32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Back To Work

Episode Date: September 6, 2022

With hockey season around the corner, Jeff and Elliotte dive into some news from around the league including contract extensions for J. T. Miller (1:00) & Tage Thompson (14:45), what the Canucks might do with Bo Horvat (12:50), Dallas signing Jake Oettinger (19:45), Jason Robertson’s future with the Stars (21:40), Evan Rodrigues (24:15), Mike Sullivan is staying with the Penguins (29:20), Vegas building their roster (27:30), Canada wins gold at Women’s World on a sour note (30:20) and other stories we are following (26:15).The guys then chat with Pierre-Édouard Bellemare about his love of renovating homes and being back home in Paris (38:00), and they catch up with Victor Hedman (57:00).This episode is dedicated to Eli Palfreyman. Our thoughts and prayers go out to his friend and family.Music Outro: Deeper - This HeatListen to the full single hereThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: The Cam & Strick PodcastThe views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Today's edition of 32 Thoughts is dedicated to the memory of Eli Paul Freeman. Eli was the captain of the Air Centennials, who tragically passed away last week in the intermission of a hockey game. We offer condolences to his family, to his friends, and to the entire hockey community of Air Ontario. So, Elliot, the J.T. Miller saga comes to an end or does it insert some type of gripping music there yeah uh Tage Thompson signs a massive deal many wonder about the number many wonder about the term and many Elliot ask why now welcome to the podcast also we're going to hear from a couple

of Tampa Bay Lightning players Pierre-Edouardmar. I love this interview. I've never spoken to him before. What an engaging guy. And Victor Hedman. What more do you need to add about Victor Hedman? This was all done in Paris as we were over there a couple of weeks ago as part of the European NHL Players Tour. But we'll start off with the news that, Elliot, I guess in hockey news time, it feels like it happened about a million years ago, but it really was only a few days, but here it is.

JT Miller signs seven-year deal, $56 million, AAV of $8 million. Yeah, 29 years old. This contract starts when he was 30. And Elliot, I think what's puzzling a lot of people is when Jim Rutherford took over, when we first heard from Patrick Alvin, the general manager, there was a lot of talk about Vancouver needs cap flexibility. We need room to maneuver.

We need room to do things here. We need to replenish. We need to renew. Instead, we got extensions for Besser and now we have an extension for JT Miller. Your thoughts? Jeff, do you remember when you were a kid and your parents told you not to do something and then you saw them do what they told you not to do? And their response was, do as I say, not as I do. Yes, yes, yes. Justice for thee, but not for me.

Because I said so, yes. What it is, is it's an excellent reminder of, it's always easy to say, well, we're not going to do that or we're not giving that contract or we need cap room until it actually comes right down to it. It's always easy to say it when it's someone else's player. It's not always easy to say it when it's your player. And it's only really easy to say it when you're Arizona or you're Anaheim and you're punting a little bit. You know, Pat Verbeek, he could walk into Anaheim this year.

And I think Pat Verbeek's a pretty smart guy. But he could walk into Anaheim this year and he could move everybody out of there because it was time. And everybody knew it was time. The organization knew it was time and of there because it was time and everybody knew it was time the organization knew it was time and the fans knew it was time not everybody can do that and i think what the vancouver canucks did was they said we're not doing this we're not doing this we're not doing this and all of a sudden they kind of looked at the landscape especially with some of the things that have happened this off season. And they said, you know what? We're going to do this.

Even though we said we weren't going to, because this one changed really quick. It went from trending in the direction of this was not going to happen. And it turned around in the span of a few days. All of a sudden the Canucks called and they said, let's get this done. And it got done really fast. So up until this point, as we all know, Vancouver was talking to other teams about JT Miller. And we know a number of the teams that they were talking to. And then this one came out of the blue for a lot of people.

We had heard like, okay, they're going to re-engage. You're going to see if they can get something done. But I think in the back of everyone's mind, we thought, okay, this is going to be a matter of when not if they trade jt miller and one of the theories out there is the fact that they have signed him to this extension at eight million dollars maybe makes him easier to move now because he still has one year left on the old deal before the new deal with the no move kicks in. And while a number like nine million AAV might've scared away some teams, I'm not so sure that the number eight does. Do you subscribe to the theory that this may actually make JT Miller more tradable?

I don't know if I'm buying what you're selling. I really don't know if I'm buying that. I understand why you'd say that. And one of the things here that's interesting is that, for example, when Carey Price signed his big extension in Montreal the year before it kicked in, they could agree to a situation where even though he had a year remaining on his current deal, you could lock in a no trade clause that previously hadn't been there. And Montreal did that. And there were some rumors about trading carrier price that year,

but he had the no trade. This didn't happen in this particular case. I believe that it was asked. I believe that Miller and his agents, Brian Bartlett, did ask the team about doing that. Hang on. You're making my point here, Elliot. Continue.

I like this. You're making my point. This is great. And the Canucks didn't do it. They kept it. No, they have the flexibility that no move kicks in next July 1st. But the thing is, for example, if you're trading JT Miller and you're a team that was going to sign him,

you knew it was probably going to be that kind of a deal. Jeff, do you think that it's a surprise to anyone that Miller came in around seven times eight? No, not at all. But this guarantees that with the trade, he comes with term. Whereas before, you're only getting JT Miller on the one year and there was no guarantee that he was going to stay with your team. He's not going to stay with your organization at all. This way, you're getting JT Miller. If there was a team that said, yeah, we want JT Miller, it's going to be a big expense.

We want to have him for more than just the one year and we're not scared by the number eight, this gives it to you. Well, look at all the teams right now that aren't taking turn. I'm not buying that this makes it any more likely he's getting traded. I don't think I'm buying that at all. I just want to put it out there just for something to play with.

Just, you know, as we get warmed up for the season, Elliot, let your mind play with the possibility maybe that JT Miller, this trade for JT Miller still might exist out there in some form. I think the Canucks did look at the possibility of trading him. I mean, you could turn out to be right. There could end up being a deal here somewhere down the road.

But as I'm saying this today, I don't think that they signed. I mean, Jim Rutherford could do anything. He's proven in his history he could do absolutely anything. But I think this right now was done with the intention of keeping him. Here's what I wonder about. You think this was done to trade him? No, I just think it keeps the possibility of trading him open. Yeah. That's all it does. I don't think they went into this saying, it keeps the possibility of trading him open. Yeah.

