32 Thoughts: The Podcast - A Conversation With Martin St. Louis and Andrew Ladd

Episode Date: October 24, 2026

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman sit down with Montreal Canadiens Head Coach Martin St. Louis ahead of the NHL Heritage Classic in Winnipeg, and former Winnipeg Jet and BC Hockey Hall of Famer Andrew Ladd before the Heritage Classic Alumni Game. Listen to all the 32 Thoughts music here.Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.32 Thoughts is produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You are not seeing double. Welcome to 32 Thoughts to Podcast, another special edition interview pod, and the lead up to the Tim Horton's Heritage Classic here on Sunday night in Winnipeg between the Jets and the Canadians. If you happen to catch our interview from earlier on Saturday already with Jets General Manager Kevin Shevoldeoff, thank you for tuning in. If you haven't yet, we highly recommend it. He was excellent. And we have two more interviews for you here that we gathered this weekend in the peg. Canadians head coach, Martin St. Louis, and Winnipeg Jets alumni, retired player, and BC Hockey Hall of Fame member, Andrew Ladd.

Both were phenomenal and really appreciate the time that they gave to us here over the course of the weekend. St. Louis, as you can imagine, incredibly insightful when it came to coaching philosophy as him and this Montreal Canadiens group move into the next phase of their growth. and some really great storytelling from Andrew Ladd, too, from his days in Calgary with the Hitman, of course, his time with the Jets, and how he views coaching at the youth level. There's so much there to get to with Andrew as well. But we're going to start with Martan, the head coach of the Habiton, on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. So, Martan, we were talking about this just before you came in here. You know, we're sitting here in kind of your temporary coaches room set up in the hotel.

You guys came right from Chicago after the game last night. It's just a reminder that the machine never really started. stops once the season starts. So could you take us through what a day like today is like? I know it's a unique one. These are practicing so late at night at the stadium. But what do you hope to get out of a day like today? How do you plan out your attack?

Yeah, I mean, like with this event tomorrow, right, this game, you know, a day like today is not typical of what it would be a normal day in between game on the road. Right. But, you know, in terms of what today brings, I would say 90, percent of the guys here, families coming in, right? And we have a seven o'clock practice. They'll probably start rolling in now. So, you know, it's a lot of free time for them to spend some time with their family.

We're going to go touch the ice tonight. It's going to be pretty light in terms of hockey. You know, I don't know exactly, like, how long we're going to be on the ice, trying to feel the environment a little bit. but totally not a typical day in between game from the road. But I think it's a great opportunity to, I guess, you know, celebrate the game, you know, get to play outdoor. You know, to me it's the hockey at his purest and to share it with the loved one, the family. So I think it's kind of a weekend to celebrate what we get to do.

with the people that we love. So today is nowhere close to what a day would be if it was a normal day in between games on the road. How much do you sleep? Like, what time did you get in? So we got in at 2.30 probably at the hotel. What time do you wake up? Today, I woke up at 10.

Nice. Yeah. Yeah, I can, I need a good six hours at least. And you're a good sleeper? I am. I don't need much sleep, but I need like a good six. So I would say I probably went to sleep. sleep around 3.30 by the time I fell asleep, you know, you come in, you get unpacked a little bit

on wine. Right. But I can operate on six hours. So if you don't get six hours, are you really crabby guy? No, I'm not. I just know I'm better. Right. Right. Are you a guy that, like, the alarm goes off or do you even need one? Are you spring out of bed or does it, does it take a bed? I would say both. I always have the alarm. But like this morning, I didn't really, I mean, I think I, just in case, I set up my alarm at noon in case. Sure. You know, but I was up at 945, 10, you know, at home on a normal day, I definitely said the alarm and plenty of time I wake up before it, but you need that safety net.

Yes. You know what I like about that, Martine is that you can sleep until, like, I'm, I can sleep into, I really like, but sometimes when I sleep in, I feel like, oh, my God, I'm going to miss something. And I wonder as a coach who's supposed to be on top of everything. Do you ever worry if you sleep in until 10 o'clock, a bunch of things are going to happen that you were supposed to have dealt with?

I don't think so. No. That's so nice and peaceful. I wish I was like that. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think you're lying to work. You might miss something. I think you need to be on.

I think for me, you know, before you go to bed, you already have an idea of what the next day is going to be like, you know, and you don't have all your answers when you're going to bed. But, you know, by the time you wake up and you get to the, rink you probably got steer in the direction and if it's not there yet you know within an hour you're at the rink you know because we get there you know pretty early i would say in uh you know that first hour you get to the rink you get steer how you're going to attack that day you know so i'm not uh you know i feel when you're always thinking ahead you know that brings anxiety and and uh yeah

i feel like i just try to uh uh you know deal with you it when it comes versus like trying to control everything uh ahead of time and then the wheel starts going and then harder to sleep so right so when you talk about getting steered when you get to the rink what promotes that is that stuff you're looking at over video is a conversation with the rest of your staff yeah it's both i don't think it's one thing i think you know the the previous game you know if we played the night before you've already had some discussion during the game between periods after the game. You know, so you already have an idea.

Well, it's nice to take the time, sleep on it, and then the next day kind of reconvene and see, like, hey, where we was last night emotionally driven, you know, because I feel like I'm very process driven, and so I don't want to sway from that. And it's easy to sway from that if, you know, know, you let everything drive from emotion based on result, you know, this league. So I try to stay process driven. Now, who's the first person at the rink every day? I would say, well,

definitely the trainers, equipment guys, you know, and maybe the kitchen staff too, maybe. You know, and probably our video coaches. They're always, they always beat you there. Yes. And who's the first player. Like in Edmonton, it's dry-sidal. They always joke, he's the first guy. I don't know. It's usually the guys with the kids. They want to get out of the house. Yeah, well, they're up early, you know. So, you know, the Matheson, the Jake Evans, you know, Susie's there early, Andy. And we have more guys now that are dads, so some guys show up pretty early. I wonder, like, we were interviewed. Lane, too, by the way.

