20/20 - True Crime Vault: A Tangled Web

Episode Date: November 27, 2024

A twisted, fatal love triangle and the shocking truth on whether or not the stalker and victim are the same woman. Originally aired: 12/04/2020 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Welcome to the 2020 True Crime Vault. Each week we reach back into our archives and bring you a story we found unforgettable. He broke her teeth. He broke her bones. Poisons that you could use that would be undetectable. Oh my goodness! What have you done? Take a listen. This is a story of just absolute insanity.

Obsession, love, the dangers of online dating. It is one of the most desperate love triangles I've ever seen. desperate love triangles I've ever seen. My phone starts blowing up with texts from Carrie. I hate you. You ruined my life. They've been dating for just two weeks. And he couldn't believe that this woman that had just seemed so easy going was this deranged. She was flat out stalking him.

Carrie's rage seems to be focused on his ex-girlfriend Liz. He had absolutely no idea the nightmare that his life was about to turn into. She says, I have Liz tied up in the trunk of her car. You need to call her right now and tell her you hate her. She's a whore. Otherwise, I'm going to kill her.

This investigation is about to take a left-hand turn that is mind boggling. Could it be that the so-called stalker has actually been dead this entire time? I mean, what? Almost too crazy to be true, except it's all true. Council Bluffs, Iowa is a Midwestern city with a small town feel.

It has many hardworking people who are willing to help their neighbors, friendly people. It's a quiet, rural community. On the outskirts of the city, on the border near Nebraska, is Big Lake Park. The park is huge. It's almost 200 acres and there are lakes, one filled with rainbow trout, hiking trails and playgrounds. Big Lake Park was known to be a place that families frequented. It was very peaceful. But what happened here on a cold winter night in 2015 was part of a mystery that stumped police for years. On December 5th, 2015, a woman was at Big Lake Park

taking an evening stroll. She'd gone to the park to think while alone on the walking trail in the dark. She took a seat on a bench to rest for a moment. She was approached by another woman. She said a female approached her from behind, told her to get on the ground, and then fired a shot at her leg.

She said the female ran off into the woods, and then she felt it was safe. So she walked this pathway and called 911 because she had left her phone in her car. and called 911 because she had left her phone in her car. I've been so late to come running. You know what she looked like at all? No, she was behind me. Council of Police responded. They had a helicopter over, could not find a suspect. This was a shocking event to have occur,

but no one was able to find this woman with a gun running through Big Lake Park. It's a mystery that started three years earlier, 10 minutes from Big Lake Park in Omaha, Nebraska, with a man named Dave Krupa. Dave Krupa was a 35-year-old mechanic. I was so fascinated by the fact that Dave Krupa was just a normal guy, a really nice guy.

He wasn't the kind of guy you'd expect to find in the middle of a murder mystery. My name is Leslie Ruhl, and I'm an author. Leslie Ruhl was so intrigued by this story that she wrote a book about it called A Tangled Web. For fans of true crime, her last name might sound familiar. Ruhl is the daughter of legendary true-crime author Anne Ruhl, who wrote the book, The Stranger Beside Me,

about her friendship with Ted Bundy. Ruhl is carrying on the family tradition. Dave Krupa liked women. He made no secret about that, and he made no apologies. Dave Krupa was recently separated from Amy Floro, his long-term mate. They had two children together. They'd been together for 12 years.

And he was on his own for the first time in a very long time. Dave Krupa moved to Omaha in 2012. He got a small, kind of sad single-day apartment, and he got a job at an auto repair shop there. I didn't know how to venture back into the dating pool. I'd been out of it for a long time, so I felt pretty rusty. I was sitting in an apartment by myself

at the time with no furniture, so internet dating was the thing. That was the way to go. The first person Dave met on an online dating site was a woman by the name of Liz Galyar. Her full name is Shanna Elizabeth Galyar, but she went by her middle name, Liz. Liz was a single mother with two children

and her kids were about the same age as Dave's kids. She had a business, Liz's housekeeping. Liz loved taking selfies and sending them to her friends. I thought Liz was very pretty. I was attracted to her right away. So then we set up a date. Dave's first dates with Liz were at a coffee shop, and they just sat and chatted.

She was sexy, she was bright and shiny, and she was very engaging. They had a lot of fun together, they got along really well, and it was just a very casual thing. Dave was upfront. He absolutely did not want a commitment. He just wanted to have a little fun. And he was clear with every woman he met that that was the case. And Dave was starting to meet a lot of women. Mary, Kathy, Joyce, Beth, Margaret, Sandra. If the chemistry was there and the woman was willing, Dave was more than happy to explore a sexual relationship. I was kind of going wild, just, you know,

being free for the first time in a long time. But Dave's outlook on casual hookups changed when he met somebody the old-fashioned way, face-to-face in a chance encounter. Six months after I met Liz, I met the counter managing the shop and I'm the person greeting customers when I come in and an extremely attractive woman walks in the door. It's a woman named Carrie Farber. She brought her Ford Explorer into his shop to be worked on and she was beautiful. A light-hearted air about her. When we looked at each other there was a little spark, you know, we both smiled. You know, you feel that sometimes. Carrie Farber was a 37-year-old single mother

to a 14-year-old son. She was a computer programmer at a big firm in Omaha. She's showing me something inside the vehicle, and we're standing there, and we're very close, you know, within a couple inches of each other, and there's some tension. Carrie talked to me about meeting Dave, and she was like, you know,

this guy, totally not my type, but there was just something there. Then a few days later, he came across her profile on the same online dating site that he had used when he met Liz. So Carrie and I ended up going to Applebee's for our first date. We hit it off.

As we're getting up to leave, I asked Carrie if she wanted to come over and hang out. And she said, yeah. So we went back to my place, we shared a kiss, and then it got a little hotter and a little heavier. And then Carrie stopped and said, okay, if we're gonna do this and this and blind sex, that's all it is.

We're not my boyfriend, I'm not your girlfriend. I felt like I hit the jackpot with that. I couldn't have wrote it better. One slightly awkward thing, the night of Dave and Carrie's first date, Liz Goyer came by Dave's apartment to pick up some things that she'd left there. I walked Carrie out the front door, and she walked right by Liz, and they probably saw each other for six seconds. It was just a brief encounter, maybe 10 seconds or less, but this encounter would go on

to have lasting ramifications for all three of them. Carrie didn't seem at all bothered by her encounter with Liz. In fact, she didn't even mention it when she visited with her friend Amber. She said that during the date she had fun, and that she laughed a lot and hadn't laughed like that in a long time, with Liz. In fact, she didn't even mention it when she visited with her friend Amber. She said that during the date she had fun and that she laughed a lot and hadn't laughed like that in a long time and she didn't know what would happen, but it was working right

now. Sheri's job happened to be right around the corner from where I lived versus an hour from where she lives. She had a big project coming up at work. She was working very late hours. Dave offered for her to stay at his house so that she wouldn't have to make that commute back and forth. I mean, at this point, I've known her two weeks, and she's got a key to my apartment.

