32 Thoughts: The Podcast - And Then There Were None. Everyone is Signed!

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

The season is underway and the 32 Thoughts podcast is back for its fifth season! Jeff and Elliotte give their thoughts on the first few days of action (37:00), break down the Nick Suzuki contract (10:15) along with Ryan Pulock’s deal with the Islanders (31:20), Senators signing Brady Tkachuk (00:01), chat about Alexander Ovechkin’s season opener (23:30), the Bruins and Charlie McAvoy (13:30) and the Predators signing Mattias Ekholm to a 4-year contract (27:30). The guys also chat about the Adam Schefter email situation (40:00) controversy and answer some of your emails (51:00). New Podcast Intro Music by Jane’s Party. Thank you to Zach, Tom, Devon and Jeff for composing this season’s intro music. You can find their full discography here Music Outro: Woody and Jeremy- Be There Listen to more tracks by Woody and Jeremy here This podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman. Audio Credits: Fox Sports Radio, Mass Mutual, Sportsnet and WJFK-FM The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

I gotta get a kid to hockey. Love to stay and chat. Jeff, I'm going to ponder that, ponder that, ponder that for a second. Love to stay and chat. Purple Lagoon. Which starts with cowbell. Elliot, I want to start today's edition of 32 Thoughts to Podcast by reading an email because now we have an email address which, thankfully, a lot of people are using. thoughts at sportsnet.ca. This comes to us from Dalton Mauer.

Okay. Stanley cup habits. That's all. Thank you, Dalton for that very thoughtful email. We appreciate it. We'll try to work in a Stanley cup habits into our conversation as, as much as possible.

It doesn't bother me. You, you think this is going to bother me? It doesn't. Eventually it will. No. Don't worry. By U.S. Thanksgiving.

Dalton, you have to understand, I have gotten used to all of Jeff's weirdness and his strangeness and the fact that we look at the sport very differently. It's okay. This stuff doesn't bother me. By the way, I'd like to say that i just finished a peloton and i'm doing this podcast unshowered ah i can smell you from here elliot i think we can all

smell you but uh that is good see that's good stanley cup habits so you're taking care of yourself you know you're breaking news breaking stories the brady kachuk was the latest one but you're still finding time to take care of yourself? I can't take credit for Brady Kachuk. Bruce Garriock had that one first, so I can't take credit for that one. You know, sometimes you go to the podium, though, after a game unshowered. So let's look at it like that.

OK, very well. We're going to get some emails in a little bit later on in the podcast. Thank you so much for everyone who contributed. There's some good ones, some funny ones, some thoughtful ones.

We'll try to give you some, you know, creative and thoughtful answers. We'll do our give you some creative and thoughtful answers. We'll do our best anyway. The latest news as we record this podcast Thursday afternoon. Yeah, let's get to Brady Kachuk. So seven years, $57.5 million. This is a whopper.

This is a big number for Brady Kachuk. It's almost like I look at this contract, Elliot, and I say to myself, this is a contract that's going to age very well in that by the time the contract is over, you'll say, yeah, you know what? That's good money for Brady Kachuk, even though it might seem like there's too much sugar in the coffee early. How do you see this deal? Well, first of all, the senators deserve credit for sticking to their guns. They wanted seven, eight years. Kachuk had made it clear he only wanted three. And I was one of the people who felt that the Senators should gamble on their future. The risk the Senators were running was, what happened if the deal wasn't done by today?

What happens if Brady Kachuk doesn't change his mind? Because once you tell a player that you're not going to change your position, and therefore the player is going to miss games that's where you really risk the relationship going poorly and what i understand is the senators had to sell to kachuk look we know our history and i don't think this is about the hockey direction of the franchise it's just purely the overall ownership level direction of the franchise and they had to say look we know our history you know our history our fans know our history this is our group and we're going to make it work with this group and we're going to commit to this group.

And once they were able to settle his mind and look, he loves DJ Smith. They've extended DJ Smith. They've extended Batherson next. I think they're going to take a deep breath now and just relax. And eventually they'll have to get to Norris. Shabbat is there. Eventually they'll have to get to Stutzla too. I think that they sat down with him, or his agents at least anyway, and just they convinced him that this is going to work long term. And it's a big victory for the Senators. It's a big victory for their fans. It's a big victory for Kachuk because he's signed. But I think that is what had to seal it.

I think at the end of the day, they were able to sell to Chuck on, this is going to work here. This group that you are happy with, it's going to stay together. In a lot of ways, whether it's negotiations over the CBA or contract negotiations, the term deadline hunter is sometimes used as a pejorative. Oh, this guy's a deadline hunter. There's no point in talkingative oh this guy's a deadline hunter there's no point in talking now he's not going to do anything until the deadline i still maintain you know pretty much everybody is a deadline hunter that's a huge pressure point was this a situation where where both sides were deadline hunting that the big pressure point was hey we're

opening up the season on thursday night against the Maple Leafs. We need to have a deal done today. I just think everybody knew here that if it didn't get done by today, it could turn really poorly. Unless the player is saying, I don't want to be there. I don't want to play there. Trade me right freaking now. Anytime you take a player out of games or say you can't reach a deal so the player misses games that is the thing the player wants the most brady kachok wants to play hockey he doesn't want to be in a contract dispute with the ice. And anytime he feels, whether rightly or wrongly,

anytime he feels that you're taking it away from him, that's when it goes badly. And the Senators knew that, and he knew that. One other thing about the Kachuk contract that's interesting is if you look at the breakdown, the first three years, it's four, six and a half and 10 and a half in base salary. So it's basically a $21 million deal. It's three times seven, which is what Kachok would probably be around if he got a bridge. If you look at the Pedersen deal,

it's low, mid, then heavy at the end. So it's almost like this is two deals. It's a three times seven deal. And then it's the last four years are 36 and a half. So it's almost like a three times seven deal and a four times nine plus deal. And it kind of makes sense, the structure of it, when you look at it. Like I said, and like I said the last week, if I was the Ottawa Senators, I might have bent. I give them credit for saying,

we're not bending, but we're going to convince you. And that's what happened here. Like I said, I think Brady Kachuk wants to be an Ottawa Senator. I think he wants to play for that team. I think he likes those players. He has been convinced that this is a place I want to be an Ottawa Senator. I think he wants to play for that team. I think he likes those players. He has been convinced that this is a place I want to be. And the Senators use that knowledge to convince him to sign long-term.

