EPRA CEO & President Cliff Hacking: Toronto Mike'd Podcast Episode 1994
00:00 Welcome listeners to Toronto Mike. I'm Cliff Hacking. I'm now in my fifth year of sponsoring as our organization, Toronto Mike. We're really pleased to be working with Mike. And I got to say, you know, there are some amazing guests that come on. So if you're not listening, you should be. It is just a great place to pick up information. I was listening to the Ron James interview just last night, actually. Really an amazing guy, some troubles that he's had recently in terms of, career and whatever, but he's actually playing downtown this week. So just lots of great stuff and great guests over the years and always interesting. So I'm pleased to be here and recycle your electronics.ca. Welcome to episode 1,994 of Toronto Mike. An award-winning podcast. Proudly brought to you by Great Lakes Brewery. Order online at Great Lakes Beer.com for free local home delivery in the GTA.
01:24 Palma Pasta. Enjoy the taste of fresh, homemade Italian pasta and entrees from Palma Pasta in Mississauga and Oakville. Visit palma Pasta.com for more. Fusion Corpsohn Nick Aienis. He's the host of Building Toronto Skyline and Mike and Nick, two podcasts that you ought to listen to. Recycle My Electronics.C.A. Safe, secure recycling for residents, businesses, and the environment. Ready to recycle?
01:56 Bring it! And Ridley Funeral Home, Pillars of the community since 1921. Joining me today, returning to Toronto Mike, it's E-P-R-A-C-E-O and president, Cliff. Hacking. Welcome back, Cliff. It's always good to see you. Good to see you, Mike. It's really good to be back again. We really enjoy doing this every year. Earth Week, Earth Month, an important time for the environmental messages, but it's also just good to get up with you. No, anytime. As far as I'm concerned, every month is Earth Month. You know that, Cliff. I'm out there cycling, you know, reducing my carbon footprint, doing my part for Good Mother Earth.
02:41 It's important. And cycling, I have not done as much of this year as I have in the past. but I'm still getting out. I believe to timestamp this conversation, as we speak, it is Tuesday morning, this is October 13, 2026. I believe some hardworking people are busy ripping out some of the bluer bike lane in South Etobico as we chat cliff hacking. There's supposed to be, Mr. Ford has kept good to his promise. They're coming out.
03:10 And I am a biker, but I have to say the bluer street area was the wrong place to put them from my perspective. My follow-up, because if I didn't ask this follow-up, the Legion of Toronto Mike Fanatics would be unsubscribing right now, but where would you have put them? Well, we already have quite an extensive list all the way along. If you go along Annette and DuPont, they've done a nice job along there. West of Jane, though.
03:34 West of Jane? It's a great question, West of Jane. You know, I think that you're going to have to go with some of the side streets, and it'll make it more of a meander, and it'd have to be some signage that would go with it. I understand that. Okay, so a little meander, and we'll do that, and then we'll let those residents complain to Doug Ford when that happens.
03:54 I live in one of those neighborhoods. They can come on by. Yeah, so I actually will tell you, in all honesty, I purposely meander. Like, I'm lucky enough I don't have, like, I'm not working downtown and I've got to punch a clock or something. So most of my rides are kind of joyful experiences, and I will intentionally meander around your neighborhood.
04:17 But I do, I will say, I do like the fact that we had that bluer bike lane west of Jane. And I do not know a great alternative. But again, I'm pro, I am personally pro meandering, but I don't have that be at work by 8.30 a.m. That many, many, many Torontoians have to deal with. One of the roots that I take is I'll go through the old mill. If you go the back routes through the old mill
04:40 and then down to the Humber River, there's a nice trail along the Humber River that can take you down and you can cut off at various points. Great trail. So I enjoy that quite a bit. And even just the up and down the Humber River, there's a nice path that goes kind of Dundas all the way down to the lakeshore. And so all of that works. And then there's some nice side streets that go up, you know, the kind of the Kingsway area up through there. Okay.
05:01 So amazing. Fellow cyclists, we got to get you out next summer, though. It sounds like this summer you were more tennis than cycling. Am I close? A lot of tennis. A lot of tennis. How's the tennis game going? for you. Improving. So we went through a bit of a dip and we're, we seem to be back on the rise.
05:18 So, okay, because shout out to FOTM, Steve Leggett and other listeners who, whenever you're on, they like to tell me that they, they see your name on like tennis tournament. I guess there's, I don't know, postings or whatever. They recognize your name from the tennis circuit. Okay. So you're a no one, you're a known entity in Toronto's tennis community. I wouldn't go that far. Okay, so we've talked many times, and again, we're going to do a little reset here as we catch up, and you know how I feel about recycle my electronics.ca and your support. You mentioned five years off the top. So do you check that out, five years? We've been sponsoring here for five. This is the fourth time that I've been here.
05:57 And yes, I checked out. That's amazing. So listen, you're now a solid third place. Great Lakes Brewery has the lead. They're at, I think, 11 years, which is amazing. and then Palma Pasta is like a second place. And then Recycle My Electronics.com. I honestly can't imagine, you know, doing an intro and having a conversation with someone like Ron James.