Yeah. Surprise. Yeah. Yeah. We wonder if you ever left. We interviewed Andrew Ladd earlier and he talked about like with him and the guys that were kind of the core players of the time in Winnipeg, the Bufflins and Blake Wheeler of the world. He said it was so interesting with them as they all started to have kids together and kind of moved into that next phase of their lives together, but also as teammates. Do you recall going through that as a player with certain guys that you were with, like in Tampa for a long time?

And it sounds like we're starting to see that next phase here with the current crop of the Canadians as everyone kind of gets older and new exciting things in their lives that they go through together. Yeah, I mean, you know, I went to Tampa in 2000. And my first born was 2003. And in 2001, I believe it was the year that we got Dave Enderchuk and he had three young girls. And Dave was always the first guy at the rink. and you know you can never beat him to the rink and once I had a kid I was close to beating them

all these kids are going to get a complex if they listen to this interview yeah no because you're just up early you're up early right so this year for the first time since you started coaching the Canadians the Canadians have a target on their backs no more everybody gets do you notice that everybody looks at you guys differently this year

i don't think we we uh we worry too much about what's the outside perception you know and i would say it started you know i don't know this is my fifth year you know when i when i took the the job officially that summer after i was interim head coach we came in and, you know, we had a goal, you know, and it was not necessarily how much time it's going to take us, you know, we were just going to try to have a plan, have a vision. Obviously, there has to be some kind of deadline. This isn't forever. If you don't have any deadline on anything, to me, it's just a fantasy. So, you know, I think we were strategically, moving along and not worry about what people were thinking about us, you know, and, you know,

we, we got, we took some, some bad losses, you know, and we weren't embarrassed, you know, we were just working on our game, you know, and now we're, we're at a place where we've, we've found some more consistent result. We've probably gained some respect around the league, but we're not worried about where people outside are placing us or putting us. Like, it doesn't mean anything. You got to go out and play the game. And for us, we're really focusing on ourselves and what we're trying to do each and every day.

And we're in a market where, you know, expectations, of course, rises, you know. But, you know, we have our own standard that we're chasing every day, you know, so to speak. So we're not, whether there's higher expectation from the market from around the league about us, like we're, that's not we're worrying about. We're worrying about, you know, stacking the days. When you first took the job, I mean, it was, did you envision, did you have any thought about, how long you were going to do this for? Or were you able to stay in the moment from the beginning? Well, again, it goes back to, you know,

you feel like you're missing out something when you're sleeping. Yeah. You know, I was going to be, I try to be where my feet are. I'm not worried. I can't control everything, but I didn't know, I don't know how long I'm going to be the coach. And I'm not worried about it, you know. I'm going to try to be my best version every day,

help steer this group to accomplish their goals, collectively, individually. You know, and if at the end of the day, I'm not the guy, I'm not the guy. I'm not worrying about that. Like, I'm, I'm confident that, you know, I'm doing everything I can to, to earn everybody's respect each and every day.

And does that get us to keep moving forward? And does that keep me around longer? I don't know. But I'm not worrying about it. I'm okay with the effort I'm putting in the attitude that I bring every day. You know, I'm not, I don't worry about that stuff. I really don't.

I'm wondering when you go back, because John Cooper has told some good stories about how you guys, when he was coaching and you were playing like sometimes you guys butted heads a little bit. And he, but I was wondering if there was something he did as a coach that you looked at back then.

He said, this is ridiculous. And now that you're a coach, you're like, now I know why he did that. I don't remember budding heads with Cooper as a player. He said it was, he said it was always playing time.

Like you want, you want it to be on the ice. all the time. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I think every top players won that. But I think Kube came out of time when he had some young guys too

that he's trying to bring up, right? And, you know, but I don't remember budding heads. And I don't remember, like, this is crazy what he's doing. I actually think that, you know, for, it surprised me in the sense, you know,

Coupe has a hockey background and played but coach, but never played at a high level, played lacrosse, Hofstra. And I was surprised how much intellect went into, you know, the way he wanted his team to play, which it was very refreshing for me because I was, as a player, I felt like I was budding heads with my coach, my coaches to bring more.

intellect to the game. Mm-hmm. Right? And so I'm not surprised that they've had the run. They've had the success, the continued success, because I feel they were with Coop, they were at the forefront of bringing more intellect into the game. You know, I'm talking about the way to break the puck out,

the support on the ice, really the rules of what teams, the team game should be, you know, like the, if you watch soccer and, you know, the balance on the ice and basketball, whatever, you know, hockey is a lot of similarity in the principle of the team game. And I felt Kup understood that, you know, and even like just like face off plays, face off routes, whatever it was, it was refreshing. So I don't remember budding heads strategically with Kup, but I'm sure. I push for more ice time. You know, you never get more unless you ask. Quiet mouths don't get fed. Quiet mouths don't get fed.

Now are there guys on the team now that are ones that would do the old look over the shoulder on the bench going, I'm ready, I'm ready. Yeah, I mean, it happens. And, you know, we have the technology today you know I have a big iPad I know exactly their projected ice time throughout the game for everybody you know and you know the window that these guys should hit you know now do you if a guy's playing really well does you go above that absolutely but also

like if a guy's playing really well and I'm like gosh how is he underneath is where is target right now right so we didn't have that back then you know you only saw after the game The sheet. So I think as their coach is very helpful. And to manage that. So I think there's less of those moments where guys like, what about me, that kind of stuff, right? Because I think we can track it throughout the game. On the bench, it shows you projected ice time.

And every coach in the league has access? Oh, yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. That's interesting. So, you know, halfway through the game, second period, I can, I go project. I'm like, okay, I got to get this guy out more. I got, you know. How often do you check it?

Pretty often. Do you have guys, and you don't have to say names obviously if you don't want, but do you have guys on your team who are like, if I put this guy over 18, I know it's not good for him. Like 18 is his max. Yeah. I would say yes, you know, but it's not like you're going to. not do it just because of it. You know, sometimes it's just the way he's playing,

the way the game is going. And, you know, let's say you have a back-to-back and you know that he went above, you know, you got to be careful the next day. Over a season, it adds up. So, you know, you got to be careful as much as you want, you know, to play the hot hand sometime. You also have to understand that sometimes

you might need to protect the player from himself as well. So it's a balance. But we have all the information at our fingertip, and it's easy to navigate. Is there anything else you check in game besides projected ice time or anything else you're constantly looking at here? Well, I mean, between periods, for sure. You know, we'll strategically, we'll look at stuff, you know.

