32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Backes to the Future

Episode Date: May 7, 2021

David Backes has played for 3 teams (St. Louis, Boston and Anaheim) during his 15-year NHL career. He joined Jeff and Elliotte on the podcast (52:30) to talk about the celebration that took place on Wednesday night in St. Louis, what it was like to learn from veterans like Bill Guerin, Dallas Drake, Doug Weight […]

oh please no listen i'm a lawn guy too i understand i get it i respect the dedication to uh to the grass okay here we go coming down in three two elliot i want to get to the entire situation with the new york rangers what happened with john davidson what happened with jeff gordon what's happening now with chris drury what's happening with james do, what's happening with NHL fines. But first, I want you to put your phone down and I want you to close your eyes and just think about this scenario that I'm going to present to you. Okay. I want you to imagine it's a beautiful afternoon of deep summer. It's a lovely day, a little breeze in the air, the sun is out, you're having a nice little sit on a park bench. And you say to yourself, hmm, I'm thirsty. I'm

going to walk over to that water fountain and have a drink of water. And as you stand up, you put your wallet and your car keys on the bench and you go and you have a drink. Oh, it's refreshing, delightful. It's a hot day. You come back well refreshed. You're about to sit down and you realize that your keys and your wallet are gone. Now, in this scenario, two things have happened. One, it's wrong that your keys and wallet were stolen. And as a society, we should look upon that act and say, that's wrong. But I think at the same time too, as a society, we should probably look at Elliott Friedman and say, what the hell were you thinking? Sometimes they're just situations in life and in sports when two things can be right,

or in some cases, two things can be wrong. In the Tom Wilson situation with Artemi Panarin, I look at it two ways. One, if you're Artemi Panarin, what are you thinking? Jumping on Tom Wilson. And two, if you're Tom Wilson, that was more than a little bit of an overreaction to that situation. I've spent a lot of time thinking about this. I think we all have too. That's why I didn't want to jump on board anything right away on Twitter and just do a knee-jerk response. I look at the situation. I say that two things are possible to be here. One, we can say, what is Artemi Panarin thinking? And two, whoa, Tom Wilson, that's kind of like treating dandruff by decapitation.

You went a little overboard there, guy. How did you see the situation? First of all, I would just like to say, this is the worst start to the podcast ever. It's a great start. That is the worst. That is a horrendous start. Fantastic start.

That is a horrendous, horrendous comparison. I'm trying to show you how two things can be true in one event. First of all, in the first case, if I went to go get a drink of water and I left my wallet and keys on a picnic table, I would deserve to have them stolen. You're saying Artemi Panarin deserved to be thrown to the ice like that for jumping on the back of Tom Wilson's shirt? No, because that's why I'm saying that this is an awful start to the podcast because those two things have nothing to do with each other. Okay.

If you're dumb enough to leave your wallet and keys out in the open in a park, in a public place like that in the middle of summer, you're going to get them stolen. Some would say if you're dumb enough to jump on the back of Tom Wilson, it's not going to tickle. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. There's a difference here. Okay.

The last line in the opening of my 31 Thoughts blog this week was a lesson I'll never forget from my father. I used to have a terrible temper. And I guess you never really lose a terrible temper. You just learn to control it better. I was not good at controlling my temper. And I got a couple of really bad groundings. Remember those? Oh, yes. In high school. Because I'll tell you one story. What I did was I got mad at something. I can't

remember what I did and I punched a grandfather clock and I broke the glass on it. And my dad really liked that clock. And it was a stupid thing to do. It was, I was a hundred percent wrong. You can't do stuff like that. And he grounded me for it. I got in big trouble for it. He said to me, you will learn to control your temper or you will pay the consequences. And in this case, this is the consequence. The way I look at that situation is this. Yes, Panarin jumped on him. However, there was a point where Wilson knew who he was tangling with and he had a choice. He could have said, this guy, he's coming to the aid of his teammates.

He's clearly not trying to fight me and I can let him off or I can ragdoll him. He chose B and the player got injured to the point where he's not going to play the last three games of the year. When I saw that, I thought about myself and my temper. We've worked with PJ Stock.

We've worked with Nick Kiprios. They did that job when they played. And one of the things that they both told me was you recognize when your opponent is engaged or you recognize when your opponent realizes they're overmatched or they can't continue anymore. And it's on you to say, okay, enough is enough.

That's why I felt that way. And nothing you can say about me leaving my wallet or keys on a picnic bench in the summer to get a glass of water. And I think that would be a stupid thing to do is going to get me to change my mind. So that's why I feel the way I feel. And my opinion on that is not changing. Now, Jeff. Yes. We just worked Wednesday night hockey.

Yep. Where Washington play. Well, our game was Montreal, Ottawa. Yeah. Jeff, we just worked Wednesday night hockey where Washington played, well, our game was Montreal-Ottawa, but we all kind of lost attention on that one because of what was going on between Washington and the Rangers. Yeah. And there were some people

who didn't like something I pointed out. I got some Twitter hate on Wednesday night because I pointed out how wilson did not hit buchnevich coming behind the washington net yeah and wilson was coming from the blue line it's similar to the play he got suspended for on brandon carlo not exactly but it was similar he could have really hit buchneavich there, and he didn't. And I don't really worry too much about Twitter hate. You're going to get it.

There were some people who felt it was tone deaf or bad to do, and I would do the same thing again because to me it points out that this is a person who does know how to control his temper, and he can be a very good, effective player. He has to keep control. And that was the same lesson that my father told me as a teenager. If you do not keep control, you will suffer the consequences. And I think that's the lesson that Tom Wilson needs to learn here.

If you do not keep control, you will suffer the consequences, and the league should make him suffer the consequences. What's the line? Lessons will be repeated until they're learned? Yeah. What did you make of the Rangers' response to kick off that game? We all went into it saying, okay, I wonder if the Rangers are going to do anything.

Are they capable of doing anything? Are they going to go after Wilson? Are they going to go after a skilled player? I don't know that any of us thought there would be a line brawl to start the game, but there it was. The caps, they're a very effective line. Carl Hagelin, Nick Dowd, and Garnard Hathaway, they combine for two goals, three assists. There weaway they combined for two goals three assists three fights simultaneously Rooney and

Dowd Di Giuseppe going at it with Hathaway Blackwell and Hagelin one second in first off classy move by Blackwell he Hagelin down and he didn't throw an extra punch Hathaway and indeed Giuseppe are really getting after one another that reminds me of when John Tortorella coached the Rangers and Pete the board coached the New Jersey Devils and they got after it Kenny you were here to do that game I was here to do that game with Doc Emmerich and it got a whole lot of nasty that was a lot of nasty right there remember David Quinn he's the home coach.

He gets to put his roster in first, and you see Rooney's talking, Dowd's talking, and there's no messing around. Let's go. And I think everybody else got the message pretty early on there, Kenny. What did you make of the response? A lot of people were saying this all happened because Wilson didn't get suspended, and I think to some degree that's true, but there's something else that people are forgetting here. The Rangers spent almost 48 hours being called cowards. Listen to Brandon Smith.

And final question comes from Colin Stevenson. Colin, go ahead. Brandon, I've read a lot in the last couple days about how the Rangers as a team are, you know, the word's been used, soft, and, you know, not tough enough and stuff. And I'm wondering if you feel like you guys' response tonight disproves that in some way.

Well, let me ask you a question. Do you think we're soft? No. Okay. You answered it. They knew what everybody was saying about them. So my feeling is that even if Wilson had been suspended for that game, the Rangers were going to show we are not what you are calling us.

Now you hear the boos as Tom Wilson jumps on the ice, and now he's jumped by Brendan Smith. Right away they're going to get to it in the air circle. Smith with a right. Wilson with a big right. Right at the circle as they go at it at the red line. Back and forth rights from Smith and from Wilson as Tom Wilson now trying to be held accountable.

Smith getting into it now at the blue line, both exchanging rights. Wilson with three, four consecutive rights. Smith comes back with an uppercut. Now a right from Wilson, another right from Wilson. Smith trying to loosen his right hand. It wasn't only Wilson not getting suspended. They felt that they were challenged to prove that they had more spine. Now, people might disagree with that. People might say that's crazy. It doesn't matter what we think.