06:16 And I'm going to ask you in a moment about episode 2000, which is like imminent. It's coming up. But I can't imagine doing the show without giving love to recycle my electronics.com. Like, thank you very much from the bottom of my heart. You're welcome. It's, uh, we really enjoy it. As I say, I listen myself. Um, so it's not like we just do this for, you know, for the, the sport or for the, uh,
06:37 the advertisement that we get. I do listen and I do find that, I mean, you go back to some of the other guests that you've had over the years. You know, basketball players, you know, like just amazing, just people from around the community that you'd never even think about
06:52 and all of a sudden you're learning things about the city and our life that you wouldn't otherwise. Love to hear. Did you hear recently, because you said you listened to Ron James, so you have heard. I have adjusted the messaging
07:04 when it comes to recycle my electronics. dot C. And it took a little bit because I had gone years with this one type of messaging. And then I did a change. And I realized, oh, like, I just had that, like, tattooed on my cranium. And I was just pulling it out. Like the synapses were firing. It was coming out. And it's like, oh, now I'm doing a pivot with a different messaging. And it did take me a few episodes to kind of iron it out. But I'm digging it now. What do you think of the new messaging for Recycle My Electronics.com. I like it. And I mean, one of the things that we're trying to do is to get people to move from just awareness, which is obviously very important, to action. And so the bring it that you use at the end is, the point of that, though, is to absolutely get people to take action, to go to their drawers and dig out those cables or that old cell phone or whatever it is and to bring it back to us. And there are many places you can bring it. We have, you know, you go to the website, you can find them by going to recycle myelectronics.com. Typing your postal code, you'll get them right away. But you can also take them to easy places where you're going to buy things. You can go to Best Buy or Staples and they will take them back as well.
08:05 Yeah, I've done this. I've gone to Recyclemyelectronics.C.A. I had a whole bunch of electronics, old laptops, and took it to Staples near Sherway, actually, and very convenient and very handy. But we'll get into RecycleMyelectronics.ca. But I'm going to ask you about something I don't think I've asked you about in the past.
08:21 What can you tell me about a welcome diversion? Now, I'm saying a welcome diversion. I'm not asking you about your walks or whatever by the Humber River. Tell me about the podcast, a welcome diversion. Well, we've been at this for a little while now. We do several of them a year. We try and focus on quality in terms of the environmental message, unlike you where there is lots to talk about.
08:47 Almost 2,000 episodes. Yeah, well, I mean, seriously, though, I mean, you have a wide range of topics that you can cover, and so it really does lend itself to a daily kind of an approach. We've taken a different approach. We want to engender quality in what we do, and so we put out podcasts the most recent, and one came out just at the end of September for the October Earth month.
09:09 And it's a session that we did with Alan Langdon, who's responsible for circular materials, which is the blue box, as you would think about it in terms of days gone by. So paper and packaging and, you know, cardboard and cans and bottles and those kinds of things. And that was your 14th episode. 14th episode.
09:26 Available now. And you can listen to a welcome diversion in all the places you can find Toronto Toronto Mike. That would be Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Google uses that as their podcast app right now. Spotify, of course, for all you Spotify heads. But wherever you listen to podcasts, you will find a welcome diversion. And I know you listen.
09:48 So I'm going to ask you a very inside Toronto mic question. But your episode 1994. So one question I have is, do you wish maybe we had done this later to get you like episode 1999 or 2000, which I think are two premium episodes? It's like any regrets that your 1994 are so close to the big 2-0-0. And also, who would you like to hear as my guest for episode 2000? Oh, that's a great question.
10:13 So, yes, if I'd have thought about it, and I wasn't thinking about the sequencing, but if I'd have thought about it, 99 or 2000, I mean, you think about Y2K and all the nonsense that went on with that. You know, a big nothing at the end of it, but. I should shelve this episode and just drop it as 1999. So, so yeah, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, that was, would have been interesting. But, you know, in terms of who you should have for 2000, wow. It's a big one, right? You know, how about this? So you remember when, so Carly Simon had a big hit with your Sovain? Yes. You probably know this. I feel like whenever someone doesn't know it and then
10:46 they learn this fact, they can't unhear it and it's a fact they'll share with everybody forevermore. But background vocals on Your Sovain, you know who's singing background vocals, right? I think James Taylor. No, good guess, because that's a very good guess. Actually, it is Mick Jagger. Oh, okay. Mick Jagger's doing background vocals on your Sauvain and once you, the second round of the chorus, you can't miss it. It's clear, clear Mick. It's funny, the first time I started listening to Slow Horses,
11:12 I know, I hear the theme thing. I read away, I said, that's Mick Jagger. Yeah, I got to go and check that. That really sounds like, man, it was. It was Mick Jagger doing that thing. Yeah, and that's a great song too. Yeah, it is still going strong in his 80s. Okay, so why am I bringing up,
11:24 what was I bringing up there? Oh, yeah, Carly Simon. So at some point there was an auction, and if the winner would get, Carly Simon would tell the winner who your so vain was about. There's a lot of speculation, is it James Taylor, a lot of people with speculation. Warren Beatty. Warren Beatty, very good one, right.
11:41 And then the winner, I don't know, somebody wanted, coughed up some big box for charity or something. And then Carly Simon told that person who your so vain is about under the condition that person couldn't tell anybody. Okay. So, and I don't know what happens should Carly pass away, but whatever, shout out to Ridley Funeral Home. But bottom line is this person is not allowed to say who it's about. And I was thinking after this recording, when I have red lights down here because we're muted, I'm going to tell you what you can expect for episode 2000 of Tronomite. All right.
12:12 Under the condition. That I won't say anything. You can't tell a soul. All right. All right. Good. So I'm going to tell. Cliff hacking, you're going to have to torture Cliff to find out what is going on.
12:23 Okay. Let's do a really strong reset because listeners have been hearing about recycle my electronics. And now they've heard. I've pivoted with my messaging because I'm a professional cliff hacking. But why don't you start with the basic question, which is who is EPRA? Because I don't want to confuse me, but I mentioned EPRA again. Who's EPRA and what is Recycle My Electronics? Well, EPRA stands for Electronic Products Recycling Association.
