32 Thoughts: The Podcast - 33 Thoughts?

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

Jeff and Elliotte open this edition of the podcast with the latest developments in the 2018 sexual assault investigation in London, Ontario involving Hockey Canada players. They transition into a discussion around Patrick Roy's emotional return to the Bell Centre in Montreal (11:52) and then unpack what has plagued the LA Kings the season, and how this promising roster can turn their season around (22:50). Elliotte discusses the potential for Erik Johnson to be moved from Buffalo (36:17), the guys lay out their main takeaways from the Steve Staios presser in Ottawa (38:03), and Jeff and Elliotte talk about Ryan Smith's application for NHL expansion to Salt Lake City, Utah (59:47). The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (1:06:42) and then sit down with Winnipeg Jets Head Coach Rick Bowness (1:15:49). Audio Credits: MSGSN & the LA KingsEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Elliot, as you and I talked about on radio the other day, this is not the end of anything, but the end of the beginning of something. The June 2018 sexual assault involving the 2018 Canadian World Junior Hockey Team. Five players have been instructed by London police to surrender in association and in connection with the alleged sexual assault. What do we know right now? We anticipate certainly a press conference on the 5th by London police, but where is the story at right now? Obviously, Jeff, this is a seismic time for all the wrong reasons. It's a very, very sad story, And I think one we all wish did not exist. I thought we would hear something a few times after last season. Around the draft, there was a lot of noise that we would get some clarity and we didn't. Around training camp, there was a lot of noise that we would get some clarity and we didn't.

And, you know, if any time Commissioner Bettman would have an availability, he would be asked about it and he would say things along the lines of we're getting there. And I think once he said, hopefully we're closer to the end. But we don't have anything to announce or say at this time. And finally, I had the chance to sit down with one person who has a lot to do with what's going on. And what they told me was it was going to be very hard to get any closure without legal charges because I think that it was made very clear that if anything was put out into the public sphere without proof, there would be legal ramifications, lawsuit, something like that. I was basically just told without criminal charges it was going to be very very difficult if not impossible to move the situation along or get any clarity or closure you know for example with Hockey Canada in particular they have a

report done it's in its appeal process. You know, Hockey Canada took a lot of criticism for the way they handled this at the beginning. They didn't handle it very well, very poorly, as we all know now. And there was a firestorm of criticism because of it. It had a massive effect on them financially. They lost sponsors. It damaged the entire organization, the name, the brand. People lost their jobs and reputations were destroyed. And Jeff, if you'll remember, there was one time in the aftermath, I was very critical of someone on this pod for something that they did. And a friend of theirs called me to complain. And I told him that that was my opinion and I wasn't changing it but the one thing I got from that conversation was there was definitely a feeling in hockey Canada that not everybody who was responsible that night had paid the same price and that there was a

feeling that they wanted to get their report out so that the full details would be known. But because of the legal concerns and the appeal process, but the legal concerns too at the time, that was before the appeal process, they just weren't going to be able to do it. Now, Shane Pinto, which obviously isn't the same thing, but if you look how it was adjudicated, it was a 41-game suspension, an agreement of no appeal. The suspension was announced, he served the penalty, and now he's back playing. Again, it's nowhere near the same thing, but it was an example of how something could be adjudicated relatively cleanly. He accepted the punishment, There was no appeal. That was it. That was not going to be the case with this situation, sadly. They knew that anything they tried to do without proof, there was going to be a big fight. So I think that's why this was taking so long in the last few months.

I think there were times everybody thought it was close, but in the absence of criminal charges or the potential of criminal charges, there was a concern about a penalty, laying a penalty laying a penalty or going public with anything well now we know it looks like on February 5th there are going to be charges laid and you know we should mention that the London police tweet that alerted us to the media conference says anticipate so I'm always careful with that so you know I will we'll see what happens at that time and you still have to be careful a few lawyers I know they warn me like if you're talking about it in the next few days be very very careful what you say until the charges are actually laid because there's a lot of circumstance that we can guess at but you don't know for sure and don't guess this is not the time to guess and the other thing too is you know in the aftermath of what happened with Kyle Beach you know Jeff we underwent

a lot of training about how you should handle these situations and what's the proper way to approach them. And one of the things that was really told to us many, many times was always respect the wishes, such as they are what we know, of the victim or the people involved. And the victim in this case has done one interview with Robin Doolittle of the Globe and Mail, where she's quoted as saying she's not comfortable with how public all of this has become. So I've always kept that in mind too. Don't guess, don't say anything that you don't know know because that's also the wishes of the victim the one time that she has been quoted so that I've always kept in my mind so you know February 5th is obviously going to be a big day again for all the wrong reasons and I would assume there we're going to get a better idea of what the charges are and also what some of the ramifications will be.

Again, because Hockey Canada's report is in the appeal process, I'm not sure that we're going to be able to hear from them, but I assume we're going to hear from the NHL. They will probably wait for the official announcement before they announce any suspensions or penalties such as they are and also the teams too you know once the teams hear what could happen will their owners want their general managers or organizations to act in a certain way.

So unless any other stories come out before then, that's going to be the big day for when we're going to have an idea of where this is headed. Okay. A couple of things that I want to add to that, Elliot, and one, just a further note of clarification on something as well the Hockey Canada report and the NHL report now we discussed this on the radio show the other day as well and for those that didn't hear I want to share it here as well because they may have heard the exact same thing there were some who believed that the reports, part of the reason the reports didn't come out from Hockey Canada or the NHL was there was a fear of prejudicing in some ways the London police investigation itself.

How much of that, if any, do you know to be true? I don't know that, Jeff. I'm not saying it's wrong i just don't know the the thing that was explained to me a lot was like i said there was just concern about if you put something out there that didn't turn out to be true you could face a lawsuit or legal ramifications that was what was told to me was the biggest hurdle i'm not saying you're wrong i just didn't hear that as much the um the other thing too in the spirit of um respect the victim's wishes through a lot of things as well i think there's a couple of things that i would just like to add just to keep in mind too. Certainly in this situation, we think plenty about the victim here in this situation too. There are other people in

the hockey universe that are going to be impacted by this that I think we should be mindful of as well, whether it's team employees, whether it's women specifically who have, you know, perhaps been victims themselves, will find this an increasingly and increasingly challenging environment to work in. And, you know, a lot of, you know, a lot of hockey fans as well have either been victims themselves or certainly no victims as well like we're going into a very very awful time and i would just like to think that as much as you know everybody will follow the story and follow where the facts go we should always keep in mind to a the victim in this case but other people who are impacted by it and the coverage of it. So if we could just, I think,

if I can just make a small appeal, Elliot, just try to be thoughtful of everybody here because this is about to be good for nobody. I agree with everything you said there, Jeff. That's extremely well said. Look, I'm far from a perfect human being, but I always try to treat people respectfully. Far from a perfect human being, but I always try to treat people respectfully.

This is going to be a very, very difficult time. We don't know what the future holds exactly, but we all know it's going to be hard and it's going to be sad and no one is going to benefit from it. I wish nobody would have to go through this. Nobody. You're right, Elliot. I couldn't agree more. Let's take a quick break. When we come back, 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts, the podcast,

presented as always by the GMC Sierra. Jeff Merrick, Elliot Friedman, Dom Schramatti, along with you. We have a lot to get to today, whether it is Utah, Elliot, whether it is the Los Angeles Kings, Elliot, whether it is the Ottawa Senators, Elliot, whether it is, and we'll start here, Patrick Waugh and the New York Islanders in Montreal on Thursday nights. Quite the evening. It opened up beautifully. As we've said before, I've always made this point. There are two places in the world where they do celebrations properly. One is Buckingham Palace.

The other is the Bell Center. And we saw that, Elliot, during the national anthem, the video montage. Patrick Waugh, I think, tried to hold it together and didn't do a very good job. No one could hold it together when you put something like that together. Your thoughts on, before we get to the game itself, your thoughts on the montage, the tribute to Patrick at the Bell Center. I think everybody realized this week that the game of hockey is better when Patrick Waugh is involved and nobody recognizes that more

than the fans here in Montreal. A raucous ovation for him when they started showing pictures of him on the video board during the national anthem and the standing ovation that continued through the end of the anthem and almost to the opening face-off tonight did you see wa at the end of the anthem yeah he kind of swallows a little bit oh yeah like it got to him well did you really got to him in a good way in a good way in a really good way but did you see what he tried to do to to get his attention off it right away it was like fist bumps to the assistant coach okay come on let's get into this it's like no one's buying it no one's no one's buying it's okay to be you know that kind of

emotional about a moment like that. Those things can be really tough. Some players have told me before, because especially if it's about you or someone you're really close with, you really have trouble focusing on the game. Like Jeff, when we think about Patrick Waugh and emotional, we think about fiery nature. We think about passion. We don't think about Patrick Waugh and emotional, we think about fiery nature. We think about passion. We don't think about sentimental. There's not a lot of sentimental Patrick Waugh out there. The day he retires and the great question, who was the player on a breakaway that really scared you? He's like, no one.

Even on the day he retires, he's not giving it up. Defiant. The defiant Patrick Waugh. But in that moment, for one of the few times, you see him look really sentimental, how much that meant to him. And the thing I thought about when I was looking at him is, you know, Marty St. Louis got a big future there, and I think he's going to do a great job there and win a lot

there but you kind of have to look at that and imagine what would it be like if patrick oh i know montreal can i know i know i know we all thought it game 42 they're booing them after a 2-1 loss but you know i i couldn't help but think about it And then the team came out and just had us laid an absolute egg in the first couple of minutes, although they came back and tied it. Tough, tough loss in regulation. I think the other thing I really liked about the day in Montreal, I was disappointed when I heard the Islanders weren't doing a morning skate. I was really disappointed when I heard that.

Because I understand Lou Lamorello, the team is bigger than the individual. But Patrick Watt coaching in Montreal after all these years. I know. So I was at least happy there was an early media conference. And it was a good media conference. It was. So I was glad there was something. Yeah.

Because I thought we really lost something. Initially by them not being there in the morning. Do you ever associate sentimentality with the Lamorello Elliot? Well, we'll call this the unsentimental duo, Wah and Lamorello. But, you know, we are,

I mean, you don't have to sell Patrick Wah and Montreal. I'm sure every ticket was sold, but at least we got that media conference. Cause initially I was like, really? But at least we got that media conference. We did.

And we got a very interesting game. We got a very exciting game. We got a very controversial game. A quick couple of thoughts before we got to that, you know, furious ending sequence to this one. Your thoughts on Brendan Gallagher, on Adam Pellick. Pellick did obviously not look very good going off. The high hit from Gallagher, the five in the game,

and we suspect a knock on the door from George Peros well look as we tape this pod we have not seen a notification yet Brennan Gallagher's never been suspended I believe he's been fined once but the only question for me is, is this in person or not? And we talked on the last podcast about Yanni Gord, the suspension that he got. I was surprised he got two games. But then you realize there was an injury involved and he'd been suspended once before.

