20/20 - The After Show: Road Map to Murder

Episode Date: June 2, 2025

Deborah Roberts talks with ABC News contributor Ryan Smith about a heartbreaking story out of Wisconsin where a couple go missing and suspicion falls on their younger son. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This was a story that made national and international headlines. A Wisconsin couple goes missing over the 4th of July weekend, and family and friends tell us that Bart and Krista Halderson were beloved parents. They couldn't imagine who'd want to hurt them. Their 23-year-old son Chandler told people his parents had gone up north to spend the weekend at their cabin with another couple, and he had no idea

about their disappearance. Here's a clip from our program. We didn't have a name. We didn't have a vehicle. We didn't have a location. Truly looking for a needle in a 900 square mile haystack. And then the question is, okay, if they're not at the cabin, where are they?

There were no bodies. There was no anything. So we didn't know what happened, but of course your mind goes to did the worst happen. Are Bart and Krista still alive? And spoiler alert here, you probably know by the way if you saw our 2020 episode, Bart and Krista Holderson are not alive sadly. Their remains show up in the most grisly way possible. And this is a story that unwinds in a way that is unimaginable.

Joining me to talk about this case is my friend and colleague Ryan Smith, an ABC News contributor and legal analyst who traveled to Wisconsin to bring us this story. Hey there Ryan. Hey Debra, always great to talk to you. And you too. Unfortunately we always meet under some circumstances that are less than savory. And this is one of them, a story set in a bucolic part of the country. The Holderson family lives near Madison, Wisconsin, friends telling us that the 4th of July was their favorite holiday. And this is a program that was so beautifully shot when you think about that part of the

country. It's summertime, parades for the Fourth of July, the lakes, the outdoor recreation, and then the deaths of the Haldersens at the hands of their youngest son is such an unbelievable contrast. I can imagine why this story struck such a chord nationally and internationally. I mean, when you look at like the heartland and then this. Yeah, absolutely. Deborah, this is like a slice of Americana, Dane County. You talk about 4th of July weekend, parades,

people celebrating. And this case really struck a chord because not only is this sort of the place where this kind of thing doesn't happen, you know, a son killing his parents, but also these parents, this family was like the epitome of the great family. The worst crime possible, think about that, with a family that's loving, caring by all outward aspects. And it was so out of the blue. You know, Bart and Krista were well-liked as neighbors,

their younger son Chandler was living with them and Chandler's life was about to take off. I mean, this was a guy who had a new job at SpaceX. He was in college. He had a promising future. He had a girlfriend. Everything was going great outwardly. But inwardly Chandler's life was unraveling.

The internship at the insurance company was a fake. He was leading his parents to believe that he was in college. He wasn't in school at all. He was living a lie. Yeah, he was setting up this elaborate web of lies with emails that he was pretending to send from the college to show that he was

trying to get his transcripts. None of that turned out to be true. And then the job at SpaceX, complete mirage. Never had a job lined up. He didn't have that job. No, no. So nothing was going right in his life. He didn't have that job. No, no. So nothing was going right in his life. So this is a guy who's feeling some desperation.

Yeah, and I think as they went through this, they tried to look at this like, OK, Chandler's life is falling apart, but he doesn't want to tell his parents about it. And so he doesn't know what to do. So when investigators start to realize that this is a guy who's living a lie, clearly they begin to look at him a little closer. Yeah. And this is the guy who called detectives initially to say, my parents are missing.

But all of these things set up red flags for detectives, what they see in the home as they're investigating the case, what they see of Chandler. All of this starts to say, hey, this kid is not telling us everything. And as they start getting clue after clue, unraveling detail after detail of evidence, they start saying, I think the unthinkable happened. So it's still a mystery as to why he did what he did, but this is one of these situations where you walk in this neighborhood, Deborah, I'm walking around and this is like a slice of suburban America calm

neighborhood Grasses being mowed beautiful gardens outside. It is the very last place You would see a double murder classic middle America and we should say they had another son who was just a year older Mitchell and you had a chance to not only travel there But you got a chance to see this home that the family lived in. What was that like? Yeah, it just a normal split level 1960s home.

