Caleb Flynn Found GUILTY... Deep Diving The Ashley Flynn Murder Trial
00:08 Hello everyone and welcome back to True Crime with Kendall Ray. Thank you so much for joining me today. And if you're new to the show, then welcome. So happy to have you. And make sure to click subscribe or follow or whatever it is on whatever platform you are consuming this episode on. Today, you guys, I am really looking forward to this episode because I like probably so many of you have been experiencing an increased level of feminine rage lately. So seeing this Sid from Ice Age looking ass freak, absolute loser, go down, be found guilty, has just given me a little bit of peace, a little joy.
00:52 And I am so excited to be telling you about how that happened. Today, if you haven't already been able to tell from the title, we are going to be revisiting a case that I covered in July of this year, 2026. and we're going to be talking about the entire trial of Caleb Flynn. It's going to be a little different format as we're going to be going to be going through this trial day by day and pretty in depth. For those of you who are interested in the trial but didn't have time to, you know, sit down and watch an entire trial. That's what this episode is going to be. And there is quite a bit of information to go over.
01:29 Ashley Flynn's murder in February of 2026 was a horrific tragedy. And on top of that, the story that her spineless husband, Caleb Flynn, tried to tell to get away with her murder, is absolutely fucking pathetic, if you ask me. Ashley deserved so much more out of life. She seemed to be a fantastic, very warm, wonderful person, wonderful mother, and her girls deserve to grow up with their mother who absolutely cherished them. Listening to some of the testimony from her loved ones just wrecked me. I mean, it's really hard. And the details of what was actually going on behind Ashley's back just left me feeling speechless at times and so, so angry. Now, if you have not watched my original episode on this case, I highly recommend watching that first, unless you have consumed some other coverage on the case because it's going to be important that you're familiar with it going into this episode because we will not be going to be going.
02:32 over the entire case. Again, this is solely focusing on the trial. I will have that linked below, and I am going to start with a quick summary today, but this will, again, not be a repeated breakdown of the case. Before getting into this episode, I just wanted to thank you all for listening to and supporting my show and also any of the Mile Higher Media shows. Your support makes it possible for us to continue funding grants through my foundation, Higher Hope, which supports victims of violent crimes, their families, and like-minded nonprofits. Okay, guys, we have a lot to go. through, so let's just jump in. Okay, so on February 16th, 2026, Ashley Flynn, a beloved mother, daughter, friend, volleyball coach, and substitute teacher was shot twice at close range in her head
03:17 while she slept in her bed in her Tip City, Ohio home. Ashley's husband, Caleb Flynn, called 911 at 2.31 a.m., sounding panicked, saying that an intruder broke in and shot his wife while he was sleeping in their two daughters' bedroom. And in that roughly seven-minute call, he explained that she was shot twice and there was a significant amount of blood. And very notably, he mentioned multiple times that the side door leading into the garage was open.
03:45 Caleb would later tell police that the intruder came in through that door. And when first responders arrived, Ashley was found deceased in her bed and they quickly began to process the scene. And soon upon their entry, deputies confirmed that the side door from inside the garage leading outside was open,
04:03 and that a refrigerator, which had previously blocked the door, had been pushed back. And we went over this a lot in my first episode, how this makes no goddamn sense. And just to clarify, this was not the main garage door. This was just a regular personal entry door. They also discovered that the center console to Caleb's Ford truck was open, and that the handgun he says he kept in there was missing.
04:29 Now, at first glance, this may have looked like a home invasion gone wrong, but evidence quickly showed that this had been staged. And as I talked about in my original episode on this case, it seemed very obvious that investigators knew something was up right away. And as you'll hear, the evidence absolutely did not support Caleb's intruder story. And thankfully, his arrest came swiftly. On February 19, 26, Caleb Flynn was arrested and he soon pleaded, not guilty and had his bond set at $2 million. Then on March 18th, a grand jury indicted him on 11 counts, and his bond was raised to $3.5 million. And then for the next several weeks, Caleb was in and out of court in preparation for his trial,
05:15 where he ultimately faced the charges of aggravated murder, murder, felonious assault, and tampering with evidence. And despite some delays, his trial finally began with jury selection on Thursday, September, 17th. Now, in my last episode, I had to be very careful about what I said. And I mentioned that there were allegations that Caleb was having an affair with a woman from his church. And at the time, it hadn't been confirmed legally, although seemed pretty damn obvious. So, yeah, I had to be careful about what I said. But today, I can say it plainly. He was having an affair. And her name is Aaliyah Bodner. And let me also remind you that Caleb was a music pastor whose life with Ashley
06:03 revolved around their church. And this was a man who gushed about his wife during his Road to Hollywood interview when he was a contestant on American Idol. But years later, the truth has come to light. And of course, his affair was one of the most damning revelations that came out of this trial. And it was really the heart of the prosecution's motive. So that's where I'm going to start. In opening statements on September 18th, the prosecution said that there are two competing explanations for what happened here. The first explanation is, of course, Caleb's story that an intruder broke in, happened to find his gun in his truck in the center console, stole it, and then shot Ashley, and killed her, and left without ever being seen. Now, that theory, of course, and as they argued in court, has absolutely no supporting evidence whatsoever aside
06:57 from Caleb's word. And then there's the second explanation for what happened, which is that Caleb staged the break-in and killed his wife himself. Which, according to prosecuting attorney, Paul Watkins, Caleb had done so in order to, A, be with his mistress, A. Lea Botner. B, maintain his lucrative job working for Ashley's dad's company,
07:18 which, in my last episode, we hadn't confirmed that this was a family business, but now we have. C, because he wanted to keep his standing in position in the church, and D, to not lose custody of his children. And to support this, Watkins said that they planned to show a trail of digital evidence. And boy, did they. And that evidence would outline an affair. Messages he sent to his mistress discussing his desires to murder his wife. Caleb's attempt to delete information leading up to, and even hours before Ashley's murder, like the
07:51 moron he is, as well as all his movements and activity on his devices prior to the shooting, which go against his version of events. He also said they planned to show evidence that the side garage door had not been broken into the way Caleb suggested, and ultimately, this explanation, he argued, was the only one that could be backed by evidence. I was up until 4 a.m. last night, crime.
08:18 Literally trying to think of ways to kill her and not go to jail. If I could literally kill her, and not go to hell, I would do it in a heartbeat. That is how dark and how hateful I feel. Those two messages are Caleb Flynn's own words. The words about his wife Ashley, words communicated to his mistress.
08:45 Those messages were sent months apart and before Ashley's murder. Those words tell you what this case is about, motive, intent, And the truth behind the lies, Caleb told after his wife and the mother of his two young daughters, was shot to death in their home. At the beginning of this investigation, there was a single question. What happened inside the Flynn residence on February 16, 26th, 26th? As this investigation progressed, two competing explanations emerged.
09:20 You as the jury are tasked with applying the evidence to those two competing explanations. The first explanation was Caleb Flynn's report of the county. An intruder entered. The residents made their way through the home to the primary bedroom, shot Ashley and escaped without being identified. The second explanation was not supplied by a witness. It was reconstructed from the evidence collected during this investigation. You're going to hear about evidence that was and was not collected. Investigators did not discover any evidence
09:55 of someone approaching a home, of an unknown person entering the home, of an unknown person's movement through the residence, of an unknown person's access to the firearm, of an unknown person's departure from the residence. The problem for that explanation is that evidence does not independently reconstruct the intruder's presence. Evidence-based construction developed differently.
10:19 It began with events that could be independently documented. It documents Caleb's years-long relationship with his mistress. It documented Caleb's efforts to delete information up to, and including just hours before Ashley's murder. It documented Caleb's words that major life changes were ended. It documented that Caleb was discussing the end of his marriage. It documents movement and activity on Caleb's devices in the hours leading up to Ashley's murder. People lie. Evidence doesn't. Those two messages I first told you got. those are just two of over 100,000 messages
10:58 Caleb exchanged with his mistress and just the one year prior to Ashley's death. You're going to hear about many others. For example, in the late hours of February 15, just hours before Ashley was executed, Caleb is saying these things to his mistress. I choose you. I'm free.
11:22 Actions will come tomorrow. February 16. day I'll never forget. Thanks to Caleb Flynn, February 16th, is not a day, his two daughters. And Ashley's fame will never forget, too. Now, as for the defense's opening statement, attorney Emily Smith definitely did not deny
11:43 some of the remarks made by the prosecution. I mean, they just admitted it. Caleb was having an affair, and this was not disputed. The disputed part that she and fellow defense attorney, Patrick Mulligan, would, argue was the allegation that an affair made her client a murderer. Instead, she argued that a man can fail as a husband without being a killer. And Smith leaned heavily on the tragedy of Ashley's
12:11 murder, really trying to appeal to the emotion of the jury saying that she deserved better than the rush to judgment case that was being presented by the state. It was the defense's position that investigators failed to consider other possibilities and that their theory, the state, was pure speculation rooted in hollow circumstantial evidence and convenience. She also went line by line, calling out the evidence the state didn't have and reminded the jury that this was not a decision about whether they liked Caleb, but a decision on whether he murdered his wife, which I had to have a little laugh at that one because it just shows how she knows damn well how unlikable Caleb is just as a human being.
12:52 By all accounts, Ashley was a woman who saw the beauty and light in others. She loved her children, her family, and was deeply loved in return by those who knew her. And she was taken from them. There is no argument as to the degree of tragedy that this is. But a woman's life is worth more than mere speculation alone. Ashley Flynn deserves justice and a tragedy deserves more. than a theory. True justice can only be built on a firm foundation of evidence, not speculation, assumptions, hollow circumstantial evidence, convenience, or a rush to a conclusion. The evidence in
13:38 this case will establish, above all else, that the only thing that we know is that Caleb had unfair. The state of Ohio has pinned its entire case on the flawed claim that's simply because Caleb Flynn had motive to leave his wife, that he instead murdered her and manipulated the scene. The evidence will show text messages between Caleb and his mistress. At times, Caleb said ugly, hurtful, selfish things about his wife Ashley to appease his mistress. We're not going to stand here and excuse Caleb for this, stated plainly Caleb betrayed Ashley as a husband. Caleb is not on trial for being a bad husband. He's not on trial for cheating.
14:20 You're not here to deliberate on whether or not you like Caleb. You certainly are not here to render a verdict on whether or not you approve or condone of his actions. This is an aggravated murder trial. What you'll find, ladies and gentlemen, is that this investigation was plagued with errors from the start. And that bias, convenience, lack of integrity, and a rush to judgment manifested the case before us, and that is the very definition of reasonable. out. The state found their story when they found the affair. Caleb was the most convenient scapegoat for them, and they worked backwards. They reached their conclusion first and
14:58 shoehorned the evidence in after. And who is this theory convenient for if not the state? It's not convenient for Ashley, it's not convenient for her family, and it's not convenient for you, or Caleb. The state just told you, they admitted to you, that they observed this case through only two possibilities, Caleb's version and their version. And they want you to do the same. And through the presentation of their evidence, you'll see that there are more than two possibilities here. Let's think about what the charges of the indictment are for a second.
15:32 Aggravated murder, murder with a firearm, and tampering with a firearm, among others. The prosecution has already admitted to you that they intend to convict Caleb of these charges without proving that the firearm even exists. They can't show you who's going. killed Ashley. They can't show you if Caleb had a gun in his hand that night. They can't show you if Caleb pulled the trigger. They can't show you if Caleb damaged the door. They can't give you the
15:57 date that the door was damaged. They are merely guessing and they're asking you to do the exact same thing. There's no forensic evidence linking Caleb to these crimes. There is no eyewitness, as the state has already told you, that Caleb was the shooter. There's no surveillance footage of Caleb that night. There's no gunshot residue found on Caleb or his clothing. There's no time of death from the coroner. The only fingerprints that the state has are those of Caleb in his own home or he's lived since 2021. The state has no direct evidence as to what happened.
16:30 Only a theory following an affair. A tragedy deserves more than a theory. And a woman's life is worth more than speculation. But those opening remarks really painted a strong picture of what we could expect, right? And the testimony that would follow was eye-opening, to say the least. And speaking of eye-opening, after opening statements, the jurors were actually brought right over to the Flynn's house. I'm so glad they did that. And they weren't there for very long, but I imagine being able to visualize that layout beyond just pictures and video was very important for them to understand. and when they got back, witness testimony hit the ground running.
17:16 So let's start with day one. Beth Hall with the Miami County Communications Center was the first of seven to take the stand that day. And that's when Caleb's 911 call was played. And I did play all seven minutes of it in my last episode, which I rarely play an entire 911 call, but I felt like every single second of that call was really important. So if you haven't heard it, I suggest looking it up or going back to that old episode and taking a listen. But it was played again and Caleb could be seen wincing and his chest pounding as
17:46 that audio aired. Next to testify was Sergeant Corey Riss Miller and he was the first officer with the Tip City Police Department to actually arrive on scene and he described the condition of Ashley's body, which was really intense, stating that it looked like she was asleep when she was shot. And of course this is important because this suggests that she wasn't startled by her attacker. No, on cross-examination, the defense pointed out that his body cam wasn't initially turned on, which they did to try and support their botched investigation argument. But I liked his response. Is there a reason why it wasn't on?
18:24 Yes. Why? Because we got the new system, body camera system, and the way it's set up is when you turn your light bar on, the body camera automatically turns on. Well, for some odd reason, mind didn't come on. malfunctioning the system. And my biggest worry was
18:43 the victim, the family, and looking for a shooter. At that time, the body cam is not, it was least in my worries. And we did still see plenty of body cam footage, though. I mean, I played a lot of that in the first episode.
