32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Adam Oates: Get The Toys Off The Ice

Episode Date: October 21, 2020

The Hockey Hall of Famer and skills coach joins Jeff and Elliotte to talk about the types of drills that frustrate him and what coaches should focus on when designing practices before offering some creative pointers. They also discuss coaching during the pandemic, some of the challenges around travel and the approach he has when […]

That was awesome. That's total geek out for me, guys. Thank you. Welcome once again to a special edition of 31 Thoughts, the podcast. Today, an interview with Adam Oates, Hockey Hall of Famer, trainer Elliot to the stars of hockey. And he has a little bit of a burr under his saddle this week. What gives? I have a bit of a burr under my saddle too, because every time I tried to steer his conversation towards his NHL clients, he knocked it away, like a good blocker save.

Toe drags, man. He was toe dragging you the whole interview. Yes, he skated circles around all my questions. But basically what happened was I was sitting around minding my own business like I normally am, and my phone rang and his name came up, hadn't spoken to him in a while i said hey adam how you doing and i i was immediately greeted with i have to come on the podcast he didn't say hello he didn't waste any time no greetings no normal human exchanges of pleasantries nothing like that cut away the crap right to it. He says, I have to come on your podcast. I said, anytime, any particular reason? He says, I saw this video on Instagram of a coach about to

teach his kids some drills and they were terrible. There was nothing in these drills that was hockey related that you would actually do in a game. because i am nothing if not and we are nothing if not citizens of the world trying to make uh young boys and girls children have a better time on the ice we opened up the platform uh we did so you come to this podcast for the instruction from hockey hall of famer adam oats but you stay for the inane stupid trivial questioning from me about hockey tape all this with adam oaks on 31 thoughts the podcast Okay, Adam Oates, Hockey Hall of Famer. We're recording this at 2.35 Eastern on Thursday afternoon. And later on this afternoon, between 5 and 6 Eastern,

my kid, who plays on the 2010 AAA Markham Waxers, your old team, the Markham Waxers, playing at your old rink, Markham Centennial Arena, practiced 5 to 6 as a parent in the stands. What drills should I tell the coach not to make my kid do? And should I go on the ice and pull him off the ice if I see him doing it? That's a very sensitive subject for me. Well, first of all, the answer is probably all of them.

You know what? I was actually talking to Elliot the other day about it. I would say that my biggest frustration out there when I watch, you know, when the rinks I go to, when I watch other practices, when I watch other sort of drills or skills people, or you go on Instagram and you watch all the skills people, the one thing that I would please ask everybody to think about is when you design a drill, when you design a drill you have to have in mind what is the hockey play in that drill where would a player's eyes be looking where would the puck be what direction is he going you know and i see out there and i like i look and and the first thing you got to tell all the parents

is my goal right now is to not work your kid out this is not about little Johnny or Susie coming out here to get a sweat I am actually trying to make them a better player so the first thing that I'm always looking for is concussions right okay and that's my biggest frustration is when I see props on the ice because the kid is just trying to go around the prop well that's not real that's not in a game a prop is not one object in the game I see for example I see someone put a net on the ice down the left side so someone comes down the left wing and cuts around the net to the middle to take a wrist shot well in a game you'd be cutting to the middle and there's a left defenseman

on the other side that's going to take your block off. So you are actually teaching them something that is incorrect. That is not a real hockey play. You don't have their eyes going in the right spot. Yeah, they might be going on the ice fast and cruising around the net, around the prop, but I get so frustrated because that is not real. That is not something that happens in our game. So what then are the props that you want off the ice? Because practices now, skill sessions are littered with props. Which ones do you want off the ice ASAP? You want, quite honestly, all of them. I personally can design drills for guys that happen in a game. When I go out on the ice with a Jack Eichel, before I go on the ice, I'll watch one of his last games and I'll see a situation that occurred in the game.