That's all it does. I don't think they went into this saying, Hey, here's our big scheme here, but all it does is it still keeps that window open. There's still absent any type of no trade protection this season. Yes. And he is locked in for eight more years.

Yep. All I'm saying is the possibility still exists. Oh yeah. That JT Miller could, I don't think they went into this saying, you know, rubbing their hands together, you know, tying someone to the, to train tracks here and saying, ha ha, Oh, yeah. takes themselves right out of a playoff spot early because of either poor performance by players or injury or whatever.

A number of reasons a team can go out early. We've seen it before with a number of teams. I think that that keeps this option open. You look at the Pacific, right? Maybe they look at the Pacific and they say, okay, Edmonton, solid. Calgary, solid. Vegas, and we're going to get to their situation

in a couple of minutes here. Some question marks in net. Los Angeles Kings, they're pretty solid, but we may be able to be in the hunt here as long as we keep the band together. But if it falls apart early, then they still do have the option to do something with JT Miller.

That's all I'm saying. Yeah, I wouldn't disagree with that. I thought your whole idea there was that this made it more likely he gets traded. No, I'm saying that. In this league league how many untouchable players are there uh a couple yeah like honestly probably just a couple i mean the fact that the canucks didn't give them the protection this year says to me that there's

always a possibility of it i don't believe that like i look at this summer look how much has changed this summer okay first of all the pacific looks like it's going to be a really tough division yes or do you disagree no no i think and that's that's why edmonton calgary vegas and los angeles i think it's going to be a really tough tough division and i don't think vancouver is a team that likes the idea of big rebuild right doesn't seem to. We thought once upon a time they would have. Exactly.

You take a look at the contracts that got signed this summer. Nazem Khadri, a couple years older than Miller, got seven times seven. Jonathan Huberto, around the same age as Miller, got eight times ten and a half. Tage Thompson, younger than Miller, first big season, got seven times seven. I think there are teams that are looking at this and saying, this is the market now.

Now, maybe that all changes. Maybe some teams will benefit from waiting to see how this all goes but vancouver went from silence on this and not really budging to hey let's talk and let's get this done and miller gave up a little bit too this is less than his ask was initially and also the structure of the deal is such that, you know, the last year there's no signing bonus. So it's bio-friendly the last year of it. So everybody compromised here, but for Vancouver to come from, yeah,

no conversation to kaboom, let's get this done. It says to me that they want the play. I just think that it's a weird time to say that we're all in. Like, as you mentioned, the Pacific's going to be a really tough division, and we keep circling the big four, Edmonton, Calgary, Vegas, and Los Angeles,

and you look at that and you say, well, which team is Vancouver better than? You've got to be better than either four teams in your division or five teams in the other one. Like, Central's hard too, man. Yes. Like, and I'm Central's hard too, man. Yes. And I'm trying to figure out, okay. Which team is Vancouver better than?

I like that. I was told, Jeff, there would be no skill testing questions to this podcast. Let's just keep this in the philosophical realm then and not worry about anything actually that we can measure. Because it just seems like it's a bizarre time to double down and go all in on. This is our group. And we're taking a shot at this. Like we went into the draft in Montreal and what were we saying about

Vancouver? Whoever they take in the first round automatically becomes their number one prospect. And that's what they need to restock. And that seemed to be consensus. Like this is what Vancouver needs to do. And Jim Rutherford and Patrick Galvin are in here and it's going to be a heavy lift, but Vancouver knows they need to do it. They're going to do it on the Quinn Hughes, Elias Pettersson, Thatcher Demko timeline.

And if your presence doesn't compliment that timeline, then you could be made available. And that's the way they were going to do it. Instead, we got this deal with this extension with JT Miller. And so you're kind of trapped in that area of, well, we might not be as good as Edmonton, Calgary, Vegas, and Los Angeles to just focus on the Pacific, but we're still going to go for it anyway. Like, what do we talk about? The worst place to be is right in the middle. No rewards.

What's the old Sam Kinison line? If you're going to miss heaven, don't miss it by two inches. I think it goes back to what we just, we talked about the beginning of the podcast is easier to say until it's you looking in the mirror. Yeah.

This just said to me that the, the Vancouver Canucks, they want to try to contend. Maybe the tip off to this one wasn't necessarily the JT Miller deal, but maybe it was the Ilya Mikheyev deal. The four-year $19 million deal, we should have looked at and said, hang on a second here. Maybe this isn't going to be the great teardown in Vancouver. And maybe we shouldn't have been that surprised at the JT Miller signing. Look, I think the Miller signing was surprising. And I think it was even a little bit surprising to Miller.

What does this mean for a Bo Horvat extension? I'm almost worried to say that the last I heard there was not much going on there because what is Vancouver just proven that anything can change in a second. Yeah. But the, you know, the last I'd heard there wasn't much going on there you know for example i've got to think that a horvat extension is going to look in terms of overall value maybe it might not be the same structure but i gotta think it's going to be about the same teams were calling them last year about horvat and they were saying, no, don't even bother.

Is there any reason to believe that that's going to change? Someone was saying to me, they signed Miller, they can't sign Horvat now. I don't believe that. I don't believe that at all. There's no reason you can't sign him too. If you want to sign someone, you can find a way. But it's really interesting.

It'll be interesting to hear Alvin talk when he does on Tuesday because this whole summer went from Horvath's our priority and I don't know about Miller to here we are on Labor Day and Miller is signed kind of out of nowhere at what I think is a fair market deal and Horvat's still not signed yet. So I think that's kind of what we're all wondering here. Is there any reason to believe this has changed?

But I don't see there's any reason why they can't re-sign him unless he feels they're low-balling him we'll see what happens i have a hard time believing that vancouver doesn't redo bohorvat like he's too good like this guy was going to be on the olympic team this year probably he's a team canada guy like he's a hell of a player could have 40 goals this year if not for covid and an injury all right so to the other massive deal that has a lot of eyebrows raised, seven years, $50 million for Tage Thompson of the Buffalo Sabres.

First line center, 38 goals, 68 points. He jumps from 1.4 million to 7.1 on the AAV. And I think a lot of people looked at it and said okay he had a great year but you still have one more season to have a look at him under his last deal until you make a decision for many this one felt like a premature signing did it for you a premature signification signification yes very nice use of the word i was surprised this one also kind of came out of nowhere you look at calgary calgary recovered this year by getting huberto and weger but i do wonder if some of the teams looked at what happened with calgary and said, we're going to guard against that.

