32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Controversy In Ottawa

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman react to the controversy in Ottawa following an anonymous tweet, while also breaking down a dominant 8–2 night for the Avalanche (15:00). The guys discuss Jesperi Kotkaniemi’s painful omission from Finland’s Olympic roster and the growing sense he may need a fresh start (17:01), along with tough losses for Winnipeg and New Jersey and pointed comments from Sheldon Keefe (24:27). They unpack the Binnington–Hofer incident (34:40), ongoing questions around the Milan Olympic arena and logistics (37:40), and trade chatter ranging from Laurent Brossoit to San Jose (49:20) to Brayden Schenn being linked to Toronto (47:25), while also touching on Macklin Celebrini’s MVP-caliber season (51:00) and Patrick Kane reaching 500 goals (1:00:55). The Final Thought looks ahead to the NHL Draft heading to Buffalo (1:04:01)Kyle and Elliotte answer your emails and voicemails in the Thoughtline (1:10:56). In the final segment, Kyle and Elliotte speak with the owner of the Utah Mammoth Ryan Smith following the NHL's announcement that the 2027 Winter Classic will be held in Utah (1:31:17).Today we highlight Montreal based singer songwriter mekel and her single NEEDIT. Check her music out here.Listen to all the 32 Thoughts music here.Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Happy Friday. Tom Shramati, Kyle Bukoskis, Elliot Friedman back with you. Again, we got a lot to get to after a busy week across not just the NHL, but hockey in general. We've got an interview coming up with Ryan Smith, the owner of the Utah Mammoth. If you missed it, they are going to be the hosts of the 2027 Winter Classic in Salt Lake City. That was announced this week as well. But Elliot, there was a time not too long. long ago, but a different era ago in our nation's capital when the types of stories

that would come out around the Ottawa senators, you had to rub your eyes, you had to double check, you were really believing what you were seeing. It got so beyond comprehension at times. and we were into a position where we thought different time now. Ottawa made the playoffs last year. Things were looking up. It's a new regime, new ownership, new people in place, a whole new philosophy. But over the last few days, in particularly on Thursday, it's got to a point again where I don't even know where you want to begin here, Elliot.

some rumors that started to spread rapidly online prompted a, well, put a mildly, strongly worded statement on behalf of Steve Steyos and the organization. And then they go out and get thumped 8 to 2 by the Colorado Avalanche on Thursday. Where would you like to begin on the Ottawa Senator's story that seems to be going in the wrong direction, very, very, very. very quickly. Kyle, I mean, the result, I don't know how anybody could be shocked at the result. First of all, it's a tough back-to-back, Utah, Colorado. That's a big ask. It's absolutely a big ask.

And then when something like that just drops on the world, I don't know how anybody could have been surprised if the senator's minds were anywhere but on that game tonight. there was they had no chance no chance in that game and you could see it very quickly now generally I don't like discussing stories like this I don't I'm uncomfortable with them if you think that makes me a bad or weak person fine with me I generally don't I don't like it when people are in my personal life so I don't like it when I'm in other people's personal life that said Kyle the release, it makes it impossible to ignore. And I'll say when this came out before their game,

I did have some conversations with people who said they shouldn't have done it, that they should have ignored it. Now they just give it more credence. Now they just give it more air. Now they just allow it to become more of a talking point. And here's why I think they did it. You get an anonymous account that pops up online and it makes specific accusations about people. Okay?

It's names, right? If I am a player on the Ottawa Senators and I'm named there and I can only judge others how I judge myself, I am walking into the organization and I'm saying, get me out of here. I did not sign up for this. I signed up for if I play well, I get cheered. If I don't play well, I get booed. If I have a bad night or I have a bad stretch, I understand I'm not exempt from criticism,

but I did not sign up for this. And especially if my family was involved, I would say, get me out of here right now. that is too much. I did not sign up for that. And I guarantee to you, like if you look at that statement that they release,

there is one line there that sticks out to me. We are disgusted that outside forces are attempting to disrupt our hockey club. That's what it's about. They're defending their players. They know, like I said, there are some things that you sign up for. And there are some things that if they happen, it's across the line.

It's too far. That was too far. And if I'm the Ottawa Senators, I'm coming out the way I did. And I understand that some people will tell me it gave too much air or it gave credence to rumors. Yep, that's fair, because I think that's true. However, I guarantee you that the senators are trying to come out and say, we back our players. Because if guys say, I'm done, like, I would.

I would. If somebody dragged my family into this, true or not, I mean, it's especially worse if it's not true, I'm out of there. you would have to find a good reason to get me to change my mind. That is the first thing I thought of when I saw that statement. I was like, wow, that's a powerful statement. And then I said, they have a problem and they know they've got a problem. And they're worried about where one anonymous X account is going to take them. This isn't over.

and they're trying to show their players, we have your backs. And I mean, you can't, you can't control what accounts pop up and start posting whatever they're going to post, whether it's true or not. You can only control so much if you're a player in the league,

if you work for an organization, if you're a general manager, an owner, any of the particulars. There's only so much you can control. But the response does matter. And that's what I thought too. Like, clearly they knew what they were doing. They're well aware that putting this out there was only going to draw more attention to it.

