huh? She knew because, you know, this has been goingon for so long, you know. And I've been talking about it at work. I've been talking about with my
02:27friend, what I would call, and many would call a genocide, even though it hasn't legally beento find.I mean, it hurts, man.I found myself coming home from work, you know, after a good day's work, but justunhappy, you know, I'm just like, man, like, there's kids dying out there, you know.I'm taking care of these adults, you know, with alcoholic cirrhosis, you know, they madethese decisions to their liver, for example.Yeah.
02:49You know, but these kids, they are innocent, right?And so, and then I come home and see my children running up to me asking me to payvideo games with them, watch TV, have some snacks.I'm saying, this dichotomy is so hardto reconcile. And sowhen I got this invitation, it was almostlike this opportunity to like decompressif that makes any sense, in the war zone.
03:09And it's weird, right? It's like a paradox.Like, why the hell would you decompress in a war zone?But I almost needed to do something with my hands.And, you know, I'm a proceduralistas a background in medicine, so I like to do thingswith my hand, right? What does proceduralist mean?Yeah, so I'm an interventional radiologist.actually was the first interventional radiologist to go to Gaza in the world.
03:29And it's one of the newest specialties in medicine where we use image guidance to do basically like minimally invasive procedures.Okay.So like, for example, historically, if you have a big, you know, infection in your stomach, they would incise your, you know, your abdomen open and take, you know, drain the infection.So now we could just take a cat scan and put a drain right through your skin into it.So instead of a one hour procedure, it's five minutes.Okay.You know, and you don't have to stay in the hospital.You don't have to get sutures.
03:55And there's, you know, you can basically take clots out of the arteries of the legs for diabetics and, and it's a whole different specialty.It's actually the newest specialty in medicine.I think it was officially credentialed, I think, in 2013 when I was graduating medical school.Okay.Yeah.So you have to tell your wife, she signs off, how long after that are you on a plane to go to Gaza?Two months later, I'm on a plane to, I'm on Jordan.So you're still not, even though I got permission from my family, I have never.
04:25not gotten permission from the authorities that be. And you might ask who that is. So that'sIsrael. Israel makes all final decisions about who comes in and who comes out. As you know,international journalists are not allowed in. In fact, doctors are pretty much healthcare workersare essentially the only people allowed in. And even that is extremely scrutinized. So we had22 applicants for this two-week medical mission that we were on, and only six of us got in.So you had 22 applicants, what do you mean, that just had applied for it? Yeah, 22 physiciansacross the world for this two weekswere intending to come
04:58and the organizationI went with was Rehma Worldwide.They're based in Michigan and they basicallyover-accept people knowingthat there's about a 75% rejectionrate. Soafter all that rejection, like some peopleflew in from the UK, some people
05:14flew him from Egypt andthey just flew right back after they cut the denialletter. In Jordan, you mean? In Jordan.So you have to be there because you find out if you're in orout 12 hours before we goin. So 7am, for example, on a Thursday morning where the bus is waiting for us in front ofthe hotel. Well, you have to be there by 10 p.m. And that's when we get the Excel document thatshows us for in or out, you know? And so some of you staff don't know until right there in Jordan
05:38if you're if you're getting approved. You're not like if you made the team. Yeah, that's everyphysician. Got it. Yeah. So you have to go all the way there, all that, and then you still might notmake it. Yeah. Even after you get accepted, you still might not make it. Because now you have togo through Jordanian checkpoint. Then you have to go through the Israeli checkpoint. AndAnd then after you get through the Israeli checkpoint, then there's a god's a checkpoint.And so what would be a three-hour journey if there was no checkpoints?It takes about 14 to 16 hours.Okay.
06:05Wow.And does Palestine have a say in who it lets in?Like, is there a Palestinian authority also that you go through?There's no border crossing that you have to go through through Palestinian governance that determines if you can go in and out.It's all Israeli and Jordanian.Okay, got it.Yeah, Jordanian just gets you through into the Israeli side.And then Israeli authorities basically, you know, check your bags and, you know, do all your background checks, check your passport.
06:31And then they give you a little document saying you can go.So take me through like your first day arriving at the hospital?So we left at 7 a.m. Amman and we got to a safe house, like 11 p.m. or something along those lines.And they fed us some pita bread and hummus.And they apologized for not having any real food, like meat and whatnot.So we didn't actually get to the hospitaland through the following morning. So Friday morning.Okay. So about 24 hours after we left
06:57on Jordan. And or is there likehopes high? Is there like excitement? Like what are some ofthe energy going on at that point? Are you guys just exhausted?Yeah. So the six of us,this was our first time going to Gaza. Some people have beenmultiple times. Oh, we were excited, man. We were like, we're going tosave Gaza. We are going to do it.And it was a fun group. We were all there for the same mission,
07:19for the same intentions. I had afive-month-old baby that I left behind.One of the guys had a six-month-old baby,and the other guy one-uped usand had like a two-week-old baby.You're like, dude, what's wrong with you, man?Dude, you got to see out.It's a little soon to be leaving.
07:32It is, right?But somehow our wives all let us go, right?So you kind of bonded over that, too.Got it.But the energy was high.The energy was high.And how many doctors are at the hospitalthat you're working at?
07:42Oh, man.That's tough to answer.Hundreds.Okay.The reason for that is because there's anothermajor hospital in Kahn,it's called European General Hospital.And that just got blown to smithereens kind of in before June, before we went.
07:56And, you know, they were saying there's a Hamas operative in the tunnels.So they basically dropped a bunker buster in front of the European General Hospital and basically shut that down.So all those doctors, all those nurses are essentially got shunted to Nassar Hospital.So now there's an overabundance of some doctors at Nassar Hospital.But, you know, as we can get into, there is a systemic targeting of specialized physicians in Gaza.So, for example, there's only two neurosurgeons, you know.And so there are some specialties that are lacking.And what do you mean is systemic targeting?
08:31So if you look at UN data, about 500 physicians and nurses have been killed.A thousand have been injured.I think 300 are still in custody.There's one of the hospital directors, he's a pediatrician Abu Safia, Hussein Abu Safia.He's been in jail since December.no charges against him.In America?No, no, in Gaza.
08:54In Gaza.Yeah, yeah.He's an amazing individual.And I think one of the most iconic pictures of him being arrested is he's a last person to leave his hospital because he just wouldn't leave the incubated babies behind.And once they left, then Israel basically said, come walk to the tanks.So he's in his white coat in this debris-filled Gaza picture.And there's two tanks there and he gets arrested.And he's never seen since then.
09:19It's pretty wild, man.The United Nations Human Rights Office issued a statement on July 16th, 2025, providing data and details regarding the killing of medical professionals in Gaza.Look at since 2003.Gaza's Ministry of Health Reports had at least 15.Oh, wow.1,581 health workers have been killed in Gaza since October 7th, 2023.Oh, my God.I mean, you know, healthcare workers in America are probably like the most sacred specialty in society, right?
09:46Like, I'm not trying to pull myself on a pedestal, but I respect my physician.Like, my primary care doctor is taking care of me.I'm going to respect that guy, you know.So this was a risky choice for you to make to go.It was.And, you know, I actually wrote some letters to my kids before I left.I was like, I don't know if I'm coming back.I had the hope I would come back.
10:09Yeah.You know, anything could have happened.Yeah.I mean, look at those numbers.Yeah.I mean, realistically, they're targeting Gaza doctors, Palestinian doctors.I don't think they would want to target an international, especially American physician.That's just such a PR nightmare.
10:23But has it happened before? Absolutely.You know, looking at the West Bank.They just killed an American kid from Florida on vacation there.Another was the Al Jazeera reporter.They, you know, they sniped and she died on the spot.Well, Israel's whole country is a PR nightmare right now, it seems like.So I wouldn't put anything past them right now, I don't think.But I just feel like it's very brave you to go.
10:44Are you guys sleeping at the hospital?or what's like...Yeah, so there's aninternational doctor's loungebasically on the top floorand all the doctorsfrom the different NGOskind of sleep in this one area
10:54whether you're fromAmerica or UKor Australia, whatever.So, you know,the men have their own call roomand then the femaleshave their own call roombut then there's this joint space
11:05where local gauzesmake us food,kind of just hang out,the news is going.There's a little balconywe can look out the window.So it's a nice placeto kind of just breathe
11:12without any patientsor locals there.So we kind of had our own space,which was nice.but we were eating the local food.And what was your shift like?What's your shift there like?Yeah, so it depends on your specialty.
11:23I was, again, I was the only interventional radiologist in the area.I mean, there was two interventional radiology doctors in all of Gaza.Just for comparison, there's probably like 600 in Chicago, you know?So when I got there, basically those other two told everyone at Nassar, hey, there's this guy, he's an interventional radiologist, give him all your cases.Because they come down like once a week.So if there's a patient who needs a procedure,they need to wait seven days for essentially.As for example, the ER doctors,
11:52especially the ones we came with,they typically do eight or 12-hour shifts in America.So when they got there, the energy was high.They're like, oh, we're going to do, you know, 12-hour shift.And then the locals just laughed.They're like, no, you're not.You're going to do a four-hour shiftbecause you're not going to make it more than that.
12:05And it turns out they were right.Really?It's just so intense.It's the most intense, traumatic experience.I don't think any physician can understand.understand. I would say take the most experienced trauma surgeon in Baltimore, which is like one ofthe biggest trauma centers in America, and put them in Gaza, and it's like child's playcompared to what's going on in Gaza. You're talking about like an influx of like 400 patients in
12:28like four hours with 30 casualties on arrival, 30 headshots on arrival, 30 criticalmass shots on arrival. And then like everything in between women, children, elderly men,young boys. And it's just like, what, how the heck do you triage all this? And that, um, thatwas every day, man. So it took a mental toll. What's that first moment that you noticed, like,oh, my God, this is a lot. Yeah. So the first day we got there was actually pretty chill the Friday.But then the Saturday, they had the MCI. It's called a mass casualty incident. And they basicallypull a fire alarm. I was like, what the hell is that? Oh, every doctor come down to the ER to try to help.And so I was like, okay. So went downstairs, got in there. It's just like brain matter coming out of people.
13:12There's guts coming out of people's abdomens.There's people's legs blown off and someone's carrying it in next to the, you know, one of the family members bringing it in for the doctors and, you know, they think you can just reattach it.And it's just like absolute chaos.There's family members, security in the hospital is trying to push out the family members so the doctors and nurses can take care of the patients.It's absolute chaos.And then us American physicians are just like looking at it.They're like, what is going on here?And, you know, that was, that was, that's when reality hit.
13:41And I was like, okay, this must be like a one-off.And it just kept happening every day.And sometimes multiple times a day.Essentially, basically we can, we found the pattern related to when the GHF sites were opening up.GHF.Sorry, Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is this American and Israeli initiative to bring in aid to Gaza,which basically takes over, has taken over all of the UN aid agencies, which the UN has been doing this for 75, whatever.It's World War II, right?
