32 Thoughts: The Podcast - 11:59 For Toronto

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

Jeff and Elliotte look at what Toronto’s series against the Panthers might mean for the club (1:00), if we’ll see Edmonton pick up their 5-on-5 play against Vegas (8:00), Carolina going to work in Game 4 (14:20), and the Stars go home tied 2-2 against the Kraken (23:30).They also get into some news from around the league including the latest on New York’s search for a new head coach (34:00), Landeskog out for all of next season (37:20), Philadelphia’s search for a president (42:00), Marty Walsh meets with agents (45:00), Draft Lottery (47:10) and how will Chicago rebuild with the number one pick in hand (54:30).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailOutro Music: The Flints - Same Things Every DayListen to the full track hereThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Altitude Sports, ESPN, KJR-FM, KTCK-AM, MSG, Sportsnet and WCMC.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

It's very, very nice. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the GMC Canyon AT4X. Friedman Marek Delic with you. Once again, coming up on this podcast, we will talk about the Philadelphia Flyers situation. Marty Walsh talking to agents. The draft lottery. Conor Bedard, Mike Sullivan, Gabriel Landeskog, Mike Babcock. The game's on Tuesday, but Elliott up first.

A game that could change a significant NHL franchise forever. Game four, the Panthers look for a sweep against the Maple Leafs. And if they complete it, cue the chaos. That's later on tonight. On the pod on Monday, I talked about how there's an overriding feeling of shock that less than two weeks after beating Tampa Bay, all the goodwill is gone. And I've spent a lot of the last 48 hours trying to figure out exactly what that means and the best answers that i can give you is that anything could happen and no one would be safe and beyond that i don't know what else there is to say you know we just came out of the draft lottery as you mentioned we're going to talk about that and we discuss how the draft lottery is a franchise altering night in the nhl wednesday

night could be a franchise altering night for the maple leaves and one of the conversations i was having today with people was what's acceptable out of this? Like if the Maple Leafs win Wednesday and they lose Friday, that's not going to be good enough. But if the Maple Leafs win Wednesday and they win Friday and they put a battle

towards the end of the series, and who knows, maybe they even win win it but what's going to be acceptable now like if they go to seven and then lose are people going to say okay they gave it a great fight or are people going to say forget it they blew it early and that's all that we remember. And the most important thing is how the ownership views it. And I don't think we have a good answer on that. But the one thing I think we all do know is that if they lose Wednesday, there are major consequences. And someone said to me, well, I've heard this before, and this is different. Now contracts are up. Like we always talk about how in certain places,

the clock is ticking or the bill comes due. We're there with Toronto now because contracts are coming up or people have to be extended. And now you're in a position where you actually have to make decisions on the cornerstone people or the executives. And they haven't been in this situation before. So this is different. And what happens Wednesday could be a major factor in determining where these choices go. Like you, I've thought a lot about this and what are the scenarios and what is acceptable.

And here's my thinking on it. My worst case scenario for the Maple Leafs isn't that they lose on Wednesday, Elliot. My worst case scenario is that they win on Wednesday and they lose Friday at home. The visuals, the sound of that rink, the emotional reaction, not just in the rink, but in the city of Toronto as well, as you know, will be overwhelming. Yes. Ag agree or disagree i agree with that i understand exactly what you're saying if you lose on wednesday the anger doesn't come in the arena no it's kind of a nod to what i was just talking about a couple minutes ago what is the result in round two from here that saves you from embarrassment well yes win but if you lose what is it and i don't have a good answer for that i'm with you

now when you say at every level that is above the general manager as well like you're talking about everything is on the table someone just said me, anything could happen because the emotions are high right now. And like, I'll say this, you have to make your decisions quick. Someone said to me, we're already in the second week of May. The draft is seven weeks away. People don't like to wait that long. So you're going to have a situation where you're going to want to decompress because you shouldn't make decisions when you're emotional,

but there's really not a lot of time. And one thing someone said to me is we're talking about Pittsburgh here and the belief that Pittsburgh is willing to wait a little bit. So someone said to me is we're talking about Pittsburgh here and the belief that Pittsburgh is willing to wait a little bit. So someone said to me on Tuesday, they're not willing to wait that long. So I think the biggest thing is how long do they decide to take a deep breath and then do what they need to do? But like I said, someone just said to me, anything could happen. What I would assume, though, here is when these conversations already have been had, if this happens, then we do this. I have a hard time believing that the people that will make this decision will wait for Wednesday and then start from ground zero. You know, I think you're not wrong, but I think the sheer emotion and the pendulum swing from post-game six in Tampa to where we are now, I think has knocked everybody for a loop. Okay, what do we know now?

Joseph Wall is a starting goalie. Yep. Mark Giordano is the seventh defenseman or he's not playing the core for Matthews and Marner talked really defiantly. Yeah. I mean, I think obviously as leaders, you know, we, uh, you know, I want to be step up, be there for the team and, and, uh, try to actually go out there, compete and lead by example. How do you deal with pressure at a time like this? Just go out there and play hockey. I mean, that's what That's what we've been doing our whole life. Can't really focus too much on the outside noise, what you guys are saying,

what everybody's saying. It doesn't really matter. All we can focus on is how we approach this game and the mental side of it and coming in with a purpose and focusing on just one game here, coming in. When you talk with the media, how much is it just thinking one game at a time and then you hear all that and you kind of at what the board's on to test here is i mean yeah i think i heard austin said and um you know i think we've been saying it this whole time i mean we don't care what you guys say we don't listen to you guys outside of this locker room uh we're just focused on ourselves and uh this group in here how much do you admit you austin i don't have a problem with that like

