32 Thoughts: The Podcast - A Conversation with Chayka and Sundin

Episode Date: May 4, 2026

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Elliotte Friedman sits down with the newest members of the Leafs' front office, John Chayka and Mats Sundin. Listen to all the 32 Thoughts music here. Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail. This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

Welcome to a bonus edition of 32 thoughts with John Chaka and Matt Sundin. I know we don't need a long preamble here. You want to hear what they have to say about roster construction, issues of the day and things like that. But I do want to mention that with Chaka, I started with the story reported Monday that he was accused of tampering by someone else. It doesn't sound like it's going anywhere, but it has larger implications. I believe. Initially, I was told a relative of his contacted a former employee of statletes, the analytical company the family owns. That employee now works for an NHL team, and the team reported the contact to the league. Then I heard another story that a different NHL club complained

about improper contact, but when I reached out to that team, they denied it. Whatever the case, it doesn't appear that it's going anywhere. What someone said to me about it, however, was interesting. He said it indicates Cheka's true challenge that the other GMs are unhappy with his hiring and are going to take shots at him every chance they can. It will make an already huge task even harder. That's where we begin the interview with the Maple Leaf's new GM.

First day on the job, and already there's, a tampering story. Can you explain exactly what the league contacted the Maple Leafs about here? Yeah, it's a tough one for me to comment on. I really don't think there's any merit to any of that. And as far as I understood, it's been dismissed. And it was just an allegation of some sort. Okay. One of the things that somebody said to me was that it shows the challenge that you have, that there's not a lot of grace from the other managers here, and that they're upset about your history. and you resurfacing in this spot, and it will make the challenge for you even greater.

Yeah. How do you feel about that? So I think there's a combination of things even. I think there's that part that you're talking about, and I also think there's a part of the Toronto Maple Leafs where, you know, I don't think the league's going to do us any favors, you know, writ large. And, you know, we want to get the job done here

and we're not worried about, you know, the outside. We're going to focus on our team and what we can control. and in terms of me personally, I've always tried to, you know, act as professionally as I can, be a good communicator, work with people to understand what they're looking to do in terms of transactions. And I think if I can continue to do that, my history has been that I've been able to make good transactions for the team,

and that's my focus. Okay, so was there any point after your name surfaced in here? And some of the stories came out, and some of the allegations resurfaced, and some comments were made, that any part of you that said, this isn't for me. No.

Not a spec of that from my side. Okay. Can you work with the other GMs in this league? You've got to make deals. You've got to go on group chats with them. You've got to get things done. Yeah. Are you concerned at all?

You can't do that. Yeah, like I would just point to my history. We were very successful in transacting in Arizona. I think I have great relationships. I really do. You know, there's still a lot of general managers that reached out to me after my announcement. A lot of them I have interacted with and dealt with from the past. It's a pretty good overlap still in the league.

And so I've sat in the chair. I've made those transactions. I have those relationships. I have zero reservation about my ability to do that part of the job. Okay. How have you changed since Arizona? Well, when I took the first role, I was dating my wife, who I'm now married to. I had no kids.

Now I have three. And, you know, I think like any 26-year-old in a decade, a year later, lots of things change. And, you know, look, I've always been big on professional development. I've always been big on, you know, seeking out the best and learning from them. And I'd say, you know, really understanding, you know, sports, understanding how to integrate decision-making with data, with the human element and what that means. And human connection side of the things, I think is, you know, incredibly important.

And, you know, I think as we think about trying to get the job done here in Toronto, it's going to be hard. I think that that part of the team is going to have to be really strong. Okay. So we'll get into changes in the organization first. Yeah. But what is the biggest thing you learned that you have to do now, that you didn't do then or didn't know then? It's not that I didn't know anything, but I'd say, you know, going to Arizona, there was a lot of instability. And I don't think it was anyone's, you know, fault.