12:50 We're a not-for-profit. We operate across the country in every province. And the point of what we do is to take end-of-life electronics and make sure that they're properly dealt with. And so that's kind of everything from plastic and metal, ferrous and non-ferrous, to make sure it goes back into the supply chain. And from our perspective, collecting that is important, keeps it out of landfill.
13:11 In some cases, there are hazardous materials. We call them substances of concern, because that's a little more generic and a little softer in terms of not scaring people. Right. But if you go back to the past, cathode ray tubes used to have lead in them. So you would want to make sure that you got that leaded glass out and that the lead was either turned back into lead ingots or turned into something else that could be reused. And so that was one of the things that we had that was a hazard because you don't want lead in your water table or in your landfills. No, thank you.
13:42 No. So all of those things are things that we make sure get dealt with properly. And, you know, we're well above 90% in terms of what comes back to us that can be put back into products and is put back into products. And depending on the province and how it's measured, it's get you. can be 95%. I mean, there are a few things like fiber board, which will get mold in it, which you can't really do much with, but some of that we can even use as waste to energy. So, you know, those are the kinds of things that we do, and we do it across the country. Okay, amazing. Now, why is it important to recycle electronics through you guys at EPRA?
14:16 You know, do you have a proper term? I'm calling you EPRA slash recycle my electronics, but that's cumbersome. It is. Maybe just refer to you as recycle my electronics? What do you think? I do. That's what we prefer is recycle my electronics. It gets you to the website. It tells you what we do. And the reason you want to be with us is because we're not for profit. Yeah, yeah. It's going to, like, why with recycle my electronics versus somewhere else that says they'll recycle your... Well, someone else that's recycling is doing it for profitable reasons. So they're making money. Somehow or other than making money. And, you know, I'm a capitalist. Making money is a good thing. But in this particular case, it's better if you're just doing it for. for the right thing for the environment.
14:57 And you can be sure that because we audit all of the processors that we deal with, that they are actually doing the right thing with the product, that they're not sending it to a landfill, that they're not discarding things that should be recycled. And so, you know, in our primary processors, we audit every year to make sure that they're doing the right thing. And for us, that's just terribly important. And others who are in the for-profit business don't necessarily have the same ethos
15:23 in terms of how they operate. Oh, that makes complete sense. So, yeah, you know, you can make sure it's safe and secure. You can protect the health and safety of the people handling these electronics and divert that e-waste from Canadian landfills and be responsible for Mother Earth during this Earth month. Love this planet. I don't even have a second favorite planet.
15:46 Like, what's your second favorite planet? Do you have a second favorite planet? Well, they took them away, Pluto, you know? They made them go away. That's not fair. You know, you and I both raised with Pluto and then demote, just sad to demote Pluto like that. I'm with you. And I like that was named.
16:02 And I don't know, it was named after the Disney dog. I imagine it was. I imagine it was. I would imagine. I mean, we were raised with the other Pluto too. Okay. So why, like one question I get about recycle my electronics is regarding like the data and protecting the security. We all have like important information on our electronics or a lot of our electronics.
16:23 What can you say about that, Mr. Hacking? Well, I mean, we do ensure that the product that comes back to us is destroyed. You know, the reuse elements of things. So if there was a monitor, so if you don't have one sitting in your desk here because your eyesight must be very good. I got my Costco readers on. I upgraded from the Dolorama readers. Okay. For a great price.
16:45 They were like $2.35. And they do the job. But they're like, I don't know what kind of plastic that's made of, but it's so brittle it just disintegrates as you wear it. And I upgraded to these Costco, which are like, I think you've got to pay like $18. You get three of them. So a significant increase in price. But these guys, they don't disintegrate. Like, these things just work.
17:05 But that's why I'm able to tell the difference between a five and a six on this laptop. Makes a difference. And so, but a lot of people have monitors. I certainly have one at home. So I have glasses, but I don't wear them very often. And I'm fortunate that I can get away with that for the most part. Is that a vanity thing? What's going on, Cliff?
17:20 No, no, I have them. I have them and I do wear them if I'm doing a lot of, you know, spreadsheets, computer work. If I'm at it for a long time, then I will certainly wear them. But if I'm just doing email or something like that, I have a monitor. And the monitor is something that we can reuse. So we're back to the things that, in terms of how we protect the information that people have, their personal information. So we do reuse things like monitors.
17:42 So if you have a monitor on your desk and it comes back to us and it's reusable, or if the cables that came with it are reusable, then we certainly try and take that and make sure that things, are not being destroyed that could be reused. But if your personal data is on your cell phone, your computer, you've got information in there you don't want to use, we make sure that's destroyed so that it's turned back into, you know, bits and bytes and then, you know, we just kind of gets ground up
18:07 and turned into the material that we can reuse. I'm glad you mentioned monitors because I, maybe last, no, maybe a few visits ago. I had a monitor here. And it's one of those old, like, I think I had it from like 2003 or something. something like that. Like, the same thing was like 20 years old. And I made a decision to do, I went to recycle my electronics.ca, and I, that was one of the items I have dropped off at the staples by Sherway Gardens.
18:34 So I am now, you're right, I have no external monitors in this house right now. And I kind of rock, kick it with the, the MacBook screen here. I am, I will tell you, software sells hardware. I don't know if you know this, but every Apple update on this. Now aging MacBook Pro, I literally, like I like penny candles. I say a prayer to every deity. I, like I get rabbits' foots. There's a local rabbit that likes to hang around.
