20/20 - John Lennon: His Life, Legacy, Last Days

Episode Date: November 14, 2024

John Lennon's close friends and colleagues provide insight into his life and lasting legacy; radio reporters talk about the last interview John Lennon did with them the day he died. Originally aired 10/16/20 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

This is Deborah Roberts. Welcome to the 2020 True Crime Vault. Each week we reach back into our archives and bring you a story we found unforgettable. He broke her teeth. He broke her bones. Poisons that you could use that would be undetectable. Oh my goodness! What have you done? Take a listen. John Lennon was a brilliant, genius songwriter. He was one of those magical people emblematic of an entire age.

A working class kid from Liverpool. He was one of the originals of this century, no question about it. The Beatles, it was a musical revolution. He was a rebel, he was a radical, he became an activist for peace. He said a lot of things that a lot of people believed in. It just spoke to a generation in a different way than anyone else has been spoken to before. Some of us had a healthy relationship with his celebrity, but there are others that felt like they owned him. Who got shot?

John Lennon. John Lennon was shot and killed tonight in New York City. An unspeakable tragedy. I said, you realize what you have done here? And he said, I killed myself. He said, but I'm John Lennon. People came out here singing Beatles ballads. They just want to try to feel close to the man whom they say touched their lives. That's how much love people had for John Lennon. His music made

our good times better. His music made our bad times at least livable. If he hadn't dreamed so beautifully, it wouldn't hurt so much. Here we are, 40 years later, talking about this man and this man's music. My role in society, or any artist or poet's role, is to try and express what we all feel. Not as a preacher, not as a leader, but as a reflection of us all. John, he was always a person that was ahead of the curve. His lyrics were always about the truth.

I asked him at one point what his secret was for writing great songs. He said, you write the truth and you make it rhyme. It sort of dawned on me that love was the answer when I was younger. The first expression of it was a song called The Word. called The Word. The Word is love. The Word is love. It seemed like the underlying theme to the universe or to everything that was worthwhile. Who was John Lennon?

One time John Lennon was probably the most famous rock and roll musician, maybe the most famous artist in the world. Growing up I remember seeing The Beatles on Ed Sullivan and being totally stunned. I wanna hold your hand I wanna hold your hand The Beatles, who originated as a small-time act out of Liverpool, now have no rivals as the Kingpins of the teenage set. John Lennon formed and led and was the Beatles along with Paul McCartney and George Harrison and Ringo Starr. And here they are, fresh from their triumph with appearances in the United States.

You couldn't live your life through the 60s with the radio on, hanging out with your friends, and not know every Beatles song from beginning to end. What do you like about the Beatles anyway? Their music, and the way they dress, and their hair, and their looks. They look like girls to me. They do not.

They were the greatest band in history. They transformed rock music. They transformed pop culture. Beatlemania initially in the 1960s, this incontinent screaming of young women. Forty young ladies fainted, but authorities feel that some were playing possum, so that they might be lifted over the fence and thus be nearer their idols. The smart one would be John Lennon,

the cute one was Paul McCartney. The deep one would be George Harrison, and the cute one, number two, would be Ringo Starr. John was my favorite Beatle. He was the irreverent rock and roll guy. In a sense, looking back today, using different words, we would say he would be the punk guy from The Beatles. He was too intellectually good for Beatlemania.

This screaming, this wailing of adoration that greeted them wherever they went, completely sickened him. John was so offended that they weren't listening to the Beatles music. In 1964, the band even starred in a film that made fun of the hysteria of Beatlemania, A Hard Day's Night. We were involved in so many things and we were putting out so much work and we were

making movies, making public appearances, performing at shows and all traveling the world and doing all that. There was no time to reflect. It was an empty, hollow experience for John. At the peak of his popularity, he's writing and singing a song like Help. It's our latest record. The Beatles promoted their album Help

on the TV show Blackpool Night Out. Help, I need somebody. Help, not just anybody. Help, you know I need someone. Help. Help is a cry for help. is a cry for help. He was a massive insecurity. No matter how famous he became, how much people showed they loved and adored him,

he never felt loved, he never felt secure. He thought he wasn't loved as a child because his mother had given him over into the care of his mother's older sister, John's Aunt Mimi. His Aunt Mimi was the force in his life. When John's mother died, John was 16. Years later, he found that Pop's stardom didn't fill the void. It didn't ease the pain that defined his life. He found meaning and purpose in Yoko.

Yoko Ono was an artist from New York who was living in London at the time. He met Yoko first in 1966. He would fall in love. He was married already to Cynthia. John was married early on, even when the Beatles started out. And his wife had a son named Julian. That he would fall in love with a Japanese artist and already be married, have a kid.

It's hard to describe how radical that was in 68. John Lennon, he and his girlfriend Yoko Ono John, she's all about Cynthia's better now. That girl next to me just said Cynthia is better than her. Cynthia is John Lennon's wife. Yoko Ono is his girlfriend. Yoko Ono was a rebel and a troublemaker. He got licensed from her to be the person

he'd always wanted to be. The reason that Yoko had such an effect on him when they met was that Yoko said, you can be yourself. You don't have to say yes all the time. You can just do what you want if you want to do real art. John thought art was what Yoko did, collage, performance art, that kind of thing. It never occurred to John that a song like

Norwegian Wood was art, it was art. I once had a girl, oh should I say, she once had me. You've gone a long way from I wanna hold your hand to Eleanor Rigby. What direction are you trying to move your music? You know, we're just trying to move forward. And people seem to be trying to just sort of hold us back. The Beatles.

They had gotten together when they were very young. They had lived very intense lives together. And for creative reasons and for business reasons, these guys started pulling apart. The event is so momentous that historians may one day view it as a landmark in the decline of the British Empire. The Beatles are breaking up. Yoko Ono was initially vilified by Beatles fans.

They saw her as stealing away John Lennon, but Yoko Ono did not break up the Beatles. The Beatles broke up the Beatles. Some of the things people have said about you haven't been very kind lately. Does this get you down? It was a bit depressing the way they kept picking on Yoko, you know what I'm saying?