14:13And I think in March, officially, Gaza humanitarian foundation is the only one allowed to bring aid into to Gaza.You know, we've been hearing a lot about this recently in the news that there's like these long lines for aid for food, right?You've been hearing a lot about like mass starvation and famine being created, being used as a genocide tool.What do you see or notice with that, right?Like you're hearing that people are like the food is set up and it's a trap.You're hearing that Hamas controls the food.You're hearing all of these things.But we know, like you said earlier, international journalists aren't allowed to cover this, right?
14:50Unfortunately, yeah, that's right.And so what did you see?What did you notice?We were hearing testimony from everyone coming in that the GHF sites is a death trap.And, you know, I'll just get into some psychology of some of the people there.So, you know, in Islam, suicide is forbidden, right?But the situation there where almost everyone is depressed is that some people who have lost everything, their families, their kids almost want to die.So they will, they'll go to GHF, kind of hoping they'll die.
15:25Going to these food lines and these.They're just hoping they get shot.Because the statistics are there.Like, you know, you're seeing 100 dead every day and like 300 injured every day.Like it's almost consistent for the last month or two, you know.And that's what we were seeing when we were there.We were seeing 100 a day and 300 injured a day for pretty much the two weeks that we were there.Yeah, this says right here in Gaza, more Palestinians are killed while waiting for food aid.
15:51At least 325 people in Gaza were killed by Israeli forces while trying to reach food last week.According to Gaza's health ministry, that figure included 24 people killed on Saturday.14 on Sunday, the deadly search for food is happening despite Israeli assurances of humanitarian pause and attack.to let more aid in as deaths from Mount Nutrition,soaring Gaza and starvation grips the territory.What was the date on that?August 3rd.That's recent.
16:17I think they've been exposed quite a little bit moresince Anthony Aglar came up.But as of June, I mean, I don't know if you can go back,but we were seeing 100 in Gaza a day, basically.But that's also between bombings within Gaza,not necessarily.During the time you were there, how many were you guys seeing a day, honestly?Patience.
16:36Yeah.From humanitarian aid.sites. Oh, probably like 200. Okay. So Muslim people can't take their own life because of theirreligion. Yeah. So you were seeing some of them who had gone to humanitarian aid sites and werepurposely putting themselves in situations to take their own life, but without them having to do it.So I didn't actually see that. I am in contact with a lot of the medical students and nurses andphysicians right now. And one of them literally just told me this past week, you know,If my wife and kid die, I'm going to GHF site, and I hope I'm taken.
17:12That's essentially, you know, almost like I hope I die when I'm there.So it's real.You know, the psychology there is strange.We were at a table with our medical student, you know, a couple of us doing rounds,which means talking about cases, talking about patients.And one of our medical students is like, what happens to the body after death?So we were like, whoa, you know, we kind of just like talked a little bit spiritually.And then she's like, my uncle and 20 family members just got drone striked.
17:38like an hour ago.And not a single tear,not a single facial expression.And I was like,oh my God.Like, how do I respond to that?You know,if that happened in America,
17:46you would tell your medical school,take a week off,take a month off,do whatever you need to do.And then she took three hours offto go to the funeral the next dayand came back.And that's it.
17:54One of your coworkers?One of the medical students.Yeah,she's 22.In Gaza?In Gaza.And she was working there?Yeah, the medical students
18:01are full-fledged medical students.They come every day.They're some of the hardest working people there.It's crazy.They have board exams.There's residency.Where are they hot?What school are they at?
18:11Yeah, there's two medical schools in Gaza.I mean, they've been destroyed.And they all have to take a year off.But their homework still do, apparently.Yeah.I mean, that's fucking crazy.Yeah, you can't use the dog ate my homework excuse there.I know, I don't know.
18:27You could eat the drone ate my homework, though, maybe.But is that true, the Islamic University of Gaza and the Al-Azhar University of Gaza?Yeah, that's right.Those are the schools?Yeah.A lot of their students were there in support, working in support.Yeah, they're at mostly Nasser Hospital.Some of them are in the north, and I'll Shiffa Hospital, which is another hospital up in the north area of Gaza.
18:50Okay.You know, you hear a lot of stories about the aid, right?The aid, that's been a big kickball that goes around, like, in the media of, like, it's their fault.It's the U.N.'s fault.It's there. Hamas is stealing the food.Like, what is the real truth over there?Is Hamas stealing it?Is there 600 pallets just sitting there?
19:07air like what do you think is really going on so so the GHF is basically taking over a delivery toGaza and no one wants to work with them that countries don't want to work with them the UN doesnot want to work with them so even though the UN does have food ready to go in warehouses on truckswaiting in Egypt and Jordan it's not allowed in because Israel has only given authority toGHF okay now GHF is run by private military contractors so it's militaryaid, which is against, you know, international rules. You know, I'm not a expert. I'm not a lawyer to talk aboutinternational laws, but you can look up to Geneva Convention, the Rome statutes, and it's clear as day, right?Let's pull that up then, just so we know it. Yeah. So the UN doesn't want to work with them. They don't want to be
19:53implicated in their own rules, against their own rules, right? The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is run by acombination of American security contractors, ex-military officers, and humanitarian aid officials.The organization operates with the support of the U.S. and Israeli governments, but it is primarilymanaged and overseen by American individuals.The GHF lacks transparency, independence, and adherence to established humanitarian norms.The organization's leadership and operational structure have faced significant criticismfrom international aid groups and the United Nations who argue that the GHF lacks transparency,independence, and adherence to establish humanitarian norms.
20:28I mean, Jake Wood, he's a military veteran co-founder, right?He actually resigned right as they got established because he's like, screw this, I'm out.This is not going to be good.Wow.He saw the writing on the wall.Hmm.And he started it.And props to him.
20:42Yeah.You know?Wow.He'd be interesting to talk to you probably, huh?Yeah.Wow.I'd like to hear what he has to say.Yeah, me too.
20:49But you asked me.But you asked me.I feel like I didn't really answer you yet.I lost 15 pounds when I was there.Every one of a six physicians lost a lot of weight.You know, I have one of those smart scales at home.Before Gaza, after Gaza.It's like this graph that just goes straight down, which is awesome for me.
21:03Because I came back in two weeks and now I'm slimmer.But for them, it's indefinite.They've been doing this for months.They have, you know, hypovitaminosis.They don't have enough energy.They have, you know, anemia from no iron, no protein.You know, woman can't breastfeed.They deliver a baby and there's no milk.
21:20There's no formula coming in.That's banned.You know, I got confiscated by some of the doctorswho were trying to bring it in.And, I mean, every aspect of their health is being affected, right?So even though you're not seeing, like, skin and bones on every single person,if you took their labs, they are sick.You know, and there's stages to starvation.
21:38You don't just, you know, one day you're fat and then the next day you're skinny.It doesn't work like that.And some people don't get become skin and bones, right?Some people actually, their belly bloats up because of loss of protein and the fluidinstead of being on the blood vessels goes into the belly and they can die in different ways.And then we went to the neonatal ICU in a pediatric hospital and we saw, you know, the babiesthat are skin and bones, you know, and it's disgusting to see that knowing.what they need, which is formula.
22:08But what were you, did you hear that Hamas was taking the food?Or did you, like, what, like, what's the true, like, what is the, were you hearing there, right?Were you hearing anything different?Because here it's just, it's so hard to know, right?It's so hard to know what's going on.Yeah, so, you know, I went as a doctor, but I think that's a great question.I didn't, we did not see a combatant.We did not talk about combatants.
22:30No, none of the patients talk about that.Honestly, everyone's just concerned about how they're going to eat, you know?like no one no one's talking about Hamas and um that said I am very curious so I didn't ask manypeople you know privately not patients but like co-workers and stuff like what's going on out therelike you know are they actually and everyone's like no there's no way it's to go to the GHF siteyou have to go in an active war zone there's tanks there's um you know a private militarycontract from the US which all special forces there's IDF the Israeli military I mean you knowit doesn't even make sense that they would go out there and even if they
23:04did. The question is like, why is there, why can't we flood Gaza with aid? Because then Hamaswould have zero, you know, leverage over the food. So if you're saying, you know, Hamas is takingthe food, stealing it and selling it. And that's why the food's so difficult to obtain. Well,then flood the markets with food. And then Hamas has no leverage. Right. Over the food, right? It's justlike common sense, supply and demand. So their argument doesn't even add up. But that said,I have asked many locals in the hospital, you know, obviously,they don't really know, but I don't, I, I didn't see any evidence of that. The only evidencethat we saw, and actually, by the way, Anthony Aguilar said that, they, they weren't even screening
23:43the patients, I mean, sorry, the, the aid seekers for being Hamas or not. So, I mean, there'sno screening process. How would they know? There's not going to be some guy with an AK-47,you know, going into an active war zone. Yeah, he's like, knock, knock, and they're like,who's there? And he's like, yeah, you know, yeah. I mean, that's, yeah, I agree. If onlyWar worked like that right now.But that's one thing I haven't understood about a lot of this military effect from the IDF,because they're always, you know, they speak highly of their, there's a lot of high reflectionof their military and their abilities.
24:18But then you're like, well, why not just send in Marines or your Navy SEAL group toseek out Hamas instead of blanketly bombing thousands of people?Like, why would, you know what I'm saying?If your group is that great, why wouldn't you send them to pick off the bad guys oneat a time. That's the part that sometimes I don't understand.Yeah, you know, they motto themselves as the most moral army in the world, which I findkind of odd. Well, I think it now, I think anybody would find those days are over, I think.100%. But when we were there, we were staying on the balcony, looking on, you know, during
24:50a break time as physicians, and boom, you just see this giant explosion. Your eardrums are rumbling.And it's just like, who just died there? Was it a Hamas guy? It was like a family, right?So then you go down in the ER and there's like 30 patients that show.up. And you ask them like, you know, what happened? Oh, the shrapnel injuries from an explosion. You know, some lady has like a high speed velocity, you know, piece of shrapnel that went toward a belly or her leg. Has someone who have to have emergent surgery. Some people goes right through their skull. And so, um, and then you realize every single explosion and it was happening about every 30 minutes in Khan Yunus at that time, I would say, um, from my experience, you realize every 30 minutes there's an explosion and people are dying. Right. So even if,every single one of those explosions was Hamas.Why is there 30, 50 patients coming in, you know, routinely?So that's what's interesting.When I say mass casualty incident, we're talking about an influx of like 400 patients.
25:46But it doesn't stop between the hour, right?So even at nighttime, there's patients chronically, consistently coming in and all night.Right.So some of us had night shifts, basically.We would help out the night team.Our job was just to help out, right?Like I was in the ER.I was in the OR, the operating room to on the 4th.