This doesn't go out and then suddenly they think, oh, geez, I didn't consider the fact that now everyone's going to really start talking about what's all been going on here lately. It was all thought there was a reason. behind it all. I just like, where does it go from here? I suppose we don't know that yet. The news that James Reimer's joined in the group, because on the hockey side of thing, this is a team that needs saves, and they don't know when Linus Allmark is coming back. But it is a messy, messy situation. To your point, Fridge, it's not over.

The thing is, too, is that there's certain things, like I said, you sign up for. Right? It's like, it's like my grandmother's line. You plan God laughs, okay? It's, you sign up for wins and losses. One of the best lines I've ever heard about life in sports is there's only two moods, winning and hell. Okay.

So you know there's going to be stretches where you're going great. You're the Buffalo Sabres. You've won 10 games in a row. You know there's going to be stretches like, you know, Winnipeg and New Jersey are going through right now. You know there's going to be times when you climb out of the pit of despair, like Macklin Celebrini is doing with San Jose and Connor Bedard was doing in Chicago before he got hurt. You're like, all right, I see the future.

And the future is very exciting. What you don't sign up for is this. okay because it's a it's not something you control but B you see people online and a lot of them are anonymous gleefully traipsing all over your private life you know like that's the thing like some of the biggest battles I've gotten in with people are about things that they don't believe should be public. Injuries. As you know, Kyle, I've had, you know, a couple, well, one very big spat with a player over an injury.

And, you know, but private life is something else too. Like, you're the Ottawa senators. You're building a team, as you said, you're trying to get out. of the craziness of the previous era, and you think you're doing all the right things. You've sold the team. You've signed a lot of the core players. You made the playoffs last year.

You fell behind, but you put up a fight. You look like you're getting a building. You're doing all of these things properly, right? And now this, which is something you have no, control over and it throws a nuclear bomb into your organization, I can only imagine how bad the day was there today. And the other thing, too, is you're on the road. The players aren't even with their families. You're on the road. And this is what you have to deal with. Like, you don't

sign up for that. And like I said, if it was me, I would be marching into the office the next day, and I'd be saying, no, no, no. That's, you can rip me all you want. You're not bringing my family into this. And that's, that's what the senators are doing. Like I said, they're trying to stand up for their players and say, we've got your backs. But it's out of their control right now. It's a very, very frustrating and helpless place to be.

You know, I'll tell you this. I remember there was one player who was really angry a couple of years ago was something that was said online about him. And I sent him a note, just said, hey, I hope you're doing okay. And he called me and he said, team doesn't want me to say anything. I said, what do you want to do? He goes, I want to say something. And I said, who do you really trust?

And he said, like a couple people. And I said, ask them what they think. And he came back and he called me later. And I said, look, if you want to talk about it, I'm more than happy to talk about it with you. If you feel it's the right thing. But I said to him, this isn't like a trade rumor or an injury or a hockey thing. This is your family.

So I told him I'm not even going to let you talk to me for 24 hours. You have to think about it. And he called me the next day and he said, you know what? I'm just not going to add to it. I'm not going to put gasoline on the fire. So I don't know where this is going to go, but I don't think it's over. Yeah. Well, you mentioned how you'd feel about it all and you can't help but think.

The players that are there, like who were thinking similarly in any regard. And I do feel bad. I feel for the fan base, Elliot. I do because they signed up for a lot of nonsense for a lot of years with going, some point it's going to get better, some point it's going to get better, got a taste of it last year. And here they are back in the basement at the Eastern Conference. The hockey side of things, there's been frustrating aspects of this season,

as they all well know. And now this. And the irony of it all, Elliot. is that, you know, you go back, and I don't mean to be tongue-in-cheek here, but the infamous line from the late owners Eugene Melnick of the five-year run of unparalleled success, well, that was supposed to come to the end as 2025 came to a close. And now here we are, nine days as we drop this on Friday morning, nine days into 2026. And it's like we've gone back to the future in Ottawa in a lot of ways.

It's just bizarre, just bizarre. Anything else on Ottawa before we move on here, Elliot? No, no. I mean, they've got a huge game on Saturday night, the Kachukh ball, right? It's going to be an emotional night already in that building. You know, we'll see if Matthew comes back to play. They were hoping he would somewhere on this road trip, and the Panthers are already 0 and 2.

They got beaten in Toronto. The Maple Leafs look great and they got spanked in Montreal. By the way, Texier, what a fit. He's been there. Just really, really impressive fit for Montreal. So it's already an emotional night there because of everything that happens. I mean, you know, we'll see. Like they don't, like I said, like there's a lot of things in life you kind of prepare for.

And you say, okay, I can, I can handle this. This is one of those things that you can't prepare for. It's, it's over the line. And you cannot blame anybody for how they just, how they decide to handle it. Okay, quickly, while we're on the topic of their game in Denver on Thursday here, I just got to ask you, Friege. So that night, Nathan McKinnon scores his 36th of the year.

