32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Canucks, Islanders and Stuff(ing)

Episode Date: November 26, 2021

Can Vancouver and the New York Islanders bounce back after a tough start to the season? Jeff and Elliotte wonder if we’ll see changes in Vancouver and if so, where that might be (00:01), how the Islanders are managing their roster around COVID protocol (8:00), why the All-Star game in Las Vegas might look a bit different this season to limit the exposure to COVID-19 leading into the Olympics (17:00), the two-year extension of Jared Bednar in Colorado (27:15), hot starts for Alexander Ovechkin (37:30) and Nazem Kadri (31:00), and the guys answer some of your emails and voicemails (45:00).Find the full transcript for this episode hereMusic Outro: North Downs - Dad’s Old TapesListen to their “Dad’s Old Tapes” EP hereThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman. Archival support by Vasilios Michalopoulos.Audio Credits: Rogers TV and Sportsnet.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

Okay, before we get going on today's podcast, I want to take this time on behalf of Elliot and Amel to wish all of our listeners in the United States the happiest of all possible Thanksgivings. And remember, mac and cheese is an important condiment. 32 Thoughts Podcast presented by the all-new GMC AT4 lineup. And Elliot, the slow motion story continues in Vancouver. What's the latest? Someone's going to think that they accidentally turned their podcast to 0.5 sound because you just did that. They're all going to be looking at their devices and saying, what did I do here? But that's what this feels like.

First of all, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I mean, this may end up just being the responsible thing that ownership is doing. If you're going to make a move, take your time and be thorough. We all know what's happened in Chicago and Anaheim and those new hires need to be solid hires and you can't be frivolous and, you know, just say, well, this guy was successful before we're going to hire him without a vetting process. So I'm saying that it's moving slow, but that's not necessarily a pejorative at all. This just may be the proper course of business for this situation. I agree with that. And, you know, one of the things that I do believe that Canucks as an organization at the top are looking at is if we're going to make changes, and I think we all feel that we're headed

in that direction, just make sure that you're doing them properly, that you understand what it is that you are trying to accomplish and where you're going to go here. You and I have both talked about it, that even the people that you think you know, you have to do your due diligence on them right now. And the thing about Vancouver is they've been doing this for about 10 days. It's been about 10 days that they started to look around and say, okay, who are we going to look into and who are possibilities? And so I think they've been doing that to this point

but you know i really thought on wednesday after that pittsburgh game that something was going to happen that night well just in the aftermath of that game okay like first you saw the way they played and demko i thought really bailed them out in the first period, and then Pittsburgh outplayed them. But then you saw the way that Miller came out and talked. Are you, as a group, do you think competing hard enough for one another? You know, it's, oh man, I don't know. I think sometimes we could probably do that a little more consistently, if I'm speaking honestly. When things aren't going well for this stretch amount of time,

it's really, really hard mentally to stay the course and use our process to win games. I always tell you guys, it comes from moving your feet and competing, for me at least. I think when we get everybody to buy in, we're a really hard team to play against. Is everyone buying in right now? The way that Horvat came out and talked.

Obviously, it's getting exhausting coming in here and talking about the same things all the time. I think it's got to come from within. It's got to come from us in the room. And we have to, at the end of the day, we've got to start getting the job done because it's slipping away from us. And the way that Green looked. I don't know if it's necessarily compete level. I think we have some players that probably aren't playing

as good as they can. I think they're trying. They're competing. They're just not getting it done. You just text around and even people I know, like there's one guy who told me, and he's an exec with another team in the league he said to me if travis green gets fired he's going to get a new job and even he was saying to me after a game like that it's almost like it's almost mercy you almost don't want to go back to work and then we see what happens that thomas trance

reports when they're practicing in columbus on thursday miller gets upset about the way a drill is being done so he said to me it's almost like a mercy killing at that point in time just do something and get it over with and i do think the canucks were thinking about it on thursday but again at the end they sat back and they said, hold on. I know our fans are screaming for blood, but we still have to do this properly. And, you know, maybe it's as simple as an extra 24 hours. I don't know. Maybe they're deciding all the changes they're going to make.

But the bottom line to me is they're in the process. It's just a matter of when. So what I think of when you're talking about this, the Travis Green situation is the Ron Wilson situation with the Toronto Maple Leafs and Brian Burke. It's a good comparison. That was a firing just because Brian Burke didn't want to continue to put Ron Wilson into games at the Air Canada Centre where the fire Wilson chance started in warmup and continued through all three periods.

That was like, I can't put this guy through this anymore. That's what this kind of feels like here. And I wonder, because, you know, you're right about those, the press conferences, like thousand yards there, right? Whether it's JT Miller or whether it's all of them, Travis Green, I mean, he's been, I mean, this guy probably hasn't slept in I don't know how long. Coaches have a hard time disguising it. Like coaches, generally coaches' faces don't tell many lies, if at all, and right now, Travis Green's face is incapable of lying.

You know exactly what he's going through and you know exactly what the Vancouver Canucks are going through. But I wonder if the Vancouver Canucks are looking at something like a complete overhaul. Are they looking at, you know, installing, you know, a president of hockey operations? Are they looking at just bringing in an intern? Are they looking at a full-time? Are they looking coaching?

Are they looking someone who's already on the bench? Are they looking external? Or is it just all up for grabs at this point? I think they're looking at all options. You know, they have Bradshaw. If they wanted to go internal behind the bench, they could do that. You know, if they wanted to go interim general manager, they could do Stan Smeal or they could do Ryan Johnson, who's a guy who a lot of people think has a very bright future. But I do think they're also considering going outside. And one of the reasons I think some names are starting to get out there, some rumors are starting to get out there,

is because there are asking about people. And honestly, the most difficult thing on Thursday was trying to separate fact from fiction, like what's real and what isn't. And I think the one that is potentially real is Claude Julian. I think that's a possibility. Now, does that mean that Jim Benning stays? Because they've got a history with them. If they decide to go that route, I don't know that. But I do think he is one of the people that they have at least thought about, does this make sense for us?

