32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Canada vs. USA. Do It, You Cowards!

Episode Date: November 14, 2022

What a weekend in Toronto! Jeff and Elliotte talk about the emotional tribute to Börje Salming (21:40) and the comments made by Auston Matthews post-game. They also get into the latest regarding the World Cup of Hockey (14:40), what we should expect from the GM Meetings this week (10:25), how we’re seeing coaches in new locations thriving (32:25), if Dallas got Jason Robertson for a discount (42:45) and they take your questions (44:40).Plus, they get into the Ottawa Senators (00:30) and what they might do with another injury on their blueline, a tough weekend for Vancouver (6:15), a few quick thoughts on the Jets (29:40), the mood in St. Louis (26:30), why Montreal is fun to watch (38:30) and the New Jersey Devils keep racking up the wins (34:34).GET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailMusic Outro: After Midnite - AlternityListen to the full track hereThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman. Archival support by RJ McCullough.Audio Credits: Bally Sports Midwest, CBS Sports, CJOB, MSG Network, NFL Network, Sportsnet, TNT, WKBW TV and WPEN.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Oh, here we go. I'm back on. Yeah. That was weird. We lost each other. Holy smoke. Okay. Sorry. Do you want me to do that question again? No, I can just answer it again. So. This podcast does not like this question. Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts to Podcast presented by GMC and the new Sierra AT4X. Elliot, we have a lot to get to today and yes, we're going to get to Sorry Lindy, which was just delicious on Saturday night.

But before we get there, a couple of newsy bits. And we'll start off with the Ottawa Senators and the injury to Thomas Chabot hit Saturday afternoon by Travis Konechny. He will be out a minimum one week, according to his head coach, TJ Smith, out with a concussion. We strongly suspect that Ottawa is already looking for a defenseman and now their number one guy is down the number one thing you think of is Shabbat's health you never want to see a player go through that it's a concussion it's something you have to be very careful with and the timelines are never easy no two are the same no person reacts the same you said it Jeff Ottawa's been looking for a D I spent a lot of time on Saturday

calling around about this, trying to figure out what they've kind of looked at. I've heard Dorian's been very, very careful. What's my old line? They don't throw you, when you're drowning in this league, they don't throw you anvils. They don't throw you life preservers. They throw you anvils. throw you anvils they throw so they don't throw you life preservers they throw you anvils i've heard he's been avoiding anvils i think there's moves he absolutely could have made that wouldn't have been great long-term moves and he's just refused to do that he doesn't want to do anything that hurts the team or you know something that people look back for three years and say oh my god i i can't believe you even considered that. So I think he's been careful.

As I mentioned on Saturday night, I've had some teams that tell me that, don't forget also, there's a lot of players, if you don't have a full no trade list, but you have a partial one, a lot of them tend to have the Canadian teams on them. So this isn't just an Ottawa problem. This is a Canada problem.

So the amount of players that you you're looking for the pool is cut a little bit and now they could potentially be looking for more than one so all of this has been a problem for them I think they've been close a couple of times but obviously nothing has happened I'm sure that he was working the phones again on Sunday, trying to see what he could shake loose. The one thing that I do wonder about here is, you know, normally this type of year, a manager will, you know, take his time, you know, don't rush into anything.

It's still the middle of November, but the Ottawa Senators are in last place in their division. And I know the Buffaloes hit their swoon right now. They've lost five games in a row, but there's still a lot of teams ahead of them here to climb over to start even, you know, before you even start to consider a playoff spot. You don't get the playoffs in November, but you can fall out. That's the old saying. Given that reality and given what the expectations were for this Ottawa Senators team and what they're able to do in the offseason, how that should start translating

into more wins and a climb up the ladder of the standings. How much more pressure does this put on Dorian to do something now, to turn things around? I know they beat the Flyers on Saturday, the game where they also lost Thomas Chabot, as you mentioned, but how much is the heat on right now to do something for Dorian? I think he wants to do something. But again, these are the most dangerous moments because these are the times when the pressure's on. You have to be your most careful.

The other thing, too, is, Jeff, my November 1st stat, which is if you're four points out on November 1st, your chances of making the playoffs are not great, unfortunately. Ottawa was one of the teams this year that was four points out on November 1st. So the math is really not their friend. I think the big challenge here is that their underlying numbers are not terrible. Sometimes you have a team that's bad and your record's bad and your underlying numbers are bad the last time i checked in in the middle of last week ottawa's numbers weren't bad they weren't and i think you kind of have to sell yourself on that a little bit you know i I heard the other thing too with DJ Smith was not only did he come out publicly and say

that he wasn't going to make a change, he also apparently said that to the team, that he wasn't going to make a change, that it wasn't what he wanted to do. So I think a lot of the situation here is that in Ottawa, their players, and it's tough too with Norris out, but they have to start playing a lot better.

I think you also reach a point too where you sit there and say, okay, is this the year to make a desperate play? And I think you could make a real big argument now that Ottawa's getting into a place where if they're going to make a move, it's something that shouldn't just be about this year. that Ottawa's getting into a place where if they're going to make a move, it's something that shouldn't just be about this year.

Now, if you're giving up like a fifth rounder to get a player that can help you, that's different. I don't think that's something that is necessarily a bad idea. But if it's something that costs you bigger pieces, I'm not sure you're doing that for a rental now. I don't think it makes any sense. One bright spot Saturday afternoon, aside from the win, a pair of goals by Alex DeBrinckit. DeBrinckit with the left circle, spins free.

