20/20 - True Crime Vault: The Sinfluencer of Soho

Episode Date: December 11, 2024

How Anna Sorokin, known as the "Soho Grifter", had fascinated the world and had conned the highest social circles into believing she was a German heiress worth millions; featuring an interview with Sorokin, following her release from prison Originally aired: 10/01/2021 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As a FIZ member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month, every month. At FIZ, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at fiz.ca. This is Deborah Roberts. Welcome to the 2020 True Crime Vault. Each week, we reach back into our archives and bring you a story we found unforgettable. You broke her teeth. You broke her bones. Poisons that you could use that would be undetectable. Oh my goodness! What have you done?

Take a listen. Stop by also at the cracker dock. It's pretty clear to everybody you've dealt with that there is no money, that you're no German heiress. Were you living a lie? Anna's story is a story that actually novels are made of. A globetrotting life of glitz and glamour for one woman masquerading as an heiress.

She woke up one morning and she decided to be somebody else. Somebody must have started the idea that she was an heiress and who would have started that besides Anna? It was the Kardashian lifestyle. The wannabe socialite becomes a tabloid sensation. I certainly wish I had never met her. Rachel fell hook, line, and sinker for the narrative that she was in line to inherit tens of millions of dollars.

She owed me more money than I need any here. So pay me my money. This was really high drama, seeing these two women coming face to face together in a courtroom. Many people see you as the ultimate scammer. Are you scamming us? Do you call scams? It was very cold and it was snowing when we drove up to the prison. February 11th you walked out of prison, a free woman.

What did that feel like? I felt great. It's exciting to be out and I'm really happy. Good job, Anna. Give me that. What was the first thing you did? They brought me my phone so I got on social media. She immediately goes back to both Instagram and Twitter.

We drove with her like seven hours to New York. Her intent was to go back to her life. She called herself Anna Delvey, who prosecutors say was pretending to be a high-flying German heiress, living a fairy tale life among Manhattan's elite. Let me just have you say, pronounce, and spell your name, please. My name is Anna Delvey. A-N-N-A-D-E-L-V-E-Y. How would you describe the real Anna Delvey?

Who is she? Oh, that's such a loaded question. The wannabe socialite is actually on trial for swindling hundreds of thousands of dollars. Prosecutors say the 28-year-old stole $275,000 from banks, hotels, and friends. A German con artist has been sentenced to a minimum of four years in prison. This is a story about a woman who pretended to be someone that she's not.

She woke up one morning, and she decided to be somebody else, and she actually became that person. Anna is a tricky woman to describe. She is like no one I've ever met before. She is the slipperiest of slippery fish, I would say. Anna's story is a story that actually novels are made of. You envision a story like this, but this is not really a real life scenario. Anna was in her early 20s when she showed up in New York City

from Paris back in 2013. She had come from a middle-class background. She had no job. But somehow, once she was here, through a combination of deception and assumptions, people got the impression that she was wealthy. She was really taking people for an absolute ride. She didn't do an honest-days work in her life in New York.

The way she was living, dishing out $100 tips, living out of hotels, she was suddenly living like she had that sort of money. She would tip the cab driver $100 in cash and make sure everybody saw it. She was living at these high-end hotels. How she supported that, I have no idea. She just didn't give a f**k.

At the end of the day, that's what this is about. If I do it, no one will care. Who would arrest me? I don't think anybody could place Anna's accent. You weren't really sure where Anna was from, but she was from somewhere else. Very active on Instagram and Twitter, she would take pictures when she was on planes or at a nice dinner.

Her Instagram account actually helped build her image. I think for her it was more like you fake it until you make it. The impression is that you're kind of like sliding through life and you don't have to sign for anything and people just kind of let you do what you want. I guess, yes. So if you're creating the illusion that you have a certain amount of money, even though you don't, did you see that as a problem? Not at the time.