There is an injury involved and he'd been suspended once before. There is an injury involved here and Pellick is already returning from a concussion earlier this season. So what you're looking at here for Gallagher is a dirty play. That is the kind of play the NHL really targets and two, and we'll see how it plays out. There's an injury. So to me, and two, and we'll see how it plays out, there's an injury. So to me, the only question is in person or not. And reminder for in person, they have the option to suspend for more than five.

Yes. And it was that penalty that allowed the Islanders to jump back into the game. Power play goals by Matt Barzell and Kyleyle palmeri and we were all thinking wow the islanders got this into overtime but then cue the heroics sean monahan with the second goal of the game and the montreal canadians end up winning this one by a final score of four to three that was quite the closing sequence at the bell center on thursday night elliot? Sean Monahan is a really interesting case because I've noticed there's this big debate online about do the Canadians get a first round pick

for Sean Monahan? Well, there's a couple of things I look at here. I would say that A, it depends on how many teams are interested. And B, it also depends on, you know, what the chances are of a team being interested to resign him. I would say the base baseline, he's probably not a guy they're going to get a first round or four unless a team wants to extend them or there's such a race for him that it pushes it up into that first round range i think the most interesting thing i heard about monahan is first of all there is a lot of respect for him when you think of the kinds of things that he's come back from and yep you know how

he's still playing after his body basically broke down people really admire his passion for the game. That this is a guy who really loves hockey so people really respect that about him. The critique I heard about him is that how high is a Stanley Cup contender, it's not even really a critique about him, it's just about roster building is how high can a stanley cup contender put him in the lineup like if you're looking for a second line center on a really good team and you look at who you're going to face in the playoffs night in and night out yep not sure that that's the guy like vancouver for example i don't know that um if you're looking to put someone in between say the 649 line if they stay together and teddy bluger i'm not sure for

that spot i'm not sure that he's their guy that's why i think I think Vancouver is looking at more like Lindholm or Adam Henrique, guys like that who can, obviously everyone knows Gensel, but Lindholm or Adam Henrique, guys who can sort of move around your lineup. I think if you're looking for a really good third line center and you don't need him to take a top six role, I know there's a couple of teams who think that's a more perfect spot for him.

But what he's doing is impressive. He's up to, what, 33 points? He's having a really good year. It would be a wild story, too, if they do end up somehow getting a first-rounder for Sean Monaghan. And then we can say they got a first-rounder for taking him and got a first-rounder for trading him. He got a first rounder for taking him and got a first rounder for trading him.

Would make him more than one of the more interesting players in recent memory around the NHL. Another dangerous hit on Thursday night, Elliot, in the Calgary Columbus game. Jonathan Huberdeau with a bad one catches Jack Roslevic from behind headfirst into the glass. Boone Jenner comes in you can see huberto's face right away like oh i didn't mean to do that but nonetheless he did that well also it's not the same level as gallagher like no no no at least it's it's not a good play as you're right like huberto has to ease up there it's right from behind but at least he's doing it in the context of you know trying to make a play the gallagher one is in another universe um but yeah he got ejected and we'll see where this one goes uh huberto also not a guy with a dangerous reputation or a dirty reputation no but you know it's a he deserved the five minutes and

you hope jack roslevic is okay um okay so patrick wah the gift that keeps on giving he's the christmas morning story uh we'll still be talking about patrick while i'm sure at the same time next week elliot's um nothing patrick wah does is quiet and usually everything is a headline and there's a few more headlines we should probably go over here oh by the way here's what i wanted to mention last week on the podcast we were talking about which game in specific had the most hall of famers involved in it and wondering hmm i wonder what game that could be oh yeah do you know who came to our rescue who's that ej raddick sent me it sent me a text with the answer and the answer is 19 19 players in one specific game 1956 stanley cup final game five detontreal, 19 Hall of Famers.

Now, Al Arbor was in the game. He later went into the Hockey Hall of Fame as a coach. Well, he's still in the Hall of Fame. He's still in the Hall of Fame. But EJ Radek, great job, bud. We checked it out, too. EJ's right on the money. 1956 Stanley Cup Final, Game 5, Detroit, Montreal.

19 Hall of Famers, Elliot, in that game. EJ Raddick, you are, as we say in French, comme un Dion Francais, le premier étoile, the first star. Thanks for coming through with that one. By the way, I have another answer to something from last week's pod, but we'll

do it at the end of the segment. So just remind me. Looking forward to that one. Very good. good very good um okay let's focus on the la kings here for a while things are not going what's the word i'm looking for good for the los angeles kings they are i'm good i'm good losers of 12 of the last 14 games hey it's on say kopitar night celebrating a number of different accomplishments for the captain of the Los Angeles Kings. Hey, look, the Los Angeles By the way, that was a great little ceremony. I loved it. Listen, I loved everything about

the ceremony. I loved the way that Daryl Evans was dressed for the occasion as well. He looked fantastic. The Los Angeles Kings go up 3-1 at the end of 20 minutes against the Buffalo Sabres. It's cruise control. The Kings are back. This is awesome. And they surrender

four goals in a row. Afterwards, Drew Doughty did not mince words, talking about how we went up 3-1 and some I'm paraphrasing here. Some players just thought that this was a points night. It was a cookie night. I think we got guys in this room

who are too worried about themselves and worried about their points and worried about stuff like that. We get a 3-1 lead tonight, and guys start thinking it's a cookie night, and we stop playing the way we know how to play, have an awful second period, and then aren't much better in the third. Todd McClellan, both angry dad and disappointed dad at the same time as well. They head off for a three-game road trip before their little break.

They face off against Colorado, St. Louis, and then Nashville. Then they have a pause. Your thoughts on what Los Angeles is going through right now. This is not the team we saw at the beginning of the season, Elliot. No, it's definitely not. That looked like an absolute Stanley Cup cup contender a team that was going to be a nightmare to deal with even in a really tough division made angles look smart remember eric angles smart well you know what that's probably what undid them as much as anything

else is that eric angles was on their bandwagon they had no chance with that although again this year my predictions have been an absolute nightmare yeah position here when that happens with dowdy it's like when it happened with devontae's in colorado yes it's never coming out to the media without first being internal so what that's telling you is internally, they've been hammering each other about this. They have been, this has been an issue internally for some time. And now Drew Doughty is like, I'm disgusted and I don't care. And it's boiling over. It's almost like in any relationship that goes sour sometimes you have to hit rock bottom to get it back right and that was rock bottom in drew dowdy's mind so he's putting it out there

now all these guys like people are guessing is he talking about because they're talking about because you know you know what it does it's like the guys who get points right like yeah oh is he talking about kempe or is he talking about fiala like who's he talking about so now people are are guessing are absolutely guessing and always healthy always healthy always because if it's because if it's not you and people are guessing you you're like what did i do to deserve this oh why am I catching this yes now look I think I think obviously a lot of this is focusing on Dubois and especially because McClellan called him out basically in a reasonably polite way but he did call him out he said guy's got to be better it's time we cannot and pierre luke dubois as per the cba

has the right to use the cba to his advantage as much as he can okay but what's your line dogs never bark at park cars no no no yeah dogs don't bark at park cars. No, no, no. Yeah. Dogs don't bark at park cars. That's right. So when you put yourself out there like that, and especially the way, you know, Columbus traded him after he had that shift where he didn't do anything and Winnipeg traded him when, um, you know, he said, I'm not going to sign their longterm, which again is his right. when he said, I'm not going to sign there long-term,

which again is his right. You piss off people and people start rooting against you. People out there can have this debate about whether or not that's right or that's fair, but that's the way it is. That's the way it works. And there's no question people are having their schadenfreude on Dubois right now. the the people who don't like him they are loving this now my interest in this is purely okay what's what's going on here

he's better than this he is a much much better player than this and what someone told me and this is someone who's seen a lot of Dubois over the years is that the word on him is when he wants to play he's a difference maker he changes changes games. Oh, yeah. He is exactly what the LA Kings hoped they were getting on this eight-year deal. The problem is, and this is what someone said to me about Dubois, is that he takes nights off where he's not into it as much. And it can be very frustrating. It frustrated Columbus and it frustrated Winnipeg and the problem now is that when you're on this salary you cannot take that many games off

like nobody plays 80 perfect 84 how many games we play now 82 now, Jeff? 82. Yeah, okay, thank you. Thank you for your help. Nobody can play 82 perfect games. It's not humanly possible. But when you're a team's top player, your percentage of games that aren't very good, especially when things aren't going well, it has to be very, very low. And when your team is struggling, it basically has to be zero.

Because people look at you and say, you're one of our highest paid players. We need you out here. And that's what this person said to me is that, you know, the contract is the contract. You're worth what someone is willing to pay you. But the more you get paid, the more the pressure ratchets up. The more you get paid, the more the pressure ratchets up. And when you're that guy that the team goes out and get and says, this is the final piece, which is essentially what the LA Kings did,

it's a double whammy. Now you really can't have too many nights off. And Pierre-Luc Dubois, in his history, teams who had him felt he has more nights off than you need from an absolute core star player. And that is what Dubois is going to have to change. When you look at this Los Angeles Kings team, a team that is right now in free fall as they hit the road, as I mentioned, Colorado, St. Louis, Nashville. Composition or coaching is always the question we ask about any situation. What do you think the issue is here? And what do you think LA does about it?

Look, I think if they really wanted to make a change, they could have made it on Thursday. I don't think they want to make a coaching change. I think that they believe that one of the reasons they, they were floundering a couple years ago, right? They weren't where they wanted to be in their rebuild. Yep. And McClellan comes in he installs a structure and you know they they make the playoffs two years ago they lose in seven

games the oilers they make the playoffs last year they lose in six games to the oilers now but they believe that he was creating a structure that, like people were picking them for the Stanley Cup this year. Eric wasn't the only one. I mean, there were questions in goal, but their roster and the way they played, I think they look at him and said he was a big reason for that. So I think they want to reward that. But, you know, I'll tell you, this week in the NBA, Jeff,

there was a coach who was fired in his first season. He was 30 and 13. I think they were the third best team in the league. Adrian Griffin, his name, is coaching the Milwaukee Bucks. Now... Is Lou LaFerrillo the GM of that team too? It's actually really funny. Now, I haven't read enough about it.

Obviously, there's been a lot going on this week, more serious. So I haven't had a chance to read a lot about it. But someone said to me that there's going to be a team that looks at this in hockey and they're going to say, hmm, this NBA team just did this. And you look at all the bounces we've had so far, John Hines initially, Chris Knobloch initially, although that I believe is as much health as anything else. Someone looked at me and said,

there's going to be a GM or an owner in the NHL who's going to look at that 30-13 coach getting fired and saying, you know what? Sometimes record be damned. We got to do what, or the way it looks be damned or history be damned we got to do we got to be a bit more cutthroat and you know but i really do think the kings say a lot of the gains they've made structure wise are because of mcclellan and And I think they really don't want to change that unless they absolutely have to.