19:05 I go hold its paw. Is that a paw? I'm telling you every Apple update, I worry it's going to brick this thing. I'm just telling you when that does happen, I know who to trust. Yes, you do. You know where to bring it. Yes, that's for sure. I don't know how long these are supposed to last, but they're not cheap.
19:24 And I feel like in this age of AI, they're only getting more expensive because of the processor price going out. It's interesting. You know, one of the things that, so Quebec has just passed some reuse laws. And the result of that is that they have put into law that you have three years for a computer that it must last before, you know, otherwise the company that manufactured is on the hook. It's quite controversial and it's new. There are many provinces that are talking about this in terms of kind of warranty life and those kinds of things. But Quebec has moved on this.
19:58 And it'll be interesting to see what that does to the marketplace because this just came into effect. Interesting. I mentioned my dollarama readers would just disintegrate. Like poof, it would be powder in the air. There they go. You got your money's worth out of those dollarama readers. But it seems to me like with a lot of these electronics,
20:17 they give you a one-year, manufacturer warranty, but day 366, poof. Like, they've timed it so scientifically that it will live for a year. And then a year and a week, forget about it. We're going to have some
20:32 issues. Well, think about that monitor that you had for so long, because there are many that last a long, long time. And so I think that we are moving from an age of planned obsolescence to trying to get longer life out of things. And
20:48 And so I really do think that the manufacturers are working hard at trying to extend the life of things. And also to make sure that properly handled, if there are repairs that need to be made and you go to an authorized dealer, not to some guy who sits in his basement and does it in his spare time, that you know, that you can actually get things fixed. I'm of an age where we had, and you are of an age too, because I bet you're older than I am. we had the desktops and you could unscrew the back and you could buy more memory, for example, or a larger hard drive. You could put in, you could replace parts. Yes.
21:26 And now it feels like it's this blob. And if any of these things goes wrong, that blob must be recycled. And you can, back in the day, you could build your own computer. Yes. Which I have done. And I have a bill, well, I had, it's not in existence anymore, a desktop. that was built that, you know, came from various components and put together and, you know. Honestly, when I tell my kids about building these computers, they're like, what?
21:56 But I want to just add on to that to say, I went through a phase where I would build a computer and I would get Linux. The flavor of Linux I would get was called Ubuntu. Ubuntu Linux was free and it would run things like the Chrome browser. And you could do have email clients and stuff. And you could do an awful lot of what you do. Maybe if you're a gamer, forget about it. me, but my point is that you could pay, like, such a minimal cost for a high functioning machine. These are all, it's all ancient history now. We're educating the kids, but I want to
22:26 just shout out on the live stream, because we are live at live.tronomike.com. Todd Bueller is watching us live, and I see here 13 minutes ago, Todd Bueller wrote, I got a big TV and some old iPods I will be dropping off this week. It's a great service to have. And no, it's not my TV console from the 1970s. That's Todd Bueller. He's a good guy. Good to have it back. You know, Staples, Best Buy, glad to take it.
22:54 The municipalities here in Atobico, if you go up to Disco Road, they take them as well. Good, good, good, good, good. All right, so I'm going to, well, I'm going to save my gifts because I need, this is the question I get asked as well. Like, we drop all this off via recycle my electronics. We go somewhere wherever our postal code says is the closest place to drop things off. where exactly, Cliff, do the electronics go
23:18 after Todd Bueller says goodbye to that TV and those iPods? Todd, you got iPods still? That's amazing, man. Where do they go? I have an iPod that I want to get repaired, if you can believe that, because I love the music on it, and the battery has quit. And I found a place downtown that will do that. So I just need to get there.
23:36 But here's my question, because I'm hearing about, actually, Nico Stratus was on the show. You should listen. Nico Stratus made her Toronto make debut. And she talked about the re, the renaissance that the iPods are having. Like, you know, we're all taking a digital detox, but we still want to have, like, I would have rock my Sony Walkman back in the day. And you still want to have your music.
23:55 And that's one way. But I find it awfully inconvenient, like, because right now I have a phone, where is it, this Android device I'm holding right now in my hand, which still functions. So it's not going to recycle my electronics, not C8 quite yet. But, like, it will be my iPod. Like, I have the discipline to, you know, not check email if I'm just trying to, enjoy songs. But to have another device, like, tell me what's the allure of the iPod, just that it's, you don't need to have your phone with you when you're listening to music? Well, I think it's that
24:23 you don't need your phone. Sell me on it because I want to be that guy too. You also don't need a subscription, right? So if you've, if you've downloaded the music, either from CDs that you own, hopefully legally, but you know, from CDs that you own are those kinds of things. Yeah, you ripped it. Yeah, exactly. And that's fine. But what then you don't have to do is you don't have to pay for a Spotify license and you don't have to pay for whoever the services that you happen to use. I use Spotify, but you know, there's all of those that are available. YouTube
24:47 premium, whatever. Yeah, yeah, all of that. But in terms of what happens to it when we get it back, so you take your stuff to Staples, we send a truck, the truck picks it up. Okay. We take it then securely from that truck because they're bonded to make sure that there's no monkey business going on
25:03 with the stuff that's in the truck and it gets to one of our processors. A good example would be E-cycle here. They're in Mississauga. They're up on, I think it's Bren Road. I've been there a whole bunch of times. They were on Bren. Hopefully they haven't moved. They didn't move at one point. So, but anyways, it's E-Cycle and they're in Mississauga. They are used to be owned by the Martin family.
