32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Behind the Scenes With the Keators

Episode Date: July 13, 2026

In this special interview edition of the 32 Thoughts podcast, Elliotte sits down with Leo Carlsson’s agents, Matt and Ryan Keator, for an in-depth, behind-the-scenes look at the process that led to Leo Carlsson signing the richest contract in NHL history via a blockbuster offer sheet. Listen to all the 32 Thoughts music here. Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail. This podcast was produced and mixed by Cristian Ceniti and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

We hope you enjoy Elliot and the Cators on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Sounds like a band name. Elliot and the Cateres. They do bluegrass music. Elliot plays the banjo. It's on the banjo. One night only at the Orion's Folk Festival. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, presented by your

Canadian Toyota dealers and the 26 Tacoma. It's time to Toyota. Boy, that off-season sure flew by, didn't it? What are we? Barely a week plus after dropping the big four-plus hour finale. We're back already.

Trust us. We are more than sick of each other and we promise we would not interrupt your own summer activities without good reason. This is a special emergency interview pod. I'm sure you've heard by now, the Ducks did in fact match the Flyers' five-year $90 million offer sheet to ensure that Leo Carlson remained a duck.

So Pat Verbeek said it was surprising to say the least when he first heard those numbers that the Flyers threw at Carlson. So today you're going to hear Elliot's conversation with two people very involved in that whole process. Carlson's representation, the father-son duo of Matt and Ryan Cater. Matt's been around the game, especially a long, long time. How surprised were they when they heard what Philly was willing to offer? You'll get that answer and plenty more about the inner workings of a contract that has effectively changed everything on the business side. We hope you enjoy Elliott and the Cators on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. All right, so gentlemen, since this is audio only, and I don't want to be constantly introducing both of you because it's bad for flow.

I don't think the listeners would like that very much. I felt the best way to start would be for the listeners to get used to your respective voices. So, Matt, why don't you introduce yourself first so the listeners know exactly what you sound like? So on Matt Cater, I'm going into my 37th year in NHL circles. I worked for eight years, first eight years of my career as a scout with the St. Louis Blues, traveling all over the world Sweden in particular which we'll discuss some on this podcast

and the last 29 going to my 29th year in the agent business so been doing this a long time yeah and I'm Ryan Cater I'm Matt's son I'm 27 years old I'm on year two so not the same rap sheet as Matt but I went to Boston college for four years

worked there under Jerry York and he hired me so fear enough He just did his master's in sport. Sports management. Management at Boston College. So he is a double eagle. We'll give him some credit there.

So Ryan, did you always want to work for your dad? Was this something that you thought you were going to do? Yeah, I always wanted to. Like, kind of growing up, right? I was always kind of doing player comps for him, doing team research, doing no trade list, things like that since I was in high school. And I've always loved the game and everything else. And I was, I did video app, app,

Austin College, me and my buddy Cam Wolbach now works for the Bruins organization. And then after that, I actually worked in tech sales, but I was still doing work for Matt after that. And then two years ago, he brought. It was a rigorous interview process. Let's bring a job like this. Okay. So now let's introduce Leo Carlson. When did he become your client?

Any player who's the second overall pick in the draft and has his talent, there's probably a lot of people who want to represent. represent him. So how did the caters become Leo Carlson's representatives? So years back, probably eight, nine years ago, I got a call from Zedano Chara, who one of his best friends in the world is a guy by name a Raddick Hammer, who played for the Ottawa senators years ago, and Radick's a check, but he's based in Sweden and Carlstad, Sweden. And Zee said, hey, he's one of my best friends. He's a great person. He's in the age of business. He wants to talk to you about affiliating. I was skeptical at best, but the minute I started talking erratic, I loved them.

You know, he had the same values and beliefs as we did. I met his partner, Marcus Isaacson, who's been an agent over there for 20 plus years, and has done a tremendous job over there negotiating contracts. And the two of them are a great team together. And I think we just found a lot of shared values and beliefs. I traveled to Sweden a lot. I actually played professionally over there for a year. So I knew the culture.