26:04floors, I was sometimes being a nurse, just helping out getting IV access and a littlekids. So we were just everywhere trying to help out anywhere. What type of injuries were youguys seeing come in? Like, what was it like kind of? Yeah, there were a couple of pattern ofinjuries. So first one is bullets, you know, gunshot wounds. And they were very accurate,almost exclusively in the head and neck or critical mass shots, right? Every now and then wesee an abdominal wound. And then explosions were the other one. So burn injuries and thenprojectiles, you know, from shrapnel.That was another big one.
26:36And then every now and then you would see like, oh, you know, something local happened,like a tramping or, you know, some internal fight.But those were extremely rare.Like you're talking about, you know, when people, when groups of people are coming in,they're coming on donkey is their ambulance, basically.And they do have some ambulances, but most people come in via donkey or by family and they'rejust like throw them in the ER and like take care of them.And the guy's arm is exploded from, you know, explosion or a baby.
27:02basically has 85% burns and there's no way they're going to survive that to a guy with agunshot wound to his head. I mean, I'm not even exaggerating this. And I have pictures to provethat, you know, some of them are too gory for perhaps a non-physician. But what is, what's theprocess like when they come in? Like, is there security at the front of the hospital? BecauseI imagine that the hospital would just be almost being overrun by people looking for shelteraid constantly or even water. Like, yeah, what was that like? Yeah, it is overrun. There's nosecurity. I mean, it's like one guy at the door.saying like, you know, let the doctors go to the trauma bay and he's trying to hold like a
27:36whole sea of people back. But is there a parking lot? Is there like a fence where that's keepingpeople in and not? Like no, no, no. The hospital is run by people. Like there's kids looking forwater while you're like talking to a neurosurgeon about the next step for a patient's care. It'sweird. Like we're shoeing, not me, but like the locals are just shooing kids away because they'relooking for clean drinking water and it's in the hospital. And like in this room, for example,where we're podcasting, there would be like four,five kids looking for water going in and out.I mean, the people, patients'
28:06family sleeping outside the ICU.The hallways were full.I mean, like, there was no single areaon the wall that you could sit.I mean, people feel safe in the hospitalbecause, you know, it's not being bombed.Yeah.Oh, here's some photos right here.
28:23Wow, that's wild.How do you guys decide right when somebody gets therewhat level of care that they needand if you're going to be able to care for them?What's that like?When a patient enters the ER, there is a green zone, a yellow zone, and a red zone.So depending on the severity of the injury, so they get triaged.This is when there's a non-MCI, so non-mass casualty incident.
28:46When it's a mass casualty incident, the whole ER is a red zone.So the green zones, light injuries, yellow zones, intermediate injuries, and red zone is basically critical injuries.And then there was a black zone.Black zone is basically anyone who's going to die.you just kind of move themfrom the red zone to the black zoneyou tell the familylike there's no chance
29:05and we were doing that oftenand is that your responsibility tooyeah as a physician of courseyou know it's our job to make that decisionbut also tell the family like there'sthere's nothing we can doand those are hard conversationsyou know for example resource management
29:19is something we haven't gone intofor example in America we have ventilatorsright the breathing machineif in the ER there wasvery limited amount of breathing machinesto the point if there was like a 70year old and a 20 year old who got injured, we would have to determine who gets that breathingmachine. And there was an instance where we actually had to say, well, the 20 year old has
29:40a longer life expectancy. So, you know, the 7 year old is going to have to go to that blackunit and kind of die off. So you tell the family, they don't like that answer, but it is what itis. What else can you do? So it was, it was a, you know, sometimes we even got into arguments withthe locals because we didn't understand how bad the resource management issue was, right? We'recoming from America. We're like, dude, we can do it. We can save this patient. But no, there'snothing you can do. There's literally nothing you can do without the resources, the medicines thatare not coming in, you know? And that's the reality. Like, food is a huge problem, obviously notcoming in, but medication supplies, surgical equipment. It's just not coming in. And, you know,
30:18we would try to bring in our, you know, 50 pound carry-on bags and whatnot. But what is thatgoing to do, right? You're talking about 2.2 million people. You're talking about six doctorstrying to save the world. I mean, it doesn't make sense. Dude, when people come in, areAre they coming in on stretchers?Is there like a nurse desk or anything like that?Like, what's kind of like this setup?Does it feel like a regular hospital?It does, but the difference is there's an ambulance here and there.
30:40But majority of patients are coming in on donkey carts and private vehicle, which islike they stuff like four or five bodies in the back of the car.And then families are just holding their loved ones and just running inside through thedouble doors and plopping the patient down wherever they can find.them, you know, sometimes in the wrong area, then they have to pick them up and move them tothe critical area versus the green area I was talking about before. And it's chaos like that,right? But yeah, when the, when the traumas come in, it's just, it's people running all overthe place. It's not as much organization as you would imagine in American hospital. Is there
31:20enough blood, like for blood donors and blood drought, like that sort of thing? Yeah, so sometimes it runsout. Sometimes Israel allowsa mass donationfrom the West Bank, for example,to come in. We, physiciansare encouraged togive our blood upon leaving,so we don't get too, you know,
31:39fatigued when we first get there.It's at the end that they encourageus to give. If someone is dying,can they still take blood from them to save it and give it to someoneelse?Yeah, I don't know if that's a standard protocol there.I don't thinkthat's established protocol.
31:55Is that even possible?Like, or is that a...Yeah, it's possible.It's kind of an interesting concept.Like, hey, you're dying.Let me just take some of your blood.But I guess in an emergency,that could be done.
32:06I think it's more like respecting the dead.Just, you know, you're going to die.Let them die in peace.Yeah.Yeah, for sure.I didn't know if somebody had diedif you could, like,while their body,
32:15could you still take blood for them?Yeah, definitely.How long is blood still able to be taken out of a body?Let me see.Taking blood from a dying personspecifically for donation is highly restrictedand governed by strict ethicallegal and medical standards worldwide.
32:28The dead donor rule, a fundamental principle called the dead donor rule requires that a personmust be declared legally and medically dead by recognized criteria, such as brain death orcardiac death, before any organ or tissue can be removed for donation.Blood banks and medical organizations do not take blood from dying patients for donations,and this would violate ethical and legal norms.Okay.I mean, that also applies to any country that is not going through a genocide.Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
32:54So that's what I'm saying, like, the rules might be a little bit different there.Like, I'll shift a hospital in the north, like I said.Yeah, they are sometimes using flashlights to do procedures, and they are having power outages all the time.And, yeah, they are having to do amputations without sedatives.That is an issue.And that's because Noster Hospital is like the last tertiary care, as we call it, the main hospital.And it's just getting all the resources because there's just not enough, you know?You need to have this hospital.
33:23Yeah, that's all shift.a hospital. Remember when thisfirst startedthis was attackedand there was a huge argument. Oh, was itthe IDF, the Israeli military? It was it Hamas?And oh my God, it was such a bigdeal. Do you remember that? And then since then
33:38pretty much every hospital in Gaza has beenbombed. Yeah. Do you think that that'sHamas doing that? No.No, absolutely not.What did you guys dowith the deceased?What's...So when we declared someone
33:54dead. It would be the family's responsibility to do all the transportation and all the,you know, administrative stuff. So we would just pronounce them dead. And then it would bethe family's responsibility to take that body to the morgue, which is like maybe a hundred metersaway, a football field away. And then the Ministry of Health would process the body, you documentwhat happens. And then they would pray on it and then bury it the same day. So if you, maybe anhour or two, all that happens. But it was an assembly line. Like, you know, patient coming in ER,dead morgue prayer funeral and just constant like throughout the day you're just looking at the windowand it's all you see did you were you guys able to go to the morgue at all i did yeah um one day
34:32i have some pictures of that um there was like just it was a mass casualty it was like 15 bodies justlined up some of them were kids pretty much all um head shots this was from the the GHF siteactually and i was so disgusted i actually took like a like a video when i was there yeah that rightone right there it was disgusting i mean i i i i ihave never experienced anything like that. And I purposely went there during that time because I waslike, I want to feel what the locals are feeling. Like I'm in the ER or I'm in the hospital.You know, I want to actually feel what these people. And so you hear the wailing of the woman when theyfind out there, the loved one has died. They actually have this gazebo right there. And that's her
35:12hospital. And that's where they put the dead bodies that have not, families have not identifiedthe bodies yet. So every now and then you see the family members going into gazebo, looking at like these10 bodies, opening up the zipper, looking at the face, if they can even, like, you know,um, put the face together. And, um, and then you see a shriek. That's like, man, that's freaky.God. Yeah. That's crazy, man. That's a crazy in the word. I don't even know what to say.It was one thing to declare a patient dead. Mm-hmm. But it's another thing to feel the family'spain and see them praying on it and kind of going through that grieving process. And I thinkwe're humans, right? Like,
35:51At the other day, yeah, I'm a doctor.I'm able to compartmentalize my emotions,probably more so than the average non-doctor.And so I almost had to go there and give myself an excuse to cry.Yeah.You know?Because there's no space to cry in the hospital.None of the other doctors are because they just,
36:10they're so focused on taking care of the next patient.They don't get to, you know, they don't have the time to cry.So that's kind of why I wanted to go there.I was like, I want to feel this, man.Yeah. Oh, well, I think it's part of like, I mean, there's times where I'm saying my prayers and stuff, and I feel bad that I'm able to, you know, say prayers in like a safe space and know that they're, you know, that somebody's saying prayers and there's something that feels like nothing is going to hear those, you know?And still, it's like all that they have or maybe all that they have to do.And I think it's like, yeah, you feel bad that you can't be there to feel some of that pain and not like, like maybe some.Sometimes I think, like, well, there's only so much pain.
36:54And so if everybody was there and took a little bit of it, then would it be, you know what I'm saying?Like, it would be divisible.And I don't know if that's true.I don't know if that's even quantifiable.But, yeah, I mean, there's times you feel bad about, you know, it's times you feel bad about not being somewhere when something's horrible because you're like, because you know, because you know that somebody else has to be there.I don't know.I think it helps to grieve in a, in a group.Yes.
37:16That's kind of what you're saying.You know, there were times like, it was insane.We declared a patient dead.the family members turn aroundand they say, are you guys from America?And we're like, yeah.And he's like, thank you so much for coming here.And dude, it's like, your relative just died.
37:30And he's thanking us.And he's like, you know, you guys are taking your safety,your time, your families to come here and take care of us.Like, you know, we were really honored.And it was just like the most heartwarming thing.And we didn't go there, you know,to have feel good stories like that.But, I mean, just the gratitude we experienced
37:46when we were there was incredible.Wow.Yeah.Yeah, do you think that people there feel like no one cares?Yeah, absolutely.And to the point, I asked many people before I left, I was like, what do you want me to do?You know, and everyone basically says, like, don't stop talking.Like, just speak about us as much as you can.