And they would get permission from Montreal if they haven't already. Julian's in the final year of his contract. Now that's obviously a huge name that comes with a big ticket. One of the names that was said to me today, one person said, if I were Vancouver, I would look really hard at someone like Trent Cull, who's now coaching with Abbotsford, the Canucks there. It's a good suggestion. Good suggestion.

That guy's real smart and has done a lot of good things already for the Vancouver Canucks organization. Okay, so the Vancouver Canucks this week are Exhibit A, and they're probably going to continue to be Exhibit A for the foreseeable future. Exhibit B on a lot of people's radars right now are the new york islanders and we know all about the road trip to open up the season we know the uh the covid situation that the team is currently going through and we know the team's in last place in the metropolitan but we're all still saying or most people are still saying we still think the islanders will be fine it's a team that has a capability of turning it around quickly going on a long run and getting themselves back into the race but if you look at their immediate schedule it's against teams the metropolitan they still have

you know all the players that they have on on the on their their their covid protocol list as well like if you're lou Lamarillo right now, are you not trying to pull every string and every favor with the league to try to postpone some games here and buy themselves some time? Aside from Vancouver and all the Devils fans who were DMing me about whether or not

they picked up Bastion on waivers. And boy, were they happy that that happened. The number one question i think i've received over the past few days is why are their games not being postponed you know that's the question i seem to get the most they look at what happened with ottawa and ottawa got postponed and the islanders haven't you know the other thing too is san jose had a pretty big outbreak yeah and they weren't postponed but maybe everybody forgets about them because their game started 10 30 at night i don't

have a good answer but the one thing i understand is that the doctors are making these calls and i believe the doctors made the call not the nhl with ottawa in particular and i assume that the doctors are making the calls not the nhL right now with the Islanders. And if you've watched Lamorello's media conferences, especially the one before they played the Rangers on Wednesday night, like he just looked disgusted. And I know if I'm wrong, I'll get a phone call telling me I'm wrong, but he just looked disgusted. I had no discussions with the league today, nor did they with me.

You know, as I said yesterday, these decisions are out of our hands. The league certainly knows the situation we're in medically. And what we do is just get prepared as we always would. And right now, and that's what we're doing, getting prepared for tonight's game. I think he was really upset. And from what I understand, the doctors felt that the Ottawa situation, they lost containment, that they couldn't slow it, and it was out of control, and they had to shut it down.

And I think the Ottawa situation was also a little bit crazier because there were a bunch of false positives too that complicated the whole situation. With the Islanders, all I've been told is they haven't felt it got to Ottawa lack of control levels. Now, I know that's not going to make the Islanders fans happy. And I know that's not going to make the Islanders happy, but that's what I've been

told. See, that makes a lot more sense than what I naively thought, which was that there was a number and that is 10. And if you hit 10, all of a sudden you get postponements. You know, you know, here's the thing, Jeff, like that's what happened with Ottawa, right?

San Jose got seven. Yeah. The Islanders got seven. You know, who knows? Maybe 10 is the number. I don't know, but i can understand if just say for argument's sake i'm not saying it is please don't podcast me or radio me here but let's just say the number was 10 i don't think they'd want that out there i don't think anybody

would necessarily tell me that because then everybody can sit there and start counting for themselves right correct so all i was told was they felt Ottawa lost containment and that was the reason those guys were postponed. Speaking of the Islanders, what did you make of their game Wednesday night against the Rangers with a little bit of old school attached to it? Well, you know, I thought there were a lot of

good games on Wednesday night. I really liked that Columbus Winnipeg game, which had some, well, that had what, like three fines come out of it? Oh yeah, Josh Morrissey with a slash and, you know, Max Domi's going banana sandwich and oh yeah, it was old school hockey. And the Islanders-Rangers I thought was a really

entertaining game. And when the changes happened in New York last year, you know, the Islanders games were at the root of it. The Islanders pushed them around and they backed down from the challenge. The Rangers did. And it's pretty obvious that guys like Lafreniere and Fox, they got that message or they remembered that message.

And those aren't necessarily the guys that you want fighting or anything like that. But like, to me, team togetherness is like, that's a skill, right? Team toughness to me is a skill. And I think that when your best players and Fox is clearly high on their list, when he buys into that kind of thing, first of all, I don't have any question that Fox cares about the Rangers. Like he doesn't need to fight to prove to me cares about the Rangers. But I think what it does is it sends a jolt through your group. And I think it sends a jolt through your group. And I think it sends a jolt through your fan base.

Whoa. You know, look what Adam Fox is doing. Look what our Norris Trophy winner is doing. And I think that kind of thing is contagious. You don't have to do it all the time. No. But when you're one of the first guys to do it, everybody comes in behind you.

Ryan Reeves with two assists in this one. Yeah. Yeah. It was a fun game's a fun game. It really was. You know, you know, what's, you know, what's interesting about it too, LA just as a sidebar here to the Rangers, is this the quietest 15 goals in the NHL, Chris Kreider? Yeah. You know, you mentioned it to me on radio today and I kind of forgot, well, I was eating grapes, you know, I, I kind of forgotten that, that it had happened. And,

you know, I just think that those kinds of players in the NHL right now, those physical freak strong power forward types, especially now with the cross-checking being gone, if you really want to impose your will, it's very, very hard to stop you. I'm going to go back here. That was one of the main points coming out of the 0405 lockout when it was like, okay, there's going to be a crackdown on obstruction. Everyone said, oh, this is going to be great for

all the smaller, speedier players in the game. And I think it was Steve Eisenman that said, hold on a second. No, it's sure it might be, but this is going to be great for the big guys. Like you can't do anything against them now. Like they could impose their will on you before, but at least you could

fight back a little bit now you can't this is a bonanza for those guys and with the clamp down on cross checks all of a sudden chris crider types it's you know lay out the red carpet to the net right this way do what you see fit back to the islanders briefly as we record this they've lost seven games in a row. Yep. Wednesday night, you know, it was points for even Philly with the overtime loss. They pick up a point, but a pair for Columbus, a pair for Pittsburgh, a pair for Washington. I don't know.