Anything else on LA? A couple more things I wonder here. Do they kind of unleash Clark a little bit more? Like right now... Brant Clark. So listen, Brant Clark, little bit more. Like right now... Brent Clark. Sort of listening to Brent Clark, the defenseman. Like the fans out there are wondering, you know, Clark and Spence,

they never play together, really. And I don't think coaches are trying to sabotage themselves. I always think that there's a reason that they're doing what they are. But I wonder if you get to a point where you simply say, all right, time to try something a little bit different.

I wonder if you get there. I just want to see Clark more because I'm fascinated by him as a player. Like, I see the numbers he put up in the American Hockey League this year. I want to see more of it at the nhl level but again i don't think coaches sabotage themselves i think they have a reason but sometimes circumstances force you into changing your reasons elliot can i be that guy okay can i be that guy that says things like this i saw him play for the dom mills flyers in the gthl i saw him play for the barry colts of the ohl if he's even remotely close at the nhl level to what i saw in the gthl in the ohl elliot. You're going to have a lot of fun watching this guy.

Last year when he went back to the OHL, it was so clear. It was so clear that he had completely outgrown the league and was ready for his next challenge. If Elliot gets anything close to that defenseman, look out. He's so much fun to watch. You're bang on. So much fun to watch.

Thank you for letting me be that guy on the podcast um okay a couple of other things here um eric johnson and the buffalo sabers you know buffalo is the opponent um for the uh for the los angeles kings the other night where things went south um and i think we're wondering about the future of the buffalo sabers uh what is the thought on the coaching staff what is the thought Buffalo Sabres. What is the thought on the coaching staff? What is the thought on the general manager? What is the thought on trade deadline? What is the thought on the goalie situation?

What's the thought on Eric Johnson? I have to, so I've started to hear his name a little bit. It makes a lot of sense. It makes a lot of sense it makes a lot of sense to me uh eric johnson is on a one-year contract um he is a couple years and not a big number 3.25 so it's it's manageable and you'd also be willing to see what buffalo's willing to do. And he's only a couple years removed from a Stanley Cup championship. Really good team guy. Keeps himself in great shape. Loves, like we're talking about Monaghan, really loves hockey.

I just had some people say, watch this one. There's going to be interest in Eric Johnson. And unfortunately for the Sabres, it's not going to work out this year. You know how teams out there feel. This is the kind of guy they love adding for the playoffs. Totally. Winning reputation, easy fit in your dressing room. You know, the other thing someone said to me is because he's been in the Western Conference

all this time and switched to the East, you know know he's a guy who understands both conferences like you talk about the adjustment from east to west or west yes and how the conferences are different you don't worry about that with Eric Johnson because he's been in this one after playing in the other one for a long time you know to me so I think this is a name to watch um like i said i just had a couple people say to me put eric and he's a right hand shot and and they just said put eric johnson on your radar the sabers are going to have some options here interesting uh also in that same division the ottawa senators and they had a very interesting Thursday morning, specifically Steve Stahos, general manager.

Eric Johnson's a pro. He's a pro. But he probably wants to go somewhere for the Stanley Cup this year. I really believe that. But, you know, pros and veterans are what the Ottawa Senators are very much looking for to complement the group that they have right now, according to general manager Steve Steyos. A couple of things about this presser.

And, you know, Patrick Waugh's name was discussed. Jacob Chickman was discussed. The Quora was discussed. Vlad Tarasenko was discussed. The one thing that has always struck me about Steve Steyos, when I hear him speak publicly, it almost seems, Elliot, as if he's determined not to be that guy on Twitter ever. Not going to give anyone that 20-second soundbite that's going to be all over

Twitter. He's very calm. He's very measured. He's very deliberate. We know that he's a very thoughtful guy as well. But what were some of your takeaways from the Steve Stahels State of the Union address on Thursday? Well, I think that goes to what we've talked about, that they just generally want to calm the noise in Ottawa. That it goes back to what we talked, like the Senators players saying there's too much craziness there. So number one, I think Stahels was a player.

And what's one of the things he got upset about that Chikrin's name was out there that's very player-esque right. A lot of the GMs who were former players like Ron Hextall like Ron Hextall people didn't like his secrecy. He told me once that's why he was so secret because he knew what it was like to have your name out there and he didn't like it and Staeos strikes me is because he referred what it was like to have your name out there, and he didn't like it. And Steyo strikes me as because he referred to that directly, he's a former player. He's saying, you know what?

He doesn't like that. So I think that has a lot to do with it. But also it's, hey, I just don't want to pour any gasoline on the fire. There's been too much of it here lately. Right. You know, it's interesting when he talked about not liking Jacob Trickern's name out there. Did you not get,

because he kind of walked right up to this line. I was half expecting him to say how, you know, disappointed he was and other general managers for, you know, whispering that, you know, the Ottawa senators were talking about Jacob Trich. And he kind of walked up to that line, but never quite crossed it. But, you know, the chicken thing is interesting. I think that there was a lot of interest around the Michael and Lauer interview on France in French and his intimations about Patrick and the timing of everything and how that didn't work for the Ottawa Senators.

Did you have a thought on the conversation around, here we are talking about Patrick Waugh again, about Patrick Waugh and the Ottawa Senators? Well, what was his quote? The timing isn't right? Yes, yes. So I think what that's about is, what have we talked about?

That the Senators have said publicly and privately we have to get this coaching hire right we have to get it right now as much as we all love wah if and what's happening this week how would you feel if the ottawa senators were told you've got to hire Patrick Waugh right now and you can't talk to anybody else. Yeah, that's a good now. Or you have to move up your hiring process now so anyone you talk to has to be available for now. Although really, if you're going for Waugh right now, you know, like, let's just say WHA said he was offered the job Friday. So let's just say it's last Wednesday and Patrick WHA calls you and says, look, I could be going somewhere else.

Do you want me? What that said to me was the Ottawa Senators, if that was presented to them, they weren't doing it. They were like, that's not enough of a search. To me, it said that, similar to what you're saying, is they want to talk to a lot of people that they're not allowed to talk to right now.

Yeah, 100%. I mean, that's obvious. That's so obvious, I left it to you and wasn't even going to say it. Well, that's my job on this podcast here to to play the wait a minute elliot are you trying to tell us that blank blank blank blank blank um you know i i think it's interesting too and you know the sort of undercurrent of everything in ottawa when it comes to coaching um i don't want to get your thoughts on this as well is craig barubi and we all know the association with Craig Berube and Dave Poulin,

former teammates. Poulin has talked openly and flatteringly about Craig Berube. And so we say to ourselves, okay, if Berube comes in, it's a Dave Poulin decision. And that very well may be true. But one of the things that I wonder when it comes to Craig Berube, Stanley Cup champion, St. Louis Blues, as much as it may be an association with Dave Poulin, and again here, I'm not saying that a player is making a coaching decision. All I'm saying is this player, through his father, is well acquainted with Craig Berube, and Berube knows the family very well. That would be a very big Brady Kachuk move as well.

Let me ask you something. In this case, do you think that's a plus or a minus? I assume it's a plus. Do you not? I actually had this debate with someone the other day. And first of all, let me just say, yeah, let me, because actually I said it's obviously a plus and someone said to me i don't think it is and it's a and it's someone who i

think is very smart i said why don't you think that that's a good thing like to me it's obvious and he said first of all i think craig berube is an excellent coach. I said, okay. Keith Kachok and DJ Smith had an excellent relationship. And he said, if you're trying to change things up there and trying to push the players to go to the next level, would you want that same kind of thing or would you want something different? And I kind of laughed and i said do you think that keith kachuk could tell craig berube what to do i said i i actually think craig berube could be one of the few people that could put it could stuff keith kachuk into a locker and but he said you know but you know he said no he says like if i was the manager i don't know if i do it

and like i don't know how the senators feel about this and as you said dave know he said no he says like if i was the manager i don't know if i do it and like i don't know how the senators feel about this and as you said dave pool and said really nice things about uh craig berube before he's got a lot of respect but i just wanted to when you mentioned that i just wanted to put it out there because i just thought it was an interesting perspective like you know he said there's a lot of people in hockey who know the Kachuks and like the Kachuks, and they deserve it. They're great hockey players and a great family. But you just wonder, would you go for a second coach who was really tight with the family?

Two more things from the stay-house presser that I want to go over with you quickly here. One, the Vlad Tarasenko question. And he said, yes, he's of course, we all know he's an impending unrestricted free agent, trade deadlines on the horizon. And he said he hasn't had any conversations with Vlad Tarasenko or his representatives. But then I'm curious how you see this one. To me, he went into shine Vlad Tarasenko for trade deadline mode

and started talking about what a great player he is and how good he is with the organization and how he's a two-way guy and so helpful, etc., etc., etc. Let's never lose sight of the fact that Vlad Tarasenko was not signed by Steve Staios. That was a pure Dorian signing for the Ottawa Senators. It was almost as if, I'm not sure if you got the same feeling, Elliot, he went into this mode of, I'm shining up a player here for trade deadline. This is me

talking publicly about how great Vlad Tarasenko is with the hopes that someone will bite a trade deadline on him. Now he has a no trade. So I understand, but still, did you get that same feeling when he talked about Tarasenko? Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

But also, like I said, Stelos is an ex player. He's not going to publicly dump on players. No, he's not. The other thing. Unless you really make him mad.

Yes. And we've seen coaches do that. And just talked about the los angeles kings elliott um one final thing and i thought maybe this is just semantics here but i don't know my my ears perk up when i hear things like this and maybe you do as well he talked about how they're still evaluating the core and I don't know if I'm reading too much into this, but I kind of took that as we know who the core is. We just don't know how married we are to them. Did you hear that the same way? Yes. And I think that's a change from even as recently as last month. I think that's a change from even as recently as last month. I think a couple of things have happened. Number one, and it's the key,

Chikrin's up for a new deal after this year. And to me, that more than anything else is the reason his name has gotten out there, is that Shabbat is signed long-term. Sanderson is signed long-term. Chikrin is not signed long-term. Sanderson is signed long-term. Chikrin is not signed long-term. And I do believe that the Sanders are looking for an experienced defenseman. I think that's part of, like when he's talking about

I'm looking for a pro, I think he's looking for a pro on the blue line and not just someone who's there I'm a great guy like someone who can play I think that's one of his shopping lists and those can cost you but what it comes down to is if Chikrin prices himself out of Ottawa in a year from now either he's going to have to go or someone else is going to have to go. That's just the reality of the situation. So when he said, and also sometimes too, I do think obviously he's an ex-player and he wants to limit the noise around them,

but he doesn't want them to be entirely comfortable. And that's his way of saying, I would like them all to be here, but if they don't play like we should all be here, then we'll make changes. It's that simple. So it's the cap and player performance. That was a really interesting press conference.