This is a real shot in the arm contract for the Ottawa Senators themselves. I mean, Thomas Chabot was a shot in the arm contract as well. We talk about players that, Zach Borenski might be a really good example. As the Columbus Blue Jackets had an exodus of players, the latest being Seth Jones, Zach Wierenski signed and that contract was an indication that this guy is staying.

I see the same with the Brady Kachuk deal. I saw the same thing with the Thomas Chabot deal. We'll see what happens with subsequent deals. You mentioned Norris, you mentioned Stutzla as well. When you start to project out, and there's still some issues on the blue line, still some issues with net mining, but as you start to project out, as players start to sign and you start to see what this forward group is going to look like for the Ottawa Senators, where are you at on their winning cycle? This know, this is the timeframe where, you know, Eugene Melnick once famously said, you know,

I'm going to be spending to the cap when we're in our winning cycle, our Stanley Cup years, et cetera. Where do you see the Ottawa Senators now that Brady Kachuk is wrapped up on their winning cycle? Where are they? Well, I think they're trending upwards. Now we've got a goaltending question, right? Anton Forsberg going to play game one because Matt Murray is not well,

and you hope that Matt Murray gets healthy. Like, they're on the way, right? What you want, remember what Jack Hughes told us? I want to be playing meaningful games at the end of the season. I think that's what you want for Ottawa. Like, I could just sense that the Ottawa Senators fans, and there's a couple I communicate with on DMs, they were so excited today and by the way you know we talked about this on the the Jeff Merrick

show with Jeff Merrick hosted by Jeff Merrick today trademark Jeff Merrick if he shows up in that building and this is going to drop Friday morning and if he plays we're going to update this but as we sit here at three o'clock on Thursday afternoon, if he shows up in that building tonight, what are the chances he plays in that game? So understand, all of you out there are listening to this podcast on Friday morning after the game. Jeff and I are making this prediction four hours before the game. I am saying if he shows up there it's gonna be really tough

not to put him in the lineup but who do we know that can make the call to not play him who's really tough yeah dj's like there's nobody's telling dj smith what to do that is for sure no but even he on going to look at this guy and say, go suit up. Like some part of him is going to be saying that. Ah, go grab your stuff, kid. Ah, get in there, you crazy kid. I know that there's a part of DJ that would think that too.

You don't think Brady Kachuk's thinking that? Of course he is. Of course, you don't think he's going to the rinks thinking like, oh man, I wish I could play tonight. All players think like that. Andady kachuk absolutely can you imagine what that's going to do to your fans tonight if he comes shooting out of the tunnel pro wrestling dude it's pro wrestling it's totally pro wrestling yeah it's completely pro wrestling and the cherry on top is if he comes out with a c on the sweater. They've already got it stitched.

Boom. Boom, boom, boom. I'm just saying, if he shows up there tonight, it's going to be awfully tough not to put him in the game. Listen, this is an entire week of deals around the NHL. We can probably get a couple of thoughts here on the Nick Suzuki deal with the Montreal Canadiens, the Matthias Ekholm deal with the National Predators, Ryan Pulak deal with the New Canadiens, the Mathias Ekholm deal with the National Predators, Ryan Pulak deal with the New York Islanders. Any of these sort of grab you out of the blood?

We still, there's a, we believe an impending Charlie McEvoy deal, which could be just a whopper of a deal. Which of these proposed deals, either actualized or existing in the realm of potentiality, intrigue you the most or have intrigued you the most? Well, I'm a naturally inquisitive person, so they all do, Jeff. Basically, I would say this. Nick Suzuki, it was clear to me that Montreal said

after the whole Kotkaniemi thing, we're not screwing around with this. We're not even going to give Carolina or anyone a chance to do this to us again. We're getting this one done. And another executive told me that from what he heard it was one of the most smooth or if not the smoothest negotiation of the last little while that the word was that sir there was some i don't even know if arguing is the right

word there was you know there was negotiating there and there was hard negotiating there at times but the word were around the league was that that one was getting done and it was going to get done before the season because everyone wanted it to get done and they were generally on the same page the other thing too and i've said this a lot this week i just think montreal needed some good news you know you have the price situation you have the situation the drew anything and it was it was wonderful to see him score on opening night. Josh Anderson, Drouin scores! There's the first goal of the new season, and it's Jonathan Drouin!

Kind of a fitting one-two punch there. Drouin, all the troubles he had last year, stepping away from the team. One of his biggest supporters was Josh Anderson, both emotionally, physically physically helping him back but it's a turnover here by Muzzin now you've got a two-on-one and how about the patience of Anderson just waited to help committed himself and went down I just think that organization's been through a lot and you know he's a number one center he's going to be a number one center for a long time

and I think it was it was a positive vibe for the organization. You know, that's interesting, the idea of the Jesperi Kotkaniemi offer sheet hastening along a Nick Suzuki deal. I can remember on this podcast, you and I talking about this, what effect is this going to have on Nick Suzuki? Like, is Nick Suzuki going to make sure

he sends Jesperi Kotkaniemi a Christmas card? Because that offer sheet, like to your point about Montreal, if they had matched, would Carolina just turn around and do the same thing with Nick Suzuki the following season? Or some other team do the same thing with Nick Suzuki the following season? So I think that's a really interesting comment.