Played it back to the middle point. Chabot to the far side. Giroux side of the net, back in front. DeBrinckit scores. And Claude Giroux is going to get another point on this one, I think, as the Ottawa Senators score on the power play. We're going to Giroux, top of the circle, side of the net. He missed that pass, and now they score from a bad angle on the far side.

DeBrickett forces it through. I don't know if they'd bounced off a flyer or Carter Hart himself, but DeBrickett's got his second goal of the game. Watching that, Elliot, did you not say, oh, man, that guy needs those goals in the worst way right now there were a lot of people in ottawa who needed something positive but the w was was was definitely biggest definitely uh tough weekend for the vancouver canucks uh shaded by the maple leaf saturday three to two drop a tough one to boston sunday five to two you talked on saturday about marching towards a certain inevitability here i just don't

know that they can do that with the siddines and roberto luongo going into the hall of fame i think a lot of people had the same thought that i initially did so when we started chatting as we all got online to record the podcast i said to je Jeff and Amal, we might have to be updating this one on Monday morning. And Jeff, you made the great point. I just don't see why Vancouver would, even if they wanted to do anything, why they would do it on the day that Sardines and Luongo go into the Hall of Fame.

I don't think that makes any sense. They play again on Tuesday. You could do that at another time. But I think we all see the direction that this is going. And the other thing is I could really get a sense that everyone around the organization sees it coming this way too. And it's an inevitability. I think the question is when.

And it's an inevitability. I think the question is when I would like to think that if I was playing on it in the NHL on a team where it looked like a coaching change was going to come, that I would still play my heart out. It doesn't matter. Like just because you might be having a coaching change, it's not licensed for you to take your foot off the gas or not play as hard you know your responsibility is to your team and yourself to show pride in the job you do it's just impossible to look at this and think that everybody doesn't see what's going on here and everybody's just

waiting for something to happen i did have to, I really got the impression that some of the players are kind of wondering about, you know, the Horvat situation and where it's going. Like to me, there's a lot of people in and around the Vancouver Canucks just waiting for something to happen. They're not playing together. They had the one game in Ottawa where they stood up for their coach and they won that game the day after Rutherford's last radio interview.

But the thing is, if you're not a good team and you're not playing well, you can do that once, but overall, you're just not good enough to win those games enough. And I see a group here that kind of sees, okay, something's going to happen and we'll just wait to see what it is or when it happens. You don't like the way that they got there uncomfortable for everybody and insulting to the coach. But it does seem like to your point,

this is headed to this space that we've all suspected uh that it would i was surprised there was no meeting as far as we know with the agents for horvat and rutherford while rutherford was in toronto and i was surprised at that jeff and again i say this recognizing that Jim Rutherford's a veteran of this kind of stuff and Pat Morris who represents Horvat is a veteran of this kind of stuff and I think whenever you have people who've been around a long time there's a better chance of cooling down the emotions and and recognizing that this is business first and foremost but it is a little weird to me that there wasn't even if you just go and share a croissant

or a malt a malt there's a hip reference go to the drive-in and share a malt one malt two straws like you know i'm surprised it's weird it's just weird it is weird but it is consistent with everything that we've been hearing which is i you know there's a belief that there hasn't been any contact with these two sides going back to you know when jt miller got his contract done i'm just surprised maybe i shouldn't be but just surprised. Maybe I shouldn't be, but I am. Okay. We shouldn't be surprised that the general manager's meeting in Toronto really doesn't have any hot button issues attached to it.

This is always the GM's meeting that sets up the bigger meeting, which takes place in March. Just a couple of things. They will discuss the coach's challenge. There'll be an update on how the rule changes are going. I would have to imagine that would be on, you know, the ability for officials to rescind major penalties upon video review. There'll be some legal updates as well. I do wonder what the discussion around the disallowed Trevor Zegers Michigan goal is going to be Elliott. Stepping in Klingberg, the shot, and that was blocked by Zuccarello. And he scores! Oh, a little more magic from Trevor Zegers. The lacrosse-style goal.

Zegers picks it off the ice and puts it in the roof of the net. Holy jumping. Back-to-back power plays for the Minnesota Wild the Ducks withstand that couple of near misses and then Zegras and his magic pause and watch him on the left side of the ice he's lurking around right here the puck goes back it's on end right here and he scoops it up on the forehand he says thanks for coming holy jumping every time he touches the, there's a murmur of anticipation. They're challenging this for offside.

Do you have a thought on that one? I don't think it's going to change. When the challenge was brought in, this was a debate they had. I know there were some GMs who felt very strongly, look, if you enter the zone and a team can't get it out in 10 to 15 seconds, that's their fault. And they felt very strongly that, hey, if you can't get the puck out and you give up a goal,

too freaking bad. Pause on that one second. I thought about this a lot. And you know what that'll lead to? What? Video review on did they get it out in the appropriate amount of time well hold on like i'll get there you're not wrong but i'm saying they had there were some gms who said if you can't get the puck out of the zone

in 10 to 15 seconds then you deserve to get scored on that was kind of the feeling but the league i know from the top felt very strongly that it's offside it's offside and they never wanted a situation like it always comes down to this one of the questions that they ask in the in the league is do we want the stanley cup awarded this way and they just didn't want a situation i think where the stanley cup got awarded when a player was offside and then someone says well it was 15 seconds they said nope if it's offside it's offside and that's it and i know that people hated that that goal got disallowed and i'm one of them to be honest i think it's terrible the goal got disallowed and i'm one of them to be honest i think it's terrible the goal got disallowed i do agree with the whole thing that if it's offside it's offside and you know

people say that goal should count that goal should count well you know what would happen if if anaheim won the stanley cup on that goal you know what everybody would be screaming about how can you count that it's offside it's offside which always leads to the one thing that i've always wanted to do elliot as a project is go back and and track all the great goals in the history of the game and review this own entry so whether it's henderson 72 whether it's gretzky to lemieux in 87 whether it's you know nystrom gives the Islanders their first Stanley Cup go back and see which of them were really offside that's an exciting project

I'm a very exciting guy Elliot I'm a very exciting person it's Friday night at 10 o'clock the city's alive everybody's happy what are you doing Merrick I'm doing the zone entries in my basement I'm doing the zone entry on the Pat LaFontaine goal, the Easter epic,

trying to figure out whether it should count or not. Or that they should keep playing for five, six, seven, eight extra periods. That's how exciting I am. Oh my god, that's brutal. What an awful, awful way to spend a weekend. No, no, no. You actually love it. I really do think you love it.