She was ugly and all the personal things like that, but I know she isn't, so... John and Yoko left England because the press was attacking Yoko so viciously. So they left to come to New York. And in New York they got a lot more respect. In the 1970s was the time of turmoil in New York. There was a lot of people out of work. But even with the shortages of money

and the lack of opportunity, it seemed, and the lack of jobs, it was a very exciting time. And it was a very creative time. In New York, it's a bit like London, only more so. And you're always hearing congas going on in the park all the time. It's like a festival going on. The hip hop developed, punk rock developed, disco developed,

all at the same time in different parts of the city coming together, bouncing off each other. Yoko had a lot of friends here who were artists, like Andy Warhol. Elton John and John had a long-standing relationship. He was tight with David Bowie as well. John loved New York, and New York, America, was freedom. People didn't run up the street and bother John Mignocco. They wouldn't bother him the way, you know,

Beatle Maniac kind of fanned him. But he was over the Beatles. In fact, one time one of the fans said to him, hey John, when are you going to get the Beatles back together? And John just looked at him and said, well, when are you going to go back to high school? You know, he was very proud of being in the Beatles, but that was something that he had done, and it was passed.

And like high school, you don't go back. You go forward. You do something else. He was happy to say hello. He loved his fans, and he loved New Yorkers. Some of us had a healthy relationship with him and his music and his celebrity. But there are others that didn't.

There are others that felt like they owned him. Peace now! Peace now! Peace now! Peace now! Politics was in the air those days, come on. You know, you couldn't avoid it. When John and Yoko arrived in New York, I think they were at their most political. Being artists, when we get into something, we get into it, you know what I mean? We want it to be right there, down on the front lines, you know? As we always said to everybody, with flowers, but still right down there. We want to go all the way with it. And I read somewhere that the war movement is over.

We had a way of coming up with simple lines, like, all we were saying is, give peace a chance. All we are saying is, give peace a chance. Everybody thinks that, but John gave people the words to express that. Give peace a chance was an anthem for those who believed in finding an alternative to war. The time has come for action. John was very vocal about his opposition to Richard Nixon. He made Nixon's enemies list. Nixon was hell-bent on deporting him, and it ruined his life for many years.

Almost destroyed his career. He came out of it miraculously, but it was a huge burden. All of these songs that he's writing, they're not the most melodic songs. They're protest songs, and the public is at best indifferent. The critics hate it, and I think John's really wounded by it. He finds himself in 72 having purged himself in many ways of his popularity. It was a very depressing time for him

and he had difficulty dealing with that. John had really become reckless inside their marriage. Yoko sent John away. He went to LA for some 18 months. John would call it the lost weekend. While John was in Los Angeles, it sounded like times were getting pretty wild out there. And we'd had some pretty wild times in New York and I knew that John could get out of hand when he drank a lot. There was Keith Moon, Harry, me, Ringo all living together in the house and we had

some moments folks, but it got a little near the nubble. That's when I realized, there's something wrong here. You know, this is crazy, man. He'd spent several months, really, for the first time in his life being what he thought of as a sort of carefree bachelor, but actually hating it really and pleading with Yoko to have him back. So then he went back to Yoko. and he went back to Yoko. One day I drove up to Central Park with John and Yoko.

It turned out that they were going to see the apartment at the Dakota for the first time. I think John liked the English Gothic castle kind of feeling of the place. You go to the Dakota, I don't want to say you're going to an ivory tower, but you are kind of removing yourself. It was one of the most well-known buildings. It was occupied by all very famous people. Lauren Bacall and Leonard Bernstein

and Roberta Flack and Judy Garland. The kind of place that people go to when quiet. The Dakota is the Dowager Queen Mother of apartment houses. It started out as the only large building on Central Park West. Gradually the city grew up, but the Dakota remained. It remained the most distinctive building

in the entire city. We all know that first impressions count, and first impression of the Dakota is its entrance, a two-story high archway, and beneath it a very elaborately designed wrought iron gateway.

You don't pass the Dakota and think it's an ordinary building. Going through Times Square, I see some guys selling the New York City t-shirts on the sidewalk. And I bought a few and I bought one and I gave it to John. It was the summer of 74 when we were taking pictures on the roof of his apartment and with the skyline all around us, I said, you still have that New York t-shirt that I gave you last year? And he said, yeah.

And I said, well, why don't you put it on then? We took a series of pictures. We never really expected that picture was going to be the one that he would be remembered by so well. He used to go into a coffee shop around the corner on 71st Street. The owner, he introduced him to me once. He says, oh, this is John Lennon.

He pretty much walked around the neighborhood and, you know, lived an open life there. And he wasn't concerned with security or anything. For the very first time since the very, very beginning of the Beatles, he doesn't have a record contract. He's free. And so he retreats back into the Dakota. He retreats back into family life.

He becomes a father. Sean was born on John's birthday on October 9th, 1975. He was born on October the 9th, which I was. So we're almost like twins. If I'm feeling depressed without him even seeing me, he sort of picks up on it. And he starts getting that way. So it's like I can no longer afford to have artistic depressions, which usually produce

a miserable song, but it was something I could use. I have a sort of more reason to stay healthy and bright. I can no longer wallow in it. I ran into him. He said, I'm giving Sean swimming lessons at the Y across the street. He said, I've been the house husband, and I've never enjoyed life more.

And the look of him when I saw him, he looked so different. He looked so calm and relaxed. As he would say, he found himself centered for the first time. When I was the producer of Channel 7 Eyewitness News, we had a reporter named Joel Siegel. He went to cover the Big Apple Circus to do a story on it, and while he was there, he noticed that in the audience was John Lennon, just sitting amongst all the ordinary people. And Joel went up to him and said, could I ask you a few questions? And very often celebrities say, nah, not now. With my family, speak to my agent.

And John said, sure. How does he like the circus, you think? How do you like the circus? I see. He's so excited. He can't say a word, you know. He's got a little bored of blording, you know. What's your favorite part of circus?

I like the clowns and the little dogs. Would you give it all up to run away and join the circus? I've already given it up. I haven't decided where to run, though. After spending five years raising his son, Sean, and basically being withdrawn from the business and withdrawn from the pressures of being in public life, John learned a lot about becoming an adult and learning that a sober life is actually a very rewarding life.

He sings about it, right? Watching the wheels. No longer riding on the merry-go-round I just had to let it go That's what he learned in those five years from 1975 to 1980. What it was like to have a relationship, what it was like to have a family. By late 1979, he has several songs. Take one of the new ones.

