20/20 - Wild Crime: You've Got Your Monster | S4 Ep. 2
Episode Date: February 19, 2025Israel Keyes, confesses to raping and killing the barista, torturing and killing a married couple in Vermont, raping the wife as well. Is his story true? Vermont cops search for evidence, while the FB...I asks him: who else have you killed? Originally Aired: 12/05/24 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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This is Deborah Roberts, co-anchor of 2020.
This week, we're bringing you episode 2 of Wild Crime, 11
Skulls. It's called You've Got Your Monster. The YFORG Focus is two vehicles in front of me.
It accelerated rapidly, faster than everyone else.
So I said, well, hang on a minute, he might be speeding. And so, sure enough, checked him with radar.
He was running 58, not 55.
I activate the lights.
Beep.
Woo!
Woo!
He pulls into a local restaurant.
Woo!
Woo!
Woo!
Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! Woo! He pulls into a local restaurant.
You're excited that you found a vehicle that you were looking for.
But still, in my mind, the odds of us getting the correct white Ford Focus were astronomical
to me. Secrets in the wilderness.
Beautiful yet treacherous landscapes.
These are the stories of investigators who solve murders in wild places. So he pulled into the parking lot.
As I walked up, I didn't realize we might be dealing with a kidnapping suspect.
So I kind of paused and looked through the window to see if I could see his hands.
How you doing?
Good.
I'm a pilot, bro.
The reason we stopped you is because I was in there looking around.
Where are you from?
I'm from London. The reason we stopped is because we were looking around. Where are you from?
I'm from London.
When he said he was from Alaska, it makes the hair
on the back of your head rise.
At the time, I probably had 23, 24 years on.
And I can't remember if I'd ever seen an Alaska driver's license.
His name is Real Keys.
It's just crazy, you know, it's like hard to hold your composure.
The Ranger and the FBI were both there pretty quickly, and then they took over. Hi there.
Steve Reidman with the Texas Rangers.
Okay.
How are you?
I'm good.
Hi.
Should we visit with you for a few minutes?
Yeah.
I mean, I don't know what's going on.
They didn't even tell me why it was pulled over.
You don't want to lay all your cards on the table.
And in fact, we didn't have many cards to put on the table.
He told us he had flown from Alaska into Las Vegas
and that he'd rented a car there.
And he had driven from Las Vegas to Texas
to attend his sister's wedding.
We're looking for a guy driving a Y4 Focus from Alaska.
OK.
And so it's kind of a coincidence
that your driver's license statement from Alaska.
I told you I was from Alaska.
Right.
I know.
Hey, we're looking for a guy that's
committed a pretty serious crime.
We don't know if you're the guy or not.
Can I look at your wallet?
I gave you my ID.
You're not searching anything.
Look, you have not given me any information.
I've been very open with you.
I've been telling you everything.
You're not searching anything of mine until I know what's going on and why I'm still standing
here.
I don't need a search warrant to search the vehicle.
Under the vehicle exception rule, it takes state law.
We decided to perform a warrantless search on the vehicle
because if we hadn't, then Israel could have left in that car.
How does that work if it's funded with Alaska?
Listen, I'm not going to debate with you.
Okay. I'm taking whatever action with you. Okay?
I'm taking whatever action I need to take.
Get a picture of those white shoes there.
The ranger saw a pair of white, tinny shoes
in the passenger side of the car.
In the ATM videos, the person taking money out of the ATM
wore what looked like the same shoes.
When we opened the trunk and the ranger started going through things in the trunk of the car.
Here you go. Hey.
Gray hoodie with glasses in the pocket.
And gloves.
And a mask.
We found a gray hoodie that appeared to be the same hoodie
that the perpetrator had been wearing in the ATM videos.
And in the pocket of that was this gray piece of cloth
that looked like a mask.
We also found the amber shooting glasses.
We got our guy.
Sir, you're under arrest.
After he was put under arrest, he was transported to the Loughkan Police Department.
After he was put under arrest, he was transported to the Loughkan Police Department. The ranger and I do a thorough search of Israel's wallet, and we found Samantha's ATM card.
Samantha's cell phone was in the car.
At this point, we still don't know if he is the person who has abducted
Samantha, but we are convinced that he is the person who was withdrawing money
from the ATM. As the pieces of the puzzle start coming together, it's a feeling like nothing you can ever experience.