18:55 In fact, the jury saw about 24 minutes of Officer Alexandra G.M. Papa's footage, which captured her entry into the home, her initial conversations with Caleb, as well as the discovery of two major pieces of evidence that open side garage door and the opened truck console. Oh, that door is open over there.
19:15 Back, that back door is open. Is that laid outside? Because I can't see. Is that a closet? Okay. The center console is. It is. After you cleared the garage, what did you guys do?
19:36 We walked back inside. And I almost immediately asked, the defendant, are there any firearms in this house? What was the defendant's response? He immediately replied and said, he has a shotgun and a 22, a pellet gun. And then he said, I have a handgun in the glove compartment of my truck. We also saw her go into the girl's room to check on them,
20:00 and we watched her ask Caleb if there was anyone he could call. And he made two phone calls, one to his mom and also one to Ashley's mom. In my last episode, I had played footage of Caleb in his front. where he was seen talking to and being consoled by a woman. And we now know that this woman was Ashley's mom, Jill. Another big moment in court was when she shared a more detailed account of Caleb's story, which still had a lot of gaps when I first covered this case. What did he say?
20:29 That someone had broken in. He was in his daughter's room. He had been sick. His daughters were sick too. He went in his daughter's room because he hurt the dogs moving around. because of their collars. So he thought maybe the dogs had woken up because his daughters were coughing or something.
20:49 I can't remember his exact words. And then while he was in the room, he fell asleep, and he woke up at some point to someone breaking in and gunshot. And I will say we get an even more detailed version later on, so hold tight for more information to be revealed on all of that. But defense attorney Emily Smith then proceeded with her, her cross-examination, which focused on the backyard. Officer G.M. Papa did not search it and couldn't say whether anyone had. Smith also drove home the fact that Caleb's story remained consistent
21:23 across everyone he spoke to in those early morning hours. And as for the rest of the testimony that day, it was a lot more, you know, scene-setting facts. The jury heard more about the injuries that Ashley sustained, and also that a drone's thermal search found no one around the house, and also that a canine handler's dog consistently pulled towards the garage's interior rather than away from the house, both suggesting that no intruder was inside the home. So day one wrapped there, and then more testimony picked back up on Monday the 21st, which leads me to day too. You know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over and over again? You know, that sweater that somehow always works with everything, that jean jacket that just completes any outfit, the jean.
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23:51 Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asked where you heard about them, make sure to let them know Kendall Ray sent you. It's the best way to support the show. For the prosecution, that day really focused on the staging of the scene. And the defense's focus was really on the absence of the murder weapon and also a continued emphasis on the scene being poorly investigated. Five witnesses testified, and among them was Ohio BCI Special Agent David Hammond, whose testimony about the side garage door was pivotal to the prosecution's case. And again, that's the door that Caleb claimed an intruder used to get inside. And ultimately, Hammond's big picture was that the damage on that door,
24:46 was not consistent with the damage to the other doors that he has seen in the hundreds of burglaries that he's investigated. He stated that the door didn't sustain damage by a tool that would be consistent with prying a door open, maybe other tools, but not a tool for prying. And he believes that the damage was done while the door was open and that it was his professional opinion that this was staged. The one thing that was a fairly unusual, was that in this area right here, this soft wood of the door frame, I didn't notice any tool marks. Why is that important?
25:25 If you're going to force the door open, typically what you do is you take a rifle and you insert it between the door and the frame. The idea is to create leverage, the whole, the locking mechanisms, the throw, and the latch out of the frame to force it in one. Typically what we see, like, you know, burglary, is we see those receivers this place and move out, and then we see a toolmark impression in this area,
25:56 and oftentimes we see like a paint exchange from the pool onto the wood itself. This is a photograph. It's a close-up of the edge of the door, the same word we've been talking about, and it just shows the condition of the dead bolt itself, the throw, and then the latch bolt of the handle. And what stands out to you there? Again, I couldn't find any damage with that latch bolt. I couldn't find any damage with the dead bolt itself.
26:28 Both of those locks were unlocked when I examined them. That was really curious. There was no evidence that I could see where a fire pole had been inserted in the door and the door frame to force it open. And when you examined them, were you locking and unlocking those mechanisms? And how did they function? And when you observed them in the locked position or where the bowl is out, what did you observe? It is observing the damage to those.
26:59 The typical burglary, you see damage to that latch bolt with the handle. Typically, it's pushed outward because the door is being forced open. And pushed through that frame. typically we see the dead bolt throw being pushed towards the outside as the door is being pushed inward. The damage on the inside of the frame around that locking, that deadbolt lock receiver, there was pieces of wood that was chipped away, but there was no corresponding damage on the frame. There was no corresponding damage on the door itself. As I stood there inside of the garage, it looked to me,
27:41 like the damage had happened with the door open. What do you notice about the exterior surface of the north garage door? There was no evidence or there was nothing that we could see or that I could see to indicate that the door had been kicked open or forced open by examining that exterior of that door. There was nothing that I could see to indicate that force had been applied to the outside of that door. Aside from the handle locking, the handle being broken,
28:11 all, I couldn't find anything to indicate that that door had been forced open. They also showed photos of the crime scene itself during the testimony, during which Caleb can be seen having what appears to be an emotional reaction, which I've just got to say, all of his emotional reaction seemed like such a bad performance to me. It seemed so fake. There wasn't a moment where I thought, maybe he had some real emotion going on here. But again, that's just my opinion. But anyway, the big takeaway here, was the fact that it appeared that there was no indication of a struggle. And also, because of the nature of her wounds and the position that her body was in, Special Agent Hammond said that he wasn't
28:54 able to tell what type of wound she sustained. And the medical examiner, Dr. Brian Castro, essentially said the same thing. He testified that Ashley's cause of death was two gunshot wounds to the head, both entering the back right side of her skull, and that he could only count them after she'd been cleaned and her head shaved. And so many have or had, including myself, and I'm sure many of you when we first looked at this case, wondered how Caleb knew that she had been shot twice when he called 911. How was he able to determine that enough to say that in the call?
29:32 Later, we do get clarity on this and we find out that Caleb said that he heard two gunshots, which is how he knew her number of injuries. So this was a confusing part that has been clarified now. But again, with his conviction now, I think it's fair to say that he knew about those two wounds because he was the one who inflicted them on his own life, the mother of his children. Oh, God, this case pisses me off so much. But anyways, before I get too distracted by my anger here, during Hammond's cross-examination, defense attorney Patrick Mulligan was quite intense.
30:08 His focus was the blood spatter analysis, and he got Hammond to reveal that, although Caleb's clothing had been seized and some blood was found on one item, it wasn't sufficient enough for blood spatter reconstruction, suggesting that Caleb's clothing wasn't bloody enough for him to have been the shooter. Take a listen. Did you order the seizure of what Mr. Flynn was wearing on that particular morning? In discussions with the detectives, some of the conversations were to retrieve his clothing from him. And nothing was found on that clothing, was it? There was some blood found on one particular item, but it wasn't sufficient enough for us to do anything as far as a blood spatter reconstruction. Bottom line, there was no match. I'm talking about a match of blood splatter from Ashley onto his clothing from that particular end. incident. There's no way to say that.
31:06 I'm not aware of that evidence existing. Thank you. Mulligan also pointed out the fact that his knowledge on the incident was not based on a conversation with Caleb. You did not interview Mr. Flynn. That's correct.
31:21 So you accepted the wording and the briefing without interviewing the source of the information on that particular day, correct? My role up the scene was... I don't care about your role.
31:36 That would be a correct statement. That's a yes or no question. It's correct that I did. Thank you. Other things he called into question were the thoroughness of the BCI's examination of the fridge, specifically how much force it would take to move it, as well as the lack of murder weapon. Special Agent Hammond even agreed that the murder weapon can be the most important piece of evidence.
31:59 Big emphasis on can there. because it's not necessarily required to get a conviction. At least not in this case, according to the prosecution, based on all of the other evidence. Other points the defense made included the fact that Special Agent Hammond couldn't say whether the door's lock had been picked or how long it had been unlocked for. He couldn't say when the damage to the door occurred and that he didn't recall smelling any cleaning solution in the house by the time he got there. Mullen also discussed the layout of the house, which was a big... piece of confusion in my last episode. It was something we really didn't have any context on and now we do. So what we learned was that the door leading from the garage into the house and the door
32:42 leading into the primary bedroom were only a few feet apart, which was interesting to learn because I pictured this very differently. And the insinuation with that being that someone could have broken in and shot Ashley very quickly before fleeing. Now, later that day, the jury heard from BCI crime scene tech, Holly Rizek, who focused on. a lot on the DNA swabs that she collected from the scene, and this included a sample from the bedroom light switch, which had a positive reaction to the chemical she used to test for blood. And I'm jumping briefly ahead here, but the following day in court, we learned that Caleb's DNA was the only match to the DNA found on that light switch. And his DNA was found in other spots, too.
33:22 Although, as the defense would point out, that would be all normal in your own home, of course. I think we can all agree the peculiar part, the interesting part here, was what wasn't there. And that was a foreign DNA profile. Yes, of course, intruders can wear gloves and cover their tracks. But to leave nothing behind, I'm not convinced, especially if this was an intruder who didn't even bring their own weapon, just happened to find one on the scene. I don't assume that someone like that would be prepared enough to cover their tracks that well. On the flip of that, though, the defense did point out that there was some low-level DNA that was too weak to compare. Therefore, a third person couldn't be completely ruled out.
34:08 Either way, though, if I'm even trying to entertain the defense's theory here, I find it very peculiar that there would be no major foreign DNA. Now, going back to Holly's testimony, the last key point I want to make was her stating that she couldn't find any damage to the outside of the door, only the inside. So as Monday continued, the jury heard testimony from Detective Adam Bernard, who talked about the efforts made to try and locate the murder weapon, as well as other potential evidence. Let's listen. Printed the tips out and gave them to the FBI. After that, I was advised that we were going, a group of us were going to go out and search the rear of the residents. So we went out and searched the backyard area. There's some woods back there, more tree areas. We searched that, some rock piles and things to make sure that had been done.
34:56 We then went inside and searched the inside with some more specific concealment places looking for any evidence or anything was dropped. After that, we were waiting for Detective Alsace from Miami County Sheriff's Office to bring a high-powered magnet. We took that magnet and we contacted our street department and had them lift all of these storm drain rates off of the runoff areas. We took the magnet and what we would do is drop it in, make sure we got that area and we would swing it so go up and down each of the connecting pipe. And then after that, I got down physically into those culverts to make sure nothing was missed or outside the reach of the magnet, the flashlight to make sure nothing was in there. And then on these searches that you just mentioned up every 19th, did you find anything of note? No. On February 20th, again, Detective Klein had told me we were going to remove both vehicles from the garage.
35:46 We wanted to make sure there was nothing hidden up underneath of them. So we put them on separate tow trucks. And at that point, we went to Warrior Racing, where they allowed us to use some. some of their vehicle lifts. We lifted the vehicles up so we could search under them in any void spaces or areas that make something that may have been hidden or tucked. Did you have found in that search? No. Detective Klein again came to me and advised we were going to rent a machine to take the insulation out of the attic. Make sure nothing been thrown, tucked, or hidden in the attic. So we spent several hours that evening after the
36:21 evidence walking to take the insulation out of the attic. But eventually did you participate in the grid search? We did. There was probably 10 to 15 other officers and detectives there assisting the line search. I mean, those efforts do sound extensive. And during the cross-examination, that was a big point for the defense. How could Caleb have hidden the murder weapon in such a short amount of time? And I have to say I do wonder that myself, but definitely not enough for my opinion to change on this case.
36:52 But anyway, continuing with his cross-examination, Detective Bernard also testified about his efforts to trace the gun that Caleb said he kept in his truck center console, and he ultimately couldn't find a purchase record for one. Are you involved in researching the defendant's firearm purchasing history? I was. And how are you involved with that? In one of the interviews, he stated he bought the firearm
37:15 where he got his CCW. I was able to obtain his CCW permit application, so I knew it was in South Carolina. So I called several gun stores in the area trying to find the 4473 that you have to fill out if you buy a firearm from a gun killer. This is in South Carolina? Yes. And what firearm were you able to attribute to Ashley or Caleb Flynn? No.
37:38 Another huge finding of his was the search warrant that was executed on Caleb's phone, specifically for the Group Me messages that were on there. Now, if you have not heard of GroupMe, it's basically just a free mobile messaging app. according to Detective Bernard, there were 107,655 lines of data. Did you write any search warrants as a result of being involved with this case? I did. And was one of those for grouping messages? It was. And whose information did you use or did you request through me messages from?
38:14 The defendants. I requested two email addresses and a phone number as identifiers for the account. And where did you receive that information? It was found on his mobile devices that have been given to us from phone analogs and things. And what was contained in the data packet? There was 107,65 lines of data. Now that's a fuck ton of messages, right? And guess what? We found out in testimony later on that all of those messages were messages sent between Caleb and his mistress in a one-year span. And believe me, going to be going through a lot of it here soon. So just stick with me. But let's jump ahead
38:57 to Tuesday, September 22nd, which was day three. Now this day was a highly emotional day in court, and that's because we finally heard from Ashley's family members. There were 16 total witnesses, including Ashley's mom, Ashley's dad, her sister, and her brother-in-law. Ashley's mom, Jill, was the first among them to take the stand, and she provided some incredible helpful context. For starters, and this should come as no surprise, but she spoke very lovingly about her daughter and what an amazing person Ashley was. You could truly sense her pain, but also her strength when speaking about her. And I just think testimony like this, that reminded the jury that this is a human being at the end of the day, who've lost their life, who was so
39:45 loved, so needed by so many people in her life, and that she is the center, she is the core of this trial, that was really important. And she also provided some context into Caleb and Ashley's marriage, which she said had been good from what she knew, except for the last six months before Ashley was murdered. Jill couldn't say exactly what was going on, but she said that she could sense that there wasn't much peace, as she put it. In regards to the defendant, how long had you known him? At 16 and a half years. When did you first meet him? At Lee University. What was reason for meeting him?
