20/20 - Family Lies?

Episode Date: April 5, 2025

A deadly family drama involving an inheritance, a mother lost at sea and never-before-heard revelations about the shocking search and rescue mystery. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. One family. Oh my god. Possible 45.

Two horrible tragedies. That's pretty dark stuff. At sea. And on land. My father, he is in bed and someone shot him in the head. Do you remember what you noticed? First thing I thought is this crime scene is staged. Linda always felt that she deserved more

than what she was getting, because she and my dad were always fighting heads. We've got no weapons. We've got no enemies. We know them. We know them. And no more details, because she disappears. I told her not to go on that boat.

So she went out of the way to give them information in case something happened. Yes, indeed. It's just getting wilder and wilder, told her not to go on that boat. So she went out of the way to give them information in case that something happened. Yes, indeed. It's just getting wilder and wilder. Because in the middle of the ocean, nobody can hear you scream. The water is so clear.

It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream.

It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. It's like a dream. the one that got away. And this is Nathan Carmins. The 22-year-old was set to meet up with his mom, Linda, for a late-night fishing trip out here off the coast of Rhode Island. But for Linda, the trip was less about catching bass and more about bonding with her son. Fishing was one of the things that brought them together.

And that was Linda really giving herself to the experience, because Linda hated fishing. Linda didn't eat fish, but she thought this was the only thing that made Nathan happy. And she wanted to connect with her son in any way possible. That was a common occurrence. They used to go either weekly or sometimes bi-weekly. Nathan and his mother, they'd taken a boating course. They had some fundamental knowledge, but they stuck pretty close to land and were fishing for stripers and blues.

Nathan's experience was, I would characterize him as a recreational fisherman. Mom and son planned to cruise toward Block Island in this boat, which Nathan recently bought one that just passed inspection by the Coast Guard a month earlier. That's comforting to Linda, who has a better to be safe than sorry approach when it comes to boating. So she begins to tell her friends about this fishing trip and shares information as to where they're going to

be at specific times during that trip. Linda is so cautious. She even texts photos of the boat and its registration number to her friends so it could be easily spotted if the boat breaks down. You're relying on your engine. You're relying on electronics to get you there. On a starless night with calm seas, the two depart Ram Point Marina in Rhode Island at about 11 p.m. Linda texts her friends that the journey is underway. The boat is never seen or heard from again.

One of my sisters had called me and said Linda and Nathan are missing. And I kind of freaked out. Linda's friends began to worry on Sunday of that weekend because Linda had claimed that she was going to come back and text them when she arrived. Linda always did a float log. And when Linda got back, she'd call her friend Sharon.

And Sharon never received a phone call. That's when two of her best friends reach out to authorities and say, something has happened. There are two missing voters off the coast of Rhode Island. We need your help. It started out as a typical missing persons investigation, which is not criminal in nature. Our first order of business is naturally to find the missing people, gather the facts and circumstances to try to

determine how they potentially went missing. Oftentimes people are not missing, they just overdue. The US Coast Guard quickly begins a search over the Atlantic. The United States Coast Guard really deployed every available resource that they had to find this missing boat. They deployed fixed-wing aircraft, reconnaissance planes, Coast Guard cutters. Given the nature of the success rate that the Coast Guard has with search and rescue,

I was very, very shocked that they were not finding anything. We deferred to the Coast Guard for search and rescue efforts. In that respect, they were really scouring the ocean, and the search efforts came up unsuccessful. I think it was day six that the Coast Guard made a decision to call off any additional search. And at that point, they had covered 64,000 square nautical miles, which is a massive, massive search area.

So the Orient Lucky, which is a Chinese cargo ship, they are out around 115 miles south of Martha's Vineyard as they were shifting ballast in their ship. The Orient Lucky routinely travels the high seas picking up cargo, but this time it will make headlines for picking up something else. Lucky, indeed. They saw what they believed was an orange ball

popping out of the ocean about one square nautical mile from where the cargo ship was positioned at the time. And when they got a little closer they realized it was a life raft and inside that life raft was a figure, a young man standing and waving a flag in distress. Getting this large freighter close enough to not kill Nathan Carmen but save Nathan Carmen was a challenge and I think the captain made a certain maneuver that allowed them to get a little closer to Nathan where they could deploy a life ring and the life ring

landed several feet away from where the life raft was. So Nathan then had to jump out of the life raft and swim. The STON crew members document the rescue with a series of photos and videos. Once he's on board, Nathan is offered hot soup, water, and dry clothes. I got a call from my supervisor saying that Nathan had been recovered by a passing ship.

I was shocked and I was thankful there was a survivor. The rescue, a kind of needle in a haystack, becomes international news. And a man lost at sea with his mother for eight days has been found alive in good condition. There were pictures of Nathan that were on the front page of newspapers all over the world, because everybody thought that this was a wild story.

Next tonight here, the family mystery at sea. More than 100 miles from land, the discovery. And authorities asking what happened. Nathan, this is United States Coast Guard Boston. Over. Mom and I, two people, myself and my mom, were fishing. And there was a funny noise in the engine compartment. I looked and saw a lot of water. The boats dropped out from under my feet. When I saw the life raft, I did not see my mom.

Have you found her? No, we haven't been able to find her yet. No, we haven't been able to find her yet. Nathan Carmen is still on that freighter. He's expected to arrive in Boston tomorrow night. So now we can start to maybe get some insight as to what transpired and why it had transpired. But it was also concerning because Linda hadn't been recovered. because Linda hadn't been recovered. Happy to be back on land, but exhausted by his ordeal, Nathan heads home and asks for privacy.

I would just like to thank the public for their prayers and for their concern for both my mother and for myself. It's not the first time this family has dealt with drama and tragedy. Oh my God, oh my God. This is an article map. The area that Nathan departed from is right up here. His transit would have taken him down this body of up here. His transit would have taken him down

this body of water here. That is the point in which one of the individuals traveling inbound observed Nathan and Linda on the boat. And that was the last time that anyone saw the boat. In the days and weeks after his dramatic sea rescue, Nathan finds himself just as alone on land as he was at sea. And he feels like the media has gotten his story wrong, so he agrees to an interview with ABC News.

It would be great to have people embracing you, saying we're glad you're home, we're glad you're alive. It hasn't been that. Loneliness seems to be Nathan's constant companion. He grew up an only child. His parents divorced when he was little. Kids made fun of him at school. I heard people trying to imitate him or you know try to make fun of his the way he spoke and I've definitely seen people mock the way

he ran down the hallway. I got the impression that a lot of people didn't try to talk to him and maybe that kind of contributed to his loneliness or feeling isolated and uncomfortable being in crowds and with other people. His best friend in the world was one who wouldn't judge him, a horse named Cruz. Yes, I was very fortunate in that regard and I was able to really form a strong bond emotionally. Cruz and Nathan had a very tight bond. It was definitely his best friend, his confidant. I went to the stable once with Linda and Nathan. We were ready to leave the stable.