It matters what they think. To me, that was a team that reacted to show that we are not soft, even though Smith reacted the way that he did to that question. I think we all knew that that's how they were feeling. I think that's part of it as well. I think the Tom Wilson not getting suspended was part of it. Do you not get the feeling, and this was my initial thought, that when Blackwell, DiGiuseppe, and Rooney threw down with Haglund, Hathaway, and Dowd, my first thought was, endowed, my first thought was, this is the Rangers saying to the NHL, you made this.

You did this. We didn't want it to come to this, but you brought us here. To me, that almost seemed like a continuation in some ways of the public statement that the team made. There was the statement, and then there was the action. Did you not read part of that? Because I think that that opening line brawl, there's a lot of layers to it. And I think the snubbing the NHL or, you know,

pointing out to you, listen, this game is on NBC. This is the game going across. And this is what we're doing. And it's because of you. Do you not see a layer there in that situation i'm not disagreeing with you on that i think it's absolutely part of it no question about it i wonder if even internally they felt challenged like i'm just trying to imagine myself in in that situation right i never judge anybody any other way than the way I judge myself.

How would I have felt? I'm mad at the NHL for not protecting a teammate. I don't think that situation was right, but I'm also mad that for two straight days, I've heard that I can't protect myself or i'm wimpy or whatever jeff how would you feel after hearing that for two straight days i would feel the exact same way as those rangers players did yeah here's what i wonder about because players can feel like that at certain times during a game during a season during a playoff series and not act on it.

What I wonder about is, did the organization essentially give those players a green light to do something about it by putting out that statement? The Rangers put out that statement, disappointment, calling for the head of the Department of Player Safety. Is that essentially the organization saying to those players cowboy time boys go for it fill your boots because players can feel like that at any moment of any game well it's a tough thing because ever since steve moore todd bertuzzi nobody's ever going to admit to that no no i'm not saying that they went to those players and said, go for it.

But all I'm thinking of is, again, to your point about put yourself in the skates of these players. If I'm Blackwell, DiGiuseppe, Rooney, Strom, like all these guys that ended up Smith, Beteto. If I'm any of these Rangers that ended up fighting in that first period, and I see that statement from my team. I'm saying to myself, hmm, that's your organization saying, you don't have to stay in your lane here. If you want to do this, we're cool with it. Like, I'm not saying that Quinn went to anybody or Dolan went to anybody or anybody in the organization went to these players and said, time to put on the foil here but if i'm a player reading that statement and reading the temperature i say to myself the game's kind of secondary here this is about something other than the game and it kind of feels like the organization's pretty cool with that the only thing i would

say is that in a situation like this i probably i think i'm pretty much a team guy and I always try to say, okay, how does this not only affect me, but the people around me? I think in this particular case, I'd be thinking more about myself in terms of how do I feel? Because this was a case where somebody got hurt, right? So how do I feel about it? So I wouldn't affect me that way, but other people could be affected differently for sure. Elliot, if I told you that after Monday night, one of the conclusions in this Rangers capital saga was going to be George Pero suspending Pavel Bushnevich,

what would you have said? Because that's where we're at one game suspension for high sticking anthony mantha yeah i wouldn't have predicted that i've got to tell you but you know people said well the capitals got a freebie so the rangers got one too it doesn't work that way you know what kind of happened here was that the nhl has done a really good job indexing their suspensions. Like basically if something happens, you can ask, okay, what's the history here? And they can kind of tell you, all right, these are the kinds of incidents in the past that have happened. And these are what the suspensions are.

So you kind of have some predictability of what we're going to see. Now they went off the board with Wilson earlier this year. They interpreted boarding in a way that they've never done it before. And that got him a seven game suspension. So I think what happened with, they decided not to do that again. When it came to Wilson Panarin, there's no history of suspensions for what Wilson did to Panarin,

but there are histories of suspensions for Bucinavich and what he did to Manta. So, you know, I, I kind of sit here and I kind of think, okay, they went back to their normal way of doing things.

And just because Wilson got a break, it doesn't mean you can, you know, give Bucinavich one. It doesn't work like that okay did you think what happened on wednesday night was bad for the nhl and hockey as a one-off event no i don't i think if it happens repeatedly and this used to be a league where every time calgary and Edmonton played,

every time the Islanders and the Rangers played, every time Montreal and Quebec played, at times when Boston and Minnesota played, at times when Boston and Montreal played, at time when the Flyers and Kings played, pretty much the Flyers and everybody played. I mean, the games were four hours long and it was an issue as a one-off event i don't think it's a bad thing i wasn't going along with the chorus of people on twitter wednesday night that were saying this is a black eye on the league and it sets the league back etc as a one-off event, no, not for me at all. I tend to agree with you.

I try not to overreact to one-off events. I do think the conversation, though, even from people who used to play and in the era that you talked about there has changed. A lot of the reaction I got was, I don't want to see this a lot. They said, you have to allow for the safety valve once, but you don't want to see it four times a week. And I probably would agree with that. That's the way I feel about it too. Like I thought that a lot of the debate about it was typical. Like nobody's mind is changing the people who liked it liked it the people who jump on hockey for this hated it yeah and i don't think anyone's opinion is changing once doesn't bother

me a ton of times is not good the argument i disagree with is that it's the biggest impediment to growing the game disagree i disagree with that i think the bigger impediment to growing the game. Disagree. I disagree with that. I think the bigger impediments to growing the game are affordability, accessibility, number one, and number two, the better job we have to do of promoting the best players. To me, fighting is so far down the list because it's almost gone now.

Yep. Could you have maybe argued that 10 to 15 years ago? Absolutely. But it's been taken so down. And I know a lot of people who don't like that. Fine. Your opinion. But I don't see last night as, oh, this is why people don't like hockey.

I don't buy that a bit. I think accessibility, affordability, and promotion are much bigger issues than what happened Wednesday night. I'll give you another one. What I think an impediment to the game is, and I'm guilty of it, and that is not- What, coming up with stupid minute rules that no no that's helping the game i'm trying to help you as well but you know you have a very narrow mind i know i'm i'm swimming upstream on this one i think that we don't value the opinions of new fans or

soon-to-be fans where we overvalue the opinions of people like me as a 51-year-old who's followed this game since he was five years old. Like, I'm going to watch hockey and enjoy this sport for my entire life. I suspect you're exactly the same, Elliot. I think we tend to overvalue how we feel about the game instead of how people that are just coming to the game and have a lot of questions and have their own background and have their own history and have their own interests.

I think that we're guilty of not, how should I say this? We're guilty of not taking them as seriously as we take people like you and me, just because you and I have been in it for so long. I think that's a very good point. If this thing is going to grow, we need to stop saying, oh, no, no, no, no, new little hockey fan. You stay in the corner. The grownups are talking now. Once you stay with the game for 15 years, then you can speak. To me, that's wrong. Those people's opinion about the game, because that's the future of the game. Those people's opinions are more important than mine.

If this game is going to grow. That's how I feel about it. That's what I think as far as an impediment to the game. I don't think a line brawl at MSG on a Wednesday night onc is going to set the game back as much as us looking down our noses at new hockey fans i think that's very well said and my analogy on the park bench was excellent too now one last thing on the rangers before we move on the The $250,000 fine, that came in under what a lot of people were predicting. So I put the line there at $100,000,

the over-under. No way, that was too low. I took the over, I took the over. I just didn't know. I just didn't know what it was going to commit at. But it felt like this thing was going to be over $100,000. Yeah, that was too low.

Don't forget, the Sh sharks got fined 100k right in 2013 this was going to be more sharks was over rafi torres i had people who said they thought it was going to be a million i was going to ask you what's the craziest number you're a million yeah because you have to understand there's a lot of bad blood between dolan and the league yeah so people were saying to me that they thought that they would really, really hammer him. At times, it is obvious how there's a disconnect between Dolan and the Rangers versus the NHL.

I can recall, I think a lot of us that went through the lockout in 20405 when the NHL came out and there was a league mandate to standardize all the websites. Do you remember this, Elliot? Yeah, he sued them over that. Yeah, so hockey fans could all, like, if you could navigate the Flyers site, you could navigate the Kings site, you could navigate the Canucks site, you could navigate the Stars, et cetera, right?