World Cup of Hockey. Okay, so this thing has now been pushed to 2025 in February. The issue is Russia, and as much as the players, Elliot, want best on best, and would probably want the Russian players and Team Russia involved, the situation with Ukraine makes that a non-starter for a number of reasons. But you presented a really interesting idea Saturday on Hockey Night in Canada. Please share your idea. I do think, Jeff, they're going to try of reasons but you presented a really interesting idea saturday on hockey night in canada please share your idea i do think jeff they're going to try to do this again in february 2025 and one of the things i've heard and first of all let me just say this first and foremost as a human being

we want this invasion of ukraine and the war that followed it to be over. Nobody wants that anymore. Nobody wanted it to start with, and nobody wants it anymore. If that is still a factor, there's going to be some pretty deep conversations, and I think there are already, about will they play it without Russia? No Russian team, no Russian players.

Yep, I believe that. They'll have to miss the event. I completely agree with that. They didn't want to do it now, but I do think they're going to want to do that or at least take a long look at it in February 2025 if this hasn't been sorted out. Now, if we get to a place where they can't do it again,

I understand that there was a lot of talk this weekend uh among players because of their age said i guess i don't get to wear the team canada jersey anymore i guess i don't get to wear the team usa jersey anymore and i'm sure that's the same thing is being said in sweden and and the Czech Republic and Slovakia and Russia and anywhere else where this could be a situation. And I think there's a lot of real disappointment. I think this is an extremely unique and unfortunate set of circumstances. I'm not as inclined to trash people about not getting this done.

This is not an unwillingness to do it this is a a serious geopolitical event and the passions that come out of it but i think players are really really upset and unhappy about it so my idea jeff is i would like to see where they take the canada men the usa men the canada women and the usa women and they pick a city they put all four teams there and they do a best two out of three and i don't think you do it at the all-star break i think you do it at the beginning of the season or in september because it's only two possibly three games you don't need a long training camp for each individual country and also maybe get a couple days off of your NHL teams camp on the way back but you can have a short event where you can get the Crosby-McDavid versus Matthews-Kane matchup at least for a few days.

And someone called me on Sunday after seeing it, and they're saying, you know, you could do that everywhere. You could do a Sweden-Finland. You could do a Czech Republic versus Slovakia. You could take all of those teams, and you could have a small two out of three event and you could bring the women's teams as well now maybe what they'll do is they'll just have it without Russia in a year but if it's not possible why not put these in a local city

with the women's teams and at least give one more opportunity to see these players canada usa two out of three i think people would eat it up i think it would sell you know right after the uh the nhlos were shut down going to the olympics there was a real momentum amongst players to get the world cup reignited. And it sounds, correct me if I'm wrong, something like this would once again have to be a player-driven initiative. This would have to be players forcing the issue here with their players' association and with the NHL as well, correct? Yes, it would have to be all of that. I mean, I like it. I mean, I don't know how you wouldn't like it.

This is best on best. This is Eichel, Matthews, Kane, you know, McDavid, McKinnon, Crosby. What's not to like? Now, how did they get there? We'll see. But I love it as an idea. I really, really do. Last year when they announced they weren't going to the Olympics,

I wrote about they should do a World Cup, and there were players saying, we're going to put the pressure on privately, and we hope that the media puts the pressure on publicly because we want this. Do not underestimate how much these players want another chance to do best on best i think it was with jd bunkus but it was matt sundin did an interview last week where he talked about swedish

participation in ice hockey is down and that's why it's a great thing that the sedins and alfredson are going into the hall of fame this year because they need to see that kind of thing among the youth in Sweden? Well, first of all, you know, we can't forget that Sweden is such a small country and I don't think we have more registered hockey players today than we did maybe 30 years back. So for the sport of hockey in Sweden, obviously it's huge to have three more being inducted. You know, we have four with Borja and myself, Forsberg and Niklas Lidström. So have three more Swedes being inducted and three of them at the same year.

That's a fantastic accomplishment for Swedish hockey. You know, Sweden is, I think, less people living in Sweden than in Ontario itself. So it's very important for the next generations of hockey players that we try to recruit into the great sport of hockey.

And one of the Swedish reporters who's in town for the ceremony said to me that they think one of the reasons the interest in hockey is down is the lack of best on best so if i know that now the nhl and the double ihf they have to know that too for sure so i don't see it just as a thing about entertainment to me it's about growth if you have one of the strongest hockey countries in the world in sweden

where their public is saying the lack of best on best is hurting us in terms of local interest it's incumbent on the sport to fix that you have to fix that you know ellie speaking of swedish hockey this was a beautiful weekend uh for borya salming and for not just maple east fans but hockey fans everywhere who saw an outpouring of love and adoration and respect for that player the likes of which the city is of toronto has seldom if ever seen before and it wasn't lost on one of the most important players in toronto right now austin matthew Yeah, I mean, I think that kind of stuff really kind of hits you hard. So I think for us, though, to just see how a guy like Boye was embraced by the fans and just what he did for this organization in his time here

and what he still means to this city. So I think it puts a lot of things into perspective for us as players playing here. So that's Austin Matthews talking about what he witnessed this weekend in Toronto with Boreas Salming. What do you take away from that? We played that Matthews clip at the end of the game. Not the Toronto game, but the Winnipeg-Calgary game at the end of the night. And I was struck by it immediately.