I said, well, where's Nathan? Go on in and get Nathan. She's like, no, Nathan loves to spend time with Cruz alone before we leave. And he was there for probably a good half hour, if not longer, just spending time with Cruz in his stall. But when Nathan is 17, that bond shatters. Cruz dies.

Devastated, Nathan runs away from his Connecticut home. Nathan doesn't stop running until he reaches Virginia, 600 miles away. That's where a sheriff's deputy finds him. Running away from home was something that I felt that I had to do with the time. I don't fully understand or comprehend that sitting here now. A couple of interesting things Nathan had on him on his possession when he was found in Virginia.

He had $4,000 in cash. That money had been given to him by his grandfather, but he also had a couple of photos of his horse, Cruz. And he had a Ziploc bag with some of the horse's hair in it. His parents drive all night to Virginia to bring Nathan home. Clark Carmen told me that Nathan had fled to a horse farm, or that's where he was supposed to be going, in Florida because Nathan had told his father that that was a place that

he could feel normal. Nathan is diagnosed with Asperger's, which we now know as autism spectrum disorder. Social interactions and communication skills can be challenging. I'm not someone who understands relationships or who's good about talking about emotions. But Nathan does share a close relationship with his grandfather, John Chakalos, a wealthy real estate developer who made his fortune in the nursing home business. My dad had five sisters and four daughters and then he had his first grandchild. I think Linda was really excited that she had a boy to bring into my dad's life.

And then Nathan comes along, and he's your uncle's first grandchild. He doted on it. Right. How excited was he to have a grandson? I mean, there's not really even words for it. He had such great hopes for that kid. Tell me about the daughters in the family. I think they were all different, different individuals.

Elaine was the oldest. The next one down was Linda. She was more like John personality wise. Charlene is the next one down. Valerie's the youngest. I think she was kind of like the apple of John's eye. My grandfather was the closest person to me. He was like a father to me and I know I was like a son to him. When it comes to business, Nathan, a teenager, has a pretty unusual role at his grandfather's company,

one that requires him to look and listen closely. John Chaklis brought Nathan to all of his business dealings because John Chaklis was hard of hearing, and Nathan was his both eyes and ears at every business meeting. They would consult each other after the business meetings were completed. So I think that, you know, John Chaklis was grooming Nathan to take over the family business.

I got the feeling that John had a very good relationship with him and was trying to cultivate that. Nathan was his introvert and his John was extroverted, I think. What was his relationship like? As Nathan is growing up, you said there weren't enough words. He kind of treated him the same way that he treated me when I was a kid. You know, I mean, he couldn't do enough for him. The only problem with it is that John always looked at a problem,

if there's a problem, if you throw enough money at it, it's going to solve it. John Chaklos doted on Nathan, gave him anything he wanted, whether it was a credit card or a new truck or a new apartment. There was nothing that Nathan needed because John was always there with his checkbook or his credit card to give Nathan anything he wanted. With a support system like his granddad, Nathan's future could be limitless until one phone call changes everything.

Oh my god! Oh my god! The front door was locked! Oh my god! It's possible 45. Oh my god! I don't even know what to do. I don't even know where to look. Windsor, Connecticut is a typical small town. Pretty nice community. You know, not a lot of crime. Murders in Windsor are very rare. Not rare enough for the man living on Overlook Drive. John Chakalos was a self-made man here in Windsor, Connecticut, running his multi-million dollar real estate business out of his modest home. That is until the morning of December 20th, 2013.

Police arrive here after getting an urgent 911 call. Okay, what's your question? I came to check on my father to pick him up for an activity. He is in bed and someone shot him in the head. Is he still alive? I don't think so. I walked into the bedroom and there's blood all over the back wall.

When I saw the news and my dad being brought out, you know, in a body bag and them saying it was a murder, I lost it. I lost it. I fell to the floor and I'm crying hysterically. My name is Scott McGregor. In 2013, I was a detective for the Windsor Police Department. Mr. Chakales was found in a bedroom on the upper part of the house, in his bed. We found him, and he had been shot three times.

The scene says a lot to the detective, not for what's in the house, but for what isn't. You obviously start looking for evidence and when you can't find spent shell casings, once again you go back to whoever did this, you know, took the time to retrieve those casings and not leave evidence behind. That kind of tells us that the person planned this out knew to cover their steps, which ultimately makes our investigation harder. Sergeant Chris McKee also gets the call to head to Overlook Drive, a quiet street with a quiet resident who wasn't exactly well known

around town. How did he fit into the community in terms of how he had accumulated his wealth? Was he kind of like a little local success story? I gotta say he had he ran in his circles and his business circles. He wasn't known in Windsor, you know, and I was I was very active in community roles in the department and like I said I didn't I wasn't aware of him until this He was very active in community roles in the department, and like I said, I didn't, I wasn't aware of him until this investigation. McKee walks into a bloody scene.

You're looking around the room. Do you remember what you noticed? A little further down from Mr. Chakalos' bedroom, there was a glass door, or a door with glass panes that led into the backyard. The officer and I observed that there was broken glass. A break-in? Well, it looked like it was meant to be a break-in.

But looking at it, it was very clear that the glass had been punched from the wrong side, and it was very suspicious. First thing I thought is this crime scene is staged. The recently widowed victim was known to keep cash in his house. But after the shots were fired, the gunman left. The money still there.

Was there any sense that it had been ransacked or robbed? There had been large sums of money in the house and other valuables. Honestly, nothing appeared touched. It told me that this was personal. The devastated family speaks out on local news, hoping to catch a killer. My father, while he lived a small life, he was a very large man. And to know him, you could never forget him. Anything, anyone could have done this.

This person killed at least once that we know of. This person's gotten away with murder and chances are it will happen again. When we start any murder investigation we want to do a timeline. We want to start trying to find out who was with John. My father, we were trying to, my mother passed November 21st. My father for two weeks was staying with one of us or Linda was staying at my father's house. Another curious thing about the home, doesn't exactly look like a millionaire lives there. One of the victim's daughters explains why.

My father has an elaborate estate. I mean, the man's worth at least 40 to 50 million dollars. I mean it's huge. You wouldn't know it going into the house. That's the only reason why I'm bringing up my father's financial work. It's because looking at this house you would not know that he has a 25,000 square foot house up in New Hampshire. house you would not know that he has a 25,000 square foot house up in New Hampshire. You find out that this is a prominent businessman, a wealthy businessman. What does that say to you initially about this? Kind of starts to focus investigators in on was this financially motivated. Did someone have, this gentleman had a lot of money, a lot of properties, did someone have something to gain financially from his death. The videos of the Windsor police interviewing various family members have never been broadcast before.