Could you imagine if they offer sheet each other in perpetuity? So next year it's Montreal's turn, then the year after it's Carolina's term. I love a world like that. Don't you? I think the whole thing's hilarious. It's, you know what? It's, you need villains.

It's, it's good for the sport. I don't know if Bergevin thinks it's as hilarious as the rest of us do, but you need villains because it's good for entertainment. I think it would be fantastic. But we know how the NHL operates and teams just won't do it. It's a rare bird, the offer sheet, which is what made the Katkenyemi situation that much more special.

Charlie McEvoy, speaking of special, special defenseman with the Boston Bruins. And as we know, the Boston Bruins have a long history of getting players to come in under market value. And whether it's with this team, Patrice Bergeron or Brad Marchand or David Pasternak, the idea is very much the collective we over me. Does that streak end now with Charlie McAvoy? Is Charlie McAvoy the Boston Brewer and player that finally says, no, I want to earn what I'm worth thank you very much okay so again until

this is a done deal please don't take this as a report i'm just using the old doug mclean line i'm not saying it's true i'm telling you what i heard and i think the information is reasonably solid and i'm going to give you the process so everybody kind of understands what I'm thinking here. There was a podcast we taped, I think it was our first news podcast in September, where I said, I think the Bruins do a big run at getting Charlie McAvoy done before the season. And what I'd been told was that they were working on an eight-year extension with McAvoy and the number was above Wierenski which is 9.5 plus and after we recorded it I got a call and I got some dispute on how close it was and so I just wasn't sure and I didn't want to get well instead of podcasted or instead of radioed I

didn't want to get podcasted I told Amal to take it out because I just had some uncertainty. And if I could take it out, take it out before I'm really ready to defend myself if anyone challenges me on this. But that's what I'd heard. And someone just said, it's not close. I don't know if I'd go with that yet.

So now Cam Neely comes out the other day and says they're working on it. And again, if it's an eight year deal, I think the number is going to be very big. Like I know some people are guesstimating 10. I don't know that it's going to get to 10, but I had heard eight times 9.5 plus. And again, I'm not reporting. That's a fact. I'm just telling you what the rumor is out there. And the dispute I got was how close it was so i think it is a chance to be a very big deal it's obviously getting closer the best i can tell

is i think they're kind of working on how the whole structure of it might be working all i was told was there's work to do but it's it's getting. I always wonder what effect that has in the locker room because obviously for the longest time, the idea of the local discount was very much a thing in that room. Not unlike what it was like in Tampa as well with all of those discounts. You know, once that ends,

it kind of ends for everybody, right? It's tough to sell the hometown discount when one player says, nah, I'm not going to take that. I think it's yes and I think there's no. Because we work in a team concept too, right, Jeff? And we have something in our contracts that says we're not allowed to discuss our contract negotiations with each other. But I think you kind of know, right?

I think I kind of have a feeling about where I am in relation to some of my coworkers, for example. This is why Elliot talks down to me. That's right. That's right. Like, you know, you're, you're even lucky I allow you on the same podcast, but like, the thing is I've always looked at negotiations, this, and I realize I'm not the same as everyone else. Once I signed my deal, you know, I can't be angry about it anymore. I agreed to the deal and the good things that happen out of it and the bad things that happen out of it. Nobody's putting a gun to my head to sign a deal or not sign a deal. So the end of the

day, I say, it's my call. I made this choice and I live with the good and the bad. If I think somebody really leapfrogs me, I look at that as, okay. And when I next come up, I'm going to say, I think this is where this person is and I deserve to be X or Y in relation to them. I look at another deal as an opportunity. I don't like to be jealous of other people and what they make. I think it's a terrible way to live life.

But that's the way I would kind of look at it. Now, I think one of the things that happens, and we talked about this whenever Pedersen signed, I do think players look at each other as competitive as they are and say, that guy's making that and i'm making this yes totally i do think that happens but i think there's two things here i think one i think the bruins are a really mature group like i just think that they will be able to handle it and number two i think all these organizations are realizing that the young players today are different and yes you

get like a poster knock who says or an ekholm who says you know i don't come from a lot so this is perfect with me but i think you get a lot of other ones who now are saying i'm competitive i see what other people are making you're gonna have to find a way to make it work the key is finding that balance I can only speak for myself Jeff but I always say to myself when I sign a deal hey nobody forced me to do this so I live up to the terms of what I signed for I get that the other thing that you do know is very much a thing in the NHL occasionally and I can give a couple examples off the top of my head of players that I get that. The other thing that you do know is very much a thing in the NHL occasionally. And I can give a couple of examples off the top of my head of players that grow into hating

their contract and take it out on other players who have better deals. Like jealousy is a thing that happens everywhere. And we'd be foolish not to believe that it happens in our business, especially as you know. And in any business where there's, you know, multi, multi millions of dollars on the line. Okay. We're getting sidetracked here. I think you ask a really good question because you do wonder about the dynamics.

But as long as guys like Bergeron and Marchand and Pasternak are there, I think the culture will always be strong. And McAvoy isn't going to take whatever he gets and coast, right? No. He's going to play. He's going to play. He's going to earn it. So I think when you have good leaders, that stuff you can work around. I think it's when you have bad leadership and a bad situation that that stuff falls apart.

On that, we'll kick it off. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Till the come, we'll talk about Ekholm and Pulak. And we should probably get into a conversation about the Washington Capitals and Alexander Ovechkin, and opening night where we all expected fireworks between Wilson and Reeves. Instead, we got a great performance by Alex Ovechkin and a kid by the name of Hendrix Lapierre. Let's start the podcast now. Now. Alex Ovechkin. Still a goal away from tying Marcel Dion

for fifth all-time in NHL history, of course, out here on Power Play 1. That's about the only explanation point you could want right now, and there it is! He scores! Alex Ovechkin, goal number 731. He ties Marcel Dion for fifth all-time. It's 4-0 Washington. Alex Ovechkin has scored a shorthanded goal.

