2 Bears, 1 Cave with Tom Segura & Bert Kreischer - Mel Robbins Calls Out Bert’s People-Pleasing | 2 Bears, 1 Cave

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

Tom will be filming his new stand-up special in Milwaukee at The Riverside Theater on November 14th & 15th! Tickets are still available in Milwaukee for the November 14th show. Go get your tickets now at https://tomsegura.com/tour . SPONSORS: -Take advantage of Ridge’s Biggest Sale of the Year and GET UP TO 47% Off  by going to https://www.Ridge.com/CAVE  #Ridgepod -Get $10 Off @‌BRUNT with code CAVE at https://www.bruntworkwear.com/CAVE  #BRUNTpod -Give the gift of smooth this holiday season with the Performance Package 5.0 Ultra. Get 15% off + free shipping at https://Manscaped.com with code BEARS. -Order a bottle of Por Osos and some killer merch online https://drinkporosos.com This week, Bert sits down with the one and only Mel Robbins for a brutally honest, hilarious, and surprisingly deep conversation about anxiety, cheating, parenting, and learning how to “let them.” From wild college confessions to Mel breaking down her Let Them Theory in real time, this episode is half therapy, half comedy, and all chaos. They cover everything — why Bert can’t stop overexplaining to strangers (and accidentally tried to kiss Nicole Kidman), how ADHD and anxiety shaped both of their lives, and why it’s so hard to stop caring what everyone thinks. Mel opens up about her own journey through debt, dysfunction, and discovery — and Bert realizes maybe, just maybe, he doesn’t have to fix everyone to be happy. If you’ve ever felt like you’re juggling guilt, stress, and trying to please everyone — this episode will hit home and crack you up at the same time. 2 Bears, 1 Cave Ep. 314 https://tomsegura.com/tour https://www.bertbertbert.com/tour https://store.ymhstudios.com Chapters 00:00:00 - Intro 00:00:46 - What's Your Drink? 00:03:50 - College Chaos & Cheating Confessions 00:13:47 - Nobody Wants To F**k Up Their Life 00:23:12 - FOMO, Stoicism, & The Let Them Theory 00:34:42 - Why We Need to Disappoint People 00:47:55 - Family Guilt & The Dinner Dilemma 00:55:08 - An Awkward Nicole Kidman Kiss & Approval Addiction 01:01:39 - ADHD, Dyslexia, & The Volcano Inside 01:10:44 - What Could Possibly Go Wrong? 01:20:01 - Bert Gets Real 01:31:05 - Wired To Change 01:36:25 - Opportunity Of A Lifetime 01:45:51 - Let Them (And Let Yourself) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Las Vegas on Friday, November 21st at Dolby Live. Get your tickets now at tomsegura.com slash tour. 100%. Cheers. There is only one reason I flew to Austin to do my podcast, and it is not with my co-host Tom Seguer. He is off making his bad ideas show. It is Mel Robbins.

Mel Robbins. Tom told me you were coming. He's busy in the writer's room, and I hopped on a plane and did not drink today so I could have a lucid conversation. I love drinking on planes. Why do you like drinking on planes?

I like drinking. I knew you kind of used to like drinking. No, I like to drink. Yes, absolutely. What's your drink? It depends on the day. It depends on the time of day. It depends on whether or not I'm,

I got an empty stomach. Like, so for example. I love this conversation. So in that, well, I used to, I grew up working in restaurants, and I was, I did everything. I did the front of the house, the back of the house,

the fryer, the busing, the barback, the bartender. I loved being a bartender. There's so much power in being a bartender, right? Have you ever been a bartender? Tom and I take over bars. We have a vodka, and so we'll take over bars. And I can make one drink, and that's a vodka soda.

Oh, being a bartender is one of the greatest jobs in the entire world. Really? Well, of course. Well, because think about it. Like, you are holding court. Everybody, like, needs you and needs your attention. it's very creative you're on your feet

you get to talk to people you make a lot of money like it's fantastic job I would argue comic is just the same but without making the drink and better money yeah there you go well so no I so it depends

so I think I'm kind of like picky about it because I like that you have a diverse group of drinks so I'll give you the time of day okay I love this game okay oh we should do a card game out of this okay I also love cards you and my wife okay um all right

we just got to Hawaii a room isn't ready and we're down by the pool and we have to wait for our room to be ready and the lady comes by and can I get you guys a couple drinks okay it's our first day of five in Hawaii if it's hot as hell I'm gonna order a I'm probably going to order a frozen pinia colada with a dark rum float

but not from the slurpy machine I want it in a blender. I want like the premium cocktail because we're ripping the Band-Aid off. Floater's so important. Right? We're ripping the Band-Aid off on this vacation. So no junkie-ass shit coming out of the Slurpee Machine.

This drink represents more than just having a drink. This represents the beginning of a journey, a five-day journey in a beautiful place like Hawaii. Correct. However, if it's like one of those days in Hawaii that I've seen on TV where it's like super windy and blowing so we're not sitting quite by the pool yet, I think I would want more like a painkiller type vibe.

Okay. You know, pain killer, the drink of the Bahamas and the fresh nutmeg on top, that feels a little bit more like a proper cocktail that wouldn't give me like that headache freeze thing that happens when you drink something that's frozen. Okay, your best friend from college calls you. Yes. Her dad just died. I need you to come over and sit with me.

She'd get into the house and she says, would you make us two drinks? Yes. What drinks do you make? well if she's my best friend i know her father's favorite drink and so i would make her father's favorite drink and then i would raise a toast and then i would ask her to tell me her i would tell her my favorite memory of her dad how many guys do you think dated you in college and now look at you and go fuck i fucked up no they didn't i fucked up i was a to every guy that i dated i just want you to know I am so sorry.

Like I was in peak dysfunction, like especially if I cheated on you, because I was one of those like psycho chicks that clung to you like a blankie and changed my identity to match yours. And then about a year into it, you no longer worked as the cure to my anxiety and insecurity. and then I started to slowly get anxious again and I would get the ick and you want to know how fucked up I was and so many people can relate to this so I'm just going to put it right out there have you ever had the thought that you are too afraid to break up with somebody or to tell them the truth that even though they're a great person they're not your person and so instead in your fucked up brain, you go, I think I'm just going to fool around with somebody else.

And then they'll break up with me so I don't have to like break up with them. You are the same people. We are? We are? Leanne. I'm having an outer body experience in the booth. You're the same person. Leanne, I think we need a chaperone, Leanne.

We're going to call my husband. I've been married 29 years. So, so I literally, I, I have not been to a college reunion because I am so mortified of the person that I was during college. And what were you laughing about? I did that to every girl I dated, every single one of them. Do you know that this is like a doctor, shout out Dr. Daniel Ayman. He basically told me when he looked at all these patterns around anxiety and like really risky, awful behavior. like, oh, this is a, this is really something that is typical of a certain type of ADHD brain.

Yeah. Yeah, there's something, I can't explain it. Somebody else smarter than me can explain it, but there's something around the dopamine flooding and the ups and downs. And, you know, for me personally, I did not understand the shit I was dealing with in my nervous system and in my mind until I did not put together the puzzle or the casserole dish that was Mel Robbins until I was probably 47 years old to be able to look back and go, oh, now this makes sense because here's the thing.

I got to ask you a question. So when you were acting like an asshole, did you have those moments where you would say to yourself, I shouldn't be doing this? Why can't I stop myself from doing this? Why am I such a bad person? Why am I so afraid to just have a conversation with somebody about how I honestly feel? Why do I just twist myself in knots and pretend I'm somebody I'm not? And then I run in a different direction and I think that somehow people aren't going to know that I'm too, like I'm living a double life, that I'm this way with this group, I'm this way with this.

I don't even know who I am anymore because whoever I'm in front of is that's, I just pretend I agree with everything they're saying. And then I go to somebody else and then I pretend I don't agree. And so, you know, people say to me, oh my God, you're so vulnerable. You're so authentic. I'm like, do you know how long I was a liar? Do you know how hard that is? I don't think I'm vulnerable at all.

I just finally woke the hell up and realized it's so much easier to be honest. It's so stressful to pretend to be somebody you're not. And it's so stressful to hide the things that are hard because then you're the one living with this shit. See, I can't swear on my podcast because I want people to be able to listen with their kids. And as a woman, the only criticism you get is about, like, in my case, the turkey neck and the, like, you know, jowls right here and the irritating voice. But I also get tons of criticism if I ever swear. Oh, yeah, that's not. But, you know, I come from a long line of farmers.

and like, you know, bakers and machinists. And so I, like, literally talk like a trucker in my normal life. Was this not what you expected? No, I didn't. I, you know, I thought I was the only really fucked up. Like, I'm very fucked up. I still am. I haven't had my aha moment.

I acknowledge it. And I think everyone acknowledges it. That's the kind of interesting thing about me is that maybe I'm the last one to pick it up but everyone else knows it. Like, you brought back the weirdest memory. Okay, tell me. I want details.

What year? Unless it's going to expose somebody who doesn't need to be exposed. But just kind of give me details. 1997, I'm guessing. 96, 97. And I was in a fight. I have wild, crazy.

I cheated on everyone ever dated and except for my life Now is that how you got out of it That's how I got out of it Yes I just was like I'll just make them not like me

Yes That is the easiest way It's so much easier for me To just hate me Than me to tell you I don't like you Yes and did you then stay with The person you cheated with So it was like the off ramp

Into the next Like monogamous cheating situation Oh I would Yeah and then I'd stay with the person And then sometimes go back To the other person And then I was I was so bad

Yes Why am I laughing? I have this moment that I think of, every now and then it haunts me where I go, that is, that's the real bert where cheated, caught, wanted her back in a bathroom, and I'm crying so that she hears it. In the middle of crying, I stopped crying entirely. I look in the mirror and I go, I wonder if anyone hears this. And I went, what the fuck's happening?

I was like, wait, are you sad? I was like, I don't think I am. I was like, just cry louder. And then I was like, what the fuck am I doing? Well, I'll tell you what you were doing. Because if she takes you back and forgives you, you can forgive yourself. Yeah. Yeah.

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and let them know that you heard about them on our show. It was so... Wait, hang on. So wait, how did you get to this then? What do you get to what? To like you. Me? Yeah, like, right now, everyone's like, who the fuck is Bert talking to?

He hasn't even introduced her. Mel Robbins, if you do not know, and if you're a Just a Two Bears fan and you're like, this fucking woman rocks, you have no idea. She wrote, you have two books, one book that is mind-blowing is let them. Let them. The reason I know you is because your youngest and my youngest are the same age. Okay. We both dropped off at college on the same day.