But there was a reality of trying to get a new arena done, trying to find an ownership group that could get that done. We had lots of changes on the executive side for the business. And so, you know, as the hockey side was pivoting around, trying to match all that change, it can be challenging. So I think just, you know, the value of stability in any sports organization across any sport is, you know, key tenant to their success. And then alignment, you know, and as you're switching pieces, things shift and move and change.

And, again, I think we did our best to try to be adaptable. But ultimately, you know, a strong owner, CEO, through the hockey department down to the bench, those are key, key variables. What about managing people? What did you learn? Yeah, again, you know, look, I've been managing people from a very young age, right?

I founded staff fleets at a very young age. Then I went right into Arizona. I thought I was going to be assistant GM that lasted a year. End up being a general manager, managing people there. My wife and I have, you know, large holdings of assets.

We've got 5,000 employees. You know, we do several hundred million dollars. of revenue in that as well. And so through all those experiences, I think you're always learning and growing. And I think it's just important to have really, you know, structured communication. I think as a leader,

there's always, you know, several things going on at any given day and really taking time to pause and, you know, think about, you know, the humans involved and making sure that you're connecting with people on an individual level consistently and meeting them where they are. You know, everyone's got a life and they got lots of things going on and being considerer of that

and continuing to build relationships, I just think you can't do enough of it. Okay, so one of the things that I heard about back then was came in young, obviously, and you have to prove that you can run an organization with a lot of veterans in it. Yeah. And it was almost like that was your focus.

I have to prove I can do it, and it kind of affected the way you handled things. Would you say that's fair? Maybe. Yeah, I think that was fair. I would also just add that, you know, again, it was a stressed situation, and we didn't have a lot of margin for error, and I wore that, I'd say. It was important for that franchise to survive and, you know, to get a new arena, and there were

these kind of bigger existential type of factors that I was involved in. And so I think that that also contributed to some of that. Is there an understanding on your part here that there's no margin for error? Like, people are looking for reasons to come after you. I just think there's no margin for error in this market to get the ultimate job done of winning the Stanley Cup. And so, again, I'm less focused on me as an individual and personally, really focused on the organization and achieving our goals. And yeah, look, it's, like I said, it's the most coveted job in sports and it's also the hardest, in my opinion. And I took this job with eyes wide open that that was a case. Okay, let's talk about the team.

When you look at the team, what has to change? So good question. I'll start with what that no needs to stay, which is I think you can only win with world-class talent and world-class people, and I think we have some of that. And so, you know, I think it's my job is to take that and surround it

with the best and the brightest. I want to build the best front office we can possibly build, make sure that we're supporting our players. They know we've got their backs. There's good communication. They feel valued. And I think if we can do that,

you know, their performance will continue to improve in terms of what needs to change, you know, I do think we need to, you know, do our best to, you know, change the mix on the back end. I think, you know, if you look at how this group defended, we defended too long,

we didn't break out the puck well enough, we didn't join the rush well enough, and, you know, a lot of that starts from the back end. So I think that's a kind of key priority for us and something we'll be focused on. Are there options, I don't want you, are there options where you think you can reasonably do that? Yeah, again, I don't have a crystal ball.

So, you know, I don't know what the options are and what's going to come, but I'd say, you know, talking to some of the scouts already, you know, there's a belief that we can get some momentum back in this group. And I think momentum's a funny thing in sports. And if we can do that, I think it'll take care of itself. Okay. Austin Matthews. Yeah. Let's take hypotheticals here. Okay.

At some point, you're going to meet with him. Yep. First of all, what's your relationship with him? We've heard a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I was lucky to be general manager when Austin was coming up before his draft here even. And, you know, just to see him in that community and see him engaging with people.

And, you know, the skill level is obvious at that age even. But the type of person he is really stood out. And, you know, he was friends with a lot of our players. And he was always around. And so, you know, just got to know him through that. I was also lucky to spend some time with his family. Again, I'm just in the area. Wonderful people.