I look at that Tage Thompson deal with Buffalo, and first of all, they know the player. Nobody knows him better than the Sabres do. And Don Granato knows the player. He's got some history seeing Tage Thompson around before. So they do feel comfortable that they know the player. But I do wonder if they sat there and looked at what happened with a guy like matthew kachuk and said tage thompson could in theory play out the last year of his current deal go to arb and then walk walk away yeah like i can't help but look at that deal and say that had to have

some factor in it the sabers had to look at that and say are we comfortable with that are we going to take our bet now i think that's a great deal for the player i'm really happy for thompson there was one guy who said to me i'm not sure i like this deal like what could you possibly not like about this deal and he says well if tage thompson keeps scoring 30 goals a year then he's going to be underpaid i'm like okay you're sure you're right but jesus he's had just one season like this, and he's being offered $50 million. Now, some people would go bet on themselves. On the flight back from France, I watched King Richard. So did I.

Yeah, I watched the same thing, yeah. And there's the scene where Nike comes in to pitch Richard Williams and Venus, and they offer $3 million. $3 million, yeah. And they're like, no, we'll bet on themselves. And eventually Venus gets 12 from Reebok. And I was thinking about that scene, but not everybody would do that.

And I do know there were some teams that just hated, hated that deal. But if you're Buffalo, you've got to do what you think is best for yourself. You can't worry about what anybody else says. You've got to do what you think is best for yourself. You can't worry about what anybody else says. You've got to do what you think is right. But I know there are some agents who said, we're going to go to some of our players who have been struggling

and say, that's a comparable now. Like if you go out and you have that kind of a year, you can get that kind of a deal. And there's teams that are going to be bracing for it. Like, you know, there's going to be players that have been struggling, they hit it big, and now Tate Thompson's going to be there. So the one thing I'm really happy for Thompson is like that Ryan O'Reilly deal was such a disaster for Buffalo. I think I've told this story before, but I remember doing a story on Carl Pavano and Tony Armas Jr. They were traded from

Boston to Montreal for Pedro Martinez. And I remember interviewing them the first year after they were traded and they were already weary about it. And there's something to being the answer to that trivia question, who was traded for this guy? And that's the reason I'm happiest for Tate Thompson know he's got something tangible he's just gotta keep doing it two things really really good happened to tage thompson last season well now three when you include the contract one they moved him to center and i was one of the skeptics right away i thought wow is this a complete you know desperation hail Mary what are they doing here and it worked out great and the other was who they got in the Jack Eichel deal because

Tage Thompson and Alex Tuck were outstanding together like alongside I want to throw Jeff Skinner in there as well but specifically Tage Thompson and alex tuck together were fantastic to the point where i really hope that tage thompson's at least third phone call you know after he called a couple of important family members was to alex tuck to help thank him for this deal because they were spectacular together which now leads us to another deal that hasn't been made yet. But when you talk about young players ringing the bell, I want to talk about Jason Robertson. But before we do, I want to mention his teammate, Jake Ottinger, who signs a three-year, $12 million deal,

$4 million on the AAV. We all know what happened with Ottinger last year. The story worked out perfectly. This was a story that Dallas laid out. There was this goaltending carousel. There was Holtby. There was Hudobin. There was Bishop. And then there was Ottinger. Remember, what are they going to do with all these goaltenders? And we all suspected and all kind of knew that Jake Ottinger was a goaltender of the future. They just wanted to put a couple of speed bumps in front of him here.

Starts the American Hockey League. You know, go down there, dominate, come up, feel your way into the NHL, grab the number one job. And next thing you know, boom, you got your first big contract here. And that happened. And I think what, I mean, it's an obvious statement for me, what really cemented that, you know, this guy is reminding people of a young Carey Price was that Calgary series

where he was fantastic, like next level goaltending. He was amazing. Three years, $12 million. Your thoughts on the Ottinger deal, which is really kind of just the Carter Hart deal, isn't it? It's basically what I think a lot of people expected. Dallas is not in a position right now where they can really do term on any of these people.

A bridge was kind of what I thought was going to happen. And like I said, like you said, sorry, I think it's a very fair deal on Ottinger, and I think it's going to be one of those ones that works out both ways. He's going to make a lot of money, and they're going to get good value on their number one goal and then when that deal is over a lot of the big contracts expire yes for the Dallas Stars so they will have some room to do

an even bigger deal should Jake Ottinger continue uh the way he's performed okay 41 goals 79 points you can make a uh albeit in a minor key, heart trophy argument for Jason Robertson and how he played last season. And we all know that this guy is going to get paid. To your point, terms and issue for the Dallas Stars, we've heard the owner talk about paying young players, et cetera, et cetera. You know, the two big things that have changed,

I think, in the last few years is the absence of the second contract. And so, you know, a kid in the third year of his entry level puts up 40 goals. Now he wants to make $7 million. So, and, you know, if you want term with that player, he's going to take you higher than that. So that's a big change. And, you know, what's really happening is the Stars are taking all the money. And the guys in the middle are getting squeezed.

So the differences are the veterans who don't score a lot are getting squeezed. And I don't like it. I think there's a lot of players in the league making a million dollars who are better players. And then the guys who can put the puck in the net are getting too big a piece of the pie. But this is going to be a big deal, isn't it? This is going to be a big deal for Jason Robertson.

Until I'm proven wrong, my guess is it comes in around the Pedersen-Barzal three times seven-ish area. I just don't think they have the ability to do this deal for term. If they couldn't do Ottinger for term, then they certainly can't do Robertson for term, I don't think.

Unless there's another move that's coming there that I don't see right now, I wouldn't expect Robertson right now for term. My guess is we're around the 3.7-ish range. When you look at their cap span, this is going to put them right up against it, no matter what happens here. But I think if you go any higher than 7 or 7.5,

you're going to have to move a body. Yeah. Like there was someone that mentioned to me that, you know, he wouldn't be surprised if Robertson's camp was using Kirill caprizoff as a comparable and that's nine and that's a scary number that's five years that would have to be absolutely yes but that's a five-year deal like i just don't they can't do that right now no they can't unless somebody's going right and right now i think if it's it's either seven or seven and a

half they can still do it without having to move a body. But I think anything higher than that for each, they'd have to move somebody. I think that's going to come in around three times seven, my guess. Before we get to Vegas, and I want to mention Phil Kessel and Aiden Hill, Evan Rodriguez, what do you hear? What do you know?