And did he protect the puck correctly? Did he see where his line mates were? Did he feel that player coming from a certain direction? Was he behind the net? When the puck is bouncing off the boards, did he approach the puck correctly? Did he anticipate what direction he had to go based on the bounce? So there's lots of little nuances that you're looking for that I'm trying to create in a game-like situation. And then with the player, I'm trying to teach the skill that applies to that particular situation. And that's why when it's a skill session, it's not a practice. You know, you need to do lots of reps, right? Because you got to play the bounce and the bounce is different every single time and how the player approaches the bounce is very

important. And, you know, so I can watch a tape, I can watch a situation that happens in a game and kind of come up with a drill based on that. You know, it would be easy for you to just say that's someone else's problem. Why are you so passionate about it? You know what? Because all the parents, all the kids are out there. They're trying, they're trying to get better. And I would, I would also say that I see all the coaches trying to do a good job.

I'm not mad at that at all. I'm just mad at you have to understand what is a successful hockey play. What is it? And you know what? We do play a violent game. That's a fact. So what is the right play to absorb that force, avoid that force, take a bump where it's not a big hit it's a bump and you know what I don't want to see kids get hurt so my first priority when any parent calls me is the child safety that is the first thing I'm looking for and then obviously when a guy who's a NHL caliber player or or a high caliber player I am looking for the flaws in their game I look for what they do well in the game but I'm also looking for the little tiny flaws, right? And where does that flaw show up? Because the one thing I would tell you guys

is we play in an arena with boards. So the dimensions of the game never change. So when I watch a player's video for three games, it shows up a lot. The same sort of good plays and the same sort of little tiny glitches show up a lot. And it's funny for like some of my amateur players, I'll send them a video from one of my players and they all love it. They like watching Jack, they like watching Cooch, they like watching, you know, all the good players, Connor, Shife, etc, etc. So they're always going to tell me, Connor, Shife, et cetera, et cetera. So they're always going to tell me, hey, send me some more. And I say, no, it's going to be the same video tomorrow because they do the same good things tomorrow. They do the same good things 40 games from now. That's why they're good. You need to watch that video and process it and

understand what are they doing. And I think when we were on the phone call last time, I talked about when my dad made me that video of Wayne Gretzky. My dad made me that tape when I went to college. I studied Gretz all summer. And I'm'm telling you guys for the longest time I couldn't figure out what I was seeing and I talked about it with my dad I'm like yeah dad okay great pass I saw it yeah okay and we just talked it back and forth to the longest time where it took me forever to understand oh wait a minute why was Gretz standing there how did Gretz already know the puck was going there and he was already making these decisions? So like it was like literally like we all know about Gretz that you know he

was the master chess player right like he was two steps ahead. Yeah he was and the great ones are because they control the puck so when when you can control the puck really well you can relax out there. It took me a long, long time to understand what was I seeing. So as I'm hearing you talk here about, you're going to get the same thing tomorrow. I think back to a famous quote from Bruce Lee who said, you know, I don't fear the man who does 10,000 kicks. I fear the man that's done one kick 10,000 times. Is that what we're getting at Adam? That's done one kick 10,000 times. Is that what we're getting at Adam? 100%. As sort of corny as that sounds,

the answer is yes. And that's actually one of the hard things for me is sometimes it's hard to come up with new stuff for the guys because it's the same stuff. Let's just perfect it. You know, like, yeah, we can work on our shot a little bit better.

We can, we can work on our passing a little bit better we can we can work on our passing a little bit better but at the end of the day when you watch a guy's game and a guy plays 20 minutes and he takes two shots that takes four seconds out of the 20 minutes what's he doing the other 19 minutes and 56 seconds you got to perfect everything right how do you train that how do you train that time in between? Because I'm a big believer. I always tell my kids this. It's important to watch entire hockey games,

not just the highlights. And a lot of kids watch the highlights and they think that hockey is a sprint game, a solo game. You pop the water ball and you have a big celebration. Those are the highlights that we see. And I always try to reinforce to my kids,

you need to watch plays rise and plays die and pucks die on player sticks and transition and all the quote unquote non-sexy stuff because that's the game. So how do you train that part of the game? Not just the, you know, one-timers from the dot. Well, you know what? If you ask all my guys, that is how we train. That really is how we train. Like when I work on shooting, I'm not working on shooting. I'm working on their footwork. I'm working on their ability to stick handle the puck, the ability to have the puck flow through their body because it's the game. Like you're dead right. What is it? And when you watch it, you watch any single goal, any single goal, and you back it up to when the play started from, say, the faceoff. Well, someone won the draw. Someone lost the draw. Someone bumped the guy correctly. Someone lost the bump.

