Timesuck with Dan Cummins - 456 - The Staircase Murders

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

Did you ever watch the Staircase docu-series on Netflix? Or the 2022 HBO MAX adaptation? I watched both, and still wanted to learn more about the divisive trial over the murder of Kathleen Peterson. Did her husband Michael kill her? Or was he railroaded by a justice system that held a grudge against him? Or, did Michael kill not only Kathleen, but also a woman in Germany years earlier? And did he have anything to do with the recent death of his first wife? Merch and more: www.badmagicproductions.com Timesuck Discord! https://discord.gg/tqzH89vWant to join the Cult of the Curious PrivateFacebook Group? Go directly to Facebook and search for "Cult of the Curious" to locate whatever happens to be our most current page :)For all merch-related questions/problems: [e-mail] (copy and paste)Please rate and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and elsewhere and follow the suck on social media!! @timesuckpodcast on IG and http://www.facebook.com/timesuckpodcastWanna become a Space Lizard? Click here: https://www.patreon.com/timesuckpodcast.Sign up through Patreon, and for $5 a month, you get access to the entire Secret Suck catalog (295 episodes) PLUS the entire catalog of Timesuck, AD FREE. You'll also get 20% off of all regular Timesuck merch PLUS access to exclusive Space Lizard merch.

It's always the husband. It's something I've often heard in movies, TV shows, even in real criminal investigations regarding a married woman's murder. Police typically consider those closest to the murder victim to be the primary suspects because statistically, when it comes to FBI statistics regarding solved homicides at least, you actually are more likely to be killed by somebody you know. A family member, a friend, an acquaintance, a neighbor, a co-worker, etc. Then you are to be killed by a complete and total stranger.

And spouses tend to have an obvious motive more often than strangers do when it comes to homicides, like a huge life insurance money payout. And frequently when law enforcement suspects that somebody has been killed by somebody close to them like their husband, their hunch is correct. But what if that hunch is correct. But what if that hunch is not backed up by a lot of obviously damning forensic or physical evidence that clearly points to the husband? What if the murder weapon can't even actually be found or even conclusively determined? What if the evidence is largely circumstantial, but there's so damn much circumstantial evidence? Should you, if you're on the jury, still convict the husband if the prosecution actually can't quite prove,

not beyond a reasonable doubt based on the available evidence, that the husband actually is the murderer, even if the circumstantial evidence leads you to think, Oh, come on! This dude had to have killed her! He's gotta be guilty! When it comes to the divisive case of Michael Peterson murdering his wife Kathleen Peterson, a case thoroughly covered in the very popular French docu-series The Staircase that finally made it to Netflix in 2018, after already having aired on numerous other channels, especially in Europe, for many years in some form, I think if I'm being honest that I would decide that the husband was guilty. At least in this case, even if I wasn't technically supposed to. I know, I know. I watched the Staircase docu-series back when it came out and I was riveted. Then I watched the

2022 mini-series, also called The Staircase, based on the docu-series of the same name, starring two incredible actors, Colin Furze and Tony Collette, and I was riveted all over again. And now, years later, I decided to dive back in and was more intrigued than ever. This case has been examined a lot and it continues to be because it is fascinating and some of the players involved are still alive and still making new comments every once in a while. It's very divisive. There's still active subreddits full of people convinced that Michael did it and also subreddits full of people convinced that he is either innocent or at the very least that the state did not prove he was guilty. What do you think? What will you think about this case by the

time I'm done? Late one evening in December of 2001, author Michael Peterson found his wife Kathleen dead at the bottom of their staircase. After a late night of drinking at home, Kathleen had said goodnight to her husband and left him by the pool, or so Michael claimed. Michael said he came inside some time later and discovered the gruesome death scene. The staircase, covered in blood. Kathleen had suffered multiple severe lacerations to the back of her head and had also fallen down the stairs or maybe was pushed. Had

somebody broken into their home and did that? Michael claimed that his wife's death was likely a tragic accident. That she had had too much to drink and simply fallen down the stairs. But was that the truth? Michael would be accused of beating his wife with an unidentified object, most likely a fireplace blow poke, and then leaving her body on the staircase where he had attacked her after they'd had a heated argument that broke out after Kathleen had discovered evidence that her husband was both bisexual and unfaithful, that he had been communicating with and presumably sleeping with male escorts. It didn't look good. Still doesn't look good. And it especially doesn't look good when you find out that Kathleen was not the first woman linked to Michael who had been found dead

at the bottom of a weirdly bloody staircase. Two women found dead at the bottom of two very bloody staircases. Two women who Michael had been the last person to see alive. Two women whose deaths he stood to gain from financially. And yet, Michael Peterson is a free man. But should he be? Did he murder not one but two different women in eerily similar ways? This week we'll explore one of the most controversial cases in modern true crime history, analyze the evidence, hear the arguments on both sides, and decide

if Michael Peterson is either the most unlucky man in history when it comes to losing women he cares about to nasty, fatal, falls-down flights of bloody stares, or is he a cold-blooded killer who isn't above murdering anyone, even the supposed love of his life, if her death will keep him from financial ruin. All that and more right here, right now, on this true crime, sensationalist trial, did Michael do it, did an owl do it, did lightning strike twice,

and he just happened to be with two different women shortly before they took tragic and exceptionally bloody falls down the stairs edition of Time Suck. This is Michael McDonald, and you're listening to Time Suck. This is Michael McDonald and you're listening to Time Suck. Well happy Monday and welcome and welcome back to the Cult of the Curious. I'm Dan Cummins, the master sucker, curious old fella, La Luz Del Mundo, investigator, big kid who wishes he had at least one box for those sweet sweet dinosaur bones. Dinosaur bones, yeah we want to see them. Dinosaur bones, yeah where can we see them, dinosaur bones. Yeah, where can we see them?

And you are listening to Time Suck. Hail Nimrod, hail Lusifina, praise be to good boy Bojangles, and glory be to triple M, Michael motherfucking McDonald's songbird. No announcements today. Other than, you know what? You're great. You're fun. You're interesting. You like to have a good time, and you like to get lost in a good story. And I love that about you. So here we go. No introduction really needed for today's episode. We'll dive directly into a timeline of Michael Peterson's early life, his marriages, the tragedy that resulted in him adopting two young daughters, two sisters, the entire criminal case against him from beginning to end. After digging into this case for the third

time in the past seven years, I do think this guy for sure killed two women. Curious if you'll feel the same. And maybe three actually. Well, two, I think he killed two for sure. And I think, as you'll see at the very end, I just found this out like literally like in the last hour. I think he killed two for sure and I think as you'll see the very end I just found this out like literally like in the last hour. I think he also at least let a third woman die Yeah, again curious if you'll feel the same I imagine some of you won't Michael continues as I mentioned earlier to have a lot of supporters Sadly, while I think this story is fascinating with its twists and turns It doesn't seem to include even one single instance of anyone finding a sweet sweet dinosaur bones I won't keep playing that. I just I just had just a little bit more there. I just needed a little bit more Okay, let's get into that timeline

Shrap on those boots soldier. We're marching down a time suck timeline. Michael Iver Peterson. Kind of a dick name. Was born in Nashville, Tennessee, October 23rd, 1943. He was the firstborn child of an army officer named Eugene Peterson and Homemaker Eleanor Bartolino. The two had married less than a year earlier in Reno, Nevada Monta Dramica was born his dad was shipped overseas during World War two after enlisting in the army He'd land on the beaches in northern France a mere eight days after D-Day Eleanor moved in with her sisters staying with them until the war ended in 1945 At that point Eugene reenlisted and he'd go on to serve in the army for a full 30 years. Following the war Eugene was stationed in Japan where Michael would spend some of his early

childhood years. After briefly returning to Washington state in 1947 where Michael's younger brother Bill was born the family returned to Japan. Michael's second younger brother, Jack, would be born in 1951, then his sister and last sibling Anne Ellen, born in 1953. The Petersons, while Michael was growing up, would live all over the place. They'd spend time on or near bases in Japan, Washington, Denmark, Georgia, California, Virginia, Kansas, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina.

True a military brat lifestyle. Mike Sylvins will later recall that during all this bouncing around from place to place, he was a good protective older brother. And we don't know much more than that about his childhood. Years later, while Mike's two brothers will stand by him during his murder trial and profess his innocence, Anne Ellen, while at first she stood by him, once presented with the prosecution's evidence combined with reflections on Mike's explosive temper and dismissive and sometimes

controlling attitudes towards women that she had both witnessed and experienced over the course of her life, she will come to believe that Mike is indeed a murderer, that he did kill his wife and probably killed another woman you will soon meet as well. Her family will ostracize her for that belief. Her brother Bill, interestingly, will allegedly ask, what's your point when she asked him, but what if he did it? Interesting.

Back to Mike's younger years. Now he graduated from Hampton High School in Virginia, 1961. He then enrolled in Duke University, where he would go on to graduate with a degree in political science in 1965. While at Duke, Mike became the president of the Sigma Nu fraternity. He was the editor of The Chronicle, their daily student newspaper during his senior year from 1964 to 1965.

He attended classes at the law school of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Some of his professors said he showed real promise as a writer and a journalist and seemed to be a naturally gifted storyteller. 1966, Mike was able to get a civilian job with the US Department of Defense where he was assigned to research arguments supporting increased military involvement in Vietnam. An interesting job considering that by the time the war was over he would then be very against US involvement in Vietnam. Two years after taking that job when he was all about it, Michael followed his father's footsteps in the military. He enlisted.

He was commissioned as a second lieutenant in the Marines and he would serve in Vietnam from August 24th 1968 to September 5th 1969. And what did he do while he was in Vietnam? Well that will become a matter of debate. Decades later when reporters in North Carolina thinking that he was full of shit to some degree when he ran for the office of mayor of Durham in 1999 caught him in a pretty big lie. Let's take a bit of a side road to explore that lie since it does speak to his character and you know what kind of things he's capable of hiding. since it does speak to his character and you know what kind of things he's capable of hiding.

Micah would say in a 2017 interview that he quote, wanted to seek combat when he'd enlisted for Vietnam. Dreaming of becoming a famous author, he said, I wanted to write the great American war novel. And he would arrive in Vietnam as a cocky and gung-ho dude, itching for a firefight according to other Marines who remembered serving with him. He was assigned to the first amphibiousactor Battalion and was sent to their headquarters at the mouth of the Qua Viet River on the Gulf of Tonkin to lead troops in combat. Big lumbering amphibious vehicle tracked aka Amtrax had traditionally delivered

troops from ship to shore but there in Vietnam they would become patrol vehicles and the Marines who would ride them would call themselves AM grunts. And north of the Qua Viet was a smaller base, C4, and north of that an even smaller outpost called Oceanview, the northernmost military post in South Vietnam in 1968. And Oceanview was a little more than about 30 dudes dug into a field of sand dunes surrounded by concertina wire, along with an Amtrak platoon, that's why I mentioned what that was. It had an army team that operated twin 40 millimeter machine guns known as dusters, a mortar crew, and some Navy spotters who called in missile strikes from a nearby battleship.

By the middle of 1968, the North Vietnamese Army, called the NVA, had shifted much of its attention to resting control of this region below the demilitarized zone that separated North and South Vietnam. Oceanview had its own devils for those who were there. According to Richard Lennon of Seattle, nice to already sneak in a definite dick, just really in the suck, this dick is a retired Marine captain who was there, though not with Peterson's unit. retired Marine captain who was there though not with Peterson's unit. He added, you knew you were closest the closest thing to the DMZ and if the NVA wanted to pick a serious fight they could overrun the place in a heartbeat. In February of 1969 the battalion was having a growing problem with so-called sappers, North Vietnamese soldiers who would slip inside American bases with

explosives. On February 21st according to the official log of the unit's activities, Peterson's unit, Marines distributed toys to nearby villagers in celebration of the Tet holiday, the Vietnamese New Year. That evening the village was glowing with candlelight and kerosene lamps with one Marine patrol greeted warmly with cookies, one Amtrakr would later recall. But then on the night of February 22nd the US positions across South Vietnam were attacked by the North Vietnamese in what became the second Tet Offensive. At Oceanview the fighting started about 11

p.m. ended roughly six hours later before it began Peterson the ranking officer at Oceanview sent a small patrol into the darkness to search for some sappers. Amongst them was Peterson's radio operator, Lance Corporal Jack Peterson, no relation, a 19-year-old from Wisconsin. Leo Hazelton, a corporal at the time, recalled to the Marines, suspected the North Vietnamese were gathering for an attack. He said, we kind of knew something was happening because in our area you could always smell them burning their weed before they hit us. And weed is in a marriage of one of their. Sure enough as the patrol moved into position the outpost spotted NVA troops through one of the starlight scopes.

These night vision telescopes. Peterson from his command bunker in a big sand dune known as the hill got on the radio told the patrol to sit tight. Then ground radar began picking up enemy movement in increasingly large groups. So Peterson told the patrol to begin moving back towards the outpost, then order them to stop about 100 meters from the wire. I told him at this time to sit down because I was not absolutely convinced there were that many people out there, Peterson said in a taped interview recorded by the Marines

days after this happened. And he added, I felt as long as the patrol was this close, I would be able to move them in without any problem. But then suddenly Marine on the starlight scope yelled out, Lieutenant, they're moving towards us. Peterson now ran to the starlight scope and through the green tinted lens he saw about 25 enemy soldiers descending on Oceanview. He then ran back to his bunker, radioed the patrol to return immediately.

He said in his debriefing days later, I said literally run now as fast as you can run back to the wire. They jumped up and ran. As soon as they did, a huge enemy force started to chase after them. Sergeant Bill Henley was also on a starlight scope and began yelling to Peterson that the enemy was practically at the edge of the wire, which is like the perimeter. Hazelton recalled it vividly, stating that patrol came running back in and they, the NBA, were right on their heels. That's when it all blew up and went goofy,

and it went till daylight. And now here is where Peterson's claims start to deviate from the truth. He said in 2018, I told everybody on the line to hold their fire. I said we had a patrol coming in and not to fire until I gave the order. That was acknowledged by every post the tank and the duster crew. Peterson also said in that same interview that the

duster crew man in the tank with twin machine guns panicked and that the open fire as the patrol reached the wire perimeter despite him giving no order to do that. But in the interview taped right after the battle happened Peterson said the duster crew opened fire on his orders. After he had been told the patrol had radioed that it was safely inside the wire and after someone on the starlight scope confirmed it. The Duster fire hit the patrol, sadly killing two Marines and wounding two others with friendly fire that's never so friendly. Peterson stopped all the firing long enough to have the wounded Marines pulled back to the command post, even as the NVA drew friendly. Peterson stopped all the firing long enough to have the wounded Marines pulled back to the command post.

Even as the NVA drew closer, Peterson said that Corporal Peterson, his radio operator, then died in his arms after stepping on a landmine during all this chaos, his last words being, I hurt, Lieutenant, I hurt. Words that Peterson will later write for one of his characters in one of his books. Peterson claimed he was hurt as well, that he was tore up with shrapnel from the same landmine explosion.

But that's not true. For decades Peterson lied, claiming that he was badly injured in Vietnam in battle when his radio operator stepped on a landmine and was killed and that was how he earned one of his Purple Hearts. He lied further claiming he had earned a second Purple Heart in another firefight when he had gotten shot, but he wasn't shot. In 1999, when Peterson was running for Mayor of Durham, the Raleigh News and Observer reported that there was zero documentation of any Purple Hearts in Peterson's military record. And when confronted with that information, now Peterson, all these years later, admits that

he has lied. He said he'd actually been injured in a traffic accident on base in Japan after he had left Vietnam. So why did he lie? Peterson said he had lied all those years because the memory of what had really happened was simply too painful to talk about. The whole friendly fire issued at his order. Accidentally getting two men killed, too much for him to bear. issued at his order, accidentally getting two men killed, too much for him to bear. But wouldn't the easiest way to not talk about that be actually to not talk about it? Just don't mention it ever, as opposed to bringing it up and then claiming you were more heroic than you really were. Just don't say you ever got a Purple

Heart. There's no reason to ever need to talk about that. Also how does that answer explain his second Purple Heart lie? Well it definitely doesn't. Extra weird to me that he lied about his service record because he did actually see action in Vietnam and he was at least somewhat heroic. I mean he was awarded a Silver Star and he was awarded a Bronze Star Medal with Valor for actions in combat or actions excuse me in Vietnam. He didn't only give the order that accidentally got two Marines shot and killed. He also gave other orders that allegedly saved men's lives. Why not just focus only on that? Major Ron Smaldone, who fought with him that night, said, quote,

That evening he demonstrated he had what it takes when he's under heat. It's as close as you can come to circumstances of life and death right before your eyes. You have to stay in control and that's what Michael did. So why couldn't he just tell the truth? Why wasn't that enough for him? And how unethical was the lie he told? Never having served in the military, I can't exactly say. I mean it sure doesn't seem like it was on the same level as the kind of stolen valor when somebody who is never fighting in a war at all or Or never even in the military claims military heroism

But it still strikes me is definitely fucked up and just odd again. Why why lie? He didn't need to he really did fight He really did fight valiantly according to Marines that served with him But he seems to have wanted to make his time in the service seem even more dramatic than it was. And I think that's an interesting insight into his character. He's clearly not above telling a big lie and sticking to it until confronted with, you know, overwhelming evidence that he had not actually told the truth. And even then he made up a weird excuse about, you know, why he lied. Well, Mike was honorably discharged in 1971 after he got into that car accident. The car accident, by the way, was a brutal one. He was driving a sergeant back to the base one night when a civilian car veered

out of their lane. Well, some sources say he was on base, some sources say he was coming back from base or coming back to base. Anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter for this story. Either on base or very near base. And this civilian car veered out of their lane, hit them head on at a railroad crossing. The sergeant then died from his injuries, and Michael suffered rib fractures, a punctured lung and a serious injury to his right leg. He would wake up later in the ICU and he would recall, quote, it was without a doubt the

worst thing that I'd ever gone through in my life. After he returned to the US, Mike was honorably discharged with a permanent medical disability for those injuries. Backing up a bit now, in 1966, before Mike left for Vietnam, he did get married to Patricia Peterson, his first wife, who went by the nickname of Patty. Patty earned her undergraduate degree from UT Austin down in Texas. Then she attended grad school at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, right down the road from Duke.