I think there's a chance this one gets sorted out this week. I've heard there's a bit of interest or quite a bit of interest in him. What I've heard is that he's just trying to pick out. It's one of those things where you look at where can you get the best value deal? Where do you get the biggest role and kind of make it all work there? I've heard that one of the teams that's in there is Anaheim and it makes sense.

They can pay them and they can flip them. Like if you look at what Anaheim and it makes sense they can pay them and they can flip them like if you look at what Anaheim did with Klingberg that could be another situation they can pay them and then they could flip them and you know Evan Rodriguez has not got the same ceiling as Klingberg does but it's the same kind of thing the Ducks could do so when I heard that the Ducks are one of the teams looking at this, it made perfect sense to me. I definitely don't think they're the only one. Calgary's been around there. I'm just not sure that the Flames are going to be able to have the flexibility to do it. I think there's another Canadian team or two that's kicking around there. There's a few teams in and around there,

including teams I didn't mention here because I can't pin them all down. But I do think we could get some clarity on this one this week. I also want to mention Kirby Dock. Eric Engels was on the radio in Montreal last week and mentioned that we'd been looking into this. And I think Dock is pretty close to pretty far down the road, if not done. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a four-year deal i think eric mentioned it four-year deal somewhere around the three and a half range i think also montreal might

still be trying to do some things before getting doc officially done done done but i think they're pretty close you know speaking of uh free agents getting done, done, done, restricted free agents, that is, whether it's Rasmus Sandin or a couple of young L.A. defensemen, Mikey Anderson, Sean Dursey, or Barrett Hayton in Arizona. Are there some other stories you're kind of paying attention to as you warm up back into the season? I think there's a few things I mean Nathan McKinnon we talked about that one a couple of weeks ago that it sounds like that is going to be potentially a very big number you know one of the other things I heard I was talking with someone today I think there's going to be some pressure in a few places early in the season you know and obviously this will be this will be something we talk about over the next couple of weeks,

but I think there are some teams that the way the year starts, if it gets off to a bad start, it has a chance not to be pretty in some places. You know, one thing I'd heard is, you know, there's a lot of eyes on Philly this year. I heard those players were warned that you better show up ready for training camp this year. Like this is not going to be one of those

things and Tortorella generally is not known for it, but this is not going to be one of those situations where you're going to be allowed to tiptoe into camp. You know, I heard from one of the players that they were basically warned that if you're not ready to go, you're going to be left behind. And we will have no hesitation leaving people behind. I wonder if one of those teams could also be Vegas.

And we all know how the season ended in Vegas last year and what that did within the organization and how everybody felt from ownership all the way down. And the two most recent bits of business from Vegas, Phil Kessel comes in one year, 1.5. And Aiden Hill, in exchange for a fourth round draft pick, comes in in the last year of a contract that pays him $2.1 million. We all know about Robin Leonard and the hip surgery.

He'll miss the season. Laurent Boissois is coming off of hip surgery Logan Thompson who really put it all out there last year for Vegas at the end and we all think of all those shootouts that he had to endure and was exceptional in you know I've been told that he might have been you know a little bit dinged up towards the end of last season as well your thoughts on these two? Phil Kessel comes in from Arizona, where he talked about playing on a team that, I'm paraphrasing here, didn't necessarily want to win

and just wanted to get younger. And Aiden Hill, who comes in from the San Jose organization. I mean, Kessel, it's not going to take long this year. He's going to have a chance to tie the game's played record early in the season. He's going to have a chance to tie the game's played record early in the season yep he's going to have a chance to go for a thousand in a row he can tie it against toronto he can beat it the next night in san jose and he's got a chance to go for a thousand in a row against arizona i think kessel was one of those guys who was like naz would you sign with a team

already so i can know where I'm playing this season? I think there were a few players like that, Elliot, that was waiting for the Nazem Kadri logjam. I think Vegas is going to be one of the most fascinating teams. There's always something to watch when it comes to that team. I think they're going to be one of the most fascinating teams to watch this year. Well, I also want to mention Mike Sullivan re-ups with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

They lock up their head coach who here's what I wonder. Is he now the highest paid coach in the NHL? I believe him and Cooper, and I'm not sure if they're tied or, but I believe they're the two highest paid coaches. Congratulations to my Cooper, not counting Babcock, right?

Who's retired now. You know, that was a weird story to me. Like, I thought he left, he announced he wasn't coming back like four months ago. There were stories four months ago that he wasn't coming back. So I was surprised about that story. I will not be surprised if he coaches in the NHL again. I will not be surprised.

I think it's going to happen after his contract with Toronto is up. You want to talk about a whopper of a story? That will be a whopper of a story. Before we get to our two interviews, Victor Hedman and Pierre-Edouard Belmar of the Tampa Bay Lightning. Congratulations to Team Canada, World Hockey Championships. The women beat the USA by a final score of 2-1

and they win the gold. A heck of 12 months for Team Canada, two World Championships and an Olympic gold as well. And it was CEO of Hockey Canada, Scott Smith, handing out the medals after the game. You have a thought on this one? Yeah, it really bothered

me. Look, there's all of the obvious reasons why that was a terrible idea. I don't think we need to rehash them. Everybody knows what's going on. And like, I didn't watch it. I heard about it later. I actually went back and looked at the end and saw it. And it was one of those things, you're looking at it and you still can't believe it. And the thing that really bothered me about it, aside from all of the obvious reasons, and you know, I'm a person who believes that we still don't have all the facts yet. And I want to see, you know, where this goes and where the various investigations go and where we go from here. So I'm not a person who is close-minded to the possibility.