38:05And then the other thing, which I found really humbling, was tell people that we are humans.Like, that's the little demand that they expect of the world.yeah like did you forget that we're humans or something like it almost it must seem like thatwell something some bad piece of information must got out there that we're not even human that'sfucking gross so i have been to israel by the way um back in 2020 and um you see i've never been therei've been laid on my rent thoughi don't i'm fucking i fielded a few emails you know so um yeah well you're paying theirtax we're paying our taxes to them so your money's going there but you haven't been there
38:46that's the hard that's the i think that's a tough partfor a lot of people is I don't know is is understanding why uh why we're finding this I don'tunderstand why Israel would do this I don't understand why that they would do it I don't I feelbad even for my Jewish friends who are having they're having to navigate this pain one of myone of my friends the other day was saying man it's it's wild because you know he's likemost of my life i've known and you learn that um you know just through like jewish teachings andstuff and that you know this horrible thing happened to us this holocaust this thing happened to usin the past and like how we'll fight back and this kind of thing and then now you're uh you have
39:33ancestors and stuff or your history is associated with the thing doing that and it's like he's likeit's just a it's an odd time to navigate that like inside of myself and i can understand withI can understand him when he was sharing some of that.Like, I don't know, life's scary.And it's scary for humans to be regular people at the whim of what their governments chooseand what, like, these, I just don't understand, I don't even understand the ambition that someone would have that would end in mass murder.You know, I don't even, I don't even think it makes sense.Well, they say the awkward part out loud.
40:09If you listen to their government speeches, they were saying, we want to acquire this land.And, you know, listen toMerchheimeron Tucker Carlson.He talks about this. He says,they want that land.And the way to do it is kick out all the Palestinians.And if they can't, which they are not able to
40:26because, you know, the ruffa borders closed,is kill them all, right?And so they're just trying to figure out how to do this.And I think it's probably not economically feasibleto just kill everyone, you know?So now they're trying to create these humanitarian cities,in Raffa. Have you heard about this? Oh my God, look this up. Humanitarian city and Rafa is basicallya concentration camp where they're allowed in, but they're not allowed out unless they want to
40:52voluntarily migrate out of Gaza. So this came out like two weeks ago. And this was a Israelithe so-called humanitarian city in Rafa refers to a con-troversial Israeli proposal to relocatelarge numbers of displaced Palestinians from across Gaza into a designated area in southern Gazanear the border with Egypt.The plan promoted by IDF, Israel, cats,envisioned relocating initially around 600,000 peopleinto heavily controlled camps or encampments in Rafaa.Israel officially described as a humanitarian measure
41:24for civilian protection and possible future immigration.God, it sounds.I mean, eerily familiar.Here's the thing, man.And people like, I've had people say,man, well, why do you talk about this stuff sometimesabout Gaza and that sort of thing?I all all you ever heard growing up from all these movies all this stuff was like the I mean you couldn't even go to the bookstore at the airport with their half the fucking books are about the Holocaust you know it's like we get it too you know but it was chiseled into your brain and people are always like well I can't believe the people right outside of concentration camps never said anything never sounded an alarm never even whistled loudly so I'm like motherfucker what do you what do you if you know what I'm saying like if you you know what I'm saying like if you if you
42:10you see a fucking genocide, you know what I'm saying?You got to say it.And if you're not saying it, that's fucking crazy.That's crazy to not be saying it, especially when you've been taught all your life,you're supposed to say it.So fuck that, man.Anybody that has to, I'm sorry if there's a, and there's other genocides happening.And, yeah, I don't know about a lot of them, but I want to learn about them, you know?
42:35I've just talked to a genocide professor the other day that lives in England.and I'd like to go and interview him to learn more about it, you know.But I'm sorry if I'm late to the genocide game, but also I don't want to be any later to it, you know?Like, I don't know.Let's just get back into what we're talking about.Are there any particular moments that really stood out to you during your tenure there as like providing care?Like things are you like, man, this is like an intense side of conflict or of war or of violence.Yeah, one story it really sticks out is this 30-year-old pregnant lady, 15-week-old baby in her uterus, comes in with trauma, and her blood pressure is dropping.
43:21She clearly has some internal bleeding going on. We put the fetal heart tones on the baby to see if their heart rates going. No fetal heart tones.So we emergently take her up to the emergency operating room. We open up the uterus and extract the fetus.It's essentially a bullet shot through the uterus, through the neck of the fetus.And just to see that was, I don't think a human is expected to see that, you know?Like there's fetal demise, you know, fetal death from various medical causes,but you don't see a exploded fetus with blood coming out of the neck.It was probably the most disgusting thing I've ever seen.And so the fact that she went from almost having a baby in a couple months to never being able to have a baby again
44:06because they had to take the uterus outis one of the most tragic thingsfor a woman especially, right?Like, especially in Gazawhere one of the, the, the biggest honorsis to have children and, you know,bring up the next generationand to know that female,
44:21even though she survived,will never have a child again.You know, really hit me hard,especially because I just had a five-month holdwaiting for me at home.And that was hard to,I'm still thinking about that, you know.but to paradox that
44:37I had a really amazing storywhich if you don't mindI'll shareand this is brotherI'm hereand he's a 1515 year oldthat shows up to the
44:47emergency departmentyou knowI don't see his faceI'm just focusingon his blood pressurewhich is likealmost nothingand so we're putting
44:56an ultrasound on his heartand there's bloodaround his heartso his heart can't beatbecause there's just too much bloodso we we put this tubeemergently into his heartand relieve the pressure
45:08and his blood pressure spikes back up again.He's still unconscious.Two days later,the doctor who was taking care of himbrings him to me.He's like, do you know who this is?I was like, I have no idea.I never saw his face.
45:20And he's like, I don't know.Is that your child?And he's like, no, I'm like, look at him.And I have no idea.And so he asked me, he asked the kidto like lift up his shirtand I see the scar where I put the tube in.And dude, this guy is smiling.
45:32Like, such a beautiful smile.and he's literally going to be discharged in two days.And look at that smile.So he's just such a beautiful.Oh, he's geeked.Yeah, man.It was probably the happiest story.If I went to Gaza and I just had that story,
45:47I would come back a happy man, you know?And that's what being able to provide medical care is all about.Just that one experience.Oh, that's great, dude.Wow.Yeah, that's cool.But, you know, that's, unfortunately, this is far too common.Right.
46:02I gave this example, but there's so many kids.You know, I'll tell you one more story, if you don't mind.Just pull it up here real quick.This is a one-year-old, and there was an explosion.You know, this baby had 85% of the body burned, which is pretty much guaranteed death.The team still tried to get some access into one of the blood vessels to give fluids, but they were unable to.So they had to declare the baby dead.Why is it hard to get access to a vessel of a baby?
46:37Well, with 85% burns, you basically have lost all your volume, your water.There's like no fluid in you anymore.To flow into.Exactly.So there's just nothing to get access into.So then they had to tell the mom that, you know, the baby died, one year old.The mom collapses.And I need to take care of the mom.
46:55Anyways, after we finally got that taken care of, this is the baby.And this is a one-year-old baby.And then this is what I see next, the father taking this one-year-old to the morgue.And it's just like, to me, I see that man.And I'm like, man, if would I be that strong to be able to hold my one-year-old in this foil wrap and walk to the morgue minutes after pronounced dead by the doctor?I don't think I would, you know?And I look at these gossans, and they're just so used to death at this point that it's like, okay, what's next?You know?
47:29And they're like machines.and I think truly it's their faiththat gets them through itthey really don't have anything elsewe talked about itthere's no humanity leftthey feel like no one in the world's listeningand it's really sad
47:44just to hear those stories from themthat they just want to be noticedI think it's changingyou know I think in America especiallypeople are talking about itprops to you man like the fact that you're talking about iton your podcast I think that's amazingI think I'm in fact
47:58can I ask you a questionyeah like whatWhat made you start talking about this?Well, kind of like what I said before,it was like, well, this just seems to like be everythingthat I've ever learned that seemed like wrong.And then at a certain point,it just seemed like this was just like,
48:14like they were trying to like exterminate a people, you know?And I think my biggest thing in my life when I was a kid,I never had a voice, right?I never had anybody to speak up for me.I never had anybody to speak on my behalf.I never, I was too scared to speak on my own behalf.Like, I just, like, I mean, I just felt furious that I, there was nobody advocating for me, right?There was nobody advocating for me in the world or my siblings, really.
48:41And so, yeah, I just like, I think I did some of that kind of resonated with some of that same feeling that I had when I was a kid.And I was like, I just, the last thing I, like, all I just, I just want to have a voice, right?And I just, yeah, I don't know.I'm getting chatty about.it well you got you have a moral compass is what I understand well I just want to have avoice it's like this is a fucking voice this these people don't have a voice right orit feels like they don't and I don't understand why and it's the same feeling as when Idon't have a voice and so it's like I just know that it couldn't be wrong and if it is
49:13wrong here's a thing if it's wrong what the fuck do I lose you know what do I likewhat do anybody lose if I'm wrong about a group of people getting massacred orwhatever oh my bad yeah so that'sthe thing. I just don't see any of the other side. I mean, I was definitely scared a lot of times,you know, but I think if somebody said to me, you can't talk about that, or I'm not going to bea sponsor on your show, or I would say it. I feel like I would mention it. I feel like it would be,you know, that's part of me of having a voice as well. And then other people say stuff andand then people secretly will say like, thanks for trying to say stuff. And I don't know.
49:53I don't know, man. I think it, but it just fucking made me so angry. I just don't understand. Andwhy are we still doing this shit, you know?You know, there's a recent Gallup poll that said one third of Americans stillbasically, you know, agree with what Israel is doing to Gaza.So what does that mean?Majority of Americans do not agree with what Israel is doing to Gaza at this point.So I think humanity is waking up.I think, you know, American, we have good moral values, man.
50:20And I don't know what the hell the politicians are doing that, you know, doesn't representthe American people.I've talked to almost everyone I work with at work.and everyone's so interested to hear about what's going on in Gaza.And they're all normal people.Dude, they just want kids to survive, moms to survive, you know, brothers, fathers to survive,get some food and call it today.Like, let's get this over with, man.
50:42Now, every day, is there trauma in these, in the hospitals?Like, is it always full of, like, these MCIs?Or is it, like, are there times when it's a little bit quiet?Like, what was that like?It's not always MCIs, but there's always trauma coming here and there.There are sometimes when it's quiet.But the hospital is always jam-packed with trauma patients.So, for example, it's a 250-bed hospital officially,
51:05which is a small community hospital that probably has a thousand patients in there.And they're almost all trauma patients.So, for example, chronic care is completely forgotten about, right?People with cancer, you know, forget it.Yeah, take that shit down the road, I mean, yeah.Chemo, dude.Just hang your head out of a window here.Sadly, that's true.