No kidding. Yeah, I followed you. I didn't know who you were. You got to my algorithm? and you were talking about the process of dropping off and I was extremely emotional and I said, who the fuck is this lady? And Leanne goes, you don't know who Mel Robbins is?

And I went, no, should I? And she goes, absolutely. And I think I DM'd you that day. Really? I want to say I did, but I was like, we both had the same feelings of helplessness of like this, did I really sign up for this to raise them so that then they don't need me?

Yes. And I, and then from that moment on, Red Let Them and was like, oh shit, I never did the other part. You are one of the biggest podcasts around. You are one of the biggest public speakers around. You've hit 180 countries talking publicly. Your books are best, national bestsellers and not the kind that, like, comics get real good ones where everyone buys them.

Not just our fans of our podcast. Everyone buys them. You've, your friends, your peers are the biggest minds in this business, including Oprah. And you are incredible. And you've blown my mind in the first 12 minutes of this podcast. But I want to get to how you got there. Okay. Like how you got to hear.

Because I feel like I really quickly identified with who we both were in our 20s, 30s. And now, but you're still. I was shitting in my, I was shitting in my teens, too. Like, I'll take, I'll loan that. I didn't know I had anxiety. Yes. I remember telling my dad I had anxiety and he'd just go, go back to bed. And I was like, I can't.

The television is yelling at me. And my toenails feel like they're creeping it. I'm like, I'm losing my fucking mind. And so, but you, you've dealt with all of that shit. Yeah. So what was, and I know a little bit of your aha moment. Yep. Of $800,000 in debt.

Yep. Drinking too much, depressed. But get me to the journey. Okay. Because there's people right now going, this is, I want to figure things out. Of course. See, let's, I personally believe that every human being wants to do well. Like even when I was screwing things up and I was treating people terribly and treating myself

terribly, I wanted to do well. I didn't know how. And that sounds like the dumbest thing in the world. But how many times have you, like, no. Nobody wakes up in the morning and says, you know what I'm going to do today? I'm going to fuck up my life. That's what I'm going to do. I'm going to drink that entire bottle of vodka and then I'm going to get in the car behind the wheel.

Or I'm going to walk into work and blow things off so I get, nobody intentionally screws up their life. And for me, I think that there were just so many things going on under the surface that I didn't understand the ways in which. my brain or my nervous system or things that happened in my childhood that were not particularly that like crazy, how they impacted who I became as an adult. And then I started to feel trapped in behaviors and thinking patterns that I knew deep down. I'm like, this isn't me. Like I, it's not that life is supposed to be a party. It's that there was something about the self-hatred and the constant feeling like I was letting myself down or there I just did it again like why can't I get my shit together why can't I I pull it together like it seems like everybody else does and so you know

I lived in that just torture chamber of self-criticism that I think most people do did you ever felt like the self-criticism motivated you well I am a very negatively motivated person I I am my wife calls it punitive. Yes. I thrive off punitive thoughts. Yes. Well, first of all, motivation is complete garbage because you will never, ever, ever feel like doing what you need to do. Period. Ever. It's true. Like if motivation were on tap, we'd all have a million dollars in six-pack abs. Yeah. And anybody that you admire, they didn't feel motivated. They learned the skill that we all need to learn in life, which is pushing yourself to do the things you don't feel like doing. Oh, I wrote in a journal one time, make yourself more uncomfortable.

Yes. As like anything you, it seems like all the good shit that makes you feel good the next day is all the shit you shouldn't, you don't want to do. Correct. Well, I didn't understand this. And I didn't even really understand it truly until we did all the research for the Letthem Theory book that I didn't understand the basic wiring of the, the brain, meaning that your brain is not, your brain changes, you know, all these fancy words,

neuroplasticity, you're wired for growth, it will adapt. But actually, your brain hates change. And your brain is wired to reflexively have you move away from the things that feel hard now. And I just thought it was a defect in me when the truth is that there is part of the the wiring, the survival mechanism that keeps you on the couch because it feels good now and your brain is going to move towards whatever feels good and easy right now. And in order to get your ass off the couch and to go to the gym, you have to force yourself to do what is hard now and you're not going to see any result. And so you got to keep doing it. And so, you know, back to your question, how did you get, how did you get to where you are? I want to

just ground you if you're watching or you're listening right now kind of in the presence. So I'm 57. My husband, by the way, you look more attractive today than you did younger. Well, thank you. I think it's because I'm not carrying all the bullshit. It's crazy. I was with Leanne last night, and I was Googling pictures of you younger. Beautiful.

But for some reason, I find you, and I feel the same with my wife. You're so much more attractive older. It's crazy. Well, I think that when you're somebody who, when you're proud of who you are, When you're not trying to be better than anybody else, when you wake up every day and I'd say 80% of the shit you do, you are aligned with your values and what's important to you, it has a funny impact on how happy you are and how what your health is because you can lay your head down on the pillow at night and go, okay, I screwed that up. I screwed that up. But you know what? Good job, Mal. You know, you did a good job. You showed up with good tensions. You're kind to people. You're patient with your husband. You know, just like every marriage, I drive him crazy. He drives me crazy. And I feel good about how I showed up because it did my best. It wasn't perfect, but I did the best that I could. I apologize quickly when I use that tone of voice.

So 57 years old, I've been married for 29 years. I live in Southern Vermont. That's where I live. Like, I live in the mountains. I live in a town of 3,000 people. I shop at a store where you can buy, your car hurts, and you can buy your feed, and you can buy your fishing poles, and you can get your, you know, everything you need. If they don't sell it, you don't need it. And I'm a small town kind of person. And, you know, to answer your question, how did you get to the point where you have all of this success and this impact? And I will tell you that I learn everything the hard way. I have to screw up my own life in order to learn the lesson. I don't know why I can't read it in a book.

I don't know why I'm not just motivated to do things. Like there's two reasons why people change. One is they either have a moment of clarity and they're very clear about what they want. Or they have massive pain. And it is going to be harder to stay where you are than it is to finally do the stuff you've been avoiding to do. And pain typically gives you a moment of clarity.

And so the Mel Robbins that you see now in terms of the success of the podcast and 40 million followers and, you know, this Let Them Theory book is a global phenomenon. It is sold 8 million copies in 11 months. It's in 63 languages already. I'm the villain in the book. I mean, that's why it's a fun book to read because I'm the one. Well, you're me. So you don't look at yourself like, I was like, I thought we were the heroes. No, no. The clearest thing you say in that book, I mean, it is, it's got to be, it's got to be the first chapter, and this is what I identified with the most, was you were sitting on Instagram and you saw a picture of your friend, and your friend look good, and you're like, oh, she looks great, she looks awesome, where was she? And then you saw a picture of all your friends. Yeah, they were together.

Yeah, and you're like, what the fuck, they're in Jamaica? How come no one invited me? Mel, I was like, I was like, all right, push, pause, sat up. I was like, I deal with this all the time. I had a therapist diagnosed me as having FOMO. And he was like, what? That's the thing? And he was like, I think you have FOMO.

But the idea of not being included, not being, and then I will spiral and I start all their dialogues that they spent their whole vacation talking about me. Yes. They never once thought about me. And now I'm obsessed and I start hating and then and then you go, hey, what about? That was the aha moment for me. Tell me the aha moment. Will you go, well, but what have I done?

Yes. To reach out. Like it happens to me in Austin. All my friends live here and they all hang out and they take great pictures. They have a fucking professional photographer that follows them around and takes great pictures. And I get mad and I go, what the fuck? I don't even know that guy. How's he hanging out with all my friends?

What the fuck are they doing? And then I go, but wait, what have I done? Why don't I fly to Austin more often? Yeah, or invite them to where you are. Yeah, or reach out more. Yeah, or why don't I call more or text more? Uh-huh. And I was like, oh, my God, it was the let me part that I didn't get.

Yes. I wasn't doing that in life. Yes. So just in case you don't know what the let them theory is, let me explain it. You do not need to buy the book. I'm going to explain it to you right now. It is dead simple. If you're a fan of stoicism, if you love the serenity prayer,

if you've ever had a therapist talk to you about boundaries or detachment theory, the let them theory is a modern version of all those things reduced down to four words. And so here's how you're going to use it. Anytime you're stressed out, annoyed, hurt, frustrated, going down a spiral, just say let them. The holidays are here, which means time to give the gift of smooth. Whether you're shopping for your partner or your brother yourself, we don't judge if you shop for yourself. Manscape Performance Package 5.0 Ultra is the ultimate upgrade because nothing says happy holidays. days like a perfectly groomed package. From trimming to freshening up, this all-in-one grooming kit

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I guess I'll have a beer. Order a bottle and some of our killer merch online at drinkporosos.com. Make friends. And it could be an example that you gave where you see a bunch of buddies going off on a golf trip and you're like, what the fuck? And that right there, because I'm glad you gave that example because I wondered about that example in the books. I'm like, are men going to actually relate to that example? The truth is, of course, because it's mentally healthy. it's a sign that your brain is working correctly if you see people hanging out that you love

and you're not included like it's okay to feel like shit i wish i were there the real question though is what do you then do with that feeling that's where we all stop yes we have the feeling and then we go oh fuck them that's right or you then aim it back at you and you go i've done something they're bad and so you know in the example that you gave so it let's say you're driving through traffic and construction and you're running late and you start gripping the wheel oh my god, you can't control traffic you can't control the jerk

that just came in front of you but all of a sudden all of this noise on the outside when you start to grip the steering wheel you just let that into your brain you just let that have power over you do you know how stupid that is? It's crazy I lived on a street

that was one way in Valley Village you can find this fucking street And everyone, everyone used to drive the wrong way up the one way because it was shorter to get to their house. And it used to make me fucking crazy. And then my fucking wife was like, well, what are you going to do? You can't stop it. What are you going to do?