Are there things here that we are not aware of? But number one, the thing that bothered me was that it overshadowed a huge victory for the players. People weren't talking about what you just said, an incredible calendar year for the Canadian women. People were talking about that. And that's the thing about it. It was selfish. It just reveals you to be incredibly selfish. I don't think the word selfish actually is adequate enough to explain how bad it was,

to be perfectly honest. When you're in a leadership position or you're in control of an organization like Hockey Canada at the time of a crisis like this, your major responsibility is to create confidence in the parents, the fans, the players, the sponsors, everybody, that you have the gravitas to say, whatever was done wrong here, not only are we going to fix it, but we're going to bring ourselves out of it better. What that showed to me was that the people in charge, the leaders, they don't care about that. They only care about themselves, the way that they are perceived, and a desire to fight back against perceived slights. That was about spite. That was. And I'm not a person who likes to complain a lot I generally roll my eyes at things that a lot of people do and I really don't like moralizing

because I'm no better than anybody else and I make plenty of my own mistakes but I looked at that and I said, if I was a parent, would I see at that as a group of people who care about the Hockey Canada umbrella, or do they only just care about themselves? If I was a player or a coach or an administrator or anybody involved around the country, would I look at that and see people who care about what's best for the entire entity of the organization, everybody in it, or do they only care about themselves? And if I was a sponsor and, you know, it's pretty obvious to me that the plan here is that they were going to get through this summer

and then everything was going to be normal once the world junior tournament returned at christmas but if i was a sponsor would i look at that and say these are people who would care about the best way to represent our brand or do they only care about themselves? And I think we all know what the answer is. I don't really know what else I could say about it. I watched that and I couldn't believe it. And I'm not a person who really gets shocked by too much anymore because you've been around the world 52 years. You think you've seen almost anything. I was astonished by that. I just think that when you're in charge, you're supposed to lead. And there are good leaders and there are bad leaders. And even good leaders make bad decisions.

Good leaders make bad decisions all the time. And the whole thing is, okay, how do you fix it? How do you learn from it? To me, this was a willfully bad decision. This was, we're right. Everybody out there is wrong. We're going to show how right we think we are. And for Hockey Canada at this time, that was the wrong, wrong move. And I just thought it was awful. What I thought about was part of the conversation with a number of the players who wondered about whether they should play the tournament to begin with. On the one hand, they didn't want their time diminished for something that they didn't do. They didn't want their World Championships considering, and we all know what the women's schedule is like to begin with, they didn't want that diminished. But at the same time,

they also did want to make sure that they voiced their opinions. And they did in a very public letter, as we talked about here and they talked about what a new hockey Canada should be and coming out of this with a new hockey Canada and the one thing that that stuck out to me in in those conversations was the idea of we want to play for Canada but we don't want to play for hockey Canada. And that's what I kept coming back to when I saw that one, Elliot. Look, we all know selfish people. Hey, again, I'm not perfect. I wish I was, but I'm certainly not. That was beyond selfish. was but I'm certainly not that was beyond selfish when people look at Hockey Canada's board and Hockey Canada's leadership and say it has to go that decision on Sunday afternoon if anybody

didn't think that that was right before I don't know how you could disagree with it now and again as I said before there's still a lot of things here we don't know, but that kind of leadership, it's unfit to lead at a time like this. Unfit. If you've never heard Pierre-Edouard Belmar of the Tampa Bay Lightning speak, you are indeed in for a treat. We're going to hear from the Tampa Bay forward, and then we'll hear from Tampa Bay defenseman Victor Hedman in a couple of moments. Belmar's story is an interesting one. You know, he didn't join the NHL until he was 29 years old,

signed by the Philadelphia Flyers, went to the Vegas Golden Knights in the expansion draft. We know all about him playing in Colorado, and now most recently with the Tampa Bay Lightning. And Elliot, when I say, name me a French hockey player, who's the first person you think of, like right away? Philip Bozon.

Same, right? St. Louis Blues. I'm the same way. The first was Andre Palofi, who played, I think, like a dozen games for the Washington Capitals in the disastrous 1974-75 season.

I should also say Roussel. Roussel as well. Cristobal Huet is another one that might come to people's minds right away. The Bordelos. Absolutely, for sure. Belmar is a fascinating player, a real tough player, like a real honest hockey player, and a really fantastic interview, as you're about to hear. And even though he lives in Sweden, he is, of course, from France, a suburb just outside

of Paris. And we had a chance a couple of weeks ago to sit down with someone in his homeland. Here's Pierre-Edouard Belmar from Paris. And you like to do it. And for me, like I said, it's been when I do this, I don't think about hockey. I don't think about anything. And I think that helped me make it because you can't to do it. And for me, like I said, when I do this, I don't think about hockey,

I don't think about anything, and I think that helped me make it, because you can't stress about it. You have to focus on whatever you're doing. This is all... I'm listening to this, and this is all stuff that belongs... I remember this conversation.

Okay, here we go. Coming down in three, two... Am I watching you guys? Yes. Three, two, and. Pierre-Edouard Belmar is home. I know you're living in Sweden right now, but here we are in Paris, in France.

What's it like to be home again? It's pretty cool. It is. It's kind of a cool thing to, I know everybody loves Paris and everything, but have the NHL making some kind of event here. it's really fun it's always been you know the the hockey countries so it's fun for them to come to my country and also i'm a real french i'm proud of the food and all of it and the old buildings and not having people see all of it is also making

quite happy how many texts did you get from players here saying where should I go or what should I see? Quite a few actually. Yeah, I believe it. Because like I mean I moved from Paris when I was 16 so you know

sometimes I tell them well I mean I don't really know all the places but the truth is my sister lives not so far from here so usually I get

every year I get one player either send me a text or an email from somebody in the organization that I played in oh I'm going to France.

What do you have for recommendation? So I have something prepped, you know, like what to see, how many days and everything. But the guys asked me, I said, I was pretty sure that the team, the NHL have something in the room or from the hotel. You can't really go wrong when you stay at that hotel anyway. No. Now, so if I was to ask you, what is the number one thing i have to do in paris what would you say lose yourself i like that answer yeah like you have to do some of the touristy things because unfortunately like they're cool like you know like it's pretty simple like

the eiffel tower like if you go with your wife suddenly you're the most romantic man in the world but you haven't done nothing you're just there right but you have notre dame and the sacre code that shows like sad that you kind of have to see but then the best part for me is like we went to the sacre car with my wife when i finally said all right let's go to paris together and i remember i lost myself she was like you lost i said 100 because it's not like a block town. It's like really intricate. And we found this old place. And it was like serve lunch until 2.

It was 1.30. So we come in and there is an old French woman. And the food was absolutely amazing. And she said, oh, sit here. And the windows was kind of closed. She opened and we had like straight view to the Eiffel Towers and all the roofs of Paris. And I was like, I didn't even know that.

The look on Google, that restaurant wasn't anywhere. And it was kind of this place that you have to find when you lose yourself. So it's pretty cool this way. You know, one of the things that we talked about a lot this season is don't bet against Tampa. Yep. Don't bet, no matter what the odds are. Don't, that's right, be careful.