A girl's missing.
And we might have the guy who took her.
We might be able to find her
and bring her home safe.
We have a name. We have a name of Israel Keyes.
He's not on our radar screen at all.
It's like, who is this guy?
I sent our officers to Keyes' residence immediately to see if Samantha was being held inside the
house or being held captive there.
And that's the first question.
Is Samantha there?
She could be tied up in the basement and they don't know.
The Special Assignment Unit officers made entry into the home.
We then searched the house.
I'm still hoping that Samantha would be found alive.
I'm still hoping that Samantha would be found alive. I'm still hoping that Samantha would be found alive.
I'm still hoping that Samantha would be found alive.
I'm still hoping that Samantha would be found alive.
But we were then faced with the reality that Samantha's not in the house.
But we were then faced with the reality that Samantha's not in the house.
So they've got the guy, but they don't have Samantha.
So they've got the guy, but they don't have Samantha.
She's not in the car in Texas.
She's not in the house in Anchorage.
So where is she?
In front of the house, the first thing that I noticed that I see
is the white truck parked in the driveway.
It was clear that the truck matched the description of the truck
that we had in the video at Home Depot.
It appeared to me obvious that that lumber rack and toolbox had been removed at some point in time recently and put back on.
We also found a silver Nissan Exterra SUV, which matched the description of the vehicle that was used during one of the ATM
withdrawals.
We have the truck in the exterra.
And then our crime scene team was called out and did a complete investigation in the house.
The crime scene team seized anything that could hold digital information.
We were able to seize some computers from his home.
A lot of that evidence would have to be analyzed like the computer evidence.
We were hoping for fingerprints.
We were hoping for fingerprints. We were hoping for maybe DNA.
Looking for fibers and those type of things that could have attached to Samantha.
There was a shed separated from the house.
The whole shed was put onto a flatbed and taken back to the FBI building here in Anchorage.
Anything that would lead us to Samantha. and PC optimum points, visit superstore.ca to get started.
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It was just chaotic in the office. We're trying to find out absolutely everything we can about this individual.
How is he connected to Samantha?
Is he connected to Samantha at all?
There is just a lot of mystery behind him.
What does he do for a living?
What's his criminal history like?
Does anyone else live in his house?
We found out that Israel Hez was a single father
who had a daughter, lived with a girlfriend,
had a contracting business in Anchorage,
no run-ins with the law.
There wasn't any indication that he was capable
of doing something like this.
At this point, Keyes is charged federally,
extradited back to Alaska.
The U.S. Marshal has notified the court today
that Israel Keyes is in custody in the District of Alaska.
He's charged with theft of an access device,
which is for the debit card, the use of that debit card.
In the grand scheme of things, that's a pretty small offense.
He's looking at 18 months in jail, maybe,
for that federal access device charge.
But we were going to find physical evidence at his house.
We were going to find digital evidence on his computers.
We were going to find cell phone information that would lead us in the direction that he
was responsible for the kidnapping of Samantha Koenig.
And I think he knew that.
In fact, Israel's defense attorney had a discussion about him being willing to at least come to the table and talk with law enforcement about the disappearance of Samantha Conant.
It's 1548 by my watch. It's March 30th. US Attorney's Office.
Myself, Jolene, and some other investigators were in a separate room where we were able
to listen in to what was going on.
Do you understand the rights?
Yes.
Are you willing to waive those rights and talk to us?
Yes.
We have no idea what to expect, so we're just sitting there on the edges of our seat,
just wondering what he's going to say.
I can tell you right now,
everything related to this that is going to be in the house,
you already have the computer, the desktop computer.
That's what we've been doing.
He knew that we had his computer
and he figured that having his computer
we'd be able to find big pieces of evidence.
That's pretty much why I decided to start talking to you
because if you have that computer,
you probably would have figured it out.
I think everybody really wants to know where Samantha is.
Is that an okay place to start
or would you like to start elsewhere?
Yeah, we can just start with the end and then we'll work backwards.
So you pull up a map there of the Palmer area.
He directed us north out of Anchorage towards the Matanuska Valley.
So in that piece of land, how many yards off the shoreline or feet off the shore?
Right there.
And he pointed to a spot on the lake.
And what should they look for specifically?
Ice fishing spot.
