2 Bears, 1 Cave with Tom Segura & Bert Kreischer - 2 Bears, 2 Great Minds w/ Andrew Huberman & Cory Henry | 2 Bears, 1 Cave Ep. 203

Episode Date: September 18, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of 2 Bears, 1 Cave! This week, Tom Segura and Bert Kreischer are joined by neuroscientist Andrew Huberman and jazz musician Cory Henry. The four of them discuss how music affects the brain, Bert’s recent decision to get healthy, how dopamine works, swimming with great white sharks, Tom’s basketball injury, whether or not Stevie Wonder can sing, anxiety, sleep apnea, sobriety, David Goggins, and much more!https://tomsegura.com/tourhttps://www.bertbertbert.com/tourhttps://store.ymhstudios.com/

This week on Two Bears One Cave. You told America I was the most racist comic in America. He did that! It's not like a terrible idea. You're a fool of two. No, no, no, no, I don't know why it's a Cosby show. Cosby did terrible things. He got in a lot of trouble. They canceled the show, right?

And 100%. Welcome to the program. Hey guys, anyway, so did two bears one cave. Hey, Andrew is libertrainage a real thing. Michael, no, it's really libertrainage. Sure. Do people get their feet removed? Or you know nothing of what how this podcast works. Yeah.

This is my co-host Tom Segura. Yeah. Hello. It's called two bears one cave. Yeah. And uh, this is renowned professor and podcaster, Dr. Andrew Huberman, Stanford, ophthalmology, neurobiology. Neurobiology, and you have a, but you also have an appointment in neurobiology,

ophthalmology and biocurricine psychiatry. Yeah, I mean, most people do. Ophthalmology. I'm not trying to try these on. You just tell me what it's going on with me. Is that what ophthalmology is? Yeah, ophthalmatory is more about the, you know, fitting lenses and things of that sort. It's just he's.

The model is medical issues of the eye and the portion of the brain that's related to vision. Wow. See, listen, I told you, I told you, what did I tell you? We're surrounded by greatness. The greatness. And you got to talk a little bit more. And so this is next to me is Coriander. You've heard me talk about them. Yes. I was moved to tears. I think I cried on the podcast talking about it. You did. You have not heard that he has no idea. That wasn't come out yet. Has oh well by the time like now.

Yeah. I saw him at the blue note, which is a jazz festival in Napa that my wife and I go, you got invited to to. Yeah. Yeah. I went because of Nas. Yeah. Or as your wife says, Nas.

Nas. Yes. And and core two people people three people really Corey and Dami and Teddy don't be back and they they moved me beyond Beyond feeling and and I wonder what I'd love to hear your instinct So Corey is a renowned jazz musician. I will say it because he won't and this was everyone when I came back I was like do Corey Henry like oh you like good shit. I go, what an ego. He's

Stevie Wanderer's favorite artist. I went, oh, so I got the fucking, I got the vibe. Andrew, jazz. So I love jazz. What does that do to the brain? And is there a different thing that happens in the brain when jazz music is being played? Great question, because I've spent the last three weeks working on an episode from my podcast about music and the brain. So, a couple of things just related to music more generally, which is that the emerging theory is that music, including singing and dance, probably emerged

in the human brain before spoken language. Which in many ways makes sense, right? Think about this. Using music without lyrics, you couldn't describe a can of soda, a car, or an apple, or a person in a way that I could understand it and everyone could understand it. But with music, you can describe and create an emotion in somebody else. That means that it's actually a more sophisticated language in many ways than spoken language.

So we think of spoken language as so sophisticated. I can say, okay, you know, Tom sitting over here, he's my cousin, by the way, he is my cousin. This is on Wikipedia. He's wearing Adidas shoes like me, which may have a genetic link, may have be a, you know, nature and nurture thing. We don't quite know. We don't question it.

He looks like this. He speaks like this. I can explain a lot of things about him and they're all true, but I can't create an emotion in you about Tom with spoken language unless I tell you about something he did. Maybe that'll evoke some sort of sense of delight or disgust or whatever it is depending on the story. But with music, you can play one tone or one series of tones.

I'm not a musician. I'll reveal that by how I describe music. But a motif, you know, people can hear like just one note played on a clean background, on a trumpet or a saxophone, and it feels something. So in many ways, what we now understand based on brain imaging, based on a lot of genetics and other tools is that there are dedicated circuits in the brain and body that music taps into and can create the sense of emotion. And one of the more interesting ones I think is that, you know, we have a breathing apparatus

as the muscle called the diaphragm, moves our lungs, etc. But a lot of music will actually tap into the neural connections of the diaphragm and lungs, and our body will flutter at the same frequency as a note that's being played. So this is crazy, that means that your body is being used as a sort of instrument from the inside while you're listening to instruments and sometimes vocals from the outside. And so your body is literally resonating

with the similar frequencies as the music that you're listening to. You are one of the instruments when you're listening. So when you go to see, and when you listen in a room, it's very different than when you listen with headphones, which is very different than when you listen with very high quality headphones. But there is nothing, nothing like live music.

Because when you are present to the live music, your body is part of the instrumental of that music. Okay, so there's an internal, like it's geysering up out of you while it's coming in through your senses. That's so remarkable. That's insane. So I showed to all of you, I think you have to sing now. Yeah.

So you don't make me sing. Well, it's crazy. You say that because it is, it is actually the truly the only universal language. You know, like people speak in, and in many ways you go, well, English is like the world's kind of language. Now you have to, you know, if you want to be a part of everything, speak English. But you can perform music here, Japan, Spain, and elicit emotion from people who go, you could be singing in English, and the music and singing evokes the same thing from everybody who doesn't even understand.

I've listened to songs and Portuguese, and I don't know what the hell is going on, but I'm getting emotional and really in, I'm like, so I love this song. I even know what the song's about. But you can also communicate intent with music, cross-cultures, so, you know, like, um, war music drums. Don't, don't, right? You know, that whole thing. Or live songs.

Or love songs, or, you know, the lightness. Like, so you can communicate emotion through these collections of sounds that are universal. And so we know that there are circuits in the brain that are separate for this, that are dedicated to this because people who are aphasia who can't speak, oftentimes can still sing, where they can create or follow a melody. That's insane. Yeah, a lot of people talk nowadays and are concerned about understandably things like dementia, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's dementia, just age-related dementia, and people who listen to anywhere from 30 minutes to 60 minutes of music per day on average,

their cognition gets better. And that's because it's tapping into a whole set of neurochemical programs and things that, you know, brings the person alive. And from the inside. I mean, this is what I find so interesting about music is yes, it's coming in through the years, just like when you look at a beautiful painting, you know, pick your favorite artist, you see that and you go, whoa, and you feel something inside. But you're not actually recreating the painting in your body.

You're recreating into your brain to some extent. But with music, the vibrations of the music are having a deep resonant, resonant, excuse me, impact on your body. And there's a lot of facial expressions that go with it. I actually put out the call for questions on social media the other day. I'm doing an episode on music in the brain, you know, what do you want to know? And my favorite question of all was, what explains base face? Like everyone makes the same face, right?

Like, you know, like, you know, like, you know, I don't know of dogs and other animals are doing it too, but there's something fundamental there in terms of how we're all wired. And of course, lyrics can do a lot. I love poetry. I love lyrics, you know, there's certain fundamental there in terms of how we're all wired. And of course, lyrics can do a lot. I love poetry, I love lyrics. There's certain musicians like Joe Strummer, Bob Dylan, for me, the lyrics don't even make sense. But they feel like they're saying something that's fundamental, even though if you were just to read the lyrics, it wouldn't mean any.

You know what happens to me? I talked about this and I felt so validated that other people were like, oh me too, and musicians also were jump. I revealed that I go, my whole life when I listen to music, I have to make a real effort to hear the lyrics, like to actually, I hear somebody singing as an instrument. So it's like, like when you're singing, I go like, and then someone's like, you know what this song is about? And I'm like, no, I have to really pay attention because the the voice singing to me to my ear registers as like almost like the strings or the drum. And then English isn't his first language. That's very true. We're all tuned to these

fundamental sounds that it starts to cross over with language. Like if you hear somebody shrill in pain, we all know that feeling. Yeah. Or like an animal or a child, especially like, you know, in desperate pain, you know, it just pulls on you. It's not a choice. I mean, if you don't feel that, you might be a sociopath. Yeah. Okay.

You are a sociopath. If you don't feel somebody else's like a child's pain when they're in pain, like there's something wrong with, you're an animal, right? But then there's also these like deep gutter-all sounds, right? So the more primitive the sounds, the more we relate to them in music, is tapping into all of that.

And you know, I know zero minus one about how to play music, but I love listening to music. I'm the opposite, even though we're related. I'm the opposite even though we're related I'm the opposite nature nurture. I like lyrics. Yeah, I love the poetry of it. I memorize lyrics. I hear them in my head I actually prepare for podcasts by singing songs in my head. It gets me into a rhythm, but music in terms of chords, harmonics, melodies, all that I mean mean, I feel like I don't understand at all. But it. Like, I have to make a very, very strong effort

to go, oh, this is what this person is saying. Otherwise, it just feels melodic to me. You know what I mean? Yeah, no, tell me. How early did you start playing music? I started playing when I was two years old. Two years old. Yeah, my mom told me how to play.

She was the lead choir director and musician at the church we grew up in Brooklyn. Brooklyn Brooklyn. Like, back in Brooklyn was Brooklyn. I don't remember when this was Brooklyn. No, Brooklyn was Brooklyn. Yeah, I was in the bus. That's the adults issues.

No, no, no, no, they just thought I'd do it at. There were a lot of studies now that show very conclusively that kids that start playing an instrument prior to six, singing and playing instruments, especially with other people, their brain connectivity is much more extensive. They're smarter. They really are.

They really are, and their brain maintains that increased connectivity well into adulthood. And it's something that can be reactivated. For people like me who completely failed at learning how to play any instrument whatsoever, it's not completely hopeless, but it would be a lot of work. But the fact that it's an hour day, then an hour day. The fact that you're, that's how I talk about exercise and all the other stuff. So I do to internalize that.

That's why I was going to spell good joint for an hour. I mean, Is everyone good if I like to join? No, totally. Can you not be rounded? Yeah, I don't partake, but it's legal in California. I know that. I don't know. Feel free. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. An interesting question to both of you guys. It's a two-parter. Well, it's a two-parter. I'm going to ask the second part in a second. When you play jazz, it is more of your brain is telling your fingers what to do

in a spontaneous, spontaneously. Like as I watch you play, you are dictating the rhythm of the evening, it's all improvised. Not all of it, but it's primarily like watching you play. It's just so inspired and improvised. Number one, how do you connect your fingers to your brain that way? And do you see the piano other than just white little white and black things? And do you see that or do you feel it? And then secondly, I want to know, how do I tap into it? How do

people tap into that? Because as I watch him, I'm so inspired by just you fucking around. Like you playing with amazing grace last night and taking us on a ride. You take us on a ride. And that improvisation is what I'm obsessed with, but I'm curious to know how your brain works when you play music. Yeah, when I'm playing at this point, I feel like it's, I think it's all a feeling, you know, like I've spent a lot of time at my instrument to be able to play what I want to play as a musician and then it's a matter of like, taking what I've learned or what I've like,

practice and making it a voice. I look at the piano as a voice. Like I don't see them as like keys or whatever. I'm trying to like talk, you know? Like I'm trying to have a little conversation and take you and Rai and, um, and I noticed recently over the last few years that I'm really tapped in with my eyes as close. It's all that. It's all about like when I'm not looking at the keys or from

look like if my attention here in my head is elsewhere, where my hands are just like, Oh, it's time to fly. And I feel like I'm flying at that point where it comes down to like, you know, in improv sections of my show, especially like amazing grace, because I play it all the time. And I feel like I'm flying at that point where it comes down to like, you know, the improv sections of my show Especially like an amazing grace because I play it all the time and I like to change it up and do different things I feel like I'm trying to remain at a some kind of free state where I'm not thinking about the keys or the notes of the chord Free state is the art. Yeah, how okay? How what's the easiest way for people to access that free state? Goodness, okay.

Well, first of all, the improvisation piece is really important because, you know, your brain is, it does a lot of things. Your brain controls your heart rate, make sure your muscles can move, it does all that stuff, but beyond all of that stuff, maintaining body temperature, et cetera, your brain is mostly a prediction machine.

Like early in life, you learn that objects fall down, not up. That's got a fundamental rule. You learn how your parents are, they caretake, by voice, by smell, by sight, et cetera. And as we go through life, for instance, this is the first time I've been here at your studio today. There are a bunch of novel objects, new people that I'm meeting, et cetera, but nothing is so outside of my expectation, especially given that it's you, Bert, and you, Tom. So outside my expectation, we won't talk about that thing that happened on the stairwell. That I'm not in a mode of like, whoa, like this is unexpected. But the brain has a particular neurochemical

called dopamine. We've all heard of it as dopamine hits. Everyone thinks dopamine is associated with pleasure. But dopamine is really about motivation and anticipation. And so we're listening to say amazing grace, a song that I recognize. And I'm expecting it to be played a certain way, sung a certain way.

And then all of a sudden, you hold one note much longer. I'm just making this up. I haven't heard you play yet, although I'm excited to go see you play. I am gonna go see you play, by the way. Okay. And you hold that note longer, then all of a sudden, that dopamine,

we have many dopamine circuits in the brain, but that circuit flips on and starts releasing this neurochemical, which heightens my attention like what is happening now? What's gonna happen next? The thing about dopamine is you adjust to it pretty quickly. This explains a lot of addictions as well. So then if you do that every third note,

well then, yeah, you might be familiar with that. As I put the joint to my mouth, he goes, this is played a lot better. We're gonna talk about cannabis if you want. That's interesting uses, both interesting health uses and addictive potential. I just pissed off all the positive. I want to know about it too much. But the dopamine, it's all about the levels now relative to where they were a few seconds

ago or a few minutes ago. So pretty soon, that novelty, like, oh, he's going to hold this note. Okay, okay, he's's gonna hold this note. Okay, okay, he's gonna hold this note, and then you stop it and you go back into the regular singing, you know, amazing grades, for instance. I'm just, again, making this up. So the music system, the system in the brain that responds to music and to speech, it has certain expectations.