Jeff, early on in this podcast, we talked about Ottawa and the challenge of making trades when Canadian teams are on so many players' no-trade list. That Solming ceremony, which was alternatively both beautiful and heartbreaking, and Matthew's reaction to it really stood out. Because we all talk about in this league, nobody wants to play in Canada,

the taxes, the scrutiny, the media, the cold weather. Last year, the fact that there were stricter COVID rules than in many places in the United States. Name your reason why players would prefer to play in the States and Canada. Pick one, come up with it. That psalming ovation and Matthew's reaction to it, that's why you should want to play in Canada. Because, yes, there are risks.

Yes, there is more aggravation. The risks are high. The aggravation can be high. But you know what else is high? The rewards. Borya Salming played hard in Toronto for 16 years. And his situation was unique too in the sense that he was the first European to come over and really make a huge impact but that isn't what the Toronto fans

were recognizing they were recognizing that he gave them his all for that time and that's the thing. In those cities, if you play hard, you get the rewards. People recognize it's not always going to go well. People recognize that there's going to be years where there's going to be disappointments. But what they recognize is you played hard for them. And for Matthews to say that, I guarantee to you, he was sitting there and saying, wow, this is what these people really think of this longtime Maple Leaf who played 16 of his 17 years for them. That really struck him. And you know my thoughts on Matthews, that I think he's going to resign unless the wheels really go off the car on this one. But I was glad he saw that. We talked earlier about the Canucks going in the Hall of Fame.

So is Alfredson. Those are all players who played all or most in Luongo's case of their career in Canada. None of them ever won a Stanley Cup. They came agonizingly close on occasions. But what they did was every night they went out to play. Every single one of them. Yeah, in the moment you think that maybe the fans don't like you. No, no, no. They love you. They get frustrated, sure, but they're fans.

They get frustrated. That's what I would say to anybody who wanted to play here. If the risks are high, but the rewards are high, and the ovation for Salming was an example of the reward. Like, look at Bieksa going back last week. He's been gone from the Canucks for how long? They haven't forgotten him. And that's the way it should be.

And that's the way Canadian hockey fans are. Listen to the 32 Thoughts Podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. You know, Elliot, Saturday night, as we all expected and predicted, the St. Louis Blues ended Vegas' winning streak at nine. By beating the Golden Knights by a score of three to two,

Jordan Binnington was outstanding, especially in the third, where he made 22 saves, 34 saves overall for Bennington and St. Louis knock off the heavyweight Vegas Golden Knights. And you talk about a team needing a win. Oh yeah. That team needed a win, Elliot, big time. Remember when Ryan O'Reilly

blew out his frustration in Buffalo when he got traded? Yeah, I think our mindset is, you know, we're stuck in this mindset of just, you know, being okay with losing. And, you know, I feel too, I think it's really crept into myself. And over the course of the year, I've, you know, lost myself a lot. And, you know, we're just kind of get through just, you know, just being get through just being okay with just not making a mistake.

And that's not winning hockey at all. And it's crept into all of our games. And it's disappointing. It's sad. I feel throughout the year I've lost the love of the game multiple times. Yeah, of course. I remember that one. This wasn't the same, but it reminded me of that. You know, it's just, yeah.

I feel I'm supposed to lead this team, and I'm not doing nearly enough. I know other guys, too. There's a lot more that needs to be done. I don't have an answer for an hour i just i know what yeah what i'm doing isn't working ryan you you and many of your teammates you know this isn't a player who's didn't strike me as a player was angry at the organization or anything of that but when ryan o'reilly lays his frustration bare he really lays it bare like there there's no hiding how he's feeling first of all losing

stinks and i think he was tired of the losing no question about that but i also kind of wondered with him if it was just a matter of he's sitting there and he's thinking i had something really special here in st louis we won a stanley together. I think in that moment, you're kind of wondering, because you're emotional after a game like that, is this coming to an end? And I think the Blues are a team that everyone kind of knows if you go to Doug Armstrong with an idea, he's going to listen to your idea.

I don't think he's trading like Thomas and Kairou or anything like that. But I mean mean other than that I think if you come to him with an idea He's at least going to think about things Obviously you're right they needed that win That was huge to get that win But when I saw O'Reilly last week

He knew when he said what he said about Buffalo That it was the end there And he wanted it to be the end This one here He doesn't want it to be the end. It's very different. It's not the same at all. But to me, I saw a guy who was like, oh boy, if this doesn't get better, it could be the end,

and that would be really sad for me. So you saw the Jets beat Seattle, Elliot, on Sunday night. First of all, that's two in a row the wrong way for the Seattle Kraken after their little winning streak as well. But your thoughts on the Jets here? It's a big one. Coming off a loss against the Flames.

15 of their last possible 18 points. What a way to go. Blake Wheeler, 300th goal with four seconds left in regulation. A nail biter. And then Shifley wins it. ...over the line, moves right in for Shifley, a shot, he scores! Mark Shifley wins it in overtime tonight.