Nathan and I went fishing. We went out of Point Judith, Rhode Island. So we went on a contract that left at 6 in the morning, got back into port at 4 o'clock in the afternoon. We learned that John, the day before, the last person to see him was his grandson, Nathan Carlin. We learned that through talking to Nathan, talking to family. Hey, Nathan, what's your last name? My last name is spelled C-A-R-M-A-N. We have to treat everyone as a possible suspect.

Family, associates, people who worked in the office, neighbors, anything. Anyone could have done this. Investigators ask Nathan about employees at Chocolosis Company. And the grandson mentions one who, he says, complains about being overworked and underpaid. Just that I'm underpaid, also the stress load. I have 101 things to do, I have to get all these papers in. Now you're asking me to do this and the other thing. So he would bitching on about that.

The bookkeeper is in fact stealing from the Chocolosis company. So obviously someone we want to talk to. Nathan begins outlining his final evening with his grandfather from the Chocolosis Company. So obviously someone we want to talk to. Nathan begins outlining his final evening with his grandfather to investigators. It begins with dinner. He was going to come here and eat that night with Nathan. That was the plan and he wanted me to come too. And you know, I said, look, you know, you guys go do it.

If I only knew what I knew, you know, now. After their meal, Nathan and his grandfather return to the Windsor home. At some point, John Chakalos gets a phone call and puts it on speaker. I think that there's a real possibility that the person who called him may have been a mistress. I don't like saying that my grandfather was doing that,

but I think there's that real possibility. It wasn't one of your aunts? No, it was not one of my aunts. It was not one of my aunts, no one in the family. Very young, I was 23. And he then told that female voice to just wait. I'll hold on a second. He showed me to the door. Nathan Carmen is correct. There is a young woman Chakalos has been talking to.

And she became a suspect. Did you go anywhere else that night or anything like that? Or did you just stay home? No, I was, I didn't sleep because I was, I had to be at, I was supposed to be at the, meet my mom at three o'clock. When I fall asleep, I have difficulty waking up. So I tried to stay awake. I did run out to a stopping shop and I got some ice cream for myself.

I picked up a few AAA batteries because I was out of them. And then I headed home. Then I stayed until I went back out to meet my mom. Investigators don't have much to go on, with the exception of some security camera footage, which they use to retrace the last days of John Chakalos' life. Like this casino video, where the 87-year-old is seen

with a much younger woman. Will it provide investigators with answers? This show is supported by Chime. With a Chime checking account, you're one step closer to a better financial future. Chime offers everything you need to build yourself up financially with no monthly fees. You can manage your money the way you need to build yourself up financially with no monthly fees. You can manage your money the way you need to, whether that's accessing your paycheck early with MyPay or overdrafting up to $200 without fees with SpotMe. Plus, there are over 50,000 fee-free ATMs nationwide. Make progress towards a better financial future with Chime. Open your account in two minutes at

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at select top restaurants when booking through OpenTable. Learn more at opentable.ca forward slash visa dining. The Windsor Police Department may not know who killed John Chalkolos yet, but they are beginning to understand who did not. Remember the woman Nathan heard on the phone? And the woman at the casino? They are one and the same.

So John Chakalos struck up a relationship with a 25-year-old woman over the course of a year. She was an acquaintance of John, who was going to the casino, staying overnight. The night of that homicide, she confirmed that she had talked to John, but she was kind of quickly dismissed as being involved. Investigators have also tracked down that bookkeeper Nathan mentioned. His name is William Satie, and he too is cleared.

He had had an alibi that night and was confirmed. I think he was actually out of the state at the time. I think we found him in Rhode Island. While cleared as a suspect in the murder, Satie was later convicted of stealing some $400,000 from Chakalis' company. But that's small change compared to the money the patriarch was handing over to family members every year. One of the problem children was Linda.

Linda was taking John's allowances and going off on spending sprees at casinos or going skiing or taking these lavish trips around the world. Linda always felt that she deserved more than what she was getting. I don't know why she felt that way. I don't know. Because she and my dad were always butting heads.

Father and daughter also butt heads over the way Nathan is being raised. The relationship between John and Linda was always volatile, but one day it turned violent. And that was over Nathan's care. Nathan was put into a psychiatric hospital shortly after his horse, Cruz, had died. And the accusations begin to fly. Linda accuses John of smothering her son with all sorts of riches, and John is yelling at Linda,

saying that she is a bad mother and that Nathan is normal, and that Nathan should be treated as such. And at one point, John reaches across the table and grabs Linda by the hair and starts to pull it. So Linda swings and she starts to fight back at her father. And it's a combustible moment that probably lasted a minute plus and they're swinging at each other,

they're fighting each other. And the Ortolese are summoned as well as the local police and Linda is arrested right on the spot. Linda chalks it up as two people cut from the same cloth. I don't back down for my father. Yeah. And that's just his personality, not the back down. Yeah, and it's not his personality back down either. So if anyone would have fought with him, you know, it would have been me.

Linda has spent many more years fighting to protect her son from those who might treat him unkindly. I know he led a very lonely life. You know, it was at the age where kids were being invited to birthday parties and you know having play dates and nobody was calling for Nathan to go to the birthday party and you know it was sad and she hated that for her child. You know, any mother would hate it if her child wasn't included in anything. But, yeah, it must have been hard for Linda

not being able to fix that. Linda was a fixer. Linda had to fix things. And, or at least try to fix things, and she just could not fix that. Linda and Nathan had a very unique and conflicted relationship. Nathan saw his mother as somebody who was incredibly domineering, and Linda was always trying to get him the therapy that she thought he needed. And I think Nathan wanted to get as far away from his mother as possible

because Nathan didn't want to feel different from anybody else. And with his grandfather Nathan feels like a success. He learns about business, he's a confidant to John Chakalos, his college tuition is paid for, and so is the rent on his apartment and his credit card bills. Linda couldn't compete with that. I think what it comes down to is Nathan's always felt torn between me and my father. Pickin' sides. Like he had to pick a side. How's your relationship in general to your mother? I did move out of her house when we were not on good terms. But I since not started speaking to her again.

Probably her gravity turns up. Did that concern you at all in terms of looking at him as a suspect that maybe he might exhibit behavior that you wouldn't normally see, but he does have a disorder? That was a concern of many of us is are the behaviors we're seeing are the answers he's giving in that one interview that he did grant are these more aligned with behaviors perhaps of someone who is on the autism spectrum or

can we look at these for what we would normally would kind of think this is kind of sketchy little suspicious we want to delve more into this. Was your grandpa involved during that time? Yes, my grandpa, he facilitated financially my ability to go off on work. So for Linda, the recent fishing trips are a way of pulling her son back into her life. But now there's the murder of her father to deal with and lots of money at

stake. Everybody is under the microscope. The only weapons, anybody else in the family, anybody have access to any weapons, anybody that knows anybody that knows anybody that has weapons, nothing at all. Okay. So we've got no weapons, we've got no enemies, we know. We know.

