20/20 - After Show: Blood on the Door

Episode Date: May 12, 2025

Deborah Roberts talks with producer Blue Browning about what drew him to a story about a mother’s quest for justice for her murdered daughter, and how he was able to find footage of a young woman whose life was cut short before smart phones made video ubiquitous. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hi there, everybody. It's Deborah Roberts and welcome to 2020 The After Show. Today, we're going to talk a little bit more about the mom who became a warrior to find her daughter's killer. I reported on this story on Friday night's edition of 2020, Joan Berry, whose daughter, Jonna, was stabbed to death when she was a 21-year-old student at UT, the University of Tennessee. There was no suspect and no arrest for years, and Joan just became consumed by this whole thought of

who could do something like this so vicious to her daughter and what laws needed to change to make it a little easier to solve these kinds of crimes. So today we're going to dig into it and joining me is my colleague, my friend, Blue Browning. Hey Blue. Hey, it's so great to be with you, Deborah. Oh, good to be with you. And you really are a partner in crime

when we come to these stories, because you and I have worked on a lot together. This story was actually somewhere you lived. Yeah, yeah, exactly. University of Tennessee, I didn't go to school there, but I worked in Knoxville, and I was so familiar with that area. But how did you wind up thinking about this story

and thinking it would work for 2020? Well, it definitely was Joan and how passionate she was. I saw an interview that she did, and I saw the anguish in her voice, but also I was so inspired listening to her. This mother had no answers for nearly three years. She basically went on a crusade, and it led her to wanting to change the laws in Tennessee.

And she was successful, but she still did not have an answer as to what happened to her daughter, who killed her daughter. But finally, as we saw in the show, there was an answer. There was an answer, but it took a very long time. And Blue, you know, this is almost like the two of us when we drive along, when you and I are off covering these stories and we're in the car and you and I get to talk about not only the background, but what your thoughts were, my thoughts. So we're kind of like in the car all over again, the two of us. And I remember you got us on one of the apps and got us to turn right back around.

We turned off the wrong road. And I just found ways and we found our way back on. But when I came to you to meet up with you at Joan's home in Tennessee, as I said, I had worked in Knoxville before. And so I felt a connection in a way to the community, and even though I didn't know her story, to her. And I remember stepping into her doorway and meeting her and her husband, and it was just really striking to me to get to know her. Just this lovely woman who, you know, was carrying her heartache still in her hand, but also her daughter's presence throughout the house.

I mean, mementos everywhere, even though it had been 20 years. So let's take a listen from the show and we'll talk more about that. I see memories of Jonna everywhere in the house, right? Yes, it's a portrait of Jonna. That was actually done after she was murdered. These are Johnna's little baby shoes.

They rest here? That's where they stay here all the time. This is Johnna's room. We call it Johnna's room. And I still have her wedding gown. You still have it? I still have her wedding gown after 20 years. This is it. That's beautiful. This is the dress.

All the beading. Look at the train. She looked beautiful in it. 20 years old. That was such a touching moment to me. And I have to tell you, Blue, when you had described Joan and you said she had all these mementos in the house

and she had John as room, I thought it was kind of almost just her tribute to her. She can't forget her only daughter, you know? Exactly. This was a shrine to her daughter. And I think there was a moment that you asked her a question that really stood with me, that this family, they had been planning that dream wedding.

You saw the wedding dress? Months, it was only just months away. Right, a dream wedding, and then they had to make that switch, as you called it, to planning a funeral. And how do you get to that point? So that really stood with me, and I think you probably were deeply moved by this as well, but the nails, the story of the nails. Oh yeah, she did her daughter's nails before she was in the coffin

because she did that kind of thing. But it was like a last little moment that she could give something to her daughter. A last little sort of gift, I guess, in a way to daughter to clean her hands and to do her nails. Oh my God, it broke my heart. And this woman, on the one hand,

yes, she's heartbroken, but she's so strong too. And you know, one of the things, Blue, that people don't necessarily always understand is when we're doing these stories, and this one goes back 20 years, this is before cell phones were just ubiquitous and everybody's taking pictures and you can find them on their social media.