25:25 Very reputable people. Paul Martin, former prime minister. Of course. The guy who straightened out our finances and got us back on track, just a terrific man. Yeah. Worked of John Cratchian. Yeah. His two sons run the business. at that business and they actually sold it not that recently, I guess probably two or three years ago and the result
25:45 of that sale is that it's now owned by a very large Japanese company called JX and they actually take all that material and it's amazing what they do they actually get, it goes from at least things like circuit boards and things that have
26:01 any real value in them they get the rare earth minerals out of them because they have such a good process to handle us. Now there are others that do as well, but they certainly are one of the ones that we deal with across the country that does a terrific job. Cliff, I don't know if you believe in heaven and hell. That's a bigger topic, maybe over a Great Lakes bear.
26:21 But is there, if there is a hell, is there a special place in hell for people who steal the catalytic converters from second harvest trucks? Have you heard about this? There ought to be, yes. There ought to be. Yes, I did. And it's a dozen of them, too, that they've lost, so I understand. It's one thing to steal the catalytic converter under the car of the gas.
26:39 great Rob Pruse the day before he drives to Toronto to be my Paul Schaefer at the Elma combo. Okay, that's, there is a section of hell for that person. And then there's a whole wing of hell, specially designed for people who break into second harvest, which is feeding the insecure in the GTA and beyond.
26:59 And anyway, when I read that news, I know, because we mentioned Sherway Gardens a couple of times because I went to that, that staples for the Recycle MyElectronics. com. And I know that second harvest. It's like,
27:08 he's small. and North Queen, like it's right there. And I'm like, my goodness, like, imagine. It's a reprehensible thing to do. It really is. I'm all riled up here. Yeah, I, uh, we actually had a neighbor, um, who in the middle of the night, um, we, uh, we woke to find that there was a fire taking place in the driveway next to us.
27:30 And, uh, the suspicion from the fire department when they finally, you know, ended up ruining two cars and everybody thrown out of their houses and everything else was that it happened as a result of someone stealing the catalytic converter from underneath their car. And, you know, we're, you know, we're out there. I was, I managed to grab a pair of jeans and put on, but my wife was in her nightgown. And, you know, we've got the dog kind of on a, not on a leash, just on, you know, holding the collar. And, you know, it's, it's a, it is a reprehensible thing to do to steal catalytic converters, especially from Second Harvest, who does such good work.
28:06 They really do. Yeah. And my dear friend, Jordy, work. there for many years. I once dressed up as a turkey at a Loblaws downtown where I was raising money for second harvest at this time of year just before Thanksgiving one year. That was my turkey experience. All right. So you've covered some of this, but I'm hoping you'll be even a little more specific because I like it when you use those big science words. It makes you seem really, really smart. But what types of electronics can be recycled?
28:32 I need to know the specifics here. Well, and again, it changes from province to province, which is one of the challenges. In fact, one of the things that we're trying to do is to get an audience with the Canadian Council of Ministers of Environment so that we could get some harmonization in terms of what is obligated. But we'll start with the two coasts. So if you were to go to, and in fact, both coasts now are in good shape. So BC is everything with a battery in a plug.
28:58 So I don't care what you want to think about out there. And they're actually obligating. So next year, kind of, I know if it's August or October, because there's two dates we're going. live with some things. We're actually going to start collecting clothing. Light up clothes. So have you got a vest or a hat that lights up? We'll be taking the electronics out of that as well. So you think about that and then everything in between small appliances, power tools, outdoor power equipment, you know, weed whackers, you name it in BC. All of that stuff's obligated. On the East Coast,
29:29 we recently, in fact, in June of this year, Newfoundland and Labrador just did a huge expansion and have almost as many products available. PEI has been the leader down there and has all of that that we've talked about and is looking at an additional expansion in the coming year. Nova Scotia has been a leader for a long time in terms of the per capita waste that they allow people and they set targets. They want to have, and I believe it's 250 kilograms of waste per person, is the target that they have to achieve for that province.
30:07 So they want to recycle everything they can. And New Brunswick has come along as well. A New Brunswick, January 1st, announced a whole plethora of products. So the central provinces are the ones that are lagging. Saskatchewan is going live February 1st this coming year with, again, power tools, small appliances. They were the only one that didn't have cell phones. Cell phones now will be obligated in every province. And that was a legacy of SaskTel and them wanting to protect that industry and that
30:37 particular provincial entity and then realize that, you know, what recycling cell phones is not going to hurt them. So all of this is possible. And actually, the two laggards in terms of all of this are the central provinces. If you were to think about Ontario and Quebec, they have the least number of products that are obligated. So disappointing considering I know the demographics of this country, that's over half the populace. Yes, it is. Yes, it is. And it's also, I, you know, I, I guess I can say this. We have some really great legislation in a couple of provinces, say P.E.I. in Nova Scotia, B.C., they do a great job with the way that we work with them,
31:18 with the ability to be able to do the right things for the environment and work together. The legislative environments in both Quebec and Ontario are the poorest in the country. They're too busy ripping up our bike lanes on Blue Street. Well, although you're not so angry about that. You weren't as riled up as I was. Well, but one of the things that you probably don't notice, because you don't, as you say, drive down to work in the mornings and you don't have to be downtown is the greenhouse gas that's being emitted
31:46 with the cars that are lined up on the way to Jane, down the King's Way, so that they can get on the gardener. And if you were to go there any morning, and I invite you, we'll go for a bike ride one morning, and we'll go between eight and nine, and just cycle up and down that Bloor Street, Avenue and you'll see how bad it is. I want to keep an open mind and I do remember from when I did have a commute with a car,
32:09 I do remember that South Kingsway artery to the Gardner being rather key to that neck of the wood. So Cliff, you know what? I do need to keep an open mind and remember that we do share this beautiful city with many people who need to get to work and not everyone's jumping on the subway there and not everybody can bike to work. So I'm going to keep an open mind on everything. That's my pledge to you.