Your brain is already trying to guess what I'm gonna say next. And so if I suddenly start speaking, you know, in Shakespearean prose, you'd be like, whoa, whoa, what is that? Now, the important thing about music is that in order to make it sound right, it has to obey certain rules. Okay. It can't just be a cacophony of crazy sounds.

You start playing the interesting thing. You start to obey certain rules. You're right because if it doesn't, all of a sudden you're like, that's wrong. But you're brain, but you automatically know how the fuck do our brains all know? You're right. You're right. You're doesn't all of a sudden you're like that's wrong. Yeah, but you're brain, but you automatically now the fuck do our brains all know the brain just like comedy right just like comedy. Oh, it's just like comedy like in comedy. Like I'll I don't see comedy and then I put it to my wife in the face. I was like, oh, fuck. Right. Don't do that. The, you know, like for instance,

I saw Tom, I saw Tom do comedy at the belly up in Aspen recently, he killed, it was amazing. And I can start talking about different bits, he did, that's what they're called, right? Okay. And, but, you know, I've seen certain versions of comedy by Tom and others where they're telling a story and you're like, okay, here's a story. And then you're like, oh no, this isn't going to go that way, is it? And then I have to imagine that there are two possibilities. I'm thinking, no, this isn't going to go that way. Is it? And then I have to imagine that there are two possibilities. I'm thinking, okay, either he's going to confirm my suspicion that this is going to end really badly, or there's going to be some flip at the end where all of a sudden it's

something completely different. And that's the pop, right? Same thing with music. Same in the same- Don't put me in thing as happening after watching, right? You know, this is whether or not you're talking about Bitcoin, the Euro, the American dollar, the Canadian dollar, whatever, the peso. There's only one universal currency of value in the brain. We place value on what we're experiencing, value on monetary units.

It's all dopamine. Now, there are other neurochemicals in the brain that are important, but it's a neurochemical system for saying, what was happening before is cool, but what's happening now is way cooler because it's different. Oh, wait, no, it's too different. It doesn't really obey the rules. And you're not thinking about this consciously. This is what's amazing. So much of this is happening subconsciously.

And music played correctly, sung correctly, taps into your subconscious about that just feels right because it is right. It's a bang certain mathematical rules, certain physical laws of the universe that are correct. And I can promise you this because if I were to sing Happy Birthday and then inject the Sesame Street theme song and then try and sing amazing grace in there,

you guys would just say, well, in addition to having a terrible voice, Andrew, that just sucked. It wasn't interesting. It's not interesting the same way that a painter, like some kid can go see a Jami Shalbosky out painting or something and go, oh, that's a, or like a Jackson Pollock can go, that's just a bunch of paint thrown on the thing. I'm just gonna throw paint on a canvas and that kid isn't up in the momma, right? The person who can tap into

something fundamental about the way the brain works. In other words, you're a neuroscientist, you're a neuroscientist, you're a neuroscientist. You don't even realize what you're doing is you're tapping into something fundamental about how the brain works and delivers reward. The thing that you're, I'm realizing about the dopamine thing and the unexpected is that that's for sure why people are like odd in companies shows by crowd work. Because what happens is crowd work is like, what's up, man? And somebody says, and you see that it mesmerizes people, and they get into this place of glee

because it's happening in the moment. It's all unexpected things. And you can see that it shifts the energy of a room. When somebody does, in the moment, crowd work, it's all unexpected. It's all like these, and it changes the dynamic of what's happening. It's like if I were, you know, Picasso were here

and we're literally throwing different colors of paint at him and he's putting it up into something beautiful. That's why, you know, everyone's while you'll see a poster or video, and I don't want to disparage anyone's art form, but you'll see these people are like, they're painting something, it doesn't look like anything, it doesn't look like,

and then they flip it over and it's a face. Yeah. That's not the lowest form of art, but it's getting Down there because what is it? It's basically just playing with one single rule about visual perception Which things drawn upside down you can't comprehend them you flip them upside down and you go oh it pops But that's sort of like gimmick right. It's a gimmick. That's not new art That's not new art. That's just old art done upside down Okay, so that rule is kind of like, okay, cool.

Sort of like if I do a pun and I won't even try and do that or I do a knock knock joke, it's like, okay, I think it's kind of funny, little bit funny, but not really because the real beauty of comedy is when it took my brain because I'm in the audience when it comes to comedy, always I'm not funny, and you're converting the like a rule about how I thought the world was gonna go. Like you're talking about a serial killer. Like, oh my God, like that's really dark. I don't like serial killers.

I won't even watch the Dalmer thing. I'll pay money not to watch the Dalmer thing. And then at the end, because you're you or you, you, you'll probably say something like, I don't know, that I don't like something super effective. And then I also never want to just last, because it's like, the brain goes, oh my God, I can't even comprehend. I would never would have gone in.

Oh, session release. It's a release. It's a release of tension. You're also, so just like with music, we're getting it up through the body. You've got people, you don't quote unquote, on the edge of their seats. You've got people in tension and then relaxed.

You know, it's a form of spoken intercourse? Yeah, and there's this thing about comedy shows where there really is, there's an unspoken agreement when you enter the room, audience and performer goes, like there's no point in me going up on stage to be like, I'm gonna say things all the right way that are the correct thing to say in all scenarios because that's like, there's no real, that's like,

yeah, that's polite society. That's where you get outside of the room. Right. In the room, the thrill, the joy, I think, for the performer and the audience, is that you're gonna say the thing that they're like, we should, this should not be spoken. I think it's scared sometimes.

When I see you guys do comedy, I get scared. I'm like, oh no. Like, you're gonna say something and like, I don't know what's gonna happen, but it seems, it feels scary, right? You know, I go to, oh no, like you're gonna say something and like I Don't know what's gonna happen, but it seems it feels scary, right? You know I go to the amusement park. I like roller coasters. You look at roller coasters You know that you know unless you're shorter than the thing like you're not gonna fly out and die most likely right? So you're like it's scary, but you there's trust I hate most likely Does happen

Usually when they you know someone didn't pull the thing down Yeah, it does happen every once in a while. Usually when someone didn't pull the thing down or take carnivals, it's great. Exactly. Picture a amusement park, care for. Fuck those. When I go see comedy, I'm afraid, I'm also afraid of the person up there, bombing.

Whenever I go to New York, my sister and I go to New York every year for our birthdays in September and I love going to the comedy seller. And you go on every year and I've seen some amazing sets, just like, wow, that was amazing. And then I've seen some amazing sets just like whoa That was I mean, and then I've seen some just dreadful ones and you you was the audience What a crawl under the table. Yeah, yeah, and that that reflects it, you know, we're

Our nervous systems are always interacting and some people delight us just their face right like when Tom does his impression of his kids Especially I don't want to play favor too, especially especially of his youngest son. Oh my God. I've thought about that just driving along these last couple of days and just I start cracking up inside. It's delightful because he sees something in his kids. They see something in him. And so your your tapping it's like an intimacy. It's a parent child relationship that's, you know, hilarious. And yet, I've never actually, I've never met his kids. I don't

know their names like, you their names or any of that. I mean, we're cousins, but we're warming up to the family reunion. Because I'm obsessed with the concept that is there are unspoken rules. Like if you break the rules, because I always think of comedy as like, I'm trying to break the rules,

but I'm not really, because if you break the rules, you say the thing that shuts it down. Michael Richards broke the rules. Yeah. That was like the perfect example of rule breaking. Like there could have been rules in place that he did something crazy, but he didn't break the rule.

But he stepped out of performance and went into like personal rage. I thought he was trying to, you know, try and who's Michael Richards? Don't worry about it. Okay. Okay, it was a bad fucking example. Fucking cramer.

On Seinfeld? Yeah, you have a boy. Listen, when I was in Undergrad. Wait, let's talk to the fact. You had your nose in books so deep. You didn't know what happened with that. I bring a social media til a few years ago. I'm pretty new to you.

What do you do with having a gamer? Oh fuck. Yeah, yeah. Wait, look what a game. What does an anime you never met know? I don't know. There fuck yeah, yeah, what doesn't And he never meant no I know there's a water you still watch a Cosby show no That was a while couple of years. I know Cosby Cosby

Cosby did terrible things. He got in a lot of trouble. They canceled the show right right All right I'm the joke I watched the one year I like that show like that show I own the DVDs Man this is such a good Ozark I'm just wired I watched mad men Okay, those are when Laura Lennie gets fucked from behind on that like first episode. Yeah, it was so real Real there's like that's it you took from us. That's what I was like let's play high end actresses to do porn. Yeah, because They tap into how they really fuck like a porn star your fucking poor star

Yeah, you should okay You married no, oh come on Yeah, still so many possibilities Yeah, we have a lot. Oh, I'll give you my I'll give you my Christmas list So you get a bunch of former girls to come see you play amazing grace and have at it afterwards Wait, hold on You're full of Lure Lini when she has sex in Ozark. She does it like a real woman Right now like a real woman not like porn stars like

Pussy Do it raw and you're like no one talks like that. No, like doing like a real woman like out my shoulder or whatever Like and Lorda Lini when she has sex from behind it was she did it like like she was I of your sight. So you watched all of Ozark, and that's what you looked at. Exactly. That was the sadst what you looked at from the series. Yeah, season one, it's in, it's so good. Yeah, the series is amazing.

I made it to my shot. And this Ozark shot was kind of blue, blue black tone. Yeah. That it's, it's eerie, right? It's really eerie, all the time. Like, you notice even when it's just normal dialogue. Like someone's walking up to a hotel room and talk to someone you're like,

something bad's gonna happen. Oh, no. It's constantly. The cat's incredible. It's amazing. It's crazy that Bateman directs like the majority of the episodes. You know that?

Yeah, so he's in it and he directed like at least half of those episodes. He's got a crazy diet. Jason Bateman? Yeah, so that don't go on him. He's got a crazy diet. Jason Bateman? Yeah, so that guy on him, he's got podcast called SmartList. Yeah. And they did a doc and he just, he like,

well this is a good segue. What? Oh Corey, I used to be fat. Yeah, actually you met me when I was fat. He went on the Jason Bateman. I believe Corey, this would have been about a month ago. About a month ago. Yeah.

He was fat. Oh, thank you. That's how most people would post that. Okay. So just to bring everybody up to speed about a month ago. He was fat. Thank you. That's how most people are post-act. Okay. So just to bring everybody up to speed about a month ago, Bert had a come to Jesus moment where he was like, I need to get healthier. It was just festival.

Yeah, wow. Yeah, because I was drinking. I mean, we just wake up, start drinking all day. And then... And you're retouring up by... I just got off tour. The festival. I was partying a lot. And then got off tour festival. I was party a lot

drinking a lot eating like a lunatic You know it's bad when you see you Andrew does not like alcohol. He's not a fan of alcohol It's not that I am not a fan. I think I see a lot of health issues Andrew knows all the science I would see his stuff and I go like the fuck does he know? And then I'd swipe through it. And then all of a sudden I was like, I was bloated as fuck, my face looked, my face was huge. Everything, my ankles were swelling like, like everybody was noticing.

And everyone was noticing and I was like, alright, that's it. So I went, I did a cleanse first, like a prolon. It's a mimicked fast, a cell rejuvenation thing. I did that, went to the cardiologist and I was like, I just don't know to do with my diet. My cardiologist was like fucking keto. And I was like, really? You know, the cardiologist said that. My cardiologist is just, there's so many benefits

to being in ketosis. He goes, they'reving that right now it is Stopping the growth of brain tumor cells that it doesn't feed cancer cells the sugars What cancer grows off of and he does most importantly? It's great for inflammation which you have a lot of and it's great for your liver He goes it gives your liver a break to process fat instead of sugar and he goes go Keto and they gave me another to the sugar and he goes go keto and they gave me another guy's number and he was like get exogenous ketones

Staying ketosis for as long as you can like also without that with when you're in ketosis You're not drinking you can't drink you can if you were gonna break it But I don't want to break it so I've been in ketosis for a month and I've been not drinking for a month like what's In suggest festival. Where are we going? How do you feel? And we should be scientists about this. You did two things. So it's hard to know which one is leading

to the positive effects, right? You stop drinking alcohol. That's one variable. And then the other is that you are now in ketogenic diet, which is another variable. So you could be feeling better because of both of those things, you probably are. But I'm just curious how you feel in terms of,

let's just break it down into, how's your sleep? Pretty amazing. Great. And compared to what it was. Oh, well, yeah, my sleep was always like, I never woke up like, like, okay, I would wake up like. Do you know what you told me like six months ago? I was like, how do you feel since X, Y, and Z?

And you go, I never notice anything because I'm drinking and part, you're like, I don't know whether today or, I couldn't tell you what, I don't feel like versus, not hungover. Like I just knew a homeostasis of like waking up and what's interesting is I would wake up in a panic with like a fire under my ass going all right we gotta workout we gotta do this we gotta do that we got it now I wake up and I'm like

I'm like oh it's cool I was I was raising anxiety a lot of people who drink feel less anxiety while they drink but then they feel much more anxiety outside of drinking. Searing. You know, searing. Yeah. Were they sure, do you ever think about death? Every fucking morning when I drank, I'm a first fucking fawn. First thought, one day it goes dark. One day it goes dark. Existential dread. Oh my God.

Can I ask you, I wanna go through the different things of sleep and the other aspects of health and well-being, but how old were you when you took your first drink? Well, I'll find it. 14. And then did you start drinking relatively heavily? No.

