32 Thoughts: The Podcast - A Heavy Week in Manhattan

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman discuss the tumultuous ending for the Jacob Trouba-New York Rangers relationship. After, they unpack the Igor Shesterkin contract extension with those same Rangers (24:08). The fellas talk about Kevyn Adams' comments this week about how Buffalo isn't a destination for players (29:00) and discuss the Ottawa Senators and Brady Tkachuk rumours (41:29). Elliotte talks about Vancouver Canucks center JT Miller as he nears a return (47:53) before they get into Frank Nazar possibly debuting with the Chicago Blackhawks soon (50:21). The Final Thought  focuses on video review reform ideas from people in the league (54:00). Kyle and Elliotte answer your questions and respond to your voicemails in the Thought Line (1:00:47). In the final segment the guys set up what to expect from the BOG meetings this week (1:21:01).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailThis podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.  

Oh, you know what? Hold on. The door just knocked. I'll be right back. Well, there's the clinking. I hope he's being judged right now because he specifically asked for two glasses, but he's the only one in the room. I also think he's got his headphones in right now so we can hear him, that he can talk and acknowledge that we can hear him. That is the best. I feel like we're on an episode of Pranked where the guy's in the studio yeah that's right squawk like a chicken

ask him if you can launder his underwear awesome thank you so much take care I heard every word you said yes why didn't you squawk you know what I almost did just so you know I almost did I heard every word you said. Yes. Why didn't you squawk?

You know what? I almost did. Just so you know, I almost did. But I was like, it's going to be impossible to explain this guy why I just squawked. Squawk! Welcome to it. 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the GMC Sierra AT4X. Ramadi, Friedman, Bukaskis with you. Elliot, before we get started, I have a question.

Are you awake? Yes, I did a lot of sleeping on Sunday, but yes, now I am awake. And I'm excited because the Cobra is in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Now, you are too young to know who the Cobra is, or am I wrong? Do you know who the Cobra is? Yeah, Elliot, I know who the Cobra is. Dave Parker, right? Yes, Dave Parker, the Cobra, the MVP of the National League in 1978.

They were known as the Cobra because he had one of the best throwing arms from the outfield. known as the Cobra because he had one of the best throwing arms from the outfield. Just for an entire generation of young people, Dave Parker was one of the coolest guys in the sport, and they won the World Series in 1979. And when I met him once, when he was a hitting coach for the St. Louis Cardinals, really nice guy. When he was a hitting coach for the St. Louis Cardinals, really nice guy. He always say, never meet your heroes.

I was happy to meet that hero. And I should have had that name, especially considering he was great with the Pirates for a good chunk of his career, and I just came from Pittsburgh. But we are in Palm Beach, Florida now for the Board of Governors meetings taking place today, Monday Monday and Tuesday as well. So we're going to discuss what we expect, what could be all going on over the next few days down here a little bit later on in the pod. But we should probably start back in Manhattan, where we have spent a good chunk of time on the podcast the last couple of weeks discussing what was going on there. The dam finally burst

on Friday. Jacob Truba, the former Ranger captain, now an Anaheim Duck. When he spoke to the media after that all went down, he confirmed how it all played out. The whole idea of accept a trade or you're going to be put on waivers. It was interesting on Saturday, Ali, you talked about

all the different reactions you got from other players, agents, to how this shook down in New York. What was some of the most intriguing reaction that you got to all of this? So let's start there then. Let's start with that because there's the on ice, there's the week in Rangerland, there's what will be the outcome of all of this and what will be the repercussions so since you've gone down that road we'll go that way first so it may it may uh not surprise you to know uh young bukaskas that players don't talk to me that often like nobody likes to talk to me nobody does um you know so there's a lot of places we could go here with the Rangers Kyle but we'll start there uh since you mentioned it and yeah I mean like to be honest it's I don't get a lot of texts from players in season that are unsolicited um normally if anything happens it's me sending a note first and then

you know there's an exchange as it as is, but this was one of those where I was getting a lot of unsolicited ones and a couple of agents I was talking to throughout the day said that in terms of how much interest they get from their clients on one particular topic, that one was high. Like it was, they were all talking about what was going on with Truba, particularly in the morning when it had been reported and it turned out correctly that Truba was threatened with waivers if he didn't accept a deal. And so a lot of players were kind of talking about, hey, you know what, that could happen to me. And it's not only that this was happening with Truba, but he was the captain of a team, right? So because he has kind of an elevated status in a dressing room or in an organization, players look at it and say, well, if it happened to him, it certainly happened to me. So they were all talking about it. And it was interesting. Like, I think a lot of them really felt that if you have protection, which says you can't be traded somewhere,

why should a team that you're blocked from being traded to be able to claim you on waivers? And it's not like the Rangers broke any laws. What they did was perfectly legal. It was forceful. And we can all judge how harsh we think it is, but it was forceful. They applied the pressure to him, but they were perfectly within their rights. He did not have a no-move clause. He had a partial no-trade. And there's a lot of debates about it. There were some people who felt that it was Trouba's fault because he wasn't playing well.

There were some people who felt very strongly that other people in the league don't have any extra protection, like coaches or front office people. There were people who were saying there's others in the league that don't even have that much protection, whether they work in the front office or their training staff or their coaches so the fact that truba even gets some extra protection is enough and he doesn't deserve anymore and there were some players who felt uh very strongly that maybe what this should be a

conversation about is is the overall protection Should it change? Should players ask the players association to advocate for a different kind of protection instead of it being no trade and no move? Why don't we just have a thing where you can say, look, if you're willing to give me a 15 team, no trade clause, why don't we just make it that can't be moved to these 15 teams like a full no move clause it doesn't change but a partial instead of making it a partial no trade clause you make it a partial no move clause overall now i don't know if teams would want that you know the rangers used it to their advantage. You know, it's happened before. I tweet about a case with Todd Marchand where, and Brian Burke and Doug McClain were the GMs at

the time. And they've talked about this story about how in the Sergei Fedorov trade, Todd Marchand was supposed to be in it, but he blocked it because he had that protection. So the Blue Jackets put him on waivers and Anaheim claimed him, and it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to Todd Marchand. I was reminded, by the way, that no player was more fearless in adding management during contract negotiations or disputes than Todd Marchand was like he was oh yeah I heard a couple of stories about him uh on the on the weekend about what he was like like a couple players reached out and they said like there were when

he was with the oil because there were a lot of players that were in total fear of glenn saylor not that guy like he would he would not back down and you know he was a really great player but that worked out great for marshan he won a stanley cup in anaheim and i think he still lives there so that worked out really well you remember a couple years ago it happened with with Ryan McDonough and Tampa Bay. They were about to, he had a no trade clause. And after they lost the Stanley Cup in 2022, after winning two of them, they were threatened to put him on waivers. And he accepted a trade to Nashville instead.

And McDonough was really angry about it, but funny how the world works. He ended up back in Tampa Bay this year. Just things change. It's just a reminder that something might be the truth today, but it doesn't mean it's going to stay that truth forever. But I do think there are some players who are going to ask and say, should we change the style of protection, making it so that

if you have, say, a 15-team no-trade clause, it's, hey, these 15 teams, I can't go to them at all. And I'd be curious to see if there would be a willingness to do that in this upcoming CBA negotiation? Like, does that go anywhere? Does it change or does it stay the way it is? Because, you know, like I said, there were a lot of players who were kind of like, you know, and Trouba did turn down a trade to Columbus. That was the team on Friday morning that everybody was talking about because he had turned down a trade there the day before. And I think now Columbus has done really well and they won again on Sunday night.