I was feeling pretty comfortable with her. November 13, 2012, Dave wakes up and gets ready for work. And about 6.30 AM, he leaves for work for the day. I give her a kiss, and I say, I'll see you later. When Dave said goodbye to Carrie that morning, he had absolutely no idea the nightmare that his life was about to turn into. My phone starts blowing up with texts from Carrie.

I hate you. You ruined my life. What is going on? I was blown away. November 13, 2012. Dave Krupa wakes up and gets ready for work. And about 6.30 a.m., he gives Carrie a kiss and he leaves for work for the day. Carrie Farber was his girlfriend of two weeks and they were getting along so well that she sometimes spent the night at his apartment.

It was conveniently close to her work, which was just half a mile away. She's on the couch, got her laptop out, she's doing her thing. So I gotta go to work, so I give her a kiss and I say, I'll see you later. I had expected to see Carrie that evening. Mid-morning, Dave received a text

and he glanced at it, it was a message from Carrie. She texts me and says, let's move in together, which was very left field because we had already talked about that not happening. As soon as I can, I text her back and says, let's move in together, which was very left field, because we had already talked about that not happening. As soon as I can, I text her back and say, I'm not interested, I can't do that. We haven't known each other nearly long enough for that. And almost immediately I get a message back that says,

fine, I hate you, I'm dating someone else, I don't want to see you anymore. You know, go away, Lots of profanity. I didn't know what to think. I was blown away. She just changed very quickly from the fun and happy person that he had known just that morning. It was a day, maybe a day and a half of radio silence

and then my phone starts blowing up with texts from Carrie. Along the lines of, I hate you, you ruined my life, you're a terrible person. I thought, okay, I don't need this in my life. I dodged a bullet. They'd been dating for just two weeks, and he figured that maybe she'd been putting on an act, and she wasn't who he thought she was.

So who was Carrie Farber? She grew up in this small town called Macedonia, Iowa. Macedonia is a very small town. It's a very nice place to raise kids because you can let your kids walk down the street without worrying. They can ride their bikes around town and just a friendly place to live. Carrie was very close to her mother Nancy. They talked every day.

She had a lot of friends. She was very gregarious. By all accounts, Carrie lived fully. When you look at the photograph, she's vivacious, her hairstyles are constantly changing, she's experimenting with her look and with her life. You notice Carrie when she walked into her room she had a laugh, she had a smile, you were drawn to her. In an interview that Carrie did with her local paper for her high school graduation, she said she wanted to be known as always having a smile on her face and for being a little

bit crazy. And all of her friends and family say Carrie was whip smart. Early on, she was, I mean, even in high school, I remember Carrie being amazing with numbers and computers. There was a turning point in Carrie's life when she was 22 years old and got pregnant. The relationship with the father didn't work out, and Carrie became a single mom. She decided she was going to bring the baby up by herself.

She was going to have that baby no matter what and be the best mom she could be. Max was always at the forefront of what Carrie did. He was her number one. She just doted on him all the time. But I think she was a little overwhelmed just being on her own in her late 20s. She started developing depression.

Carrie had been diagnosed in her 20s with bipolar disorder. There was one point when she just pretty much was underneath the covers for a good week, maybe 10 days. She was scared about it, but at the same time knew that she was taking all the steps that she needed to, to keep it in check and under control. She had been seeing therapists and was on medication. There was a couple of times when she just, she would stop taking the medication because she said,

Mom, it just, I feel like I'm just numb. But by 2012, Carrie was in a very good place. She landed a good job as a computer programmer. She was super excited and talked a lot about how that was going to be kind of a life changer for her and for Max being able to provide in a better way. Max was just going into high school. Carrie was so excited about classes he was taking

and the sports that he was playing. You gotta ride the waves, Max. She was his cheerleader. There's some video of Carrie urging on Max as he's water skiing. Carrie also had a new guy she was dating, Dave Krupa. In November, Carrie asked her mother Nancy to keep her son Max for a few days while she

stayed with Dave so she could be closer to work. Right around the same time that Dave got the text from Carrie asking to move in, Carrie sent a text to her mother Nancy. I started getting text messages that said that she was taking a job in Kansas, which totally threw me. When I said something to Max about it, he said, well, she had kind of looked at a job down in Kansas. He thought possibly there was a job down there she went to. So I texted her back, and she would not call me and talk to me.

Normally, I would talk to her at least once a day. It was starting to concern me that she wasn't calling me. But Nancy figured she'd see Carey soon, because Carey's half brother was getting married in just a few days. Her son, Max, was to be an usher, and she promised Max that she would return for the wedding. I was needing to know when she was going to pick up her son to go to this wedding.

She wasn't answering me. Carrie didn't show up to pick up Max, and she didn't call. Everybody was stunned. That was the final straw for Nancy. That's when I reported her missing. I called the sheriff's office and they had somebody come out and they took my report. Nancy mentioned to the police that Carrie had been diagnosed as bipolar. I said, well yes, she was on medication.

The police jumped on that and said when somebody who's bipolar stops taking their meds, sometimes it can start some really erratic behavior. They didn't take it too seriously. She was a grown woman. She was still communicating with people. I just wasn't getting a very urgent reaction from the police, and they just weren't concerned about it. reaction from the police and they just weren't concerned about it.

Things are going to get stranger and scarier. Kerry writes, my favorite thing to do is stand outside your window and stare at you. Don't know how many times I changed my phone number. She was no longer just ranting at a boyfriend that things didn't go well with. She was flat out stalking him. What do you do when somebody invades every space of your life? This man's life is about to become terrifying. What had he done to make her hate him so much? In the space of a couple of hours,

she had gone from what seemed like the perfect woman to a spiteful, foul-mouthed nut. Carrie Farber is nowhere to be found. Her family is bewildered, and the police are suspecting she might be having some sort of breakdown. and the police are suspecting she might be having some sort of breakdown. As for Dave Krupa, in the days since receiving her first bizarre text messages, he receives a barrage of angry messages. She started texting him a bunch of profanities, calling him names,

telling him she hated him. They were bad and they were just all about how bad of a person I am. Carrie was acting like a woman scorn. Her messages were filled with jealousy and rage. Carrie's rage seems to be focused on his on-again, off-again ex-girlfriend, Liz, who he had dated before Carrie. Which is confusing to Dave, because Carrie seemed to be so unaffected by her first interaction with Liz.

And Carrie is contacting Liz directly, too. Liz gets into contact with me and says that now Carrie is harassing her via text and email. She was very upset. She wanted to know how this woman that she just had this chance encounter with at Dave's apartment got her phone number, got her email. One day, Liz arrived home from work to find that her garage had been vandalized. Upon pulling into the garage, she found that someone had written, whore from Dave, on the inside of her garage in spray paint. Liz calls the police and files a report.

When Liz tells police that the common link between herself and Carey is Dave Krupa, they decide to pay him a visit. The police show up at my work looking for me, and they didn't look very friendly. I was the last known person, or at least the assumed last person, to see her. As soon as they're looking at me with those police van eyes, that got me pretty rattled. You know, I pulled out my phone and said, at me with those police van eyes that got me pretty rattled.