And these guys had basically the same type of firm over there as us. You know, we both have boutique firms, less clients, better service, being all about the relationship and returning phone calls and texts right away. You know, we just don't believe in kind of the big firm approach, if you will, of bringing 20, 30, 40 kids to the draft every year. And, you know, we just wanted to keep it small. We kind of target kind of non-elitist parents and players who focus on training and personal development rather than a social media post or, hey, can you get me concert tickets?

I don't want to hear that. It's about when's your next training session, you know, and it's really more, it's a blue-collar approach that these guys have, and we aligned so well that we adopted their name. We stole their name, Win Hockey. So they were Win Hockey Agency in Sweden. I think for us to be fully aligned, we took their name. and we adopted it here and now we're all under kind of one umbrella

two agencies with the shame with the same values under one umbrella and that's kind of led us to a number of Swedish players and Leo in particular yeah and for me I actually met Leo my first time meeting him in person was the 2023 draft and I wasn't working for my dad yet but I came because I just wanted to see how it operated

and we had the Leonard Ryan Leonard too who I love but for Leo I it was fun like he kept asking about Columbus because Leo was slotted to go third overall. And it was interesting to me just talking to him about, you know, the different organizations. The kid really wanted to learn. Like he was very interested in learning about the cities and the teams and everything like that. So I really enjoyed my time with him there.

Yeah. And that's our big thing is developing him as businessman. And that's where it started right at the draft. I think Leo figured that out right away. Can you tell more about that when you're talking about. about developing a player as a businessman. What do you guys mean by that? By that, I mean, that process for us starts right when we start working with a player, you know, letting them understand what the draft's all about, letting them understand

and being a part of a contract negotiation, you know, and understanding the dynamics of the hockey industry. Because in the end, like, they're the ones who have to make decisions along with us every step of the way. So that process begins before the draft, even, you know, as you go into the draft and after the draft. So, but Ryan was referencing more of like, Leo was inquisitive right away about the draft and the process. And he's kind of kept that nature kind of all the way along, which has kind of led us into contract negotiations and where we are now.

Okay. So by the way, Matt did mention Zadano Chara there. Matt represented Zanocara. He's doing this interview with the Zadano Chara jersey over his shoulder in his home office. He's a captain of when hiking. And so we should, let's just quickly, Matt, you're going out to Slovakia for his final skate. When is that? He's going, he's got his final skate, they call it.

It's a charity game. I think it's on August 21st. And I think Z's going to let me coach one of the teams. And Radic Hammer, the Hammer, is going to play in the game, apparently. So I can't wait to get video of that. And it's going to be a great occasion. It's, I think the arena is sold out in trenching. and it's a Pavel Demetra arena, which is great because I represented Pavel too, you know, for a part of his career.

And, no, it's going to be a lot of fun. And it's been a big year for Z, and he's earned everything he's gotten. Yes, he sure has. Okay, so you talked about legal Carlson and business. So where I wanted to start was, obviously since the offer sheet was signed on July 3rd, it has been the talk of the league. It has been the number one topic about Leo Carlson's offer sheet with Phil. and eventually being matched by Anaheim. And I wanted to kind of go back to September.

Pat Verbeek, when he spoke to the media after the Ducks matched, he said that the Ducks had made a fair market offer in around September. Now, I haven't spoken to Pat, but I've spoken to a bunch of people. And what I understand is about the time they signed Jackson Lacombe, which was eight times nine, at that time, the richest deal in Anaheim history, that the Ducks had made an offer to Leo Carl, in the eight times 10 and a half range, which is we know now wasn't going to get it done,

but it was more of a fair market offer where people have really credited you, and some teams begrudgingly, I will say, have really credited you, is that you to Matt and Ryan, you saw something in the market that I don't know a lot of other people believed was going to happen. So can you kind of, you get that offer from the ducks and then take us through what you started to think and why at that time that wasn't the right offer for Leo? So we, listen,

there's always been a partnership with the ducks talking about everything. Everything's been up front, obviously from day one with them. They've been great. You know, it's an offer that we, you know, we're quick to turn down right away. And it wasn't for their lack of trying.