His team-leading 10th, 2nd of the night, and Winnipeg completes the comeback and splits this back-to-back game. Shifley, by the way, that game against Calgary on Saturday night, that was probably the first game I've watched him this year where I didn't think he was really, really good. And I'm not surprised he came back with a big play to win it a night later. Because I think he's been really really good on most nights this year really really good that calgary winnipeg game was a great game

speaking of a team that needed a win throw calgary in there and i'll tell you what the markstrom windmill glove save on Mark Scheifele. Listen, we've seen some cool old school this week. We saw Peter Kochetkov with a beautiful poke check, old school style. And then we saw a windmill glove save from Jacob Markstrom on Saturday night. Chef kiss. Give me more of that with our goaltenders, Elliot.

How about him tripping Dubois? Right beside the net as he skated by. How about Kelly and Kevin are like, I'm not sure he did that on purpose. I'm like, what are you guys talking about? That was the funniest intermission. I'm like, like oh come on stop we all know what happened here you know very quietly very quietly rick bonus i thought kevin

had a great pack in that game about how rick bonus has instilled the discipline of that third forward high before they lost that game they got 13 of their last 14 possible points they're not as exciting to watch which is a bad thing but they're less exciting to watch which for them is a good thing much much more disciplined and i said this to you on the in the radio the other day and i'm probably to write about it a bit this week, Jeff, but coaches, look at all the guys who got fired who are successful in other places right now. I don't know how people stay married for 50 years. Aren't you planning to? I hope so. Put it this way. I've already told her you can divorce me, but you can't leave the house. That's the rule. Sounds a very healthy relationship. Yeah, very good.

What this all says to me, Jeff, is that if I was a general manager, you'd really have to convince me that if I'm keeping the same core together, more than five years makes any sense. And five years might be pushing it. You know what it does? And you right like you know jim montgomery boston pop vegas golden knights bruce cassidy pop dallas stars peter deborah pop uh lane lambert uh awkward start to this season but pop with the islanders bonus rick bonus winnipeg jets pop like there really is something to this which you know what because I've thought a lot about this since we've talked about it a couple of different times here on the radio show. What this underscores to me is just how excellent a coach John Cooper must be to be able to hang in there. Trots.

Barry Trots is another great one. Just how amazing a coach you must be. Because I always think in these situations, like, what's the trick? And one of the things that I've always been told is a great coach knows when to let someone else do the talking. And I get that that's hard for a coach sometimes. But great coaches are always ones that know when it's time to defer to someone else. Or just let the leaders on your team sort it out. Now, it is easier when you have Victor Hedman and Stephen Stamkos on your team to help sort things out internally.

And I get that. But every time we have that conversation about new voices and popping your team, I always think to John Cooper, who's, you know, the longest serving, you know, head coach in the NHL right now. the longest serving head coach in the NHL right now. And I just wonder, like, what's the secret ingredient here for John Cooper, who still, by the way, has never won a Jack Adams? Yeah, that's crazy. It's wild, man. It really is wild. Okay, Elliot, that was Saturday night, and that was awesome. Now, it wasn't re-sign Lindy.

It was sorry, Lindy, and congratulations, New Jersey Devils fans, for making all of our evenings really creative, well done, and Lindy Ruff himself had a laugh about it afterwards. Your reaction to that? You know what's funny is that they asked the coaches that after the game, and there's not a single coach that heard that, including me. I said, I accept the apology. Someday us and the fans are going to sit down and have a beer

and laugh about that one. There's a cello crowd tonight too. He saw the humor and the value in having humor in that situation i think we're supposed to credit the brat pack that they were the ones who started it they're the ones that started it and well done uh they beat arizona four to two that's nine straight games for the new jersey devils and everything's good again with lindy ruff right because it was looking elliot early like the rope was getting shorter, like maybe one more loss and that might have been it.

Like that's kind of what it felt like, Elliot. I never would have felt that way in a normal situation. Never. But the thing that worried me about the beginning of the year for Ruff in New Jersey was, number one, they got off to a bad start number two what are your ticket sales what's your fan base thinking and those are not metrics that we're always aware of jeff but i always worry you know new jersey it's been a while since they've made

the playoffs they started to spend money and when you don't get results and your fans turn on you quick, that's the kind of situation I worry about. Plus, they have somebody there who could take over right away, right, if they wanted to. All of that added up to me to be a situation that I would be concerned about probably faster than I would be concerned about in some other situations. But credit to the Devils, they were patient. They sorted this out, and they look really good right now.

And it's not only that they're winning, it's the way they're winning. We talked about it in the last podcast. They have two wins this year where the starting goalie's gotten hurt, and the backups come off the bench to save the game for them. And look, they have Akira Schmidt and Nico Dawes as their goaltending tandem for the next little bit. And Schmidt, all he's got to be is good enough. And he was phenomenal to steal that game against Ottawa in overtime,

and he was good enough to beat Arizona on Saturday. That's all you need. Your guy's got to be good enough. But that's the kind of night that people go home, your fans go home really happy because the fans do that cheer and the coach acknowledges it in a good way. And first of all, you should be feeling good about yourself because you've won nine games in a row.

But the other reason you feel good about yourself is because your fans are engaged and your coach is engaged with that. That probably sells you some tickets and some goodwill. You know who else is in a good mood about this New Jersey Devils winning streak? Who's that? You are? Me for the in-season cup, baby.

Right now is we're sitting here recording this at 10 o'clock Eastern on Sunday evening. I've got 13. Bukowskis has 10. You're at nine. Stalled. Hard. Everybody's stalled. And Ambrose has two but ambrose has the ultimate

trump card because she has a gold medal so i can't really say much to her i'm loving the new jersey devils i can't yeah no matter what i say to ambrose it's just like boom she drops the you know euchre's right bauer and i'm out of the conversation. But yeah, in-season cup's awesome, eh? Good idea by you. I love it. By the way, you know who else I think of when I watch Jersey? Is Montreal.