World class people. really, you know, tells a story of how Austin was raised. And I think that matters when you're talking about a challenge like Toronto. You know, I think as time's gone by, you know, I know Judd. I know, again, his dad and spent a lot of time around the group. But, you know, I'd say this is a different position, and we're going to build a different relationship and he's a captain of Toronto Maple Leafs. So he holds a big stake in everything we do.

And I want to go and listen and hear what he has to say. I heard in a lot of the interviews, it was very clear that people felt who were interviewing for the job, that if they're going to be successful here, Austin Matthews must be convinced to stay. And I think the organization wants that too, correct? Correct. How do you convince him that you can go on the right path here?

Yeah, I think Austin's ultimate goal is the same as ours. So it's a shared goal, common goal. And it's our, both Matt and I, our job to, you know, meet with him and understand his perspective. Again, we're joining. He's been here. He's the captain. He's got a good feel for things.

We want to hear his view and hear how he thinks about things and what he thinks needs to be improved. And then we're going to share our vision as well. And, you know, Matt's and I have a lot of ideas on things. You know, Matt's from being a cabin of the Toronto Maple Leafs, being in the locker room, you know, being a successful NHL player, you know, the hardest working guy, the leader, the most humble. You know, and I think on my side, you know,

a lot of thoughts around roster construction, team building, and, you know, not just for, you know, one day or one move or one season. and we want to show him a long-term vision that get them excited. So what is, like, in a perfect world, if you had a vision of what this team would look like, what would that be? I think it's important when you get into the playoffs that you've got a lot of versatility. I think the teams that are winning now can play games in a lot of different ways. I think they all have kind of the same principles and fundamentals,

really strong goal-tending, great back-end, you know, game breakers up front. Those are kind of the table stakes. I think a lot of these things that are talked about, whether it's speed of the game or heaviness, grit, snarl, snot, whatever you want to call it, those are all elements you have to have in your game. But I think as you get through these playoff matchups, you have to have some versatility in order to match up well

and ultimately get on the next round. How do you see Matt's role? Technically, you're above him on the hierarchy. How do you see his role? Yeah, I don't really see it that way. Like, I think from my perspective, my job is general managers to generally manage, and that means that, you know,

every day there's lots of decisions made and there's not one person making those decisions. I think it's important to have an amazing group that collaborates that puts all the information on the table, no ego, and the best idea should win. And if that's my idea, that's great, but oftentimes it's not going to be. And if it is, we've got a problem. So, you know, Matt's got a big voice. He's got a lot of thoughts on what, you know, he thinks needs to be done. I'm going to listen to that and obviously take it extremely seriously and vice versa.

So, you know, I think we've got a lot of respect for each other, and we're going to, you know, balance ideas off here with the end goal of what's the best for the organization. So if you have an idea and Matt says, I think that's a bad idea, what happens? We don't do it. That's simple? That's simple. Okay. Just Baroube. Yeah.

You said you met with him? Call. Call. Okay. Excuse me. Thank you. You spoke to Baroube. Yep.

If he's going to be back, what does he have to say to you? How does that work? look we're going to get together in person and we're going to walk through everything and yeah I think it'll be really important to understand his thoughts in the roster and his vision of what he sees going on the future obviously it was a tough season

and he knows that he said it himself and you know he has ideas of ways he wants to get better so I want to hear what those ideas are and I want to understand you know there's in a tough season there's good times and there's bad times and what you know what does he do when the times were bad and what did he try and what worked and what didn't work?

And I think those are all ideas that we should spend some time on together. I'd also say that, you know, I view the coaching relationship with the front office as a real collaboration. I think the coach is an organizational role. And so I just want to talk to him and, you know, hear his view on, you know, how he was integrated and, you know, his view on all the different resources available to beliefs and how we can maybe do a better job with all that. Do you see William Neelander as a key cornerstone of the Maple Leafs? I do. Yeah, I think he's a world-class talent.

