20/20 - The After Show: Inside the Courtroom with Brian Buckmire

Episode Date: December 8, 2025

We’re diving into the details from inside the courtroom in some of the most provocative criminal cases of the year, including the Sean “Diddy” Combs trial. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Canada's Wonderland is bringing the holiday magic this season with Winterfest on select nights now through January 3rd. Step into a winter wonderland filled with millions of dazzling lights, festive shows, rides, and holiday treats. Plus, Coca-Cola is back with Canada's kindness community, celebrating acts of kindness nationwide with a chance at 100,000 donation for the winning community and a 2026 holiday caravan stop. Learn more at canadaswunderland.com. Hi there, everybody. Deborah Roberts here and welcome to 2020 The After Show, where we have an opportunity to take you behind the scenes of our reporting here at 2020 and give you a look at how we put our stories together and who the contributors are. And today we are taking you inside the courtroom, which is where so many of our stories actually are born, you know,

out of trials that we've been following and the outcomes. We are talking to ABC News legal contributor Brian Buckmeyer, who has been with us before. Brian, you're an attorney and the host of ABC's podcast, Bad Rap, the case against Diddy. And you might also see him contribute to our 2020 reporting. He's always giving us context and analysis during our episodes. And just most recently, you and I talked about a case that I covered, the Cristiel Krugue case. You've talked about the Ahmaud Arbery case, Henry Louise Wallace, among others. So many that you've worked on. But Brian, good to have you back. Thank you for having me here.

Yeah, you and I run into each other a lot in passing, sometimes getting powder in the makeup room. And usually we're talking just very briefly about that day's reporting and what's happening that day. Let's talk about you, though, because I know, of course, that you're an attorney. Our viewers know you're an attorney, but I didn't know that you were born in Canada to Caribbean immigrant parents, that you were an athlete, you were a soccer player, you're a defense lawyer still practicing. Tell us a little bit more about what brought you to the law. Yeah, so born and raised in Toronto, Canada, mother is Jamaican, father is Grenadian. So I'm first generation Canadian, I guess you would say. I came to the United States because if you are familiar with the Jamaican mothers,

you've got three choices. It's doctor, lawyer, or teacher. I've heard that. Pick up a book or pick up a ball. I picked a both, but somehow a ball got me into the United States. So I had a soccer scholarship. I played Division 1 and Division 2 soccer. So then, yeah, I was somewhat pretty good I get to soccer.

I was what we consider a second team All-American. And then I applied to law school on both sides of the border. And I was fortunate enough to get into first Hofstra law. And then I transferred to Washington and Lee in Lexington, Virginia. I got a job before I graduated, which I was very fortunate to do so at the Legal Aid Society in Brooklyn. And that's where I started my practice. I am the oldest of three, got a three-year-old son, an amazing wife who somehow tolerates me doing all these different jobs. What is it about the law?

We use lawyers so much in our stories, including you, to talk about, you know, what happened inside the courtroom. What about that defendant? Or maybe even to sort of give the side of the defense. Sometimes the defense lawyers in the particular cases don't talk to us. What was it about the law that intrigued you so? I think it's for me, the law is how we decide how we interact with each other. The law is how we find equity or justice or equality. There are many situations where we don't have the freedoms or the rights unless we have someone advocating for you.

And I think like most people who turn to the criminal justice system either as a judge or a prosecutor, you've had that family member who was a victim of a crime and didn't get prosecuted. Or in my sense, I have uncles who are Rastafarian, so they have the dreadlocks and whatnot. And they're profiled. And they get profiled. I think at one point in time, my uncle got stopped and had his jacket taken because he couldn't prove that he bought a winter jacket because he didn't have a receipt. And I'm like, do I have to carry receipts for the clothes that I have now? There are different times I just saw the law was the thing that either could help or hurt and being able to advocate and have an understanding of the law was something that I appreciated and just brought me into the practice.