But it would soon become a big problem, a criminal matter. The trouble began when Anna set her sights on this historic building in Midtown Manhattan. As outrageous as it sounds, this young, unemployed newcomer with no business experience believed that she could fake her way into getting the millions of dollars necessary

to turn it into her dream come true. So her plan was kind of like a members-only club, a very high-end members-only club. Arts, fashion, entertainment, music, restaurants, everything in one place. The name of this was the Anna Delvey Foundation, ADF. Anna needed money for her business venture. As she thinks that money is out there,

you just have to find a way to get it. She was meeting with big, important leaders of industry. It was going to cost about $40 million to build, and Anna had about $4. How did they treat you, this young 20-something, with these grand ideas for a project? I feel like they were encouraging me. It kind of helps for them to think, like,

that I have more money than them. At some point, somebody must have started the idea that she was an heiress and who would have started that besides Anna? Did you tell people that you were an heiress? Absolutely not. A lot of times people have maybe rich and have a personal wealth, but of course if they have a business venture, they don't want to use their own personal money for it.

So they go to a bank and they want to have a business loan. Anna went to the most premier investment banks in New York without a dollar to her name. The bankers were seduced by the glitz and glam. She came up and they're stunting. She came in there with the right clothes and they were like, I love it, let's do it. There was something about Anna. She knew which people she needed to make feel

important and she also had this sort of aura about her where she's intriguing and she used that. How did you meet Anna Delvey? I met her out one night in New York. I was out with friends and she just joined us late that evening. Do you regret you met her? Absolutely, I certainly wish I had never met her. I was out with friends and she just joined us late that evening. Do you regret you met her? Absolutely. I certainly wish I had never met her.

Rachel Deloach Williams was a picture editor at Vanity Fair magazine. What were your first impressions? She was slightly offbeat. She was quirky. Her voice was high pitched. She, she had a hard-to-place accent, and there was something about her you kind of just wanted to watch because you couldn't put your finger on it. They were both young, they were both in their 20s, they both recently moved to New York and they wanted to be in circles that they didn't really belong to.

I liked her and so we had a lot of fun together. She was just a nice girl, and I felt she was sweet, and she was interesting at the time to me. So these two formed a friendship. And Anna portrayed herself as having a lot of money and living a very lavish lifestyle, and Rachel was into that. You would pay for things mostly when you two went out.

Why? Well, she gave me an impression that she only made whatever $60,000 or $70,000 a year. It's not a big deal for me to like pick up a tab which is a couple hundred dollars. I felt it was a nice thing to do. She and I spent some time going to dinners and hanging out.

During that time, I learned that she was working on an art foundation, club, restaurant, just everything. And the concept was very interesting and impressive and she'd referred to this family trust she had, which I didn't pry about, but it sort of informed my understanding of her. So it was pretty casual, but you figured she had money? Yes.

Rachel fell hook, line, and sinker for the narrative that she was in line to inherit tens of millions of dollars. She would later on say, she just assumed you were a socialite. I never say, hey I'm a socialite, who says that? Rachel didn't know that her life was about to change. She trusted Anna and she truly believed that she was rich. People have asked, were there red flags? I never questioned that she was who she said she was rich. People have asked, were there red flags? They never questioned that she was who she said she was.

I never had reason to, and I wouldn't have thought that way. But she would soon learn that not everything was what it seemed. I mean, not even Anna's last name. Delby? She made that up. Her real name was Sorikin. Where does the name Delby come from?

I just came up with that. You just made it up? Yes. It's not a family name? No. You just like that better than Sorokin? Yes. Whether you're talking about Anna Sorokin or Anna Delphi, she does not like to follow the rules. This is the first time you've sat down for a television interview. Yeah. Why are you talking with us? Why not? I would like to show the world that I'm not this damn greedy person that they portrayed me to be. Little did she know that a trap was about to be laid that was going to lead to her downfall.

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Visit superstore.ca to get started. and PC optimum points. Visit superstore.ca to get started. Since Anna was a German citizen, she needed to leave every three months in order to reset the visa. And instead of going back home to Germany, she suggested we take a trip somewhere warm. They just somehow had this idea to go to Morocco. Seemed to be a nice destination. Me and Rachel kind of brainstormed where we should stay.

We came up with La Mamounia and Marrakech. We came up with La Mamounia and Marrakesh. Okay. And they also brought along a film guy. She said that she wanted to make a documentary while we were there about her art foundation and its creation. And she sort of framed it within this business expense. Cheers. Cheers.