Was it a hole that you cut or was the hole there?
No, it was a hole I cut.
You'll see it.
You'll see where the hole was probably.
I don't imagine there's not very much snow up there.
And Israel Keys said that is where we would find
Samantha Coney.
She's not wrapped up or anything, but there'll still be some blood on ice.
Are they gonna find anything else out there?
Oh, you'll find her DNA.
Okay.
You'll probably, you'll find her, my DNA on her. She hasn't been around long, so...
Okay.
The one thing I do need to know is how you killed her.
Why?
I mean, it doesn't really matter how it happened.
I'm saying that, yes, I was responsible,
and yes, I told you where she is.
So you killed her?
Yes.
We knew that Samantha Koenig is dead.
We knew that there's no more hope.
It's like my heart was sinking.
I felt very emotional and all kinds of emotions
running through the head.
I think it was obviously difficult for all of us.
It was devastating that we have to still continue
to concentrate and move towards the recovery of Samantha and coming
up with some answers for her family and for law enforcement as to what happened to her. After our interview with Israel Keys where he identified Matanuska Lake, I drove out
here with the latitude-longitude coordinates that we took off the map that he had given
us.
Matanuska Lake is about 40 miles north of Anchorage.
He picked this lake because of the depth
and thought that he found a spot where
it was 80 feet deep that he could put Samantha's remains.
We're pretty close to the coordinates.
I could see a clump of snow or something
that was protruding from the snow.
So I walked over to it and I knelt down and I removed the snow from the clump of ice and
I was able to see a rectangle that had been cut out of the ice about this size.
And it looked like it had been cut with a chainsaw.
So at that time I knew that this was the location
that Israel Keys had disposed of Samantha Koenig's remains.
We brought some APD officers out here to secure the scene
and watch it until we could get the FBI's dive team here.
They recovered her rather quickly.
Keys was so accurate as to where her remains were.
It was rather incredible how well he remembered that.
She had been dismembered.
And those remains were brought up to the surface. I was able to identify the remains as being Samantha Koenig.
There was breaking news and I just remember them at a lake and my phone was blowing up.
Is this happening?
Is this her?
I felt like everything stopped in that moment when it was her.
A lot of people right now I know are just heartbroken. Everyone was rooting for her until the very end.
We just, we couldn't believe it.
We feel for the family. It's absolutely devastating.
I'd like to welcome you today to Samantha Koenig's celebration of life.
Her memorial was huge.
I don't think there was an empty seat.
When I hear Samantha's name, I'm reminded of her contagious laugh.
It could brighten any room.
It was a very sad service knowing that she wasn't
gonna be back. Just like any parent loves their child, James was devastated.
James will not have any grandchildren. James will not be able to give his daughter a hug ever again because of this creep. felt the presence of evil. But did he act alone now, finally? Not many people live to tell about their involvement with a serial killer.
The one man who helped break the case.
Never before a face-to-face interview with the camera.
Why now?
Let me ask you, what do you think?
Am I the evil culprit, the accomplice?
I'd like to know how the audience views me.
The Fox Hollow Murders, playground of a serial killer, now streaming on Hulu.
The Fox Hollow Murders, playground of a serial killer, now streaming on Hulu.
We continued with the investigation
and continued to try to have additional conversations
with Keyes to learn more.
We still have a lot of unanswered questions
at this point.
When did you first meet Samantha Coney?
Never met her.
Never even seen her before.
Meet Samantha Coney. Never met her.
Never even seen her before.
So why did you go to the Common Grounds coffee shop on that night at that time?
Because they were open late.
Did you know that they were open late?
Yep. Staked it out
Maybe two or three days before
He didn't know who was gonna be there before he got there
He assumed it would be a girl a young girl that worked there, but he didn't know for sure Did you have a gun?
Yep.
22 Taurus.
He threatened Samantha with the gun when you see her put her hands up in the video.
He instructs her to turn off lights.
I had my police scanner on and I had it in my ear.
He told her not to turn the alarm on.
That if she tries to do something, he would hear in the police scanner
that the police is coming and then he would kill her.
I told her to put her jacket on.
Had her get on her knees and back up to the window
and put cable ties on her hands.
After she was...
I had her arms tied up.
I had her move forward a little bit and
then waited till there weren't that many cars or people that I could see around.
