32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Bruuuuuuuuuuuuce!

Episode Date: April 1, 2022

Jeff and Elliotte are back from the GM Meetings in Florida and have a few things to report. They kick things off with a conversation about Bruce Boudreau and his future with the Vancouver Canucks (2:30) as well as Jay Woodcroft and the Oilers (12:00). The guys then remember the late Eugene Melnyk and wonder what’s next for the Ottawa Senators (13:00).Before taking your questions (43:20), Jeff and Elliotte break down the four teams that have been eliminated from the playoffs and look ahead to their off-season — Montreal (26:00), Philadelphia (31:40), Arizona (35:40) and Seattle (39:10).Music Outro: Otis Junior, Dr. Dundiff - 3 WindsCheck out their full discography on SpotifyThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Sportsnet 650.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Hello, this is Aaron from New Jersey. Just calling in, I had two questions, but I'll keep it quick. Let's get right to the point. So I am a school teacher. I'm a high school teacher, and I know all about the redirection of behaviors that you are trying to improve. A couple different strategies there, but you employed a really nice one. So, you know, I was wondering with an elephant's memory of, uh, what about that,

you know, that, uh, word association podcast full episode that we were promised a little while ago, uh, you know, love everything you do, but that was something on the back burner for a while that I was looking forward to as many were love you guys. Curious what your thought is. See you later. So you know what's interesting? Thank you very much, Aaron in New Jersey. You know what's interesting about that? And thanks for playing that, Amel. I was thinking about that today while I was washing dishes.

As I was thinking about what we're going to do on the podcast today, all of a sudden yellow laces popped into my brain. I said, oh yeah, we've been meaning to get around to that and we've totally dropped it. So I probably should have told you guys this first, is that I'm taking the week off from Sunday, April 17th to Friday, April the 23rd, taking the family away for a few days.

And I'm not going to do the blog that week. If you want to do a podcast that week or two with a different co-host, you're more than welcome to. Jeff, I also won't be appearing on your radio show that week unacceptable both things are all these things are unacceptable and maybe what we'll do is we'll we'll do it before then so they can it can run that week stick one in the can release it that week one in the can then run it that let's do it let's end up doing that one we can do that that is ah we've promised this before who's kidding who we'll try to try

how about that a real bart simpson-esque way yes we will try to try uh welcome once again to 32 thoughts the podcast presented by the all-new gmc at4 lineup merrick friedman delich glad to be with you as we are now back from florida and we've talked plenty about the general managers meetings on the radio show on your blog as well we will have some thoughts on eugene melnick in the future the ottawa senators but elliot i do want to mention we're going to start a new feature on today's podcast we are it was suggest yes oh you suggested it and that is we're going to break down a little bit more in depth teams that once they get eliminated from the playoffs right we're going to do so there's four of them seattle a Arizona, Montreal, and Philadelphia, as we tape this podcast now.

So we're going to talk about them in a little bit. We are, but we're going to start by talking about Gabby and Bruce Boudreaux and the Vancouver Canucks. What are the tea leaves saying about Bruce Boudreaux and Vancouver. After trade deadline, Patrick Alvine, the GM of the Canucks, appeared on Vancouver's radio station, 650 out there, with Dan Riccio and Satch Shaw. By our understanding, Bruce Boudreau's contract is still a little bit up in the air

as an option for next year. Do you see Bruce Boudreau as your head coach long-term? You know what? We haven't got into those discussions yet. I think we're going to be evaluating our team as we move along here. That will be something that we in the hockey ops will sit down

after the season air and talk about. And I saw some tweets about it and Jason Brough sent air and talk about it. And I saw some tweets about it, and Jason Brough sent me a DM about it. You know, hey, you should probably listen to this. And I did, and I sent it to a couple of people, and my reaction was, what do you think of this? And I think a lot of us had the same kind of reaction. It didn't really sound very, I would say,

inviting about the possibility of Boudreaux coming back next year. He's on a one-year contract with a team option for next year, but I think there are some, it's unique. I've been told the language of the contract is unique and that there are protections for Boudreaux in it. However, what I think it also means is that there's a possibility that Boudreaux might not be coming back next year. And I find it incredibly hard to believe. He has done an unbelievable job there. He's coming out of COVID. The team wasn't doing very well. He helped fill that building and bring some fans back and create some excitement and get them going the right way but it hardly seems like a 100 foregone conclusion that he's coming back next year which

i find incredibly hard to believe i was gonna say then the question that everybody is asking themselves right now as they hear this is why like when you go right down the list of things that he was brought in to do and maybe you might look at it and say, well, hold on a second here. Bruce Boudreaux was brought in to be a placeholder before the new coach came. But even if that's a reality, look what he's done. Look what he's done, not just on the ice with the Vancouver Canucks, but off the ice as well. Like listen, whether it was the chants to the great press conferences.

Here's the thing that really impressed me about Bruce Boudreaux. And if you know him or if you've followed his career in the NHL from Washington to Anaheim to Minnesota, you know this about Bruce Boudreaux. Vancouver, all season long, has been a really tense, tight market. The nerves are close to the skin. People react quickly around this hockey team and have this season specifically. It's been a miserable season for the Vancouver Canucks up

until when Bruce Boudreaux was brought in and Jim Rutherford, Patrick Alveen were brought in as well. And it almost as if like right away, Frege bruce boudreaux made everybody relax and laugh and took all the 10 you know when there's like you're at a party or something like that and two people are having a beef or an argument and someone comes into the room and lightens the mood and everything's okay isn't that kind of what boudreaux's done in vancouver like it's stunning it's stunning to me. I agree with that. I completely agree with that.

And he's not as much an X's and O's guy. At least the perception of him is that way. He's more of, he makes people want to play for him and he makes it easier on people to perform. Although I do remember Victor Kozlov once told me, I saw Victor Kozlov once in Russia after he played for Washington and he said Boudreaux was the best coach he ever played for at getting people through the neutral zone.