I am very intrigued by Steve Steyos. I really am. Okay, so that is Ottawa. Anything else before we get on to what we all believe is a really juicy story here with a lot of tentacles? Anything else before we get to Ryan Smith in Utah? Well, we should mention the return of Miro Haskinen in Dallas and a Thomas Harley breakout night. The overtime game winner and 23 minutes just under played. Dallas is obviously a very different team with Haskinen in the lineup and I actually

think one of the biggest races in the NHL this year is going to be first place in the Central Division. Now right now yes Winnipeg has the top points percentage at 7.0-7. It's going to be those three teams, 1, 2, or 3. Nashville and St. Louis, they're not catching those three teams. No. But you've got Winnipeg at 7-0-7 and Colorado and Dallas just behind them. But Winnipeg has the one team with games in hand.

You do not want to finish second or third in that division. You want to finish first in that division, and we're still waiting for injury news on Josh Morrissey, who got hurt the other night in Toronto. So that's one thing that stood out to me. We should mention Oliver Shillington's return in Calgary. He came back, played his first game. They put him in the starting lineup.

Great ovation. So good. From the Calgary fans. The only thing I didn't like about that game, bad injury for A.J. Greer, who's played really well for them. He went into the boards and had one of those um you know moise alu style injuries just yeah not good gross and painful so you hope he's okay um and you know the other thing we should mention was a weird situation two pucks tonight fired into the bench accidentally injuring people Travis Green had to coach the

third period for New Jersey because Lindy Roth was hit by a puck and was taken out and then Cole Sillinger shot hits Adam Boakvist and Boakvist has to leave the game. Just strange coincidence on a really tough night for the Devils. Vanacek got knocked out early. You know, you're missing Hughes and you're missing Hamilton. That's a lot. There's not a lot of teams that can overcome that. You know, I'll tell you, I'm watching this game in goal for New Jersey. It's another rough night for them in that.

I just checked out Akira Schmidt. Jeff, at the end of the year, there's going to be a big essay to get done on goaltenders because Akira Schmidt last year, he beats the Rangers in the first round and he looks like a real stud. And, you know, he's really struggling this year. His AHL numbers are not very good. This has been one of the strangest seasons ever. It's like goalies are Superman and there's all sorts of kryptonite around.

And some of it's the green kryptonite that temporarily takes away your powers and you eventually recover and some of it you're like is this the gold kryptonite where you just never recover you never get your powers back and um it's it's really like samsonov looks like he's never gonna play again and all of a sudden He's won two games in a row and the fans are giving him an ovation It's it's just been a wild year in that New Jersey's really going like like I'll really say it again I think that the Devils make a short-term play in goal Maybe you think you have to do it for ticket sales or whatever but i'm

i'm going long term if i'm them like you can like if i if i'm going for a goalie i'm going for someone who's got some term i had a really interesting text conversation with someone this morning about goaltenders. And this person brought up an incredible point to me. And this is, I believe, so true. One of the most important things for a team right now, given this nature of a lot of goaltenders are hot one year, cold another year, the unpredictability of them, et cetera. And this person that I was texting with brought up an incredible point. This is someone who's in the NHL orbits, let's just say, said to me, one of the great things a team can have that you guys never talk about is having a goalie coach who has the ability to recognize in a goaltender that this is someone

that we know we can improve, that they can recognize the areas where improvement is needed and know that they can get in it and know that they have the ability to get to that next level. He said, if you don't have someone that can do that in your organization, you're going to be forever at the whims of, I guess what we've always called goaltender voodoo and wondered like, okay, is it going to be the good year for this guy or the bad year for this guy? Again, it was just one conversation, but I've kind of been thinking about it all day. Let me swing back

to another thing you said a couple of seconds ago with the dallas stars you know who looks really good you know who looks really good playing with jason robertson and rupe hens wyatt johnson looks so good on that line elliot he's first he stole paski's house, now he's stealing his line mates. I know. It's so true. It's so true. Okay, let's get to it. And we should also shout out

the Carolina Hurricanes for their mom's storm surge post-game. I did love, by the way, even before that, the other day uh seeing brady shea's mom read out the starting lineup that was a great touch i love it i'm a sucker for i'm a sucker for all that stuff okay now before we get to expansion there's one last thing so in our last

a lot of last things geez okay and one of the questions we asked was about what happens if there's a draft snafu okay yes so i had a couple of notes about this i had one uh person uh say to me here's the way it goes because you didn't explain it entirely correctly which is kind of my way of doing things you submit the pick electronically, and they call you to confirm the player they received. So there is actually an opportunity to fix it if you submit the wrong name. It's after that that they tell you to go ahead, and that's why sometimes the clock can go below zero because you can put the pick in with 10 seconds left and have 45 seconds go by before they call you and then signal the stage so it's done. Okay? Now, that does not eradicate human error.

Now, you know Andy Chiodo, right? Goaltender. So someone said to me, there's only one player who's been drafted three times, and it's Andy Chiodo. And do you know why he was drafted three times, Jeff? Why was Andy Chiodo drafted three times? Why was Andy Chiodo? Why was Kyoto drafted three times? Why was Andy?

Why was he, why was he drafted three times? I don't know. Well, so officially he was only drafted twice. In 2001 NHL draft, he was taken 166th by the Islanders. And in the 2003 draft,

he was taken 199th overall by the Pittsburgh Penguins. However, earlier in that draft, the Islanders draft in 01 where he got taken there, he was in the crowd and the Atlanta Thrashers were at their table and they were going to take a pick and they'd entered it. They had submitted it and it had been accepted. And you know how it works in those rounds. You're told, go ahead from your table and you blurt it out. And they say, okay, next pick. And they were talking about Kyoto because he was on their list,

but he wasn't the pick. But when the mic was open and they were told to go, they were talking about Kyoto. So Andy Kyoto's name went over the loudspeakers. That's so good. And everybody thought that was the pick. Now, Scott Krugshank wrote a story in The Athletic. I went back and i referenced

and i went to look for it someone actually someone sent it to me and you know basically kyoto had to go down and be told i'm sorry we made a mistake because they'd entered the other player's name that officially was their pick and so uh to Scott's story they tried to the thrashers tried to take another trade made it make a trade to get another pick to take him they wanted to do right by him but the Islanders stepped up and got him and Dan Marr who scouted for the thrashers then and now does central scouting in the NHL to to his credit, he owned it. He owned it to Kyoto.

He owned it to Kyoto's family, the agent. He did interviews about it. He said, look, it was my mistake. I didn't mean to do it. He owned it, which I always think is the real true thing to do, especially in a hard day. So that is, and by the way, the scout who sent me this said, tell Jeff, I'm very disappointed he didn't know this. Anonymous scout, take a number.

I mean, seriously, like go stand in that line over there. It's pretty long. Good for Dan Mara though. You know, the old saying that I always like to talk about on this podcast and elsewhere, when you mess up, fess up and dress up good for Denmark now Ryan Smith and Utah going back to last year on this podcast when we spoke to Ryan Smith that was the first sort of popping up onto the radar for a lot of people. For this gentleman who owns the Utah Jazz of the NBA.

And this week he has officially asked the NHL to open up the expansion process. That was met with a favorable response from the NHL and saying things like, we look forward to continuing the discussion. And there was a lot of complimentary things said about the Smith group, leading everyone to believe that this is maybe just a formality now at this point, that somewhere down the road, maybe sooner than later, Utah will have an NHL team forcing us to rename this podcast and maybe your blog as well. What did you make of the Ryan Smith news this week?

God help us, don't go to 36. Well, first of all, by the way, I do think if and when, because I do think Utah is going to get a team, it's not going to be the Salt Lake City whatever's. No, it'll be the state. It'll be the Utah team, yes, because they do it with the basketball team

and they're going to do it with the hockey team too because there's a question about whether the arena, which they're supposed to get for the 2034 Olympics, I don't know if it's going to be downtown or it's going to be, I don't know what's the proper word to say the outskirts or the suburbs. But it's, so it's going to be a Utah team, not a Salt Lake City team. You know, my feeling on this is, this is the NHL saying,

if you're interested in a team, come get us. interested in a team, come get us. Come tell us because we're like Ryan Smith doesn't do this without the NHL's approval. There's no way you have to go from the Mark Chipman book, which is be quiet until we tell you not to be quiet. And that's what Mark Chipman did. So nothing happens without the NHL's approval. So this is a marker if you're interested in expansion team in the NHL start reaching out to us because we at least we're getting ready for it, we're planning for it, we want to know what the interest is and we want it out there that we want to hear submissions of interest. So that's number one. The other thing here too is, and the reason I think that this is real, is that we're three

years into a seven year deal in the States. Our deal has two years left. And one of the things that people look at is how many US markets are there well in the NFL there's 32 in in Major League Baseball there's what 29 in the NBA there's 31 or whatever it is and they're going to expand probably to Vegas and Seattle and in the NHL there's 25 and I think they see there is room in the United States for more teams. As much as that makes a lot of you cringe, and I get it, they see it as there are still more spaces here.

And I believe this. If the Coyotes leave Arizona, they will sort out their arena situation and they will go back there. Like Arizona, if the Coyotes leave, will not be a forsaken market by the NHL. They will go back there. So that's one thing. It's expansion. We want to know who's out there, and they're four years away from a new US TV deal.

Follow the money. Now, the other thing is, at the last Board of Governors meeting in December, thing is at the last Board of Governors meeting in December we heard that the Commissioner or the Deputy Commissioner whether it was Bettman or Daley or whoever it was had made it clear to the board that they wanted to know by the end of January or else basically. Now I will concede that when it comes to the Arizona Coyotes and their history, this target has moved around. It has not, when you think there's a deadline, there's another deadline. But the reason that I think that there's, and I've been using it too, the reason that we're talking about that time

is that's what was said at the Board of Governors meeting. And when I asked around if that was accurate, it was not disputed to me. So clearly something was put on the table indicating that. And I know that when the Jets got their team back in 2011, the move didn't happen until June or May or June or whenever it was. It doesn't mean the league wasn't planning it beforehand. it was it doesn't mean the league wasn't planning it beforehand you have to put things in motion to get it done so then here becomes the question or one of the questions then

uh this ryan smith appeal to the nhl um i'm imagining obviously, it puts Utah in motion. As you mentioned, it's one of those like, okay, let's see what you're holding. Show us your cards here. I would imagine that this, if I'm going to pick another market here, puts Atlanta in motion for what many believe to be an inevitability. Well, I just think that all of these options are going to be out there, right? I think that's what they're kind of looking at. Like, okay, is it going to be Salt Lake, sorry, Utah? Or is it going to be another market?

And if Atlanta's capable, they could be in the mix too. I mean, we'll see. But what this was to me is that it's them saying, we want to know who's out there and who's legit. Okay. On that, we'll finish up this block. Want to let you know as well, coming up after the Montana's Thought Line, you will hear from Rick Bonas, the head coach of the Winnipeg Jets.