At that time, no. It's 22. In college. Right. I would say in college, like a regular college kid. Yeah, I went to UC Santa Barbara, which discovers alcoholics. Right, it's always been a big party.

Alcohol is a weird fucking word. Now that it's overused. It's like saying. They said, now say alcohol use disorder is another one. Listen, it's different things for different people. Some people it's one or two at the end of the day, and they quote unquote, need that drink. Other people, they have just one drink or even half a drink, but it dramatically changes their personality. Other people, they drink to black out drunk. Other people, they're like the Don Draper character and Mad Men. They can drink during drink in the next morning. There they are looking, you know, all right angles and working. You're like, whoa, you know, like how they do that.

Lot of genetic variation in terms of how quickly people metabolize alcohol, how thoroughly they metabolize alcohol. Not going to do the whole podcast episode on alcohol because I did that for my podcast, but it is poison. It will just be, it makes you feel the way it does because it is poison. If you see articles that say, one or two glasses of wine per day, risk of air at your all, you know, health benefits, here's the deal. Zero alcohol is better for you than any alcohol,

but the cut off, if you're not an alcoholic or somebody prone to alcohol, use disorder, et cetera, and you're a wage, probably two drinks per week should be up or ceiling beyond which there are a lot of data now out of the UK brain bank that showing that, you know, the more you drink, for every additional drink you have per week, a little bit more of brain atrophy, drinking in the brain and loss of nerves. My brain, my brain is firing hot. I know, I know, I know, it's my flow of speaking is going on stage,

my brain is working so much better. This is so good. This is so good. You're such a vigorous guy, like you have so much vigour. You're, you know, the word that comes to mind when I think of you, Christher is not alcohol, it is robust. There to mind when I think of you, Christchurch is not alcohol.

It is robust. There's like this robustness to you, right? And I always knew, because we've been in touch about this for a little while now, and Tom and I talk, and we talk behind your back and all that. Everyone talks behind your back. Yeah. We got loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, loving, lovingly, which is that the prediction was always that if you cut out alcohol and you're exercising and you're eating right, that you are going to feel so much better,

not that you're going to feel worse and you're going to miss it. So I'm here, I have a hidden agenda, which is my hope is that I saw you post on social media, you're not going to have another drink until you hit 230, 230 pounds. I think you should cut it out for good and watch your creative work and everything else, skyrocket. And I'm sure there are a bunch of fans that are like, oh my God, does that mean I can't drink

while listening to Christchurch? No, we're not talking about them. I'm talking about you. Okay, and I'm not, I'm not here as a, you know, addiction counselor, I'm not, I don't tell you what to do. Right, I'm not a physician, I don't prescribe anything, a professor, I profess a lot of things, but I profess that if you were to stay off alcohol completely,

not only are you going to live a lot longer, but that robustness is going to be exponentially greater. It'll also be fun to just do comedy and live life through that lens. There's so much more to discover, and no, I'm not telling you you have to quit smoking weed. No, I know I will. I, you know, I don't think I mean, I, I was,

because we's a whole other story. And some people can do it safely and be fine with it and be very functional. Other people can't. It's a very binary distinction there. There are a lot of young males who smoke very high potent CTHC and it craters their life. Can even lead to increased incidents of psychosis later. However, there are a lot of people who can smoke weed and they're perfectly fine.

Is this something that developed in more recent times? You always hear that the THC levels of today are so much more... People in the 70s who like, yeah, I smoked weed in high school. You give them a joint now and they're like, what the fuck? They think they're on meth, you know, like they're like, I've never smoked anything like this before. It's a whole other business. I mean, the ratio of THC to CBD is a big deal.

You know, there are parents who have kids with epilepsy that literally move to the state of Colorado just so they can get this. I don't know if I should say the name because it's hard for them to get and I want them to get it, but it's called Charlotte's Web is a pure CBD cannabis and it is effective treatment for their kids epilepsy. Yeah. People should look into this if their children have epilepsy, obviously talk to your neurologist, but the high THC cannabis is far and away a different drug, all right?

It's creating a whole different set of neurochemical reactions in the brain. And everybody's different, right? Some people can handle that high THC knowing, if you have a predisposition to bipolar disorder, which they now call it a depression, bipolar depression, then cannabis is not going to be a good idea for you.

No, but it seems like you handle it well. I just like a couple of things. The alcohol thing is it's gonna lower your blood pressure, reduce your incidence of glaucoma. There are some problems with, no cannabis. No alcohol. This thing is binding. The thing with alcohol, it basically has no therapeutic

benefits except for the psychological benefits that people think they're getting while they're on it, but then they get that heightened anxiety when they're not drinking. And I'm not, listen, I'm not against people having a few drinks, or occasionally even having more than a few drinks as long as they don't drive and they behave well. But the reality is, if you could cut out alcohol, you're adding years to your life, your cognition, your comedy, and let's be frank, I don't

know you well enough to say this, but I'll say it anyway. You don't seem like somebody who can have just two a week. I think zero is going to be. I'm a higher one. Let's let's be zero. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do. Let's do. By the way, your fans, right now, there's, why do you bring this hassle all on? No one who has two drinks a week. There's not. Listen, if you're that person, you're lying to yourself. No one goes, well, that one whiskey is great. I'll have another one Thursday. Fuck off. I saw Tom have one drink the other. Oh, he's dead inside. He always says this.

I don't think you finished your drink. I don't think so either. I don't think you finished your drink. Yeah, well, because you didn't want it. So I get it. Don't get it. That's my whole point. It's like, don't have the fucking calories. Like, what am you didn't want it. So why get it? Don't get the calories. That's my whole point. It's like, don't have the fucking calories. Like, when am I drinking red wine to stay in my teeth? No. Are you drinking a party? Or don't drink a party?

Like, I'm not gonna, I like, I drink. You drink wine though. Like, it is, like, you're, like, it's 105 and it's gatorated. Like, you're just like. I drink wine, like, Alex, Andrew, and I are great or pulling up on an elephant in five minutes. Like I'm like fuck your nose down it. Yeah.

You also you have kids, right? You want to be around for, do you have grandkids yet? I assume. Probably. Yeah, maybe. I didn't even realize that. I guess they can. How about kids too?

I like your family posts. Yeah. Like the really irreverent family posts that you do. No kids you have. I'm two. Two kidsent family posts that you do. How many kids do you have? I'm two. Two kids. You mean kids? No.

No, good. Poor stars. No, I have two kids. You know what? I've always said, there are times you want a drink. Like I said, I've said to my daughters, I'm not, I'm just, I'm not drinking. And they're like, oh, it's great.

And then they said, you know, you seem very present. You seem very grounded. And then my daughter, I like, in Leanne's birthday party, was like, you know, fetus, you drinking? And I was said, you know, you seem very present, you seem very grounded. And then my daughter, I like, and Leanne's birthday party was like, you know, fetus, you drinking? And I was like, no, she goes, you sure? And I was like, what's wrong? She goes, you really not drinking? And I was like, yeah, she's like, I'm so proud of you.

And I was like, oh, cool. And I was like, hold on, just, you know, if I wanted to drink, I'm gonna fucking drink. Like, no one's like, we're not, we're not having problems here. Like, she goes, no, I'm just proud of you said you were gonna drink. You didn't.

This is a big thing for you, the like, no one's telling me. No one tells me you fucking what to do. I know, and they goes, no, I'm just proud of you said you were gonna drink. You didn't. This is a big thing for you. The like, no one's telling me. No one tells me a fuck what to do. I know. And the other. I respect. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, want, I don't want. But there's a second part to this, which is that you recently said to me, when we were recording, you go, this is the first time that I am doing this,

just for me. I chose to do it. Yeah, it's supposed to, like, it's a bad, a challenge. Not only when I'm so good at this thing, call it so, rocktober, it's me, Tom, Joe Rogan and this guy, Arish Fier. And we would in this guy Irish fear and we we would this guy I've never met Shafir. Yeah, I know Joe obviously, but like is Shafir a drinker?

Yeah, but didn't you guys literally drink him under the table on the Rogan podcast? No, that was a shingilis That's a Joe's over I can't well, I don't know shingilis, but if you hear a name shingilis That's Joe's over. I can't work. Well, I don't know Shane Gillis, but if you hear a name, Shane Gillis, you'd see him in the R.E. Sheffier. Shane could take a bet. Shane could take him down.

I'd be here too. He's going to win that. Shane could take that. R.E. He's a real, he likes hallucigenics. He likes it. But he's drinking a lot. We talked on the phone the other day.

He's drinking a lot right now. But I think I have a weird thing about being told what to do. So I'm like, you know, so I, but if we always do it as a bet every year we do, we don't drink in October. No drugs are alcohol. We do a workout challenge. Is that hard for you to not drink? No, it's not.

So that's the interesting thing. A lot of people would, with your level, your prior level of alcohol consumption would quit drinking alcohol and would be very stressed, you know, even like the interim trends would. Yeah. So we have, you know, even like the interim time. I would. Yeah. So, I know a guy going through rehab right now and they just, he's been sober now, I think

two weeks less than me. It was a good friend of mine and they just took him out of the hospital part. Oh, yeah. They leave you in a hospital for a while, for some reason. So we're worried about strokes. And I was like, Oh, for severe alcohol, actually, they need to be medically supervised

when they transition out of drinking alcohol. That actually, but that statement, I have to put an asterisk nets to it, because a lot of people avoid quitting alcohol, because they're like, oh, you have to be medically supervised in order to do it. Look, there are millions of people who manage to get themselves off alcohol

by going to meetings that don't cost anything by, you know, here's the other thing, and I'm not, I'm certainly not telling you what to do. I don't tell anyone what to do. You don't have to do it alone. Like, it's not the sort of thing that you're supposed to white knuckle on your own or do because someone else told you to do certainly. But if you wanted to do it, you know, there are ways to do it, and you're doing it, I think it's great that you're combining it with a lot more exercise. I like the post that you did the other day in the squat rack or the bench. That was great. Like the more that you're putting out there that you're doing other things for your health, the better you're going to feel. You know, a number of people have

gotten sober from alcohol. Rich roll comes to mind. You know, the runner, the runner, he's a severe alcoholic. I mean, I don't think he'd mind sharing, me sharing this because he wrote a book about it, finding ultra, but he, which is a great book, by the way, he went to Stanford on a D1 swimming scholarship. And he destroyed his swimming career. Swimming, drinking.

All alcohol. Is that right? Dude, it's a big real deal. Swimmers for all luscious. So when swimmers and hockey players, and hockey players, okay hockey players okay well he doesn't he's sober many years now but you know the running thing helped him he also for him plant-based work best I think everybody finds a diet that works best for them a lot of people that go sober end up putting a lot energy and exercise I know a lot of people

yeah start moving just hands are feeling good yeah but they're also telling like some of that anxiety and emotion that used to go into like consumption of booze or drugs and they go like, I saw I can ran 12 miles and then like, yeah, you can literally move the anxiety out of your body. You know, yeah, that's what I do. That's what I do in the mornings, meaning when I drink,

I would just go as hard as I could in the mornings and then all of a sudden on the anxiety we shake out of me. All the bad thoughts, all I got so much serotonin, then I saw an Apollo plunge and I'd be like, done. And I was like, but now I just get to work out. I mean, I feel great in the mornings. I feel great at night. I'm not defending, not drinking because here's the thing is like all that stuff all the stuff doesn't compare to the sparkle you get after like a cold fucking beer where it just goes It's all gonna be okay You should dance, but you know the back feeling but you know in the back your mind that that

It doesn't mean it's all gonna be okay It's lined you don't need saying it's all to me. This is a business transaction say that you love me I don't give a fuck how I get told I love you just say it in my ear. I don't care if you mean it So you'll tell you for the delusion. That's what drinking is exactly. Yeah But the payment is through your biology, through your living. Yeah. But we're all going to get that day one day. Yeah.

Yeah. I used to use that logic to go. KJX, you know, diving with great white sharks. He's right. Motorcycles bunch of dumb stuff. You? Yeah. Me too.

I just want to have a great white sharks out of the cage too. Yeah. I got a little bit of island. No, no. I got into Catalina. It of the cage too. Yeah, I went no no Catalina it's a little sharks. No, no And we didn't South Africa Well, just keep going because I can't tell you what I Because in Mexico the waters clear you can see them But it's like a three-joke right there. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. Yeah So I'm there twice the KJX thing. I don't go right there. Yeah, you're smart. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Hold on. And then twice the KJX thing,

I don't recommend it. I take quite drinking like the wine comes right now. The wine, listen, I, listen, we're all wine chromosomes in this couch setting. As far as I know, I haven't carried a type of solve, but I'm gonna take the guess, the leap of faith. Look, the wine chromosome is a great thing on the one hand, but it's also what leads people to do stupid things

like go KJX at Great White Shark Diving and have an air failure at depth. You? Me. Yes, all caught on film. We can talk about some of these. Is this like Shark Week or something? No, this was to record fear stimuli

from the VR and my laboratory. Totally unnecessary. Do you realize how different you guys are? Yeah. So, wait a minute. You should be hard. He doesn't need to do any less stuff. You never should. You never should. No.

You're signing up for that. Wait, what happened with the, because we actually were discussing this in Aspen and I didn't get through. What happened with the air failure? All right, real quick. So, Fuck, yes. A good fucking diamond story. Yes so a good fucking dive in story. Yes

okay so okay so 2016 went out to Guadaloupe Island with my laboratory filmed 360 VR for fear stimulus that we could use back in the lab. For that trip got dive certified they have a surface cage right off the back of the boat and then they drop a cage by crane about 40 feet below the surface. And real quick, I just want to, so you got certified for that trip. Yes. So how many hours have you spent in the water before this, this fucking, no, that was a year one. Okay.

I'll take it down one. I spent a good amount of time. I don't know if you did like a, like a resort course and then a daddy certified in Monterey Bay, which is scary. It's helping. It's all in there. The sharks will pick you off and you will never see them coming. Yeah. Okay.