Someone made a good pass or somebody fumbled the puck. So there's always to look at every single play from both sides. And what did that particular side do correctly? And what did this side do incorrectly? And when you sort of figure out how to watch plays like that, you can kind of come up with sort of like ways to prevent and ways to succeed on a given play. And that's quite honestly, that's what we do. You know what, if you're a right shot defenseman and you got to go back for a puck in your corner or your partner's corner, can you perfect that? Because the puck's bouncing. The puck's against the dasher. There's a guy chasing you. There's a guy on the other side. The goalie might get in your way. Where's your partner? Where's your options?

Well, you could spend a month doing that, that one play. So my job with the guys is to try and do that and make them not get bored of me doing that, right? That's sort of the hard part is, you know, the sexy part. You want to add a little sexy in every session so that it's, they get some fun out of the session as well, right? But most of the guys understand the process of what we're doing. Who are the best grinders? At that stuff? Yeah. I would say, well, I don't want to limit some of my guys, but I would say that I've probably got 20 guys that I talked to a lot. A lot. And I'll give you one goal that we all saw where Nikita Kucherov scored against the islanders with five seconds left yeah and john cooper went down the bench celebrating right

because it was a huge goal yeah huge goal here's ryan mcdonough back to the front of the net so when you watch that particular goal four seconds before he scored he made a fantastic pass in the slot two unbelievable chances before eventually the third one ends up in the back of the net Gord could save ourov Kucherov throws this puck To the front of the net Palat misses the net The Islanders have it

They turn it over And then the quick pass By McDonough Defenseman jumping in And Kucherov puts it into the back of the net So which was the better play? the pass or the actual goal? And I'll tell you right now, the pass was way harder than his goal. Why?

Because people are going to go look at this. So tell us why. Because he had a defenseman chasing him. The puck was stuck against the boards. He had to make a tight turn in a vulnerable spot, collect that puck, and see a guy in the slot and pass it to him. That was a really, really hard play. And then he had to take a little bump because he was in a vulnerable spot. Then he had to climb up the wall, make a tight turn, play the rebound, see it going around the far side.

wall make a tight turn play the rebound see it going around the far side then he had to see I believe McDonough see him open up and get himself ready for a crossbody one-timer and I'll tell you right now there's a lot of little skills in that seven second window hmm and you know what we work on that kind of stuff all our guys, every day. Because he had to go forehand, backhand, forehand. Turn his body to the forehand, make a pass, tight turn to the forehand. Then he had to open up backhand halfway and put on the brakes and be able to present himself for a little half crossbody one-timer. And there's a lot of skills and a lot of vision involved in that so we're talking about like the elite of the elite here adam like these are

you know players at the top of their game anywhere in the world do you have the same philosophy because you can break it down like you know youth hockey teens pros and then super elite like you're talking about nikita kucherov i, just one of the most highly skilled players in the world, period. Do you have the same philosophy going all the way down to kids that were born in 2014 that are playing hockey right now? For me personally, yes.

When I started playing, there was contact at five years old. Same. Right? So it wasn't obviously heavy contact, but you learned how to bump. You learned how to fall down. Right? Yep.

I have a few, I want to say five young girls that we work with. They have to learn to turn. They have to learn to turn both directions. They need to have to be able to go to their backhand. They need to be able to tight turn. They need to be able to skate straight, but they need to be able to tight turn. And you know what taking contact as a young man really helped us learn how to turn so turning is one of the most important things for me personally when i'm out there with the guys or girls

learn how to turn learn how to control the puck on a turn because you are probably turning into a blind spot right so so when do your eyes look? Sometimes your body turns before your eyes. Sometimes your eyes turn before your body, right? So the term head up is an inaccurate term. So that's another reason when I watch, I want to say power skaters. Well, they don't teach the kids to skid. Well, we skid 50 times a shift.