They're not going to make the playoffs, I don't think, but they're playing with a choix de vivre. Thank you very much. J'aime ça. I really like watching them. Well, of course. There's a bunch of really

Exciting young players That are doing dynamic things And you can make the argument that in some games They're punching above their weight but they're succeeding I think they're really fun to watch So we had a pre-game interview With Marty St. Louis where I asked him If there's anything he wanted to see

Them get better at And he really punted on that one He just said it's tough for me to complain too much because they play so hard. See, I love Marty St. Louis interviews. You know why? Zero panic. Not nervous about anything. Let's not forget, he's only been an NHL head coach for about five minutes here,

and you can't tell from any of the interviews. He's so relaxed. He's so relaxed. He's so comfortable. He completely exudes confidence. I'm watching the interview that you did with him on Saturday. I'm like, this guy's been here for like five minutes and he's one of the most confident coaches in the NHL. You know what's really interesting about that, Jeff, is?

So last week, I know you're not a big football guy, but there was a big story in the NFL that had everybody going wild and that was that Jeff Saturday who used to be the starting center for the Indianapolis Colts was hired out of the broadcast booth to be the team's new head coach and it was a crazy story he's got got no big-time coaching experience, none. It's basically the Martin San Luis story in the NHL. Great player who's been coaching their kids, put in charge of men out of nowhere. And Joe Thomas, who's an offensive tackle,

now retired for the Cleveland Browns, he's not in the Hall of Fame. Cleveland Browns. He's not in the Hall of Fame. He will be. He trashed it. When you hire your drinking buddy to be the head coach of an NFL football team, it is one of the most disrespectful things I've ever seen in my entire life. To the commitment, the lifestyle, and the experience that it takes to be an NFL coach, any coach, much less the head coach of the Indianapolis football Colts. You have got to be kidding me that this is something that Jim Ursae and Jeff Saturday, who's not blameless for accepting the job, could have talked and decided

that this was the best thing for the Indianapolis Colts at this juncture of the season. And Bill Cower, who won a Super Bowl as coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers and is in the Hall of Fame, he also trashed it. For an owner to hire a coach who's never been an assistant at the college level or the pro level and overseeing a very much a lot of candidates that are qualified for that job as we see in steve wilkes an opportunity to build a resume it's a disgrace to the coaching profession and regardless how this thing plays out and what did they do they went out and they won on sunday in their first game they're not having a great season but they won their first game. They're not having a great season, but they won their first game. They beat Vegas 25-20.

And I was kind of looking at all this with bemusement. I understand everybody's reaction. It's fine. But I said, we lived this months ago with Marty San Luis, and he immediately breathed life into the Montreal Canadiens. And it doesn't look like a fluke. You're right, Jeff. They punch above their weight, but there's nothing wrong with that.

It's okay. They play hard for this guy. That's why they're fun to watch though. Like they're an underdog, scrappy, young team. Yes. How do you not get behind that? Like it's so easy to like the Montreal Canadiens right now. It's so easy to like the Montreal Canadiens right now. It's so simple. Your goal as a coach in the National Hockey League, the NHL,

is to get guys to play as hard as they can for you. Now, you have to make adjustments. You're a babysitter a lot of the time, but the number one goal is will you be able to get players to play hard? And he does that. Is Jason Robertson underpaid? You want him to have another contract dispute? You know, I think we looked at the contract and said,

well, first of all, the guys deserve, the guy deserves a really big raise. And then contract gets done and it's a four-year deal. The AAV is 7.75 and went woof what a raise that is and now i'm saying maybe uh robertson came in a little light here another great game by not just robertson but that entire line which may be the best line in the nhl right now. Him, Rupe Hins and Joe Pavelski. Robertson now has 10 goals, 13 assists, tied with Rantanen and McKinnon for third

in league scoring. And I'll ask you, is he underpaid already, Elliot? They couldn't pay him anymore. They didn't have the cap room to do it. Eight game point streak for Jason Robertson. Put it this way. I think by the time this deal is over,

Jason Robertson is going to be very happy because he's going to have a lot of money in the bank and the Dallas Stars are going to be very happy because he would have given them every penny's worth. We're back with your phone calls and emails after this. All right, get it before it's gone. Visit the Sportsnet shop to get your 32 Thoughts merchandise.

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The email, 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. We'll jump in with Alec. I have a good idea for a, quote, bad Jeff idea. Oh, no. Worse than watching goals to see if they're offside? No, great goals throughout history. Check the zone entry. We'll go back to 1951.

Bill Barocco scores on Jerry McNeil. No, hold on a second. We're going to video review. Back to Alec. This came to me while watching the World Series and explaining to my sons that MLB players are required to use wood bats instead of aluminum. Make NHL players use wooden sticks even for a game.

What do you think it would be like? Less one-timers, more stick handling. You answer that one. That's better for you. Once upon a time when composite sticks first came in, there were only, I'm trying to be generous here. There weren't that many players that really knew how to use them properly.