And a D. And a D. And I was thinking ahead. I want to get money for my art foundation. If I film myself being in Morocco, if I can afford this, then I must be loaded. I must have money. This is some stunning top-of-the-line,

like dripping-in-gold resort with butlers and private everything. It's a resort that's built for the 1%. Chloe Kardashian has stayed there once upon a time. Quite a few decades before that, Winston Churchill would regularly stay there. You know, this is where the great and the uber wealthy have hung out for decades. Your eyes must have been popping out of your head.

Oh, absolutely. It was, I mean, it was amazing until it wasn't. Anna Fright from the get-go said that she's paying. Why are you treating everybody a $7,000 a night room? Well, I had the money, I guess, at the time when I booked it, and I guess they gave me an impression that they pre-authorized my card or something like that. So the trip is going along, they're living it up. I'm not sure why Anna had issues paying,

but for whatever reason, her credit cards were not working. Anna claims that her credit cards aren't going through because she hasn't given the banks the heads up that she's going to be in a foreign country, so her banks have blocked it, which is just the type of thing that would happen. And it seems a kind of credible reason. So the hotel isn't getting any payment,

and the bill is getting astronomical. So now you have a tab of 60 plus thousand dollars? Yes. So they came and they said, listen, what's going on? Time to pay. Well, of course there is a scene at this hotel. Two of the hotel workers were not going to let these women move until they had a working credit card.

There was just this insane pressure and tension in the room. I was very aware of us being young women in a foreign country. I just didn't know what to do. It's like, oh my god, you know, nobody wants to go to jail, and I guess especially not in Morocco. And the men say, do you have a credit card? So I look at Anna and she's like, can we just use it for now? Anna wasn't thinking much.

She was like, well, the money is going to come and of course I'm going to pay Rachel back. For Rachel, however, it was just really a very scary situation. She hands over her personal card, and she also hands over her corporate card. It makes me feel nauseous. How terrifying that must be.

You know, your job is now on the line. Rachel just footed the bill for both of them is what really happened. And this was a sure in their friendship for sure. She owed me more money than I made any here. She's reaching out to you to pay her back. Do you know that she is beside herself with worry about the card? Yeah she was telling me that every day all day. You're texting Anna, no reimbursement. What are you thinking? I'm thinking this is a rich girl who has never had to deal with monthly bills. She just doesn't understand what an urgent situation I'm

in. You know, I am late with my rent. I'm late with my credit card payments. Every night I'm awake in bed thinking, oh this is serious. I'm like in a lot of trouble. At this stage you don't have the money to pay Rachel. No. How was she responding? She had a billion and one excuses. I was suspicious at that point. Anna paid Rachel $5,000 through PayPal,

but that caused problems. I guess PayPal or American Express stopped the credit card, so she was not able to access any further funds. Anna relied on her credit card to pay things, so she wasn't able to fulfill other obligations like a hotel bill. July 2017, she is arrested for the first time, and it's for theft of services, and it relates to three things in New York. Unpaid bills at the Beekman, at the W Hotel, and at Le Parc du Meridien. The day I met her, she had one open misdemeanor criminal case.

I come to find out that there's a number of criminal investigations and active cases against Anna for unpaid bills. Hotels, restaurants, other things of that nature. It's her first arrest, and everything really starts to kind of unravel. And that's when this story hits the New York Post. The wannabe socialite becomes a tabloid sensation.

You're beginning to make the press. There are newspaper headlines. What did you make of that? I guess it's just what people like to hear. They just looked at my Instagram, and this is what they, like, reality that they created. You eventually go to the district attorney's office. And what do you learn?

I learn that there is an ongoing investigation into Anna Delvey, whose real name is Anna Sorokin. But of course, Anna, she doesn't want to stop living the life just yet. After her arraignment, she ditches and she goes to California. The district attorney is trying to track her down and you want to be helpful in this. Yes. If she did this to me and I was her friend, she would do it to anybody. And I just wanted to protect other people.

And Rachel set her up. Suddenly the gullible fool is no longer so foolish. So they're messaging back and forth. But every single time that Anna messages Rachel, Rachel is screenshotting it and sending it straight to the DA. She wasn't touched with me for about a week. She just asked me how I was doing, and just pretending like nothing was off.

She had asked if we could get together, so I asked her if she could meet me at a restaurant in Los Angeles, and we set a time. That's where actually Anna was headed to when she was arrested. So you're arrested again. Yes. What did you think?