it's just we needed time to kind of figure out the marketplace and where the marketplace was going. And they were tenacious. They were after us on it through September and October. And we used that September-October time to kind of do more research. Yeah. And I think for us, I kind of took the lead on the market research aspect of it, right? Whether it was looking at comps, percentage of the cap, as well as looking at equivalent

value of a contract done up to about 10 years ago to now, including future, right? What have guys signed for them? What are they going to be getting in later years? The other big thing I was looking at was the cap going up. Obviously, COVID hit and there was a flat cap. And now we're seeing the boom after that. And it was at this time, we were trying to wrap our heads around these numbers. Like, for example, from the 2023 to 24 season to the 2028, 29 season, we're going to

see around a 40% increase in cap. Those are astronomical numbers. And we just didn't want to jump on something right away. Yeah, I mean, you could see that this market shift going on. And, you know, we got into November and, you know, the Ducks obviously wanted to keep talking. And honestly, it was our decision not to get into it with them at that point because we wanted to meet with Leo and his family. and we, you know, basically we met with them and went over the marketplace. Ryan put together a fancy slideshow he's all proud of.

You know, that basically educates, our job as agents is to educate our client and our family so that we can all make informed decisions. And what we didn't want to have happened was we didn't want Leo to sign a contract that he would regret in relation to the marketplace in later years. Now listen, $80 million is a lot of money. We understand that. We get that. But we're living in a marketplace, you know,

and we're operating within the NHL marketplace. And every contract that a player signs affects others around him. Yeah. And you have to be cognizant of that, right? I think also really quickly for us, we were still trying to figure out what Leo was as a player. He was 20 at the time. at turn 21.

So still seeing that growth from him throughout the whole year too had us a little bit hesitant to a longer term deal. Yeah, at that time. At that time. And again, that was our decision. You're going to hear me say this. Our decision, not the Ducks.

You know, they were definitely very tenacious on us and talking to us. I think the Ducks, there was a quote from Pat, from Pat in January, where we tabled, you know, you know, negotiations for now. Again, you know, so the boys could focus on the season, which really, you know, after that point, we didn't talk to Leo at all about any contract stuff. You know, I think we all agreed that his focus should be on playing and on the team.

Again, that was our decision not to pursue things until talk until after the season. You know, we needed to kind of like, I think they didn't waver on that, Leo or his family. because I think they trusted us and they trusted our research in the direction that we were going. And the slideshow. And the slideshow. Obviously. Which was great. So, yeah, so we waited until after the season.

Okay, a couple of questions out of that. Because I think people want to know how a relationship works between an agent and a family. Like every agent will tell you that there are deals they love that they did. And every agent will tell you there sometimes they've done a deal where they're not thrilled about it, but that's what the client wanted. Ultimately, who makes the call here? Is it the two of you and say, Leo, this is not the right deal for you? Or does Leo and his family make the call?

Who makes the decision? I think it's, you know, in the end, Leo is the one in charge and we have to empower him to be in charge with as much information as possible that we can provide for him, like in November. you know, we were at that point. And, you know, everyone has a different aversion to risk. You know, I think Leo's very confident in his abilities. I think he was, he's very calm and cool under pressure. I always say about Leo, you know, he's ordering a martini when the plane goes down. You know, there's no panic in his game on the ice or off the ice.