those guys should be mad but what they have to do is that they have to channel it in the proper way. Like the thing that I really think from Toronto is like, they know what's at stake here, those players. And we're going to find out, do they want to stay together? Cause if they want to stay together, if they lose,

they go down hard. They say, guys, you know, if they lose, they go down hard. They say, guys, if we're going to go down, we go down with an effort that people say they competed. If they go down mildly, they answer the questions for all of us. Wednesday could be wild, folks. Wednesday could be wild. Okay, Elliot, before we get the Tuesday's games let's back up to a game we haven't talked about yet and that is the Vegas Golden Knights

and the Edmonton Oilers Monday night game three a convincing win by the Vegas Golden Knights and a redirection by Stevenson who gets up the ice in a hurry great skater and for Stevenson doesn't try and do too much with this puck just get a piece of it

change the direction and it finds its way through Jack Campbell and into the net 5-1 Vegas and for the Golden Knights team that was first in the Pacific first in the West fourth overall in the NHL with some scores. This one ends up 5-1. Jonathan Marcheseau with a pair of goals. Laurent Boissois with the injury. Jack Eichel with a command performance. What stands out to you from game three between these squads,

Vegas grabbing a two-to-one series lead? I think the thing that stood out to me are two things. Number one, Aiden Hill. I felt terrible for Boursois, just awful. Guy came back from an awful lot. And, you know, fate is a cruel mistress, Jeff. And he deserved a better fate than that. But Aiden Hill, I thought, came in.

He immediately got a tricky save right away. And then I just don't think Edmonton tested him enough. Like, they came out really hot. Dreisaitl hit one post. Bressois made a couple of great saves. And then immediately they got a good chance on Hill. And I was like was like okay they're going to really challenge this guy who's still pretty cold and it just never happened you know

vegas a lot of credit they shut down the oilers attack the five on five thing really worries me for edmonton right now you cannot expect to win on the power play all the time in the playoffs and you know you get a night and you say oh we should have got more power plays you know what you're just gonna get nights where you don't get a lot of calls and you have to be able to win on games where that's the case and that was a night where they had no chance without it you can't have that further to amplify what he's saying is we've seen teams before, and we haven't really seen it with Edmonton, mainly because they haven't had to play like

this. But I mean, Elliot, how many games have you seen where teams say, you know what? Five on five, we're going to play 50-50 puck here, and we're going to take our chances on our power play. And that's going to be our thought going into this one. Edmonton's never had to play like that.

It's weird. It's almost as if they need the sugar rush of a power play to get into the game and they need the candy early in order to get themselves into the game. So they don't really look comfortable saying, we need to play 50-50 puck and wait for our power play chances here.

That is not a comfort zone for them, I notice. You know, as a guy who really appreciates the sugar rush of a good piece of candy, I really like that analogy, Jeff. Well, you've been talking about like chocolate cake and sugar and syrup and all kinds of things. Somebody was really busting me about how well I knew the Dairy Queen menu too. People are just all over me for this.

And the Skinner thing, like the Skinner thing is concerning me right now because I thought this was over. He had a really nice game too, but he got pulled again. And I think Skinner's your guy, but you know what else is really concerning me, Jeff? I had a conversation with a coach and he said said it's easy to talk about someone else's team like this because he doesn't even know if he would do it on his team like woodcroft is going to be loyal to bouchard he's going to be loyal to nurse and you know that's kind of the way it is but he said if he was looking at it from a purely cold-hearted way, he would try to bump those guys down in the lineup.

And I said, like, how do you do that? And he said, it's not easy, but you play at home a ton, and you rotate his partners, and you try to avoid putting those guys up against the best players, because they can't handle it right now i said that's a really tough one and he said and like i said he admitted on his own team he didn't know if he would be able to do that but looking at another team he'd be thinking that would be the the ruthless playoff thing he would have to do did you tell him that's what we do in media we talk a lot of crap from the backseat.

Yes, yes. Have any hands on the wheel? That's our job, not his. I said, you'll be perfect on the panel. That's very good, Jeff. I should have said that to him. But, you know, like he says that they've got a real problem there.

Like those guys are struggling quite a bit. And when your goalie's struggling, you can't have your defense struggling especially your top pairs it's a recipe for disaster uh do you have concerns about evander kane doing what we saw in that game at the end of the first period namely charging at alex petrangelo with a second left well i like that the golden knights responded to the challenge of their coach who said they were not a team. He used the Anthony Stewart line. You're a club, not a team in game two.

Well, in game two, they were a team. Four guys went right to Kane. Look, I'm sure Kane, he drove them crazy in game two. He was trying to do the same thing again. I'm sure that Woodcroft will talk to him about, you got to pick your spots better or else we're in trouble. Game four between the Vegas Golden Knights and the Edmonds Oilers goes Wednesday. Quick break.

We're back to talk about the Hurricanes and the Devils. Hurricanes putting up six. The Dallas Stars and the Seattle Kraken. Dallas putting up six. That's next. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime.

Elliot, Tuesday night, sixes were wild for the victorious teams. The Carolina Hurricanes 6-1 over the New Jersey Devils. Let's see the Dallas Stars 6-3 over the Seattle Kraken. Before we get to the late game, let's face off with the early 6-1. This was a game that was never really in doubt. And this was a game where, you know,

it's always interesting hearing the coaches after blowout losses. Sunday, Rod Brindamore did not mince words after his team fell 8-4 at the hands of the New Jersey Devils. And Lindy Ruff was equally despondent and, I would argue, disgusted as well at his team's effort. Can you explain what turned around there in the second period? That is a hard one to explain. That's about as poorly we've skated and supported the puck in any game this year. You know, I thought McLeod line gave us good shifts with puck support and hard to give up a goal late in a period. But can't let that bother you. Better keep playing.