What did you feel? I was surprised. I was still afraid. I was afraid she'd find out that it was me. Rachel sends a message to Anna saying, I'm at the restaurant. Kind of, where are you? Is everything OK?

Because she didn't want Anna at that point to know that she had played her. But she did. She played it like an absolute fiddle. At this moment, it's pretty clear to everybody you've dealt with that there is no money, that you're no German heiress. Were you living a lie? Um...

I don't feel I was. No. And I, I can't believe it, I can't believe it. If Anna wasn't living a lie, what was she living? The prosecution has quite the case to make to a jury to try to prove just how fake this would-be heiress actually was. Just watch me fake it, fake it, ooh ooh ooh, till I make it, make it, ooh ooh ooh, just watch me fake it, fake it, ooh ooh ooh, till I make it, make it.

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Just like that. How about dinner with my third cousin? Skip it. Prince Fluffy's favorite treats? Skippable. Midnight snacks? Skip. My neighbor's nightly saxophone practices?

Nope. You're on your own there. Could have skipped it. Should have skipped it. Skip to the good part and get groceries, meals, and more delivered right to your door on skip. Banks and New Yorkers out of hundreds of thousands of dollars that want to be socialized, falsified bank records, forged her identity, pretending to be a high flying German heiress. This lavish lifestyle that Anna had been living, it all comes crashing down when the FBI bring her back to New York.

Her lodgings are Rikers Correctional Facility. You were taken to Rikers Island, one of the most frightening jails in the country. What was that like for you? Were you terrified? Actually, I had no idea about Rikers. I was really upset at the time, yeah. I just like learned to deal with it. The nature of her crimes meant it was easy for the judge to not grant Anna bail.

You're there for 19 months? Yes. Did you feel that you were in danger ever? Not physically, no. I was just lucky I never met anyone who was awful to me. While at Rikers Island, Anna survived unscathed. I've said this before, Anna is very charismatic and charming. Did you have celebrity status in jail?

I definitely did, yes. And then you strike a Netflix deal. Sorkin's case even capturing Hollywood's attention. Grey's Anatomy creator Shonda Rhimes behind an upcoming project for Netflix. She was offered over $300,000 for the deal. So you're essentially making money off of this. I mean, was it kind of a joke to you? No, not really, not of this. I mean, was it a kind of a joke to you?

No, not really, not at all. I mean, it all kind of happened. And even if I were to get like 100 million from Netflix, like my life and chair would not have changed. You were still behind bars. Absolutely, definitely. Anna was offered a plea bargain of three to nine years to resolve all of the criminal liability.

And she ultimately rejected it and said, I'd rather go to trial. I'd rather roll the dice. Let's go. I wanted to go to trial. I felt like it was the only way to tell my story. Most people go to trial to be found not guilty. She went to trial for the story.

Now facing charges of grand larceny and theft, she could spend up to 15 years in prison if convicted. She knew that the world's media were focusing the spotlight on her, and there was no way that she was going to look bad at trial. Sorokin always looking glamorous on her social media pages. Her defense team even hiring a stylist to help her prepare for court appearances.

She was wearing Victoria Beckham and Michael Kors. The choker became such a look. There was so much media attention on what she was looking like. I felt like I knew my trial was going to last for a while, and you don't really get any clothes. But, Anna, what defendant has clothes brought in by a stylist?

I don't know. I had never had that. I didn't have internet at the time to compare myself to other defendants, so I just kind of did what made sense at the time. It just really exemplified how focused she is on vanity and narcissism and putting on a show. Prosecution, of course, told the jury that Anna was living a double life

and used her lies to cheat banks and even her personal friend, Rachel Rachel out of a lot of money. Prosecutors said that your story was lie after lie after lie. That's what they told the jury. I mean of course they would say something like this. That's their job to accuse me of crimes. Remember, Anna was supposed to be opening this arts foundation. She went to Banks and told them she had money overseas. What were you expected to provide as proof that you have these millions and millions of dollars overseas?

Like a bank statement, a letter of credit from the bank. So Anna was definitely really starting to spin the lies at this point, and stepping up her con a level. She was creating fake documents to try and persuade bankers that she was worth around 60 million euros. So Anna was charged with certain crimes that had evidence that we couldn't dispute. The fake documents were the fake documents. We were stuck with them.