A shift. I skid 50 times. I don't ride my edges. I hate that term. Yeah, figure skaters use their edges. They never skid. And that's why a lot of figure skaters, well, they don't hold a stick. I can't skate without my stick.

It's part of my balance. Did I lose you guys? No, no, you saw him. Oh, sorry. Okay, quick note here. Adam is just switching over from his car Bluetooth to his phone. So he's going to sound a little bit different. Yeah, we got an echo.

Now back to me nerding out. 10-9-8-7-6-5-4. Now back to me nerding out. 10-9-8-7-6-5-4. So what you're talking about here is, for a lot of people, a complete redefinition of how kids are trained, right? From the root to the fruit, right? Because right now kids grow up and you do hear things like, oh, I'm going to work on edges today.

I've got, you know, pep training later on, PowerEdge Pro. I've got to do all these, and there's going to be props on the ice, etc. If you were taking a hockey player from the very beginning of him or her starting their hockey career, what would you do? Like for parents that are going to listen to this, whose kids are just starting or have maybe played for a couple of years, whatever the level, A, triple A, double, whatever it is, what would your advice be to them? How should they train? You know, I would say, I'm obviously trying to answer this very carefully

because I don't want to insult everybody out there. That's not the goal of this, because I'm sure that 75% of everything that everybody does to the younger kids is pretty good. You know, like your son or daughter has to learn how to skate. That's a fact. They got to learn how to control the puck. That's a fact. And you want to keep growing and doing it in the right direction. But when you do say skill training, we'll call it skill training, I would love for the instructors just to make sure when you watch, stop jumping over things. Stop doing tricks. Because, yeah, the tricks look cool on Instagram,

but that's all they are. They're tricks. They're not situations that happen in a real game. So instead of doing tricks, think about it a little more and try and get the kids to come up with something. And you can do it whether it's fast or slow. I'm not telling you how fast you have to do something, but make it more game situation. That's really all I'm really trying to say because I see too much tricks. It's like I said, you're putting a net in the middle of the ice and the kid's going around a net dragging a puck. That's ridiculous.

How much of this, Adam, in your estimation extends to off-ice training as well? There's no point in a hockey player doing curls, for example, in the gym. How much does this extend to the gym and off the ice? Well, you know what? It's sort of on the same level. Like, you know, you got to train, you got to be strong, but be careful. Because, you know, last time I checked, we have a hockey body. It's a unique body. You know, we all have big legs, but we have no calf muscles. It's weird that the calf doesn't develop because we're trapped in those boots. Right. And that's our body. So just understand that,

you know, like be careful about that. But in saying that we do have to train, but I tell you right now, I'm as strong right now as I was when I played. I'm a little fatter, but I'm strong. But at the end of the day,

you can't push me off the puck. You can't. I have leverage. So somehow can't. I have leverage. So somehow along the way, I learned leverage. I'm a lucky guy. Can you teach leverage? Can you teach that? I work on teaching leverage every day.

How do you do that? Anyone listening to this right now, specifically minor or youth hockey coaches or skills trainers are probably saying, how do you do that, Adam? I'll give you one really easy example. You got a defenseman in front of the net, and you have to go in front of the net and battle that guy

and pay attention to where the puck is. You are going to spin your butt into that guy, and that guy knows you're coming, so he's going to try and take you on. So he's going to get low and try and figure out a way to block you, fight you. So as I'm spinning into that guy, I am creating my leverage because, you know, obviously I was going to get cross-checked there and you can't buckle, you can't fall down. So you have to learn how, what parts of your body turn on as you're spinning into a guy to protect yourself. Yet you're getting cross-checked, you're getting bumped and you're watching the puck in the corner. You're watching the puck

go out to the point and you're battling for position, right? And you know, you look at every single NHL face-off when the puck drops, the two wingers on both sides have a moment in time where there's a little bit of leverage. One guy's trying to get out, one guy's sort of trying to prevent him. So it does happen a lot. You know, the ground forces that you create and learn from there, it's a very, very, very important priority in terms of growth. Is there something off ice that you can do to help that?

Like, is there an off ice drill for that? I would say yeah, for sure. I would say yeah. Okay, so let me go on another fishing trip here. I'm curious because this is sort of a lot of the things that I tell my kids when they're out there. Both my kids are forwards.