Yoko said to me, what I tell you now is top secret and you can't ever tell anyone. In the dry states of the Southwest, there's a group that's been denied a basic human right. In the Navajo Nation today, a third of our households don't have running water. But that's not something they chose for themselves. Can the Navajo people reclaim their right to water and contend with the government's legacy of control and neglect? Power, water, our beauty! Power, water, our beauty!

That's in the next season of Reclaimed, the lifeblood of Navajo Nation. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. Fifty years ago, a young woman named Karen Silkwood got into her car alone. She was reportedly on her way to deliver sensitive documents to a New York Times reporter. She never made it. And those documents she'd agreed to carry were never found. Do you think somebody killed her? There's no question in my mind.

Someone killed her that night. I think they were trying to stop her in order to get the documents. A new investigation into the life and death of America's first nuclear whistleblower. Listen to Radioactive, the Karen Silkwood Mystery from ABC Audio. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts. John was very comfortable being in New York. He liked New York. Bob Gruen was not only their favorite personal photographer, he was a friend. It was early spring day and we got some really great pictures.

There's a nice picture of them skipping up Central Park West. We went to Central Park. I remember John had this floppy hat on, like a hippie style. I got pictures of him and Yoko tucked underneath it. They were passing some flowers, little yellow flowers around the tree. So that was the kind of experience they could have in New York. So that was the kind of experience they could have in New York. I didn't really think about music at all. My guitar was sort of hung up behind the bed, literally.

And I don't think I took it down for five years. In 1980, the urge to make music hit again. John basically said that, like, suddenly he was possessed. He started hearing songs in his head and he was inspired. It came over me all of a sudden, love, I didn't know what came over me. Just suddenly, like, had, if you pardon the expression, diarrhea of creativity. if you pardon the expression, diarrhea of creativity. Yoko encouraged him to travel to Bermuda to evoke his creative chops

and travel by boat to Bermuda. I sailed with Newport to Bermuda in 2000 miles, seven days at sea for my first ocean trip. And it was the most fantastic experience I've ever had. A day out, terrible nor'easter hit. The crew was felled, one person after another, seasick. The captain just asked me, do you want to take over the wheel? I said, yes, I can. after another seasick. It's an amazing image. I mean, they tied John to the boat

so he doesn't blow off to sea. A couple of the waves had me on the knees, I was just hanging on with my hand on the wheel. I was in a major storm for six hours, driving my boat and keeping it on the course. I had the flyer, my wife, she was the champion. She challenged me to go out, I felt like biking. That was incredible, it's beautiful, because it won't go away, you can't change your mind. I mean, I stayed country on the move to Vietnam. I was tuned in on what had gone.

When he got down to Bermuda, he started to write. He recorded demo tapes. Take one of the new ones. Yoko, in the meantime, was in New York, writing one of the new ones. Yoko, in the meantime, was in New York writing some of her own songs. They would speak by telephone. Could I do it from the beginning? Okay.

They would share their songs together. It inspired me completely. As soon as she would sing something to me or play the cassette down the phone, within 10 or 15 minutes, I would suddenly get this song coming to me. Songs just began to fall upon him from the sky. I suddenly had all this material after not really trying but not not trying either for five years. One, two, three, four. One day I could hear the phone ringing.

I answered the phone and the voice came on and said, if you're interested in doing something really interesting and different, be at the 33rd Street Pier where the seaplanes land tomorrow at noon. Click. At the time, I was thinking I would really love to do something very interesting and mysterious. And I'll ride in a seaplane, sounds like fun too. The plane took off, flew over and down into where they had a mansion.

So I'd go inside and Yoko said to me, what I tell you now is top secret and you can't ever tell anyone. John wants to make another record and he wants you to produce it. She handed me an envelope, said for Jack's ears only, and the phone rang.

It was John. He said, listen to the cassettes that are in that envelope, and if you think it's crap, we won't even bother. But if you think it's good material, let's go into the studio and do it.

I went back and I listened, and I was amazed. good material, let's go into the studio and do it. I went back and I listened and I was amazed. Jack puts together a crack band that can really play. I made phone calls to great musicians, Tony Levin, Hugh McCracken, George Small, Andy Newmark. I received that phone call. I happened to be on a concert tour in Europe. I was excited. I was told not to share it with anyone.

And as soon as I hung the telephone up, I went to soundcheck. I told everybody in the band. I told John that we're going to bring in a wild card. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. I told John that we're gonna bring in a wild card. Earl Slick. Earl played with David Bowie. I walked in the control room and John gives me the old, it's good to see you again.

We had worked together once with David Bowie on Fame. And I didn't remember. So it was kind of a running joke through the recordings. In the middle of nowhere over the mic it'd be go, do you remember me now? The sessions were all fun. Earl didn't know any of the material. First day he came in, I put sheet music on Earl's stand.

Then you, McCracken, went over and turned the sheet music upside down. Might as well have been space alphabet. I didn't know. Earl couldn't read sheet music, but he sat there and made believe pretty soon everyone was in hysterics, because he was obviously, you know, bluffing. So we were off to a good start with Earl. We jammed a lot, we played a lot of Beatles songs, in between takes sometimes. And if a Beatles song came on the radio, everything stopped.

And he would tell us the story of how that song was made and what happened that day. His absolute love for the Beatles was so obvious to us. In fact, he said he loved them. They were his brothers. We worked for a month with Top Security. The reason that John didn't want to let anyone know that this record was being made was because he was very insecure about whether he still had the stuff after the five years that had gone by. There had been so much pressure building up by the late 1970s. What would happen if he came out and fell on his face?

What if nobody listened? What if nobody were to be excited by John Lennon's great return again? great return again. December 8, 1980 would be the day that changed everything. It's just unfathomable to think it's the last day of his life. He said, this is a story. It's a story about a man becoming 40 years old. It's halfway through his life. I'm not trying to compete with my old self or compete with the young new wave kids or anything like that that are coming on.

I'm not competing with anything. I'm trying to go back and enjoy it as I enjoyed it originally. And it's working. Things have changed. We're not adolescents playing rock and roll music. The songs are about where we are now. The songs are about where we are now. You know, I mean, I went right back to my roots. It's not going back to being Beatle John in the 60s,

it's being John Lennon. In the fall of 1980, while John and Yoko were still mixing the album, they released a single, Starting Over. It's that dialogue between men and women that he and Yoko were so intent on expressing. Scott Munie came on the radio and he played Starting Over. They were so happy hearing it on the radio, they started dancing. It's like we both are falling in love again. It'll be just like starting over.

