32 Thoughts: The Podcast - 32 Goalie Thoughts - Part 2

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

Kevin Woodley of In Goal Magazine & NHL.com is back to talk …. goalies! Jeff and Kevin discuss active goalie pads (1;30), goaltenders taking their training off the ice using virtual reality (8:00), pad design (17:00), the reverse-VH (20:30) and they take a voicemail question about the Boston Bruins goaltending situation (22:30).PLUS, THE THOUGHT LINE IS HERE! Call the podcast and leave your thoughts, comments and questions.Toll-Free: 1-833-311-3232Email the podcast [e-mail] Outro: Shannon Shaw - Goodbye SummerListen to her solo debut record hereThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and guest hosted by Kevin Woodley.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

and for all you young hipsters out there here's a little something welcome once again to 32 thoughts the podcast uh elliot still off back for the next podcast the show brought to you once again as always by the by the all-new GMC AT4 lineup. And today, part two of my conversation with Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and InGoal magazine. Now, in this episode, and by the way, thanks to you for all the feedback on part one. We hope you enjoy part two. Some really interesting stuff here from Kevin, talking about goaltenders taking their training from on the ice to off the ice using virtual reality,

the idea of active goalie pads, and amongst other things, who created the reverse VH. So without further ado, here he is, Kevin Woodley from NHL.com and In Goal magazine, or as Elliot Friedman refers to him as the goalie whisperer. I want to ask about equipment and I want to ask about rebounds. And here's what I've always thought about rebounds, Kev. If I'm a goaltender, I either want my rebounds to die right in front of me or to take off and end up far, far away. Is there different equipment for goaltenders or is there a way that goaltenders can change their equipment to do one or the other? Because to me, the worst rebound is the one that's right in between being far away and right in front of you.

Yeah, no, I would agree with that. I mean, obviously, and this is a big topic of conversation today with, you know, a lot of talk about analytics and rebound control. Listen, the better you can control play by controlling pucks and freezing pucks and, you know, getting your stick on a low shot and steering into the glass because it's a reset with a face off or catching it and holding it. And, you know, those are all positives. You want to control as much play as you can as a goaltender and the ability to control rebounds is a part of that including steering some out of bounds and like i said into the into the crowd and let's start again line them up but in terms of shots

off pads the old pop pass off pads we were talking about earlier which can still have its place in the game there are differing philosophies in terms of equipment, and we've seen this evolve over the past couple of years. The idea that if you can kill it right in front of you and smother it, that is a positive. But the reality of most shots off pads, if you can't get a stick blade on it to really steer it, you have an element to control, but maybe not as much depending on the quality of the shot. And the philosophy that's evolved is if I have a pad that purposely creates a more active rebound, something that comes off the pad hot and travels further away, two things happen. One, the faster it comes off my pad, the harder it is for that guy standing two feet away

at the top of the crease to react to it because it's just coming off hotter, which means it's also going to go further before anybody else can sort of catch it and shoot it. And the further it goes before that next guy gets it, the more time I've had as a goaltender to recover to that space. And we've seen an entire lines of equipment

develop around this. As a matter of fact, Bowers, it started as the Odin project and Henrik Lundqvist was the first one to wear it. And he was actually part of this process because it was sort of one of those like, they won a funding project through Bower. I can't remember what exactly it was originally. And it was like, you guys get to reinvent something. You propose this, you won, go reinvent the goal pad. And the original intent was to invent a goal pad using a new way of building it, new foams, new materials that killed rebounds. But what they found was they couldn't kill them enough. Like you said, you ended up with the sitters, the ones that are just three, four feet in front of you, and those are death. And when they started to play with different ways of building the pad and different foams, they found they were creating

more active rebounds. And one of the testers, because Henrik was, you know, for all he did as a goaltender, he was a massive part of the evolution of equipment to the point where there's a loop on the back of every manufacturer's goalie skate now called a Lundqvist loop. And he used to use that because goalies used to have a strap on the bottom of their pads called a bootstrap, and they would tie it underneath their cowling to hold the pad down. Well, Lundqvist didn't want his pad held down. When he dropped to the ice, he wanted it to shift up. He wanted it to sit higher because he actually kind of had short legs. And so he got hammered by the NHL restrictions in terms of his max height. So he wanted to take the max height he was left with and have it shift up his leg in

the butterfly. So instead of tying the bootstrap through the bottom of his skate, he ran it outside the heel of his skate. And then eventually the equipment manager and him after about a year and a half came up with a, they sewed a loop into the back of the heel of his skate and he could run that strap. So he would still have a level of connection between his leg and the pad, but it wouldn't limit the pad's ability to rise up.