If he had gone on waivers, I don't know that he would have made it all the way to Columbus, but that was the team that was definitely interested, had worked out something for him, and he knew the possibility was he was going to end up there. But do you think, Elliot, that's something that feasibly could be discussed, like the league side would really entertain? As you mentioned, there is precedent, but it's really rare that these types of situations would actually come up because more often than not, if a player is going to have some kind of trade protection, that's usually because they're a player that is a real asset or a value.

And so a team is not just going to want to give them up for nothing just to get the player or the contract off the books. Those situations seem so rare, even though you highlighted a few of them. I just, it seems like it would be a hard one to really make some progress with. I don't know if you have any feelings about that. I don't know if I agree with that, Kyle. I mean, you can negotiate whatever you want, right? It just comes down to how much it is a priority for some people. Like I said, this one, and you know, it's not

like I speak to 700 players. I don't think there's 700 people in the world who would want to talk to me. I don't speak to 700 players. So you never know if it's just a blip and it's just a small group, but judging from the amount of people that were reaching out or texting or conversations I had on Friday, it really was a hot button one. So it struck a nerve. There's no question about that. And we'll just see, like when the bargaining actually talks, do people just back off from it? Do they say, no, we want to talk about it? As you said, would the other side, the league, would they have any interest in that? Or then when it becomes part of a negotiation,

it can become, all right, we'll give you that, but what are you willing to give us? Then it becomes like a push-pull kind of thing. So it's one of those things that's hot today or this weekend, but you don't know how hot it will stay. In the moment, it wasn't just hot. It was scorching. It left some burns.

I'll say that much. Okay. So how did we get here then with New York? Because, I mean, as you have talked about, we've discussed, it was well understood going into this season that this was going to be the last one for Jacob Truba in New York. And, of course, there was the hope that that was understood, but it would allow this season to play out

and see where things go after this season comes to a conclusion. So how did we go from that to now in early December, the Rangers going, we are going to reach the finish line of this ordeal one way or another? Well, I mean, basically it came down to the fact that the Rangers didn't think they were very good or good enough. And I mean, look, I mean, they lost again on Sunday, like just a brutal defeat and they didn't have Shusterkin.

And basically every chance that Seattle had ended up in their net. You know, Quick's been very good um but they had a really rough day like that's the thing here with the rangers is that and you know i watched laviolette i watched his media conference after the game on sunday that was as annoyed and angry as i've seen him and i just get the sense that if you're laviolette and you're the Rangers, you're kind of hoping that, okay, it was shocking, it was a crazy week, but you got a win on Friday against the Penguins. You kind of think, okay, we're turning the page. And while they didn't play badly, they still lost.

And I think he was just hugely frustrated. I'm sure in his head, he's saying, okay, guys, like, we got to move on from this. There should be no hangover. We've all got to go now. We've got a season to play. So he's as frustrated as I've ever seen him after that game. But look, they weren't happy with the way it was going.

They wanted to get Shisterkin signed um truba like this is the thing like and i was talking about this with a lot of people truba is like people get judged it's a lot like eckman larson right you get judged not by how good a player you are or you aren't a lot of times you get judged by what your salary number is right like Ekman Larson at 8.5 people didn't like that but Ekman Larson in a lower number he looks really good you know people look at him very differently and I think Trouba because of the number he's at and the fact that he was struggling, it became a thing. And, you know, if he was making less money,

I don't think it would be anywhere near the same. But he's making a big number, and I will say this. You know, whether it was James Dolan or it was Chris Drury, the fact that they put him on the block or at least tried to last summer, if he didn't come back and play like a ton better, this was coming back. And that's what someone said to me, especially if it was Dolan. If James Dolan decides he wants something done, he's getting it done. And it didn't get done last summer, but the moment he looked at it this year and said,

it's not any better, if that's on his radar, even Glenn Sather, who was the GM there for a long time, he knew how to manage up with Dolan, but there are times, especially when that owner says, we're doing this, you're doing it, you're doing it. And I think we got to that point. And, you know, so that's how I think it got to where, like, I just think it got to the point of no return.

And they were looking at the way they were playing and they were looking at the things that they had to do, and they were saying to themselves, it's got to get done. And I'll say this, Kyle. That last week in Ranger history, someday it's going to be a documentary. Because there were so many rumors about what was going on there and who was available and who the Rangers talked to teams about. And, you know, part of the problem is

is that you can't be wrong. And some things get denied, but I'm not convinced they didn't happen. Like, I think there was a lot going on last week in Rangerland. I just can't prove some of them. And it was a high-stress week. It flows downhill, right?

It flows from ownership to jury on down. I think there were a lot of short fuses. I think it was a tense, tense, tense week. And then they work out- So like what size, what size of bag would you have needed to fit all of the things you had heard in properly? Well, it wasn't going on an airplane carry on, put it that way. Oh boy. Yeah. So don't buy the basic fare. that way.

Oh boy. Yeah. So don't buy the basic fare. No, no, you were, you were going to be checking a bag, but there, there, there was, there was a lot going on there anyway, you know, so then they get a deal for Truba with Columbus. He vetoes it. You know, I want to say this too about Detroit. Like, I heard the same thing that Kevin Weeks and Emily Kaplan did.

Like, I watched that interview, and it was Kevin Weeks and John Bucciaross with Trouba. And then, you know, Kevin and Emily had also reported Detroit together. And Kevin asked Trouba about Detroit. And Trouba says, also reported detroit together and kevin asked truba about detroit and truba says yeah obviously i thought about that i think someone should someone should maybe verify with the red wings if they were interested is anybody taking that route i did actually yep there you go you're hearing it here and i looked at that and i was like wow because i heard the same thing they did that detroit was in but truba seems to indicate they weren't and i'll say this i had some people say to me that detroit was never really in it that they couldn't and wouldn't do it like chris

drury was determined he was trading truba salary. He was not retaining. And I don't think Detroit was willing to do it if that was the case. That's what I heard after this was all over, that that was not going to be the Red Wings if it was Trouba at $8 million. But watching that live in the moment with John and Kevin, like, I was shocked. Anyway, the one thing I should have seen was Anaheim. And the reason I should have seen it sooner was that Trouba's represented by Kurt Overhart. That is four different Overhart clients now on the docks.

Cutter Goche, John Gibson, and we'll see how long that lasts, and Troy Terry. I think those two are kind of BFFs. I think they have a good relationship. And so I wasn't surprised at the end when it worked its way to the Ducks. And, you know, yeah, I mean, now they've got Minchukov who's not playing. Like, if you looked at their left side,

they've got guys who shoot left, Dumoulin, Fowler, Lacombe, Minchukov, and Zellweger. Like, they've got a really loaded D there and Trouba's a right shot so it's not exactly the same but like I heard that

Anaheim wanted Fowler in this deal and I would have no doubt that Fowler wanted to be in this deal I mean it's been out there. He wants to be traded. He wants to play for a contender. And for a time, I never heard Vetrano's name, but I did hear Fowler's. And obviously, at the end of the day, they couldn't get it done.