Based on history, you don't want to count the Islanders out. Not with that much talent, certainly not with Barry Trotz, but I don't know man like i don't like the math i really don't like the math they got pittsburgh and the rangers in philly coming up next they lose all three of those i really tried to look at the islanders a bit more this week and there's a couple of things that concern me you know number one the identity line statistically it's not having a great year and i think a lot of what they do kind of stems from them and that concerns me for the islanders the second thing is is that and we've talked about this a little bit, their structure always overcame whatever problems they had.

True. That hasn't happened this year. One of the reasons I kind of wonder about is, is their defense finally just a little too old? Is that part of it? You know, Letty and Eberle being gone, like if you were to say who are the most important Islanders and list them, you know, one to 20,

those two guys might not have been right at the top, but those are really important regular season players in particular. They get you to the playoffs. Let me throw one more name in there too. As you mentioned, uh, the defense and the age and the performance. Devon Taves. Yes. Is another one. There's no question about that. I kind of left Taves out, not because he doesn't fit,

but because they were okay without him last year. I think it's fair because I think long-term, you hate to lose a good player like that. I just thought that they were okay without him last year. Maybe if you put Letty and Taves, you're looking at it and saying boy we've lost an awful lot from back there and like i said the other thing too is that trots looks worried and he doesn't often look worried so when he looks worried i think he sees something there that he's concerned about and plus you're in the middle of this, so who knows what that's all going to mean, right?

Absolutely. You're right this week in 32 Thoughts, the blog at sportscent.ca about the olympics and there's a couple of things here one and we've discussed this the uh potential for boycotts either diplomatic or athletic and we may see both we may see none we may see one we don't know and covid as well you want to talk about stories that aren't going anywhere this is a huge one what is the uh the very latest what do you hear what do you know well i think there's now two parts to this story and the biggest thing i think that's changed and when it comes to covid in the last couple of weeks the biggest thing i think that's changed over the last two weeks jeff is that the teams are starting to complain from what i hear

last summer at the media conference before game one of the Stanley Cup final, Bettman made it very clear he didn't like it from the league's point of view and so did Bill Daly, but they said we made a promise and we're going to try to keep it. But you could tell they were just plugging their noses and like whatever. And the players were saying, you know, this means it's important to us and I think the players still feel that way now i think what the teams are starting to say is wait wait wait wait wait what happens if one of our players test positive at the olympics what does that mean now i've heard it could be three weeks okay and for staff who go over i think that's the case potentially too and i mentioned that last saturday on our 32 thoughts during the show

on hockey night and someone said to me look at the what's called the athlete playbook and it's published the ioc puts it out on their website and they said right now it's generic however like there's still a final decision that has to be made. And people have kind of been warned about the possibility of three weeks. So like teams are like, really, you know, like, what does that mean?

Where do they have to serve the quarantine? And say you have a player who's like worst case scenario, they test positive in the semifinals. That's right before you're supposed to come back and resume the season. Like, what does all this mean and i think the teams are really starting to grumble about this and you know just the the situation with the boycott i was talking to one non-hockey olympic athlete somebody who's

who's going to be going to beijing and they said to me that you know now that since the reports first started came out you know you're you're weighing it in your head and you know part of you is thinking we should boycott because it's the right thing to do but part of you is thinking this could be your only opportunity and you've worked your whole life for this and yes i think to some people that will sound terribly selfish but I think until you've walked in that person's shoes and gone through the last four years trying to qualify for this, I think you have a better understanding of why people might be torn that way.

So, you know, I was talking about this with, with an agent and, you know, I said to him, your client, cause you know, he's got a client who's going to go. I said, you know, you better be prepared to answer that question.'s got a client who's going to go, I said, you better be prepared to answer that question because you know it's going to get asked. I had a similar conversation with someone who's going who said, essentially, I'm really conflicted here and I'm disappointed in myself because I have this conflict that I'm even thinking about looking the other way, but I've worked my whole life for this.

You know, we always talk about what your heart feels and your head knows, and that conflict plays itself out in sports all the time. Yeah. And this is the same thing. Like this is, your head is going to tell you one thing, what's the right thing to do? And your heart's going to tell you another thing. It's going to be so another thing it's gonna be so hard for athletes here yeah and again people are gonna listen to you and me say this and they're gonna

say what a selfish attitude or what a selfish thing for you and me to say but no i'm just so you understand what someone has gone through to qualify for this or compete for this you don't understand the thoughts that are going through their head. I get it. I do get it. I think it's human to be conflicted about it. Yeah. Ultimately, this is before you make a decision. But all I'm saying is I understand and sympathize with the conflict that athletes are having.

It's easy when you've got nothing to lose, right? We're talking from the back seat. We have no hands on the wheel. We're telling the driver how to drive here 100%. The the other thing that you write about too which is you know from the nhl's point of view you know before they even go to beijing is the uh the situation in vegas yeah before that which is fraught with potential disaster well one of the things i've been told is that um the quarantines that are being asked for are going to be really strict for Vegas. And by the way, we're watching the NFL games going on while we're taping this.

I have Greg Zurlein as my fantasy kicker. And it looks like he just sent Vegas Dallas into overtime. And, you know, Zurlein's had a rough day. He's missed an extra point in the field goal. But I also have Derek Carr. So I want both teams to keep scoring, put it that way. Nice.

So I think the players association is asking for some pretty strict protocols at the all-star weekend, but it's so tough. Like, first of all, one of the things they're talking about, and it's been reported in several places is they're going to try to do an outdoor event on the strip for the skills competition.