They wanted to be, like, one sort of uniform look. All the content was going to be different, but the NHL's digital strategy was you should be able to navigate any team's website as easily as your home team's. And the Rangers wanted to do something

totally different and wanted their own and wanted to be unique and that was a huge deal. And to your point, lawyers got involved there and it was quite public. Like this isn't the first time.

Maybe for some people, this is their first viewing of this disconnect between, you know, Jimmy Dolan and Gary Bettman or the Rangers and the NHL. But, you know, given how much you know about the inner workings of the league, nobody should be surprised here. Right, Elliot? No, nobody should be surprised at all.

Okay, brief pause, collect your breath, try to find your watching keys he left on the park bench, Elliot. More on the Rangers here. Welcome to 31 Thought everyone to the podcast. Thanks for joining us again today. Before we get more into the Rangers situation, I want to mention a little bit later on we're going to be joined by David Backus

of the Anaheim Ducks. Wednesday was like the accent on Wednesday was on the violence and the fights and the Rangers and the Washington Capitals. But there were two really emotional moments. One was TJ Oshie with the hat trick. His first

game back after the passing of his father. And the other was David Backus in what is probably going to be his last game in St. Louis. The interview with Darren Pang afterwards was spectacular. No surprise. Panger's fantastic. You could tell David Backus right from the get-go was really emotional. That hit a zenith when Panger threw to the video that everyone at the rink could see with his family and his dogs, which was such a great touch.

We know everything that he does for canines. We're going to be joined by David Backus a little bit later on. So very much looking forward to that interview. But a little bit more on the Rangers. Everybody was shocked by your tweet. I know I certainly was. At the office, standing beside Matt Marstrom and Kathy Broderick and Andrew Hopkins. I'll never forget the sound of Marzi's voice when he read your tweet. And then the sight of pure shock from everybody. The Rangers have fired John Davidson, fired Jeff Gorton as well.

as well a few things here i want to in this section talk about why they made the move and one thing we should point out and probably use as a reference post here is larry brooks of the new york post spoke with james dolan and there's a couple of key quotes here that we should probably go over but before we do that do you have a thought on what happened before we get into some of these quotes from James Dolan? First of all, we should give Larry credit. He beat me on the tweet by 25 seconds. Zing. In our business, that matters.

So I did want to say that out. Secondly, we're taping this on Thursday night. I was talking to a GM on Thursday afternoon, and he said, look, I read your blog yesterday on the change and you wrote that it didn't appear to have anything to do with the Wilson thing. He said, you will never be able to convince me of that. And I said, I'm telling you, I'm hearing it didn't. And the timing was more of a coincidence than anything. If I believed anything, it's the, just the Wilson thing accelerated that, but it wasn't the reason. And it was like,

la, la, la, la, la, la, la. I'm not listening to anything.

Elliot is saying, I will never believe you. I will never believe you. And I think the quotes in that Larry Brooks story, he explains it pretty well in the sense that the team was going on the road. He wanted Chris jury involved in the exit meetings and he wasn't making the changes on the road. wanted Chris Drury involved in the exit meetings and he wasn't making the changes on the road I can buy that and the story did say what I had heard that this was in the works for about a month I thought it was because of the speed of the rebuild and he felt that they

should be in the playoffs now he kind of disputed that he does say that some other owners and GMs are saying your team is too talented to be where it is but he thought they were kind of disputed that he does say that some other owners and GMs are saying your team is too talented to be where it is but he thought they were kind of missing the cohesiveness and togetherness I think to me that's just semantics but the other thing I really do believe and he talks about this a bit is you know Glenn Sather was on the zoom call on Thursday with Chris Drury, I do think Glenn Sather played a pretty significant role in this. If you look at Jim Dolan's history, if there's someone he really likes, even if he fires them, it doesn't mean that he stops listening to them. And Glenn Sather wasn't fired as much as he was sort of moved into a sideways role.

If you know anything about Dolanlan that doesn't mean that that person is out of the picture and i don't believe that glenn say there was out of the picture and him being on the zoom call is proof of that anybody who follows basketball there's a lot of people listen this podcast who may not be basketball fans so you'd look at this and say why why would he do this like i felt the the Rangers were definitely going in the right direction. I think that Davidson and Gorton, they both have term. They both will get significant severance. I think they'll both be able to work their way into what they want to do.

People will say, why would he do this? Well, if you follow basketball and you follow the Knicks, in 2005, one year after Larry Brown won the NBA title as coach of the Detroit Pistons, he hired him to coach the Knicks and paid him $60 million, signed him to a $60 million deal. A year later, Larry Brown was fired and they worked out a severance and Larry Brown got $18.5 million of what was still owed to him. If you look at Phil Jackson, Jim Dolan had a really good Knicks team that won 54 regular season games and was the number two team in the Eastern Conference.

Then they had a rough year and he brought in Phil Jackson and it was a disaster. So Jackson was there for three years and then there was a two year option at the end of it for two more. And Jackson opted in to get the final $24 million of a $60 million deal. And then he fired him. So he's impulsive you know he just does crazy things that a lot of people wouldn't do so i think for a lot of people who follow the nba and the knicks they're saying to

themselves yeah this is normal so if i'm someone listening to this who has an understanding of Jim Dolan and who has specifically an understanding of Glenn Sather, his relationship with Jim Dolan, how much influence he has within the organization, I might look at this and say, I'm going to try to read in between the lines of what Elliot's saying here. Is Elliot really trying to tell us that Glenn Sather is in charge of this decision? I just think he had a major role in it. Let's get to some of the quotes here. One of the things that Dolan told Brooks, and I'll just read the quote. I saw a weakness in the team that was not being addressed, and I knew it needed to be.

I knew we were missing a key component to us being a Stanley Cup contender. What does that feel like to you? Well, I think it goes back to what we talked about in the beginning of the show. And that is, I don't know if it's the toughness or the togetherness or whatever it was, but whatever it is, he didn't think they had it like one of the things that's weird about the rangers this year is you know a couple weeks ago when i looked at it they were on pace to have the highest goals differential in 50 years not to make the playoffs yeah well a lot of hang on a lot of that was fueled by some blowouts against the flyers but your point is well taken i know i know it's not normal like if you look at the standings

this and i admit i haven't looked at them in a couple of days you know what i'll look at it right now because you actually have to do research in this job so as we tape this on thursday night the early games are being played but let's look at some numbers. Okay. In the central division, there's one team with a negative goal differential in the playoffs, Nashville, and there's one team with a positive goal differential out. That's Dallas plus two Dallas in the West. Every team that's out negative goal differential in the North. Every team that's out negative goal differential.

The Rangers are plus 23 and they're not going to make the playoffs i think it's the highest in 50 years pause on that for one second yeah there has been a time where the rangers goal differential i believe has been the highest in the division yeah plus 33 at one point yes that's when it was a freak that's when i looked at and i said this is bizarre this is the weirdest stat of the year they're number one in goal differential and they're in fifth place and they're not going to the playoffs so your point is well made i'm shocked by this like i am i was as stunned as anyone else and i will admit initially i didn't believe it could be anything but what happened on monday night and the reaction to it and the thing with davidson in particular is

i think a lot of people felt that davidson was let go because he didn't support the statement neither him nor gorton did but someone told me and this person's a good source, told me that Dolan felt that he wasn't communicated with. And, you know, he's the owner. It's his choice, as crazy as it is. Well, that sort of winks at another point here that we're going to get to, but to the point of what they're missing, does it sound to you like the New York Rangers are about to make a huge pitch to the vegas golden knights for ryan reeves you know i think you can infer that but it's kind of interesting like the same gm who said to me that he didn't know if he'd ever believe that it wasn't that even though the evidence is showing that wasn't the case you know know, the one thing he said the NHL has to be careful of here is a lot of us look

at what happened on Wednesday night and say, it's over. He said, he's not convinced it's over. He says, what if the Rangers load up in the off season and they go out and they get two deterrents? What happens if they play each other in exhibition game next year? If they don't play an exhibition game, what happens if they play in other in exhibition game next year if they don't play an exhibition game what happens if they play in a regular season game next year the first time they play you know and i thought that was a very good point if you read larry brooks's article uh james dolan

admits that there was a game against the islanders he didn't like and you know what are the islanders known for they are better than the sum of their parts they are cohesive they're tough they defend each other I think that that GM made a really good point to me that you know maybe this is something we're going to have to watch the next time the Rangers and the Capitals play each other but I do think whatever it is it's part of what dolan felt was missing the quote that you're referencing there a second ago about that certain moment in time on this get in the schedule for the rangers i'll read the quote here this is when he was asked about when he started to think about making this move and dolan says i started thinking about it 20 or 25 games ago at a time when the team really needed And Dolan says, efforts and we clearly had nowhere close to our best effort. One other quote we're getting to here

which you just referenced as well. This is Dolan. What I'm talking about is not just something that happens in the locker room. It's an entire organization that has to be together as a team. It's everybody from the president, the general manager, coach the players the assistant coaches the trainers everybody has to be together as a team because everyone makes a contribution our organization doesn't have that is that in your estimation james dolan saying i needed more communication out of my senior guys. It seems to me that's the case. I mean, what it says to me is that he either didn't like what he was being told, because that could also mean that not everybody agreed on something, right?