Did that goal kind of deflate the team? No chance. Can't let one goal deflate a team. Brett Pesci finds the back of the net. Your guy, Brent Burns, finds the back of the net as well. We'll flip this back into the New Jersey end where Jesper Faust gets to it. Jesper Faust scoring his fourth goal of the postseason,

putting Carolina up for one and make it 5-1. Brent Burns, top of the right circle, hammers it past Vanacek. Freddie Anderson with the win. Vitek Vanacek with the loss. Carolina now have pushed the New Jersey Devils to the brink of elimination. They lead the series 3-1. Jordan Martinuk. You didn't mention Jordan Martinuk.

And also, not only did Jordan Martinuk score that goal at the end of the second period, but feathered a gorgeous pass to Martin Natchez for one of his two. Two and a half to go in the first. What a big double lead on a goal by Jack Hughes as the crowd tried to cut it. Here's Martin McConaghy. Martin McConaghy in five scores. What a play and what a redirect by Natchez

to tip it home, and we're tied at one. Well, you got a one-goal lead at home, and in the last two or three shifts i mentioned it's been getting a bit soft with the play of new jersey and some of their passing and choices of plays and the management just not good here's a turnover by mcleod in the neutral zone and the transition catches everybody out of the corner because luke hughes who was in the corner who started the play is not back in the middle of the ice yet. It's incredible.

He had no points in the first series, and now he's a top-ten scorer in the playoffs. How do you describe your role on this team? Just energy, energy, energy. That's what I try and bring. It's not sexy. It's just go out and work, and I think that's kind of the mindset of our team. So I

fit in well here. Well, you now have four straight multi-point games. Nine points in the series. We thought you had ten. They took away one of your assists. If I told you that going in, what would you have said? As long as we were up 3-1, that's what I would have been happy with. If I'm contributing, great. It feels good. But to be able

to be up 3-1 going home, I think I would have taken that over any amount of points. There's a stat out there. They keep, I guess for a guy who had one or zero points in the first round, he's got the second most points ever in the next series. Only Lanny McDonald, who had 13 in a series in the 80s, had more than him. Hats off to whoever came up with that one. That was the kind of recipe that Carolina wins with.

Kevin did a great job of showing how they absolutely shut them down at the blue line. They just stopped New Jersey in their tracks. They didn't let them enter the zone uh one of the goals i think the one one goal was a slavin made an incredible play with a stick and led to the counter that tied it that was a carolina clinic you cannot call brindamore a liar he said they would be better and they were it was a a very very impressive win and they own them after they got scored on they own that game i was a little surprised by lindy ross postgame comments not because i necessarily think he's wrong but just because i think the team's given it a really good ride and when i heard ruff and

i listened to what he said i kind of thought that you know maybe this was like a coach who's really loved this run like this year has been so much fun there for all those players in that team. Like they thought they'd be good, but they were good. And it's been so exciting. And I just wondered, watching Ruff, if he thinks it's coming to an end. Lindy, in the locker room afterward, Nico was talking about how the team didn't have enough pushback. Were you surprised at the effort there? We did not. I'm just telling you, I don't know what team, where we went we didn't skate we didn't support our defense didn't move

their feet trying to leave the zone all the things that we did so well the previous game we would go d to d look at the goal even go d D. We don't move our feet. We don't go north. We go east-west. We go D to D, back to D, which usually means death. There's not a lot I can say about it. I mean, tonight was probably as disappointing as I am of a game of, you know, a crucial game. With the way we skated and the way, I'll just say it again, they kind of flipped it. They competed harder in pucks. They won more battles than we did.

We got on the wrong side of the puck. You look at the second goal. Our defense coming back on the wrong side of his man. Let a guy walk in. So wrong side of the puck, wrong side of the man.

Come back to our end, we don't stop. We circle away. We give him a shot right from the slot. Stuff that's not typical for our club. They got in trouble against the Rangers. They came back and won the series, but he always seemed confident to me. This was the first time I watched him in the post game.

And I said, I'm not sure that Lindy rough thinks they can win this. And that's painful. So maybe I'm overthinking it, Jeff. That's what I saw. Now I am really curious to see what they're going to do for game five and goal.

If it was me, I would play Schmid. i think he's been your best goalie in the playoffs and i go down with my best goalie but as you know i've had this nagging suspicion that we could see blackwood we'll see what he does he He never tips his hand. I do Schmid, but it wouldn't shock me if we saw Blackwood. Listen, this is close out here. This is desperation. And the moments that sealed it, I mean, this was pretty obvious. I mean, there was a point in this game where Carolina scored four goals

in five minutes, and the New Jersey Devils just couldn't stop it. Yeah. No matter what they did, no matter what they tried, they could not turn the tap off. It was just speed bag. They were just getting speed bagged by the Carolina hurricanes and impressively enough too. And I always remark on this when, when Carolina puts up a six spot,

which they're able to do seemingly at will. Sometimes, you know, no Svechnikov, no patch ready, no Tara Vinen. And still this team scoring at will at times and scoring suddenly and often like that five minute stretch, you know, like someone would score.

