20/20 - Broken Vows (Rebroadcast)

Episode Date: August 8, 2026

Pamela Smart, who was sentence to life in prison without parole for her involvement in the 1990 murder of her husband, talks about the case. (OAD 8/16/24) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

At IKEA, we make things just for college life. Come on, come on! Like our Calax desk in white, black, or stained oak for just $75. Yeah, let's go! It's got built-in cable management to help keep your game console cords organized. And a spacious work surface for your laptops, monitors, and textbooks. Whoa! Yeah! If only you were this excited about studying.

Oh, man! Shop back to school at IKEA. My name is Pamela Smart. I have been portrayed as black widow, ice princess, a killer, and none of those things could be further from the truth. And so just to be clear, did you mastermind the murder against your husband? No, I did not. That was then.

This is now, and this is new, just this summer. I found myself responsible for something I desperately didn't want to be responsible. responsible for. This story had it all. A beautiful young woman, a seductress of a young teenage boy. And perhaps most importantly, murder. Pam, did you have anything to do with your husband's murder? People were asking why this happened and why Pam Smart could lure a young man into killing for her.

I never would have done it if Pam didn't tell me to. She was the first girl I ever loved. I pulled the trigger. God forgive me. Your trial defined media frenzy. This was the first trial to be broadcast live from start to finish, before OJ, before the Menendez brothers. It was reality TV before there was reality TV. So when will it happen?

It gets made into a movie to die for, which starred Joaquin Phoenix and Nicole Hidman. Did you get the gun? A lot of people felt like they knew everything about me because they saw the movie. The boys who actually committed the murder are already free. How is it fair that someone who pulled the trigger is home and somebody else remains in prison? What do you think is your best hope for getting out? So will she do it now after everything else has failed? For me, that was really hard.

We're going to sit here if that's okay. I know this is not your first rodeo. No, it's not. It was such a notorious crime that I was really intrigued when she agreed to a jailhouse interview. She had been maintaining her innocence for certain. three decades. We're speeding? We all wondered what it would be like to meet this woman,

a woman that a jury was convinced had masterminded her husband's murder. It's been, you know, almost three decades, and it hurts. You talked about all that you've lost, including the potential to be a mom. Yeah, and that makes me sad because I love children. I wanted to be a mother, and now, you know, I've

lost all my years. It seems like the whole world's passing by, and You know, I'm still here. Pamela was really the golden girl of true crime in the 90s. It was a story we had never really heard before. In the 90s, she was right up there with Tanya and Amy Fisher. This was the era of the bad girl, for sure.

And right around this time is when you've got Madonna doing erotica, doing the sex book, and the idea that women are not the victims of sexual relations. but they can put notches in the bedpost same as men can. The reasons why the crime had taken place, the motivations, the passions that resulted in what happened seemed to fascinate people. It all starts in Miami, Florida. My name is Diane Diamond. I am a veteran journalist reporter, and I've been covering the Pamela Smart case since the mid-90s.

Pamela is one of three children. three children. She has a sister and a brother. Her mother, a homemaker, who took homemaking very seriously. She was always there and when we had a problem, we didn't have to wait until she came home from work because she was, she was home. My husband was a pilot. Pam loved being with dad. She's very close to him. She was very happy. She was a sweet child. She had a lot of friends. kind of happy go lucky. I think so, yes.

Then her family moved to New Hampshire. This is the American dream. Low crime rate, beautiful parks, greenery, people are friendly. Then came time for college. Pam Smart decides to return to Florida, and she enrolls at FSU. When I went to college, I worked three jobs, 52 hours a week, and graduated from college a year

Emily Smart was an overachiever. She received a degree in communication arts and her goal was to be a television news reporter. My aspiration was to be a journalist and to be in the media. She wanted to be another Barbara Walters. Didn't we all? Don't touch that dial. You're listening to WBFS Tallahassee 89.7 FM. She was a DJ on the college radio station and she hosted not one but two different radio shows. I did the rock show at night. She loved Van Halen.

She loved Motley Crew. Her moniker was the maiden of metal. I didn't go to college and go out, party. I worked all the time. So you skipped adolescence? I kind of skipped relationships. I had no boyfriend in college until I met my husband, and that was it.

In 1994, everybody wanted to hear from Pamela Smart. Okay? She gave her first interview to my colleague Diane Sawyer. Well, no beaters are going to go off. And they're rolling. How did you meet Greg Smart? I met Greg when I came home for Christmas during a break one year. Originally, I wasn't attracted to him, but I then became attracted to him.

What about him? He was very outgoing and always smiling. He seemed fun to be around. He was a rocker, the long hair, the attitude. She loved him. She said, you know, Mom, he's the one. We liked him too. Greg of Pam Smart bonded over Van Halen songs like,

You Really Got Me. Girl, you really got me now. Hot for teacher. Greg seemed very glamorous to her. He had this magnificent head of hair. That's the guy Pam told me she fell in love with. So what does he do? He leaves town.

He leaves town and moves to Florida to be with Pan. There's something very innocent and very normal and very sweet about it. They fell in love. They dated for a while. He came down to Florida to be with her. He wasn't interested in going to college. He was just interested in being with Pan. It's a relationship that heats up lightning fast, but fizzles out almost as quickly.

You would never know that in less than one year, Greg Smart would be murdered. This is Great Smart. Greg and Pam got married on May 7th, 1989. We gave him a very beautiful one. We look forward to having grandchildren. Pam Smart was decked out like Princess Diana. The big, poofy, white wedding dress. He was handsome in a steel gray tuxedo.

When you look at the photographs and the video of that wedding. I don't know that I've seen a happier couple. I was only 21 years old when I got married. I was very much in love with my husband. I thought that Greg and I would have a fulfilling future, that we would have a family and children. Do you still feel married to your husband?

I do, and you know, it's weird that you would ask me that because I was just filling out an application for something for in here yesterday, and it says, are you married? And I put yes. you know, and date of marriage. Because I am still married, I'm widowed, but I'm still married. The couple moved back to New Hampshire.

They move into a very well-to-do neighborhood in a beautiful condominium. Derry, New Hampshire's nickname is the Space Town. It's named because it was the home of Alan Shepard, the astronaut. The poet Robert Frost comes from there. Something we were withholding made us weak. Pamela got a job with the public school system and she became the media liaison among about a dozen public schools.

She's introducing students into television. She was able to write press releases. She was able to create content. This job by no means was what her career ambition was, but it was a stepping stone. I had a very good job. I made a lot of money for myself. I was 22 years old. I had a 40-6 years old. something-year-old secretary. I had a job work. I had four weeks paid vacation, full medical, dental, all of that.

I was my own boss. I really made my own money. Greg sort of settled down a little bit. He cut off his long hair. He went into the respectable insurance business with his father. So years later, when Pam Smart's case is so infamous, there are TV movies being made about it. There's a scene in Murder in New Hampshire where Greg's haircut is made. made out to be the first sign of trouble. I remember exactly filming that scene on the doorstep when Greg comes home. Pam looks at him and hardly recognizes him.