But anyway, he has the reputation of being better at getting you to play as opposed to how a team is structured and things like that. And sometimes I think that leads to, well, we need more structure. We need more structure. And if you look at what happened in Minnesota, for example, you know, Bill Guerin fired him when his contract was coming up. And essentially what it did was it allowed Guerin to promote Dean Everson full time. Boudreaux was starting to have success in Minnesota that I

don't know that they were expecting. And I don't think they wanted to keep him long-term at the time. And Guerin made the decision. He said, look, like I'm making this change. And it kind of reminds me of the same thing that Boudreaux was building something here in Vancouver, but I just don't know that they're committed to him around him. And the one thing I think here is that Boudreaux's playoff record is such that, you know, people say, well, that's where it catches up to you.

Maybe lack of structure catches up to you there. But the one thing I'm reminded of, it's hard to make the playoffs in this league. You can't win in the playoffs until you at least get to the playoffs. And I think when you take a look at some of these teams, Bruce Boudreaux gets you to the playoffs. And I think there's a lot of teams here that sometimes forget how hard that is. And I wonder if what's going to happen is,

and I'm not saying that I've been told this, but I'm kind of wondering this, is if at some point in time, Boudreau or his representatives are going to go to the Canucks and say, look, if you're not keeping him, we want to know fast because someone else may want to hire him.

Well, that becomes my next point here. Do you not think that Bruce Boudreaux has done enough with the Vancouver Canucks this season to get the attention of other people around the NHL? I think so. We know that Bruce Boudreaux was offered, I believe he was, was he offered officially an assistant position with the Maple Leafs or he wanted something on the Maple Leafs bench?

He wanted to be on the Leafs bench, but it never went anywhere. And I think it was that he had maintained it would be the only assistant position in the NHL that he would want, that he sees himself as he is. He's a head coach. But when it came to his, the team that he grew up admiring and playing for, he would be an assistant coach. But hasn't Boudreaux done enough in this last thing? Like there were a lot of people surprised when Boudreaux got hired. Like people thought that, okay, he's done in Minnesota. Is that it for Bruce Boudreaux?

He comes back into Vancouver and helps pop the team. Same players, right? Same player. It wasn't as if, you know, the new management came in and brought in a whole new, it's the same players players that brudro worked with here and got different results out of these guys and all of a sudden listen jt miller is having a a career season i know and brudro will always say it helps when you have an elite level goaltender but has he not done enough to get the attention of other people around the nhl i think so jeff and again it goes back to the point i'm trying to make which is people forget how hard it

is to make the playoffs in this league it reminds me of i remember i was having this argument with someone when the blue jays made the playoffs for the first time in whatever year that was 2015 when the first time they made it in 20 something years we were having an argument about whether or not they should keep david price next year and obviously they got blown out of the water but yeah so one of my buddies said to me well you know price doesn't pitch very well in the playoffs and i said to them they haven't made the playoffs in 23 years like how about you just get them to get you there here's the other thing elliot We've talked about this before. 82 games, a lot of games. The season is really long and there comes a point where it really

feels like you're grinding and lifting heavy every single day. And I don't know that Bruce Boudreau is someone that makes it miserable for anybody to come to the rink. I'm with you on this. that makes it miserable for anybody to come to the rink. Like I'm with you on this, like getting to the playoffs is tough. Getting through a season is tough. And when you have a coach with a certain disposition and every time you look behind you, when you're on the bench, like,

oh, that guy and that look and that sneer and now he's ignoring me and oh, that's great. I think you need to have people around that help you get through 82 games. I really do. And I see Bruce as one of those guys. Like Bruce is the guy that as long as he's talking about hockey, hasn't had a bad day in his life. And I know he has, like Bruce Boudreaux has had personal tragedy in his life, but as long as he's around hockey and talking hockey, he's in a great spot

and he makes it great for everybody around him. Do you ever read Moneyball? Of course. and he makes it great for everybody around him. Do you ever read Moneyball? Of course. So what does Billy Bean talk about in that book? He talks about the look of a player. Someone looks like a player.

Someone doesn't look like a player. What's his line? We're not selling blue jeans here. Yeah. We don't care how it looks. We only care about the results. Yeah. What he's trying to say is don't overthink it. And I just wonder if this is getting

overthought look it's been a hard few years in vancouver the math isn't their friend that looks like they've run out of road but he injected some life this year yeah i always say this be careful what you wish for are you selling blue jeans or are you trying to win and i would just say that if i was vancouver i would be very careful about what i'm doing here uh another coach of a canadian team want to get your thoughts on since you write about him at 32 thoughts blog and that is jay woodcroft with the edmonton oilers that is a decision that you write will probably be dealt with in the offseason i had a chat with ken holland uh after the gm meetings you know he was the one who brought up the salary cap yep the thing in the playoffs season i had a chat with ken holland uh after the gm meetings you know he was the one who brought up the salary cap yep the thing in the playoffs and then i just asked him quickly

woodcroft if you talked to him at all and he just said look like i told him we're going to sit down the end of the year he said obviously things are going really well they won their 15th game under him the other night against the kings he kind of joked like if it goes into the dumper in the next couple of weeks, then, you know, who knows what's going to happen. But he said that the way it's going right now, it looks really good. And, but they, he said, we talk after the season.

So that's where it is. Let's get to the story that dominated the headlines and dominated discussions Tuesday when we were in Florida at the GM's meetings. And that is the passing of Eugene Melnick. We've talked a lot. You've written about plenty. We've spoken about on the radio show.