Duke would be where Mike would first touch her vagina. And he would like it. He would find it, quote, satisfactory. And Duke would be where Patty would first touch Mike's penis. She would find it, quote, adequate in length, a bit skinny, but symmetrical, pleasing to the eye, with a pleasant odor reminiscent of a patch of Dewey moss on a rock one might find on a beach during a cool New England spring morn. I don't know what they thought about each other, Gentles. I'm just being a bit of a silly ding-dong.

While Mike was serving in Vietnam, Patty had moved to Germany to teach. And then Mike will join her there after his discharge in 71, where he will then work on some book ideas. He'll do this for years and years. Mike and Patty will have two sons together Clayton and Todd both born in Germany. Clayton will be born there in 1974, Todd born in 1976. Their mom Patty taught at an elementary school on the Rheinmann Air Force or airbase in Grafenhausen, West Germany. Michael it seems did not work his first few years in Germany, not traditionally. He worked on his writing, but he didn't get paid for that. However, the injury he had suffered in that car accident in Japan qualified him for monthly medical disability payments, and the young couple were able to live on that money plus Patty's teaching income. And I don't know why I said he for the first few years in Germany. I don't think he uh,

I don't think he had any kind of like regular job ever in Germany. Uh, he might have though been doing some other shady shit to make extra coin more on that in a bit. 1972 the couple would move back to North Carolina for a year. Patty will get a teaching job in the States. Mike will use the GI Bill to cover the cost of going back to school at Duke while he continued to work on his novel projects. Then the couple would soon return to Germany again where Patty will again teach on bass in time for Clayton. Summer Peterson to be born there as I mentioned 1974 it was December 13th and Todd will actually be born March 14th. I guess I didn't give the exact date of 1976 and these two will do a lot of

moving back and forth well I guess four now. But this couple, Patty and Mike, do a lot of moving back and forth between Germany, I guess four now. But this couple, Patty and Mike, do a lot of moving back and forth between Germany and North Carolina over the following two decades. When the boys were little, no one spent more time with them than their dad Michael. He took on the role of house husband, did most of the cooking and cleaning and child rearing while Patty taught at school. Seems like that a pretty nice life. Boys would love their dad dearly. They would do a lot of traveling with the family around Europe. Summer vacations in the Azores the Italian Alps Venice Italy

Thanksgivings in Copenhagen Christmases in Nuremberg Peterson's continued living in Germany for the most part when they weren't back in North Carolina until the late 80s and While they were in Germany, they befriended a couple named George and Elizabeth Ratliff. Liz had taken a job in Germany with the U.S. Department of Defense to work as a teacher, just like Patty had previously. She had gotten a teaching position in large part because she was fluent in both French and German. And Liz and Patty worked at the same school and became very close, very good friends. Liz would write to her family back in the States to send

hand-me-downs for Patty's boys. Patty would be the maid of honor in Liz's marriage when she married George, an Air Force captain whom she had met at an officer's club. Mike and George would bond over their military experiences. The foursome would all become very close. George and Liz will have two daughters who will eventually become Mike and Patty's daughters. Margaret Elizabeth, born December 10th, 1981, and Martha Cattelan, born January 3rd, 1983. Before we find out how Mike will become these girls' adopted dad, let's explore an incident that will reveal more insight into Mike's character that occurred in 1983. That year he got caught stealing money from a family friend, a woman named Pat Finn, who was his son Todd's godmother. Patty had met Pat during her first

teaching assignment in Germany for the Department of Defense. Pat also worked in the school system over there and the two women became really close, just like she and Liz. And in May of 83, Mike and Patty paid a visit to Pat and her husband Joseph, who were at that time living in Berlin. And Mike took the opportunity to steal Pat Finn's ATM card, her fucking debit card. And then now he needed her PIN number to access her money. So while Pat's taking a shower, Mike creeps into her bedroom, rummages through her drawers in search of her personal code and finds it. And over the following four days, he withdraws the maximum each day for a total of a thousand dollars.

The Finns then went back to the States for a summer vacation after that visit. And all the mail addressed to them in Germany was held until their return. Meanwhile, they received a letter at their US address from Michael. He claimed in his letter that their babysitter, who had watched his kids at the Finns house had stolen money from his wallet. That motherfucker. Not only did he steal cash from a close family friend, he tried to pin it on an innocent young babysitter. That's pretty fucking slimy.

And he's not doing that as a troubled teen. He's 39 years old when he does this. Just a few months from turning 40. And he's getting monthly disability checks from the Marines. His wife has a steady job. They have income. This is strange to me. Pat thought Mike's babysitter accusation was absurd. She knew this girl very well and she didn't believe it for a second. And she immediately wondered why the fuck is Mike making that accusation? What's he hiding? This girl is the daughter of the vice principal to school where Pat

teaches. Well upon her return to Germany she will realize why he did that. Pat will find a statement from her bank and noted that the balance was off by $1,000. She assumed the bank had made an error, went to the office, straightened it all out. Now they revealed to her the four $250 drafts made in May on four consecutive days. Pat adamantly insists that was not me. I hadn't used that card. Well someone had used it for sure, the bank informed her. you know, four consecutive days. Pat adamantly insists that was not me. I hadn't used that card. Well, someone had used it for sure, the bank informed her. Then she realized that the dates of the transactions corresponded exactly with the time that Patty and Mike were visiting them. And she has this aha moment. She feels sick to her stomach because she had already thought it

was weird that on every previous visit when Mike and Patty had stayed with her, something had gone missing from her home. Never anything of value. A paperback book here, small trinket there, and she didn't want to suspect her friends. She'd even overlooked the time that some German marks disappeared from her purse when she visited the Petersons in Durham, North Carolina. Wasn't a significant amount, not anything she could prove, but now now there's's this. $1,000 have been taken. Combined with Mike's bullshit accusation against the babysitter, she wonders how long has Mike been stealing from her? On the advice of her bankers, Pat now tells Mike that since her card was stolen and he had also lost money, you know the

babysitter stole from him, there was gonna be a very thorough investigation of this theft by the police. And now Mike, realizing the police are going to be involved, gets nervous, he admits what he did, and he agrees to pay her back. He also begs her not to tell his wife, Patty. And again, what a fucking stupid, shitty thing to do. To steal from close friends, to steal from your fucking kid's godmother, and to do it over and over again. Well, at first, Pat stays quiet about it. But then one day, Patty calls Pat and says, hey, we haven't seen you a little while

we'd like to come visit. And now Pat says to her, Patty, you are always welcome in my home, but when you come please leave your husband and children at home. That's awkward. When Patty of course asks, what? What is this all about? Pat tells her you need to talk to your husband. After that, Pat would not hear you need to talk to your husband. After that, Pat would not hear from Patty for a long, long time. She received a payment from Michael, then another payment from Patty, who now knows,

but they never paid the full amount. More than the money though, Pat was of course stung by the betrayal. Right? And that's weird. Michael lied about receiving two Purple Hearts in Vietnam, then he steals from at least one of he and his wife's friends. It makes me wonder like who else is he steals from at least one of he and his wife's friends. It makes me wonder like who else is he stealing from around this time?

You know and if he wasn't above stealing from a very close friend, I have to think you know he would be comfortable stealing from strangers, stores, whatever if given the chance. Other friends of theirs interviewed decades later will claim that there was a running joke that Michael must secretly work for the CIA or some equivalent because it sure seemed like he and Patty were constantly living well outside of their means. Their friends were continually wondering how they could afford the types of vacations they took, how they could go to the restaurants they would frequently eat at, how they would pay for the nice clothes and jewelry they wore, etc. Another thing that happened in 1983 was Mike getting his first novel published. New American Library published The Immortal Dragon, a 527-page paperback under the Signet

imprint in July. Mike dedicated the book, set in 19th century France and Vietnam, to his wife Patty and his two sons, nine-year-old Clayton and seven-year-old Todd. The novel traced the love and lust of three generations against the backdrop of a power struggle between France and Vietnam Treachery abounded in the corrupt ruling court. The traders were bent on exploitation while priests labored to save heathen souls Sex very prominent in the book Mike wrote about a hot sex on a marriage night the rampant promiscuity of a sorceress character The homosexual dalliances of some powerful men the humiliation and degradation of various women, etc. Sex was the thread that bound

the book together. But while sex sells, didn't sell them that many copies of the Immortal Dragon. Never made any bestsellers lists, didn't change his family's life in any way, no agents, no publishers were banging on Mike's door asking for another book. Mike would, you know, publicly talk about how much money his future books would make. He doesn't make any mention of this book so I have to think it made little to no money. So while Michael Peterson's writing career was born with this book it would be seven long years before his next new book and his career didn't exactly you know take off at this moment. Now for one final big event from 1983. On a Saturday morning when his wife and kids were out of the house,

or at least when he thought they were all out of the house, Mike tragically slammed his dick in a door and severed it off. Nearly died from the blood loss. He had just gotten back home from a run where he had gotten very sweaty, took off all his clothes shortly after coming inside, thinking he had the whole house to himself. Then he hears his son Clayton call out for him. He wanted to sleep in apparently and now he runs for the bathroom. Mike tries to shut the door behind him. It doesn't shut it hard enough so he spins around as Clayton comes around the corner and then BAM! Just slams his

fucking door right on his dick. So now he's screaming in pain which causes his son Clayton to want to come into the bathroom to help his father. He's also naked. He had wet the bed the night before. He was doing laundry after taking off all his clothes and stripping the sheets and wanted his dad's help. So now he opens the door, sees his dad, then Michael, bam, slams the door again to try and keep his son from seeing such a horrible bloody sight. And in the process, he slams the door in his son's dick and severs it off as well. Two Peterson dicks slammed off in a span of, I don't know, 10 seconds. Now he calls for an ambulance, for two ambulances I guess, one for each Peterson, one for each dick. The EMTs are

able to find both their dicks and are able to reattach them at the hospital. But they put the wrong dick on each person. So now for the rest of his life Mike has a little kid dick and his son has a grown man dick and Some people think this is why he became a killer Over the ensuing years he became very sensitive about having a little kid dick and whenever any woman would mention it He would fly off the handle. He'd lose his mind and attack them That of course didn't happen But it really isn't that much more absurd than when Michael will claim his fucking owl, some owl killed his wife.

More on that story later, much later. For now, something big did happen in 1983. And I will share with you right after this week's first two Mitchell-sponsored breaks. Now let's find out what else happened in Michael Peterson's life in 1983. George Ratliff, the husband of Mike and Patty's friend Liz, died in his sleep while participating in Operation Urgent Fury,

the US invasion of Granada in 1983. It was suspected that he had died of a heart attack, but the autopsy didn't reveal that conclusively. He just went to sleep, didn't wake up, even though he was only 34 years old. Strange. But it can't happen. Liz remained in Grofenhausen with the girls and her friendship with the Petersons continued and deepened. Mike would quickly step in, basically immediately step in, offer to take over managing the finances for Liz, who was overwhelmed with grief, falling deeper and deeper into depression, and she had never dealt with the bills and such because George did that when they got married. Now it seems that the Fox may have been guarding the hen house. Many

will think that Mike is now stealing from a widow and the mother of two young girls. No proof of that, but a lot of speculation. Mike will for sure draft a new will for Liz and he will get that done almost immediately, which is just a bit suspicious considering what's gonna happen to her. The previous document she had, or she and George had, I guess, stipulated that should anything happen to both of them, George's parents would assume guardianship of their girls. And if they were unable to do so, then Patty and Michael would assume that responsibility.

But now Liz's new will stated, quote, I hereby nominate, constitute, and appoint Michael I and Patricia S. Peterson as guardians acting jointly or separately of each of my minor children until he or she reaches majority or is otherwise legally emancipated. And the will also, and this is huge, granted either Mike or Patty the authority to dispose of her property for the support and the education of the girls. Basically now if Liz dies, Mike and Patty get any and all money and other assets she has. In theory they're getting all that to help pay for raising her kids. But they also wouldn't have to spend the money on the kids. It would be very hard to take them to court for this. Not

impossible but difficult. Since these kids were actually close with their paternal grandparents, why was this will ever changed? Makes no sense to me. Apparently the grandparents are very stable, very good people, live in North Carolina. This is all very suspicious. Or actually, I don't know why I said North Carolina. The Petersons had relations in North Carolina. They live stateside.

But they had a good relationship. Jumping ahead to the fall of 1985 now. It's been nearly two years since George Ratliff has died. And finally, Liz's depression is seeming to be lifting. She's feeling better. She's starting to talk about leaving Germany. She wants to move back to the US where she can live by George's parents so her kids can bond with them and so she can have family to help in raising them.

She's looking better and better. Her mood is lifting more and more. She's starting to seem like she did before George had died. But then out of nowhere she dies and all of her possessions and custody of her kids fall to Mike and Patty Peterson. On the morning of Monday November 25th 1985 43 year old Elizabeth Ratliff was found dead in her home by her nanny Barbara who discovered her body at the bottom of a blood spattered staircase or splattered, I guess,

an apparently very, very bloody staircase. Liz's death was controversially declared natural. Her autopsy, her first one anyway, was done quickly, and just a real basic one, found that she had died of an intra-cerebral hemorrhage caused by a pre-existing blood clotting disorder known as Willebrand disease. The coroner ruled that a hemorrhage had caused Elizabeth to collapse, that she had then fallen down

the stairs, hit her head which explained the amount of blood of the scene. But did it explain all the blood? So many other people think fuck no, didn't. Micah was the last person known to have seen Liz alive, but he is not suspected of any wrongdoing at this time, but he should have been. The night before her dead body was found at around 10 p.m. Liz's next-door neighbor, a woman named Corinne Hamm, looked out her window in time to see Michael Peterson dressed in light-colored tennis shoes, dark blue jeans, and a light-hued cardigan emerging from Liz's home looking guilty as fuck. She said he jumped down the three steps

from the door, literally started to run away from her house. He looked back over his shoulder in Corinne's direction at one point, stuck both his hands in his front pockets of his jeans now, and kept moving his head down at a quick pace. Again with that hoodie on. Hood pulled down, you know, kind of over his face. What the fuck? Unfortunately, Corinne will not be questioned by investigators because no one will really investigate Liz's death at this time. And Michael will only state that he had seen Liz hours before Corinne saw him running away. Did Liz maybe find out that Mike was stealing from her? Did he find out that she's about to move back to the US and that she wanted to change her will

and was gonna cut him out of it? Patty, Mike, and others would arrive at Liz's home before any medical examiners did, after the nanny Barbara called them. And Mike will take charge of speaking with the examiners. Was he just being helpful there? Or was he trying to steer them away from any suspicion? Mike would tell Barbara and others present that the medical team felt that Barbara had a cerebral hemorrhage, fell down the stairs.

Barbara didn't buy this at all. She was outraged when she heard that actually, would try to get German authorities to look into the death as a homicide, but they would not, not at that time. She was not alone in her suspicions. Several who saw the bloody stairwell allegedly did not buy this. They all felt that somebody must have hit Liz with something at the top of the stairs because why else would there be so much fucking blood?

Why would it be splattered high up on the wall near the top of the stairs? That didn't make sense if she'd had a hemorrhage and then fallen down the stairs. It's not like her fucking head exploded. But rather than wait for investigators to conduct any blood splatter analysis right after this happens, another couple who were also friends with Liz, who were worried about Liz's young daughter seeing their mom's blood on the stairs and surrounding walls, well they got out buckets, soap, and sponges and carefully cleaned it all up, washing away a lot of possible evidence in the process. Mike did not help with the cleaning, but he did work with authorities in directing getting Liz's body taken out of the house.

