20/20 - The After Show: I’m Going To Get You

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

ABC News Correspondent Juju Chang reveals new insight in the case of 22-year-old Debbie Dorian who was murdered in her college apartment. Find out why it took over 20 years to track her killer down. �� Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

9-1-1. What is the address to your emergency? This 911 call began an investigation that would turn the town of Ashland, Ohio, into a crime scene. We've got something big going on here. The first thing you hit my mind is a monster. A new series from ABC Audio in 2020. The Hand in the Window. Out now, wherever you listen to podcasts. Hi there, everybody, Deborah Roberts here, and so happy that you were joining us for another

episode of 2020 The After Show. As always, you all know that we dig a little deeper into a story that some of you have already seen, and if you haven't, you're going to want to see it after today's episode. And this one is a reflection of a recent story that we did on 2020 called I'm going to get you. And I have to say, as a parent, this was a story to me. that just felt like every parent's worst nightmare. In August of 1996, 22-year-old Debbie Dorian was found bound, dead on the floor of her apartment. And it was her father, Peter Dorian, who actually discovered her lifeless body when she didn't show up to their home that day. Debbie had just graduated from Fresno State University, by all accounts,

kind of a shining star. She was studying economics, had dreams of becoming an audiologist, following in the footsteps of her dad, but of course her dreams were cut short by her tragic killing. It was something that law enforcement worked on for a long time. They could not track down her killer for nearly 20 years. And we're going to hear exclusively from a brave survivor who actually led them to the conclusion of this story later on. She actually had been attacked by the man, it turns out, who killed Debbie. We're going to hear about why she finally decided to speak out. a really captivating story. And of course, made more captivating

because Ju-Ju Chang covered it. Juju, one of our correspondents who contributes so often, and you and I have been here for a very long time at ABC together doing a lot of these stories. Absolutely. We grew up together here. We grew up together.

But you always bring such heart and such great inquisitive questions to these stories. And, you know, for you and I have talked about this before being parents. You've got sons. I've got a son and a daughter. Almost grown-ups, both of us.

And I think those stories really get me. They were particularly hard to cover. And I can imagine that this one probably was for you, too, a young girl who's just about to recognize her dreams. Absolutely. And the murder victim was just that. She was on the cusp of launching into this brilliant life. And it was cut short by a serial predator

who was preying on young college coeds, basically. And so it unravels in this sleepy little cow town in Fresno, as they call it. And honestly, it wasn't, but for the bravery of a different co-ed girl who was able to have the presence of mind to get authorities to the crime scene that they got the DNA evidence

that took 20 years to solve the puzzle. And of course, as a mother of young adults, you look at that and you're like, oh, all of that promise lost, all of that life that was about to unfold loss. Well, you know, these stories are always, so interesting to people and they are very captivated by sort of the cat and mouse game if there is one of those or just the police investigation. And we, of course, like to honor these victims on

2020 when we're telling these stories because it's so important. These are families who are grieving. So talk to us a little bit first before we get into the sad, tragic details of the story about Debbie Dorian, as you said, you know, a bright young student. She was president of the Econ club. She's working, trying to get a master's degree. She seemed to be loved by so many in her area. had a golden personality. I talked to some of her friends who talked about cruising down the street and listening to pop songs and it really brings it all back. She was also really one of those life of the party type young women. If you look at old videos of her, you see her and her handsome military boyfriend and the two of them were literally, you know, enjoying this part of their

lives. And she was strong and capable and literally just starting out. But also a tantalizing clue for investigators was she was looking for a roommate. That's right. And we're going to talk a little bit more about that later. But talk to us a little bit about the parents who were dealing with this. I mean, this happened a long time ago. But I recently interviewed parents of a young woman who had been killed. And the pain was so palpable, Juju. I mean, I have to say when I left them, it really haunted me. In this particular episode, Debbie's mom, Sarah, did speak with our team, but her dad, it wasn't able to. Yeah. So don't forget, her father was the one who found her body. And as one investigator told me, you can never

unsee that. And in the early years when there was a desperation to find her killer and da-da-da, he was very much front and center in the media, but he has since receded. Her mother, Sarah, has quietly come forward and just sort of was determined to find justice for her daughter. So I actually went to her home in Central California. We sat overlooking the ocean, and it was beautiful. and she really talked about her grief over these years. And it was she who got the lead investigator to promise her not to give up on her daughter's case. And that is essentially what happened. And oftentimes it is a mom.