Goal number 732 for Ovechkin. He passes Marcel Dion on opening night with a multi-goal game. Alright Elliot, new tune bringing us in. That's Jane's Party by the way. Toronto-based four-piece outfit and that song you just heard, Freedj, composed just for 32 Thoughts, the podcast. We are thrilled to have Jane's Party aboard.

First of all, I wanted to say thank you to Jane's's party you could be doing anything else and you took time to do this for us and i don't take that lightly so thank you very much the second thing i'd like to say is guys make it easier to find your names on the website i'm looking at the bio and there's like 50 million words here i can't find your names i want to thank them so amal was gracious enough to give me their your names. I want to thank them. So Amal was gracious enough to give me their names. So I just want to say thank you to

Tom Ionescu, Zach Sutton, Devin Richardson, and Jeff Giles, the members of Gene's Party. Thank you for taking the time, guys. We really appreciate it. Gentlemen, thank you very much. Outstanding outfit and outstanding hockey player,

Alexander Ovechkin. Just heard a couple of clips there. And a big opening night, a big victory against the New York Rangers. We thought it was going to be fight night. Instead, it was fun night. Like that was a flat out fun hockey game to watch. Mind you, if you're a Rangers fan,

you probably don't see the joy in it. But a command performance by Alexander Ovechkin, some, listen listen some just pure hockey fun from hendrix lapierre and tj oshi we'll get to that in a couple of moments but do you have a thought going into this season on alexander rovetskin whether it's the you know the the gretzky chase whether it's the mass mutual commercial with nicholas backstrom which is hilarious and so well done hey alex why is Beckstrom on your life insurance policy? We are a duo.

A duo? Yeah, if something happened to me, who is Beckie going pass to puck to? His power play points might drop. Or he will get his assist. What then? Yeah, what then? What then? And why is he always here for breakfast?

Or just a thought in general on Alexander Ovechkin, who, you know, as we welcome in a whole new crop of young players into this game with a whole new vibe, as the league has a fresh coat of paint stateside, where does Ovechkin fit for you in this NHL universe by the way we should mention his wife Nastia who's probably the real star of the commercial very good in the commercial it's excellent commercial anytime you have that kind of personality we definitely want to see it and and show it off no question about that you know one of the reasons I don't think,

you know, for anyone who thought that was going to be fight night, immediately it's two nothing and the Rangers are reeling. You're probably sitting there and saying, forget all the other stuff. Let's go ahead with trying to get back in the game. So I think it kind of took all of that away. Capitals looked really good. I think, you know know we've talked about this we're kind of all sitting here kind of wondering what the capitals are going to be like this year they were riled up and you know the thing about lapierre is i mean who knows what's going to happen here when backstrom comes back and everything but there's no question it breathes some new life into the organization you know oh she's reaction when he scored oh that's awesome you

know sometimes sometimes an organization just needs that something exciting that or unexpected that just brings that surge of electricity and that did it the one thing here that you know kind of surprised me a bit was i was shocked when george came out of the tunnel why as the starter back-to-back nights they're at msg on thursday night it just surprised me now i gather that what happened here is they thought that might be better if shisterikin's playing the back half of the back-to-back against dallas because they might be a little bit tired I guess I just look at it you know you're coming out you're trying to set a tone the start of your season it just surprised me it really did you know I think you go with your number one guy on opening night it's not like Dallas is easy pickings or

anything like that that's for sure I think the stars are going to be pretty good I mean these things are easy to second guess with 2020 hindsight but i was just shocked when george yav came out of the tunnel i was like wow i i wasn't expecting that one the oshi reaction was great on the hendrix lapierre goal you know you're always looking for sort of past the torch moments to kids they didn't seem like five minutes ago tj oshiie was that kid at North Dakota who was doing all those tricks with his stick in the park? And wow, here's this highly skilled kid that's coming into the NHL. And now that's very much gone. And I don't know, maybe I'm just feeling like I'm getting old, Elliot.

But it seemed like five minutes ago, here's this kid coming out of NODAC by the name of TJ Oshie lighting it up for the St. Louis Blues. Now he's the one picking up Hendrick Slapier off the ice to hug and celebrate him behind the net. First of all, I'm not making any overall judgments on the Rangers based on one night. They had a bad night, and Dallas is going to be a big one. That suddenly has a big feel of a game to them. But I am making a judgment after one night of Ovechkin.

He's going to break the record. This year? No, I'm not going to break it this year. Sorry, man. It's a new character called Hot Take Guy that I'm working on here. You've been hanging around Anthony too much. It's going to be... Yes, he's going to score 160 goals this year and break the record.

Shatter the record. He's going to break it. I mean, health is the big question i'm just convinced he's gonna do it okay so a couple of issues a couple contracts of contracts specifically. Matthias Ekholm, four-year contract, $25 million, 6.25 is the AAV, and we're going to get to the Ryan Pulak deal here in a couple of seconds. But as far as the Nashville Predators defenseman goes, I mean, he's been a fascinating guy in the last season. He went from being the guy that everyone was hunting for come trade deadline time to being a key piece down the stretch as Nashville,

you know, clawed their way back into the playoff race to being someone who said, I'm not going to negotiate during the season. If it's not done, I'm not talking until the end of the year to being someone that's been re-upped by David Poyle during what he is referring to now as a quote, competitive rebuild for the nashville predators your thoughts on matthias at home i think he's changed that i i do a radio hit in nashville

every tuesday yeah and apparently poil said that he didn't like competitive rebuild i think the phrase and i'm going from memory so forgive me if this is wrong but they told me on his regular tuesday hit that he wish he would have said competitive transition or something like that we do get caught up in words a lot there's there's no question i was surprised by some of the reaction of the yakholm deal that nashville shouldn't have done it i don't get that you know first of all he wants to be a predator and they really love him him. If they wanted to trade him, they could have traded him last year. And they traded Ellis in the offseason instead of him.