32:30 I appreciate that. Thank you here. Because I got more questions for you, but I do want to give you some gifts, because when I see you, I feel very giving. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's because you're helping save Mother Earth,
32:42 and I appreciate that. But I have for you from Ridley Funeral Home, and this would be an electronic actually because there is a battery in here, and that would act as a flashlight. But Ridley Funeral Home, this is a bottle opener slash measuring tape slash flashlight slash level,
33:00 and they want you to have that as handy for you, Cliff Hacker. I thank you. I have one of the older versions, the green, the round, the circular green ones that I still use. And I've held on to it that probably from five years ago. There's a great recent episode of Toronto Miked with a gentleman who worked in Seattle for sub-pop in the early 90s. So you can hook that to my veins, as we say on Toronto, Mike. His name is Dave. And Dave told me he went to the Sloan garage sale.
33:27 So in West Toronto, the Sloan guy. have a garage sale right outside Chris Murphy's house. And he found a bucket of things, like a dollar for everything in the bucket. And in that bucket, he found one of those, I call them now the retro, the original green measuring tape from Ridley Funerome.
33:43 So all the guys from Sloan have been over. I don't know which one dumped it in the bucket or whatever. But I thought it was interesting that he bought it, because he was getting a new one for his visit today, and he wanted one of the OG ones. But those green measuring tapes from Ridley Funeralm are being used in homes across this country. Thank you to...
34:00 Brad Jones from Ridley Funeral Home. They're great. They really are. And they're, I mean, they're not like the big metal ones that are kind of clunky. You can stick them in your pocket. If you just want to measure something quickly, they're awesome. Okay, maybe I'm going to talk to Brad about bringing back the retro styles. Like, we don't need a battery for our measuring tape, Brad Jones.
34:17 I'm going to talk to Brad about this. And Brad is a great podcast called Life's Undertaking. I highly recommend. I get to co-host that show. So, oh, more gifts quickly here. So Great Lakes Brewery Institution in Southern Otobico, they brew it. on Queen Elizabeth Boulevard down the street from the Costco, 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard, to be precise.
34:36 They sent over some fresh craft beer for you, Cliff Hacking. Thank you very much. And I have been to that location. It's a great spot. And, you know, being a Tobacco residence as we are, it's nice to see the guys doing well. They're doing very well. And there's a fun little fact.
34:51 Maybe I'll ask it as a trivia question. Do you know who was in that building at 30 Queen Elizabeth Boulevard before the brewery moved in decades ago? No, I don't. Faberge, the perfume company. And the architecture of that building won in an award. Like apparently that is a recognized architectural marvel in the city of Toronto. That's amazing.
35:18 Fun facts for you. I can tell you I drove down Dwight Avenue and right by where the Campbell Soup plant used to be. Okay, you know, I got two children in the big building across the street right now. being educated here, so I know that area very well. And I like how Dwight, if you keep going down, Dwight, it turns into a street called Drummond. Yes. And then that's where my kid plays hockey.
35:39 Mimico Arena is there. No Furles is there. I go to that, no frivol. I bike with here all the time. But I just like the idea that it's Dwight Drummond. So shout out to FOTN. I played hockey at Mimicote Arena as well. Yeah, great.
35:50 You know, I used my oldest played at George Bell Arena. And I always thought, what a great barn this is. But I like Mimico Arena as well. These are great, great old rinks we have in Toronto. All right. big gift, but I want to tell you, Cliff, and everybody listening that on November 28, which is a Saturday, this is the year 2026, if you don't know, if you're listening in the far off future, November 28, noon to 3 p.m. I can do it for you. We're going to Parma Pasta.
36:18 Palma's Kitchen, Palma Pasta, absolutely. Thank you. Any chance you make an appearance at TMLX 24, the 24th Toronto mic listener experience on November 28 at noon at Palmis Kitchen. I knew this was coming because I heard Ron James and I heard you advertising it with him. Yeah, right. And so I knew the date and I have not looked at my calendar, but I will look and if I can make it, I'll be there. I will tell everyone that if you do show up, I'm doing a live recording that day too, so you can come on the mics and say hi. And retro festive has a gift for everybody, which is cool. Retro Festive coming back for November and December 2026 as a sponsor of this program.
36:55 That's Ty the Christmas guy if you don't know. They have a gift for everybody, but Palma Pasta. I talked to Anthony Petrucci there the other day. Everybody who comes out is getting a hot table, free meal. So free meal from palm pasta. It's delicious, as you know. I'm sending you home with a frozen lasagna cliff. And they're awesome.
37:14 They really are. Yeah, no BS. Like all the sponsors are trying to make. They're wonderful. And it's delicious. So come to TMLX24. Come hungry. I was going to say, come hungry, darling.
37:25 I think someone else uses that. But you get a hot, you get a delicious meat. Neil from Palma Pasta, and I will bring fresh craft beer from Great Lakes, and I mentioned retro festive. And hopefully Cliff Hacking will be there. Cross your fingers. And Brad Jones, maybe, from Ridley Funeral Home. It'll be a great time for everybody who helps to fuel the real talk here. So I hope to see it.
37:45 It'll be. It'll be a lot cheaper than Ruth Chris's Steakhouse. Oh, that's who I stole it from. Yes, it is. Don't tell them that I'm saying that. They just got a free pitch. They should be happy. They should be happy.