It's fascinating that you have an artist like John Lennon who had so much success that would still get that rush of excitement of hearing their song come through and being played on radio. He didn't find happiness in front of a crowd of 10,000 people. He found it at home with Yoko and Sean and that's the person who emerged in 1980. But let's face the reality I've had the boyhood thing of being the Elvis and getting my own spot on the show. I want to be with my best friend, my best friend, my wife.

Who could ask for anything more? It wasn't the same John Lennon that had walked away from it in 75. A totally different John Lennon went back to the studio. He said, I don't care if they get it right now, they'll get it one day, they'll understand. Few artists have ever been as influential as John Lennon. This new album, Double Fantasy, how does it reflect John's attitude today? They were very happy that the record was out, that people liked it, that people liked them. They really seemed to be starting over. John and I sat on the floor for about two hours and that's when he was telling me how happy he was that I got the record, was going up to charts and was going to be popular.

WLS John Lennon. And then as the sun was coming up we left the studio probably 7, 38 o'clock in the morning and there's some pictures of them standing on the sidewalk on 44th Street, which oddly enough was the same place that I had taken pictures the very first night I had met him at the recording studio at the record plant. And I took some pictures there on the sidewalk. He said, okay, well, we'll see you later. December 8th, 1980 would be the day that changed everything.

It's just unfathomable to think it's the last day of his life. Part of the next phase of the print campaign is a Rolling Stone cover story. There's a lot of excitement in the air. Big photo shoot with Annie Leibovitz, arguably the leading female photographer in rock and roll, certainly, perhaps in popular culture. That portrait, I think to the essence of that relationship, I mean, John naked, like almost like a newborn, wrapped around Yoko.

For security, the ballast that's holding them together. And it's a daring, dangerous portrait, and it's beautiful. It's just gorgeous. So the interview team that arrived next after Annie Leibovitz left was RKO Radio. It was led by Dave Schoen. So we had arrived at the Dakota somewhere around noon. The visual of John opening up the door,

literally jumping up, leaping into the room, and extending his arms like, hey, folks, I'm here. I'm sorry I'm late. Yes, we're on, we're on dear. Hi, hello. What is it? Oh, it's a microphone. Just like this, you know. Hello, hello, testing, testing. Hello Dave, how are you?

He was just happy, happy to be alive and happy to think of the years that he had ahead of him with Sean and making music and with Yoko. And it was bubbling up from him. It was beautiful. And we feel like this is just the start now, you see. Trouble Fantasy, this is our first album. I know we worked together before, we even made albums together before, but we feel like this is the first album. I know we worked together before, we even made albums together before, but we feel like this is the first album. I feel like nothing happened before today. Right at the very beginning of the interview,

we talked about what John did on a daily basis. Sean was foremost in his mind. My life revolves around Sean. And John was the one with Sean, and making sure that he ate the right food and didn't watch the wrong things on TV and that sort of thing. So that was really pretty amazing to hear. Not what you would have expected. So you made this conscious decision to give yourself to your son, to the relationship.

And to learn from him too. I learned a lot from the child because they're not hypocrites and they're not phony. Then one day we were sort of lying down on the bed together and he just sat up and said, do you know what I want to be when I grow up? I said, no, what's that? He looked me right in the eye.

Just a daddy. Sean telling him that when he grew up, he wanted to be just a daddy, you know, which resonated with John. He caught me off guard there because I'm just a daddy. I said, you mean you don't like it that I'm working now, right? I'm going out a lot. He says, right.

Because I hadn't been in the studio for five years or whatever, so he's used to me being around all the time. We had spent three and a half hours together at the Dakota talking about everything from music to politics. I still believe in love, peace, I still believe in positive thinking. When I can do it, I'm not always positive, but when I am I try and project it. He had just turned 40. As he said, this is like he was opening up a new chapter.

That was the mood of the day and he could not have been more upbeat. I'm going into an unknown future, but we're still all here. We're still wild as life, there's hope. When I hear that quote play in my head, knowing what happened in the events of that day, it stops me in my tracks. MUSIC On December 8, 1980, John Lennon is continuing to do press for his album Double Fantasy with this RKO radio interview that was considerably extensive.

The end of the interview after the tape machine was turned off, we still managed to talk for a while about things and I had brought along a copy of Grapefruit, which was Yoko's book of poetry. They were, oh, let us autograph that, let us sign it for you. And of course, I was thrilled. Thank you. It's a pleasure.

Oh, it's a pleasure. I'm a fan of people, too. I like people to sign their books when they get them to me and all that. We packed up our gear, I like people to sign that book, so I'm gonna give them to me and all that. We packed up our gear, we went down to the front of the Dakota. And I remember stepping outside and being a little chilly.

The sun was out, but it was still kind of cold. Paul Gorich, who was an amateur photographer, taking photos. And all of a sudden, guess who shows up? John and Yoko walk up. They're waiting for their limo, and it's not there. And they're a little perturbed. The limo wasn't waiting for them to take them to the studio, as it should have been. And so John hung around the curbside for a while.

John walked out, he said, where are all my fans? It was a little quiet. Well, there were a few there. There was one character, one of those Beatle fans standing on the sidewalk, who was bugging them for an autograph. And this young man came up to John and thrust a copy of the Double Fantasy album at him

without saying anything. And John said, oh, do you want me to sign this? John signs it, John Lennon, 1980, says, is this what you want? Hands it back to him, and as he's signing it, Gorish takes this photo of them. The car hadn't arrived. Ours was there. Dave and his crew offered to give John and Yoko a lift to the record plant.

Then they got into the limo and went off to the studio with our team, and I stood there on the sidewalk just sort of savoring the moment and remembering the last three hours. And as I did, that same character kept bugging me and kept confronting me. Did you talk to him? Did you get his autograph?

What'd he say? Did you talk to him? He kept repeating it over and over. And I backed off and he kept coming towards me. There was something wrong with this human being. You said Yoko's got this song, she's got a poem called Walking on Thin Ice, and I think it's a hit, and I want to make something out of it. They're excited about this new song.