51:23Yeah, I mean, it's just ridiculous shit.So anything like thatBut so no chronic careLike if you had the measles or somethingWe don't have time for thatWe don't have time for thatThere's no resources either rightThere's diseases popping out
51:36That we should see in textbooksThat are popping up in GazaBecause there's no clean waterThere's no vaccinesThere's everything that you would expectIn a third world countryIs being recognized in GazaBut it's all manmade
51:50It's all engineeredIt's every solutionIs like 30 minutes awayat the border, just not being allowed in by Israel.You know, whether it's Egypt or Jordan, it's there.It's just not able to come in.And that's where, you know, my push is let's get these UN organizations that have been doing it for decades.Let's give them the responsibility.
52:10Why aren't we given the responsibility?Have they been compromised?Well, that's what Israel will say, right?Like that UN, WRA has some Hamas elements in it or something.But that's been debunked by many NGOs.And, you know, you can fact check me on that.But I don't think they've been compromised.I think they're just seeing the reality that majority of the world is seen.
52:30The GHF took over AIDS, supporting Gaza, after Israel and the United States responding to accusations that Hamas was diverting humanitarian aid insisted on a new aid mechanism.Okay, the GHF was set up with backing from both governments.But the GHF was having problems now, right?Aren't they saying now that the Hamas was commandeering some of their supplies?It's always an excuse.Right.But I'm specifically talking about the UNRWA, which is historically has been providing aid in Gaza.So they said that had Hamas elements in it, and that's why they shut that down.
53:00And again, there's news articles that basically say that's not, we fact checked it, we fact checked it and it's not true.And this is on perplexity.UNRWA, why are they no longer providing aid in Gaza?UNRWA is no longer providing aid in Gaza, primarily due to a combination of Israeli government bans on its operation in the area and major donor suspensions.following Israeli allegations that a small number of UNRWA employees participated in the October 7th,2023 Hamas attacks. Okay. When you did sleep, so if you said it earlier, that sometimes you can onlywork like four hours a day? The shifts in the ER they were recommending up to four hours a day just becauseit's so intense. But, you know, the surgeons were doing as much as they can. There's really no rules
53:41as to what you can do there. You can work as much as you want. Obviously, you wouldn't work aslittle as you want. You went there to help patients. But you know what I realized whenyou're there, you're not just a doctor. You're a journalist. We were having media reach out to usand say, hey, can you get a video of this? Can you get a video of that? Because there's no outsidejournalism allowed, right? So we as Americans got to see firsthand. So we know, we got interviewed bymany different organizations when we were there, NBC, NPR, Democracy Now, some media organizationin Australia. They all reached out to us and like props to them because at the end of the day,we wanted our voices heard. So again, thank you for giving me this opportunity to talk. I think
54:16it's super important. And like we were talking about before the show, I think I'm the first personin America that has actually been to Gaza talking about it on a show like this. And so I just wantto tell you what I objectively saw. And I actually gave a, you know, in medicine, we have thisbig conference called Grand Rounds. I actually just on Wednesday, this past Wednesday I gavea Grand Rounds at my hospital. And it got a pretty good reception because I was just objective. Nopolitics. You make your own decision. I'm going to show you pictures. I'm going to show youdata and you can make your owndecision, right? I can't tell you how much
54:50positive feedback I received after that. And it hadall the gory stuff in it, too, because it was doctors.It's all medical related.Yeah, I mean, I think I just got to inspire aboutMiss Rachel, to be honest with you, man.Do you props to you, man? That's amazing.Well, I shouldn't be watching children's programming.Do you have kids? I'm going to say that. No, I don't.
55:06And so that's even making it worse.That is kind of weird, man. Well, thanks, Doc.Well, but, okay.Moving on.I will say thisYeah, Miss Rachel's beenShe's been like a championYou know
55:20And then how I met you wasI saw a woman onTikTokHer name was HebaH-EBA, I thinkOh yeahYeahAnd she said
55:29Oh I know two doctorsThat I just heard fromOr somethingAnd then she connected me with youSo it's just kind of crazyI mean I just saw a TikTokAnd I was likeI just want to learn more
55:37You knowI'm just kind of shockedSometimesAt like the major news networksAren't talking aboutAnd I'm likeWhat the fuck are weWhat are you
55:43You knowAnd then it's likeIt's like all about the Epstein shit.Like, yeah.Anyway, I don't know.It's fucking crazy.That's what we're choosing.That's even part of the discussion.
55:52What were situations like with children there and providing care to children?Like, what was the realities of that?Like, was, were you able to, like, save any, like, keep them from the gore?Like, was there, you know, because usually, you know, a lot of times with, in,there's, like, children's hospitals and there's hospitals and then there's places for kids, right?It's a little bit different and less severe.What was that like there?So there was a kid's hospital, but it wasn't the trauma hospital.
56:17So all the kids' trauma still came to Nassar Hospital.They're right next to each other.And so we were seeing all the kid trauma as well.And the kid trauma was different, man.Just so, you know, difficult to see and experience.It was difficult to process, difficult to treat, difficult to talk to the family members with these children.I mean, you're seeing kids as young as one, you know, sometimes, you know, infants.but majority of them are like, you know, young boys, young girls, and just why?
56:47Like, you know, we asked, I love to hear people's stories, right?So I asked this one girl, like, what were you doing through the family?Because I don't speak Arabic, so we were using translators.And she's like, oh, I was just sitting in my tent reading the Quran, which is like the holy book, like reading the Bible, right?And this quadcopter just shot through the tent and here I am, you know?And you know there's some weirdness going on when a bullet goes from up to down, you know?Like, people usually get shot from forward to back, right?From up to down, and sitting in a tent is very strange.
57:18So, you know, there are some people who are suspicious about quadcopter shooting middle of tents,which is in the green zone, the safe zone, where civilians live.But it's almost every day we are hearing of civilians, girls, boys being shot by quadcopters.I haven't seen one myself, but I wasn't out there, right?I was in the hospital.We said quadcopter.What do you mean by that?Well, this is kind of interesting.
57:39So there are basically these drones that have been engineered to shoot.It has like an assault rifle on them, remotely activated.It's like a kind of a drone, so to speak.Does it look like that kind of?I haven't seen one.Oh, you haven't.They say if you see one, you're probably going to get shot.Granted, we were American.
58:00But we weren't allowed to go there anyways.But could you hear drones ever?Oh, yeah.Oh, 24-7.There's drone buzzing over you.Really?Yeah.They say they know where everyone is.
58:09They're watching everyone.Everyone's face.It's probably some crazy AI stuff.I mean, honestly, I think they probably, like, have everyone's phone, you know, attract.We're connecting to the Israeli towers, too.So it's like, they know where we are.Yeah, there's a company called Palantir.I know that I believe, see if you can bring that up, that I believe had, which I believe
58:32was helping some of the drone AI work over in Gaza.Palantir allegedly enables Israel AI targeting and Gaza raising concerns overwar crimes um earlier this month and this says allegedly earlier this month uh saw a continuationof that effort with the targeting of three well marked or fully approved aid vehicles belongingto world central kitchen killing their seven occupants and ensuring that the food would neverreach those dying of starvation the targeting was precise placing missiles dead center in the aidagency's rooftop logos israel however said it was simply a mistake similar to the mistakenkillings of nearly 200 other aid workers in just a matter of months.
59:13Such horrendous mistakes are hard to understand, considering the enormous amount of advancedtargeting AI hardware and software provided to the Israeli military and spy agencies, someof it by one American company, in particular, Palantir Technologies.We stand with Israel, the Denver-based company said, in posts on X and LinkedIn, the boardof directors of Palantir will be gathering in Tel Aviv next week for its first meeting of the Newyear. So when wasthis? April2024. Oh, so this is... Yeah, I remember that.
59:45So there was a... It's a while back.Yeah, well, there was an Israeli website972 mag that actuallycalled this out. So it'sIsraeli information. I think it's ProjectLavender. And there'sa mission where the AIbasically gets permission to
01:00:00kill a Hamas commander if there's like 300collateral damage. And then if that'slike, if it's going to go over 300 civilians,then there's an operation that gets activated calledlike daddy's home where it waits for that Hamas guy to go home and just shoots the entire family.It's just crazy.Like the fact that this is completely normalized now.And I think this is, I think this is experimental.
01:00:19I think this is what's going to, you know, the future is going to have everything to do with what we're saying here.I agree with you.Go back to that first article.The project involves selling the ministry on artificial intelligence platform that usesreams of classified intelligence reports to make life or death determinations about which target to attack.And an understatement several years ago, Carp admitted our product is used on occasion to kill people, the morality of which he himself occasionally questions.I have asked myself, if I were younger at college, would I be protesting me?Yeah, and this is allegedly, this is just stuff that I'm reading from an article here.
01:00:55What website is this?This is business and human rights resource center.What's wild is that this is the same company that's now has a contract to,operate in America.Palantir lands $10 billion Army software and data contract.So Palantir has linked a contract with the U.S. Army worth up to $10 billionto meet growing warfare demands over the next decade.As part of the deal, Palantir will help the military streamline efficiencies while preparing
01:01:25for threats, consolidating 75 total contracts into one enterprise deal.The agreement creates a comprehensive framework for the Army's future software and data needs.So I think my fear is thatIn the futureThis is what it would be likeWe'll be living in a surveillance stateAnd this is what it'll be likeAnd I hate to say that
01:01:45But I don't know if it's my fearIt just seems likeLike that's kind of where we're headedYou knowDid it ever seem over there?Yeah like it was a experimental grounds over thereLike it must seem so dystopianLike what even
01:02:00Because does it feel like a war whereDo you see like Hamas troops?Like do you see?see any of that military? No. It seemed overkill for what we were visualizing. Like,you know, you see F-35 or F-16. I'm not sure which one, but some fast jet flying overhead atnight. And then you hear the drone buzzing. Then you hear the tank, the Murkava tanks and thedistance. You can see them with your own eyes, right? And then you hear them shooting. And then youcan hear the shell landing. And then you hear the patchy helicopter shooting. And then you hear the
01:02:27rockets landing. And it's like, how is this all happening against some people underground? Like,something's not adding up. And then, like I said, from aa doctor's perspective, you're seeing the casualties which are civilians. I mean, you can makewhatever conclusion you want about what's going on from the military aspect. And I am also suspiciouslike what is going on. Is it just like a big show of different equipment? We actually had asituation where there was some sort of a gas being used and patients were asphyxating. But wedidn't know what it was. There was no testing, right? But, you know, the x-ray was normal. The chest x-ray was normal. But the patients were to fix it. It was really weird. And we had no idea what we were treating. So we would just watch them in the ICU, make sure there were, you know, oxygen was okay. So there's some weird stuff going on. And it's not just me saying that if you look at some of the locals, there's, there's bombs, which we've never heard before. There's explosions that we've never seen before. One time we saw this bomb that's,It's like a shotgun bomb that explodes in the thousands of pellets and just disfigures the body.