And it would make me crazy. And I was powerless over it. Yet this one thing. And I go, mother, I would concoct. Like, I should get a paintball gun and shoot. I remember one time. And allow me to indulge in this one story. One time an old man drove the wrong way

and we were walking the girls to school. Oh, God. And he almost, he didn't almost hit us, but he definitely drove too fast, too close to us for me not to say something. Yeah, of course. And I said, I got that. And he hopped out of his car

and topped me with his, I run. Oh, I live in this neighborhood. I live in this neighborhood. I go to Starbucks just like everyone else. I don't want to drive down. And we got, I mean, almost hit him with a water, bottle. Two weeks later, I saw him walking on the street with his wife and a walker, he had

had a stroke. And all I saw, thought was, oh, if you keep up this, if you can't let them, for lack of better, if you can't let them and just go, hey, I don't have control over this, this isn't, then you're going to end up one day having a stroke because you were so busy fucking fighting over the thing that, that you couldn't change anyway. but but here's an even deeper thing yeah your time and energy in life is the single most valuable thing you have because what you spend your time on and where you pour your energy determines your experience of life and i want you to really just consider what i'm saying and this is not just some like self-help bullshit this has been true since the beginning of

time that the more you try to control something that's out of your control, the less control you have. That's a huge thing you talk about in the book. Yes. And so I want you to just, I get that the world feels like it's tilting on its access. I get that people are so annoying and stupid and why don't they think a certain way. I get that it is so stressful to pay your bills that things don't seem fair right now. But I want you to consider Why would you allow stupid people or the stress of day-to-day life to rob you of your most precious resource, which is your time, it's your energy? See, you can't control the idiot driving down the street the wrong way. You can't control what's happening in the headlines.

You can't control if AI is going to come and steal your job. And so when you say let them, what happens is you're not allowing anything to happen. happen. When you say the two words, let them, you're forcing yourself to recognize that this is a situation that is out of my control. It's already happened. It's happening. I can't change another person. Like, there are people that are annoying. It's true. There are things that happen that is unfair. It's true. When I say let them, I force myself to recognize, okay, wait, the outside world is getting in here or they're getting into like my stress. Then you say the second part, which is let me, let me remind myself, I always get to choose. The same.

is stoicism. I get to choose whether or not, this is worth my time. I get to choose whether or not I'm going to allow this situation to stress me out. I get to choose how I'm going to respond. What do I want to think about the guy that just drove down the street? What do I want to do? And they're going to be sometimes where the let me part, once you see this idiot going down, you're like, let them. That doesn't mean I'm just throwing my hands in there. It means, okay, let them. I'm recognizing he's stressing me out. Now let me. is today the day I am going to walk over and I'm going to hit the hood of the car

and be like, what up, dude? Like, you almost hit, like, there are times where you do do that, but now you're choosing it. Yeah, you're not letting the, out. Okay, so I've always had a problem with stoicism. Okay. Because I just heard it a bunch.

That's it, really. It's like, everyone was like, oh, I'm a stoic now. And they're like, Marcus Aurelia said, and I'm like, huh? And then I got to the point where I think I called out Ryan a holiday. And then Ryan reached out, And he's like, I'm not smart enough to tell you my problems with stoicism

but I just know that I go I don't know, isn't the sparkle, the fucking passion, the thing that fires you up, isn't that part of the human experience? And I don't know enough about stoicism to say it is and it isn't. But if you're saying that I can understand

let them and let me, is that stoicism? It's how you apply it. See, I've always been, I have never been able to let anything go. I hold grudges. Oh, well, well, I don't hold grudges because it, when you hold a grudge, it means you are allowing the person you're pissed off at to have power over you. Oh, no, no, no.

I do my grudges different. How do you do them? I let them think that we're good and then I talk behind their backs. That's such a waste of time. Oh, but it feels so good. No, it doesn't. Sometimes. Yeah, well, I mean.

I'm so sensitive. It's like, I'm such a nice guy. Then when I go, when you hurt me, like, I go, what, like, I don't know. I'm also in a business full of fucking lunatics. Fair. Look, it's not like I'm just building fences with a bunch of guys. Right, but here's what I want to tell you. Other people are very clear about who they are and how they feel about you.

There's nothing confusing about other people's behavior. The confusing part is the fact that, you know, because somebody's behavior, by the way, is 100% black and white, how they feel about you and who they are. The problem is that we go upstairs in our head and instead of just letting people show us who they are, we live in a fantasy in our mind instead of the reality of what's right in front of our face.

But you've had to have run into people on this journey of yours that you take and you hold close to you and you're like, I found a real one. And then all of a sudden you realize, oh shit that person doesn't was using me for something else well hold on i will also say that if i've agreed to it they're not using me okay but then there comes a time then there comes a time because you have stepped into something and you want something out of it too whether it's i want to be

friends with this person or whatever and here's the thing about trust because you're talking about somebody violating your trust nobody can take that trust away from you because you get to choose whether you give it to somebody and whether you take it back. And so at some point in the relationship, though, you've got to really think about this because there's a lot of dick, there's a lot of like sleazeball people out there.

There's a lot of people that will take advantage of you. There's a lot of people that want access to you. And so they come at you. But at this point, you can spell them coming a mile away. But what happens is you're like, oh, well, I kind of want to, but no, you have to learn to let people be who they are and who they're not.

And you've got to keep your energy in check Because when you do, let me remind myself, I always hold the cards here. Because even if I say yes to this saying, if this person rubs me wrong or says something, then I can say no. I'm such an idiot. So I don't think I was looking at, I was naively looking at any negative interaction as they did me wrong. They wanted something for me, as opposed to honestly saying, at the very beginning, I wanted something from them also.

Yes. And I was getting it. That's why I entered this relationship. Yes. And then... But see, the reason why this is important is because when you really embrace how simple this is, let them is a boundary you put up between you and other people. And what I love...

It does start out, you mentioned, you know, it sounds like fuck them. It does start out that way. It's sort of like the Irish version. And the reason why it's important to say let them. Let's use an example where this is impacting people around the world right now. AI is here. It's coming. And there are so many of you who right now are in a job where you're scared to death that you're about to get fired or that you're about to be made redundant, that you're old, you're this, you're that. And so when you say, let them, what happens is it forces you to recognize this is what's happening and I can't control whether or not my company is going to lay me off. I can't control if AI takes my job now or two years from now. So any stress, any worrying, any gossiping with colleagues or bitching about it is wasted energy and time. I need to do the let me part, which is where you take the power back, go let me remind myself, there are always three things in my control.

I can choose what to think about the reality that AI is here. I can choose what I do or don't do. I can choose whether I sit here like a sitting duck waiting for it to happen, or I can choose to see the reality. reality, because I'm a smart person, that this is coming. So, okay, I'm going to choose to spend my weekend taking an AI training class. I'm going to choose to spend some time going, do I even like what I do for a living? Maybe now is the time to make a pivot. I'm going to choose to work on my resume instead of feeling like a victim. It doesn't have to be just AI because it's, this is so applicable. This is so applicable in so many things and I'm not

thing let them enough and I'm I'm thinking I'm oh wow I didn't you got to understand I was 54 when I figured this out I this is not how I've lived my life I've done my life the other way I've done my life where I have bent over backwards navigating every decision like trying to make people happy and trying to like make sure everybody likes me trying to make sure nobody's like mad that I didn't show up this happens in business a lot I don't want to piss off my part So I better go to that, even though I don't want to go to that. And, you know, one of the things I want to say very directly also is that I think one of the things that I think has been a real disservice to everybody is that women tend to think that they own the narrative that I bend over backwards. I'm the one that's taken care of everybody.

And that may be true when you look at hours spent doing a lot of the stuff at home. but the fact is men feel just as much pressure to provide and you guys feel like if you're not working and if you're not providing then you're not measuring up and that everybody comes before you on the list no I mean this I'm I just had this conversation who the fuck was I talking to. It was, oh, Cody Rhodes, the WWE champion. I wish it was a author or something, but it was the, who cares? But see, this is a thing. This is a universal thing that everybody feels on the pressure to make sure everybody else is okay and that you're doing a good job and that your kids like your spouse likes you and your boss likes you. If I don't work right now,

then no one gets to go to college. Correct. And then all of a sudden, you get the money to get everyone to college. But if I keep working, then I get to maybe take the family on it. vacation. Yes. And then I can be the provider that I want to be. And I have so much regret as a father. I have so much regret. And Liam would deny this if she heard this. What do you regret? That I spent so much time working to make sure. But then in a weird way, there's a there's almost like a bloodletting to it, like a being burned at the stake in front of the village going like, I'm a father. This is what we do. I spent a lot of time in airplanes. I don't want to fly, you know, I don't know what turned on a Trump impression, but, but like, but it's interesting

that you say that because I, I felt so much that like I was bending over backwards for everyone. But I was also following my dream. Yes. Well, because here, here, let me unpack this a little bit. So I'll give you an example. Let's say that your parents want you to come home this weekend because somebody's coming by and you don't really want to go home because you got some other plans that you need to do and you're exhausted from the week of work, but then you know the guilt is going to come and you want to make sure that you're a good son. Wanting to be a good friend or a good son or a good spouse or a good parent, that's a beautiful thing. Absolutely beautiful thing. The issue that I could see with myself is that I was bending over backwards

so that other people were happy with me. And the truth is, there's one thing in life you can't actually control and that's other people what they feel what they do what they expect what they think when they change if they heal you can't control any of that and so i would bend over backwards and change my plans and then go home and what do you hear when you go home it's literally like why can't you come on thursday and so you're like i can't win everybody said they feel i just can't win yes you can because in that moment where you feel the pressure of guilt whether it's coming from a business thing that you need to do or it's coming from a family member

or a friend that needs to borrow your pickup and you don't want to let him borrow your pickup but now he's guilting you because he really needs help with the move and you're like fine you acquiesced in order to make him okay what the let them theory taught me

and I did not get this until I was 54 years old is that there's a different way to approach that situation and the situation is let them be disappointed oh oh my God I can't Yes, you can't. Let me unpack this. Disappointment is an incredible thing because...

Okay, I'm going to stop you. Okay. But what if you disappoint them and then they no longer want you in their life? If you disappoint somebody... That's been my fear, is that I will disappoint them. And by the way, I have five thems I can think of right now. And then they're going to go, fine.

Who's next? And then I go, well, hold on. Hang on, I can be there. Let's not say, let's not... Don't worry. I'll be there. I'm, I'm your one.

Okay. What I'm going to tell you. And Tom's, Seguer, you're one of these motherfuckers. Well, but what I'm going to tell you is that if somebody

is going to want you out of their life because you disappoint them once or twice, that is a relationship that has an emotional tax that is too expensive to pay. Okay.

And the reason why you get into these very, transactional relationships is because, you know, we're relational people. Like, we're designed to be, you know, connected to each other. And so if somebody can guilt you and hold their relationship with you over their head and it works, they're going to keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah. Just like a dog with a treat. Like it works. How do you apply that one in business? Well, let's say you've got a sponsor of this podcast. Let's, no, let's do, I'm going to do you. Okay. Give me one. Um, uh, let's use Netflix.