But Deborah, I gotta tell you, walking in that house, it was eerie because of how idyllic that area is and because of what you know happened in that home. I mean, this is the kind of place, I just wanna paint this picture. In their neighborhood, they had competitions for the best lawn, you know, that kind of place. You know what I'm talking about. It's like, it couldn't be a sweeter place to grow up. So when you're in the house, when I was in the house, and we had this unprecedented

media access to the home, we went through it with investigators. And what really struck me was the smallness, the sort of family aspect of the home. There's a little basement area that's kind of quiet where kids can play, and there's a family room, or there's a fireplace. And I'm looking at that fireplace with detectives. And all of us are just standing in this really small room, maybe no bigger than eight by 10. And to think that Chandler killed his parents and according to investigators and what came out

in this case, burned their remains in the fireplace. Just standing there, it's like, I can't believe this would happen in a slice of suburban America. Yeah, so the father Bart was an accountant, his wife an administrative assistant, just kind of normal people. So investigators noticed that there was something off with that fireplace, right?

When you go back and look at when they were trying to look at this case, I mean, of course, nobody is going to immediately suspect their son. So they noticed something with that fireplace. That's right. Chandler calls them and says, my parents are missing. So detectives come by and they noticed the glass door was broken. And Chandler tells this story about a dog breaking it. Now, that's not totally out of the question, but okay, you hear that. Then they pick up on a smoky smell in the house. Now keep in mind, this is July, so a smoky smell using a fireplace, why would that happen? So they're keeping this all in their mind as they sort of start investigating this case. Then security cameras pick up a nighttime glow of the fireplace being used and sort of a popping glow at one point where it gets brighter than ever. For them as they start putting the pieces together, they start saying, hey, was that

a time where remains were being burned after they start suspecting that Chandler had something to do with this? And then Chandler, as they piece this together, they sort of come up with a theory of all of it. Once they really feel like Chandler's the person who did it that he Shot his parents in the basement and I hate to say this but then he he dismembered them He gets blood all over the house and he tries to cover up his crimes By burning them in the fireplace all this happening in that idyllic home

Oh, you did such a great job with this story and it gets stranger as he tries to hide the rest of their remains and Law enforcement, of course are on this case now, and they're kind of quickly putting the clues together. We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back, Ryan, I wanna talk about your interview with the detectives and how this case was overwhelming, even for them at times. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece french toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin

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Grocery delivery on repeat for just $2.50 a month. Learn more at pcexpress.ca. I'm back with Ryan Smith, who covered this incredible story for us. Ryan, law enforcement charged this case literally within a matter of days. Chandler clearly had been living a lie, but what was it that actually made them so suspicious

of his story off the bat? It was so out of character, all of it, with respect to what Chandler said his parents did. So he said his parents took off for their cabin. They were going with people that he didn't know, that were basically unknown to anyone. They took a little bit of money. Maybe they were going to the casino. The problem is, if you look at that in one way, you don't know Bart and Christa, you say, okay, I guess that makes sense. But this was not the Bart and Christa that everyone knew Bart and Christa.

That didn't fit their profile of how they did how they rolled in life. No, they would usually let people know where they were going. It was bizarre that they were going to the cabin with people that were unknown to anyone. They weren't the type to just take money and go to a casino. It all kind of felt off. And also his affect felt off. Deborah, how many cases have we done

where it's like somebody's telling the story of what happened and officers are like, this does not sound like a person who's talking about his parents being missing and his concern. The body language doesn't add up sometimes. Exactly. Or just the story.

And it wasn't only the body language, it was what he was doing as well. He was going around the neighborhood asking what people could see on their security cameras. And this was something police were already doing as part of their own investigation. So for police, it's kind of like, we're doing this, why are you doing this?

We didn't ask you to do that. What are you worried that was seen here? So they were very suspicious. Well, of course, they came to the awful, awful conclusion that these two people had been dismembered. And once body parts were showing up, I mean, this was hard for even the detectives to cope with. We're going to play an extended clip from our program where you ask Detective Sabrina Sims about that.

So you find Krista Holderson dismembered, her body parts in a couple of different areas. What's it like to have this realization that Krista was killed in this heinous way? Yeah, I think, I mean, again for me, just as a human, as a daughter, as, you know, aside from being a law enforcement officer, it's just like incomprehensible that somebody could do that to somebody, especially if it's your own son. And it's just so graphic. I don't really have words for it, to be honest. Yeah. I see you thinking about it and it's kind of... Yeah.

It's almost brings about some emotion in you. For sure. Tell me about that. Yeah, it's just... Yeah, I don't know. It just is... I just don't know how somebody could do that to somebody else, especially if it's their parents, right? We go to homicides all the time. We go to murders all the time. And a lot of that stuff is in the heat of the moment. Domestic related, what have you, gang related. This is just a whole other level of emotion.