Do you own any firearms? I do have an air gun. I'm not sure if that counts as a firearm, but is it the only? Yes, it is. But after speaking with a long line of friends, family and business associates, investigators are about to realize they've been lied to. In the wake of 87-year-old John Chakalos' brutal murder, investigators have few leads, with one notable exception, fragments of the bullets fired at the victim. There's hope that they could be traced back to a possible murder weapon.

What kind of weapon was used to kill him? It was believed to be a rifle because it was a.308 cartridge, you know, a certain type of bullet. And a ballistics test concludes the gun used was most likely a Sig Sauer rifle like this one. But in the wake of the Newtown massacre, these types of weapons were illegal to own in Connecticut, where Chocolos was murdered. The detectives focused a lot of their attention on New Hampshire. They scoured gun dealers, I think well over 600 gun dealers, looking for that six-hour rifle.

Eventually, investigators make their way to a place called Shooter's Outpost and speak with salesman Jed Warner about recent purchases. He remembers an interaction with a customer just weeks earlier. He definitely stood out because he looked like he came off like a construction site. His pants were dirty, he was wearing like a pair of like dirty boots, like a construction feel about him. We started talking about rifles and targeting.

He said, actually I'm very interested in the Sig Sauer 716. It's an expensive rifle, retailing for almost $2,000. Jed says he suggested other options that were more economical for target shooting, but the buyer knows what he wants. We do all the paperwork, do the background, he passes. He just kind of walked straight out and that was the last we saw. Two officers from the Windsor area were there and then a local, like a Connecticut ATF agent. We had to go through all the stuff, try to figure out the day of sale.

And there they find it, a bill of sale for a Sig Sauer rifle the name of the purchaser Nathan Carmen And that became an incredible aha moment for investigators and potentially the smoking gun in this case After the discovery at shooters outpost Nathan is asked again about owning any guns and since because I Just wasn't feeling safe at home, I did buy a shotgun. You did buy a shotgun? That's correct.

Any other purchases of a firearm at any time? No. And that wasn't ever volunteered or brought up until investigators found this out-of-state bill of sale and then confronted Nathan with it. And how did he respond? Well, he acknowledged that he had bought this weapon. When asked about it, he said he lost it.

And he didn't know where the gun was. That had to be really a red flag for you all. It was. Most people don't lose those firearms or any firearm. But yeah, you don't normally hear, I don't know where it is. And there was no report of him, you know, making a report that it was stolen, lost, etcetera. So what are you thinking at this point? You've been kind of

connecting these dots. Well, it gets better. There was an hour of at least one hour of unaccounted time during what Mr Chocolos was shot that Nathan put an account for his time. Linda arrives at this home depot parking lot at 3 a.m. where she and Nathan are set to meet up to go fishing. But Nathan is nowhere to be found. You left your house on about three, and we know you got to Glassbury Basin, your own words,

on about four. Why would it take an hour to travel, and I'm guessing 20 something miles, at the rate of 65 miles an hour? It's just mathematically not possible. On or around three? I don't know about three. So perhaps after.

But this security footage taken outside Nathan's apartment complex shows him leaving at 2 57 a.m. Linda tries calling her son three times but his phone appears to be turned off. He finally calls her back at 4 1 a.m. Did you think you were closing in on an arrest? I thought so. Yes. I have to ask you straight up. Were you involved in your grandfather's death? Did you count? Absolutely not.

No. No. But that potential smoking gun, the Sig Sauer rifle, is still missing. Despite a months-long, extensive search of Nathan's apartment, the Chocolosa State, and surrounding areas for that crucial piece of evidence, it's nowhere to be found. And I think that's exactly what they were pinning their entire case on, was that murder weapon. Had they found it and connected it to Nathan, then Nathan would have been in

handcuffs. And so law enforcement was directed to keep working to try to build the case. This had to be frustrating. It just tears at you because you know what, you think you've got it. The family had put up a huge billboard on Interstate 91, you know, and coming and going to work every day I would see that. I would see Mr. Chakalos' face. I would see, you know, reward money for information. Even though Nathan is under a cloud of suspicion,

he's still a free man, but feels like he's an outcast in his own community now. So he takes a portion of his inheritance that had been given to him by his grandfather, and he leaves the state. He travels to Vermont, and he buys an historic farmhouse, and he also bought a boat. Nathan buys a 31-foot fishing boat,

formerly called the Chicken Pox. He plans another fishing outing with his mom, Linda, who has stood by him throughout all the accusations. And Linda is very excited about that opportunity, but also very concerned, because she knows that her son is not an experienced fisherman or an experienced boater. Linda tells friends that the plan was to

fish off the coast of Block Island and head back the next morning. She was so concerned that she had a text message conversation with people ashore. And that's a smart thing to do, to let people know what your plans are. So she went out of the way to give them information in case something happened. Yes, indeed. When Linda fails to check in, her friends start to worry. Two of her best friends reach out to authorities and say, something has happened.

We need your help. At first we were like, okay, hopefully it's just they're overdue and they're going to come back to shore. But after several days elapsed, authorities searched Nathan's home and vehicle and found some alarming items. We start thinking that he may have intent to either harm himself and his mother or both of them. How did you get word that something had gone wrong with that? My cousin Charlene called me and told me that they were missing.

And I said, I told her not to go on that boat. Here is Nathan in a 31 foot aluminum boat with his mother who's got no experience boating. And he thinks that he's the master fisherman or the master boat. Or does he think this is the perfect place to kill his mother? Because in the middle of the ocean,

nobody can hear you scream. But what really happened on that boat? Nathan Carman answers tough questions under oath. How often did you lie to the Windsor Police Department? There was one inaccurate. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Scaring out at that open water, probably wondering what happened to my mother, or thinking,

did I just get away with murder? His mother is still missing and feared dead. And the question becomes, what happened? Everybody wants to know what happened. I didn't know if she had been dragged down with the ship. Neither of us had been wearing life vests. The media coverage was huge. I'm just asking you to defend yourself against these people who are saying that

you did something to your boat that would make it sink. We're done for this evening, period. He was shooting himself in the foot on national TV. It is absolutely unfair for the police to use the tragedy that happened to my mother and I as an opportunity to try to nail me for a murder that I didn't commit. Nathan's grandfather, John Chocolas,

had been shot to death three years prior to the disappearance of Linda Carmen. And once those connections were made, the story amplified. You were convinced that Nathan had killed his grandfather. Correct. And now you're convinced that he killed his own mother? It's a story about greed and heartless brutality. Mr. Chaklis was found in a bedroom on the upper part of the house in his bed, shot several times in the head.