They want him to be there, and he wants to be there. I don't think this term at four years is going to hurt anybody. One of the big challenges I heard here is that he doesn't have the counting numbers that a lot of other guys have. So sometimes it's more difficult in those situations it's kind of like the islanders had with pellick you know what's the sweet spot what's the number you know he's a really good player but he doesn't have the counting numbers i don't have a problem with this deal i for one thing like i said everybody here

wants to be where they are and secondly you still have to have good players even if your team is going through a transition or a rebuild whatever you call it you have to have good pros around your young guys who you want to break through you have to shield them at times he can do that and you have to have players especially when you could be going through a bit of a turnaround phase that your fans want to see. And in Nashville, they love Eckholm. They're happy to have him there. To me, this is a really safe and good gamble by the team.

I could always be wrong. It's happened once or twice. I just don't see how this is a bad thing for them. I think people look at the aging curve and say... Do you think I'm wrong? I don't, but then the aging curve and say, do you think I'm wrong? I don't. But then the other side of me, again, like I keep going back to like,

you know, sports being half your heart and half your head. And my heart says, I got no problem with this. He wants to be there. People love him. I understand that it's not just about what you do on the ice.

I think he's a great example for younger kids in that organization. And as you're going to not rebuild David, but transition to your next phase here, you're going to not rebuild David, but transition to your next phase here, you're going to need players like Matias at home around. He's a pro's pro. But then the other side of me says, well, just be cold and hard and look at the underlying numbers and look at the history of players like this and contract like this end up hamstringing an organization. So to be honest with you, I don't have a yes or no answer.

I'm kind of torn because I see both sides of it. I see the cutthroat, you can't be giving this type of term, this type of money to a player his age. And on the other hand, I can see the team building element of this, which is if you're going to rebuild, you better have players like this around because we've seen what happens when you fill a team just with kids and don't have vets, even if they're overpaid and even if they're overextended for a couple of years, we've seen what happens if you don't have those guys around.

So really, it's not a great take for radio or podcasts, but I see both sides of this argument. We've seen the Islanders do deals with a couple of key defensemen as well. We've talked about the Adam Pellick deal deal and that's a 5.75 aav and ryan pulak's deal looks like it's going to be a whopper uh as well eight years at an aav of 6.25 what do you make of this one it's a little less than i heard it's between 49 and 50 okay i think it's not quite 6.25. You're correct, Elliot. It's 6.15 AAV.

Back to the podcast. You know, someone told me a pretty funny thing. He said he listened to the podcast back in the summer, and he said that, I said that Lou Lamorello is going to figure out how much it's going to cost to keep Pellick and he'll get that done. And then he'll worry about everything else. And he said to me, you got that totally wrong. And I said, okay, it's not like Lou Lamorello is telling me what his strategies are. So I said, what did i get wrong about it he says this is my prediction and i said okay he said my prediction is that lou lamorello is going to get all his other guys done

and then he's going to go to pellick and say this is all i got for you i love you but this is all i got for you and i'm beginning to think that's exactly what he did so you know even though Pellick was the one that got announced first because he had to it was an arbitration related thing and he didn't file all these other ones until last week because he has his own central registry people are just convinced that he had all these other deals done he's like I'm sorry we need to fit you in at that number like who knows if he'll ever tell us the truth. But he said, I guarantee to you, you got that story totally backwards. And you know what?

Remember in Vancouver in 2011, everybody was taking less money there. The Sedins took below market. Burrows definitely took below market. BXA took below market because they were winning and they liked each other and they wanted to play together. You look at the Islanders right now. Pellick could have done better on the open market. Pulak could have done better on the open market. Like all these guys are taking less

because they have a chance to win and they really like the setup. That's what happens when you have a good setup and you're doing well and you have a good culture guys are saying you know what why bleep with happy and that's what pulak's doing and that's what pellick did let me take a little detour here on the podcast hearing you talk about lou lamorello like this because this is something that i've maintained for a long time hearing you talk about lamorello and oh he'll never say whether this was a strategy or this ever

happened i think back to another famous islanders general manager bill tory and bill tory was once very famously offered a number of pieces in exchange for the first overall draft pick that was going to be dennis pot fan by the canadians? I think you've told that story. Yes. Closest I ever got to figuring out who it was, was I'm pretty sure it was four or five pieces and it was like big name players. They really wanted Potfan on the Habs and Bill

Tory said no. I even asked Bill Tory this when he was with the Florida Panthers before he passed and even then he wouldn't give it up and this is like, this is decades later. I strongly feel that, and any general manager listening to this is going to tell me to kick rocks as they listen to this podcast. I feel that general managers owe it to hockey history, as long as it's not hurting anybody to give up those stories. I'm with you. Now here's what I'll point out.

We've seen plenty of hockey books written by point out we've seen plenty of hockey books written by players we've seen plenty of hockey books written by coaches we've seen plenty of hockey books written by officials you don't see hockey books written by general managers which is why I really like the fact that Brian Burke wrote one there is a dearth of literature from general managers in the world of hockey and I think that all of these managers owe it to hockey that when their career is done, they tell these stories. I think they owe it to the history of hockey.

I agree. Did you ever read Jason Ferris's GM book? Oh, that is the best one. That is called behind the moves. Yeah. It's a great, like that is,

they tell some there's it's close there. There's some great, that is the closest one. Yeah. It's a great, like that is- Because they tell some, it's close there. There's some great- That is the closest one. Yeah. But listen, like, I don't know who else would know who those pieces of the pot fan offer were,

but Bill Torrey took that with him. Countless general managers have took secrets of the game and more so secrets of the craft and how they ran organizations to the grave with them. And I think that really does a disservice to hockey. Just as an aside, a big platitude from you.