I'd duck my head down to write a quick note about it for the podcast. I'd look up again and there's another celebration. Yeah. I really felt for Lindy roughuff because I know I'm with you and he's been like Lindy Ruff has been through a lot this season with the New Jersey Devils from the beginning with the chance and then the fun with the apology and the winning streak

and all of it and fighting tooth and nail right down to the very end of the season with the Hurricanes dropping a pair to the Rangers, getting blown out in their first two playoff games and then storming back to beat the Rangers in the Battle of the season with the Hurricanes dropping a pair to the Rangers, getting blown out in their first two playoff games, and then storming back to beat the Rangers in the Battle of the Hudson. It's been an emotional year, a really emotional year for Lindy Ruff. So I can really feel for the guy after, you know, listening to him post-game. By the way, Jeff, on the Blackwood thing, P.K.

Subban mentioned on ESPN the night before game four that he thought it might be Blackwood. And someone said to me, did P.K. ask you about what you said? And my response was, do you think P.K. Subban

listens to a word I say? No. We shall see who's in the starters nets. Dallas Stars and Seattle Kraken. And this was very much Dallas' night. Although late, Jaden Schwartz and Adam Larson tried to make a game of it.

Got the game within two pucks, but then Max Domi with the empty netter. Max Domi had a really good game. Two goals and one assist and was... Yes, excellent. Was good all night long. Kiva Ranta and his return to the lineup with the empty netter. Max Domi had a really good game. Two goals and one assist. Yes, excellent. Was good all night long. Kiefer Ranta and his return to the lineup has an assist on the Harley goal here in this period.

Harley on the left wing side. Got it down into the corner. Crowd making some noise here at Climate Pledge Arena. Final game in Seattle before things shift back to Dallas Thursday night. Here is Harley slicing in, feeding it. Hanley to the left side space for Domi from the dot shot. He scores! There's going to be a major complaint on the Kraken side

as Grubauer was bumped into. He was signaling to their bench. As the puck was coming off the back of the net and back out in front again i don't know for now domi appears to have made it three nothing it's another great play by thomas harley with his legs and grubauer is well out of his crease and jamie ben might have been shoved by susie a little bit too but no question he was draped all over their net, minder. What did you think of the Domi goal? Did you agree with the review or not?

You know, I thought Dave Jackson did a really good job explaining that, about how that was incidental contact. And I agreed with him. I thought it was fine. It was outside of the crease. And Jamie Benn has the right to that ice at that moment. I had no problem with the call. Did you not like it?

I had no good feel for it. Like, it's not that I liked or didn't like it. Like, generally, I look at these and I have an idea of how I feel. I had no feel for this one. Because I actually thought Grubauer was in the crease. He wasn't, though. Yes, he was. was in the crease he wasn't though yes he was with hang on with the skate he was yes with the skate he was in the crease but then when the moment of of contact with the glove occurred on the shot that pulled him off of his line that

was outside the crease and you know what my rule is and what what betman's rule to the league is you better have a freaking good reason for taking a goal off the board i think they thought grubauer embellished and that's why they they gave it to him but i admit like that one i did not have a good feel for that one the dallas stars tie the series up at twos heading back to Dallas. Six, three is the final. We wondered about Jake Ottinger, but I'll tell you again, coming out of this one better, better.

I know wasn't really tested. There wasn't the volume of shots to, to come up with a consensus on how Ottinger is right now. But to me, the start of the whole thing was, was Miro Haskinen. Yes. 31 minutes and two seconds

of ice he played over half the game if every time you looked up you saw Miro Haskinen and you said to yourself geez what's this guy doing playing half the game yeah you're right good call he played half the game and more Elliot yeah Haskinen and this is why like really intelligent reporters put him in the top three of their Norris voting. I said on the Monday pod, I thought it was likely he was going to play, and he did. And one of the things, I don't know how many people saw the broadcast,

but Kevin talked about how there were times he was supposed to wear a full visor and he refused to do it because he didn't think he could play properly with it and Kevin said his mother would call him and his wife would call him and the trainer would say you can't play without it and he would tell them all to get lost because he didn't think he could play properly with it and I wouldn't make fun of Kevin about that because I know if I was good enough to play in the NHL, I would probably try to do the same thing. Like, obviously, when I was a kid, I played with a visor, a full visor, and there were

times I got the opportunity to play without one, and it was very hard for me to go back and wear one so i would probably try to do the same thing now the thing that struck me about hayes good was not only how good he was but the level of intelligence he showed too and i'm not saying that generally i think hayes couldn't not a bright guy but go back and watch that game and saw how many times he avoided contact. Like there were times he turned away from hits. There were other times he could have initiated hits, and he just didn't do it.

He minimized the contact on himself. And I think that's so important and so intelligent for what he needs to do it wasn't only the fact that he showed up and was as good as he was and played 30 minutes as you said jeff it's that also he played a highly intelligent game where he didn't force body contact or take body contact unless he absolutely had to and a guy like Slavin was always the guy. He deserves more attention. He deserves more attention. He deserves more attention.

Haskinen is that guy. He is criminally, criminally underrated in hockey circles. In Dallas, I think you were in Vancouver at that point. I sat down with Max Domi and I asked him, I said, you know, who's the guy that you knew was good, but you had no idea he was that good until you got to Dallas and you saw him practice and you're on his team. And without missing a beat, Miro Heiskanen. The other guy that I didn't get to talk to on that last question you asked

was Miro Heiskanen. Honestly, like I knew how good this guy was, just especially from playing against him a little bit when I was in Columbus we had the same division with um the shortened season in the bubble and all that stuff so played against him quite a bit and I was like man this guy is so smooth he's unbelievable but now playing with him like you see him plays 30 minutes a night he's the best player on the ice every single game it's absolutely absurd I mean you see McDavid get the puck and take off through the neutral zone. There's really no one that can keep up with Connor. Everyone

knows that. And there was a play where I just saw Miro take two strides and he just kind of kept his stick right there. And I was like, wow, that is absurd. And honestly, everything he does, he just makes so many incredible plays and he makes everyone around him better. And we're very lucky to have him here. I think he's one of my favorite players to watch and definitely to play with. So he's unbelievable. So no surprise there. Hey, one thing, I continue to be impressed with Yanni Gord. I know it's a losing cause.