And I think one of the reasons is New York wanted the flexibility for both this year and next like they have a ton of cap room this year and next year you know fowler's at six and a half for another year i don't think they wanted that especially now with shisterkin getting the gigantic raze he got but i'm looking at that left side we know fowler's out there you know i'm sure they're not trading mitchukov or zellweger like that's their future left side. We know Fowler's out there. I'm sure they're not trading Minchukov or Zellweger. That's their future. But I can only imagine how frustrated Minchukov is with not playing right now. So you've got to think that that's going to open up something there. The Ducks are going to have to deal with that on some level.

All right. Anything else you want on this topic here, Elliot, the biggest story in the league here this last week? Well, there was, I got a note from Steve Warrior who used to work in the front office, the Florida Panthers. And he had an idea about waivers that I thought was really interesting. And he said, he made a good point. He said the teams that most often pop up in these lists are already at a disadvantage. And he said they shouldn't be prevented from leveraging outlier situations like this one

because they need help. And he said that maybe this is the kind he's kind of indicating that this is something that maybe the league could do to help these teams who are kind of caught in these nobody wants to come here situations and one of the ideas he came up with which i really liked is maybe what you can do is you can let teams monetize their waiver priority by swapping positions for the day. Like, for example, if let's just say for argument's sake, like last week, Chicago would have been the number one spot. Like, I don't know if they would have had interest in Trouba. You know what? Chicago might have. the number one spot. Like, I don't know if they would have had interest in Trouba. You know what?

Chicago might have. But let's just say they didn't. And there was another team that wanted to get Trouba, but they were lower on the waiver list. And they thought there were teams in front of them that wanted him too. Could you, would it not be, would you want to have a situation where you could quote unquote trade up on the waiver list to get somebody? I love it. I think it is a great idea. It's fantastic.

It'll probably never happen because it's too great an idea. But I love the idea. What would be the currency? Draft picks? Money? Yeah, whatever. You can trade whatever you want. I don't know about whatever you want.

Gold doubloons. I'm open to that. You could trade me six gold doubloons and you can get my waiver spot. Yeah, probably cash or a draft pick. Bits of string? Bits of string. 20 doll hairs instead of dollars. 20 doll hairs.

No, I mean, you could do whatever you want. You could trade cash, you could trade a pick. And therefore the non-block team steps in and makes the claim and the block team gets something of value. That's wild. That is out there. I love that. I love it.

It's great. Fantasy football comes to the NHL. No, I love the idea. I think it's great. So through all of that, Elliot, Igor Shosturkin signs his massive eight-year deal. Eleven and a half million per that'll kick in next season. The highest paid goaltender in the history of the NHL. He does not become the highest paid ranger.

Artemi Panarin still has him there by a hair. So through all of the Jacob Truba drama, how do the Rangers settle this with their number one cornerstone backstop? So I have no doubt that part of the PR strategy here was, we've had such a hellish week, we have to get Shusterkin done. We have to get shisterkin done we have to um there was another reporter who pointed out to me at one time that when brian leach left the rangers it got reported like the same day or the next day that they were hiring mike greer and it's not the same but it just kind

of shows the way the Rangers kind of think, uh-oh, this isn't good. Let's distract people with something shiny. And so that is what I think kind of happened here, is that things had picked up and the Rangers were like, we know what we're about to do. We know it's going to be ugly. Let's make people happy.

And they did. Shosturkin didn't play on Sunday. His wife was going into labor. But the Ranger fans were very excited that he is signed. And it is. And, you know, someone said he signed for 11-5. I said he left money on the table. And people were like, how much did you think he was going to get in the open market? It's not only about the open market.

I still think he could have gotten more than 11.5 from the Rangers. I do. But there was a tradeoff here. And that is, as you said, first of all, he's not the highest paidanger, but he got a massive deal and he got structure and he got protection. And I think in theory that there would, it would have been no problem for Shesterican to hold out for the third thing, which was the number one contract on the team, but he gave them that win.

He said, you're giving me the great structure, 85 million bonuses. It's a buyout proof contract. You're giving him the no structure, 85 million bonuses. It's a buyout proof contract. You're giving him the no move protection all the way through. And after what happened with Truba, he was getting the no move protection all the way through. And then at some point in time, you say, look, I've got just what everything I want. Let's, let's just get this done. And I think at the end, and Shostakovich wanted to be a ranger.

He like, as this was all going on, like the people who know him better than i do are like he's signing he doesn't want to be anywhere else and ultimately that was proven to be true he did it so the deal got done and you know it's a win for the rangers it's a win for shisterkin it's a win for the goalies like i don't know there's there's going to be too many more cases like this where a goalie is in line for this kind of a contract, but he definitely moves the bar. Like, this whole debate, do you pay goalies? Well, you do now. And the Rangers just did it.

So, you know, I can't fault anyone here. The Rangers needed this done. They needed some good news. They didn't want this situation. Like this year, if anything has proven even more, how valuable he is. The Rangers, by the way, they acted over the last week. They made Shesterkin's case for him. They looked at their record, which was 12, four and one at one point and said, we're not that good.

And the only reason our record looks like this is because of him and quick and so they made his case for him shisterkin stays where he wants to stay and the goalie union wins and um you know i mean it's over and you know the thing too about the rangers is they've got a lot of cap room this year like you know chris drury said on saturday he wants to let things settle down and kind of see how this plays out and i think that's the right strategy i mean we'll see how everybody reacts after the way they lost sunday but i think that's the right idea however all things said um they're gonna have the ability to do some things, and I think they're going to be out there to try and do them. Now we've just got to figure out who their targets are going to be.

Yes, and to the point you made earlier, I wonder how long a big MSG allows things, how much time they allow for things to settle before it's, okay, let's get going, and how else can we improve our team? Enough settling. Let's go. Enough settling. let's go enough settling let's go all right that was a heavy heavy week in manhattan meanwhile in western new york elliott the buffalo sabers so they've been going through it another couple of losses have piled up there was the ugly

one against colorado last week they lose to utah on saturday kevin adams the general manager spoke to the media on friday so he was hired in his role june of 2020 four and a half years ago and it feels like certainly there's been criticism along the way as they can have continued to not be a playoff team the The drought has gone on there in Buffalo, but it seems like for the first time there is some real doubts externally. The noise, call whatever you want. Is Kevin Adams the right guy to lead this team out of what they've been in for as long as they have?

And you could kind of feel that in how he was answering some of the questions. Very defensive, understandably, trying to paint the picture of he has tried to improve the team. Some of the moves that he has looked at trying to do hasn't been out there because other players have had trade protection and the Buffalo Sabres have been on those lists.

The one line that, of course, got all the headlines, Elliot, was we don't have palm trees, we have taxes in New York. A few weeks back, you'll remember when we discussed Barry Trotz in Nashville and he went on a local radio and the line that he gave and the reminder of you need to listen to the entirety of the answer of the quote to get the proper understanding of what he said. And in the case of Kevin Adams, though, that line got all the attention. There was more to it in the end. 100%. And I remember when Richard Petty ran Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, I asked him once, I remember I had a conversation with him once

about delivering messages. He liked to be out in front of the media he liked to be face first he liked to be the guy in charge and one thing that he would say is he was always very careful when he was delivering a message that he didn't include some line in there that sounded clever or really good in your head but would take away from everything else that you wanted to get out there and that's what happened here with kevin adams like you're right that that i forgot about that that trots clip in nashville like you nailed that um when you listen the whole quote it's very different but people get on that and they're like, they run with it.