John, in fact, has been listening to it nonstop all weekend. He is in love with this tune and ready to get back to work at the studio. It was myself, John and Yoko. We were just having a blast making this track out of a loop which became Walking on Thin Ice. And then Yoko did this great poem, that she'd spoken word over it with this little song. Walking on thin ice. ["Walking on Thin Ice"]

He was sure that this song, Walking on Thin Ice, was going to open up a new world for Yoko. Yoko said, do you want to go to the stage deli? But John wanted to go back to the Dakota building to say goodnight to his son Sean before he went to sleep. We finished that night and we said we were going to come in and master the single

the next morning. Both John and Yoko were thrilled. They loved the way it came out. It's perfect. Couldn't be any better that night. The future looked great and so I walked him to the elevator and went home and somebody was waiting for him there. And when they returned, John got out of the car. Yoko walks first, is ahead of him by a few paces, and John follows, and he glances at

a fellow in the shadows briefly. And the young man came out of the shadows and called his name. It's the fan from earlier, the one who wordlessly had the autograph signed for him on the cover of double fantasy. It's a woman in the Dakota whose apartment is above the courtyard and she heard the sound of the gunshots wafting through the seven, eight, ten stories of the Dakota courtyard, which amplified the sound. We're just getting ready to leave the precinct to go out. And then a radio run came over. Shots fired at 1 West 72nd Street.

So we immediately started to proceed towards there. I observed a male laying straight out with his arms outstretched as if he was running and tripped or fell. It was a woman. She kind of had him straddled and she was in shock and it was Yoko Ono. But I couldn't put it together and then of course I realized it. I looked at Tony. I said, Tony, this is John Lennon. His shot went out. It was heard around the world.

An unspeakable tragedy in New York City. We saw bullet holes in the glass. And now we realize this is real. When I saw his face, I said I know this guy from someplace. John Lennon, outside of his apartment building on the west side of New York. My wife came into the studio and said, John's been shot. He just left me five minutes ago.

Rush to Roosevelt Hospital. I think my heart stopped. It said John Lennon has just been killed. And it was just this. What drives people to put five slugs in a guy? Why didn't I sense that there was something wrong with this person? This was an individual who was narcissistic, so he sought attention in a very violent way. I said to him, realize what you have done here?

And he said, I killed myself. He said, I'm John Leonard. My partner and I were parked at 72nd Street in Amsterdam Avenue. And a call came over of possible shots fired in the vicinity of the Dakota. We were the first two cops on the scene. They stepped out of the limousine and they went inside the gate there.

And then all of a sudden they heard five, six shots and that was it. Going across the street, there was a fellow running towards me and he said, Officer, be careful, there's a guy shooting a gun in there. My whole life went in front of me in about four seconds. You know, we have to get in there and stop this thing.

It was that about a few seconds later that Herb Fraunberger and Tony Palmer arrived. And we saw bullet holes in the glass. So now we realize this is real. Well, the doorman, Jose, told me, he said, him, the guy in the overcoat, he could have been a banker, or he'd probably be the last one you'd think

is gonna pull out a gun and shoot you. He had the copy of the catcher in the rye. Steve threw him against the wall. He was actually reading the book. He had dropped his gun. He said, I'm sorry, I ruined your night. I said, you ruined my night. I said, do you know you just ruined your whole life? So then he started talking about a big man inside of me and a little man inside of me. Tonight, he said, the little man won the battle.

John Lennon was shot with a five shot 38 caliber snub nose revolver. Kind of like an off duty gun we used to carry. Petronas and Palmer, what happened when you responded to the call? He informed me that somebody had been shot at the scene and I asked them where he was and they directed me into the office. I ran into the office and there was a man laying on the floor with his wife standing over him. Did you know who it was? Not at that time. He was laying face down and me and

Herbie turned them over and he was bleeding from the mouth, a lot of blood from the chest. At that point he was still alive and when I saw his face I said don't this guy from someplace but But I couldn't put it together. And it was like all of a sudden, a voice from behind me says, that's John Lennon. And then, of course, I realized it. I said, holy smokes, this is John Lennon. So Tony says, no, that's not John Lennon.

I said, I looked at Tony. I said, Tony, this is John Lennon, believe me. They put John in the back of a police car. You just can't stand by and wait for an ambulance. We picked him up, legs and arms, and we carried him probably 50 yards maybe. Where was he shot? Right going into the vestibule of the Dakota where the car is right now. We put John in the back of the car face down so that the blood coming out of his lungs wouldn't choke him.

He didn't look very good. He got shot at least four times. Closed the door and said, Jimmy, you know, Roosevelt was as quick as possible. As you can see, he's not in really good shape. And then Yoko tried to get in, but, you know, he was laid across the back seat. So I just grabbed her and I said,

come on, I'll take you to an arc assistant head nurse in the emergency room at Roosevelt Hospital. I worked the 4-12 shift back in the 70s, 80s. I answered the call and I was only told we were getting a shooting brought in by police car 20th precinct. If we would have got on the radio and said who it was, that word would have spread like wildfire. It was a straight shooting. Young, healthy, white male. It was kind of routine, I guess. I page the chief surgical resident. It was Dr. Howarin. So I go running down to the ER, and I say, what's going on?

They said we have a gunshot wound to the chest coming in. So it was the night of December 8th, 1980. I was on a motorcycle. I was in Central Park and I literally got slammed by a taxi. I ended up in an ambulance that took me to Roosevelt Hospital. So he was in the hallway which was not unusual because we always had people in the hallway because it was a small leor. And I was lying in the hallway when suddenly the door slammed open behind me and someone came running in screaming, we have a gunshot, gunshot in the chest. It's hitting the door right now.

And they bring this person literally into the room that I am lying outside of. We took them to a room that we called our minor OR. It was set up with all the equipment that we needed to take care of any shooting. So he had someone with four entrance wounds in his left chest and three exit wounds at his back. And we just jump on him. The nurses and the nurse anesthes, someone put a tube in his throat, the breathe form. Other people were, you know, scissors cutting off his clothes.

He was wearing his bomber jacket with a little full collar. And he immediately opened the chest, grabbed the scalpel, made the cut, and he had his hands in his chest. It was just all blood. The rastacavity was just full of blood. His heart was flat, meaning that there was no blood running through it. And I am looking into the room. All his clothes have been taken off.