And listen, Jaden Schwartz with a pair, he was really good. Adam Larson makes it to 5-3 in this one. But there's a moment, again, I just love Yanni Gord. There's a moment right after jayden schwartz scored to make it five to two yeah and yanni gourd is standing right beside ottinger and as ottinger is getting up from surrendering the goal by schwartz gourd gets in his face i obviously i have no idea what he said to him i'm sure it it wasn't, hey, you know, wife and I are having a barbecue this weekend. Why don't you and the family come aboard?

I'm pretty sure it wasn't very nice, but it was more of that playoff intense Yanni Gord. It's a goal that makes it 5-2, and Yanni Gord gets a chance to get in Jake Ottinger's grill, and he takes it. It's one of those tiny little things that you kind of notice in a playoff series. If it's a Tuesday night

in Dallas, short scores, Gord probably just peels off and goes to the celebration circle. But in this case, he stands there to bark at Ottinger. I just love stuff like that for each. I know it's tiny and it's trivial, but I'm tiny and trivial. So I just loved it and I wanted to get

Yanni Gourd on the podcast because I've just continued to be impressed with him in these playoffs. Do you have a final thought on this game here? Couple of things. They put Jason Robertson on the ice with the empty net. Gotta get him going. And he had a chance to score and he didn't.

They desperately need him. He just needs one. like he had that breakaway in the first period and the guy scored 87 goals in the last two regular seasons in a regular season he buries that he needs like who scored the ass goal for florida in game three against toronto jason robertson needs an ass goal He just needs something to go in for him. Is that Carter Verhage? Yes, I think you're right. I think it was Verhage.

Robertson needs that. He needs an askle. The other thing I thought was interesting was Jared McCann. Jared McCann didn't have an overly noticeable game, but that's the game where you get him in there to get his feet wet for the end of the series this is now a 2-2 series we're going at least six and nobody's going to be surprised if you're going seven that was the get his feet wet game for jared mccann who by the way showed up in a great hat the fact that he got that game he'll be better in five and six and seven that was important the one game one i always remember was 2006 stanley cup final eric cole badly injured

during the regular season we think he's out for the year he shows up game six in Edmonton to play and he wasn't great because he hadn't played in months but then he was ready to go for game seven and Carolina won the cup and he was better I've always remembered that I look for get your feet wet games that was McCann's he'll be a lot better for getting this one in at this point in the series. This series now best two out of three. The venue shifts to Dallas. Game five on Thursday. Okay, Elliot, we'll finish up the podcast tonight with the news of the day and the speculation of the day and the wonderings of the day.

And how much do you wonder about Mike Babcock and the New York Rangers as their coaching search gets underway here? There's been a lot of rumors about could the Rangersangers get mike sullivan is mike sullivan a realistic possibility here i think that's the rangers dream you know some of us have like dreams right jeff like you go to bed at night and you dream about scoring the winning goal in overtime of game seven of the Stanley Cup final, or Zendaya breaks up her relationship with Tom Holland to go out with you,

or something like that. You know what I dream about, Elliot? What's that? I dream about being able to sleep more than four hours a night, but it's the Stanley Cup playoffs, so I know I won't. That's the level of playoffs. So I know I won't. That's the level of my dreams right now. I have a dream that I will not hear my iPhone go off at six o'clock or 6.15.

That's what I dream about. You know what your problem is? You wake up too early. That's your own fault. I do enjoy being up early. I believe the Rangers dream for coaching is mike sullivan like all these rumors coming out like what's the possibility of this what's the possibility of that i think that's the guy the rangers would love to have the problem is he just got an extension in pittsburgh

and basically you know they sided with sullivan in a battle battle with Ron Hextall about personnel and things like that. Look, one thing I've learned, Jeff, crazy stuff happens in sports. Things happen. You're like, holy smokes. I did not see that coming. As a matter of fact, you can say, holy smokes. I saw the exact opposite of that happening. So could it happen? Sure. I would be really shocked if it happened. I don't see that. I don't think Sullivan necessarily is available.

I do wonder if Babcock is on their radar. I think one of the things here is it's hard to see the Rangers going new. It just doesn't fit their MO. It doesn't mean they shouldn't go new. It's just that their MO is not to do that. And so if Sullivan is not available, who else kind of fits the bill? You know, Babcock is Washington went pretty far down the road with him when they hired Peter LaViolette. I have some suspicion, although I'm never going to find out because it's not the kind of thing he would ever admit.

But I would think that Detroit at least thought about the possibility of it last year before they hired panelist extraordinaire Derek Lalonde. So I think, I think teams have considered it. Nobody has necessarily taken the step. I'm wondering how much the Rangers are going to consider this. I think he's someone who's, who's on their radar. You think Chris Drury might look at a former teammate?