Right? Correct. Yes. is they're going to try to do an outdoor event on the strip for the skills competition, right? Correct, yes. I believe that the hope is that that's going to involve the Bellagio Fountain. I choose to refer to it as the Ovechkin Fountain, but okay. That's fine, the Ovechkin Fountain. That's pretty good. So, you know, first of all,

I know we're generally not as worried about outside situations as they are inside situations. First of all, Gary Lawless, one of our favorite people in the league and a real listener of this podcast, he gets really annoyed when people slander Vegas because he's going to say, what about Nashville? Or what about Montreal? Or I say, yes, there's a lot of places in the league you can go out and get fun and it could be trouble, but this is Vegas and you almost can't control Vegas because there's so many people and everybody's

milling around and there's people everywhere, especially on the strip or in your hotel lobby. It's a real challenge. And, you know, I think that that's one of the situations that everybody kind of looks at and says, are we taking a big chance here on All-Star weekend? I'm sure the players, like I can't blame them. I'm sure the players are looking forward to going to Vegas and having a great time before they go to the Olympics. I'm sure the media who are going to Vegas

are looking forward to having a great time in Vegas. I just think it's a big challenge. You write in 32 Thoughts about Quentin Byfield and crossing the fingers that he can recover in time to go to the World Juniors. And you mentioned that you're watching football right now. And here's a peek into my life. As you're watching the NFL,

I'm watching the Peterborough Peets and North Bay Battalion play. You are dedicated to the cause. I will tell you that. And here's why I bring it up because Mason McTavish just scored. Into the slot for Avon on his knees knees, shoots, loose puck, he scores! Welcome back, back!

Mason McTavish gives the Peets a 1-0 lead. It's not very often you see a standing ovation here for a regular season goal, but the fans were on their feet after that one as McTavish scores. Just recently sent back from the Anaheim Ducks, plays his nine games, again, sent back to Peterborough. We mentioned last podcast, he's on the move somewhere. He'll be, you know, he'll be in London or Barrie or Sioux

or Oshawa by the time OHL trade deadline rolls around. You write about Byfield, and I know that Hockey Canada's got their fingers crossed, but it's not looking good for Ege in your estimation. I just heard that the timeline isn't great. Like that, like he just started skating. I think the other thing too is, and this is just me and you talking. Do you remember when Spezza reached a point where I think he could have gone for the fourth time and he just said, you know what? It's not for me. I've done it three times already. Yeah. Byfield's been twice, right?

Yeah. If he plays, what do you think it's better for him is to play AHL pro or to go back to the world juniors? I'm the wrong guy. After I wrote that that today this is what someone called and asked me I'm the wrong guy to ask because for me it's if you have eligibility you know not as an overager go play junior but I do understand from a player's point of view like in your mind in your own mind when you check out a junior hockey it's tough to back. Like when you're checked out and you're playing pro, you're with a pro team, NHL, AHL, I get it. It is hard to go back. I don't know Quentin Byfield personally, so I don't know where his head would be at on it and what he would want. Right.

I'm just saying someone called me today and raised that point. No, it's a legitimate point. And that leads me to the next person I'm going to mention here which i think is an interesting one as well and ultimately i think he does go what do you think about cole perfetti like does winnipeg let him go my gut says yes but i again like quentin byfield if he was healthy i don't know i don't know you can be sure i mean mason mctavish is going yeah like mason McTavish gets sent from Anaheim to Peterborough. All of a sudden, you know, they're popping champagne bottles, not just in

Peterborough, but in Calgary headquarters of hockey Canada, because all of a sudden their world junior program just got a shot in the arm. And I wonder about Cole Perfetti. I'm sure they would love to have Quentin Byfield there as well. By the way, I just got a funny text by the way. Okay. Shoot. Someone just texted me and said, I want to talk to you about something you wrote and i said i'm just

taping the podcast the next test i got back from him was better be a good guest and merrick i wrote no it's just merrick and i talking i'm waiting for the response that's awesome who was it yeah that's not happening okay do the guessing game see if you can do the elliot friedman guessing game it's the most annoying game in the world it's terrible i agree jared bednar extension yeah two years of colorado uh as you're right somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.25 million dollars um what does this tell us about where the Avs are at with their team? Here's why. Let me just frame it this way. The Colorado Avalanche have a

hurdle and it's called the second round. They're having a hard time getting past it. I know everyone likes to hit the maple leaves pinata with a sharp stick about the first round because candy always falls out. It's fertile ground. I get it. And they do the same thing about the Avalanche but with the second round. And there's no same thing about the avalanche, but with the second round.

And there's no denying Jared Bednar is a real good coach, but if you're not committed to him, some teams might just take a wait and see approach. Like, let's see how far he gets us this season. And then we'll make a decision on an extension or not. What does the fact that he got the extension two years at two and a quarter tell you about where the abs are at with him coaching this team? Well, I think they really like him because when they got off to a bad start,

remember they were a little bit rocky and there were some rumblings, is Bednar in trouble? Because he was in the last year of his deal. And I made a couple of calls and someone said to me who I really trust, if you go on air with Jared Bednar's in trouble, you are going to look like an idiot. And I said, even more than I

normally do. And he laughed and said, yes, even more than you normally do. And that was obviously proven right. Now, it's an interesting contract, two times 2.25. Travis Green, for example, just did a two-year extension, which was a little higher. I think he's around 2.25. Travis Green, for example, just did a two-year extension, which was a little higher. I think he's around 2.8. After it was announced, I heard they were kind of going back and forth for a little bit. But the one thing I really believe is that the Avalanche really like him. They're invested in him. They think that if they were to fire him, the vast likelihood is that they would not get as good a coach. You know, he talked in the blog about, you know, just changing the way they played and

crediting his players for buying into understanding they had to change the way they play. You know, I had a couple of people reach out to me about that from a statistical point of view, saying that he's not lying to you. It's very obvious that he came in with a philosophy and after that first year which was a total disaster that he said to them we have to play a certain way and those guys did buy in and if and you remember from our interviews with Nathan McKinnon and Kael McCarr that you know those players believe it's mental yeah I think so as well I think um coming out of those first two games,

obviously, maybe in the second game there, we might have got outplayed a little bit at certain points, but we were still playing to our identity. And I think to touch on the thing that Nate said about the aggressiveness and aggression and playing to your identity, for us, I think it just got us off of that. Vegas started chipping pucks behind us as a D-core

and we weren't doing our job well enough, I guess. And for us in that series, we us off of that vegas started like chipping pucks behind us as a decor and we weren't doing our job well enough i guess and for us in that series we just kind of need to stay patient we got on our heels a little bit um just because they were coming at us so fast with the transition game but like nate said too it's a learning curve and that's kind of one of the things that i'll definitely take into next year they believe they lost to the golden knights because they fell apart mentally. And Bednar agrees with that. I talked with him about that. And he said that he agrees.