There's nothing we could do about it. These documents were very realistic. I would have fallen for it and obviously the bankers did too. Anna never testified in court and during our interview her lawyer wouldn't let her answer many of my questions about those dealings with the banks. The impression that they get from documents is that you have a lot of money in accounts. Was that by design? Um, yes.

So you wanted them to think that you had a lot of money to put up? The first one is fine. Don't answer the second one. Did you have that amount of money in overseas accounts? I can't answer that. And how do you come up with bank statements? I can't answer that. How were you able to falsify documents? My lawyer would not allow me to answer that. From my review of the evidence there is really no direct

link between her and the documents so that's why I did not want her to answer. The banks never gave Anna the loans but she did get a line of credit and prosecutors say she used that money and bad checks in order to fund her lavish lifestyle. When you look at the evidence that the prosecution presented, it looks like this was a scam. But that's different ways to tell a story. The other way to tell the story is that Anna had every intention of doing things the right way.

But she couldn't open certain doors without doing something a little bit gray to open that door. Everyone creates the version of themselves that they want the world to see. Everyone is lying a little bit. Everyone lies when it's convenient to them. Some more than others, but we all do it. And Anna did the same thing.

She couldn't be 100% honest because no one would listen to her. Your lawyer at the time said that you did nothing wrong, that you exploited a system easily seduced by glitz and glamour, that you told little white lies. Is that what happened? Yes, that's the way I see it too. Anna is accused essentially of misleading people

to think that she had more money than she has. Isn't that what all of us do every day when we use a credit card to buy something we can't afford? Where's the crime? I never had a fraudulent intent and I guess that's what should really count. When did you begin to realize that you could not afford your life and pay people back? I always knew that and I was just always trying to fix that. I always knew that and I was just always trying to fix that. But the one thing Anna couldn't fix was the actual truth behind her identity. Who was this heiress and where did she come from?

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Everyone was expecting, everyone wanted to hear from Rachel. That's what the DA actually, that was intentional, you know, to have Rachel as the poster child of this trial to make it more human. This was really high drama, seeing these two women, former friends, coming face to face together in a courtroom. You had not seen Anna for a long time. What was it like when you walked in that courtroom to testify? It was really hard. I didn't look at her until I was on the stand and was asked to identify the defendant and then when I did look at her she was smirking at me. I had a friend who turned out to be not at all who she said she was smirking at me. I had a friend who turned out to be not at all who she said

she was. If she wasn't born an heiress, then who exactly was she? The woman who claimed to be Anna Delvey was actually born Anna Sorokin, far from the skyscrapers of Manhattan in a small town in Russia. You were born in Russia? Yes. What was your childhood like? Were you happy?

Yes. I grew up as a single child until my parents had another kid when I was almost 13. So I kind of see myself as a single child because I grew up by myself. How did you wind up in Germany as a family? I was a mother, I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother, I was a mother.

I was a mother, I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, I was a mother. I was a mother, it was very boring.

What did your parents do? My dad, he is like an infrared heating, solar energy business right now. And your mom? My mom, she's working with him. Hardworking people, good people, but certainly not Roland Do. She clearly felt she was above it and was a woman who dreamed far bigger than her horizons.

Those dreams would eventually lead to Paris. Following her lifelong interest in fashion, she eventually got a position at a glossy magazine called Purple. And Anna Sorokin morphed into Anadelvi. I interned at Purple for almost two years, which was a great learning experience, but I always thought, like, I'd be working for Vogue or something like this. We all watched the Devil Wears Prada,

so I could imagine that her job was similar to that. I really did everything I could think of. That's all. MUSIC I really did everything I could think of. That's all. If you work for a magazine like that, you meet everyone, kind of like in the fashion world, and that's what she did. Anna created this name, Anna Delvey, which is for her an alter ego. Just another personality that she could present to the outside world. Were you trying to escape something?

I think it was about a new beginning and doing something new as opposed to like escaping anything. Escape or no escape, next thing you know, Anna crosses the ocean, she jumps into New York, becomes Anna Delvey, this larger than life persona. And that's when she began telling everybody about the idea for that art center, the Anna Delvey Foundation. And she had to come up with money to make it happen. Everything after that leads back to that courtroom in Lower Manhattan.