When Pat Finn heard about Liz's death, the woman whom Michael had stolen from, she immediately assumed that Mike had killed her. She remembered how Mike used to speak about Liz. How he was always talking about her, complaining about her, seemed almost obsessed with her. Pat called the criminal investigation of the military police, but they already considered Liz's case closed. She died of a brain hemorrhage. No need to look any further. Mike is not even questioned.

Then soon after Liz died, Mike and Patty will adopt Margaret and Martha. Margaret turning four, Martha about to turn three, and we will revisit their mother's death later in the timeline when she receives a proper autopsy that does point definitely to murder. Around the time of Liz's death Mike and Patty start having marital problems. Some think they were having marital problems because old Mike was having an affair with Liz before she died. They moved back to the U.S. in 1986 with all four kids now returning once more to Durham, North Carolina. 1986 also the year that Mike met his future wife Kathleen. And this is a good spot for us to briefly meet her as well. Kathleen Hunt Atwater,

soon to be Kathleen Hunt Atwater or I guess Kathleen Hunt Peterson. Born February 21st 1953 in Greensboro, North Carolina. She was born as Kevin Hunt at water. But when she was four years old she slammed her dick in a door and severed it. Doctors not able to reattach it because well cuz her dog ate it. Okay. Rather than try and attach new dick doctors thought it would be easier to build a vagina. A front butt if you will. And she became Kathleen. Everyone listening knows that's bullshit, right? I can feel the eye rolls as I record this. Back to the facts now. She was almost exactly a decade younger than Michael. She grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Most of her childhood. Moved to North Carolina where she graduated with

a bachelor's and master's degree in civil engineering from Duke University. She would get a job working for Nortel, this multinational telecommunications and data networking equipment manufacturer based in Toronto, Canada. And she will work her way up to the position of director of information services, making a nice six figure salary with a bunch of stock options. She was very successful. She had a daughter with her first husband, Fred Atwater, named Caitlin.

Kathleen, Fred, and Caitlin lived just a block away from Michael, Patty, and their four kids when Michael and Co. moved into the Durham neighborhood from Germany. Caitlin, born in 1982, right in between Margaret and Martha, and the three girls become fast friends. However, Margaret and Martha also become in a problem in Michael and Patty's marriage according to numerous sources. Basically, Patty did not want to keep these girls. Michael did. Patty found a wealthy and childless older couple back in Germany who wanted to adopt them. Michael, allegedly furious when he finds out about this, but agrees to a trial. Supposedly, Patty talks Michael into allowing the girls to fly to Germany to see if they liked it there.

But then they return just a few weeks later when the couple changes their minds. So how traumatic for these kids who have already been to the ringer? Mike and Patty also according to some sources struggled mightily when it came to raising little Martha who apparently was a difficult child prone to throwing big explosive tantrums. They reached out to her paternal grandparents, George's parents, about adopting just her. But George's parents didn about adopting just her. But George's parents didn't want to split up Martha and Margaret. Yeah, of course not. Fuck were Mike and Patty thinking?

All this drama with the girls. Added to Michael perhaps starting to hook up with dudes on the down-low. There are rumors that Patty caught him hooking up with men. Also, was he stealing again? Plus, was he possibly having an affair with a neighbor Kathleen? Did I mention yet that Mike, bisexual, not faithful, possibly having an affair with a neighbor Kathleen? Did I mention yet that Mike, bisexual, not faithful, possibly fucking dudes on the download?

I think I did at the very beginning. And also, Patty was wanting to return to Germany to live and teach there again. And all of that led to Mike and Patty separated in 1989. Then Patty does move back to Germany and she takes just the boys with her, Todd and Clayton. Mike stays in Durham, North Carolina with the girls, which is so strange to me. They're splitting the kids up. I always hate for that to happen.

Meanwhile, Kathleen had left her husband back in 1987. She had caught him having an affair with a co-worker. And then Mike and Kathleen, who are possibly can have it an affair already, will move in together in 1989. At first it was just Mike, Kathleen, and the girls, but eventually Todd and Clayton will no longer want to live in Germany and they will move back to the States to live with their dad, two adopted sisters, new stepmom, new stepsister. And the new family will seem to mesh well together when they are together. In 1990, after Todd and Clayton each spent a year of high school in Germany, They moved fucking back to Durham with their mom Patty. And then move right back down the street from Michael and Kathleen.

So much drama. But then not long after coming back, Patty decides, nope, I do want to live back in Germany again. To teach there again. And she'll again take the boys with her. I guess just fuck these kids having any sense of stability. Then Michael decides he wants to try and work things out with Patty. So he leaves Kathleen, takes Margaret and Martha away from their new stepmom and stepsister,

and he returns to Germany. But then just a few months later, for fuck's sake, Michael, who still doesn't have a fucking job by the way, is still writing and not getting paid for it, just living on his disability checks even though I gotta say he didn't seem disabled. He decides that their marriage is in fact over once and for all. Now Michael moves back to Durham, takes Margaret and Martha with him, but leaves Todd and Clayton with their mom again in Germany. And he moves back in with Kathleen and Caitlin. Those poor fucking kids, especially Margaret and Martha.

Both their parents die very early in their childhoods, with their mom very possibly being murdered by the man who adopts them. Then that guy and his wife take them from Germany to North Carolina where they know no one. Then send them back to Germany on their own for some old couple to maybe adopt them. Then those total strangers reject them, send them back to North Carolina. Then their adoptive parents consider shipping just one of them off to their grandparents, which does not happen. Hope they never knew that was a possibility at the time. Then their adoptive parents split up. Now they go live with their adoptive dad, a new stepmom, a new stepsister, and are meanwhile separated from their adoptive brothers. Then those parental

figures split up. Now they're separated from their new stepsister, new stepmom. They move across the Atlantic back to Germany. But then their parents split up again. And now they leave Germany again and are reunited with their stepmom and stepsister, stateside, but again separated from their brothers, an adoptive mom. Holy shit. Those kids were put through the emotional wringer, clearly against ability, not a family priority at all. And all that by the time they were seven and nine years old.

Returning to 1991 now. Not long after Michael left his two boys in Germany, Clayton, when he's 17 years old, starts to rebel and run amok. He experiments not only with alcohol, pretty normal, but also with explosives, less normal. Builds a homemade bomb during his senior year in high school, uses it to blow up a phone booth after his application to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, MIT, is rejected. Also attempted to send chemicals, he stole from his school to his dad's house in the states to make a bomb there, but the package didn't make it. An acid leak, however, injured several mail handlers before the package was intercepted and destroyed. So, he doesn't get in trouble for this, gets away with it, but then right before he graduates high school, he does slam his fucking dick in a door and he severs it and then

his dick lands on a pipe bomb he made and it exploded. So now his teen angst increases dramatically because he doesn't have a dick because he slammed it off in a door and he blew it up. And if you believe that happened, god damn you're my favorite listener ever. And I hope you stay forever. And I hope you never doubt a word I say. For real with Clayton now, he doesn't get caught for any of his mayhem in Germany. but he'll keep fucking around explosives and he will get in trouble soon. But first the Petersons financial fortunes actually improved dramatically. 1990 was Michael's best career year. Huge year for him. At the age

of 46, he finally makes a bunch of money on his second book. He's been writing for over fucking two decades now. Not working. And he finally gets a payday. He got himself a literary agent two years earlier and his agent had helped him work on a manuscript about the Vietnam War that Michael had began writing way back in 1971 when he was stationed in Japan. Now almost 20 years later Mike sells it to Simon and Schuster for an advance of $600,000. He'll claim later it was 1.2 million but he's a liar. It was six hundred thousand dollars. The book called Careful with Dicks and Doors, I mean a Time of War it was called, would be initially released in hardcover in March of 1990. The dedication read, to Patty who suffered all my wounds, to

Clayton and Todd whose suffering I pray is only my nightmares, to the dead and to those whose suffering cannot be relieved Although he claimed to love Martha and Margaret as if they were his own he curiously neglected to mention them in his book Again, those poor fucking poor kids are just getting shit on it seems like time of war was described as a cross between a Tom Clancy and a Graham Greene novel the book was set in the midst of war in Vietnam and filled with high-level espionage acts of personal bravery, and lots of fucking—not kidding—a lot of heterosexual and homosexual escapades. Noted authors praised it with enthusiasm.

It propelled Michael onto the New York Times bestsellers list. When the book was released in paperback edition, publishers weekly added their praise, but with a caveat, saying, Peterson adroitly evokes embassy intrigue and his battle scenes are immediate and compelling. Some readers may be taken aback by the powerful troubled current of sexuality, however. Strong troubled sexual elements in his second book and a book with a lot of homosexual scenes again. Was Michael trying to tell people something? I believe he was in a sense. NBC paid for the option to develop Mike's book into a movie which it never did but still he got paid again and

Undisclosed some which might have been I don't know low six figures high two figure or five figures High two figures it was either listen if I had to guess I would say it was low six figures or high two figures I would say it was low six figures or high two figures I would say it was either 17 or 19 dollars or a couple hundred thousand dollars. No Then two years later in early 1992 while Kathleen is kicking ass at work making six figures. Michael gets paid again Now his agent sells his unfinished manuscript called peace and reparations to Simon and Schuster for a 450 thousand dollar advance a lot of fucking money manuscript called Peace and Reparations to Simon and Schuster for a $450,000 advance. A lot of fucking money. Over a million dollars now. That book will be published three years later under the name of Bitter Peace. And so now Michael and Kathleen, they have some extra money to throw

around. Michael at the age of 49 wants to buy a big house worthy of a successful author in his mind. And he does go real big. He finds the perfect home in the heart of the Forest Hills neighborhood on the corner of Cedar and Kent Streets. Built in 1940, it's 10,000 square feet, made it the largest private residence in all of Durham at the time. It boasts 14 rooms, six bedrooms, striking spiral staircase in the front of the house, another unique staircase in the back, an elaborate swimming pool outside. House was actually featured in a movie, The Handmaid's Tale, released in 1990,

based on a book by Margaret Atwood. That series is fucking great. I'm just about to watch the final episode. Very excited. Robert DeVall, Faye Dunway, starred in the movie, and 3,000 area residents would appear as extras. Soon after Mike buys his house, he and Kathleen move into it, along with Caitlin, Margaret, Martha, and July. Then Clayton will move in as well after he graduates high school in Germany. Todd and Patty, meanwhile, remain in Germany. Clayton then enrolls at Duke, his dad's alma mater, as an engineering student that fall,

and now life seems to be going real well for Michael and Co. There's a lot to be happy about, right? They're living in a place one source described as the nicest private residence in all of Durham. Again, it's like the biggest, but there's also a bit of drama. The move into the big new home does create a rift in Kathleen's family. Her sister Candice thought it was disgusting that she was living with a married man when there were kids involved, actually still not divorced from Patty. And the two sisters stopped speaking for over a year. According to Diane Fanning, author of Written in Blood, an investigation into the tragic death of Kathleen Peterson

at the hands of her husband, and a very important source for this timeline, Kathleen didn't let some family disapproval get in the way of her living her best life though. She was a gracious and willing hostess who often held after concert receptions and gala's for the American Dance Festival, the Durham Art Guild, the Carolina Ballet, and more organizations in her lavish home. She would plan dinners for up to a hundred people, prepare all the food herself. She was the Martha Stewart of Durham, according

to Jimmy Gibbs, a society columnist for the Herald Sun. Kathleen was very active with the Durham Arts Council, serving a term on their board of directors and with the Historic Preservation Society. She often provided auction items for the Durham Arts Guild. Both she and Michael were involved in the Forest Hills Neighborhood Association, though with thousands of dollars worth of antiques and collectibles, including 200-year-old furniture

from Germany and Japan and carved vases from ancient Chinese dynasties. Their home was apparently quite the breathtaking sight and Kathleen kept it all spotless. She loved the new house that Michael had bought and all the status that came with it. One of her favorite outside activities was apparently power washing the exterior of her beautiful home until it shined. Todd Peterson returned to North Carolina after his graduation, as I said, from high school in Germany in the spring of 1993 to live in the Grand Peterson family home. Kathleen is excited about this. She expects all five kids

living in the home now to be at the dinner table every night and they are. She sits at one end, Michael sits at the other and they get along famously, have these, you know, lively discussions. Her family comes to love Michael. She and her sister are on good terms again. Also in 1993 Michael began working on another new book that will be called Charlie Two Shows and the Marines Love Company. He will co-write it with David Perlmutt, a reporter for the Charlotte Observer and they'll sell it for another chunk of money in 1996. Meanwhile in 1993 Mike is living the in the best house in the city. He's a

successful author. Everyone loves his socialite and ass-kicking engineer girlfriend. They're still not quite married. These fucking dudes left and right at the local YMCA. Oh, hell yeah! He really was. Starting in the early 90s, Michael made it his routine. He would write in the morning and then he would go to the YMCA to work out for two to three hours before dinner during the week. Except he wasn't just working out. Not in the sense he was claiming. He was fucking getting sweaty I'm sure. If you've seen pictures of him, you know he's thin but he didn't exactly look like a dude fucking pumping iron hours a day five days a week. He was allegedly spending a lot of his time in

the steam room. The steam room with the Durham wide become a known hookup spot for dudes who wanted to fuck dudes but didn't want to get caught fucking dudes. While guys fucked in the steam room, a lookout will be posted on a bench outside the locker room to sound a warning if any staff approached. And Michael will claim years later that Kathleen knew he was doing this. It was totally cool with it. Is that true? I don't buy it for a second. I don't think that story is any more credible than him having been awarded two Purple Hearts in Vietnam. Kathleen would never talk to anybody about Michael doing this. Not her sister, not anyone. And remember she had divorced her husband Fred, her first husband for an extramarital affair with a woman. If she'd been aware of Michael's infidelity and he was allegedly having sex with multiple dudes, wouldn't she have left him in a heartbeat? I mean, wouldn't she be worried at the very least that

his promiscuity would bring home an STI? Was he even using protection when he's having casual hookup after casual hookup in the fucking locker room? No way in my mind that she knew, and was cool with it. And Michael will later reveal that he never actually told her he was doing this. Also in 1993 Michael is pulled over for drinking and driving but he'll get the charge reduced to reckless driving. Michael is also pressuring his son Clayton to get some counseling in 93. Apparently he's having some disciplinary problems, kind of vague disciplinary problems at home and at Duke. And then in 1994 Clayton finally has to pay the Piper for continuing to dick around with explosives

He gets arrested that year charged with planting a bomb in a university office in April of 94 he will admit to breaking into the Allen building which houses the president and other high administrators and placing a fucking pipe bomb Submerged in gasoline in a closet on the second floor He'll also admit to stealing some photo equipment to make a fake ID. In a 1997 prison interview with a reporter for the Raleigh News and Observer, Clayton will say he planted the bomb to divert attention from his pursuit of the fake ID equipment. Also said he took steps to prevent the bomb from ever detonating. Still he will be sentenced to four years and one month in prison and he could have been sentenced to 30 years.

But the judge saw a lot of potential in him and the judge was right. After his release, he will enroll at NC State University and he will become his class as valedictorian. Meanwhile, Michael's son Todd has now come to live with Michael and Kathleen after he graduated high school in Germany. He'll also enroll and graduate from NC State, and then he will briefly work for Nortel Networks Corporation, the same Canadian multinational telecommunications and data networking manufacturer that his stepmom, Kathleen, is an All-Star for. Outside of Clayton's legal problems, things at least on the outside

will appear to still be going great for Michael. In 1997, he and Kathleen will finally get married. It'll appear to all their friends and family that they're happier than ever. One friend will later describe them to a CBS affiliate as an extraordinary couple. They had all the appearances and trappings of happiness totally compatible with one another. Also in 1997, Michael gets a day job for the first time since, well, since before he had left for Vietnam, nearly three decades earlier. He was hired as a columnist for Durham's Harold Sun newspaper,

and he started making a lot of enemies around town during investigative journalism. One of his first columns attacked the district attorney and the police for wasting their time busting bingo halls. He wrote, the DA and the cops can't do anything about those crimes. They can't catch any real criminals in city halls, so they go after underage voters and bingo players.

Later he went after the city council, referring to them as 13 dwarves, and writing Floyd McKissick proposed entrance signs, gateways with flowers and shrubs to make Durham look pretty, and Floyd's the smart one on the council. God help us. In another column column he condemned proposed tax increases writing, your money is not being squandered it's being stolen. He came down to the police department in numerous columns. He wrote that local cops were woefully underpaid and deserving of our appreciation, but that their administration, especially police chief Teresa

Chambers, were idiots. He wrote, as I say repeatedly in this column, stupid is stupid, wrong is wrong, and it doesn't make any difference who commits the dumbness. He or she needs to be outed. He blamed Chambers for the high rate of unsolved crimes, writing the chance of a criminal getting caught is only slightly better than getting hit by a lightning. He'll later say that these attacks are why he will be arrested for the murder of his wife. That they had it out for him because of his criticism. But also maybe his belief that the police sucked at their jobs and boldened him to think he could commit a murder, another murder perhaps, and get away with it. Get away with it again.