And I think part of it was because they were new and part of it was the technology wasn't great. Now composite sticks, obviously everybody can use them and use them effectively but how many times elliot when these things first became popular so we're looking in the early 2000s here all right and you said to yourself because the first thing you notice when you switch to a composite from a wooden stick is it's harder to take hard passes and a lot of passes were flying off blades and we would say to ourselves you know this guy

really shouldn't be using a composite stick like guys like you know matt sundin and daniel alfredson sure like of course like no problem these guys can use composite sticks but a lot of players couldn't and probably should have used wood sticks but everybody stuck with it the technology improved everybody's had these in their hands for long enough they know how to use them so where once upon a time i'd say you know the it's easier to take a pass shots might be you know uh more consistent than with composite sticks because i mean how many times when you had the composite sticks like you see pucks just flying everywhere and you're like he doesn't know where he's, where he's shooting the puck. He's just firing it because the

technology is allowing every player to sizzle the puck. But now everybody knows how to use them. Like there, there's no like, okay, let's go back to wooden sticks so everybody can handle the puck again. There's a couple of things about composite sticks I do want to point out because it's kind of been lost to history. I'm not sure if you remember this, but when composite sticks, I do want to point out because it's kind of been lost to history. I'm not sure if you remember this, but when composite sticks really started to show up and everybody on the teams were grabbing them, what some coaches would do is they would instruct players to go out there and just for one shift, everybody gets a shift, just go out there and make sure that when you're out there, you tap everybody's stick at least once. so you sort of decay it a little bit yeah so if you tap the stick later on in the game

it'll break now there was a lot of shifts where guys like there's that would be out there oh i'm just out here to tap sticks and it happened early in the game and then later on the stick would break those sticks broke a lot and you know now you know sure they still break but you don't really see it as much as you used to to the point where i can remember in the nhl lockout of 0405 elliott um i was working at am640 and we started to do mississauga ice dogs games nsb act did the the play-by-play for us And so I went to see a lot of Ice Dogs games. Greg Gilbert would have been the coach at that point. And I remember that team because of a few things. They had some really dynamic players.

But also what Gilbert did on the penalty kill is nobody was allowed to use a composite stick on the penalty kill. They had this stick rack, and it was just wooden sticks. And it was only for the penalty kill. So all the penalty killers had wooden sticks. I remember I asked Gilbert why and he said, listen, man, these things break too easy. And if my guys are killing a penalty, if someone's stick breaks, it's not a five on four, it's

a five on three. So all my guys are using wooden sticks. I don't know who else did that, but I just remember Greg Gilbert doing that. So just a couple of things about compasses sticks that I just want to remind people of and how quickly the technology has evolved. And now, Elliot, everybody can play with these things. And it's great.

And I used to always, you know, sort of get a little bit pissed off when, you know, a stick would break and you'd always hear the announcer say, oh, these sticks are no good. Like, good like look at it just exploded in his hands meanwhile when like a third line player just absolutely fires a rocket past the goaltender like 95 miles an hour an announcer would never say wow these sticks are awesome did you see how fast he just shot that puck i always felt that that was a little unfair to blast the sticks when they exploded, but

never celebrate them when they allowed everybody on the team to really fire the puck. Your passionate defense of composite sticks is noticed. The manufacturers really thank you, Jeff. So every stick rep that's listening right now, like the P28 pattern. Please send 500 free sticks to Stouffville.

Okay, here's one. You know one thing I would like to see someday? What's that? I would like to see an exhibition game where everybody used older equipment. I'm with you 100%. The only thing that I would worry about is injuries. That's all.

It's tough to do it when you have kids who are trying to make teams or veterans who are trying to make teams. Yeah. But I would at least love to see it. I'm with you. I think that's for like a summer one-off to me just to see. I don't want it anywhere close to a season because they're not used to those

skates and they're not used to those sticks. And the protection that they used to have in the NHL is like, you know, using masking tape and napkins all around your body. There wasn't a whole lot of protection for these guys. From Travis, after watching Gibson, John Gibson, after watching Gibson get lit up by the wild, I'm curious to know who you think is the best goalie with the worst record, i.e. which goalie had the worst defense in front of

them throughout their career. This allows me to give one of my favorite stump speeches because you know who my guy is, Elliot? I think you've heard me talk about him before. Gilles Malache. Actually, that was one of the names I was thinking of, to be perfectly honest. So I've always felt that.

And this is, again, no disrespect to Ken Dryden and Bernie Perrant and Billy Smith and Jerry Chevers. If you look at the teams that won Stanley Cups, okay, throughout the seventies and into the eighties, if Jill Milosz played on one of those teams, instead of playing on the California Seals,

the Cleveland Barons, a bad Minnesota North Stars team, we'd probably be talking about Gilles Malache as one of the best goaltenders ever. But he was just stuck on bad teams. He's the one guy that always stands out to me. And I always get a nice smile inside when I see someone wearing a California Golden Seals jersey and I see 27 Malosh on the back that's one of those like I know it's kind of a hipster thing but it's like okay the reels know like the reels know how good that guy was he just happened to be stuck on really really really bad teams. Like if Milosz played on the Habs instead of Ken Dryden,

or if he played on the Flyers instead of Bernie Perrant, how would we be talking about Joel Milosz now? He'd be more of a household name, and he'd probably be in the Hockey Hall of Fame, Elliot. That's how good that guy was. Yes, I don't disagree. First of all, let me just say this. I think Curtis Joseph should be in the Hall of Fame because I think he made a lot of teams better good that guy was yes i i don't disagree first of all let me just say this i think curtis joseph

should be in the hall of fame because i think he made a lot of teams better yep than they were with how good he was a couple other names i'll give you mika kiprasov yeah you know he went to game seven of a stanley cup final the flames never repeated that but kiprasov was a great goalie i don't know if the teams were bad, but I think that if he had played on better teams, he'd have more attention, the more attention he deserves, and he deserved more of it. Scorpion save.