Or it could mean that he wasn't being told something or everybody's not on the same page or everybody's not close i mean you know i really struggle sometimes to guess the motivations of him i called a basketball reporter i still know and i said you know tell me about this what should i be discussing here and he kind of laughed and he said you know we've been trying to figure this out for two decades you know i remember the day say there was hired so the stanley cup that year new jersey was playing and on and off they set it up so it was an off day in the cup final and you know like a lot of reporters who were covering the cup that year, we left the devil's practice and we went into Manhattan and we interviewed Sather.

Like we just sit down with them. I was at the score at the time. And after he did some sit downs, he went to go do a group scrum with some of the writers. And I just went to listen. And in the middle of it, Jim Dolan came in and said, Hey,

I'm hungry. I want to go for lunch. And Glenn Sather was like, okay guys, that's the boss. It's lunchtime. And I, their relationship really grew. You know, they remained very close and it's very clear, whatever Davidson and Gorton were selling, which to, I think a lot of us

made an awful lot of sense. Yeah. Dolan was convinced it wasn't right. Man, from my perch, it looked like it was going great. Like they're on the right track. You know, as, as a couple of different people have pointed out, when you hear that Dolan quote about, you know, the president, the GM, the coach, the players, the assistant coaches, everybody has to be together as a team our organization doesn't have that normally that's followed up by

an outside of the organization hire but that didn't happen they stayed internal and went with chris drury i'm not surprised at that i'm not surprised at that in the least bit drury's had chances to leave and he hasn't and i think he always hoped he would be the gm of the rangers and i don't think anybody doubts that chris drury is ready i'm just curious to see what it means what's different are they going to go out and say we need a couple of tom wilson deterrents are they going to go out and get you know people are like oh they they going to go out and get, you know, people are like,

Oh, they're going to go after Jack Eichel now because, you know, Chris Drury, he has a relationship with Jack Eichel and they were represented by the same agent, but that's not really different. Drury and the Rangers, they made a pitch for Eichel last off season and Buffalo thought about it and

they decided that, you know, we weren't ready, but you know, Sather he's bold. Oh yeah. And Jim Dolan likes bold. He likes that. And you know, that's the other thing I could see here is I think Gorton and Davidson were,

were building, were building, were building. They did a bold thing. They went out and they got Panarin, but they're we're building, we're building, we're building. They did a bold thing. They went out and they got Panarin, but they're, we're building, we're building, we're building. And I just wonder if this means a bold move is coming. It's funny too, because the minute that you start to hear things about, you know, wanting this thing to be sped up and this is taking too long,

that's the first place my brain went. I was, okay, so it's full steam ahead, fire up the Jack Eichel rumors i am curious and the one name that springs to mind because there's a relationship between the two uh both on the ice with the uh with the buffalo sabers uh and off the ice as well and that's danny briere who's um looking and ready to take that next managerial step in his career. Not saying it's going to happen, but that's one name that springs to mind. What do you think Drury does first here?

As far as the team around him, what's the path here now for Chris Drury? I'll throw Breer's name out there because it just kind of feels like it makes sense, but what does Drury need to do here? I don't know if I have a clear answer of that yet i think what we're all trying to do in the in the short term is define what that is that dolan felt he was missing and that probably answers our question is it simply simply a Wilson deterrent? Or is there something else he feels they need? I can't answer that right now.

And by the way, I'm with you. I'd love to see Daniel Breer move up in the world. He's got a decision on the coach here, doesn't he? Yes, he does. And there's going to be a lot of interesting free agent coaches. There's going to be Rick To of interesting free agent coaches there's going to be rick tocket john tortorella i don't know if the rangers have any desire to do tortorella too you know it's tough for dave quinn i you know i i don't have any insight into what they're doing or not doing dolan said that is jury's decision and jury played a role in him coming there it can't be comfortable i mean the good thing for all these people who

got let go so far is they have severance you know davidson i think had three years left i think gorton is two queen is two i'm happy for that you know the thing too, and the one thing I think is very tough for everybody here is that I think it's very hard to make a proper evaluation of your team this year. Like this was a really hard year. And I think it's a hard year for a lot of people in the world, nevermind just hockey players, obviously in teams. But I was talking about this with another gm the other day and we were talking about how do you properly evaluate this year and this was a team that kind of had a disappointing year and what he said to me was we're looking for the way somebody's career was going before this year look for example if this was a player was trending upwards and they had a

really bad year says what we're discussing is okay was it a bad year because he's on a downward trend or was a bad year because this year was not conducive to having a good year? And he said that there was one player in his organization, he wouldn't, I kind of guessed who it is, but he wouldn't tell me me who was trending downwards and had a good year. And he said, they're kind of looking at him in a new way because it would have been easy to continue to trend downwards. And that's kind of the way he was trying to look at it. You know, that's the other thing I was curious about in terms of what Dolan said, because

I think this is a very hard year to evaluate people. The other questions that I think a lot of people have here are not what's next for Chris Drury, because a lot of those you just spell out, but what's next for John Davidson and Jeff Gorton? You know, Davidson, I think we're all wondering, is he going to work for a team? Is he going to go to TV?

He's going to have options. You know, Davidson's also in his late 60s. You know, he could retire too. You know, Gorton, you know, I's also in his late sixties, you know, he could retire too. You know, Gorton, you know, I heard he was hurt. I heard he was disappointed. You understand this business. It's not always fair, but I think he was disappointed, but I had a couple of people just reach out to me from other teams, like who aren't sort of managerial types and just ask and say what do

you know about him and i think they're curious because he's not a guy who wants or craves a lot of attention and he did a pretty solid job here like when you look at the rangers when they sent out that letter three years ago yeah they didn't have a ton of prospects they didn't have a ton of prospects. They didn't have a ton of picks. They did pretty well. He had good moves and bad moves like a lot of GMs, every GM. But I think his good definitely outweighed his bad. The bottom line is, is the team in better or worse shape than when he took it over? And it's definitely in better shape. Way better shape.

Drury is inheriting a team. Listen, a team that has artemi panarin and adam fox and alexi lafreniere and mika zabinijad and igor shisterkin and capo caco and kandri miller like right keep on going this is not chris drury being handed the keys to a team that's rebuilding. This team has a lot of players, like high-end players in key positions. I don't know, Elliot, like, does it not feel to you like Chris Drury's being handed a team that is really close here? Not unlike how Stan Bowman was handed the Blackhawks who were right there. Put it this way, Jeff. He's not being handed the car that's on your front lawn that needs new wheels.

No, that's been on there for six years. Because I know you have like three of them. Yeah, like an old 1984 Fiero that's been sitting there for 15. He's not getting that. You're looking for wheels in a pawn shop somewhere. Let's talk about the Washington Capitals. I know that this week, obviously the big story is Wilson. Once this calms down, I think the bigger story is going to start to be Kuznetsov.

Okay. So Kuznetsov and Samsonov found themselves in a situation where they're both, um, not allowed to play, uh, Kuznetsov placed on the, uh, COVID-19 list.