And then I jumped through the window, took some napkins and put them in her
mouth and told her we were going for a little walk. We were only about 100 feet from the coffee stand, maybe 200 feet.
And she tried to get away.
He definitely picked a fighter with Samantha. I think she was just fighting in every way that she possibly could.
I tackled her after that she was serious. After that she gave me problems.
So what did you do with Samantha?
Put her in my trunk.
There was something about her, like the way she reacted to it.
She wanted to just keep going with it.
I had never done anything after Easton before.
I was just not a real adrenaline rush.
We took her where?
Oh, we went all over the place.
She kept trying to talk to me and I had to tell her to shut up a few times
because she was you know trying to make friends and stuff.
Samantha's talking with him and really trying to engage him in conversation and
asking him questions and she's doing what she should be doing. She's really
trying to personalize herself to him and she's trying to do what she needs to do
to get out of that situation.
I told her that it was going to be a quick exchange
as far as a ransom of some kind.
I was so impressed she was under.
While Keyes is driving around Anchorage,
he asks for Samantha's cell phone
and Samantha tells him that it's still at the coffee hut.
So he drives back to the coffee hut
in order to retrieve Samantha's cell phone.
My plan was to go in and out really quick.
I get her phone.
?
Yeah, so as soon as I got a phone, I started sending text messages.
He needed the phone in order to send the text to Samantha's boyfriend, which would ultimately
buy him some time before police are notified that she's missing.
After picking up the cell phone, Israel takes her back to his house.
It's after midnight, early morning hours when Keyes gets back to his house. It's after midnight, early morning hours,
when Keys gets back to his residence.
He takes Samantha into his shed,
which is adjacent to his home.
At the time, his girlfriend was in the home,
was still awake.
His daughter was also at home asleep. He's realized that he does not have her ATM card.
And Samantha tells him where it is.
And that is when he leaves Samantha and goes back to Samantha's residence
and goes into Dewayne's truck and ultimately finds the debit card.
I was going to go to the ATM, but then I realized I hadn't written down the PIN number.
So I had to go back to the house and get it from her.
Comes back to the shed and he gets the PIN number
and he scratches it in the debit card.
He then leaves, again, leaves Samantha in the shed.
He drives to the closest ATM to his house,
and he confirms that the PIN number
that Samantha gave him works on the debit card.
He's doing all of these things,
and Samantha is restrained in the shed.
He's seemingly out of control, taking very high risks. But I think that the higher the risk, the higher adrenaline
and the more satisfaction he got in doing what it was that he was doing.
It's now at least 3.30 in the morning. he was doing.
It's now at least 3.30 in the morning.
Israel gets back to the house after confirming that the PIN number works.
And he's now gonna fulfill his plan.
She knew.
She knew at that point.
I put my head right up to her ear,
and I said, you knew this was coming.
Israel told us that he sexually assaulted Samantha,
and then he strangled her to death.
Joy of myself. strangled her to death. Charlie Ramiro's son.
I knew from the minute she walked out of that coffee stand she wasn't...
She wasn't gonna live.
I think this is every woman's nightmare of what could happen.
This whole time there wasn't any light on the show.
And hearing it firsthand from somebody who was doing this was chilling, it was horrifying.
We grabbed a cable tie.
It was difficult to listen to.
That very morning after killing Samantha, he was going on a cruise from New Orleans.
He woke up his daughter, got ready, made sure that their luggage was packed.
Then they went to the airport and then they went to New Orleans, where his girlfriend joined him the next day.
What was your plan? You were getting on a plane.
Your body was in your shed. What were you thinking?
I was thinking it was 20 degrees outside.
No one had anything to worry about.
This is one of the worst details of all.
That someone raped and murdered a teenage girl in his shed at his home, and when he's done, goes back inside to his live-in girlfriend
and small daughter,
and hours later takes them on a cruise.
Pure evil.
Yeah, so I got back on the morning of the 18th.
At that point upon his return, Samantha is still in his shed.
When he was on the cruise, he still followed the immediate attention,
and he also saw that there was a big reward fund.
That's how the $30,000 idea came up.
I always knew that I was gonna put something
about money in the ransom note.
That was just a bonus.
Or as to what?
To the whole thing.
If I could eventually get some money,
then that was the plan.
That's the plan.