But quick break, back with your questions and our goofy answers. Don't go anywhere. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. with prime welcome back to the program welcome back to the podcast all week long we we build towards one very specific moment where elliot warms up his vocal cords for his grand moment here on the podcast here we go welcome once again once again to the Montana's Thought Line, Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's Home for Barbecue. Try the ribs and Dave Maloney will this weekend.

Oh, will he? Do you have a story behind that one? What's the story? Well, remember the last time he told us that the Rangers were in Toronto so he wanted to go to a Montana's but there just wasn't one close enough to downtown. Well,

the, the great people at Montana's heard this and the Rangers play tonight. And then they go to Ottawa on Saturday and they will have some ribs ready for him and the Rangers broadcasting. They are so good. You must count your fingers afterwards. I understand. 32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca is the email.

1-833-311-3232. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. 1-833-311-3232. This is a fun one. Marcel from Edmonton. Bless you. I love this question. Elliot, Saturday's surprise firing of Lane Lambert and hiring of patrick wog got me thinking

are there any restrictions on who nhl teams can hire to coach their team only coaching association members maybe or would it be possible for a team to get crazy and decide to randomly hire quote marcel from edmonton off the streets to coach them? Absolutely, they could do that. No, you don't have to be a member of the coaching association to coach an NHL team. If someone wanted to hire Marcel from Edmonton, they could hire Marcel from Edmonton. Good luck, Marcel. We'll start putting you on the list of potential candidates for various coaching agencies,

Marcel from Edmontmonton if that is indeed your real name okay here i love questions like this brent from hudson hey guys enjoy the pod every week just wondering who would get credit for a goal if the defensive centerman drew the puck directly back into his own net with the opposing centerman not having touched the puck during the face-off. Elliot? I found an example of this. October 2011, Boston and Montreal. There is a face-off, and you can find it online, where Thomas Placanitz is taking the draw against Patrice Bergeron, and Placanitz wins the faceoff and it goes right through Carey Price's legs. It's the first goal of the game. Boston takes a one to nothing lead. Now this story, young Jeffrey, does have a good ending. Placanitz scored later, this time on the Boston net, to give the Canadians a 2-1 victory.

But the goal was credited to Bergeron, who took the draw against them. Yes. So you know what the interesting thing about that is? And yes, that is the answer. Even if the player doesn't touch the puck, it's the opposing center who gets credit for the goal. I mean, my thought is, why don't you give the goal to the linesman, for example? Hey, liney, you got your first career NHL goal. You touched the puck before the other centerman did.

No, Elliot's right. The opposing centerman does get credit for the goal. But you know what the interesting point about that is? What's that? They take the loss on the draw. You lose the draw and score a goal. You get credit for a goal, but you also get credit for a face-off loss. I'll take the L.

I'll take the goal over the L. I can deal with that. I think most people would as well. Okay, Carson from Rock Springs. Hey, Wyoming, check you out. Jeff and Elliot, Carson here, a Sharks fan in Wyoming. I was watching the Sharks-Kings shootout on Monday, and upon watching the replay

of Fabian Zetterlund's goal that ended the game, I found myself questioning whether or not the goal should have counted. It looked to me like Zetterlund's goal that ended the game, I found myself questioning whether or not the goal should have counted. It looked to me like Zetterlund pulled the puck back a fair amount on his stick handle right before snapping it past Dave Riddick. Everything I've seen and heard says that the puck must always be moving towards the goal line in a shootout attempt. Are there any exceptions to this such as quote being in the middle of a stick handling move or something of the sort? There was no second look by the officials or the Kings.

I would imagine they would know what they're doing. And this was a legal move. But the play intrigued me nonetheless. And I wanted to get your thoughts. Keep up the good work. Thanks for the podcast. Cheers. Carson in Wyoming, Elliot.

Well, first of all, Carson, I would challenge you on one aspect of your question. Never assume that anybody knows what they're doing because, quite frankly, most of us don't. Basically, there was a concession made a few years ago that as long as you're headed towards the net, they're going to let almost anything go on a shootout. Spinarama. Because, yeah, that was the thing that the spinorama came up a few years ago and they had a big argument at a gm meeting i don't know how big an argument was but it was at least a conversation at gm meeting saying well it's a spinorama the puck's going backwards why are we allowing this? And basically the answer was, look, it's entertainment.

It's a move to try to score. We're not going to stand in the way of this. Like, I think that I think the person actually would have to stop and skate back towards center ice before they didn't count this stuff. Yeah. So always assume as long as they're making a move towards the net to try to score, it's going to count. I wonder if it was Sam Gagne with the spinorama that started all of this. He did it. And I think Linus Omar was another one.

He had a spinorama move. Great question. Here's another fun one. Brett from Michigan. Hey, Jeff, Elliot, and Dom. Do GMs, I love this. Do GMs get angry at other GMs who claim their players off waivers? If I waived one of my players and another GM scooped them up, I'd be ticked off.

That's my guy to throw away, not yours to take. I wonder if there's any unwritten rules related to this or any animosity built up in the past between GMs. Number one in our hearts, keep up the great work, guys. I think Brett is thinking about these things like they're offer sheets, but it's a funny and good question. Generally, no, there's no problem with that. I think teams know if they put someone on waivers,

there's a risk. So, I mean, look, it doesn't take a lot for a general manager to get mad at something so I'm sure there have been occasions where a GM was annoyed or upset because they couldn't make a trade or something like that but if you put a player on waivers that's the risk how many times you think there are conversations certainly there are conversations about if I put player x on waivers will you claim him how many times you think there are conversations about, you know, maybe Detroit is worried about Philadelphia or the Kings are worried about Arizona. And there are conversations about if I put this player on waivers, will you

not claim him? I do. I think those conversations happen periodically. I know that there are teams who put guys on waivers and they sit there and say, this guy might claim them. I know that there are teams who put guys on waivers and they sit there and say, this guy might claim them. You know, a team is interested and you'll try to trade the person. And sometimes that GM might say, you know what? I can get this player for free. Why should I have to give you a lottery ticket, like a late round draft pick if I know I can get the player for free. Now, on the other hand, I have seen situations where a player was put on waivers, went unclaimed, but then got traded to a team the next day. I can't remember one off the top of my head, but I remember it had it. I remember I called

the GM and I said, why don't you just take the player for free? And he said, look at our contract situation. I had no room to add without subtracting. Or he could say, look, for team budget, I couldn't add without subtracting a salary. So all of that can play a part of it. Like I do think a lot of times when a GM puts someone on waivers, they know if a player is going to get claimed or not, or have a pretty good idea. We've also seen a player get placed on waivers clear and then get placed on waivers again the next day and not clear Anaheim Columbus looking your direction. Do you remember that one?

Yeah, that was the famous Todd Marchand, a Sergey Fedorov deal. That was indeed. We love telling that story. Brian Burke and Doug McLean, love you guys. Great questions from everybody this week. Again, the thought line number is 1-833-311-3232. That is the thought line.

32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. The way to get in by email. Our interview with Rick Bonas, head coach to the podcast. Earlier this week, just after the loss against the Boston Bruins and just a day before the loss, overtime style against the Toronto Maple Leafs, Elliot and I sat down with the head coach of the Winnipeg Jets, Rick Bonus. Rick's one of our favorite guests. That's not exactly a secret.

Long-standing coach in the NHL, either as a head coach or an assistant coach. Very thoughtful, always gives wonderful answers. And as we told him as we sat down before we did this interview, Rick, when you're that good the first time around, we ask you back. So here's our second go around with Rick Bonas, head coach of the Winnipeg Jets. First of all, Rick, thanks so much for joining us again. I'm sure you're pretty sick of talking to me and Elliot, but when you're a great interview, you keep getting the invite again. You've been one of the big surprise stories, your team, the Winnipeg Jets, one of the big surprise stories of the NHL so far this season.

Has the success surprised even you? Or did you think, yeah, we'd be up around the top of the NHL at this point in January? Well, I'm glad you clarified it was the team that's a surprise and not me. I'm glad you made that very clear. Not really. I think if you go back to last year, listen, we had to make a lot of changes to the team in a number of ways, but the biggest way was on the ice, the way we were playing.

We had to change. We wanted to change the systems. We wanted to become more aggressive. And for a good spell of last year, we were doing that. As the season wore on and when players get tired or the heat of the moment in the game they resort back to their what they've done for a long time so it there were times last year that we were going back to the way they were playing two years ago and they weren't going back to the

way we started to play the season this year uh it's it's a lot easier for the for us to identify and the players to identify that okay we're off our game a little bit. Go back to the way we know how to play, not the way we used to play a couple of years ago. So I knew we had a good team list and we've got world-class goaltenders. So it all starts with that. Hellebuck and LB has stepped in this year. Laurent Brassat has done a fantastic job.

And the players have bought in a lot more this year in terms of not so much of it, but consistency of how we want to play. And I think that's what led to the success. It's more that the players have completely bought in. They understand how we want to play. And you're seeing a much more consistent effort. There's been very few games.

We had one last night in Boston where we walked away and said, well, we weren't very good for a couple of periods. There's been very, very few of those games after the number of games that we played. You know, I have a couple of follows there, but just talking about the Boston game, there was one thing that happened at the end of the game that I really loved.

To me, it said a lot about your team. So there's just a couple minutes left. Your net is empty. You're down 3-1. I mean, you know you're probably going to lose, barring a miracle. But you guys made it really hard for Boston to score that empty netter. Like they had about three chances before they finally scored, and all three of them, you guys chased them down

and prevented them from scoring it. And I watched that and I said, this is a team that knows they aren't going to win tonight, but whether it's this record or their overall pride of play, they're saying we're going down until the bitter end. And just watching, that said to me a lot about who the Jets are this year. Yeah, the first two periods were probably two of the worst we've played all year. Our team is very good.

We're near the tops of the leagues in terms of breakouts. And when you break the puck out, you're able to play a lot faster and you're able to play your game a lot better. We struggled for the first couple of periods getting the puck out of our zone, and it wasn't so much Boston as much us. We had control of the puck, and we kept turning it over. In the third period, we started to go, and we started to play faster, and we started to put pressure on them.

So even at the end of the game, the guys were still trying to win that game. I know we were down two at that point, but they take a lot of pride. They take pride in our goals against without a doubt. That effort is what you're talking about. But they also, in their minds, they're still in that game, even though we're down three, we just need one, then we can get a quick one. So again, it goes back to the buy-in from the players and the consistency of the players. But, again, that effort is there, especially at the end of the game. And I did notice that as well. They were doing everything they could so that Sebastian would not get that fourth goal.

Marchand fought for that one. Oh, he did. He fought for that empty net. You know that's coming. He's on the ice and they see an empty net, look out, we're going to another level here. So get ready for it. The other thing too is there's another team that's taken a big leap this year and that's Vancouver.