You know, I pulled out my phone and said, no, she's lost her mind. She's going crazy. She's harassing me. Their tone certainly changed from an accusatory one to, oh, okay, we've seen this before. Meanwhile, back in Iowa, Carrie's mom doesn't know about any of this. All she knows is that her daughter's missing. Carrie's mother had filed the missing person report with the police, and she was becoming increasingly concerned with each passing day.

In the weeks after she left, Carrie was still communicating with her family. She would send text messages to her mother, Nancy. When I'd get text messages, I would just say, please call me. I just need to hear your voice. And she would say, well, this has got to be good enough for you. And Maxwell started getting texts saying, we're going to be moving you down to Kansas.

You're going to go to school down there. And he was really scared. It was just shocking to me. Nancy is so concerned that she takes over guardianship of Max in Carrie's absence. In addition to her brother's wedding, Carrie was missing more family events. She was absent for her own birthday.

She missed Thanksgiving. She wasn't around when her son Max turned 15. She even missed her son Max turned 15. She even missed her own father's funeral and when she didn't come home for that her mother knew that something was very, very wrong. Carrie texted, I'm sorry I missed the funeral. Nancy responded, the only way I will know that this is you is if you call me and I hear your voice. The weather had changed and was starting to get colder. We went into her house, and I noticed her winter coat

was sitting on the chair. And I thought, she doesn't have any warm clothes on her. What is she going to do? How is she getting along? Where is she eating? What is she doing? It was terrifying. It was scary not knowing where she is.

OK, maybe she had gone off her meds. There had been times in the past when she had thought, maybe I don't need these. The texts got mean at one point, too, and saying that I wasn't a good mother and that I was controlling. In the middle of that bleak winter, only one thing was certain, people were afraid.

While Carrie's family was afraid for her, Dave Krupa was growing afraid of her. I would regularly receive 60 plus texts a day, a hundred emails a day. It was not uncommon. And as far as phone calls, hundreds of hundreds. And I had changed phone numbers so many times, it was ridiculous. Carrie would refer to Liz in her messages.

She is nothing. She's a fat cow. She looks like she lost her puppy. Maybe she'll do us all a favor and kill herself. LOL. She wrote to Liz, if you don't keep your hands and lips off my man, I will hurt you.

And she seems to be everywhere. On one specific occasion, I was sitting in my Lazy Boy with my feet up, watching TV, trying to relax, and it's nighttime. And I get a text saying, I see you, you're sitting in your chair with your feet propped up, wearing a blue shirt, and those things were true. She was no longer just ranting at a boyfriend

that things didn't go well with. She was flat out stalking him. Carrie writes, my favorite thing to do is stand outside your window and stare at you. Then finally there's a clue. One night in January, about two months after all of this started, Dave came home from work and there was a vehicle in the parking lot. He got closer to the vehicle and he recognized it to be Kerry's Ford Explorer because he knew it very well that was how they met. He had worked on the vehicle. So I took a picture of the license plate sent it to the police. He had no idea at the time how big of a piece of evidence this would turn out to

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fees on net new deposits until the end of 2025. Lower fees means you can keep more of your money where it belongs, in your account. Don't wait. Opening an account is quick and easy. Switch to Quest Wealth Portfolios today and keep more of your money. Conditions apply. In the weeks following Carrie Farver's disappearance, police in two different states are trying to find her, but for two totally different reasons.

The police in Iowa are looking for Carrie Farver as a missing person. But less than five miles away in Nebraska, just across the Missouri River, police are looking for Carrie Farver as a stalker, somebody that is harassing Dave Krupa and Liz Golyer. They're all trying to find Carrie Farver. The best clue so far is Dave's discovery of Carrie's Ford Explorer. The police searched the car, and they found no fingerprints except for one.

There was a mint container found in the car. It had one perfect fingerprint on it. But that fingerprint didn't match Carrie, and it didn't match anyone in the FBI's national database. So that lead, so far, is a bust. But Carrie's mother, Nancy, doesn't need evidence. She knew in her gut that something had happened to her child.

I'd lay awake at night because every kind of scenario was going through your head as to what had happened. After Carrie's father Dennis died, Nancy Rainey had a dream, and he appeared in that dream. I had a very, very, very vivid dream that Dennis had come to me. And he said, Nancy, don't worry about her. She's with me. But of course, I always kept hoping that we'd find her, that she was okay.

And then about five months after Carrie disappeared, Nancy gets this astounding phone call. I get the call from a gentleman that says that Carrie is at this Sienna Francis homeless shelter and that she wants you to come pick her up. My heart just started. I was just so shaking and I thought, oh my God, we're going to bring her home. She's going to be OK. This was the first big lead they had since the finding of Carrie's vehicle that they thought might lead to finding her.

So we go over there, and we meet up with the investigator. The police had met them there, and they asked Nancy to wait in the car while they went in. And they came back out a few minutes later shaking their heads. Carrie wasn't there. It was such a letdown and I was just devastated. I get this, just raising my hopes and then it's dashed again. Carrie's friend Amber also got a message from Carrie

saying that she finally wants to come home. She said, hey, I made a really big mistake and I took off for a while and I'm ready to come home now. And I was like, I'm here, let's get you home. I could never get her to say that she would meet me anywhere. Kerry's son, Max, is losing hope. But just in case, he reached out to his mom on Facebook.

All it said was hi. And she immediately wrote him back. Hey, little man, how are you? He asked her to answer three questions to prove that it was really her. What his middle name was, what the name of their first boxer was, and what his best friend's name was.

And she never responded to that message. Then Carrie posts on Facebook, I've answered enough questions to prove myself. I'm not missing, I just don enough questions to prove myself. I'm not missing. I just don't want to come home right now. MUSIC Meanwhile, the stalking of Dave Krupa and Liz Golyer has been escalating.

As the months went on, he'd received thousands of texts and emails threatening him. The messages said things like, I hate you so much, I want to drive a knife through your heart. Hey, you lose your... so am I ruining your life yet? Dave and Liz referred to Carey as Crazy Carey. That was what we would say, Crazy Carey.

Oh, Crazy Carey this. Oh, I got another email from Crazy Carey. The trauma that they were both going through brought them back together, and they started dating again. Rude, hostile messages come into both of their phones as they're both together. It was actually extremely common for us to be hanging out, and both of our phones would start blowing up

with text messages and emails from Carrie. He had to admit he was impressed by Liz's loyalty. She was pissed at him for inviting a lunatic into their lives, but she was still there. And as this was going on, Dave is becoming almost numb to all this crazy stuff that's happening almost every day. I get an email, and it's a picture of what looks like Liz tied up in the trunk of a car.

And it says, I have Liz tied up in the trunk of the car, and you need to call her right now and tell her you hate her. She's a whore. Otherwise, I'm going to kill her. I call Liz, and I say, hey, you're not tied up in the trunk of a car, are you? No, no, ha ha. All right, good, good night.