But in terms of that kind of data in game, no. you know, we look at the iPad and drink TV timeout. And, you know, if we just had a power play, we'll take a look at it, you know, and that kind of stuff, PK, maybe some face-off things that, you know, we're trying to do. And you realize that they're not doing that tonight. So what you plan is not going to work. So you can make some subtle adjustments during period based with the technology that we have, which, you know, I'm assuming in the past. In the past, it probably had to wait until between periods, you know what I mean, to take a look at it. Unless you have a really smart eye in the sky.

But, no, the technology has been very helpful. You have to be careful how you use it too. Well, I was wanted to ask, is your philosophy still with your players, no tablets during play? Yeah, as much as, you know, as much as we can, you know, I want them to keep their eyes on the game when the play's going. Okay, what player do you have on the Canadians who reminds you the most of yourself? Hmm. I don't know if it, I mean, I feel like there's different players for different reason. You know, I feel like Susie plays such a cerebral game, you know, like you can slow the game down, you know, find, find the shooters.

I feel like that was probably something I really like to do. I think Cole brings so much enthusiasm in practice I feel like I had that like really love the game you know then Elaine who works on his game so much I feel I had a little bit of that too

like so I don't know if it's one guy yeah yeah Bobby you know Suzuki being out now like that's kind of like your safety blanket you could always he's the guy you probably trust the most, throw him out there in any situation,

how different is it coaching when you don't have them for an extended period? Well, I don't really know yet, to be honest, right? I'm one game in. Yep. Right? So, you know, the one thing for sure is Susie will eat a lot of the matchouts, right, at home and on the road.

So I'm curious to see like how how that's going to affect us a little bit. You know, so we'll see. But it's the first, I'm one game in, right? So it's hard for me to see what's my biggest, I think I'm going to find out. So Craig Simpson, who we work with was on the Oilers coaching staff for a couple of years. And one of the terms that he used is kind of half jokingly.

He said the big thing for coaching is you've got to learn to manage. your hate a little bit when it comes to your players in the sense of like you've seen what they're capable of and what you believe they can do and then when there's moments where they don't do that you've got to somehow temper your expectations of going well I know you can do it I just wonder if that does that resonate at all with you in certain moments I feel it's a function of you know their rage their experience they're where they are in their development you know how many years pros they've played you know I what I expect from a second year player versus what I expect from a five, six year player is not the same. And I've compared it before to raising a child. You know, what you teach or hold accountable, your four-year-old versus your 12-year-olds

versus your 16-year-old. It's different. It's got to be fair, right? And so it's constantly, trying to, you know, you got to do some teaching there. And yeah, there's growing pain. And, but it's constantly trying to, especially how young the league is, is, you know, come from a place that your players understand that you care about their older version versus the version now. And that's why you're teaching. And, and you can just be.

negative because they've had failures, you know, the failures, they're learning, you know, and they're going to make a mistake, okay, the mistake's a mistake. They make the same mistake. That becomes a habit. And now they keep making the same mistake. Now it's really a character trait, right? So you have to, you have to, you have to. to explain that, right?

Because it always starts with the players. We're trying to steer them in the right direction because we care about their future version more than their present version. And you got to convince them that you really care about that. And that's why, you know, you're doing some hard coaching right now or sometimes it's a pat on the back. Sometimes it's a conversation that has nothing to do with hockey.

They got to know you care about them. and we always care about the future version way more than the present version because we're trying to build a championship team. Right. Interesting. I want to go to Dovish a bit. So he has that penalty the other night and you're already kind of smiling a little bit.

And, you know, some coaches, when it comes to goalies, they're like, I don't really talk to my goalies or I just, and also like obviously he's a guy mentally. Like he's, he does a lot of work with mental coaches and he's, you know, he's, obviously that's something he really battles us to control his emotions. How do you deal with him in the aftermath of that? Honestly, like, there's not much to be said, you know. What makes dobs great sometimes is the same thing that puts dobs in trouble. Our best characteristic is always our worst characteristics.

Sometimes. Yes. So, like, I'm, you know, Dope's a competitor. He competes and he wants, he wants to help, right? Like, he takes a penalty. He's trying to help. He's not trying to hurt the team, but, you know, that's a learning moment for him. You know, how much was he helping versus how much was he hurting?

It's a fine line. The referee decided to call it. It could have been not called, and nobody's talking about it. But, you know. When you're in the position to, you know, to win games in the third or get the extra point in overtime, you know, you have to be careful in giving the ref the opportunity to make that decision, right? And I think he's still a very young player. He's learning that. But his biggest strength sometimes, you know, for anybody can hurt them as well, you know. But I don't want him to go away from his strength. That's what makes him great.

Just to understand that and sometimes to maybe do less. Do you think, you know, he won the job last year, did a great job for you guys. And now he's getting a challenge this year from Fowler. Do you think that affects him at all? I've wondered watching it from outside. Well, I mean, of course Dobbs would have much rather have a good start, right? You know, so does it affect him? I would say, you know, in the moment, probably, right?

Because he's a proud guy. But to me, it's having perspective of, again, future dobs versus present doves. It's part of his growth. What he's going through right now is part of his growth, you know, because he's had such a great year. you're a good run for us. And now he's in this moment. That can be uncomfortable, right?

And that's where you get, in my mind, especially for a young player, when you get uncomfortable, you're able to expand more. That's where the growth happens. So he's going through it now and I'm okay with it. It's part of his growth. He's going to be fine. Seems like you've long had such a great pulse on your, players. I mean, can you tell whether you guys get on the ice for practice, whatever it may be,

like eye contact something right away. Can you tell which guys are going, he's in a great spot mentally or maybe, maybe I need to check in with this guy? Yeah, if you can tell before on the ice, you can just, you understand, you leave the rink, you have a good feeling of how everybody feels about themselves, their game or whatnot. And now it's to, you know, the most, you Listen, I'm a big believer in stacking the days. And when you leave the rank at night after a win or loss, you know, the most important day is the next one. Now, that day is over. The most important one is the next one.