He's shorned he's cut everything off. And instead of being pleased, she's absolutely horrified. I try. What happened to your hair? No. The barber's still sweeping it up even as we speak. He's gotten a haircut because he's gotten a job. Horrified.

She goes, you cut your hair. And he says, Pam, I may look like Donald Trump. Trump, but I still feel like John von Jovi. She may have dated a rocker, but she married an insurance agent. Real life sets in. He became an insurance salesman. She got a good job. Pretty soon it was a routine.

It seemed that this couple had everything going for them. Good jobs, a nice rented home, good furniture. They even had a little dog. So on the surface, it looks great. It's just not going to turn out that way. Greg was working a lot, and he would work at night, go to people's homes, pitch insurance policies, and Pam was left alone. When she first met her husband, he was kind of a rocker rebel, which is why she was drawn to him. And then after marriage segued into this very traditional role.

Her mother later told me that during this period, it seemed like Pam finally stopped focusing on just work. and became more social, but a little immaturely social. She started to hang around with the high school students when she went to work every day. Greg's working all the time, Pamela's hanging out with teenagers. This marriage is getting bumpy. They were very young, which probably helped their marriage to deteriorate. Clearly there was a dynamic that wasn't working.

In her first year of marriage, her husband had come home and talked to her about having an affair and I think it crushed her deeply. I was very much in love with my husband from the time he was my boyfriend through when he was my husband and he had an affair. And when that happened, I was devastated. I thought there was something wrong with me. I thought that I wasn't good enough.

So she was feeling like her husband had betrayed her. In that exclusive interview with Diane Sawyer, Pam Smart remembers the night her husband didn't come home from work. One night I went to bed and I was expecting him to come home. And when I woke the next morning, he wasn't there. He was out with a friend of his. And he had been drinking, so he decided to stay at his house. And it turns out that that wasn't what happened.

What did happen? He had met someone and he had stayed with her the night. Was he sorry? Was it a fight? What happened? I was very angry and I was very hurt. Did it change the marriage? Well, I believe it made me less trustworthy. It had an effect on my self-esteem. I had thought originally that it was just, you know, he and I.

And now I realized that someone could come between that. And I was scared of that. When he cheated on her, it obviously broke her heart and changed her, changed the marriage. That's the turning point in this story, his affair. Pam had no idea that a chance encounter was about to change her world forever. I fell in love with her. On May 1st, 1990, Pamela is at a school board meeting. She gets home about 10 o'clock.

She goes to the front door and she notices that the light is out. This is odd. And she opens the front door and in the vestibule is her husband. She had arrived at her home and began screaming that there was something like that. with her husband. She starts banging on doors. Somebody called 911. Hurry, hurry, hurry. My husband, my husband. Emergency in 4E, missed Somerhill condominium. There's someone passed out. I don't know. A girl is hysterical in here. She just ran over. Her husband is passed out. I was working as an investigative reporter in New Hampshire, and the scanner radio goes off, and we understand that a young man has

been murdered inside his condominium. The telephone calls that came to the Derry Police Department all came from neighbors who heard. screaming and yelling. You know why he's passed up? Why he's tapped out? No, we don't know. Pamela is outside. She's sobbing.

She wants to know what's going on. Is there a burglar in the house? Is Greg okay? Is he breathing? What's happening? Pam Smart found his body. He was in the entranceway to his condominium. He was sprawled out on the ground.

The first thing that we noticed was the body of the victim, Gregory Smart. There appeared to be a blue towel wrap around his head. He's got a bullet wound in the back of his head. This looks like a mob hit. This is an execution. Right away, police had no idea who could be responsible. In most cases, pretty quickly, the murders make sense. Somebody's involved in gangs or drugs, or there's a history of domestic dispute in their lives.

In this case, here's this young man at the beginning of his life and career in insurance. He's not married a year yet to a lovely young woman, and he's dead. The police were groping for leads at the time. He had apparently expired. They determined almost immediately. Pam called the house, and she was hysterical, and she screamed into the phone. Mom, come quick. Great's did.

And inside, I was trembling, and I thought, well, maybe there's been an accident. People in that house that night told me that she was arrest. She was a wreck. She was an inconsolable mess. She did seem extremely shaken at the time, extremely emotionally distraught. She was soaking wet, her clothing from sobbing. We were all a mess, saying how, why, is it true? In that first interview with Diane Sawyer, Pam talks about the tragic night.

What happened to Greg is the most horrible thing I've ever gone through in my life. I'm still haunted every day by memories of what must have happened to him inside our house before he was killed. And although I wasn't there, I feel that because of that, I'll never know how Greg was feeling at the time. I keep thinking of how afraid he must have been and how senseless this whole tragedy was. a lot of times I still can't even believe that he's gone. Greg Smart still has on the clothes from work. It looks like Greg must have walked into the middle of a botched, screwed up burglary. We noticed that several things were moved.

The stereo system had been ransacked. CDs were laying on the floor. Pillowcases had been ripped open. The stuffing had been removed. We found that the upstairs as well had been ransacked. The dresses had been gone through completely. However, police find that Greg still has his wallet. He still has a gold wedding band on his hand.

Pamela reported nothing much was missing except a few little pieces of her jewelry. This is not a usual burglary. Usually burglars in this region don't carry firearms or guns. They're not playing on any kind of confrontation at all. There was no forced entry at the front door or the back door. No signs, no disturbances of someone breaking in. Something just doesn't seem right here. Kitchen chef's knife is stuck into the ground.

They found a marijuana cigarette, a reefer in his cars. They think, well, maybe there's drugs involved. Dead end. The next lead is that Greg Bight have had a gambling problem. They search phone records and they find that he had been calling a gambling service. They go to Atlantic City. Maybe he owed somebody money. Again, dead end.

nothing there. So every single lead that we got, all of them let the dead ends. At that point, they really are searching and asking the public's help because they frankly don't have a break and they need one. A dead body killed execution style. That is a stunner for Derry, New Hampshire. And then a few days after Greg Smart's murder, something strange happens at his wake, a group of unidentified teenage boys show up.

And everyone's thinking, who are those guys? And what's their connection to Greg? So after weeks of investigating by the police, and nothing is happening, nothing is popping, no new information, suddenly out of the blue. A man walks into the police station with a 38 caliber revolver. And he says, this is my gun,

and I think it was used in the Gregory Smart murder case. Right now, for a limited time, everyone's part of the Buick team, even you. Buick's employee pricing for you event is on now. Get a purchase credit of up to $3,168 on a 2026 Buick Envision. Surround yourself with signature Buick refinement from an available massaging driver's seat to an expansive panoramic moonroof and a stunning ultra-wide 30-inch diagonal screen. Don't miss Buick's Employee Pricing for You event.