And at that point it was just another day. It just wasn't even shocking anymore. Carrie even emailed Dave with a link to an obituary for Liz. In it she writes, I didn't know her very well, except that she was a whore and a man-stealer. Thank God she is gone. But as crazy as a fake obituary is,

things get even creepier and deadlier. ["The Last Supper"] I get a call from Liz, frantic, freaking out. My house is on fire, somebody's burned my house down. I go over to Liz's house and there's fire trucks all up and down the street and there's firemen walking around and there's hoses and they're pouring water into place. Luckily her children were not home, but many of her belongings were still there, including two dogs, a cat, and a snake,

and they all were killed in this fire. There is audio of the officer at the scene talking to Liz about the fire. From what I've seen so far looking inside, this is pretty obvious this isn't intentionally set fire. The guy that I've seen, he has a girlfriend he dated for two weeks. And she's been stalking me since November. Do you know her name?

It's Carrie. C-A-R-I. She has made threats towards me and my kids. She would text me telling me she wanted to kill me and my kids. You would think they were married as much as she's stalking me. She won't leave me alone. She will not go away. I just wish she would go away. I felt very bad for Liz because I felt like

I brought this crazy person into her life. Two months later, Carrie strikes again. Dave's auto shop is vandalized with a message for everyone to see. Dave beats women in fluorescent orange spray paint. I tripped out. I mean, this is my job and this is on a main street. Dave became a nervous wreck. He purchased a gun. He was always on edge. He purchased a gun. He was always on edge. It makes you paranoid. You can't rest, you can't relax.

You're always wondering when something else is gonna happen and if it's gonna escalate. We were in bed getting ready to go to sleep, and the next thing I hear... sounded like a gunshot. On the one-year anniversary of their first date, Carrie Farber sends Dave Krupa a message to my husband. The email included a photograph of a knife

and a note saying that she'd been creeping around in his building. The stalking at that point was quite apparent that she had been in and around the building. Dave Krupa and Liz Gullier have been the focus of Carrie's stalking for over a year now. And this has bonded them, but their relationship isn't really serious.

We were seeing each other, but she was doing her thing and I was doing mine. Dave has actively been trying to meet other women online, but it seems that Carrie doesn't want that to happen. One woman who I never actually met, she spent five minutes on my Facebook, and that was all it took. She was a target, threatened to be killed,

threatened to have their children killed. It was insanity. Kerry seems to be monitoring his every move and keeping a close eye on his female friends. In January of 2014, I drove from Sioux Falls to Omaha to visit with Dave. I have known Dave since high school. Dave and I have just always had a special connection.

We've always been more than friends. We were in the living room of the apartment, just chatting old times. Within a couple of hours, his phone was going off, and he was like, I'm sorry. We were in the living room of the apartment, just chatting old times. Within a couple of hours, his phone was going crazy. Apparently, Carrie saw her come in. I actually got a text to the effect of, I see you in there with that whore.

He told me that he was having issues with an ex that was stalking him. A few hours later, we were in bed, getting ready to go to sleep. And the next thing I hear sounded like a gunshot to me, which was actually a brick being thrown through the bathroom window. I was in a panic.

I didn't know what was happening. Police, they came over and talked to Dave for a few minutes. After the police left, Dave had me get into the car with him, and he said he needed to go check on Liz because Carrie had threatened Liz in the past prior to this incident with me. Despite all this drama, Liz Goyer is not scared off,

and she and Dave try to just kind of go on with their lives, even going on a double date with her friend Cherokee. They were great together, Dave and Liz. They joked around. I know Liz wanted more, but she wasn't that type of person that wasn't gonna push herself onto someone. The stalking by Kerry is this dark cloud in their lives.

They've been trying to get help from investigators for more than a year, but nothing puts a stop to the harassment. And it's not just Dave and Liz that are being harassed. Dave's ex and the mother of his children, Amy Flora, was also getting threatening messages from Carrie. Calling her all sorts of names. calling her all sorts of names. I thought Amy was probably going to kill me because she got drug into it.

Mentally, it was a huge strain on everybody involved. Nothing was being done about it. The police had dropped it off at some point. So it was just something I had to deal with. Being stalked in her house was just part of life. The case had become cold. Detectives Ryan Avis and Jim Doty worked at the Pottawatomie County Sheriff's Office

in Council Bluffs. Neither Avis nor Doty had actually been working on the case of the missing Carrie Farber, but they'd been aware of it in the police department. We'd heard about the case. It was kind of water cooler talk around the office. It intrigued us because it was a single mom who was very into her kid and family, and it just didn't make sense to us that she just vanished. Is there more to it, and is there something else that we're not seeing?

It was something that we were both interested in just talking about it, but we didn't have the case file. You don't usually go and volunteer for a case, but this intrigued us enough that we asked, hey, can we take a look at it and see if we could put a fresh new look on it. Doty and Avis asked their superiors if they could take another look at the Carey Farber case. And so they began looking at it from a new angle. Jim's going to work it like she's dead,

and I'm going to work it like she's alive. I'm going to try and prove every which way I can that Carey is still alive and is out there, and Jim's going to try and prove every which way that that Carrie is still alive and is out there, and Jim's gonna try and prove every which way that she is not. Carrie's checking account had no activity. It's not normal for adults to just up and leave and literally spend no money.

No one's seen them, and no one's heard their voice. It just didn't make sense. And one of the things about these text messages, they don't look like they're written by Carrie. They're filled with spelling errors and grammatical errors. And her mother said Carrie never would have sent messages like that. Detectives Doty and Avis were aware that Carrie had been diagnosed as bipolar, but they didn't think it had anything to do with why she went missing.

How many people in the world are bipolar, and they don't just go missing for no reason, whether they take their meds or don't take their meds. And life had been good for Carrie Farver. In fact, it had never been better. She had a good income, a good house. I had come to the conclusion that I could not prove she was actually alive. This is a turning point in this because they start to contemplate the idea, could it be that she's actually been dead this entire time?

So if Carrie Farver was dead, what happened to her after she left Dave's apartment on that early morning two years before? The decision made by Doty and Avis to reopen the case would be a true turning point. If not for detectives Doty and Avis, chances are this case would never have been solved. They smelled a big fish, a big problem, something really weird.

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This is a bizarre and twisted case of a fatal attraction. It's about an obsessive woman that would stop at nothing to get what she wanted. There's just another one of her schemes to bring Dave back into her life and make herself look like a victim. How did I not see anything? How could I be so naive or so stupid or so gullible? It changed us from a missing persons investigation

to now it's a homicide investigation. Is there anyone that you think would want to hurt Carrie? How could this person do this to my daughter? For what reason? The key to the case is figuring out if Carrie is not alive, who has been actually sending these messages to Dave and to Liz? This isn't good.

So now this person is armed. They've already proven to be dangerous. It was like the killer wanted to keep a keepsake of what she had done. It was just chilling. Holy Christ, this is despicable. With no body, no murder weapon, no witnesses. I mean, what?