So this is with my friend Michael Muller, who's a very well known photographer down here in Los Angeles, who also takes pictures of celebrities in sharks and does this beautiful shark art. You can see his stuff is spectacular. In any event, year two, 2017, we go back to get better footage with better cameras. And on the second day, I decide to go down in the cage again, three divers leave in the cage exit. And the way that you don't get to eat by a great white shark down there is when you see them coming,

you swim toward them. And they interpret that as, oh, I guess you're not prey and they bank off you and they leave you alone. It's so countered. It's pretty crazy. And those, those guys are on scuba. Wow. I'm in the cage alone. It's so countered. It's pretty crazy. And those guys are on scuba. I'm in the cage alone and I've been in the cage before. Now, remind you it's dropped 40 feet below the surface. And there are a bunch of sharks around and the guys are out of the cage. And I'm breathing off a hookah line

that runs up to the surface, right? Because you're not on scuba when you're in the cage to take a leaf, you're staying in the cage. So I'm just gonna look at this and I'm, yeah, it's cold down here, but I've been here before and that's nowhere coming through the hookah line. Not good. So I look up and the hookah line guy going to bow a constrictor it up into a bundle. So I pop up,

try not to, it's hardest concrete because it's cold at that depth. Okay, it's not super cold, but it's wet suit cold and that thing is like concrete. So I'm like, oh God. So I spit the thing out of my mouth, go down to the safety tank in the corner, turn the thing, nothing. It's empty. Go to the other safety tank. I'm holding my breath, listening to the story. It's nothing. It's empty. Okay. Now I'm afraid. So pop up to the top of the cage. I have a weight belt on, right? I think, okay, I'm going to pop to the surface, but there's literally great white sharks everywhere. By the way, there's all caught on video, because we've got cameras mounted everywhere, we've got GoPro's everywhere.

Those guys are out of the cage, you can shout underwater, they're not gonna hear you. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna shoot for the surface, which is what the sharks like if they're chasing a tuna. We actually posted on my Instagram and elsewhere a picture of a shark video of a shark taking a tuna off the side of the boat. I saw that. He was a vet, he was a shot that. He shot that, yes, I shot that.

Did the blood in the water? No, the one where the shark comes out, he was going down under the boat and chumps that tuna in half like a razor. Okay, so I'm like, I'm gonna die down here though, right? So I'm gonna pull that up. Decide to take off my weight belt, so I don't drop to the bottom of the ocean.

Yeah, it's like, and as I'm doing that, I'm thinking, okay, I'm gonna get eaten by a shark. Yeah, we have it on YouTube and if you go, it's on my Instagram, you can scroll. There it is, on Instagram, dopamine, where it says dopamine, it was back there, if you wanna say, I forget how far back.

Second one down. Second one down. Yeah. Second one down. That's me, I can, yeah, this happened. It was sound, second one down. That's me hiking. Yeah, this happened. It was sound. It's good. I don't know. Yeah, but look at this. Watch this. These are big. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's a big beast. And they are very streamlined in the water. So, the fastest animal I've ever been head to head with, they move with such intention

that when you think it'll slowly but when it decides to turn It's turn quicker than a bull in my opinion and down there what they'll do is you'll be tracking one and You'll be watching and another one's coming to pick you off from the bottom So that's why you need three divers in the water if you're gonna be out of the cage So I decided to hook my arms under the So at this point you take that hook out I'm on look my arms under the ladder. I'm thinking, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, okay, sorry. So at this point, you take that hook out. I'm on top of the cage, I have no air.

I haven't had sip of air in probably 20, 30 seconds. Okay, yeah, there were things. But remember, if you do a big like, and go under the pool water for, you know, 30 seconds a minute, you're okay. I didn't get the big gulp before I, just, I'm just sipping slow and then also not a, so I put my arms underneath the ladder and I'm thinking,

okay, I'm gonna shoot for the surface and then one of the divers I was with turns around and he sees me, I think, and he starts kicking his way toward me with carrying this big VR camera. It's like underwater vacuum cleaner is kind of how to just describe it. And I'm thinking, okay, I might pass out, but at least I'll float to the top most likely.

Finally, he gets back this guy Brock and we do the share air thing. So I'm finally like, and he's like, what is going on? But except now we have a problem because we're under there. They're two guys out. We're now sharing air off of his scuba, of a scuba tank. Well, eventually those other guys get out and we bail out. We, you know, we emergency up to the surface. And when we get to the top, everyone's like, what happened, what happened? I'm like puking up water, a buddy of mine who is on that trip, is a former seal team guy,

just takes me aside the boat and he just goes, so what do you learn from that experience? That was it, like super-melatical seal, this is a typical team guy, and I'm like, check the safeties. It's like, always check the safeties. So it turns out that the divers had been sipping off the safety tanks on the way down because they want more air in their scuba tanks so they can stay out longer. So here's what happened.

That night, I'm like obviously anxious. That didn't feel good. But I know enough about PTSD and I know enough about anxiety and the way that the brain works that I decided next morning. And I didn't, I'm not saying this because I don't claim to be tough, but I got into my scuba gear, put on my scuba tank, went down in the cage and cage excited the next day. Also caught on film if anyone wants to call bullshit on that. Now I didn't do it to be tough, I did it because now I felt like I got past that experience. I never once, I don't like to say I nearly died. I like to think that the Reaper came in and was like offered me a fist bump and I decided

to give him the finger instead. It's kind of, but I'll tell you, by the time we got back across the US border, I thought to myself, what am I doing? I'm like 44 years old or 43 years old at the time. Tenured professors, Stanford, I'm like, do I really need to be KJX at diving with great white sharks? And for me, that that was the end That was the last of any deliberate physical risk taking it was it very important that you did That the thing the next day yes Because I've had like not the same experience, but things that like have been traumatizing They go I gotta get back You have no basketball you have to go you have one sure he brought you bang on you have to confront it

Blue out his knee and broke his arm and half Did you talk about one time one time he just thought he could dunk on a 10 foot rim so I hadn't seen the video I love But he comes from the start Oh, yeah, cuz I went to I went over the comedy store Jason Ellison Whitney were doing some comedy and I said, you know What was this fall? But this was one of the more dramatic basketball falls What happened well, I'll tell you exactly what happened

You still play right? Yeah, go back. Yeah, you have so as he goes. Oh Yeah, go back, go back. Yeah, you have. So as he goes, Oh, yeah. His knee blows out. The leg was already, I see the arms going through the windshield. You are man. I didn't even wore overweight back then. Yeah, but there's also something that nobody, Oh, you sit on the way out.

Well, actually what happened was, it's, I didn't slip. There's an important thing about this that nobody talks about is that right before this, we had been dunking on the hoop as we were raising it. So we're putting everything we have into, we're both like 250 pounds, and we do it at like 7.5, 8.8.5, 9.9. I dunked, and then we were done, because you couldn't do it, so that was the end of it, it was over. And the guy was like, I think you can do a little more.

Raises it up a few inches. You were gonna dunk the ball. That's what I was gonna do. I just did it, and then on my left leg, you just did it on nine, too, so like. Yep, so I was like, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got,

I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I have. I'm gonna tell a rubbish. That's what happened there. The reason it looks like a slip is that this tendon ruptured and then I land on the arm and break it. So it's a double whammy at the same time. Like you just got there.

But it was key. Yeah, and the big thing that I was scared of after this was jumping. Like in other words, you rehab, you know, went through the surgery, all the rehab. And even like I got, obviously first you walk, yeah, I'd like, because everything at you know, went through the surgery, all the rehab. And even like, I got, obviously, first you walk, you had to, like, because everything atrophied when it was in the straight race.

You gotta be smart about how you make it worry back. There's a long way back. But the last thing that I was like, I need to do is jump. And so first you're doing like, you know, these little, little bunny hops. Yep, you have to work your way back slowly. And then eventually played basketball where I was jumping like as hard as I could again.

And, you know know the first time You're like like you have that internal panic This is so tough Trying to become I was trying to get ready for tour and I was going to gym twice a day It's four or five times a week hitting the bench and just going crazy. I started playing ball for cardio and then one day I played for like a little bit too long and two of my...

I'm just coming off of injury. I've been doing a osteo therapy and it's got me back at least like being able to shoot but like I can like barely do like five ten pushups. I was like going going rough so like you look at like an athletic guy so but twice a day in the gym is a lot. I was trying to get bulky one of my homies got bulky and was like yeah this is what we was doing I was like I could switch over my plan try to do that I'm going to try to get this way. Inventor, I was a little bit of a shoulder. There's something about like every time that I've gone into like heavy,

the thing that I always tweak for upper body shoulders. Well, the key is to also do enough pulling. You want to make sure like a lot of people bench, they push up, so that you want to make sure you're doing enough rowing and things pull out. Down to upper back muscles. Yeah, because otherwise the shoulder joint,

you know, it's designed to go in multiple directions. You know, and so balancing, there you are doing a nice shoulder extension. Oh yeah, that was right afterwards. But I think like, you made a really key point, Tom, which is that you work your way back. Air cigar up there, the drop, that's like,

here's the top right. Oh yeah, the video, that if you hit that one, that's when, no, not that one. The one that said, airs, sigur. Airs, grubber's rain. Yeah, so this is like getting back to playing. You're a good shape, man. Yeah, so that was you are. But that was like, you hoopa, let's go. But that was like, that was like, I'm saying that two years, plus to get back to playing like that, you know?

That's crazy. That's great. I'll say you're out there. Yeah, you take your tongue back. I mean, take your time. Yeah, I mean, I was a legit collegiate athlete. That's like that's crazy.

Were you playing football and fun games? I didn't play football in college. The Christian place. That's a real sad joke. You guys are just saying. You know I'm not well yet, but like, you'll just be like, Tom played the NFL. So.

Hey, can Stevie Wonder see? I knew it. I fucking knew it. Can I tell you this? We can't even see. Bro, this is what happened to me last year. I'm just gonna tell you, I'm sitting at this humble brag,

I'm at the Beverly Hills Hotel, and I'm in the lobby, and I'm sitting there waiting for a car to pick me up, and I know there are a few, so I'm like, I'm my phone like this, I'm sitting in the lobby. I look up at Stevie Wonder and drives up in your Uber. He's the only driver. He walks up with it, the dude who's like over here. And I'm like, my mouth drops, right?

I have my phone, I'm like, and he's standing like where you are in distance. I mean, I'm like, wow. And I wanna say something. And then the guy goes, the bathroom's over there, Stevie. And he's like, all right. And then Stevie is like, I'll see you in a minute, man. And he walks and I'm like, I watch him go to the,

I'm like, he's just unguided to the bathroom, right? So I'm like, oh, like he's, he's taking it from there. And I was like, oh, he, he can see that much. He can see. Does he have a little bit of low level? I don't know. I think, I think this is my two cents. You don't have to say anything so you don't fuck know. I think this is my two cents. You don't have to say

anything so you don't fuck up a relationship. Here's my two cents. As a kid, they're like, you always blind, right? Yeah, yeah. And then blind became the thing and they're like, he's like, he's like Josh Potter. He's like, what can you see? Like shapes and shit, but like, but that didn't sell. You needed to be full blind or nothing. You know, like they couldn't be like, this kid just has that vision, but he's also really blind, right? League of blind. There's a range there. Like for instance, there's a really impressive skateboarder. There

are a number of them now, but my friend Dan Mancina, he's a blind skateboarder. He's blind from Retinitis Pigmentosa, and he does legit skateboarding. Railings, grind sounds, you know, all these downstairs does all of that. It uses the cane to have a few things out. I've seen this dude. Yeah, man seen is amazing. Dan the man seen is super impressive. And there are others out there.

He's actually, he has a not for profit to create skate parks for the blind where the obstacles make sounds so they can essentially navigate by sonar. That's cool. Super cool. Super cool. Well, I think that they learn. Like so, Stevie, regardless of whether or not he's low vision as we call it or no vision, not truly no vision or low vision, where they can see shapes.

And sometimes they get kind of what are called phosphines, which are kind of these like, they can see lines. That's right, you're not the light from above. I'm not clinician, but yeah, I know a fair amount about this. They, you know, they yeah, I know a fair amount about this. They learn to navigate through a combination of sound and it's brighter over there than it is over there. We are very visual animals, but we can adapt.

It's hard for us to navigate by smell, but we can adapt to learn. Hard to be an idiot. Hard to be an idiot. I think what Stevie is like what Bert said though is that when you first heard about Stevie Wonder, they just go, this guy is a musician who's blind. And as a kid, your concept of blind is like, cannot see. It's just pitch blind. That's when you think of it. When you were in the glasses.

And you were in glasses, but then you realize that though, even with blindness, that there are like, like, someone can be like, yeah, you can't drive. And we call it low vision. Low vision. Or no vision. But legally blind. Listen, here's what's scary. There are many people who are basically blind.

They cannot see well enough to read who are out there driving because most of your driving is in your peripheral vision. Right, you see something coming, you swear, you didn't really see the details, right? So, you know, nowadays of course, as always you go to the DMV, you wait forever, and then you do the what's called the Snellin chart, where you say that's an A, that's a one that's a two and down to the small ones. But there's a fair amount of liberty there in terms of what they let people see

or not see in order to drive. Yeah, yeah. And then in addition to that, people are texting now. Remember when they used to try and get people to not text and drive? You sort of gave up on that. Yeah, you'll get pulled over everyone so I'll be like, look how many people are texting.