37:57 All right. This is a good question, because I remember in the 80s when they introduced the blue bins, and I remember they talked about the three R's, I want to say, and I do remember the emphasis on, you know, reuse before recycling. But my question, you Cliff Hacking, is that still true? Is it important we reuse before we recycle? Well, yes, it is. And one of the things that we say, if you go to our website,
38:21 if you listen to any of the pitches that we do, if you've got something that can be reused, pass it down. Give it to somebody who needs it. Yeah. I don't know how when you were raising your kids, how you did things, but my daughter's first cell phone was a BlackBerry and with no data, just Wi-Fi. We're living that life now of the 10-year-old and the 12-year-old. Yeah, yeah. No data, just old phones of ours.
38:43 Old phones. And so that's how you start, right? And so whatever it may be, I had a, you were talking about, he was bringing it, the fellow on Brad, was it, that was bringing back something to Staples, some on some iPods? Todd Bueller. Todd. Okay, Todd. So.
39:00 He's in Swansea right now. We had an old CRT television. And Zenith, a really good shape. And some friends of ours had a nanny that was moving out on her own and needed a television. It still worked. I was using it as a stand for other things. Right. Because they weigh 100 pounds.
39:19 It took two of us to pick. Pick it up and move it, yes. But we delivered it to her and it ran for many years after. So, you know, Well, they don't die. No, they, they, they were made to last. They really were. And so, yes, reuse is important.
39:35 And that's just a personal example for us of things that you can do. But if there's a way that you think it has a second or a third life, let's keep it out there. Let's give it to somebody who can use it. When it is then not functional anymore, bring it to us. And we'll make sure that it's dealt with properly. I had a 27-inch Sony-Trinitron TV. And I remember every time I moved, it took a couple of strong people to move this day.
40:02 It just weighed a ton. Yes. When I look, now you got like an 100-inch flat screen or whatever. You can pick it up with like one hand or whatever. Yes, she can. When I think back at that Sony Trinichon, it's like, wow, this thing, it's like that other than your, if you have an automobile, that is like the heaviest thing. It's heavier than the couch, I want to say. It is.
40:20 It's ridiculous. Okay. All right. So we're going to get in the weeds again because I like the details here. but what happens to my electronics after they're dropped off? Like how does recycling process work? Well, they get then to one of these processors that we were talking about. And so there's quite an intense workup that goes.
40:40 They triage the materials to start with to look at what's in them. Batteries have to be taken out. There's lots of batteries in almost everything. And in the old days, I mean, you were talking about your old computer. When you could take the back off and put memory in, you could also take the battery out. Right. Can't do that anymore.
40:57 The batteries are all sealed. Apple products are particularly challenging for the processors because they're sealed so tightly and so well that it makes it difficult for them to get them apart and to get the battery out. But the batteries need to come out first. They get recycled separately. And there's a whole different process with downstreams in terms of where they get sent so that you can recapture the lithium that's in the lithium ion batteries or if they're nickel cadmium batteries that you get that material. back out of them as well. So all of that is part of the process. And then from there, depending on what's next, if there are shrouds of plastic around, you know, you were talking about flat screen TV. Yeah. They will have aluminum around the outside of them that are holding the metal that's holding it in place.
41:40 That is taken off and separated manually. So your people that are doing this, they're wearing personal protective equipment, they're taking all this material. And then ultimately, the pieces that can go into a shredder, and then the shredder has a number of eddy currents, which will determine what weight, so both weight and by vibrations, they can tell what metals go here. So they get the ferris and the non-ferrous separated, the plastics come out separately. And so they all go into separate bins at the end of a, with little shoots off a conveyor. And the result of that is you've got material that can go back into the supply chain. I think that's amazing.
42:19 Like, kudos to you. I think that's just hearing you describe that process in what you're doing. I think it's amazing. Well, it's necessary. It's not, you know, it's not sexy work at all. But it is important. It's not unsexy. Well, you know, I guess not.
42:36 But it's important. And I think that in terms of looking after the environment, one of the things that everybody who works in my organization feels good about is that we are doing things that are protecting the earth. And as you say, we've got one of them. Pluto isn't waiting to welcome us. It's not even a planet, for God's sake. No.
42:54 Let's think bigger. Yep. So, I mean, we need to look after what we've got here. Absolutely. And I feel like I've been clear. I've been clear everybody of my messaging, okay? I do my best. But just for the record, since you are the man,
43:08 this is free to the person. Like when Todd Bueller drops off 100 items, his old iPod, I have a note about his old iPod in a moment here. But when he drops off his old iPod, his old TV, he's not paying a fee. Nothing. He pays nothing. It's completely free to drop off your end-of-life electronics.
43:23 Free to drop off. The revenue comes at the point of sale for the new things. You can bring back as much of whatever you've got, and we're happy to take it. Okay, so back to Todd Buehler, who I was happy to see at TMLX 23. He's in, like I said, he's in... Swansea, yeah.
43:41 He wrote a book about growing up in Swansea in the 70s, and he tells me he wrote that entire book. We gave away three free copies at the last TMLX. then at a great GLB brew pub at Jarvis and Queens Cape. Cliff, were you there? No. We got to get you to the next one. Okay.
43:57 Every year we go back there. It's a very cool space. He wrote his entire book on an old iPhone 5S that he bought in 2016. And he says he's holding on to that one. I guess he wrote his book on that. But he does say that he has a bunch of old iPods. And that's what's going back. The courtesy of Recycle My Electronics.com.