It is a crusading mom. How is she coping with her pain? You know, she says it never goes away. It just changes, shape shifts, and you can tell that her whole life was dedicated to it. On her property, I walked over to the edge and she said, see these pine trees? and they're towering pine trees. She said, I planted them the year Debbie was killed. And you can see sort of the time and the evolution, but her grief is still there.

Yeah, of course. And it will be forever. And we can never forget that. This is a story that really took a long time. I mean, not only did it happen a long time ago, and it took police a long time, but our team was on this story. It was really complex trying to unravel. And we're going to talk about some of those details, but just the time to do this.

We'd been shooting on it for years, essentially. But I think for investigators, it was particularly hard because they had a DNA match, thanks to this incredibly brave Jane Doe, who came forward. But that match sort of sat in the banks because they couldn't find the perpetrator based on the DNA match. And so the investigators will assure you the case never went cold because they kept looking for clues and looking for clues. but it took nearly two decades. Wow. Yeah.

And when you talk about the technology, too, things have changed so much. Well, you mentioned that Debbie had been looking for a roommate, and so let's talk about the investigation because she had been looking for people. She needed money, like any young person, a student might. She had ads and flyers up. And they zeroed in on this list of people that she had talked to and immediately started seeing them as people of interest. Absolutely.

There was literally a pad of paper with a list of names. One of them was a young man named Alvin, and it was one of those, you know, obviously the investigators are looking at everybody, her boyfriend, her family, everybody. But they zoomed in on this guy because he had had contact with her in the days before the murder. And he went up to them and talked to investigators, and he was a registered sex offender. The DNA from Debbie's body was compared to Elvin, and he was excluded as being the contributor to that DNA. Alvin is eliminated. Maurice Dixon sample was also submitted to see if we could exclude and he could not be excluded. And so then they focus on his, somebody who dropped him off, his friend named Maurice Dixon.

And he became the center of a lot of intense scrutiny because at one point he said something about duct tape, which was what was used to bound her body. And so the investigators, again, more alarm bells, more alarm bells. And mind you, this is in the early days of DNA. And Maurice seemed to test positive. So the police arrested him. Zeroed in on it. Exactly. And it really changed the shape of his life because ultimately he was cleared.

Right. And Maurice, you know, is African American, did not fit the profile of the person that they said, one witness said they saw near her house. And yet at the time, don't forget, this was like on the heels of the O.J. Simpson verdict. On the heels of the L.A. riots. And so it was a very sort of difficult time in law enforcement. And so it was really shaped by that. Yeah, yeah, the racial tension in the air. And you know, when we look at these stories and we look back, it is so important to kind of give context to what was happening in the country. But you said that this really affected his life. And we reached out to him,

but he was not interested in being apart. His family was not, you could understand, inclined to talk about it, it really did shape his life. So that for the next 20 years, literally the investigators were tireless. They tested 146 different people against the two DNA samples that they had. And it just they couldn't find a match. Yeah. Yeah. And at the end, I mean, as you said, it didn't go cold, but they just made no progress. Well, Juju, you mentioned that it was going to take years, but there was a big break that would come in the case. So when we come back, we're going to hear about that brave survivor you just talked about. that helped kind of put the pieces of this puzzle together.

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It's cool, but it's fake. Sometimes it's okay to pretend. Rental family, only in theaters Friday. Rated PG-13 may be inappropriate for children under 13. Welcome back to 2020's The After Show. We are talking about a recent episode called I'm Going to Get You. And Ju-Ju Chang was the correspondent who has spent a long time with your team on this story, such a tragic story of a young woman whose life was cut short, and you're helping

us kind of dig deeper into this episode, the horrific murder of Debbie Dorian, 22 years old when she was found dead in her apartment. There was DNA evidence, and it's so interesting because today it's so sophisticated, but we're talking about a time where it wasn't, and forensic experts had no suspect to actually tie it to. They had the evidence, but they couldn't actually pinpoint the person. And then they used the Kodis system to help try to search for us. other matches around the country. And we've heard about that, but break that down for us a little bit. Right. I mean, people who love true crime understand and have heard of CODIS. I'm sure you've done stories. It stands for the combined DNA index system. And so all of these DNA samples are

in their database, but there was never a match because the person who murdered Debbie Dorian was not a convicted violent criminal. And so his DNA was not in the CODIS system. And so that's why for 20 years, it was unsolved because even though they had these two samples, they couldn't do it. That said, it was really a fascinating look at how they stopped the clock on the statute of limitations. Because because they had these two DNA matches and they knew the statute of limitations was running out, they issued what's called a John Doe arrest warrant so that they knew, well, we have the DNA sample. We just don't have a name to it. And so it was an ingenious way of getting around the statute of limitations.