01:03:38It doesn't penetrate as deeply, but it just completely disfigures the body.And it's just like, man, like what is going on?There's so many, such a variety of different things from a military point of view going on.And I'm just seeing the results of it in the ER from, again, kids, women, children, elderly, handicapped people.And something doesn't add up.Yeah.Yeah, I think that's the feeling it gets even here.It's like, what, what, what's happening?
01:04:05And then the weird thing, too, is like, we're seeing this, right?Like, just on TikTok social media, you're seeing video.It's like, well, does that not, do nobody even care anymore if that's happening?Like, are we becoming, like, immune to it?Is that happening just to put videos out to make people immune to a massacre?Like, I don't understand.Like, it starts to make, because then I start wondering, am I part of some experiment, you know?And I just, I don't know.
01:04:32I just don't even understand it.But then it does start to make you believe in pure evil because you're like,well, what else would do something like this?Yeah, there's actually this interview with Peter Thiel,with some, I think some pastor who's asking him, like, you know,when the Antichrist comes, what kind of technology thing you think he's going to be using?And then he's like, oh, I think Greta Thienberg, you know,I think that she's going to develop the technology for the Antichrist.
01:04:58And then the pastor's like, well, you're developing this like defense companythat has all this technology,don't you think maybethe Antichristwould be using your company?He's like, no, I don't see that.You're going to watch that.Really? Let me see it.
01:05:10It's awesome.Pull it up.This is my very specific question for you, right,is that you're an investor in AI.You're deeply invested in Palantir,in military technology,in technologies of surveillance,and technologies of warfare, and so on, right?
01:05:30And it just seems to methat when you tell me a story about the Antichrist coming to power and using the fear of technological change to sort of impose order on the world,I feel like that Antichrist would maybe be using the tools that you were building, right?Like, wouldn't the Antichrist be like, great, you know, we're not going to have any more technological progress.But I really like what Palantir has done so far, right?I mean, isn't that a concern?And wouldn't that be the, you know, the irony of history would be that the man publicly worrying about the Antichrist accidentally hastens his or her arrival?There are all, look, there are all these different scenario.
01:06:18I obviously don't think that that's what I'm doing.I mean, to be clear, I don't think that's, I don't think that's what you're doing either.I'm just interested in how you get to a world willing to submit to permanent.an authoritarian rule.Well, but...Doesn't have an answer.But again, there are these different gradations of this we can describe, but is this so preposterouswhat I've just told you as a broad account of the stagnation that the entire world has submitted
01:06:53for 50 years to peace and safetyism?This is a first Thessalonians 5-3.The slogan of the Antichrist is peace and safety.And we've submitted.I mean, it's a, and you know what?It's scary to be alive, but at the same time, it's like, this is where you are.This is where we are.And most people just want to take care of their families, you know.
01:07:17They just want to get home and get their kids safe and get them fed, you know.And, yeah.What's their relationship to Hamas?Do you feel any relationship to Hamasana?the people, did you see, like, did you perform any surgeries on any Hamas military? What was thatlike there? I mean, I did not see any combatants. We don't know who's a combatant or not.But no, I did not treat any Hamas. I did ask the local people, like, what are your thoughtsabout Hamas? And, you know, at the end of the day, I would say some of them support them.
01:07:49Some of them don't. At the end of the day, they're a political entity in Gaza. They weredemocratically elected, I think, back in the 2000s.You're going to have every type of opinion on that.Just like in America.You know, you have different political factions.And so over there, it's a political faction.Obviously, in America, they're considered a terrorist organization.But locally, they're not, right?
01:08:10So, but yeah, just to answer your question, no, I did not see any or treat any obvious compatence.Yeah.I'm just curious if you see any of their military guys over there.Yeah, I don't, you know, I thought about that when I was there.I don't think they're stupid enough to come to the hospital because they know that drone is watching.Oh, you know.And I don't think they would risk the hospital being bombed.But granted, Israel has done that to other hospitals already.
01:08:37Yeah.I think it's intentional, systemic collapse of the healthcare system.And it's perfect.You know, right now we're talking about famine.But this famine is not random.Like, it was engineered.It starts months ago, right?Your body doesn't starve overnight.
01:08:53It takes three or four months for all your calories to go away.your glycogen storage and your liver,then your body starts eating the muscles,then your body starts eating, you know, your bones.It takes months for that to happen.And now we're seeing the last stage of starvationfor the first set of people.It's just going to get logarithmic being exponentially worse
01:09:16until we reverse this.And even when we reverse it,it's not like you just feed some starving person,some chicken or a steak, and they suddenly become good.Or yeah, or some nuggets or something.Well, it's a re-feeding syndrome.So it's a problem of electrolytes.You need to have some pretty specialized nutritionists there in Gaza, alongside with the doctors,
01:09:38alongside with the aid.And we're at a point of no return.Unless things change immediately, I'm very scared of what's going to happen next.Is that true?You really believe that?I'm very unfortunately pessimistic the way we're seeing our government respond to what's happening there.Oh, for sure.I'm surprised because America's supposed to be the one to help, right?
01:09:57Right? And it's like usually you see something bad and you think, oh, a miracle will help.And the people want to help.That's right.The people want to help.That's why it's like I hope that those people know that we don't support that kind of stuff.We don't support or I feel like we've always been taught not to support that sort of cruel, you know, cruelty.Yeah.And that's, you know, I think that's one thing.
01:10:18It's just.But then also throughout time, governments have, you know, people have always had to sit in the shadow of their government.and wish it wasn't as dark, you know, I think.But I wish I could speak to Trump.I mean, as a physician, maybe a group of physicians can go talk to him personally, 10 minutes,just tell him what we saw.And, hey, man, can you just flood Gaza with aid?I mean, is that really too much to ask for?
01:10:42But how does he not know that, I wonder?He admitted it.I don't know why he doesn't, he's like, why are you working with Israel?You're more powerful than Israel.Just go there and decide, wait, we're flooding aid.that's it. He has a right to do that. I mean, America's the most powerful nation in the world,right? We all know that. Militarily, economically. I mean, Trump basically says what he wants and hegets it, right? I don't know why there's something about Israel that is holding them back.
01:11:11Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think that's like some stuff out ofour grade of understanding sometimes. And I think it's like that at different levels. I just thinkWe don't know.And then it's like, are we all like, I don't know, it starts to feel like you're on a damn game show or something.It starts to feel, you know, and I can't even imagine what it feels like if you're in the game.Like if you, you know, trapped, you feel like you're trapped in an experimental land.Why do you think the world is seemingly apprehensive to like to stop these atrocities from continuing there?Well, I think it depends which country you're talking about.
01:11:49I think the people want to stop this genocide, but every country has its own kind of problem that they're having to deal with, whether you're talking about Egypt or Jordan, whether you're talking about the Arab states, whether you're talking about Europe, you know, I don't really know what Russian China are doing, but yeah, American Israel are kind of like the ones leading this genocide. And I hate to say it because it's my country, but I don't know what's going on with the American politics.politicians that they just want to continue this thing.Let's talk about Egypt and Jordan, too.Like, what are some, because you see, like, that Jordan doesn't allow Gazans in.Is that true?And I'm sorry, I know it's not your responsibility, but you may know more that than I do.Yeah, I'll talk, I mean, I'll talk briefly on this.And again, that's why it's nice to have a Palestinian on your show and who can speak on this.
01:12:40But I will just say, Gaza does not share a border with Jordan, right?So Israel would have to allow that exodus to Jordan.So normally people historically have left through the Raffa border into Egypt, but Egypt basically said they closed the Rafa border.And now Rafa has been completely taken over by Israel, so no human soul can actually go into Rafa to even evacuate to Egypt.I think initially they try to forcefully, you know, displace everyone into the Sinai Peninsula, but Egypt basically put a hard stop on that.But in my opinion, they should have at least allowed women and children,in the sixth to leave.Let's see what perplexity has to say here.
01:13:24Egypt did not allow people to leave Gaza primarily because the Rafa border crossing,the only exit from Gaza, not controlled by Israel,was closed on the Palestinian side after Israel seized it during the 2024 Rafa offensive.Egypt also cited concerns about the security and the need for proper proceduresbefore allowing crossings,stating that any movements, including those of foreign delegations or activists,need prior approval due to the volatile situation.So maybe they didn't want Hamas in their country.
01:13:54Yeah, that's essentially it.Got it.I think at the end of the day,the conversation has to be about how we can get aid back into Gaza, right?And, you know, push our politicians and President Trump to, you know,kind of uses power and leverage over Netanyahu and say,when you are allowing aid in, no matter what.because what we're seeing on Twitter,
01:14:18what we're seeing on TV is unacceptable, man.It's 2025 and we're seeing kids really rot away.It's pathetic.And the fact that people are now trying to deny it,I mean, come on, man.I think this most recent picture that's New York Times article,have you heard about this?This mom and this baby,
01:14:35it shows a baby starving.And the mom apparently does not look like she's starving.And so Israel's media basically saying,well, there's no starvation.going on there.Yeah.Like, wait, what are you telling methe baby starving but not the mom?
01:14:51Well, they're sayingthe mom is selfishand not feeding the babyapparently.And now they're saying,well, now the babyhad a preexisting condition.Of course,
01:14:59everyone in the hospitalhas preexisting conditions, right?Yeah, well,it's hard to sleepnext to fucking missilesgoing off.That's right.I could imagine
01:15:07that that's a preexistingcurse, you know?I mean,I wet the bedis because I would get an asswhoopin every nowin then, dude.I cannot even
01:15:15imagine.trying to wet the bed when you haven't had a cup of water in a fucking month.That's right.So I don't, I just, I don't understand.I just do not understand.It's like you're taught your whole life.This is how to do things.This is when you, you know, G.I. Joe type shit.
01:15:32This is when your country helps out.And then you're watching this.It's almost like you're being forced to watch it.Like the algorithm is, it's all this stuff.And then it's like, but don't, you can't feel this way about it.Or that's not right.or this has been, it's just like, it's bizarre, man.Well, you know, I think you deserve a lot of credit for talking about this.
01:15:53I think a lot of people are scared to talk about it, you know.I was initially scared to talk about it at work.But then I was like, you know what?This is a medically related genocide.I mean, I have the right to say it's a genocide as a health care worker.It's not legally binding.Only the International Court of Justice can actually label it officially a genocide,which is going to take like 15 years.