There's also a situation with a Ovechkin injury. The Ovechkin injury is concerning to me because a, he doesn't miss a lot of games. Yeah. And B like, I got to think he's going to be able to get through it. I hope he does because I don't want to see him miss any action. I want all teams to have their best players available for the playoffs,

things like that. It's just that, you know, he's missing games, and also he only played a couple seconds in the one game. So I have to admit, it's a little concerning, though. I don't want to guess. The Kuznetsov thing to me, you know, why is he in COVID protocol? Did he break protocol somehow?

I mean, we're all kind of... Again, it's an assumption, and it's based on nothing other than how I feel, but that's the way it feels, that he broke a protocol. I don't want to say anything more than that, but you certainly look at this situation and it's weird. And I do think there's a frustration there with him. I think their patience with him is coming to an end. It could all depend on how he plays in the playoffs. He's a great player. And when they won the cup in 18, I got no problem with Ovechkin

winning the consmith. But if someone told me Kuznetsov won it, I wouldn't have had any problem with that either. He was that great. But I do think how he performs this year in the postseason is going to go a long way towards determining his future in Washington. I think they're reaching the end there. And what is Anthony Stewart's line about his dad? Do you have a team or do you have a club? Washington Capitals have a team.

It wasn't just the special night that Oshie had to honor his father. It was also the way the players around him reacted to it. Everybody focused on the fights in that game. The bigger story was TJ Oshie with the hat trick, first game back since the passing of his father. Everybody felt that, and everybody was on Team Oshie that night, including, we should point out, in a really classy gesture, New York Rangers social media, Elliot.

Yes. Really classy gesture. All right, we're going to pause, step Yes. Really classy gesture. All right. We're going to pause, step away. We're going to come back. You're going to hear from David Backus of the Anaheim Ducks after a very emotional night in St. Louis. Stick with us. so david backus in game number 965, and if it is the end, fittingly it ends in St. Louis.

And David, we are pleased to have you here, and I can't imagine the emotion that you're feeling right now, David. No, you can't. no you can't such a special place special place to play special place to live to play what's probably my last game in this building in front of these fans in this city

it's the way I would have written it if I could have written it and got to live it, very blessed and very appreciative well you can tell the fans feel the same way David thank you 965 NHL games coming from Minnesota You can tell the fans feel the same way, David. Thank you. 965 NHL games. Coming from Minnesota and playing high school hockey and college hockey.

Could you have ever imagined, after being a second-round pick? Still feels like a dream. It's out of this world. Just so fortunate, so blessed. So many people along the way that have just poured into me, helped me along the way, from Walt letting me live at his house to start and teaching me the ropes to, you know, my wife and my kids and my parents that are here tonight drove down from Minnesota.

So, you know, coaches, teammates, guys on the other team, you know, that was over and above what I expected and, you know, really heartfelt, and I'll remember this forever. Well, if you're emotional now, I'd like you to look at the Jumbotron. I'm sorry to do this, David, but your beautiful wife, Kelly, and your kids, Stella and Dawson, have a message for you. Hi, my love. Hi, Daddy.

Hi, Daddy! Hi love! Hi daddy! Hi daddy! Babe, we've been your number one fans and supporters over the last 15 years and my goodness, what an amazing journey it has been. Just being able to watch you play a game that you love and use your gifts and your professional platform for good, it has been such a blessing. To the St. Louis community and organization and fans, thank you for allowing us to call this city our home. We love you, David. We love you, Daddy.

We love you, Daddy. I appreciate my little man being such a wild animal. He takes after mom, obviously, but man, thank you to everyone. This is too much. David, your parents, I know they're here, Steve and Karen, but the other day you mentioned to us broadcasters that they always stress, start something, you have to finish it. Have you done it, pal? I think so. It's been a great ride, an amazing ride, and just so blessed to have played this game for 15 years.

So thanks to everyone that's been a part of it, cheered me on, booed me, whatever you had to do to get in these seats. I appreciate everyone. David, thank you so much for doing this. You've always been a class act. I know I represent everybody on the TV side and everybody in the organization. And welcome to the Blues alumni, the NHL alumni, whenever you make that official decision. Okay, pal?

I appreciate that. Looking forward to those skates. I think I might be a couple years maybe still. David, thank you. Congratulations. Appreciate you. Okay, thanks very much, boy. Wow. Want emotion? Fellas, you got it. Elliot, Wednesday was a special night for David Backus. And you and I sat in the green room at Sportsnet

after doing Scotiabank Wednesday Night Hockey, watching the end and watching the Backus interview with Darren Pang. And you don't have a heart if you didn't feel for David Backus at that moment. He joins us now on 31 Thoughts, the podcast. Thanks so much for joining us. And wow, that was a whole lot of emotion packed into one interview. I don't know how you made it through the video with your family, with your wife, the kids,

the dogs, and all of it. of how you made it through the video with your family with your wife the kids the dogs and all of it but if you could can you take us back to to wednesday right after the game and the interview with panger well i think i'm just getting over that emotional hangover i'll dive back into that bottle i guess for you that uh you know it's just one of those things where the game's over and just like 15 years in the nhl it's gone before you know it and the game's over and just like 15 years in the NHL, it's gone before you know it and it goes so fast. And just in that building, being able to see some of my old teammates wearing the opposite jersey last night and then family

and just all those emotions wrapped up into one big ball definitely got me right in the heart and figured it was one of those times where it was certainly okay to just let it show. And, you know, I think the fans that were there, there was 5,000 of them, but, you know, appreciative for all their support and classiness and giving me an excellent send off and something I'll always remember. You know, it wasn't only that too, but earlier in the game, they showed a video and you got emotional. And I said to myself, he doesn't look like he's going to be able to play here. You know, the one I really remember David was when Matt Sundin came back to Toronto,

they played a video for him and he was so emotional that the next face-off the linesman like basically said are you okay do you need more time I was wondering how you were feeling in those moments during the game yeah I was uh pretty pretty wound up in that after the video and and I think Dallas Eakins is pretty astute to those moments and very sensitive to that moment where I had just gotten done with a shift, so I probably wasn't scheduled for another one for another five minutes anyway. But he let the other lines go for a cycle, maybe a cycle and a half, and then kind of bumped me and said, are you ready, and got the nod again.

So kudos to him for having that awareness and not throwing me back into the fire because I told Sam Steele after a couple shifts we had where I just kind of blacked out and went with what was instinctual and all of a sudden found myself low in the defensive zone when he was actually playing center on the shift. And then we were duplicating roles and uh sorted out as we needed to but uh had to apologize a couple times just because there's so much stuff going through your mind that it was tough to sort out the individual plays during the game how often would you um or how often have you let yourself go back to your your first season with the st louis blues you go into that dressing room and

it's doug weight and it's bill garren and keith kachuk and you know uh eric brewer and like there's like some heavyweight big veteran names here in the nhl and there's you do you ever let yourself go back and think about that and if if so, what do you, what goes through your mind? Yeah. And I mean, then and now I, I feel like it was kind of like fantasy camp where you're there with all these guys that I watched growing up and really looked up to. And now I'm in a locker room with them playing with them and they're teaching me the intricacies of the game. And I'm able to just learn from them, you know, first person behind the scenes in the game, getting pointers.

It was wild. And then to see those guys behind closed doors and how much fun they had, how much fun they had together and love spending time together, dinners and meals. And they were inviting me to come along and certainly was given the advice to be seen and not heard.

And that was fine to tag along and soak it in and trying to pass those words of advice on to the next generation. But we seem to have to tell them quite a few more times, I feel like, than we had to be told. I always felt, David, that the one guy, and maybe it's just because the way you played, the one guy that had the most effect on you in that room was Keith Kachuk. Look at the way you play. Look at the way that he played. And I remember when he called it a career, and it almost seemed as if David Backus is going to be the next Keith Kachuk

with the St. Louis Blues. That next season he went on and had, I think, 30 or 35 goals for the St. Louis Blues. Was he the guy that had the most profound effect on you or am I, am I way off on this one? No, I think you're, you're spot on. You know, it all started with my first training camp when in training camp scrimmage, he gave me a flying elbow right to the face and what the NHL was about. And it's either, you know, eat or be eaten. And that was a bit of a wake-up call and

when I got called back up Christmas time he invited me to stay at his house so I don't know if he was feeling bad for the elbow in camp or if he really wanted to teach me the ways but ended up being a an awesome opportunity for me to see how he took care of himself away from the rink and you know he was giving me pointers on being the first guy to the rink and the last one to leave when you're a young guy and soaking it in and, you know, paying attention to these things and, you know, telling me to watch certain things throughout the game where he was trying to get an edge and just go to the front of the net.