on the sexual assault. Ultimately, you know, this thing just went on and on, which is what made it such an intriguing 2020 because they're different suspects and they're looking at different people and there were like four different sexual assaults that actually happened between 99 and 2002 when the period right after Debbie had died. And matched the M.O. of this particular assailant. So they knew that there was somebody who was probably a serial predator they were looking for. So Jane Doe number one, this woman that you talked about, the brave woman who, finally actually came forward to talk. Talk to us a little bit about what the moment was like for her to be able to talk about something like this. She is a remarkable survivor. And she's one of

those countless women I've interviewed who just blow my socks off because they are so brave in coming forward and sharing their stories. She also was the one I told you who had such presence of mind in the moment. She's the one who said to the perpetrator, I am going to get you. you are not going to get away with this. He stopped her while she was riding her bike. He grabbed her handlebars. He pulled a gun on her. And she still stood up to him.

Exactly. And she says, I'm going to get you. You're not going to get away with this. But he did leave a DNA sample on the ground during the altercation. And she was terrified, but she went straight home and she circled around. She had the presence of wine to say, like, I don't want him to follow me home. So she rode her bike around. She got her sister.

She called police immediately. They were immediately able to pinpoint the location of where it happened, and they found the DNA sample. And they found the DNA sample. Another young college co-head on the brink of adulthood. And all of that was really sort of changed the trajectory of her life. Of course. It was a big moment for you to be able to get her to talk. Her name is Beth.

And what was that like trying to get her to sit down? It was a very lengthy process. Beth, you know, had testified in court. And all four of the women were Jane Doe No. Number One, Jane Doe No. Number Two, Jane Doe No. Three, and four. And they were all young women that he was praying on. One was attacked at a bus stop. Another was attacked on the way home from school, a high schooler. And she was a college student. And she decided to come forward and talk to us because she felt that she wanted to put a face to the name. And she, again, was incredibly impressive. But at the same time, it's so bittersweet because, Despite how strong and feisty and independent she was, it almost destroyed her life. And she will be the first to tell you. And she was very candid with us about the impact it had on her throughout the years. Yeah.

She was only 19 at the time. And she basically confronted this guy. She was riding her bike. She tells you, Juju, when she came face to face with him. And she recounted what happened during your interview. Let's take a listen. You're riding your bike home from work one day. I was about three blocks away from my house

And I saw a gentleman pull out of a street It was 10.30 at night There was nobody on the road He grabbed my handlebars And had a gun And you saw the gun Yeah Told me to get off my bike and get on my knees

He told me if I didn't, he would kill me And I believed him I was 19 You have a gun to your head You do what you're told And the whole time All I remember saying is I'm going to get you

you're not going to get away with it. That's feisty. Yeah. With a gun pointed at you. I don't know what else to do. Part of what impressed me about her was her emotional maturity, like she and her transparency. For somebody that strong, that feisty, to have it make her life go so sideways, it really, to me was, I mean, I'm getting goose pimples just thinking about it, such a salve to other survivors who feel like, why can't I? I just get over this. And they also can, they're heard and they know that somebody else has,

has experienced this and they don't feel so alone. Juju, she was 19 at the time. Now she's in her 40s. And she talked to you about low self-esteem. I mean, how is she doing right now? Oh my gosh. She's doing well. She was able to testify. And what was amazing is I got to meet her comfort dog. He came to the interview. I got to pet him. And he went to the courtroom with her. she has a good job. She's got a son who she talked about and she is doing well. I think this case and be able to come forward has healed a lot of the Swiss cheese of her heart. It's been remarkable to see and it was great to just meet her. The Swiss cheese of her heart and that probably is what it feels like all kind of holy and chopped up. Well, Juju, despite the fact that

Beth feared for her life, you know, you do a great job of describing how she was able to not only go to police, but they were able to do a DNA test. It was critical in finding the man who assaulted, not only her, but who had killed Debbie. So when we come back, we're going to go through the major twist and turns of this case that ultimately resulted in putting a dangerous criminal behind bars. We'll be right back. This show is sponsored by Homerserve. Owning a Home is amazing until it's not Sometimes you're on your way out the door for a big trip you've been excited about for months when suddenly a pipe bursts. All of the sudden, that long-awaited vacation has to wait until you can find a repair company in your budget.