And frankly, when, you know, we made the decision to kind of table it. until after the season, you know, later than look back. He said, okay, I'm going to play hockey. And obviously he got injured a little bit through it, which happens and rebounded from that very well. The Ducks were great partners with us during the season. You know, their sports science department, their player development is top five in the NHL. And, you know, they got him healthy and got him,

got him where he needed to be for playoffs, where he played very well. and we went through the season. And so there was no looking back on our part that way. Did you ever doubt, I mean, it seems like a stupid question to ask now knowing what happened. But in the middle of all this, did you ever doubt your plan? Did you ever waver that this was the right path? No, no, not at all. Because we believed in him as a player.

And we believe that in the direction his career was going as he was evolving. And I think we're all the mind that we have to wait to wait. after the season and then and then assess kind of where we're at. And that's what we did. We got in after the season, you know, we got to that point and then we did another assessment then. Yeah. I think we really helped us with that too is Leo didn't waver either, right?

Like even he got hurt. He was injured for a little bit, but he was very, you know, cool, con collected through the whole thing, which obviously makes our job a lot easier. How often did Pat Verbeak keep coming back to you? Like, how often did he try to say, let's get back to the. the table or let's or did he change his offers like how often are you getting the calls from the team well no i mean i i think after you know it really it was off the table um in january in terms of like feeling offers and doing it but we kept talking you know we were we were still talking on a

regular basis and you know they they were great you know they were great about let the kid play and you know he was there was plenty he was plenty aggressive uh the ducks were aggressively trying to sign Leo all the way along. And they're doing their job. That's their job. If anything, we didn't allow them to do their job because we weren't engaging because, you know, we wanted to get to after the season and get, you know, and have our meeting, postseason meeting with Leo. Okay.

So one of the things that everybody knows about is there's Connor Bedard. There's Adam Fantilli. There's Macklin Celebrini. There's Will Smith. There's a whole bunch of players here. You know, Newport represents. Bedard. Pat Person represents Fantillion, Celebrini, Cortex has Will Smith. The agenting business is a tough, nasty business. How often do you guys compare notes? How often do you talk to other agents to say,

hey, we're doing this with Leo Carlson. What are you doing with Celebrini or what are you doing with Bedard? Does that happen? I mean, I mean, like I said, I've been doing it for a long time. and you get the occasional phone call from an agent saying, hey, how are you doing with this guy or that guy? You know, in this case, I had run into some of the Newport guys up in, up at the draft combine. And, you know, we had chatted once or twice maybe about where he's at with Connor. You know, they're basically two separate.

We looked at them, there are two separate negotiations. It seemed to me that they were all doing the same as us. They're trying to figure out where the market's going. you know and I think that's that's important. Did you have any, did you have any prediction on like who would go first or where Leo would go? Did you think about that at all? Yeah, I mean, so we big, basically we got to after the season, okay, season end. And, you know, I, I mean, obviously the ducks were in touch right away and they were aggressively, like they have been.

They were doing their job. You know, we wanted Leo to get a little time off, off after. after the season. And then we had our meeting in early in June with Leo and his family where we went back over the marketplace. Ryan got to give his fancy presentation again. And, you know, at that point, we had identified that we felt the key comparable is, you know, was Connor Bader.

And we wanted to, our plan was to wait and see where he ended up, you know, in his negotiation, they'd finally negotiate from there. You know, we'll let Baderd set the market. and then we'll negotiate from there. That was our plan. And we figured by September we'd fly out to California and get a deal done and be ready for camp. I think that, you know, Leo's big thing was to avoid any holdouts situation

or avoid missing camp at all like most players. And I think that that's fair. You know, we obviously there was a potential for an offer. sheet because it's written into the CBA. Like the CBA, part of the CBA is that restricted free agents, you know, a mechanism available for restricted free agents is the ability to get an offer sheet from a team. And we knew there was, you know, that on June 30th that that was out there for us. I think before June 30th, every season like the hockey media, you included, agents and

even teams, GMs will ask. If anyone thinks, you know, it's shop talk, really, that you think an offer sheet will happen? Will there be offer sheets this summer? You know, but our feeling was that the highest offer sheet in history was under $10 million in AAV, annual value. And with a cap going up so much that we just felt it was a slim chance of it. And that's not something we were planning on at all. You know, our focus was on BADARD and seeing where that goes. And we told the ducks that, you know, mid-June.