40:25 He was starting to date our daughter. What was your first impression on him? We liked him. At the time of Ashley's death, how would you describe her relationship with Caleb that you're aware of? At the time of her death? Good. It was somewhat strained, I think, the last six months that I could tell. But other than that, good.
40:49 Did Ashley ever confining you about her marriage? No, no, she always wanted us to think the best of Caleb. Did Caleb ever confided you about their marriage? No. Did you notice any changes in Ashley's behavior prior to her death? No, I'd say it was normal. She was a little strained, I think. Just you tell if there's not a lot of peace in their home, and I couldn't pinpoint why, and I don't think she could pinpoint why.
41:18 She also talked about the last moments that they had seen and spoken to one another. Miss Smith, when was the last time you saw Ashley alive? It was February 13th, and we went to lunch with Todd and Kayla. He took us all the girls out for a Valentine's lunch. And on Friday, February 14th, did you speak with Ashley? Yes, I said, we wanted to have the girl, so she and Kayla could be. go on a date for Valentine's Day. And did that happen?
41:53 That I'm not exactly sure of. I know we had the girls. I don't know if they actually went on a date. And on Saturday, that would be February 15th, is that correct? Yes. Did you speak with Ashley then? Yes. And what did you speak with her about?
42:14 She was getting ready for the Galentine's party with the girls. and she was just super excited about that. And then came her absolutely devastating testimony about receiving the 3 a.m. call from Caleb that her daughter had been killed. Miss Smith, February 16th at 3 in the morning, I heard my phone ringing. And Todd had just left that morning, early that morning,
42:49 to go on a snowmobile trip with his friends. in Canada. So he was 17 hours away and I thought it was him because I thought he's telling me that they got there safely. So I jumped up and I had left my phone in the bathroom. So I went to get it and I saw that it was Caleb and I thought, what the world? And so I answered it and Caleb said, she's gone. I said, who what do you mean? What do you mean who? What do you mean who's gone? He said, Ashley, she's gone. And I said, what do you mean? He said, someone broke in and flutter. And I said, Caleb, I'll be right there. He said, you can't come, the police are here. And I said, Caleb, I'll be right there. And I hung up. And I started getting really dizzy.
43:46 So I laid down on the bathroom floor. I can't remember that the tile was so cold. until I could get up. It seemed like forever, but I don't know, maybe it was five minutes. And so as soon as I got up, I called Todd, and thankfully he answered. And I told him, I said, Caleb just called and said, someone broke in and murdered Ashley. And hearing her relived this on the stand was just soul-crushing. You can tell how strong she wanted to be for Ashley, and she definitely was. but how can you not fall apart when talking about something like that?
44:25 I mean, the strength that she was able to display just by getting up there and speaking and holding it together as well as she did, I think is very, very impressive. And she wasn't even done after that. Jill then spoke about arriving at the scene and ultimately about the conversation she had with Caleb when he told her what happened. She also provided some additional context, so I thought it was important to play. They went to bed and he was coughing. So Ashley asked him to sit on the couch.
45:02 So he was sleeping on the couch. Then he said that he heard the dog's collars shaking. And he, that's what woke him up. And he thought maybe one of the girls had got up to get a glass of water. And he said, then he heard him coughing. So he went in the girl's room and he lay down with, And then he heard a gunshot and he said, he froze. And then he went in to check on Ashley and he shook her foot and said,
45:38 Ashley, baby, and she didn't respond. Ashley, he kept shaking her foot. Ashley baby and she didn't respond. So then he turned on the light and saw that she had been shot and called 911. And then Jill testified that when she, and Caleb were finally given permission to go inside the house and get the girls so that she could bring them over to her house. Both girls, according to her, were completely out of it. Zonked was how she actually described one of them.
46:08 I put the dogs in the car and then I walked in to get the girls. So I walked in and I got it. How did she appear at that time? She was zonked. I mean, both girls were absolutely completely out of it, sleeping, tired. I mean, they had not, they hadn't broken up at all. Yeah, she was awesome. And did you take that well? Yes. Did you wake up the ass well?
46:31 I did not. Who did? Caleb. How did it appear when she got in your car? Scared. Shook, scared. Did she appear as if she were sleeping? She was being groggy, yes.
46:44 Then following this, Jill described how a few days after their mother's murder, Caleb took the girls for a walk, and she said that they came back from it acting nervous. It was 10 o'clock in the morning. I got a phone call from Kim Flynn, and she said, Caleb wants to see the girls right away. And as soon as we got there, Caleb, his dad, and mom were grading in the driveway. And so Caleb took the girls and went on a walk.
47:18 Did you see the girls after the walk? Yes. How did they appear? Nervous. What did you do about that? I asked her why she was nervous. And without telling me what she said, what did you do next? I marched her down to her dad and said, she's afraid to tell the truth.
47:38 Tell her to tell the truth. What did he say? Of course, baby, you're supposed to tell the truth. And then I got to go upstairs with her. I really don't know what she wasn't telling the truth about, but Jill got cut off during her testimony. and was told not to continue sharing it. And I do know that for a time, at least, it was believed that the girls were going to have to testify,
48:02 and ultimately that didn't end up happening, which personally I'm very thankful for. I definitely think that was the right call. These are very young girls who have been through something extremely traumatic, and I'm sure they would have been willing to do it for their mom, but that is just way too much for them to have to carry such a heavy burden and so much stress and trauma at such a young age. And on that note, Ashley's sister Kayla was next to take the stand
48:30 after the defense declined to cross-examine Jill, and she helped drive the financial part of the prosecution's proposed motive. If you remember, they argued that one reason for doing this was Caleb's desire to maintain his lucrative position working at Ashley's dad's company. And if he divorced her, well, that job would have gone by-by-so delusionally, he thought murder was a better solution. So a big part of Kayla's testimony was not only describing Caleb's history
48:58 working for her dad, but also his projected future earnings at the company, which was very interesting to hear. And as a reminder, that company was a commercial flooring and church furnishings business, which we've since learned, he was earning a $200,000 annual salary at
49:17 as a salesman. However, we found out that he stood to gain a lot more. In August of 2025, their dad, Todd, met with a financial advisor and said that he wanted to give the business to his daughters as a gift to split 50-50. And in her testimony, Kayla shared that the day after this meeting took place, she showed Caleb and her husband a spreadsheet which projected earnings of $300,000 to $400,000 to $400,000 per year if things continued to trend the way they had in the past. She also added that Caleb asked to look at that spreadsheet again in September.
49:54 Very interesting. And then later in her testimony, she talked about finding out what happened to her sister and about what Caleb's version of events were. And his story to her matched his story he gave to Jill. And she definitely pointed out some things that she thought were suspicious, and I think they are worth hearing.
50:13 So I'm going to play some of that now. I just remember being like, how did you not see the intruder running out of Ashley's room? when you came in to the room. And so I kind of asked that. I don't remember at that point, but I know I asked him at a later time. But then the second thing I thought of is,
50:32 what in the world, this is Tips City, Ohio, no one is targeted. And I said, and I remember being like, if this person who killed Ashley was a psychopath, why did he not just come in and chew all of you? I remember thinking that. Like, it just didn't make sense that Ashley herself was targeted.
50:49 And then we said, with anything taken and he was like, no. So it was just, we could not wrap our heads around it. Like, who breaks into a house, shoots one person, takes nothing, and does it with no motive. No one. That just does not happen. And I also did want to say that Kayla mentioned that they loved Caleb. I mean, like a brother, he was such a big part of their lives.
51:15 And she actually thought they got the wrong person when he was arrested. I mean, she just couldn't, you know, wrap her mind around him being responsible for killing her sister. And it was only later on during an interview with the FBI when she learned about the affair that, you know, she put the pieces together and realized that he just was not who she thought he was. And it really sounds like that sentiment was shared across their family. I mean, this was completely shocking for them. So I am really excited to be partnering with our next sponsor today, Freestyle. diapers. These diapers are next-level people. Freestyle diapers have completely changed the game for us. I never thought I would love a diaper quite so much. Because listen, babies, they've got very delicate
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53:35 So head to Freestyle.com. And use code TKR to get 30% off your first three months of a freestyle diaper subscription. That brings your first three months down to just $49 a month, which is such a good deal. Again, that's freestyle.org slash TKR, code TKR. Now, on cross-examination, Kayla was asked to share how Ashley's daughters took the news, the news about the affair, to be clear. And it turns out they knew Alia. They knew her from church. And when they were eventually told about the affair, Kayla said they were broken-hearted for their mommy.
54:16 One of the girls asked, she loved Daddy more than anyone else in life. So why did Daddy not love her as much? And thinking about those two girls having to process something like that after everything else they've had to process. just rips my heart up, dude. It's so messed up. I cannot imagine the pain that they have experienced over and over and over again throughout this entire process. I mean, the pain that they are still experiencing every single day.
54:43 I am just beyond grateful for the love and support that I know that they have through their family. It seems like they're a wonderful family and they are going to have the best possible support system moving forward through the rest of their lives. And Kayla is now raising them. but this is so upsetting and my heart goes out to them and to everyone in their family. And for them to have struggled to come to terms with the fact that Caleb did this, that makes it even more heartbreaking to be so betrayed in that way.
55:16 And, you know, it wasn't until they were really confronted with the facts that they couldn't deny it. And that had to have been so shocking. And here's Todd talking about the moment he received. this horrific news. I had to call at 3 o'clock, and she said, Ashley has been murdered in her bed. What? I said, no way.
55:40 And she said, yes. And I don't remember what else, but I said, okay, well, we're headed home. What did you do at that time? And then we loaded up everything on the truck and a trailer, and we drove back. It's the longest ride in my life. What did you do during that car right?
55:59 I called Jill. I'll be a hundred times just to see what in the world is going on. And then she started to tell me the story of what happened. And I said, I mean, all I could think about it, nothing in that story means sense to me. Nothing makes sense to me. Why would somebody break in, go walk in there, shoot my daughter, and then run out? If it was a burglary, why don't they go around the whole house? and then your mind gets to run on a 15-hour trip,
56:34 so I'm thinking, wow, I said, how it didn't make sense is those dogs, and they normally sleep in there with Ashley and Caleb. When we pull up to the house, they are barking, going crazy. And then when you get in the house, they're going crazy, and we're having fun and jumping. I thought, how in the world,
56:53 I always thought that those dogs would be one of the best fences against anything in that house because they were, you could, be in the cul-de-saccon, almost they're starting to bark. And I thought, how in the world did that happen? And those dogs not go bananas. And then I even Googled. I said, can a Christian man snack and shoot his wife and kill his wife?
57:18 I'd get a goob on that because I thought, hmm. Now, the point about the dogs is one that I raised in my original episode. Jill and Todd both testified that they barked at anyone. who came in like most dogs do. Kayla even said one of the dogs usually slept in Ashley's room. So how on earth does someone break into a home and do something like this without these dogs somehow getting involved? It just, it makes no sense. It's ridiculous. I think the fact that Todd even made that Google search really tells you how hard it was for him to wrap his brain around all of this. I mean, Caleb had truly been such a central part of their family for so many.
57:59 many years. Earlier in his testimony, he talked about the 30 trips that they had taken together and the fact that in all of those years, Caleb only missed one family vacation, which was a trip to Gatlinburg in October of 2025, and it was because he said he was sick. I mean, he was always around, and Todd said that he thought their relationship was great. Unlike Jill, he didn't see any major changes between them leading up to this. And clearly, he liked Caleb enough to hire him. And that was actually part of Todd's testimony to back some of the financial stuff that we heard Kayla say when she took the stand. And speaking of the financial side of things, Tip City PD, Captain Tony Smith testified next. And he talked a lot about the bank records and other financial matters.
58:46 And in his direct examination, we learned that Caleb was the sole beneficiary of Ashley's $100,000 life insurance policy. No shock there. We also learned that Caleb was paying $6.99 a month for something called a soul. Snoop Report, which is a paid service that sends weekly reports on an Instagram account's activity. And he had been paying for this from September 2025 through January of 2026. And he didn't say whose account was being monitored, but right away I had my suspicions. And later on, those suspicions were confirmed, as we did find out it was actually his mistress's account, Aliyah's. And then Captain Smith also revealed that two of Aaliyah's devices were not recovered, and there's a lot to say on that. And I will address that during her testimony.