I'll get off my high horse here. I don't disagree. I just look at the history of hockey and like, where's all the books being written by general managers? They're not there. And I really, as someone who loves the history of the game, I really wish they were. Anyway, on to a couple of other things here. Do you have anything else on Ryan Pulak or the Island islanders i guess we didn't really talk about pulak we

mentioned more about adam pellick uh you have a thought on on uh on ryan put maybe maybe just the pair themselves like these two pulak and pellick well think now now you've got your top pair at 12 million yes at a time when one guy is signing for nine. Yeah. It's good business. Like I always say this, and again, it goes back to what we were talking about with contracts before. If you're happy with your deal, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. Right.

Just remember that you are happy with it. When you sign it, if Ryan Bullock is happy with his deal, I'm happy for him. And he has a chance to win. That's what these guys want at the end of the day good for him they want to win do you have a thought uh just a general gloss on the first couple of days of action that we've seen so far across the NHL anything jumping out at you

I think John Gibson has a chance to be one of the most fascinating guys in the NHL this year goon goalie John Gibson well I give him a lot of credit because he kind of ripped his teammates, right? Yep. And he's saying, you know, we got to be better and not just the kids, but also the veterans. And then he came out in game one and backed it up. And the thing I like too is, so he takes two penalties

and the second one, it's his fault because Dubois actually misses him. And I don't know if he's mad that he violated the safe space or what but he took a penalty and then he made an enormous save on the penalty kill to keep it 2-1 like if you're taking that penalty you have to kill it yeah and he did so if you're gonna talk you gotta back it up and you know someone made a good point to me how many players are wired about the Olympics this year? You don't think that John Gibson and I'm,

I thought about this today. I wish I would've thought about it last night. The person who's brought it up to me and said, where were you yesterday? You think, you not think that John Gibson was looking down at the end of the ice at Connor Hellebuck and saying, I want the net.

That's the guy who's going to take the team USA net from me. You know, the thing too is Anaheim has a chance to be a real power broker in the league this year. You've got Raquel. You've got Hampus Lindholm. You've got Manson. Silverberg's contract isn't up.

You know, Gibson, you know, I don't think they're really firing to trade him, but the better he plays, the team going into a rebuild, you know someone's going to ask about him, right? Yeah. So I think Anaheim very quietly has a chance to be a real power broker here this year with the kinds of pieces they could have available

if they're not in contention. But I got to tell you, that Gibson, nobody in the first two nights fascinated me more and entertained me more than Gibson did. That's a good one. I got a lot of time for that guy. And that's a great point, too, about Gibson staring down Hellebuck. Something to watch

this season. oh yeah before we go through some emails here and there's some really good ones uh i want to get your thoughts and i know you want to talk about this uh the adam schefter situation and he's gotten caught up in the mix of this. Apparently, Bruce Allen, the president, former president of the Washington football team, was one of Adam's sources. That's obvious. And in covering the lockout, or potential lockout, am I right, at that time, in 2011,

Adam wrote a story about the lockout and sent it to Bruce Allen for him to proofread Allen for him to proofread. For him to edit. And he asked him, is there anything that needs to be changed,

tweaked, added? Changed, added, or tweaked, I believe was the language. And he called him Mr. Editor. So obviously that's something that generally does not happen. Do you have a thought or two on this one during the season i'm not really aware of what's kind of going on in the world as much

as i normally am because my brain is is totally focused on the work but i got a call the other day from a friend of mine and he we answer the phone i say hey how you doing he goes so i have a question for you and i said okay what is it and he goes how soon after gary betman finishes editing 32 thoughts do you post it up on the internet and i'm like what i laughed about like what are you talking about like what where is this coming from and he mentioned the adam schefter thing now i want to make something very clear uh before we start this i don't want my words to be used against adam schefter i'm not passing judgment on this it was 10 years ago and i'm wondering you know what is there any context here that we're not seeing and also i am not the journalism ethics police i try to be

as ethical as i can i hope i am but i don't pass judgment on anybody else i don't think i'm that good that i should be lecturing others on the job they do or not do so i'm not looking to say that I'm better or worse than Adam Schefter in any way but he was asking me like does that happen do you ever send your stories to like the league or someone and say is this okay is it okay if I print this and you know I was no, that doesn't happen. And he said to me, have you ever sent a story to anyone? And we had this conversation and he said, you know, you should put it on the podcast because I think this is really interesting. So I remembered three occasions where I'd done it. The first one was when it was becoming clear that Atlanta, the thrashers, were in big trouble.

And I was working on a story on it that had some pretty good detail. And I was really moving. I thought I had a really good story. And I got in touch with one person who said to me, there's about 50% of this story that I would write and 50% of the story I would take out because I think you're going to be wrong on some of these things. that I would write and 50% of the story I would take out because I think you're going to be wrong on some of these things. You may not be wrong today, but I believe you will be wrong soon and you won't look good. And we kind of started doing, going through it. And he said, yes, do that. No,

don't do that. And finally, I just said, you know what? I'm going to be safe here. Here's a chunk of what I've got. And you tell me where I'm wrong. And he did. And I wrote the story. And it turned out to be a very accurate, very on-point story. And I didn't give editing power or anything to anyone. But I just said, you know what? I'm going to be safe with this story. Because if it's wrong, and because you remember the emotion of, is Winnipeg going to get a team? You can't be wrong about

that. So that was one incident where I did it. There were two more. There was one story I was chasing and it was a big story. And I was chasing someone for a week and they would not get back to me. And finally I said to them, I sent them an email and a text version. It was a short blog. And I said, this is going out in an hour if you don't call me. And then, because I know I have this, I know I have a couple of holes,

but this is going out in an hour if you don't call me. And he called me in like 10 minutes. And he said, you're putting this out there? And I said, yes, and there was a deep sigh, and he says, I can't talk you out of it, and I said, no, you've had days, and I know I have this pretty good. He said, okay, let me fill in the blanks,

and that was that. And then the third time I did it, it was actually very recent, because there was another big story. And I said to someone, I have a lot of respect for you. I'm sending you this because I want to know if I'm wrong. And they didn't get back to me, which led me to know I was right. And then I kind of warned a team about it.