Because it doesn't seem like the heat of the moment. Right. It just doesn't make sense. My brain can't wrap around what would make somebody think that that's their option. Ryan, your compassion and just your kindness toward her comes through, and we certainly saw it on camera. I mean, she's dripping with emotion there in her voice and just in her demeanor. That must have been also hard for you

just to even guide her through this. It was. You know, I think sometimes when we do cases like this and people watch them, people think, well, police officers, they're hardened to this kind of stuff. They handle these cases all the time. You know, this is their job.

This is what they do. But we forget that not only are they people too and they internalize this like we do But also detectives when they investigate cases like this, they get to know the victims They get to know them like their friends or or their family And so when I was talking to detective Sims who's an outstanding Detective who's been doing cases like this for years an outstanding detective who's been doing cases like this for years, you could see it in her eyes. And I think the biggest problem for her was

there were no warning signs. This isn't the kind of case she sees where something happened and someone did something extreme. There was no sense that the family was in such trouble. Chandler didn't have a criminal record. So for her, it's like, as she was telling me this, Deborah, she's like, I'm still trying to figure out why with these people that I got to know, with these people that in some ways, I got

to really connect with these people that are like my neighbors, my friends, I'm still trying to figure out why Chandler would do something like this. And that's what she was really trying to bring forth as we were talking. It's yes, she has to do this case. Yes, she has to work this case. Yes, she's completely impartial as she's going through it. But she's a human being. And this just shook her to her core. Yeah.

And we've both done stories like this where we've interviewed law enforcement officers, particularly in smaller towns where they haven't, as you said, dealt with this kind of thing. Crimes of passion from time to time, of course, violence here and there, but this one goes to a whole different level, as she said. Well, we're going to take another quick break, and when we come back, the mystery at the heart of the story, the question I know that our listeners are thinking and wondering, why did this happen?

Stay with us. Why do Fintechs like Float choose Visa? As a more trusted, more secure payments network, Visa provides scale, expertise, and innovative payment solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash fintech. solutions. Learn more at visa.ca slash fintech. We are back now with Ryan talking about this incredible story and one of the things that's so compelling in a story like this Ryan, we have to talk about his motive because we're talking about a 23 year old son who presumably had loving parents, he still lived with them,

and you know for him to do something like this, why? You talked about his life unraveling. Clearly he had secrets he didn't want his parents to know about, but, you know, we all have, those of us who have kids, know that sometimes they hide things, but what would move him to go in this direction? What have we heard from Chandler? Yeah, you know, the interesting thing about this case is no one involved in

this case in any way really knows what is going on in Chandler's mind as to why he did what he did and why he took it this far. Everybody can relate to the fact that your life isn't going well, maybe you're putting up a facade for certain people, especially people that you love, and you do something extreme to try to cover it up. But this, in this heinous way, these killings of your own parents, we still don't really know. I mean, at the bottom line of this is a jury found him guilty in January of 22 of killing Barton Christa. Then in April of 2023, a judge vacated Chandler's two convictions of hiding a corpse. That was part of this.

But that ruling's not gonna impact the fact that he's gonna serve two life sentences for his parents' deaths, both of which he's appealing. Now that matters because it's sentencing, right? In these cases, this is the moment a lot of times family members wait for. They're sitting there, they're saying, okay, Chandler is finally gonna tell us

why he did what he did. This is so beyond what we would ever have thought he did, would do. He's gonna explain it to us. And he got up, and the first thing he said was, I'm not a person with no heart. There are certain things I can't talk about. But it was the way he talked in the brief time he addressed the court. He said he's appealing. He said, hey, if there's any lawyers out there who are listening, I need a lawyer.

I want them to handle my appeal. Please help me. Boom. That's the essence of what he said. No remorse. No, no, I'm sorry for that. I can't believe this could have happened or, you know, no explanation to give family members some idea of what went wrong.

Not even an inkling. And I think their overall view was where was the remorse? This is such a painful story, you know? There's so many people that we try to talk to in this who don't wanna talk because it's so raw, it's so recent. But for people involved in here, they were kind of like, where's the remorse in all of this? Barbie Townsend, who we spoke to, Chris's cousin,

she wanted the public to know that Bart and Crystal were these good loving parents. And so for her, it's like, can he talk about that at all? Are we ever gonna find out why he would do this to these beautiful, good loving parents? And we just don't know what was in his head. Rather than being left with this gruesome, grisly impression of just how their lives ended.