Yep. Colorado has 12 games left between now and the Olympic break. How close to 50 is McKinnon by the time he jumps overseas on a plane to head for Milan? That's a great question. Does he have one four-goal game in? there. Right. Like that can completely... I'll say 45. Yeah. Like I'd say that's a good safe, conserve, because he's not far off a goal of game pace this far into the year already.

Ah, man. We should mention too. We should mention too that Josh Manson, a couple weeks ago, we did the Gordy Howe Hat Trick. Oh, not even a couple weeks ago. Oh, it's right. They all blighted. together. I don't blame you. But almost 20 years, 23 years, 24 years ago to the day, 2002 was the last actual hat trick and a Gordyhow hat trick, three goals and the assist in the fight. And Josh Manson, did you see in the third period he was running the power play? They wanted him to get that. Oh, at one point he had the puck in the high slot.

the crowd, they rose to their feet. Like, they knew what the stakes were. They knew where things stood. Dave was there too. That's a great night for the Manson family. Josh has had a real resurgence this year. He's been the Josh Manson that we kind of got used to before battling some injuries. But I thought that was awesome that Dave, who was one of the meanest, toughest guys ever to play could see his son have a big night.

like that. Yeah, that was so one goal away from that and one, I guess, scrap away, because he had two assists as well, one scrap away from the double gordy, which apparently had never been done before. That would have been a first.

Two goals, two assists, two fights. Really? And I got to think if Kachuk wasn't still dealing with a bad hand, he would have got that second fight in the third period. Would have completed it. Anyway, good night for the avalanche.

Yes, very good night. Seasonful of many. Yes, a little bit of adversity, some injuries, but. Back-to-back regulation losses? Stiffs. Yeah. Why don't we shift our attention to Carolina here next, Elliot, and Yersperi, Cotkin, Yemi specifically.

So last week when we were talking Olympic roster, I mean, we were discussing just the shocking fall from grace, really, of a player like Kockeniyemi, where you didn't really have them on the radar for Team Finland. He was a scratch again on Thursday for the Hurricanes. He's been scratched a lot this year. Two goals on the season to this point. He's got four more years on his contract. Where do things stand between Kakki Nemi, the Carolina Hurricanes, and the future?

Yeah, so Cochanemi did not make the Finnish Olympic team, and we kind of talked about how surprising it is that he really wasn't on the radar. And I think anybody would understand that it was a really painful moment for him. Very, very disappointing. and just in making some calls on Thursday, you know, I was going to write a blog on Thursday before a lot of this Ottawa stuff happened and it kind of brought me pause because I wasn't sure at that time how to handle it all. But in making the calls, I started hearing Cochaniemi's name a bit. And I think what's happened is in the aftermath of him not making the finished team,

there is an understanding around the league that he needs a fresh start and the hurricanes are considering it. And I think they have some offers coming their way. I think they're looking at some things. I think it's dependent on can they get something that can help them now or something they can used to help them now. You know, Cockaniami's been in some offers. They offered him to L.A. for Philip Dino. The Kings decided not to do that.

And they offered him to Vancouver in the Quinn Hughes package. So, you know, I've reported before. It sounds like their package involved Cockcanyemi and Nikitian. And, you know, obviously Hughes went to Minnesota. But Carolina is investigating this right now. I don't have a timeline, but they're talking. And, you know, someone pointed out to me, Alexander Vanberg, who's 31 years old, just signed for three times six. Christian Dvorak, who's going to be 30, just signed for five years at 5.15.

Kockenemy is 26 in July, and he's got four years remaining at 4.82. So he's got a lower Aav. And I think as a result, I think there's interest in him. You know, one of the teams that makes a lot of sense to me, I just don't know what like the trade would be. But I look at like he's got the kind of player that's got like Winnipeg written all over it. If Winnipeg liked the player and they need a center to play behind Shifley, you know, he's signed for four more years.

Like that's the kind of player the Jets would look at. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but that was the first team that jumped into my mind. Of course, it depends on, is there a trade that can be made there? How do the Jets feel about them? But honestly, when I heard this, they were the first team that jumped into my head

because it fits their M.O. Whatever the case is, like he was scratched, he didn't play again on Thursday night. I think there's something here, and we'll see, where the hurricanes decide to go. So you think now where the cap is and where it's headed? Because I would have thought prior to all this,

looking at giving him a fresh start somewhere, but knowing there's four more years remaining at a little under $5 million per. Now, as you say, it's not like this guy is 35 years old, just in his mid-20s here. But I would have thought the extra years of commitment would scare a lot of teams off. But at that number now compared to three, four years ago, it's not as big of a digest for two years. I agree.