And now every major manufacturer has a variation of the Lundqvist loop. He literally changed the equipment game. And in terms of rebounds, he did the same by being this voice with Bauer's research project that said, no, no, no, I want that. Give me the active rebound. They came up with a new way of building the pad rather than stuffing foam and sort of having foam and leather sort of wrapped around and so on. They actually like compressed layers onto a core and stitch it up entirely differently. Like they sort of create a compressed pad shape like a molded

foam with multiple layers as opposed to layers of foam with leather stitched around it and put together and they they mold that into the shape of a pad and put it on on like a core a board and then strap it to you basically totally different way of making a pad way more active rebounds they also harden the inside surface so it slid a lot better. But everyone now, like other companies, have started chasing. And Reebok had a pad that purposely created active rebounds with new foams but a traditional build.

But now other companies are chasing that and you're seeing goalies. I remember Mike McKenna saying when he first got his first set of these pads, he couldn't believe it. He was shooting rebounds into the corner where guys were lining up for the next drill and him and the goalie coach

were just laughing their asses off because they couldn't believe how hot these pucks were coming off these pads. And I remember writing at the time because everyone would consider a big rebound, a bad rebound. And I'm like, no, it's not. And it's not just because it buys you more time to recover,

but that guy who's planted two feet above the crease. They literally measured it. Golf clubs, we always hear about driver's coefficient of restitution, COR, how much a ball comes off and explodes off the face of a driver. That's the same thing they measured when they invented these pads. As a matter of fact, the skin of the pad was called Cortec because it created this new higher coefficient of restitution and pucks literally exploded off the face like a driver. So yeah, everything is changing in goaltending, including what we want out of rebounds and the company's ability to generate it. I got a couple more here for you. I've always felt that right now, considering how goaltenders

play the position, like, listen, we all can go back and look at footage considering how goaltenders play the position, like, listen, we all can go back and look at footage. Every goaltender is standing up and getting lit up. Games are all nine to seven. That wasn't too long ago. The, you know, goaltenders, it's only taken, it's only taken you guys, Kevin, about a hundred years, but you finally figured out how to play the position.

Congratulations. But the way that it's played now is so taxing on the hips and the groin and the knees i wonder about virtual reality and how that can impact on goaltending training and help goaltenders not put their body through this intense wear and tear You first introduced me to a company called Sense Arena. Can you share what this company is doing with goaltending training? Because I know there's some adopters right now in the NHL and it really does point to the future. You know, it's funny because I think when I was first introduced to the concept of it, like a lot of people, I probably shook my head and assumed it'd be something like a video game, but it's not. It's incredible.

I don't know. I know you've been busy. I don't know if you've had a chance to try it, but you literally put this headset on and it is like you're in the crease. As a matter of fact, they warned me about this, but like a complete idiot, I ignored the warning. The first time I put the headset on, I was in my office. And the first step they have you do is sort of use the controllers, which you can strap to your

blocker and your glove. So you really are like playing goal with a blocker and a glove. And you can even add a stick to it that shows up in your virtual reality world. But the first thing they get you to do is use the controllers to map out a safe area. Well, I was just, I was talking to the developer and booting it up for the first time. And sure enough, it loads and I'm like, oh, this is so cool. I put it on. And I just wanted to sort of see what it was like and quickly forgot that I was sitting in my chair in my office.

And first thing I did was just instinctively make a blocker save. And I didn't have a blocker on. I was holding the controller in my hand at that point. I hadn't added the attachments to my glove and blocker. So within 30 seconds, I had cut open the back of my hand because I blocker saved into my desk, which I didn't know was there and managed to kick over a cup of coffee all over the place. Like you, and they literally warn you, like we've had like AHL and NHL goalies be like,

you really got to be careful, especially when you're on the road in a hotel room. Like you can hurt yourself if you punch into, like you got to give yourself space because you quickly become so immersed in this world. And they've got computer shooters where it's just computer generated shot and those are great, but they've also got, they've overlaid video with pros from overseas shooting. So it literally is like guys skating down the wing and let the release go. And you can see all those things we talked about Craig Anderson reading. You can see that.