And the palm trees thing, um, you know, there were inflatable ones in the crowd Saturday. I know. I know. And then there were people tweeting like that third Jersey that the Panthers wear with Sam Reinhardt wearing it with the palm trees on it. Like it was just one of those things where it just, it just all went sideways on Adams. Now, first of all, let's play the whole clip. Okay. Because I think when you play the whole clip, you realize that it's just one of those

situations where one thing he said just blasted the rest of his message. You have to earn it. I mean, look, for me, it's really simple. You become a perennial playoff team. You make the playoffs, you have a chance to win Stanley Cup year after year. You are on less teams, no trade less. We don't have palm trees. We have taxes in New York.

Those are real. And those are things you deal with. But, and trust me, there's, I mean, conversations every day. And there's a lot of players in this league that were on their list. So we need to earn the respect. And it starts with getting over the hump, getting in the playoffs, competing. And once you do that, I mean, look at the Bills. I mean, that would be a perfect example.

I would assume that this wasn't a destination or a place that a lot of people were signing up to when they were in a 17-year playoff drought. And they've done a phenomenal job over there. You get Josh Allen, and people are lining up because they have a chance to win the Super Bowl every year. And I think that's what we're working to build here okay so there's a lot to unpack here number one I think the deal he's talking about is Martin Natchez now Martin Natchez does not have no trade protection but one thing that he did and he did it with I think Columbus I think he did it with Winnipeg

and at the end of the day he did it with even Carolina too he said anybody can trade for me but I'm not signing with anyone past when I'm eligible for unrestricted free agency and so he signed with even Carolina for two years he told them I'm a UFA in two years I'm not signing past that. And everybody had to deal with that. And I think that's what Kevin Adams is referring to. He'll let me know if I'm wrong. Back when I covered the NBA, Kyle, I learned something about that league. that league. It didn't matter how good or bad the Lakers were. People wanted to play for them. It didn't matter how good or bad the Knicks were. People wanted to play for them. Even the Heat,

Miami Heat, an expansion team around 1990, is there now. It didn't matter how good or bad they were. People wanted to play for Miami. And some teams were bulletproof like that. Just because of where you were or what your history was or anything like that, climate, you name it, people were always going to want to play for you. And other teams, and the Raptors were like this you had to be good like the Raptors went from a team that no one wanted to play for this is exactly what Kevin's talking about with Josh Allen Vince Carter shows up he starts winning all the all-star votes he wins the dunk dunk contest. The Raptors are surging.

And a Hall of Famer, Akeem Olajuwon, is saying, yeah, if I'm going to leave Houston, I want to play for the Raptors. Like that was not happening pre-Vince Carter. And every sport is like that. Every sport has a team or two or three or four, whatever, that you are bulletproof whether you're good or bad people are going to want to play for you and other and other teams they have to work towards it like nothing that kevin adams said there was a lie and you know like, I'll tell you this. I've dealt with Kevin Adams for 20 years, I think now.

And like, he is a really easygoing guy. What I saw there, like, first of all, it would have killed me to do that press conference. to do that press conference like i like to come out and have to deliver that message part of me would have died inside to do that because i just like i never want to be the kind of person who gets out there and says that because in my life i am i always try i mean i could be as miserable as anyone else kyle on on a given day, but I refuse to live my life in a constant state of defeatism. I am like, whatever problems I have, I'm going to try to solve them. I am going to try to solve them. And I try to think optimistically. I just cannot do that. So like I see Adams right now and he is miserable because he knows his job is on the line.

He knows what's at stake. He wants to do something and he feels that he can't do it. And to be honest, I think it probably would have been better not to do it at all. it at all but he's a hundred percent right in what he's saying is that right now they can't convince guys to go there and the only way to convince guys to go there is to bust out and i think that was the biggest when i watched that media conference i had to watch it after because all the Truba stuff was going on. I, that was the thing I said.

I didn't, to be honest, like I, I didn't, I missed the palm trees thing the first time in the sense that I was listening to everything I was, he was saying. And I was like,

you're right. You're right. You're right. You're right. Um, but I was like, Oh my God, I don't know that anyone should say it.

Um, you know, I, I'll say this, like if I ran the Buffalo Sabres, there's only one thing that I would be asking myself. And some of this stuff predates Kevin Adams, but there's only one thing I would be asking myself. You know what that would be, Kyle? Uh, well, if people aren't coming to buffalo maybe why are they leaving that you're you're not bad you're kind of right there you're you're halfway there kyle as usual you have done 50 of the job um it is my question would be, why, after he left Buffalo, did Ryan O'Reilly win the consummate trophy in a Stanley Cup? Why, after he left Buffalo,

did Linus Allmark win a Vezina trophy? Why, after he left Buffalo, did Sam Reinhardt turn into a 57 goal scorer, one of the best two-way players in the league, this year proving it wasn't a fluke and become a lock for Team Canada? And why, after he left Buffalo, has Jack Eichel turned into one of the best players in the NHL?

That is the only question I'd be asking. Throw Brandon Montour in there too. Brandon Montour is another good one, a critical piece of a Stanley Cup champion. And that is, thank you for reminding me about him. Now you've done 60% of the job. That's the only thing that I am asking myself. That's the only thing that I'm asking myself. That's the only thing that matters.

And you have to be unwavering and unsparing in your internal debate about that question. Like there are times in your life you have to be really harsh on yourself. What did you do wrong and how are you going to fix it and i think the sabers are kind of at that point and there's nothing wrong with that i think they have to look hard internally and say you know what did we do wrong here and how do we fix it because i look at their team right now like they've got a ton of talent they have great young players there and i'm sure adams is is like the buffalo fans right now they're all over dylan cousins they're all over him and i do think teams have asked about cousins this year and if i'm adams and the sabers i'm

worried like is if we trade him does he become the next guy? And like I said, some of this stuff predates Adams. He inherited it. He didn't create it, but he inherited it. I think that's his primary goal is how do we stop it? That's the question I'd be asking. But, you know, going back to our original premise, I really felt like you did.

He got trapped on, what, five words? And they blew up the rest of his point. Totally agree with everything you said. It's one of the better points you've made in quite some time. And as you know, I love me the Green Bay Packers. Vince Lombardi has that great line. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

Yeah. I know you and I aren't going to get to the bottom of why it's continued to be this way for Buffalo, but it's a tough one for them to break out of, no question. Okay, Ottawa, Elliot, speaking of teams that are trying to break out of a lengthy playoff drought.

Big win against Nashville on Saturday, tough one against the Islanders Sunday night. That was quite the storm there in the nation's capital for a little bit too as all the tying it back into Jacob Truba, the rumors of Brady Kachuk that the Rangers were pursuing that Ian Mendez the head of PR with Ottawa put out a great post pouring cold water on any idea that Brady Kachuk could be on the move and as you pointed out on headline Saturday Elliot noise sometimes may just be something Ottawa and their fans have to deal with yes I think that's going to be this one.

Like, look, there was a wild one on Sunday about Dylan Larkin. Yeah. Was there ever? Someone said to me, that's not true. He hasn't demanded a trade. Like, that's crazy. And so, I mean, that's life now. It's not right, but it is the way it is.