And a couple of thoughts here, one on Eugene and one on the future of the Ottawa Senators. A lot of people have made the correct point that it is a complicated past that Eugene has with the Ottawa Senators. And that happens. One of the points that I've tried to make over the past few days is, you know, we're moving into an era now where teams are corporately owned. And we talked plenty about the Fenway Sports Group and their purchase of the Pittsburgh Penguins. So they got, you know, they got soccer, they've got baseball, now they've got hockey. And this is probably the future of sports ownership. And we're moving away from a singular owner or a family-based ownership structure in all

of sports, certainly now in hockey. And I think we lose something. I don't know what it is, but it just changes. It changes the city and it changes the sports. When I say Eugene Melnick, what are the things that come to your mind elliot there's a lot and it doesn't always go down the same roads i mean you remember the beginning you know he saved the senators the promise that came with that the eagles concert he had is kind of like his first official act and all the excitement you know the stanley cup run i talked

in the blog about the one incident where in the middle of a playoff game a game they would get knocked out in 2010 he tried to go on the dressing room in the intermission to fire up the team and yeah and brian murray came running down to stop him from doing that i got actually a text message about the fact that in that series on the road uh he flew in to pittsburgh on his jet and wanted to address the team before the game and some of the staff like put up some you know they just created some obstacles that he couldn't get there in time and so what he could do is he could high-five the players going out on the ice. But, you know, he loved the Senators. He really did love the Senators.

And he wanted them to win, and he cared about them a lot, and he loved being the owner of the Senators. You know, I would say that the last few years haven't been easy. The Alfredson thing, I think is a big deal. I don't think you should be surprised to see them reach out to Alfredson and say, how can we fix this? Because I don't think it was ever going to happen under Melnick. It became a very difficult place to work.

You know, there were people who quit out of frustration. There were people who were kind of fired, who were good people. And there were some people who stayed under very stressful circumstances. And I do think that that's something that's going to have to be fixed as well. I just think the biggest question is, you know, what's going to be the future of the team?

Right now, the team is kind of in trust. There's an executor. I believe it's Sheldon Planner, who's been a longtime lawyer there and a member of the Board of Governors from the Senators and has been seen at BOG meetings for a long time. You know, his daughters, Anna and Olivia, Melnick had said he wanted them to take over the team.

It's not unheard of in NHL circles. I mean, obviously the biggest one would be the Warts family, but I don't know that anybody's been as, as young as his daughters have been. I think one's 22 and the other's 20, but obviously you have people in place if they want to do it, they can teach them the business. And I believe it was Olivia who was an intern there for a while or worked on the staff

and I actually heard very good things about her. I mean, that's got to be decided. Are they going to keep it in the family? Are they going to sell the team? I mean, there would be a lineup of people that are going to sell the team. I've said to you many times, I don't think that team is going anywhere. I think they will work on getting the arena downtown. That process is done. Someone reached out to me today and said, they read what I wrote and they heard what I said and said, you're right to say that team's not going anywhere. Gary Bettman has fought for Arizona. He hasn't had to be as vocal about it, but he believes very strongly in Ottawa. And someone said to me too, that he knows the optics of moving a team out of the capital of Canada

and how that would look like a few years ago. I think in some frustration, I think some people said, what if we just packed up and went to Quebec city? But, you know, someone just said to me, don't even go down that road. It's not going to happen. That team's going to be there. I think the question is just going to be, you know even go down that road. It's not going to happen. That team's going to be there. I think the question is just going to be, you know, who's going to own it.

And I think there's a lot of interest. But again, it comes down to the Melnick daughters. What do they want to do? And they deserve their time to wrap their head around what's happened and mourn. And then we'll find out how they feel. and mourn and and then we'll find out how they feel you know we know that some people like well justin bieber for one have kicked tires on the idea of owning the ottawa senators how many different rumors do you think we're going to hear in the next little while about various ownership groups trying to get in and purchase the ottawa senators should they go up for sale you know i

think there's already people positioning like i think there have been some people who've been in contact with the league for quite some time i think there are minority owners of current nhl teams who've done it i think there have been people kind of around the periphery of the game that have done it i think there have been some other groups outside of the game that have done it and like i, I think the biggest question is going to be is what does the family want to do? But I believe Bettman is prepared. I think that he knows if this team is going to go on the market or if there's going to be a sale, he has people lined up that he can say,

okay, do you want to talk about this? Are you willing to do this? And it's going to be a big number. I mean, there's been at least one attempt where somebody tried to lowball them at like a 400 450 million dollar thing and the league laughed at it they're they're not doing it it's going to be a bit especially with the possibility of a new downtown rink on the horizon it's going to be much higher than that i think at the end of the day the sanders fans have to know, I believe the, and I wrote it today and I'll say it again, I believe the NHL has a plan for an Ottawa team downtown and ready. I was really impressed

at how Pierre Dorian spoke. I mean, he was the first one to come out of the meeting on Tuesday. General Manager of the Ottawa Senators talking about it, the late owner, and how emotional he was and how visibly moved and how compassionately he spoke about Eugene Melnick. He's someone that meant a lot to a lot of people. He gave a lot. He made a commitment to the city of Ottawa, to the franchise, to try and build a winner.

I think one of the saddest parts about his passing is he won't get to see, I think, all the work that we all did together to try to build a winner. the great man that he was as far as how much he cared about Ottawa Senators. I'm so thankful to him on a personal note. He allowed me to be one of the 32 GMs in the league. 32 GMs in the league. It's an elite position. And I'm so thankful for him for giving me that opportunity. And I want to promise the fans in Ottawa that we will deliver a Stanley Cup one day. That was pretty impressive because I don't think Melnick is always the easiest guy to work for. No, we all know that. Like we've all heard the stories.

Everybody has a story who's worked there. And listen, I thought Dorian was really brave to do that, to come out and face everybody and speak the way that he did and good for him. And some of the things he said were quite touching and beautiful. I do think, one thing I do want to say is I really feel for someone like Roger Lajoie.