He's lying with his feet towards me. His chest is open. Medical staff is around him in a semi-circle. They were literally trying to pump his heart manually to keep the blood flowing. And I begin to hear crying and there is an Asian woman in a mink coat coming in sobbing on the arms of a big leather jacket police officer. They didn't bring in a corpse. They brought in a mortally wounded person. He's either not gonna make it or he's maybe he's got a small chance of making it.

What drives people to put five slugs in a guy? There's always somebody that wants to take into themselves that fame and that creativity that you have. The closest they can come is by consuming you. What happened the night of December 8, 1980 was unimaginable. The emotion was so high in me. I just, like now, it's like reliving it all over again. Everything with that night, I remember it crystal clear. It's like a rugby scrum. This is all going on simultaneously.

And we get into a rhythm, pumping it hard. It was this, this is what we have to do. You work on everybody thinking they are going to survive. Until the time comes when you know they can't. Around this time, someone said, hey, that looks like John Lennon. I think my heart stopped. Now it's not just opening up anyone's chest.

You pause for a second, but you're mid-resuscitation, so you don't stop. Since he was so famous, I had to get security, I had to block the entrances, I had to notify hospital administration. My wife came into the studio in tears and said, you have to come up to Roseville Hospital, John's been shot. Shortly after Lennon arrived, some friends arrived, including record producer Jack Douglas, who had been recording with Lennon earlier that evening. It just sounded impossible. He's the closest to them. He just left me five minutes ago. This is his best friend, this is her best friend. She needs somebody right now.

And I was in shock. End of story. I'm lying there, my eyes are closed, my head hurts, and these two officers come out. And one says to the other, Can you believe it? John Lennon. I open my eyes and I look up, I said, excuse me officer, what did you say? And he kept pulling himself up the wall to look in the room.

And that's when one of the security guards told me, do you know who this is? And I went, well, Mr. Weiss. And they went, he's a reporter. In 1980, I was the program producer for Channel 7 Eyewitness News' 6 o'clock program. I have to have that piece, all right? As a news producer, you're responsible for

deciding what stories go on the air and making sure the stories are accurate. I went, oh sh**, get him out of this hallway fast. How did he end up in the ER that night when the other night was just being a boring, you know, several hour wait in the ER? I really wasn't sure that I heard John Lennon. And who would believe it anyway? Who would think that lying in the hospital,

that a person brought in would quote, gunshots to the chest, could possibly be a member of the most famous musical group in history? He was stalked, followed inside the archway, and shot in a small vestibule by a lone gunman. He gave me his rights. We recovered the weapon, got the names of the witnesses, and made sure we had all our ducks in a row. Was he disheveled? What did he look like?

I said before, I believe he was calm. Inside the precinct, there were a zillion detectives. He was there on Saturday asking about Mr. Lennon. He was there on Sunday asking about Mr. Lennon. He was there on Sunday asking about Mr. Lennon and he was there again this afternoon. He was a fan obviously and I couldn't figure out what would possess him to shoot. What drives people to put five slugs in a guy? I don't know. I can't answer that. Why didn't I know enough to say to the security guard,

you shouldn't let him stay here to this day? I can't get over that. There's always somebody that wants to take into themselves that fame and that creativity that you have, and there's no other way they can do it. The closest they can come is by consuming you. So I know it sounds a little bloodthirsty, but I don't think any professional, as a journalist,

would not feel that they had not done the job to the best of their ability if they didn't do everything they possibly could to get the word out. His reporter instincts went on high. He was a reporter, and that's what reporters do. But he was a plague of my existence that night. So I got up and I was able to hop on one foot. I get all the way down the hallway and this voice says, where are you going? And I said, could you please just let me make a phone call? Hands me the phone and I call Channel 7 Eyewitness News.

And I said, I know I banged my head, but listen to me. I believe John Lennon may have been shot. And the assignment editor says to me, I heard a call for an ambulance to 72nd and Central Park West. That's where the Dakota is. I said, that's it. That's the third piece of the puzzle. I've heard the name John Lennon. I've seen an Asian woman who now I'm pretty sure is Yoko Ono. And you're telling me there was a call for an ambulance, a 72nd Street

Central Park West? Get over here as soon as possible. We worked on for about 45 minutes. Pulse, blood pressure, he didn't wake up. There was just a pall in the room. Everyone finally was like, okay, this is John Lennon, this is it. But at some point, we're all in agreement this is done. And I consider that my work won't be finished until I'm dead and buried,

and I hope that's a long long time. When John talked about death or wishing that he had many many many years left to go, being hopeful about that, that's the most poignant part of the interview right there, given the outcome of that day. Wow, there's life, there's hope? the outcome of that day. Wow, there's life, there's hope? I hear a shrill woman's voice scream, and there is Yoko Ono sobbing on the arms of record producer David Geffen.

I get to the phone, and I said, I've got confirmation, John Lennon is dead. I mean the shot went out was heard around the world within an hour. An unspeakable tragedy confirmed to us by ABC News. My mouth hung open my jaw dropped. It's amazing what adrenaline is. I feel no pain, except for the pounding in my head of I cannot believe that this is actually happening. So I called local Channel 7 eyewitness news.

The assignment editor called ABC Network and reported that the producer of the 6 o'clock news is in Roosevelt Hospital and has gotten confirmation that John Lennon is dead. Monday Night Football was on. I believe it was in overtime. Here's Howard Cosell realizing that a story has just emerged that's bigger than this football game. And what are the news ethics about doing it? I can't see this game situation allowing for that news flash. Can you? Absolutely, I can see it.

You can? You betcha. We've got to do it. We know it. We've got to do it. Howard Cosell did not want to report that, but the head of ABC Network News had said, this is information that must be put on the air.

John Lennon outside of his apartment building on the west side of New York City, the most famous perhaps of all of the Beatles, shot twice in the back, rushed to Roosevelt Hospital, dead on arrival. A kind of gasp was heard across the nation when that happened. I ought to go back to the game after that news flash. Think about all the other musicians or celebrities that you know who died. Overdoses, suicide, accidents. To be shot and murdered by a fan. Outside your house, coming home to put your son to bed.

I mean, it's a pretty unsettling story. I was in my darkroom developing pictures, and a friend of mine called me actually from California, and he said, I just heard on the radio that John Lennon is dead. And I remember hearing that was the most permanent thing I ever heard in my life. I immediately went to Roosevelt Hospital and when I got there I saw through the glass doors Yoko and I realized she was holding somebody and squeezing them so tight and in tears. It was something I could feel.