59:35 But as for other critical moments of that day, several additional Ohio BCI agents took the stand as well. This was the DNA portion of the trial. And as I mentioned earlier, no foreign DNA profile was found in the home. And I was very annoyed to learn that Caleb was not swabbed for gunshot. Chot residue. Yes, you heard that right. Why? I don't know. Just ridiculous. But anyway, the jury also heard from their next door neighbor, who testified that no unusual activity was recorded on any of her three motion-censored cameras between February 15th and February 16th. And then the next day, Wednesday, there was more corroborating testimony. And that brings us to day four. The door
01:00:19 itself was actually brought in, and we heard again that the damage was sustained from the inside. not the outside. We also learned no activity was found on the neighboring home surveillance cameras, searches turned up no leads for weapons, and even a tip that came in about a hit on Caleb's life, although all tips related to a hit were not found to be credible. Then there was also a big revelation that came in from the testimony of FBI Special Agent Sarah Deemran. For starters, she shared more information about that garage side door, specifically that a claw hit, hammer from the Flynn's garage workbench was identified as potentially being the tool that made the marks on it. Granted on cross-examination, she couldn't exclusively say that this was the tool
01:01:05 or who could have used it. And there was some majorly conflicting testimony later on stating that none of the tools in the home could be linked to the marks on the door. But I still think that her opinion was important to include here. And that, you guys, wasn't even the biggest thing that she shared. She happened to be one of the FBI agents who interviewed. Alea and collected her phone for testing. And according to her testimony, Alia lied in her first FBI interview on February 20th. It was only in her second interview on the 26th that she finally admitted to her relationship with Caleb. And the police only knew about the affair to begin with based on the tips from Ashley's own aunt. And then they also had follow-up
01:01:48 conversations with Ashley's friend as well. And obviously this would suggest that she knew something was going on, which we later find out she certainly did. Alia even confirmed it herself when she took the stand, which happened next. Alia Botner testified for the prosecution, and she was on the stand for almost seven hours across both Wednesday and Thursday. And to kick things off, she spoke about, you know, how the two of them met, how their relationship evolved and first began. And as a reminder, Alia was a worship leader at their church, Christian
01:02:23 Life Center, aka CLC. How did you first meet the defendant? At CLC? Approximately, when was that? That was the summer of 2022. How old were you? It was 20 when we met, and he was 36 or 7. At the time you met the defendant, what was your role at CLC?
01:02:46 I interned under the main worship leader, Zach Nelson. What was the defendant's role at CLC at the time? Volunteer. on the worship team. What did you learn about defendant's marital status when you met him? At first I didn't know that he was married because he never wore his wedding ring, but I did find out from other people that he was married. What was his wife's name? Actually.
01:03:10 Did you ever meet his wife? Yes. When you first met the defendant, was your relationship professional? Yes. How long did it remain professional? Until March of 2020. Then, by her own admission, things became sexual in May. Can you describe how the nature of your relationship changed?
01:03:30 So, I got out of a five-month-long relationship in January. And I always noticed that during that relationship, because the guy I was dating was on the worship team, Caleb was always distant whenever I was around him or whenever he would serve in the worship team. He was always, you know, super extroverted with everyone else, but was always distant towards me and this guy whenever I was with him. And so after we broke up, I noticed Caleb was starting to come in my life a little bit more
01:04:00 and become more friendly again. And he started texting me more. It would start with just iMessage games. So we were sending friendly text messages and it turned into texting every day. In my heart, I never thought it would be anything more than that. But towards the end of that month, March of 2024, Caleb would ask to, it started with small things. He would ask to come over just to hug me.
01:04:35 And then he would. He would come over. He would hug me, and then he'd leave. And at this time, you knew he was married. Yes, I did. But he allowed him to come over to the home? I did. When did your relationship become physical beyond hugs?
01:04:48 Yeah, so towards the end of that month, Caleb expressed what he had feelings for me. And he said that the reason why he thinks it's okay to have those feelings is because his wife cheated on him. Two years before 2024, he told me that she cheated on him. And he told me that he only sees her as a roommate. That the only time they ever talk is from picking the girls up from school, dropping them off. He told me that he hates her. He told me the only reason why he's still with her is because of the girls. and that he lost his chance to divorce her
01:05:22 because it's already been two years since it's happened and he was feeding you all about. When did your relationship with the defendant become sexual? I believe it was May 24. So there you have it, folks. Caleb said that it was okay for him to develop feelings for her because two years prior, Ashley cheated on him. But to be very clear here,
01:05:45 the FBI examiner went through her phone and found no evidence of an affair. at all. The only proof that existed was Caleb's word about what a neighbor supposedly saw. Okay? And if that's how Caleb justified it, how did Alia justify it? Let's find out. You knew the defendant was married. How did you morally justify a sexual relationship with the defendant? It was completely wrong and I shouldn't have. But I think him telling me that she cheated on him and they're just living his roommates. At first I was strong and I said, this isn't okay. We shouldn't do this. I still care about you, but you know, you're married. And then he kept pursuing and it just started with little things and then it grew like cancer. And I found myself in a place I never thought I would be. So I never morally justified it. I just did it even while I knew it was wrong. How long did the two of you remain in a sexual relationship? About a year and a half. Now I have a lot of opinions on Aaliyah.
01:06:50 And they're not good opinions, okay? And I am very curious to hear what you guys think of her by the end of this episode or what you think if you've followed this trial at all. And I'm pretty sure I'm going to know where most of you fall on that one. Because on one hand, yes, she did testify against Caleb, which I can appreciate. But on the much realer hand, the absolutely vile things that this woman had to say about Ashley, the just disgusting things that she texted and the way that she went behind her back
01:07:27 to screw her husband is so despicable and I just really can't find anything nice to say about her at all. I really have zero respect for her. And I know you guys are probably wondering, so let me make this clear. She did not receive any type of deal for her testimony and she has not been charged with anything related to Ashley's That being said, I know a lot of people are angry about that, and I understand I know people feel that she is in some way responsible for what happened, and I feel that way myself.
01:08:02 But from a legal standpoint, though, I have to make it clear. I have to say that Caleb was the only person who has been found to be involved with this murder. Okay? But again, Aaliyah, girl. So when she was asked why she lied initially, when speaking with the FBI. She admitted that, of course, she was worried about her reputation and losing her job. Plus, knowing that Caleb had been arrested for murder, she was worried about being associated with it. It was only when the FBI agents revealed
01:08:32 they found messages on Alia's phone talking with a friend about the affair that Alia said she finally admitted the truth. And boy, did a lot more truth get revealed. I mean, it soon became incredibly clear that their relationship, Aaliyah and Caleb's was riddled with toxicity. Caleb's bitchass was very jealous of other men that Aaliyah knew,
01:08:56 and Aaliyah was jealous of Caleb's marriage to Ashley. I mean, it went both ways for sure, and calling it jealousy really doesn't even do it justice. It was pretty wild. Even though Caleb would tell Aaliyah that he loathed Ashley and wanted her dead upward of a hundred times. Alia still couldn't handle the fact that Caleb spent any time with her at all. And that jealousy manifested itself in many ways for both of them.
01:09:27 For example, she testified that at some points in their relationship, she believed Caleb was hacking into her Instagram account and liking pictures of guys that he thought she had feelings for, which I've got to say, I'm lost there. Why would you do that? What is the point of that? But she said that he knew her password and would even go on her phone while she was at church on the stage.
01:09:50 She also said that she thought he created a fake Instagram account to try and communicate with her, which we'll hear more about later. Now, as for her, she would text Caleb and make him promise her all sorts of insane shit. Like, for example, that he wouldn't do nice things for Ashley, things like getting her a birthday or Valentine's Day present. Yet, despite this horrible behavior and toxicity
01:10:13 between the two of them, their relationship continued. And eventually that escalated into conversations around Caleb leaving Ashley for good. However, we learned that no matter how many times Caleb said that he was going to file for divorce, he never actually did it. And that was a major sore point between the two of them. She testified that the conversations surrounding him leaving Ashley started in August of 2025, and there were four or five instances of him saying that he was going to be. to do it and then he never actually did.
01:10:49 And at some point after all of this, Aaliyah said that she began giving him deadlines for telling his wife that it was over. And these deadlines came after he and Ashley's 15-year wedding anniversary cruise that they went on in August of 2025, which stirred up a lot of drama between Caleb and Aaliyah, as you can imagine.
01:11:10 I mean, she was extremely jealous and bitter that he went on that trip after he told her that he would try to get out of it by faking a letter to Ashley that the cruise had been canceled. What a dumb idea. How easy that would have been for her to realize that was untrue. So that's probably why he didn't end up doing it. But anyway, on that trip, Ashley actually caught Caleb texting Aaliyah.
01:11:34 So Ashley ended up texting Aaliyah. And she said, I'm thoroughly confused. We need to have a sit down when I get home. That never ended up happening, though, because Aaliyah said that she just knew, she could not face Ashley for what she had been doing. So she made up an excuse about being busy and whatever plan they had to get coffee actually never actually happened. So in total, Alia testified that Ashley found their messages two times.
01:12:02 And yeah, you could tell that this time in their relationship was rocky. Just listen to this voice message. Caleb sent her and heads up, the audio quality isn't the best. I don't know if this will go through service is horrible, but I wanted to send you this as text messaging just is horrible. Sorry, and I assumed wrong, and like I just texted. I don't know if you got it this week felt a lot like what we used to be, and I'm sorry I assumed anything. You are more than free and able and have every right to do what you want, and I am sorry. You know more than anybody that I love as hard as I know how and super protected.
01:12:53 You can do whatever the crap you want. That was wrong for going on a cruise. That was wrong for hurting you. And I'm literally crying in front of thousands of people, but I don't care. I'm sorry for hurting you. I'm sorry for everything. And I hope you have a great day today. Please do not.
01:13:13 Well, not that you're worrying about me, but I don't feel the need to. text. I know I yet again have made things work. It only comes out of just sheer absolute massive love for you. But until I can be released from her, I know that you do not have to do anything. I'm sorry. I'm going to text this to you and then I promise I'll delete everything. I may take a lot to go through just because of service here, but I do love you. And I'm I'm really sorry. So I hope you have a great service. And I love you. I love you very, very, very much. All I want to see it. So I'm sorry that my absolute desire and love and passion for you causes me just to lose it. So I'm sorry. I don't know if you caught it there, but Caleb said that he was going to delete everything. We're on. that brings me to a very crucial component of Aaliyah's testimony, which is the communication methods
01:14:23 between the two of them and their efforts to try and conceal them. So let's hear what she had to say about this. How did you in the defendant communicate with each other? At first it was I message, and then it was WhatsApp. Why to switch to WhatsApp? I message seemed to be too noticeable, like if somebody was seeing notifications coming up on our screen, or if Ashley were to look through his phone, the first place she would go was I-Message. In fact, at some point, she discovered an eye message between the two of you, correct? Yes.
01:14:55 What message was that? First time, I think it was last summer. He had deleted all the I-messages on his phone between us, but it was still on his iPad. So she was looking through his iPad while he was at work, and all the messages just popped up in front of her face, and it didn't have my name attached to it. What picture did the defendant tell you actually found?
01:15:15 A picture of my hand. and I drew a ring on it. What were you discussing in the messages around that photo? I was discussing how I wanted him to be my husband. What did you switch to after WhatsApp? Group me. Why would you switch messaging application? I can't fully remember why we switched from WhatsApp to group me.
01:15:33 But I do remember while we used WhatsApp. I think that was when she found our messages, and we kind of, I think we just freaked out and then moved to a different platform that seemed more protected. I think he had a pickleball group chat on there, so it was more justified if he was on GroupMe. When did you start using GroupMe to communicate with the defendant? I think it was last August or October.
01:16:01 So they started using these messaging apps to conceal their communications, and as we heard earlier, investigators found over 107,000 messages between the two of them. And according to Alia, they were deleting things daily out of fear of being. caught and they really thought no one was going to see any of that shit. She testified that she advised him to delete the data on his devices multiple times, including the night before Ashley's murder. And I think when you hear what the two of them were saying, you might wish you could delete it from your brain. Because they talked about their desires to be together, about Caleb
01:16:35 divorcing Ashley, and most concerningly, they both talked about wishing that Ashley was dead. And Caleb did appear to be the initiator of these messages being the one to reference murder, but she never tried to stop him. And she even sent some very hateful things herself. In your grouping communications, how often did the defendant express negative feelings about Ashley? Just about every day. Can you describe the nature of those expressions? He would say that he hated her, that he wanted her dead.
01:17:06 He would say so many awful things, I think, along the lives of hating her. wanting her debt, it was kind of the same thing. Who else said awful things about Ashley in those communications? I also said awful things about Ashley. Now, I'll share the specifics of their messages here shortly, but first, I want you to hear from Alia herself about the names that they called Ashley because they will be referenced in these messages. What names would he use to refer to Ashley?
01:17:34 When we first met, he said that she wasn't worthy of being called her first name, so he said, he said that we're going to refer to her as douchebag. What other names would he use to refer to her? Call her the B word. The B word. I'm sorry? The B word. What word is that? Bitch.
01:17:55 What else? I call her a whore. A slut. Spawn of Satan. What names would you use to refer to Ashley? I used most of those same names. So as she continued, Aliyah spoke about them seeing each other at least once a week,
01:18:10 and how they'd meet up at her apart. to have sex, and other times they'd do it in his truck in the parking lot of a Chipotle. Nothing more romantic than a parking lot of Chipotle. And she even said that when Ashley was instructing Bible camp, she and Caleb would call their time together marriage weeks. In one instance, she said that Caleb showed her the 9mm handgun that he kept in his center console. And we also heard that they had very adorable matching Harry Potter lightning bolt tattoos.
01:18:38 And Caleb put it in his armpit to try to. and conceal it. Nothing better than a nice Harry Potter pit tattoo, I always say. Then came the moment when she first revealed the specific nature of some of their messages, the ones about wanting Ashley to die. Take a listen. In your communications with the defendant, how many times did he express that he wished Ashley Flynn was not in his life? Every week at least. How often would he use words to the effect that he wanted or gone? Probably the same every week. How often would he make safe? about wanting Ashley to die? That's probably at least once a month.