Oh, yeah. It's all the time. You see it hits down. Even with YouTube, you know, where you can talk to Siri or whatever it's called, it's terrible. I mean, people are really close to drive. Who motorcycle and ride bikes are the ones who will tell you that they get that point of view all the time, looking in the cars. And if you tell somebody who ride bikes are the ones who will tell you that they get that point of view all the

time looking in the cars. And if you tell somebody who ride bikes, they're like, all you see is people looking down as they're driving cars. That's what they notice on their bike. Because they look into the cars. They're like, oh, no one is looking up. Yeah. You need some accountability or something. I want to ask you about the feedings. It's on accountability. Like my girlfriend's kids, right, is who used to do this thing, like, we'll give you $5 every time we check our phones,

because even as an adult, right, you're like, oh yeah, I'm not gonna look at my phone. But yeah, you wanna put it in, and then you're putting in something for the map, and then you see a text come in, and it's tough, right? It's tough, you wanna, you feel that impulse, it's, you have to stop yourself. Can I ask you this because you mentioned this

about the shark thing, that it was, it's for your lab and the fear, and I saw you post and I heard you talk about these studies, but what can you, I mean, I know it's obviously, you can probably go into great, great detail. What do you learn about fear by what you guys are doing? Like, what is the lab learning about? Yeah. What is your score about fear by what you guys are doing? Like what is the lab

learning about? Yeah. He's just going, yeah, he should have spent. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, that's super good. So the bullet point takeaway, so that, you know, people fall into bins of, you know, there are some people who handle anxiety very well, other people handle it very poorly. We know this, but what's interesting, one of the things that's interesting is that everybody has quite a lot of anxiety, believe it or not, but it's just that some people have tools they use to be able to work with that anxiety.

Typically, the best thing to do if you have anxiety is to move your body. Anxiety is really your nervous system's attempt to move your body, right? If you're shaking, right? Before going, oh yes. It's, you know, people talk about fight or flight. Yeah, that's one aspect of it.

There is the freezer response, but the freezer response is actually an active response. You have to deliberately try and freeze, think playing hide and seek when you're a kid. Someone's coming through, we're like in a horror movie, the person's hiding in a closet, that's a lot of work to stay that.

Stay, yeah, yeah. It's not like freeze like catatonic freeze. It's not like the fentanyl freeze that you see out there. Different topic altogether. Just had to throw that in there. Fentanyl crisis is real. The thing about anxiety is that some people know how to work with it. They wake up in the morning with it.

Some anxiety, they go for run or they know how to, or they'll sing. They'll vocalize or they'll do something to move it out of their body. People who experience a lot of, let's just call it pathologic anxiety, people who they don't have tools to move it out of their system. And so they're there trying to, you know, they're quaking inside and so, you know, my labs worked out a number of adaptive tools like the physiological side. We've talked about this as a natural pattern of breathing that occurs during sleep, where every so often, you'll double inhale and then do a long exhale.

That restores your oxygen and carbon dioxide ratios properly in your body. This is something you do just naturally about once, every one to five minutes when you're awake and repeatedly throughout sleep. But we've shown, for instance, that if people do this physiological side deliberately, which is, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, pfff, it looks ridiculous, but it's a double inhale through the nose, so your lungs are fully full, and then exhale all your air out of your mouth.

That's the fastest way we are aware of to completely reduce your anxiety. That's a very useful tool. So, if you're heading on, I'm not breathing. Right. There's email apnea, there's text apnea. Um, people tend to underbre, they're overbreeds, but in one of the great things also about losing weight and about drinking zero or less alcohol is that you probably are having less sleep apnea. Why? I actually don't believe in sleep apnea. I think that's over prescribed the same way

alcoholism is. I think it's such a goat underbreeding and sleep. I think so. They're snoring and then there's, but like, there's a severe sleep apnea. Like Joe Koy has sleep apnea. Like he goes, right, he's a gasping guy. Yeah, like I've heard those guys. That helps. But I think what has happened is they look at everyone and they prescribe everyone sleep apnea machines.

Everyone's not met. I don't think we should get on the machines in most cases. I think most people should lose weight. A lose weight. A lose weight exercise. We're also, you've got your, your cut. Doing cardiovascular exercise during the day will improve your breathing at night.

I'm sleeping. I have zero sleep apnea right now. Zero, I think it's, a lot of it, is the inflammation of my throat with the drinking and whatnot, but it's zero sleep apnea. And I have the machine. I don't need it at all.

I feel like keep chopping a little bit more weight. Also, you're a big guy, you're thick. Like you don't need to get, you know, you know, Woody Allen limbs going. I bet terrible example. Gosh, we're picking all the terrible. Like Tom's legs. Tom's legs.

Have you ever seen Tom's legs? Tom's got some wheels on him. No, I don't. Don't the mask. I need to. You did 30 days, you did 30 days of keto, right? What? Have you ever seen Tom's legs? Tom's got some wheels on him. No, I know. He's got some wheels on him. I can't figure out. You did 30 days of keto, right? What?

You did 30 days of keto? I'm in it right now. And how much did you drop? Well, I think about 20 pounds? No. 20 pounds in like, fucking 20 in a month, yeah. That's great. And if you keep weight training,

so this is the thing, everyone needs to think weight training is just for bodybuilding, which is obviously not obviously not true nowadays we understand that everyone should weight train men or women weight train about Two to three days per week and do cardio two to three days per week minimum Yeah, right and because what you know you have those thicker joints here like robust guy Yeah, you know, so as you drop weight if you're weight, sure your weight loss might plateau a little bit, but you'll be adding more muscle while losing weight. I'm curious. I'm curious. I was at one point when we were doing sub-rocktober back in the day. I would, I weighed like 220, but I had zero muscle on

me and I look fatter than I look now. Like in my shoulder, I had no shoulders. Now I'm a lot thicker. I'm the strongest I've ever been. Probably the most muscular I've ever been in my life. And I wonder how much weight versus fat versus back then. Yeah, we could get you into a Dexa or do something like that. That's the thing I should probably get your blood work done, right? I mean, you didn't done so well. You get emotional. Well, then maybe next. The Dexa is definitely worth doing.

Yeah, you should do that. You should do that this week. And whole body MRI, I did this recently. I could mention the company, but I paid for it. They didn't, I got no cut nor did I want any. I did the whole body MRI, because I'm 48 years old. I just want to see, are there any tumors on my liver? Are there any things living in there?

Looks good, unfortunately. There's too much liver. I'm fucked. Luckily, everything checked out. Little white spots on the brain are bad. You're allowed one per decade of life. Luckily, I had one, I'm almost 50, so I'm good. And I boxed a bit when I was younger and I skateboarded,

hit my head more than a few times. But I wasn't a real get after it, type skateboarder. Like I just didn't, my body hadn't really, I hit puberty slow, so I wasn't like super aggro. If I had been in my 20s, it would have been worse. You look like an ad for puberty right now. I've been doing puberty for very long time in the fucking muscles. You go through puberty for very long time in the fucking muscles.

We've been going through puberty a very long time, but I'm telling you that if you wait train and do cardiovascular training consistently, you eat well, let's just say, like minimally processed or non-processed foods, let's call it 90% of the time. I used to say 80, but then Rogan said, I think it should be more like 90, 95 as you get older,

and I think he's right, right? And then every once in a while, you lapse. Although some people do better by never lapsing. Well, all your health markers, how good you feel, I mean, you can feel better than when you were in your 30s. I'm 48, I feel better than when I was in my 20s because I'm sleeping better, I feel better.

Every aspect of health, better. And so just keep doing it. I mean, in many ways, it's of health, better. You know, and so just, yeah, just keep doing it. I mean, in many ways, it's like you're making, it's like a monetary investment. I don't know. I don't know. Does that part of you, and are like the, like, at least, does it entertain what he's saying about, like,

what you could be alcohol-free? Yeah, but... 10 times funnier. What, okay, like, but here's the thing, is but 10 times funnier. What okay, like, but here's the thing is not 10 times funnier. It's impossible. No. And by the way, how fucking lucky did I get that I did? I like, I mean, like, if I had never drank, I might not have the career I have. Too many variables. This is one of those too many variables. Like as a scientist, you want to isolate variables. It's not even worth doing the experiment.

Yeah, I sometimes talk about people are like, what's science say about getting into nature or grounding? I'm like, too many variables. You're standing outside, there's sunlight, there's green, there's birds, too many variables. Nature is just good for you. So it's like, you did it, maybe alcohol had something to do with it.

I have, I have a definite, I would say, hair in my mouth. You know that feeling of like, there's something in there, I have a definite hair in my mouth of the idea of like, how long could we take this? How good can we feel? What could we put out? I think I'm definitely, I'm 100% more present,

but then I always say, what if I got to allow myself the time to, there's a part of me that I grew up with from 22 to here that when I go, who wants to drink and that feeling, that energy, I don't ever want to lose that. It's like a first kiss. It's so fun that you're like,

and it's funny is I'm trying to build intrinsic value in myself by watching him sober last night and go on like, you're's funny is I'm trying to build intrinsic value in myself by watching him sober last night and you're sober from now. No, no, no, I was sober. Oh, okay. I was watching him sober and I went, man, this is fucking still awesome and I don't need alcohol. Right now it's a lot of growing things, but like I'm definitely drinking on my cruise.

I want to drink at Red Rocks. Like there's times I want to, I want to have a cold beer. I want to be a part of the... I want to be back in the matrix, you know, like fucking feel myself plug in and taste the steak. Like I know that sober, it's more valuable and you feel better the next day, but there's a fucking sparkle. This sobriety doesn't give you sometimes. What about the, instead of looking at as a long arc, I mean, here it sounds cliche, but it's a real thing like the whole one day

at a time thing. Like, it was like today, you're not drinking today, you're taking the best possible carrier body. And also the whole idea, like you don't have to do it alone. Like, you know, other people who don't have issues with alcohol, let's not call them alcoholics, aren't going to be the best source of support. There are going to be some people who you look up to

and respect who got sober from alcohol, who could be like, hey, Bert, like I know you're thinking about drinking at Red Rock or the kind of nostalgia around it. That leaves into it, that leaves it. That's not having a problem though. But then what about this, they can tell you there's this other galaxy of experiences

that you haven't had yet. Like the novelty is one of the reasons to be a lot, right? It's, you know, I mean. No, there's, there is, trust me, I've had a bunch of sober experiences, dance with my daughters, I toured at Leanne's birthday party on the dance floor, stoned sober and smiling and giggling and laughing and having a great time.

I love it. I buy also love everything. I like the both. I like the yang and the everything. I like the both. I like the yin and the yang. I like the both I think a guy like you you're so fucking smart you can't you can't fuck With anything but the truth. I like the lie Well, so this is interesting. So this is gets into the psychology of it. That's interesting. This is interesting

Because you're right actually the other day someone I respect greatly who's highly trained interesting. So this is gets into the psychology of it. It's interesting. It's interesting. Because you're right, actually the other day someone I respect greatly who's highly trained told me that, you know, I do have a problem, which is that once I see the truth, I can't unsee it. And I actually used to both admire and resent people who could somehow just erase the reality of what they've done. Now, I want to be very clear, I am far from perfect. I've got thousands of flaws. I've made tons of mistakes. I'm far from perfect. But the thing is, once I see the truth, like, this is better than that,

it's hard to unsee for me. Whereas I think what you said is very important. It's not telling like, ah, we gotcha. This isn't a gotcha. It's you I think you like to live in these alternate universes And that universe feels really good to you So isn't there a way that that can be put on the shelf in the past sounds like that's the the open question That's the open question. I don't know if anyone's had a fucking great time drinking. It's me. It's me If anyone's had a fucking great time drinking, it's me. It's me. If you're saying I had to hang it up right now, easy, easy. Not, if you're saying, if you're saying,

doctor says, bro, you're done drinking. Not a fucking problem. I could go tomorrow for the rest of my debt life. I believe you. It's that robustness. Like you could do it. I feel like you have a whole buffet of options inside of you where you could do it to say, if you, I can do it or you could also do it to say, I love me, I could do it. I feel like you have a whole buffet of options inside of you, where you could do it to say,

if you, I can do it, or you could also do it say, I love me, I can do it. Like, if you're not doing it, I love me, right? And that's good. That's the best reason to do it. But if you tell me, and just so you know, you're cool,

I just the just the idea of the little, what about like guys like, I don't know if he was completely sober at the end of his life. I, how could I, because I didn't know,, but like, I got like Johnny Cash, right? Who had issues with alcohol at one portion of his career, incredible musician, and then later came back, right? Rick Ruebron back, he's doing 9-inch nail songs, like, ended his career, like, back up, not on top, but like, above the top, right?

And he's just, it wasn't a story of this rise and fall that we see so many times. I think of life as a series of arcs. You're trying to layer on other arcs so that the bigger arc is like this. Nobody wants this. We so many stories of this. It's almost like getting repetitive now.

How many amazing performing artists do well overdose, do well, you know, it's sad, right? I'm not making light of it, but it's like clearly they didn't figure out that what work before isn't going to work anymore, right? The Jim Morrison's, like, I mean, imagine if he had kept going, what he could have done. Imagine it's not like their last albums were their best. Like, am I just like, there is a, there is a, 27.

Well, this is why I respect for people that continually renew themselves. Like, we were talking about injuries, Tony Hawk, right? Now, I've known Tony since I was a kid. Actually, his parents was kid, and you guys know him. I know he's been on your podcast and probably vice versa too. I mean, Tony's in his 50s broke his femur.

Great. Most people don't come back from that. He just did the 540, which, a.k. McTwist, that he broke his femur. Most people don't come back from that. He just did the 540 with AK McTwist that he broke his femur on he went back and did it now having healed himself up Yeah, and he's not superhuman. He's just super dedicated and so Tony Hawk is at the top of the game still Yeah, it's wild. Yeah, but there's some guys that should tap out early Like there's some artists for your like Tom wild. Yeah, but there's some guys that should tap out early. Like there's some artist for your like, Tom, man, tell me a comedian that was phenomenal, who didn't OD or something

sad, you know, sadly, OD or something, who just like got worse over time. Oh, sorry. Oh, so these guys will say, I'll send her the bus with all sorts of stuff. Okay, so but they exist, right? Yeah, big zones. Okay. Oh, by the way, for the record, don't think I'm not hyper aware that I don't want that to happen. You don't want to be called,

I'm not saying that's gonna happen to you. No, but it does happen. And you do not want to become a parody of yourself. You do not want to be a simply a meme of what people identified you as being. I think that's why you shaken up. It's why when Tom lost weight and started dressing real nice, all of a sudden I thought I was like, I was like,

he used to be very fat. And so he's, he's, he's bigger than me. And he used to be any fat. What was the heaviest you were? We're about to, I'm six one year. He's probably two ninety five. Nah, he's not even close. You're so mean.