A hundred percent I agree. Like, look, like I said, look at what Wenberg just signed for. Look at what Vorek just signed for. And that takes two more centers off the board. Right. What another team told me is that Carolina seems pretty confident they can do this if they want. Okay. And I guess for them, yeah.

can you get the kind of help that they're that they're earmarking here if they're going to do this. So I don't make sense. I think the key thing is can they get the help in the trade or do they get something that they think they can use to get help? I see. You know, they beat Anaheim five to two. You know, they're sitting there. They're number one in their division by four points over the Islanders. Like they can, and that's without caught Kenyenne.

taking a regular role. So I think they can afford to be flexible, but what a team told me is there has to be a means to an end there for Carolina. Right. Are they getting something that benefits them as they try to win the Stanley Cup? Right. It's been kind of a strange year there, eh? Like you almost, if you'd never check the standards.

I know. Everywhere. And Carolina being a great example, because if you never looked at the standings, you would think, well, there's no way they're leading their division. because they haven't really been winning games the Carolina way a lot of the time. Like there was the Svetnikov stuff early in the year that was a bit odd. They've had goaltending problems of their own. They've had hanging on elite issues at times.

And yet, as you say, sit atop the metro and now trying to make something of this Kockenemy situation that can lend them more help down the line. Yeah, it's just been, you're right. It's a stranger everywhere. It's not limited to anyone market. Okay. So that's Kakiniemi. How about Mangapani? He was another healthy scratch Thursday.

Boy, another rough night for Winnipeg. My goodness, a week after 4-1 in Toronto, they lose 3-1 at home. Yeah. What did you see as you were watching the end of the game? I'll be honest. By that time, I was kind of going around and I didn't, you were telling me that you noticed something at the end of the game that concerned you.

Yeah, I mean, because you had talked about after the Ottawa game, just some of the body language stuff that did not look encouraging. And as they were trying to tie the game up against Edmonton, you know, Kyle Connor has the, they chip the puck out in the neutral zone. Edmonton does. Connor has it on a stick. There's, you know, eight seconds left where odds aren't great there,

but it's not like time is out. And anyway, they just seemed like there was maybe not, the most urgency in terms of tagging up to be able to go and make one final attempt at a tie in the game and it just yeah you can understand how it's all piling up sports net stats put out there Thursday night they've lost 13 straight games decided by one goal establishing an NHL record unbelievable and yeah right it was death by a thousand cuts wasn't that the arneal line right like they they were winning all those games last year yep and now They're a fickle mistress.

You see, I see them in New Jersey in the same boat right now. Yeah. Where, you know, some people who are like Devils fans, I know they were mad that nothing happened right after the 9-0-0 game. I wasn't incredibly surprised by that. And one of the reasons is I think people in sports, remember last week, and we talked about guys who didn't make, like, their Olympic teams or Team Canada. And I said, don't make a decision when you're angry, right? You don't make life changes when you're emotional.

It's the worst time to make them. And I think a lot of sports teams really try to do that. When you're angry, don't make the call. Take a deep breath, cool down. It's okay for fans to be mad. They're fans. They're your passion. They drive your bus.

They're your lifeblood. But you can't make decisions running an organization when you're mad. But what I do think is happening in New Jersey, and what I do think is happening in Winnipeg is they're starting to ask really tough questions internally. How did we get to this point? How did this happen? You know, Winnipeg, I don't think they felt they were going to be, I mean, it seems like we talk about them every pod now.

They didn't think they were going to be the number one team in the league again, but they weren't expecting this. How did we get here? And how did we get out of it? I think the devils are asking, hey, we were 13, 4 and 1 with a lot of injuries. How did we end up here? And I think they're starting to ask some really tough questions internally about getting out of it.

Now, let me just go back to Manjapani a second. As you mentioned, Healthy Scratch again. I think there are teams that have kicked tires. I think the Jets are one of them. I think San Jose is another one of them. I think there's a couple more, but to me, this is going to be how does the trade work? Whatever the case is, I've said I think they will be able to trade them. I just don't have a good timeline on it.

But I've heard there's interest and then it becomes, how's it all going to happen? You know, for the devils, it's very clear to me that the whole Quinn Hughes situation just damage their internal workings. Business got out. No trade clauses used. Things like that. And I don't know. how you fix that.

I mean, I kind of look at it like it's business and you have to put it behind you, but the devils right now have moved into a team that's kind of like we're waiting for something to happen. Now, the thing about Kovicevic is there's, it's been written a couple times now. You know, he has to come back and they might have to do some surgery.

we'll see what happens. I checked, I asked around today, like especially, because you always wonder, are the league and the players association getting upset here? Like, you'll remember a few years ago, the league forced Vegas to say,

you know what, you got to play some guys. And so I've wondered if we were getting to that point here. I've heard no. Like, I've heard that he's legitimately not, not yet ready to play, so they're not on top of them. But when I see the devils right now, I just see a team that's kind of waiting for the shoe to drop. What's going to happen? Is it

going to be a trade? Is it going to be some kind of change? I don't know that we're going to see a change that quickly. But what I do think is internally, they're starting to ask some very hard questions about how did we get here and what are we going to do about it. Keith had a couple of really pointed comments at the end of the game the other night. He was ready for the ones about the job security. He handles those very well. He always has. But what was the one that stood out to you?