Visit buick.ca for more details. This show is supported by Chime. Let's be honest, no one likes paying bank fees. a long time they felt inevitable because every bank charged them. But now there are other options. Now there's CHIME. Chime is changing the way people bank by eliminating fees. That's right, no monthly fees, no minimum balance fees, and no overdraft fees. Instead of fees, you get rewards. You get 5% cash back on CHIMCard in a category of your choice like gas or groceries, all the while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check.

You can also grow your money faster at a savings rate that's nine times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, spot me let you overdraft up to $200 fee-free. Join the millions who are already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking. Head to chime.com slash 20, spelled out T-W-E-N-T-Y. Sign up now, it only takes a few minutes. That's chime.com slash 20. Chime is a fintech not a bank, banking services and chime card provided by Chimes Bank partners. Qualifying direct deposits required, terms and limits apply.

Go to chime.com slash disclosures for details. Nightmare Next Door, a podcast from ID. tells the real stories of murders that sent shockwaves through small town America. On every episode, investigators, witnesses, and family members close to the victims discuss the disturbing details of each case and exactly what happened. Peel back the peaceful facade of small towns and find out what secrets your neighbor is hiding. Listen to Nightmare Next Door, wherever you get your podcasts. Whenever news breaks, we are here in Israel, a nation at war.

In Rolling Fork, this tornado tore through this town. From Lewiston, Maine. The scene of a horrific mass shooting. on the scene of that deadly mission strike. ABC News Live everywhere. In Iceland, let's go. On the 2024 campaign trail. Here at 10 Downing Street.

Wherever the story is, we're going to take you there. You're streaming. ABC News Live. ABC News Live. You're streaming. ABC News Live. ABC News Live. Streaming free everywhere. Part of me is missing, and that's Greg. It's gone forever.

And you'll never be back. I remember it was a rather chilly day. It's always kind of very cool. New England, but this day seemed colder. You have all these young people and they're all crying. I didn't want to be covering this funeral. I didn't want to be anywhere near it. Throughout the day I kept seeing he had this big, vibrant, beautiful smile.

We can't sleep. I don't want to eat. I don't feel there's much left in my life. Pamela Smart is struggling. It seemed to me to even make it down the walkway. She was crying so hard. It was a horrifically emotional moment. There is footage of me coming out of the funeral crying so bad that my father's holding me on one side and my sister's holding me on the other and I did lose my husband that I did marry and he did love me and I loved him.

There's no answers and the police can't give them any answers and that made their grieving that much more difficult. He didn't deserve this. All I want is the people who did. did this, sent to jail forever. All of these people are just shredded, just racked with emotion over this horrendous thing. Never forget this, it's just a few days after Greg's murder. And my news director goes, I guess you'll be interviewing Pamela Smart today, right? We'll have a story with you and her.

And I'm like, yeah, that's going to happen. He's just joking with me. And honest to God, like three minutes later, over the loudspeaker, I hear Bill Spencer, you have a phone call, it's Pamela Smart. Pam gave her first media interview to a local television reporter six days after Greg was murdered. She said she wanted to talk to me about the kind of guy that Greg was. She wanted people to know the type of person he really was. At that time, she appears perfectly together.

She has on a prim little outfit, her makeup is perfect. I feel like in a whole condominium complex like ours, Somebody must have seen or heard something. Everybody's saying they didn't hear or see anything. And I keep thinking that I'll see him, you know, walk in. But every day and every second that passes, I realize that that won't happen. And yesterday I went out to the cemetery,

and that's kind of, you know, when it really hit me, that he won't ever come back. She does appear introspective. She does appear to miss her husband. You know, it's awful to just think about what happened in there. You know, the only comfort I have is that, you know, it just seems to have been a situation where Greg didn't know what was happening. And he just never knew, you know, and it was really quick.

We usually don't like to bring animals, get dogs in your interview shot. But Pam invited Haley to come over. It's this little fuzzy dog. And we did the whole interview with Halen, sitting right there, next to us. She named her dog Halen because she was a Van Halen maniac. Sometimes I ask myself, I can't figure out where the strength is coming from, but it seems like it's coming from inside. Maybe, you know, maybe it's a part of Greg that's helping me go on with everything. The interview kind of comes and goes with no fuss.

No new witnesses coming forward. Until... The big break for police comes on June 10th, 1990. about six weeks after the murder. Out of the blue, a grown man walks into the police station. But it's not the Derry Police Station, it's the Seabrook Police Station. It's about 40 miles away, where inwalks this man. He's carrying a handgun in his hand, and he says, this is my gun, and I think it was used in the Gregory Smart murder case.

They immediately call the investigators in, and this would turn out to be the major break in the story. break in the story. And he proceeds to tell the investigators that he had this gun put away in his house, and when he went to retrieve it, it looked like it had been freshly cleaned, and he knew he had not cleaned it. So how did this happen? The man tells police that his son's friend, a teenager by the name of Ralph Welch, told him

that the gun may have been used to kill Greg Smart. Police immediately get the gun. They do a ballistics comparison. The two bullets match up. The test show that that gun is the weapon that killed Greg Smart. It is probably the most important physical piece of evidence they're going to find. This is big break for the police. That very same day, June 10th, 1990, the police haul in that teenager, Ralph Welch, for a videotaped interview.

Okay. It's June 10th. And it's June 10th, and it's 15, 24 hours by my watch. I'm Detective Barry Cherowitz, and with me is Ralph Welsh. So Ralph Welch tells Detective Barry Cherowitz about a secret conversation he had with the son of the man who turned in that 38 caliber revolver. So then he told me a story how it happened. Who else here? So police get Ralph Welch talking.

And remember, he's a teenager, you're talking to cops, and he spills it all. He told you the story about what, about how, what happened. He told me how they did it. How they did what? Kill Greg Smart. Ralph Welch tells police about learning of three teenage boys who went to Greg Smart's house that night

with the intent to murder him. These are the three boys that Welch names in that interview, Billy Flynn, Pete Randall, and Vance, aka J.R. Latamy. It's especially startling because they're just high school kids. Latomie supposedly waited in the getaway car. So they went there and they broke into the place and they set it up to make it look like a burgerly.

And I guess the guy who tried to run or something, and they grabbed him, they threw his dog in the cellar. He said he held the guy's head while Bill shot it. The juveniles that were involved in the murder, beginning with Bill. Billy Flynn. All of them had specific problems in their lives or with the police too. The Seabrook police, they were familiar with these, the kids involved already. So Peter was the one that shot him? No. Pete said he held his head.

Did he say how he held his head? No, he just said he held it and built a little trigger. But why? What was the alleged motive? Welch seemed to know that too. Did they tell you anything else about it? This was, being some insurance money or something. This is just what they said from Pam, like 500 or something. And do you say $500? Is that what Pam was paying them?

That's what they said she was going to pay. And you're talking about PM? Who's PM? The guys have wife. OK, PM Smart. Ralph Welsh is the first one who mentions Pam smart's name. Did Pam pay him anything else?