By the spring of 2015, 37-year-old single mom, Carrie Farver, has been missing for over two years. Nobody has seen her and nobody has heard her voice. The only sign of her was through texts and email. These include hundreds of violent and threatening text messages sent to her ex, Dave Krupa, and his on-again-off-again girlfriend, Liz Gawlier, also known as Shanna. A lot of people thought she'd just gone off her meds and she was, you know, just went off the deep end and left. But I knew that that's not what happened. Carrie's mother, Nancy, is convinced that something terrible has happened to her daughter.

Nancy was really frustrated. She felt the police weren't taking her concerns seriously. While maternal instinct is the most powerful of intuitions, it's not unusual for a mother's concerns to be ignored. Carrie's mother was not the first woman in the throes of panic to be ignored by people in a position to help. I knew what my daughter was like, and she wouldn't stay away this long. Something has happened.

It was as if nobody believed Nancy that something terrible had happened to Carrie until detectives Jim Doty and Ryan Avis appeared on the case. By the time Avis and Doty took over, the case had become cold. What we did first was just go back to the case file. We started looking through everything that the previous investigator had. To me, the thing that was glaring was Liz. This lady had no involvement in Carrie's life

until all of a sudden she went missing. According to Liz, she only met Carrie once in this brief encounter outside of Dave's apartment. All of a sudden she's this focus of harassment. Her name was all over all the reports. So to me, there was something with Liz. She definitely was a person of interest. Key to the case at this point is figuring out if Kerry is not alive, who has been actually sending

these messages to Dave and to Liz? Myself and Ryan were not digital experts at all, so we had to call one of our co-workers, Tony Cava, who's our digital forensic expert, and had him come in and start working the case hand-in-hand with us. Carey, or the person, the imposter who was pretending to be Cary, sent Dave about 15,000 email messages over a three-year span. We knew these messages don't seem to really be coming from Cary Farber, and that was the initial mystery. So I thought, there's got to be a way we can track down this digital activity.

When Liz was getting all of these messages through the course of investigation, she actually gave her phone to police and allowed them to dump all her files and review them. Jim and I had the advantage of being the second pair of eyes to look at it and go back over to other details that were maybe overseen. One of the things they found when they downloaded

Liz's phone was a photograph of Carrie Farber's Ford Explorer. We looked at the metadata of that photo, and it was taken about a month before police even recovered her vehicle. So somehow Liz knew where Carrie's vehicle was before law enforcement even did. Another thing we found on the phone download, there were six calls that were made to Carrie's residence.

It was using the star six seven prefix to disguise the number. And so Liz was calling Carrie six times. This didn't make sense to us because she said she'd only met Carrie one time passing through a hallway. We found an email that Carrie had sent to Dave Krupa. It consisted of a picture of a woman who was tied up. We found that picture of that bound woman in Liz's phone,

and the metadata showed it was taken from Liz's phone. They realized that Liz had put duct tape on her own mouth, had tied up her own hands, and crawled into the trunk of a car. tied up her own hands and crawled into the trunk of a car. I wanted to go talk to Nancy and tell her that I believed her. I believed her daughter didn't just vanish, that her daughter didn't just leave her and her son alone, that I believe somebody was responsible for what happened to Carrie.

But I couldn't tell her everything we knew at that time because it was still an active case. When he called, he said, can I come out and talk to you? And I was just a little bit short with him because I thought, you haven't done anything so far. What are you gonna do now? I said, okay.

So he came out. And he said, I just want you to know. He said, I don't think she left on her own free will. And that was the first time anybody in his authority position had told me that. She was happy to know that we had reopened the case and that we had made some progress. I honestly felt like maybe something

was gonna happen now. And this visit leads to Doty and Avis looking at yet another clue. It's a clue that had come up earlier, but now with Liz Gawlier in their sights as a suspect, their fresh eyes make all the difference. So when we went to interview Nancy, she informed us that she had received a picture of a check via text message. Right after Carrie disappeared, Nancy got a text from her and it said that she had sold all of her furniture and she

wanted Nancy to let the buyer into the house to let them pick it up. I'm to help this person go into her house and get her furniture out of there. And here's the check. She texts me a picture of a check from a person that was made out to carry. And it was signed,

Shanna Golyer, which we knew Liz Golyer, real name was Shanna. And this signature is yet another link between these two women, Carrie and Liz, who were supposed to be strangers. Granted we didn't give us any answers on what had happened to Carrie, but we knew Liz knew more than she was telling us. All signs were pointing back to Liz. And then Liz herself goes to police with a new suspect. I look down the hallway, and I see another investigator

walking Liz down our hallway. And she says she's come to this stunning realization. It might not have been Carrie Farver harassing her all along. Police have been taking a close look at Liz Gullier. All of the investigating they had done was leading them to the idea that Carrie Farber was dead and Liz had been impersonating her this entire time. Looking at Liz's phone download we had the picture of Carrie's vehicle. We had

the star six seven phone calls that Liz had placed to Carrie's home phone number. And there's one more piece of evidence. That mystery fingerprint left in Carrie's car. But so far, police can't find a match in their database. One of the things we did when we took the case is we had that fingerprint compared to Liz's fingerprints. And it was a match. Doty delivered startling news to Dave Krupa.

He told him that they suspected that Liz Gullier was pretending to be Carrie. Police had come to me and said, Liz is the culprit, but I still hadn't seen any evidence myself. I was either trying to ignore the whole thing or trying to understand how this person I spent so much time with could be this other person I didn't know. He never questioned his stalker's identity. She said she was Carrie, so who else could it be? Dave would receive messages from Carrie while he and Liz were together.

So Dave thought, how could Liz be the stalker? Meanwhile, police can't prove that Liz murdered Carrie, and there still isn't enough for an arrest. At this point, police get a lucky break. In December of 2015, Liz Goyer walked into the Pottawatomie County Sheriff's Office. I look down the hallway, and I see another investigator walking Liz down our hallway and into his office.

So I eavesdrop a little bit. I hear Liz telling the other investigator something about a harassment report. Liz leaves and Detective Avis sees an opening. Liz Gallier coming to us and wanting to talk about something was a huge moment and an opportunity that we could not miss. Within 30 minutes of Liz leaving our office, I hop in my truck and I drove to her house in Council Bluffs and just knocked on the door.

She opened the door and I told her I was an investigator with the sheriff's office and I had heard she had stopped in. Hi, was it Shannon? Yeah, or Liz. And I told her that I didn't have a heavy caseload at the time, and I'd be more than happy to help her with whatever report that she had tried to file. She let me come in, we sat down and talked. My sergeant you had just talked to, and he said that you were trying to file harassment?

Yeah, harassment. The reports have been made against Carrie Fever. Carrie F favorite? She used to date, yes, F-A-R-T-E-R. I knew who Carrie was, obviously, and I just played dumb. I wanted her to think that I had no clue of what she was talking about, just to lower her guard.