Which one are we talking about here? Patrick Waugh? The goaltender currently coaching the Quebec Ramparts in the QMJHL final against Halifax? It wouldn't surprise me. Like, Waugh also has the personality to handle that. It would surprise me if he didn't at least look

at it, for sure. Some bad news. Gabriel Landeskog. This was just yeah this one was just crushing you know you you feel for the player cartilage transplant in his right knee the surgery is today he'll miss the entire 23 24 season i know sometimes we joke about it a lot but like legitimately he's my favorite player in the nhl like i just think selfishly, this one just sucks. I just hate it. This will be two years without seeing Gabriel Landeskog. You wish him all the best with the surgery and everything that happens after. And we cross our fingers and say, hopefully at the end of all of

this for 2025, we have a favorite for the Masterton Trophy, which means that he's healthy enough to come back. A couple of things, your thoughts on Landis Gog and your thoughts on the avalanche now with a little bit of salary cap certainty for next season. First of all, I can't believe you're so openly cheating on Daniel Sprong. Like it's not right. Like be discreet.

Sorry. You had to fight it like this, Daniel. I'm with you on Landis Gog. I saw Mark Mathod's tweets about how he had that and he couldn't come back.

I hope for Landis Gog's sake that he beats those odds. He's obviously done a lot of research. You heard him talk about Lonzo Ball and other players, the research he's done. You know, I love, you know what I love most about him, and actually Kelly Rudy talked about this behind the scenes

on Tuesday night, is his attitude. I mean, like I said back in April, you know, at that point, we come to the conclusion that coming back and playing in the playoffs wasn't an option and wasn't going to be something we could do. We continued exploring and done more studying in the last month than I have since high school. So extensive research on my end and with the help of our medical staff on the team. And I've talked to numerous doctors and medical experts and getting opinions, learning more about what the different procedures would be.

And this is the one that we feel like is the best way forward and the best solution for me to come back and play hockey again. So it's been a process, but I feel confident in the decision and I'm excited to get going and excited to have the first step out of the way tomorrow morning like he looks positive as he always does and he won't let retirement even be part of the conversation like i think if you're gonna be successful you have to have that mindset until there's no other option like he clearly wants to play he doesn't want to just be a guy who

goes on ir and collects a check for the next few years no he wants to play and if that's your goal you have to be single-minded of purpose and i love landis cog for that you know i talked with you on your show on on tuesday about how you know the word is that whatever damage kind of created like a hole underneath his knee the fact that he's getting a transplant seems to indicate that something like that is the case as for the avalanche i think they've tried to sign byron before and you know, McKinnon's extension kicks in. They do get the LTIR relief of Landis Gog, although it's trickier in the offseason. Offseason LTIR is trickier.

But to me, the big question is, what is Byron's number going to be? Because I think they've tried to sign him. Colorado is proactive about this stuff. They try to get guys done. So what that says to me is so far, they haven't been able to find a number that fits. So, you know, that to me is the big one. How do you get a deal done with Byram? And then where are you going from there? There's a couple of other decisions. We've talked about this before, whether it's JT Comfer, who's a pending unrestricted free agent.

There's Alex Newhook, who's a free agent, albeit a restricted free agent here. So I keep coming back to this idea that at least, and again, I'm with you. We'll see what the Bowen-Byram number's at here. At least the Avalanche at least have a better handle on what they can do with their cap. They were a little bit frozen this year, not really knowing 100% when Landis Gog

was going to come back, if he was going to come back. Because we were under the belief that he was going to come back before the playoffs this year. And then it was maybe some time during the playoffs and then shut down. And now we find out this news. Philadelphia Flyers and their search. Are we getting closer to having a new president of hockey operations? And are we any closer to having an interim tag removed? I think Breyer's interim tag is going to be removed soon. I just think the president's

search is coming to a close too. You know, look, Philly at the beginning of this search, it was a little bit sloppy. Some things got out and, you know, one of the tricky things was, was it an interview? Was the conversation since then? I tip my cap to them. They've done a better job at keeping it quiet. Yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, I don't like it either. I like when people act professionally around us.

Yes, I like unprofessional behavior, Jeff. I have heard that people have kind of been told that Breer is going to have huge power in the hockey decision-making part of this job. I think there's at least one candidate who wasn't crazy about whatever role it was going to be because Breer was going to have the power. So I think it's going to be somebody who's there, whether it's a hockey person or a non-hockey person. I think they're taking the job knowing that that's the case you know one other guy who i kind of wonder about and i don't know that he's a finalist or anything like that but may have been interviewed here is keith jones oh yeah and uh

i think that's a really interesting name again i don't know that he's a finalist here or anything like that but that was a name that somebody mentioned to me today is someone who they thought at least at one time was in the mix and somebody that Philly was considering talking about. And, you know, like, I mean, depending on what Philly wanted to do here, like Keith Jones, if you need somebody who's a public face, like, you know, who dislikes Keith Jones? Nobody, nobody. Who dislikes Keith Jones? Nobody. Nobody. That would be a really solid choice, as would be Ed Olchek, who, yes or no, we should also keep top of mind when thinking about the Flyers situation.

I've heard Olchek's name for sure. It's just hard to handicap on this Wednesday morning slash Tuesday night. Tuesday night. In addition to people like Jones and Olchek, they've definitely talked about others who have kind of been in front offices for a while, who've seen the way things work, that can kind of be with Breer to say, okay, here's how we've handled this situation in the past. Just people who've been around. And for that reason, I wouldn't count out the likes of a Doug Wilson or a Scott Mellenby. I think that's also been on Philly's radar. I think they are specifically talking to one, maybe another person,

about what the contract could look like. Okay, listen, I know it's late. It's 1.30 a.m. and you've got to get your University of Western Mustangs pajamas on all purpley and get into bed and get into the wrapper and get your head on your pillow. But a couple of more things before you get into your purple. Yeah, all good. Calgary Flames and their searches, GM and coach.

