20/20 - The After Show: What Happened to the McStays?

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

ABC News' Matt Gutman unpacks what may have happened to a California family that disappeared from their home. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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just vanish into thin air. It was a mystery for a few years until they were finally found, sadly murdered. Our 2020 team led by Matt Gutman explored this case in What Happened to the Mixed Days. It's now streaming on Disney Plus and Hulu and our ABC chief national correspondent Matt Gutman is here with me now to talk more about it. Hey, Matt. Hey, Debra. Hey, so listen, before we get into this story, I think our viewers and certainly our listeners know that you are, you're like the energizer, Bonnie. Give her our listeners a sense of what that's like for you all over the map, and sometimes you get these calls on a weekend. Often. I mean, I've worked many, many weekends recently.

But the good thing about this story that we're talking about, the McStay family disappearance and murder, was that it essentially had happened almost in my backyard. It's very like a Southern California story. And so many of the stories that we cover, Debra, we have to travel far. This was a pretty quick commute. The scene of the disappearance is about 90 minutes away south of me in San Diego County. And the scene where they were found is about 90 minutes north in San Bernardino County, which is one of the nation's largest counties. Actually, it is the nation's physically largest county.

So this is like a real Southern California story. and it takes place, you know, right at 2010, and it's about a surfer dude, and he married this lovely young lady who was a spitfire. They ended up creating a business. He had two kids. They had these two boys that they loved dearly

and took such good care of. They had started a life together. They bought a house, a detached house, after having an apartment, and then they suddenly disappeared, Deborah. And that's what is so astonishing about this story. And I don't think I've ever covered anything quite like it, in which a family simply vanishes. Yeah, yeah.

They go from being like what seems like a normal family to disappearing into thin air. And I know we use that phrase all the time into thin air. But in this case, it was literally that. No messages, no email trail, no phone trail. They just disappeared. And Matt, we saw you reporting from the mixed day's neighborhood. you're with a detective out there, Detective Bruchos, talking about the family dogs that have been running around and one of the cars missing from the driveway, but they didn't see any evidence of a

struggle. And then, of course, they start looking into this case, and there are a lot of things that are sort of strange that kind of began to stick out for them. But years are going by, right? This is so interesting. And you make a really good point, right? Somebody calls it a welfare check. It's actually a guy named Dan Kavanaugh and other family members. Dan Kavanaugh is a business partner of Joseph McStay. And then, you know, police actually go to the house and they see, as you mentioned, the dogs barking and they look like they've been hungry and sort of let loose in a yard, but there does not appear to be a crime. And so initially law enforcement doesn't know what to make of this. So the family is not officially declared missing. We're at risk for a while. And so that's one of

the reasons I think that this case takes so many years to unfold because it's almost, it's well over three years before their bodies are found about a hundred miles away from where they disappeared and when investigators when the family when friends go into that house deborah there is no evidence of a struggle yeah yeah no apparent murder weapons or a murder weapon it seems like the family just disappeared there's even the food yeah left on the counter um the kids clothes are kind of about It looked like they had just started. They had bought the house and they were painting and they were refurbishing and they were going through all this stuff. Like they up and decided to just leave.

And for a while, Deborah, there was some thought that maybe they'd gone to Mexico. And there's a good reason for that. Somehow the family's Isuzu Trooper, which they had had with the car seat still in the back, was found right on the border at the San Diego crossing between California and Mexico. one of the busiest and most trafficked border terminals in the entire world. And the car is right there. Eventually it's towed because it was parked illegally in the shopping center right next to the border crossing. And then investigators who still haven't declared a crime start pouring over this video.

And they think, ah, after like days and days, and with the help of good Samaritans, they're pouring over countless video feeds coming from the border terminal. And they believe that they spot this family of four that matches the district. of the mixed days crossing the border into Mexico. And when they finally get those search warrants, they're able to go on the family computer. And there is some traffic and internet traffic about traveling to Mexico, staying there.

And eventually there's even a waiter who thinks that he spots a child with a description of one of the kids, even with an identifying birthmark. And he calls law enforcement in the U.S. or law enforcement is called. And then San Diego sheriffs and others and the FBI end up going. to Mexico. They interview the waiter at the restaurant, but it turns out to be nothing.