We have to treat everyone as a possible suspect. Anyone could have done this. But my sisters had told me they suspected Nathan. And that just totally blew me out of the water. The daughters of John Trakoulos got very angry that there was really nothing happening with the case. They couldn't find the murder weapon. They hadn't arrested Nathan Carman.

And it's just getting wilder and wilder. Could a family be this burdened to have a second catastrophic event? I didn't know. This is slowly starting to move from a missing persons case to something other than a missing persons case. It's been three years since John Chakalos' murder, with no charges ever filed. Now, the family is facing yet another tragedy, as Chakalos' grandson Nathan Carmen's boat sinks on a fishing trip,

with Nathan's mom Linda missing and presumed drowned. We're gonna head out on a ride on the open water to get a better idea of what happened out here. I met up with Dave Farrell, a maritime lawyer for Nathan's Boat Insurers. So let's pick up with when the Coast Guard gets involved in this. They had a lot of vessels out here, they had a lot of aerial searches, and they were really crisscrossing an area that eventually was 64,000 square miles. That's a big coverage area. Yeah, the state of Georgia.

And then two days later, this is a big shock. The Orient Lucky finds a life raft 106 miles south of Mathis Vineyard, and in it is Nathan Carman alone. With his crew already snapping pictures and recording video, the ship's captain is alerted to a life raft in the water. After spotting Nathan Carman and his life raft at sea, I sounded the alarm for our crew to prepare for the rescue efforts, and we were ready to rescue him. They threw him a life ring,

and he grabbed it with his hands. He got dragged up toward the hull of the ship. He was able to push off the side of the ship with his outstretched hand, and he was able to climb up the gangway He got onto the ladder. We pulled the ladder up on board When Nathan gets aboard the Orient Lucky the kid looked like Aquaman there was no physical distress in His well-being he wasn't dehydrated. He was not hypothermic

The captain of the Orient Lucky doesn't see anything wrong with him. This is astounding in his well-being. He wasn't dehydrated. He was not hypothermic. The captain of the Orient Luck, he doesn't see anything wrong with him. This is astounding. I got the call from my supervisor that he'd been located and recovered. I was shocked and I was thankful. I was happy that there was a survivor,

but it was also concerning because Linda hadn't been recovered. When I found out that Linda was lost at sea and I knew she wasn't coming back, it was just, you know, I just had flashbacks of us growing up and just, you know, the good times that we did have. And then of course, the guilt and the regret that I had of how I treated her in the end.

You just don't think that you're gonna lose somebody so suddenly like that. We receive a call from the Coast Guard that Nathan was picked up by a merchant vessel in the shipping lanes in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. First thing you say is, okay, where's Linda? Linda's not with him, just Nathan. Back on land with his lawyer present, Nathan's interviewed by Alfred Bucco, an investigator with the South Kingston Rhode Island Police

Department. This audio's never been broadcast before. I just went in there and said, Nathan, tell me what happened. We went out to Block Canyon. It was light, but the sun wasn't over the horizon yet. And we started trolling. Okay. And I heard a strange noise coming from the engine compartment. So I opened up the hatch in front of the pilot house and I saw that there was a lot of water in the building.

He went and shut down the engine and moved aft to where his mother was. He said he told his mom to reel in the lines. How did he describe what was happening with the commotion? He said to his mother, only one thing during this calamity, and it was reel in the lines. And she said only one thing in return. Okay I will. At that point, he went up into the wheelhouse and he says that he started moving emergency gear up to the bow. He wasn't quite ready to abandon ship but he

wanted to be ready. I didn't realize we were sinking. I knew there was water in the bilge. I knew there was a lot of water because it was already up to that level. Just why I wanted to bring the safety stuff as a precaution. But I thought I was going to find the problem and fix it. The third time that he's been in the wheelhouse and failed to radio, he's walking forward to the bow and all of a sudden, in a split second, the boat sinks. Boats don't sink that fast. No. And it sank quickly.

Like, immediately it was out of sight. And that's how he says he never saw his mother again. He calls for his mother throughout the rest of the day. And he said upon nightfall, you know, he gave up trying to search for her and he went to sleep and then drifted through the Atlantic Ocean until he was located. So let's get back to you to your mother. You talked to her you know all the time you know you go out fishing twice a week. How would you describe you

know your relationship with her? Is it good? I don't see the relevance to this particular incident here. I think her. You know what? I don't see the relevance to this particular incident here. I concur. I think this interview is over. Thank you, though. After the interview is over, from our perspective, we're like, okay, this isn't just a missing persons investigation. We may be dealing with maybe a homicide.

Captain Heng Dong observed Nathan walking the deck of the Orient Lucky for hours at a time by himself staring out at that open water, probably wondering what happened to my mother or thinking, did I just get away with murder? And soon, the whole world will hear from Nathan Carmen in his own words. She had always been kind of reluctant about safety. I guess she had good reason to be. Okay, Martin, let's try one. Remember, big. You got it.

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I don't know what's going on. How old are you? You should get a lawyer. You have no idea how those people hurt this girl. The Hulu Original Series, Good American Family. New episodes Wednesdays streaming on Hulu. New developments in that mystery at sea rescued after eight days in a life raft. Searchers had given up.

Nathan Carmen and his mother went fishing last week. He survived the ordeal, but his mother didn't make it. Now authorities are trying to figure out what happened. The media coverage was huge. This was a story that made headlines around the country. Initially, Nathan avoids the media, but eventually agrees to an interview with then ABC News correspondent, Lindsay Janis, in 2017. At his suggestion, they meet at a park near his home.

So take me through that evening. You met at the Marina in Rhode Island, and then what? Oh, we met at the Marina in Rhode Island, and we had a bait bait which we got on board and as we were heading out into the harbor and asked her a couple times in the past, will you go to the canyons with me and she had always been kind of reluctant about safety and I guess that's, I guess she had good reason to be. While Nathan and Linda were still missing and the Coast Guard scouring the Atlantic,

investigators back on land began searching through their vehicles here at this marina, looking for clues that might help in the search. It looked like he had been somewhat almost living out of his truck or sleeping in his truck. We found some receipts from different marine stores. Items purchased at area marinas in the hours before the fateful voyage included a rock-type anchor

that would never have worked for Nathan's boat and then some lengths of chain. They were curious purchases. But there was also a bucket of eels that was in Nathan's truck. That stood out to me because eels are often used as bait when fishing for striped bass. And if you left the dock and didn't take your bait, what are you using for bait if you're going fishing? Nathan tells us the same story he told police that his mom had been concerned about safety ahead of the boat trip. And I want to stress that it wasn't an argument

because I want to stress that it was not an argument. She had always been kind of skittish. We're stopping right here with that question. Oh, okay. But why not reach out for help? The Coast Guard said there was no Mayday call. They had a radio and there was also an EPIRB, which is an emergency position indicating radio beacon