That didn't happen with Jonna because that didn't exist at the time. So you really had to dig to try to find not only the photos, but just anything that would help bring her to life for us, but also respecting her mom's heartbreak while you're doing it. How do you do that? It was a quest that we went on as we do in all these stories. We're going to bring the victims to life. And I looked online, I didn't see any videos of Jonna anywhere.

So I asked her mom, do you have any home videos? But unfortunately, this was a time period where we didn't have smartphones. And I could relate because Jonna, she would be the same age today that I am today. And so I remember myself in that timeframe when the murder happened, didn't have smartphones. I asked her, is there anybody that we could reach out to that would have some home videos? You came to Joan with this question. Yes.

And she gave me a list of friends' names. One was an ex-boyfriend's name. And so I reached out to him and he said, I may have some VHS tapes. I have to look. It took weeks, months before we got it, but I kept pressing him. He ultimately found some VHS tapes that he had to send to me through his smartphone. He actually recorded the VHS tapes in real time on his phone to me. And so in order to get these, he wanted to make sure that Joan was okay with that.

So he showed it to Joan. He did a FaceTime video and showed her the actual video as it was playing out. And I think in a way this story also brought back more memories for Joan. She's getting to see her daughter in these videos that maybe she would never, never see. So in a way I do feel like I'm helping bring, bring back more memories of, of Jonna to her friends and family that, that had never seen these videos. So we unearthed new videos. Yeah, yeah. And something may be painful, but also maybe comforting to her as well.

You've done a lot of this digging and everything, and that's the only way we can paint a picture. And I think this meant a lot for the friends. The friend who was in this video, Lacey Pope, who we interviewed, she had never seen this video. 20 years. So you can imagine the emotion when she saw it, when we interviewed her for the first time seeing this,

it really was touching. Well, also what was touching too, is that even though this happened a long time ago, Joan is still a crusader. And DNA was a big part of this story because when the police were investigating, they had unknown DNA. So we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about

how Joan helped change laws surrounding one of our most powerful crime-solving tools, which is DNA. Why do fintechs like Float choose Visa? As a more trusted, more secure payments network, Visa provides scale, expertise, and innovative payment solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash fintech. I am back with Blue Browning, one of our producers here at 2020 who worked with me on this most recent story.

Blue, we got into the advocacy that Joan Berry has done around DNA after being so frustrated with the slow progress in the investigation of her daughter, Johnna's murder. And of course, in the show, we touched on that. But, I mean, she has done so much and continues even still to, and people know her, they know her name because she got Involved in state government. I mean she really has become a crusader. Oh, she has I think for her more than anything It was not knowing what happened to her daughter finding the killer and as a result of that she helped change laws and Therefore she has said that this is now her daughter's name is gonna live on

as a legacy helping these other cases of other unsolved cases, cold cases. So the DNA laws have changed in Tennessee because of the very work that she she's been working on. Well she was so surprised because one of the things she discovered and if you saw Friday show you saw she, you know, at that time in Tennessee and a number of other states, when somebody is arrested, they didn't necessarily collect the DNA, only if they were convicted. And so she got that changed so that that way

they would have this pool to be able to draw from, because that's why it took so long to find her killer, Jonah's killer. Exactly. And she said that you would not know about these laws unless you go through what she had gone through, what these families are going through, where they have a victim, a homicide victim. We did find out that nowadays there are 34 states where they take DNA upon arrest, upon a felony arrest, and the federal government. Not necessarily as a result of Joan,

or this law, but you know, I just, in the back of my head, as I was going through this story, I thought that was interesting. Yeah, and maybe she didn't necessarily lead to those changes, but things started to roll and her influence in Tennessee and the knowledge of it probably did have ultimately some impact someplace.

And DNA today, as we know know it's changed a bunch of crimes, it changed the whole game. So this was all new to her and she was learning. This was not something that she had studied and planned for. It was something that life presented to her and she took it on. She's a warrior. She really is and I mean this is a woman who was sort of in the hairdressing field and the beauty field and all of that. This wasn't her natural inclination, but because of her daughter's death. And we've seen that so many times in these stories, a parent or a relative has to step up and become an advocate.