We're about to get, we're about to get. We're about to get, we're about to get 6.4 and as far as I told you, you'd be here 15 minutes. We've been on here an hour and a half. Talk good. I'm chilling now. I'm learning a lot. Okay.

He's a huge. I'm free changer of that. Yeah. 263. Okay. I'm 225, maybe 220 at 6.1, your 6 feet, 6.1, 263. Okay.

Yeah, that's your big boy. But he, but he, he's dedicated and he lost the weight. It was three okay yeah yeah that's that's your big boy but he he's dedicated and he lost the weight he didn't change the story I don't think you were meant to be that heavy no he's he was but he was that that was looking to you with look at you with I'm gonna make you a photo shop. You put this up just to get your life. Sorry. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it.

You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it.

You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it.

You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put a picture of it. You put for the record folks, Tom has a legit set of wheels and that includes cats. But Mark Bell, you know, Mark Bell and the seam, also friends of mine.

Yeah. Two legs. Guys, I mean, they're big dudes. They're big dudes. When he posted this photo, I got so many people like, you have polio. Like, uh, like bro, like. My dad texted, he he goes what the fuck going on with my legs asshole that's terrible that's cruel oh that's him that's me yeah

you never do something like that I would never do something like to get people to say that is how you like that you know what he did to me he told America I was the most racist comic in America and that became my branding for and I was like and you know hard That is the back out of you just have to not say a word for five years He did that were best friends. He is the one that told me I was fact the first time it started Fashioned me me and then it turned into a fucking viral campaign true where we had to do a weight loss competition That is true. Do you have a best friend that does that to you? Or do you just got cool people to go? Hey, how's your day going?

When we did Bernie's fat We did we did burtis fat as a campaign we got videos from people Teaching English as a second language overseas so like I got a teacher in India and he was teaching kids like here's how you order a coke and then he had them say Bird is fat so they sent us the videos of these little kids me like my name Bird is fat It was it was yeah, it was that's it was I could not go online Without going like you know birds order an extra mayonnaise right now, and I would be ordering extra mayonnaise Yeah, I want to hear about you. Oh, yeah, like those are the kids. They're all saying bird is fat like

This is after you started losing weight and then we both started losing Oh Shroom crapped his legs legs. I mean, I don't like shit. You legit deleted his cap. Yeah. Yeah. You legit deleted his caps. Granger and Mark Bell and the CM are both big boys. They are built. I've trained with them before. It's a complaint. But and they're here. They're at least Mark is at in his slimmer state. Yeah. But let's also be fair. Mark has been very open about that his, let's just call it avid use of anabolic. Although, hopefully he's using less now. Nassima is natural and anyone is, is, is legit. He does not use anabolic.

Do you know this motherfucker on the left? He's the best dude. 255. Right now? Right. And this one? Yeah. That's crazy.

And he's like, I mean, and you can't find fat on it. It's crazy. Talk to his pants off and look. I mean, he's training hard. He's training super hard. And he's like, who is he? And see him, there's up in Sacramento, David Sands. And he's a black belt in Jiu Jitsu.

And like his fucking mobility. Because usually guys that big, you know, they're big as strong, they can't move. I mean, this dude is like, well, I'll tell you one thing, is we're going to talk about diet and keto. Let's talk about it. You know, I have a really good friend. He's actually a very well-established skateboard videographer. I don't think he'd mind his name is Jacob. He knows who he is. And, you know, he had struggled, lose weight for a long time. I've've helped a number guys lose significant amounts of weight and keep it off. Okay. I'm not dietitian non-nutritionist You know there a couple things you know first of all we should just establish that calories in carap calories out matters

You're getting keto the laws of thermodynamics apply so at the moment we start saying about keto or you're talking about doing mostly meat Vegetables and fruit people go, oh, you know, are you saying calories don't count? No. However, there are certain patterns of eating where you delete certain macronutrients or reduce certain macronutrients. Macronutrients are carbohydrates, fats, and protein, right? Or you limit the timing in the day when you eat them, then make it easier for some people to reduce their overall calories relative to how much they burn. So there's a lot of debate about, is intermittent fasting better? Is it going to make you live longer?

We don't know. What we do know is that if you're only eating between noon and 8 p.m., and that's comfortable for you, you can just do water and coffee early in the day, whatever, and exercise early in the day, and then eat, a lot of people find that they're sated. They feel better doing that than trying to eat small meals spread throughout the day. Okay. And there's tons of debate about this. But with keto or with what I recommended to Jacob, and it's working extremely well for him, I'll get an update on the total pound loss. But, um, and how well he keeps it off pretty soon. He sends me a text every day.

Seems to be working really well is to you want to make sure you get enough protein. This is why keto is also good. Or I'm not, I'm not going to call out diets like carnivore or the lion diet because they're all starting to modify now too. Like what used to be just carnivore or just meat in the organs is now also including fruit and some vegetables and you know, people are broadening that, that what it means. But here's the deal. For a lot of people when they reduce their complex carbohydrate intake, so they cut out

bread. A lot of people lose 5, 10 pounds just by saying no bread, just doing rice pasta oatmeal instead. Believe it or not, you're like, how could that be? Okay. A lot of people who then cut out those starches, they find they lose significant amounts of weight. Some of which is water weight because for every gram of carbohydrate you ingest, you hold

4 grams of water. So we're approximately that. By the way, everyone should be hydrating well, regardless of the diet. Getting hydration can also quell your appetite, so that's good. But the idea is that for a lot of people just getting that protein should be the main focus. Quality protein. Quality proteins can have high amounts of lucine, which is great for muscle repair. Most people would be wise to get one gram, quality protein. Quality protein is going to have high amounts of lucine, which is great for muscle repair. Most people would be wise to get one gram of quality protein.

We're not talking peanut butter beans and rice. Sorry, vegans. We're talking about high quality protein like eggs, fish, meat, that kind of thing, per pound of body weight. Then making up the remainder of your calories with, you know, vegetables, you probably can eat too much fruit because you're keto, but some people do really well on just having like berries and meats.

Strawberries and blueberries. Strawberries and blueberries. Low sugar kind of thing, you know, stay away from the papaya as the mangoes and the, and you know, in the peaches. But then some people like myself can do pretty well doing that most of the time, but if you do a hard workout,

like a weight workout where you need to replenish glycogen, well, then you can have a bowl of oatmeal or a bowl of rice, and you're good. But for a lot of people, the carbohydrates are the runaway freight train. It's like the other night I had meal down in Austin with some friends in common, and we were joking about the fact that not joking was like you got bone marrow. It's delicious. But the moment you're eating it, what are you eating? You're eating it with a broken?

Yeah, sorry. I know. That's fucking, hey, Joe Joe just so you know your brand is okay. Sorry, as soon as I heard bone marrow, I go, what are this guys? What's the other one like free? Yes, actually, there was a photo that went out, so it's no secret. Okay, anyway, I try not to name drop as you know,

for obvious reasons. And then you have this guy about Elconting. No, no, no, no. Well, there are other people who eat bone marrow besides Joe. Anyway, sorry, Joe, can you blame Bert for that one, Joe? Sorry, I don't know where all the traps are here with these comedians, but so marrow, right? It's delicious.

Extremely sating, you have some marrow in a steak, you feel great, but guess what? The moment you put that marrow on a piece of toast and you taste it, you're like, I want six more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want eight more. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want eight more. It's like you just slurp it up over and over.

It doesn't feel assaiding. And the reason is that when you eat carbohydrate, your blood sugar levels increase a bit more. They come down even if you're not diabetic, but that blood sugar increase stimulates your appetite. It makes you want to eat more. So a lot of people feel better not eating at certain parts of the day, and then better not eating at certain parts of the day,

and then eating only during dedicated parts of the day, or reducing their carbohydrate intake. My thing is, earn your carbohydrate. So if you wait training in the morning, or something you wait for in the afternoon, replenish, you know, eat some starches afterwards. Fine, have some fruit, maybe even some pancakes, if that's like your thing,

but then you have to stop that. And then your next meal should be meat and salad, right? Yeah. Dude, I, and I don't know if this is what you're talking about, if when I was eating carbohydrates, I would make a plate and I would eat it, and then I'd just keep going back to the mac and cheese, and I'm not even putting it on my plate, just getting up, but when I eat keto,

and I have like broccoli and a piece of fish, I eat it and then I go, I'm done eating. Like I literally go, I'm done eating. Well, your brain is foraging mostly for these quality amino acids, right? Which is not to say, listen, there are people who can do okay on a vegetarian or vegan diet, they can.

And I think there's some genetic variation there, especially the endurance runners. Now, if you're weight training hard, you need to ingest enough protein to repair your muscles. You still have to sleep to repair your muscles and do other things to repair your muscles, but you are going to require more quality protein. Now, if you're running, you know, altrues, you're also breaking yourself down. But getting quality protein should be the main frame of your nutrient intake.

And then some people do well with some berries and some starches and vegetables. Some people do mainly well with vegetables, not too much fruit. Some people who have a very high metabolism, like Nassima or somebody like that, and they're training a lot, they need to do meat, pasta, fish, bread, and then there are those kids, right, in their teens and 20s, and those mutants who can just eat and eat and they stay super lean. And let's be honest, a lot of the bodies that you see on Instagram, they're taking either low dose or moderate dose testosterone. They're sometimes also including some anivare.

I'm not recommending people do these things, work with a doctor if you're going to explore hormone replacement. But the reality is that when you do other things pharmacologically, you can ingest more food and get away with it and it will be metabolized. And so people who take growth hormone, for instance, significantly boosts their metabolism. But if you look at people who stay lean over time, they're eating mostly non-processed or minimally processed food. So that includes things like oatmeal and rice, sure.

But mostly meat, fish, eggs, fruit, quality dairy products. Is this what you eat them? Friend Jacob is doing? Yeah. So, Jacob, I like this. I like this. I like this. This is good. So what I do, I'm going to get rid of the carbohydrates because I fucking keep, they make me hungry. They're the runaway train. That's my runaway train. You will be, it is amazing how, how striking it is like, and by the way, I just want to mention something about keto. There's a really incredible book and doctor, named Chris Palmer from Harvard Medical School, who has literally been treating psychiatric illness.

Certain, everything from severe depression, bipolar disorder, different, by putting people on ketogenic diets. Basically, there's a growing movement in psychology now called metabolic psychiatry. And the idea is that a lot of mental, quote unquote, mental illness, you know, it's a phrase that's getting a little more controversial, but mental disorders, mental challenges, mental illness are metabolic disorders that impact the brain. Because obesity and metabolic disorder go hand in hand and metabolic disorder and depression

go hand in hand. Now, there are thin people who have depression, of course, but those people also seem to do well by shifting onto a ketogenic or keto-ish diet, essentially eliminating simple sugars. So what Jacob is on, and it's working phenomenally well for him, and I have many friends who've done this way, and it's going to sound a little bit like the carnivore diet, but it's not really that per se is you just say, you can eat meat, fish, eggs, fruit, and vegetables. And sure a little bit of olive oil, like, you know, you, you know, there's a whole seed oil debate, but some quality olive oil, some lemon juice and things, but that's it. Just try that for 60 days and not a single one has come back

and said, oh, that didn't work or I overrate. All of them are like, I feel amazing. It takes like two, three, two, three days, maybe a week before they're like, oh, the morning toast is tough or like, you know, I wish I was like able to put sugar in my coffee, but you know, inevitably they all come back. They're like, they drop like 30, 40 pounds and they keep it off. And then they use the additional energy like you just exercise more and then now they're out the gate. They're good. And they're like, whoa, they finally got control over their body.

Like this kid I grew up with, this guy Jacob, when we were kids, they called him Fat Jake and he internalized that as his identity. You know, I had Dr. Lane Norton on the podcast. He's a nutrition fitness guy. Yeah, Lane Norton. Yeah, Lane's great, right? And Lane Lane Norton on the podcast. He's a nutrition fitness guy. Yeah, Lane. Yeah, Lane's great, right? And Lane, when he came on the podcast, he'd said, listen, a lot of people who need to lose

a significant amount of weight need to actually think about it as destroying the former version of themselves and creating this new version. Kind of David Goggins-ish, kind of now. The former version, that's why I do that cleanse. The former version for me had a problem with walking to the refrigerator. I needed to change the way I saw snacking,

like just going like open the refrigerator door, I don't even know why I do it, I just open it. And you gotta try to do a fast to reset my brain to go, oh, let's not think about alcohol the way we normally do. Let's not think about food. And then I can start a diet, but I can't just, like it's hard to pull the fuck in.

So meat, vegetables, and fruit. And if you think about what happens there, there's probably a net caloric reduction, calories and calories out still applies. And in addition to that, by eating less carbohydrates, people are less hungry. Then there are not, a lot of people said, oh, I tried that, it tried something in a diet and it didn't work. More often, those people are sneaking calories in the form of carbohydrates.

And look, does it mean that you can't have a slice of pizza at some point in your future? No, of course you could. But what you generally find is that then people, they kind of don't want to, or you do it after you go and do a weight workout. You know, when I'm in New York, I love pizza. So I'll just like get a couple of slices after I train.