And they talk a lot about what you just said there. It's that when things are going badly, we're reverting to what we're supposed to do. So like to me, sometimes as an outsider, I think I, these are the kinds of things that I kind of look at my own world. If I know I'm doing something improperly, I'm like, how do I fix it and how do I commit to that? Both the Canucks and the Jets have talked about how this year it's clicked in to, there's a way we have to do things when things go wrong and we're committed to that so i guess my dumb question is why does that take so long to happen or why doesn't that happen more

why does it suddenly click into a team well in terms of our team i can't speak for the connects but they played a certain way for five or six years so those systems become ingrained in you, and that's how you play. And your instincts take over and say, that's how we're going to play. So when we come in and we want to play more aggressive style all over the ice, it's not always going to go your way. So now you fall back on what we used to be able to do, and it contradicts the way we wanted to play. So this year, because we've harped on it all of last year,

and the one thing we keep saying is we know what we look like. We know what we're supposed to look like when we're playing well. We know what that looks like. We know who we are. So last year, there was times it looked a little confused. This year, it's easier to identify, okay, this is not what we look like. This is not what we're supposed to do. The players see it.

We see it. And when we talk about it, they understand it a lot clearer. It's in their minds now. They know how we look like this is not what we're supposed to do the players see it we see it and when we talk about it they they understand it a lot clearer it's in their minds now they know how we look how we're supposed to look when we're playing well as opposed to okay well we used to do this that you get you got to get that out of that and mentally it's not the physical side of the game it's the mental side of the game you're just you go back to your natural habits which made you come feel comfortable when the game is heated up and things aren't going well but now those instincts fall back into the way we want to play okay we're not aggressive enough here let's get going some teams is more okay we got to

sit back a little bit more and but our team is we're more we're better when we're playing a much more aggressive style all over the ice so they see it when we're sitting back or we're not breaking the puck out or we're not we're not putting a lot of pressure on them so ice. So they see it when we're sitting back or we're not breaking the puck out or we're not putting a lot of pressure on them. So they can see it now. They know what we look like when we're playing well. Do you need results to make that work? Like if this team was 25th, would that be happening?

But what results are you talking about? The way you play the game or the end result, the wins? That's a good – I mean, you can answer that question better than I can. Because we take care of the process and the end result will take care of itself. We don't base everything on the win. The wins will come if we do all these things well.

If we play our Winnipeg Jet Hockey, we know the wins will come. But the end of the, we're not always saying, we gotta win, we gotta win, we gotta win. We say, we gotta do this, we gotta do this, we gotta do this. And that is a daily process. We take over practices and video. We don't talk about our place in the standings. We've never talked about that streak. The players,

we have never brought it up. We've never said we're in first, second, third, fourth. We've never brought that up. What we talk about every day is the process and what a Winnipeg Jet game looks like, what a Winnipeg Jet player looks like fitting into that system. You know, you don't have success like that unless there is trust. And one of the things that I took away from our last conversation, you were talking about Victor Hedman and the way to unlock Victor Hedman, who was, you know, deeply skeptical of pretty much everybody around him. And you told Elliot and I that one of the things you did is you talked to him about everything other than hockey. You would go for walks and not talk about hockey. Every day it's a conversation not about hockey,

and it built up a trust between the two of you in Tampa. When you took over in Winnipeg, and maybe at the beginning of this season too, who was it important for you to get that buy-in from, and how did you do it? Like, were there a couple of players that said, I need these guys or this guy to be on the same level here with me? I talked to all the players last year when I first got the job.

But yeah, there's the key guys you have to go to. It started with me with Connor Hellebuck. You got, okay, you're the goalie. What are you seeing in front of you? What do we need to change to make your life a lot easier? Then you have to go to the stars. And it wasrissey and mark schleifle and kyle connor and you got to go to those guys but you also have to include everyone else everyone has to feel they're part of it like their their roles are all different but their status has to be the same

in terms of what their importance to the team regardless if it's 10 minutes or 20 minutes so one of the things which we try to do is do that, make sure we're getting everyone's input, everyone feels they have a voice and that we are listening to them. But obviously it's the key guys you've got to get to buy in. If they don't buy in, the rest of the guys aren't buying in. But this year you're watching, our players are seeing Kyle Conner back check hard, Mark Schlafe back check hard, taking hits to make plays.

So last year for me, it started with the key guys, but it's also touching base with every one of them to get their opinion so that they all feel that they're part of the process, part of the solution moving forward. But again, they all have to feel that their role on the team is important. Minutes are different. Roles are different. Status has to be the same.

What was the thing that was the most impactful that any of them told you? I would go back to Connor Hellebuck, all the great A's that they were given up in front of him. You know, he had a heavy workload, not just in terms of games and minutes but the shot value volume and the quality of the shot so we started looking at that but what I had done before even speaking to them was watch a couple of their games and and look at their analytics and say and that just jumped right out it's okay we got to cut down on these slot chances against. We've got to cut down on these rush chances against.

Yes, this team can score, but you're not going to win. You're not going to win the playoffs going 5-4, 6-5. It's not. So you've got to tighten it up. But it was Maura Hellebuck right off the bat that said, you know, we're giving up a lot of chances right in front of me, and the rebounds and chances off the rush, we'd like to clear that up. So what he said and what I saw in the video kind of matched up with each other.

Talking to Josh Morrissey, the D weren't involved in the rush enough. They weren't involved enough. So, again, you watch the video. Okay, they played it. Look, they had great success. So I'm not knocking it. It's different ways to watch the video. Okay, they played it. Look, they had great success. So I'm not knocking it. It's just different ways to play the game. So, okay, we're going to get you more involved.

Because I remember coaching against Mo and saying, wow, this kid's an elite skater. He's an elite puck here. We've got to watch him when he's on the ice. And I wanted to turn him loose. And so that means you've got to let all the D go. You can't say, well, Mo's going. You're not.

So now you've got to get all the D to buy into can't say, well, Mo's going. You're not. So now you've got to get all the D to buy into that. But that part of the game started with Josh Morrissey. So Hellebach himself, when did you know that he was staying? When he signed the contract. No, but you had to have a point where you realized, because Shifley, I can only speak for myself, Shifley was out of the blue, but there was a sense later in the summer

that Hellebuck's mind had changed and that he was going to stay. I think he loved the trade we made with LA. Okay, we have depth now. Talking to Connor at the end of the year, it was, I want to win the Stanley Cup. It wasn't, he never, we had a good conversation. It was never, I want to get this eight years. I want to

get this amount of money. That never, ever came up. All he kept repeating, I want to win the Stanley Cup. I don't care about the Vezina. I don't care about the money. I want to win a Stanley Cup. So I think when Chevy made that trade with LA and he saw the good pieces that we were bringing in, he said, okay, this team's committed to winning. And I think that changed his mind up as well. And he said, okay, this team's committed to winning. And I think that changed his mind up as well. Velarde, one of the pieces coming back. Thoughts of him before he became a Jet and thoughts of him as a Jet now.

Didn't know him all that well, honestly. He was hurt a lot for a couple years. And I think there was a couple games we played him, he didn't play. So I really didn't know a lot about him. I hear good things about him, right? So you got to see it on the ice in training camp. And okay, he had been hurt. So it took a little while to get him going in training camp.

Then we said, wow, this guy is unreal around the net. He does some great things on the boards. Then he gets hurt. So we still think there's more from Gabe. We got to try to keep him healthy. The one disappointing part of our season for us and our power play is that we've never had the opportunity to run 10 games with Mark, Kyle Connor, and Gabe on the same power play.

One of them has been hurt all year. And that's really because we saw it during the preseason. We saw it earlier. Wow, there's some chemistry there in the power play. And then Kyle went down, and then Gabe went down. So we were anxious to get those three back healthy, get them playing together as a line, and see what they can do in the power play

because clearly our power play needs a lot of work. But in fairness, we've never had those three guys for a long period of time on the power play. So we're anxious to see what that looks like because Gabe, to answer your question again, very good on the power play, very good around the net. He's got great hands for a big man. And he hangs on to pucks and he makes plays and he takes pucks to the net.

So we really missed his presence. He showed us what he can do when he's healthy. And now the challenge is to keep him healthy and also to keep Mark and Casey healthy and give them a chance to run and get the chemistry because they still haven't played enough together over the years, and here we are this far into the season, they still haven't played a lot of time together as a threesome. Go ahead, bud.

You're both pointing at each other. I was going to jump in and then defer to Elliot. So you're not going to have this kind of success if there are selfish plays and selfish hockey players. I mean, you've made that clear with all of your stops. The old saying, you know, the offside is the most selfish play in the NHL. I think slow line changes are also a pretty selfish thing too.

Which is on turnovers, hanging out in the parks. Oh, we can keep going. That's what I'm asking. Keep going. What do you consider, is it the offside? What do you consider the laziest, most selfish thing a player can do on the ice? Long shifts.

Just staying out there, hoping for one more chance to go for a rush because that's when the bad line changes that's when the bad you're submitting too much time in your d zone that's when the turnover started when players start taking extra long shifts to go i'm gonna we may have a chance to score here that leads to so many problems it also disrupts the line flow and the chemistry of your next lines because somebody might be out there for a minute and the next two guys are sitting there waiting to go and now their line meets out there he's coming off now we're going out with someone new so for me i always put

a lot of focus on those the line shifts and making sure that they're not extended because even last night in boston we had two shifts in our zone that were probably a minute and a half. And we just didn't get the puck out. So now we're spending time in our zone. But we had two different guys from two different lines out there. Well, it screws up the rotation. And someone's missing ice time while they're out there that long. So for me, I always kind of focus on the length of the shifts. And if I see a guy trying to go, oh, I'm a little tired, but we might get a chance here.

I'm going. That stuff drives me nuts. I'm going to follow up with a question that I know is going to drive Elliot crazy but I'm I'm so fascinated with the minutiae of this and Scotty Bowman used to do this with the Habs I don't know if you do it with Winnipeg or you've done it with any of your other stops do you practice line changes yes we warm up line changes so that's a it's a we try to warm up every practice where there's something that's actually happening in the game so we make a game out of it and you're not allowed to change until the puck is in deep and then you walk through the how you want to change but yeah we will have a we'll have a warm-up game a pre-game practice or a pre-practice warm-up just on just on line

changes so yeah we do that's actually i I love that. That's not as bad as some of the other questions you've asked over the years. I'll say that much. I wanted to ask a little bit more kind of about that kind of a thing. And what I was going to ask you was, I want you to name a player you played with

and a player you coached who was the worst either for the long shifts or the bad line changes? That's a tough question. I haven't played in a long time. I know you have the mind of a coach. There's someone you know. You're like, this guy.