So one of the things that, you know, before they go, and I tend to try not to talk too much about hockey on the way to the rink or on the way back from the rink one of the things that, you know, before they go, and I tend to try not to talk too much about hockey on the way to the rink or on the way back from the rink at this point in their hockey lives. But the one thing I always reinforce them is the idea of giving out bad information when they're out there. It's a little test right before they go in. I go, TJ, what are you going to give out when you're on the ice? Bad information, dad. The idea being, if you want to pass it back to the

point, make sure you're looking low or looking somewhere else to distract, make people think you're doing one thing and then do another. How do you train something like that? Giving out bad info. The most important thing for a player is the ability to control the puck. And when you can control the puck, your eyes can go one direction and maybe you're thinking about passing in another direction, right? And that was in the old days, Gretz had eyes in the back of his head. Mario had eyes in the back of his head, right? Well, yeah, he did. But it's all based on control and misinformation and where the puck belongs in terms of, I would say most half- wall guys on a power play have that ability.

They have that control where they feel that penalty killing forward, trapping them, but they're really not trapped or the penalty killing D putting pressure on them, but they're really not under pressure. And that's a skill. I mean, at the end of the day, you're trying to develop a skill there. Uh, Jeff, I want to ask him about some of the stuff he's working on with nhl guys you got anything else on this particular topic that you want to add to i do and it's all selfish okay go ahead man okay well you know what call me privately on it jeff no i can do that i just want to ask you one more thing for the purposes

of the podcast one of the things that shooters have traditionally not done, and this has all changed now, is spent their offseason working on their craft. I know I'm painting with a wide brush here, but, and goaltenders always did. How much do you talk to your players about keeping up with how goalies are training right now? Like how much of an eye should they have on what are goaltending trends? What are they doing? How is their equipment helping them in ways that it wasn't before by way of simple things like, you know, the technology of the new pads and controlling rebounds

or corralling rebounds? How much do you talk to your players about what goaltenders are doing right now? I would say we talk about it, I wouldn't say a lot, but we do. And I would say that how I would phrase it would be when you're coming into a particular spot on the ice, do you align yourself correctly because you understand as a player how the goalie is going to play the puck for example puck's in the corner well the goalie is hugging the post so when you get that pass do you understand the principle of where the goalie's tracking the pass therefore where are you shifting your weight to be able to shoot the puck? Once again, we're talking about very deep stuff there.

And the good players already understand that principle. You know, I got to play with some great goal scorers. So I learned a lot off them on that. You know, like one of the things that playing with Brett, Brett would always tell me, can you pass it to me harder? And I'm sitting there going, well, well Holly I'm getting cross-checked by two guys in the corner it ain't quite that easy but he because he knew how to release a puck he wanted it as hard as I could give it to him because his release would beat the speed of the goalie which you know I mean like we're talking about a very few guys understood that principle

right and all the great goal scorers would you you know, like, uh, you know, I played with the cam, I played with Brendan Shanahan. They understood that stuff. They did. All right. So let's just talk a little bit about your, your NHL work this off season. First of all, because of COVID Adam, how different is it this year than normal? Uh, it's been very different.

It was a blast to watch the playoffs and for us to get through the playoffs and, you know, great hockey, great for everybody, great for Tampa. I just sent an email out to the guys because I'm in the States and I just went on a month tour and I've been able to service

all the guys in the States. Crossing the border, obviously right now, I'd have to quarantine for two weeks. So that makes it a little difficult. And other than that, we're sort of waiting for schedule. I will do that at some point to serve as the Canadian guys. But we're sort of on a, you know, wait and see every sort of day.