on the boat, like someone needs to be medivaced or when you know you're sinking. But I didn't know that we were sinking until we sank. Nathan said that there was a lot of commotion going on and the water was being taken on in here. So where would his mom have been when all of this is happening? Right where you are. So she would have been right back in this area? Yes. But they're not speaking? I mean and she doesn't know that they're going down? Nathan has excellent line of sight on her the whole time,

and yet he says he never saw her afterwards. At that point, I didn't know if she had been dragged down with the ship. Neither of us had been wearing life vests. I assumed that if she had been on the surface, that she would have been calling out to me and I would have been able to find her. According to Nathan, days go by and he huddles on the life raft keeping a lookout for rescuers. I was looking out at the horizon for other ships or for

helicopters when conditions were good. When the waves were high, because they got to like 13 feet and they were breaking waves at a few points, a few days. That must have been terrifying. Yes. But to some, Nathan's claim of drifting for over a week in rough seas before being rescued defies belief.

The initial videos showing this guy walking up the gangway of the ship without any great problem, he seemed to be just fine. You would be in dire straits after, you know, five or six days. If you laid on that couch for eight days and you got up to go to the bathroom, your legs would be wobbly because you haven't used them. At the same time that Nathan and Linda's vehicles were searched at the docks, police in Vermont were conducting a search of Nathan's house, which was under construction.

The investigators find, you know, modems, SIM cards, a few other things. The one thing they don't find is a computer. Whatever computer he was using to conduct his online purchases has disappeared. Another item that was seized during the search was a lengthy letter that Nathan had written to an unknown priest that described his relationship and his view of his mother. My mother's bullying, calling me a quitter, a stuck up snob who thinks he is a king,

and a piece of shit basically characterized my childhood. One night though, I went to bed imagining myself as essentially a master of my own hell, enjoying an inflicting grave bodily suffering on other people. So, yeah. After his interview with Alfred Buco, Nathan has all but stopped talking to the police and is never questioned about the letter or his missing computer. Reporter Lindsay Janis is one of the few people he is willing to talk to.

I know I wasn't responsible for anything that resulted from the boat sinking. I know I wasn't responsible for my mom's death. You were convinced that Nathan had killed his grandfather? Correct. And now you're convinced that he killed his own mother? Yes. That's pretty dark stuff. If the interview hadn't already made Nathan's story seem a little fishy, the follow-up was even more eye-opening. If I did not cause my mother's death, we're done here this evening. If you have nothing to hide, there's no...

there shouldn't be a problem answering the questions. I'm Dave. Oh, hi Dave. Nice to meet you. Hi, how are you? I'm Matt. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, Matt. Thanks so much for taking us out. Initially, when everybody else was scratching their heads and wondering, wow, this poor guy, what happened to his mom?

For the average person out there who's looking at this and taking it at face value, folks who know the water, like you do, had your doubts. Absolutely, people had doubts about this story from the beginning. With Linda Carmen presumed lost at sea, her reportedly tumultuous relationship with her son Nathan was under renewed scrutiny. He sits down with 20- 2020 for a second interview,

which now holds new significance. If someone said that you did not get along with your mother, that you did not like her, is there any truth to that at all? No, there's not any truth to that. Our relationship had grown from where it had been. We did have a challenging relationship at one point in my life. But she was the closest person in the world to me

after my grandfather passed. Will you inherit all of what your mother had? That's something that I can't comment on at this time. But unbeknownst to Nathan, his mom has decided not to leave him any inheritance. She even records a video message obtained exclusively by 2020 explaining that he won't be getting her house. Hey, big guy.

I guess if you're watching this, you're watching this. I want to explain why I did what I did and why my will is stated the way it is. I feel that when you moved out, you took everything that was of value to you and everything you wanted. That's my feeling. And in her written last will and testament, dated three years before she disappeared, Linda explicitly excludes Nathan as a beneficiary. By now, more details of John Chakalos' death and the subsequent investigation have risen to the surface.

Initially, the media was unaware that Nathan's grandfather, John Chakalos, had been shot to death in his bed three years prior to the disappearance of Linda Carmen. And once those connections were made, the story amplified. It wasn't a bittersweet rescue story anymore. It was something potentially much more devious. So, at what point in your life would you say that you became really close with your grandfather? Here's where I have a bit of an issue. My understanding was we were going to be sitting down and we were going to be talking about

survival at sea. Yeah, the raft is my next bit, but we did explain that we need to hear about your whole life leading up to this incident. How can people know who Nathan is if we don't tell them? What was your relationship like with your grandfather? I'm not talking about my relationship with my grandfather or with...if you want to ask me any more questions, I'm not lying, we're done here. Can you tell me more about what your grandfather did?

He was a big figure in this part of the country. That's not what this interview is about. He gets really defensive if people pry a little bit too much. And the way that he shut her off on so many questions and wouldn't cooperate, he was shooting himself in the foot on national TV. Since we spoke a week ago, there's been a lot of speculation.

People are suspicious of you. What do you want to say to those people who are saying something about his story that just isn't adding up. I'm not aware that those people exist. There are suspicions about the boat trip. Since we last got together a week ago... I've not said the way it happened. I'm just asking you to defend yourself against these people who are saying that you did something to your boat that would make it happened. I'm just asking you to defend yourself against these people who are saying that you did something to your boat that

would make it sink. That's not true. Nathan had never been interviewed at length by a network or by a reporter. So this was something new to Nathan. And I think Nathan thought it was going to go one way when it certainly went another way. Was there an issue with the boat that needed to be fixed?

No, there were... I... We're done. Nathan, I'm trying to give you an opportunity to speak out against these allegations that have been made. The only way that I can speak out against them is to say what actually happened, and that's what I've been trying to do. Another thing that's happened since we last got together, police searched your mom's home.

Yeah, we're done for this evening, period. We're done here. We're not trying to make you uncomfortable. We're trying to give you an period. We're done here this evening. We're not trying to make you uncomfortable. We're trying to give you an opportunity to answer some of these allegations. We're done here this evening. If you have nothing to hide, there shouldn't be a problem answering the questions. He walked out. He walked out of the interview.

Only to come back. Police never arrested you for the murder of your grandfather. Do you think it is unfair that people are bringing that up and talking about that now? It is absolutely unfair for the police to use the tragedy that happened to my mother and I as an opportunity to try to nail me for a murder that I didn't commit. Can you understand when people see that you were the last person to see two people alive? They see that and they say you are either

the most unlucky man alive or you had something to do with those two deaths. What do you say to that? I say that there's no relationship. Later that month, Nathan holds a memorial service for his mom. It's sparsely attended by some of her friends. Linda's sisters are notably absent. Now, Linda hasn't even been declared dead yet. Nobody in his family is willing to go because many of us in his family believe that Nathan is truly the culprit.