And I got burned by someone else on the team who tipped off another reporter. So I don't know if I'm ever doing that again. But, you know, I did want to say that this person, I had this conversation with them and they said, you know, you should share it on the podcast because I think people would find it interesting. You know, people can pass judgment all they want. I'm glad I did it the first time. I'm glad I did it the second time. I'm not glad I did it the third time. I didn't give anyone any editorial control. In the first time, it was simply, I'm checking the facts. In the second time, it was simply, I'm putting this out there, so you better come out of hiding, which he did.

And the third one was kind of the same thing, but I got burned for it. So I actually thought in the first two occasions, it really helped me get the story right and it made the story even better but it's not something i really think people do a lot i really don't think people do that a lot and i just think in in schefter's case i'm wondering if there's any chance that there's any context here that you know we're missing what do you think see the the one thing that I'm always curious about is when you're the person at the other end and I get a note from Elliott Friedman saying I'm putting this out in your experience yeah from the NHL like there are obviously some people don't want things to come out makes her job

challenging makes her life challenging. It's a headache. But my curiosity is, and you have this of any walk of life, how honest do you think people are in the league? I think it depends from person to person. I've had situations where, and I think you probably have as well, I've just been flat out lied to. And I understand why people do it.

I get it and I understand what they're protecting. But just by and large, because you've covered a lot of different sports. I've been hockey my whole life. You compare hockey to baseball, to basketball, to football, any sport. CFL, for example, you're the voice of the CFL and CBC. How honest is hockey compared to the other sports? How honest are people in the game? I don't think that's a fair question.

And the reason is because I think it all depends on relationships, right? I've never covered a sport where I have as many wide relationships as I do in hockey. Like when I covered the NBA, I had good relationships with the Raptors, but they weren't as deep as say the top insiders would now across the league. When I covered baseball, I had good relationships with the Blue Jays, good working relationships with the Blue Jays. But if you look at the top baseball insiders now, I wouldn't have that depth of connections. Like hockey is the, is the league because I've just been around it for so long that I have more good relationships with a lot of people. And, you know, like you said, there are times people have to lie to you

and whatever battles I have have I like to keep them private I know people love it now when everyone fights on Twitter or social media like I don't feel the need to say I want people to see that I can fight with people so I'm going to do it on Twitter like that's not me I I have my battles, as you know, and I like to keep them private. I think the only thing that really makes me crazy is that when someone lies to me when there's no reason to lie to me. And that actually happened pretty recently. And I was like, what? Like, what's the benefit of lying to me about this?

And I know I'm not perfect. I know I get things wrong and I strive to try to treat people well, but sometimes I fall short of that. But I just, I never understand the, the lying for no reason. I just, I just don't get it. Hearing you talk about this and, and, and the, uh, the, the chef, for example, I always think it's a good idea to give people the heads up that you're going to, like, if it's going to impact them to give them the heads up that it's coming out so they're not surprised. Like I did something this morning and had a conversation with someone and I'm glad that

I did just sort of giving them the heads up about something that I was, um, that I was wondering about. And it led to another bit of information that I'm working on. I might use on, on Saturday, but I find that that, I don't want to say it's a tactic because it's both a tactic and a courtesy. I think that can draw more information out of people. But again, that does still go back to the relationship that you have with that person. But I think as a courtesy, I think it's a good thing to do. And B, it's also a device to try to get more information out of people and to build a relationship too. How many times do people tell you a tweet goes out and their phones blow up and they're like,

what the hell just happened, right? So if you can do that, I think if you can give them a heads up, you can. Twitter has definitely changed it. You can't always do it now. And hockey has very competitive reporters. The people who do this job, you know, we're friendly, but we're also very competitive. So they're always trying to beat each other, right? And if you're ever thinking that someone else has the story you're working on, you're like, oh my God, how much time do I have?

Yeah, I gotta hustle. I gotta hustle. So Twitter's changed it, but I always try. Like I said, I'm not trying to say I'm like any more ethical or unethical than anyone else. I think everybody makes their own decisions. I only judge myself and only I know if I do the best possible thing or not. I was having this conversation with someone yesterday and they said, you should put this

on your podcast because sometimes people like to hear how the sausage is made. But because when you hear that story, you're wondering, is it all like this? Is everyone like this? And like I said, I really suspect that there might be more here to the whole context of the situation. But when it gets out, it's such a wildfire. And sometimes I know people, they're just like, like i'm gonna duck my head and take the bullets and and move on to the next thing which is what i would probably do too okay i want to get to some emails here to wrap up the pod today 32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca is the email address man you guys

sent us a bunch thanks very much we appreciate it yeah totally uh hey jeff and elliot i was always told that yellow laces make you skate faster that is what i'll pass on to my child when they learn how to skate it's hockey fundamentals sincerely ethan future calgary flames pr director when i read that you know what i immediately thought of kelly rudy laughing at me and i'll tell you a quick story remember when i was doing hockey night radio there has always been this idea that if you tape your blade with black tape it will disguise the puck from the goaltender and they'll have a hard time reading the puck off your blade and i remember mentioning that to kelly on the show and he starts howling at me. And he can't stop laughing. I'm like, what's so funny?

He goes, do you think goalies can't see depth? Like, do you think the goaltenders can't see depth at all? It's still a black puck on white ice. What do you think we can't see depth? Like this black tape is hiding the puck somehow? He goes, I've heard this for a million years and it's totally not true. Oh my God, that is so funny million years and it's totally not true. Oh my God. That is so funny.