So he bought an old Polaroid camera in a thrift store.
He wanted to make her very much alive.
And so he puts makeup on her body, because by then there was some discoloration.
The biggest problem I had was with her face.
I could get the makeup to work, but there was no expression.
I think I took about five or six pictures before I finally had one that only showed what I wanted.
before I finally had one that only showed what I wanted.
The proof-of-life photo to me is one of the most harrowing
and indicative pieces of just how sadistic this guy was.
He made her up. He braided her hair to take that photo.
This tells you this is not just any killer.
Why did you forget?
To make it more believable, I guess.
The bottom line was to get money out of it.
But at the same time,
to get money out of it. But at the same time,
it's not like I didn't want to do it.
The way that Keyes described what he did to Samantha was
there was no emotion.
We're hearing this horrible thing
that this girl had to go through,
what this young woman had to endure, and he's just telling any old story.
And it was during those times he had dismembered Samantha in the shed
that he was gradually kind of taking her body out to Manuska Lake.
You know, I couldn't get it all out on the lake in one trip.
I'm honestly gonna have to go up there three times. So yeah, it took me a long time.
He set up a shack and that kind of secured that fishing hole because it looked like just
another fishing hole.
He used a sled to transport five big garbage bags from his vehicle to that hole in the lake.
And he came back on February 21st and February 22nd.
I had a parent-teacher conference that day. I didn't make it.
That was no problem. That I could release him for the next day.
And then you went to the parent-teacher conference after you had dumped a part of their body?
Yeah.
How did you stay calm enough to go and do that?
I didn't really think about that.
He's fielding phone calls from his daughter's school.
He's got parent-teacher conference he's missing.
I mean, think about the compartmentalization
of a psychopath like this.
Like I say, you got your monster.
You've got your monster.
If Keyes had not used that ATM card,
I don't know if he would ever have been found.
There was just no connection between him and Samantha.
But the way he talked about the planning that went into Samantha, it was evident that he had planned this out, down to the detail,
and it just didn't seem like this was the first time that he had done this.
I started to wonder very, very early on
who else this could have happened to.
We believe there are other victims in other states.
We are continuing our efforts to identify those victims.
We have been analyzing financial records,
travel records, any other records that are available to us
over the last several years.
Are there any other people that you're responsible for the death of?
I have lots more stories to tell if you're interested.
He takes us to a map near Burlington, Vermont,
in Essex, Vermont.
We didn't know what he was gonna say. Police are searching for a couple from Essex and they're calling their disappearance suspicious. Bill and Lorraine Currier were last seen around 5 o'clock last night.
My name is Lance Furnham. At the time of the Currier case, I was an investigator with the Vermont State Police.
And received a phone call about two missing adults out of Essex.
Two missing adults out of Essex.
A family member called police Thursday morning after discovering that neither Bill or Lorraine showed up for work,
telling police this was out of character for the couple.
We had two adults who had no involvement with police ever before.
Bill and Lorraine Currier, a longtime couple in Essex,
quiet, devoted to one another, dedicated employees at their jobs.
The Courier's green Saturn sedan is also gone.
Police say the Essex couple disappeared from their home
sometime between 5 o'clock Wednesday evening and 10 Thursday morning.
Bill and Lorraine Courier didn't fit the profile of people five o'clock Wednesday evening and 10 Thursday morning.
Bill and Lorraine Courier didn't fit the profile of people that would just go missing.
I'm Jennifer Courier.
I'm Bill Courier's baby sister.
He didn't have kids, so it was always his nieces and nephews.
He loved his nieces and nephews a lot.
He was planning on a family reunion that summer.
He loved his house.
He picked that area because the neighborhood was beautiful.
It was safe.
He wanted his wife to be safe.
They were not people who would stray from what their normal routine was.
They left the house at a certain time.
They closed the garage door at a certain time. They closed the garage door at a certain time.
They went to bed at a certain time.
And they weren't known to have a lot of people or a lot of friends in their lives other than
their family.
And of course, as a family member, you already know that there's foul play.
After talking to the family, Essex Police Department obtained a search warrant to go in the house and have a look.
Bill and Lorraine lived in a ranch-style one-level residence.
You could see your neighbor to the rear.
When I first got there, I was struck by the fact that the phone line junction box on the side of the garage
had a cut wire. The door was broken.