Meanwhile at Nortel, Kathleen is kicking fucking ass. These two are quite the power couple. A conference room is named in her honor, something that had never been done for any employee before her. She was now in charge of 3,000 roughly employees and offices in Dallas, Ottawa, Toronto, Research Triangle Park. She's amassing an untold amount of stock options. Her financial worth on paper is skyrocketing as Nortel stock is going up at this time. She's making $145,000 a year. She deferred some145,000 a year. She deferred some of her salary, also getting stock options. Just $145,000 is equivalent to roughly $300 grand a year today.

She's also still enjoying being one of Durham's biggest socialites. On Christmas Eve, she'll deliver homemade croissants up one street, down the other. She'll host community Easter egg hunts on her lawn. She'll host first day of school parties inside her lavish home. Then in 1999 Mike makes a run for the mayor's office. He's one of five candidates and he leaves his position at the Herald Sun to pursue local politics and he should not have done that. He'll become embroiled in a huge scandal. He will get accused of slamming the dicks of all four other candidates indoors and

severing them. He'll say it was an accident. That he just happened to slam four different doors in the faces of four different naked men who just happened to be his opposition and just happened to get their dicks not only slammed but severed. I hope at least some of you are laughing as much as I was when I was putting together these stupid notes and imagining how people would really react. If this was just a plague of dick fucking severing slam doors. Anyway, Mike does become embroiled in a scandal though. The investigative journalist becomes the subject of another investigative journalist's investigation.

During his campaign, he claimed as he had been claiming for years that he had received two Purple Hearts, right, as we talked about for his distinguished military service in Vietnam. However, the news and observer discovered no records to support that claim and then when Mike was confronted about that by a reporter he ended up acknowledging he had lied about his injury. Also told him that not even his family and closest friends knew the real truth. He said quote, it's a cover. I admit it. My second wife, she doesn't know. I'm going to discuss it with her. So he was hiding a big lie from Kathleen. What other lie was he keeping from her? Well, probably the one about him being a straight man who only sexually wanted her. He also said he would continue

his campaign and would tell his supporters the truth. And he did. And it didn't go over so well. And he doesn't come close to winning. So now he's not the mayor. He's also no longer a local columnist with a big platform for criticizing others. Now he's mostly seen as a disgraced guy who lied about his service and people wonder what else he lied about. He loses a lot of credibility, his career as an author is stalled, but Kathleen's doing better than ever. And now Mike is being viewed more as Kathleen's husband than as the head of the household. He's viewed as a guy who used to do some cool shit, which could not have been great for his ego and could not have been great for

their marriage. And now he starts spending more time at the YMCA than ever. Increasingly unhappy with the rest of his life, he drowns his sorrow in a steamy medley of butthole and hard cock. of his life, he drowns his sorrow in a steamy medley of butthole and hard cock. Mike will now try to get back into politics by running for Durham City Council in 2001, but he'll lose that election in November of that year. And now we've made it to the biggest event of this timeline. The reason so much has been written about Michael Peterson. The reason this case has been covered on Forensic Files, Dateline NBC, twice, Investigation Discovery, a massive docu-series broadcast on bothnsic Files, Dateline NBC, twice, Investigation Discovery,

Massive DocuSeries, broadcast on both the BBC and Netflix, an excellent scripted mini-series on HBO Max starring Tony Collette and Colin Firth. So good. I've watched most of that stuff over the years and like I said earlier still wanted to dive back in because this case is so especially fascinating to me. And now it's time to talk about the guy actually slamming his dick in a door, metaphorically speaking. Right after today's second and two, mid-show sponsor breaks. Thanks for listening to those sponsors.

And now we will return to the timeline and explore the most important date within it. December 8th, 2001, the night before Kathleen died, she spoke to my co-author, David Perlmutt, who he co-wrote Charlie Two Shoes and the Marines of Love Company with. According to David, he had spoken with Stratton Leopold, the producer in Hollywood, SHOBEES! Earlier that day, and he told Kathleen that for about a year he and Michael had been in talks about getting the book made into a movie. And

Leopold had finally called David that afternoon to tell him, Bum-pa-da-ba, it's official, they're making a movie. Holy shit, what great news. But what are they getting paid for that movie option? Well, 10 grand. It's not nothing, but also, how fucking much for a guy who outside of a few big scores over literally four to four decades of adult life, hasn't had a job for more than a, you know, couple years in his adult life. Ten thousand dollars, not great for a guy who's been mostly living off permanent medical disability. Even though when you watch him in videos that were shot when

he's in his 60s, 70s, even 80s, he looks like he's in fucking great shape. Moves around fantastically. You know, the docu-series never really was complaining about being in pain all the time that I can recall working out at the gym in some form or another. A couple hours a day, five days a week. Seems like a bullshit disability. Not saying he wasn't injured. I am saying he fucking milked it for more than it was worth. You can clearly sit at a desk and write, but what?

You can't do that in an office? Working on 95? That's convenient. And I know I'm getting off track now, but again, I think that kind of speaks to his character. This guy's... he's fucking shady. Anyway, the movie option. Not for much. David called Mike's home about 6 p.m. Kathleen answered the phone. They talked for about 10 minutes. David could hear Mike in the background.

Kathleen jokingly said he had to empty a dryer and mop the kitchen before he was allowed to get on the phone. David did not sense any real frustration or distress during the call. He said he had to empty a dryer and mop the kitchen before he was allowed to get on the phone David did not sense any real frustration or distress during the call seemed like a perfectly normal evening for the couple He knew pretty well. I thought he did But then hours later at 2 40 a.m. December 9th 2001 Michael Peterson called 9-1-1 and he told the dispatcher who obviously answered the phone that and he told the dispatcher who obviously answered the phone that he had just entered his house and found Kathleen unconscious at the bottom of the staircase. What are the fucking odds that one dude would find two different women, women he was financially connected to in both cases, women whose assets would go

to him in the event of their deaths at the bottom of a bloody fucking staircase. I mean, it's certainly possible, but holy shit is it wildly unlikely. The following is a transcript of his conversation with his operator Mary Allen. Durham 911, what's your emergency? 1810 Cedar Street, please. What's wrong? My wife had an accident. She's still breathing. What kind of accident? She fell down the stairs. She's still breathing. Please come. Is she conscious? What? Is she conscious? No, she's not conscious. Please.

How many stairs did she fall down? What? Huh? How many stairs did... the back stairs? How many stairs? Oh, uh... calm down, sir. Calm down. Uh, 15, 20. I don't know. Please Get somebody here right away, please Okay, somebody's dispatching the ambulance while i'm asking you questions Uh, it's off of uh, it's in forest hills. Okay, please please Okay, sir. Somebody else is dispatching the ambulance. Is she awake now? Uh-huh. Uh

Hello Hello My dick I severed it when I slammed it no The first call was disconnected after he's just kind of babbling Mike calls 9-1-1 again at 2 46 a.m A little after the first call now speaks to operator Tanya Pierce. In this second call, he states that Kathleen is not breathing. Durham 911, what's your emergency? Where are they? This is 1810 Cedar. She's not breathing. Please. Please would you hurry up? Sir?

Can you hear me? Sir, sir calm down. They're on their way. Can you tell me for sure that she's not breathing? Sir, and then just dial tone. Hello? Hello? And it's over. When the police arrived at the house they found Kathleen's body at the bottom of the stairs, you know, surrounded by a very large amount of blood. Mike suggested that Kathleen must have slipped and fell down the stairs while under the influence of alcohol and Valium, but her BAC that night is just.07, which in my mind is not drunk. That's like barely buzzed in my opinion. That is below the threshold for getting ticketed for drinking and driving. Then according to one article by the News and Observer, by the time the

Durham police arrived at the Cedar Street mansion that terrible December night, Peterson had retained private counsel, as is his constitutional right. Upon his lawyer's advice, Peterson never talked with police about what happened to his wife, as is his constitutional right. So he lawyered up immediately. Did that apparently within minutes of his wife dying in his arms, which feels suspicious to me. Not necessarily indicative of guilt, but suspicious.

Mike would later recount their evening leading up to the tragedy with a lawyer present after having time to gather his thoughts or craft a good story. Remember, this guy's not above doing shady shit like stealing from a family friend or making up a story about getting two purple hearts, telling that lie for decades or, you know, keeping a series of affairs from the various women in his life where he's hooking up with dudes on the down-low. And he's an author making his living crafting stories. Mike said he went to Blockbuster, rented American Sweethearts the day his wife died.

He said the two of them watched the movie together that it ended around 11 p.m. They then left their plates in the living room and took their glasses of wine to the kitchen. They spent several hours often, you know, at night talking about life, movies, other subjects in the evenings, having a few drinks. It was a nice night out. They decided to go outside, sit by the pool where they continued to drink. Mike recalled that they drank two bottles of wine that night. Well, must have been drinking that slowly or he was doing most of drinking if her BAC was so low. He claimed that Kathleen eventually said, I got to go in because I've got the conference call in the morning.

She then left Mike by the pool. He didn't recall saying anything, a note to her at that point, but he felt, you know, he most likely said something to the effect of good night. I'll be up later. Mike said in the staircase documentary, that was the last time I saw Kathleen alive. He then corrected himself saying, no, no, she was alive when I found her, but barely. Mike also described his memories of the night in the documentary saying, I can vividly remember finding Kathleen. Actually the way he speaks, I wish I could,

I should have watched some of the videos again right before I recorded this. It annoys me. He does annoy me the way he just the way I can vividly remember finding Kathleen. I can remember opening the door. Like it's kind of dramatic. Anyway I can remember calling 911. I can remember I particularly remember Todd just holding me as tight as possible. I think to contain me and I can remember Heather the doctor Ben's girlfriend taking my pulse. And then I can remember and it must have been very early while I was still in the kitchen that a cop was on Me instantly everywhere. I went a policeman was there I Went outside and with Ben and a policeman was there and I remember walking down there and a policeman was there

There was always a policeman with me Ben and Heather are some of his his sons Todd's friends Mike spoke with Bob Friedman for the magazine attorney-at-law for their August 2 2023 issue providing an account of these events over 20 years later. Then he told him, we were at the pool that night. She had to go to work in the morning to have this conference with Nortel. And then I walked in, she's at the bottom of the stairs. David asked, why do you think she fell?

Well, for fuck's sake, there's blood and she's at the bottom of the stairs. What do you think happened? She fell down the stairs. When Todd Peterson arrived at the house that night he saw an ambulance in the driveway worried His father had a heart attack, you know when he showed up with his friends He was relieved when he ran inside saw his father and tell his dad said oh god Kathleen In motion towards the staircase He must have been like again fucking the second lady are you kidding me?

Uh, the medical examiner who examined Kathleen in the scene concluded her death was probably an accident. However, during the autopsy, the coroner concluded Kathleen died of injuries consistent with blunt force trauma, not an accidental fall down the stairs. So not an accident. Lead investigator Art Holland was interviewed for the staircase documentary. And he told the producers that when he first entered the house, he saw two legs sticking out of a doorway or hallway, he said to his left. There was quote, an abundant amount of blood on the victim, on the floor,

on the walls that in his mind was not consistent at all with the fall down the stairs. Just like I feel compelled to say a fuckload of blood was not consistent with Elizabeth Ratliff's fall down the stairs in Germany in 1985. Detective Holland left the house to get an application for a search warrant immediately because he immediately thought it was a very suspicious death. He thought Kathleen had been killed. Assistant DA Mike Nifong would soon be recorded saying in a meeting to the prosecution team, you can't look at that and think that that's an accident. And especially when you couple it with the fact that the first, I guess you've heard the 911 tape, but the first call in she supposedly still breathing.

Second call in, 50 minutes later or so, she just quit breathing. And yet when the medical examiners or the EMTs arrived, the blood was so dry that they didn't even get any on them. They didn't have to wear protective garments because the blood was already dry. She'd been there for hours probably In that detail. Holy shit. Does that not look good for Michael makes it look very guilty The police searched the house December 9th and 10th Collected a used condom semen from Kathleen's bed bloody hair on a diet Coke can a knife a wine bottle a wine glass and some other

items They also seized hair and bodily fluids from Kathleen at the funeral home, December 11th. Police returned to the Peterson home December 12th to focus specifically on the staircase. Collected more stuff, hair staples, Christmas tree needles, blood evidence. Authorities also confiscated three computers, a paperweight, condoms inside a bookcase? Random? Obtained phone records for the home phone and three cell phones. December 20, 2001, 11 days after Kathleen died, Michael Peterson indicted for her murder. The husband did it. Medical examiner Dr. Deborah Radish

testified at the grand jury session that Kathleen's injuries were not consistent at all with a simple fall down the stairs. Autopsy show that Kathleen died of severe injuries to the back of her head where she had multiple lacerations. Dr. Radish said in an interview afterwards, quote, they were caused by some sort of blunt object. We don't usually see multiple injuries of that kind of severity in a fall down the steps. She also noted that Kathleen did not have skin under her nails. It would have suggested a struggle. She declined to say whether cuts and bruises on

Kathleen's arms and upper body indicated a struggle. It was almost as if somebody had approached her from behind the top of the staircase, somebody she knew, who she didn't feel the need to defend herself from. And they bashed her in the fucking head with something, knocked her, pushed her down the stairs. And then that somebody may have then bashed her in the head again at the bottom of the stairs. Shortly after Mike was indicted, District Attorney Jim Harden filed a motion saying he wanted to seek the death penalty should Michael be convicted. Michael turned himself in at the Durham County Jail that day. On arrival, he made his first public

statement saying, Kathleen was my life. I whispered her name in my heart a thousand times. She is there and I can't stop crying. I would have never done anything to hurt her." All of Michael's family stood by him at first, including Kathleen's daughter, Caitlin, who made her own public statement. My mother and Mike had an absolutely loving relationship and there was no way that either of them would ever wish any sort of harm on the other one. Todd Peterson would tell the Staircase documentary team years later, I knew for a fact that no way in this world

my father ever would have hurt Kathleen. But the realism of their investigating, it did seem real. While it was completely unfounded in my mind, the way that they were behaving, the way that they were barking orders at us, restricting us from talking to one another, that truly drove home the point that they were investigating this is a crime

Martha recalled I remember dad actually explaining it to us and he was just like he was in shock kind of and he was kind Of shaking and he was like I didn't do it You know you you have to believe me and we were like dad we do believe you you know This is horrible like how can we not believe you you know? It's we didn't even know any details yet, and we were just like, we believe you, we believe you. We know it's not true, and this is horrible. And it's just so upsetting. Mike hired David Rudolph as his defense attorney.

Rudolph implied the police were jumping to conclusions saying for us, if in fact the police are right, that this was not a fall, well, that should be the beginning of the investigation, not the end of the investigation. Michael posted bail and was released from jail January 14th 2002 He posted an eight hundred and fifty thousand dollar bond signed papers on his big beautiful home to cover it He also relinquished his passport agreed not to leave North Carolina

His defense team filed a 20-page brief arguing that Kathleen did fall down the stairs or was hit by an intruder that Kathleen did fall down the stairs or was hit by an intruder. And quote, if in fact, someone struck Mrs. Peterson, as the police seem to believe it is far more likely to have been an intruder than Michael Peterson. The defense accused the police of botching the investigation by not seizing important evidence during their initial search and returning to confiscate items they'd left behind. The staircase documentary team filmed a defense team meeting in January of

2002, where they discussed the lack of evidence to support this intruder theory. The key issue in the case was what caused the lacerations on Kathleen's head. It was unlikely that if Kathleen was being attacked she would have just stood there and let it happen, but there was seemingly no evidence she fought someone, which supported the accident theory. Or supported Michael fucking killing her by walking up behind her, hitting her in the head. And again, maybe she, you know, she just didn't defend herself because she didn't think she needed to from the love of her life. The defense met with more experts in February.