So you got to be prepared for it, right? You have to have a great, you know, practice plan. You know, there's probably going to be, I would say, 70% of time there's probably a message. sometimes there isn't but you got to know who you need to I call it touch you know we keep track of

who we touch in terms of touch is this you know could be a video session could be a conversation it could be anything it's not a hey how you doing that's not a touch just walking by somebody if you take time with someone that's a touch and you need to we keep track of those

because it's easy throughout an 84-game schedule, you know, six, seven months to lose guys through the tracks. Because not everybody, some guys don't need the way their personality are. They don't need, they come across like they don't need anything. That doesn't mean that they don't need anything. That's just how they come across, their personality. Some guys are going to come and see you. Some guys don't come and see you at all. doesn't need that they don't need you right so for us it helps us make sure that we take care of

everyone and you know it's one of the first things we do in the morning who do we need to touch today and why you know and we have a good feeling the night before talking about it a little bit and helps us stay organized that way and make sure that we don't lose anyone just because their personality doesn't show us that they need us. That's what, I remember one coach said that to me once. It says that there are some guys and, you know, that they're just, they're low maintenance.

They, they're quiet. And you kind of forget that you have to go talk to them. Yeah. For a while. Yeah. Like, I just wondering, like, is there anybody on this team was like that kind of low maintenance, quiet guy that you're maybe every week or two,

weeks you're like I haven't touched this guy in a bit we have you know we have 20 you know 20 something players great people different personalities and like every team we have those guys for sure okay one thing I wanted to ask so the first ever Canadian gold in hockey was the Winnipeg Falcons in 1920 fast forward to the World Cup well now what's that first ever Olympic gold that Canada had in hockey with Winnipeg Falcons in 1920. Okay. And World Cup of hockey in 2004, the game you guys played in Montreal against the U.S., you guys wore jerseys honoring that team and you open scoring that game.

Do you still have that jersey or anything? You do, right? That mustard yellow, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You still have it? Yeah. Wow. They do.

Jeez. What do you remember? Like, that was, I mean, the whole tournament, you know, unfortunately we knew the lockout was coming on the other side of it. But what do you remember about that whole? Oh, I was in Montreal, right? Yes. And it's.

There was a stretch of, you know, two or three years that things really happened fast for me. Like, you know, my first game in Tampa in 2000, I played a minute 50. Okay. And then you go four years and I'm on Team Canada now, right? And I, three months prior, I won the Stanley Cup as a hard trophy winner. Like, it happened so fast. It's almost like I couldn't believe. that where I was like I might you know it was surreal my family was there you know and I

remember like I you know I went to that 2004 camp they had picked a team but then we had a camp we had five lines and I'm I'm on a line with you know Brad Richards and Mario Lemieux show up to camp I'm like oh my gosh I'm on a line with Maryle am you like this is a guy that I idolize and watched and I When I came into the league, he had retired because of his injuries. I believe in 01 he came back. Yeah, I think it was December 2000. Yeah, just half thousand.

So my first year in Tampa in December, he came back. I couldn't believe I was going to play against Mario. Right? And I wasn't 2004. Marty at the time was 2000. They playing fault line and scratched, whatever. But, you know, you fast forward and now. I'm playing with Mary-Ole-Lam-U.

And it's like, what's going on? You know? And so what I remember is I couldn't believe that I was playing for Team Canada, right? And, yeah, I scored the first goal. I think I was first star of that game. It was, it was crazy. Think about all the players that are on that team. And you rewind three, four years ago.

I'm so far from that. And my parents get to cheer for me on Team Canada. That was amazing. In Montreal. That was pretty neat. You know, I wanted to ask you now,

we're in Winnipeg. Connor Hellebuck got traded yesterday. And there's a big thing right now about U.S.-born players in Canada. And you're in Montreal, you're in the opposite of that stream right now. You've got Lane Hudson signed for

eight years. You've got Cole Coughfield signed for seven years. Why do you think it's different? I don't know. Like, we can only control our environment. I don't know how it is everywhere else. And I think it goes back to when I worry

everything is everywhere else. We just take care of ourselves, right? So, I don't know. I feel like we've built an environment where the players enjoy coming to the rank, not because we're going to win every game, but I feel because, you know, the way we attack every day, and I think, you know, not necessarily we're happy because we win, we're sad because we lose, we come to the rink with some truth, perspective, and a plan, and we go. And I feel the guys,

The guys like that. Outfits for tomorrow. Like, what do you got for the coaches, right? Because it's usually something sharp on the bench. I think we have a vintage jacket. Do you have a fedora? Is that what they're called, Chantel? You know, the hats.

Yeah. Is that a fedora? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. You look good in the hats? I have no idea. We'll find out. How often do you speak to Kent or Gordon?

Every day. Some coaches, yeah, some coaches know, so do you ever ask them, like, what's going on? Like, what are your conversations like with Kent and Jeff Gordon? I mean, it varies. I mean, there's some day-to-day stuff, right? Guys injured and need to call somebody up, you know, there's definitely a time to be line-up decisions. and, you know, we'll talk about how we're playing, you know, but I don't go to Kent and, you know, we need this guy,

you got to get this guy out. Like, I've never done that. Like, I trust Kent and Gort so much, you know, and they've seen what we're doing. And I trust, you know, they're going to make the best decisions for the team for now and the future that I just try to do, you know, what I'm supposed to do, you know, so I feel like once you start worrying about that, I think it takes time away for what you're actually supposed to do here for. And all your walks to the rink back in Montreal, have you had a favorite interaction over the years from a favorite? man or then wandering about the city?

I mean, favorite? Or at least one that left a lasting memory. I mean, I do have a lot of interaction, and the people are nice. But I had a couple. It was funny. I was on the corner and I had a couple older ladies. They must have been in their 70s.