Oh, they're down 3-0. Don't bet against Tampa. In that room, when you see people betting against Tampa, what does it do to all you guys? No, it's obviously a little bit of fuel. You know, like what that I don't see. Obviously, when you're in the locker room and you believe you're going to go all the way,

when people bet against you, you're kind of thinking like they're fools. But Tampa, now I've learned that by being there, like you realize that one of the

best thing that that team we have is that there's no cockiness about realizing how bad we've played. You know, like we're,'re okay we were shit that's okay we were shit

that happened to everybody the toughest part is to how you switch that right how you change that whether you're really ready to sacrifice to be better

and this is the thing there is no player in the locker room that is like too big for the team to be like you know what next game I'm going to do

the same thing even if it didn't work and that's why the team we end up looking so differently because the staff is really confident we know what we have to do to to build success and if you follow those commands most of the time you will look good into the team span it's a team sport i mean i'm not playing tennis single so i would rather look better with the team than look good by myself and then not being playoff. And I think there is

a lot of guys that think this way. You know, that Stanley Cup final last year, and you know Colorado very well, obviously. That was one of the best

finals I've ever seen. And the reason I felt that was because you always want a seventh game because a seventh game is thrilling. But, there were

50 guys who played in that series and there were no passengers. No. And both teams players were going through walls. Like everybody played hard. Yeah. And I wonder in terms of the series you've played in, was that one of the toughest just in terms of how much you had to fight for every inch on that ice? Yeah. terms of how much you had to fight for every inch on that ice yeah i mean the games were tight despite the fact that you have you know on each side you have like talents that are can usually

can go through the whole thing but both teams were playing solidly defensive like defensive games so it was tight and this is kind of what you want you know the game kind of mirror more of a fourth line game you know if the playoff becomes good because it shouldn't be like three on twos fireworks all over the place and you knew like alright you know what

like you gotta be careful because they are as dangerous as we can be so you do that mistake in that place of the

rink it's gonna cost you it was a fun series didn't end up like we wanted to but I don't think there is any players

that are gonna come out of that thinking like you know what I took that shift off or and this is why it hurt so much because to be able to go to the final you have to have guys that play hurt you have two guys are ready to sacrifice to go all the way otherwise you finish in April if you're like ah you know what I can't take a day off on this one but if usually teams I go to the final at the end of the final, you hear the injury list

and it's on each side. It's just nuts and it's part of why we love the game. You're ready to sacrifice everything for that cup, right? And despite that, you couldn't really tell in the eyes that they were guys that were so injured.

So I think that was, obviously, like I said, I would rather win it, but at the end of the day, it was a heck of a series. Who are some of the players on your side that you looked at day in and day out and I said, I would rather win it, but at the end of the day, it was a heck of a series. Who are some of the players on your side that you looked at day in and day out and you said, I can't believe this guy's still playing?

I mean, we had a game against Florida because we blocked so many freaking shots that series. That was game two. And guys were coming out of the freaking ice straight and one back and it was kind of more like you know you take the shot and they don't feel good we all know it but like you go on the and you're like this is impossible i can't i can't walk and then you go down the corridor and then like walk walk walk and you're like all right heck it i go back you know because like you're like it's this much of time i can probably help the team this way and but the one that like impressed me i think was

cereal because a lot of his injuries were we didn't know like how bad he was everything he just played through it and i mean the list was on and i think you go to colorado side and you probably can have the same questions but um I play with Tampa and Cirelli I was like he still has to play that top line constantly and he was

playing like he couldn't lift his shoulders so that was like that was really impressive you know

Hedman's coming in we'll talk to him in a few minutes but one of the Colorado guys said that the thing that made them laugh

the most is that, you know, they won the cup, they're celebrating, you guys are waiting to shake their hands, and Hedman's yelling at the linesman because he feels an offside was missed in the last 15 seconds. Yeah. And he said, like, these guys have won two in a row and they're not satisfied.

What was it like in that dressing room after that um it was kind of a weird mix because you're pissed and you kind of like don't believe it either you have that disbelief that this is not happening and also there's you're mad because you know the cold i remiss sort of call but it took well over three weeks for me to swallow that pill when now i can talk about it but i understand but he was like i realized that you know tampa they won and to win it's not just about who you have on your team and your locker room there is way more than that there is you know the lock aspect the puck lock aspect and there's a timing and you have your timing and i mean i remember watching the tamp Tampa game two years ago

and thinking like, you know what? They won, but this was too many men on the ice. And then when you're on the other side, you don't care. You just want that to be right. And at the end of the game, you're just mad, quite frankly. I get it. Otherwise, if it would be that easy, we wouldn't be talking about that cup

like it's the best thing ever you're right like a lot of things have to happen like a lot of things have to click and it makes it easier when you have a goaltender like Andre Vasilevsky

that is sick just judging by your I just say the word just say his name you guys like it was so funny because like

you know the guy and when you play with him you know how technical he is and how tough on himself he is and this is why sometimes

some of the frustration that he shows is hard to control because like he's going to do everything he's kind of a little bit like you know Nate McKinnon

like he's going to do everything for the team to win so then he can get mad if you don't do everything you can for the team to win right

and it was funny because like you look at the stats that win rights and it was funny because like you look at the stats that you guys pull up and these guys never lost a game after this kind of kind of game performance and then you start the game and you see right from the the warm-up and you're like oh shit he's on and then like whatever happened on the ice whatever the puck clock still like finish the game and the stats just keep piling up and you're like oh yeah they were kind of right but you on the locker room you see it there is something different like come to the rink and it's something different all the goal is a little weird so he's a kind of a

weird guy but a really nice guy and um i have a pretty good relationship with him so it's pretty fun uh but i can tell you that he's like you can tell like when he's in the mood like you know what heck with it nobody is going to come near me today like that's fun because he's not a diver he doesn't show a lot of you know emotions

but he's big he's explosive I mean it's just a machine there's a lot of elite level players on this team yeah when you look at Nikita Kucherov like as fans or people in the media we'll look at Kucherov and we'll see what we see like look at nikita kucherov like as fans or people in the media will look at kucherov and we'll see what we see like i always look at kucherov and i say

i just look at the puck come off his stick and i say like did he even roll his wrists like it's just it just flew off his stick like sickening magical yeah when you i mean you're a player when you see his game like what goes through your mind like what are you going on the ice the next day try to do the same thing and I'm like, what did he do? Like I'm, this is the, I used to think like, oh, if you're a player, you have to stay in the same organization.