He says that they understand how we need to play and they understand what we have to do to win. They got onto a roller coaster and they kept on going down and they couldn't get back up. And that's an organization that believes it's going to win. Will it win? I like their chances, but there's no guarantees. But I think they really believe in the way they're going.

So the other headline around the Avalanche this week was Nazem Kadri, who really got on the radar for a lot of people. 21 points in 10 games, which is spectacular. The Avs are rolling. They're doing it without Nathan McKinnon. Right now, you know, we talked on the radio about UFA forwards that are on the horizon, whether it's Philip Forsberg,

we'll see what Nashville does there. Whether it's Johnny Goudreau, we'll see what Calgary does there. This is a UFA year. This is a free agent year for Nazem Khadri, who's doing himself a world of good right now and that line with uh Valeria Nachushkin and Andrej Barakovsky is just next level for the week and we'll see what happens when Nathan McKinnon comes back and you know Nazem Kadri will you know

go down the food chain a little bit but do you have a thought on where Kadri's at right now he's in a great place first of all like you know the avalanche when it comes to contract negotiations tough to get a crack on no doubt i'm going to try but tough to get a crack on you know the one thing about colorado i do know is that when they look at their situation and they always look at the mckinnon number yeah that's the number one thing. One time that Sackick did talk to me about some of the negotiations they do, he said that the McKinnon number and whatever that's going to be looms large over everything that they talk about. So that's basically what it comes down to is you know that everything that you're going

to try to do has to work around what mckinnon's next number is going to be now the difference i think with a lot of their other situations is they've answered the bell or the questions on what that's going to be they know now that ranton is 925 for three more seasons they know now that landis gog is 7 million for three more seasons they know now that Landeskog is $7 million for three more seasons. They know now that Makar is $9 million for five more seasons, right? They know Gerrard. That's a great deal. They've got him assigned $5 million for a few more seasons. Like a lot of those situations are now tied up,

but everything still has to work around McKinnon's number. The other thing too is this is Caudry's last big deal. I love Caudry as a player. We all know what the big question is. Can he keep his calm in the playoffs? But he's a center. The kind of attitude he has in the sports, as long as he contains that 10 out of 10 explosion,

it's what everyone wants and everyone is chasing for. He's in a great, great great place buffalo goaltending we've talked about developing teams and we talked about helping young players on teams before and young players aren't helped and buffalo has a lot of young players on their roster when they're out of the game by the end of the first or early in the second. You're out of the playoff hunt by early December. Your goalie can put you there if you don't have good goaltending. Right now, it's a challenging situation with Craig Anderson, who was giving the Buffalo Sabres.

We've talked about Anderson before, but you really got to hand it to Craig Anderson and what he gave the Buffalo Sabres before he got hurt. There's no indication that we know anything about if slash when he's coming back. Well, the problem is he's not skating, right? Well, that's it. So you don't know. And I will say after I wrote it today, there were some people who definitely reached out to say that Buffalo's looking, they're looking for a goaltending.

That's it. You mean you need a goaltender who's going to keep the team in game so the kids can feel what three real NHL periods feel like for as long as you can keep going until it just feels like, okay, this is a wasted season and now we're off to the NHL draft. market is tough right now. I know Dallas has excess goaltenders. That might be an obvious one. You and I on radio this week talked about someone like Jake Allen, who just came back on Wednesday night to face off, unfortunately for him, against the Washington Capitals and Alexander Ovechkin doing his best Adam Oates impression. Dish, dish, dish, dish, dish. What do you see Buffalo doing here now in a tough market to find a goaltender? Like Ottawa, I think could be an interesting one. You know, first of all, I don't think Buffalo is going to do Matt Murray, but one of Ottawa's other goalies, could that be something that they consider considering they have some young ones?

Anton Forsberg, you thinking? Yeah, like Forsberg is a guy. Like I think ideally you want to get something better than you have and it also depends on what the acquisition cost is you know what like the total wild card to me and again like I don't want to be podcasted or radioed here but the total wild card to me is a guy like Giorgia from the Rangers because his name has kind of been out there before but the thing is I'm looking at it with the Rangers. Like you're a playoff team right now, right?

Are you really in a position where you want to do that? No, you're not. But you know what someone told me this week? The interesting thing about, and this speaks more to Shcherkin than it does Georgiev. I was talking to someone about how great I thought Shcherkin's playing this season, considering how many chances the Rangers give up. And you see it game in and game out. They bleed chances.

Yes, they do. And yet they're fine. Like Shosturkin's still giving them 931 save percentage and high danger chances, like making all those big saves. They're fine as long as it's Shosturkin. It's the same team playing in front of Georgiev and he's at an 858. Yeah. Right now. So like, A he's at an 8.58 right now. So A, it speaks great about Shcherkin, that the Rangers can play this way.

We talk about great goaltenders erasing your mistakes. Exhibit A, Igor Shcherkin, who if you voted right now to me, and Markstrom, you can make a great case for Campbell. You can make a great case for as well. Shcherkin's a guy for Vesna. I'm a big fan of Markstrom, you can make a great case for. Campbell, you can make a great case for as well. Shusterkin's a guy for Vesna. I'm a big fan of Markstrom. I think he's doing really well. The only thing that's interesting is when it comes to the Vesna,

one of the things that I look at is how is the backups numbers? Yeah, I agree with that. That's a great way of saying it. If the backups numbers are similar or real good, then a lot of it has to do with the team. And that's a situation in Calgary, not so much with the New York Rangers at all. And that speaks to Shushturkin. It's a great point.