So it was within that same answer about when he was asked about his job security. And he looked at where they're at. over this stretch and that it's an opportunity to kind of take a longer-term view as an organization. The one line that stuck out to me was we've got work to do to become a real hockey team. You want to say there's a perception out there that we were a real hockey team before we put the work in. I don't know if that wink said, as you say, Elliot, the good start that they had despite injuries and maybe there was an assumption that, hey, we've arrived when in fact that there was a lot more work

be done. But that was one of the more telling things I heard out of him. Almost this whole week of tough results for the devils, that one really stuck out to me. I don't know what you thought. Well, you know, I've heard Keith say stuff like that before. And it used to set off fire bombs in Toronto. I've never minded it. Like I'd rather someone be honest than lie to me.

but I just think it's it's pretty obvious ever since the Quinn Hughes stuff got out that team just hasn't been the same. Yeah. Oh and by the way, speaking of New Jersey, we had an in-game thought line question. Oh, yes, I love when this happens. Because they'd given up, what, 14 straight?

Yes, over the last game. And somebody was asking me, like, is somebody asked, is that the record for most goals given up in a row? by a team. So you ask the Sportsnet stats people. Yeah. Steve Fallen got back to me. No, it's not the record. And as he says, it's not even a franchise record. If you include the days when they were the Kansas City Scouts back in 1974, they had a stretch where they gave up 20 unanswered, which is tied for the league record. The Minnesota North Stars also gave up 20 unanswered. concert back in 88. They, uh, geez. Yeah.

They wear the dunce cap for, for that record. So yeah, 14 was not pretty, but also not the record. Wow. That's two blogs in a row with in-game thought lines. Yeah. We need like a little breaking news sting or something, some little music thing to slide into. Oh, do do, do, do, do. Yeah.

Maybe not that one. No. You know what's wild? So I got a call about that 9-0 game. And someone said to me, did you actually watch that game? I said, not really. I mean, I was working at least panthers at the same time. And he said to me, the devil's outplayed them.

Yeah, they did. Like that's why, because I wasn't watching it live either. I saw the score. And my initial thought was, oh, boy, is this going to cost somebody their job? job or multiple people their job. And I'll admit, I didn't go back and watch the entirety of the game, but through the expanded highlights, I'm like, I still can't make sense of it. It's like somebody who was at the game said, the thing that nobody's talking about is that the devils were the better team that night. The Islanders just scored all on all of their chances.

Right. And Sorokin was incredible. And he made some brilliant saves. And, you know, the thing about Markstrom and pulling him and people were talking about, oh, it's Patrick Wa. Like what irony. Marshall's been pulled a lot this year. I didn't have a problem with Keith saying I needed to fight through it. You know, I told this story on the radio on Thursday on Marquesian feudist show.

I remember talking to David Wells a few years ago, the pitcher. And he told me that he pitched a game in Milwaukee where he got destroyed. The Jays lost something like 16 to 3. And this was in his first stay with the Jays when Cito was the man. manager and Cito walked out like they had some real battles like Wells once was taken out of a game he threw the ball down the first baseline and when Cito almost destroyed him but he said he told me that Cito walked out to him and said look our bullpen is exhausted I need to give them a break today I'm going to ask you to take one for the team I know you and basically Gaskin apologized

to him he said I should take you out I need to give you you to eat this today. And Wells said, you know what, like I understood. He came to me. He told me what he needed and he got pounded. And, and he said the thing that you really appreciated at the end of the game was Gaston told everybody what happened. He said, look, I told David, I, I, I hate to make him look bad, but I need you to do this and we'll always remember it. And Well, said he was okay with that. And I thought about that with Markster when I'm sure it wasn't as genteel as that conversation was. As a matter of fact, I bet it wasn't. And I bet it wasn't. And but I always think about, you know, like,

sometimes when you've been pulled a lot, just battle. Get out there and battle. Like the whole thing with Bennington and Hofer, and it's kind of an interesting situation too with the story that came out on Thursday. The thing that kind of surprised me was why were they making the goalie change

with seven minutes left? Like I, like Jim Montgomery's forgotten more about hockey than I'll ever know. But the thing that I was wondering, about was Holfer's been sitting for two and a half hours. Like, why are you putting him in there? Right.

I just wouldn't want to risk injury. That's the thing that terrifies me. Hofer goes in there for seven minutes left. And I think it was seven two at the time. If he gets hurt, you've got a real problem on your hands. Yeah. The thing that was strange to me was the fact that he had his mask on, right? Like to me, that kind of debunks the whole, well, was he really trying to avoid

get in the call, like he knew Bennington didn't want to come out or anything like that. Are you calling everyone in St. Louis a liar? No, I'm not. I just like... Oh, I think you are. Otherwise, you don't have your mask on in that position if you're not at least anticipating or getting ready. Well, I think to be fair, I would love to keep this going and have a call this podcast Bukascus, colon, The City of Liars. Another colon, St. Louis. St. Louis. People could listen and figure out what city Iran. The shot of, the shot of Hofer came after play had resumed, right?