He just said something about insurance money or something. He mentioned like $500 a piece. This videotaped interview with Ralph Welch blows the lid off the case. As police begin to dig, a clue may lie in, of all places, an amateur orange juice commercial

that Pam helped some of the high school students produce. At the beginning of time, man has enjoyed the taste of pure and natural Florida orange juice. The police have finally got a direction in which to take this investigation. This was, begin some insurance money or something. And then pay, like, 500. This explosive videotaped interview gives police a clear motive and implicates Pamela Smart in her husband's murder. Yet it comes as no surprise to police who already think that Payne's

Pam has been acting bizarrely from the moment they started talking to her. We met with her in an interview room, and she began immediately to tell us when she opened up the door. She saw that this must have been a burglary because there was speakers off of stand. It seemed kind of strange that she had keyed in on speakers missing from a stand. It seemed at the time that her focus should have been on her husband who was laying there. Police noticed that Pam didn't seem to be very emotional when they finally got a chance to interview her just hours after her husband had been murdered.

You weren't emotive enough for people's taste. Yes. What do you make of all that? Well, I wasn't very emotional. I think I was in shock, you know. You were the Ice Princess. Right. And I think that people's perception is interesting

because, like, I was watching something where it was JFK's funeral, and... and Jackie Kennedy Onassis was standing there, and she never shed a tear. And everyone was like, she's so stoic. You know, nobody said she was an ice princess. There was no proof that Pamel Smart had anything to do with this, but her actions really did make a lot of people,

including investigators, step back and say, wait a minute, does she have something to do with this? My law enforcement friends told me that after I interviewed Pam Smart, that she became even more of a prominent suspect in their eyes because of what she said in that interview, and they said specifically, she talked about things that she couldn't have known about. It just seems to have been a situation where Greg didn't know what was happening. She knew critical factors about what that crime scene looked like.

How could she talk about what this apartment looked like when she wasn't allowed in there? And I expected that she would be breaking down, and yet that emotion never came. Sometimes I ask myself I can't figure out where the strength is coming from. But the weirdest part of the interview was we were talking about Greg, and she said something to the effect of, if you think about it, this couldn't have happened at a better time. You know, there's no better time in his life for this to happen. And I said, what?

This couldn't have happened at a better time because if you think about it, had we been married for 20 years, I would have loved him that much more. I couldn't wrap my mind around that. When the murder first happened, you brought the media into your home and gave interviews. Well, no, I talked to one person, Bill Spencer, and he was hounding every day calling us, saying that he was running with a story that Greg owed gambling debts in Atlantic City, and he owed money to the mafia.

And they were saying, are you going to give us a comment? Because if you're not going to give us a comment, we're running with. with his story. And it was like, wait a minute, my husband's not even buried. Like, what do you mean? You're running with the story. Because we went to Atlantic City a lot, but he didn't know anybody, any money, and he wasn't killed because of that. I was pressured, basically, to try to defend him. So I did. I wouldn't say it pressured Pamela Smart into doing that interview at all. That call came to me. I didn't make the call to her that morning. She called me. Pam has an answer for everything the police called suspicious.

So who do you believe? The police definitely don't believe Pam Smart. There's a whole lot of smoke, but no fire yet. They have the videotaped interview from a high school kid who said she offered $500 for murder. They find her interview peculiar, but none of this adds up to murder until they make a stunning connection. So these boys, it turns out, are students at the same school where Pam Smart works. Not only do these kids go to Winnicunton High School where Pamela Smart works. She's close to them because she's working on a school project with them.

Now there's a connection. There's a connection between the gun, the three boys, and Pamela Smart. Pam meets Billy Flynn through this project esteem that she is running at Winnicon at at high school where she talks to teenagers about their troubles and tries to help them with their issues. There's a gigantic dichotomy between Dairy, New Hampshire, where Pamela Smart lives, and Seabrook, where Billy Flynn and these boys lived. Seabrook is a gritty working class area.

And in comes Pamela Smart, and she must have seemed like a fairy princess. So Billy Flynn is 16 years old. He's attending Winnicun at high school. He plays guitar. He wants to be a rock musician. There's nothing imposing about this guy. He's a skinny guitar playing teenager. I met Bill who was kind of making me feel like I was the greatest thing on the earth.

He was charming. He was. And I guess at that point I was so low that I needed that boost. You were vulnerable. Yeah, I was. Pam learned about a contest for high school kids in which they made a commercial about orange juice. So she got the kids together and said, hey, you can win a trip to Disneyland

if you want to make this commercial. Pam already knows Billy because she's in this project self-esteem with him, and she asked him to be the cameraman. This put Pam and Billy in very close proximity. She directed it. He wrote the music for the commercial. We still need energy and vitality

to keep in shape and see the day, the Florida, Orange, you should, No way. I meet Pam Smart and she's beautiful, she's intelligent, you know, she's an adult, and she likes me. As the police begin to dig, they can't help but wonder about the strange hold that Pamela Smart has on these teenage boys, especially the long-haired kid, Billy Flint. The cops soon discovered that Pamela Smart has been having an ongoing illicit affair with her teenage student, Billy Flint. But another student from that very same high school is about to betray Pam with a secret recording.

Jailed for squalid murder. It seems like the whole world's passing by and, you know, I'm still here. They have a 22-year-old woman who's having an affair with a 16-year-old boy, And that boy is tied to the murder weapon. This young boy who was having an affair with her believes that she has told him that the only way we can be together is if you kill my husband. We'll act like I just used him,

went lurking through the school, looking for somebody to manipulate, and it was just really wasn't even like that. Decades of denials, but now, new just this summer, a last ditch effort to change the narrative. It really boils down to this. Pam Smart is asking for the opportunity, the chance to express remorse and to discuss

her transformation over 34 years from a 22-year-old to a thoughtful, accomplished, mature, 56-year-old woman. A lot of people felt like they knew everything about me because they saw the movie. Did you get the gun? No. I had to acknowledge for the first time, in my own mind and my own heart, how responsible I was because I had deflected blame all the time. It makes the headlines when three teams are arrested in the murder of Greg Smart, Billy Flynn, Vance Latime and Pete Randall.

The police have now identified the murder weapon and they trace it back to those three boys. This is what enabled them basically to get these arrest warrants. There is a fourth suspect. Raymond Fowler was in the getaway car. Fowler ended up being charged, but other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time, he seemingly did not have much to do with the murder itself. Remember, police had been told that these boys were mere pawns and that Pam's smart had put them all up to it. But what was the motive? Why would they kill Smart? I'm going to go straight to Pam's condominion and get her reaction.

I'm totally devastated by this. I can't comment. I was boggled by her reaction. Wait a minute. They've solved your husband's murder and you're distraught. I thought, oh my God, they had the wrong person. You thought Billy was innocent? I thought there was no way. These three teenagers are in custody, but they are not talking to the police.

Normally, you get three teens that are arrested for something this serious, one, or all of them are going to sing. They're going to tell exactly what happened because they're teenagers. And then, out of the blue, a break in the case. Police actually get an anonymous phone call. This is Detective Pellantier. A young man killed a couple weeks ago. All right. In his home.