Well, I drove with Joan to go visit the TBI, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, to see the DNA lab. And it's named for Jonna. And here's what's interesting. Jennifer Millsaps who runs that lab was there at that time, 20 years later. You informed me of that in the car when we were driving and why that was so significant.

She actually made the match that led to Joan's daughter's killer. She was there at that moment. So I thought that was a huge pivotal moment. She's still there working at the lab and she's seen it change from the days of when Jonna was murdered to where it is today and how much progress has been made.

The DNA lab, it used to be backlogged. It would take months, sometimes, you know, weeks to get results from DNA tests. It's not like we think of the law and order where you solve a case. Yeah, it's like quickly, yeah. This took time. And then, so today they have about 17 people

that work at the TBI lab, but at the time of the murder it was only about two. So you can see the progress that has been made. So now they're a lot more efficient, high powered, solving cases a lot faster. Yeah, they really have seen a lot of change. And Jennifer was so interesting because she was very matter of fact,

she's a lab kind of person, but she said that she was really shaken. I mean, she remembered feeling that she wanted to help solve this murder of this young girl. Everybody in the community was talking about this. And so it really impacted her. What about law enforcement? Because you began making calls on this story,

you're digging into what was happening at the time. Of course, you got these detectives to talk to us, but what did you hear from them about the case? They all were impacted by this case. The whole Knoxville, Tennessee, they all were impacted by this case. Everybody from the Knox County Sheriff's Office, they said this is one of those case that sits with them.

It was such a mystery and also so heartbreaking for them. I think one of the officers really, the gravity of the situation hit me, her name's Diana Kidd, one of the patrol officers. She had said that she came into the scene and noticed that Johnna's hair when she got there was red. She thought she was a redhead. Oh my gosh. There was so much blood and she only later learned that she was as blonde as her later. So I think these things stuck with the officers who worked on this case.

And of course the detectives have such great respect for Joan, they wanted to participate in these interviews that we did. Yeah, I remember when she talked to me about that and she said she was so shaken up by the whole thing, even though she had to be strong on the job, but she was pretty new to the job. She went home and she had her child and she went to go spend the night with her mom because she was just so shaken up.

Because this community, and a lot of times when we do these stories, oftentimes they're in smaller communities and they don't see these kinds of crimes. So you and I talked to people who haven't encountered these kinds of things before. Exactly. Well, we know that when they are working on these cases, whether they're advocates or, you know, law enforcement, it can take a toll. So we're going to talk more about that, what we learned when we come back. What's better than a well-marbled ribeye sizzling on the barbecue?

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Free access ends May 13th. Terms apply. We are back. Blue and I are talking about the case of John Avery, We are back. Blue and I are talking about the case of Johnna Berry, the 21-year-old student who was murdered all these years ago, and her mom has become an advocate. But Blue, one of the things we also discovered, and I certainly have talked to her mom about, is that she had two sons.

Also, in addition to Johnna, Johnna had two brothers, and they had to actually identify their sister's body after the murder because the mom lived in Georgia at Johnna, Johnna had two brothers, and they had to actually identify their sister's body after the murder because the mom lived in Georgia at the time, and they had to go and deal with this, and it was just awful. In fact, they didn't want to do an interview with me. It's been so difficult. And that's one of the things I'm proud of at 20-20 when we do these stories. It's not just about the crime, it's about the human element the families how they were impacted

And you reached out to to these guys and they still carry this pain, right? Well, I asked Joan if the brothers would be willing because I think that was so important that moment when they go to the hospital So I did ask Joan but she had declined on their behalves because it's such an emotional toll on them and respectfully We we honored that but you just it's another example of how this is so difficult sometimes being the surviving siblings. Absolutely. Well, as I said, it can take a toll on these families. And one of the things we like to do on this podcast is we like to give you information and little clips

that you didn't hear, we didn't share in the show. So let's hear a clip of our interview with Joan, something that didn't make it into our 2020 program but it really stuck with us. John was on my mind from the time I was opened until I fell asleep at night and I remember that that's just all I thought about or done. I didn't realize how I had neglected my other children with this. They never complained about it. They never did.