I'm very grateful to the friends and family who attended in memory of my mom. Nathan you've been through so much. How have you been these last several weeks? It's been very difficult. We had no boat. We had no body. But as in any investigation, there's always evidence that can be recovered. It's just a matter of making sure that you know where to look. It's all hands on deck at that point to try and uncover the truth.

As with the death of John Chalkalos, according to investigators, there isn't enough evidence to charge Nathan with a crime. But in a twist of fate, a seemingly innocuous insurance claim for the sunken boat is about to take the saga of Nathan Carman in an unexpected direction. Some of these strange occurrences

maybe could be chalked up to an inexperienced fisherman, a guy who's panicking. You know I spent a lot of time with Nathan. I think he was cold calculating and had this whole story planned out to explain the disappearance of his mother and the sinking of the vessel. The idea that he drifted for a week in that life raft just didn't hold water for you. Not even for a second. The Nathan Carmen case was incredibly explosive. A young man is plucked out of the ocean. That just conjures up all of these images of, say, Tom Hanks in Castaway. Author Casey Sherman has spent the last two and a half years researching the case for his new book, Blood in the Water.

The story is so complex, and it has so many layers to it. Not only do you have one potential murder, but it's the story about a family and how wealth can corrupt. As investigators continue digging into Nathan Carmen's story of being lost at sea, he takes action, filing an insurance claim for $85,000 to recoup the loss of his boat, the Chicken Pox. to recoup the loss of his boat, the Chickenpox. It happened very promptly, and that indicated to me that this guy's really serious. The insurance company is not going to pay Nathan. In fact, they are going to take Nathan to court.

Nathan also didn't back down. We filed our suit to deny insurance coverage. We were in for a fight. We came away with the distinct impression that almost everything he said to us was a lie. There were holes in every aspect of his story. Holes in his story and his boat. Here at this marina where Nathan's odyssey began, fellow boaters noticed odd behavior in him the day before that fateful trip. It kind of caught my eye when I saw him leaning over the back and drilling two holes in the

transom of the boat. I asked him, what are you doing? That's why he told me he says he's taking the trim tabs off. Trim tabs are stabilization devices that help lift the boat up higher on the water. Nathan admits to removing them, leaving holes in his boat, but says he patched them up with a marine putty. I patched the holes. They seemed to be well patched. And at the time when my mom and I went out, I felt that those, that one, I knew those holes were above the water line, and two, I felt that they were securely patched. The idea that he was patching up those holes,

that putty, the patching didn't work? It wouldn't work. My theory is that he was trying to make it look like he was deliberately altering the boat in a dangerous fashion. So that maybe it looked like he made a mistake. He very calculating, he wanted people to be able to point to, oh, no wonder the boat sank. Attorney Dave Farrell represented Nathan's boat insurance companies and has looked into Nathan's account of what happened for years.

Nathan's story is that his boat started taking on water, but he failed to put out a distress call because he didn't think the boat was sinking. One would think then maybe he would call out for help, the May Day situation, right? Did he do that? No, and he had ample opportunity because each of the times that he went into the wheelhouse to carry gear forward, he was within arm's length of the microphone

for his VHF radio, a good one. This is where the emergency equipment is, right here? Yeah, right here. A microphone within arm's reach. And he came in here three times to get survival gear and bring it up to the bow. So he was within arm's length three times he could have picked it up. All of these things sound pretty odd. Maybe you can chalk them up to panic and inexperienced fishermen, but you would have to have hard

evidence to really show that he wasn't where he should have been. I got an oceanographer to assess whether it was possible for him to drift in a life raft to where the Orient Lucky picked him up seven days later. And was it? Absolutely impossible. Physically impossible. I looked at drifting buoys. I looked at historical data. I looked at thermal images of the Gulf Stream rings.

All of these different systems showed the currents going westward. And Nathan claimed he drifted eastward. And that did not make any sense. And Nathan's aunts aren't buying his alleged fish tales either. New twists to the story making national headlines involving Nathan Carmen. They file what is known as a slayer petition, which prevents a person from inheriting property from someone they murdered. Nathan Carmen's aunts do not want him to inherit that money and they say essentially

profit off of two deaths they believe he caused. When Nathan walks into court, he's actually got a suit and he's cleaned up, he's shaving. Good afternoon, your honor, Nathan Carmen appearing on my own behalf. He looks like a young aspiring law student. The loss of my mom has been extremely difficult for me so I can sympathize with petitioners in that respect. He ended up taking depositions. He ended up going into court and arguing motions. I'll say that some of the petitioners had an awfully substantial moment.

And I had very, very little. He ended up putting up his own defense. You saw him sort of tell the truth. But in this deposition, obtained by 2020, it's Nathan in the hot seat. This is the deposition of Nathan Carmen. Did you have a close relationship with your mother, Linda Carmen? I would say that I did, yes.

When asked to respond to claims that he lied to police during their interviews with him in 2013, Nathan clams up. How often did you lie to the Windsor Police Department? There was one inaccurate. I'm pleading the fifth. Pleading the fifth as to lying to the Windsor Police Department after your grandfather is dead.

Is that correct? That's what he said. Okay. Nathan pleads the fifth 81 times during this deposition. I plead the fifth. I plead the fifth. I plead the fifth. And I plead the fifth.

Meaning he declines to answer questions to avoid potentially incriminating himself. I plead the fifth. That's damaging to Nathan, I think, in the public's mind. Who takes the fifth? You know, mobsters take the fifth. Gang lords take the fifth. Not somebody that's completely innocent. Nathan Carman caught a legal break today after a judge tossed out the lawsuit his aunts had

filed to keep him from collecting millions of dollars from his grandfather's estate. The judge dismisses the case after he rules John Chakalos wasn't a resident of New Hampshire. The newspapers reported it as a tremendous win for Nathan. I wasn't too troubled by it. Nathan is off the hook for his family lawsuit, but his insurance case is looming. And investigators have him in their sight. Pieces of the puzzle had started to come together. There were too many inconsistencies.

There's no such thing as a perfect crime. pieces of the puzzle had started to come together. There were too many inconsistencies. There's no such thing as a perfect crime. Rapper Sean Diddy Combs was a kingmaker. He had wealth, fame, and power. What's up, welcome to New York! Until it all came crashing down. Federal investigators raiding two homes owned by hip hop mogul Sean Diddy Combs. I'm Brian Buckmeyer, an ABC News legal contributor.