What I have heard, the wife had planned it. She said the woman had planned it, and there was someone that knows all about this, and her name is Cecilia Pierce. Cecilia Pierce is a teenager who goes to Winnicutt at high school. She is the intern of Pamela Smart. They had worked together on that OJ video. Police interviewed Cecilia, and that recording appeared in a documentary for Discovery ID

called Pamela Smart an American murder mystery. What kind of a relationship do you have with Pam? The revelations she makes are stunning. And then they were having an affair. How did you find out about the affair? Pam told me that she was in the middle of Bill. And I didn't see anything in the text because I worked in home. Bill Flynn was a juvenile, just 16 years old.

Cecilia tells police that one night she, Billy Flynn, and Pam Smart are watching a movie. Nine and a half weeks. During the movie, Pam Smart and Billy Flynn go upstairs. Cecilia follows and actually walks in on the two having sex. This is a bombshell. Imagine what the police are thinking at this point. They have a 22-year-old woman who's having an affair with a 16-year-old boy, and that boy is tied to the murder weapon that was used to kill the woman's husband.

These are big pieces of a puzzle they're putting together here. they're putting together here. You were technically an adult and he was underage. Absolutely. That relationship seems predatory. It was totally wrong. It was actually very difficult because I had feelings for my husband. I loved him and I also had developed feelings for Bill.

And I knew that I couldn't continue like this. It wasn't going to work like this forever. It was only a short relationship. You've had several bombshells in this case, but another one is about to explode. Cecilia reveals that she has heard the whole story, the conversations between Billy Flynn and Pam, and that she has heard that Pam wanted to get rid of Greg. According to Cecilia Pierce, Pamela Smart planned the entire murder. She's the mastermind.

We're going to conduct an audio surveillance of one Pamela Smart using a confidential informant. They decide to ask Cecilia to get wired. up wear a taping device under her clothes. And she goes to visit Pam at her office. The trap is set. Will Pam fall in? Hi. How are you? Good. Cecilia tells Pam that the cops have called her in for questioning about the murder.

Pretty much, they've established that, yeah, you had great killed. Why, though? Like, you know, because they can't think of any other reason why I've been on them would do it. Yeah, but you know. She doesn't want to be disdainting, you like to be, okay, I will. You know what I mean? Or did someone ask you to or not. As far as I can see it, Bill did it because he loves you.

She doesn't break into tears. She doesn't deny it. Nothing. That's very telling. Let me tell you how out of whack I was, okay? The day before this, I had a lawyer, and he calls me up and he says, whatever you do, don't talk to her. Because she's coming in and she's going to be why.

That's an astonishing admission. She says her lawyer warned her. Cecilia's dangerous. She could be wearing a wire if you talk to her. And yet she still does. I'm afraid of you're going to come in and you're going to be wired. I'm going to be busted. Give us a signal that...

Why would you need that if, in fact, you did have nothing to do with it and you weren't part of all of this? Now remember, Cecilia acknowledges that she knew in advance about the murder. And that's when Pam issues what seems like an ominous warning. I'm just like a lying, you know. Right? Pam is really concerned about you. Right?

Yeah, I know you're going to put you on that and I'm going to say, do you know, anything else? Do Pam do this now? If you tell the truth, you're probably going to be arrested. Pam is really concerned about Cecilia now. So she's telling Cecilia to basically lie. It sounds like you're admitting to something. My great, brilliant idea that I had

was that I was going to go in and have these conversations with her to make her feel more comfortable so she could tell me whatever she was going to tell me. All I wanted to know was, did this guy really kill my husband? Because more than anything, I wanted this not to be true

because I felt responsible. Ultimately, the wire that Cecilia Pierce wore became the reason the police were able to go and arrest Pamela Smart. The good news is we've got the person that murdered your husband. The bad news is it's you. You're under arrest. Hey moms. Looking for some lighthearted guidance on this crazy journey we call parenting.

Join me, Sabrina Colberg. And me, Andy Mitchell, for pop culture moms, where each week we talk about what we're watching. And examine our favorite pop culture moms. up close to try to pick up some parenting hacks along the way. Come laugh, learn, and grow with us as we look for the best tips. And maybe a few what-not-to-dos from our favorite fictional moms. From Good Morning America and ABC Audio.

Pop Culture moms. Find it wherever you get your podcasts. My name is Shannon Maldonado. I'm the founder of Yowie, a gift shop from the lens of artists and handmade objects. I chose Shopify because when I was testing other platforms, it was definitely one of the most user-friendly. It was important to me to think about where we would be in the future. All of the tools for reading your sales like planning inventory. They're just right there on your dashboard.

For anyone starting a small business, the biggest thing I can tell you is it doesn't have to be perfect. Shopify can help you build upon it. Start your free trial on Shopify.com. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like all the way. Stack more sales with the business. the best converting checkout on the planet.

Track your Chechings from every channel, right in one spot, and turn real-time reporting into big-time opportunities. Take your business to a whole new level. Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today. It is August 1st, 1990. Time is 10 a.m. Seward, New Hampshire.

We're about to do a one party. Consent via telephone between Sasega Pierce and Pamelaus Smart. Police are now ready to arrest. rest Pam smart. But first, they have Cecilia call her at her office one last time. Celia? Yeah. What's going on? I was just thinking of you this morning. On that call, Pam does confess to feeling guilty about something. She says she's feeling real remorse. But it doesn't have anything to do with her husband. You should have seen me when I hit home habit. I couldn't avoid it. It's totally

bouncing out of the road. I felt like, wherever? Yeah. Well, it's roadkill. I can't believe that you feel bad but running over a rabbit, but not about the rabbit. I do feel bad about the rabbit. That afternoon, the police arrive at Pam's office, and she has a lot more to answer for than running over a rabbit. Exactly three months from the day that her husband was murdered on August 1st, 1990. The police finally arrest Pam was smart. Pam, did you have anything to do with your husband's murder? I was really not worried about it because I knew that I hadn't done anything wrong.

I'm thinking this is going to get straightened out. She was charged with accomplice to first-degree murder. But at this point, the case against Pam is entirely circumstantial. The boys are in custody, but they are refusing to speak. They have convinced themselves that they will go free once they turn 18 if they just keep their mouth shut. They suddenly learn, and the prosecutors are telling them that it doesn't mean. matter that you're teenagers, we are going to try you as adults. They were looking at a lifetime in the penitentiary. Suddenly, they got very chatty.