Otherwise, you know, you're not being successful. But I've got to go in different organizations. I've got to play with different talents and see what they do. And him, it's another one where you're like, you know, he's on the ice before guys. I think he restarted the ice

just a week after the last game. This yeah i'm pretty sure he did like just to work and he doesn't do like you know the craziest thing he's gonna be there and just work on his skills and during the season like i remember i uh i get hurt and i was talking to him about something he's like why you should do this and i was like okay i'm gonna try this and then my game got a little bit better and i was thinking like okay you know what i'm just gonna sometime pick his brain about stuff and just talk and i remember there was a few goals that he had this year where he passed the puck the puck came hard around right and he's on his backhand and he just receive it and throw it perfect pass timer and it's just in the net and the shot is beautiful

but the freaking pass i think taking hard rims on the backhand and controlling it is might be on the floor is one thing you know some guys like take it on the backhand like has like a hook you know you receive it and but on the back and how i think it's one of the hardest things to do in the game and we sit there the next day first thing i do on the ice i come with the coach i'm like throw me a few just to see and those pucks just are alive in my blade they do whatever they want it's like my kids they just like explode off my freaking blade and i'm thinking like how does he do that and then he comes on the ice and he redo it he redoes the same thing like then this is all these little tricks and you know it's it's not just talent he has a talent but this guy really works on his trade

and this is really impressive to watch and this is what kids should watch more. It should be more commercialized, like not just the highlights, like those guys, those top guys, they're there putting on the work every time. That's why they are so special.

There's one thing I want to talk to you about and your teammates have said you're one of the more interesting guys in the NHL and one of the reasons are your off-ice interests and I talk to you about and your teammates have said you're one of the more interesting guys in the NHL. And one of the reasons are your off ice interests. And I talked to you about this a few years ago and I wanted to get it on camera and tape.

You're, you're, you're, no, it's not, it's not bad. It's, it's your renovations. Like you don't do the plumbing, you don't do the electricity, but when you purchase homes or renovate places, you do it. I mean, through,

so through a season, I try to not to, it's really difficult. Yeah. Cause I really like to do it. But then in the summer I do a lot. I don't know. It became,

it wasn't planned. Like he was more like, you know, while we're, we were supposed to stay in Sweden and, and stay there for over seven years. And then we find a place and then a few weeks later,

boom, the NHL, you sign at 29. Yeah. Oh, we need a new kitchen because my wife has her company and she has to start filming

her clips and everything. Let's build a kitchen but I plan on learning to do that for three years and now I only have it. So every night, I'm on YouTube watching how to do that,

videos, guys, and I had like experts coming you know like for example he spent every Monday he comes and he tells me like a carpenter and I show him what I've done and he said like this is not good enough destroy redo because you do it yourself it costs you less right so you're okay doing it yeah and I've learned a little bit but a little bit and I've realized you know what during the time I do that I don't think about a hockey or anything I'm actually focusing on what I'm doing and the thought was always in the beginning you know i'm 29 year old my wife is

a gastrocele and i'm a hockey player like what i'm going to teach my kids you know i've always seen like we have to be in a relationship so that both of our kids girl or boy can see like you know we both work and i was thinking my wife like right 29 i don't know how long i'm gonna play which we planned until 30 32 and i need to learn something else and that's how that's how it started and now i'll figure out you know what at least i can do that with my kid and teach him some trades and maybe the you know the idea of you don't have to just go and pay for everything you can just learn to do some stuff by yourself and it became contagious and you come become more proud of what you do and and then suddenly it's easier to talk

to people oh yeah i've done this i've done this i've done this and and now i'm okay doing it so you don't do plumbing no you don't do electrical no is there anything So you don't do plumbing? No. You don't do electrical? No. Is there anything else you don't do? Well, I've been advised to not use any of those big machines too, to be careful, you know, to make sure I have all my digits, my fingers and stuff. Is that covered off in your contract?

That's the thing. Like, you know, for example, like, you know, go on top of the roof and changing the roof. Like this year I had to say like, you know what, let's take a company because I go on top of the roof and changing the roof like this year I had to say like you know what

let's take a company because I was on top there and I was like yeah that feels like a little bit too dangerous I don't think that's going to come are you afraid of heights

no but I was just thinking like this is just a hobby you know hockey is not the hobby so but you know it's a fun thing for me that I've learned

to do and sometime when you know in the beginning of the season when they ask you that I've learned to do and sometime when you know in the beginning of the season when they ask you kind of what is your hobby and they expect you to say shopping

and I'm like renovating or fishing renovating house and they look at me like what are you talking about so but it's fun to be able to

I don't know if your wife tells you like I would love to do this and you're like oh yeah yeah I can do that I know how to do it and I've seen a video

I can redo it again like so that's kind of what I like. I think it's awesome. Thank you. That is. Listen, wonderful season. I know it was a little bit bitter at the end,

but what a performance by you guys. Look forward to next season. Thank you so much, guys. Appreciate it. Thank you. Just as we wrap up, great interview. When we tweeted out a photo, Jeff, of us sitting with a Belmar,

Ufa Bodine from Sweden. I've been a guest, but guests of this podcast before, I don't remember what his exact tweet was, but it was something like either. I dare you to find a nicer NHL player, or he simply is the nicest NHL player. And so there,

you know, everybody, why, why Ufa wrote that. And it's completely true. Ufe approved. He's Bodine approved. And someone else, like I'm sure Ufe would also approve of our next guest.

I don't know what more we can say about Victor Hedman. Future Hall of Famer, Norris winner, Stanley Cup champion, best defenseman, all of it. I don't know at this point, elliot what more we can do to come up with an introduction for for victor headman but do you want to give it a shot well i'm just happy he confirmed one story i heard about him so that's what i was that's what i was excited about find out what that is next here's victor headman on 32 thoughts the podcast uh victor hedman the tampa bay lightning joining us once again here on the podcast uh victor first of all thanks so much for doing this i want to ask about your off season want to ask about upcoming season but let's go back to your playoff performances

he looks really excited to talk i know know, he's thrilled about this one. Watch, he's going to sell the same burning intensity that he had in the playoffs. We talked to Pierre-Edouard Belmar a couple of moments ago and talked about, you know, don't bet against Tampa. You know, we laugh when we see people betting. There's that confidence that the whole team carries with it. A lot of that is because of you.