01:19:17 Can you describe what he said when he was stating things about wanting Ashley to die? He said that he wishes he, if he could kill her and not go to jail or get arrested, forget exactly what he said, that he would do it. When's the first time you recall him making a statement like that? I think it was the end of last year after the fact that they went on their cruise. How did defendant's statements about wanting Ashley to take that? I continue over time. They definitely continued.
01:19:45 And it seemed like when he would say it, it just got worse the way he would say it. At first it was, I want her dad. I wish she was gone. And then it was, if I could kill her, not go to jail, I would. One night he was up really late thinking about, told me that he was thinking about ways to kill her. There will be plenty more messages where that came from, and believe me, each of them is worse than the next.
01:20:09 But before she was asked to read through them verbatim, which she did for hours, she first was asked to continue going through the timeline of their relationship and how it unraveled. Which brings me back to the cruise. Now, this seems like it was a major tipping point for the two of them, you could say. And like I said earlier, this is when the deadlines began.
01:20:31 Aaliyah testified that she was done being with someone who was married. But every time the deadline came, Caleb would tell her he didn't want to hurt his girls. And so she just kept pushing. that deadline. She did say there were times when the two of them wouldn't speak, but she always went back to him. That is until January of 26 when Alia testified that she was finally done for good. She told Caleb in December that he had until January 11th to leave his wife, or she was going to move on for good. But the 11th came and went, and he still wouldn't tell Ashley that he wanted
01:21:06 a divorce. So because of that, Alia cut off all communication with him until February 4. This time around when I had my second baby, I knew what to pack in my hospital bag. And one of the things that definitely was first on the list was my Nutriful. I couldn't wait to get back on it and start their postpartum blend because it helped me so much with my hair thinning and shedding after my daughter was born. And fall just feels like the perfect time for a reset. You know, new routines, better habits, a little more attention to the things that you may have put off over the summer. And if your hair could use a reset, let me tell you about. NutriFle. You guys know I love NutriFle. I've been using it since before they started sponsoring my show. It's
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01:23:09 See thicker, stronger, faster-growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months. Right now, Nutraful is offering my listeners, $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you visit Nutraful.com and enter promo code Kendall Ray. That's Nutriful.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code Kendall Ray. Now, she said that he reached out to her two or three times in that period,
01:23:39 and you guys, one of those times he sent her lyrics. I'm sorry, it's so ridiculous. and hilarious. But he sent her lyrics to a song that he wrote her, and she was asked to talk about, you know, what the song meant to her. And she says nothing now, but holy shit, that audio was played in court. And I really don't think I have ever seen a courtroom try to contain their laughter harder. It's unbelievably cringe. Now, it wasn't actually played during her testimony. It came out later during someone else's, but I'm going to play it now because it's just too good to wait. You have got to hear this if you haven't already. And there's actually two versions of the song,
01:24:25 and they're long. So I'll spare you and not play the second because it's just the same lyrics, just a different AI audio generation. But oof, this is rough. Okay, and this song is not him singing, this is AI. And this is Mr. American Idol, who apparently has a great voice. I don't know why he just didn't sing himself. But yeah, nothing more romantic than a nice AI song. This friend, that's what we said. It's late nights jokes in our head. That first time I saw you, the room disappeared. They said time is a thief.
01:29:33 Man, that makes me want to just throw up. Honestly, that makes me want to go get in the shower. Ugh, disgusting. Anyway, though, going back to Alia's testimony, okay? She continued by talking about when she finally messaged Caleb again after she ended it. And again, that was on Valentine's Day. They had sung together at church on that Saturday the 14th. And after the service, Caleb messaged her in a group chat with their boss saying that they needed to get together to talk.
01:30:00 And here's what she said happened next. What did the two of you do together after that? Saturday service. Yes, he texted that day. He said he needs to talk to us. So in my mind, I thought he was gone because he was upset that I ended things. So I personally messaged him outside of the group chow, my boss. And I said, are you going to cancel Easter? Why do you need to talk to us? He said it was because, he said it's not because of canceling Easter. It's because I'm finally free of Ashley. And I'm actually leaving her this time, something along the lines of that. And I just responded and I was like, you know, I don't believe you. And so that night,
01:30:45 I think I asked him if we could talk in person about it after service. Where did you talk in person? Next to the West Auditorium and at a table out in the open. This was at CLC? At CLC. What did the two of you discuss? He explained to me how he already had talked to her and he told her that he was divorcing her. Who's her? Ashley. And he said that she's not happy but that he was going to do it. And I said, I don't believe you. You've said this so many times and it's never happened. And I asked him, I said,
01:31:16 are you still willing to leave her knowing that there's a chance that I don't, I will never want to be with you again? How did he respond to that? He cried and asked me why. Why I never wanted to be with him again? And I told him that I don't trust him. And that I'm moving along with my life. What did you tell him in a text message on February 14th regarding your future plans?
01:31:35 That I had a date coming up. Now, for context, the weekend of Valentine's Day and Ashley's murder, Aaliyah was actually house sitting for the pastor at their church, Pastor Jordan Hanson. Okay? And this was ultimately her alibi for the night of the murder. She stated that after worship on Sunday the 15th, she went to her mom's house, where she stayed until 11.50 p.m. And then she made the 20 or so minute drive to Pastor Jordan's house, where she remained for the rest of the night into the following morning. And as we know, the early morning hours of the 16th is when
01:32:13 the murder occurred. And home security footage corroborated Alia's alibi, showing her arriving at the house at 1214 a.m. on February 16th, which lined up with the time it would have taken her to drive there from her mom's house. It also showed her leaving the following morning at 9.57 a.m. when she went to the Smith's residence after finding out what happened. And her phone also backs this up. Testimony would later confirm that it logged zero steps overnight and that her phone wasn't unlocked until the next morning. Although, despite there being no physical evidence tying her to the murder, there are definitely some people who still question her involvement. And I understand where people are coming from there. And I think a big reason for that has to do with their messages leading up to the murder.
01:32:58 Let's listen to Alia explain what happened. During your communications on February 14th and 15th of 2026, what did the defendant discuss with you regarding specific plans of his? He told me he was going to divorce Ashley on February 16th, and he was walking through the steps of what he was going to do in the morning, and he told me that he actually was going to do it this time, and that his actions will prove. Who is he going to talk to in the morning?
01:33:26 He was going to talk to Tom and Jill, tell them what's happening. He was going to talk to his girls. He was going to call Dave from the DF effect, which is my boss now. He was going to call him and ask him for a job. He was going to contact a hotel to be booked that day, and then he was going to move out all of his stuff. When did he tell you he was going to talk to the Smiths? First thing in the morning of February 16. What did he tell you about attempting to talk to them on the 15th?
01:33:54 I think he told me he tried to talk to them and they weren't home, or they had the girls or something along those lines. their discussion about Caleb getting a burner phone, which she said he wanted because he thought it would be safer for them to communicate on after he told Ashley that he was leaving. She said that they were worried about their phones being searched in the process of a divorce because then their affair would come to light and that could make things harder on Caleb. So this was their plan to still be able to communicate. Now, what's interesting to me is that we heard her say earlier that he already told her he wanted a divorce in their messages. about the whole Easter church saga.
01:34:34 And this, of course, doesn't change the fact that they wanted him to get a burner phone. I just thought that discrepancy was pretty strange. And actually, for Alia, she already had a burner, okay? So she testified back in January of 26. She took a solo trip to Clearwater, Florida, with her dog to clear her head. This was just after ending things with Caleb, so she said she wanted time to herself. Well, anyway, on that trip, her phone fell out of a kayak. the ocean, and even though she managed to retrieve it, it was completely broken. She also explained
01:35:06 that she left her laptop at the airport on the way home, and despite filing a report online, it was never recovered. Now, if you're thinking this sounds suspicious, I hear you. I completely understand why you would think that, and, you know, there's a part of me that does too, but testimony later in trial would corroborate the efforts that she made to fix her phone and to get her laptop top back. I definitely still have my own suspicions, in my opinion. I have to be careful from a legal standpoint and try to stick to the facts here as we're covering a trial, but I do think it's odd. Anyway, though, as she continued talking about her phone situation, Alia also shared that another member of their church gave her a phone to use until she could get a new one, but she said
01:35:51 that she was using both phones at the time of the murder. All that to say, Alia and Caleb spoke feverishly that night about him needing to get his own burner phone and about how he needed to delete all of the messages off his devices. And she even made several chat GPT searches related to this. She asked if their group me messages could be recovered. How Ohio divorce works and whether a court could see their Venmo transactions or find them in bank records. On February 15th, 2026, did you conduct any searches with chat? GPT? What were you searching for? I was afraid that if he got a divorce that actually would bring up the messages she saw between us. And for some reason, I thought that maybe they would
01:36:39 search warrant her phone, or his phone, sorry, if she did bring that up. So I was really worried that, again, I was worried about my reputation. I was worried about losing my job. And so I was sending Caleb chat to BT screenshots of how to fully delete all the messages from him. After this, Alia continued answering questions about their communications that night, and this is when some of Caleb's most damning messages were revealed. On the evening of February 15th, 2026, how did you continue to communicate with the defendant? Group me. What was he telling you? That he was going to divorce for the next day.
01:37:17 What did he mention about deleting applications from his phone? He said he was going to delete root me from his phone on the morning of the 16th. What did he mention? about wiping or resetting devices? I think he said again that he wiped and reset his iPad. What statements did he make about February 16th, 20206? He said it'll be a day I never forget. Did he say it's happening?
01:37:45 He did say it's happening, the divorce. Did he say actions will come tomorrow? Yes. What did you understand actions tomorrow to meet? A divorce. What time if your communications with the defendant, end on the night of February 15, 2026? 12-something a.m.
01:38:01 What was the last thing he said to you that night? I think it was something like good night. Tomorrow's a big day. I got to get to bed. You remember him saying, I choose you? Yes. And about to be free? Yes.
01:38:16 How could you be free of Ashley if the defendant and he were going to co-parent their two young daughters during and after a divorce? I think you just met from the relationship. Then she talked about the next morning. when she found out what happened. When did you wake up on February 16th, 2026, the day of Ashley's murder? Around 8 a.m.
01:38:34 When did you expect to hear from the defendant that day? First thing in the morning. When did you learn about a crime at the Flynn residence? I received a random direct message on Instagram from a random congregant who goes to CLC. And what did you learn from that message? He said, did you hear about Mrs. Flynn? How did you respond? I said, what are you talking about?
01:38:56 What did you do it? time? My heart started pounding and it just it seemed like too much of a coincidence that the day he's divorcing her, she's just dead all of a sudden. And so I think I called my boss and I asked if he's heard about it. He said he was at the Smiths along other staff and that I should come over there. Did you send any messages to the defendant? I did. What is you saying those messages? I said, I said something like, Caleb, what's going on? Were you involved? Is this real? Did he respond to those messages? No.
01:39:34 Why did you delete that message you sent to the defendant on the morning of February 16th? Because since there was a murder involved, I knew that they would probably be searching his phone, and if they saw any messages between us anywhere, the affair would be found out. Then came the shocking testimony of Alia reading through that. their messages verbatim and just buckle up, you guys. And this went on for literal hours. So obviously I can't include it all, but I'm going to share, you know, the worst of it, the most damning moments.
01:40:07 And just FYI, these messages were also read chronologically. So we're going to jump back in the timeline and work our way forward. Caleb on February 11th of 2025 says, why can't it be you? Why couldn't I met you and married you and had kids with you? I said on the same day, oh lover, he said, on the same day, I want to take my girls and run away and never come back. I said, on the same day, I have the same gut-wrenching thoughts when I see families, happy couples, etc. Please, baby, I would do this in a heartbeat, freaking leave it all. I said on the same day, I'd do anything.
01:40:44 Caleb said on the same day, I need her to die, to cheat again, to leave. Caleb said on February 16th of 2025, sorry I'm short, I hate douche. I want to be with my girls, but I don't want to be anywhere near her because, one, I hate her, and two, I know it hurts you. I said on February 19th of 2025, what do you want me to do? And how did Caleb respond? Marry me. How did you respond?
01:41:11 I said, ah, no, all caps. And what did he say in 58, 39? He said, kill douche. I said, oh man, please. I said on March 8th of 2025, I hate her. I've never hated anyone like I do her. I said that on the same day. I said, on the same day, I hate the thoughts she causes in my head.
01:41:31 Caleb said on the same day, I'm sorry what she does to both of us, but mostly you. I hate her as well, and I want her gone. He said on the same day, I don't give her anything and we'll continue that. I said, good, I'd be utterly broken if I ever found out you did somehow. Caleb said on March 9th, 2020. I know sweetheart, I know I don't receive or take things as I don't want anything that she has to offer ever. I hate her. Caleb said, I make you hurt more than I make you happy and can you honest to say this is what you want and what you see for your life to have to sneak around,
01:42:01 to not be able to love publicly and to hurt at all times knowing my situation. I want you, Alia, as my wife and the mother of my kids, but what do I do? How do I escape this? I said, I don't know Caleb, you have to find a way. He said, I want her dead and gone. He said on March 24th of 2025, because she doesn't give a rat's ass. I said, on the same day, hear me, I love you more than anything in this world. I said, and you haven't lost me yet. I said, what can I do? And he said, kill her.