Yeah, and we appreciate that you're doing it. One of the cases our listeners will associate you with is the Diddy trial. And you've been with 2020 and working with us on. And I want to play a clip from Bad Rap, The Case Against Diddy. It's a podcast that you hosted for ABC about the federal trial of Sean Combs. Let's listen. In Diddy's old life, he could choose which of his many homes he wanted to spend time in, a three-story mansion overlooking the Pacific Ocean and downtown L.A.,

a compound in Miami, including a nine-bedroom mansion, a New York City apartment with views of Central Park, homes in New Jersey and Atlanta, and a waterfront mansion in the Hamptons. Now, Diddy's in the Metropolitan Detention Center, or MDC, in Brooklyn. This bland behemoth is where he'll stay as he awaits trial. So we're pulling up to MDC now. It's got like this uncapped, unwashed, grunginess of it.

There's a tall metal fence around the MDC complex, so the parking lots is far as most reported. get. But as a defense attorney, I'm here almost every week, and I can get further than most. Now, this was episode one, and you're kind of blending your world as a media rep there, as well as a lawyer. I'm just really curious because I have heard so many people talking about this Diddy case, right? Friends of mine who I wouldn't even think would be intrigued, maybe didn't even know much about Diddy. And they're in the grocery store listening and watching and catching the latest on the case. Why do you think people were so captivated by Diddy's story?

So as a child of the 80s, I think that I grew up almost at the heart of Diddy, like, seeing his rise, seeing his music, and seeing his popularity. But I think regardless of how you came into his story, whether you saw it at the beginning or the tail end, there was something that attracted you to his fame and his popularity and his charisma. And then I think the story of a fall from grace is as old as time. It's just one of those allegories that regardless of the story that's being told, when we see someone reach a pinnacle

and then somehow lose it because of something they did or didn't do, it gravitates us as an audience to watch. And so me being in my late 30s, oh God, my late 30s. Those were the days. Yeah. And my brother and sister

who were in their early 20s and then my parents who are in their 60s were all talking about this. And it's the strangest thing that connects multiple generations of just watching someone who had reached the pinnacle of what they could and then this fall from grace and then seeing, is it a fall? Is it not a fall? Are the allegations true? And then of course, in many cases, we don't see the allegations that they're being accused of or to see parts of it. And then to see the Cassie video. I think that pulled us all into this. That's when I think that's when it really blew up that like

this is something. So Cassie was a former, she was a singer. but also a love interest of his. And then this video of him abusing her in a hotel, Sean Diddy Combs over the years. I mean, he had the big white party and he was, you know, he dated Jennifer Lopez for a while. And he was just this big presence in the music industry. But there had always been rumors that there was something going on in his life that was, you know, a little nefarious. Tell us about being in the courtroom because typically you're in the courtroom as a lawyer. This time you spent a lot of time in the courtroom as an observer, a media observer.

And how do you pay attention to the case in a way that's different than what you would do if you're legally defending someone? Yeah. So like you said, I still practice. I am barred in the state of New York, the Eastern and Southern District of New York, where this case was. And I'm actually barred in the Supreme Court of the United States as well. And so oftentimes when I walk into court and it happened a few times here where the marshal was saying, oh, Mr. Bachmire, do you have a case on today? And I'd be like, no, I'm sitting over here with the media. They're like, but the, not over it.

kind of out of context for them. Yeah. And they're like, why are you waiting in the media line? Why don't you just walk through the attorney? Like, do you have, and so for me, what I tried to do, and even in the clip they played with the MDC, which I just was at yesterday, the thing I really liked about the ABC team is like, can we just follow you around? Can you, like, bring us into your world of, like, what this looks like.