A lot of that's because of Stamkos and Kucherov and Point and murderer's row of players but what was the experience like this time around for you I know a tough way to finish it but maybe you don't feel like you accomplish things when you lose that last game but that was an impressive run by Tampa again yeah like you said I think if you look back at it and um you know for us to be in the final three straight years uh you know you don't see that very often and uh you know so proud of how we kind of bounce back from stuff uh adversity you know people probably counted us out first game against toronto people definitely counted us out against the rangers

after losing the first two and you know he just shows the character we have in that room we believe in ourselves and we believe that we can bounce back but obviously falling

short is it's not easy and like I said to the motivation or motivation but you want to do it for the guy next to you you want to

do it for the guy that haven't had the opportunity to to lift that cup over your head. And Bell is one of those guys who's, you know, been close a couple of times but haven't reached that goal. And, you know, for us to, you know, do it for them, that's what kind of drives us.

And, you know, we obviously want to change the outcome to what happened last year, but we believe in our group and we believe what we have to make it back there again. Victor, a couple of the Colorado players said that one of the things that really stood out for them was when they were celebrating on the ice, they heard some yelling and a couple of them turned and you were mad that an icing wasn't called

in the last 15 seconds. And they said that it only increased their respect for you and the Lightning, but they could not believe that a team that had won back-to-back Stanley Cups and came within two wins of getting a third in a row, and you were that mad in that moment. It really stuck out to them.

Yeah. I mean, that's what I is uh what makes our team special too is that we uh you know just because you won two in a row doesn't mean that you're you know you're just gonna fold over like it gets intense and you want to win that's the bottom line as a hockey player you want to win and um you know obviously it felt bad after you know you look back at that you feel bad for um you know i don't know which ref it was I was yelling at. I think it was one of the linesmen. Yeah, probably.

But I probably felt they could have called it off earlier or called in an icing. I felt like they waved it off after he crossed the line, but probably wouldn't have changed the outcome. But just that intense and in that moment, it's such a big stage, and you don't want to be on the losing side but um you know like i said i probably wouldn't chase the outcome but that's where i took out my

frustration and probably not the right place but uh at the same time you're you want to win and um sometimes it boils over but uh we're not going to apologize for who we are. And I think that's what has gotten us to where we have in the past few years. I agree. Every offseason for Tampa, when you're successful and new contracts come up and you want to keep your guys together, difficult decisions have to be made. Whether it's Ryan McDonough, Andre Palat, did you have any idea throughout the season? I mean, we can all look at you know cap friendly and see

okay how's tampa gonna do this how they're gonna make this all fit was that ever a a discussion point think about it think that this might happen like i'm always curious about you know sort of what fuels hey we got to win one more because this might be the last time that we do it with palat and mcdonough and whomever else. Yeah, I think that's on our second ring, you know, last day of school because we knew we were going to have to lose guys. And, you know, that was when, you know, Goodrell left, you know, Coleman left, Luke Shen left, you know, guys were leaving. Tyler Johnson left, who's been a big part of our team for a very long time.

You know, Yanni Gord left, you know, kind of last day of school. And that was kind of the same thing. Again, we knew we were right up there against the cap. We know guys are going to have to resign and we can't fit everyone. And obviously because of COVID a little bit, or not a little bit, but because of COVID, you know, the cap has stayed flat. And it's made it tough not only for us but for other teams as well to, you know, keep everyone. But, you know, that's motivation for sure that, you know, we knew that this year was the last time, you know, that group were going to play together. But, you know, it doesn't make it easier when you actually see it happen in the offseason. Do the players have any problem with the McDonough thing? I always wonder, do players get upset about that? I mean, we're not happy that he's not with us anymore, but we knew change was going to

have to happen, especially with Sergeyev, Sharon Axarello, we knew they were going to have to sign new deals, and it's never easy to see a guy like that go but you know at the end of the day we know it's a business and you know we know our gm is trying to do what's best for the team but you know it's obviously not easy to see a player like that has been so instrumental to our success uh leave and um you know you get uh frustrated you get mad but at the end of the day it doesn't change the way I view it, our team or our organization. I know they're trying to do what they think is best for our team.

And, you know, we have to live with, you know, seeing Mac playing in Nashville and do what he does there. But, you know, the bottom line is that we look at our group in our room and we still get a big piece of our core still intact. And we got guys coming in that have to fill their roles and step into their shoes and play a bigger role. And it's up for us leaders to lead the way.

One quick follow-up on Palat. He was there for so long, was there for big moments, both positive and negative, there for so long was there for big moments both positive and negative you know there for the the the cups but also there for the the Columbus series they went through a lot and you were there through all of it uh as well what did he and you bought a soccer team together yeah and you bought a soccer team football team we're. We're in France. We're in Europe. Exactly, exactly. I've sort of looked, I look at his game and I see so much like, he's like a little mini Hossa.

What was Palat like to play with? It was a treat. During the regular season, that doesn't, you know, get the notoriety. But then when it comes to the big games, you know, he's one of the guys to step up. Big time goals, big time plays, physical, blocking shots, just a big, you know, I think he scored most game-winning goals in the history of the Lightning in the playoffs. So just his character, too.

He has tremendous teammates. He didn't need the big headlines. He didn't really care about that, to be honest, and he just wanted to win. That showed in his game as well, and pretty quiet, but a funny guy. It's going to be a lot different to see him in a different uniform because we're so used to seeing him.

He's only played with us for the past decade, so different seeing him being a devil, but he got a contract that really much deserved, and fortunately I couldn't make it work in Tampa. But, like I said, we're going to have each other when it comes to football now. So it'll be a lot of fun for us to keep him tested that way. You won't go light on those cross-checks, will you? No, no, no, no.

That's going to be a battle. I promise you that. Thanks, Greg. no, no. That's going to be a battle. I promise you that. Thanks, man. Thanks, guys. That was the great Victor Hedman. Taking us out is a four-piece band who cut their chops in Chicago's DIY scene. Deeper brings us a post-punk sound

that finds the band embracing open space And using synths to create shadows With catchy guitar riffs Very cool From their sophomore album Here's Deeper with This Heat On 32 Thoughts, the podcast May your week be as hot as Bo Bichette's weekend was was. I've been found, I've been banged

You're crossing the line you're crossing the line you're crossing the line you're crossing the line