And, you know, they said that they don't watch all the games, but they watch all my pressers. Really? Really? Yeah. They love the pressers, you know, so it's kind of funny, you know. It's a masochus. Yeah, they, it was hilarious.

They were all like, they said that they never really watched hockey, but they're starting to watch more and they love the presser. You know, they were two ladies in their 70s, and I love it. Like, I, you know, we're, we're. We're trying to, you know, make the fans proud of, you know, their team, you know. And I think we've been very transparent in what we were doing. And, you know, and I think that helps us have respect, you know, from the fans. And I think it's an everyday thing.

I think the respect, you've got to earn that every day. But it was, I'm used to much younger male, you know, of interaction. So I didn't expect it. That's great stuff. That's awesome. You got anything else that? No, I think I'm good. You good?

I'm good. This has been really good. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, no problem. Thanks a lot more. Yeah. So, Andrew, I mean, we're looking out here on the ice.

We've got alumni, family. families, the kids out here. I mean, of your ex-teammates that you've seen here this weekend, who still looks good? Who's still got game? And Kyle's also asking by that, who doesn't?

Yes. Yeah, well, we were out there and I was like, we almost look too good right now because that's never a good thing in morning skate when you feel really good. But, I mean, wheels and Lits, like, they're both still look like they could play. Buff, he didn't go out there.

He's not taking, he's not going on the ice when he has to do. He took the option. And my guess is he'll be, his hands have never gone away. So, yeah, most guys, it's been fun to watch. Most guys have kept themselves in pretty good condition, which, as you know, can be tougher for some of us. Yes. Was there any doubt, like in your mind or other guys that Bufflin would come out for this this weekend?

Not in my mind. You know, I think there, we've gone him to Chicago. and he, like, Buff likes being around people that he cares about. I know there's a lot of people he cares about not only on this team, but in Winnipeg, and he enjoyed his time here. So one thing I know about that guy is he just loves having fun. And that's truly why he played hockey. And so he'll be have the biggest smile on his face tomorrow.

I always run, whenever I come back here and I think about him, were you playing the night that Mark Stone got hit here? No, I was gone. You were gone by then. I will never forget. That was the loudest noise I've ever heard in a hockey arena. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I saw that. It's funny, man. When he was in Prince George and I was with the Calgary Hitman, I would run around and try to just bury him the whole game. And after a while, I just stopped because I'm like, this is hurting me way more than it's hurting him. So Kyle was saying when we were walking over, you have, you do a lot of minor hockey stuff. and can you tell us a little bit about what you're involved in and what you're putting out there? Yeah, so I, we, well, I was playing actually.

So I guess to wind it back, when I was, I was in New York, and there was the year where they had the taxi squads, and I was in a weird spot with the Islanders, and they had the taxi squads, but I was making too much money to be on the taxi squad and actually be called up. Some weird, I don't know, at least that's what I was told. So I literally, I went in and I would text Lou after like at 10 o'clock at night and be like, hey, Lou, what time can I come in and skate and work out tomorrow? And he'd text me back.

And I would skated by my sophomore belt the whole year. Sometimes I get Dennis Seidenberg to come out and pass me some pucks. And I was working with a guy named Dan Leflare at the time who was like my performance coach. And we, he was like, hey, man, like, at the end of this year, like, I, you know, I think you'd be proud to, like, do more than just skate and work out the whole year and stay ready. So, like, what else would, like, give you purpose and meaning this year? And so I was like, yeah, like, my wife and I had been thinking a long time, like, hey, how do we, how do we have a bigger impact on mental health?

We both had, you know, our family members and ourselves to certain extent that have dealt with. to mental health stuff. And so what we really kind of were thinking of is like, hey, it's, it's, that space can be very reactive. So they wait until, you know, someone has a problem and then, hey, how do we help them then? So can, can we be more reactive in the space? And that was really the, the start of it. And, um, used that year to really get clear on like, hey, how do we want to support, uh,

mental health and, uh, in a, maybe a different way than, than most had, had, uh, up until now. So we did like a marketplace assessment to be like, hey, what's actually out there supporting kids in the space in sport? I wanted it to be a sport and quickly realized there wasn't anything really. A lot of school-based stuff, but nothing in sports. So we set out to create a program which supported kids' mental well-being in a proactive way. And what we settled on, and we found there's a lot of research that says if you can impact competence, confidence, confidence, character and connection that you give kids the best chance to thrive, which makes sense. So, you know, if you're, if you feel connected to a group, you know, and anyone can resonate

with this, like you feel good about yourself. If you're confident about what you're doing, like you feel good about yourself. And if, and if you act with character and be, and, you know, a lot of times you're proud of how you are showing up and acting, which you feel good about yourself. So it made a lot of sense to me. And we ended up creating a digital program for 10 to 12 hockey players that taught them those concepts through story. So we created these like five to seven minute fast-paced YouTube videos that kids get to watch. One of our stories is the Vegas Golden Knights and how they all, you know, the golden misfits that first year and how they all came together.

And no one wanted them. And they ended up going on to the Stanley Cup finals. So kids can connect with the connection that it took to create that group and why that's important to not only their success. but their success as a teen. And so there's a 10-week cadence of that. We had two seasons now, um,

content for both and the program's completely free. So that's probably a more long-winded answer than you wanted. No, but like, I think people like, when Kyle was telling me about this and credit to him, he, he was aware of it. But he was explaining it to me as we were walking over.

I was like, you know what? Like this is the kind of thing that, like that, that point you make about when you feel confident, you feel better, it is so true. Like I think 90% of life is between the years.

I really do. It transcends sports. Yeah. That's the beauty of it. Like it goes beyond that. Yeah, exactly. And everybody can resonate with not feeling like they're part of something or not feeling confident in whatever. Like we have, there's definitely things you're confident in as individuals and there's things that you're not confident.