And there's a lot of free goals just laying right there as long as you're willing to go there. And, you know, outside of that, that you know I still remember vividly tearing up when it was his last game in St. Louis and he had his kids come on the ice and he was doing a lap and waving and tearing up and his wife was there it was just I had a few flashbacks to that you know not that I'm Keith Kachuk, but that I felt similar types of moments happened last night to what he had in his last game. And I think we had a few road games left that year and he ended up staying home and didn't even come on the road trip. And that was his last time on the ice with us. So I'm looking at that year, Doug Wade's 35, Bill Guerin's 35, Kachaka's 34, Martin Ruchinsky's 35, Jamal Myers 31,

Dallas Drake 37, Manny Legacy 33. Was Dallas Drake 37? Yes. He acted like he was 50 that year. Tell me about your rookie dinner. If I could remember any of it, there's maybe a few too many adult beverages gave me a little amnesia because that's the way that goes sometimes.

But it was in Vancouver at a nice steakhouse, and I remember some gasoline shots. And my favorite memory is, you know, guys are clowns at any type of time you get together but you know got dan high note and i think jay mckee was there and eric brewer and sitting at a table and one of the guys just whispers okay now everyone just start slowly unbuttoning your shirts and we're all going to be shirtless here in a second and so we all just start unbuttoning our shirt in a private room and all of a sudden, you know, quietly.

And then one guy sees us, what the heck are you guys doing? And everyone just started exploding. And there's a few, like I was 22, so I was probably at the body of a 12-year-old choir kid at that point. And some of the other guys had some frumpiness to them. So it was just one of those moments where you knew that, you know, if you weren't comfortable in your own skin, it was going to be a tough go. And I think you had to tell jokes, maybe sing a song and, you know,

awesome memories. And then thankfully you only have to do that once. And then you get to be on the giving side of that equation a lot more than I've received. You know, one of the things I wanted to ask you about, David, was the offer sheet. And I was going back through your career and I'd forgotten that you had signed an offer sheet with Vancouver. And number one, have you ever thought maybe how much or if any of your career would have

been different if you would have gone there? And also just the process of going for it and thinking about it and what it was like just before you did it, when you decided to do it and how you handled the reaction after you did it inside the organization. Sure. Not to have my own monologue, but, uh, you know, my wife likes to take a lot of credit for my success because we got engaged the next day I got called up for my first NHL game and then on our honeymoon 18 months later uh over free agency and I got the offer sheet to Vancouver so she's taking a lot of credit for that I don't know I remember waking up on that July 1st and we were in Hawaii for our honeymoon and all of a sudden I'm getting

a call from my agent and he says, well, you know, St. Louis didn't, we didn't come to terms with them yet and you're a restricted free agent and Vancouver's stepped up to the plate here and they've really want you and here's what they're willing to do for you. And I think we were hoping to get a million and a half dollars from St. Louis on a one-year deal and probably would have taken that at any time. And for whatever reason, they waited until after that July 1st time and Vancouver stepped up to the plate with a three-year deal,

$2.5 million a year with signing bonus. And it was like, man, how do you step away from that? And got a couple lessons there from my agent that this is business. This is not saying that, you know, you don't want to be a St. Louis Blue. This is saying that this is a contract that you would be willing to play for and they certainly can match and they've got seven days to do so. And otherwise you're going to be a Vancouver Canuck. And not that it's a bad thing, but that's the worst case scenario is that St. Louis doesn't match and you end up in Vancouver on this deal and start a new chapter in your career with a team that was really up and coming with you know the Sedin twins and Ryan Kessler and

Burroughs and they had a great team back then so Luongo was in net so we signed the deal and sent it back and my agent said St louis isn't happy but they got there seven days to figure it out and i think it was only a couple hours later they called and said we're going to match the offer we want you to be part of this team long term and i that would felt good and you know i was under contract for three years after that, a number that I was very happy with. I think I scored 30 goals that year. They offer sheeted right back, maybe a little bit less, a one-year deal, and Vancouver had a match.

That goes and maybe discourages a later attempt to poach somebody from a different team. We're on our honeymoon and an inside story is you know we get the offer and talking to my new wife and saying we can't turn this down like this is this is life-changing opportunity here and she was really sad like I love St. Louis and I'm like honey you don't know what Vancouver's about either and then we started researching what Vancouver was and on the water and one of the most livable cities in the world. And all of a sudden she was excited to go to Vancouver potentially.

And then it was matched and it was like, oh, okay, well, I guess I love St. Louis too. So that's the world of emotions that go along with offer sheets and the business of restricted free agency. I mean, everybody understands that it's a business and the lion's share of people do the exact same thing that you do, that you did rather in that exact situation. Was it in any way strange going back into that room? And I'm sure you've heard stories. We've heard stories about players that have signed offer sheets. It's been matched.

They went back and some players in the room kind of had their backup. Oh, you tried to leave. Oh, you're like that kind of vibe. Was it awkward at all for you going back into the room? It wasn't. I don't remember any feelings like that. The offer sheet is obviously not used as much in today's bargaining world, but I would say it's analogous to the holdout or a guy that misses a bunch of camp because he hasn't agreed to terms with the team, and it's kind of a game of chicken at that point. But when that guy gets to camp, it's like, let's get him up to speed, let's get him in a lineup and be productive as possible once he gets in there.

So I think that was more of the approach that was taken. And maybe if it's a one-year deal, you know, at a big number and there might be a little bit more of that and you're maybe more expendable or it's one of those things where when that's done, you're probably traded, but it was a three-year deal and a younger team that might've helped as well. And a team that wasn't having a ton of success at that point yet, we were still rebuilding and trying to find our culture. So really, I didn't feel any of those emotions or guys with their hackles up for me for signing an offer sheet. I think some of it is empathetically or sympathetic that they would have done the exact same thing in my shoes. I really hope that there's a new answer to

this question because you've always said it's a coincidence. 2010, you know where I'm going with this. You fight Jonathan Taves, Corey Perry, Rick Nash, all players that you'll be competing against at the olympics i don't want to believe that it was a coincidence so no matter what you say i'm just gonna say that it was deliberate and you were trying systematically to go through was going to turn out to be team canada was that deliberate david bacchus before i incriminate myself, those guys, I did not have to jump any of those guys. And who's to say that they weren't all scheming to try to take me out before that tournament?

Very fair. We should ask them that. I think it was one of those times where all of a sudden, Jonathan Taves, after whatever, four or five years of trying to make him angry enough to fight me, he obliged. And I was like, wow, that was great. And give the guy props that he fought me. All right, Backus and Taves fencing down low.

They are. And now they're going to drop their gloves, Taves and Backus. They are, and now they're going to drop the gloves, Taves and Backus. And Team Canada and Team USA in a confrontation here early. And the Blues and the Hawks continue the bad blood that's been going on throughout the game tonight. And that last right from Backus caught Taves a little off balance, but he didn't want to be done.

He didn't want to be done. He didn't want to finish it that way. He got right back up off the ice. Now, this is not his forte, but he's certainly not going to be scared of anybody. And the young Hawk captain goes after a much bigger foe in this set two. I was like, all right. And then the next night it was like Perry and Getzlaff. Well, if I got to pick one, Ryan's out.

So Perry, if he wanted to dance, well then, okay. And then here's Brad Boyd. Oh, he's got a scrap bone here. Backus in a fight. Second fight in three games with Perry. He's taken on all the new Canadian team members. And an overhand right by Backus. He fought Taves the other night.

Yes, he did. Perry trying to get a left-hand free. Overhand right again by Backus. Backus has a distinct reach advantage and a counterpunch there by Backus, and he knocks Perry down. Both guys respectfully taking off their helmets. Backus with the visor along with Perry instead of keeping them on.

Okay, Rick Nash is coming up next. Going to be one of those hand guys. And a very lucky man. And Everblue's touching, and Nash goes after David Backus. He has fought Perry, Taves, and now Nash. He is going after every Canadian Olympian. And now it's a full-on brawl here. Full-on brawl.