It's like, is it the best post workout? No, but I'm in New York. I'm just get a couple of slices after I train. Is it the best post workout? No, but I'm in New York. I'm going to eat a couple of pieces of pizza because I'm a human being and I want to. So I think the idea is that people are confused by all the diets out there. You're living proof that it can be done. And I'm not like a diet guy. I just love to see when people start using behavioral tools. Mostly there's a place for supplementation

and prescription drugs, but when people start doing things like getting morning sun, like getting great sleep. Taking care of their diet, doing exercise. It's like, I see what happens, their careers get better, their relationships and themselves get better, and it's almost like they're like new life breathes into them. And I didn't create any of this stuff. It's like I'm selling them.

I have no program to sell. It's just like, but it works. And then especially when people discover the beauty of weight training and doing cardiovascular training in separate sessions, like there's something magic about that. And you know, it's like, and you know, I'm not going to go on to this whole thing about the obesity crisis. Well, I think it's all interwoven. The mental piece, the family history piece, you know, food, I mean, Mark Bell, he'll

tell you that in his family food was like, you know, they would just gorge themselves with food as he was, yes, he was a power lifter. He was 330. But he was fat. He was 330. He was very unhealthy. And now Mark is running marathon, you know,

and I'm proud of him. I mean, you know, he's a beast, but look at that. Yeah, he's like a, yeah. And he's, what I love about Mark is his positivity. So I'm So I'm telling people to do is like, yeah, I'm out here running So he and around Davis. He's he's just encouraging people to do that He's a very encouraging guy. He's crazy and he this and I and I oh is any of this on your radar It's like Tom and I are huge fans of Andrew and there are a lot of Andrew adjacent snake oil salesman out there that'll tell you, that'll basically just regurgitate

what they've heard him say as if they've said it their own and then, you know, I'm sure you're aware of that. I mean, occasionally I'll see myself advertising a product like the Jawsercizer for which I have no relationship to. Oh, fun. I fucking bought that because of you. I bought that. Listen, listen, I know how to.

We told them to take it, listen, that they, this whole know we're gonna do it again. No, no, this can't, no, I'm telling you. So this kid, this kid, he literally said, I realize I'm not supposed to be doing this, but we're gonna keep running the ads. I do think it's good to be a nose breather unless you're talking or eating,

because it does shape the, your facial structure will benefit, your structure will benefit your breathing will benefit. There's a book published by my colleagues at Stanford, Paul Erlich and Sandra Con called JAWS. This is a serious book by Sirius Akademik, so it's called The Spirit Diamond and Robert Sapolsky, so some serious heavy hitters. And basically, you can take your kids. Some of the kids are, yeah, if you look at that, go to images and you'll see kids that are mouth breathers versus nose breath. Look at this girl. Click on this. Mouth breather prior nose breed forced to nose breathe.

Wow. Look at the aesthetic change. Now look at if you go down to this girl. A lot of dental issues. A lot of yeah there's Paul are these are just by switching to nose and chewing food. Chewing people's food, like chewing hard foods. If, look, I'm gonna just sink jaws or size it right now, not intentionally, but because they poached me to no end, and I told them to take it down, I was not endorsing that product. One of the best ways to build a healthy,

aesthetic and to breathe properly is to simply just chew your food really well. There is something I have no financial relationship to it called mastic gum, which is like a plant sap that they use in cypress where you can buy it. It's like a hard gum when you chew it and that will alter the structure of your face

and master. For women, yeah, mastic gum. Women and men, the aesthetic changes are really positive and impressive in both men and women. I love plastic gum. I love plastic gum. I love jawline. You know, and- But go back to the, because there are tenants that you-

Some people are either size or belong to this. I want to ask this, if this lands on your radar, like Andrew is a big proponent of Morning Sun, of sauna, of cold plunge, not doing cold plunge, after heavy weightlifting training. Weight exactly. Yeah. Atrophy, the swelling of the muscle or whatever, it needs that to grow. But other times, it's great for you.

He's, but I'm curious, does it, have you ever heard of it like morning sun, do you do morning sun? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I get up in the morning. Yeah, I get up in, I've been hiking since I moved here and like you know Take my dog on walks and stuff like that. You dogs amazing. Thank you. The best old dogs, but yeah, amazing So when I don't have no no blind on my

Room window So so the sun comes up I I find inspiration for your music from nature. Where does it come from? Where do you find the work you do? Where does it come from? Are you pulling from conversations? Right now I think I'm pulling from, or most of my life, I'm pulling from my early childhood,

which was grown up in church. My mother played several different instruments and the connection that I learned from playing in church, seeing people, I play a chord and people just start running around dancing and going crazy, like that kind of power, like really inspired me to want to continue to create. And now I think about that often, like, create. And now I think about that often, like, what's the, what's the chord or what's the movement that's going to make people go, woo, and they want to dance or whatever that emotion is. And I'll try to get to that as much as possible. I like to say it's like

spirit music, you know, saying like soul music. And that's what inspires me. You guys are playing live these days in Los Angeles. We're about at the Masonic Lounge tonight. Masonic Lodge tonight. Hollywood at the Hollywood cemetery. When you go back out with your band. In October we go out more yeah mostly through your yeah for about a month and then I'm gonna have a thing, I started a foundation last year, called Living Love Foundation helping to underprivileged youth.

And we're throwing a concert sometime late December. That's probably the next gig I have in LA. With your band, or by yourself? My band and few friends and artists. It was like a jam session. When I saw you at the blue note, yeah, that was my band. That was fuck.

Yeah, the Funk Apostles. Yeah. Funk Apostles. It was. That's cool. So I'm telling you, he did this thing. And I said this to you, I'll say it again, but he did this thing where he went from station to station

and moting a song to that group. group and like you go to the backup singers, then to the drums, and then to the bass, and then to the guitar, and he'd emote it, and then he'd come back, and he'd feel what they were playing. And then he'd, I think you said something. I feel like it's Sunday, we need the spirit in us. And then all of a sudden, I mean, everyone's moving, it was so fucking fucking powerful that I was like I don't have the ability to do that and stand up Yeah, I wish I could figure it out, but it was so fun to watch that like I'll be back I'll be back for that fundraiser. Yeah, yeah

Oh, yeah, it's cool jazz. I love live music. I'll tell you what I'll tell you what and I'm I don't want to I know Tom's probably on a hard out soon But like and I've kept you way longer. Andrew, I could fuck, I would listen to you all I sleep. If I could, let's talk to you all day long. But you're, the reason I went to this jazz festival, I told you this to Tommy, was I found myself listening to the same nine albums. And I thought, that's how you become an old man.

Is you never change? And I was like I want to find new music. I got into this band called Goose. It's a jam band. I just discovered them. I said I'm gonna fucking focus. I'm gonna try. And when I went to the jazz festival I said I want to try to like new stuff. Is there something about maybe learning that like like getting into new shit that keeps your brain young? No, absolutely. You know, the great physicist Richard Feynman, you know, is Nobel prize-winning physicist. It's one of these guys who have, in addition to having Nobel prize, he, you know, he

started learning to paint and draw later in life. He played bongo drums. He was always challenging himself to do new things and he had a very young playful spirit his entire life. We know that when you are in a process of learning something new or in the presence of novelty that your entire set of brain networks shifts the way that it works. Like nothing else looks the same after going and doing something truly novel, right?

A healthy, safe novel, ideally, right? But health promoting safe novel, the reality is that as we age, we get, quote unquote, set in our ways. And people become cramudgeants, and there's nothing worse, right? It's this idea that, you know, it's an emphasis on the bad,

but it's also that we can predict everything that's gonna happen. It's like, here we are heading into an election year, and it's already a while, and you can feel the cynicism set in. There's another way to look at all this, which is, okay, our choices are perhaps not what we would want, right? But like, this is, we're on the front edge of human evolution, like this country needs

to evolve forward. What's possible in the positive direction that can happen? Having some positive anticipation and learning, some sense of hope, like all of that is related to those dopamine circuits. And when the dopaminergic system is cranking, the brain is bathing in what are called neurotrophins. These are things like brain derived neurotrophic factor that foster new connectivity in the brain. Think back to childhood when everything is new and exciting.

You know, you put your kids to sleep at night and you're like, like, you know, what's tomorrow's the first day of school? They've been to school before right unless it's the first time they're starting They've been to school before but it's all this possibility as we get older become cynical We're not bringing in new stimuli like the the great Joe strummer, you know clash But also messicolaro's huge fan one of my favorite things about him in addition being amazing musician is he was a bit of a Philosopher on this topic. He used to, you know, his famous strummer, quote, they actually call it strummers laws. No input, no output.

Meaning unless you're getting new inputs into your system, you really can't expect your comedy to get better. You're the way you interact in any relationships to get better. Fuck you. You know, new inputs, right? New input, no output. His thing is, no input, no output. His thing is no input, no output.

Meaning, I'm like, that's out from your input and that's your opinion. Strommers law, no input, no output. When you, like doing this podcast today, you know, for me is going to be subconsciously and consciously, in addition to the podcast that I do on music and the brain. It was coming up in a few days, you know?

And so I wouldn't have predicted it. So placing yourself into novel environments that grow you, force you to be a beginner, force you to think about things differently, hear different perspectives. This is the opposite of becoming set in our ways and becoming a curmudgeon where you think you know how everything's gonna work out.

And this is even true for optimistic people who don't engage in new things. They're like, oh, I like that food. I like, you know, because within your keto diet, it's gonna be most of the same foods, but occasionally you might want to change the types of foods that are that you eat within that. That will keep the novelty high.

Also with working out, I have a kind of a staple about 75% of what I do is the same thing I've done run three times a week, lift three times a week, same movements, but you know, it's good. About 30% of the time mix it up, but also like you said, listen to music. Sometimes work out in silence. Sometimes listen to comedy. You know, lately I've been going and listening to a lot of comedy, went down to the comedy store the other night and listening. I'm like, wow, I'm learning from this and thinking about the brain. And I have no aspirations to be a comedian and that, thankfully, for everybody. But the idea is that when you're bringing in

new experiences, it changes the potential of your brain to get better at what you already know and do. And of course, learning new things is fun. Try new things is so important. Yeah, I always try to like sign up. Fucking fun, helicopters. Yes, and I would try to do race cars. Yeah, but what I try to do is embrace the,

I think I heard you say it, that like there is this part when you're doing something new at the beginning that's challenging, like, difficult helicopter flying. And you just embrace the fact that you're sick at it and that it's hard as shit. Because the helicopter stuff is actually so much different than fixed wing, you know,

then a plane way more engaged. And there's times when you're just doing whether it's classroom or what you're doing like the pre-flight check where you're like, mother fucker, it's hard. What? But you just go, you know what? I'm just gonna, let's just go through this whole thing

and you embrace it and you get through it and you're like, oh, like, you're embracing the fact that it is gonna be this hard, but also I'm flying with this guy who's got 3,000 hours and he is like, doesn't even, like, it's automatic. You're like, oh, that, that comes with experience. Absolutely. You just kind of like, absolutely, the suffer through it, but the friction frustration,

those are the signals to tell your brain to change. If you think about it, if you could do everything, like, I can't dunk a basketball, my three pointers terrible, but let's say three pointers, because I'm not going to dunk a basketball almost likely, but, you know, maybe I want to have video talk. I can't even chat. Okay, so three pointers, I'm not gonna don't combust almost likely, but you know maybe I watch that video I can't even show okay, so three pointers right that's the word. So let's say I want let's say I want to get my three Poirers to like you know, maybe like 65% Mate you know swishing him 65% of the times. It's gonna be frustrating But guess what if I made every single one the brain doesn't change it doesn't it doesn't change

Okay, if there was some magic like in the movies, you know, where the ball gets redirected and it goes through the net every time, my brain's not gonna get any better. Every time you miss, every time you have a fail, that frustration queues the attention systems of your brain and deploys chemicals in your brain for what? For, on the next trial, on the next trial,

for your brain to be able to modify itself. So when you make a mistake and you're like, ah, you feel that frustration, that frustration is essentially opening the window for your brain to be able to modify itself. So when you make a mistake and you're like, you feel that frustration, that frustration is essentially opening the window for your brain to get better. That's the way to think about frustration. It's a really good thing. It's a great thing because if your brain could succeed in doing things, why would it change? It won't change because the map is already there of how to do it. But the map isn't there. And so, you know, comedians bombing, you don't want it to like, deplete their self-esteem to the point where, you know, they quit.

But you know, those times when you thought something would land in it, damn, bad sense, health frustrating or deporgy. That's really open. Which is not, yeah, like, you know, that's the magic of the brain, which is that it's the only organ in the body that can direct its own changes. So for the rest of your life, try new things. Try new things. I'm doing that today.

Try new things. What I will say is for younger people listening, it's good to get proficiency at one thing that will allow you some forward progress that will give you the option and opportunity to try other things. It doesn't mean doing 50 things or every year you're changing your major not changing like you know I have to be careful. You know at a certain criteria in life for a while was like you know people who finish things and people who don't finish things right be a finisher learn how to be a finisher But because that also meant that you work through the frustration take on challenges

And then you know once you have a vocation and you're hopefully making an income that's sustainable Then you can try new things and shift your vocation and you're hopefully making an income that's sustainable, then you can try new things and shift your vocation, right? But if you're constantly changing up what you're doing, that's not the idea. The idea is to pick something that hopefully does good in the world and that you enjoy and that you can survive on. And then, yeah, try new things, learn new things, talk to different kinds of people and really learn to listen, you know, and I listen to all sorts of podcasts.

Now, I listen to classical music, I've been listening Gregorian chants lately because I'm studying for this music in the brain episode and I'm like, wow, there's something fundamental about chanting. It's like getting into that like real gutter old tones but I've also been listening like Russian choir music. And I'm like, this is beautiful and I'm a punk rocker grew up in that, you know,

will be till the day I die. I've been like, you know, rants, it bouncing soul, it's stiff little finger in the clash. And I'm thinking, wow, there's this whole galaxy of other music like jazz that I definitely need to listen to and tap into. It will, because it changes you. It makes you different for all the other things that you already do. I got to ask you one last thing about fear before we go. In the lab thing, you were trying things to, I think, elicit fear with subjects. Yes.