Could be one of the most talented players in the world. I think, again, Matt's his special relationship with his dad, the Swedish background. I think we need to find a way to get more of our entire group. And, you know, William Nealander's in that. Okay. I guess the kind of the last thing I wanted to ask is front office. Yeah. They were initially told after the previous change that there were going to be more changes.

Okay. Is that fair? I would say that there's usually some organic change that occurs in any front of office. I don't have any preordained plans. I'm going to meet with everybody. I'm going to get to know what they do. I'm going to give them some thoughts on my vision and make it sure it's a mutual sharing of thoughts. And then I'm sure at some point we'll make some decisions, but at this stage there's no plans.

Okay. I guess the last one I have for you is kind of to put the floor to you a bit here. You've heard a lot said there's been a lot of criticism. There's been a lot of noise. If you could address everybody and say one thing to them about John Jacob, GM, Toronto Maple Leafs, what would that be? I'd just say that I'm very mission-driven and anything I've taken on. Like I said, the mission for the coyotes was to keep them in Arizona. The mission for my businesses is to get back to my community and build an asset that lasts.

And here the mission is to win the Stanley Cup. and I'm very committed to that. I'm going to pour my heart and soul into that. And ultimately, I know I'll be judged on that basis. How did this start? How did this happen? Well, I think I had a breakfast with Keith Pelly about a year and a half ago. I think that was our first meeting.

Since then, the last few months, so I've had a lot of meetings with different stakeholders. So it's been a long process. When did you decide you wanted to do this, that this was real? Well, you know, I watched, obviously, followed the leaves since I retired, but especially the last six, seven years, followed the league, done some work with the Swedish national team, and also with done TV in the Olympics during the Olympic tournament.

So, you know, just like many former players, hockey is the big passion. And for me, this was a perfect time. Our kids are a little bit older. I've been away from hockey for a while. Different perspective on the game, able to look at it with different eyes. So when we start talking about it, I got really excited. And if I was going to get involved somewhere, it was Toronto, right? We've been to the conference finals twice.

I think the experience of which I think Keith and MLSC valued, which I think is important great organizations, is actually to learn from the past, good things that previous decisions been made in the earlier generations, but also mistakes that have been made. And I'm talking both in terms of the locker room, but for management as well. And I think organizations needs to grow. And I think that perspective, the experience that I have from 18 years in the league, 13 years with the leaves, and 11 years as a captain, seen pretty much at all, I think that experience really can help.

Toronto, please. So when you said to your family, you want to do this, I mean, might have to move back to Canada. What did your wife say? What did your kids say? She was, we're going to have to think about that. She said, no, but I think, and same for the family.

They're older now. I think it's a great experience for our family. You know, Canada, for me, obviously for a long period of my adult life was my home and Canada and Toronto. So for them to experience, that I think it's a great adventure for our family. Okay.

So I wanted to ask you, what's your role exactly? Like we understand kind of the habit, but how do you see your role? I think I've seen the role to really, I think John is a brilliant, high intellect, very progressive also understands the data, but common value as agenda manager. and I think my experience that I have, I think it's tough to get from someone else. I think I know a lot about the market of Toronto for players or management what goes on here.

So I'm hoping to be able to bring that experience to the locker room players, coaches and management. And like I said on the press conference, I think there's been some generations, if you look back 20, 30 years with Wendell Clark and Doug Gilmore. myself some good runs. I think there's been a lot of good things happening there, both in the locker room and management, and some mistakes as well. And I think it's important to learn from that

as you and help this generation of Toronto Police. Okay, so, you know, you've heard some of the comments about John. You saw some of the questions at the media conference. Does that concern you at all less? Not at all. I think John and I met him the first time Memorial Cup for a long, long time ago. I think me and him have a vision of what a winning team looks like are exactly the same. And he's a hardworking guy,

smart guy. I think the way the game is being played today, I think it's a perfect match for Toronto to take the Toronto Maple Leafs into the future, so I'm not concerned about that. All right, let's talk about your vision. When you talk about the way the game is played, what did you see from the Maple Leafs this year

in terms of the way they play and the style they play and how much do you think that has to change? Well, you know, it's one thing to look at them from the outside. I think there's a lot of evaluation that has to happen all this summer to be able to look and talk to players and people around the team and understand really how far the team is from being a true contender and making long runs into the playoffs. I think anyone that watches the game today understand it's a high pace. you know, great skating on pretty much all positions, great goaltending.