But I was talking with Tim, my oldest son, one day, and he said, well, Mom, don't forget you have Kelly and I. So I thought, wow, that is really an eye-opener, because I have essentially just, John has been the only, John's murder was the only thing on my mind, and I have neglected them. And that's not fair to them.

It's not, you know, it's not their fault. It wasn't their fault that Johnna was murdered, just like it was, you know, none of our faults. It made me realize that I need to, I need to give them support too and I need to be the mother that they're used to and have time for them. Such a vulnerable moment and clearly she had this realization and made some adjustments in her life, right? Oh, yes. She had told us, you know, even off camera about the grandchildren in her lives. They call her Nana and how close they've become and how her grandchildren in the beginning, they were very cautious and worried that they would make Joan cry by saying Johnna's name. But Joan told us, you know, Johnna's not dead in her heart. Joan says she likes talking about John and making sure she's not forgotten.

And obviously we saw that in the home. We saw that in the DNA lab that John is name is is every it's present today. Yeah. Yeah. And her her her husband, John, his father, wears a picture of her on his shirts every day, every day. And he said he's done that since the very beginning. He even told us people were wondering who is this. He's asked that question. And he says, this is my daughter,

proudly says this is my daughter. Yeah, yeah, it's a story. I mean, I have a friend who I had met when I was in Knoxville years ago, who I caught up with for coffee and she knows this story I mean people in that community Blue you do so many of these stories and and you and I together have done a lot of them But some kind of stick with you and haunt you a little bit. How about this one for you? Of course, this one will will be there for me. I mean, I've so touched by Joan everybody that met Joan was touched

I think there was one moment when you were interviewing her and I heard a noise and I didn't know what it was and it was actually sniffles from one of the camera guys so touched by Joan and her words. She just has that way where when you talk, you lean in a little bit more. She has a vulnerability to her and I think we all are touched by her and she even is speaking to other victims' families. She's helping other victims' families. She's helping, she even said she recently spoke to some juvenile parolees, about 90 parolees, sharing John's story in hopes

that they will turn their life around. And think about the human element of who they might've affected. Well, Blue, you do such a great job on these stories. And before we go, I'm just sort of curious, what motivates you? Because you find a lot of these stories, you pitch this particular one. I mean, what are you looking for when you're digging around for these stories? I think it is that human connection, that hearing somebody who's experienced something

that we don't experience every day. Joan, she was put in such a horrible situation and she took that, you know, I think you even said some people would ball up and just couldn't go on with life, but she is such an inspiration the way that she rose above like a phoenix and she took on, took on this challenge and she ultimately was looking for her daughter's killer. Billboards were used, she paid her own money for billboards, she helped change the laws, and they ultimately found that killer. So I think these are stories that stick with a lot of people.

Yeah, yeah, but when you talk about that part of it, it's more than just the crime, it's about what happens as a result. The human spirit. The human spirit. And you were so good at doing that, Blue. Maybe it's because you're a Southerner, just like I am. Yes. Maybe that makes us uniquely qualified to be able to go in and help people sort of process a lot of this. Well, Blue, it was such an important story about what a mom's love can do and you do

such a great job. Thank you for covering this and the human heart that you put behind your coverage of this case. It just, I know it means a lot to the family as well. It's always a pleasure to work with you. Blue Browning is a producer with 2020. So it's always great. Blue, thanks so much for swinging by. Well, remember to tune in Friday nights at 9 Eastern for all new episodes of 2020. And you can still catch a bad romance on Tuesday nights at nine for a few more weeks.

The 2020 After Show is produced by Amira Williams and Sasha Aslanian with Joseph Rhee, Brian Mazursky, and Alex Berenfeld of 2020. Themed music by Evan Viola, Janis Johnston is the executive producer of 2020, Josh Cohen is the director of podcasting at ABC Audio, Laura Mayer is the executive producer. Fx presents, welcome to Wrexham. For the last four years, it's been this rollercoaster of magic.

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