She used to date my boyfriend only for about two weeks. Liz tells Avis she's come to this stunning realization. It might not have been Carrie Favre harassing her all along. She believed that it hadn't been Carrie who was stalking Dave all this time after all. In fact, she believed it was Amy Flora, Dave's ex. Amy Flora is Dave Krupa's ex-girlfriend and also the mother of his children. All these years Liz thought she had been harassed by Carrie but now she thought maybe it was actually Amy this whole time pretending to be Carrie and that

would make more sense, right? They only dated for two weeks and I don't understand why a person would still be stalking him almost three years later. It's getting ridiculous. She keeps stalking me on Facebook. So Amy still would like to be with Dave? I'm guessing. I don't know. Okay. I'll go through. I just want her to leave me alone. I then request, hey, could I do a download of your phone to extract those messages?

We have a machine that'll plug in your phone. Sign right there. You're giving me consent to retrieve information. In that moment, I was so giddy, like, I can't believe I'm going to download her phone, and she's just going to hand it over to me. When Liz's phone was downloaded in 2013, Liz was a victim reporting a stalker.

So only the current information was downloaded. Now, however, she was a suspect, and she was unaware that detectives had the ability to download everything on the phone, even things she thought she had deleted. I ran it straight to Tony Kava. Tony Kava, who is the forensic digital expert, is going to actually start examining her phone.

But in the meantime, there is an even more pressing concern. Dave Krupa's gun is missing. I purchased a pistol for self-protection in case Carrie would come in the house with ill intent towards me or my children. Dave came home one evening and noticed something was amiss. The box that I kept the weapon in, it's been moved. My stomach drops.

I'm just, oh no. I open the box, the weapon is missing. So I immediately call the police and tell them I have a firearm stolen. Liz had mentioned the missing gun to Detective Avis. She implied that Amy Flora was the thief. This isn't good. Now this person is armed.

They've already proven to be dangerous. It was a heart-stopping moment. The missing gun was in the hands of someone who was about to pull the trigger. One person in the process of your emergency. On December 5, 2015, six days after Dave's gun was stolen, a call was placed to police from Big Lake Park in Council Bluffs, Iowa. It was Liz Golyer.

She had been shot, and she was bleeding alone on the walking trail in the dark. 911, what's the address of your emergency? Oh, yeah, I've been shot in the leg. Oh, Jesus. Liz Gawlier came here to clear her head and walked out about halfway on this bridge and was approached by a female, she said. And the female came up behind her and said,

how do you like Dave? And then told her to lay on the ground and shot her in the leg. Liz was shot in the thigh. I didn't do any permanent damage. There was a lot of blood, and she was rushed to the hospital by ambulance. At the beginning, Liz said she didn't know who shot her, but she kind of changed that story

and eventually said Amy Flora shot her. Amy Flora, Dave's ex and the mother of his two kids. To police, this story makes very little sense. When I learned that Liz Golyer had been shot out here, I found it highly suspicious that the day before she felt the need to tell me that Dave Krupa's gun had been stolen too. And less than 24 hours later, she was shot. I mean, it's just odd, to say the least. I never believed that Amy Flora shot Liz Gawlier ever. She had an alibi, and the evidence just didn't point

to there being anyone else in the park that night. It was pretty quickly determined that most likely, Liz Gawlier had shot herself. Amy Flora was cleared nearly immediately that evening. Another one of her schemes to bring Dave back into her life and make herself look like a victim. When the shooting happened, this is finally when Dave gets it. At this point, Dave can no longer deny the truth.

It's Liz, not Carrie, who's been tormenting and stalking him for all these years. It was undeniable at that point. I knew it was her, and I knew it had to be my gun. I was, like, running into a brick wall in a race car. It'd be like if gravity just failed. God. I was like running into a brick wall in a race car. It'd be like if gravity just failed. The first thing my mind did was start

to go back to all the things that had happened over all these years. And how did I not see anything? And how could I be so naive or so stupid or so gullible? Everything you thought you knew was a lie. For Dave, the frustration at this point is overwhelming. An update on an arrestor soon. I'm gonna chill her.

Deputy Tony Kava is actually on a mission to prove Liz is the culprit. He has the recent download of Liz Gawlier's phone and all of the messages that are supposedly been sent from Carrie Farber. He's spending hours of his own free time, and all of the messages that are supposedly been sent from Carrie Farber. He's spending hours of his own free time, more than 3,000 hours, trying to decipher where those messages actually

came from. Liz signed up for upwards of 20 or 30 fake addresses that say they're Carrie Farber. And there are different variations on Carrie's name or even her real email address. Some of the very first ones came from CarrieFarber at gmail.com. I mean, they were, they would,

if you didn't look very closely and you received this message, you would think it was from the real Carrie Farber. His patience and his persistence pay off, and eventually he is able to trace the messages right back to Liz Gullier. Every account that we look at, every impersonated message, every text message, there's always a connection back

to an account that she has, to a device that she has, or to her house. Kava also discovered that part of her ruse, Liz was using an app, which actually allowed her to send messages and receive them at a later time. She was able to send messages pretending to be Carrie, and they would arrive while she was sitting on the couch next to Dave.

From Dave's point of view, Liz couldn't have sent it because she was sitting next to him the whole time. It gave a perfect alibi to Liz. This must have taken Liz 40 hours a week, 50 hours a week. This seemed to be a full-time occupation for her, trying to stalk people and send them messages. For Dody and Avis, the mission at this point is to get more evidence to speed up the investigation.

We brought her in for an interview about two weeks after she was shot. Dody tells her he's working on a missing person case. They're trying to find Carrie Farber. The case is regarding Carrie Farber. The case is regarding Carrie Farber. Are you familiar with her? I barely even know her.

Yeah, yeah. I ran into her one time. OK, OK. I was just bypassing her, going into Dave's apartment to pick up my stuff. OK. We devolved a bit of a ruse that we were going to employ on Liz. We were going to tell her that we had found remains,

that we believed were Carrie. We've had a pretty significant break in the case, okay? There have been some remains that have been located. The initial indication is that these remains are Carrie. Okay, is there anyone that you think would want to hurt Carrie? I didn't know her long enough to know if anybody wanted to hurt her.

Liz then, again, shifts the blame away from Carrie Farber towards Amy Flora. She was with him for 12 years. And she still goes in and out of his life all the time. So. Yeah. So you think she could have been the person that did some of that stuff to you?

I'm just saying, as another person who would be possessive of Dave, it would be to you? I'm just saying, as another person who would be possessive of Dave, it would be her. When I'm sitting across from Liz, I knew most likely she was a murderer. Even though she didn't look intimidating, that was always in the back of my mind. I knew that she was responsible for whatever happened to Carrie.