Everybody can resonate with that in some aspect. So, yeah, it makes a lot of sense to me. And even, you know, like now I'm actually like a performance coach with a lot of, guys that play in the league and they're going to the same stuff that those 10 year old 12 year olds like those stories never go away and that the the confidence they're always struggling with and they struggle

how to how to fit into a group or how to connect with guys and and so it never really goes away so it really makes sense to me that hey if we start at that age we're giving those kids a much better chance to have success yeah well when I wanted to ask about that I mean because you've got three kids right that are kind of all in that window now in terms of U-sports where it really starts to ramp up. And we hear the blanket statement all the time now that U-sports has completely gone out of

control. Like we kind of lost the plot of the purpose of it all. Like when you see it up close, do you agree with that? Or there's still some things where you're seeing that suggests, you know, maybe there's alternative ways or the mindset is shifting a little bit about how to approach those critical years of a kid's life and how the parents are all involved in it all. Like, what do you see in from your vantage point? Yeah.

Yeah, it's, it's, I think the heart. thing is not following the crowd like because everybody is is is doing more is is trying to play at the highest level um they're on the ice all time and and so everyone gets sucked into that and you know you go talk to the i always tell us to my parents but like like like when when my year and in my last year in um Arizona even like at the end of my career like we never skated more than three We played in the best league in the world and we did not skate more than three days in a row. And you have kids that are skating twice a day or eight times a week. And I'm like at some point you're like Bert, you're not helping them.

And I'm a firm believer in like if you are enjoying what you're doing and you're having fun, you will work with it. As soon as that starts to become a job and feel like something you have to do, that's when that's when you get disconnected to why you're actually doing it every day. And like I said, like that happens at at this level. It happens with guys where they're like, hey, like, are you having fun doing this anymore? You show up and you enjoy doing what you're doing. There's a different energy. There's a different, you're showing up in a different way. And man, like, it makes me sad when we do that to kids, right?

Like, when we take the joy out of the game, because ultimately parents, they want the kids to have success. And the disconnect for me is like, hey, if they're not enjoying what they're doing, and yes, I'm a big advocate of like, hey, how do you, like, you show up and you, work hard and like we can hold them to those values and they can have fun like they're there doesn't have to be one or the other um so uh i think it's it's going against the the grain a little bit now and trying like that's what i've noticed to being a part of it like hey like we're not going to do we're not going to do more when my kids going to play baseball in the spring and summer and you know and they don't need to be on the ice and doing everything um and just have have confidence and i think I have a pretty good perspective

just because of my journey. Like I was, it was such a like, you know, when I was, when I was 16, I was playing Junior B and in Poco. Like I, I didn't, I didn't even think I had a sniff. And then two years later, or, you know, three years later, I'm playing, playing in the H-all and winning a Stanley Cup. So it's like, I, it's such a long game in terms of development

and kids develop at different times. And I think the one thing I, I remember from that is like, oh, like, I was, I loved the game enough to compete. and work at getting better. And that's what kept me progressing. Do you ever, as a sport, are you a good sports parent? Like, do you ever lose it in the stands or anything like that?

It's funny because, like, there are moments where I'm like, yeah, like, you feel that the like, oh, yeah, the competitive juices are coming up. And that's one thing I've gotten better at is, like, great. And I coach a lot. I try to stay out of the stands. I'm like, I coach because, A, like, I love control. and then B, I don't have to listen to anybody in the crowd when I coach.

But it is. Like you do feel like those competitive juices and it's you need, you need, and I talk to my coaches about this. So like even us helping each other like what are we actually committed to as coaches? And then how do we actually hold each other accountable to that? Because we're all going to get riled up. You know, you get riled up. And at the end of the day, our job is to help these kids, connect with these kids, help them get better. So if we're getting pissed off at them for something that they're doing at nine years old or 10 years old, that's on us because our job is to teach them and connect with them and help them get better.

And a lot of times, as adults, we have like, we miss, we think, oh, they should know how to do that already. And even if it was a parent, it's like, oh, they should know how to do that. And it's like, when you actually slow down and think about it, you're like, hey, no one's taught them how to do that yet. And it's your job to teach them how to do that. So. Good attitude. Yeah. Yeah, so it's been fun being in the research.

Like, there's a ton of research out there, which I always laugh because I'm like, there's a shit ton of research that says, hey, this is how you help kids. And everybody does the exact opposite. So we try to take that research and then, you know, and then use the leverage that we have and the influence that we have within the sport and the relationships that we have to get that message to kids. Because I think they listen and they will follow the leaders of our game. So, Andrew, I mean, you were.

one of the original faces of the Jets 2.0 and then he came back here and in 2011, you know what this market is all about as good as anybody. From your vantage point, what has it been like watching obviously what's gone on here in the summer and we're just coming a day removed from the Hala Buc situation finally being resolved now.

What did you think of all of it as you watched from the bird's eye view? Yeah. Yeah, it's not an ideal situation for either side. I think that's obviously how he decided to make a decision. And as a player, you know, as a former player, I can understand both sides of it. I can understand, I understand the emotions of the fan base that, you know, has one of the best goals in the world, if not the best goal in the world, say, hey, I don't want to play here anymore. I get that. That stings.

And I've also been on the other side of it as a player where, like, you have a team that's like, hey, I don't want you here anymore, right? So that stings too. So I think it's closure and being able to move on, like is nice for a hellie and the franchise. Ultimately, you want people that want to be here. You want people that are still invested. And if you wasn't still invested in Winnipeg, then great. Like, let's move on and get some pieces and then continue to build here.

So my hope is that they can do that now. I think one of the things the Jets were most worried about was it becoming like a tidal wave. Like we're, it's interesting we're talking about youth sports because this generation of NHLers is very different. They're more willing to use their leverage than any generation of player ever has. And just watching it as a proud jet and watching it as a player from outside, I'm curious what you think of all this. In regards to what? Just like the, like, I think that the Jets were worried, like, if one player goes and it doesn't work, then more are going to go. And we're seeing this all around the league.

Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic for sure. I think, yeah, I think you continue to invest in the people. And one thing that they do extremely well here is they, which I think is why it probably hurts so much is they invest so much in the relationship with the players. you know, and I know how much Mark cares about the players and I know how much Craig Heisinger cares about the players and Chevy.

So like, um, that, that, that stings, right, but, but you can't,

you can't change because of one, you know, a few things that are happening. And I think you continue to just invest in those people and, um, draft, you know, it'd be interesting to see a team start drafting a little differently.