People can put anything out there on social media. People do put anything out there on social media. And I think one of the things that's definitely happened over the last few months is that people trust what they see on social media more than they trust the mainstream media, which is a big problem for us because you can complain about it. You can say, maybe there's, you know, like I only look at myself in the mirror and say, if people are saying they trust that over, they trust me, I got to do a better job. So that's the way I look at it. But, you know, I mean, the Brady Kachuk thing,

You know, I mean, the Brady Kachuk thing, the Ottawa Sanders, to me, they seem really quietly confident that this is not going to be an issue. And I think they involve him in a lot of conversations, a lot of conversations like i i like i sometimes i like this like someone said to me once do you think when i said that on saturday someone said to me do you think that brady kachok is one of the most powerful players in the league in terms of how a franchise works with them and the input he has and i said it's a great question i said i don't know i don't know enough about it to know um but i do think they talk to him a lot and i do think his opinion is heard and you know the one thing someone else pointed to me on sunday was that when and part of it i think is just the whole quote-unquote chuck thing matthew left calgary so brady's gonna leave ottawa and number one it's unfair to brady but i get why it happens like people think these things happen

in osmosis and you know i will say this too there's there's a lot of people out there around the league rightly or wrongly who look at ottawa and if they don't make the playoffs again they're like is brady gonna be any different like the the Kachoks, they want to win. They're competitive as any family out there. Like they can say all they want about how confident they are or how good their relationship is. But if the team doesn't start making the playoffs, a Kachok is not going to want to be there. Okay.

And, you know, you can't do anything about that. You just have to deal with it. You have to win games and you have to prove that your belief in it is well-founded and you can't do it in the second week of December. You can only do it when the season's over. So, I mean, Ottawa, all they can do is win games and make sure the relationship is good. And if other people don't believe them, well, so what? There's nothing you can do about that. And you know, the thing is like that game on Sunday, that's what I call an unforgiven Kyle, unforgiven, great movie, Clint Eastwood, best picture, and there's a line in that movie,

deserves got nothing to do with it. They deserve to win that game on Sunday against the Islanders. Gave up 13 shots. It's got nothing to do with it. Yeah, it's got nothing to do with it. You win or you don't. And they lost. Got to win, and they deserve better,

but deserves got nothing to do with it. I'll say this, though. The other difference between Kachuk's situation in this case is Brady has three more years left on his contract. Matthew, when he told the Flames he wasn't staying, he was headed into the last year before unrestricted free agency. He was a year away from being able to choose his destination,

so he had a little bit more leverage. But if you're Ottawa, all you can do is say, hey, we're confident, we're going to ignore the noise. Nothing else you can do. Yeah, and I will say there is a sense that, you mentioned the word calm, it's much more of that around the noise. Nothing else you can do. Yeah. And I will say there is a sense that you mentioned the word calm. It's much more of that around the organization just in general nowadays, despite even a tough lost Sunday against the Islanders compared to a few weeks back when you definitely had a feeling that heart rates were operating at a much higher pace. Okay.

Now, what do you think? You're in Ottawa. What do you think of Kachuk do you think he wants to be there I do for now but I can also understand you know at a certain point as much as he'll always be a cheerleader for his bigger brother he wants to have a chance to do that too no one would be grudging for that but I believe he is committed every day of the week I heard a story like when he first got drafted there like his first training camp he's asking about different protocols of okay how can I get involved with certain things in the community and the team was like that's all great but let you know let's just worry about making the team here first and getting your career started we'll get to all of that but when it comes to things that, he has been as invested as any player. He's made him and his wife, and now they've got a young baby too. They've made that place, that city,

their home, certainly during the hockey season. There's nothing that suggests it would trend that way, but there's always that lingering unknown if things don't change results-wise on the ice. That's the way I look at it. Okay, Elliot, Vancouver, JT Miller, you said over the weekend with whatever's going on out there, this is not about trading JT Miller,

not about finding a new home for him. When he is ready to come back and play, it will be for Vancouver. Is there any further insight you can provide on the state of affairs with a player and team on the West Coast? The number one thing I think is that we're getting closer to his return. There's a certain protocol that's obviously being followed here. there's a certain protocol that's obviously being followed here they're getting closer to his return and both publicly and privately like Jim Rutherford has come out publicly and said we're not trading

this guy and he's annoyed at all the speculation he thinks it's wrong sometimes what's said publicly is not the same thing as what's said privately, but privately that's what they have indicated to people too. They're not trading them. Miller has not asked for a trade. And I think what Vancouver wants to do is, you know, Miller's been out. Demko's been out, although now he's getting close to starting. Forbert's been out, and I know they like Forbert a lot. I think they want to see their team with

everybody back. A, they want to see how's Miller doing after everything here, and what does our team look like on the ice and then i think they'll start making their decisions on where they're going and what everything looks like they just want to play they want to play they they lost to tampa they had a bit of a tough loss on sunday too their record has been really good against non-playoff teams, not so great against playoff teams,

but all you can do is beat who's on your schedule. And I think they look at it as we've kept our heads above water through a lot of craziness, and now we're going to see what we look like with everybody back. And then I think they'll figure out where to go from there that's the sense i get in vancouver you can never really calm the noise in vancouver just like we talked about with ottawa but i think they're very hopeful that the worst is over all right frank nazar and theawks. We mentioned that he's had a pretty good start to the year in Rockford under Anders Sorensen. He's now the interim coach with the big club.

So could Nazar be on his way up soon to follow? I heard it's coming. I heard he's going to get his chance. I think they're worried about too much being expected too soon. But I think he gets his chance. They put Joey Anderson on waivers on Sunday. We'll see if it's as soon as when Anderson clears, but I've heard that Nazar is coming to get his first taste

of the National Hockey League. All right, before we get to final thought, congratulations on Zajkopitar, 1,400 games. Yes, Kings look good. They sure do. How about the Tom Wilson interview Saturday night with Sean McKenzie? Poor Tom Wilson. You know, first of all, what did Logan Thompson say?

Like his face is so big or his head's so big you couldn't even notice the difference? Oh, you could notice. Oh, yes, you could. But this is one of those things that it was like, I've been there. Like, you're the ringside guy after the game, and, like, the Capitals are probably like, please don't ask for Wilson. Please don't ask for Wilson.

And you're like, oh, my God, I've got to ask for Wilson. Like, he scored two goals. He looks like he's hiding acorns in his mouth. Like, you know, you're just like, you can't not ask for him. And Wilson delivered, eh? Like, just in. Oh, so good. acorns in his mouth like you know you're just like you can't not ask for him and wilson delivered a like just in oh yeah my what my dad always says if you're not hurt you play like okay so i'm gonna play wow it was it was an incredible performance and you know i i know that uh there's always this debate about hockey players and things like that yeah uh i'm fine but i'll tell you this

if it was me i'd go out there too i'd play too oh my gosh let's pump the brakes are you kidding me if like if i if i was in his shoes and you said take that night off or go back and play i'd go play right but you're also the guy that said it would be worse if you got punched in the face with a glove on than bare knuckles. So I have trouble taking you at face value. Whatever the case is, glove on or off, I'd take the punch and just play. Okay. And those gloves hurt, man.

Yes. Yeah, they do. Especially if it's from a guy like Tom Wilson. But that was great. Especially, yeah, as you said, great question to Spencer Carvery pregame just about the added motivation for a guy like him, John Carlson, Logan Thompson. He was annoyed those guys didn't get picked, eh?