Yeah. You were very close to this in so many ways. Yeah. And so I'm going to MDC and my client's telling me like, oh, yeah, Denny's here. He's like, I think they're doing a search because they think they got a cell phone from him that like someone else sold to him. And so like everywhere I'm going, I'm just absorbed in this ditty world. The ability to tell the story and bring people in, I thank ABC every day and the people who stop me on the street and say, hey, good job or horrible job or whatever may be like, hey, thanks for listening one way or another. Yeah, but with the certain amount of knowledge too that most of us wouldn't be able to obtain and probably most of our legal minds wouldn't be able to just because you have been so connected.

it to that world. Well, Brian, when we come back, I want to talk about your thoughts on defense work and what you feel like is most misunderstood. So stay with us, everybody. This show is supported by Chime. Chime is changing the way you bank. Anyone who's ever had a checking account has probably run into the headaches that come from banking with an impersonal traditional bank, like overdraft fees, inflexible paydays, and unfriendly customer service. But with Chime, headaches are a thing of the past. Chime isn't just another banking app. They unlock smarter banking for everyday people, not the 1%. Chime offers life-saving features like MyPay, which gives you access to up to $500 of your paycheck anytime and get you paid up to two days early with direct

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Again, that's ABCsecret Savings.com promo code. 2020. We're back with ABC News's legal contributor Brian Buckmeyer talking about his work here at ABC at 2020 and across all platforms. We call on you to help explain some of the nuances in these cases that sometimes can get really kind of complicated that we cover on 2020 and often in the build-up to cases that are just about to go to trial. We hear from prosecutors. There's an indictment, the charges and then of course there's the defense part of it and that's your mind typically but you can sort of like switch gears and kind of give us a sense of both sides of the case right yeah so i think as a defense attorney who has never prosecuted before everyone from public defender to now being an

attorney in a private firm called hamilton clark lop here in the city where we do both defense work and plaintiff work as well if i don't know the prosecution's best argument i'm not doing my job so i have to think about what the prosecutor is going to do. I have to think about what the officer is going to do. I have to sometimes be a better DNA expert than the DNA expert themselves in order to find the best way to defend my case. And so what I try to do, as I alluded to earlier, is inform the audience as best as possible about this case. I hope that when you are done listening to me, that you come away with understanding the system better, understanding the case better, and maybe something to like kind of like just comment out like the if people still go to water coolers when they go to work like hey like I heard this interesting thing like did you know that Idaho has the death penalty with firing squad and it's the only one where they they can choose it for you and that's true when we're talking about yeah when we're talking about Brian Coburger or if you're talking about the Charlie Kirk assassination that they have the death by firing squad as well I've heard about that yeah Utah yeah that's one of five states to do it and you're like oh this is interesting I'm not just hearing about the shooting or the murderer or the victim

I'm learning something about how this system works. You mentioned, before we even came on air, a poem that sort of means something to you. Yeah. So a lot of people ask why a public defender and a lot of people back home in Toronto say, why go to the states to do it? I think that even as a Canadian, we have to admit that a lot of people are looking at America and probably looking at New York as the metric of do like, how do we do this? And I think when we look to New York and we think about crime or justice,

when you think about stop and frisk, when you think about other people, policies that have been found unconstitutional or constitutional. That's where I wanted to be. I thought it to be like ground zero. And there's a poem that we had to read in high school that was about the World War II. It's by, and my German is not the best. I'm sorry. I think it's Martin Neum Euler. He wrote a poem saying called first they came for it. And it goes somewhere along the lines of like first they came for the socialist and I didn't say anything because I wasn't one. Then the communist. And I think the tradesperson and the Jewish people. And then when they came for me, there was no one to stand up for me.

I remember hearing about that. I mean, just most recently, too, we hear it a lot. Yeah. And so as a public defender, I think to myself, if I don't stand up for the least of us, then no one will stand up for the rest of us. And so even if a person is a criminal, they have committed the crime,