Oh, it's a great one. From Brandon White. Which teams do you think will be most affected by the new cross-checking rule? The Islanders cross-check everyone. First of all, it's not a new rule. It's just a stricter enforcement of an established rule. Although I'm beginning to wonder about this. What, how it's not called the first

couple of days it has not been called haven't seen a lot of cross-checking calls haven't seen a lot of them we'll see we'll see where it goes it's still early you know one of the teams a lot of people pointed to was uh the montreal canadians without weber they're down about 10.76 cross checks a game you know that was one thing i noticed last night is that you know the fear factor like it's not like nobody hurt you more going on the net than weber did yep nobody that's gonna be a big deal you know weber was a guy when he stepped over the bench onto the ice he changed the game because you were worried that he could damage you. From Mark Peralta from St. Louis.

Would Elliot entertain the idea of having a man bun or ponytail this year? I think I'll just go with the burns. Man bun or ponytail. Are you growing those things out? Yeah, I like them. I like all the 1800s era presidents i'm being sent in my mentions i like i like the burns when i first started in the business actually yeah as a radio volunteer at the fan here in toronto i had big burns and scott metcalf told me his shape oh really he said you know hey why yeah he said you know what like maybe when you're a bit more established but

he actually it was smart he said look you're just starting out this is a corporate environment it was telemedia that owned it at the time said be be smart it was not rude or negative it was from a very good position here's one uh from steven wolf jeff i know you're a big proponent of changing the color of the ice. I don't know if you've ever said what color you would change it to, however. I've seen good green. I've seen good blue. I've seen good pink.

I think it should be up to the teams. Here's one thing, Elliot. I've never asked you this one before. Here's another if I ran the zoo situation for you. The animals would all be escaping. Yes. I ran the zoo situation for you. The animals would all be escaping.

Yes. I liked it when the odd in Buffalo or the Boston garden or Chicago were in the league and their rink size was different than the rest of the league. I agree with that. Like right now it's 200 by 85 everywhere. I really liked the idea of having different size ranks in different markets, and it all depends on the team because it'll affect how you play, how you draft, how you develop, and you'll end up having teams with different personalities. And there'll be areas where they can excel, areas where they're not as good, where they'll obviously have more home ice advantage

because they're used to a certain configuration of the ice. I'm not a big fan of standardized 200 by 85. I want to have, maybe one ring's got the 200 by 100 Olympic size. Maybe it's got the 200 by 92 finish size. I don't know. 180 by 80, dare I say that, a tiny little box. I don't know. I just like the idea of having different configurations of the ice for different teams what do you think about that i loved it you

know i used to love watching games at the old garden or chicago stadium or maple leaf gardens or even buffalo look these buildings they're now they're cash cows right they're revenue makers they're not buildings as much as their revenue makers but they do tend to be a little more antiseptic and you do miss all of that and there's no question about it that the things that made each building different the thing that made you realize the garden was boston the stadium was chicago the gardens was toronto the forum was Montreal. All that stuff is gone. But, you know, now it's about monetizing

your rink. So that's what you get. I don't disagree with you on this one. One more. From John Dixon. I'd love to get your opinion on something that's been bothering me for the past couple of seasons. The reverse hit. Colby Armstrong calls it the cold shoulder. Peter Forsberg special, eh, Freed? You should call it the cold shoulder peter forsberg special a free you

should call it the colb shoulder because he used to do that the colb shoulder yeah well his big one was dropping down from the blue line for guys coming around the net oh did he clobber i know he caught so many guys like that uh my opinion is that the reverse hit has been weaponized to give the puck carrier an unfair advantage oftentimes the puck carrier will turn his back to the defender, which takes away the hit. The puck carrier then hits the defender who doesn't have the puck, isn't hitting a player not in possession

of the puck interference. Do you have a thought on the Forsberg? I love it. And that's a really tough play to Mark. By the way, Mark Recchi was really good at that too. Sneakily, Recchi was really good at that too, sneakily. Recchi was really good at that play, but that's the Peter Forsberg move. Do you have a thought on that one?

Well, I think in some way it makes the game safer. You know, Claude Julien was a guy when he coached, he was a big proponent of telling his defensemen especially to do it. He said if a guy is charging down the ice, especially after interference was taken out of the game, he said, you know, defensemen have a guy barreling in on you. He said, don't cross-check them in the head or anything like that, but you have to be prepared to give as good as you get.

He said, if you either have to reverse hit or you have to turn around and give a cross-check or a shot to protect yourself. He said, I will always kill that penalty if you're trying to defend yourself and you're not trying to deliberately injure anyone. And to me, I agree with you. I think it's a defense mechanism. Why shouldn't the player with the puck who's allowed to be hit hard, as long as it's legally, be able to find a way to defend themselves too? I like that. I like that. No details, no more teases, but the thought line is coming to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. And also after Saturday on the following podcast, you should probably park some time and talk about the new studio for the NHL and Sportsnet and Hockey Night in Canada.

Because there's one more look that's coming out. So we're not going to say anything yet. We'll wait till Hockey Night comes and goes this weekend. Taking us out today, a talented duo from Chicago. Woody Goss and Jeremy Daly, stage name Woody and Jeremy, have been creating music together for a long time and last

year, the duo made their full-length debut with Strange Satisfaction with Woody as a composer and Jeremy as the lyricist. The guys came back this year with their sophomore record that samples a number of genres. From their debut record, here's Woody and Jeremy as the lyricist. The guys came back this year with their sophomore record that samples a number of genres. From their debut record, here's Woody and Jeremy with Be There. 32 Thoughts, the podcast.

Oh man, this exit looks familiar But something makes you dry It's what, it's what, it's what, it's what, it's what But something makes you dry It's what, it's what, it's what, it's what, it's what Keeps changing your mind We're all missing the same ingredient Must be that thing that makes you right It's why, it's why, it's why, it's why

It's why we're all falling behind Let me be there, let me be there, you know an expense is fine. Let me be there, let me be there, you know the past is mine