They changed and they became her accuser and she became the person who planned it all. And then they were able to make a deal with the prosecution for lighter sentences. Sometimes to put the devil in jail, you got to go to hell to get your witnesses. And he had, that his family to get a divorce, a divorce. That then would get nothing and had any care, treated her, lousy. Just there's no way that no parent

to continue their relationship with greater life. You know, my recollection of Van Slade in me was, wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. You know, you had to sit there and wonder, how did you let yourself get involved? in this, but he was extremely loyal to Bill. And did you ever go to answer my talk? Yeah, I went in and raised me in, she was on the telephone

because she could put the phone on speaker form so everybody could hear. She was in a fight with her husband and Greg, and they were screaming back and forth and then they hung up because she says to the bell and see what I have to have done. You listen to those interrogations and you're struck by how they say Pam was just determined to get this done. How often would you talk to Pam about doing it? She made up with her once every day. She started yelling at me.

She's saying, well, if you're never going to do this, I want to know right now. So I can, um, so we can image right now because I don't want to, you know, more harm like this. this. Billy Flynn comes across as a kid trying to act like a man because he's in a man's relationship with Pam Smart and I think he wants to stand up and prove to her that he's that guy. But finally, police get down to the deed itself in the interrogation room. What did you expect you would get hands? I was told that he had $500. You don't tell you where the fight in much of the room. They said it was going to be done the smile. So a lot of how much transfer is supposed to be in a hundred forty thousand

miles? So a lot was made of this $140,000 insurance policy, that this was about sex and greed. Right, which makes no sense whatsoever because I made, I had a very good job. I made a lot of money for myself at that age that I was. I mean, I guess everybody needs money, but I really made my own money. The teens lay it all out. They say Pam told them to ransack the house and make it look like a robbery. Okay, gentlemen, is there any conversation about the gun?

Yes, yes. We have it. And then Bill said yes. The teens interrogation tapes were textbook. Classic. They revealed every detail. So did they concoct this as teenagers frequently do to protect each other? Yeah, it wasn't us. It was Pam. Or did Pam really help them? Was she the mastermind of this whole conspiracy to murder plot? So now, since the boys have turned, they have enough to take it to trial.

The trial was a sensation. The local station WMUR starts to preempt soap operas to cover this trial because what they have is a soap opera taking place in the courtroom. Spectators have been arriving shortly after midnight just to get a seat. What were you doing? Your right here. I had money for me. What happened now?

I was supposed to cut a spell. 1990, you know, that means we've got the hair bands beginning to give way to grunge out of Seattle, bands like Nirvana. Shows like Cheers are popular. It's a dog-eat-dog world, Sammy, and I'm wearing milkbone underwear. In New Hampshire, the local station WMUR starts to preempt soap operas to cover this trial. I dreamt I spent the entire evening with my sexy, gorgeous husband. The testimony of the rest of the state will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing left the truth is a cell property in a courtroom. The case had all of those elements, sex and betrayal and murder.

The trial was a sensation in part because it was at the dawn of cameras being in the courtroom. And so people could tune into their local station in New Hampshire. Watch wall-to-wall coverage. It ushered in a whole new era. A whole new genre for TV. Court trials. And before you know it, it becomes kind of nationwide news. The media coverage was intense.

In New Hampshire, Pamela Smart is on trial in what seems like the plot to a very bad movie. It was a tsunami of attention. Most of it was negative. Many people, very likely, had already formed an opinion of Pam Smart before the trial ever started. did not have a jury that was sequestered, so naturally we were concerned that they were going to be affected. Ladies and gentlemen, it was that woman who initiated, orchestrated, and directed William Flynn's killer husband. According to the state, Billy Flynn committed murder because Pam Smart put him up to it, luring him with money and sex.

But according to the defense, Billy Flynn committed murder out of a jealous rage. What will be coming before you from prosecution witnesses will probably be one of the most vile concoctions ever assembled in one quarter in the state of New Hampshire. The main takeaway that we wanted the jury to get is that the state of New Hampshire made a deal with the devil. The prosecutor made a plea deal agreement with Pete Randall and Billy Flynn, the two who had actually committed the murder. J.R. Lattamy, who was the getaway driver, also cut a deal. By pleading guilty and agreeing to testify, they had a chance at getting out of jail someday, and they took it.

Your voice, would you please state your name so that everyone in the jury box can hear? Patrick Allen Randall and Randall. Randall came across as a little more matter of fact. Some people describe it as cold. I'd like to call your attention to May 1st, 1990. Can you tell me what you did after school? I went to Haverill to pick up jail.

grandmother's car in order to go to Derry to kill Gregory Smok. The goal is to show that Pamela Smart, with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, mastermind of this murder. Can you tell us what you said to the defendant and what you said to you? She told me that she'd leave the back doors unlocked, not to herd a dog,

and that we could ransack the apartment, to the condo, take what we wanted, and we'd forget to come home, and when Greg came home, we were to kill him. What else was said at that time? I felt that stabbing Greg would be a lot easier than shooting him and told me that if I was the stabbing, it would probably get blood everywhere, and not to get blood on the sofa.

It was downright strange to listen to him, describe so matter-factly, so unemotionally, him participating in the killing of Greg Smart. When Greg came into the door, he opened up the door, and called to his dog. And he was grabbing, pulled him in to house, and he was screaming and trying to run out. He switched instead of asking about his dog.

And he just told him his dog was okay. Don't worry your dog. No, no hurt your dog. Randall says he then holds a knife to Greg's throat and orders him to hand over the wedding ring he's wearing. He told me he couldn't give it to me. Why? He said his wife would kill him.

He just looked sinister. You know how a shark? His eyes don't look like they're living. Looks like he's dead. What happened next? I was supposed to cut his throat. Did you at that time? No, I do not.

Why not? I couldn't do it. Why couldn't you do it? Because of some things he said and because I couldn't do it. What happened after that? He took the gun out and shot him. He certainly came across. He certainly came across as someone who didn't seem as bothered as you might think he would be for having been involved in this crime.

What was your motivation to taking part of this murder? Bill was my friend and I didn't want to see him get caught for committing murder and there were financial games. Your peers have a huge influence on what you do and don't do. But Billy was probably admired. The power of teen friendships is very strong. You get a bunch of misguided kids who feel like they've shown up for one another, that they're helping one another.

They may not truly understand that committing homicide crosses a line that should never be crossed. They calls Vance Latomy. Latomy was a bit different in that he wasn't there for the actual murder. He was in the the car outside. Pam had asked how should she react and she can solve the fines great day.

She had asked whether she should scream, run house to house or just running to call police, how should she react. You get a sense of just how amateurish these teens were. Latamy made fun of Randall and Flynn for buying latex gloves that were too thin to even hide their fingerprints. And why was that funny? Because I figured that almost plan and he was supposed to be. will be doing with this murder that you know it's so bad as he'd have the better set

in the gloves and then he said to stop at the store and put scarred's tape around each of their fingers and then put the gloves on over the tape to prevent finger prints you know in every big trial there's that one aha moment the moment everybody remembers was Simpson it was the glove in this case it was Pam Smart and a white strapless bikini posing suggestively on a bed. While Pamela Smart was the big draw today, the case against her was built on the testimony of several teenagers. Would she please take?