Yes. So it is possible that he was not dressed and he poked his head back out when he was dressed. Roberto Luongo tells a great story about, do you remember in the 2011 Chicago, Vancouver series when, when Cory Schneider got the cramps? Yep. And Luongo had to throw all his gear on and charge out because he was in the room at the time. Game six.

That was injury, so it was a bit different. But same thing, basically. He was half undressed and he had to throw all the stuff on. He said he charged out. he felt like stone cold Steve Austin, like charging into the ring. It was a great line. So funny. Same building, coincidentally, right?

Yeah, same building, exactly. That's great. But I like, I think it's better if I just say that you're accusing the entire blues organization being full of liars. No. I think, I think I've been misunderstood. I think I've been misunderstood. Anyway. It was great visuals and otherwise another difficult night for St. Louis.

Anyway, I think with both devils and the Jets, I think you're seeing organizations ask some really hard, hard questions about where they ended up and what they're going to do about it. Yes. Much sooner than they expected. No question. There have been a lot of hard questions, particularly late. I've lately asked about what's going on over in Milan in preparation for particularly the hockey tournament and the men's side with the majority of their games playing at the San Zanziglia arena.

So there was the footage and the photos put out by Florian Wiser, the Italian hockey player, that of course went everywhere on Thursday, Elliot. Yeah. First of all, Florian, thank you for tagging me in those photos. Yeah, I saw it. It made my life easier. I really do appreciate it. You know what's interesting about that is, so I had heard that the league and the double IHF, well, probably the double IHF, it's probably them more than anyone else.

I don't think the NHL would have the jurisdiction over this, but I had heard that they were going to make the player sign NDAs. So Florian, first of all, I appreciate you either not signing it or completely ignoring it or just not being aware of it. Thank you very much. But, like, the one that made me laugh was the change room. Yeah, if you can call it that. When I first moved into university, I basically had a couch, a television, and a cinder block.

Oh, God. And my place looked better than that. Yeah. That's right. It was more furniture. I mean, it's so. What I'd heard and his pictures confirmed everything is that basically they are going to get the ice and the playing surface and the area around it done. That is their goal.

And if everything else is short or not ready, but the playing surface and the ice and the areas around it are done, that's going to be a good victory for them. That's what it's going to be. And nothing in that picture tells me I'm wrong. Or the people who told me that were wrong. Right now, it's purely of do we get this tournament played? Right. Everything else is.

And we're going to get it played. These guys are going to, they could play it, like I said, on pancakes and syrup. That's, we're going to play the Olympic hockey tournament on pancakes and syrup. These guys are going to play it. And the test event begins today, correct? Yes, yes. So we'll get a better sense of where things are at over the next few days with that going on. Can I just say the most amazing thing to me that I've read or saw over the last few days, the latest updates.

I'm reading Emily Kaplan's article at ESPN about things that, you know, the players and the teams, are told to brace for that may be a little different from their usual NHL setup. The food. When she highlighted how the food might not be up to the same standard

as they're used to having in I know it's affectionately called the No Hungry League, Elliot, this event is taking place in Italy. We are talking about a sport whose athletes, I mean, one of their favorite things is to carb load.

It's, on game days. Now, I mean, maybe that's a little bit more archaic in the year 2026. I know knowledge around nutrition has evolved, especially the last five, ten years. But I couldn't help but laugh at that going. The food might not be as good. I'm like, what are you talking about?

Even a bad dish of pasta in Italy is still good over there. That one, that one stunned me. Kyle, when we get there, we're not going to care. It's going to be a great hockey tournament. Oh, yeah. Somehow. Somehow the players are going to make it a great tournament. Well, yes, that's the how.

But I'll say this. I'll say this. The NHL owners and the league here, they will not forget this. They feel they were taken advantage of. Oh, yeah. I believe it. They will. And one thing about this group, especially Batman, long term, someday, they will get even.

Oh, hopefully not at the fan's expense. But to your point, you know, somehow it's going to be great. It's the players is the somehow. Why was Four Nations great? Because the players decided that it mattered. And this will be great because it matters to all of them. that are going over there. Haven't lost the sight of that as we've gone through all this.

All right, a few other things we wanted to get to here. So Nick Kiprio's put up his latest on Sportsnet.ca, just some rumblings, what he's hearing as we're inch and closer to, I guess, A, the Olympic break and we're what, two months away inside two months from the trade deadline and everyone's trying to map out, okay, who's buyers, who's sellers. still a bit of time to determine a lot of that. But he talked a little bit about Toronto.

What an overtime, by the way, between the Leafs and the Flyers. Scott Lawton scores in his return in Philly, 19 and 1 in the faceoff dot. 19 and 1. Pretty amazing, eh? Absolute nails. On fish night. Yeah. I'm not talking about fish like you eat, fish the band.