One of them was forensic pathologist Dr. Werner Spitz, who had recently died. Or not at that time. He was dead. He was a fucking zombie pathologist. It's fucking incredible. They resurrected this guy. They made him testify. No, he died actually just like a month ago. But anyway, he's alive at this time and he'd worked on super high-profile cases such as the assassinations of JFK, Martin Luther King Jr. He was a thousand years old. He also testified at the civil trial against O.J. Simpson, trial of Casey Anthony, consulted on the John Bonet-Ramsey investigation. A lot of time-sucked topics. When asked about the lacerations on Kathleen's head, Dr. Spitz

said, I would tend to consider the lacerations as second choice in my thought of what occurred here. The first choice is the presence of the bruises, not the presence, excuse me, the lacerations. The presence of the lacerations is misleading because you see a whole lot of lacerations and you say, sorry, because you see a whole lot of lacerations and you say, sorry, because you see a whole lot of lacerations and you say, oh my God, I did that too at the beginning. This is boom, boom, boom, hit them on the head. But when you keep looking at it, then you see things you didn't see before. He believed the wounds were more consistent with Kathleen hitting a round flat object

like her just falling. Dr. Henry Lee, another famous forensic scientist present at the meeting, noted that there was no cast-off pattern on the ceiling of the staircase area, which is common when someone is beaten but not always present. Dr. Lee, a former Taiwanese police officer who came with the US in 1965 with 50 bucks and his wife. He earned a PhD in biochemistry, became internationally famous in 1995 when he testified at the trial of O.J. Simpson for the defense. It was suggested the blood splatter on the wall could have been, you know, could have

came from Kathleen coughing. Dr. Lee suggested that blood from Kathleen's head might have dripped down into her nose or mouth, causing her to cough. Dr. Lee theorized that Kathleen tripped on one of the stairs and fell backwards and hit her head against the door frame, then fell on the floor and hit her head again. He felt that knocked her unconscious. Now she's bleeding for a long period of time, which is why a lot of her blood had dried up by the time investigators arrived. He believed, though, that she regained consciousness, started to stand up, then slipped on her own blood,

as evidenced by some blood on the bottom of her feet and that caused her to fall again Some kind of fucking dark Charlie Chaplin slapstick situation so much bumbling around slipping and falling coffins spraying all over the stairs Finally the defense conducted an experiment to see if Mike would have heard Kathleen shouting for help Some members of the team stood outside by the pool David Rudolph stood in the distant area of the house member of the team played a recording featuring pool. David Rudolph stood in the distant area of the house. Member of the team played a recording featuring a woman screaming loudly for help and no one at the pool could hear shit. It should also be noted that there was an active fountain by the pool at that time. Jumping ahead to October 29, 2002, in the midst of trial preparations,

Michael's stepdaughter, Kaitlyn, Kaitlyn Atwater, now 20, files a wrongful death lawsuit against Mike, whom she once supported. Now she is convinced that, yep, Michael killed her mom. As time passes, Caitlin and other members of Kathleen's family will turn against Michael. Well, Caitlin already did, but you know, other members of Kathleen's family will turn against Michael, particularly Kathleen's sister, Candice Zamperini. Then eight months later, in a surprising turn of events, German authorities reopened Elizabeth Ratliff's case in June of 2003 and lied to the similarities to Kathleen's death. 17 years after she died, Elizabeth's body, or what was left of it, is exhumed from her grave in Texas for a new autopsy. The second autopsy is performed by medical examiner Deborah Radish, who we heard

from already. Her report stated that Elizabeth died from blunt force trauma to the head, most likely from a homicidal attack. And now German prosecutors confirm they're working with the US on the investigation. Jury selection for the infamous staircase trial starts May 5, 2003, last eight weeks. Opening statements begin July 1, 2003. Prosecution led by Jim Harden and Frieda Black. Harden told the jury that they would hear about a storybook marriage but appearances can be deceiving. The prosecution accused

Michael of beating Kathleen to death with a blow poke from the family home. The motive? Michael, who we've established is bisexual, who we've established is having sex with men outside of his marriage, had just got caught. Kathleen finally discovered evidence on Michael's computer that he was planning to hire a male escort on the day that she died and a deadly argument ensued. Pathologist Deborah Radish informed the prosecution that because Kathleen did not suffer a skull fracture, the seven lacerations on the back of her head were most likely caused by a cylindrical object with enough mass to cut skin but not enough to break bone.

Kathleen also had crushed thyroid cartilage suggesting someone had tried to strangle her with their hands. Manual strangulation. That's huge. Did Michael strangle her to finish her off after he bashed her in the fucking head that knocked her down the stairs? D.I. Harden then presented the jury with a four-foot long blow poke, a hollow brass pipe with a short hook on the end meant to stoke a fire by blowing air into it, which they suggested was a potential murder weapon. This is the

weakest part of the case to me. The blow poke presented by Harden belonged to Kathleen's sister Candice Zapparini, who said she had given a similar one to Kathleen several years prior. The prosecution said the blow poke from the Peterson household went missing right after she turned up dead. Weird. Hardin told the jury the paramedics would testify about vast amounts of blood inside the house, concentrated on the back staircase. Blood was found six feet up the staircase walls, which he argued was not fucking normal at all for an accidental fall, like Mike claimed.

They would also hear from a North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation, SBI agent about Michael's bloody shoe print on Kathleen's calf. How did it get there? Perhaps from a life and death struggle. Prosecution also argued that money was a big motive. They argued that Michael had killed Kathleen to gain control of her assets, which included a $1.4 million life insurance payout. Kathleen was director of information services as I mentioned at Nortel she made 145 grand a year but

she had recently become at risk of being laid off because the company wasn't doing well. The stock prices are going down at the time of the murder. Nortel having problems they would actually completely fold and cease to exist about a dozen years later. Kathleen's sister Candace would testify that in mid 2001 she worried about losing her job and complained that finances prevented them from repairing leaky plumbing and some other issues that they're very big, very expensive to maintain home. Peterson's also had, and I found this surprising, over $143,000 in credit card debt in late 2001 when Kathleen died. That's a fucking, that's a lot of credit card debt in late 2001 when Kathleen died. That's a fucking that's a lot of credit card debt

Living way outside their means And most of this is on Michael right dude hasn't worked a few years at this point hasn't sold a book in years either It's all on Kathleen shoulders Sure look like he was you know gonna get his book option to be made into a movie for fucking ten grand That's not enough to keep them from going underwater movie for fucking 10 grand. That's not enough to keep them from going underwater. But if Kathleen dies and Mike gets that 1.4 mil in life insurance and can cash out her stocks as well, well all his money problems go away. But if she were to divorce him because she found out he was sucking dick behind her back at the YMCA, well he's fucked. And in conservative southern Durham

in 2003, right, he's probably also embarrassed, you know, she is. Before it came out during his trial, none of his friends, none of his family knew he was bisexual. He had incentive to want to keep that very quiet. So now if she found out and is going to tell on him he's the guy who has lied about two purple hearts, the guy who cheated on his wife with men at the YMCA and elsewhere, he's a guy not making enough money to keep his precious house, which he will lose. And if he doesn't sell another book, he will spend his final years in poverty and obscurity unless he can marry somebody else with money. Kathleen died. She and Michael were both overdrawing their bank accounts as well, and some of

Michael's emails from the previous two years revealed that he sought financial help for their kids. For example, April 18th, 2001, he sent an email to Margaret and Martha's paternal uncle. Martha was going to start college at the University of San Francisco, a private college that cost at the time 33 grand a year. Michael asked her uncle if he could give $5,000 a semester and he agreed. November 29, 2001, Michael wrote to his ex-wife Patty asking her to take out a $30,000 home equity loan to pay off some credit card debt incurred by their sons Clayton and Todd, who owed $1,000 a month on the interest alone.

He ended his message with, it is simply not possible for me to discuss this with Kathleen. Why not? Was she tired of spending money she made from her job to cover Mike and his kids' financial fuck-ups? That's a rumor. However, the defense will counter that the Petersons had enough money, had a two million dollar net worth, that they were well off enough to defer 200 grand of Kathleen's annual salary and could have exercised stock options that would have made over 600

grand in profit. But if that's fucking true, then why are they racking up credit card debt at high interest rates? Why are they overdrawing on their bank accounts? Why is Mike sending emails asking for help? That makes no sense. And again, if Kathleen dies, Mike is the beneficiary of her 1.4 million dollar life insurance policy and gets 600 grand in stocks. And I would imagine the deferred salary was going towards some sort of pension, which you will also get. D.A. Harden did not bring up the death of Elizabeth Ratliff in his opening statement because the judge had not yet decided whether or not to allow the information to trial, so he chose to say nothing.

Defense attorney David Rudolph starts the defense case playing Mike's 911 call. During his hour and 20-minute opening statement, he explained that the Petersons' marriage quote was a love that absolutely everyone who saw them or knew them recognized and envied. He said that Kathleen's death was an accident, a tragic accident. Rudolph played an animation showing an expert's theory that Kathleen fell backwards, lacerated her scalp on the door molding, then fell again, cut her head on the floor molding, passed out for a while, stood up, slipped, cut her head again on a corner of the

staircase. Jesus Christ. Again, what the fuck? Like it's just a slapstick comedy fall. She fell three times on the stairs. Seriously. What music did they use to score this animation? Maybe that? Or did they go with some Looney Tunes? Defense attorney David Rudolph would accuse the Durham police of contaminating the death scene by allowing people into the house. He said they wanted to quote Get Michael for his Harold Sun columns, accusing them of incompetence in the late 90s. Rudolph told the jury the police had reason to think the worst.

Mike Peterson had been critical of the police for years. I mean, not a bad strategy. I don't buy it in this case, but okay. According to local news outlet WRAL, Todd Peterson, friends and neighbors who came to the house that night were all illegally detained and the police did not put Kathleen's sandals and the towels under her head into evidence bags. Additionally, on the afternoon of December 9th, SBI agent Dwayne Deaver arrived to study the blood stains on the staircase, but before doing any tests told the detective he thought it was a homicide.

Rudolph also said that 30 officers who searched the house found nothing that could have served as a murder weapon in Kathleen's case. He added that the SBI could not recreate anything like the blood spatter pattern found in the stairwell. Rudolph showed a video of SBI agents beating a mannequin's head at a mock-up stairway and bludgeoning a sponge full of blood with a blow poke. The amount of blood from the test less than what was present around Kathleen's body. I will say the prosecution latched on to the missing blow poke as a possible

murder weapon. Not a great call. They will never be able to prove that Mike had used it to hit her with. One of the most ambiguous aspects of this case is not being able to zero in on a credible murder weapon. Rudolph also said he found it strange that Elizabeth Ratliff's second autopsy was not performed until a month before jury selection started, which would have generated a lot of negative publicity from Mike at a critical time. He speculated the timing was done to make jurors assume Michael had to have killed both women. But also, shouldn't that make people think he probably killed two women? Two women both fucking found dead after spending time with Michael, dead at the bottom of atypically bloody staircases? The first

witness of the trial was paramedic Jay Rose, who said he had seen 30 to 40 falls downstairs over the course of his career, some of them fatal, and he testified, quote, the most you get in a fall is a broken bone. The worst I've seen is a broken neck. So essentially he's saying that no simple fall down the stairs should have accounted for all of the blood. He arrived five minutes after Mike's 911 call on December 9, 2001. The front door was open. The door had blood on it. There was blood spatter almost everywhere he looked. Some of the blood on the staircase walls and steps also dried to the touch, and the blood on the back of Kathleen's head was already clotted.

More blood had already soaked clean through a towel somebody had put under her head, there was so much fucking blood. And she'd appeared to have bled out a while ago, long before Mike's first 911 call when he claimed she was still alive. All of this very inconsistent with the claim of a drunken fall down the stairs. Rose also testified that Micah was quote unwilling or unable to help us. He did not even provide Kathleen's date of birth. Said he went outside to turn out the lights and she fell down the stairs and that was all he said. One of the most important witnesses at trial

would be Brent Walgamott, a former male escort who testified on August 11, 2003, that Mike had tried on several occasions to slam his dick in a door, which speaks obviously to his anger issues. Or it speaks to me not being able to stop repeating that bit of absurdity. Walgamott testified that he once advertised himself online as Brad from Raleigh, a military man who was a sex worker. By the time of trial he said he was a sophomore chemistry student at NC State, wanted to go to medical school. Back in August and September of 2001 during a Mike's city council campaign while he was on active duty at Fort Bragg but living off base, he said he exchanged an email with Mike who had

agreed to pay him $150 an hour for sex. On September 2nd, 2001 Mike wrote, You're not looking for a relationship, neither am I. We each have lives. I know you deal with professional types who obviously can afford a couple hundred bucks to get off and maybe get degraded a little. Hey, I know a lot of guys like that myself. What other guys he talking about there? Other dudes from the YMCA steam room I imagine. Mike invited him to meet on September 5th, 2001 at quote his house for another house that he had, but Walgamont stood him up because he was tired. Then six days later the Twin Towers are attacked. Active duty personnel

put on high alert. He apologizes to Mike via email that he's not available on September 30th but he gets no response. Prosecutors said the emails were a link in the events leading up to Kathleen's death. They noted that late on December 8th 2001 Kathleen had asked a colleague at Nortel to email a document to one of Mike's email accounts, and Kathleen might have seen another email between Mike and Walgamont when she checked his inbox, which then led to a fight. Their goal with Walgamont's testimony was to show the jury that their marriage not as perfect as it seemed. Just a week earlier, the judge ruled the jury could see and hear evidence about Mike's sexuality and preference for gay pornography, and the jury now viewed a

stack of 400 photos of nude dudes taken from Mike's computer hard drive. When Brett Walgamott was subpoenaed, he went to the defense for help because he did not want to be prosecuted for doing sex work. Walgamott obtained a grant of immunity from the prosecution in exchange for his testimony. On cross-examination, Walgamott testified that most of his clients were married men, saying, quote, usually they are professionals because my fees were quite high. I saw doctors, attorneys, and one judge. Near the entire courtroom began laughing at that and then Judge Orlando Hudson said, it was not this judge. A-oh! Brief moment of levity.

Such a serious case. Uh, August 18th, 2003, SBI agent Dwayne Deaver, another key witness is the prosecution's blood splatter analysis or spatter analysis, testified that the blood spatter on the walls of the staircase and the blood of Michael Shorts and sneakers were evidence of not a fall, but a beating. Deaver told the jury a forceful impact occurred on step number 16. It was an impact on the surface and the back of the head of the victim came in contact forcibly. It is consistent with something more forceful than a fall.

Earlier the court heard from FBI agent John Bendure who testified he examined Mike's khaki shorts which were covered with blood in the front and he'd also found eight tiny drops of blood spattered on the inside of the right leg and on the back. How would that blood get there if Mike was not with Kathleen when she died? The prosecution argued that if Mike simply found Kathleen after she had fallen, that blood would not have turned up where it did looking like it did. Deaver then also explained the experiments he conducted to try and replicate the crime scene. He said Kathleen was hit at least three times on the back of the head with an object and the back of her head also hit two wooden stairs.

Based on the blood spatter on Mike's shorts and shoes, the wearer was standing directly over Kathleen while she was being killed. Dever held one of Mike's Converse sneakers in front of him while he spoke saying, "...the source of blood at the time of impact was above the shoes. I can't say how high it was. I can say it was above the shoe. Deaver testified that Detective Art Holland presented a blow poke to him, asked if an instrument like that could produce the stains found on step number 15, a similar bloodstain,

also found near Kathleen's left leg. And Deaver pressed the hooked end into a bloody paper towel pressed that against a poster board and determined that yeah it could have left such marks. While processing the crime scene on December 9, 2001 Deaver searched for such a tool but found no fireplace tools in the sitting room near the kitchen. But when he returned June 27, 2002 to do more investigation a fireplace set now was there. Others will testify that a fireplace set had been there before Kathleen's murder. It appeared somebody had hidden it right around the time she died,

which again suspicious. Deaver asked if he had a theory as to what happened to Kathleen and he testified that he believed an attacker had stood outside the stairwell, hit Kathleen on the head, then once she was face down on the stairs when she'd fallen after the blow she's hit two more times. Then he said somebody started to clean up the crime scene. Because there should have been blood stains on step number 17, in my opinion. The blood has been purposely removed after the victim came to rest on step number 18. Deaver also said somebody was trying to destroy or change blood stains on the front of these shorts. But there was still a textbook case of blood spatter from a beating.

August 22, 2003. The judge rules that evidence about Elizabeth Ratliff's death is admissible now at trial. And that of course is not going to bode well for the defense. Her second autopsy performed April 16, 2003 by the state medical examiner's office. Now that somebody is actually paying attention, her cause of death definitively determined again to be homicidal assault, not an accident. As I mentioned, very telling to both Elizabeth, Kathleen, deep lacerations to the back of their heads. What are the fucking odds? What are the odds that Michael

Peterson will be the last person to see two different women alive, two different women whose deaths would benefit him financially more than anyone else, two different women who died falling down a set of stairs, two different women who had deep lacerations on the backs of their heads that pointed not to an accidental fall but to a murder. How is anyone supposed to think he did nothing shady? That he's not guilty of hurting them? Whether he is guilty or not, he sure fucking looks guilty. Feels like the odds of him not murdering at least one of these women is about a billion to one.

Dr. Deborah Radish wrote of Elizabeth Ratliff's wounds, and I mentioned this earlier I know, but here's more detail. wounds and I mentioned this earlier I know but here's more detail. They are indicative of multiple blunt force impacts either from blows to the head caused by a blunt object or by the head being forcibly struck against a hard surface. It is further my opinion that these injuries are incurred while Mrs. Ratliff was alive and and are of sufficient severity to have caused her death. Dr. Radish also wrote the intracranial hemorrhages noted at the first autopsy were primarily the result of blunt trauma

rather than underlying natural disease process. Defense attorney David Rudolph then questioned the inflammatory language used by neuropathologist Dr. Aaron Gleckman who wrote in the report that Elizabeth's death was quote clearly from a homicidal assault. Rudolph noted that half of Elizabeth's brain had been missing, making it difficult to reach that conclusion. But also, David Rudolph, not a neuropathologist. Rudolph also addressed the notion

that Mike was the last person to see Elizabeth alive, saying, there is an assumption that Mike Peterson was the last person to see Elizabeth Ratliff alive, but there isn't a scintilla of evidence in the file that establishes that. However, German police, one of the the reports states clearly that Elizabeth spent the evening before her death November 24th 1985 with Mike and Patty before she went home.