As Diddy heads to trial, we trace his remarkable rise and fall and what could be next. Listen to Bad Rap, the case against Diddy, a new series from ABC Audio. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. [♪ music playing, fades out, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music ends, music What's happening? Rebellion begins. How many bodies are you gonna throw in the fire? When is enough enough? When there's no one left to fight. Where is June Osborn? Rise up and fight for your freedom! The Hulu Original Series, The Handmaid's Tale. Final season premieres April 8th, streaming on Hulu.

streaming on Hulu. Nathan Carmen and his insurer head to court in Providence, Rhode Island, battling it out in what would be Nathan's biggest legal challenge yet. Was Nathan at fault for the sinking of his boat, or was he owed a payday? Nathan Carmen and his lawyer saying absolutely nothing. Heading into Providence federal court this morning for the first day of the civil trial against Carmen. He's got everything to lose here.

If the court determines that he is negligent in his mother's death, that can open up the potential for criminal charges. Nathan at times was very agitated during the trial but he was also very active, always leaning over and having conversations with his attorney. He was right in the in the thick of things. He takes the stand, sticking to his story of what happened on that boat. What was he like on the stand? He is very articulate when he wants to be, very exacting, but also very evasive. Nathan had no emotion when he testified. That may be because he is on the autism spectrum.

And he talked about his mother in a way that she was more of a nuisance than she was a help to him while that boat was going down. The judge asked him, what's going on with your mother during all this time? And Nathan's peculiar answer was, my mother was part of the problem rather than the solution to a sinking boat.

With the case now in the judge's hands, Nathan talks to the media outside the courthouse. This isn't about money. It's an $85,000 claim. I almost feel like I have a responsibility to my mom to make sure that the truth comes out. At the end of the trial, the judge rules that Nathan was negligent with regard to the sinking of the chickenpox. That was a small victory for me because at least a little bit of justice was

prevailing through it all. The civil case acted as the de facto criminal case. FBI investigators, Coast Guard investigators, attorneys, prosecutors, they all had front row seats. Now a transition to its house in Vermont. Pieces of the puzzle had started to come together and had started to paint a picture for us that this was in fact a criminal act. There were too many inconsistencies. There were too many things that just didn't add up. It became very, very clear that Nathan had committed a crime on the high seas. We don't have a body, we don't have a boat, so it's a very, very difficult case to try to prove.

The grand jurors have to decide, is there enough evidence to proceed and indict? It took several years, but Nathan Carman is now charged with killing his mother. Nathan agrees to meet with investigators, but has no clue what's about to happen. Nathan was surprised when he was advised that he was under arrest for the murder of Linda Carmen. It was like something out of the golden age of piracy. Nathan was charged with murder on the high seas. According to an indictment, Carmen devised a scheme to defraud his grandfather's estate and to obtain money from the trust.

And the murders were part of this scheme. However, the indictment doesn't charge Nathan with the murder of John Chakalos. Medical records. school records. Nathan hires defense attorney Marty Mannella. Marty Mannella is a long time, very bull dogged litigator and when he met Nathan, he not only found a client, but he found a son. He had literally no support. That was probably the hardest thing that Nathan had to endure, the fact that he had no one.

But he had us. He really had us. And I had never in 50 years of practicing law had that kind of relationship with a client. Never. As he's escorted into federal court for arraignment, cameras catch Nathan defiantly proclaiming his innocence. Not guilty! Before pleading not guilty to the court as well.

During Nathan's detention hearing, his aunts read a letter to the judge saying that if you let him go they would be in fear for their life. I was very relieved that Nathan was gonna be put behind bars. If Nathan was not arrested and not contained, I really think he would have gone on a murder spree. For years, Nathan had lived in solitude in Vermont. He had never threatened anyone. So to me, it was unusual that they were in fear of what. The court sides with his aunts and denies Nathan's bail,

setting a trial date for October 2nd, 2023. Marty and his team get to work. It was a huge undertaking and it was a daily, seven day a week thing. It really became part of our lives. Nathan was incredibly active in his defense. Every waking hour when he wasn't in his jail cell, he was at the prison library, poring over legal books. His case was his whole life. He wanted his day in court. He wanted to clear his name. The day of June 15th, 2023,

The day of June 15th, 2023 came as a shock. They were just a few months away from trial. We've learned Nathan Carmen has died while awaiting a trial for his mother's death. I got a call in the morning. Nathan was gone and And he hung himself. And I just cried. Nathan took his own life. He wasn't depressed. He wasn't despondent.

We were all looking forward to that October date so that we could have this trial. Despite all the family court battles and accusations, Nathan's aunts come to pay their respects at his funeral. I attended Nathan's funeral. Myself and my sisters were there. I was very sad. Nathan's attorney paid for the funeral,

paid for his cremation, and then gave his eulogy. paid for his cremation, and then gave his eulogy. They gave to the child, sensitive, caring, not unfilial, and loving-hand young man. Sleep with the angels, my dear friend. It was probably the toughest thing I ever did, because it was like losing a family member. It may sound crazy, you lose cases, you lose clients. But you don't have that kind of contact that we had with this person.

I think he is both a victim and a villain in his own story. Nathan Carmen remains an enigma. The criminal charges against Nathan were dismissed. So in the eyes of the law, Nathan is an innocent man still today. Months after Nathan Carmen's funeral, a Connecticut judge officially declares his mom Linda deceased, seven years after she disappeared at sea. The Windsor Police Department tells 20-20 that John Chakalos' murder case is still active. What I'd like people to remember about my dad, he was kind, he was loving. He'd give you a hard time, but he always did it out of love. Linda was so kind and generous to her friends and the people around her.

And I remember all the good times that Linda and I had. What do you want people to know and remember about your uncle, John? He's a guy that did it himself. I mean, I loved that guy, you know, and he loved me. How much do you miss him all these years later? Every day. You know, we went to the cemetery today.

Nathan's got a stone there next to my uncle. Why is he buried there? There's no stone there for my cousin Linda. Where's her stone? Nathan should be remembered as a troubled soul. I'm happy, I'm relieved that Nathan was buried in the family plot next to my dad. Nathan the child belongs where he is.

He needs to rest. That's our program for tonight. Thanks for watching. I'm Deborah Roberts. And I'm David Muir from all of us here at 2020 and ABC News. Good night. On April 11th, the amateur arrives in IMAX. I want to find and kill the people who murdered my wife. Critics rave, the amateur is a tense, unpredictable ride. You're just not a killer, Charlie. Train me. That constantly finds new and inventive ways to up the stakes.

The first one you kill, you let the other ones know you're coming. I want them all. Academy Award winner Rummy Malik. And Academy Award nominee, Lawrence Fishburne. The amateur, maybe an appropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters and IMAX April 11th. Get tickets now. This is Deborah Roberts.

To hear the backstory to this episode, join me for the 2020 After Show. Every Monday, I'm going to talk with correspondents, producers, some of those folks behind the scenes who bring you these stories. And you're going to hear bonus tape that's not necessarily included in the episode. That's 2020 The After Show, Mondays in your 2020 podcast feed.