You can see the blade, the hand angle, because it's actual video of guys shooting. And boom, that puck comes off and it comes at you. And it's the same, like they've masked the puck the same trajectory as they've filmed. So if the guy goes low blocker, the stick blade is set up for a low blocker. And that's what happens. Like they won't have the guy show low blocker and the stick blade is set up for a low blocker. And that's what happens. Like they won't, they won't have the guy show low blocker and then go high glove. Like it's all very realistic. And it's easy for me to say as a beer leaguer, I can't believe how realistic this is. We've got guys like Philip Grubauer who use it for warmup. Um, you're seeing goalies, um, uh,

Bill Ranford's using it with the Kings. You're seeing goalies in the AHL use it. Eric Comrie, who's off to a great start with the Jets this year, did a webinar with us, and he's a big believer in it. He'll even sit there and sort of test his angles. You can take the replay and go back from the puck perspective and see how close you were to it. So it'll show your frame in the net, and you'll see, like, just missed it. So he's trying to get a read for when he's safe. Like, he'll sit there and

actually let pucks go in and then go look at it from the other angle and see, okay, how much of that net that I have covered, like how much did I need to move to get into that puck? And in a game where shifting your body rather than reaching is much more preferred, it can really help you get confident with controlling your space and how much of that space you need to close off. And in goalie terms, we call it box control. Like if you think of the net as a six by four behind you, that's really big. But in order to get to that six by four behind you, it has to pass through a much smaller space. Well, and actually Pete Peters used to do this with fishing line. You take fishing line from the four corners of the net and take it to the puck and put the goalie in the middle where that puck has to go past you. That box in front

of you that lines up with the big net behind you is much smaller. And if we as goalies can learn to not worry about the six by four and just control that much smaller box in front of us, it requires much smaller movements. Connor Hellebuck used to do this when he was a kid. He'd use the mini nets at USA Hockey. Somebody taught him how to sort of build that through using the mini nets as the smaller net in front of you. Don't worry about the big net behind you. Again, once you understand that concept and can successfully control that box, life gets really easy for you. And Eric Comrie, there's box control tools in Sensory and Eric Comrie really swears by, you know,

using those tools in the virtual reality world. It's a great way to warm up. Talk about saving your body. Like forget, you know, you can do that. You can juggle and do all that stuff. Why not just throw on a headset and take 15 minutes of shots and really without dropping into the butterfly,

get your hands warm, get your movement warm, get your tracking on track. It's, it's like, is, is my business partner at Engel, uh, his son,

uh, Matthew Hutchinson, who, by the way, at 15 years old already has a win in the BCHL, uh, said, Hey,

good plug. Yeah. Well done. It is a cheat code. It is like a cheat code. Does that sort of underscore one fact? And that may be, and again, I'll go back to considering how the position is played right now, goalies practicing on the ice every day

maybe isn't such a smart thing for them. Well, this is an old bugaboo of mine. And I'll never forget the first time I wrote about it. I honestly thought it was a throwaway column because I just assumed everybody knew that practice is not always very good for goaltenders. And when I wrote about it, my message is just like off the charts from goalies. Finally, somebody said it like, oh, a lot of team practices, a lot of team practices. It's not just that they suck for goaltenders because listen, this is part of the job. You get paid a lot of money. Sometimes you're not a goaltender. Sometimes you're just a target. And a lot of goalies will tell you, you need to accept that too.

That's part of the gig, especially for backup. Like you're not always there for yourself. There are times you are there to help your teammates get better. And you better not just roll your eyes and kick rocks every time they ask you to do it. You better put some effort into it. And if you do it the right way,

you can actually get something out of it. But if you're doing that end over, like every day, every day, like three on a rush drills and guys winding up and picking corners from spots on the ice with time and space that they won't get all season, you start to wonder where that makes sense

for the goaltender, where it makes sense for the playersaltender, where it makes sense for the players. And I still see it. I see it less, but I still see it. In the NHL on a daily basis, these endless rush drills with guys getting looks they will never get, never. And one after another. And eventually, if you face enough of that, you build bad habits. And I think the point good goalie coaches make to try and get their teams away from it is, are these the habits we want our players to have? Like, are we building good habits for shooters? If they're never really going to get this look with this time and space, are we helping

anyone? And a lot of times it's just to get the legs going and feel the puck. But in a lot of cases, it goes on and on and on. And, you know, it's like shin get the legs going and feel the puck but in a lot of cases it goes on and on and on and you know it's like shinny in the summer goalies that play shinny in the summer have to be really careful not to build bad habits because the game isn't like it is for real and eventually from certain ranges on the ice if a guy is coming down two on oh or three on oh like the only way to get across for that pass if he makes it is to cheat and if you get into a habit of cheating often enough often enough you might start to do it in a game and if you do it in a game