And then there's the neighbor, you know, Karen Ham, who claims she saw Mike run out of the house hours later right around or exactly around the time that Liz died, which I mentioned earlier clearly does not does not look good. Then on September 15th, 2003, forensic expert Dr. Henry Lee testified for the defense that the blood spatter at Kathleen's scene was consistent with the fall, not a beating. He seems to be in the minority there amongst experts in that assessment. Dr. Lee was retired by the time of Peterson's trial. Normally he worked for prosecutors, but he did defense cases for 500 bucks an hour. The defense had already paid him about 27 grand by this point. He demonstrated to the jury how liquid changes shape depending on the angle of impact.

One experiment of his involved spitting out a mouthful of ketchup into a poster board or onto one. The blood and hair at the scene suggested Kathleen fell against the vertical crown molding of the staircase. Dr. Lee found 11 partial fingerprints and palm prints in the blood in that area meaning Kathleen might have tried to stand up. Or just was fucking struggling with an attacker. Blood on her feet indicated she did stand up at some point. Might have hit the wall in the stairwell, a metal chairlift on the wall.

Might have shaken her head, caused her hair to fling blood around the space, might have coughed up blood against the wall, but Dr. Lee said he could not give an exact sequence of events. A lot of mitos. I mean, you know, who fucking knows? She might have bashed herself in the head, might have done it to herself, might have just hit herself in the head until she was good and bloody, and then she might have, I don't know, raised up and down the stairs, jumping up and down, down howl at the moon shaking her head around all while listening to Motley Crue's Kickstart my heart at full blast until she passed out and then died from blood loss

I mean it might have happened I mean, it might have happened. I fucking love that song. Uh, I highly doubt that happened. Now let's talk more about what was supposed to be, but never really became, uh, the smoking gun of this case. Fucking blow poke. Uh, September 23rd, 2003, David Rudolph surprised the court with a blow poke

from the Peterson's garage. The one prosecutors alleged had been missing throughout the course of the investigation. It was allegedly discovered by Mike's son Clayton over the weekend. This was supposedly the blow poke gifted to the couple by Candace Zamperini several years earlier or at least it was presented as such. As reported by the news and Observer, it was covered in dead bugs and spider webs, indicating it had been unused for quite some time. David Rudolph asked Detective Art Holland, did you just assume it was gone? And Holland responded, gone or put up somewhere. According to the news and observers coverage of the trial, Tuesday's unveiling did more than produce another piece of evidence.

Rudolph put in bold face for the jury his overarching theme in arguing for Mike Peterson's acquittal of first-degree murder. Peterson's tough newspaper column so annoyed Durham County's political infrastructure that when the love of his life took a terrible fall on the back staircase of their home, authority seized the moment. But did it prove that or did it mostly point to the possible murder weapon being hidden? Also, now it's been nearly two years since Kathleen died, which is more than enough time for cobwebs and dust. Dust can start forming on an object in mere 48 hours.

Cobwebs, they can be made by a spider in one hour. A lot of fucking bugs die, you know, in less than a year's time. So Mike could have used this blow poke to kill Kathleen, then he could have hidden it. Nearly two years later, could have been found covered in dust, cobwebs, dead bugs. This presentation feels like a big nothing burger to me. Years later, former DA Jim Harden said in a 2019 interview with the Durham Herald Sun that he doesn't believe the blow poke presented by the defense was actually

the blow poke that Kathleen's sister had given her. Harden noted that the house was searched multiple times. It was never found. And check this out. About three weeks after this trial ended, Harden said his office received a call from a federal prosecutor's office. A woman from Vermont had called to report that a man named Michael Peterson ordered three blow

pokes from her before the blow poke was introduced to trial and she provided the shipping order as proof. That's suspicious. 2004, the Herald Sun would report to the blow poke shown at trial was actually a different blow poke ordered from a different shop in Maine. Manager Alicia McGuire told the Herald Sun in 2004 that a man identifying himself as Mike Peterson left a message said he needed two blow pokes immediately. They cost $82.50 each were shipped by overnight air. They were made in China, not antiques.

Why would Mike Peterson need these additional blow pokes? He would tell the BBC years later that the blowpokes were ordered to show the jury it could not have been the murder weapon, but then the real blowpoke showed up. Okay? 2003, David Rudolph told the News and Observer he had planned to use one of the extra blowpokes Michael ordered as a prop in his closing arguments. He was going to smash it over the head of a mannequin to show how mangled the blowpoke would be in contrast to the undamaged blow poke found in the

garage. Okay, alright, I see the line of logic. But in the end the blow pokes too dissimilar to make an effective demonstration. So much fucking blow poke talk. For me the blow poke being the murder weapon or not being the murder weapon, it doesn't matter. In light of everything else pointing to Michael's guilt. I feel like it mostly just become a big distraction, something that jurors can get lost in the weeds on. ADA free to blacks closing argument is presented in the staircase documentary and she said in part, you need to keep in mind we're not dealing with the average individual here. We're

dealing with a fictional writer. Some people even say he's a good fictional writer. I love that shade. Some people, not me, think he's good. He is a person who knows how to create a fictional plot. And then there's Brad. Do you really believe that Kathleen knew that Mr. Peterson was bisexual? Does that make common sense to you? That it was okay with her to go to work while he stayed at home and communicated by email and telephone with people he was planning on having sex with. And this is not just a computer relationship. I asked Brad what they were gonna do and he told you. I don't mean to offend anybody, but he said they were gonna have anal sex. The only real- POOPOOLOOPOO!

The only reason that meeting didn't take place was because of Brad. It wasn't because of Mr. Peterson. He was fired up and ready to go. He was hard-ass fuck. She didn't take place was because of Brad. It wasn't because of Mr. Peterson. He was fired up and ready to go. He was hard ass fuck. She didn't say that, I added that. And you honestly believe that Kathleen Peterson knew about that, would have approved of that. And it wasn't just Brad. You saw the rest of the things on his computer.

Once again, these things are so filthy, we can't even show them on TV. Filth, pure filth. This isn't people involved in a relationship. This is just any which way. This is called hardcore porn. Do you think she approved of this type of activity while she's off at work or sleeping? I don't actually.

David Rudolph then said in his closing argument for the defense, and so the real issue in this case is not whether we have proven that Kathleen Peterson died as a result of an accident. That's not our burden. The real issue, the one that you need to focus on, is whether the state has proven beyond a reasonable doubt with proof that fully satisfies and entirely convinces you that on the morning of December 9th, 2001, Michael Peterson beat Kathleen Peterson to death with a blow poke in the narrow stairway that all of you saw just a few weeks ago. It was really zero when in that blow poke.

Rudolph emphasized that reasonable doubt in this case, like the fact that the murder weapon was never found, that there is reasonable doubt because there's no credible motive, which is not true. In my opinion, in his two, a 2023 interview with attorney at law magazine, Michael said about the evidence presented at trial, what happened in that trial could not happen today. It's just simply not possible for Hardin and Frieda racing around showing these pictures. He's guilty because he's bisexual. Try that one today in court. It's not gonna happen. You can't shame anybody out of anything.

And the, excuse me, and the one that I blame is Judge Orlando Hudson, who is a good liberal Democrat. I'm a good liberal Democrat, but I spent eight years in prison because that asshole did not make correct judicial decisions. Michael was asked if Kathleen knew he was bisexual and he responded, this is huge. Quote, Kathleen and I never talked about my bisexuality, but there was a silent understanding. Get the fuck out of here. No way. I don't buy that for a second. That a southern woman in the 90s, a socialite, a debutante of sorts if you will, is going to be cool without ever needing to discuss it even one time that her husband is fucking dudes at the YMCA steam room while she's at work.

Bullshit. No, they didn't discuss it because Mike knew she wasn't going to be cool with it. Mike said about the testimony concerning the death of Elizabeth Ratliff, I think a lot of it had to do with Liz. We are watching the TV and they're at the graveyard, then they bring the body back and it's filmed all the way. It didn't have any effect on the jury. Are you kidding me? That and the homophobia. Here are the photographs of Liz in the coffin and the filth, the filth, the filth. Hell, I would have probably convicted me." And he laughed. Michael also discussed his regret saying, I wish I'd testified. Jury consultant Margie Fargo was saying to Rudolph, you need to personalize Mike, need to bring him alive here, put his family on, let his children say what they have to say.

David didn't want to do that. He thought we wanted the basics on the merits of his arguments. And he did. But the jury went the other way. David Rudolph wrote to the Attorney-at-Law magazine in July of 2023, When the prosecutor wants to convict someone and is permitted to go beyond what should be allowed, no one's safe. We all felt their experts had been neutralized by cross-examination and by our experts. And most importantly, if Mike or any of his children testified, his bisexuality, his double life and the death in Germany would have been rehashed ad nauseam by the prosecutor.

And of course Michael had lied about his purple heart in Vietnam during the mayor race, which was exposed. Mike is a liar would have become a new theme for the prosecutors. Hindsight's blind. I believe to this day that the right decision was made. I don't believe his testimony could or would have made a difference in the end. The trial wasn't fair. Irrelevant and prejudicial evidence was allowed.

That's why Mike was found guilty he never should have been. October 10, 2003. After four days of deliberation, Michael Peterson was indeed found guilty of first degree murder. His daughters, Margaret and Martha, began to cry after the verdict was read. His brothers and sons are stunned into silence. His stepdaughter, fucking relieved. Judge Orlando Hudson instructed Mike to stand up, asked him if he wanted to say anything before sentencing.

And he's turned to his family and said, it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. And then he was sentenced to life in prison without parole. As he was escorted out of court, he told his family, it's all right. It's all right. And now Mike and his team will spend years appealing his case.

Jumping ahead five years now. January 28th, 2008, Kathleen's daughter, Kaitlyn Atwater is awarded a $25 million judgment in a wrongful death suit against Michael. So now a second court feels that Kathleen's death was not an accident and that Michael had killed her. Later that year, August 21st, 2008, an attorney and friend and neighbor of Michael's named Larry Pollard held a news conference where he presented the infamous owl theory. Arguing the evidence showed Kathleen died after she had been viciously attacked by a wild owl. And I'm gonna admit, when I first saw this presented in the docu series they almost fucking had me they almost had me totally convinced that an

owl really did Kathleen but looking further into this I do find it beyond absurd Pollard who still stands behind his findings today is a lifelong hunter he feels his knowledge of animal tracks and bleeding patterns helped him identify that Kathy was in his opinion murdered by one of those damn sky vikings, the infamous Bardow. A creature that, for those of you familiar with my stand-up know I'm a fan of. They are a formidable bird of prey with their sharp talons and hooked beaks and they're very powerful. Woo! But do they actually kill human beings? From what I've been able to gather online, and I have looked at a lot of places, no human

has ever been definitively killed by a barred owl. Like not fucking one. And recorded human history. And not even close. No one's even been like seriously wounded. And I should add the defense never claimed that the owl killed Kathleen directly. The defense claimed, I think something even more ridiculous, that the owl attacked Kathleen, cut her head up real bad with his talents and that in a

frantic bid to get away from this barred owl she ran into the house she fell down the stairs or hurt herself further and then she died. That's quite the theory. I've seen pics of people's wounds left by barred owl attacks online like the head wounds of Kirsten Matheson, a young woman in Washington state who was attacked twice actually by a barred owl in 2022 and she was left bloodied but like like a little bit bloody. Little tiny lacerations. Nothing like what happened to Kathleen like not even close the wounds don't even look remotely related. I found pics of other people attacked by barred owls and again tiny lacerations not a lot of bleeding. Nothing compared to the kind of blood found around Kathleen in the stairs. Pollard said at the conference regarding his owl theory, the district attorney's office dismissed it as absurd.

Yeah, because it's fucking dumb as shit. Citing the absence of feathers and most people labeled it as ridiculous. Always the same question was asked by authorities in the press, where are the feathers? I think there was more questions than that. And then he said, well folks, we are today announcing the feather has been found. And yes, according to an SBI report, microscopic parts of feathers, as in three, some sources say three, some sources say one, teeny tiny feather parts, found among some hair clutches in Kathleen's left hand. Pollard dismissed the possibility that the feather feathers could have been goose down from a pillow or comforter, but they could have been.

Because those feathers were never tested to conclusively match to an owl. Still, Pollard believes an owl imprinted on the Petersons reindeer lawn ornaments which were kept in storage. Remember Kathleen died around Christmas time. Barred owls were seen around the Forest Hills neighborhood were known to occasionally attack small dogs. Pollard suspected the owl lived in the barn on the Peterson property where the lawn ornaments were normally stored And when Kathy went to the barn to get the decorations the owl felt threatened and attacked viciously Pollard believed an owl swooped down on Kathleen outside sank his talons in the back of her head the impact knocked her down

She got up. She ran inside. She was intoxicated but not really because her bac, you know revealed She was far from drunk, but he said she was. He said she was drunk and injured. She eventually lost consciousness inside the house from all of the fucking blood loss from this never before seen in history level of owl attack. And then came into the house, fell down the fucking stairs, then woke up, and then, you know, fell down the stairs again. What the hell? I can't find an example of anyone being cut so badly by an owl that they passed out from blood loss. Nonsense. Pollard theorized that she stood up

once or twice causing the blood to spatter like it did in the staircase. It fell down eventually, blood to death. Two months after the Supreme Court upheld my's conviction, Mike called Larry Pollard. Local TV station aired a story about two businessmen attacked by an owl, and the attack was caught on camera. Mike encouraged Pollard to push ahead with the theory, maybe even planted the theory in his head, I wonder. One of the victims was Chris Cox, who attended the news conference. Pollard showed him autopsy photos that made him question whether Kathleen's injuries were caused by a poker or a blow poke. Cox said, in my opinion, something does not add up. photos that made him question whether Kathleen's injuries were caused by a poker or a blow poke. Cox said, in my opinion, something does not up. I believe an owl can do some serious damage.

Shut the fuck up, Cox. Cox was not badly wounded. He didn't bleed all over the place. Come on, Cox. Fuck is wrong with these global people. DA David Sacks said, it still seems to us that this is a far-fetched theory to say the least. To me, it's not consistent with all the evidence of the scene. Pollard told the news and observer, People question why I spend so much time on this case. But I spent a lot of time uncovering evidence indicating that Mr. Peterson is an innocent man. I've assembled what I believe is a very credible and truthful description of what actually happened to Mrs. Peterson and her demise.

I picture him wearing a fucking owl hat when he's saying this like a weird owl costume type situation and looking very stoic just wearing a ridiculous owl costume. Michael Peterson told the news at Observer in 2021 that man has suffered more than anybody except me during my trial and afterwards. Has he? He was ridiculed, dismissed as a as a lunatic and then it came out. Oh, wait a minute. There might be more to this He said about the owl theory. I was in prison when Paul sent me a photograph for the autopsy with owl talents When I saw that's how he talks in my mind like kind of like the fucking rich guy on oh my god, Gilligan's Island When I saw those talents my god It's been so long. I thought of this, not my notes, but since that episode about the fucking guy with a fake identity who

is a peach melba kind of knight, whoever that guy was. He reminds me of that. When I saw those talons, my god, had that been brought up at the trial there probably would have been reasonable doubt. Would there have been? David Rudolph also said he would have presented the owl theory at retrial to establish reasonable doubt. Some think the owl followed Kathleen into the house, continued to attack her, but Michael said, I was there. I saw no feathers. Todd saw no feathers. EMS emergency people, they saw no feathers. Also, Mike, no one ever saw Kathleen be attacked. No one heard her scream out in the yard, as one would do if they were being attacked by a vicious owl assassin.

Why wasn't there a bunch of blood in the yard from this unprecedented owl attack? Well, there wasn't. There were a few droplets. Nothing more. On a True Crime subreddit, I was checking other people's opinions and too thick for this posted, ecologists chiming in, this is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Owls 1. Rarely end up in houses.