I have to say, and you talk about Vladar. Yeah. How he's been in Calgary this year, that's a godsend for them because now you don't have to play Markstrom all the time. And listen, the Markstrom thing we've known, hey, he's not going to do back-to-backs. That goes back to the Vancouver days where it was, you know, that wasn't going to happen. A couple more things really quick before we get to some emails and a phone call, if we

can squeeze it in. You ever thought on Ovechkin? Oh my goodness. Because I'll tell you, we just talk about, oh, it's the goals, the one-timer from the OV spot. He's doing everything but that this year, and he's having a career year in his grandfather NHL days, Elliot. I just think the amazing thing about it is that everyone's talking about Drysaddle and McDavid,

and those guys deserve all the attention that they get. But Ovechkin, he's having a hard trophy season, and it's completely unusual for the way he plays. Like he's got 18 assists already. He had 18 all of last year. He had 19 the year before. He's on pace for, you know, 72 this year. He's never had more than 59. He's on route for a career high on wrist shot goals by 10, a career low on slap shot goals. I mean, basically he's completely rewired himself to do what his team needs him to do. He's 36. Just think about everything he's done here. You know, there were people I knew that were worried

about Washington before the season. They were down on the Capitals. They were like, the team's too old. They're too thin. They don't have enough prospects. Kuznetsov is killing them. Stuff like that. Backstrom's injured.

They're screwed. First of all, Kuznetsov's playing great. He's found himself again. But I think Ovechkin's at the forefront of this like he's doing what he needs to do to win and he's doing things that are unheard of for him yeah to win i mean all the credit in the world to the guy it's weird but 36 years old 9.5 million dollars and the contract's a bargain for a 36 year old noold. No, no, no. Let me say this about Alexander Ovechkin. Oh, I know. Listen, for what he did to the franchise, all the money.

You know, they can't pay him enough. I agree. For what he's done for them. They could pay him $11 billion, and it still wouldn't be enough for everything he's done for them. One more thing here before we get to some emails. I love John Garrett. This is going to some emails. I love John Garrett. This is going to be good.

I love John Garrett. So in the dying moments of the Vancouver Pittsburgh game on Wednesday night, John Garrett having a conversation with John Shorthouse. This is after a goalie pull and an icing. John Garrett says, throws this idea out there. Now, you, you know, the idea that I've been trump this idea out there. Now, you know the idea that I've been trumpeting here, trying to get on the penalty kill. If you score a goal shorthanded, your player comes out of the box. That's a real penalty kill. Right now, we don't have penalty

kills. We just endure penalties. You just endure two minutes, then he's free. You didn't kill it. You just serve the penance. You serve the two-minute suspension, and then he's free. You didn't kill it. You just serve the penance. You serve the two-minute suspension, and then he's out. My idea is if you score, that player comes out. It's a kill. It's a dramatic moment, and it's an extreme moment.

And I want to get to that in a second. I actually have to say I like that idea. You know what? You know who would do it up great? Vegas. Their team scores a shorthanded goal. I could see Vegas. They drop the lights, spotlight on the guy in the box, great Vegas like their their team scores a shorthanded goal I could see Vegas like they

drop the lights spotlight on the guy in the box and the guy that scored they all celebrate maybe it's you know the player that scored the goal is the only one who's allowed to open the gate to let the player out like it's a Vegas would do something like that like Vegas hang on Vegas would do that Vegas would do that Jeff you, you know what? You know what? You have to be taught. Understand to take the win. No, no, no. You don't have to take the win and then just pile drive your opponent three times after the three count.

No, more. No, no, no. How do we do it? Volume, volume, volume. I don't want to just win. I want to win by more. So here's what John Garrett floated out there with John Shorthouse. Let me know what you think about this one. This is after the Canucks had pulled Demko and it was an icing.

So Demko went back in on the face off in Vancouver zone. He said, there's one of the rules you'd think, okay, to be creative. The NHL would say, okay, icing call.

You can't put your goalie back in. That would be interesting. You're right, because you're not allowed to make substitutions. Yeah, that's right. That's a good point. I had never thought of that. Well, now you have. And here's why I like it.

I think that sports, and for the purposes of this podcast, we'll just use hockey, obviously. If someone was foolish enough to hire me to do something with the rule book or gameplay in the NHL, what I would try to do is I would say to myself, okay, how can I take this rules package and create extreme moments, moments where there is huge gravity, strong emotions, huge repercussions for failure, great moments for excellence. How can I create these moments within the game? And I think that would do it. When have you ever seen a face-off? Just think about this. When have you ever seen a face-off with as much gravity attached to it or as much you know an extreme face-off essentially as an extreme face-off as one where you know that if you lose the other team has a shot on an empty net in your zone yeah i don't like it the drama would be amazing elliot and you would love it. You know that. No, I wouldn't. You know, I have to tell you,

your first idea was great because I think about this, would I want this in a Stanley Cup game seven? That's kind of the way I look at everything, right? So if you're in game seven of a Stanley Cup final and say it's 2-2 and you take a penalty and you score and your penalty's over,

I think that's a huge moment and it's a big play in a championship game. I think if you're down 3-2 and you pull your goalie and you ice the puck and they get a free shot, I wouldn't want to see that in game seven of a Stanley Cup final. But it would just be an insurance goal. It wouldn't be the game winner. It doesn't matter if it's an insurance goal. It takes away a chance for someone else to win.

It incentivizes them not to pull their goalie in some ways. That is't be the game winner. It doesn't matter it's an insurance goal. It takes away a chance for someone else to win. It incentivizes them not to pull their goalie in some ways. That is part of it, yes. No, I don't want that. I don't want the Stanley Cup decided like that. I don't.

This goes back to my original point. Force you into making an extreme decision. No, I have ruled your first idea is great. This one's stupid. You know who's going

to decide on this one? Who, John Garrett? Well, Twitter. But, I mean, I think John likes it. He's the one that threw it out there. But thank you, Cheech. It's A, something for me to chew on. He puts a ketchup on everything. You can't take his ketchup. I love Cheech. I'll take Cheech all day.

Okay, let's get to some emails. Here we go, Elliot. And we should remind you as well. The email address, 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. The thought line, call and leave your thoughts, your questions, your comments, your statements. 1-833-311-3232. Again, 1-833-311-3232. Our first email comes to us from Brian in Edmonton.

I have a few questions about modified no-trade clauses. For some context, I was having a discussion about the oldest trading, Koskinen, and brought up his modified no-trade. Is there a specific date when players are required to submit their no trade or trade lists or is it entirely dependent on the team to ask for it no it's your responsibility to get it in right the famous story is patrick bergland right yeah didn't get in on time and that allowed him to be included in the Ryan O'Reilly trade. Yep. Now, I do know of one situation where a prominent player on a team

forgot to get his no trade list in and didn't realize it until next season. And the team just said, you're lucky. We're not in any indication or desire to trade you. Here's another one. Let's personalize this. Okay. Again from Brian. Has an agent ever reached out to you for information

that could help him put together a no-trade list for a client? Yes. My feeling on that is I would never say anything privately that I wouldn't say publicly. Okay. It's the way I look at it. From Alex. You mentioned Ho-Sang briefly on today's November 22nd podcast.