His passing. You know, all of a sudden everything can change with the act of a maniac, you know. John Lennon was alive, happy, excited about his record. And a minute later he was dead. I was with Yoko at the hospital and a minute later he was dead. I was with Yoko at the hospital and I took her home that night. There is a photograph of myself and Yoko and David Geffen exiting the hospital, and she was on her way back to the Dakota. The front of the place was crawling with news people and a horror show.

There'd be crowds just waiting to touch me because I, because he died on my arms. I needed the police escort to get out. And I walked out and unfortunately my pants were covered in blood at the bottom of my white pants. And I had some idiot in the street yell that he would offer me $500 for my pants. There were extensive resuscitation efforts that were made, but none of them did any good.

There were transfusions that were attempted. None of them were able to save his life. There's no way to change that. There's no way to fix that. There's no way to make it better. I remember just kind of sinking down to the floor, and then the phone started ringing some more. And then I realized that the whole world was watching. Late this evening, one of the world's great entertainers and musicians, John Lennon of the Beatles, were shot outside his New York home. I thought, how could something like that happen in my city? You know, I was heartbroken.

Nobody knew what to make of it. People having no idea what to think. And then immediately wanting to turn to, of all things, turn to John Lennon for solace. Fans of every description converged upon 72nd and Central Park West. And I remember being touched by all that. My primary role at that time was to be President Fioco.

She was inconsolable. We both heard the sounds of the children singing from the street. All your days, it can't be such end. The vigil outside the building where John Lennon and Yoko Ono made their home lasted into the night. And she was inside broken and having to listen to these people outside her apartment singing John's music.

Couldn't escape it. I got a call from Roosevelt Hospital. They were about to return John's belongings, his bloodied glasses, and his wallet. This was what was left of John. And this brown paper bag. and his wallet. This was what was left of John. And his brown paper bag.

Oh, gosh. Why would anyone want to do this to John Lennon? I said to him, do you realize what you have done here? And he looked at me and he said, I killed myself. He said, I'm John Lennon. I thought he was crazy. There is a new sadness around the world.

John Lennon, the former Beatle, is dead this morning. The former Beatle was murdered in front of his apartment last night. The former Beatle made it up a set Former Beatle was murdered in front of this apartment last night. Former Beatle made an upset of stares, said, Mr. Lennon died as a result of multiple gunshots. John Lennon, dead here at Roosevelt Hospital in New York. I once heard somebody say that the most obscene four-letter word in the English language is dead.

And that's the way I felt. This is more than a president or a pope. This is John Lennon. This is really a cultural icon. People conducted an all-night vigil outside the Dakota, those who love John Lennon. It's become a moment like the moment of the assassination of John F. Kennedy, which everyone can remember

where they were and what they were doing. And it cut across all boundaries and all cultures. It's not often that someone means so much to so many people. People had grown up with him and with the Beatles. The effect was worldwide. A global generation that danced and sang to the music of John Lennon mourned his death today. He was a genius, he was a humorist, he had a lot to give. I've always liked him because he was a rebel.

He was one of the originals of this century, no question about it. The loss of Lennon, some say, is like the loss of a member of the family. I don't think John had any idea how important he was to so many people. All over the world today, newspapers and radio and television programs gave special, sustained coverage to Lennon's death. And they were playing all the songs off Double Fantasy around the clock. That's all you heard was his music. From Madrid to Moscow, the murder was condemned.

Polish television tonight reported the details of his murder, and so did other Eastern European countries. John Lennon, after a five-year absence, had finally released a record album. Today, here in Liverpool and all over Europe, Lennon's new record is selling out. In the wake of John's murder, the album just shoots to the top of the chart. They have three hit singles.

In death, he really had fully achieved the comeback that was in his heart. It wasn't just in the music world. He was there in everything. And he was always a part of people's lives. And now he never would be again. It's just unbelievable how this could happen. was there in everything. And he was always a part of people's lives. And now he never would be again. This is unbelievable how this could happen. Julian, who was a teenager, flew in from England.

He arrived alone. And one of the things that Yoko asked of me was to get Julian outside of the building away from what was happening, to kind of protect him from public scrutiny and media attention. The truth is none of us knew how to handle the enormity of what happened. Music New York City police have now arrested and charged a suspect in last night's murder of John Lennon. Prosecutors describe the killing as a calm and rational act of premeditated execution.

A man who has been described as deranged or a kook. The kid that shot John Lennon is somebody whose life was not paying off in any way for him, I suppose, and John Lennon is the guy whose life paid off in every way. The suspect in custody is identified as 25-year-old Mark David Chapman. I had heard some news reports where they said that they had caught him. The defendant was arraigned on a charge of second-degree murder. And without even seeing a picture, I knew that it was that guy. With Lenin at the time of the shooting was his wife, Yoko Ono. When doctors told her Lenin was dead, she cried, tell me it isn't true. Yoko witnessed this appalling moment,

an indescribable anguish, and has since not used the killer's name, which I think most people would agree with. They had one of the great love stories, I suppose. He thought she was the sun and the moon and the stars. They had one of the great love stories, I suppose. He thought she was the sun and the moon and the stars. It's very touching, really. John liked to talk to Yoko about what things would be like when they're older.

They imagined that they'd return to England and they would live in a little seaside place. And Sean would, you know, send them postcards about his great adventures and travels. And there they would be as these kind of doting parents, possibly even grandparents, two old codgers living by the seaside. Lennon's wife, Yoko Ono, said in a statement this afternoon, there will be no funeral service

for her husband. Instead, she will set a time later this week for all his friends and fans to pray for his soul. When Yoko had to tell Sean that his father wasn't coming home, he was dead. Sean said, well, now he's everywhere. And I think that that might have been one of the things that inspired Yoko to offer ten minutes of silence anywhere in the world, everywhere in the world because John was now everywhere and is everywhere. That Sunday in Central Park was truly incredible.

We went on the air for an hour, 10 minutes of which was the 10 minutes of silence, and we had multiple cameras in the park. And the moment came, and the only thing you could hear were the helicopters from the news crews. Just seeing the tears, just seeing the sadness, just seeing the grief, it was really a testament to just how much this man, John Leonard, touched the lives of so many people. Yoko wanted the world to take a minute and breathe and listen to their own heartbeat.