Two, rarely attack people. Three, could not possibly inflict that damage. Try to find a single fatal owl attack on an adult human. I did. Too thick for this. I couldn't. And on the same subreddit, RadRazer28 posted, blood spatter on the interior of Michael Peterson's shorts

and fractured thyroid cartilage that would have occurred via strangulation are what dispel the owl theory Michael Peterson killing his wife. Not an owl is how you know an owl didn't do it Yeah, I'm not buying the barred owl theory for a second moving up Well this time I did kind of fall for it before Moving on now right after one more thing about the barred owl. Did you know that barred owls are the descendants of dinosaurs? Yeah, moving on for real now. After nearly eight years in prison, the defense finally filed a successful appeal. December 14th, 2011, Michael Peterson was granted a new trial because of misconduct by former SBI agent Dwayne Deaver, who gave testimony about blood spatter at the crime

scene. He fucked up. Damn it, Dwayne! Judge Orlando Hudson ruled that Deaver had misled him in the jury trial. The decision was made at the end of a multi-day hearing about the Peterson murder trial. At the time of the trial, Deaver was an 18-year veteran of the FBI. Then in 2010, the NNO released a series of like a report about a series of problems with the state agency and reporters wrote that Deaver was, quote, the SBI's go-to man on blood stain pattern analysis.

By that time, Deaver had been the principal training officer for 22 years, even written a training program and policy and procedure manual for blood spatter analysis. However, per the NNO, Deaver had a degree in zoology from NC State, had completed just two courses in blood stain analysis. He was also never a member of any professional blood stain analysis organization. And that lack of formal education and blood spatter analysis was seen as very problematic because jurors in the case viewed Deaver's testimony is essential to their deliberations. Particularly his opinion that a blood stain on the crotch of Mike Shorts could only have gotten there

during an assault. Old Duane is fired from the FBI in 2011 after his work is now questioned in several cases. Both Deaver and the SBI came under fire in 2010 when a man named Greg Taylor was exonerated after spending 17 years of his life in prison. In 1993, Taylor had been convicted of murdering a woman in Raleigh. His SUV was found near the crime scene. At his trial, Deaver testified that Taylor's SUV gave chemical indications for the presence of blood. And Taylor was sentenced to life in prison.

But when the SBI was investigated, it was discovered the Dever, quote, withheld results of more sophisticated blood tests that yielded negative results for the presence of blood on that SUV. So fucking Dwayne, you piece of shit. An independent audit of the SBI's serology unit called into question the labs work in 229 criminal cases,

including five cases classified as the most troubling, and Dever worked all five of those most troubling cases. And strangely, all five of those cases involved a guy getting his dick slammed in the door and severed off! I have no idea what those cases involved. Greg Taylor was exonerated in February 2010, making him the first person to be exonerated through the North Carolina Innocence Inquiry Commission, a state agency that reviews cases of potential wrongful convictions. Deaver was in fire because of his record of withholding evidence and a barrage of controversial

cases in critical media reports. This of course led to questions about his work in the Peterson case. The NNO reported in December of 2011 that according to SBI records, Deaver misrepresented agency policy exaggerated his training and experience under oath when he was certified as an expert witness in the Michael Peterson trial. Mike's defense team challenged the conviction, arguing the Deaver lied under oath at trial. An emotion for appropriate relief filed February 15th, 2011 which led to the hearing. David Rudolph wrote, Deaver's had a long-standing pattern and practice of fabricating and culpatory evidence,

concealing exculpatory evidence, tailoring his testimony to whatever the prosecutor wanted or needed him to say, and committing perjury in order to advance his primary goal, to secure the conviction of the person on trial. Deaver, fucking ding-dong. At the December hearing, David Rudolph played clips of Dever testifying at trial, contradicting his statements with testimony from other FBI agents, experts, and the FBI's files. He claimed he had worked 500 bloodstain cases, roughly, written about 200 reports, testifying, I don't know, 60 cases. But then, FBI Assistant Director Eric Hooks, head of internal investigations, told the

court, no, you'd only written 47 reports in your entire career. Dever also claimed at trial that he was trained by SBI agent David Spittel, a blood spain analyst. But when interviewed for the internal investigation, Spittel said he could not recall training or mentoring Dever at all. Dwayne, you're a fucking idiot. Experts also said Dever's blood spatter experiments were unscientific and designed to produce answers that he wanted. Judge Orlando Hudson said in his decision is a new trial required because of due process violations and the perjured testimony. The answer is yes.

Hudson worried Deaver had given false testimony. Another win for the defense was the fact that prosecutors would not be able to introduce evidence from Mike's computer now, which showed he had contact with numerous male escorts. Court of Appeals ruled back in 2006 that Judge Hudson shouldn't have allowed that evidence in trial at the first place. Dwayne Deaver attempted to get his job back by appealing his firing, but in 2014 an administrative judge found that the allegations against him were just cause for dismissal. Fuck you Dwayne.

Hope you're washing dishes these days in the back of a TGI Friday somewhere and living out of a fucking Honda Civic, you dipshit! Mike Peterson was now a free man, finally able to spend time with his family, although he was still under house arrest, pending a retrial. He was released on December 16th, 2011 on a $300,000 bail, required to wear an ankle monitor. He did an interview with the News and Observer that month, and he denied killing his wife.

You know, of course. He said, of course not. No, absolutely not. I love Kathleen. I still love Kathleen. Said he regretted not getting on the stand at his trial to dispute statements about him, his marriage, and Kathleen, saying sometimes Kathleen was trashed. They made her out to be this poor, pitiful person. I wish I had said some things in defense of Kathleen."

He's a great guy. During his time in prison, Mike had taught classes for inmates trying to earn their GEDs. He revealed he wrote almost every day of his incarceration saying about prison life, about the stories, the injustices. That is a completely broken system, the North Carolina prison system. It would take over five years for there to be a resolution in the staircase retrial. In February of 2017, Mike and his defense were able to avoid trial by reaching a plea agreement with the prosecution. State wanted to avoid another expensive trial. On February 22nd, 2017, Mike did an interview with Associated Press reporter Martha Wagner, head of the hearing.

She asked why he would take a plea deal if he was innocent. And Mike answered, Deaver's gone, but that atmosphere, that culture of doing anything possible to convict someone is still there. We now know that the police and district attorneys will do anything to convict a person. And once they've done that, they're never going to back up. David Rudolph then chimed in, revealed the defense team discovered a note from former ADA free to black to medical examiner Deborah Radish. Radish had told Black she did not initially believe blunt force trauma was Kathleen's cause of death

but she had to put it down because chief medical examiner John Butz told her to. That is bad. The defense also found a fax from Kansas Zamparini to the medical examiner thanking her for explaining why Michael was guilty. Okay, all right. Bottom line for Michael is he could not trust the system again. He expressed his belief that if it hadn't been for Greg Taylor's case, he would still be in prison. And yeah, that's some shitty stuff there for sure. February 24, 2017, Michael Peterson, now 72, enters an Alford plea to reduce charge of manslaughter.

The Alford plea allows the defendant to maintain their innocence while also acknowledging that the prosecutors have enough evidence to convict them at trial. As he walked into court that day, he told journalists he was feeling good. He was given the opportunity to speak at the hearing but chose not to. He was sentenced to a maximum of 86 months in prison, but he'd already served 98 months and he was given credit for that. So he was free to go. At the conclusion of the hearing, the staircase documentary team spoke to Judge Orlando Hudson to get his thoughts about the original trial. And he said, I thought

the jury got the case fairly, which meant that they got the evidence that both parties wanted them to have. Over the years though, you can see how time and more examination of evidence that did come in, how maybe it wasn't without prejudice. And so if you get a chance to do it over again, there were things that I would have changed. You know, I think over time the introduction of the death in Germany was very prejudicial to the defendant. I thought that all the homosexual evidence, however it was used, would have been unduly prejudicial to the defense and probably should have not come into evidence. I disagree, right? The homosexual affairs. I think it's, I don't think it's about

homosexual, I think it's about cheating. Cheating on a woman who left her first husband because he had an affair. And that speaks to a possible motive. Because if Kathleen had found out what Micah was doing, you know, every fucking one of her good friends and family members who were questioned said she would have left him. And if she would have left him around the time she had died, he would have in all likelihood been fucking ruined financially. But if she were to die in an accident and he would get that seven figure life insurance payout and her stock options that pushed the total to two million dollars, well now he's set for life. So I think it does matter. And I think him being the last known person to see two different women who fell down a staircase covered in their blood, two

different women whose deaths he stood to financially gain from. I think that matters because what are the fucking odds, as I've said so many times, of him having nothing to do with either death? What are the odds he just, oh, he just happened to be there when these two women died in very identical or nearly identical, very rare, very weird ways. Come on, that motherfucker, this proven storyteller, he did it. I know the trial was not perfect, but I think he got away with tumors. Michael spoke to the press after the hearing saying he was a victim forced to seek justice at a quote crooked table where law enforcement stacked the odds against him. He announced plans to travel out of the state to visit grandkids, brothers, daughters,

not a sister because she thinks he's a piece of shit. Durham DA Roger Echols said in a prepared statement, it's always been and remains today the state's position that Michael Peterson is responsible for the death of Kathleen Peterson. Prosecutors decided to enter into this plea agreement after conducting an extensive review of the physical and testimonial evidence. It is clear that some evidence that was admitted during the 2003 trial may no longer be available or deemed admissible at a second trial. This decision was made after careful consideration and in consultation with the family of Kathleen Peterson. It is my sincere hope that the final disposition of this case

provides a measure of justice as they continue to honor Kathleen's memory. Kathleen's sister, Candice Amparini, she said at the plea hearing, The words Alford plea, they're meaningless. Alford Schmalford means nothing, means guilty, means nothing, means guilt. You're pleading to voluntary manslaughter. You will be treated as guilty for murdering my sister Kathleen and you will be a convicted felon forever. This hearing today is as close to justice as anything I think can be found."

After the plea hearing, Kaitlyn Atwater's lawyer, Jay Trehe, filed a complaint keeping the $25 million wrongful death judgment against Mike. With interest accumulated since 2008, he now owed her another 30 million dollars. Jesus Christ. Peterson had claimed for years that he didn't have the money to pay Caitlin, but if Mike were to publish another book, which he later did, Behind the Staircase, was published in 2019 and Beyond the Staircase, published in 2020, they're supposed to supposed to get some money or she is not sure if she's gotten any of that money she did get half her mom's life insurance policy and her biological dad got the other half Michael never got a cent part of the reason he lost his

precious house not sure how much he paid for the home initially but he listed it in 2003 for 1.175 million Then the price was reduced substantially months later to 975,000. Then it sold months later for 640,000. About half of asking. Damn. Probably not enough to cover what he still owed in the mortgage. I don't know. Mike Peterson's ex-wife Patty would then die of a heart attack July 8th, 2021 at the age of 78. Patty and Mike lived together yet again for two years before her death. Clayton Peterson told the news and observer they were companions, they took care of one another. And maybe Mike needed a cheap place to stay. And there's some other stuff that's going to come up

here before this suck is over. Former attorney David Rudolph revealed Mike was living in a ground floor apartment with no stairs, which was an important accommodation request for him. Yeah, I bet he didn't want to live near another staircase. Too tempting. Might push a third woman down it. Michael Peterson turned 80 years old in 2023. He provided his thoughts and reflections on the trial 20 years later. He said about the sensational aspects of the case, you have these three key ingredients,

sex, money, and murder. When is this fucking thing going to it goes on and on and on? He was asked if he wanted retribution. He said anger doesn't do you any good. It's wasted One of the first things I learned in prison was don't let anyone get in your mind if they get in your mind they own you Second thing I learned in prison was careful with your dick. Don't get it fucking slammed in your cell door. No He said uh, there's no point in holding grudges. Who does that harm? I told myself, this is a shit hand you've been dealt, you're in prison. Okay, you're not getting out. That's all there is to it. What are you

gonna do now? What do you think I'll just go on with my life? I'm not gonna beat my head against the wall, I'm not gonna scream. Who gives a shit? It's not gonna change, so you do the best you can. He also spoke about his feelings on the Alford plea, saying, "...all of us, the family, were talking on the sofa. Clayton said, it's a crooked table. Don't do it. Would I be acquitted?

Yeah. And if I'm acquitted, what does that mean? Oh, that means you're free. I'm free as it is right now. Hell, I might be convicted and go back to prison. I doubt it, but there is something you... is that something you really want to risk? I was 74. Did I want to put the kids through that again? It was just horrifying.

Mike explained that he was doing well financially before he went to prison, but now because of Caitlin Atwater's wrongful death suit, any money he would make would go directly to her. And Michael said about his 2020 novel, Behind the Staircase, Grand Central Publishing bought that one for a fair amount of money, but I had to turn it down because I know that if I do get the money I'm gonna have to give it to Caitlin. God damn it that's not gonna happen. It was kind of like a dick move right? Your book still gets out there why not give some money to Kathleen's daughter if you loved her so much. Mike added I don't need anything. It'd be nice to sell the books but I have enough money. I have my

marine retirement to my Social Security. I can live comfortably. It would be nice to sell the books, but I have enough money. I have my marine retirement to my social security I can live comfortably. It's okay. I'm not rich. God knows by any means. Older you get what do you need? What are the what are you gonna take with you? Nothing. So what's the point? I'll be 80 years old two or three months What do I really care when you get down to it? My time is so limited I want to concentrate on the things that I can do like riding or being with the people I love Just last month, April of 2025, Michael was interviewed for letstalkdurham.com website that describes itself as an independent slightly satirical stream of interviews with artists, entertainers, and culture changers in North Carolina

and around the world. They say we commissioned local artists to illustrate and photograph for us thus directly contributing to the local community especially its artists. And Michael was asked, we noticed many important women in your life have died. What's your stance on that? Is it some kind of curse? Mike said, does lightning strike the same place twice? Turns out it does. And then, and I love this so much, they asked him, a few years ago, Ivana Trump fell down a staircase and died. Were you there? He simply said, no.

Let's get out of here. Good job, soldier. You've made it back. Barely. So what do you think? Do you think that Michael killed Kathleen? Do you think it was fair to allow evidence of his infidelity and bisexuality to be introduced into the trial? Do you think it was fair to allow the circumstances of the suspicious death of Elizabeth Ratliff in Germany to be introduced into the trial? Do you think a fucking barred owl sent Kathleen running to her weird slapstick series of falls on the stairs death. Do you think the fact that Michael Peterson was the last person seen with two women who

died suspiciously on a bloody stairwell deaths coroners felt were the result of them being bashed on the head, deaths he financially benefited from, should have been enough combined with a bit more of circumstantial evidence to convict Michael Peterson and Kathleen's murder even if the murder weapon was never definitively beyond a shadow of a doubt identified. I think Michael's sexuality and infidelity again speak to motive. I think the case of Elizabeth Ratliff speaks to a troubling pattern and I know I would have voted guilty if I were on that jury. He proved he had no problem telling a troubling lie, holding on to that lie for a long long time. You know if he socially benefited from it with his purple heart bullshit.

He was also living a secret life for who knows how long. He proved he has a moral compass that's not exactly rock solid when he not only stole money, a lot of money from a friend of the family when he was 39 years old, no less, one of his kids' godmothers, and then tried to get a young woman

to take the fall for that. He was connected to two different women who both took falls down the stairs that he tried to write off his accidents, even though fucking no one Fills a stairwell with that much blood from a fall The 911 call claiming Kathleen was still alive when all the dried blood spoke to her being dead for hours That's very concerning the financial problems combined with the two million dollar haul from a life insurance payout plus stock options if she dies

It's concerning and I didn't even talk about his temper He was known to get heated to get real up, have loud name-calling fights with both his first and second wives, to be controlling when it came to women. And that's in front of people. Could he in private have taken things even further? I think he could. I think he did. I think he snapped. I think Elizabeth Ratliff was gonna, you know, probably cut him out of her will. Or, you know, tell people that they were having an affair. I think Kathleen Peterson was going to leave him

over his infidelity. I think he lost his shit, killed them both in a heat of the moment crime, then calmed down, tried to cover his tracks, make it look like an accident. And finally, before we head to the takeaways, I do think you should be careful around doors. Just because I was joking. That doesn't mean you couldn't slam your dick in a door or that someone else with a dick, you know, could get their dick slammed in

the door. So hard, you know, it gets severed clean off. So be careful around doors, you guys. Time Shack Top 5 Takeaways Number one, Mike and Kathleen Peterson were a well-to-do couple who lived in a historic mansion in Durham, North Carolina. Kathleen was a corporate executive, very successful one. Mike a successful author. The two had a blended family with children from both their first marriages. Everybody who knew them said they were happy and rarely argued, but prosecutors argued that Kathleen was completely unaware Mike was having affairs with men, so they didn't have the

marriage people thoughts and they were having serious money problems. Number two, the prosecution presented evidence against Mike that was later ruled prejudicial and improper. They showed the jury hardcore pornographic images found on his computer. It was a peon to male escort who communicated with Mike in the late summer of 2001 in an effort to prove their case to the jury. In 2006, North Carolina Court of Appeals ruled the judge should not have allowed that evidence to trial. Number three, the prosecution also allowed to present evidence of an earlier suspicious death. Back in November of 1985, when Mike and his family were living in Germany, one of the many times they were there, their close friend Elizabeth Ratliff

suffered an intracranial hemorrhage and fell to her death on the stairs, her death considered natural initially, until Mike is charged with murder many years later and German authorities reopen the case in light of similarities to Kathleen Peterson's death and the fact that he was believed to have been the last one to see Elizabeth alive and now a coroner rules that Elizabeth was murdered. Still Mike never charged in Elizabeth's death. Number four Mike Peterson granted a retrial in December of 2011 after the court determined an expert witness fucking Dwayne misled the judge and jury at the 2003 trial. Mike Peterson chose to end his legal battle by making an or taking an Alford plea, which

allowed him to maintain his innocence while acknowledging the prosecution had enough evidence to convict him if he were to go to trial. Mike felt he could no longer put his faith in the criminal justice system and he wanted his freedom even if it remained, even if he remained a convicted felon. Also, he probably didn't want to be tried again because, you know, he fucking murdered his wife. Number five, new info. I was just about to have this additional info be Mike Peterson's prison romance.