Yeah, for sure. You want to know what my theory is on Logan Thompson? What's that? He didn't like playing behind Aiden Hill before, so Team Canada wasn't dealing with that dynamic oh really yep that's my theory I'm sticking to it someone tell me I'm wrong by the way Kings five wins in a row stingy they don't allow much out there. Like that King Stanley Cup team had a lot more firepower. They had Carter, they had Gabrick, they had Kopitar in his prime,

Justin Williams, 2014 Consummate Trophy winner. But in terms of the way they lock it down, kind of similar. Not a lot of room out there. Grind time. And still without Drew Doughty. I think they've handed Minnesota two of their five regulation losses. Yes, they have. You are correct about that, Mr. Bukaskas.

Like they're not. Pump up from 60% effort. They're not sexy like the Lakers, but they grind you. Okay. That'll bring us to our final thought, which is brought to you by GMC. Elliot, there's been a few instances on this pod where you have, in an exasperated tone, conveyed that you were at a loss with video review, particularly when it comes to goalie interference.

But I understand you had some people in the game reach out to you about some ideas. So what are they? You know, I always appreciate this. You get surprised. Like people reach out and they say, what about this idea or what about that idea? And I really do appreciate it because often I don't think about these things. So I had one note from a coach, very successful in the NHL,

although he's not coaching right now. He sent me a note about video review. He said, each team is allotted three coaches challenges at the beginning of the season. They may be used at any time for any call that may be challenged get it right you maintain three get it wrong and you are down to two may cut down on the number of frivolous challenges and coaches may want those challenges down the stretch as the playoff races come down on the wire i think the number three is too low, but I like the idea. What if it's 10? You get 10 challenges at the beginning of the year. You keep it, you lose, you drop one. Or three a month.

Or three a month. You name it. That's interesting. They're like timeouts in football or, well, before Hawkeye took over tennis, like challenges in tennis. Yep. So that's one. I can get on board with that. All right. I like it. I like it. I like it. I like the ideas. Send me ideas. I like ideas. Send me ideas that will allow me to retire. Current NHL coach, the point of video review in the commissioner's own words is to overturn goals that are dead bleeping wrong, not to dissect every goal to see if offsides was by a centimeter or goalie interference is super close. Video review was put in for the big ones, matt duchene being offside that one time right you agree so far kyle okay so i like this idea a lot so give the refs situation room a time limit

similar to what the coaches have if they look at it and can't decide within set time, it isn't clear enough to overturn. It's not, as the commissioner says, dead bleeping wrong. I kind of like this idea. He also said he credited a certain video coach who I'm not going to name because then people start looking at these guys like, oh, you're the leaks. because then people start looking at these guys like, oh, you're the leaks. I would also take out the blue line camera. If you can't tell them from regular camera angles, then it isn't obvious enough.

I don't know. The more I thought about this one, the more it made sense to me. The timing one, I have an issue with the idea listen to his point listen to his point initially when i saw a time limit i was like yeah i don't like time limit get it right but he said the idea is and i've heard this from multiple people commissioner betman is change it if it's dead bleeping wrong. Let's just, if let me ask, let's say two minutes, Kyle, let's go with two minutes. If you can't tell in two minutes, doesn't it mean that the call isn't dead bleeping wrong?

Yeah. So, okay. So then which one's more important dead bleeping wrong, or just get it right. Cause we've heard that one at nauseam too. That's my only concern. I will say this. No, I understand what you're saying. my only concern. I will say this. No, I understand what you're saying.

You're right. I use the get it right one. The commissioner uses dead bleeping wrong, and I will tell you that the Department of Hockey Operations has used that to me before, dead bleeping wrong, and the officials have used that to me before, dead bleeping wrong. So I guess what it comes down to is what is the standard?

Is the standard get it right? Or is the standard dead bleeping wrong? Right. And so for things like offside, you could get to that point where you have a definitive answer. But with, again, goalie interference, there was so much more nuance. As this coach says, as this coach says, like there are some times it's like centimeters. I don't think you're giving this idea enough credit because I'll tell you this. At the beginning, I was like you.

I was kind of like a simpleton on this one. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized this makes a lot of sense. If the standard is dead bleeping wrong, shouldn't you know if it's dead bleeping wrong in two minutes yeah i guess but gosh there's still i can't believe you let me too far gone now without saying anything we're too far gone now because there's too many replay angles there's too many cameras someone even if time expires we're going we can't tell whether it's goalie interference or offside or not someone's gonna go through and go no look here it is that's how we dial it back you're not going backwards i don't know like like i told you i think it's too much

i open it up to all listeners tell me what you think tell us what you think I like the idea in theory but just in practice I struggle to see a path, that's my only thing so after all this we're at the same conclusion we were every other time

I'm making changes you are stuck in the mud. You are anti-progress. That's what it comes down to. No, I'm very pro-progress. I'm also a realist. You are against the Tesla. You are anti-progress.

Yeah, well, yeah. Tesla's a different thing, but I'm all for progress. Okay, well, that was the final thought. thought brought to you by GMC. We'll take our first break. When we come back, the thought life, you're listening to 32 thoughts, the podcast. Don't go anywhere. All right, it is time once again for the Thought Line. If you would like to submit your own questions, thoughts, ideas, 1-833-311-3232. The email is 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca.

And remember, if you want to come to the live show in Canmore in January, get your impressions of Elliot I into the Thoughtline as quick as possible. Frege. So I've got a question for you and the listeners of the Thoughtline. Okay? So I

woke up this morning. I had a message from a number I did not recognize and it said I changed a new number we haven't been in touch for a long time how have you been so immediately I looked at this with some skepticism but I did write back just in case you never know if this is an important contact in our business that you should respond to so i wrote who is this and i got this is the response i got kyle hey i'm celia do you still recognize me i have not yet responded to this text do you think this is a good idea or not to respond to this?

What do you think, Elliot? What do you think? Do you think Celia perhaps has an opportunity, a chance at something that would be life-changing my guess is no oh it would be life-changing but not in a good way I mean there's several different avenues it could go down but it would not be in a good way I have to say I have no recollection of anybody in my life with the name Celia so I just wanted to share that I've decided that I'm not going to pursue any further responses because I don't think it would be a good idea I can picture if you kept that conversation going you would appear on an episode of CBC marketplace a scam artist and there would be Elliot there just going I don't know I thought she said that we graduated high school together.

And next thing you know, I was $15,000 less rich. I got to tell you, if that's all I got away with, I would probably be pretty happy. Dom, once again, very helpful. Give it a shot, Elliot. You only live once. That's right. Ever the optimist. Good advice, Dom.

Good advice. All right. Back to the thought line. That was my opening thought. Should I respond to this conversation? All right. Well, you know what? If Celia writes into the thought line, now we're onto something. I'll give you that. If she submits a question about CAPS or convention, then I'm looking at this a little differently, but until then we'll begin with Brad. Hello, Elliot, Kyle, and Dom. My two sons and I were watching a game, Tampa versus Nashville. Both are huge Stamco's fans. And the youngest asks if a hockey player has ever been coached by their dad in an NHL game? Not knowing the answer, we said that's a great question for the 32 Thoughts podcast.

We routinely listen to the podcast on our trips to the rink, as we have two hockey players and both love listening to you guys. Thanks, gentlemen. Keep up the great work. Yes, Kyle. Recently. Recently. Correct. In Winnipeg, Adam Lowry and Dave Lowry is what came to my mind right away. The other one I remember off the top of my head was Kevin Dineen played for from Hartford to Philadelphia during the 1991-92 season in November 91. And Bill Dineen replaced that season. Paul Holmgren is coach of the Flyers.