01:16:11And at that point, there will be no Gaza.You know, so, like, we can't wait for that.I'm going to label it a genocide as a health care worker, and many other people are.And even in Israel, like Betselaum has labeled it a genocide.Genocides, Holocaust survivors have basically said it's a genocide.So, Mandy Patinking came out and said, dude.Boom.From freaking criminal minds.
01:16:31Well, he has a moral compass.How could you not, dude?You know how many fucking criminals he's busted?I'm going to trust that guy.That's easy.That is easy, man.And I thought that that was brave of him to say something.but I don't know
01:16:45people shouldn't feel goodbecause they fucking just saidsomething that seems likeit makes senseI don't know dudeyou'd be surprisedif you went to Gazaand you told people
01:16:54hey I spoke upyou are better thanthe rest of humanity to themthat's all they wantthey just want you to speak upthey're not expectingyou and I to save the daythey're not expecting you and I
01:17:05to get rid of the bombsand the drones and the tanksthey just want us toto be a voicelike you said beforeand try to convince who we can,whether it be our family, our friends,that these people are human.
01:17:19They're not all Hamas, okay?And they deserve to live.They deserve to be educated.They deserve to have fun, smile,to see their kids grow up.At the end of the day, it's about just humanism.And it sounds kind of cliche.Why am I a doctor, right?
01:17:34Because I love taking care of people.That's the interview question that got me into medical school.But when I went to Gaza,I truly, I can say with true conviction,that I was so honored to be a physician.There was no financial payments.There was no insurance.You know, there was no conflicts of interest.
01:17:53It was literally pure patient care.And it was the most beautiful thing I've ever experienced.And I felt so honored and blessed that there's two,you know, there's however many billion people on the earth.And only maybe 500 doctors in the last two years have actually been there.And I was one of them.I felt really blessed, you know.And I will say,
01:18:13if you talked to maybe all these 500 doctors,they'll say the same thing,that children are being blown up,that women are being shot,that fathers are being killed.They're going to tell you the same thing,especially these last three months,talk to all the doctors
01:18:25who have been in the last three months,and they're going to say the same thing.There's famine, there's starvation,there's, you know, anemia,there's mothers who can't breastfeed anymore.There's no formula.There's no food.What food are they getting?
01:18:38Okay, that's a great question.They're getting flour.They're getting, well, they have zucchini,tomatoes and peppers, which they growdomestically. And so from outsideOkay. Okay. Sofrom outside, they're getting flour.Sugar comes in, but
01:18:53it's extremely expensive.And they usedto have rice, but it's basically flour and chickpeasnow. Okay. Beans, flour,and chickpeas. Okay. And where do theybuy it from? Is there a shop or something?Yeah, so they have markets, which is tentwith, like, you know, food.
01:19:09And unfortunately, theinflation there is serious. So, forexample, I think tomatoes have gone up like 3,000% in the last few months or before this conflictto now, it's like 3,000%. I have a chart, which I'll share with you. And it was in my grandrounds that I was talking about. And it's a cash economy there. So when people take it other bankaccounts, it's like 50% of their value is lost in this transaction. So like a bag of cucumbersand tomatoes in America might cost $10.It costs like $50 there.
01:19:46But that's after the 50% cut.So it's $100 U.S. dollars to buy a bag of tomatoes and cucumbers.Just inflation is crazy.A bag of flour, which maybe 20 kilograms, which would last like a normal average family,maybe two to three weeks, costs $500 U.S. dollars.It's not possible, right?So people are going to the GHF sites because they can't afford.that. Right. So they have to go there
01:20:12to get food. The poor in Gazacannot afford that. Who is selling foodat those prices? Like, is it Hamas or no?No, it's not Hamas. It's gangs insideof Gaza. So that's a whole different conversationif you want to get into. We can talk about it. Yeah, I'd love to talk about that.So the gangs are a whole different problem in Gaza.So I think what the Israeli military
01:20:32realizes they just can't do the job that they wereintending to do. They can't destroy Hamas.So they have employed a new methodologyWhere they have basically taken people in Gaza who hate HamasSo ex-prisoners that were probably in Gaza beforeAnd employed themSo they basically dropped these little bombsThat shoot out little e-sims and say, hey, call us if you want to work with us
01:20:55Sim cards, you mean?Yeah, SIM cards, that's what I meant.And it says, call us.So this person who wants to sell out basically calls them,Hey, we'll protect your family, we're gonna make sure your family's happy,we're gonna give you some money, we'll make sure we'll never bomb youetc. Is that true?I mean, I'm telling you what I was told.
01:21:11Abu Shabab is this main gang leader.Okay.He actually, there's news articles about him.Yeah, Yasser Abu Shabab.He works with the IDF.And so his gang basically gets first dibson the aid coming in.So he and his gang steal the aid
01:21:28and then they go to the marketand sell at super high prices.And you might think, oh, this is like an internalGhazan problem, but it's not.It's all engineered by the,Israeli army. Okay, here's what it says here. Organized gangs often tied to large families or clansand sometimes involved in pre-war smuggling or petty crime have become the principal forces controllingthe trade and distribution of food. Notably, an armed group called the Popular Forces, led by Yasser
01:21:53Abu Shabab, is active in southern Gaza. This group described as a criminal gang by aid workersand analysts is while he accused of looting aid trucks and charging protection bribes to traders.Abu Shababab's group has been linked to the theft.and resale of aid,and some reports allege it operates openlyunder Israeli military control.So that's just alleged, but...Yeah, it's alleged.
01:22:14But, you know, I will say,if you go to Gaza with a gun,guess what's going to happen?What?You get drill-strikeed, right?These guys are walking on the streetswith their guns shooting in the air.Yeah, we were in the hospital
01:22:25looking outside,and there's like,you just hear this AK-40s,and I asked the locals,I was like, I thought you can't have a gun in Gaza.And, like, you can't.And I was like, so how was that guyshooting a gun openly in the air,
01:22:35trying to get everyone awayfrom the aid in their IDF associated gangs.It's like contractors.Yeah, it's contractors.But like it's logic, right?If you are walking around with the gun in Gaza, that drone is watching you.You are going to die.But what is also the rumors of Hamas controlling food there?
01:22:53I have no evidence for that.And I don't even see how that's feasible.I mean, how are they going to loot the trucks when that drone is watching?That drone is, that surveillance drone is watching every single move ofEveryone in Gaza.So tell me that you walk outside,you can hear the drone?Oh, yeah.
01:23:10It's just buzzing over you 24-7.How many are there, do you think?I mean, I'm sure there's a couple in Gaza.I'm sure it was one dedicated just for Han Yunus.You know, I'm sure one's dedicated for Gaza City up north.I don't know.You're going to have to ask some.Can you watch a live feed or anything or no?
01:23:24Like of the,or you know what I'm saying?Like a, um...No, you can't really see them.They're pretty high up.You can really see.But you can hear it.You can hear them.
01:23:30Yeah.It's just as buzz.You can kind of get used to it.Yeah.It was freaky when we first got thereYou just hear explosions and you hear this drone overheadAnd you just don't know what's going to happen nextAnd you just get used to it
01:23:42Remember one time we went to some showsAnd I can't remember the nameIt was some base where duringLike Afghanistan timesAnd they would have the alarm on the baseWould go off and that meant that like somethingHe'd come into the baseLike come like a projectile like come into the base
01:24:00So people would just stand around like waiting for something to happenIt was so creepybut I can't even imagine that being under that stress 24 hours.What do you think are some of the long-term effectsof like this sort of trauma and stress there in Gazaand the people there?Oh, man, that's a great question.That's going to be generational, man.
01:24:18The stuff that kids are seeing, like,their father's brains being splattered.We're seeing in the ER,and it's hard for me as a physician to see that.Imagine being a kid and having to see your family memberdying in front of you.I mean, I don't know.What do you think?
01:24:33I think it's common sense.Every child is going to just have trauma that they can't get over.I don't think there's any psychiatrist in the world that can treat these people in Gaza.I don't think it's normal.It's just like the Holocaust, right?What happened there was so tragic that we still talk about it, right?Yeah.And it's going to be, in my opinion, a very similar concept.
01:24:55Yeah.Do you think they're going to let the people out of there?Did it feel like there's a solution coming?What did you feel like?Did you feel like the people there felt likeThey still had hope? What was that like?I think a lot of people want to leave GazaEspecially those people who have kids and families
01:25:12And just want to give the best for theirYou know, best opportunity for the kidsThere were some, a lot of students who want to study abroadLike the UK or QatarAnd you can see that that's their way outBut there was also a large segment of the populationThat basically said, we're not leaving our homelandAnd there's nothing you can do about it
01:25:31And it was like, dang, do you?You got some faith, and you got to give props to those people.Oh, those are like Alabama fans, dude.You know what I'm saying, bro?That's true.They're fucking, yeah.Those are the next level, right?I mean, they are locked in, dude.
01:25:47Were you an Alabama fan or LSU?I'm LSU fan.I like UT, too, in Vanderbilt since I live in Tennessee now.But, yeah, I mean, that's just, that's an intensity, you know?Yeah, so you know what I'm talking about, if you want to compare it to that.But, yeah, I mean, kind of.But, I mean, yeah, it's like.some people that's, you know, you stay locked into your home.
01:26:06I don't know.I don't know.Sometimes if you lose your home,people feel like they have anything,especially some people that have already lost their family.You know.I will say Gossans are probably the most stubborn people you'll ever meet in a good way, right?They don't give up.
01:26:21You know,you go there and they're smiling at you.And you wouldn't even know they're going through a genocideuntil you actually start talking to them.And I went there, like, you know, as a procedural list,like I said, as a doctor.But one thing I realized is likeI was just a brother.
01:26:35I was just another brotherwho put my hand on someone's shoulderand I said, man, just talk to me.You know, tell me what's going on.And it took me a few days to get to this level with peoplebecause the trust thing is real, the mistrust.So once I got to really trust peopleand they got to trust me,
01:26:52people opened up to me, man.Like there was this, I don't want to saythe specialty because I don't want to compromise him.You know, people are very scared to talkopenly on cameraespecially because I actually asked some of themhey I was like can I get your testimony on cameraand I'll show people back home to tell you a story
01:27:07and they're like no absolutely notbut there was this guy in the hospital workinghe was jailed for two monthsno charges he told me about his jailingexperience and I'll get to thatas another doctor who was a surgeonhe was jailed for a year no chargesand again we're talking about
01:27:23doctors being arrestedand put in maximum security prisonsor jails with nocharges and then being let go and so like, oh, you can go back to your normal life. You knowhow much psychological toll that happens there? And he didn't really tell me the entire storybecause you could just tell so much crap happened to him. He was talking about the skindiseases he got. He was talking about how they're not allowed to talk to their neighborand there's like 200 people in just the space and they're basically zip tied and
01:27:50blindfolded. And imagine doing that for two months or a year. And the guards would beat themif they talked to their, you know,co-jail, co-prisoners.I mean, it just, I just don't understandhow we can be normalizing thatin the health care field.Like, doctors, nurses,healthcare workers, I just don't get it.