Years go by, and still there is no word about what happened, a source of enormous distress to Joseph's mom, his dad, his brother. He was very close to them. But still, there's no sign of anything. And that was what was so confounding about this case. Matt, one of the things, and before we go further into the investigation, I'm just sort of curious because one of the things we talk about on this podcast a lot is what it was like for us out in the field. And you're at this home where this family had recently moved into. And it's 15 years later. I mean, this happened in 2010. And it must have been sort of eerie for you, though. I mean, obviously you're reporting. But that must have made when you know what happened, which is that this family disappeared, ultimately, you know that

they were not returned safely. Everything was left right there on the countertops. What was that like for you? It's such a stereotypical California neighborhood, Deborah, right? Like, it is middle class right next to avocado fields. When we flew the drone, you could see that, you know, it's a really lovely place with lots of kids in the neighborhood. And even though it's all these individual houses, the McStay family home looked almost exactly like it did 15 years ago. Wow, like frozen in time. Exactly. And the family. knew them. And the family across the street, they still have the camera that essentially captured a tiny bit of a vehicle leaving on February 4th, 2010, the day that they are believed

to have disappeared the last time that they were ever heard from. One thing that I thought was interesting when you're talking with investigators, and there was a detail that we didn't get to put in our story, which is that a neighbor security camera actually happened to malfunction. And these days, we think about cameras being everywhere, right? They help police with these investigations. But before we hear more from you about that, let's listen to a bonus clip from your interview with Dennis Brugos of the San Diego Sheriff's Office. This is the house where the neighbor had that camera that had the home surveillance footage. And what that showed was a vehicle pulling out of the driveway sometime after 7 o'clock on the 4th of February and then driving

down the street. Unfortunately, the picture wasn't clear enough to where you can get any type of reading on a license plate. And then for some reason, Between February 5th and February 15th, the homeowner says that her home surveillance camera malfunctions and she has no video. Is that significant for the investigation? Well, yeah, certainly we would like to have as much video footage as we can and that's one of the first things we do we check for cameras in the area. Investigators come here.

There is no sign of struggle. There is no blood. There is no DNA. There are no eyewitnesses. The one surveillance camera that might exist goes blank on the days they might need it. It feels like this is a really tough start. Well, it is. I mean, it was a tough case to start with.

I mean, it never got much better. What about that security camera, Matt, because it sort of malfunctioned a little bit. But it did sort of come into play in this story. One of the things, Deborah, that I noticed in the neighborhood is how closely people live, right? Everybody knows each other. And here you had the McStave family

with two young children, two dogs in the yard. Like, they interacted with their neighbors. And today, everybody's got some sort of doorbell camera or security camera, right? Everyone. We are talking about 15 years ago. The shocking fact is that it seemed to go out between the 5th and the 15th. These are critical days in the investigation. And one wonders what could have been captured, the comings and goings on those days.

If someone had murdered the family at the house itself, would the video camera have captured it? Would it have seen more during the day? Would it have showed that person or people? Were there multiple people transporting the body or bodies or doing something? But the camera didn't work. And that law enforcement didn't have any video footage from the 5th of February, 2010 to the 15th of that month in 2010. Well, Matt, ultimately, you know, authorities arrest, Joseph McStay's colleague in his business, Chase Merritt. We're going to take a quick break, and when we come back, we want to hear about your reporting on basically this disturbing story that people are still talking about in California. So don't go away.

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On Mind of a Monster, a podcast from ID, criminal psychologist Dr. Michelle Ward dives into the mindset of Kristen Gilbert to try to find out why she would kill her patients and how she was able to do it in front of her colleagues. Ward speaks with detectives, journalists, nurses, and victims' families to unpack Gilbert's life and crimes on Ward C. Listen to Mind of a Monster, the killer nurse, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the after show. Before the break, we were talking with Matt Gutman about the report that he just brought to 2020, what happened to the mixed stays. Let's get back to the man who was ultimately convicted in this case, Chase Merritt. And prosecutors allege that he had been writing checks from the business and he owed a mixeday like more than $40,000. I mean, this is where they're getting to the motive, that there was cell phone evidence that led them to argue that he was familiar.

with the location where the bodies were found. That was how they built their case and all the evidence that painted a picture of him as the likely suspect. Talk to us a little bit about Chase Merritt. He didn't testify, but we did ultimately hear from him in court after the fact. It turned out that Chase Merritt, according to prosecutors, had a gambling problem. And then he needed money. And he was good at making these waterfalls.

That was the business that he and Joseph McStay had. He was really good at producing this stuff. He wasn't so good at the business of it. So it turns out that he may have owed Joseph McStay over $40,000 in back payments. It also turned out that he ended up once Joseph disappeared, putting checks to himself. And those checks began essentially the moment that Joseph disappeared. And they went on for a number of days. And investigators found that very suspicious.