Okay. Netflix is like, you know, we want to do the Mel Robbins show. We want it to be weekly. Okay. We want it to be like three hour long talk with you and your favorite people. Yep. We want you to move out to L.A. Uh-huh.

And, uh, this is easy. Oh, are you in? No. Oh, okay? Absolutely not. Oh, but you also, okay, but you don't need it. Well, I don't, like, like, I, I think that there are times in your life. And so let me unpack the example that we'll go back to Netflix.

Okay. So in that situation, the buddy wants to borrow your pickup truck, you don't want to lend it to them. Your parents want you to come home for the weekend. You already get plans. You don't want to go. And the guilt sets in. And then you feel like the crush on. I'm going to disappoint people.

We don't even think about this consciously. We just feel the pressure. It just happens so quick. So this is how you use a let them theory. When you start feeling that pressure, because it feels like tension, right? Why? What are you? What are you?

I started. You said it happened so quick. And it just happened to me. Why? Who are you thinking of? Mark Norman Okay I was literally like

Mark Norman and I both We just Okay here's what we're gonna do We're gonna lie to the guy With the pickup truck And tell them we're on our way And then we're gonna go to our parents' house And we're just gonna keep straight in this one

Like Mark Norman and he doesn't I feel bad that I included him But we do the same thing We're another friend of ours Would be like How far away are you really And you're like Five minutes

And I've never told someone Exactly how far I am In my life Yes I'm like 20 minutes and you have to know that's fucking 45 minutes. Of course. I'm not even out the door yet. I'm telling you. I interrupted you

but I was immediately immersed in that. But see we can all feel it and so that's when you go let them because what's happening when you feel that like in your body is the pressure to make everybody else okay has just gone into your body. So let them

is just you going okay let them and now the pressure kind of disappears for a little bit and you can say let them let them let them fucking be mad like because the i find a little attitude helps you detach from the emotion that's making you go like this so now you go to let me part and you say this okay let me ask myself what do i want to do do i want to not because i feel pressured to lend the pickup truck not because i feel pressured to go home what does a good friend mean to me in this moment what

is being a good son mean to me in this moment? And now I get to choose. I get to choose whether or not I'm going home under different terms. I'm only going to come Saturday. Or I get to choose, hey, buddy, I can't do it Tuesday, but I could do it next Thursday. Or I'm just not comfortable. It's a brand new truck. You have a shitty, like, you don't take care of your stuff. And that's just how I feel. Well, man, let them. Because here's what I'm going to tell you. When people are disappointed it's a good thing it's been my biggest fear but disappoint people but people are only disappointed because they want you around oh like imagine a business meeting where you're like you're sponsor the podcast like we're so disappointed man it's going to be a great thing

like what is the opposite the opposite is oh thank god that asshole can't come i can't stand him disappointment is oh i just wanted you there i care about you it doesn't mean you have to do anything yeah i know you're so good at seeing the other side of the fence i have such a hard time looking over the shrubs to even see that there is a fence yes well and and it's not your responsibility to make other people okay and it's not your responsibility to remove the tension and frustration from other people's lives it's your responsibility to show up in a way that makes you proud of who you are because you know your intentions and you also know that it's really important that you start to pay more attention to the things

that are going to make you operate and feel like, you know, I know I'm a good son. It doesn't mean I have to bend over backwards and go out there every single weekend. I could use you on speed dial. But so, and again, like I have to say this is simple wisdom that was learned through a lifetime of doing it the other way. I was so transactional

in my friendships just like everybody else. Like if I invite you over, you better invite me over. Like, you know, we see a lot of feedback from folks, you know, in families where people start

saying let them because their siblings really piss them off. And that's why we have families to learn how to love people you hate. Like, that's why everybody has a family. Because you can hate people

sometimes and still love them. And what saying let them allows you to do is it allows you for the first time, like your mom and dad aren't changing. No, they've been the same people. And if you have somebody that's got a challenging personality in your family, they're not fucking changing. Because people only change when they're ready to change for themselves. And so when you start to say, let them, let my brother be a narcissistic dickhead, you know, let my uncle drink too much. Let them, let them, let them, let them, let them. you're training yourself to see people and accept them as they are

and now you get to choose if I know that this is how this person is do I just want to limit the time? Do I want to drink a little more because it makes it a little bit easier? Do I want to limit the amount of time I spend with that person to a day? But still showing up with my family

is important because I value family but I'm going to stop expecting them to change and I'm going to recognize that things only change when I decide to change how I show up. That's where all the powers. yeah and again i learned this a hard way i'm not sitting here better than anybody else i'm not sitting here saying i know best i'm saying i caused myself so much agita when i think about my

poor husband chris oh my god and um because he's had how you've been 29 years 29 years so he's only gotten he had 26 confusing years and three really good ones yeah because like if you're talking about like because all i'm thinking about in and and And this is like when my daughters were young, we all lived in LA, my sisters lived in L.A. I lived down the street for me. And me and my wife lived on the same street as my sisters. My parents are coming down. And my dad would say, hey, we're going to do dinner tonight. Yep. About nine o'clock. And my wife would go, will the girls have a bedtime? Yep. And he'd say,

well, I'm not, what time can you go? She goes, well, you know, bedtime's seven, five would be great. And he goes, really, I don't want to go to dinner at five. Okay. And it would turn in this huge fight. And I was straddling the fence, wanting to have dinner with my family. And my wife would just be like, let them go to dinner. Yes. And I couldn't get past the controlling of it of like, no, I want to have dinner with my family.

And my dad was like, doesn't matter. We're going to dinner when we're going to dinner. Great. And I would be, I couldn't let anybody. I couldn't let her stay there. I couldn't go with them. I couldn't, and it would, it would just paralyze me. I think that's so relatable.

And what starts to happen when you recognize that you can't control what people are going to expect, what they want from you, you can't control their opinions about you, when you start to say let them, like in that example, like I really respect that you guys knew and were aligned on the fact that, look, we have little kids, you're fucking retired, like, you came to visit. This is the program during the week. The kids are going to bed at seven, whatever. We're going to have dinner at X if we want to go out, that you guys knew what works for you. And when you say let them, you're not kind of, like, what happens is you're taking a step back from getting pulled in. Like, you know how there are people in your life that, like, they almost like fish for issues?

And then I'm the idiot that's like, roon, grandpa on the thing and fighting with the thing. And so when you, just like, let them dad if you want to go out at nine no problem and you're welcome here until you go out would love to have you i'm gonna have dinner with my family i'm gonna tuck in the girls and then i'll come out and have a second like meal with you but you know i you got to do what works for you and we're just in the thick of it dad now you're not freaked out and if you know that because here's it because two things can be true at once you can be an incredible dad and an incredible husband and you can know that your kids need a certain bedtime and you can also be an awesome son and you can figure out how to make room for both if you want to, if you want to.

Yeah. Like, I think the thing that we forget, like, this has been this, there's a, I can't remember who the expert was that came on the podcast, who said something about how, as the parent, the responsibility for the relationship is with you. Your kids owe you nothing. because if you believe that your kids owe you something, it means that everything that you did as a parent was transactional. You were putting a deposit in this.

Do you know how many times I'd be like, you're going to act like that? I just bought you those jeans. I bought you those jeans because I'm your mom and I wanted to buy you those jeans. Now I'm holding that shit over your head. This is why women are psycho, because we moms are screwing them up.

Like I'm like I literally, Like, everyone's complaining about, about, like, the 20-somethings. I'm like, we better stop complaining about 20-something because we raised them. Yeah. I screwed this up so much because I was telling you. I just had that sort of, okay, I call my brother. He better call me back. And if he doesn't call me back, now I'm going to notice that he's not calling me back.

We're keeping score with one another instead of really just letting people, like, be who they are and letting them be who they're not. And also, I think everybody right now is going through a lot. And when you start to say let them, even to the person that might be rude with you, I was somewhere today and, you know, there was a particular person who just had this edge that's so unnecessary. Nicole Kidman. I didn't meet her. I don't know. She seems amazing.

I tried to kiss her on the lips. You did? How did that go? No, well. Wait, but she's like a lot taller than you. Had it, you wearing heels? No, no, no, no. We were at, uh, it was so fucking awkward.

It was. Were you drunk? No, I was stone sober and my wife was next to me. It was, it was, it was New Year's Eve. And we were all celebrating New Year's Eve together. And everyone was just kissing everybody. And like, and I was, and like, I kissed bunny. I kissed jelly.

I kissed my wife. I kissed Keith Urban. And then I just went to go kiss her and she was like, and I was like, ah, fuck, what am I doing? Why would I do that? And then I laid in bed with that the whole next day. Let her, letter. Like I...

Yeah, letter. But also the context of that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, letter. Let her. Let her have her opinion about you, because she probably doesn't have a bad opinion about you. I bet she doesn't remember me. Probably not, but you're the one now that is torturing yourself. I wish, I would just, I just wish I wasn't always me. Like sometimes, like, even I just told you half of the story.

Okay. I didn't tell you the part where when I went in to kiss her and she pulled back I then I was like I'm really excited for your new movie she was like, huh? And I was like the one where you have sex

with the young guy and she was like and so then I was like why the fuck? Wait, was that the one were you talking about somebody else's movie? I don't know.

I just said that. It was so awkward, Mel. I have a, I have a, I'm, yeah, I'm my own worst enemy. I get so, excited in moments. I think I live outside myself. Uh-huh. And by the way, as you're talking about all this shit, my dad, I need you to meet my dad because those, there's so much sunpack there. I love the guys. I think I love him too much. Is it possible to love your parent too much? Well, is it that you

love him? Or is that you really need him to approve of everything? Because those are two different things. It's the second. Okay. But I love him. Of course. But his approval is the most important thing for me. Yes. Like, yeah. But that's, but here's what I want to keep validating. That's a really awesome thing to want people that you love to be proud of you and to know that they can rely on you. And it doesn't mean that you have to do absolutely everything that he needs you to do.

like the beautiful thing about human beings is that we can feel lots of different things so if we go back to the disappointment thing there are going to be moments where you disappoint your dad and when you say let him let him be disappointed it just means that he expected me to do something different and he can be disappointed and still love me think about how many people piss you off

they don't do what you want them to do you have an opinion in your mind that if only they were more motivated or if this get and you have all this critical shit about this other person and you still love them and if they really needed you you would be there so we know that we do that for other people and yet we don't understand that other people can feel two things about us at once this is marriage by the way right because there are times where leanne hates you there are times where chris hates me and he also loves me to death This morning she hated my guts.