at this level at that level as soon as the guy sees you lean in one way he's scoring the other you're good Some emails we get here, and this one's appropriate for this topic. I want to start to finish up here and I want to ask this question of you. 32thoughtsatsportsnet.ca is the email address. Todd asks this one. This is particularly salient for you, Kev. I understand Kelly Rudy's point about the black tape Todd asks this one. This is particularly salient for you, Kev. I understand Kelly Rudy's point about the black tape not being an advantage to shooters.

Did I ever tell you that story where Kelly used to laugh at me? I'd say, Jeff, like goalies can see depth, you dummy. It doesn't matter if you have black tape or white. Anyway, did you happen to ask him about goalie pads and whether or not they are occasionally designed to give shooters the appearance that there is more space between a goalie's legs. He's asking me that one, but I'm going to defer to the whisperer. Kevin, your thoughts? Well, I think Patrick Wall, remember Patrick Wall had a set in Montreal that was sort of, there were stories about it being designed. There was white sort of down on the inner edge that was designed to sort of make it look like there was more space in the five hole. We don't see as much of that now, but it brings us

to a really interesting topic. And there are some designs that are maybe trying to make it look like there's more space. But the biggest thing for goaltenders is looking big. And part of that is the trend towards white equipment. it's boring the goalie aesthetic fans want to see bold colors like elvis merz lickens with those baby blues he had they look great oh i love those gorgeous i have a set of baby blue bowers in the in the in the in goal garage upstairs i love that color but we actually have teams in the national hockey league and goalie coaches in the national hockey league who wouldn't allow allow Elvis Merzlikens to order those pads he would not be allowed to wear those in a National Hockey League game the equipment manager would say I'm sorry these

don't meet the specifications you can't use them where they actually mandate not that the pads be entirely white but that the outer edges of the pads be white because they don't want dark shapes on the outer edge of the pads or gloves because in their mind, in that split second when a shooter's trying to see where the goalie ends and the net begins, it becomes a very obvious visual frame. And they would rather have white on the outer edge of the pads to create a little bit of visual ambiguity in those split second decision for shooters now a lot of goalies and a lot of shooters will tell you that's a bunch of hooey i'm envisioning mike mckenna just losing it right now as i say that because i know he doesn't believe in it um but i know here in vancouver like uh thatcher demko wanted to do a kirk mclean

tribute set uh with the the dark black uh hallow jerseys, the downhill skate jerseys, I think it was two seasons ago. And he basically couldn't because McLean's pads, of course, were all black. And Ian Clark is one of those goaltending coaches. He's not the only one, but he's one of those goaltending coaches who is open and honest about this rule and why it exists. And in his mind that you know every advantage you can get you take and if you that shooter is just even for that you know in like less than a second has any hesitancy on where that pad ends and the net begins that's an advantage for you as a goaltender so that's you know i've heard of i think it was ben scrivens told me when he was with the

kings he ordered an all-black set of vans uh that he never got to wear or that got gonged by the equipment manager. And I've heard stories like that around the league. So maybe not so much designed to show five-hole as much anymore, not like Patrick Waugh back in the day with that old set of co-hos, but certainly trying to make themselves look bigger. Anders Nilsson, prime example. He wore dark blue CCMs his year here in Vancouver. Didn't have a great year.

Took a look at some video of himself and felt like he looked small, right? Black is swimming. Dark colors are slimming. Went to all white pads for the world championship. Backstopped Sweden to a gold medal. Had some funky designs afterwards. Those great Brian's ones with the beast with the claws when he was in Vancouver his last year and then in Ottawa.

But they always had white edges because he felt it made him look bigger. So some guys, whether it's true or not, if you believe in yourself and you feel better looking bigger, then I don't see why you wouldn't make that switch. Okay, you mentioned Anders Nilsson, so I got to go here. The reverse VH. What can you tell us about the reverse VH

and Linda Blomqvist? The reverse VH, when we talk about hips and stuff, Robin Lehner will kill me if I don't say that it is a scourge to him for the hips and the stress it puts on the joints. And there are a lot of goalies that feel that way. And it's one of the reasons we got to, you know, goalies got to be smart about the way they practice. It's not just about dropping to the ice.