Now, many of you listening may not know that name. Roger in the Toronto area is a sports legend, longtime host on Sportsnet 590, The Fan. You know, Eugene has, you know, employed him in a number of different positions in OHL Mississauga, in AHL Belleville, and, you know, with the NHL team, the Ottawa Senators as well.

And I know that Roger was really feeling it when Eugene passed away. And I just want to make sure that I mentioned Roger Lajoie's name through all this because I'm a, listen, I have a lot of respect for Roger. Yeah, they were tight, very tight. I just want to make sure that his name gets mentioned here as well as someone, you know, who really cared for the late Ottawa Senators owner. And you know what else, Elliot? I thought about this, was it this yesterday afternoon out for a run. You know what I really loved? I really loved hearing Eugene Melnick on with Bob McCallum.

If you ever really wanted to know what he was thinking, you had to turn into those interviews. Now, I know it ruffled some feathers in Ottawa that here he is, the owner going on the Toronto radio station. But it wasn't as if he was going on there to waive any Toronto flight. He was going on there as Eugene Melnick, owner of the Ottawa Senators, and always made that obvious

on the number one sports radio property in the country. And those, first of all, those interviews got Eugene in hot water sometimes around the league for a couple of different reasons, but they were must listen to. I'm really going to miss, you know, hearing Eugene Melnick interviewed because no matter what it was,

television was radio was podcasts. Yeah. He always knew you were getting something out of Eugene and we pass on our condolences here to the family and the friends of Eugene Melnick. you know by the way before we talk about some teams i got a call after my hit on your radio show to see how good i was no to say you should let merrick talk more no actually after today you should probably never be allowed to speak again. Actually, after today, you should probably never be allowed to speak again because it was from John Davis, our buddy, West Coast

Hockey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he, and he agreed with me that your idea of the chase shootout is the dumbest idea you've ever come up with. That covers a lot of ground, first of all. Second of all, I'm just, I'm just throwing ideas out there.

It was. And listen listen it's funny because i i asked colin campbell about that who was on the hour after you were i hope he laughed his head off and said he said they've talked about it oh my god he said it's been i don't think it's gonna happen but it's been though just so everyone listening is on the same page here we were talking elliot and i were talking on the radio thursday about the blake Wheeler shootout goal against Craig Anderson, where he approaches the net slowly, appears to not just slow down, but it appears to stop. And then it's about, you know, a hundred shoulder fakes, Pat Kane style, and then tucks it over

Anderson's glove. And the question is, did he stop? And then the question then becomes, do you want this as a shootout or do you want the shootout to replicate what a breakaway should be and when you're on a breakaway someone's giving chase so the idea is an example that i brought up to you for age was our kids do this in three on three instead of a two-minute penalty someone gets a penalty shot but someone's allowed to give chase someone lines up from the blue line you grab the pocket center ice and the chase is on that way it replicates a breakaway i'm just lobbing these ideas out there ellie that's your worst idea ever and

i just i actually want it to happen because i want to see the players who don't get to take shootouts but they're always the chasers that's worse than being the the oh okay we got a bench minor you go to the box and serve it you get the chase instead yeah the example we raised was nick eelers ilia labushkin no shot attempts in the shootout 476 unsuccessful chases you just go chase that'd be a whole new stat too how many successful chases listen man i'm coming up with something here like i i don't expect you to understand any of this 15 years from now you'll look back i understand that it's stupid look at this look at this merrick was so far ahead of his time um all right let's get to some teams here montreal philadelphia seattle and arizona all have one thing in common uh they've all been

eliminated from playoff contention so far. Let's begin with Kent Hughes's team, the Montreal Canadiens. And the question we ask for all of these teams, Elliot, what now? It's just amazing. Think about where we were a year ago. Oh, crazy town. I know. And now here we are with Montreal. We've gone from the Canadiens about to begin their ride to the Stanley Cup final, to the Canadians maybe getting the number one overall pick and getting eliminated from the playoffs in the middle of March. There we were, watching the Montreal Canadiens respect attendance bylaws and not try to break them in any way, shape, or form

as their team went to the Stanley Cup final. There's no way there were more than 5,000 people in the building. Impossible. So what happens now? what happens now what happens now i think one of the most interesting questions i have for them is okay first of all you got to think that marty san luis getting an extension here right you're gonna drop another boudreaux note on us here no no unless he doesn't want to do it yeah so marty san luis coming back. So that's number one. Number two, I think is, do we see Carey Price again? That's the only other thing for the rest of this season that I look at with them.

Because if Carey Price comes back and plays, and I think there's a chance he's playing somewhere else next year. If he doesn't come back and play, then where are we? To the Price question, I have no answer. Yeah. I could see Carey Price coming back and playing somewhere else. I could see Carey Price riding off into the

sunset. Think of all the things that he's already done. I mean, I don't know. Like I don't have an, I don't have a concrete answer for any of it. It's all comes down to his body, right? So. Correct.

So number one question, San Luisuis we think we know the answer to that number two question price don't know we have no idea as we as we do this podcast the answer to that but to me i i see it being extremely difficult for him to get traded if you know he doesn't play a game between now and the end of the season if he does get into a few games then i could see the possibility of it you know the other thing i've wondered is you know is there any chance he could be any way like weber in the sense that the body and again i'm not reporting that i know this to be a fact but you know i watched weber right off to the sunset at the end of last year and you just wonder is there any chance price could be going

through the same thing is there any part of them that says my body can't do this anymore so i think those are all the questions we have but my number three question jeff is how big fish are the canadians going to be this summer are they going to say next year we're going to continue to turn it over to the kids all of our prospects are going to play we're going to move out petrie we're going to see who else wants to go. Do we continue to turn over our group and see where some of these guys are? Or are they going to go out and are they going to try to get somebody? Are they going to try to land a big free agent? Are they going to try to land a big body like a star player somewhere?