And I knew in order for us to solve this, she was going to have to believe that I genuinely thought Amy was responsible for all of it. In my head, I'm thinking if she was bold enough to go and then shoot you, OK, she could easily be bold enough to have done something to Carrie. And that's where Detective Doty tells her that he needs her help to get Amy

to confess to Carrie's murder. We told Liz, if you get any type of messages from Amy to have anything to do with what confess to Carrie's murder. We told Liz if you get any type of messages from Amy to have anything to do with what happened to Carrie, to let us know. That's like gold to me if we had something like that. Because then we could start building a case. We knew she'd give us that information because she wants to see Amy out of the picture. She wants to see Amy in jail. Police are hoping Liz will incriminate herself,

give up details about the murder, and possibly lead them to the body. This is a genius move by the police. The question is, is it gonna work? All right, thank you much, I appreciate it. You're welcome. ["Sweet Chocolate"] McPops from McCafe are a new sweet treat

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Rate is annual, calculated daily, and will vary based on account balance. Visit scotiabank.com slash right size savings for full details. Liz Golyer had no idea that the investigators were on her tail and they wanted to keep it that way. Liz always believed that she was smarter than the police. She thought she could out-box them. Unfortunately for her, she ran into Doty and Avis,

and they set a clever trap. Detective Doty enlists Liz to help him get Amy to confess to Carey's murder. And of course, the police know that Amy has nothing to do with Carey's murder, and that she's not involved in this in any way. The role I tried to play was that I wanted to solve Carrie's homicide

and I believed Amy was responsible. And so we told Liz, if you get any type of messages from Amy that have anything to do with what happened to Carrie, to let us know. It took just a few days for Liz to play right into their hand. We started receiving messages that she said were from Amy, where Amy confesses to shooting Liz at Big Lake Park. The emails said, I shot you, Liz, to make sure

Dave stayed away from you. I got rid of the gun. But what Detective Doty really needs are the details about the final moments of Carrie Farver's life. He explains this in a phone call to Liz. See if you could kind of push her for some more info on the Carrie thing. What she did to Carrie and so forth like that, that would help our case immensely if it was

more specific. So you guys want me to try and email her back? I'm leaving that in your court, Liz. I mean, if that's something you would feel OK doing, that'd be really helpful for us. Just a few days later, Liz forwards a new email. This one, she also also says is from Amy, and it's got details about Carrie's murder.

When I met Crazy Carrie, she would not stop talking about Dave and him being her husband. She tried to attack me, but I attacked her with a knife. I stabbed her three or four times in the chest and stomach area, and then took her out and burned her. I stuffed her body in a garbage can with crap.

The details were bone-chilling, because they were graphic. At this point, Detectives Doty and Avis pushed Liz almost to the breaking point and used her obsession over Dave Krupa against her. Liz Golyer's worst nightmare was Dave Krupa getting back together with Amy Flora and potentially reestablishing their relationship. So we decided that maybe we could nudge Dave Krupa getting back together with Amy Flora and potentially reestablishing their relationship. So we decided that maybe we could nudge Dave Krupa

into moving in with Amy. Shortly after that happens, I get a call from Liz. She's bawling on the phone, and she's so upset that Amy isn't in prison yet. Looks like the only person that benefited was her. So she gets to shoot somebody, and then she gets to kill another person. And then she gets to move in with Dave,

and she gets to be free. And you guys are arresting her. Liz presses Jodi on why the Amy confession email isn't enough evidence to have her arrested. It's very graphic on what she did to her, and she's still not arrested. Trying to build a case, it's very difficult. I would tell Liz, hey, we need more information,

things that only the killer would know. Within days, more Amy confessions appeared. She writes, I really did kill Carrie, and I did do it in her own car. These emails gave us Carrie's vehicle as a crime scene. So what we wanted to do is go back and look at that vehicle to determine if that crime happened there. This is the third time this car has been searched,

but this time the police actually know what they're looking for. We opened up this door. We pulled out the passenger seat, and we pulled off the fabric off that passenger seat, and that's where we found that big red stain right in the bottom of the seat. It was a positive test for human blood. I felt like we had located the murder scene finally.

Tangible evidence finally instead of digital evidence. We took the DNA from the blood that we found on the seat and it was a match for Carrie Farber's DNA. It's a huge moment. It changed us from a missing persons investigation and now it's a homicide investigation. Omaha police are now pulled into the case since that's where the murder likely happened.

I'm a cold case detective in the Omaha Police Department Homicide Unit. Can you take a handcuff, sir? Detective Schneider wanted to talk to Liz. She had a warrant for an unpaid traffic citation, so that gave him an excuse to actually go arrest her and bring her in. The reason why you're brought down here in handcuffs

is because you have a misdemeanor warrant here in Douglas The reason why you were brought down here in handcuffs is because you have a misdemeanor on your double scalpel. Now once she's actually in the interview chair, Detective Snyder tells her the real subject of their interview that day, Carrie Farber. Now, the reason why you're in this chair right now today is because you have a lot of questions that you need to answer for me

Her phone was at your house right after she disappeared And I'm gonna ask you how you can explain that to me, please. She's never been to my house Your fingerprints are inside her vehicle. How would your fingerprints be inside her vehicle? I don't know because I've never been in her car. You drove her car? No, I didn't. I've never been inside her car. I've never even been around her car, ever. You have Pranger prints right there. No, I haven't.

I'm not lying. I've never been around her car. I've never even seen it. She definitely was giving me the evil eye. She was upset, you could tell, by being confronted. For years and years, people have been sending emails under Carrie's fictitious accounts. The IP addresses show up to whose house?

Your house. I haven't had internet at my house. You definitely see a woman who thinks she's smarter than the police, who doesn't recognize that she's in a mousetrap. Are you gonna sit in this chair and be remorseful? Are you gonna sit in this chair and be culpable at it? Because right now, after four years, this family's been looking for answers.

Detective Schneider then confronts Liz and tells her he knows that she wrote the so-called Amy confession emails. Why would you create all these emails? I haven't created any emails. All these have been coming from your house. And I'm not going to be accused of something that I didn't do. Liz is the type of person where it could be two o'clock in the afternoon and you could tell her, Liz, it's two o'clock in the afternoon, and she would say, no it's not, it's midnight. The finger's pointed right at you.

I'm done talking and I'm going to have my attorney because I didn't do anything. Okay. While this interrogation is taking place with Detective Schneider, Detectives Avis and Doty have gotten a search warrant and are conducting a search of Liz's apartment. When we're searching her apartment, we found two things. We found Carrie's digital camera and camcorder. That means at some point, Liz went into Carrie's house

and stole those items from her house and has kept them for years after. On Carrie's camera, investigators find video taken just two days before Carrie was killed. She had just discovered that her Ford Explorer had been vandalized. And it's the last known video of Carrie. So Thursday night, apparently somebody here

in the whopping metropolis of Macedonia, Iowa, decided Max's Explorer was not the right color. We're gonna go see if we can fix that. Somebody thought they were quite the artist. Investigators now believe it was Liz who vandalized the car. There's some all over the hood. The police finally had enough evidence to get an arrest warrant. But the strongest evidence against Liz is actually discovered after her arrest. I came to a photo that no one had seen before. It was like the killer wanted to keep a keepsake of what she had done. It was just chilling.

After they arrested Liz Golyer, of course, the next step is the actual preparation of the trial. Douglas County prosecutor Brenda Beadle took on the case. This was, by far, the most difficult case I've ever tried. Most homicides are dark. This one was bizarre. To the point where it would take some convincing to make somebody believe that it actually happened. There's no way that someone would let their dog die in a fire that they started. There's no way that someone would shoot themselves in the femur.