The reverse puts a lot of stress on the body. But if you do it right, it's very effective. dropping to the ice the reverse puts a lot of stress on the body but if you do it right it's very effective and it was developed in sweden linda will be the first person to say that it wasn't just her it was her and some other people up at lilia but she is sort of largely credited for being a big part of developing what is the modern reverse vh and you know got to be careful here because there used to be post leans and things that sort of some goalie coaches will argue was a reverse VH, but I'm talking like truly modern inside edge engaged, using it as a swivel, moving in and out of that post and around that post, using that inside edge. That really, that came from Lillia. It came from Linda Blomquist and

her team. They proposed it actually at one of those, I talked about those national symposiums that they would have where everyone gets together. I think it may have even been like her project for a next level of certification, sort of going through and developing and proposing this technique. And I think it even got sort of dismissed once and then they came back to it later.

And Thomas Magnuson, who was the head of the federation and goaltending there, thought she was onto something. and so it developed from there so the roots of a proper modern RVH started in Sweden with Linda and the irony of course is Anders is from Lulea and he learned it over there so he comes over to the Islanders to start his NHL career and he's got this cutting edge new technique that is now, you know, Roberto Luongo will tell you changed his career when he finally learned it later on

and made a massive difference because he's a little bow-legged. He couldn't get into a standard VH without giving up that pad along the, he had trouble keeping the bottom pad above the goal line. So it changed a lot of goalies' careers. Well, Anders Nilsson would have been the first in the NHL to use it, except when he arrived with the Islanders,

the goaltending coach there told him, that'll never work in the National Hockey League. You can't do it. We want to wrap up here with a question we got on the thought line, and it's a goalie one, and we'll roll it. Hey, guys. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the Boston Bruins goaltending situation

as Tuga Rask gets healthy, see what they're going to do with Allmark, Rask, and Swayman. It's been pretty clear that Rask does not want to leave Boston. He's been seen skating in Boston. So with Allmark's contract, Swayman being the promising up and comer, just wondering what you guys think they'll do. Thanks. Love the show. The Boston Bruins goaltending situation. Kevin Woodley, you want to weigh in on this one?

Well, I'm a big Linus Allmark guy. I'm also a big Tuukka Rask guy. Like to me, Hall of Famer, probably first ballot. you very much so it's it's interesting i mean the only thing i can think of i'm also a big jeremy swayman guy and because i'm me i got to give you an aside here do you know that jeremy swayman's breakthrough year and at the university of maine he credits part of it to ballet he does he actually took a ballet class he does he took a good on him nice his mom teaches bar he took a ballet class because some of the senior skaters had taken it and he really felt it improved his movement his dorsiflexion through the ankle which is key for goaltenders and him and the goaltending coach at

the time Alfie Michaud they agreed like they could just see a difference in his movement and his is the way he was getting around the ice and they really felt it was linked so not only has jeremy kept using that as part of his off ice training routine and helps when your mom's an instructor and so he you know he's open about using that as part of the way he trains but alfie's actually had his other goaltender since at the university of maine if not he doesn't force them to take the, but he's definitely got classes he likes them to try in terms of bar or ballet. So I don't know which way it goes for them. I'm big on Swayman. I think... As a quick aside about Swayman, if I can interject here before you finish your answer, you know why I like Jeremy Swayman? No. Old school number.

He chose number one. You don't see that in the NHL anymore, Kevin Woodley. It kills me. This is a great point. We've actually had an article on it recently in ingolmag.com. Yeah, it absolutely kills me that it's the decline. It's the number I wear because Roberto wore it. Roberto said it best. I asked him when we first met, like, why do you wear number one? And he just, you know, with a little bit of swagger said, because number one says it all. So I'm happy to see that Swayman's wearing it. I love it. I'm happy to see that Eric Comrie's brought it back.

Joel Hofer had it the other night in his NHL debut, but sadly it was forced. That wasn't by choice, unfortunately. That was just the option he was given. We checked in. Casey DeSmith wears it. He wears number one. Yeah, I'm trying to remember what the numbers were, but like it is there. They're like four or five, I think two regulars last

season in the NHL ward. And it used to be the de facto number. Now, listen, it's retired in a bunch of places, including in Minnesota. Don't get me started on that one, but you know, I get it. You know, a guy like Thomas Grice couldn't wear it when he went to Detroit. Cause it's retired there. Some guys though, it's, it's just a lot. I'm with you. It's an old school thing. I want to see it come back, but it's a bit lost. I love it.