William Flint? How old he was to Flint? Um, 16. Groupies of the Pamela Smart trial camp out for hours. If this story were a made for TV movie and it surely will be, you might not believe it. Nobody really understands that these guys were not Bear in mind, Billy Flynn's sidekick, Pete Randall, was involved in several thefts, and Billy himself admitted to burglary.

When Billy Flynn took the stand, he seemed to be every bit the innocent virgin that the prosecution painted him in the opening statements. He tells the first time what was ever been doing. She'd seen a lawyer in history? I said, yeah. She said, well, do I have to call him that radio? I said, yeah. Basically, if you believed Billy Flynn, you believe Billy Flynn.

believed Billy Flynn you didn't need anything else now you go take us back to her driving you home that night what happened bill Flynn is supposed to be so innocent that he was was manipulated by me, right? But at the same time, he was smart enough to manipulate his friends to go kill a person they've never even met. She said, anybody to help you, could have anything in the house,

because she's insured. And where did the defendant say she'd be? And where did the defendant say she'd be? I wanted to get up and say, stop lying. You think he lied to get a lesser sentence? Absolutely. Yeah, I know he lied. You know, in every big trial, there's that one uh-huh moment, the moment everybody remembers was Simpson, it was the glove. In this case, it was Pam Smart and a white strapless bikini posing suggestively on a bed.

Well, as if this super sensational trial isn't crazy enough already, my God. They were made between her and a friend, a girlfriend, for a modeling contest, they took photos of each other. Those photographs made it into court, and the prosecution claimed that she had deliberately taken those to be seductive, to get Billy Flynn to do her bidding, to kill her husband. She said she didn't want him, she's just going to do them out. If I wanted him, I could have him. When those photographs come in, you can see it kind of was overwhelming for a teenage boy.

This was a lot of sex for a 16-year-old to have. You can get that sense that it had a lot of influence on him, a lot of power over him, enough to make him kill. The prosecution said, see, here's more examples of Pam using her wiles to keep this boy besotted by her. Not at all. Pam's side of the story is that she denies ever letting Flynn see those photos. Of all the people that took the witness stand, I think people were more moved

by Billy Flynn than anyone else. I heard Greg walking up towards the door. How wasn't that he overpowered? Well, he wasn't struggling very much. He was just asking what was going on. What you tell him? I just told him to shut up. I took the cut out of my pocket.

What happened? I caught the hammer back, and I pointed the gun his head. After you pointed to gun at his head, what you do? I just stood there. How long was? A hundred years, it seemed like. I said, God forgive me.

He started crying, and I'm looking at the jury, and I'm seeing that they, it looks like they feel sorry for him. I wanted to scream. I mean, he killed somebody, a defenseless man on his knees, execution style, yet he became sympathetic on that stand, because he was so young. so emotional and Pam Smart is sitting over at that defense table she is the orchestrator this was just a pawn okay so you're saying that Pam made you kill the Greg I performed

the act yes but I never would have done it if Pam didn't tell me to you were just like a machine or something like that she was the first girl I ever loved now it's the defense's turn to make their case and in a bold move they put Pamela Smart herself on the stand The courtroom was hushed. She was again dressed in her prim proper little outfit with her hair done perfectly with a big bow. She was insistent about taking this tan. Pamela, Ann Smart.

To make sure the jury know that she did not kill her husband. Why did you very good stuff? Because I loved him. I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him. Did she have any problems? Greg didn't come home one night. She told me that that he had been with someone else.

How did he react to her? Because she had no expression, was immediately convicted as a nice princess and a cold-blooded killer. Maybe if Pam had cried, things would be different. The defense argument was that Pamela Smart fully admitted she'd had an affair with a teenage boy. Well, I didn't set out to have an affair with him, but I did. Pamela Smart had broken the affair off, and he got mad,

and that was his retribution to kill her husband in cold blood. It told him that I didn't want to have a relationship with them anymore, and he started crying, and he said that he couldn't live without me. It's a huge risk in any trial for the defendant to take the witness stand, because you're then subject to cross-examination by people who do it for a living. You said, when you heard Bill Flynn was arrested, say, oh my God, they heard about the affair, they arrested the wrong person.

Of course, she went right to the police to straighten that out, didn't you? No, because I thought if the police knew that I had an affair with Bill, and they would automatically conclude that I was involved in the murder, and also the police never asked me. Oh, they didn't ask you.

Oh. I believe it was a huge mistake to put Pam Smart on the stand. She was destroyed. She was torpedoed on cross-examination. You've had a lot of mistakes so fine, Ms. King? I sure have. Yes, I have.

Was killing your husband one of those mistakes? No, it wasn't. You got any of the divorce? Maybe that was one of the mistakes. You should have got a divorce, but you didn't? No, I didn't want to get divorced. Please try and face the jury. I felt like the jury was either going to be hung

or they were going to find me guilty. I thought there was no chance at that point that the jury was going to say I was innocent. The jury number one, is the defendant guilty or not guilty? The verdict that's about to be handed down would be swift. The punishment severe. severe.

And yet three years later, it was still must-see TV, when Diane Sawyer landed the only interview with the Trigger Man himself, Billy Flynn. Bill Flynn, we asked him if there were one question he could ask you. I think I know what it's going to be. Wait, what do you think it's going to be? I'm Keanu, and I leveled up my business with Shopify.

Once I figured out that Shopify was a thing, I never turned back. I can create a site with my eyes closed. Shopify thinks ahead of us, you know, and it thinks about the customer more than anything. Every day I'm thinking about some other new business. But Shopify is doing it to me because it's so easy to use. It's like I can't stop. I'm addicted. Start your free trial at Shopify.com.

I started Or Not in 2013, and we make bike apparel. The best part of Shopify for me is our ability to run the business as essentially non-technical people. We're able to admin everything on the back end, front end, and sell things online easily. If Shopify were a bike accessory, I think it would actually be the bicycle. It's the thing that you do the thing on. We run the business on Shopify. Start your free trial on Shopify.com. Madam, please rise.

Adam, four lady, please stand. Has the jury reached a verdict on each of the three offenses charged? Yes, we have. The adrenaline. starts running through your body and your heart's pumping. After 13 hours of deliberation, it all came down to this. That's not that long. Usually quick verdicts mean a jury's gonna quit.

I'll say it was a defendant guilty or not guilty to the offense charged. Guilty. Guilty. Greg Smart's family led out a howl. On Pam's side of the courtroom, her parents just sat in deathly silence crushed. went from finding out whether she was guilty or innocent to being sentenced within a matter of minutes.

I am required and do hereby sentence you to the New Hampshire State Prison for women for the remainder of your life without the possibility of parole. Mrs. Smart, you're in the custody of the sheriff. This hearing is adjourned. Our feelings were overjoyed. I just don't know how to explain it. I just, I wanted to scream and holler and jump and everything. The entire smart family went to Greg's grave, and they They knelt by the grave and they formed a circle and they told them it was finally over that Pam had been convicted and she was going to go to prison. I remember Diane Sawyer interviewed Pamela Smart and I was riveted. Tonight Pamela Smart, her first interview since the arrest.