Or do they just say, you know what? It's not our time and we're doing a rebuild. Because I thinkago is going full rebuild but my question is how far is montreal gonna go but here's the thing about rebuilds that i always come back to what are rebuilds all about getting good players and this is what i liked about well the rangers for example the rangers got artemi panarin yeah like i wonder how closely well the thing the thing is, he picked them, right? He did.

Who's picking Montreal right now? But if someone's saying, hey, I want to, and I don't know who it is. Like, I understand what you're trying to say. But if rebuilds are all about getting the best possible players and someone falls into your lap, do you worry about, well, it doesn't fit our timeline? Or do you say, you know what? Here's a really good player that can help make us respectable while we rebuild and help our young prospects. It doesn't matter what the position is. So my only question is, and again, I know there was some luck involved at the lottery,

but I just wonder how closely this rebuild is going to mirror what Jeff Gordon did with the Rangers. Your dynamic changes if a star player says, I want to play for you. So maybe that's the question. Does Montreal have someone who says, I'm coming there? I don't know. Or if it's no, and they say, look, we're not going to chase. We're going to just grow. That's my thing for Montreal. Is this a full rebuild or is it we're rebuilding but we're

also going out to get some big players okay again i'm gonna say the same thing that you just said i am not reporting this i am spitballing this if the montreal canadians because i just thought of a name the montreal canadians are committing to a traditional rebuild here and we're loading up on first rounders. Hey, we got the draft in our backyard this year. And Chris Letang's deal expires and it doesn't resign with the Pittsburgh Penguins and says, you know what? I wonder what it feels like to play in Montreal. And you're Kent Hughes. What do you say? Oh, sorry. You know what? We're not following your timeline here. We're following Nick Suzuki's timeline and you don't fit. Like, I think the question with Letang is purely health.

I don't think anybody questions his ability. I think it's all health. I think that the biggest issue that Letang has faced in Pittsburgh, getting a contract on his term. So my question is, does Montreal feel any differently? No idea. We know that they're going to move Petrie out. Does that open a spot to bring in another established player?

Well, sure it does. Or do you use that spot for one of your kids? I think Justin Barron is going to be a really good defenseman for a long time. I think we all can see that and suspect that with Justin Barron. But Justin Barron is 20 years old. Romanov is 22 years old. They've got Harris coming. They have the possibility of Struble coming.

But then you always have to ask yourself too, how many is too many kids specifically on the blue line? Right. That's the only question. Okay. To the Philadelphia Flyers, this season has not gone the way it was intended. And we just saw Claude Giroux traded to the Florida Panthers as well um Justin Braun

goes to the New York Rangers Derek Broussard goes to the Edmonton Oilers geez I don't even know where to begin with the questions about the Philadelphia Flyers uh I don't think they're going to do a traditional rebuild that is not the Fly Flyers' MO, not a chance. I think we're all still very much of the mind that they're going to load up on whoever is available and they can fit under their cap. Do you feel otherwise? No, I think Kadri's going to be a big target there. But I think the questions they're going to have is,

who's going out? Is Provorov going to be there? Is Sanheim going to be there? What's Ryan Ellis' health? out you know is provarov going to be there is sanheim going to be there what's ryan ellis's health those are my big questions is who's staying who do they believe is a long-term flyer that's number one chuck fletcher he got the vote of confidence yep is there any reason to believe that's changed i i don't have any intel that says to me it is but i've i've just wanted to make sure at the end of the year is mike yo staying are they going to get somebody else could a john tortorella

end up there could a rick tockett end up there i think they have a lot of questions that they kind of have to answer here but i do agree with you i i think they're going out hard i i said the moment that dave scott went out and had that press conference that we're going for, Kadri was the number one name on my list. And I think there's reason to believe that even though he's still playing somewhere else and might win a Stanley Cup this year. I think Philly is going to have a fascinating, fascinating off season. I think their renewal numbers and their sponsorship numbers are a little bit soft and they have a way that they tend to react to that.

And that way is to go out and get something shiny that the fans find attractive. To the Proveroff question, I think we've talked about this before. I still believe that they're not going to make their minds up on Proveroff until they see him play with Ryan Ellis. Listen, unless a whopper lands in Chuck Fletcher's lap, because I think the plan all along was Ellis and Proveroff, and

Ellis got hurt and stayed hurt, and they never really saw it. And I don't know that you make your mind up on a 25-year-old that you've invested so much in until you see him playing with Ryan Ellis for at least at least one season no free each I think when people call Philadelphia for the home run trade I'm pretty sure that Sanheim's name much like maybe even connect me to those are the names that are out there well I oh you know what you I'm

glad you mentioned connecting because that's a name I should have mentioned too. I didn't before. The thing is that after you signed Ristelainen, I'm not sure you can keep both Provorov and Sanheim. But then, you know, Provorov signed, Sanheim has to be signed. The, the, yeah, that's the thing. The only thing about Sanheim is,

is his contract is up at the end of next season. Right. The clock says that you have to make a decision. And the other thing you have to worry about here is what if you don't get Ellis next year? I mean, all of us are hoping the guy can come back and play. Yeah, I know. But what if you don't? Are you banking another season?

If your sole question is we need to see Provorov play with Ellis, you've got to ask, what if he doesn't? Like, how do we feel? Like the thing with me with Provorov is like, I know they're frustrated with him and I know he's frustrated with them. I understand all that, but this has been going on for a long time. And you know, the old line bleep or get off the pot. Like, I wonder if we're, we're getting there with Provorov and Philly.

Like everybody here has to decide where they want to go. The only problem is if you're going to make a decision on Provorov right now, are you not making it the worst possible time? Well, the only reason I would say no is that they could have done this last year, right? Because there was some frustration last year, but they waited it out. Okay, Arizona Coyotes. And first of all, we wish Clayton Keller all the best. That was gruesome, gruesome to watch and he's out long-term and like it looked bad on impact. But then when you see Logan Couture, who's standing right beside him, starts signaling right away. Players know, players know how, how bad things are. We wish him the speediest of recoveries because that was a real tough one to watch. Arizona Coyotes.