We just said, hey, we really, we've done a lot of research on the market. We've talked them about the market where we think it's going. And, you know, we want to wait and see where Boudard ends up. And then basically negotiate from there. And again, they were doing their job. It was, again, it was us, you know, saying no to really negotiating at that point because we did want to see what Connor was going to get. So Ryan, I'm curious.

You did your first slideshow earlier in the year. You did another one with Leo after the season. How much did your numbers change from, say, September, October to April, May, June? For me, honestly, the numbers really didn't change that much just because nothing had really gotten done at that point in terms of the big players that we were looking at. I think our meeting in June was more just to kind of recap where we were. It was a lot of the same that we had discussed in November. But it allowed us also to narrow in on Connor. Yes.

As we could see the con is, like I told you, you want to see how a player evolves over the course of the season and what direction they're headed. And based on Leo's season and his numbers, his offensive numbers are close to Bedard in those terms, but they're a different style of players. But we felt that was our comp. So that's really it allowed us.

to kind of do that. Yeah. So, and I, I think that was important, and that's what we were waiting for. Okay. June 30th, now teams are allowed to talk to restricted free agents. They can't do an offer sheet until July 1st, but they can legally talk to them on June 30th. How long after 1201 a.m. on June 30th did your phone first ping? Well, I was asleep, but I woke up in the morning to see that they had 12.1.

of 2004, there was a text from a team saying, hey, are you up? Let's talk. How could you go to sleep on June 30th before midnight? I wasn't expecting it. We weren't expecting it, you know. But we had seven or eight teams inquire that day and, you know, four, four teams were ready to make offers, you know, pretty right away, you know, they wanted to be in the mix. And, you know, we were, we were blown away by it a bit. Yeah. you know, we kind of narrowed it, narrowed it down to two teams in which we thought. You know, we did have discussions with the Ducks that day and said this, you know,

this could be coming into play. But, you know, on July 1st, we sent Leo the contract offer in writing, and he was speechless. You know, I think he was overwhelmed by the structure, how it was front-loaded, almost all in signing bonus. And frankly, like, that's, that makes. a huge difference when you're making that decision because that's upfront money that's money in your pocket with compound interest it's the value is even greater and um you know i think the offer that he received was something that in the end i think he and his family couldn't refuse and you know

like the godfather you know i made him an offer he couldn't refuse and i think that's what they they felt that way and that had nothing to do with the ducks it was just you know uh uh Again, they were aggressive throughout, but in the end, I think it was just something that they couldn't turn down. And, you know, our discussions and email with Anaheim, we're going to keep private.

I don't think we want to go through that. I don't think it's fair to them. But again, I, this was, this was our, it's on us. It's our decision in terms of that. And nothing Anaheim did could have prevented, you know, Philadelphia from making that, you know, making that offer.

And they made it. And there were others, too, that were ready, ready to make it. But, you know, I think, you know, we got through that time period. And we waited all the way to July 3rd. We was open for acceptance at noon on July 1st, but we wanted to give it time. And July 3rd, I think, you know, Leo and his family didn't want to lose out on this opportunity. and I think we just made the decision to move forward. And, you know, the Ducks, you know, Leo, when Leo's the offer sheet came across,

Leo's teammates were very excited for them. Everybody called them. You know, I think even after the season was over, teammates were like, Leo, go do the best you can. We'll adjust to whatever number you get. And, you know, I think all of the players were aware that their personal situations could change based on the contract Leo gets. You know, I've been in regular touch with Chris Kreider and Alex Killoren.