01:42:32 He said on March 26th of 2025, I already miss you like crazy and I hate her ever-living guts. He said on March 15th of 2025, I'm sorry, gosh, I'm sorry, I want her dead and gone. I said, I've never wished that upon someone, but have more than ever with her. I said I love you Caleb I just want you all to myself He said I want all of you and not have to worry about sneaking around He said On May 9th 25 I'm sorry you're feeling this way this morning
01:42:59 I 100% believe the enemy will do everything he can to distort and poison our minds He has already done at times He wants more than anything to cause resentment Doubt and hatred to poison our souls to hinder us All I can do is assure you that I'm not lying to you I'm not sleeping in that bed I don't want to nor will I ever I'm sorry that, again, that you're in your head so much.
01:43:19 I hate her. I will always hate her. And I know it's hard knowing things. You're wanting to ask about every detail. I wanted to ask things as well. My mind wanders all the time as well. But I'm sorry. I'm sorry you're hurting and all that you have to go through with all this.
01:43:32 Now, during this part of the testimony, the prosecutor played several videos that Caleb had sent to her. And he used these videos to prove to her that he was home alone because she was so neurotic about him spending any time with Ashley. So here's one of them. Hey, babe, I am so sorry to hear about mussels in your car, but I wanted to show you that I am home alone. I'm not sure if you want to see the puppies, but...
01:44:00 If anybody's listening, I love Aaliyah Botner. I love her, and I'm home alone. Do you love Aaliyah? Do you want to see Aaliyah? You want to see Aaliyah? please continue your excitement. There is, yes, you won't see it. So her first day of testimony
01:44:19 wrapped up after this, but it picked back up on Thursday morning, and that's when she continued reading their messages. And that brings us to day five. Caleb said on May 16th, 25, I do care when I was hurting yesterday. I didn't throw out statements like that, but I should
01:44:34 be used to that by now. I'm sorry, this sucks. I hate this in my life in this situation more than anything in the world. If I could literally kill her and not go to hell, I would do it in a heartbeat. When he said, if I could literally kill her and not go to hell, who is he talking about? Ashley. I said on June 12th, 25, I need you. Caleb said, please hire someone to take douche out. I need you in my life. I need you. I said, so tempting. I can't live without you. And I've had this thought so often lately, how do we figure this out? I said I genuinely
01:45:05 can't picture my future any other way. June 12th, 25, life with you and loving you is so easy and just makes sense. I've fallen so madly in love. I don't want to settle for anything less. He said, we have to get rid of douche. I need you. You're my everything. I said, I don't even want to say this in a joking way anymore. We need a solution. Caleb, we need it to be me and you forever and no exceptions. He said, I've never joked about it. I said on July 10th, 25, baby, I miss you so much already. I said, how do we do this? He said, I honestly and truly don't know. I said, do you know how badly I want to say, F it to any rules and any barriers and just love you with my entire heart for the rest of my life. I just wish I didn't say this. I didn't mean it. It says I want to
01:45:50 kill her, Caleb. Who said that? Me. I said it's so bad. He said that makes two of us. Hearing her say all of that made me feel fucking sick. I mean, it's one thing to knowingly begin a relationship with a married man, a married father, mind you, but that, my God, it's disgusting and it just keeps going. Caleb said on August 22nd, 25, I cannot stop crying. Those are not just words. I'm truly lost in nothing without you. I hear and understand everything you're saying. You have every right to feel the way you do. The timing of this effing cruise was the worst ever and I cannot say, I'm sorry enough. I know that is still not enough, but I've said it before, but I have, I have to say it again.
01:46:33 I didn't go to hurt you. I didn't go for her. I only went because I felt the Lord asked me to stop being disobedient and trying to control things. But, Alia, I'm sorry I went. I thought the Lord would honor that what I did as being obedient, but it has truly made things awful. I'm not blaming the Lord or anything, but it has ruined everyone. I know that. I'd give anything in the world to have you again and to be friends and, like you said,
01:46:53 hold each other, but I know this trip in the presence of douche has ruined it all. It's more than I can actually bear. I'm sorry I've hurt you. I was up until 4 a.m. last night crying and literally thinking, of ways to kill her and not go to jail. On August 22nd, 25, I said it would change everything, Caleb. I'm not asking that you take her life, obviously, because that's not what you should do,
01:47:13 and I know you actually wouldn't. But to make the divorce happen, it would change everything. As these messages continued, we heard a ton of fighting between the two of them, especially regarding the January 11th deadline that Caleb missed. We also heard Caleb absolutely spiral about the date she said she was going on in March and he begged her for one more chance. However, she continued to say she didn't trust that
01:47:37 he'd follow through with the plan, but he reassured her for quite a long time that he definitely was going to do it. He even told her on February 15th that he went to lunch to practice what he was going to say when he told Ashley's parents. And here she is explaining their final conversation hours before the murder. He said, I want to say so much, but I won't. I pray for you still every night and we'll pray for your mind right now. Protection in Jesus' name. I said, thank you. Make sure you are sure about your decision tomorrow
01:48:08 and where in your to-do list are you packing your things. He said, I'm sure, but I'll let you know if anything changes, but it won't. I said, what do you mean you'll let me know if anything changes? I said, gosh, this is the same story every time why even say that, Caleb?
01:48:21 He said, no. I said, why even say that? Like it's an option, like it's in your mind. He said, my bad seriously, you have asked me several times if I'm sure and if I want to do this. And so I just responded with a poor choice of words. It's not an option.
01:48:34 He said, please no, I didn't mean anything by that. I'm so sorry. I said, I'm sure. And in parentheses, but he said, no buts. Are you in bed? I said, I'm going to sleep. He said, okay, thank you again for all your help today. I'll get a burner phone first thing
01:48:51 and contact you from that. And then after every update, I said, let's go to sleep. Keep me posted. Good night. my heart is so fragile you aren't careful i've been burnt far too many times that i've deserved he said man not sure not how i wanted to sleep the night before the hardest day of my life but i'll continue to apologize i'm not changing my mind it was never thought i want you alia i want to
01:49:14 do this i want a chance he said i'm sorry i even said it it was a stupid comment that came off wrong and i'm so sorry seriously i'm so sorry i wasn't meaning to be careless i said you just have to be careful. I literally just communicated 10 minutes ago how terrified I am that you aren't going to follow through tomorrow like every other time. You've got my hopes up again. We'll see what happens. Let's drop it. He said, I will be more careful. I'm sorry. I said just all feel so familiar. Okay. He said, you will see tomorrow. Well, actually today now. I've already made the first step and talk to her. Now it's her family. Then you and Josh publicly. Then Jordan. It's happening, Alia. He said, thank you for everything today. I said, you're welcome. Get some sleep.
01:49:54 and sleep in. He said, all right, I'll talk to you as soon as I get a phone. February 16th, day I'll never forget. I said, you're about to be free. He said, I choose you, Alia, you're more than enough. Good night. Then came the morning of Ashley's murder. And actually, before Alia found out what had happened, she sent Caleb a message. And they had actually made a plan for her to not message him first that morning, but she did. Hey, I know you said not to text first, but real quick, when you get the burner, you will have to text this number, and I gave him my burner number. Not my normal one. I still have my burner, so it's complicated. I can only receive I messages with my old number. And that was sent at 7.50 a.m. on February 16th? Yes. And you deleted that message later?
01:50:41 I did. After this was when she said she received that DM from someone at their church, and that's when she texted Caleb, I just saw the news. Someone told me to say, to pray for Miss Flynn. What is going on right now, in all caps? Were you behind this? What is going on? Is this real? And this message was deleted too.
01:51:05 Afterwards, she went to Ashley's parents' house, and that's when she saw Caleb for the first time and just listen to what he said. Why did you go to the Smith? Because that morning I called my boss. He said he was there, and that it would be a good idea for me to come over there, too, because all the staff was there for the Flins and the Smiths.
01:51:27 What did the defendant tell you about the early morning hours of February 16th, 2025 when we were at the Smith's house? When I walked in, he didn't see me at first. He came over and hugged me. And then the first thing he said to me was it didn't happen the way we thought it would, did it. Then she got into what Caleb told her happened to Ashley, and his story was different. I mean, every other time that he has told people his story, he said that he fell asleep in the girl's room, right? And that's where he awoke to the sound of gunshots.
01:52:01 But to Alia, he told her he fell asleep on the couch and not because he was sick. What else say to tell you? And I said, Caleb, how did this happen? Do you not have cameras in your house? How did you not know someone was breaking into your house? I was asking him just a lot of questions and really one of the ones. how this happened and I was just very suspicious. How did you tell you that happened?
01:52:27 He said he was sleeping on the couch because he always told me he never slept in bed with her. He said he was sleeping on the couch that he woke up the first time from the dog shivering and he thought it was weird but then he went back to sleep and then the second time he woke up was from a gunshot. He said that he ran straight to the garage door, saw that it was wide open and then went into the looked into Ashley's room and he said he saw blood everywhere. And he said he'll never forget that site. So that finally concluded her direct examination. And if you're exhausted, same.
01:53:01 Next up, though, cross-examination. Well, guys, it's that time of year. And if you're a parent, you especially dread this time of year. It is sixth season. And while there are a lot of great things that come during this time of the year, you know, I love Halloween. I love the holidays. But being sick, ugh, not one of my faves.
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01:54:06 and created a powerful chewable multivitamin that packs a blend of 12 organic fruits and vegetables, plus 15 essential vitamins and minerals into every chewable. We're talking vitamin D, B12, C, zinc, folate, all the foundational nutrients that support immune health and the rapid growth that kids go through. And if you've got teens in the house too, Haya just launched a teen daily multivitamin, and it's honestly overdue in this category. It's not just a bigger dose of the kids formula. It's built specifically for that next chapter. Age is 13 and up. It packs 15 plus vitamins and minerals in bioavailable methylated forms, B12, B6, and fully. In the forms the body doesn't have to work as hard to convert. Plus, Mayo and Asidol, which most teen vitamins skip entirely, and vitamin D3 paired with K2 to support bone health during those big growth years. It's zero sugar, it's sweetened with monk fruit, and it's got that same refullable glass bottle and decal pack that the rest of the Haya line has.
01:55:01 We've worked out a special deal with Haya. Receive 50% of your first order of any of their products. To claim this deal, you must go to Hiahealth.com slash T-C-KR. This deal is not available on their regular website. Go to H-I-Y-A-H-E-A-L-T-H-H-T-H-H-KR and get your kids the full-body support they deserve. Thankfully, her cross-examination wasn't quite as long. and during it the defense had a few major goals, okay? A, to reframe the text messages as figurative language.
01:55:38 B, to establish Aaliyah as the emotionally volatile and jealous one. C, to challenge Aaliyah's credibility, and D, to express doubts that she was thoroughly investigated. Now, for that first point, the defense was trying to make the jury see that despite his language, Caleb never actually meant the horrific things he said. Alia even admitted that when they were talking about wanting Ashley dead, she didn't mean it, and she didn't think Caleb did either. And when she was asked whether she took his messages about being free and taking action to mean murder, she said never. Would you agree that there are more messages than the ones that you've read in the 107,000, where you have talked about how much you've hated Ashley? Yes.
01:56:26 Would you agree that there are more? messages in the 107,000 other than the ones that you have read where you have wished that Ashley was gone. Are there more that where you have demanded that Ashley be gone? I always met divorce, but yes. You made a comment during direct examination that when you had said that you wanted to kill Ashley that you didn't mean it. And at the time, you didn't believe that Caleb. meant it either when he said it. I did not believe he meant it, no.
01:57:03 And why didn't you believe he meant it? I don't think you could ever be capable of doing something like that. On the point of establishing Aaliyah as being the more emotionally volatile one, the defense called attention yet again to her messages, which, by the way, she sent twice as many messages to him as he sent to her. She read a bunch more texts, including one about Caleb murdering her heart and taking her virginity and stomping all over it. They also pointed out that Caleb was not the sole driver of the hatred towards Ashley,
01:57:35 but Alia was just as, if not more, expressive about her feelings. In fact, they argued that Caleb only said those things to appease her, which Alia said might have been true. Throughout the time that you've been on the sand, you've expressed that you have an understanding that Caleb was telling you lies to make you feel better? Yes. But in your opinion, at the time that he is saying that he hates Ashley, is he saying that as a lie to make you feel better? He might have been. And as for challenging her credibility, the defense wanted the jury to see her as an unreliable witness, of course,
01:58:12 and the fact that she lied to the FBI was a huge point in their playbook. Plus, the fact that Alia never went to the police with her suspicions or told anyone that she thought he may have done this until after the FBI showed up at her mom's house, and then came the devices. The defense pointed to her lost devices from that Clearwater trip, and although she claimed to have made an effort to repair her phone,
01:58:37 she said she didn't have the documentation to prove it. Like I said earlier, though, proof of these efforts would later be found on her devices in the forensic examination, so, you know, that kind of defeated their point there. But on the defense's lack of investigating Aaliyah point, they did get her to confirm that police never searched her apartment or car and that they never took DNA or fingerprints from her. You only had two interviews with law enforcement in February?
01:59:05 With the FBI, yes? Yes. Did you have interviews with any other law enforcement entities? In February? At all. I don't think so. Just those two in February. The 20th and the 26th?
01:59:18 Yes. I've had a lot of meetings with prosecution. Just police. Okay. Yes. Did law enforcement ever search your apartment? No. Did they ever search your vehicle?