But, uh, yeah, I'm not sure. It's, it's such a, it's such a new thing with, this generation. And like I said, it's, I also am of the mind that, like, hey, you know, as a

player, you can be treated. You're treated as a commodity. And it's easy to sit on the other side as a franchise and be like, hey, like, you can't do that. But I've also been on the other side of things where, you know, like, when I was here, my wife is eight months pregnant with two, two, a three-year-old and a two-year-old, and we got traded. I would have loved to have got, if they were going to trade me, I would have loved if they would have done it. you know, three or four months earlier. That didn't happen, right? As much as I wanted to, it didn't happen.

So there's, I think players are using the leverage that they have, which, again, that's the system we live in. So we can get mad at the system or, like, understand that, hey, that ultimately teams are going to do what's the best interest in them. And then players are starting to see, like, okay, well, we're going to do the same thing. So I don't know if there's an answer that comes right now, but definitely the landscape shifted. Well, I mean, it's amazing.

It's already over 10 years ago since the trade from year back to Chicago for you. I mean, over that time, how do you view it? Like, did it take time for the relationship between you and the organization to rebuild? Like, what was the aftermath like as you've kind of moved now into alumni and get into a position where you're embracing an opportunity, like being part of a weekend like this? Yeah, I think there's always, there's always a motion attached to those moments.

Anytime you spend a lot of time here, they're in a place and invest in the organization, the community. And at that point, you know, they've made attempts to resign me. And I think as a player, you have like, okay, there's a certain value that you have. And then they ended up signing a buff. And then I was sitting there without much communication after.

So I knew the writing was on the wall. I wish I would have communicated better. I think that's something that I've learned as a player. Like, yeah, I've like let your agent talk for you. And I was like, no, like I wish I would have had those conversations myself. Advocated for, you know, a higher level of communication on both parts. And I think that's on me. And I learned a lot.

So, yeah, there's, I don't, there's not repair. I think it, you know, but anytime someone's like, yeah, no, like we're going to move on. I think it, yeah, there it stinks for sure, right? Like, everyone's human. Anybody that tells you that it doesn't, it does. And that's part of being a part of the NHL. So when you actually sit back and be like, hey, like, again, like I'm talking about

with Helly and the Jets, like each party has a prerogative. And it made sense to me great. Like the Winnipeg Jacks were worried about their future and they decided to move on. Cool. And I got to choose not to accept. their last offer. So, like, if there's choices that they make and I make in those situations that, cool, I can, I can spend my time being pissed off about that.

But it's not going to change anything. So I think the longer you've been in the league, the more you understand that. And, yeah, there's no, I don't think since then there's been no repair needed. Like, I was, after a very short time after there, I was like, okay, yeah, like, you move on and appreciate the moments and time that you had and relationships that you have here, which were phenomenal. I remember when the Jets came back, Jets 2.0,

we did a piece with you. And I remember you and Brandy and in your, I think it was your condo at the time. Yeah. And you told a great story about you were in line, I think, at Tim Hortons, and you went to go pay, and the lady said that the person in front of you

had already paid your bill. Yeah. I love that story. I'm just, like, when you, You sit and you look at this arena. We're sitting in the ball. What are your favorite memories about being here? Yeah, there's a lot.

I mean, there's the first playoff game here and first whiteout. There was the first exhibition game when Buff created chaos in the first eight seconds. You know, and then there's the deeper memories of like, hey, like, you know, buff and wheels. that like we all had kids in the same time and spending like our kids' first birthdays together in those moments and we and wheels were talking the other day like our kids like

his kid was my kid's first first friend and you forget about things like that and just the people that that you got to be a part of and then what makes this place special is the people like it you know it's like that that moment in that

Tim Horton's line that that epitomizes what Winnipeg is all about and they take care of of each other. So when you moved here, the neighbors were, they were like, hey, how can we help out? When I was out of town, they would help my wife. So that's, when we left, it was like, oh, that

was the part that we missed, was a community and the people that we got to connect with here. Did you ever go ice fishing with Bufflin? I don't know. Actually, I didn't go with Buff. I went with Mark Stewart and it didn't go well. So maybe I should have gone with Buff.

With the wrong anglics. Yeah. Well, another one I want to ask about this didn't happen here, but early on in that first season back, one of the highest scoring games of the 21st century in Philly, a 9-8 games, crazy. Like you guys had a 5-1 lead, a 6-2 lead, and then you score the winner with just over a minute left. Yeah. I mean, 17 goals in the game we don't say often. Like, what stands out about that night? Oh, man, there was, there was some choice words from some coaches in between periods. I think that stands out that we could laugh about after. Yes. You saw him do a lap here before the Zamboni came out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, those are games like you can laugh about after when you're on the winning side of it.

It definitely probably stung Philly a little more than us. But you have those nights where just everything on one side seems to be going right and everything on the other side seems to be going wrong. But definitely, you know, when you can come away with that with like three or four points in a win, you're usually feeling okay about yourself as a player. Do your kids ever wear your cup rings? They have once. Okay, I was...

They put them on, took a picture, and then put it back in the safe, but yeah. I was wanting, because I saw Carolina's new ones, and they are spectacular. They are something. Those are unbelievable. But I made me think, like, do your kids ever play with yours? Are they interested in that kind of a thing? Yeah, they've, like, when I've showed them out, like, pulled them out to show people, they're getting interested. but I don't think it's something that they actively think about the whole lot.

Do they ever watch highlights of you or anything like that? They will watch, I was saying this last night. I think they like watching my fights. One of my last games that they ever watched in Arizona, Clayton Keller got, he's in Winnipeg now, or no, sorry, he's in Minnesota, a big Russian guy. Oh, Trennan. Trennan. Yeah.

Trennan buried Kells in the corner and was kind of like, and they, They were at this game, and so I went in and ended up fighting Trennan. And so since that moment, all they've been interested in is watching my fights on YouTube. So I'm sure their friends' parents enjoy that when they come over and decide to show all their buddies that their dad was fighting at some point. He's a tough guy. How'd you do? I did well. Yeah.