Even four years after the murder, the country was still transfixed. I didn't really consider Bill to be a kid. I guess age wise he must he was. But at the time, I just felt that he was more mature. She also got the only interview ever with Billy Flynn. I was still in love with Pam. That trial was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life ever.

I guess it's hard for a lot of people to think that you could do something like that for love. That was the whole world to me back then. I fell in love with her. Then she was really all I had, you know. If you're in the hands of somebody who's older, they're going to have power. to manipulate and to guide.

And you can't always trust that. They're just not old enough to make that decision. The frontal cortex is not fully developed yet, so their ability to really think through consequences for their choices is not in place. Perhaps the most memorable moment in the Diane Sawyer special is when she tells Pam Smart about a revealing question she asked Billy Flynn.

We asked him if there were one question he could ask you what it would be and here's what he said I think I know what it's gonna be wait what do you think it's gonna be did you really love me if you could ask her one question what would it be whether or not she really ever loved me that in you know in hindsight that might not seem like a very big deal with most people but knowing that she had me do this and that I did go through with it. She never really loved me. Would probably kill me.

Yes, I did. I think I didn't really love him. If I were to ask you that question again now, is there a more nuanced answer? Did you love him? I feel like I loved him. I cared for him. I had feelings, you know, people act like I just used him, you know, and went larking through the school, looking for somebody to manipulate, and it was just really wasn't even like that. For this broadcast, her mother, Linda Wojus, traveled to New York as part of her never-ending quest to win her daughter's freedom.

You've been an tireless advocate. You would be too, I would hope. Do you think your daughter had a fair trial? No. Why? The three things you're supposed to do from the U.S. Supreme Court. When you have publicity attendant to her, like in her trial, 1,200 newspaper articles screaming her guilt, that you'll put in safeguards.

Stay the trial while the publicity abates, you change the venue and you sequester the jury. Judge Gray refused motion after motion to do any of that. I don't think it was necessary. I don't know about everybody else, but I got the sense that 12 good people told not to watch TV can pull that feet off without much difficulty. The reality is, however, that no matter where you try,

Sam Smart. A jury will likely convict her based on the evidence. She tried the appeals process. She exhausted every appeal. Remember Pamela Smart? Today the U.S. Supreme Court turned down her final appeal. What happened with Pam is that people see her as having committed a sin more than a crime. Our sin was the affair with a young boy. Pam's advocates and a growing chorus of feminists believed that Pam Smart got a raw deal because she's a woman. It's an old, old sin. And it's the same one, you know, that goes back to Adam and Eve,

where Adam plea bargains with God and gets a reduced sentence. And Eve gets the book thrown at her. Pamela Smart has now been in jail for nearly three decades. But the boys finished serving their time. It sort of made me sick knowing that these kids were going to get out of jail long before Pam Smart ever would. In my mind, they were more guilty than she was. I mean, these are some bad people.

Even if you believe she's guilty, which I don't, the actual killers who said, yes, we murdered him, are walking around and having their lives, and she deserves better. Pam said to me, you know, Mom, El Chapo has the same sentence I do. It's one thing for Pam's mom to rail against the sentence, but you might be surprised what the price. prosecutor who put her in prison things now.

I'm not making a personal statement about Pam. What I'm saying is I don't know if it's fair for anybody who's been sentenced to life without parole to be in jail for the rest of their life. I don't know if that's fair, okay? There's a petition online. Clearly, you're never going to give up. No, no, I won't. I just hope God lets me live long enough to see her free.

But now it seems, Pam's mom. Walking Free just might happen sooner than later, after all. My name is Pamela Smart. I've been incarcerated since 1990. Thanks to this stunning change of heart. I had to acknowledge for the first time in my own mind, in my own heart, how responsible I was. Pamela Smart is sent to prison and winds up in Bedford Hills. Guess what movie they play for the In-Mexamination.

play for the inmates one night. Did you get the gun? No, not yet. To die for it. And this fictionalized version of her life would now be taken as gospel. I just want to know when. Let's just do this. I don't know whenever it's...

Oh. Look, if you don't know, I guess I have to find somebody who does. She felt that she got a lot of attention and a lot of abuse in prison as a result of that movie, and people thinking they knew who she was. She was attacked by two inmates who thought she was a snitch. And they beat her and really harmed her permanently. They fractured a orbital lobe in her eye. She's got a plate on the side of her face.

It's been much easier for her in later years. She has been a model prisoner in every way. She's tutored other prisoners. She's been part of the ministry behind bar. She's gotten two master's degrees. And in 2021, saying that she'd been fully rehabilitated, Smart petitioned the governor of New Hampshire, seeking a commutation of her sentence.

Dear Governor Sununu, without executive intervention, I will die in prison. I was struck by the letters of support, and then I got to the memo that she personally wrote. Although I never wanted, nor I never wanted, nor asked Mr. Flynn to murder Gregg. She claimed she had no involvement with his death. How do I trust someone who hasn't even come to terms

with her own responsibility for the death of her husband? The vote was for against, giving her any kind of sentence relief. Which brings us to Pam Smart's most recent effort, this video released to the media earlier this summer, a new approach after 33 years. My name is Pamela Smart. I've been incarcerated since 1990.

Taking responsibility. I found myself responsible for something I desperately didn't want to be responsible for it. My husband's murder. Pam, inside prison, began to undertake the really serious and hard work about, you know, taking stock of what led her to prison and also coming to grips with, you know, her own culpability, acknowledging her responsibility and saying, look, My husband's death, it's my fault. I had to acknowledge for the first time in my own mind, in my own heart, how responsible I was.

Because the truth of being so responsible was very difficult for me. Where is Pam Smart today? What has she changed? What has she improved? How has she made the case for her own commutation? And one of the things is her more public acknowledgement of responsibility. And I think that's important. I'm respectfully asking for the opportunity to come before you, the New Hampshire Executive Council, and have an honest conversation.

There's a question of someone's remorse. There's a question of someone's responsibility. But there's also the question of who the person is today. It's a testament to her character, and she becomes a prime case for a sentence commutation. This is not someone who should perish in prison. reacting to Smart's latest appeal. New Hampshire governor Chris Sununu telling ABC News, New Hampshire's process for commutation or pardon requests is fair and thorough. Pamela Smart will be given the same opportunity to petition the council for a hearing as any other individual.

What does redemption mean to you? It means that we don't define people by the very worst thing they've ever done in life. It means that people change. People grow and they evolve over time. That's our program for tonight. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Deppra Roberts. And I'm David Muir from all of us here at 2020 and ABC News.

Good night. When it's time to scale your business, it's time for Shopify. Get everything you need to grow the way you want. Like, all the way. Stack more sales with the best converting checkout on the planet. Track your Chechings from every channel, right in one spot, and turn real-time reporting into big-time opportunity. Take your business to a whole new level.

Switch to Shopify. Start your free trial today.