01:59:28 No. Did they ever collect your DNA? No. Did they ever collect your fingerprints? No. Her Google searches following the murder were also revealed on cross-examination, and I thought they were worth mentioning. On February 17th and 19th, she searched,
01:59:43 wife being murdered and no suspect found. Homicides in America that still remain unsolved. And she also searched for her name and after. And I know that was a lot to take in, but that does conclude Alia's testimony. Okay? So moving on. Her time on the stand was followed up by a digital forensic analyst named Joseph Wilhelm, who examined about 12 devices in total. His testimony centered around the extraction of Caleb's devices, including things that had been deleted or removed from his phone. And he also played a big role in the prosecution's accusation that he was awake and moving when he was. he said he was sleeping.
02:00:24 Did you examine the Safari browsing history from Caleb Flynn's icon? I did. When did the available browsing history begin? The available browsing history began on 215, 2016, at 306 p.m. When did it end? It was available until 216, 2026 at 0.022 hours or midnight, 22 hours. What were you able to discover regarding the use of the Safari browser in normal versus
02:00:58 private browsing mode? So I saw there were other artifacts available outside of that time frame that indicate that either the browsing history had been deleted at some point or it may have been exclusively used in incognito mode until the history was available. Is it normal for Safari browsing history to be limited to a short or recent time frame when older history exists in other files? It can be depending upon how often the user deletes their data, their history, or if they're using device in Kavita mode.
02:01:42 What are possible explanations for the gap in browsing history? So the user either deleted the data or it was being used in in Kavita mode. The safari application on your phone doesn't provide a way for the history to be deleted automatically like it does on your computer. It also revealed that no messages between him and Ashley existed and that several apps were removed from his phone leading up to what happened. How many text messages did you recover between Caleb and Ashley's phone? There were no messages on this phone between the two of them. How did your analysis uncover interaction between this device and Grimmy messages sent to and received by Alia's GroupMe account.
02:02:25 So on this particular phone, there were no GroupMe artifacts. There were GroupMe artifacts that show that GroupMe at one time was installed on the phone, but there were no longer any group me messages. Did you examine artifacts showing applications that had been uninstalled from the device? I did. What application was uninstalled on February 14, 26, at approximately 9.10 p.m. It was an app called AI Music Song Generator. What application was uninstalled on February 15th at 305?
02:03:00 Chat GPT. What application was uninstalled on February 16 at 101 a.m? It was the GroupMe application. What application was uninstalled on February 16th, 2026 at approximately 102 a.m? Instagram. His biggest findings, though, relate to Caleb's movements inside the house leading up to Ashley's murder, and I want to start with the evening of February 15th. Fitting his account of being sick, Caleb made a search
02:03:29 just after 3 p.m. on the 15th for best cough medicine for adults. Then Caleb's phone began to move. What were the locations of the defendant's iPhone on February 15th, 2026? Starting at approximately 5.49 p.m. So at approximately 5.49 p.m., the device departed, the area of of 932 Cunningham Court and Tip City. Between 552 and 555, it stopped of the area of Circle K on County Road 25A. At approximately 555, it continued to travel north on the County Road 25A past the YMCA.
02:04:07 At 603 to 643, it was at or near the YMCA. At 650 until 650, it stopped in the area of CVS and Tip city and then at 6.59 it returned to the area of 932 Cunningham court. And after it returned to the Flint residents, the approximately 6.50 p.m. on February 15. Did the location data indicate the device left that area before February 16th? The location data remained at that residence for this device until device left the residence to go to the Tip City Police Department with the defendant. And when was that approximately? like 4.15 in the morning.
02:04:50 So his phone remained at the residence after 6.50 p.m. And we previously learned that he had spent much of that evening texting with Alia. And their last message was sent at 12.45 a.m. Well, according to Wilhelm's testimony, Caleb's phone was plugged in and locked on the charger from 107 to 2.30 a.m. But according to Caleb's Apple Health data, which received input from his aura ring, Apple Watch, and iPhone, it appears as though he may not have been sleeping. What types of devices recorded health data in the Apple Health database? In the time frame of interest, there was an R-ring, there was an Apple Watch, and there was the iPhone itself.
02:05:32 Did you find heart rate information from an R-R-R-ring? I did. When was the last time heart-rate information was recorded from the R-R-R-R-R-Ring on February 15th? It was at 10.50 p.m. and 29 seconds. When did heart rate information from an Apple Watch first appear in the data rates on February 16th, 2026? The first time Apple reported that heart rate information occurred from the watch was at 133 a.m. and three seconds. What was the final recorded heart rate from the Apple Watch on February 16th, 20206? The last reported heart rate from the watch was at 2.10 a.m. and a.
02:06:16 11 seconds. What are we looking at here? That's the same table. So that summarizes that heart rate data you were just talking about? Yes, that's the heart rate data. After 2.10 a.m. was any additional heart rate data recorded from the Apple Watch? No. What are you able to tell from this data? So this data to me as a digital forensic examiner just means that the watch was being worn at the times that those heart rates were taken. And I gotta say, what a dummy that he had his aura ring and his Apple Watch on during all of this.
02:06:53 God, people are so stupid. Although, again, we love stupid because stupid gets caught and stupid goes to jail. In addition to his heart rate data, there was also significant findings about the steps he reportedly took during that time. Did the Apple Health database also record
02:07:08 step activity from the Apple Watch? I didn't. What was the first step activity reported from the Apple Watch on February 16th, 2026? The first step data recorded was an event that began at 119 a.m. and 46 seconds. It was reported from Caleb's Apple Watch that 18 steps were taken. How many steps were recorded on the Apple Watch from 119 and 46 seconds to 119 and 48 seconds? 18 steps.
02:07:41 And from 122.09. 22.09 a.m. to 122.45 a. 18 steps. From 123.23 a.m. to 123.36 a.m. 34 to 156.355. 252.40 to 156 35. 21 steps. And from 218.37 to 228.11. 105 steps. After 228-11, what device recorded the next step activity? The next step activity? The next step activity was reported from Caleb's phone. Why would step data switch from the Apple Watch to the iPhone at that time? The health database is capable of having both devices report step data simultaneously.
02:08:27 In this particular case, there's no additional data found on the phone after approximately 28 from the watch. So it suggests the watch may not have been warned any longer. After this, there was a lot of talk about Caleb's AirPods, which have never been recovered. The case was found on his bedside table, but never the pods themselves. And the data from that was interesting. It showed his phone's audio switching between the AirPods and the speaker eight times, between 23 a.m. and 2.30 a.m. And the AirPods registering as in-ear at 2.29 a.m. About a minute and a half before the 911 call connected. And it was also interesting
02:09:10 that the final disconnect didn't happen until about 20 minutes after the 911 call. I'm just very curious about the AirPods in general and why they've never been found or how they played a role in all of this. I've got lots of questions related to the AirPods. And I want to know mainly what he needed the AirPods for, right? Like, they never really explained that. I don't know if they fully understand. Part of me wonders if he didn't want to hear what was going on or needed music to sort of sounds really disturbing, but like pump himself up or he was trying to block out the noise. I don't know. It's really, really odd. But anyway, more damning facts continued to come to light as the trial pushed into Friday. And his testimony continued
02:10:00 first thing that morning. So that brings us to day six. This is when we learned more about Aaliyah's devices, including that no step data was reported throughout the night, and her phone reported consistent findings with when she woke up and when she found out about the murder. Then we heard about more Google searches made by Caleb, and they were just too good not to share you guys. Do you find any relevant browsing history on that laptop? I did. What Google searches did you find on February 18th? 2026.
02:10:36 Do fire sticks have cameras? Can an iPhone record video with the screen off? If an iPhone is off and charging, could it record video? Clearly he was worried about some secret video being recorded, but not worried enough that he couldn't check out what Alia was up to. On February 19th, his laptop was used at 801 a.m. to look up her Instagram. I mean, this dude is relentless.
02:11:04 Anyway, As for his cross-examination, Joseph had to make a few concessions. He stated and confirmed that data shows connections, not locations, heart rate data can't show whether someone is awake, sleeping, or dreaming. Rolling over can count as steps. Data could be reliable, but it also could be unreliable. The AirPod report was very unreliable for false in-ear readings, and that nobody ever asked Apple to verify these devices.
02:11:34 Still, though, I think his testimony went a long way, as did the testimony of FBI Special Agent Andrea Kinzig, who took the stand next, and she made four major points for the prosecution. First, that Ashley's phone was plugged in and locked at 11.20 p.m., consistent with her going to sleep. Her phone did show activity at 205 a.m., however, it was determined that this was an automatic iOS update run by Apple. She also had no reported steps after 11 p.m. And second, she spoke more about the deleted items from Caleb's phone. A BCI analyst had sent Google a preservation request from his Gmail on February 16th, which was retrieved four days later and in those four days, about six emails were deleted. And these emails related to the Snoop report that I mentioned earlier. Third, Kinzig testified that the family's blink camera system went offline on January 26th,
02:12:29 20 days before the homicide. They had three cameras, a front door, a back door, and a living room. And all of those were connected to an account created in October of 2021. And fourth, she ruled out a tip that had been made regarding a hit on Ashley's life. Now, I mentioned a tip on Caleb's life earlier, and this was different. And I don't want to spend much time here because, as we heard in the testimony, investigators didn't find it to be credible anyway. But of course, the defense really picked this apart during cross-examination because
02:12:59 they argued it wasn't thoroughly investigated. I don't really have much to say on that, though. It makes sense that they would argue that, but yeah, there's really nothing to that. But anyway, before getting more into her cross-examination, though, there were a few more quick learnings from her direct testimony, including Ashley had searched, can your eye cloud get hacked? And could someone hack into your eye cloud and create a fake conversation? Nothing suggested Ashley was worried about her safety, and she had no significant conflicts with
02:13:28 anyone except her husband. There was no evidence that Ashley was having an affair. Some messages between Ashley and Caleb had been deleted from her phone, but investigators couldn't say when or by whom. And on January 21st, Caleb texted Ashley he was at worship and asked if he could call her back later, to which Ashley replied, you can be honest. Is it her? Which obviously points to her knowledge of the affair. Cross-examination-wise, there was a lot of focus on Caleb's loving messages to Ashley, which honestly just pissed me off so much. It's such a waste of time because saying a few I love you's here and there doesn't mean that you're not capable of murder. There was also a focus on the messages where the two of them discussed being sick,
02:14:11 which corroborated his story of why he'd need to sleep on the couch. And then as for the blink camera stuff, special agent Kinzig couldn't say who unplugged the devices, which is frustrating. Then we heard from the neighbor, Jordan Hansen, who authenticated his, ring doorbell footage, as well as from Jordan himself, who corroborated that Alia was house-sitting that weekend. And last to take the stand Friday was Detective Sergeant Mike Morgan. His time on the stand was critical, because that's when Caleb's initial two interviews with the police were played. Both interviews were conducted on February 16th in the hours following
02:14:48 Ashley's murder. The first began at 4.28 a.m. and the other just after 12.30 p.m., during which Caleb was asked a lot of questions about the timeline and his version of events. So let's finally hear from Caleb himself about what he claims happened. Take me to the point where you guys are laying down with girls. I think you stopped there. We put the girls out and went out in the living room. Watched up. She's reading something on her phone.
02:15:20 She reads books on her phone. At Jurassic Park on, till 11. Because I've been in your bedroom. living home. Oh, you and her around the living room? Yeah. And I remember seeing us on my gosh, it's already 11th. So we went into the bedroom. It was asleep and I took coffee. It's because she said, you might
02:15:42 cause it. So I did. I fell asleep. I took some equate or something to try and knock me out. And it wasn't until later on that I heard on the dog. move. I thought that it was because one of my daughter had gotten up.
02:16:04 They get up to go to the bath and get water. And that's when I got up. And I walked in the bedroom and just tucked them in. So you heard somebody in the house? I heard the dog. Okay, so you heard the dog. The dog woke me up. They shook.
02:16:23 And then I just went into the room to check on my girls. and I lay down on the bottom book with my youngest just for a little bit. So that's what I'm very enough. As he continued through his crocodile tears, he revealed plenty of interesting things, including the mention of a suspicious salesman who supposedly showed up at their house on Saturday, the 14th Valentine's Day.
02:16:49 On Saturday, she said that, she said, Galentines with the girls, Valentine's with girls, with your daughter. Yes, while I was at church. And she said that they were dancing to something, and she saw a car in the driveway. This was all Saturday. And I even talked to my girls about it tonight before they went to bed because I was asking.
02:17:15 She said she saw a car in the driveway, and then there was just through our glass windows, she could see someone just staying there, but not knocking on the door, just standing there. So she opened it and some guy went into some weird sales pitch for America. This was on Saturday. That was. I don't know.
02:17:39 She didn't say, she didn't, yes. And she said he didn't have a, like a salesman shirt or the logos. And he gave a flag and said, will you waive this for my boss? So she waited it. And then he's like, okay, I'll be right back. And she said, well, no, I'm going to go. And we got busy. We're busy and that was it.
02:18:06 That's the only thing I know. She said he had long hair. Long hair. And that... Any certain build? No, she just said he went rough. But then when he said, I'm going to come back. She said, no.
02:18:22 We're busy. And he said, well, I'll come back. later, and then she shut the door. Really, dude, a rough-looking salesman coming to the house the same weekend, not even the same day, as someone was murdered. Really, Caleb, that is a stretch if I've ever heard one. And that wasn't the only story like that either. When asked if he knew anyone that had problems with them, he said no. He said everyone loved Ashley.