They realize their situations could change, but they also... Should clarify the caters represent those two players and the ducks? We do. And I think Chris and Alex realize that's just part of the business, you know, and they accept that, you know. And, you know, frankly, our hope is that, you know, this, like Joe Sackick signed a big offer sheet with the New York Rangers that the Colorado Avalanche matched. We hope the Ducks matching is, and that Leo goes on to win a Stanley Cup like Joe Sackett did. You know, in Colorado, Leo does that in Anaheim. That's what the hope is. Anaheim set up a Zoom call on, you know,

day, you know, day six basically of us waiting. It was last Thursday. They were very, very professional. They're very happy to have them under contract. and everyone talked to each other and we all decided that, you know, we're all going to move forward from here. And, you know, we thought it was important today to come on because we've had a lot of media request, Elliot, but just to come on and kind of give, you know,

give you and give everyone some color as to our thought process and kind of where we're at. But, you know, I think everyone's moving forward and that's what we're going to do. Okay. I mean, it's really interesting stuff. And thank you for doing it. I have a few other questions just about there.

So you said that Leo knew on July 1st that this Philly offer was on the table. Did the flyers give you a deadline? Did they say we have to know by X? They didn't give us a deadline per se like on the first day. But I think we felt a sense of urgency from everyone, whether it's them or other teams that were involved here, to have closure of this. And we felt a need to have closure on this.

So I think that's what led. And again, I've said that, you know, I think there's probably 80 or 90% of players. If they saw that offer, they would have accepted it on 100% first at noon. You know, and I think we wanted to wait out and include the ducks in our, you know, discussions and think it through. But again, it's, this is kind of a life-changing thing for the family. And I think his dad kind of, his dad told me, he goes, that he took charge and said, this is something we have to do. Yeah. You know.

What's his dad's name? Kenneth. Kenneth, kind of very smart business man. But I mean, you know, I was talking to Kenneth this morning. He goes, yeah, it was, I put my foot down. He goes, this was too good an offer, you know. And I think they were, there was pressure from from them to say, let's do this, let's get this done. Because I think Leo was definitely feeling it.

And that's why we did. We moved, we moved and we did it. And again, happy that they accepted it. And Leo's happy and we're all moving forward. Did, did Philly tell you the offer or did they put it? Like, did you see it in an email? Like, how did you get the actual numbers when they did it? Yeah, the actual numbers, I mean, we talked concepts on June 30th and the actual numbers we saw July 1st.

What were your reactions? And what was Leo's reaction when you saw that? He was speechless. Yeah. The phone call with Leo when we email, that was probably the part of this process that stuck out most to me was when we sent him over the numbers of Philly's offer. And it was just dead silent on the phone.

And I was like, Leo, you there? And it was just, the silence was deafening. And he just said, I'm speechless. Yeah. So, and they're like, we got to call. You guys. Yeah. No, I mean, we're, yeah, we're overwhelmed the bit.

I mean, like a little bit of panic. Like, what are we going to do with this thing? Yeah, I mean, I'm on year two years. I looked at it. I was like, not panic, but you know what I mean. It's like, whoa. So, yeah, I mean, again, that's not, that's not on, there's nothing Anaheim could have done or we've done. We got the offer and we have to process it and made that decision and we're moving forward on it.

Okay. So was Philly the only team that actually put an offer sheet in front of you? Like you said, there were four teams that were pretty serious and two that you were. thought about it. Yeah, I mean, we narrowed in. We just zeroed in on them as structure and everything else pretty much right away. Yeah. You know, I think, I think it was a nervous six days until they matched. You know, there was a lot of unknown. I think Leo addressed that in his, in his media. But, you know, I think, I think everyone right now are just happy they matched and Leo's happy to go back. Yeah. That's one of the things that I was curious about is how you help.

him through, like for six days there, you don't know if you're a doc or a flyer. And you've got to be happy to be a doc and you've got to be happy to be a flyer. And he's still, even though he's a really mature and talented young kid, he's still young. He's very young. So how do you help him through that? Because for six days, you don't know what your allegiances are. Yeah, I mean, I think he said it in his media availability that it was a hard week, what he called it, one of the worst weeks of his life,

ready to find out. You know, I mean, you don't sign that. He has to accept whatever decision was made. And, you know, I just, it's an uneasy time, obviously. But, you know, again, I think it was an offer that they couldn't, he couldn't turn down. No one could turn down. And so he felt like he had to go with it and he went with it.