I believe he's only on an AHL contract. Could any team swoop in at any time and sign him to an NHL deal, stealing him away from Toronto? Would an agent warn Toronto if that was possible to give them a chance to sign him before a team X were to do so? Or if that was going to happen, would Toronto just shrug it off and say, OK, go? That from Alex. Well, anybody can sign him to an NHL contract.

Hang on. He would have to also clear waivers if that team was going to call him up, correct? Like if you're going to sign him and put him on the NHL, he's got to clear. Right. if that team was going to call him up, correct? Like if you're going to sign him and put him on the NHL, he's got to clear. Right. So you sign him and then he clears waivers and then he can go wherever he wants to go. The famous one a few years ago was Kyle Wellwood. And this was in 2011.

He was signed. He was playing overseas. He signed with St. Louis. And when they put him on waivers, San Jose claimed him. Something similar happened to Marek Svatos, the late Marek Svatos, when he signed with St. Louis and they had to place them on waivers to start the season. It was claimed by Nashville. So it happened to the Blues twice, right?

Correct. All right. Good question though. I mean, that was one of the things that people were wondering about after they all saw the Josh Hosang highlight a couple of Saturdays ago. So this one, Elliot, comes to us from Miko. Miko, I apologize, but I am going to read your question here, but we're not going to fully answer it until the next one because Elliot and I need to put on our thinking toques

and actually dedicate some brain cells to this one. But here's the question, and maybe people can tweet in who they think would be good answers and do our homework for us for each. Now that we've had quite a gap since the last time we had NHL players in the Olympics, I'd love to hear you guys name some players you think kind of hit their prime during that time, therefore probably missing their shot to represent their country in the games. For me, it's two, and it's just top of my head, and I have to think about it more, and ditto for Fridge, Mark Giordano and Taylor Hall.

Those would be the two that come to mind right away, and I know for a fact I'm missing a ton, but those would be it. But Mikko and Finland, hold on to that one. We'll give you a more thorough answer on the next podcast. That's a good, that's a really good, that's really good. But those are good nominations by you. Giordano and Hall? Yeah, those are. Yeah. Listen, I'm sure there's one that I'm missing that's so obvious. Trust me. Okay, Zach from London. Do you think that if Mangiapane keeps up his pace, maybe not at this rate, but close to this rate, does he make Team Canada? That from Zach in London. Do you think that if Mangiapane keeps up his pace, maybe not at this rate, but close to this rate, does he make Team Canada?

That from Zach in London. Oh, I think that there's a decent chance he makes it. You know, the other thing too is, you also need guys who will be reserves, right? Like players who might not be one of your top 12, 13 forwards, but you want them there because they're good players and they're not going to cause you any trouble because they're not going to be necessarily starters if he's a bubble guy do you take manjapani because he's low maintenance

and you know he's not going to cause you any trouble elliot we're going to conclude with uh someone from the oh by the way before we do the thought line yeah i wanted to tell you that uh there's a new book I'm reading, and I think you'd be interested in it, and I think Amal would be interested in it. Is it the history of roller hockey international? No. Oh, okay.

It's called Tinderbox. Okay. Now, Tinderbox is written by James Andrew Miller. It's about a dating app? No, it's not about that, because why would you and i be interested in dating apps our wives should be in on dating apps not the two of us but it's hbo's ruthless pursuit of new frontiers now james andrew miller is a writer and podcaster he wrote the espn book he

wrote the big saturday night live oral history and he's done podcasts on uh curb your enthusiasm and he did a podcast now i was never big in sex in the city i took my wife to their movies because you know at that time i i don't think we were married and i was still trying to impress her but he did a sex in the city podcast that was incredible like just the stories especially some of the fighting between the cast i would recommend it. So he's got a new book out, Tinderbox, HBO's Ruthless Pursuit of New Frontiers. And I love books about television and the inner workings of television and media. It's massive.

Like the thing is gigantic and I'm going to be starting it tonight after we're done this podcast. All right. Well, keep us up to date then. The, uh, the Elliott Friedman non-hockey book club. That's what this one's all about. Cause I'm, uh, I'm, listen, you know what I just started? Brian McFarlane's book. Like we talked about last podcast.

Yeah. You mentioned that the other day. I can't, I'm going to have him on the radio show. I see him around town, right? We both live in Stouffville. I see Brian around town. Yeah. Just a delightful guy.

And so that's, so you're reading that and I'm reading Brian McFarlane's autobiography. So that's where we're at for books. Okay, let's get to the thought line. A quickie here about things we collect. Hit it, Amal. Hey guys, big fan of the work you guys do covering

this great game. Keep it up. Being around the game for as long as you two have, I'm sure you've been able to collect some pretty cool hockey memorabilia over the years. So I'm curious, what is your most

treasured piece of hockey memorabilia that you have and what's the story behind it? Thanks for your time, guys. What's your... I don't really have any. I'm not a collector

of memorabilia. I'm not. Like, honestly, the only thing that I really collect, I collect books. Yeah, I do too. The rarest hockey books that I have are probably Anatoly Tarasov's Road to Olympus,

which is a treasure. And I read it again last year. I remember talking to Mike Sullivan about it when we, or it must've been two years ago when we talked to Mike Sullivan, we ended up talking about Winston Churchill and Anatoly Tarasov off air. And it was fascinating. I think he had read the book too. And they call me Gump, the autobiography of Gump Worsley. But I don't really, I mean, Ryan O'Reilly gave me one of his hockey sticks with the freakish curve on it.

So when, you know, buddies come over, I'm like, hey, you want to see Ryan O'Reilly's stick? Check this out. I'm like, hey, you want to see Ryan O'Reilly's stick? Check this out. I feel like a 1974 NHL Players Association, Pete Mahavlich lunchbox. But I don't know if that's something I'm going to waver out of parties.