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Go to homeserve.com to find a plan that's right for you. That's homeserv.com. Not available everywhere. Most plans range between $499 to $11.99 a month your first year. Terms apply on covered repairs. Welcome back to 2020 The After Show, and I'm sitting with Juju Chang, my colleague, and our great correspondent here from 2020, who is helping us look deeper into this report that we just recently had on. I'm going to get you. The case of 22-year-old Debbie Dorian, a young woman who was found murdered in her apartment, police weren't able to solve it for nearly 20 years.

The break in the case came not only when a young woman who had also been assaulted stepped forward, but because of a technique, a DNA, technique, forensic genetic genealogy after another case in Vysalia was solved. The Golden State Killer, we all remember the Golden State Killer case. That had an impact here. Talk to us a little bit about that, how it all worked, because so much was being revealed to police over the years once the DNA technology improved. And then this Golden State Killer case had a big impact on a lot. Absolutely. I mean, it was a fascinating DNA chain of events. right? I mean, obviously when Debbie Dorian is killed, they find a DNA sample there of the murderer. Then a couple years later in Visalia, there's a string of sexual assaults. And that DNA that was

collected from Jane Doe, number one, from Beth, became the case-to-case match. And that is what kept the case hot. Because as investigators said, they never gave up. They ran 146 samples. They were, you know, trying to solve the case. Once they did that, they did the John Doe warrant, which put an end to the statute of limitations. But then came after years and years and years, something as you referred to as the genetic genealogy investigation. And what that does, it allows investigators, like in the Golden State killer trial, they are able to look at DNA samples beyond CODIS and look at the family tree of people who have uploaded DNA samples and said, okay, you can use my DNA sample for law enforcement. And bingo, they were able to, within days, compile a family tree based on

the genetic samples and find who was living in this area, who matches this description, who matches this age. Bingo, we think we have our man. And that man was somebody by the name of Nikki Stain. That's right. All right. So let's talk about him because at the time of his arrest, he was 52 years old. I mean, this crime had happened a long time ago. He was a marriage. He was a married, a man, a father of two, active in the PTA. Somebody, nobody would have ever tied to something like this. And he was a serial predator. And what this case shows is what we see a lot in true crime, right?

Which is monsters among us, people who are literally hiding in plain sight that you would walk by in the mall and not necessarily take issue. Nikki Stain was that guy. And he was managing a restaurant in a local mall. He had been working, you know, traveling a bit, and he was in the vicinity, not just in Veselia when the sexual assaults happened, but in Fresno when Debbie Dorian was murdered. In the piece, you talk about the fact that he was working at this mall, and police actually approached him during his shift, questioned him about his victims, and here's what happened. Let's take a listen. I don't see how we're going to be able to talk to more of the counter.

We went to his workplace, asking for him. Is Mr. Stain in? Mr. Stain in? Yes. Hi. Hi, Mr. Stain. My name is Vince Havala. Hi, Ben.

This is Bob Shodas. We're doing some grunt work here. We're looking into a matter that happened a while ago. Take five minutes. Okay. That's fine. We begin to ask them some questions. Have you ever seen that girl?

No. No. You've never committed any violence against her. No, I haven't been anything. Oh, I don't. I don't know or so I wouldn't know how to. Yeah. So, have you never committed.

violence against anybody? No, no violence against anybody. But Vince hasn't waited this long and come this far to take no for an answer. Her name was Debbie Dorian. She was found murdered. You didn't kill her, did you think? No, no. No. Nikki Stain denied knowing Debbie. During our conversation with Nikki Stain, I told him, I said, look. We've been asking everybody we talked to if they would voluntarily give us an oral swab to compare to evidence.

that's at this scene, but if you haven't been there, I mean, you know, it's just kind of a mundane thing. Yeah, it sounds like, I don't know, that sounds like, I don't know if I want to do that. Juju, let's talk about his response to police. He was pretty blasé. He rejected a DNA test. And this is a man who, at that point, it pretty much appeared that he had, as you said, been a serial predator. Nikki Stain was a very complicated perpetrator for sure. And what we found, I mean, the lead investigator, Vince Savala, the one who vowed to Debbie's mom that he would not give up on the case before they arrest him.