Nothing much on coach yet. I think they've got a bigger group that they're going through right now, And we're probably within a couple of days or so of them cutting down that number and then going into the second round of their interviews. A couple more things quick. Marty Walsh, the executive director of the NHL Players Association. You know, when he first took the job, it was all about, OK, I got to meet the players. I got to get to know these guys. Got to do the tours. I got to talk to the commissioner.

And it sounds like now he's meeting with the agents. What's the latest? There are three agents meetings set up. One of them was on Monday in New York. The other one will be today in Los Angeles. And the final one is next week in Toronto. From what I've heard, it's unlikely the cap is going to go up

more than a million dollars. It's being reiterated throughout that the players are not willing to move on the escrow caps. And he understands that. I think there's definitely some talk about Arizona and, you know, they, obviously what happens next week. And, you know, I'll just say this about Arizona. There's a lot of people guessing. I think if we've learned anything when it comes to politics in the last few years, is that don't guess. I always remember Margaret Thatcher's line, which was, it doesn't matter what people think about you a month before the election

or a week before the election or a day before the election. It's what they think about you when they step into the ballot box. So I don't read any stories about it. I don't listen to people who are for it or against it because I think it distorts. I think polling now is such an inexact science because so many people don't answer their phones. The world is so skewed to one viewpoint or another. So, you know, we'll see what happens next week with the vote. I definitely feel that one way or the other, the players want some clarity on Arizona,

but those seem to be like the two hot-button topics. You know, Walsh is a quietly confident guy in how he presents himself apparently the other guy who does some talking there is ron hainsey and nobody's got more swagger than ron hainsey so i guess they made quite quite a pair that's quite a show to take on the road okay finish up with a couple of things here two things draft lottery night and conor bedard goes to the chicago blackhawks before we get to bedard draft lottery night like you don't go through a career like we have without making mistakes and when we make mistakes it's in front of people so i've done it before i've made mistakes i felt really bad for

kevin weeks i felt really bad for kevin Jeff, I'm with you. I've been a worldwide punching bag before. I know what that's like. I felt terrible for him. I won't make any fun of him. I don't like other reporters who do. I feel really bad for him. And that's all I'll say about that. Being someone who's been in that position before, I wouldn't wish it on other people. And I hate to see it. You know, I wanted to actually just talk about that a little bit because a friend of mine called me and he said, like, why didn't you guys react to that on air? Like you guys acted on air, like that didn't even happen. And, you know, I said, you know what, that's actually a really

good question. I explained it to him and he said, you should explain this on your pod because I didn't know all this. So I figured I would. So people think we know the results of the lottery beforehand. We don't, you know, they, they do the lottery about an hour to an hour and a half before it airs. And,

you know, the league always puts the video out and there were three reporters aaron portslime steven wino and frank cerebelli who were embedded in the room and you know i would encourage you to read their stories obviously kevin uh knew what happened like i think there's a small group of people in and around the studio who know but we don't know like in the studio doing it live on sports net with Dave and Kelly and Kevin we don't know who wins and so when that happened you know we went to the commercial break and initially I wasn't sure what was said. And then like our producer, David Azuma,

he told us what had happened and we were sitting here saying, okay, what do we do about this when we come back? And it was actually my suggestion. I said, don't do anything. And people were like, why?

And I said, do we know that he's right? and people were like, why? And I said, do we know that he's right? And nobody in the studio knew that what he'd said was correct. So I said, guys, the worst thing we can do is react to it, and then it turns out that that was some kind of slip-up, that the wrong thing was given to him, or the wrong thing was put in the prompter,

or the wrong thing was said in his earpter or the wrong thing was said in his earpiece so the reason we didn't react on air was we didn't know for sure that that was right and I just said we can't react to it if we don't know for sure in Canada like I said my buddy called me says why didn't you guys react to that I said because we didn't know it was correct you know the one thing is that I think when we make mistakes, we're a lot tougher on us than a lot of other people are on us and people will move on. That's life. And that's a good thing. Um, but in the moment, like Jeff, we did, we just said, we better not pay attention to it. Cause we didn't know for sure if that was correct.

You know, I've, I've made the joke before and it really is true in a situation like that. You're not sure, and you're not going to get any confirmation at that point. And, you know, you've heard this one out of me probably a million times by now. The old journalist creed, if your mother says she loves you, get confirmation. That's the way it kind of exists. So, Elliot, I'll be honest with you.

I wasn't surprised at all. I wasn't surprised at all that that was our studio's reaction to it. Jeff, when it comes to reaction to the overall lottery results, I was shocked. I can't tell you how many people around the league who I consider to be very smart people were convinced that it was rigged. I know people go on the internet and they're

all mad they and you know unfortunately with what happened they're like rigged rigged this was fixed this was fixed and again fans are fans i don't really have any problem with that people react very emotionally but like people in the league were like on teams and stuff were like this is rigged i'm like guys, guys, come on. Listen, I had the same thing because I've thought about this a lot. At the end of every lottery, everybody, unless outside

of the team that wins, is sour grapes. And I understand that in years gone past they just lose and they're petulant about it. Now they have something to point towards to sort of justify their little toddler tantrums that they didn't win. And it's a lot easier to say it's fixed as opposed to I lost. That's how I looked at it because I had the exact same experiences that you had talking to people.