Hang on. Some players were allowed to have a two-minute shift. Like Phil Asparito could play for three minutes. He was scoring 76 goals. But you had to have guys like that. Well, the game has changed so much now. It's so much faster. That the guys who do stay out there a little bit long,

it clearly shows. I'm not going to name names. I don't want to do that. I'm not going to get into that. What does the name rhyme with? I'd have to think, honestly. I'd have to think because I'm harping on them all the time. There had to be someone in Tampa or Dallas that was like a –

or all those years you coached because you've coached a long time who had to be the worst line changer you ever dealt with. There's been a couple. We're not going to call them out here. What team are we talking about here so I can go through all of these? Right-hand shot, left-hand shot. No, but the other issue on that is their teammates see it, right? And that's, you know, we get frustrated.

Their teammates get frustrated with them as well. And we did have an incident last year on our bench between periods, or not on the bench, but on our team in between periods that somebody went after someone else with the long shift because he's missing minutes and he's missing time with his line mates. So that was addressed with the players because after I had addressed it on the bench, it was also followed up in the locker room, which is good

because now your players are taking ownership of how you want to play. Actually, I'm curious about that. Because players, like, we get mad at each other. Like, broadcasters get mad at each other like broadcasters get mad at each other over airtime sometimes so like

is his questions more intelligent than yours oh he doesn't know when to wrap up a question everything but so

when do you get involved like when when players are having a disagreement about something when do coaches get involved

we would let it settle down and then pull them both aside and talk pull them both aside and talk to them, which I did after the game. This is why I went to Epson. First of all, I responded. And then the player that was sitting on the bench

waiting to get out there responded. And then you got to let the emotions calm down a little bit. And then I dealt with it right after the game because you don't let those things dwell. And I brought them both, not sit together, but one-on-one and say, this is what happened. I'll take care of it. This is what happened. We'll take care of it. This is what happened.

We'll fix this. So, yeah, yeah. Because I addressed it first on the bench, and the player followed up on it, and so I just had to clean it up. Let me ask, on a similar vein then, who was the best player at controlling the room or being able to make other players accountable

from all your stops? Ray. Ray Bork. He was unreal. He really was. In Boston, I only had him for the one year, but it was unreal how he could, he would take over the control of the game and he didn't say too much on the bench or anything, but in the locker room, he had his, he'd walk in and there was a presence about Ray and

he would just settle things right down and got everything straightened out. In Vancouver, we had Kevin and we had Kes and we had the twins. We had great leadership in there, and they would settle things down. If they weren't fighting with each other. Oh, yeah. Once you separate them, they're great. Yeah, but I've been fortunate with that part of the game, that Stamkos and Victor and Cooch and those guys, the thing they all have in common, they're great competitors and they want to win.

And if they say things that are going on that is affecting their team's ability to win, they're not afraid to speak up. And in whatever tone they wanted, the Twins never got excited. They would just settle things down. There were many times where teams would take a run at the Twins and try to physically intimidate them. And they'd come in, don't worry about it, we'll deal with it. And it was unreal. On the bench, don't worry about it, we'll deal with it.

And they did. They just kept playing. You couldn't intimidate them. Other guys would come in and did a little more vocal. Different guys would be a little more vocal to get things going. But, yeah, Ray was exceptional. Was there ever, I'm curious, without naming the player, obviously,

but was there ever a time you had to discipline a player privately very seriously? And how often does something like that happen? Oh, that happens. Yeah, oh yeah. Whether it's a shift, lanes, undisciplined penalties, practice habits, oh yeah, you've got to challenge them. But it all starts with your ability to build that trust that we were talking about earlier.

You've got to build that first so that when you go on to address those issues, the player still knows you have his best interest at heart and the team's best interest at heart. So it goes back to building the trust with communication, open communication with all your players so that when you do sit in those situations and you have to address them, you can't let them grow. Like little problems can become big problems in a hurry if you don't address it right away. So I think it goes back to that.

But you see something, you've got to address it right away. You don't like it. And again, you're having conversations with these guys even though they trust you and everything. They don't like to hear some of the things you're telling them, but you can't be afraid of those conversations either. And you got to look them in the eye. You can't be, you know, looking up in the ceiling, look at the floor.

You got to look in the eye. This is what I don't like. This is what we got to work together to clean up and you move on. Well, you're really not going to like this question, but you have kids now that could be your grandchildren. Yeah, I know. So I'm wondering. I know.

I know. It doesn't seem that long ago when I said to Judy, Judy, you know we're old enough to be these guys' parents. Now the other one said, you know we're old enough to be their grandparents now. So yeah, I guess, where are we going with this? Well, so the thing is, you've got Perfetti, who's a really talented guy, and his minutes were down early in the year.

And as a viewer, I see what you're doing. I see what you're doing. I understand. But this generation, they're different. And so has it been harder? Can you be more blunt with a Shifley who's a little bit older or a Wheeler who was a lot older as opposed to a Perfetti? Do you have to deliver your message differently? Yes. You're right on with that absolutely and i talked to cole a lot um yeah so yeah we've got a good rapport and when he doesn't play enough i'm the first guy to grab and call i'm trying to get you more ice time but this is what happened there was penalties

and uh you know you lose your shifts here because your line mates are killing you got to understand whether there's minutes or down it's got nothing to do with your play. And sometimes that happens, right? He's losing nice time because we'll send out the first power play. Early in the year, he was on the second unit. And that's out there for a minute and a half. And he only gets 30 seconds. So when his minutes aren't where I think they should be, I'm the first one to go up and explain to him.

And he's great with it. He understands defensively, right, and the battles. He's got to understand how to manage the game a little bit better up here. So these are all growing pains that you go through with. But I make sure because it is cold. And those aren't harsh conversations. Those are like you and I are talking right now. Here's what's going on.

And he's a very intelligent kid, and he cares. you and I are talking right now. Here's what's going on. And he's a very intelligent kid and he cares. So, but yeah, they're a little more sensitive today than some of the older guys. There's no question, but you've got to be aware of that when you're dealing with them.

But that still doesn't, there's times where you got to let the passion, you got to let the emotion take over. And that's where I'm not very good. Well, you know what one coach said to me, this is one coach who got mad at me once and like he was swearing up and down on me on a phone call. And then when we all sorted out,

he called me like a few months later and he said, you know, like I was worried you were going to make a big deal about the fact that I was swearing at you and calling out your names. And I said, you know, that stuff doesn't really bother me. And he said, that's good because you can't really do that in a workplace environment anymore. So, like, I wonder about, like, the way you could talk to even Hedman 10, 15 years ago and the way you talk to, say, Perfetti now. You've got to be so much more careful about how you talk.

Yeah, yeah. It all depends on the individual. Yeah. So that's why you got to get to know them. Can he handle it, me being hard on him, right? Because I was really hard on Robo and Ruppe in Dallas their first year. I was hard on them, but they could take it, right? And so eventually I said, okay, I've been hard on you,

hard on what you play now. So I haven't had that issue in Winnipeg yet. But you got to know the personnel. You've got to know how far you can push them and tell you, okay, they've had enough. So now we've got to back off a little bit and just ease off a little bit and show them that you still trust them even though you're hard on them. Let me pick up on the Perfetti conversation. So how then, knowing that minutes are at a premium on this team,

it's a high-end team up around the top of the NHL, how do you get this young player to the next level, knowing that minutes are going to be hard for him? Well, you've got to understand our team as well, because when we were really rolling good, we had Scheife and Casey. There's your left winger. He's got to play 18, 20 minutes. And Lowry, Niedermeyer, and Niederreiter, and Apleby,

they were a dominant line. They got to get their minutes too. And you got to give your fourth line some minutes. So they're in the game. They're feeling part of it. So there's only so many minutes that you can give out. And if you're going to give him more minutes, you're taking minutes away from the top guys.

And we're a little bit ahead of them right now because of their experience and their roles on the team. Because we ran Adam's line against all the top lines. You've got to get Scheifele's line out there a lot. So there's only so many minutes, and sometimes he gets caught in that, Cole does. But he understands that now. He's starting to understand that. And, you know, late in the game,

sometimes we'll put Morgan Barron out on the left wing. And he's got to understand that Morgan has to feel part of this team as well. You get your power play time and you're getting with the top players. You've got to make the other guys feel part of what they're doing and the success we're having. So he's starting to understand all of that. He's a really good kid. He's a really good teammate.

He's starting to understand what it takes to be a good teammate. And sometimes you let the other guys go and you let them feel their importance. But again, you start taking minutes away from Kyle Conner, who's having a great year, and the Adam line was dominant for months. You can't start taking minutes away from them because they're playing so well and we're winning. If we weren't winning, there's a whole other discussion.

But when you're winning and those guys are making the difference in a lot of games, sometimes you just got to live with the fact you're missing a couple of minutes. It's not you're missing 10. You're missing a couple of shifts here and there. I'm going to ask you to answer this, not with your head, but with your heart. Let's see if we can do this.

When I say Minnesota Wild, what do you think? I think, yeah, I know. Yeah, that's a decent one. Not your head, but your heart. Come on, Rick. Yeah, okay. So, you know, when I saw that develop, my first thought is we're going into the playoffs,

and we do not want to lose Adam Lowry. So there was, 20 seconds ago, whatever was left in the game, and now Adam's fighting Ryan Reeves. So we're not going to talk about the significance of Reeves on their team. All I know is we're going into the playoffs now, because that was the game that clinched it for us, and Adam gets into a fight and breaks his hand or gets hurt, and now we're going into the playoffs without Adam Lowry.

So what upset me most about that is all of that, that we can't afford to lose Adam Lowry. I'm mad because there's a chance't afford to lose Adam Lowry I'm mad because there's a chance that we could lose Adam Lowry and Adam and I talked about that after the game right away like you know you get in those situations sometimes you get but you got to pull back but that's not Adam right that's not his personality somebody challenges him he's gonna he's gonna respond so it was I was more upset upset at the fear of losing Adam going into the playoffs, understanding how important he was to our team, penalty killing, physicality,

his presence in the room, presence on the ice. So, yeah, I got a little upset at that. So that's kind of carried over into this season with Hartman and Perfetti, and we spent a lot of time, all of us, talking about that. And if people didn't know that Winnipeg and Minnesota have a pretty heated rivalry, they do now. So when you think about Minnesota now, and there's another game that's on the horizon here

between these two teams. If you want to speak from your heart and sell some hockey tickets, go for it. But what do you think of Minnesota now? I mean, listen they players players take care of things on the ice coaches don't they take care of things on the ice and you got to stay out of their way do i wish that whole prophetic thing had to stay out of the media yeah i do that but the players will take care of those things on the ice and and we're a family winnipeg and

we're going to stick up for each other all the time but some of those things happen out there that players are trying to stick up for their other all the time. But some of those things happen out there that players are trying to stick up for their teammates on the other side as well. That's part of pro hockey, man. You've got to live with it. Do we like to keep those things away from you guys? Absolutely we do. But if we didn't, and that's fine, we'll deal with it.