And Rachel taking the stand in an emotional moment, telling about that trip to Morocco. Anna Soroka claimed to be worth about $67 million, convincing people she was the daughter of a diplomat. Stealing more than 200 grand and attempting to steal millions more through elaborate scams. What was that like for you as you watched her, your friend, testifying against you? I knew she didn't really want to be there and they made her do it. She literally did not glance at me once except to like us to identify the defendant. Rachel gets on the stand and bursts into sobs and says,

this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me in my life. She said, what was I supposed to do? I didn't want to sit in jail and be in Morocco for months or even years. I believe Rachel, that was the most traumatic moment in her life. I understand the word trauma is relative. To have someone that I had put so much goodwill into turn out to just be like a liar

and who had willfully hurt me was very painful. How are you gonna get on the witness stand and say this is the worst thing that ever happened? The woman sold her story across the board. She literally was like, what's up? I got the story, who wants it? There are some people who would say you benefited from her greed. They don't see you as a victim. I understand that, but this isn't something that was worth it to me. This was not my plan.

This is not something I would recommend for anybody. Despite her testimony and how traumatic this experience was for her, on cross-examination, Rachel had to admit that ultimately she didn't pay that hotel bill and she made a lot of money on this story. She wrote a book about it and she has a movie deal as a result. She volunteered to give the card and the story. I'm empathetic to how Rachel felt. That's not the issue.

The issue is whether Anna committed a crime by doing it. Remember, the charges against Anna go a lot farther than just that one situation with Rachel. No matter what the jurors think about Rachel, as deliberations begin, the big question is, what do they think about Anna? This morning the fate of an alleged scam artist is now in the hands of a jury. What are you feeling as the jury is deliberating? I felt it was like a great indicator that it took almost three days to decide.

So it means like it's not something, oh yeah, she's full of ****. We're going to have to find her guilty. So I guess it just like speaks volumes. It's like how I came across. We hoped for the best, but planned for the worst. A New York City jury finding socialite Anna Sorokin, a so-called Soho grifter, guilty on eight counts including grand larceny, attempted grand larceny and theft of services. When you hear guilty, what do you think?

I mean, you just deal with the consequences. What, am I supposed to collapse and cry? I don't know. I would. Well, they had like 100 cameras in my face, so I don't know. I would. Well they had like 100 cameras in my face so I don't know. Ultimately it was a mixed verdict. Some counts they convicted her on and two counts they acquitted her on. Sorokin was acquitted of two charges including the most serious attempting to steal a million dollars from a bank. Still she faces deportation and up to 15 years in prison.

Were you crushed? I was upset. I guess I felt a bit misunderstood, but I felt like Rachel was a good victory. Despite Rachel's emotional testimony, the jury did not find Anna guilty for the alleged theft that $62,000 bill at the hotel in Morocco. I think the jury would have liked to care about Rachel. If she had gone on the stand and said, look, like, I got caught up. I had no business going on a trip I couldn't pay for myself. This sounded like a lot of fun and it turned into a nightmare.

I think that she could have brought the jury along with her on that. But there was none of that. Some of the jurors didn't feel sympathetic for your situation with Anna. How did that feel for you? Oh, that was devastating. It was devastating to have taken the witness stand and to have felt so exposed and to have shared so publicly something that was so deeply personal and painful for me was extremely hard.

And then to have that come out as the takeaway was extremely upsetting. To the fake heiress sentenced here in New York City today, Anna Sorokin, in tears, learning she will spend up to 12 years in prison. Her ultimate sentence was 4 to 12 years of state prison. In addition to her prison sentence, Anna's ordered to pay $200,000 in restitution and an additional $24,000 in fees. But interestingly, Anna's not ordered to pay $200,000 in restitution and an additional $24,000 in fees.

But interestingly, Anna's not ordered to pay back Rachel's $62,000 credit card bill. Did you have to pay that money? Ultimately, thank goodness American Express did protect me from the hotel charge, which was the bulk of the expenses. Do you think that her sentence was just? I am relieved.

I think it's appropriate she's doing time for having committed crimes. I do think that she will continue to manipulate other people for the rest of her life. Even in prison? Absolutely, in prison, yes. I think she has a problem with authority. I don't suspect that will change in prison or in the future. After the guilty verdict, you are sent to Albion Correctional Facility. I actually got on the phone with my lawyer and asked him, can I go back to Rikers?