Are the rules changing per province? And we're kind of like living a little bit in limbo based on that. Now, because we don't know when next year is going to start you know the commissioner said the target date is january 1st and i think they would like that to happen but i don't know if anybody expects it to happen how does that affect everybody's training i think the guys are pretty good about it. They know that it's just changed. So instead of it being June and July for the guys that are out now, it's going to be October, November waiting for it. And that's sort of my attitude. And you know what? I think everybody's okay with that. You know, it's just definitely one of the things where we know something crazy is going on

in the world and everybody has adapted i guess my other question would be is there anything in particular people are asking for you to work on like i wonder if there's anything that happened in the bubble in terms of the way the games were played or things players noticed that they said adam i have to work on this honestly elliot when it comes to something like that we talk about stuff like that all the time, not just the playoffs. Like guys will talk about that with me all the time. And that's actually one of the funnest parts of the job is because everybody's got different skills. Everybody's got different personalities. And I really, really enjoy trying to work on it with each individual. work on it with each individual. Is there one trend that you've been able to observe in the past, I don't know,

season and a half, two seasons where you see, okay, this is, this is a spot. I guess this is further to Elliot's point that we need to work on or pay more attention to, you know, at face-offs.

I remember Crosby would always, would always go out of his way to mention this, you know, players, you know, what's the old line cheat with your feet at the draw. And then, you know, NHL rules try to take care of that. Is there a spot in the game right now where you say,

okay, this is a hot event here that might fly under a lot of people's radar, but needs more attention? The answer is, of course. I mean, that's sort of why business is what it is, but like, I do have my sort of starter kit and you know, I have mentioned it today. We're turning. Yeah. Can you turn both directions and then can you turn both directions with the puck?

And I would tell every single person to watch their son or daughter because you are turning into a blind spot. For example, like my stupid analogy is when you're driving the car, are you staring at the car in front of you or do you know where everybody is all around you? So you want to change lanes. Well, you better have sort of looked a few seconds ago. You're looking again, you're putting your turn signal out and you're moving over to the right or left and you should know how fast you're going and how fast that car is catching you from behind. And you still haven't lost sight of what's in front of you. So at the end of the day, there's a lot going on, but we're all used to it in our car, right? But on the ice, it's the same thing.

You're going fast. You're going slow. Where's everybody? Who's catching you from behind? Where's that defenseman? You got the puck. Is the puck under control? You're cutting left.

You're cutting right. You're putting on the brakes. You're getting a pass and turning around. There's a lot of stuff that has to go on with that. And you really don't need to look much past that you really don't because we have contact we have boards there's guys coming to get you there's guys hunting you down you've got some time you have no time these are all the little sort of things that show up on every single shift of every guy, forward or defense. As a rule then, on your skates, less cones and more bodies, more traffic out there?

Well, for me personally, at first we always do like a one-on-one because I want the guy to trust me. What are we working on? And depending on the caliber of player, I don't want to embarrass him. That's not the goal of the session, right? because not everybody controls the puck as good as they should not everybody does and and we have a long year guys have hiccups along the way so we work on controlling the biscuit and we work on turning with it and then as we progress i'll have a couple more guys on the ice and some of the drills will get a little bit more advanced based on that. Who is the player who maybe last year didn't end the way they wanted it to who's putting in the work?

Oh, I have a bunch of guys that do that. Elliot, give me one. Come on. Like throw us a bone here. We're letting you, we're letting you rant. We're letting you rant against terrible kids coaches like give us one player no no no no no because i said i tried to politically answer it correctly i think they do a 75 good job i'm not trying to insult them i'm just trying to get them

to think a little deeper that's all but no you know what that's part of our relationship with the guys it's private i understand they want to tell you that's their business. Yeah. That sucks, but I understand. I'm curious about what type of ice you prefer your practices on clean sheet or chewed up. I like a clean sheet personally, because when we work on stuff, the marks from their skates tell a story you know when i'm turning to my right my right skate skids and it skids a certain amount and i like clean sheets so we can look i can look at that it's like all everything a guy's

tape job tells a story the way the the marks on his stick tells a story. And then the marks we make into the ice tell a story. So I do like a clean sheet. So you would stop a session and say, let's look at the ice here? All the time. Really? Yep. Yeah.

Well, you want to turn like a Porsche. You don't want to turn like an 18-wheeler, right? Well, the marks tell a story. So what tells you a story about tape jobs? I'm a hockey stick fanatic. Oh, we know. Oh, we know. Yes.