We know it. I talked to Cole and I talked, well, just keep it out of the media. The players will take care of that stuff on the ice. And there's things that happen out there. And again, coaches have to stay out of those things. Let the players deal care of that stuff on the ice. And there's things that happen out there. And again, coaches have to stay out of those things. Let the players deal with it. That's their thing.

And that's what we do. Who do your players hate more? Minnesota, Toronto, or is there a third option? I would say Minnesota the most. We don't play Toronto enough. So, you know, we only play them twice a year. I know, but some of those games have gotten really rough. Yeah, because, you know, again, we understand the publicity the Leafs get.

We get it. We're in a smaller market. We get it. But we want to be heard of. We're a good team. Yes, you are. We're a good team. And we've been a good team for a long time.

So there's some pride in there that we want to be recognized as well. You mentioned, you talked a little bit about the Dubois trade last year, about how that changed for Hellebuck. Just like, there's a couple of things you said in the last few months that really stuck out with me. Obviously one was the end of the playoff series last year, but when, when Shifley signed this year, you talked about how everybody in this room wants to be here. And I just want to, like last summer from that comment at the end of Vegas to where you got on the season with Hello Buck and Shifley signing,

what happened behind the scenes to make this a happier place? Well, okay, that's fair. Doobie made it very clear that he wasn't going to sign a long term. So you start talking about that a lot. The players know he doesn't, you know, he wants out here at some point. So, and when that's dealt with the way Chevy dealt with it, and we're bringing in good pieces, it's, again, it goes back to Connor. Like, okay, we're committed to winning here.

Everyone that's here wants to be here. So to me, and then that's just again it's all about the buy-in right you can't you can't have one or two guys i want to get traded i want to be out of here and say okay we're all in so when there's one or two guys in the room that don't want to be there you've you've again like do we made it i'm not criticizing do he didn't want to be there didn't want to be that's his call he's he an athlete. He's got to take care of his career. So Pierre got what he wanted, and we got what we wanted. We got some good pieces, and we got guys that want to be in Winnipeg.

So Pierre-Luc, good for him. Got exactly what he wanted. He got a big contract, went to a big market, and that's where he wanted to go. Good for him. Short career. We got what we wanted. We got guys who want to be in Winnipeg

and are very proud to be a Winnipeg Jet. And the player, again, it goes back to that locker room players feel that and and and the camaraderie becomes a lot tighter when they all know we're all in they all want to be here uh the camaraderie and their chemistry in the room becomes a lot tighter well just shifley like how much do you think it took a load off his shoulders when all that got sorted out? I think a lot. You know, listen, Mark, one thing about Mark that people don't see is how hard he works away from the games. This man is 100% committed to his profession. He does everything he can to prepare.

He's on the ice early working with his skills. He's working out all the time. He looks after himself better than anyone I've ever been around. He is totally, totally committed to his career, his profession, and that rubs off on the players. This guy works very, very hard every day. And so the things that you're seeing, you know, a more complete player for Mark this year, there's no question.

But what you're not seeing is all those other things that he's doing behind the scenes that really earn the respect of the coaches earn the respect of his teammates how hard he works and how committed he is to his profession who on your team do you think could be a coach he has to throw in these tough questions uh dylan debello very smart guy brendan dylan very smart guy Brendan Dillon very smart guy Neil P. Yonk yeah they see the game

they understand the game and they love the game I could see them getting into coaching for sure do you find now like the secret's out about the Winnipeg Jets

and has been out for a while do you find that you're consistently we started this conversation off by talking about Monday's game

against the Boston Bruins do you find that you're getting every team's A game now? Absolutely, without a doubt. We went into Ottawa on Saturday, and it was that 3 o'clock hockey day in Canada, and I spoke to the coaches after, and they said that's the best game they've played all year.

And that's both coaching staffs coming, and the players, they were so dialed in on us and so committed to keeping playing solid defense. Their structure was really good. Their commitment to details was really good. So just talking to their coaching staff. So we went in going, okay, this team is a little loose here, a little loose there. We're telling our players, but they weren't, right?

So there's an example of, okay, they got blown out on a Tuesday by Colorado. They beat Montreal, but Montreal had played the night before on a Thursday. Now we're coming in on a Friday, on a Saturday afternoon at 3 o'clock. They were dialed in, and you could tell from right off the gate, face-offs, details. They knew when to back off. They were very aggressive in their own zone. And, yeah, so now we've got to go in and say, okay, guys, we've got a whole different animal here than what we thought we were going to get.

They're really disciplined. They're coming at it. They're making us work. They're working really hard. So we've got to make some adjustments here. But the coaches clarified it for us after the game. That's by far. And that was their players telling them,

that's the best game we put together all year. So we get everyone's A game. When you're coming in, it's like Vancouver and Boston. You you're playing the top teams you better be ready or you'll get embarrassed um I just want to ask about Judy Bonas how is she doing she's doing much better thanks and she hates the attention as I told you thank you for asking she did have a shoulder surgery last week and she's recovering from that um but she is doing much better thank you very much for asking yeah i don't want to pry but i the thing i the only thing i wanted to ask was at any point did you think that maybe you would have to step away from coaching well when they when it was

happening no but yeah i spent that night with her at the hospital and there's there's times there like if she doesn't come out of this what are we we going to do? Right? So it never came to where I'm done. It didn't certainly get to that point. But, you know, I'm sitting there and she's resting in her house all night. And it crossed your mind that, you know, if she doesn't come out of this, if she's not coming around, I'm not going back. It never got to that point. But the thoughts, well, that could possibly happen at some point here. It all depends on her.

I have two last ones. Number one, you have a wonderful family, aside from yourself and Judy, but your kids and your grandkids. Ryan looks like he's got a very bright future in this game. Ryan, he's smarter than his father because he's in management. I'll tell you about Ryan. So when they were little kids and I always brought them to the rink, my oldest son, Ricky, he's the brains of the family. So Ricky would go on the computer,

and Ryan would be in with the trainers doing the laundry and washing the towels and hanging up equipment. And he'd come in and say, Dad, why did so-and-so change his gloves? Like, I would have no idea. But he noticed all those things. And he always hung out with the trainers he loved being in the room he loved the fact that they actually gave him a piece of pizza for lunch he was eight days but so Ryan's always had what I've the passion for the game loves being

around the game so he played junior in Brampton then he went to St. Mary's but the whole thing with Ryan was that when he was being drafted to the OHL, I kept telling teams, no, no, because I don't have a college degree, and my kids are getting a college degree. And so University of Maine were going to offer him a full ride. I said, Ryan, I don't have a degree. You're getting one. He said, but, Dad, I'm a junior hockey player.

I'm not a college hockey player. And he was right about that. So Stan Butler with Brampton at the time drafted him, And, but I made it very clear with Stan, okay, Stan, if you draft him, he has to keep his marks up in school. And the day that marks drop and he's failing a grade, you're going to bench him. You're not going to play him until those marks go back up. So you want to draft him. These are my rules and Ryan's going to buy into this. So that was, so we'd let him go to Brampton he kept his marks up and he did get a college degree at St. Mary's in finance played a year

in the East Coast League and realized okay get my brains knocked out for 500 bucks a week now yes let's move on here so but he's always had a tremendous passion for the game I use him like Ryan do you know this player like he knows players around the league better than I do now because of his scouting with Winnipeg and with Pittsburgh. So I'm very, very proud of him, and I'm very, very happy for him. He's worked hard, and he's going to get rewarded. But the best thing we, Ryan and all our kids, we said, do whatever you do. When you wake up, I want you to love what you're doing,

going to see that day, going to do that day. Ryan loves hockey as much as I do, and I'm very very proud of him did the jacket make the trip no jacket haven't seen that for a while has been retired it's been retired uh let me finish up with a theoretical question here i'm curious about this i i ask every coach that i can this now um in the PWHL, they have a new rule. It's called the jailbreak. And what happens is if you're killing a penalty and you score shorthanded, the penalty is over. The player comes out of the box.

Would that affect the way you coach your special teams? Either way, whether you're on the power play or you're shorthanded. Knowing that if you score shorthanded power play or you're shorthanded. Knowing that, if you score shorthanded or you're scored against shorthanded, the player's coming out of the box. Would that affect how you coach? No, I don't think so. Probably because I've coached for a long time. Doing it one way, that would be a tough adjustment. No, I don't think so i think your your main objective when you're out there killing the penalty is to kill the penalty uh you're not you're not trying to score

um uh and and players make a lot of money killing penalties they do winning faceoffs killing penalties that's what they're paid to do um so their main job is to go out there and kill that penalty now to go out there and score that penalty. Now, to go out there and score, I think you'd be looking at different personnel. You'd be looking at, yeah, you would have to change the whole way you do it, but maybe it's because the sport's so ingrained in the way I've coached for so long. But I still believe, I like the way it is right now. I do.

So you get players who are exceptional at killing penalties, and they're blocking shots, and they're winning face-offs, and they're making big money from doing that. And good for them. They've earned it. One more coaching question. Do you like the way three-on-three is played right now? I know there's been a lot of discussion about that.

Yes. Well, I do. I mean, you're trying to hang out of the puck you're trying to tire the team out and you're trying to score and you'd like to see us do more attacking because that's when it opens up when you go down on a two-on-one you don't score they're coming you automatically come back on two-on-one now you got to bust back so it's that first team that takes the initiative make that two-on-one try to get the odd man but you know it's teams have team that takes the initiative, make that two-on-one, try to get the odd man. But teams have figured it out. You've got to get up ice with them, and you've got to stay with them.

And I know there's overtimes that very little happens. We had a great overtime in Ottawa. So that's my last example of it. They had a chance. We had chances. It was an exciting overtime for the fans, and the players enjoyed that. You liked it because you won. I liked it because we won. But, yeah, it was exciting for the fans, and the players enjoy that. You liked it because you won. Well, I liked it because we won. But, yeah, it was exciting for the fans

because the fans would get so much into it. But that was an exciting overtime. And I've watched them since discussion comes up, and I'm watching overtimes at night. Now I get what they're understanding when nothing's happening. Somebody eventually has to take a gamble and open it up, and then it goes end to end. This has been great.

Thanks so much for parking time with us. Always appreciate it, Rick. Always a pleasure talking to you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, that's Rick Bonas, head coach of the Winnipeg Jets. And although you're getting this podcast on Friday,

Thursday was his birthday. Happy belated Rick Bon. Uh, big weekend. Once again, as always for hockey night in Canada, a number of intriguing games in New York Rangers face off against the Ottawa senators. Uh, the Maple Leafs face off once again against Rick bonuses, Winnipeg jets this time in Manitoba, it's the habs and the pens, the Hawks and the flames,

the Columbus blue jackets against the team that has the best helmets, whether it's blue chrome, whether it's matte black, the Vancouver Canucks. On behalf of Dom Schramm, Addy, and Alita Friedman, Merrick signing off. We will join you again on Monday for the next edition of 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Have a great weekend.