The goaltender, Matthew Garana, had gone out for the delayed minor penalty. So he's not on the ice. So Mason won't be jumping in here. But this is a classic bout here. And now Eric Johnson is involved in the corner. And Stallman's already in the penalty box. And it's not like they're guys that I was doing a disservice to my team to fight. If we could both spend five minutes in the box marinating,

plus hopefully there wasn't a whistle for another five minutes, that's ten minutes they're not scoring. That's a win for me. So plus you get into the Olympics and no offense to the European officials that are in the Olympics, but all of a sudden it's called so tightly and they don't want you to get any rough stuff going. So you had to get it preemptively taken care of to establish yourself. Otherwise, you know, there's too many sanctions in those international games where it's just not feasible to get into that sort of thing.

Man, that's pretty funny. I'm impressed that you admitted as much about that as you did. I guess when your conscience is clear and you're getting close to retirement, you can just start to admit these kinds of things, right? Well, it's the ending of many. I'm sure the truth will come out on a lot more here shortly. I wanted to ask you, when you went to Boston in 2016, I remember asking one of your teammates about you leaving and they said that the biggest adjustment the Blues were going to have was when you were the captain there, David, you took your role very seriously as the buffer between Ken Hitchcock and the players. You were very serious about that. They said that you felt you were the conduit between him and the players.

And Hitchcock was a hard driving coach. Everybody knows the stories. And Hitchcock was a hard driving coach. Everybody knows the stories. And initially I think they really struggled without you there to handle that. How did you see your role there? What did you do? Yeah, I, I think I was a filter because Hitch can be a, you know, he's a hard driving coach and sometimes it's too much for guys to like compartmentalize and say,

oh, okay, he's just trying to encourage us. And sometimes guys just want to say, screw that guy. But you can say screw that guy if you're all saying it together and you're all bound in it together. And sometimes he was hoping that we would all coalesce around, not hatred for him, but disdain for him and just being mad at him and like one time we were in we're in buffalo i remember it and i don't know what road trip we're on and we sit down for video he's like before we get started everybody together on three the coach is an asshole so he goes one

two three and like eight guys were like, the coach is an asshole. And he's like, you can do better than that. He's like, again, one, two, three. So everyone together like screamed, the coach is an asshole. He's like, all right, we can get started now. So he just wanted us all to be together, even if it meant that he was on an island and we were all just mad at him. As long as we were together being mad at him you know that was one of his strategies the other part was you know he was relentless in his way that he saw the game and then I had to kind of

not play Switzerland but to you know he want he's like I had a team in Dallas that didn't turn the puck over for 27 straight games and we're like easy hitch there's no team that's ever done that so he would be like no turnovers tonight and I'd be like guys we got to get pucks deep and let's just take care of it like we're gonna mess up but we gotta work hard to like I was putting it in plain English and he had his hitch isms that were far extreme on one side. And it just, it seemed to work a lot better than,

you know, an unfiltered hitch coming right down your throat. That is outstanding. Last night. Cause we're taping this on Thursday. It's released on Friday. It was quite a night in the NHL. You had a very emotional night and sort of one of your former teammates in the Washington-New York game.

I'm sure you saw what TJ Oshie went through this week. I don't know if you guys are still friends or what your relationship is, but that's quite a night in the National Hockey League to see. In a league where we don't see those emotions too often, to see you as emotional as you were and TJ Oshie and the capitals as emotional as they were it was really something yeah a couple of cry babies that's uh we learned that together that uh real men aren't scared to cry maybe that's from having daughters or what but uh yeah I I heard about his father and sent him a message and at the end said you don't need to

text me back and he texted me right back and i'm like this guy's i mean he's he's one of the best teammates and one of the best you know just real dudes i guess my story with him is 2014 we're in sochi and he does the russian shootout thing where he yeah the game for us. And I go back to the room with roommates. And he comes back like an hour and a half later after doing NBC. And he comes back there. He's got makeup on. He's like, don't you think they're blowing this a little out of proportion? And I'm like, you have no idea what you just did.

He's down to earth and just does his thing and loves to do it. And that's just the kind of guy he is. So then, you know, his father passes and he takes a day or two off and then he's back on the ice. And all his teammates have, you know, Coach Osh's sticker on their helmet. And he goes out there and gets a hat trick. Like, who does that? And he texted me before I could text him. Like, that was awesome to see that

tonight. And you're, uh, you know, you're one of the best or something like that. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Like you went out and did a hat trick after your dad died. Like coach Osh was skating along with you tonight. That's pretty amazing. And, you know, those are the friendships and the connections that you relish and you're making this game that'll last forever. connections that you relish and you're making this game that'll last forever. That's amazing. It really is, David. And I want to ask you, and it was so nice watching the video with your family. And I know front and center with you is always going to be dogs. My wife and I and our kids are on our fourth rescue. My German Shepherd is sleeping and snoring behind me right now as we record this podcast.

Tell us about your relationship and your work with dogs. Yeah, so our most we've had in the house, well, not including fosters. At one time, we had two dogs and two cats, and my wife brought a pregnant mama home, and then she had 12 puppies. So we had the 13 fosters, our two dogs and two cats. So that's 17 animals in the house, certainly breaking some local statute. But I guess nobody called the cops on us. So we got away with it.

But of our own, we've had four dogs and two cats. And that was pre-kid. And unfortunately, they don't live long enough. So since a lot of them have passed, we're down to one dog and one cat. We just got another puppy, and we swore off ever getting a puppy before getting this puppy, but we figured it could grow up with the kids and it'd be awesome. We were fostering four Roddy puppies in Newport beach and ended up keeping one of them foster failing it. And so we got two dogs and one cat and she's a handful. And we

realized now why we swore off ever getting another puppy because they are. But the connection is, you know, I, my animal background is we had a little bit of a rehomed dog when I was younger, and he was kind of crazy. My wife grew up with a ton of different animals, and we started volunteering in college at a local animal shelter because we couldn't, obviously, renting a place, you know, it just wasn't a good idea to adopt an animal of our own, breaking a lease and really not having any financial footing to raise an animal of our own, breaking a lease and really not having any financial

footing to raise an animal on. So we got that fixed through volunteering at a shelter and found it really rewarding. So we carried that into St. Louis. And now that we're sharing all the secrets, part of the motivation selfishly was that we wanted to kind of connect with the community so much that if they ever tried to send me down or trade me that there would be an uproar so we started volunteering and and it's just infectious when you help other people or other beings the amount that you get back and that gratification for serving others and and giving your time to make their lives better is it's thrown back at you two, threefold. So we started walking dogs, cleaning kennels, cleaning litter boxes, spending time with cats.

That grew into the shelter manager saying, hey, you know what, why don't you use your platform a little bit more and take pictures with some of these dogs that have been here the longest, and let's try to just promote them so they can get forever homes. And so David's Dogs was born and we'd take pictures with three of the dogs that have been there the longest. And lo and behold, all of a sudden, somebody would want to step up to adopt them. And then we would show up at their events that they were doing fundraising. And instead of having to beg people to come to them, they were selling out and not having to advertise very much. And then they were raising ticket prices. And then we were

able to curate a bunch of silent auction items so that they were raising even more money. And it was like, okay, they said, your time is better spent that way than cleaning kennels and scooping litter. Not that you don't have to do that, but if we've got, say, 10 hours of your time this week, we'd like to use them in these other areas where you can make media appearances or come to our events and raise more money for us. So that just seemed like a great idea. And then we were able to recruit other athletes

from all around St. Louis, guys that were in different sports and people like Mark Burley, who's from the St. Louis area. He was all of a sudden at events and James Larnitas from the Rams and Jake Long from the Rams, Kyle McClellan from the Cardinals. And it was like, you know what? We could do this on a big scale, like nationwide and use, you know,

step out of the box a little bit and connect with other athletes and broker those relationships and kind of give them the the heads up on how their time is best used and not have to have this learning curve the way we had the learning curve so we stepped on our own and started our own charity called athletes for animals and any money that we raise either from events or from raffles it it all goes back into the community, into the animal welfare community via a biannual grant cycle, which we're in the middle of now. We've got, I think, 92 groups that have requested funds for their amazing programs that they have. And all that money goes right back out into those groups. Kelly and I cover all the overhead. And then we do that networking. Like we said, if we see a problem, like I think Montreal or Quebec was trying to

do a provincial wide breed ban on, it might've been pit bulls or something like that. And we were able to use some of the athletes' voices to stand up against that. I think Mark Edgware, Vlasic was stepping up and using his voice and some of the other Canadian guys. So we've found a problem and combated it with some of the athletes. And then some of the athletes come to us, too, and say, hey, we want to help, but we don't even know how to get started. And then we're able to pair them up with a group that's in their area. that's in their area and then they can get to work and we can again broker that and have expectations both from the shelter side and from the athlete side so that it's just a smooth appearance and everyone knows what the expectations are wow um i've been told you're not going to make a grand

announcement so i i'm not going to be so gauche just to ask that. But I do wonder as this season comes to an end, David, when you think back about the last 15 years, what are your greatest memories? What are the things you think about the most? I think the first thing that comes to mind is just the people and the relationships you meet along the way. And whether it's people in the game, which there's been so many that have, for some reason, believed in me or helped me along the way or given me the benefit of the doubt or come alongside of me or taught me things that they didn't need to, but they did. Those relationships or people outside of the game.