So the tape job and the marks on a guy's blade tell a story. Do you have a rule where you like the puck on the blade, or does that matter for each player? No, no. It matters specifically all the time. Shooting. Yep. Passing. Yep. Deflecting. Stick handling. All of it? Oh, no. It matters specifically all the time. Shooting, passing, deflecting, all of it? Oh, yeah. Okay, so you have a white tape job. What do you want to see at the end of a period on that blade?

If you have a white tape job at the end of the period, I want to see marks covering both sides, the whole tape job. Okay, so you are using the full blade though. Correct. So it's not like you just have one area of the blade where you want to use. Correct. Sorry. I'm geeking out here, Elliot.

Sorry. I'll, I'll turn it back to you. I do find this. Like I do enjoy hearing people who love their craft, talk about their craft. I like that stuff. That's actually very, very important to me. It's like the tells are a tell, right? When I walk in a locker room, I look at a tape job.

I already know their flaws. So for your session, did you tell your guys to use white tape just so you could read the blade after? Absolutely. I love this, Elliot. Yeah. I get mad when I see guys and they don't retape their stack. How often? Every period?

Yes, every period. It's a feel, right? Like you're chasing your feel. The good players have a feel. They're constantly chasing their feel. And sometimes I have to change the feel a little bit, right? So that's why you have to put in some hard work. Awesome, man.

Heel to toe gathers no snow. That's what I was always taught about taping a stick. True or false? You know what? I've never heard that, but I like it. I tape my stick heel to toe. And I could say it's sort of one of the jokes with the guys, right? Because my tape job is skanky.

I don't necessarily, I don't use the scissors to trim it. And I don't care about it, right? And they always make fun of me. And I always go, well, isn't it funny how the puck sticks to my stick, eh, boys? Who, okay, let's try this one. I'm going to keep trying to dig for information. Of all your clients, who's the one you fight with the most in a fun way elliot you keep trying me to get that out yeah and i can't you're banned

but do i have some guys yes i do oh i i would think i would think absolutely you would because they're successful right they're nhlers and they're used to doing things a certain way. So you have to convince them that what you're going to tell them is going to really work. I could understand how guys would be, would battle you on. And you know what? Cause I know that too. I'm very sensitive to that for them. Therefore, that's part of like, where and when do we talk about certain things?

Right. And you know, and it's, it is? And it's a very important sort of subject. And that's part of them understanding that I know what they're talking about. That's part of the trust for me that they know that everything I suggest or we talk about has their best interest at heart. And once again, it's not just about shooting. It's not just about this subject. It's not just about that, right? It's about balance.

It's about protecting yourself and all. It's not just about that, right? It's about balance. It's about protecting yourself and all the little things that go with it. And I respect the fact, they're fantastic players, man. They're fantastic. So I have to be careful how I

present the subject to a player of that caliber. Okay, I've got one last question question and it's about tape again. I apologize. What's your thoughts on friction tape? Ooh, you know what? Cause when I came in the league,

obviously a lot of guys had that. Yeah. I really probably Jeff don't have a legitimate answer for you because I never used it. So I never understood it. I think back then it was sort of the tape at the time. And then obviously companies started making the tape that we use now. Right.

And friction sort of went away. Because I mean, listen, I'm nowhere near an elite hockey player, but I have heard this from other people too. And I have the same experience. It feels like the puck is on your blade more, but by the end of a period or two periods,

your blade feels really heavy. Like it absorbs water. Okay. I got you. Yeah. Is how I felt. And so I just went right back. Not that I'm anywhere near a good example for this conversation, but I just wonder if

there's any guys that, that still swear by friction tape. I don't know any, if there are. I don't think so either. I don't, but I don't know that for a fact. Elliot, any more for you? I'm trying to think of another question I can ask that I won't get an answer to. No, you know what? No, that's good boys. Cause actually that I really appreciate that. I kind of, I'm on the ice in 10 minutes anyways. Okay. I got to get my kid to practice.

Well, you know what? At the end of the day, people are out there. You want your kids to have fun. You want your kids to have better, you know, boys and girls, all they want to do is get better at what they're trying. And if we can help them with that, I'm all for that. And you know what? That's really all I want to accomplish with the call in terms of all the instructors out there, please, you know, you're, you're doing a 75% good job. Just, just understand a little bit in terms of don't make it tricks and tell the parents to relax.