44:19 okay. Thank you, Todd. Keep those anecdotes coming. I enjoy reading them as I talk to Cliff here. All right, Cliff, real talk here. Because I've seen a number of news exposés and I don't know, Philippines is sending back some giant ship full of like Canada's garbage or something like that. But are electronics being shipped overseas to become someone else's problem? There are organizations in Canada that will do that. That's like stealing the catalytic converter under a second harvest truck. Yeah, there are, if you go to the websites, you can check and they will give you names of organizations that have been caught by the federal government or by provincial governments doing this and sanctioned. One of the things that we do and that you can be sure of is that when it comes back to us, it is processed properly. The materials are turned back into things that can go into the environment, be into the manufacturing process.
45:17 And your data is protected. And there is a standard, right? The electronics recycling standard, the ERS, as we insiders say. Yes. We have a standard, as I'd mentioned earlier. We audit each of our primary processors once a year. We also audit our downstreams so that we can ensure not with the same frequency. They're on a three to five year cycle,
45:39 depending upon the nature of the material that they're handling. And the point of that is to make sure that they're both doing the right thing with the material, but also that the health and safety, the workers is being protected, that things are going the way they need to go. We do something, in addition to all of that in terms of the standard, we do something called mass balancing.
45:59 So we want to know that for every pound, every kilogram of material that we have sent to a processor, we want to know what the output is and where it's gone. So if you've got ferrous metal, if you've got plastic, we want to know that if we sent you, 10 kilograms of Ferris, then we want to know that 10 came out the other end and where it went.
46:24 And so there's a tracking involved in addition to the audits that we perform when we go out and actually physically inspect the plans. And here's a fun fact for the listenership. Shout out to the late great Scruff Connors. Here's the fun fact. All recycle my electronics recyclers are prohibited from exporting electronics or substances of concern. I like that term you introduced me to.
46:47 to non-OECD nations. So if the country is not a member of the organization for economic cooperation and development, it is a, you won't allow any substance of concern or electronic to be shipped to that country. That's correct. And there's a Basel agreement as well, which we're signed on to. The United States is not, but we're signed on to along with many other countries, which has a bunch of prescriptions in it with respect to what you must do with product. You know, Cliff, this conversation was so amazing.
47:19 I really should just redo the intro as if it's episode 2000 and just put this on my hard drive, assuming there's no Apple updates coming in the next week or so to destroy, to brick this laptop. I live in fear every day, Cliff. But I would think this is worthy of episode 2000. But I have a note from another listener who is being to all 23 Toronto mic listener experiences. But other than myself, only one human on this planet, our favorite planet. So he's not from Pluto, which is not a planet. But only one human on planet Earth has been to all 23 TMLX events.
47:56 I mentioned number 24 is November 28, so I hope this person's there to keep the street going. His name is Michael Lang, but I know him as Langer. And Langer says, hi to you, Cliff. He worked with you at Canadian Tire in the 1990s. He was on the ninth floor, and I was on the 16th. same building as TVO, which we used to call TV Zero. Yes, yes. Those are great times.
48:20 I was with Canadian tire from 95 to 2000. It was a great experience, a lot of great people. Did you say 2000? You're only minutes away from learning what I might do for episode 2000. Are you excited about that? I am. I want to hear, I'm going to listen. I want to know who is number 2000.
48:34 Well, do you want to know or do you want to be surprised? You have to make that decision. Oh, no, no. I want to know. I want to know. I want to know. I want to know. And I have that recorded, so it's binding. Also, my next guest is James B.
48:47 So one last question for you, before I thank you again. Is James B famous? I don't know. That seems to be where most people fall. It is a great philosophical question, and I'm going to ask James B himself off the top if he's famous. So if you know, you know, Cliff, you hit it out of the park. Love this conversation.
49:14 Is there anything we didn't talk about that you wanted to share with me and or the listenership? Sponsoring again next year. No! Looking forward to coming back. Well, let's not bury that lead. Let's not bury that league. So you're telling me the year 2027, Recycle Myelectronics.com. com.com.com.com.com.
49:34 dot CA will be a partner for the entire year. I get to celebrate you. You'll be back in 2027. You are helping, you are stepping up to help fuel the real talk on Toronto Mike. Do I have that correct? Friend of Toronto Mike. I love you, man. Give me a kiss.
49:53 Okay, that's great news. And the listeners are going to be happy to hear it to have you back for 2027. I don't even want to do this show without you. So all I'm going to say are two words. You ready? Ready. I was going to say, bring it. But I also want to say, thank you. Welcome. And that. I do like the new messaging, which arrived to me in an image. So I actually put the image and people can see it because it's a large font and it's in green. And I've had many a guests sit there and they say, oh, bring it. Like it looks like I have it large green. But of course, this is an image I stuck into this Google document. But I do like it because I get to say it the way Stu Stone wants me to say
50:37 and that brings me brings us to the end of our 1,999th show. 1994 there was a lockout that year as I recall I think there was yeah the Leafs went to the final four
50:54 I'm now jogging my memory. Pat Burns led us back to the final four we got taken out pretty easily in that conference final but the Jay's didn't have there was no world series that year, 1994. Go to TorontoMike.com for all your Toronto Mike needs and much love
51:10 to all who made this possible. Again, Great Lakes Brewery. They've been partners for over 10 years. We love them and we got some fresh craft beer for Cliff here. Home of Pasta. They've been on board for several years themselves. They're hosting us at TMLX 24 on November 28th.
51:27 Nick Aienes, he's stepped up to help fuel the real talk. Recycle MyElectronics.com.ca. Hmm, what more can I say about those wonderful people? And of course, Ridley Funeral Home, shout out to Brad Jones and Life's Undertaking. See you all later today, actually, with James B. We'll find out if he thinks he's famous. Don't you dare miss it.
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