You wanted to go back to Rikers? Why? Because I felt like the beginning is always the hardest. Completely new set of people and new inmates. Anna's story becomes bigger after her incarceration than she ever was before. And remember that Netflix deal of more than $300,000? Well, it turns out the New York state law won't let Anna profit from her crimes.

So that money first has to be used to pay back her victims. Once the victims were paid, Anna would receive the balance. On February 11th, after spending just under four years of her four- to twelve-year sentence in prison, Anna is released early for good behavior. Anna is released early for good behavior. You know that I'm a type of girl who goes above and beyond. She goes straight to a posh hotel in New York City. Anna was intended to continue with her Anna Delby persona. After her release, she was told that she could actually stay in America at least for six weeks.

There was a date at the end of March where she needed to talk to an immigration officer. I said to her, lay low, get off of parole, sort out your immigration affairs, and then you'll have plenty of time to build whatever you want to build. But lo and behold, Anna is not one to heed my advice, and she decided to do what she wanted. You're just a few weeks out of prison, but yet you're still active on social media. She was giving interviews on social media,

really living the high life, pictures on Instagram of you drinking champagne in a footed tub, and you know, the whole gamut. I'm a Christian. Send her forgiveness. Anna even goes so far as to call herself a professional defendant. This doesn't look like a woman who has been through prison and who has learned something from prison.

You're casually, happily back on social media. I mean this is just like my life. So I'm just trying to channel this attention into something good. But Anna, you have people following you on social media who say things like, queen, and I'm so pleased for you. I mean, it almost seems like this is just sort of a game to you. I mean, I cannot be responsible for what people say. This, of course, was not looking like she was actually remorseful and felt sorry. Well, she ended up in trouble. Some of her media posts were sarcastic.

Like basically she didn't learn her lesson, you know, she's not remorseful, you know, and when she actually showed up to her appointment at immigration, they apprehended her. I just think how stupid can you be that you were that indiscreet, you know, she didn't think of the consequences. I believe that she will be deported. Anna does not want to go back to Europe. Anna will fight being deported to Germany tooth and nail. Anna is back in jail and I think, speaking to somebody who knows her, she is cutting a lonelier figure than ever.

Anna has been held in detention in immigration custody since March. Her lawyer has been trying to get her released. Anna does not want to go back to Europe. She had the option to be somebody different, but she kept Anadelvi. That level of disconnect allows her to sort of operate without feeling too much ever. Who is the real Anadelvi? I guess it reminds me of a scene.

I'm just trying to rewrite my story. The next step is to keep fighting. She's resilient and she's determined. I would say that Anna Delvey is not done. Anna Delvey is not going to be deported. Anna Delvey is going to reinvent herself as someone she chooses to be on her terms. And we're going to continue to help her

until she says no more. MUSIC New York is the ultimate comeback place, but she would have to show real contrition to persuade people to take her seriously, and she's going to have to do that wherever she goes, but I think maybe she has more of a shot at it at the city that she didn't do.

I'd love to say the lesson in this story is, you can't just lie and get away with it. Anna went to prison. Anna paid some restitution. But I think this story is as old as time. That's part of what draws us to it. We want to believe that justice will be served. We want to believe that it will deter anybody else

from coming along. But there's always another Anna waiting in the rafters. Many people see you as the ultimate scammer. Are you scamming us? No, you tell me, do you feel scammed? Do you feel scammed? Thanks for listening to the 2020 True Crime Vault. We hope you'll join us Friday nights at 9 on ABC for all new broadcast episodes.

See you then. In the dry states of the Southwest, there's a group that's been denied a basic human right. In the Navajo Nation today, a third of our households don't have running water. But that's not something they chose for themselves. The Navajo Nation has been persistently denied true sovereignty by the U.S. government because of the ongoing colonial relationship that we have.

In this season of Reclaimed, I'll take you back over a hundred years to when a controversial deal was signed that would change the fate of the Navajo. And how today, a new deal being negotiated between the tribe and its neighboring states may do it again. We will hear argument this morning in case 21-1484, Arizona versus the Navajo Nation. Can the Navajo people reclaim their right to water? Our water, our future! Our water, our future! That's in the next season of Reclaimed, the lifeblood of Navajo Nation.

Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.