Sorry, finish your answer. Any chance you get to talk about goalies wearing number one, I always take it. But go ahead, finish your answer. Honestly, and the thing is, it wasn't a great answer because I just don't know. The only thing I can say is Jeremy Swayman, if he doesn't require waivers, that may be your simple answer there.

You have a chance to bring back Tuca, as good as Jeremy has been in the National Hockey League, to combine him with Allmark. It's hard to see how you don't. And so I'm as fascinated as the listener who sent the question is to see how this all plays out. And I think sometimes, as you know, Jeff, sometimes something as simple as who can go down

answers the question as to who does go down. This felt like five minutes, but it was 90. You're a good man, sir. Thanks for parking more time on this podcast than you probably originally thought you were going to. But I know you love talking about it and I love listening to it. And I think our listeners feel the same way. All right, plug time. Where can people get in touch with you?

Where can people read and see your work, Kevin? Well, if after this they still want to, we still do run, we're not doing it weekly anymore. Just access is a little tougher in a pandemic world. But every couple of weeks, I have a column on NHL.com called Unmasked where we try and,

you know, some of these things like burning rubber and stuff like that. We try and find some different angles into goaltending. So check that out at NHL.com. And above all, InGoalMag.com and the InGoal Radio podcast with Darren Millard as our host. We talk goaltending and two goaltenders every week there. And if I can plug InGoalMag.com,

if you're not a goalie, probably not for you. But if you're a goalie, there's nothing else in the world like it, frankly. We do video breakdowns of saves with NHL goaltenders where they explain their reads and what they're seeing on the ice and why they choose a certain save selection and what they're looking for, handedness, where they are on the ice.

Every week we have a new one of those with everyone. I remember the first one I did with Carey Price just blew my mind, the amount of detail that these guys pick out. So if you're a young goaltender, I just got a note this week from a goalie in Switzerland playing junior, thanking us for pro reads because it's improved the way he reads the game, seeing all the information that other NHLers look for and sort out before they make a save selection or choose their depth or how to play something. So it's a huge tool at ingolmag.com that we offer. It is a subscription site. We have teaching tips, drills, on the ice with Carey Price, on the ice with guys like

Connor Hellebuck and Devin Dubnik in the summers. And we bring all those drills to you and little takeaways and tips so that if you are a goalie, whether it's beer league or just coming up through the ranks or a goalie parent, we will help you enjoy the game more and get better at it um at ingoldmag.com i'll add one thing to that um you don't just have to be a goalie to enjoy that all you have to be is curious uh about hockey and this is a treasure as are you uh goalie whisperer thank you so much for stopping by the podcast uh this week much appreciated pal you be well we'll do this again somewhere down the road,

hopefully sooner than later. Thanks, Kev. You guys listened to me for 90 minutes ramble about goaltending. All pleasure is all mine. And there he is, the great Kevin Woodleyley really hope you enjoyed listening to that conversation both this and the first part of it if you haven't listened to part one it's available check it out want to thank kevin for stopping by and if you enjoyed listening to kevin over the past couple

of podcasts do him a favor do yourself a favor because you'll learn something. Check out his work at NHL.com and also in Goal Magazine, where he is a managing partner. Also, thanks as always for the emails and the audio clips, the phone calls, the voice messages on the 32 Thoughts line, or the Thought Line as we call it. Email address, and we got a lot of these, man. Keep them coming. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca The thought line, 1-833-311- 3232 Please use liberally. But as

Elliot says, don't go Broadway. Nothing too long. Make it snappy. To the point. Let's go. Taking us out, an artist from Northern California whose love of music came a decade after she was gifted a bass guitar by her boyfriend. Shannon Shaw's 60s rock sound

was influenced by her parents only playing oldies from the 50s and 60s in their home. She'd go on to form her own band, Shannon and the Clams, releasing six studio albums, the most recent this year, and while playing bass for another Bay Area band, Hunks and His Punks.

In 2018, she released her debut solo record, Shannon in Nashville. From that record, here's Shannon Shaw with Goodbye Summer on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. bleached hair pinked up cheeks and county fairs jumping in rivers all day long how did I miss it now it's gone goodbye someone

goodbye someone goodbye Summer, cool, but summer, cool, but summertime. I dug my way through the mountainside. It's hard just to get by. Sinked in the shadows of an empty room Stick to the darkness, it'll be over soon