Well, we've got an extended clip from your interview with Barbie. Let's take a listen. If you could talk to Krista one more time, if you just had one more moment to say something to her, what would it be? I would say you were a great mom. And you and Bart raise good children, and I just don't know what happened. But you were a good mom. Out of all this, that's what I would tell her. You know, creative, involved, and supportive, almost. I mean,

I don't even know. It's almost like she was so involved and creative and supportive and loved those children dearly. I just, yeah, I want, I would say you were a great mom. Yeah. Yeah. I don't get to tell her that, but she was. Ryan, you were so great with these folks in this story who were hurting. And as you said, so raw, so recent, and you know, your compassion really comes through. What did she talk to you about Chandler? What does she say to you about Chandler and these web of lies that he had woven? Yeah, she said that if Chandler

would have gone to his parents and said, I'm in trouble, I've been lying. I'm not actually in school. I don't have the job with SpaceX. You know what they would have done? They would have helped him. They would have tried to help him. And there's a quote that really stands out to me. She said this, they would have helped him

find his way back and get out of all this web of deceit and lies and get him back on track. They would have gotten him help emotionally, physically and financially because for Barbie and for everybody we talked to, that was who they were. I mean, Bart and Krista, especially Krista, she doted on her sons. And you know that clip you played, Debra,

one thing that stood out to me was, she's not just saying, Krista, you're a good person. You were great in this life. She makes the point, you're a good mom. Krista took so much pride in that. Even in her final text to Chandler, right before he's about to lead her to her death, he texts her, can you get some soda? And she does, like a lot of moms will do, text back K with a smiley face. There is nothing about the relationship

that doesn't show anything but unequivocal love for her son. Christy used to write these encouraging little notes to Chandler, things like, have a great day, hope you're feeling better. And he saved some of those notes. There was love in this family. And for some reason, Chandler did what he did. So for Barbie, the overall fact was, you knew your mother, you knew how much she loved you,

you knew how much she loved you, you knew how much she cared about you. And yet you couldn't, if you just would have owned up to the way your life was going, this all could have been different. Well, you know, you and I talk about this a lot in other stories that we've covered. And you know, you, you host our series about bad romance and you and I have talked about how so often you just sort of wonder why wouldn't people have just sort of chosen the path that was hard but certainly not tragic. A couple of other questions for you before I let you go. Let's talk about

the trial. What kind of defense did his team offer? Not much and for good reason and I think every time when people see cases like this and they say where's the defense he must be guilty, not quite. It's more that they tried to poke holes in the prosecution's case by basically saying, look, I see this, I see that. It doesn't mean that Chandler did it. Just because he was in this place and that place, it doesn't mean Chandler did it.

But ultimately, because of the technology in this case, because of the way they were able to track his whereabouts, because of the different materials they found in the house, because of Kat's testimony, his ex-girlfriend, all of that made the evidence just overwhelming. And honestly, Deborah, the defense had an uphill climb no matter what the circumstance. There was not a lot they could do with this case. Not exactly circumstantial, and the technology played a big part in this. Huge.

You talk about the technology of this This is I think this is the first time in history. I've ever said this but This case had a smoking snap map. Now. What does that mean? They had this part of snapchat called snap map where you could Track somebody's location and know where they were at any point in time and just like snapchats You know the snapchats you do them and they go away, same thing here. Well, Chandler had a girlfriend, Kat, and Kat took to tracking his whereabouts because their relationship wasn't always on the up and up.

And so at one point he was in this forest area not long after Bart and Krista went missing. So she takes a screenshot of the SnapMap. As time goes by and they start trying to pinpoint Chandler's location, she realizes and officers realize as they go through her phone, which she gives them, this snap map places him at a location where they eventually find remains. So without that snap map,

they might not have been able to prosecute this case and they might not have been able to find Barton Christus Killer. That's just how amazing technology is these days. This is just such a tragic story. And as you said, could have been avoided. I mean, so much pain and suffering for everybody. Ryan, a compelling story. Thank you so much for bringing it to us and for being with us today.

Yeah, Deborah, always great to talk to you and thanks for doing this. Appreciate it. Of course. Well, that does it for the after show. Make sure you join us on Friday nights at nine o'clock Eastern for all new episodes of 2020. The 2020 after show is produced by Amira Williams and Sasha Azlanian with Matt Lombardi, Jonathan Leach, Brian Mazursky and Alex Berenfeld of 2020. Theme music by Evan Viola. Janice Johnston is the executive producer of 2020.

Josh Cohen, the director of podcasting at ABC Audio. And Laura Mayer is the executive producer. Hi, I'm Brad Milke. I'm the host of the Crime Scene Weekly, a new show from ABC Audio about the latest headlines in true crime. This week, I'm talking about a major development in the Murdoch murder trial, the allegations that a court clerk lied on the stand. Could this mean a retrial for Alec Murdoch?

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