And again, it all worked out. So as this was unfolding, I'm sure you're, phones blew up both of you. I'm sure you had lots of reactions. So I'm wondering what was maybe a reaction or two that you got a text or a phone call or a conversation or anything that stood out most to both of you? I mean, I think it was more of the, you know, one thing that bothered me was, you know, the social media reaction was a bit overwhelming. I think that, you know, this whole process was, was basically our decision in terms of going in this direction. And, you know, I know Anaheim did everything they could to get them signed. And so I think the

social media reaction was, was something that caught us a little bit. But in the end, like I said, I think everyone's happy that it's all done with. Ryan, what about you? Did you get any texts or calls or anything that stood out? Yeah, I got a lot. I got a couple texting calls, but nothing too crazy, nothing too out of the ordinary. I mean, it was just more, right? I think we knew a historic moment was made.

And it was just cool to be a part of it. What did Chara say? Well, he was in Japan and his family. And, you know, he called me. up and I think his first line was how come you didn't get me that? And I went. So yeah, he was all over me on that. So, but anyway.

You know, because the thing is true, and Ryan, you just kind of mentioned it. The business is forever changed. And, you know, I think one of the things that interest me most about this is that we're all in decisions in our lives that take months. And you never know if they're going to work out right or they're not going to work out right. Like this situation is over now and the NHL is different. Like how did you, how do you guys feel? Like this was an overwhelming week, but it was also a long process where you had to wait to figure out if the choices you made turned out to be the right choices.

You must feel kind of relieved in some ways that it worked out this way. Yeah, I mean, it's more of relief that it's over with and that he's signed and we can all move on. I think, I think, you know, again, we wanted to wait. We wanted to wait because we wanted to see how the marketplace was going to develop. And then this happened. And we saw this as a pathway to kind of end the negotiation. And it was an offer again that they couldn't refuse. And it was more of a ramp way for us to move on, you know, all of us

by accepting the offer and moving forward. So I think for everyone, for us, it was obviously the best path forward. And again, it's not personal, it's just business. And I think that's for us, that's the most important thing. And, you know, we think a lot of the ducks and how they've handled them. Again, as I've stated a few times here, you know, it was our decision to handle it this way and to get to this, you know, And we got to this point.

And they were nothing but gentlemen and aggressively trying to sign them. And now we're here. And we're all happy to move forward. Okay. Last question. If somebody would have told you guys when you were back preparing your PowerPoints in September, that this would have ended a five-year deal at $18 million a year with huge bonus money. What would you both have said?

No chance. No chance. We didn't see it coming. But that's offer sheets. It's out of our control. It's out of the team's control. It's an open marketplace, as we talked about. Anyone can do this.

So it's part of the CBA. Nobody did anything wrong. It's part of the CBA. And obviously, we hope in the future there'll be more. I would have said, let's wait to see how the market develops. Yeah, he's smarter than me. Anyway. No, thanks, right.

This was good. Thank you. Thank you very much, guys, for coming on and explaining the process. Thanks so much. Okay, our thanks once again to the caters for making time and all the insight provided in that great conversation there. I don't even want to try to handicap when you'll hear from us next. The last time I did that did not anticipate we'd be back so soon.

So all I will say is the next time you hear from us, we hope it will be for very good reason. Back to regularly scheduled off-season summering. You've been listening to 32 Thoughts of the podcast presented by your Canadian Toyota dealers. Keep enjoying that sunshine. So long? For now.