Okay, what did you do? I gave her a hug and she had a headache and she goes, don't do dare, touch me, don't. Don't you dare, don't do you dare, don't do me on day, I won't wait, no. And then I, but then I did, I was really good today as I was like, she got a headache. Yeah.

I was in such a good mood. I was in such a good mood. I said, I'm not going to let this affect me. Great. And I gave her space and by the time we pulled up to the airport, her headache medication kicked in and she was like, I'm sorry. And I was like, hey, it's okay, I'm here for you.

Wait, I got to ask you some, I haven't asked you. any questions, I don't think. I think I've just listened to, and this is, I'm, this is, I hope our listeners are letting this soak in the way this is soaking in with me, because that's the beautiful thing about this book, is that it, it's a great book to buy for other people, and I'll tell you why, because you've been trying to change them your entire life, turn them over to me. And, well, I, oh, fuck, my wife got me this book. Yep, that's why. Oh, shit. Yep, that's Why? Hold on. She.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. This is going to be under- Are you fucking kidding me, Leanne? This is the best holiday present, the best graduation gift, because you literally are going to give people their power back, their time back, their energy back, and you free yourself of the burden of now trying to change everybody in your life. This book has brought so many families together because we've all been so busy. judging each other and being pissed off and being transactional and I want to host Thanksgiving and you don't do this and you're not helping. And in all that judgment, we actually distance ourselves from people. And when you're just like, let my sister be a bitch today, you know,

let my mom, you know, be annoying. Let my dad, you know, do whatever he's going to. I mean, they're 80 years old. Learn to love them as they are. And when you learn to see people as they are and as they're not, you are less stressed and you're not bracing. You have this kind of looseness to you and it gives you so much power because you can see exactly what's happening. It's how you take responsibility and how you take your power back and look at the word responsibility. Responsibility is just the ability to respond.

Do that again. Responsibility. responsibility is the ability to respond so if you're responsible you're just you're just able to respond people can trust that you're going to respond yes and that you're able no but who who who trust you do i can trust in my ability to respond to what life is throwing at me in a way where i may not get it right but i'll know i did my best i trust in my ability like a big thing for me one of the things that i really struggled with is I was like a walking volcano. Really?

Well, I just had so much pent-up anxiety and frustration with myself. And, you know, just to give you a little bit of the backstory, I found out at the age of 47 that I had ADHD. And women are, women and girls, rather, girls and boys are dealing with ADHD at roughly the same levels. But in the 1970s, when it was studied, they only looked at boys. It's just boys. Yes. I was, oh, yeah, I'm your age. What am I talking about? Yeah. I was like, that's something that thing happened to me. Yes. And so they only looked at boys and-attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Yeah. And when you look at the symptoms and how they present in boys and girls,

boys tend to be a little bit more physical and fidgety and, you know, interrupt class and that kind of stuff. Girls have the opposite effect. What happens is you get quite. it, and you start to get very self-critical, and you start to pull back a little bit. And what the medical experts say is that the number one symptom that haptons when a kid, boy or girl, has undiagnosed ADHD, ADD, or something like dyslexia, which I also have and did not know until I was 47. Do you just say that? Dislexia, yeah.

By the way, my ADHD kicked in so much that I didn't hear the word dyslexia. And I was like, wait, what are we talking about? I have dyslexia too. So does my daughter. My daughter's got it wild. Yes. And it's this incredible gift if you know that you have it. Yes.

Yes. Because your brain, we'll get in that later. So if you are sitting in a classroom all day and your brain developmentally cannot do what is being asked of you, whether it's to be able to direct your focus or just quiet your body. or be able to pay attention to the teacher versus the grumbling in your stomach or hearing the people over here, what develops on the surface is anxiety.

Of course it would, because you're in a situation where you're bracing because you know everybody else seems to have it together, but your insides are on fire. When the teacher would go, all right, let's pull our notes,

or notebooks, let's take notes. Mel, I would just sit there and go, what words do we write down? And I do the thing, because it was like you put one and then A with a thing like that and I would be like an outline and I go

notes and then I'd be like and then look at other people's notes okay write down Jesus of Nazareth or whatever and I've never studied for a test I don't know how I graduated college I don't know how I graduated high school

I don't know how I ever I still have a hard time telling you information you can tell me something and I just, and I totally forget it. And I, the anxiety I had growing up was wild. Of course. Just wild. But doesn't it make sense? Now it does. Yeah. And thank God, because it turned out good. But I feel for all those people listening right now going, wait, I got that shit. And I'm working at Walmart. You go, yeah, I know that happens too. Yeah. And look, Walmart's a great company to

work for. Like, there's no shame in working at Walmart. Like, I think, like, the thing, the thing, that is really important to understand is that if there were, if you had an issue with the way that you learn or with the ability to focus when you needed to, and it did not get addressed what develops on the outside is anxiety and what happened with, they call us the lost generation of women. There were almost two decades of us, women who had dyslexia or ADHD or ADD, who we didn't know. And all of a sudden, you become the psycho chick that I used to be. And now you have chronic anxiety.

I used to chug milk of Melanta, the blue bottle. I remember that. Before a track meet, because my stomach was on fire. I couldn't get myself to focus. Like, the anxiety after being in class all day and terrified that I mean, it called on and I don't know what's, it just spirals. And so there's decades long women who were medicated for anxiety when the primary issue was a learning style difference

or a focus and neurodivergent thing like ADD or ADHD. Yeah. And do you know the number one way that women find out that they have ADD or ADHD? Oprah? Nope. You have a kid who's struggling in school and you go through the neuropsych process.

You got one of those? Oh, all my kids, like all three. of our kids have dyslexia. For real? All three of them. And two of them have also have struggled with ADHD, but here's that our son Oakley was really having a hard time in school. And the anxiety was through the roof. And everybody kept saying he was in fourth grade like, no, it's behavior. No, it's behavior. And I'm like, no, I know my kid. Like he's not. And he was starting to develop these bruises on his hands. And he would come home and I'm like, did you going to fight? What's going to start crying? He's like, I don't know, I don't know. And then I realized, oh my God, he's ringing.

his hands in class to the point where he is bruising his own hands because he is so anxious. And so luckily, this was at a point where we could afford to get a neuropsych exam. And as we get the results back, and I'm going over them with our pediatrician, he's reading through, he's not dyslexia this, and he's going through it. I'm like, God, that sounds a lot like me. I'm like, Dr. Blumenthal, do you think I might have ADHD? And he turns and he looks at me and he goes, do I think you? Mel, you're the most ADHD parent. I have in my practice. Do you know every beginning of every school year, we're waiting for you to call in a panic because you have forgotten their well appointment. And now the like physicals are due and your kids now can't play sports and you're in a panic to get them in. You are the, and I looked at him and you know what I said?

Why didn't you tell me? It was like, I'm not your doctor. I was 47 when that happened. I went and got evaluated. I tried Adderall for the, it was like everything went. And I got to tell you, I felt so sad for the teenager 20. That didn't get to. And I feel so.

And this is kind of one of the things that drives me is that there were so many times in my life where I like hurt myself or I hurt other people because I didn't know like what I was dealing with. And I didn't know how to like get myself out of like the behavior or the thoughts. I didn't know that other people felt this way. I didn't even know how to talk about it. I mean, I'm 57. So 30 years ago, you wouldn't be caught dead in a self-help aisle. Nobody went to a therapist. like give me a break. And so we suffered alone. And, you know, it's probably why I would constantly be drinking all the time because it quieted my brain. I just didn't know. We took Ila to brain camp. I don't know what's called. There's such a thing. That's cool. We called it. We called it brain camp. It's, I don't, it's sure there's like a real name for it. And I don't know. It's like it's like it was like brain therapy. Dislexia, 80 to It's just, Ila was, Ila was, there was a lot going on. Did it help?

Yeah. I think. Well, I think it also helps to know that it's not you. And to also know you're not the only one? The lady was explaining what was going on with Ila to me and Leanne. And she said, you know, usually this has, there's a parent that has this. Leanne's like, Leanne looked at me and I wasn't listening.

And I was doing. what my brain does. And she goes, Mr. Chrysher, and I went, are you from Edmonton? She said, excuse me? I said, where are you from in Canada? She goes, I'm from Edmonton. I said, just outside Edmonton.

She goes, yeah, I go, do you have a boyfriend with a truck? She was like, why does this matter? And I go, did you? She goes, yeah, and I went, cool. And they go, you know what we're talking about? And I was like, no, what were we talking about? I just, whatever my brain was doing was on that. And that was my skill set, and I have no ability to listen.

I have zero ability to, and I feel bad. It's almost nice when you said that when you're getting a little emotional. I was like, yeah, I could forgive myself for a lot of this shit where I was just like fucking lost. Yeah. Like I had no coping skills. Wait. So then a weird sidebar question. I'm always fascinated by you are these, this, for lack of better words, not full.

processed human all the way up to like 54 and then all sudden life changes and you become everyone's answer everyone you everyone looks to you and and all of a sudden you have you have wealth and you have everything you've ever wanted what's 54 to 55 look like that had to be confusing right so so this is since you and I are both crazy at each and the same person I'm going to take us all the way back to the beginning okay when you ask the question question, how did Mel Robbins that we see today get here? And now we'll go to the part of the story where I'm 41 years old and my husband's gone into the restaurant business. And I love this. By the way, I love this part of the story, I think. So we're, we got three kids

under the age of 10. My husband has been laid off from like the seventh job that he has had because he is now, he's trying to climb the corporate ladder. He's trying to, you know, prove to his dad who has died that he can be successful. And my husband is not motivated by money. He's not motivated by status. The man would live in a yurt if I would allow it. I will not. Yeah. But that's a whole different conversation. He is such an extraordinary human being and he is just, there's nothing corporate about the guy. So he gets laid off. off and comes home and says, uh, I lost the job again. And I am pregnant with our son, who's now 20. And he said, I said, no problem. No problem. You know, you could get another job. Honey, we're going

like, I'm trying to pick up my man, you know. And he's like, no, I don't, I don't think I'm going to get another job. I was like, excuse me? He's like, yeah, I'm, I'm tired of working. for other people and trying to sell things that I don't believe in. I'm not going to do that anymore. And I looked down, we bought this old fixer-upper. It has raccoons living inside of it. You know, we were the whole buy the cheapest house you can find in the best. We bought like Ammyville horror.