What's next, Freedj? Well, I think we all know what's next. It's the, you know, Jack McBain, you know, he'll get his chance. Nathan Smith, who was traded from Winnipeg with the Brian Little contract, he'll get his chance. They got Vemelka signed. I'm assuming Chikrin will be dealt in the offseason. Nick Ritchie's going to play there for another year. He's been good. Hang the off season nick richie's gonna play there for

another year he's been good hang on nick richie's been good you know the one thing i'll say is tournier gets those guys to play hard like this is not a team that's going down meekly they they play hard for their head coach yep and that that's not an insignificant thing i think next year again i don't think they're going to be a great team. I think they're going to play hard. I'm really curious to see. They got a lot of cap room. I'm curious to see who's going to play there. Are they going to have people who are going to want to go there and say, look, like we talked about this. I've had a difficult time with my last team. I need a mental reset. I'm going to go there go there for a year like how is all of this gonna

go are there gonna be players who want to play there like there were people in the organization and elsewhere who were not happy about my reporting about the meeting and they said you know the the players didn't say anything that you attributed to them. Okay. But what I said was, well, Matthew Schneider was there from the Players Association. And what he did was what he's supposed to do. He played the heavy for the players. And I said to somebody, do you really think that the players are going to go to their

owner or their CEO, as Javier Gutierrez is, and they're going to be honest when they know that they hold their fate in their hands. I think some veterans might do that, but I don't think everybody will do that. So I think we're all curious to see how this is going to go. We'll see who their top pick is, where they're drafting, but we're now in the phase of if you're a young player arizona is going to give you a chance or you're a player that needs a year to unwind and try to get yourself back arizona is going to give you a chance but the one thing

i do say is that they've played hard for tourne, but I still think we have a lot more questions about the future of this franchise than we have answers. And what does that mean for players wanting to go there? Here's the big one. And we still don't have an answer. What if they don't get the arena deal? Yes. That's the huge one.

Then what? But I'm with you. I think there will be some players that need to reset and I don't think it'll be easy, but I think there will be some players that need to reset. And I don't think it'll be easy, but I think there will be players that will go. Like there are some agents that I talked to who are like, oh no, I would turn my guys away. And then there's a couple that was like, no, this is an NHL job is an NHL job. An NHL contract is an NHL contract. This is still an NHL team, despite the fact that they're not playing in an NHL building. It's still an NHL contract. This is still an NHL team, despite the fact that they're not playing in an NHL building. It's still an NHL team. These are still NHL contracts. Let's finish up with the expansion, Seattle Kraken. I don't think it's right to measure them against the Vegas Golden Knights,

the team that officially eliminated them from playoff contention. But things did not go well for Seattle based on what we saw at the beginning of the season with this lineup. And first of all, I don't think we expected the goaltending to perform quite like this. They were fighting it all season long because of the goaltending to begin with. But even given that, should we have had bigger expectations for the Seattle Crackers? Should we have expected more from this lineup? For one thing, I think the teams were a lot smarter this

time around. They weren't, they weren't falling into the same traps. They got to find people who can score. I heard there was a point this year where I think even ownership was saying to the

hockey elves, we got to, we got, we got to do something here. We got to do something. And Ron Francis was like, no, like we can't be stupid about this. And the number one thing I thought he did that was smart was he got a lot of draft picks. He's got to build up their prospect base. And that is absolutely true. But I think the one thing they

do have to do, they have to go out and do is they have to find offense. They have to be aggressive in the search of creative players. You know, you still have to score to win in this league. Sometimes I think we all talk defense, defense, and you have to be able to check and you have to play hard D, but you also got to be able to score. And that's the one thing I remember the beginning of the year, there were people who said, you know, who's going to score on this team?

And that turned out to be true. Like I've talked to you about this, like to me, John Klingberg, that's a guy who I think if you're the crack and you're going after, that's a guy who can create offense and you need that on your team now. And that's what I think Seattle with all its cap room and its draft picks, it has to go out there and like who are the

best offensive players available and we have to find a way to get our hands on some of them i'm glad you brought up goal scoring because you know what i find myself saying now more so than ever you mentioned this in the the blog this week about how goal scoring is up and like we're seeing like scores out of 1985 all over again you know 11 to 2 9 to 3 like we're seeing these i find myself i catch myself all the time because my default and i think a lot of us are all have always been when we're talking about teams is yeah but can they win two to one games yeah but can they win a three to two game you know what i find myself saying to myself more than anything else can this team win a seven, six game?

Because that's in a lot of ways, the way that it's going right now with the offense, with teams that can put up big numbers on you on any given day. Can you keep pace? It's one thing to your point about playing a lockdown two to one game. And I get that.

These are playoff scores, sure. But the way the game is trending right now with the increase in offense, I find myself looking at teams and saying, yeah, you know what? I can see them winning 3-2. I can't see them winning 7-6. I'm with you on that one. To me, I catch myself saying that more and more. Yeah, but can they win 7-6? And I think we're going to start saying that more and more about teams as goal scoring continues to rise. Well, I don't know if that's going to continue. This year, there's no question that, you know, because of the condensed schedule, they're not practicing.

I think that's got a lot to do with it. I also do think, and we have briefly talked about this before, how many true franchise goalies are out there right now? Handful. I don't think there's that many, really, which changes the equation too. But I agree, Jeff. I don't know if this that many really, which changes the equation too. But I agree, Jeff. I don't know if this will happen in the playoffs

and I don't know if this will continue next year. But one thing I do believe absolutely is that we are entering an era where you have to have offensive talent and they need to find it. And that, Elliot, is a good thing for the NHL. Yeah. Let's hit a break. Come back with some emails and a couple of phone calls as well.