They have to get a fresh DNA sample just to sort of confirm what this old sample suggested. And he wouldn't, you know, they didn't know how to get it. So they actually did the classic police detective work, a dumpster dive. And they were able to get his trash and find DNA off of stuff. he had discarded. We think a razor is where they found the DNA match. Which happens in so many of these cases we cover. There were some strange things around this guy. He had this kind of fantasy life and what they found, and I've seen images off of this, like, you know, how people have a fake account. It was a fake Facebook. And instead of Nikki Stain, he called himself

Nikki Steele. And he had images of himself with women and going out clubbing or whatever it was. was definitely a kind of a Walter Middy kind of persona that he had about himself. Stain would later plead guilty to 12 felony counts, including murder, multiple sexual assaults. It was a deal that would spare him the death penalty. Yes, but what the prosecutors felt very strongly about, and this was on behalf of Jane Doe, our brave survivor, Beth, they didn't want him to not be charged with the sexual assaults. That was what the defense asked for. Okay, we'll plead to the murder.

but we don't want to do sexual assault. And they felt that it was because when you're in prison for sexual assault, you're seeing differently inside. Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? You're a target. But the prosecutor said,

no, Beth, Jane Doe, number one, two, three, and four deserve their crime to be on the record and for him to serve time for that crime. Yeah. So they felt very strongly that they didn't go out there. At the end of the day,

that was what it was all about. But they also spared her family having to go through a trial. Absolutely. So having him plead guilty. Juju, what you brought to light in the story is that, you know, as you said, this was a case that didn't really go cold. They just couldn't find the perpetrator for a long time. But the police wouldn't give up.

You talked to a detective. This was very important to them that they didn't give up on this case. I mean, you talk about Hart, but Vince Zavala is one of those people I fall in love with in these stories. He worked on farms as a young man, and he literally retired to go be a pomegranate farmer. And, you know, you talked about the producers who've done the work. Our senior producer, Sean Dooley, went shooting in this misty pomegranate farm. And it looked like something out of Cecil B. DeMille. That's Sean.

That's Sean. Exactly. And, but it really showed his heart. He could have just literally ridden off in the sunset on his tractor, having solved all these cases and been a man of law. But this one struck in his craw, too. And this one was one that he just did not want to give up on. And so when I see that level of termination and you see a tough guy, a 40-year veteran of law enforcement, get choked up talking about arresting this man and seeing him finally after 20 years being put behind bars, I mean, that's what makes true crime really gratifying.

And also, you're so good at your job. People get choked up when they talk to you, Juju, because you get them to just really go deep. He's a sweetheart. Nikki Stain's going to spend the rest of his life in prison. to some degree this was, I guess, a level of justice for Debbie Dorian's family, but, you know, could not have been easy, though, even though they did get this. You know, they had to see him. They had to know and live again what happened to their daughter. Yeah. It was, you know, spending time with Sarah, you could see that this is something that you just, you know, you talk about victim's impact. It's just, it cannot be fully described. And yet Sarah tried. She gave a victim's impact, statement and kind of like that book, The Lovely Bones, she spoke in her daughter's voice in the courtroom. It was, you could hear pin drop. And it was so dramatic. And basically she talked about, I will never get married. I will never have children. I will never have the

life that you took from me, essentially. And, you know, the only sort of inspiring part about it is that it was Beth's bravery, Jane Doe, number one, that helped keep investigators on the scent. It was Sarah who kept crusading for her daughter, and it was Vince, who just would not give up. Yeah, the humanity, Juju, you really brought it all home to us in this story. I mean, well done, well done. It's all our producers. So many people, I mean, now I'm going to get in trouble if I start listening. Don't start listening. Don't start listening anybody, but you brought it. At the end of the day, you brought it. And Juju, thanks so much for coming. As always.

It's always great. You and I can just talk all day. Yeah, let's just chat. Yeah, we can. We kind of have a limit on this podcast, but we will do this again. I know. You and I will do this again. All right, my dear.

Ju-Ju Chang, always doing such great reporting. Well, that does it for us on 2020 The After Show. We always appreciate your coming by and hanging out with this and tuning in. Of course, you know, you can catch our latest 2020 episodes on Friday night on ABC. And, of course, you can stream episodes like this one anytime on Disney Plus and on Who. See you soon. Coming to Disney Plus and Hulu. Cassidy, get us home.

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