Holmgren coached the first 24 games, and Dineen finished the season, and then the next year where Kevin still played. So off the top of my head, those are the two at the NHL level. The Lowrys, as Kyle mentioned, and the Dineens is the other one that I remember. And it doesn't quite fit the criteria,

but Kyle McClain of the Islanders, when he made his debut, and John McLean, his dad, was an assistant coach for the Islanders. Not the head coach. That's right. I forgot about that. Good call. Close enough.

I say close enough. Thank you, Elliot. And thank you, Brad, for the question. Okay. Cody in Winnipeg. Hello, gentlemen. On the pod last week you discussed a crackdown on tampering

what sort of powers would the league have when investigating such a case are players required to hand over their phones and emails can they access the microphones in these souvenir pucks that all agents certainly have in their offices or is it more or is it more of an interrogation

and back to the surveillance pucks again eh okay i hope that lives on forever or is it more of an interrogation and circumstantial evidence scenario if you're going to be giving out seven digit fines you probably want to have some pretty good proof they do have a lot of power um and you know one of the things that like i don't know exactly what happened but when shane pinto was going through his situation with ottawa and the league over the gambling accusations um the league had a lot of power for what it could ask for and put it this way it was explained to me that if you said no there would be very real consequences so i don't know exactly scientifically legally how to answer that but i have been told

the league has a lot of power in these investigations okay griff Griffin from Tampa. Hey, Kyle, Elliot, and Griffin, a fellow Griffin here. I'm a lifelong Florida Panthers fan now living in Tampa. Doesn't that suck? Oh, man. Last pod, it was the Jets fan now in Minnesota. Now it's the Panther fan in Tampa.

I wonder if this is the guy moved there for work or because he met someone. The things we do for love, Kyle. The things we do for love. And I really like Tampa. So even if you're a fan of the arrival, I would still put up with living there. You don't like Tampa.

You like Ybor City. I don't go there very often. I went there once with Arash Medani, and that was enough for a lifetime. Oh, my God. Arash Madani. Arash is a train wreck. Oh, man. Okay.

He's a fun guy. He is a fun guy. And he keeps it together. He's very fun. Yeah. All right. Griffin goes on to say, I really enjoyed the segment about retired jersey numbers

with consecutive draft picks. That's interesting. A lot of people didn't, especially on the same team. It made me wonder if Ekblad and Reinhardt would one day have their numbers retired in Florida. Of course, they were first and second overall in 2014. You pulled up some cool past examples, have their numbers retired in Florida? Of course, they were first and second overall in 2014. You pulled up some cool past examples,

but do you have any other future predictions in that same line of thought? P.S., don't mess with the triangle player. As a trumpet player, I sit in front of them in the back of the orchestra. They have all the power and a tiny metal weapon. Big fan of the pod. Keep up the great work. That's good.

You know what came to mind for me right away? What's that? And it wouldn't be a situation where they are having their numbers retired by the same team, but 2008, Stephen Stamkos, one, Drew Doughty, two. Yeah, that's an excellent one. That's an excellent one.

Stamkos and Doughty. I was thinking about Ekblad and Reinhardt. Ekblad I think could get his number retired. I don't know what the future holds. I think that it's going to be a real challenge for Florida and Ekblad to get a deal done. I don't know what the future holds. But especially now that they've won won I could see his number getting retired and Reinhardt you know winning his championship there and now he's signed long term I think it's hard to predict the future but at least I can see a path there I think I don't think it's a crazy suggestion or a ridiculous suggestion I'll put it that way I'm trying that like Stamko's dowdy but if you look at that draft too like you know take a look at the top draft like Petrangelo

four he could he could get his number retired in St. Louis too yeah you could get three of the top four picks in that draft and I would have thought like a couple years ago that

maybe it wouldn't happen for Petrangelo and St. Louis, but the way that Doug Armstrong has talked about it in the years later, I could see Armstrong and the Blues doing it. So you could get, like I said, three of the top four there. I got to tell you off the top of my head, I'm trying to think of situations where people back-to-back picks i'm sure some listeners out there will submit things but back-to-back picks same team yeah same team that becomes yeah that's a that's a so unique one and the reason why it's only happened once you know i'll say this like we were so the other night we were

working the wednesday of the of the four nations teams and we were talking about boston and you know that year they had 14 15 16 and who they could have drafted if you go back in that with the players that were available there, you could have seen a situation where that could have happened in Boston. Like you go back to the 2015 draft and Boston, sorry, it was 13, 14, 15. They took Zaborl, DeBrus, Sinishin. And right after that, you had Barzel, you had Connor. Not far away, there was Besser, there was Travis Konechny. There was an opportunity to do there. And it was funny,

we were talking on Boston, not doing what they could have done with those picks. And then you look at the years around it, where they drafted McAvoy, and where they drafted Pasternak. And it just shows you, you can miss one year but if you really hit it out of the park a couple other years it really sets up your team but you know I can't think of anyone off the top of my head but what I can think of is that was a situation where it could could have occurred Griffin fromin from tampa thank you for the question i'll say this actually let me sort of interrupt you but go ahead it's same draft they're on the same team now but it won't be a double number retirement ivan provorov and zach waransky seven and eight like zach waransky could get his number retired in columbus provorov wouldn Zach Wierenski, seven and eight. Like Zach Wierenski could get his number retired in

Columbus. Provorov wouldn't, but it's just interesting in that same draft we mentioned, seven, eight are now on the same team. Very good point. Griffin, thank you very much for that. Aaron writes in, hey guys, quick question regarding the school packages that CHL players receive. How long is that school package valid for? Let's say a random person who played in the OHL in the early 90s, and he says me, and did not utilize the school package. How long is it good for? Could someone say in their 50s now still take advantage of that? I only ask because many people have asked me the same question. Anywho, keep up the great work. So my understanding is, for someone in Aaron's case, it would not be valid. I believe

in the OHL, I know certainly in the WHL, there is an 18-month window after the conclusion of your overage season where you have to take advantage of the scholarship program that is offered with those leagues and enroll in post-secondary schooling somewhere. Obviously, that goes out the window if you sign an NHL contract, not if you only sign a minor league deal to play in the East Coast Hockey League or the American League. But yeah, 18 months, I believe, is the window when it comes to this stuff. I don't know if you hear anything different. No, I'll take your word for it. I know you have connections in very high CHL levels.

So I'm totally believing in what you have to say. The one thing I will add is that once I had a conversation with a major executive in the CHL about why don't you extend that for longer? Do you think that maybe some of the issues they had with unhappy players would be solved if you gave them a chance to have a bit of a longer run at a professional career, not like 10 years or anything, but a bit of a longer run at a professional career, like not like 10 years or anything, but a bit of a longer run at a professional career, live your dream and take a bigger shot at it

and then come back and go to school. Because to me, I don't think 18 months is enough, Kyle. I really don't. You know, I understand there are business reasons why they do this like I get it all I get the motivation but myself as a young person if I really wanted to give it a shot to play hockey I don't think 18 months is enough and this person said to me that the reason they won't change it is because the parents in a lot of cases want the players to make a decision faster if they're not on a quicker track to make an nhl level and you know what my response

to that was that is why teenagers hate their parents oh geez yeah that's why uh there are several reasons but that is one of them aaron thank you for writing in we'll wrap up with vinnie from burbank california dear kyle and elliot i am one of the biggest kings fans in the world but i am a big hockey fan in general i am in the eighth grade and just started to watch the full entirety of nhl entry drafts every year since 2022 i was wondering if you guys could name the number of seventh round draft picks in history that have cracked 700 career points if you want you can try and name them too i will say before you get started okay I went ahead and the good people at Sportsnet stats provided the answer here I'm starting to write down names okay how many are there six Okay. Now, now, now, hold on.