Right. So I know a guy who's a fish guy. and he was at the game, and he told me there was like a Flyers Fish collab shirt, and he said you would not believe how long the lineup was. Oh, really? Yeah. He said, if I stood in the line for that thing,

I would have missed the entire game. Wow. So they still move the needle, eh? All these years later. Oh, yeah. So are you a fish person? Like, I'm, I admit, I'm not a fish person. Are you a fish person?

I think familiar with a couple of the songs, I wouldn't say I'm a fish person, no. Okay. So I know a few of them, a couple of my wife's cousins, they go see them everywhere. Like, they have a whole crew of people that they see at every fish concert. A whole, it's like a traveling party. Yeah. Yeah. I could just imagine what that whole.

arena atmosphere was that was a heck of a hockey game that overtime was phenomenal yes it was Easton Cowan putting the finishing touches in the building where he scored his first in the NHL nice pass between the legs from

John Tavares to set him up by the way but come back win for the Leafs they're one point back of a wild card spot despite such an ugly start for them they too are in the conversation of all right are they back are they not and the critical few weeks it feels like in sorting all of this out.

But one thing you wanted to highlight that Nick had talked about was what they had looked at a year ago around the trade deadline, that Cowan was on the table in an attempt to get Braden Shen from St. Louis. Yeah, you know, Nick's tradeboards and his rumor columns are really good. And when I read that one, I was like, okay, another good column. And then I had a couple of people kind of asked me about it. Like did I hear the same thing on St. Louis? And I heard mostly the same stuff. A couple of different things, but I figured, you know what?

I do it in the pod. So one thing that I absolutely believe is true is that if the blues told the Mapleys, if you want Shen, it was going to be Cowan, Danford, and something else, like possibly a pick. and they said that is the deal we will do that we will take to ask Braden Shen. And so I think that's 100% true. Like I think that was on the table. The story I heard that was just a little bit different was how it all came to an end. And Nick reported that he heard that Doug Armstrong wasn't willing to do it.

I heard two other versions. So somewhere between the three. of them is the truth. Number one I heard was that Shen wasn't going to waive to Toronto unless the Maple Leafs also got Luke. Like when that was all going on about teams uniting the Shen brothers, that's what I think Toronto was trying to do. And if the Maple Leaf had gotten Luke, I think Braden would have waived to go there. So part of the problem was I don't think since that didn't happen and Luke went to Winnipeg where he's now available, I don't think this deal was going to get done. I don't think Braden was going to wave. The other thing I heard was that the

Maple Leafs also looked at the situation and said, instead of doing that deal, we can do more by making two deals. And they ended up making the deals they made, the one for Carlo and the one for lot and so it's interesting like it's interesting because my information is no better than anyone else's uh but i absolutely think that that was the package that was on the table that was going to have to get it done for shin i just heard different outcomes but nick is totally right that uh that was what it was going to take to get them wow and you look at the way calvin's developed this here like i if you're trying to Toronto, whether it's in an attempt to squeeze more out of this window you're in now,

I don't think you can afford to part with them. I think there's too much there going you've got to, that's someone you, that helps get you through this next wave whenever that comes to fruition. You can't, you can't trade him. Like, unless you're getting a young player who's going to be with you for a long, long, long time, you can't trade him. credit to him credit to him for

I mean you know a year ago it was hey he had gotten away from that dogged mentality that had made him so attracted to the Leafs in the first place and he has become that

that player again that clearly he's got a big fan and Craig Barubi the head coach wow we should mention quickly congratulations Luke Shen 1100 career games he had

you mentioned him just throw that in we had a trade on Thursday Loram Beausois is now a member of the San Jose Sharks. Now there are some other pieces involved in all that, including Ryan Ellis's contract. So Chicago doesn't eat any of Bersois's salary and sending him to San Jose. But this is a shark's team that, as of right now, firmly in the mix, Macklin Celebrini is not allowing anything but contention and staying in the conversation.

He was brilliant again the other night. Oh, my God. You know what? People have got to stop saying if they make the playoffs, he could be the heart trophy winner. He could win the heart trophy even if they missed the playoffs. Now, have you not been a staunch believer that the heart trophy, like you should be on a playoff team if you're going to win the heart?

You should. It's happened three times. Yeah. Al Rollins, 1954. Andy Backgate 1959 Mario Lemieux 1988

But I just look at them right now And remember At the beginning of the year They look dead in the water, right? Mm-hmm. You know, what is he like 20 points ahead of the next guy on his team in scoring? Mm-hmm.

He's going to play top six in the Olympics. I think he's factored in on Like literally 50% of San Jose's goals this year. He's got a chance to set some kind of a record. I saw some stat about that the other day or like the most, like the most in recent memory. I could be butchering that. But to me, he's a guy. And you're right.

Generally, I believe you've got to be in the playoffs to win MVP. But I did vote for Adam Fox when he won Norris. not in the playoffs. So I think there are exceptions to every rule. It's halfway through the season. We've got a long way to go. But he's going to be an exception to the rule. If they're close, if they're anywhere close,

I could vote for him if he continues having the season he had, number one. Like I think this, I think he's so good. And he's, you know, like one of the things I talked about, the other day too was this week they played Columbus on a Tuesday night. Tenants was 16,000 in San Jose. Yep. Last year, because they played Columbus at home once a year, last year their home game against Columbus was also on a Tuesday.