There's no way that someone would shoot themselves in the femur. Liz Gawlier's defense attorney is James Martin Davis. James Martin Davis is somewhat of a legend in Omaha, Nebraska, a very, very well-known defense attorney. Davis saw huge flaws in the case against Liz Gawlier. Not only was there no body, there was no crime scene, there was no murder weapon, there was no proof that she even died. We waved the jury trial to move it up

so I could try this case, hopefully, before they'd find a body. In waving the jury trial, Davis is requesting that the trial be presided over by a judge as the fact finder instead of a jury. And we want to get it over with. They're scrambling now still to find the body, and they don't have a body. A few months before the trial, Ryan Avis and Tony Kava paid a visit to Dave Krupa just as they had many times before. And they turned around to leave and Cava, trying to have his afterthought, said, hey is there anything you know we missed, anything at all? The last few times we

talked to me he said no we couldn't think of anything. For some reason Dave remembered he had a tablet that was in storage for the past couple years. Had been in a box for I don't know how long, you know, a year and a half probably. And I don't even know why I thought about it. When I examined the tablet, it had a micro SD card in it. And that memory card, it looked blank. If you plugged it into your computer,

it would look like there was nothing there, but there was deleted information. That SD card, it turns out it had been in Liz's phone, and it had thousands and thousands of deleted images that she thought were gone. But we were able to retrieve them. There were selfies that Liz had taken. I mean, there was everything that you would normally have

on your cell phone, but then I came to a photo that no one had seen before. It was reddish, and I wasn't sure what I was looking at at first, but it turned out to be a human foot. Human foot with a tattoo. And the foot was decomposing. So this person was dead. So you have to wonder, whose tattoo is this? What we discovered is that Carrie Farver had that tattoo on her foot.

We were able to figure out that Chinese tattoo was a symbol for mother. Mother. It was a role she loved. And of course she loved her own mother. How perfectly fitting that the symbol of the thing most sacred to her would be the single most powerful evidence to emerge. This photo, it was shocking. It made me realize that Liz Golyer killed Carrie Farver, and she's taking photos of her body.

It's really disturbing, almost like a keepsake or a trophy. I felt like our case was not the strongest before this, but once we had this, I felt like our case was not the strongest before this, but once we had this, I felt confident. I'm armed with this powerful new piece of evidence. Prosecutors head to trial. This is a bizarre and twisted case of a fatal attraction. It's about an obsessive woman that would stop at nothing to get what she wanted.

And you're going to not hear a single eyewitness saying, yeah, we saw her kill her. an obsessive woman that would stop at nothing to get what she wanted. And you're gonna not hear a single I wouldn't say yeah we saw her kill her, we saw her stab her. Not a single I would have even saw my client with the victim in this case. The prosecution truly did a masterful job laying out everything they had. Of course, key to the prosecution, those messages sent over years and years of Liz impersonating Carrie and pretending Carrie was alive to her mother and her son.

Those messages led to Carrie's son Max to reach out to his mom three years after she disappeared. He wrote, if this is really you, please come back. I want you to be at my graduation. It's so evil. It's so harsh for this family to see these and get hope. She's just diabolical and just cruel. It's mind-blowing that someone was capable of doing all of these things over the time period that she did them. Years. Even Liz's own attorney is struck by his client's cruelty. I would think to myself without disclosing my feelings to the client, I thought, holy Christ, this is despicable.

But it doesn't mean that they're first-degree cold-blooded murderers. As for Liz, she remained unfazed even through the most graphic, damning testimony. She was a nice woman. Never displayed any emotion. As for the motive, the prosecution doesn't have to prove that. But in this case, it seemed pretty obvious. Liz Gollier's motive was a man,

and that man was Dave Krupa. I tried to show, wait a minute, this guy's a nice guy, but he's not somebody that somebody would kill for. And why would she kill Gary Farmer? In her mind, she felt Dave Krupa was worth all of this. So it wasn't necessarily just about Dave. It's about the guy and about winning. Despite the overwhelming evidence

presented by the prosecution, there is no guarantee there was going to be a guilty verdict. Question was, would Nancy and her family get justice? How could this person do this to my daughter? For what reason? For what earthly reason can you do this to anybody? And what is Liz Gawlier's response to the accusations against her?

I wrote to Liz and asked if she had anything she'd like to say. This is one of the few cases that went to trial with no body, no murder weapon, no witnesses. It's a hard case to prove, it's a hard case to make, and it's even harder to get a conviction. But the web Liz Gullier was weaving, well, she got caught in it. Instead of being the spider, she became the insect. The judge found Liz Gawlier guilty of first-degree murder. Carrie Farber did not voluntarily disappear

and drop off the face of the earth. Very sadly, she was murdered. Liz was sentenced to life in prison. I'm glad it's over with. And she can't irrigate anybody else anymore. I want Liz to go away and never do this to anybody again. Nancy and Cherry's sons were foremost, in my mind, they're unfortunately the ones that have

to live with the repercussions. the ones that have to live with the repercussions. The But she has exchanged letters with author Leslie Ruhl. Liz wants out of prison. She's claiming that the real killer is still out there. I will not stop fighting until I am set free and they find the right person. She's a psychopathic, toxic narcissist. It's all about her. As for Dave, the years of being stalked and harassed and fooled by Liz have had a big impact.

I'm paranoid as hell. I really am. I don't trust anybody. I really don't. To me, Dodie, Avis, Trava, they're all heroes. Those guys, they made the world to me. I can't thank them enough. They're my boys. We just kept thinking about Nancy and Max, and that's kind of what just kept driving

us is to get them answers. And it was important for us to clear Carrie's name because she was accused of stalking, she was accused of harassment, and she didn't do any of those things, and that's not who she was. It's almost like murdering the victim twice because first she actually murders her as a human being

and then she's murdering her reputation and her memory. It's so fundamentally evil. You know, there's no fate bad enough for her. Carrie was only 37 when she died. I just want people to remember her as the fun-loving, talented, smart woman that she was. And she loved her son, and she was a tremendous mother, and she was a hard worker.

If I could talk to Carrie right now, and say I love you, I'm so glad that you were in my life. And I miss you terribly. You've been listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault. Friday nights at 9 on ABC, you can also find all new broadcast episodes of 2020. Thanks for listening. In the dry states of the Southwest, there's a group that's been denied a basic human right.

In the Navajo Nation today, a third of our households don't have running water. But that's not something they chose for themselves. The Navajo Nation has been persistently denied true sovereignty by the U.S. government because of the ongoing colonial relationship that we have. In this season of Reclaimed, I'll take you back over a hundred years to when a controversial deal was signed that would change the fate of the Navajo and how today a new deal being negotiated between the tribe and its neighboring states may do it again. We will hear argument this morning in case 21-1484, Arizona versus the Navajo Nation. Can the Navajo people reclaim their right to water?

Our water, our future! Our water, our future! That's in the next season of Reclaimed, the lifeblood of Navajo Nation. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.