02:18:49 But he mentioned that a man once showed up at her job at Lifewise. and when he wasn't let into the building, the man said, I know where you live. Caleb didn't know if he said that to Ashley or to someone else, but he was insinuating, in my opinion that this guy possibly could have done something. I mean, he is just throwing, what is it, shit spaghetti at the wall, seeing what sticks? I don't remember the phrase, but he is grasping at straws. But the detectives obviously were not buying it, right? Less than 10 minutes into his first interview, Caleb was literally saying that he constantly
02:19:21 deleted messages on his phone. including messages between him and Ashley because it takes up storage. And I understand some people do that when they are constantly having trouble with storage, but to delete them like every day. I find that really hard to believe. I'm sure there are people out there who do that. But I don't know, who deletes messages with their spouse because it takes up space on the daily? I don't know.
02:19:43 Maybe some of you out there do that. I thought it was really strange. Last year during the winter months, I was pregnant and I was miserable. I was really hot. and I was living in my skim's pajamas and loungewear because it's so stretchy, it's so comfortable, and it's also nice and cooling during the night. I'm a big pajama girl. I feel like I sleep so much better when I sleep in good fabrics.
02:20:12 And so I put on a set of pajamas pretty much every night. I always go to sleep cold and then I end up hot during the night, so I like a long-sleeved pajama set throughout the year. And my skim sets are some of my favorites in my pajama collection, and ones that I reach for all the time. In fact, I slept in my Skims' pajamas last night. I'm not kidding. I love them so much.
02:20:32 They have lasted me years. The set I slept in last night, this is now the third year that I've had them for. They're just fantastic. Everything I've ever owned from Skims is fantastic, actually. In fact, I am wearing their bra today. I don't think I own any other brands of bras anymore, actually. I wear skims bras every single day.
02:20:49 Their loungewear and pajamas is fantastic. You're going to want to check them out for yourself. shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After your place your order, be sure to let them know I sent you. Select podcast in the survey and be sure to select my show in the drop-down menu that follows. But another thing that was discussed in both interviews was his reaction time to calling 911. There was some back and forth on what he said, but Caleb ultimately stated that it took in between two and five minutes before calling 911. He said the reason for that delay was because he ran to Ashley in the bedroom, shook her leg,
02:21:29 and then turned on the lights to see what happened. He then says he ran to the pitch black living room where his phone was located, and at some point he had observed the garage door open, the one leading into the house, not the damaged side door, which he said he closed. We also got clarity on the what he saw versus what he heard dilemma. In both interviews, he reported hearing two gunshots, and in the second interview, he mentioned that he never actually saw the wounds. And again, I know that was something that I was very curious about in my last episode.
02:22:04 I really was having trouble understanding. And again, it kind of requires believing his story for this to matter, but I thought I would loop it in anyway. Now, in his second interview, Detective Morgan was definitely a lot more pointed in his questions. By that point, he was calling out a lot of the things that just didn't make sense. It looks like there was possibly a tool mark used on the strike plate. The door where the door latches, it looks bent. You know, obviously we may be able to match tool marks with, you know, if we find the tool or anything like that.
02:22:48 Then also there was damage to the inside of the door as far as like it looked like it had been, blown out a little bit like when it was pushed open but that seems you know different from what I would think would happen because the door wasn't latched so that doesn't necessarily make a whole lot of sense to me yeah and then it appears that whoever did this was standing pretty close to your wife It appears that she was laying there sleep. In all my time of being in law enforcement 16 years, plus my training and experience, normally when somebody is murdered, there's a motive, okay? And there's a lot of different reasons, you know what I mean?
02:23:46 Like in my time, there's been financial, there's been, you know, different things, you know, marital problems, whatever. You know what I'm saying? And I'm still trying to figure out what those motives would be sure for somebody to do this. That basically, you know, nearly a point-link range.
02:24:09 Detective Morgan also straight up called out that if there was something on their devices, it would be found. And Caleb was even given a chance to come clean at least with the devices and say if they would find anything, but he revealed nothing. Even when he was asked if there were problems in his relationship, he literally said none whatsoever.
02:24:30 He definitely tried to walk it back a little bit, but generally speaking, he tried to paint the picture that they were a happy couple with very little problems. And interestingly, he wasn't asked about the affair in either interview, and granted, they didn't know about Aaliyah because that rumor had not yet been exposed. But normally they ask if there's any extramarital affairs going on and stuff in interviews like this. So I thought that was kind of interesting, not too bizarre, but yeah, just wanted to note that. But other interesting findings from these interviews include the facts that Caleb said he was scrolling Twitter before bed, but we know he was texting Alia. He also claimed nobody, beside Ashley and the girls, knew where he kept the gun, the one in his center console. And he mentioned that he felt like they were already blaming him for this. The rest of his testimony resumed on Monday morning,
02:25:24 and they played the third interview with Caleb, which was conducted on February 19th. And the audio on this video is really hard to hear, so I'm just going to describe it as I'm playing it, but in the beginning, Caleb was asked to draw a diagram of the residence and where he was throughout the night. He also went over the timeline again, mentioning that Ashley was a deep sleeper,
02:25:45 and that the dogs bark when there are people outside of the house, but not when they're inside. Okay. And when asked directly about his involvement, he denied taking part in her murder. At the end, though, there was a major tone change. Caleb suddenly became very defensive, saying, I didn't touch my wife. To which Detective Morgan said, The evidence is a little bit contrary to that. Now, during cross-examination, a few key points were made,
02:26:10 and this included the fact that none of Ashley's blood was found on Caleb or his clothes. Caleb was never tested for gunshot residue because they didn't want to rush to judgment. None of the 80-plus tools were conclusively matched to the damage to that side garage door, and they still did not have the gun. Defense attorney Mulligan also pointed to many of the leads that they say weren't followed up on. For example, that tip about the hit on Caleb, or that salesman who supposedly showed up on the Saturday before. I literally cannot roll my eyes harder.
02:26:44 And finally, you guys, the last person to take the stand was criminal intelligence analyst Samantha Reeb. Her testimony went heavily into the Instagram activity and accounts of Caleb, Ashley, and Aaliyah, the messages between Caleb and Aaliyah, and Caleb's timeline versus the investigative timeline. And on the Instagram front, there were a few notable findings. For starters, Reeb linked a fake Instagram for a Derek Hammett to Caleb. Looks like Caleb really did have a Finsta. And if you recall from earlier, Alia believed that he had created this account to reach out to her. Well, he did. The photos the account posted were saved on Caleb's phone at the same times they went up.
02:27:25 And the Instagram was created on an iPhone that was consistent with his device. And despite messaging Alia on two separate days in November of 2025, he never received a reply. When was the Derek Hammett account registered? November 5th of 2025. And when was the last login to the Derek Hammett again? November 16th of 2025. What can you tell us about location data for Hammert's Instagram account? We were able to determine that that IP address came back to the residents where Todd and Jill live.
02:28:01 Did you attempt to identify Derek Hammett? Yes. I tried to do a reverse image search to see if I could identify who this person was. Were you successful? Not in identifying this person as Derek Hammett. What did you discover about the images used in his profile? These images were actually taken from another Instagram profile that is open publicly. It's also an Instagram that Caleb C. Flynn's profile followed.
02:28:29 It's for a Jared Long. And we also learned that a device consistent with Caleb's iPhone was used to log into his wife's and Alia's Instagram accounts. He logged into Ashley's as recently as February 13th, which is interesting because it turns out that he had blocked her from his personal account. Now, on the timeline front, Reeb's testimony was really helpful because she put everything in one place. She went back as far as 2021 and highlighted all the major moments in this case. She compared Caleb's timeline from the day before the murder with what the investigation found. And shocker, there were discrepancies.
02:29:07 Not only regarding the health data movement that showed him up. and moving when he said he was asleep, but also his general movements on the 15th. If you remember, he told Alia that he went out to lunch on the 15th to practice what he was going to say to Ashley's parents. And then he said he went to their house to talk to them, but they weren't there. Well, his phone data showed that he never went near their house. And also, Todd, her father, was literally in Canada. Obviously, this man is just a big, fat fucking liar, and I think that was made very obvious throughout the course of this trial. I think everyone was slightly shocked to see it end on Monday, which was day seven,
02:29:45 and even more shocked that the defense called zero witnesses. But that's how the cookie crumbled. And by Tuesday, the 29th, closing arguments began. And verdict wise, come on, I think we all saw it coming, right? I felt pretty confident as I was watching this trial unfold. And in less than three hours, Caleb Flynn was found guilty on all charges. and you could see him start to tear up as all nine counts came back guilty. And I just have to wonder what he was actually thinking.
02:30:16 I mean, all throughout the trial, we saw him crying these fake-ass tears. And I mean, I just can't imagine someone as cold-hearted as him is capable of feeling real emotion other than emotion for himself. I mean, I think if he had any real tears, they were for him. And unfortunately, but not unsurprisingly, this won't be the end of us hearing about him. Following the verdict, his attorneys said they fully anticipate filing a notice of appeal, which is due within 30 days of the final judgment. I am very hopeful and very confident that this verdict and justice for Ashley will stand. Caleb's sentencing is scheduled for Monday, October 5th. So when you are seeing this episode, that just happened.
02:30:59 That is in the future for me as I'm recording a few days earlier. So here's a quick update on how that went. from me in the future. Hi, everyone. Jumping in from the Sesh set here, my other podcast, which you should check out. But yeah, sentencing literally just wrapped. I'm recording this on October 5th. And to say that this hearing was emotional would be an understatement. It was very intense. And I want to start out by sharing a huge bombshell that was dropped by the prosecution. Paul Watkins revealed that Caleb coached his two daughters on what to say before their initial forensic interview. Are we shocked? No. I wouldn't put anything past Caleb. Now, the specifics weren't provided,
02:31:45 but he shared that Caleb told the girls what to say and specifically not to mention that he told them what to say. Caleb reportedly said that their words would mean the difference between life and death for him. So friends, if we didn't already think this man is the scum of the earth, now we definitely do. Caleb did read a statement himself, and it was a total just bullshit sob story. There was no confession, not that I'm surprised. I mean, he is never going to confess, in my opinion. But he apologized for what he said about Ashley, but yeah, denied killing her. He also spoke to his daughters and talked about how he loves them and cried about how he's going to miss out on them growing up,
02:32:25 as if it's not literally his fault. There were several victim impact statements read as well, one from, Ashley's sister, one from her brother-in-law and also from her parents. Her mom, Jill, and her brother-in-law, Matthew, each read a statement on behalf of Ashley's daughters and their words were just beyond devastating. I will have those linked below if you would like to take a look at them for yourself. How their own father could do this to their mother and to them is just beyond words and you can just hear through everything that they had to say that this was something that they can't even fully comprehend either. And ultimately, the judge totally, or Caleb a new one before she handed down his sentence. She said that his actions were abhorrent and that he used his faith to manipulate others. So in the end, Caleb Flynn received a much-deserved sentence of life in prison without parole. He also faces an additional seven years to be served consecutively for the gun specifications and an additional nine years to be served consecutively for the tampering with evidence charges.
02:33:24 And that, you guys, is the trial of one of the biggest losers to walk planet Earth, Caleb Flynn. And I really don't have much to say other than I'm just so happy, so grateful that Ashley received justice and that her family, you know, can walk away with that. I mean, it doesn't bring her back. It certainly doesn't heal them completely, but I know it will make such a huge difference for them to see her killer behind bars. And this is such a different type of episode for me to do because during a trial, there's so much emphasis put on the killer and, the victim is, you know, really not talked about that much, which is something that frustrates me. It's how the system works. I understand that. But I wanted to end this episode by sharing a statement on behalf of the family following this verdict. Today's verdict brings justice and accountability for Ashley's death. And our family is deeply grateful to everyone who helped bring us
02:34:24 to this moment. However, no verdict can bring Ashley back, give the girls back their mother, or erase the pain our family has endured. The cruelty of what happened to Ashley and the things we've been forced to hear and relive have at times felt unbearable. But through all of it, we've held tightly to this truth. Ashley's life will not be defined by the way it ended. She'll be remembered for the way she lived. Ashley loved Jesus with her whole heart.
02:34:49 Her faith wasn't simply something she simply spoke about. It was how she lived. She loved people well, found joy beyond her circumstances, prayed boldly for her family and wanted her life to point people to Jesus. Most of all, she loved being a mom. She prayed over her girls, taught them to love God, and showed them what it looked like to live with faith, kindness, joy, and grace. We refused to let the evil that ended Ashley's life have the final word in her story.
02:35:19 Our faith does not erase our grief, but it carries us through it. We know Ashley is home with the Lord she loved, and served. So as this chapter closes, our prayer is that Ashley's story does not end with a verdict. We pray it continues through her girls, our family, and every person touched by the way she lived. If you want to honor Ashley, love people well, pray boldly for your family, choose joy, and point people to Jesus. We are deeply grateful to the jury for their careful attention and service and to the Miami County Prosecutor's Office, the Tip City Police Department, the FBI, BCI, and every and advocate who worked tirelessly to seek the truth.
02:36:00 Thank you to everyone who has prayed for, loved, and supported our family. We ask for privacy now as we continue healing and loving Ashley's girls the way she would want them loved. Please remember Ashley, not for how she died, but for how beautifully she lived. The family of Ashley Smith, Flint. That is it for me today, you guys. I know that was a super long episode and something totally different for my show. Let me know if you are interested in seeing more trial coverage in the
02:36:26 the future because I'd definitely be interested in doing that depending on the trial. I will be back next week to discuss another case. And until then, stay safe out there.
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