I want to make sure that their constitutional rights are upheld because I think it's a very short and slippery slope that all of our constitutional rights may be infringed upon if we don't make sure that the new, least of us have their rights protected. And so for me, that's kind of how I think about representation. What's most misunderstood do you think about how trials really work? Because we're educating people often about what's happening in the courtroom. That all the answers end up coming to a conclusion after 30 minutes. This is not an episode of law and order. Like, we're not going to get all the

answers. I don't think the best example I would give is like talking to producers during the Brian Coburger case where he took a plea. We're like, we're going to find out the motive? Are we going to fine. This is like, not necessarily. Not necessarily, guys. And as we sit here now, we still haven't heard about a motive. No, not at all. And unfortunately, we may never. And even some of the missing persons cases is like, guys, you might have to be comfortable with not knowing those burning questions. And even at trials, we don't get that sometimes. And you got to be okay with that. Yeah, we don't get that ending that you would get on, you know, on television. You talked earlier when you were here about technology and how that fascinates you. And

so many of the stories that we cover turn on forensics. There's that cell phone data that the criminal almost got away with it, with the exception of the cell phone tower that placed them someplace. There's DNA that now long, unsolved cases have suddenly been solved because of DNA. How has that changed how you look at and even sort of report cases now that the technology is so way ahead of us? So the fortunate and unfortunate thing is that the criminal justice system is often a little bit behind on the newest advancements of the technology. But when we do get there, you've got to wrap your mind around it quickly in terms of its application. The greatest example I can give you most recently is the investigative genetic genealogy getting samples

from a hair, well, not technically the hair, the skin cell on the base of the hair, and how that can create a profile that can identify you in a family tree. And that to me is fascinating, both in that sense of the ability to exonerate people, people who have been wrongfully accused of a crime, and we see that through examples of the Innocence Project, but also in the way of finding catharsis and justice for people who don't know where a loved one has been for the last 20, 30, 40 years. There may be an answer for these victims. Yeah, and for me, and just most recently, I covered a story for us that there was no body that was found, and a woman was convicted, but the family still doesn't have what closure they could have at the very least in terms of

putting somebody to rest. Well, some of these stories are never really completely answered, but Brian, when we come back, I want to talk a little bit more about your career as a defense attorney. So stay with us, everybody. Thanks to HomeServe for sponsoring this episode. Owning a home is amazing until it's not. Sometimes you're five minutes away from welcoming guests into your house for your annual holiday party when suddenly your ankle deep in water from a burst pipe. sudden the celebrations have to wait until you can find a repair company in your budget. Repairs can

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your first year. Terms apply on covered repairs. We're back with Brian Buckmeyer, a legal voice here for us at 2020 and at ABC on so many of our platforms, and you practice in the courtroom. You sit and talk with us. What's more stressful, sitting and talking with us about these stories of being in court? It'd probably be ABC. To be completely honest with me. This podcast, probably. Yeah. No, because I think you guys give me far more credit for being able to do this well. I still feel like a fish out of water. I feel most comfortable. After all these years, Brian, come on. I still, and I've had this conversation, like, funnily enough with Alex Pershay when he was like, so when people ask you, what do you do, what do you tell

them? And I was like, oh, I tell them a lawyer and sometimes I'm on TV. And it's like, you're on TV all the time. I feel far more comfortable as an attorney. You're doing pretty well, my friend. Let me tell you, you're doing pretty well. In fact, I didn't know you were practicing because you are on TV so often. Before we go, any cases that you look at when you're, you know, examining them for us and sort of wish that you were actually working on, or maybe some that you wished you thought maybe you could have made a difference on? And you don't have to name the case. I'm just curious. whether there are any. Can I legally have it?

Yeah, I can't, yeah. Oh, yeah, there are definitely a case that I wish, and I did not outwardly say that I could do the case, but I think my posture definitely suggested to the client that I could have taken the case, but they had already picked an attorney. I know the attorney, I know one of the attorneys on the case, and that was a case that I wish I had taken, wanted to take,

but that didn't happen. It didn't happen. Well, I tell you, some of those defendants would be very, very fortunate to have had you on those cases, but we're just happy that you're here with us. Brian, it has been such a pleasure getting a chance to chat and get to know you a little better. Thank you for having me.

I appreciate it. Thank you. Well, that does it for us today on the after show. Brian, so good to have you. Thank you for having me. Hey, guys. This is Coach Glow from Dance Moms. Don't miss Season 2 of Dance Moms in New Era, now streaming on Hulu.

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