And then they built on the cell phones. And they learned that when it's believed that he was, that the family was disappeared and buried in the desert at some point thereafter in the next couple of days, well, Chase Merritt's cell phone pings on a tower a mile and a half or two miles away from the site. Chase Merritt said, hey, my sister lives on the other side of that cell phone tower. And, you know, I'm very familiar with the area. Ultimately, he was convicted in this case. And you actually had an opportunity. to speak with him after the fact. I mean, he's in prison now. Not many people have had that opportunity. You spoke with him via phone. He continues to argue a very different story. Talk to us a little bit about that conversation. Chase Merritt continues to profess his innocence. And remember, Deborah, this is a case that was decided solely on circumstantial evidence. There is not a speck of physical

evidence that puts chase merit either at the scene of the possible crime. Nobody knows yet where the McStay family was murdered, whether it happened in the house itself or if it happened in another place. That's how little physical evidence there is in this case. But it is all circumstantial. And he says, listen, it wasn't me. I wasn't there. They can't prove it. And he claims that there is evidence that the jury was not privy to from another cell phone expert who says, Chase Merritt's cell phone could never have pinged near the side of the grave site. The people who said that were wrong. They misinterpreted the data and, you know, Chase Merritt could not have been there.

He believes that that's exculpatory evidence that was not presented. His lawyer said the same thing. But the fact is, his lawyer did have the opportunity to present this witness at trial. And he didn't do it. He remains adamant that he did not commit this crime. And he had argued how much he loved Joseph and he never. would have done this. Well, Matt, when we come back, we want to talk about the behind-the-scenes moments. Stay with us.

Welcome back, everybody. I'm here with Matt Gutman. Matt, this story, oftentimes, like these stories do, take you to different places. This one took you out to the Mojave Desert. What was that like? On the one hand, stop leaving savings behind at the pump. Get up to seven cents per liter in value every time you fill up at Petro Canada. That's three cents per leader in instant savings plus 20% more points when you link an eligible RBC card to your Petro points. Find out more at rbc.com slash petro dash Canada. Conditions apply. If you look in one direction, it feels like the most remote place on the planet, Deborah. On the other hand, you're looking at I-15 right behind you, despite the blistering heat. And that is like one of the main thoroughfares

from Los Angeles to Las Vegas. So on the one hand, a mile from where we were, really traveled highway and everything beyond it is just wilderness. But luckily, I was, I was well, with these spectacular producers who have been working with for over probably almost 12, 13 years, Alyssa and Sunny, and we got it all done. It was spectacular. Yeah, they had your back. Well, you know, it is important, though,

for our audience to go to these places and to be able to, in the storytelling, to show everybody where these things happened. And you were right there, you know, basically it was sort of the grave site, not far from the highway, as you said, where the bodies were discovered, the mixed day family left behind there.

And it's so interesting because it's such, so close to this highway, as you said, but not necessarily clearly visible to somebody who would be driving by. So if you're driving on the highway, you would not have noticed us. But we standing there in the desert, looking at the highway, saw every single car you could even, you know, see into the trucks, right? And I asked the investigator, how is it possible that nobody saw anything from the highway? He said, you know, folks are cruising there at 75 miles an hour.

They're not looking a mile off the side of the road. and they can't see with that kind of detail, even though we're looking at them. And then the other side about a mile and a half away was this dump where there are lots of trucks and cars, but they're also not looking out for it. And so there was this memorial set up for them informally because the family of the mixed days ended up,

obviously the bodies were exhumed for forensics, but they were buried in a different place, which was actually their final resting place. Yeah, well, Matt, I mean, it was just a remarkable story, And it's kind of a reminder to us, too, that, you know, at the end of these stories, it's all about the loved ones, right? Those who are left behind, those who are trying to honor the people that they've lost, the victims of these crimes. And you and your team just did a really remarkable job of bringing to us this story of a mystery, but one that just really was so very captivating. So, Matt, thanks so much.

I really appreciate it. Thank you for taking the time. I know it's a busy time for you. You probably got to go hit the road again. Not for the next 15 minutes. Oh, yeah. Well, there you. out. Always good to chat with you, Deborah.

The 2020 After Show is produced by Jess Yankalunas, Olga Deloos, Emily Schutz, Madeline Wood, and Susie Lou, and Trevor Hastings of ABC audio with Joseph Rhee, Elizabeth Stoller, Blue Browning, Tom Berman, Sonny Antrim, Brian Mazurski, and Alex Berenfeld of 2020. Theme music by Evan Viola,

Janice Johnston is the executive producer of 2020, Josh Cohen, the director of podcasting at ABC, and Laura Mayer, the executive producer I'm John Quignores Vanessa Guillen a 20-year-old soldier vanishes while on duty at an army base in Texas her family demands answers how can she go missing on a military base that's too ridiculous the search goes on for months and a dark story starts to unfold she told her family that she was being sexually harassed and wasn't reporting it out of fear of retribution

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