But as I said, where we are today, it's going to be a lot of evaluation. Okay. Wanted to ask about Austin Matthews. How do you convince Austin Matthews that this is the right place for him? Yeah, I think Austin Matthews, listen, he's the, I think the leading score in the league, right, the last 10 years, he's arguably been one of the best players in the world for the past. 10 years, led team USA to gold, is a leader, is a great person, comes from a great family.

I think, and I hope that he understands the market of Toronto, that this is the place to win, right? If I'm going to have success, there's no better place to do it and be in a Maple Leafy, so I'm really looking forward to talk to him. And also, have you spoken to Nylander yet? No. Okay. Just conversation with Willie.

You know, he's a talented guy. It was kind of a tough, crazy year for him. Like, lots of weird stuff happened. Yeah. How do you, what do you envision your conference? Like, do you feel that Austin and will he have to stay here and be the leaders into the future? Like, I think, you know, and I've been there myself, any players that don't make the playoffs and you go home and you're sitting and watch the playoffs and see the excitement from the fans and the players. and as you go into a long run are eager to get back.

And I'm sure both Willie and Austin, they're all committed to have a great summer off-ice, and they're going to be eager to make it into the playoffs next year. But I think that goes for all players. Not only, obviously, they're two of the top stars, but I think all players, when you miss the playoffs, there's a drive there, and they got lots of time now to think about it

to come back into training camp. And the team, you know, has proven the previous years, too, that they're had very strong regular seasons once spring comes around. All right. And when you watch the Maple Leafs this year, is there anything you looked at and you said, they need this? We have to get this.

You know, as I said, I think there's a lot of evaluation that has to happen now. I think it's too early until you actually meet players. and everybody that works around the team to see what's actually been going on. And like we talked about, what are great, some things that are great that are in place and other things they want to add. So we'll have to see. All right. You mentioned that there were a lot of experiences you went through as a player that will shape you now.

I'm wondering if there was something in particular that you remember happening and you said either that will be the way I lead or that won't be the way. lead. Well, I think even though the game has changed, obviously, since I played, and even if you look back five, six, ten years ago, I think the characteristics of a winning locker room doesn't change. So, and people say, you don't really know what a great locker room is until you're actually there in a winning atmosphere, right? So I think that has to be in place, I think, and, you know, something has to be built within the players, within the organization, right? And that hasn't changed today, whether it's today or 20, 30 years ago. So what are other characteristics of a winning

room? What do you have to have? There has to be a common vision of a greater good, right? We have a mission that we're building to, and I think all players has to be committed, right? So when the spring comes around, this is when the real season starts, and we're trying to win a championship, and we're doing it for myself. And I'm going to try to be as best as I can be to achieve that goal. And you need all guys to buy it. Not only the players, I would say, it's everybody around the players and around the organization

that needs to buy in the done. All right. Final one for you. I've spoken to a lot of players retired who go into management. And the hardest thing for them is, A, to talk bad about players as managers sometimes have to do, or B, inform them that, you know what, we have to move on.

Like, I remember how you fought against moving on. Are you going to be able, like, are you prepared for that? Yeah, I think it's part of the job, right? And that comes with a territory. I think as long as John and I have a clear vision of what that winning team looks like, there's going to be some things that are great about it, and there's going to be tough decisions, right? That's part of the territory.

Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Elliot. Great to see you. How do you like your steak? What's that? How do you like your steak? It was good. A medium. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What cut? What's that? What's that? I eat everything. Great to see. Yeah, good to see, Elliot.