I'm not trying to make your son have a sweat today. I'm trying to make him a better player and look at a hockey play. And is that a real hockey play? This has been great, Adam. Thanks so much for this, pal. Much appreciated. Guys. Thank you. I appreciate it. Who are you going on the ice with right now? Andrew Kopp. I can't believe we actually got an answer. I accomplished something in this interview.

Thanks, Adam. Thank you. Take care. Thanks, guys. Okay, I apologize, Elliot, if I geeked out a little bit too much about a lot of the hockey tape stuff.

But that's an interesting conversation with Adam Oates. And you can only ask that your instructor is as passionate and as fervent in his belief as Adam Oates is. Your thoughts on what we just heard from the Hall of Famer. I find this all very interesting. I'm looking at my bookshelf right now and I don't see the exact book,

but I know I bought a book several years ago from NBA players talking about their craft and i remember thinking that it's something that's really worth doing in an nhl perspective is people talking about their stick or people talking about the way they practice or players talking about uh how they go about things in their preparation on and off the ice, mental, you name it. So I don't know if I have as many good questions or nerdy questions as you do, but I see the value in the conversation. The problem with it is, and I can understand

where Adam and other skills instructors may be hesitant just to come up and give up all their information is, I mean, that's a really competitive business right now, Elliot, at every single level. Like, listen, both my kids have, you know, skills instructors, skating is like, and everybody does. Like if your son or daughter is playing at a high level, like that's sort of part of the program now, like it has become more and more intensely competitive where Adam works and how Adam works with players than it ever has before. So as much as, you know, we'd all love to be able to go to our, you know, go to our

bookshelf or go to YouTube or go to a video that we purchased and access all this information. This is all kind of like, I don't know, for age, like state secrets for a lot of these trainers. Yeah. It's not very fun, is it? No, it's not fun because we want stuff for free and we just want to learn and we don't know, free. It's like state secrets for a lot of these trainers. Yeah, it's not very fun, is it? No, it's not fun because we want stuff for free and we just want to learn and we don't want to make it too hard to do so.

Exposure, give it away. Just like we were told when we first started. Yeah, it's all free. Here, just take it. Grab it off the tree in the backyard. I know we said it last week, but this week we mean it. We're taking a break

and we're going to be off for a few weeks, but we have a couple of big things in store,iot uh namely man you opened up this one because i've got tons of dms already and thank you to everyone who has sent these in we will do an entire podcast just on word association elliot how much booze are you going to have to consume to get through two hours of word association well it's going to be done at night there's no question about that and i'm already starting to stock up it was funny i saw a tweet from michael russo does a great job covering the wild for the athletic he said he heard me pouring my second glass of scotch so if that podcast took only two glasses

i'm betting two hours of word association it's going to be a lot more than that yeah you're going to be a puddle by the end we'll get you off the podcast with a soup ladle uh okay so stand by for that in about i don't know a month and a half two months whenever we come back uh but you'll be you'll be rest assured we'll let you know when that is thanks as always for stopping by the podcast. Thanks for the download. Thanks for the attention. Thanks for the feedback and bringing you something different as we wrap up another episode. Sean Hall

is part of the acclaimed blues duo The Harpoonist and The Axe Murderer. Great name. Earlier this year, he brought together three musical friends who had never met one another and created a six song EP called Satellite Man. From that experimental record here's ballet in a phone booth by satellite and the harpoonist 31 thoughts the podcast breaking news

jeff no vacation yet one more pod chicago blackhawks gm stan bowman on friday on Friday. I'm sorry, sorry dear So soon for the night Cause we're flying by, but it's in the field So pull the curtain tight Put it tight, put it tight, put it tight All of the days are gone Your head is sinking down, down from all the rain Thinking you're bulletproof, you're not between the chains White speakers blasted, sonic yellow tube

You sit there deafenedly, butchers on the stoop Well, there comes the resort deal So sit for the night Those who fly might go to the field So put your stuff tight, tight, tight, tight Pooch is out. That was awesome.