And I'm like, are you insane? Like, do you think this accounting firm is going to risk their reputation to help Gary Bettman maneuver Conor Bedard to one of the NHL's biggest markets? Not a chance. But I just looked at it like, now they have a target to articulate rage so they don't just sound like toddlers who, you know, had a toy taken away from them. That's how I looked at it. And lottery conspiracies go back to 1985, like David Stern and the dry ice envelope with Patrick Ewing out of Georgetown to the New York Knicks. And the idea that Bedard ends up in a big market team that,

look, I get why fans say these things. Fans are fans, but I don't believe for a second it's rigged. I just don't. And my reaction to Bedard going to Chicago was probably the same as a lot of others. You know, I'm really happy for Luke Richardson. Same. So badly he wanted an NHL head coaching job.

And when he got that job, he knew that, you know, he knew it was built to lose and the odds were really stacked against uh him being successful there and now all of a sudden this generational player ends up on his lap i'm i'm very happy for richardson i don't mind the reaction of the blackhawk fans fans are fans and that's the way they're going to react. But I think it's important to recognize that not everybody feels this way. You know, for some families out there, it's probably very painful. You know, I just think it's important to recognize that on this podcast and I understand. I do. I feel the same. I think there are a lot of people that were,

and rightfully so, legitimately upset that it seems like it wasn't that long ago that we were talking about the Blackhawks and Kyle Beach. And now all of a sudden they get rewarded with a crown jewel and, myself included, thought the punishment should have been more severe. And I think a lot of people thought that the Blackhawks shouldn't be even in this place to be part of this lottery for Conor Bedard. Here's what I want to ask you about the Blackhawks now. They have around $41 million worth of cap space to play with, according to CapFriendly, for next season. Now, it's not the most robust free agent class, but this is an organization that has a lot of draft capital that they can turn into player capital. What do you think that Kyle Davidson does now around Conor Bedard? Because as you all know and everybody knows every move he makes will be to

service conor bedard and his career with the hawks i think it's still a little bit too hard to say like because the thing is this doesn't while this changes the course of direction for the franchise it doesn't change how successful it is prepared to be. This is going to need a lot of work. Oh, yeah. You know, remember Sidney Crosby starting in Pittsburgh. Remember Alexander Ovechkin starting in Washington. Remember Mario Lemieux starting in Pittsburgh. Oh, boy.

Connor McDavid in Edmonton. One player can rejuvenate your franchise and excite your fan base, and we're seeing it here, but one player can't win you a Stanley Cup. The Chicago Blackhawks, does it accelerate it a little bit? Yeah, it does, but look at the roster. There is a lot of work that needs to be done here. This is not you going zero to whatever and drive to survive and trying to win an F1 race. Like, you're still in the NASCAR truck circuit right now. Like, you're not ready to compete with the big boys. Now, though, what I do think is, is it puts you on the clock to, you better make sure that your plan is good for getting players.

The thing about the Blackhawks is they were under no real pressure to get good players quickly. Now they're under pressure to find good players quicker. They do have some really dynamic young players coming. Like I think we're under the assumption that Kevin Korchinski is going to be on this roster next year. After that, I'm not really sure how many, how many young kids they're going to move in right away. But you know,

this is an organization that has put a lot of good kids in the pipeline here. When this really starts to happen, not unlike what we've seen with the Buffalo Sabres, like the Chicago, and they've got someone that's now supercharged this rebuild, like when it finally starts to come together and I'm with you, this will not be in the first season, might not even be in the second season, but by the third season and some of these younger players and free agents and trades start to become part of the mix in Chicago. And I think trade deadline, by the way, next year is going to be a fascinating one for Kyle Davidson. I really, really do. This is going to be a team that gets better, maybe quicker than they had imagined before lottery night.

But now that they have Conor Bedard, everything is different. And here's what I think as well, my closing thought on what we saw on Monday and the effects of it. I can't help but think how thrilled Eastern Conference general managers are knowing that Conor Bedard and probably Adam Fantilli as well are going to the West and they don't have to deal with them. So wait a sec. Are you convinced that Fantilli is going to? I think that there is a strong, strong chance. It seems as if there's a drop off after one and there's a drop off after two. I think if Michkoff were available to North America next season,

there may be a conversation at two for Michkoff. But as it stands right now, it sounds very much like after Bernard, it's going to be Adam Fantilli. Leo Carlson might make it interesting, but I still think it's going to be Fantilli. My only other question about Bernard, who's he living with next year?

Luke Richardson. That's not a bad one. You know, Sidney lived with Mario. Yeah. Which I still wonder about for salary cap purposes, but that's for another conversation, Elliot. That was 17 years ago. Let it go. I'm still bitter about that one, Elliot. Eric, that was 17 years ago. Let it go. Still bitter about that one, Elliot.

Let it go. That is an excellent question. With that, we'll wrap up. Taking us out, our twin brothers from Manchester, England. George and Henry make up the band The Flintz. They got a spaced out psych-pop sound with a touch of 70s disco. Love it. They've carved

out a unique space for themselves in the UK with their unique sound. And from their latest EP, Keep the Party Going, here are the Flints with Same Things Every Day on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Enjoy. Feels like I can't breathe No sign of love up to my neck deep

Your hands on tight, got a hold on me It's so hard to see Spiraling by, trying to break free Can't crucify, get no sympathy At the ending of the world Get up all you can Go in every fight It's all gone upside down Ain't got nothing left to say

It's just the same thing every day Since the dawn of the modern age You wrap around and you can't escape Up and down, do it all again and again and again and again and again. It's just the same thing every day. It's the same dream, but you're out of the way. Stop your run, take a breath away.