Always think of the Scorpion with Kiprasov. You know who else is a guy who jumps into my mind is Sean Burke. Wow, that is a great one. Maybe also the toughest goaltender of all time. Oh, yeah. Although there are some that will give him a run for his money. And a great one. Maybe also the toughest goaltender of all time. Oh, yeah. Although there are some that will give him a run for his money. And a great coach. Sean Burke is an awesome one.

Oh, wow. If there's any more that anyone can think of who's listening right now, send them along because I'm curious. But Burke is great and selfish. I always love talking about Joel Malosh. Anyhow, from Travis in Calgary, is there an option where Shane Wright could get traded to a WHL team, for instance, the Seattle Thunderbirds?

Have there been any CHLers who have switched to one of the other leagues? Yes, it has happened. But the first thing that has to happen is you have to get waved through your league completely for that to happen. And I cannot see any scenario where Shane Wright gets waived through the OHL again, and no one puts in a claim. There's about zero chance of that one happening.

Unless it's fixed. Yeah. Unless it's fixed. Unless it's a real cooked one. Uh, there's, you know who that happened to Mike Hoffman. He got waived through one league.

Uh, Mike Hoffman did. Who that happened to? Mike Hoffman. He got waved through one league. Mike Hoffman did. Did Claude Giroux get waved through the OHL to get to the queue to play for Gatineau? Mm-hmm.

I mean, it has happened before. There has been a real pipeline from the Ontario League to specifically the St. John's Seadogs. I think some other maritime teams as well that involve players getting waved through. Interesting question. Really good.

But yeah, the player would have to be waved through the league. And for someone like Shane Wright, no chance. Okay, Elliot, on that, let's get to a voicemail. This is Drew in Edmonton. Hey, boys.

Love the pod. It's Drew from Edmonton. I was just wondering, when there's a coach's challenge and the refs are looking at the ipad and everything is it strictly from the war room or is it a you know combined effort from refs on ice war room or should we like eliminate the rest from that actual call and just have a war room challenge against the rest on the ice?

Just kind of a thought. Thanks boys. Have a good night. Ultimately the final call is with the, with the war room or the situation room as they now prefer to be called. They have more monitors. You know, the officials are looking at an iPad.

They have more monitors. They have more monitors. You know, the officials are looking at an iPad. They have more monitors. They have more angles to look. They'll be on the phone with the officials to ask them what they saw or what they might have ruled on the ice because you have to overturn. But the situation room has the final call. Now, the one place where there is an exception for that is if the referees are reviewing a major penalty, such as high sticking, things like that,

to see if it's a major, a minor, or no penalty, that is the official on ice who can review it. Drew in Edmonton, thanks for the call on that one. We're going to finish up the podcast with this one. Wesley from St. Louis. Thanks to websites like CapFriendly and Puckpedia, NHL fans have been easily able to access the team's cap situations. So my question is, do NHL teams, specifically front offices, use these kinds of sites?

Or do they have their own staff members that are able to help them with the cap, give suggestions on who to call up, send down, trade possibilities with the cap, etc.? Interested to hear who or what teams use to work the cap. Shout out Dominic's Rim of Cap Friendly, who got hired by San Jose this October for inspiring this question. Also, Tom Paraska, Vegas Gold the Knights years ago, got these types of websites are great, you know, audition tapes. And, you know, 24- and, and, you know, 24 seven advertisements for your business acumen to

get absorbed into the NHL ecosystem. Anyhow, NHL teams using cap friendly, Puckpedia, et cetera, Elliot. You know what the weird thing is about that, Jeff, is I have heard that the league is actually not crazy about the cap friendly Puckpedia sites, which I don't get at all.

Why? To me, I've heard they don't like that information being out in the public sphere i think that's nuts to me that adds a whole different layer uh to your fandom that makes your product stickier that adds i would make the argument that adds years on to you as a fan because you have a more intimate knowledge and understanding of how the league works that makes you a fan even deeper than you were before. You don't have to sell this to me like you were selling compass at six, six, 10 minutes ago, Jeff. Any stick reps listing, by the way.

I think everybody feels that way. To me, anything that increases the fans understanding and enjoyment of the game gives them something they can toodle around on to come up with crazy stuff, make weird trades, whatever they want to do i'm all for it but i've heard the leagues aren't league isn't crazy wow which is nuts to me anyway i know the teams have their own databases they would like the only time i think a team would use cap friendly or puckpedia is when they don't want to log on to their own team database or i remember

there was one time i was talking to an AGM about something and we were in person and he opened up his phone. He's like, oh, I better not show you our database. So we went on to one of the sites just to show me something. But they all have their own databases. I'm sure they fiddle around with stuff on there like we all do. But any team that really has a clue what's going on, they've got their own database that is built out to do things

that we don't see. All right, Wesley in St. Louis, thanks so much for that question. That ends the podcast once again. Thanks so much for joining us. Hope your week goes well. Programming note as well, we will have another podcast coming out on Friday, but before that, special podcast, our

sit-down interview with Kelly McCrimmon, general manager of the vegas golden knights look for that one on wednesday uh taking us out today a montreal duo who began writing together in 2018 using samplers tape machines and a different approach to writing born at midnight have gone from post-party sessions to studio sessions over the last couple of years with their latest single here's born Born at Midnight with Alternity on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. I fall by the way Losing time Another fall by the lake Side the Gucci

Weather can I call it? A lick of their man Right so invited Losing time Undecided, obscene Uptight, serene An ultraviolet Alternative Don't fuck with me Obscene, uptight, serene, and ultra-valid Alternity

Don't fuck with me Alternity So codependent and Beyonder Study reading lines for the playwright Scarlet Let her pick deep, you bother Losing Time

Taking place in the hallway Something special