01:28:13Like, what do you mean by that?Like, you know, if a pedophileor a serial killer goes to jail,have at it, man.Put them in jail, put them in maximum security.You're talking about an innocent physician,an innocent surgeon, an innocent nurse.Like, how can you?
01:28:27we accept that as human beings? Right. Number of detained medical workers right here,according to the head of information for the Hamas-led Gaza Health Ministry. Over 365 healthcareworkers are being held in Israeli prisons as of early 2025. Yeah, so I met two of them, right?They were, they were let go without charges. I mean... They were? Yeah. And where do they live at?They live in a tent, man. In the Conunis, there's a tent city, one-third of Gaza, all live in this placecalled Mawasi Camp.I'll sort of you a picture of this.And it's just tents.
01:28:59Like, you literally just find a plot of land.You put your tent down and you have like 20 family members living in there.Yeah.So, like, each one of those is a tent, right?Oh, that's pretty crazy looking?Yeah, it's not like just you and your wife.It's like you and your wife and your family and kids and in-laws.So this is kind of the new Gaza here.
01:29:14Yeah, it's one-third of Gaza's right here.Wow.What's the vibes here, man?I know that's a crazy thing to say it's a damn nightclub or something.But, I mean, shit, but it's like.They got a bouncer up front?You know, you see kids playing on trampolinesYou see kids being kids
01:29:31YeahYou see fathers kind ofYou know, salkinTrying to figure out like what to doYou see mothers kind of just hiding in their tentsTrying to take care of the little onesYou see grandpa's kind of likeHanging out with other grandpas
01:29:46You see what you would expect a normal life to beAnd that's what it isThese people are normal civilians just living their life manRightYou see donkey cars.moving around. You know, everyone cooks here with firewood, right? There's no electricity. Sothey get the wood through old furniture. And so they're burning old furniture as their firewood.Dude, the toxic fumes here are unreal. These people are going to have chronic diseases for
01:30:10the rest of the life. Cancer is going to develop in like 15 years from stuff that, you know,they're burning. I mean, it's every kind of, you know, we actually smell the thermite after thesebombs. I don't know what health effects that has on people. I just, I fear what's going to happen innext generation like we're going to see some not only psychological diseasespsychiatric diseases but also literally physical diseases that's going to come aboutso this is right there one of the larger tents and they kind of use it as a schooland so all the children are here and they're singing they're trying to live a normal life manthese are the kids there and so I went here and I asked the principal hey do you mind if I record
01:30:47him from the US dude when I told him I'm from the US he's like please record it and share itwith people you know and that's what they want they want people to seethey're human right and um yeah so i i uh started recording this and i you'll notice i abruptly cutit off because i just couldn't handle it oh it's cuteDude, I brokeJust kids having a good time, huh?Yeah, I broke down like a baby.Really?
01:31:29I just couldn't handle that.Why?Because it's just such a contrary day.Like, what was some of the feelings you were having?Dude, you see all the kids being destroyed in the trauma bayand you realize that's the people that are being bombed.Like, that's the people that 60,000 dead and 50% are women and children.Like, that doesn't make sense, man.
01:31:49Yeah.I have kids at home, that age.Yeah.And to see them trying to.to enjoy life in the settingof bombs going off in the backgroundand quadcopters and dronesand tanks. It's like
01:32:03they're just singing. They're just kids, man. They're justnormal human beings thatlook different, that talk differentandsomehow they're thetargets. Yeah.It hurts.Yeah. I mean, the fact that
01:32:19like, I don't know,I just feel like nothing is making sensesome days. But yeah,kids should not have to feel that way.I mean, I'll say for the third time,because I can't thank you enough.Just keep talking, man.And I'm not saying make this the reason for your podcast,
01:32:35but you know, just here and there,if, you know, someone that's willing to talk aboutwhat's going on over there.Yeah, come for the humor.Stay for the genocide, you know?I think that's, I'm just joking,but it's like, you got, look,I learn from police officers in moments of trauma.
01:32:50Sometimes you have to step outside and laugh, you know?That's right.You have to step outside and laugh.And to your point, the Gossans laugh, they smile, they have a good time, they know their situation is hell.It's just terrible, right?But they somehow find humanity within themselves and around them enough to enjoy whatever life they have left.So props to you for laughing because you need to, we're human at the end of the day.We can only handle so much stress and trauma, right?
01:33:18And I do want to say that is like, I mean, right now I'm in a space where I do work for myself pretty much or for our listeners, you know.and so yeah i think i don't think there's any real like kudos to me i mean some of those thoughtsare nice but i'm in a i'm in a position where i can kind of speak up and you're in a positionwhere you can say just what you saw or what you heard and it's really just what i feel it's likei don't fucking know i know these a lot of these countries have been at war forever i know thatlike the middle east has always been you know this like behind the veil like shaking this handand a knife behind the back and you know it's always had this mysterious like knives andCasablanca type of vibes, you know, but, um, but I, I don't know.
01:33:58I just, you see a bunch of kids like, fucking, you know, playing hide and go seek forever.And it's fucking scary.You're like, what is this?You know?Wow.So you're like, well, I'm going to speak up to about this a little because I don't want it on my doorstep.I, you know, and who know, fucking who knows?You don't know what the devil has playing, brother.
01:34:20You know?And they say the devil will come and he'll, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll, you'll,You'll think he's a nice guy.That's a thing.You know, he doesn't show up in his shirt that's like, hey, I'm the devil, you know?That's right.He shows up in something pretty decent.And you're like, all right, this guy seems pretty decent.
01:34:38You know, his wife makes a nice casserole or whatever.Do you think you had a positive effect there?And would you do something different if you could go again?Absolutely had a positive effect.The amount of friends, the amount of doctors.that just were so happy to see us there, to see the camaraderie,the medical friendship that we have made there is endless.And I keep in touch with them every day.
01:35:03Every day I wake up and say, hey, how are you doing?And, you know, it's negative.But I say just keep praying of God.You know, there's going to come a day where you're going to be smiling and being happywith what's theirs if it's in this life or the next.So, you know, I'm going to keep trying to do everything I can.I'm going to try to go back.I want to meet them again.
01:35:22I want to meet that kid I'm here again.I don't know where he is, but I hope I see him again.Yeah. Amen, man.Yeah.Yeah, even as thinking about his smile, that is exciting, you know.You got to witness this firsthand.Did it alter your kind of view of humanity?What was that like?
01:35:41What has that kind of been like after a little time has passed here?Because you've been home for a month.Yeah, so I came home and, you know, seeing all these stories of these children and womenand my kids come up to meand they're like,Bob, can we play video games?Can we play Mario Kart?I was like, man, how do I,
01:35:59how do I go back to reality, you know?Because it really was a different world out there, man.It really was.And just like going back to workand just having to deal with a patientthat's complaining that maybe I'm a little bit lateor...Here I'm fat or whatever.
01:36:15Yeah, like, dude, who isn't fat?You know?I don't know 78 people that aren't fat.Yeah, there you go.Or just like not.not being comfortable enough on the tablebecause we didn't provide enough pain medications.You know, legitimate, legitimate concerns
01:36:27that any human should be able to convey.But just coming back to that, man,I just felt so grateful for everything that we had.And I think that's the sensation that the feeling I have right now,just so much gratitude for the life that we live, you know.And at the same time, a little bit of guilt, too.Like when I eat meat now, I'm like, dang, dude.I wish I can give this to my friends back I made in Gaza.
01:36:49The doctors I worked with, the nurses that I worked with,the medical students I worked with.Like, I wish I could give this to them, you know?And that's how I feel now.And I eat less, you know?Yeah.I do.I just can't get myself to eat three meals a day.
01:37:03I mean, I find myself to eat like one meal a day now.Yeah.I mean, you've talked about, like, talking to world leaders and stuff like that.What message would you communicate to world leaders,having been there and having offered aid there?I think some of the world leaders are actually waking up.Canada, France, Spain.They're all willing to recognize a Palestinian state, which, you know, should be obvious.
01:37:26I mean, I don't know why Trump can't recognize that humans require dignity and honor and food and water.So I really wish.I feel like Trump has it in him.He just, he needs to be convinced by the right group of people.And I feel like doctors are decent people.That's why I wish I could communicate.this with them. That said, I think, you know, the UN is the perfect organization to do something.The Security Council has convened about five times about a permanent ceasefire and they have
01:38:05the military capability of doing something imposing that ceasefire. And all five times the U.S.has basically said no. Every other country has said yes. So it's really the U.S. I mean, it really isthe U.S. that's preventing the U.N. from doing their job.Prior to this, in early June 2025, the U.N. Security Council attempted to pass a similarresolution for a permanent ceasefire on Gaza, but it was vetoed by the United States, despite14 out of 15 council members voting in favor. So we're the ones holding it up.Oh, yeah.Man, that's unreal.
01:38:39And that's binding. So that's binding on every country that's part of the U.N. has to abideby that. So if America approved that, it would be a game changer.The U.S. opposition to this resolution should come as no surprise. It is unacceptable forwhat it does say. It is unacceptable for what it does not say. And it is unacceptable for themanner in which it has been advanced. The United States has been clear. We would not supportany measure that fails to condemn Hamas and does not call for Hamas to disarm and leaveGaza. This resolution would undermine diplomatic efforts to reach a ceasefire that reflects therealities on the ground and emboldens Hamas. This resolution also draws false equivalence
01:39:34between Israel and Hamas, which is both wrong and dangerous. There you go. Well, and I don't knowwith the specifics of that resolution were either.But the fact that 14 countries...We're talking about the 14 biggest countries, by the way.We're not talking about, like, Martino.Yeah, or Myanmar or whatever.And shout out to the Myanmar's out there.Or Mayan Mus, I don't want to freaking go hard R on them.
01:40:05Dr. Rahman, thank you so much for coming on, man.I appreciate it.Well, I appreciate you bringing me here and giving me an opportunity to talk.Yeah, man, I really have to shout out to you for being brave about this and talking about this.This is obviously difficult to hear these stories, and it's not normal to hear that brains are coming out of people's heads and being shot in the head so routinely.But it is what it is.We saw it, and I would like to share it.And I apologize to the audience if this was too gruesome or grotesque, but it is what it is.
01:40:36Yeah, I think that's the truth, man.This is where we are, you know.well thank you so much again brother and travel safe back to milwaukee and uh yeah just keeppraying man absolutely never stop never will stop now i'm just floating on the breeze and i feeli'm falling like these leaves i must be cornerstone oh but when i reach that ground i'll sharethis piece of mind i found i can seeit in my bones but it's gonna take it.
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