I remember going, you know what? I'll tell you what. I remember going to Bill Waters' place in Orillia. Bill, you know, former assistant general manager with the Leafs, longtime agent, broadcaster, bon vivant, man about town, wonderful guy. I remember going to his place

and the first thing he did, he goes, I want to show you something. And he took me downstairs and he's got a lot of, you know, Bobby Orr stuff because, you know, help represent Bobby Orr with Alan Eagleson. And I walked downstairs and there was, and the only other one I've seen of this, Elliot,

is at the Hockey Hall of Fame, the Bobby Orr or pinball machine where there's the big mistake on it which is they have bobby or as a right hand shot when he was of course as we all know a left hand shot um but see bill would collect things like that you know from international tournaments he grabbed like a jersey from someone on you know from czechoslovakia or from Sweden, and that would be in there. But I don't really have anything that can compare with that because I've never, to be honest with you, I've never really collected anything. I'm like you. I'm interested in books. I have a lot of books, but I collect all my press passes.

Like whenever I cover an event and I get a credential, I keep those. One of the things I was thinking while you were talking because i wanted to give our caller a good answer is that well i had the benefit of time here right because you only talked for about seven minutes on how you don't collect anything well i stammered over saying nothing the most empty calorie answer ever on this podcast but yeah so the first stanley cup i covered from beginning to end because in 1998 the stanley cup final i covered just the first two games detroit washington but the first one i did beginning to end was 1999 which was dallas buffalo and when the sabers lost on the disputed goal in game six mike pecca smashed his stick coming off the ice.

It was right in front of me. And, you know, I got off the air around two or three in the morning. That's how late we were working then. I was at the score and the stick was right there. And I just said, you know what? I'm taking this as a, as a memory of the first Stanley cup I ever covered from beginning to end. So it's still, I still have it. It's in my garage.

Nice. I think I have a, I used to, I don't know where it went. ever covered from beginning to end so it's still i still have it it's in my garage nice i think i have it i used to i don't know where it went i used to have a bunny larocke goalie stick from when he played with the maple leaves i don't know in various moves things get lost and that's gone but as i've now thought about this a little bit longer as you were talking and i was ignoring you you know what the thing there is there is that I collect, but I don't consider it to be a collectible. And that's videos. I've been an amateur collector of obscure,

surprise, surprise, hockey videos going back decades. There's one from the 60s, which is house footage at Maple Leaf Gardens of a brawl where Orlin Kurtenbach fights Terry Harper twice. Oh my goodness. In of a brawl where Orlin Kurtenbach fights Terry Harper twice. Oh my goodness. In the same brawl. And it doesn't end well for Harper. But I've also got a copy and it's super rare. I've talked to some of the people that were involved in the incident and even the sons of

people that were in the incident. And I showed Bob McGill the incident and he said, my dad was at the game and he told me about it, but I never believed him because it sounded so outrageous. But now I know my dad wasn't BSing me. This is crazy. The 65 Memorial Cup where the Niagara Falls Flyers face off against the Edmonton Oil Kings and Derek Sanderson sucker punches Bob bob falkenberg which is the worst attack i've ever seen in hockey and cops hit the ice and there's billy clubs and in the back they're playing god save the queen on the video now do you know why they did they do that ellie or they used to do that so there was and this started in the maritime so can't get a hockey geeky on you here, Frej. That never happens. I know.

So once upon a time when the referees in Canada would lose control of a hockey game, massive brawls fighting all of it and they couldn't calm everybody down, what they would do

is they would instruct over the PA to play God Save the Queen because the law of the land was once you heard God Save the Queen, which before O Canada was the national anthem, you had to stop the Queen, which before O Canada was the national

anthem, you had to stop what you were doing and stand at attention. That was the only way they could- It's like Slapshot. I'm listening to the bleeping song. Yeah. And faintly in the back of the old Edmonton Gardens, as cops are hitting the ice, chasing kids around the ice, you can hear in the background, they're starting to play God Save the Queen to try to get everybody to stop. And the other great part of that story, and this video is wild. Now, I don't have this on video, but they lead Sanderson off of the ice.

Three members of the Oil Kings alumni grab Sanderson, drag him into a room, and beat him unconscious, right? Because it's such a horrible attack on Falkenberg. And do you know who one of those people were? Oil Kings alumni. Glenn Sather? Glenn Sather. Oh, what a guess. You nailed it.

Freak, that's amazing. You nailed it. I can't believe you nailed that. Do you know the story? Or is that a total guess? It was a total guess because you said Oil Kings alumni and I guessed around 1965. I figured it was a total guess because you said oil kings alumni and i guessed around 1965 i figured it was a shot that's amazing the only other guy like actually i don't even know

if there was another guy i was thinking of the only edmonton oil kings 1965 alumnus i was i was just saying like i can't remember when say they're played there but that's what i'm going with yeah no glenn say there was what and the thing about it is a couple years later they're both playing in the bruins organization and they were roommates in tulsa playing in the minors and i remember asking sanderson once about did you guys ever talk about he said never like how do you never have the conversation oh yeah i remember when you and three of your teammates a couple of older kids like beat me senseless knocked me unconscious and threw me out into the hallway. Anyway, that's what I collect.

I collect old videos. I think some people have tried to do it at work before, but I stalked them out of it. That's awesome. Listen, I'm very seldom impressed at you and by you, but I got to tell you, you pulling out Glenn Sather there, that's good, Freed. Well done. You get the first star of this podcast for that one. Oh my goodness. That's a great pull. Okay, so that was that Memorial Cup, man. Yeah, so I collect videos. That's what I collect. That's my memorabilia. Thanks for the voicemail there.

Great one. Taking us out today, Freed, is a mysterious three-piece band from the UK. Coming off a pair of singles, North Downs dropped their four-track EP. From that record, here's North Downs with Dad's Old Tapes, fitting on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Want to break the old days, reminiscing while I'm there Time moves slowly and then blows through the air But I can always count on them Going through dark states to find a little bit of me

Cases laid around, never to get near All these days just blow through the air But I can always count on them Thank you.