Yeah. And I'm, you know, working full-time. And I'm like, is there like a trust fund I don't know about? Like, what do you mean you're not going to work? And he said, no, I'm just tired of being miserable. I and we got in this we got in a huge fight we fought for a month on end fighting with you is so confusing well because because back then I also would fight when I'm mean I got I'm like a mean fighter no oh come on now I'm being serious I think I think I think I usually I get

lost in fights like I can't oh you're like the kitchen sink you throw this shit and you try to confuse us no Leanne will confuse me especially if I'm drinking and I'll and then I'll be in the fight going wait what are we fighting about I forgot All I know is I'm fighting to say she's gaslighting me And she never says that she never missed a gaslighting me But I know she's gaslighting me But I can't remember what the original fight was about But I bet you

Oh no, I, I, I, one of the things that I've worked very hard on Is to get, you talked about like holding a grip I do not want any of that anger energy in me Yeah I just don't like I I feel like if you're somebody that's very self-critical And you're frustrated with yourself That frustration with yourself can come out

And you can lash you. out at the people you care about most. And then once it's out of your mouth, you cannot like claw it back in. And then I was the person that was constantly apologizing to my kids and my husband for my tone of voice. Oh, wow. Okay. I did not want to be that person. Oh, yeah.

And so... My daughter, Georgia, said, just to you know, when you yell, that's as bad as it's going to get. So why wouldn't I lie? Because what if I get... Best case scenario, you don't find out and I don't get yelled at. Yeah.

But you're just going to yell, and if I lie, you're just going to yell more. So maybe try not yelling. And I went, huh. And then I was in therapy at the time, and I took that to therapy. And I was like, all right, maybe if I don't yell at all, maybe if I just try to listen to her. And then the next time she took her car out, she had friends in it. And she wasn't supposed to. And I was like, she came back.

You could see it in her eyes. He's going to yell. She was like, go ahead, give it to me. Like you almost like, all right, how bad can this be? I've been here before. Yep. And I said, you're not in trouble. I understand you break the rules.

All I want you to do is write like a thousand words, not tonight, you can go out with your friends, write a thousand words on why you think that upsets me and mom. And she started bawling crying. She was like, wait, you're not going to yell at me? And I was like, no. I go, you started yelling doesn't work. And she was like, but I know what you're saying.

The tone. Keep going. No, that's okay. Don't apologize. It's a great, great story. And I think it's very helpful to hear it. I um so I got to get I got to hand it to Chris like he really just just stood up said no we're doing it and I said fine you let's sit down and look at the money and by cutting back he could do a 16 month runway and if the

if the restaurant was open by then we couldn't afford to open the restaurant but if they raise money and if they could get the cash register ringing and if they could make a certain amount of money by a certain amount of time, he didn't have to get a job. But if 16 months went by, and I'm talking like, nobody wants to do this. Like, everybody wants to talk how they're struggling. But, you know, if you really are struggling with money, the first place you have to look is actually where your money is going. Because the average person in the United States has over $700 in subscriptions that are sucked

out of your paycheck. What's the name of the podcast sponsor? You have to do work with these people. then we have a podcast sponsor who goes through and gets your subscriptions. Oh, Rocket. Is it Rocket Money? It's Rocket Money. It's Rocket Money. They fucking rock. They're awesome. Why you wouldn't use this? I don't know because you're going to see so much stuff that is sucked out of your paycheck. It's crazy how much money they can save you. Crazy. Keep going. I apologize. So anyway, so we did all that. We cut back and by God they got the restaurant open. And it was amazing. Amazing.

40 seat local pizza joint, you know, working with the local farm. It was amazing. And then like complete idiots. We ignored everybody's advice and we cashed out the 401k's we cashed out our kids' mediocre college funds. We took out a home equity line because that's free money. We got every credit card we possibly

could because what could possibly go wrong in the restaurant business. Friends and family invest. Did I tell you this was 2007, 2008? No. When the world turned upside down? No, no. Oh shit. So location number

number two was the wrong location. This happens. Every restaurant tour will tell you restaurant business is wonderful restaurant for the person who buys the restaurant from you. But if you are lucky enough to get beyond one location out of the first three or four, one of them is going to fail and that's likely why you will fail. And so it was location number two for them. Twice as expensive, wrong location, knew it from the beginning. Six weeks in, they knew it. They just knew it. And by that point, it had showed up all the money that they had raised to get the third one open. So now we're factoring. Now we're doing a lease plus. And, you know, to speak to, and this is something that's really important to remember in a relationship, remember who you married.

Because in those moments where life gets really hard, you forget. And then you turn the person who's trying their best into the monster. And when life gets really hard, and it will for all of us, you want to remember who you married, because again, nobody's trying to fuck you over. Nobody's trying to screw things up. Nobody's trying to go bankrupt. Life is so hard. And, you know, one of the things that I really regret is that as, you know, the liens hit the house, I lose my job. we have three kids under the age of 10

that I made Chris the enemy because it's easier to be angry than it is to be afraid and I was so afraid I had never in a million years thought oh my dream for my life I'd love to be a million dollars in debt let's have liens on the house

let's make a vision board with bankruptcy and divorce on it let's throw up some alcoholic anonymous up there that's the dream for my life and so again to this point where we all want to do well we all want to thrive life is going to happen life is not fair i don't think things happen for a reason i think things happen and then it's on you to find a reason to keep going the most important thing i've heard you say this whole fucking podcast is remember who you married because god damn it lian you remember when priscilla had her knee I edit this shit out Don't you dare

Don't you dare edit this out Our dog had like fucking five knee surgeries And Leanne dealt with all of it I was on the road And she took them to the vet That was like you know ten minutes away And the vet was a hack me left a wire in her at one point and it was so painful for the dog to but for the girls to deal with the dog and and then we found this really great vet but it was so fucked up you had to get on the five

and then you got off the five and his office was on the on ramp it was so it was so hard to get to and you had to get the dog in the car I mean it was such a nightmare and she had two young kids and then that doctor was like oh I wish you had found me first I was so mad at Leanne as if she wanted the dog to go through pain as if she wanted to look silly as if she wanted to be blamed that if we had just gone to this first doctor and I was so mad at her

and I not that I mean I've I haven't been holding on to it but when you said that I was like remember who I married she didn't want that shit to happen and if it had been me and I had two young girls at home and my wife was gone and this dog needed knee surgery absolutely I would have gone to the

closest vet to get it done what do I know we are not dog experts but it's so funny it's so much easier it's so much easier to go none of this is my fault this is all your fucking fault yeah oh wow so wait how did you're wait tell me what happens with Chris. Oh, Chris is amazing. But so, like, I turn him in, like, as if he's trying to fail. Yeah, as if he wanted to go. The guy, the guy, literally, they're bouncing payroll checks.

We, we have, we're $800,000 in debt. We have liens on the house. The phone starts ringing. It's collectors. I, I unplug the phone as if that's going to make it go away. The bills start piling up on the kitchen counter. And if you've ever been in the situation, you know, one of the hardest things in the world is to open a bill.

I've never done it. I, like, I, the bank, I used to do this thing at the grocery store where, you know, they'd be scanning the items. I knew there was no money in the account. I was unemployed. I knew there was no money. And they're like, debit or credit. And I'm like, credit. hoping that there's a glitch somehow in the electrical wires.

And when this sucker swipes, they're going to let it go through. And they'd be like, I'm sorry, it didn't go through. And I had it rehearsed. I would cock my head and I'd go, oh, that's weird. It just worked at the gas station. Come on, kids. I've got another card out in the car. And we would leave and drive away.

and I became a person I did not recognize. I literally drank myself into the ground. I would lay in bed and the alarm would ring and I'd be like, I hate my life, I hate Chris, I hate fuck this. Like I would hit the snooze button four or five, six times every morning. You want to know how you know you're failing at parenting? Your kids wake you up and you are hung on. in your bed after hitting the snooze button four or five times because they've missed a bus and that's

where my story begins on the verge of losing everything like being a complete bitch to my husband who's doing everything you can to figure this out drinking myself into the ground and and this sets up kind of the core of what I started talking about which is you can know what to do, that just makes you smart. Oh, and, and, and, and when you talk about being uncomfortable, the hardest thing to do in that situation, you're angry at your husband, your, your, your kids, or, you know, and you're drinking, the hardest thing to do is go, I'm not going to drink tonight, because it's so easy to drink tonight.

Yes. The glass of wine is the one solace you have in that day is, hey, I get a glass of wine at the end of this night, and I'm making this all go away. the next morning, you're like, God damn it, I'm in the same fucking spot. Yes, yes. And so this was like day after day after, I knew what I needed. I needed to find a job. I needed to call my parents and tell them what was going on and ask for help.

I needed to tell my friends what was going on, but some of them, they'd invested in the business. I needed to, like, start, I needed to exercise because I was so stressed. I needed to eat better. I needed to have one bourbon, not four. And so when people ask me, how did you get where you are, the answer is I learned how to get out of bed on the mornings. I didn't feel like it. And the story is very dumb, but this is what happened. I was sitting in our living room. Chris was nowhere to be found because he's a very smart man. It's like, I don't want to be near her. And I'm watching TV and I'm having one of those pep talks that you have with yourself. When you're like near in the rock, bottom and you're i was like all right that's it woman tomorrow morning it's a new you tomorrow morning you have got to find a job you have got to tell your but you have got to stop screaming at chris you've got to stop drinking so much you got to pull your shit together woman and by god when that

alarm rings you cannot lay there like a human pot roast marinating in fear you have got to get out of bed and get those kids on that bus and all of a sudden this rocket ship launches across a television screen, and I'm like, I was so drunk, I'm like, it's a sign from God. I hear you, Lord, like I'll do it. I'll launch out of bed like a rocket ship. I could have so easily just dismiss that moment. I could have so easily, like I often think about that sliding door moment, because I do believe you're one decision away from a different life. A hundred fucking percent. Now, That's what changes the trajectory of your life, one decision. The results show up over time.

Yes. And so you have to keep making the one decision that keeps you moving in the right direction. But for me, that one decision was the very next morning. It was a Tuesday morning in February, 2008. The alarm goes off. And let's use the alarm clock as a metaphor, right? For all the alarms that go off inside you every day. your intuition, your confidence, your desire to thrive and do better.