And you would tap into some of the regular things, which was like sharks, heights, etc. Is there anything that people are more, like, percentage-wise, more people are scared of that you find when you try these things than others? Yeah. Like, is there something that almost everyone is scared of this? Well, the one thing I can do to make anyone panic is hypoxia. I can deprive you of oxygen. And I can have you breathe air that puts you at that sucks. There's one stimulus in the VR that works for just

about everybody. And people go to the VR like I'm not afraid the sharks to some people are afraid because they're not real. But if you're terrified of sharks like the sharks coming through you at you and VR sharks. Sharks was it was not a high percentage. It's about 30% of people really don't like that. VR's very real, by the way. It can be. We had a pair of goggles, we had a pair of goggles that you could click to YouTube, and you'd sit, and you'd look, and you'd be like, wait, I'm really going in a hot air blint.

Oh, dude, I thought it would fucking be our real. I thought I was at a blowbang and a bowling alley, and it was totally because of VR. It's incredible. So, there's a stimulus. I can't. It's hard. I think I missed something in there. I think I will go there. There's a stimulus in the VR where we have, you sit with your fingers on two keys on the keyboard and you're looking at a screen and all of a sudden out of the screen comes hundreds, if not thousands of spiders. And they stretch out behind you. They're not on you yet and they go behind you. And then

they start coming up your body and up your back and on. This is all on VR. Yeah. And you're in your job is to keep your fingers on the keyboard as long as you can. Oh. Now, my friend Jeremy Balinson who runs the VR, a bigger VR laboratory at Stanford, he's really a pioneer in the world of VR. They have them wearing suits that are haptic suits. They're actually getting the tap, tap, tap of the legs of the spiders on you. This is absolutely unnerving for people, even people who like spiders, those mutants that like, you know, the

transula walk on them. It's absolutely unnerving. You can tell by my bodily reaction, it's horrible. And what was the thing that you said that you're, then you're labbed or something with Goggins? Yeah, so we brought David out. This was in probably about 2017. Are you familiar with David Goggins? The David Goggins.

David Goggins, former Navy SEAL, who used to be real fat, ran himself then. Actually, he went to the buds, I think he probably got to catch up. Goggins wrote, yeah, I can't hurt me. He's one of these. Yeah, so think about Goggins, he is every bit as intense as the, I don't want to say his persona because there isn't an like an off camera version, he's just always like that. And yeah, he came out and he was like, I don't like sharks. And we're like, okay, well, who wants to go first?

He's like, I'll go first. Okay, so that's very telling. And then when we asked him, rate your fear on a scale of like one to five, he was like zero. Okay, so for him, he's learned to kind of suppress all those responses. But what's great about David is that,

we did a couple of work days with him. And four o'clock in the afternoon The group is flagging everyone's calling you know, and he's just like no, let's get it. Let's get he's changing into shorts He's a he ran to the airport. He ran from where we were located to the airport It's got to be like 20 miles like what are you doing? He's like with his bag Why was it a big bag? We ran to the airport like I've heard I'm running to the airport, Goggins actually went to here. This is like a daily, it's not like a one-tint of life. Camera's on, camera's off, that's him. Yeah, amazingly impressive.

There's a couple real deals out there in Goggins. And it was one of them easy, but Goggins is definitely fucking wonderful. David, he embodies drive and overcoming one's emotions and narratives of don't do it, I don't want to do it today or that. You see the pictures of his feet, his feet look like they were mangled by a meat grinder. He runs on those things.

He's just basically run his toenails off. Yeah, yeah, he really tough. Those teen guys are built different. Yeah, there they are. Oh my lord. Yeah. But we're talking like, you know, oh, he does like the ultra marathon shit,

like, yeah, for days. That's insane. And he you know, oh, he does like the ultra marathon shit like, yeah, for days. That's insane. And he pushes that, that, well, I wanna say, pushing it in that it's not true, but that idea that like, as soon as you hear that voice, it's like stop, it's like you got like 40% more in there. What's the way to, team guys are trained,

I've done some work with those guys, East Coast and some Canadian spec ops. The way Jocco describes it is great, which is the whole thing of getting them cold wet and sandy during buds, right? They're selecting for people that somehow really know how to embrace the suck. By time they land on the beach and an op, their guns are all wet, they're filled with sand, like nothing is optimal.

We hear so much about optimized optimal. They're starting point is where most people are like done long since done. And that's where they sort of like, okay, day begins. And so they've, they've, like, it's almost like a car that has an extra gas tank that you weren't aware of, right? Because they learn to like run on empty

and then they discover this reservoir of fuel. Yeah. And so that's, I think, what they're selecting for. Who do you think would last longer as a Navy SEAL Meertown? You mean in the training and just training? We're talking starting day one. Who rings the bell first? Goodness. I think you guys both make it through if you're challenging each other, if you're challenging each other. But you know what it is is I have a good friend who was in instructor at buds for many years And then did a bunch and the tier one East Coast teams Very highly respected there and he says that there are three features of guys that make it through buds that

People either have one two or three of these things Played a varsity sport in high school That seems to be common to a lot of them not necessary, but seems to be sufficient You know in many cases, not always, right, doesn't always get them through. Two was suspended or sent to detention a lot in high school, right? And then I forget what the third one is all the time.

But this is kind of like, you kind of like, I think a lot of it is this like they get into this competition with the instructors, like the guys they get through, or like, go ahead, make it colder, like you can't kill me kind of thing. Like I think, so that seems to be a feature of the ones that make it through. Whereas it turns out the pro athletes,

the star athletes, you hear this a lot, get the buds, the guys that get the frog tattoo before they get there, you hear this, they get there and they're used to working under perfect conditions. They're used to being the star. Right. So like what we don't see, we see them running with the boats.

What we don't see are the chafed groins, right, from all the sand. We don't see the fact that a lot of them have the flu while they're doing it. We don't see all this stuff. Like, and I've heard it's the micro things, the splinter in your foot. It's the, that stuff that's like.

The sand in your sock. Yeah, like, you know, it's all that stuff. It's, they're trying to tap into like every thing. Like think about a blister. I hate blisters. Blisters take people out of butts. No joke. You think a blister, how could it?

It's got to be the 20 mile run. No, it's the five mile walk with a blister with sand between your toes. And you don't know when it's gonna stop. You don't know it's five miles. That's I think what calls the average. Yeah, that makes sense. So the answer is you both make it through. Yeah don't know it's five miles. That's I think what calls the average. Yeah. That makes sense. You know, so the answer is you both make it through.

Yeah, we make it through. I already, I think we sell it to Netflix and it starts me and you with our arms every child. And it's just as buzz. Buds. And I think it's cool because they, you know, great admiration for what they do. I mean, in all the spec ops folks, I mean, they're out there like they love, they love the work. This is the thing, like they're out there, you know, the really important stuff, all of it really, we're not supposed to know about, you know,

all the stuff that been laundry and stuff became popularized, but they're out there doing all the work, like they're, they're, they're the spirit of their first in before standard infantry, and, you know, they're not coming back, asking for anything, right? They're, they're, they're, They do it for the love of the work That's why I brought would not like to be a the seal though

I need a little bit of press But what I did oh They don't you can't get you know I'm an award at Montreal He does like what he does get on me and people don't go thank you for the Hordonation You ever so you ever given it go for me. Do they go remain anonymous or put your name up on the board?

When I donate. Yeah. Typically I remain anonymous. Yeah. Okay. Hey guys, for now and I'm just going anonymous and yeah, that was me. He's upset that he made a nice generous donation and that people didn't acknowledge him. Well, you know what you're saying?

So I'd Bob Sapolsky on the podcast, Rob and Sapolsky. He knows a lot about testosterone and primate behavior. So in humans, they've done these experiments. You know, everyone thinks if you take exogenous testosterone, that it makes you a jerk, but it turns out it just makes you more. I'm taking three a day.

Yeah, it takes you more, it just makes people more the way that they are. So. Hold on, what is in the other, what is that? Well, a lot of people think that testosterone makes people, oh, it's a great testosterone. Right, now obviously you want that kids, gosh, kids are doing it so young now.

Like, you can, there's a way to do it safely, talk to a doctor, or don't do it at all, you know, et cetera. Anyway, with that said, suppulski was telling me there's a study that shows that if you give people testosterone, in this case, men, you give them testosterone and you do an auction, a philanthropic auction for a good cause. The guys who take more testosterone start competing to give more money.

They become more altruistic. That's me. So basically they'll compete over anything, but if you're playing checkers, they'll become more competitive over checkers. And if they're jerk, they become more of a jerk, and if they're funny, they become funnier, and so on and so forth. I was at four nuns, a $7,500 trip to Cabo. So I was like, fuck, you're not gonna beat me.

I was like, and they're like, aliens, I don't wanna go to Cabo, I go sister Don, he wanna go to Cabo. He's like, I've never been, and I was like, you're gone. We're fucking, I said four nuns to Cabo, and I gave them drink, you ponds for the fucking hotel, cause they think about poverty

Yeah, I'll fucking get a ton of money around This has been amazing amazing I apologize. We've had you here this whole time I said hey, we'll come in I just wanted to introduce you to everyone But I'm telling you when I start with you guys in the bus did I not tell you we're all similar greatness? I'm so glad to be a part of the hang man. I learned a lot. I bet I listen. I do listen to them all the time I love your podcast Thank you, and and when you were on two pairs are so jealous I actually my big get today is I wanted us to all try nicotine because he says nicotine is really good for your brain

is really good for your brain. Well, no, it's a question. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, It isn't its cabbage. The troche is the pouches that people take in older age, there is some data that can it offset Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, but it does increase blood pressure and it increases

vasoconstriction. So you can scare all the guys by just saying vasoconstriction, not good for sexual performance, right? Yeah. This is the reason people take things like to dial fill a, a Cialis or a reagra for these, a dilation. But nicotine occasionally use occasionally use of nicotine delivered through as something other than smoking or vaping, dipping or snuffing, which can give you cancer can be a cognitive

enhancer. I don't recommend people run out and embrace that right away. They're milder ways to increase cholernary drive in the brain for focused things like alpha GPC, et cetera. But the main one is get the behavioral tools right, learn how to focus, learn how to engage, learn how to put the phone on. You know, but nicotine, it's true. Later in life, I know a number of, I know a Nobel Prize-winning neuroscientist who choose Nicarat, he's in his late 70s in order to maintain cognitive function.

So there's something there. So try Nicarat. So try and play piano. Tsh. Is it a little sin? A little sin. Maybe a little nigger at gum. Yeah. Maybe not before a concert just gonna be.

No, no, when you play by yourself, try it. I'm gonna try it on stage, because Rogan swears by it. Really? Oh yeah, I had a vape pan or a spokesman who goes on stage. He likes nicotine in his head. Before he goes on stage. I have nototine in his head before he goes on stage.

I have not had nicotine in 20 years. I've not had it and I had a problem with it. Okay, well watch your blood pressure. I don't know what your blood pressure is. As your weight comes down, it's going to open up more opportunities for that. For next time we talk, we should talk about the incredible data, again, not recreational use of, I'll just say,

data, clinical trials on macrodose psilocybin for helping people get over out there craving for alcohol, but expand brain plasticity. Macrodose. Yes, macrodose. How much are you a mushroom bar? Will you point me out how much are macrodose? Yeah, I'm talking about a clinical trial bird.

I'm not talking about recreation. I don't need to do it in a clinic. I'll do it in my house. Okay. Do you like mushrooms? It's nice. Yes. I give you a bar mushroom. And do you want some mushrooms? A clinical macrodose of a psilocybin was transformative for my mental health. You did it?

I did. I've talked to openly about the fact that in clinical trial, I've done macrodose psilocybin and I've done MDMA four times. We've macros a lot. Macro is above four grams. Oh, okay. I'm not looking for macro. I'm looking for micro. Yeah. Macro is the best, the data, not the best take-off. Did it take a while? It takes a while for the four to take-off. The data say that macro-dosing psilocybin through a critical trial can be and it can have positive

effects on relieving depression. Anyway, I'm going to talk to myself in your corner here. Look, this was great. It was great. I wish we could do this. corner here. Look, this was great. I wish we could do this. I would do this for another two hours, but it's two bears, one musician, one nerd. You're not a nerd.

You're fucking, I'm being serious. I'm really happy that sometimes you'll run into people like our fans will be like, yo, if I fucking stock groceries or whatever I run, you know, and when I see a new episode every, you know, on Monday, you got me up through lunch. Thank you so much. And that like, and but I'm saying this to you guys, that's so glad to know there are people like you that do what you do.

So differently than what we do so that we can all kind of get to enjoy it. Yeah. Because Andrew, I'm telling you, I live my life under the pillars you put out there because I do. With everything I do, except for Al-Qa, I always skip past that video because it's so boring. But like, and Corey, you are a true, true, true talent. And I'm being serious. It's so cool we got to have this because I went, I found you looking for the thing to keep me young.

And so, and I feel like I feel like I, this has been a great podcast. Yeah, thanks for having us on. Thank you. You're very nice to meet you. I'm a huge fan of you guys. And, he does it too. Well, his paternal grandmother and my maternal grandmother

are second cousins. I thought you were saying that you guys looked alike. No, Argentine Prove it. No, we are, we are actual cousins. 23 and me. They both. Look at the Wikipedia. Yeah, they both like, they haven't updated my...

You guys look alike except you look like Tom's wish mirror where he's like, that's what I would be. I would like to be funny. Like, I'd like to learn how to be funny Both they both have a new learn yeah, I told Tom yeah, he did Because of the best I'm a huge little fun. All right, so guys guys. See you guys. you