It was truly incredible. On the day that he murdered John Lennon, the defendant went up to Sean, said hello to him and shook his hand. What kind of person reaches out to the child of the man whom he will later murder? One thing she never wanted to be was a widow. And that was difficult. The weeks following John's death, days turned to nights and the nights turned to days. It was a blur. Yoko actually went back in the studio and finished the record that they were working on the night he was killed. When the album was being finished, I went to the Dakota and I listened to the last playback of the album.

And as I was listening to it, the sun was coming up over Central Park. Sean woke up and climbed into bed with his mother. It was such a Madonna and child kind of moment. I was able to just take my camera out and just take a couple of moment. I was able to just take my camera and just take a couple of pictures. It would happen to be Mother's Day in 1981. Sean was deprived of everything with his father that would come beyond him turning five years old. If Sean wasn't around I could have just sort of checking everything and stay in a hotel and just go to a corner bar every night or whatever. I could have been reckless.

Each time I felt like being reckless, I thought that I have to just keep the same life that Joan and I were leading, in the same apartment, in the same routine, for Joan's sake. The trial was scheduled to start in June of 1981, six and a half months after the murder. He was going to plead not guilty and use the insanity defense. But he had this thing planned for months. On the day that he murdered John Lennon, the defendant went up to Sean, said hello to him and shook his hand.

What kind of person reaches out to the child of the man whom he will later murder? And thereafter, he remains at the scene to be apprehended. The fact that he chose to wait at the scene was an indication that he was aware that he had done something that was wrong. So basically, his defense fell apart. He told me that God told him to plead guilty. From ABC, this is World News Tonight. Convicted of the murder of John Lennon,

was sentenced to serve 20 years to life in prison. This was an individual who was narcissistic, The murder of John Lennon was sentenced to serve 20 years to life in prison. This was an individual who was narcissistic, who thought he was worthy of great attention. So he sought that attention in a very violent way. Quite understandably, the coverage of the man who shot John Lennon was everywhere. He killed John Lennon for the sole purpose of making himself famous. We should never have given this man the glory of his name being all across the country, all around the world. In many ways, I think that we journalists did a disservice.

The man who murdered John Lennon 20 years ago gets his first parole hearing today. The New York Parole Board turned down the man who killed John Lennon 20 years ago gets his first parole hearing today. The New York parole board turned down the man who killed John Lennon yesterday. Lennon's widow Yoko Ono wrote a letter to the board urging that he be kept behind bars. It's a state law that he has to come up for parole every two years. It's been turned down every time. John Lennon's killer was told he will remain behind bars, denied parole now for the seventh time. ...denied him parole for the eighth time. The defendant has been denied parole 11 times now. I still can't get over John's death.

I'm still sort of recuperating from that. Inside there's something that is still sort of just tight. Yoko called me. She wanted me to help her take a picture of the glasses that John was wearing the night he was shot. She took out John's glasses. The glasses are broken and bloodied. And we were both crying and it was really horrible to see them. When you look at those glasses and you get just a little bit of the actual feeling, it's so horrible. It's not just a little bit of the actual feeling. It's so horrible.

It's not just a picture of some bloody glasses. It's a horrible moment brought out in public and stated publicly. She was gonna let the world know that she had been widowed by gun violence. And why shouldn't she share that? Why can't she share that? That's what she saw.

The next album that Yoko put out was an album called Season of Glass. That's where John's eyeglasses appeared on the cover to make the point. It's letting that image itself do the talking and it's just as powerful now as it was 40 years ago. It's become part of Central Park in a good way. It didn't turn into the tomb of John Lennon. It's a cool spot. After John passed away, there was talk in the early 80s of putting a statue of John in Central Park. John used to make fun of the statues because there's a famous person with a pigeon dumping

on their head. They wouldn't want some pigeon standing on John's head. And so Yoko created a park for world peace. Beetle John Lennon would have been 45 years old today, and today his widow Yoko Ono and New York City officials dedicated a two and a half acre site in New York's Central Park. It's a spot that I guess him and Yoko

used to visit all the time. Just a few hundred yards from where Lennon lived and died, New Yorkers honored his memory by naming this patch of parkland Strawberry Fields after a famous Beatles song. Yogo worked with somebody at the United Nations to get in touch with the leaders of every country in the world and asked them all to donate something so that the whole world could grow together in strawberry fields. acoustic guitar plays softly It's a living monument,

something to be fed and to be nourished and to be cared for. 123 nations donated trees and plants in Lennon's memory. You know, it's got a big plaque there. Beautiful mosaic, which was actually a gift

for the city of Naples. It's that single word of magic. It's a place that reminds us of who he was and what he did with his life and the statement that he wanted to make with his art. Letting imagine person love. When you take a plane over Centre Park, you look down, because of the shape of the roads around that particular spot in Centre Party, it looks like a teardrop. This garden is a result of all of us dreaming together. It is our way of taking a sad song

and making it better. Three years ago, I visited and there were so many people there, you know. People go to remember. That's all John Lennon wanted was peace. We're serious about the peace bit, you know. If we're going to be hounded, we may as well say what we have to say about peace and things. Every once in a while, the world gets an artist like that. And fortunately we had John Lennon to share and we have his art and his words and his ideas. He was heading toward new entries in the Great American Songbook.

And we're robbed of every moment of that for however long he would have lived. You can't calculate it. If anyone ever wanted to do something in the memory of John Lennon, I would say follow the words of imagine. Imagine all the people living life in peace. Everybody thinks that, but John gave people the words to express that. It's become an anthem for the world, which transcends barriers of religion and race, and seems to have a timeless message. It's hard to hear those songs and not be sad or wistful or angry to not want more of John.

We proudly welcome to the Walk of Fame Mr. John Layton. I think his spirit and music were very, very significant for a lot of people and still is. I think it's important to keep my dad's music and his message out there in the consciousness because it's a message that everyone can connect with. We come here with our hearts to honor dad and to pray for peace. So a sainthood really has come to John Lennon, though he would have laughed at the idea. What made us love him was because he was so very far from being a saint.

So here we are, 40 years later, talking about this man and this man's music. The music lasts because it is real. The music hits home and stays there. You've been listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault. Friday nights at 9 on ABC, you can also find all new broadcast episodes of 2020. Thanks for listening.