It is sounding all day long in small ways. So the alarm goes off. And I immediately remembered the rocket launch. I mean, I'm the one that set the alarm. If you're really thinking about it, you know what to do. Getting out of bed is technically simple. But some days, it feels like climbing Everest. And so the alarm rings.

I remember that idea. And then this is when I saw something that changed my entire life. And this was the beginning. This would lead to the beginning of talking about the things that I was fucking up and that I was learning. And it leading 16 years later to this moment. So the alarm goes off. And what happens in life is we make this fatal mistake where you hesitate and you stop and think. about whether or not you feel like doing what you need to do.

How many of us have stayed in a relationship for six months, six years, six weeks too long? Because we walk, today I'm having that conversation. Today I'm having that conversation. And then you're like, hi, honey. You want you where? And you're like, I don't think I feel like whatever. And next thing you know, you're sliding into the life you don't want.

Yeah. And so I see this. And there's this five second window that defines your whole life. I love this. This is your first book, right? Yeah. This, I love, I love this. I fucking love this.

It literally is this five second way. It defines your whole life. It's this moment between knowing what to do and actually doing it. And if you think about doing something for more than five seconds, the brain science is very clear. Within five seconds, all motivation is gone. The automatic parts of your brain and all the old habits that you have, they kick in. This five second moment of hesitation. That's where all the excuses, all the anxiety, all the habits, it all kicks in.

It's all in this winter. You either win in that five-second moment or you're fucked, or I was. And so that morning, I started thinking, I don't want to get out of it. It's cold. It's dark. I hate my husband. I hate my life. Like just reaching for the Susan's button.

I just started counting backwards. Five, four, three, two, one. And then I stood up. And I'll tell you, it's the smallest thing. But even in that first morning, it felt like a victory. Not like a victory like, yeah, but just like this. Oh, because it was a first morning in six months that the anxiety and the depression and the anger didn't win. It was the first morning that the person that I wanted to be acted consistently with who I knew deep down I could be.

And the thing I will tell you is that you will never feel ready to change your life. But at any moment you can decide that where you're at no longer works, it just doesn't feel good. Maybe it worked last year. Maybe it worked for the last 10 years. But if there's an area of your life that you just, it just doesn't feel like the way you want it to feel. The most beautiful thing about the human experience is we are actually wired to change. and it can take hold pretty quickly. Doesn't mean it's easy.

It's not easy and it feels that thing you said, it feels so fucking good. Yes. It feels crazy, almost like an awakening. Yes, but it doesn't sustain you. So I always say to people, if you want to know how I became the person that you see now, it's because I taught myself

how to get out of beds on the mornings I didn't fucking feel like it. And that skill of being able to act no matter how your emotions feel, that is the skill that everybody needs to know. Like if you're struggling with

depression, your emotion and the disease is lying to you. And everything that your doctors are telling you to do, you're actually capable of doing, but it's going to require you to force yourself. And it's like moving through mud to

do the things everybody's recommending that do work, knowing that you're not going to feel like it. And I also want to say something. I hate all that research. It says it takes 21 days to make a habit. I think that's complete horseshit. That's only true if you like it. I am a person who to this day hates getting out of bed.

There is just something in my wiring. I hate getting out of bed. And just this morning, 5, 4, 3. I have to use this because, you know, I pick up the dog shit. want to pick it up. Yeah. I pick it up. I don't like unloading the dishwasher.

I do it. You can make yourself do the things you don't feel like doing, and if you develop that as a habit, you will actually have everything you've ever wanted in life over time. And so the shorter version of the story is I used it. The only person I told was my husband. And I use this little countdown thing, 5, 4, 3,21, from 2008 to 2011. I probably used it 25 times a day, 5-4-31, pick up. the phone. Tell people you need a job. Five four three one, go for a walk. Five or three to

you one, don't buy that thing at, at, at, at DSW, five or three to one. Listen to what she's saying. Five four three to one. I don't want to date, right now, you don't want to date that girl anymore. You're done with her. And go cheat owner, just five, four three to one. Make the call, set a text, say, we have to have dinner. I need to tell you something. Yeah, I need to talk to you. Yeah, that's it. That's it. You're never going to feel like it. And by the way, if it feels hard, that's a good thing because it means you care about this person. Like, like the, the, the, the, the Important things in life feel hard. Everybody wants to tell the story, the rags to riches story of, you know, I was sleeping in my car and now I'm here, but nobody wants to sleep in their car. Like this is the price you pay to have the things in your life that you want. And it's not easy. And I will tell you that those three years, they were grueling. It is not easy to work three jobs. It is not easy to take a breath before you walk in and not vomit your stress. on your family. It's not easy to have one bourbon instead of four. It's not easy to, you know,

work all day at a job, put the kids to bed, make dinner, clean up, feed the dogs, and then try to figure out how to make more money. But that's what I did. Like everybody's like, how'd you become, I'm like, it's boring, it's grueling, it's you against you, that's what it is. And it's what, and every day you wake up, you get another blank page. Are you going to do the things that are easy, which makes your life hard, later on, or you're going to do the hard thing now so you can put your head on the pillow and be proud of yourself

because you didn't let the emotions and the stress, which are very real, by the way. You are justified in feeling how you feel. Now what are you going to do about it? And for me, I didn't want to lose a house. I didn't want my story to end at 41 that we went bankrupt. I didn't want my marriage to implode.

I didn't want to be an alcoholic. And there were days that I felt proud of myself. There were so many days where I didn't. It's like, I kind of think like change, like you go up a flight of stairs, you hit a landing. Doesn't mean you didn't go up the flight of stairs. Then you're going to go up again. Yeah.

And so you're going to have days where you do well, and then you're going to have days where you really blow it or weeks or months in my case. And the true test of who you are is what you do on the morning after a day that you blew it. Because you get to choose, all right, am I going to just pound myself into the ground and be the one, the biggest obstacle in my own way, because I am arguing against myself every step the way, or am I going to brush myself off, and I'm going to say some of the best

days of my life are ahead of me? And through my attitude and my actions, if I just stay focused on today. And if I just make decisions that based on the information I have, I'm making the best decision I can, that's minor start. And so I did that for three years. And we started to get back on track. And we didn't pay off. We had liens on that. Like, we had liens on the house for like year, like long time. Because it takes a long, that's a lot of money. And so I, I have worked a couple jobs. I'm now, like, got a full-time job. The restaurant business is still cratering but they're at least able to like stabilize it we're on payment plans for our credit cards you know we got the drinking under control and somebody calls me and says um as a friend from

college she goes you know there's somebody doing an event in san francisco and uh they're looking for somebody who's changed your job a lot and i thought of you like that's not a compliment but and she goes i said i okay and she said they're looking for somebody to talk about i'm like well i've never given a speech and she said well they're offering two plans tickets to San Francisco and two nights at the St. Regis. And if you're, you've got liens on your house, you know what that sounds like? A vacation. So my parents come babysit. My husband and I hop on the plane. This is 2011. Wow. Yep. And it didn't even occur to me, like to think about the speech. I've never told anybody about the five second world. I really feel like I've been given

this little secret thing from God or the universe, right? Only Chris and I know about it. And, and, this 5,4, 321 thing. And this was one of the first ever TEDx conferences. I didn't even know what TED was. So I walk out on stage. If you look at my TEDx talk, which is now one of the most, like, watched ones in the world, look closely at minute one.

You will see that I have that neck rash of people get when they're wasted or they're having a panic attack. I am basically disassociated. I am having this huge anxiety, moment, darting all over the stage, talking about career change. I don't even remember being there. And at the end, about 19 minutes in, I look at it, I completely forget how to end it. And I look out at 700 people and I'm like, oh, there's this thing I do. I call it the five second rule. The moment you have an instinct to move, you got to move within five seconds, or else your brain will kill

your motivation to act. Thank you very much. Oh, and if you have questions, here's my email. I leave a year goes by and they put it online I don't even know it starts to go viral I'm busy working my job paying my bills

you know we're just like slugging it out and all of a sudden people start to email me at this email address oh I saw that thing I've been using the five cents I lost 100 pounds oh my God I got sober because oh my God I didn't

jump off a bridge because I stopped and counted 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, then, like, found the ability to ask for help. And people started to write about these incredible stories, and I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it. And I would work all day, and then I would come home, and I would put the kids of bed, pour a glass of wine, and I would sit there and answer people's emails every night. And in 2013, people started to ask me if I would come speak for free, you know, to talk and redo the talk. And I had so many, like, stories of people.

And that's why I'm actually in Austin. Because in 2013, one of the first people to ever invite me to come speak and redo that talk was the Texas Conference for Women. And today, I walked into Moody Stadium. 13 years later, and spoke at that same conference. Wow. Only now I was the headliner. And so I didn't know that normal people could get paid to speak. I didn't have a book.

I wasn't anybody. I just was somebody who was trying to do a little better. And I got so much fulfillment just emailing back and forth with people around the world about how they were using. using this thing. And so long and the short of it is, I had this experience where I was speaking for free at another conference because I just didn't know you could get paid because I'm an idiot. And somebody comes up to me at the end of 2013 and says, hey, you know, I spoke at one of the breakout sessions this morning and I just sat in your session and you were really great. And can I

ask you a question speaker to speaker? And I thought she was going to ask me like about the PowerPoint or something. And she goes, did you get your check yet? I said, check you you got paid for this and she took a step back and was like oh my god i'm so sorry i just assumed i just assumed you and so i had like i've had a couple moments in my life you i don't know if dudes do this but i've had a couple moments where you're in public and you just either get crushing news or you are so overwhelmed by like I don't even know how to feel and I don't want to cry in public or scream or punch a wall

that you walk into a public bathroom and you then walk into a stall and shut the door and with your pants on you sit on the toilet and either cry or yell or like I've had a number of those. I don't cry that often but yeah I can imagine that would happen. Yeah and so and then I didn't know what to charge

and so steal this because this is great if you don't know what to charge for your service here's what you're going to do The next time somebody calls you, because this was the little promise I made to myself, the next time somebody calls me, I'm going to use my own five-second rule, and I'm going to stop myself from just saying yes. Yeah. And then I'm going to say, I think I'm available, what's your budget?

And that's going to give me a clue as to, like, what the money is. Because also keep in mind, I still have liens on my house. Yeah. I am still, like, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. my husband is now in 2013 leaving the restaurant business he is a shell of himself he believes he has failed as a father that he has failed to provide that he has lost people's money and so i'm also like in like kind of resentful bitch syndrome you know literally like i can't rely on like it's up to me it's up to me and everybody's felt that again you forget who you married you forget that they were

doing the best that they can they were trying and you get to choose. Are you going to show up in a way that actually lifts somebody up so that they can do their best? Are you going to be part of the fucking pile on? You get to choose. Jesus Christ.