Let me share some of those details and then I'll share what my real number five is. So I snuck another one in here. From 2004 all the way to 2017 Mike Peterson was in a relationship with Sophie Brunet an acclaimed French filmmaker who edited the staircase documentary. She was inspired to reach out to him after he was sentenced to life without parole on October of 2003. I fucking did not understand why she did this. Still don't. Didn't understand when I first watched this. She wrote to Vanity Fair. I never wanted to write to him before that. The sentence was shocking to me.

In France there isn't anything like life without parole. Weather fucking should be. Not to mention the death penalty. To me it was like putting someone alive in a coffin. I was affected by the cruelty and what I saw as a miscarriage of justice. So I decided to write Michael to offer to send him some books, which I did relentlessly while he was in jail. Mike who is 17 years older than Sophie,

responded to her letters. They established a regular correspondence between Paris and North Carolina which had turned into an emotional affair. After a year of writing back and forth, Sophie traveled to North Carolina to meet Mike for the first time and Mike wrote that Sophie was attractive, intelligent, funny, fluent in English with the most charming accent. She put me at ease immediately with an amusing description of the Red Roof Motel in Rocky Mount where she was staying. Sophie clarified that she actually didn't stay at that motel during her first visit and that, and I love this, she said,

"'Being accurate is not Michael's cup of tea.'" Oh, it sure isn't. They continued writing. She visited him three to four times per year. They also exchanged phone calls. She believed in Mike's innocence, sought to prove it to others. She gave thousands of dollars towards Michael's

legal fund and pushed the owl theory. She continued to visit Mike after he was released on house arrest in late 2011. They discussed living together in Paris once he got out of prison. And at one point, Michael told his kids he was planning on moving to France. But as Michael wrote, the dream grew ugly tentacles. I was 73, didn't speak French, couldn't afford Paris and had no friends there." Sofie wrote, Michael was not the man he had pretended he wanted to be. Thought that was interesting. Another Insight News character. And that was originally going to be, again, my fifth takeaway. But then right before I sat down to record, as I was finishing polishing up the research, the gods of the YouTube algorithm sent me

a gift and I was recommended a video posted by Mike's son, Todd Peterson on December 19th, 2021. Patty, his mom, right? Died back in July of 2021. Check this out. Todd opens the video by saying this. I'm literally about to have the worst experience of my entire life. I came out to call the cops cops my father for the murder of my mother. Patricia Peterson. Now today realized that the motivation was money. Just like I now believe Kathleen. I didn't really realize it all until I tried to break my sobriety.

My own father tried to break months of variety. That's actually how I figured out he was a serial killer. Okay, so that's what he says there. He thinks his dad killed his mom now, a third woman. Well, at least with him, he thinks at least two women, his mom and Kathleen. And then at the 2 minute and 52 second mark, he says this. Okay, I didn't go to my mom's funeral about four months ago. She was my best friend. I was with her

When she the day she died, I was with her when she died my father Waited three hours. Well, my mom was having a heart attack didn't call the cops when I came over within seven minutes I called the cops or me nine one one My mom would be alive today for one for my father. Anyways It's all about this, man. About the insurance. When they got divorced, my mom ended up with all the stuff my dad wanted. It's unbelievable. So petty. You know, my dad wanted the... Wiping through her will, back up here. My dad wanted like this, like George V teapot. Sterling silver teapot.

It's not a lot. I mean, my mom probably has a couple hundred thousand, maybe half a million of artwork. Maybe a million, but more importantly, the easy to see stuff is this called silverware. It's easy because it's silver and it should be there. All gone. All gone. Obviously down the street. Another conversation I'll talk about the bizarre behavior of my father immediately

after my mother's death and him taking all this stuff. I'll stop there and just summarize. Michael was living again with his ex, his first wife, when she died. He was the only person with her when she started to have a heart attack. And Todd is not only saying that he did not call for an ambulance, but that he had been stealing some of her shit and selling it while he was living with her, is what I take from that. And also wanted her to die so he could sell the rest of her shit, such as this artwork that Todd estimates could be worth up to a million dollars. I mean, that's just his his opinion.

But but still fucked up. No definitive proof again. Nothing that would probably see him convicted of murder in a court. But man, he's around three women when they died now, three women he was either living with or at least managing their finances for, whose deaths he either definitely benefited from financially or very likely benefited from financially. His fucking sister thinks he's a murderer. His stepdaughter thinks he's a murderer. Now one of his sons thinks he's a murderer. Todd has also said that Kathleen was his mom's best friend in this video.

He says was his mom's best friend when his dad began to pursue her. What a fucking narcissist to pursue his wife's best friend. And there are rumors that Michael was also fucking Liz as I mentioned briefly earlier when she died. Man, fuck Michael Peterson. No fucking way. There's all this speculation, all these accusations that Reed is very credible, and he's just some unlucky innocent guy. Gosh dang. Aw shucks. Never hurt anybody. Now in my mind, he is definitely a pathologically-lined, self-serving narcissistic murderer,

and it would be poetic and amazing if he were to accidentally take a very bloody, fatal fall down the stairs, sometime soon, or better yet, if he slammed his dick in a door, severed it, panicked, and then fell down the stairs and died. Time Shuck Top 5 Takeaways The staircase murders have been sucked. Thank you to the Bad Magic Productions team for all the help in making Time Suck.

Thank you to the Queen of Bad Magic, Lindsay Cummins, giving me the space to kick out this content every week. Thanks to Logan Keith, helping publish this episode, designing merch for the store at badmagicproductions.com. We always got new stuff there. Thanks to Olivia Lee yet again for the initial research and thanks to the all-seeing eyes as always moderating the Cult of the Curious private Facebook page, keeping in close communication with Lindsay. Thanks to the Mod Squad making sure Discord keeps running smooth. Everyone over on the Time Suck subreddit, the Bad Medic subreddit, so many great people. And now time for this week's Time Sucker updates. Updates. Get your Time Sucker updates. This first update emailed into Bojangles at TimeSuckPodcast.com this week, comes from Kansas Sucker with a killer connection. Comes from KansasSucker with a killer connection.

From A. KansasSucker with a killer connection. Troy, last name redacted. Sent in a message with the subject line of, My mom knew the B. Tay- B. Tay? B. Tay-K? B. T. K. I would love it. That'd be kind of a weird little personality quirk if you just pronounced like T's,

like in acronyms, as Tay. Uh, gotta be careful that A. Tay- A. Tay-M, I getcha. T's like an acronyms is Tay. Gotta be careful that A-Tay-A-Tay-M I get you. Watch out for that B-Tay killer. It's kind of fun. Anyway, he wrote, greetings to the true prophet of Nimrod, fondler of Woody's front butt stump, poop scooper of good boy, good boy, butch angles and all other things sucking.

This is my first time reaching out, but I'll spare you the ego stroke. I live in a small town, about 30 minutes west of Wichita, Kansas. Ever since I listened to the episode you made about BTK, Dennis Rader, I always wondered if I knew anyone who had encountered Dennis Rader.

This last Thanksgiving, my family briefly mentioned a connection they had to BTK. BTK! But it didn't seem like a good moment to ask questions, as everybody grew tired and kind of somber. I finally grew the balls to ask my mom more about him. Turns out my great aunt used to be next door neighbors with that killer.

They shared a fence separating their backyards. That's wild. When my mom and her older sister were around 10 and 12, they used to go to their aunt's house often and play in the backyard like kids do. She told me she used to watch them through the gaps in the fence, or that he used to watch them through the gaps in the fence or that he used to watch them to the gaps in the fence and would even start conversations with her and her sister. Thankfully my great aunt

did not usually let that continue as she saw as everyone had a creepy feeling about him. I'm not sure if he was actively killing at that time it was the early 80s but there were rumors of him torturing and killing stray cats in the area during that time. Nobody in my family was surprised when the truth about the human piece of trash was uncovered. Sadly, the connection between the Raiders family and my family does not stop there. In her early adulthood, my grandmother was forced into a car, driven to an old abandoned grain silo, and raped by Dennis Raider's brother. Not sure how she escaped, as she told very few people about this incident before she passed and she never pressed charges.

Unfortunately, that's all I can give you. These types of episodes really do hit harder when somebody close to you has been personally affected by these monsters that you cover. People need to remember these victims you talk about they have families memories and dreams. I think you do a good job at portraying them as human beings rather than as a statistic. So thank you for that. Makes me sick knowing the type of thoughts that Dennis Raider must have had while watching my own mom and aunt through the fence. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. I do apologize for any poor grammar in this email as I cheated my way through high school. High school English. Thank

you for the amazing work you and the team do. You're truly an inspiration. Hope you, hope all is well. Great master sucker. Keep on sucking, Troy. Fuckin- that's wild, Troy. Yeah, what a great reminder. Right, these victims, every bit is real, with all the same kinds of hopes and dreams and desires as the people like yourself hearing these stories. They're not just numbers. And what the fuck was going on in the Raider family for Dennis and a brother to end up as pieces of shit? And yes, he was killing in all likelihood in the early 80s because he was definitely killing in the late 70s right up to 1979

And then he for sure started to kill again by 1985 So he was for sure already a serial killer who was going to kill again When he was watching your mom and your aunt playing the yards, that's creepy So glad obviously he never targeted them And And now Michael Shepherd has some dinosaur updates. You're waiting for that song, aren't you? He sent in an email with a subject line of Edward Cope stories and he wrote, hello Dan and the Bad Magic team I just wanted to share a story about Edward Cope that I heard while getting my bachelor's of science in biology back in the dim and misty. I was doing undergrad research in

genetics and herpetology and often enjoyed the odd conversations had by the professors I worked with. Once when all of us were together they told me about Edward Cope. He was renowned for the volume of his published works but his rivalry with Marsh was often presented as the way to not do things in academia. That said, apparently he had quite the reputation as a ladies man, and faced with impotence in his later years, he was rumored to have tried a, shall we say, novel solution. According to the story, he took to injecting formalin into his non-functioning parts. I can only hope this is not true since formalin is a carcinogen, and in addition to hastening his demise, it would have also left the affected part without sensation, which rather defeats the purpose of my opinion.

We used to joke about what we'd find if he were to be exhumed. However, a skeleton sporting a well-preserved direction. I did some gradual work in virology afterwards, but moved away from academia and now work in healthcare and clinical engineering. But I still enjoyed going down the rabbit hole on any given topic. Fortunately, my education time was not a complete loss as I met this Foxy smart brunette in cell biology class and we've been married 27 years next month. I came into Time Suck and Bad Magic late into the podcast but it could not have come in a more opportune time. I was plagued with a variety

of issues, a knee injury and a detached retina that ended my time in martial arts, followed by a lovely bout with cancer. Damn. Then losing both my parents in successive years. It was a rough period and finding time suck and more recently scared to death provided me with a distraction and a reason to smile when I very much needed both. That said, I'm in reasonable health now, have been cancer-free for a year, and I'm sure it has a lot to do with all the WHIPPLE. I've been drinking. Fuck you. Fuck your cancer. Drink Whipple. I became a space lizard and enjoy the odd looks I get while wearing my t-shirt. Also recently became a Robert with Scared to Death and starting to work my way through the back catalog.

Being a peeper with an active imagination who also experiences extremely vivid dreams. I limit those two times during the day. Maybe I need Lindsay to give me a line of fuzzy socks and crystals or a line on. Yeah. Thank you for all you do. Bad magic has been a bright spot in an otherwise dark time. You've built a truly amazing community. Just wanted to tell you that your hard work is very much appreciated. No apologies for the length of girth. Keep up the amazing work. To be at a five stars would not change a thing. Your loyal Robert Lizard space fan, Michael. Michael, thank you for the kind words.

And yeah, thanks for the offer. I didn't read that you sent very generous, very, what is going on with me? Very generous. If I don't reach out, it's only because of time constraints. More importantly, sorry for the loss of your parents and for the recent tough COVID, but glad you're cancer free. And also 27 years with your very own Lusifena.

Hail Lusifena. I hope she's sciencing her cool ass off or her cool ass off somewhere. I'm having problems with cadence today. And let us both hope that we never become so desperate for a boner war that we shoot a formaldehyde solution into our cocks. Hail Nimrod. And now one more from very funny comedic sucker Will Burmson. He sent a message with the subject line of LA LUZ DEL MUNDO! personal story and He wrote hey Dan and the time suck team. Holy shit this episode blow my mind I mean all that were great, but this one really blew my mind

I saw the title light of the world sex cult But not until you actually said it in Spanish did my mind connect it all. I graduated from Bader University in 2009, my junior year there. I lived in a two-story duplex at 17th and Bagme. I was one lot away from the corner. What building was on that corner? La luz del pinche mundo, cabron! The real deal. I'll attach a Google Street View screenshot. And boy, let me tell you, we always knew it was weird as fuck, but we did not know the full story. While living

there, we did think it was very strange that they would meet for seemingly, meet yeah, for seemingly all day. What was weirder is that after a night of drunken college shenanigans, we would get home at 2 in the morning and they were still worshiping. Lights on, hands raised to heaven, singing in the middle of the God forsaken night. They were also just playing weird. One time they were having an event while I was living on the upper level and they brought a pinata. But they didn't have anywhere to hang it so they just came up to our upstairs patio and hung it. Didn't knock to ask if that was okay.

Didn't do it while we were away. Didn't even ask us if we wanted to take a whack at that colorful burrow. Literally, we were home and walked out to a couple men in our patio, and a couple kids swinging a stick near our cars. When we asked them, they didn't apologize. They just said, it's okay, we're almost done. What? I guess when everything is God's kingdom,

you get to smack a holy pinata whenever the heaven you want. Now as college kids, we did a number of questionable, but honestly pretty damn funny things looking back. For example, when we would have house parties and needed to pee my buddies and I would stand in our patio, pee off the side and have a competition to see who could get their pee stream all the way under the church's parking lot. Not to brag but I had a pretty damn strong stream my friend. For a long time looking back I felt pretty bad about that because it feels uh feels disrespectful but I chalked up to being in a douche canoe with college student thanks to you showing me the lose I feel so much more justified so thank you huge

burden of guilt is now off of my brain you demand in you might recognize my last name because of memory serves you interviewed my sister for the immigration suck since her husband is an immigrant and a and a right fucking great dude one of the best friends one of my best friends now. I'm also a stand-up comic who features for Bark Entertainment. Oh yeah, they have a lot of clothes. If you have five minutes, check out this if you want. He sent me a video link on YouTube. Thanks for everything you do and the team do. You're the lose of my lunes every single week. You've been there as I've washed about 5,000 dishes in my life and for that I'll be forever grateful. PS, if you read this on the show, thank you and also please give a little shout out to

my sister Angela and my best friend Colby, Steve and Charles who I got hooked on the suck a few years back telling me he can still fuck himself for the sewing machine. You know what I mean. Best. Will. Will, thank you for sharing a personal connection to La Luz del Mundo! Still worshiping at two in the morning. That's a lot of worship. That's too much. I think God's probably okay with his creations not kissing his ass into the early

morning hours and maybe instead going out to enjoy the life he gave them. Congrats on the strong stream. I think my stream is weakening. It definitely is in a saddening pain. Maybe I'm just not drinking enough beer these days. I watched your clip and left a comment on your YouTube video there. Very funny, man. Seriously. Your pharmacist joke had me fucking legit LOL-y. And man, you've got some great hair. Sorry if that's weird, but good for you. Enjoy those luscious locks and you just keep crushing out there on the road. Glad your fam is good. Glad you are good.

Hail Nimrod. Thanks Time Suckers. I needed that. We all did. Thank you for listening to another Bad Magic Productions podcast. Be sure and rate and review this show if you haven't already. Please and thank you. Scared to death and Time Suck each week. Short sucks. Nightmare fuel. On the Time Suck and Scared to Death podcast feeds twice a month. Please, do not push anyone down the stairs this week because you need some money. Declare bankruptcy. I don't know, start over if you have to.

Take a second job. Take a third job. Flee the country. Start over somewhere. Hopefully somewhere that still has cell coverage or Wi-Fi so you can keep on sucking. TARGET SEVERED! Ad Magic Productions Have you accidentally slammed your dick in a door hard enough to sever it? Have you ever slammed someone else's dick in the door hard enough to sever it? Have you ever first slammed your dick in a door hard enough to sever it, and then

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