Hold on. Here's my first question. Is it only seventh round picks or does someone like Luke Robitaille, who was a later pick, but obviously beat that, does he count? Not for the purpose of this exercise we're staying with

seventh round picks because you're right there was a time where the draft went beyond seven rounds okay so there's six he was a number one number number one numbers one and two on my list are joe pavelski and henrik Zetterberg. Both are correct. They are two and three all-time in points. Was Pavel Datsouk a seventh-round pick, or was he a sixth-rounder or something like that? He was sixth. Okay, okay.

So it was Pavelski, Zetterberg, and Datsouk were the first ones I named, the first ones I thought of, so I got two out of three. So there's someone with more points than Pavelski, eh? Yep. the first ones I named, the first ones I thought of, so I got two out of three. So there's someone with more points than Pavelski, eh? Yep, over 1400 career points in fact. Really? He was a big star in Toronto for a good period of time.

Oh, Doug Gilmore, that's who that is. Okay. Yeah, thanks for that. So you got one, two, three. All right, so there's three more? Yep. I can tell you they don't jump to my head as quickly as Pavelski and Zetterberg do. That's right.

I remember Doug Gilmore was a great junior, and people didn't even know, people didn't have a lot of faith in him back then. But yeah, Doug Gilmore. Really? Just a size thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay okay so two of the players have nashville predator connections one very directly another one

not as obvious okay and the third player hails from Czechia. Is it Martin Erat? No, good guess. Because I think he was a seventh rounder. He was. 545 career points. Oh, I just missed. So I wasn't even insane for guessing him. No.

Wait a sec. So, wait a sec. I remember Andre Palat's not a seventh rounder, so I assume he doesn't have 700 career points. He's not on this list, no a sec. I remember Andre Palat's not a seventh rounder, so I assume he doesn't have 700 career points. He's not on this list, no. Okay. Okay. He was a seventh rounder, though.

Okay, how many career points does he have? 485. Okay, so. That's what this is taping. All right, come on. Feed him the puck, Jack. Come on, get him 215 more points. Come on.

So, as I say, one of these players heavily tied to the predators both the beginning of the franchise's existence and current day oh that's gotta be uh you gotta be uh trying to lead me to andrew burnett yes i am 733 career points nice all right so i'm right now i'm at four out of six, which is 67%, which was my, which is consistent with my high school average. So I'm going to stop there. Cause I, I honestly, I can't, I can't think of who the other, I can't, you said the other one was another predator and the other one was a check. Correct. Yep. I mean, I don't want to, I don't want 46 minutes of this pod

to be dead air of me thinking, so let's give it to me. Cliff Ronning. Oh, man, yeah. We could have been here all day. I wouldn't have gotten that one. When I think Cliff Ronning, I think Canucks first, and I think Blues second, so I would not have got that. It was not an obvious one, but I think he played, what,

four seasons there in Nashville? Oh, geez, that's long, eh? Okay. Finally, Robert Lang. Oh, man, I never would have got that. Heck of a player. I just never would have got it. Never.

Yeah. I'll take four. I'll live with four. Four out of six. Simplified a two out of three, and two out of three ain't bad. That's right. That's what Meatloaf once told me. Vinny, thank you for putting Elliot on the spot. Good question.

All right. That'll do it for today's edition of the Thought Line. Final time, 1-833-311-3232 is the phone number to call in and leave a voicemail, or you can send us an email at 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. Back to wrap up after this. You're listening to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Okay, welcome back elliot why don't we get into the reason why we are down here in florida for a couple of days the nhl board of governor meetings today monday and tuesday as well salary cap that was something that uh you talked about on this podcast extensively a few weeks back, the idea that it could be going up higher than what they initially projected a few months back at the last time

the Board of Governors got together. What would you say is the biggest talking point and could potentially have the most noise or most news around it heading into the next couple of days? I still think CBA is the thing, Kyle. I don't know if it will be specifically CAP, but still CBA. You'll remember the last time the Board of Governors met in the fall in New York City, the commissioner was admitting that they'll begin negotiations in the new year. And he also said that he was hopeful, or I don't know that hopeful is actually the right word. I would say wishing.

He wanted the possibility of being able to announce at the Stanley Cup final. The commissioner always does a State of the Union before game one of the Cup. So that says to me, like, first of all, there's nothing that's going to shut down the game this time. There's no issue that's that big that we should have a problem here. And he knows that, and the players know that. That's number one. Number two, I think, you know, it was funny. I was saying to some people the other day, like, can you paper it and write it? If you begin negotiating early in the new year, can you get it all done? And I had some people say if they just simply wanted to amend the current MOU or CBA, yes, they could.

And these are lawyers who make a lot of money stalling things. So they said it's not impossible. So we're in an optimistic phase, thank God. I think the cap next year, and whether it goes from the 92.5 to 95 or 96 or 97, that's part of this negotiation. And I think the reason that Bettman is throwing cold water on it is because he wants to make it part of this negotiation to get it done. Until it's done, it's not real to him. And I don't think he wants that out there as part of the news cycle so I think we'll get a CBA update here I don't think that we're going to get anything big about the cap aside from 92.5 he could surprise me but I think this is part of the

negotiation so I think I think CBA to, I'm not expecting expansion talk here. I think the CBA is the big one. You know, the other one here is I believe our employers are here, or at least they're supposed to be. You know, the Canadian TV deal is heading into its last year and the commissioner went on CNBC saying that negotiations are also going to begin in January and I also think that's going to be a big part like revenues are good you know the league is in really good health this is a whole other conversation Kyle but I think the only thing that's got anyone really concerned right now is regional tv simply because of all of the changes that are happening in our business

and with the way that consumers do things now, streaming more than cable, right? CNN in the States, big time. Yeah, big time. I think if there's something that has people concerned, it's that, but the overall picture is very, very healthy. But the overall picture is very, very healthy. And because of that, I think that he's going to make a new Canadian TV deal part of the CBA conversations and the revenue projections. So I do think that part of the equation will be a bigger story over the next few months. But, you know,

hey, Kyle, it's a tough one. Number one, we're in the middle of it. And number two, as I've said before, it's not like our employers talk to us about it. Right, right. No, they do not. All right. So stay tuned to see what comes out of Palm Beach over the next couple of days. Elliot, for hockey fans this week in Canada, some games to keep an eye on nationally. Tuesday night, the Oilers host the Lightning. That can be seen on Sportsnet 1, coast to coast, 9 Eastern, 7 Mountain Time.

Big game. Could be a fun game to watch, too. Scotiabank Wednesday night hockey this week at the Anaheim Ducks. And Jacob Truba, who are in the nation's capital to face the Senators. A pregame show gets underway 7 Eastern for Pacific. Game time just after 7 30 Eastern. Thank you very much for, hey listen, there's only so many hours in a day and we appreciate you spending a few of them with us once again. Have yourselves a great week. Elliot,

you can go work on your tan. Oh, yeah. I'm on it. We'll talk to you all again on Friday.