Wrap up another tidy pod to get your weekend started. We're back in a moment. Okay, welcome back to the podcast. Couple of emails and a voicemail. A voicemail. Hey, the thought line is always open. 1-866-311-3232. Email 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca.

To the phones, Emil. Jeff, Elliot, how are you guys? Joe here from Massachusetts. So I'm driving home from work right now, listening to the Johnny O'Dea interview. And as a Bruins fan, I just wanted to sincerely thank you guys for giving me some PTSD, reliving that,

that goal in the cup final there. You even put the audio in there and everything. That was great. I did have a question though, about the GM meetings. I know you guys were just down there. It's just kind of about the general format. You know,

it's a lot of different opinions in one place. Is there, you know, do the GMs get to propose different questions and stuff that they might have, or does the league kind of give a list of hot button issues? Um, yeah.

Thanks guys. Love listening to the pod. You guys do some great work. Have a good one. That's a great one. Sorry about the Johnny Oduya, Chicago PTSD of that. That was,

that was a blitz at the end of that game. Um, you want to tackle this one. It's not the NHL that presents the items. I mean, you know, various managers, you know, table of things that they want to get, that they want to get discussed. It's sort of both.

So the NHL, like there's some things that are part of it. You know, Stephen Walkam, who runs the officiating, he gives a presentation. George Peros, who runs the Department of Player Safety, he gives a presentation. The league brought, who runs the Department of Player Safety, he gives a presentation. The league brought Sheldon Kennedy down this time, and he was part of a presentation and a panel discussion. So sometimes there are things that the league says,

you know, we're going to talk about. They tell them what the cap is going to be next year, for example. Things like that too. But there is a question sent out, where is there anything you guys want to talk about and for example this year ken holland of edmonton he's the one who brought up the cap in the playoffs so it's i think a hybrid is the right way to answer it there's certain nhl initiatives and there's certain gm based initiatives you know one of the gms

was kind of laughing with me because like they really know how to run meetings is what he said. They're really good at limiting debate on things they don't want to talk about too much because they're like, oh, okay, well, we're out of time. We got to go on to the next thing in our meeting. So that ends this conversation. He actually said it's a pretty good skill that they have there. So it's sort of both. It's these are the things that we need to talk about but what do you guys have that you want to talk about so frivolous things like should a player get a minus when his team pulls the goalie and they're scored against in an era now where goalie pulls are happening earlier and earlier yes this is a conversation that I had with someone

who was trying to get this table that the manager's meeting, Elliot. I would imagine those don't get much concert. When you have a room full of people in there, you have people who come up with those kinds of ideas. If I remember correctly, and I apologize if I'm butchering the story, but I think I have it right.

When they change that on a power play, you can have choice of which side of the ice you want the first face-off on. Like that was just, I believe that was Ron Francis who came up with that. And he was just thinking about that as a player. And that was on nobody's radar. And he, I heard he said, why don't we do this?

And everybody kind of heard it and said you know what let's do it and it became a rule so i think there is room for that kind of stuff jeff it's just that if they you know if they really feel that it's to us esoteric or not going anywhere they'll cut off discussion on it you know what i i wonder if they've discussed and i'd be curious to hear the various managers uh discussing the pros and cons of it or the philosophy behind it when it comes to face-offs. When you're a team that's on the power play, say there's like, I don't know, a minute 20 left in the period and you start the period after on the power play and the play in the previous period ended with you having possession of the

puck in the offensive zone. I wonder if anybody has proposed or they've had a conversation about not starting the next period with a face-off at center ice, but a face-off back in the offensive zone. Why should you have a face-off back at center ice when you're on the power play? It's not as dumb as your show idea from Radko Gudis. No, you don't get to take a shootout attempt,

but you know what? For the 98th time, you can go try to chase a guy. Tell me you wouldn't love to see Radko Gutis chase like Captain Caveman, try to chase down Nick Ehlers. That would be hilarious just for the visual of it. No shootout attempts, but he's got 948 tries to catch somebody. I think the chase, that could be a really good one. And you know, deep in your heart, there's part of you that really likes this.

You just don't want to admit it to me. No, I'm pretty shallow and it's terrible. The first part of that is right. Trevor in Edmonton says some really nice things about Amal Delic calling him the real MVP. And I think this is why Amal has recommended that we read this question on the podcast. There you go. Kudos to Amal from Trevor in Edmonton. I didn't know you had relatives in Edmonton, Amel.

His question, he says, is regarding LTIR, cap circumvention in the playoffs. I'll use Mark Stone of the Vegas Golden Knights as my example. What steps does the NHL take to ensure that Stone is legitimately injured leading up to the playoffs?

Does the NHL take the word of a vegas team doctor does the nhl employ their own doctors to ensure the teams like vegas don't circumvent the cap it's funny bill daily talked about this on tuesday after the the second day of sessions well it's getting tougher now um you know first of all the nhl can demand you see a doctor at any time, right? Or demand medical reports at any time. And one place where it absolutely changed was the expansion draft last year. Look, I don't think Shea Weber can play anymore. I think it's legit. But they were also really unhappy about the whole Carey Price thing.