We had that night in St. Louis, like our old UPS drivers texting me. And the guy who used to cut our grass in St. Louis is texting me. And some of the special needs kids that we used to do work with and became good friends with in St. Louis, they're texting you. And, you know, those relationships and those people that you meet along the way are very special and those relationships last. So that's what I remember most from, I guess, the people side of it, from the playing side of it. The 2010 Olympics was certainly a highlight and some of the best hockey games I've been a part of, especially the gold medal game, beating Canada in the prelims and then having an overtime game in the gold medal game.

Those are scripts that can't be written in real life competitive sports, and they just seem to happen. That was phenomenal. Beating Chicago in game seven. happen that was phenomenal beating Chicago in game seven I think my last year in St. Louis where we go to the conference finals finally to beat those guys in a playoff series that almost PTSD with them getting the best of us between them and LA you know cringe to see those logos but finally to get the best of those guys and then to make it to a conference final and it felt like we finally got over that second round hump those are my playing memories that i i really relish of all the players that you played against was there one player that brought out the best in you that you look back on and you say i couldn't have achieved a level that I got to without competing against this guy.

Was there one guy in your life that brought that out of you? Well, I'll tell you the guy who brought the competitiveness and the fire out of me the most was actually a teammate of mine, DJ King, in the minor first quarter. I was admittedly like I was probably 6'3", 205, coming out of college, kind of string bean, very soft. And we'd be in line for a drill, and he'd cross-check me in the arm where I didn't have shoulder pads, and I hated him. I mean, he was my teammate, and I hated him. I mean, he was my teammate and I hated him.

This like big, tough guy. What was I going to do to him? Like absolutely nothing. And he's given it to me in practice as my own teammate. I'm like, if I could not see this guy again, that would be better. I would be better for it because I wanted to just get away from him.

So then that was the rest of that year after my college season the next year we're in camp and I was one of the last cuts and I get sent down the only guy without a room is DJ King without a roommate and so I either had the choice of going solo and absolutely slapping this guy in the face who was gigantic and tough or bunking up with him where I would probably be a punching bag for the whole season and so for some reason I chose to be the punching bag and but he taught me so much that year that some of it was alcohol induced but we'd be we'd be out late and he'd push me or something and I'd shy away again.

He's like, man, are you going to take that all year? Like if you don't stand up for yourself, you're going to take that and guys are going to run your show. Like you don't have to be the toughest guy. You just have to show up and stand up for yourself. And all of a sudden things started to click. And, you know, we might have pushed each other back and forth, but, you know, he taught me so many lessons along those lines. Or in he'd be like that guy thinks he owns you you better go back at him and

and then all of a sudden somebody else will be tucking tail when i was the guy tucking tail before and i'd be like this guy gets it and then if it got too far i always had the big the big guy behind me to be like kangeranger, take care of this guy. And he would do it. From my own team, he certainly brought out the best in me. And I don't think I get anywhere near where I am today without, you know, those lessons early in my career. And then, you know,

Tave certainly made me bring my game to another level. I think I played my best defensive game against Crosby, just knowing that he's the best player in my generation him and Ovechkin we can have that debate later but you know a hard match against Sid where it was like I got to be on my game I can't make a mistake positionally or I'm not gonna you know recover against him and I got to make him think about anything else besides playing hockey because that's the

only way I survived these games and I don't think it was pleasurable for him because every whistle I was seemingly giving it to him but that's how I had to play in order to have success against him so I feel like that brought out the competitive edge in me a lot too thanks to DJ King I'm telling and by the way and you know this and just for our listeners understand too, in his day, he was one of, if maybe the most underrated tough guy in the NHL. That guy never got the headlines that he deserved for being as, as raw bone tough as he was.

But, um, thanks to DJ King. Cause I'll tell you what, David, you were a lot of fun to watch play, man. Like you were a real fun and you knew like you're playing a game against Dave

Backus. Like you better bring it because it's going to be a tough game. Wonderful watching you play. Thanks so much for spending time with us today. We really appreciate it. Best of luck in whatever comes next. Thank you very much. So it's, that's, that's high praise.

I appreciate it. And anytime for you guys. Thanks very much so sir that's that's high praise i appreciate it and uh any time for you guys thanks very much david so that's david backus of the anaheim ducks uh we thank him for stopping by and thank alex gilchrist for making that happen that was some really cool stuff in there the stuff on dj king i really really loved i did not expect him to go there with that answer. I expected a Jonathan Taves, Sidney Crosby type answer, but the fact that he went to someone on his own team was pretty interesting.

And starting to come clean with going after guys from Team Canada in 2010, Elliot. That's a nice little admission there. There was some good stuff in there it's you know what it's like it's like when your your grandparents get old and they just say you know i don't care anymore so i'm just gonna say whatever is on my head there was some there was some really good stuff in there he admitted that you know talking about his rookie dinner talking about um Hitchcock.

Oh, that's a hilarious story. It was interesting hearing him and Oshie talk about each other, but that DJ King story at the end was great. There was some really good stuff in there. I'm really appreciative that he was open. I loved watching him play. Honestly, I love that style of player. I loved watching David Backus at the height of his powers.

And you know what? The one thing that I think should never really be lost when it comes to St. Louis or the Blues, going back to when they came into the NHL, they were part of the second six. They were always tough. Like from day one, the St. Louis Blues always had tough players in their organization.

Like that was day one for St. Louis Elliott. And, you know, that tradition continued year after year, after year, after year. And David Backus was right in there with some of those other tough players.

And it wasn't as if they just had, you know, just had, you know, fighters, but they had like other tough players. And it wasn't as if they just had, you know, just had, you know, fighters, but they had like tough hockey players. Like we mentioned Kachuk, go back to like, you know, Brian Sutter. And, you know, Dave Backus is part of that lineage. I don't know.

I really enjoyed watching Backus play. How about you? You know what? He referenced St. Louis and Los Angeles in a couple of those playoff series. And the one I really remember was there was a seven-gamer against LA in 2013. And Los Angeles won that series in six games, four games to two. And there weren't a lot of goals scored in that series. It was, I think, under four a game between the two teams

and some people looked at that and said it's boring but what i remember was how mean that series was just how hard those two teams went at each other for six games if i want to say correctly david amber i think covered that series because it was still a CBC at the time. And I just remember talking about it, him talking about being at those games and how nasty they were. It's awesome. Thanks to Dave Backus and we wish him the

best in whatever is next in his life. Taking us out this week is River Jensen, formerly known as Niall, a band we featured on the pod last week. And with his first single, here's River Jensen with Passion Ride on 31 Thoughts to Podcast. I'm so bored. But my plan's to save every jaded empty face. I guess you get what you pay for. We'll try moving away. Sell everything. Let it go cause it's what you're good at.

So come take my Come take my passion for all I am And please take my Please take my emptiness inside Yeah

Would you think that I'm better off depressed Overthinking everything and I never get to rest It's so obvious, it's just so easy to figure out I'm changing nothing, I'm choosing nothing Try moving away. Sell everything. Let it go. Cause it's what you're good at.

So come take my, come take my passion for a ride. And please take my, please take my emptiness inside