And if you always assume good intent, you force yourself to take a step back and go, okay, like, this may not be working, but is the way I'm responding to this person helping? Or is it actually making it worse? Because then you're part of the problem. and I was majorly part of the problem.

This was not on Chris. I was a full participant in everything that happened in terms of us losing the money, in terms of us making dumb decisions, and then turning against each other. We were both full participants in it, whether you might not be the person that lashes out like I am because I have the volcano anger.

You might be the person that pulls back and then hides, but you still have the resentment inside you that's not getting expressed. And that shit does not disappear. It explodes in other ways. Oh, yeah. And so I then was going to say, and this is what you say next, 535-13.

They say what the budget is, and you say, well, normally I'm double. And then you wait. Okay, so two weeks later, the phone rings. The phone rings, and it's a guy named Darren, and he's calling from Dallas, Texas. And he said, hey, my wife has seen this, you know, TEDx thing that you did, it's going viral on Facebook, and her company is doing a sales conference. And I've been in the speaking business for 20 years, and, you know, she asked me if I

would just do her company a favor and call you up. And I said, great. Yeah, it sounds great. You know, what's the budget? He said, $10,000. I dropped the goddamn phone. Five per three to one. I'm in. Yes. I forgot the second part. But that was like three to four months of our mortgage. Yeah. That was more money than I could imagine. A lot. And so I said yes.

And then I felt so unworthy of that money that I hired a graphic designer and paid them $5,000 because I believed that I needed the presentation to look like $10,000. And it was the best thing I could have done because it force me to prepare. And there are moments in your life where you have an at-bat and when you step up to the plate, you want to fucking know it and you want to put in the work and you want to be able to fucking swing for the fence. And I felt so unworthy of that money that I, and, you know, I was so scared of the

state that, you know, Chris was struggling and we were not out of the woods that, that I destroyed it on that stage. And the guy Darren was there and he came up to me and said, oh my God, I've been in this business 20 years. You're by far the best female seeker. I've ever seen in my entire life your top two of all time, maybe even top one, who like runs your speaking business? And I said, you do.

And to this day, Darren Powell runs my speaking business. Are you shitting me? I am not shitting you. I am a person that is about people and loyalty and you got to pay attention to who is with you in the beginning. You got to pay attention to who is there when it's not sexy. Like lots of people want to be in your life. I call them the shiny people. They want to be in your life when things are going well.

Yeah. But you want to pay attention to and really value the people that were there in the dirt with you. Those rider dies. Yes. And a lot of times they're all around you if you're willing to look for it. And I really, it's one of the things that I do respect a lot about myself is that a lot of people get a lot of success. And then they forget that the people that were there in the beginning, they were also working for this success. Yes.

And so don't be that person that's like, well, now that I'm making a lot of money, you shouldn't have your 10%. bullshit. Wow. Yeah. And so I, within a year, had been booked 47 times while I was working a full-time job. The next year I was, I did 97. Within three years, I was the most booked female speaker in the world. I said, yes, yes, yes, yes.

So this goes back to your Netflix conversation. I would have literally, I would have done any. to have paid off those bills because my highest value was safety and taking care of my family. And so I spent 150 days a year on the road and it was not sexy shit. I'm talking like the bouncy regional coach flight landing at an airport at 11 o'clock at night, calling the cab, getting to the Marriott courtyard, like arriving at 1230, taking my one out it out and putting it in the shower and steaming it because I wanted to have a carry-on because I couldn't afford to miss a flight. So I always had to have a carry-on. So I wore the same

thing all the time. And I would steam it in the shower in these hotels. And then I would go down to the end of the hallway and I'd be at a regional conference for realtors, you know, like doing the thing. And then I'd take a cab to the airport and I'd jump on another plane. I did this year after year after year. That's how we paid off the loans on our house. And it's how we got our savings back. And again, I was not the kind of person who was like, okay, now we got the money, order the more expensive bottle of wine. I'm like, no, I get a dollar in. I know what it's like. 50 cents in the bank. Like we are not leveling up. We have got to restore order. And one of the interesting things that I realized is that it wasn't being on stage that lit me up. Because if

you want to be like what you do in your profession, being good at it is the price of entry. You have no fucking business doing anything like being on stage or doing what you do. If you're not good, don't waste people's time. What makes you exceptional at something is all the little things that actually do matter. All the things that you're not getting paid for. And that has to do with how people feel when they work with you. It has to do with how you show up. Do you manage your energy? For me, the bar was not whether or not I got a standing ovation. The bar was whether or not when I got off stage, the guys and gals that were run in production were like, that was fucking great. Thank you. I'm going to take that video and send that to my father-in-law because he needs

to he needs that stuff like his daughter's struggling with anxiety i became so like energized by the conversations backstage by bumping into people in the grocery store because as things started to spread and i was super huge shout out to gary v one of these days we will get our schedules aligned and actually fucking meet because i'm like the female version of gary v gby gary b's a fascinating i literally watched him and was like oh my god why am i not filming all of the interactions with the people coming up to me. You know, the woman who sat us at our table and was like, thank you. That 5, 4, 3, 2,1 thing helped my kid with anxiety. Thank you. Thank you for putting out these videos. I'm like, let's film this because that's going to help somebody.

And so that is what ignited my passion for creating content that is free. I mean, I don't sell anything it's a dumb business model but I literally like what do I have a book like I don't have a course to get like I'm not that's not my model like I am so excited your podcast is free it's free and by the way it's fucking phenomenal thank you it's fucking phenomenal you my wife my wife as we were watching a video my wife was putting out certain episodes and she references it all the time well what's interesting is I have a very different philosophy about podcasting because the whole intention is to create something so that one human being who has no time. So I'm talking an EMT, a nurse, a firefighter, a grandma that's watching, you know, the grandkids,

as mom and dad are working, somewhere halfway around the world that don't have the education system that, you know, you might have in your town, that somebody who has no time, made time to spend it with me. Ooh, I have a very good friend. I have a very good friend who said that same thing one time on a podcast. And I remember him saying that. And it was and it was like when you went, oh, wow, maybe I should, maybe I should work a little harder at this. Well, you know, yes or no. It depends. Like for me, I am on a mission to really help people see. the possibilities of their lives and the relationships. And for me, I'm so grateful that all this happened so late in life,

because when you have an experience where you almost blow up everything that matters to you, you do not forget what matters. And I have become more successful than I ever even imagined possible. What more do you need? Like if I can save anybody, the headaches, the heartaches that I've caused myself, that's why I do what I do. And we obsess over it because, you know, if you're going to give me your time, I want to make sure that if you actually make the time to listen,

because think about podcasting, it is almost the only medium out there these days that you can't casually bump into. There is a conscious moment where a human being hits play. They chose it. And so I start with that premise. and then I reverse engineer everything. For example, we don't number our episodes

because I don't want you to be forwarded an episode by somebody and they go, there's 353 episodes, uh-oh. We have no insider conversations because here's the other really amazing statistic that I love about our show. So if you look at, you know, globally, anywhere depending upon whether it's a, you know,

kind of time of year that people are listening to self, it's not even a show about self-improvement, life. January, September. We'll have anywhere between 9 and 11 million people listen to the show every week, around the world. But here's the amazing part. 50% of them have never listened to a single episode. Because people have not only listened, they've taken the time to share it with somebody because they think this episode could be the surrogate for the conversation I want to have with you

or this doctor or this expert or your story is exactly what my brother needs to hear. And so knowing that the it's an intergenerational universal thing like that is incredible um Mel I could I could sit and talk to you all day long well I want you to come to Boston I'm inviting me now everyone's telling me that we need to wrap and I'm sure it's your people because my bladder is so full right now and I did not wear it depends so I can't just have you ever done that on a cross-country road trip like peed into a kid's diaper no I peat in my pants, though. I bet there are a lot of women listening that know what I'm talking about.

You are very special, and I'm so lucky to have met you. And I'm so lucky that you put out as much content as you do just to help people. And everyone should go get both of her books. Nah. You just learned about it here. You don't have to buy the book for your family. Buy the book for your family, like my wife did for me. And then she bought the audiobook.

and said, I feel like you didn't read it. I want you to listen to the audiobook. And she's like, by the way, this is something we can listen to. You can play it when you sleep. Because I listen to the podcast, we'll go to bed to. And I woke up to you crying and your thank yous. And you were thanking your daughter, who was very pivotal on this. She wrote it with me.

Yeah. That's how I know it works because we, you have somebody in your life that you have a lot of friction with. And my oldest daughter, Sawyer, God, we wanted to be close. But there's just this like, what's the, mismatch here. Yeah. And it's too long of the story to say how she came to write this with me because the one thing she knew she wanted in life was to never work with me.

And then... That's both of my daughters. Yeah. Well, you know, I actually think that's a cool thing for now because it means they want to make it on their own, which is a great thing. So good job, you guys, mom and dad. But they come around. And so she found herself in a situation where she needed money and I needed some

research health, and she's like an Excel spreadsheet on legs, and I'm like mice in a cardboard box that you tip over. And so we sat down and sort of working on this just as a research project, and once we started, we were in. We fought all day long. Once a day I'd be, she'd be like, watch your tone. You know what? You watch your tone. And then I would go out of there, and then we'd be in separate courts. Let her, let her, let her, let her, fuck the bitch, let her, let her. And they're like, all right. Let me be the bigger one. go heal my relationship and then you come back together and the process of writing it together we used it all day long with each other and it taught us how to actually stop judging

and being so pissed off at each other and create this space where we could allow one another the grace to have emotions to be disappointed to have a bad day and not take it personally. And not feel like you need to fix it. Just let them. Just let them. And by the way, if you and Chris were in L.A., I have to take you to dinner.

I would love. Oh, we have to go out. I would love. Steak, bourbon. Let's go. No, we're going. No, absolutely. I'll fly, Leon and I'll fly to Vermont.

Come, oh my God, yes. You are the best. You're the best. Ladies and gentlemen, Mel Robbins. Oh, I love you. I love you, and I love you, Leanne. I feel like I have a sister. You do.

I do, I do, but not like I do. You do. You do. Bert and Tom, Tom and Bert. One goes to top us while the other wears a shirt. Tom tells stories and Bert's the machine. There's not a chance in hell that they'll keep the clean. Here's what we call. Two bears one cave.