And teams accused Montreal of manipulating the expansion draft. And the NHLL I think on some level felt it was potentially true and they did not commit to Shea Weber's never going to play again usually what happened when a guy went LTA are like Pronger would have to go to Arizona at the beginning of the year doctor would say no he can't play and then you never see him again right well now you know they made Weber see the doctor a couple extra times this year. And Jeff Jackson actually told me that when he,

he's an agent now, he represents Connor McDavid, but when he worked in the front office in Toronto, I think it was Michael Pekka they had a LTIR case with, and he said the league was all over them. I don't think the league really wants to police this stuff incredibly, our case with and he said the league was all over them i don't think the league really wants to police this stuff incredibly but i think what's happened in the last calendar year and then like we talked about the kucherov thing when you start putting up the 18 million over the cap t-shirts

that's when you're just asking for more investigation so like i do think they've stepped up i think with vegas betman you you know, when he was asked, you know, are you satisfied with Vegas? He said. Based on what I know about it to this point, yes. I'd say the same. Wait, you're looking for us to disagree on that? No, I saw the look. Well, no, I was thinking about the question and how my answer is going to be scrutinized. So I wanted to make sure there was

no ambiguity and that it couldn't be misconstrued. Not that that ever happens on things that I say. Anybody else? That answer said to me a was expecting it b was ready for it but c they've been doing their due diligence on it because there have been a lot of teams complaining about it yeah that was an interesting moment on the tuesday when he was asked about that although kelly mccrimmon when i asked him about it said basically said no one's no one's done it to my face what did you make of the pause between when Bettman was it was it was pretty interesting pause between when Bettman was asked that question and he gave the answer and he said something about oh I you know

don't want to you know I don't want to make sure that I measure my words because you know you and the media will interpret it a certain way should we read anything into that pause? I just think he wanted to make sure he said what he wanted to say. And you know what that said to me? That said to me that he's heard the complaints. Fair. Let's end on this one. Scott in Ottawa.

This is kind of hockey trivia too, but it's also a good question. I was happy to see Jack Eichel get traded, the surgery he wanted, and to get back on the ice. Amen. I was also to see Jack Eichel get traded, the surgery he wanted, and to get back on the ice. Amen. I was also excited at the prospect of him finally getting to see some playoff action. However, with the Knights on the outside looking in, well, actually, as we record this right now,

they are in the final wildcard spot, but hello, Dallas, look out. This might not be the case. Eichel must be at the top of the active list for best player slash career never to play a playoff game. But who's at the top of the retired list for best player slash career to never play a playoff game? Well, right now, the leader is Jeff Skinner. So Guy Chiron was the longtime record holder. He played from 1969 to 81. You could tell that Chiron was kind of cursed holder. He played from 1969 to 81.

You could tell that Chiron was kind of cursed because he was drafted by Montreal and he's there like the one year that they didn't make the playoffs. And off to Atlanta, I want to say after that, correct? Detroit, Kansas City, Washington. You know who you're thinking of? You're thinking of Guy Swinard.

Oh, I'm thinking of Guy Swinard. You're right. No, I'm sorry. Which is funny because i made the same mistake before so he played for montreal detroit the kansas city scouts and uh the and the capitals and he never made the playoffs now as you said jeff skinner who's over 800 games now he's the leader another guy who was the leader at one point was uh jay bowmeister when he was traded from calgary to st louis he had actually passed sharon and was number one and then he went to

the playoffs so he got knocked out and another guy who was very high until recently was zach bogosian but not only did he break it he won a stanley cup same as ron hainsey he was in the 800 game area i think before he got uh into the playoffs and ended up winning the stanley cup with the pittsburgh penguins you know what you know who else is you know you hate talking about it because it's so tough these guys want to play in the playoffs i feel i feel bad for sam gagne who's only played in his career 11 playoff games. Yeah, that's a tough one. A long one.

He played those games with Philadelphia and Columbus and was last in the playoffs in 2017. Ladislav Schmid just retired, Elliot. He never played in any playoff games either. But I will say one thing. Shame, because that guy was a good guy and he played hard. He did play hard. I always liked Ladislav Schmid a lot.

Listen, I think we're all happy that Sam Reinhardt's going to finally see the playoffs. All these guys were connected to Buffalo. Ristolainen still hasn't played in the playoffs. Gergensens has not played in the playoffs. Another guy who was 400 plus games and is going to get a chance to finally play in the playoffs. And a guy I want to see in the postseason is Johan Larssonarson nick delorier i think was another one of those guys if he can stay healthy

it's he stops having these savage fights with players like nick sealer like the other jack eichel yeah that's what that's the the question was about yeah jack eichel it'd be good to see him in the uh in the playoffs should vegas get there? Do you think Vegas gets there? I don't know. I keep saying I can't see them not, but then I look at Dallas. I don't like the math, but the one thing is, and congratulations to Logan Thompson. I mean, that was a big night for him on Wednesday,

first career shutout. At least you know what they're doing. They're giving themselves a chance. They're taking care of their own business. They probably watched that Edmonton L.A. game the other night, and they're like, ah, oh crap this has to go into overtime like that's what you root for someone win the game don't go into overtime yeah oh matthews just scored his 50th into the empty netter rick five gary lehman dave andrew chuck all have company now uh austin

matthews the first in the NHL this season to hit 50. I'll take seven games of LA and Edmonton. I would too. If we get seven games of that, I'll take that. Thank you very much. I would too. I love Jonathan Quick. I just.

I know you're a big fan. He's one of my man crush guys. Johan Larsen, two man crush guys on this podcast. Johan Larsen, Jonathan Quick. Well, taking us out today, Freed, is a singer and songwriter based in Louisville, Kentucky. In 2015, Otis Jr. spent a few months around the Louisville open mic scene before finding some of his biggest collaborators

like hip-hop and neo-soul producer Dr. Dundiff. Since 2016, the two have connected on four albums and have found a sound that connects with their audience. From their 2017 record, Hemispheres, here's Otis Jr. and Dr. Dundiff with three wins on 32 Thoughts to Podcast, and special shout-out to Mike Russo of The Athletic, who says, when I do these reads at the end, I sound like Casey Kasem. Thanks, Mike.

Keep dreaming. When time came on heavy, beautiful and brutal, Thanks, Mike. Keep dreaming. I'm out. But some cycles always stay the same Something's happening You can feel it when the seasons change Something new is happening But some cycles always stay the Stay the same Stay the same Stay the same Stay the same.

Stay the same. Spring and summer hurry not before they left their lasting mark. I know the change is coming. I can feel its breezes in the dark.