Within the garage there was a doorway to the house and the window was shattered.
Some of the broken glass was in the garage.
The majority of it was inside the house.
We have, at this point, clear signs of force entry.
As you entered the house, you entered into a very small kitchen.
There was no signs of blood. There was no signs of a struggle.
There was no signs of blood, there was no signs of a struggle.
One of Lorraine's sisters mentioned that Lorraine had recently purchased a firearm.
That she had a pistol she had kept in her bedroom.
But the firearm was missing.
There was medications for Bill and Lorraine that were still present in the house. Bill, we knew he had some medical issues.
If someone was just going to leave, they would take their medication.
We found Bill Courier's wallet and all the content still inside.
We could have gone down the road of a burglary within the house because the gun was missing,
but the likelihood of someone kidnapping two grown adults to commit a burglary is extremely rare.
We are heartbroken by their disappearance and at a loss to explain or understand it.
We're here today to plead for anybody's help, anybody's help.
You needed to gain information from their neighbors.
When was the last time you saw them?
Did you hear any screaming? Did you hear a gunshot?
Did you hear the glass breaking?
But there was nothing. It was a dead end.
It was a dead end.
So at the beginning phases of the investigation, tips are flowing into the police department.
We had many tips to run down
about many different people.
The quality of the information that they provided
was generally not good.
Nevertheless, it had to be run down.
The couple's car turned up abandoned at an apartment complex a few miles from their home.
We did DNA swabs within the car.
Common areas, gear shifters, things like that that people would have to touch
to operate the vehicle.
We take samples from all those areas.
The lab was able to discern a mix of DNA
from the steering wheel.
One of the sample DNA profiles
was not either Bill or Lorraine Courier.
We have a third party, somebody else that was in that car other than Bill or Lorraine.
Unfortunately, the result from testing this unknown sample was we didn't come up with a match.
It's been nearly two months since an Essex couple mysteriously vanished from their home. Now while police say that the disappearance is suspicious and they do suspect foul play,
investigators have not gotten the big break that they need.
We were getting phone calls, leads, but eventually as time went on, a lot of the tips
that we were getting were dead ends.
Certainly in a case where you don't have any clear avenues
or suspects or persons of interest that you're pursuing,
you're constantly thinking about, what have we missed?
What other avenues are there?
What have I not thought about?
Where should we go next?
There were multiple searches,
especially in the community of where Bill and Lorraine live.
Adjacent to their development is a large wooded area.
People were just walking around there,
trying to locate some sign of them.
Any abandoned buildings, any fishing access,
any riverbanks, but within that area of Essex
and its surrounding communities,
it's a huge, huge area.
So it can be very, very difficult to come up with a witness to something,
because it's not like the city where there's always going to be people on the street.
It's not like that here.
At this point, they're still missing.
We have nothing to link them to any homicide or anything.
The tips were not pouring in as they did previously.
or anything. The tips were not pouring in as they did previously.
There was just this overwhelming mystery,
just this pervasive question that lingered for a long time.
What the hell happened to the couriers? I never gave up on the investigation.
It was still always there, but it had been 10 months since Bill and Lorraine had been
reported missing.
You stop seeing the tips come in and then all of a sudden other cases come in, but it's
still on your mind every day.
But all of a sudden, seemingly out of nowhere, the police activity on this case really ramped
up again in the spring of 2012. My lieutenant called me and said,
you're not going to believe this.
A male identified as Israel Keyes had been arrested.
He had committed another crime in Alaska.
And he was then talking about the case
that he had done in Vermont.
It was like a bomb went off. was then talking about the case that he had done in Vermont.
It was like a bomb went off. I can't even begin to describe the emotion of that moment.
We just got the thing that's been missing all along
from this case, and that's been missing all along from this case.
And that's the truth.
They gave me his name as Israel Keyes, but I didn't know anything about him at that time.
So I'm pulled right back in because of Israel Keyes.
Because I want to know what Israel Keyes knows.
Any true detective wants to know.
We want to know the answers.
I want to talk more. I'm willing to talk more.
But only if I get what I want. This is Deborah Roberts.
Wild Crime was produced by Lone Wolf Media for ABC News Studios.
Next week we'll bring you episode three.
You can also stream it on Hulu and of course when you're there you can also find more from
2020.