So that's why I'm okay talking about it because I did well. Otherwise, I wouldn't have brought it up. That's a great way to go about it. Did you keep much, like obviously the Stanley Cup brings are one thing, but did you keep much memorabilia from your career? Is there any prize possessions that you still have from your playing days in the house? Yeah, I mean, like, yeah, it's funny. Like, as you go along, there's so much stuff, right?

Yeah. It's like at first you keep everything, and then, you know, when we were in Chicago and we had the outdoor games and, you know, another hoodie. Stanley Cup pitchers and other pitchers. And so, yeah, I've kept all the jerseys. like any team that I ever played with jerseys I've collected sticks

from guys that I played with I tried to get one stick from guys that I played with and teams that I won with so there's a lot of cool things like you know Eric Stahl used his stick was illegal

so when we were playing Edmonton in game seven of the finals he mine I had the old like old like Chris Drury hook at that time I don't know how he used that thing but so he used my stick the last

period. Really? So I have that stay. I got him to sign that stick that he used in game seven of that game. So there's certain moments like that.

Wow. Yeah. So I got to ask, what was illegal about his stick? Yeah. So at that time, like they had the old sackick model. Yeah.

Which was, that was before they changed the curve regulations and it was illegal. So he wasn't going to, didn't want to take any chances in game seven at home. Oh. Like the sackic model that like, hundreds of thousands of kids would have used growing up.

It was illegal. It was not legal in the NHL at that time. Yeah. Which is crazy. Wow. I have no idea. Yeah. Yeah.

Wow. And did you think, like, were you surprised, like, no one knew about it or no one stick measured them or anything like that? I mean, it was close. Like, close enough. Yeah. Right. But so there was some that are obvious and it wasn't that obvious. So, but, I mean, he was worried about it enough to put it in the back in the rack.

That's a great story. Yeah. Yeah, you can't leave it. You could not leave anything to chance at that point. No, no. No, you don't want to be that guy. Oh, my gosh. The only thing I wanted to ask you, too,

like you mentioned, obviously, your ties to your years in Calgary with the Hitman. It's the last year of the Saddle Dome. Do you have any good memories of playing in that building? Yeah, lots. Oh, man, one stands out. We were playing Lethbridge in the playoffs my last year there. and the fun story is actually I think Jimmy Rutherford came to watch

so it was my I don't know if it was my draft here might have been my draft here or was the year after I got drafted but he I was coming down like the left side of the rank and Sieb stepped up on me and just smoked me and I have there's a picture of me coming off the ice and like just bloodied

like my visor caught me and I was I was bloody and I was bloody and I I came back and I scored an overtime in that building. So I came back, we was a big overtime win. And I think I had two overtime goals in that series. And I'm pretty sure that was during the lockout when we were getting, you know, 17,000 people come watch a playoff game when you're 18 years old, playing junior.

That's a pretty big step up from playing in Poco, Junior B in front of a couple hundred people. So, yeah, there's lots. It's such a cool, it's really the last of its kind left. So after this, players won't have anything to bitch about. It's the last standing. Last one for me, so you got the,

we're doing this hours before the alumni game against the Canadians. I've always wanted to know, like, what are the unwritten rules of alumni games? And do you guys play for anything? Like, is there anything at stake? Like, a money on the board or anything like that? No, I mean, the only one that I've played in is, we played in Carolina last year for a 20-year anniversary.

We played the NC State club team, which is a different animal because they're like, you know, they're serious. 17, 18-year-old, 19-year-old kids that are flying. And they want to wear a movie. And we know nowadays, like if you watch youth hockey, every kid can skate. Yeah, yeah.

So we were like, oh, man, and they had lost last year. Cam Ward, I was telling you guys, Cam Ward was on defense. so they had lost. So Wardo got punted back to goal. But it was a pretty serious, serious game. Mark Recky took a stick in the mouth, came off bleeding. So there was moments in that.

So I didn't see any unwritten rules in that came as much as I had hoped. My guess is there will be a little bit more leniency on this side. I'm hoping at least, but probably like no, I'm hoping no slap shots. Ron Hainesie was like, if I see Danny Markov wind up for a one-timer, he's like, I'm going to slash him in the back of legs. So we're hoping that it's pretty clean. And you're trying to keep your teeth. I got four new front teeth, trying to keep those out of the way. So you're trying not to engage in any way that you can take a sticker or a puck in the head.

Boy, I just watch, some of these guys can really still fire it, eh? Like you never lose the hands, I guess. Yeah, well, yeah. They stick around pretty good. It's amazing how much you lose them, though. There's days where I'm like, oh, man, I used to be able to do this. We'll get to see that tonight. That's awesome.

It should be a lot of fun. And congratulations on the BC Hockey Hall of Fame induction. Thanks a much. Yeah, I appreciate that. That was a lot of fun to be. It's funny, I didn't realize how big of a deal it was, which is I was kind of planning it off. And then I went through the night,

And I was like, oh, that was really meaningful. Cool. Kind of forget all the opportunity to like let people who helped get you where you were, the opportunity to like thank them and reminisce a little bit on what you've accomplished. It was pretty special. Awesome. Thanks so much for doing this. Yeah, my pleasure.

Thank you, Andrew. Thanks, guys. So our thanks once again to Martin and for Andrew for lending their time with us here on Saturday. We've actually been very fortunate shaping up weather-wise to be a terrific weekend here in Winnipeg, especially when it comes close to puck drop on Sunday. There shouldn't be really any delays, fingers crossed, of course. Knock on wood there. I know we've had a bit of wind here on Saturday,

pushing back the practice times for the Canadians and the Jets. But anyway, all part of the specialness of this event and being outdoors. So can't wait to get to Princess Auto Stadium, of course, for our panel with Ron and everybody, we'll be there for Saturday Night Hockey later tonight, and then back there for the Tim Horton's Heritage Classic on Sunday, between the Jets and the Canadians. as mentioned after the end of the Sheffledayoff interview, we will be back with you in earnest with a full breakdown of news and notes,

the thought line and the rest, Monday morning.