It was in November 2024. They had 10,000. Wow. And that's him. That's him. He's appointment. viewing now. So their home game against Columbus was 6,000 more fans this year compared to last.

And when they went to L.A. for that great game on Wednesday, there were Sharks fans all over the building. Right. Which he is he often. He is appointment television. He is selling tickets. People want to see that kid play. He's a draw.

And, you know, that maybe doesn't figure into the MVP voting. But I think it just shows the legend of Macklin Celebrini is growing. And look, like, they're in the race. Absolutely. And apparently, and again, everybody in the Pacific Division pretty much is. Yes, yeah. But back in November, so on a Friday night, they played at home to Winnipeg. and they edged them two to one.

They came from behind. It was a big win for them at the time. Of course, Winnipeg was at a different spot then than they are now. Like that was like, oh, raining president's trophy winners. We hang on.

We beat them in our barn. And they played another home game the next night, the Saturday against Florida. I believe there was something a lot. It was one of their top days in franchise history for like single game kind of day of walk up ticket purchases. Yeah. because everyone was so excited about the win Friday.

They're like, we want to come see them the next night. And they beat Florida 3 to 1 the next night. And they've continued to be on an incredible pace. You know what it's like watching Celebrating? So, I mean, McDavid comes into the league. It's the speed. The hands move at a rate that we've never seen before. Matthews comes into the league.

And a lot of ways, like if, you know, when you want to take a step back and look at the history of the evolution, of the shot in hockey. I mean, he's going to have a hand in that. Like that curl and drag that we hadn't seen much before, you've now got kids that have grown up doing it. And it's because of him. Like, that was his imprint on the game.

If I was Celebrini, it's the deception. Yeah. It is incredible. On the overtime winner, right? Yes. I remember you talked about that on the radio the day. Yeah, he was completely frozen. Yes.

And if you go back to earlier in the year, remember he scored that? overtime winner in Minnesota on the breakaway. Yep. If you go back and watch the way he has the puck on the toe of his blade and he's starting to pull it in like he's gearing up to rip the puck high. And instead of doing that, he almost like pushes the puck. So the goalie's getting ready to react up top.

And instead he pushes the puck flat on the ice and rips it five hole. And you can tell, I don't know if it was gustav. or Walsett or who was playing that night for Minnesota, but was completely fooled by it. Like, it's, it's pretty cool the stuff he's doing with his eyes, with his hands, his feet, all working in unison to make you think one thing when really his plan is something different. He's amazing.

So all this to say, Laurent Blasois. What was, what do you think the motive was for San Jose and bringing him in? Well, one of the things I looked at is, you know, first of all, they're in the race right now, right? Mm-hmm. And their top goalies are Ascarov, who looks like a real stud. I have to say, you know, Mike Rear, he's hit a lot of singles, right? Like, a lot of singles. I mean, like, taking some small swings, but they're accumulating.

And some people might take issue with my labeling of Ascarov. as a single. And I think I could be, I think I'm probably wrong on that because I think long term, he'll be much more than a single. But Greer's taking a bunch of small bites, a bunch of small bites, a bunch of small bites, and all of a sudden you can see the accumulation, right? Like, they're starting to go a bit here. And they still have work to do. And they're still, they're far from being like a super NHL contender. But you start to see the accumulation. And, you know, I mean, the number one thing is Celebrini. Like, he's the driver. He's huge for that franchise. They're going to write him a blank check whenever he wants a blank check. Just, hey, Maclin, fill in the number.

But around him, like, especially him at Ascarov, like, that was a great move for them. But they've also got Nadelcovic, and Nadelcovic battles a lot of injuries. Historically, he's kind of battled that. And if you look at their three and four goalies in the organization, Gabriel Carrier and Jakub Skarek, Carrier has played, has never played an NHL game. Scaric has played two. And I just think that that's what this is about, is now you're in the race and you need a third. To me, that's a little bit of Mike Greer saying, we have to have somebody else, the players have spoken, the players have put us in the race.

We need to, that's, that's a former player GM saying, we need to have some insurance here in case somebody, something happens to someone. And, you know, I think, Brasua, if you look at the acquisition cost, you know, the whole thing very interesting is the Ryan Ellis contract. And that's a contract to eat up cap space or to get you to a floor. and at one time San Jose needed that. They don't need it as much.

Chicago may need it, depending on what moves they make. So we'll see what happens there. But to me, this was a bit of Mike Greer saying, I have to have something in place in case one of my two NHL goalies goes down. And that to me was what that deal was about. Right.

Should mention Nolan Allen. This is a depth option. Also part of it too, going to San Jose on the back hand. Well, San Jose also has, like, if you look at them, and Chicago has a lot of defensemen. Yes. Like, there's some defensemen at the HL level or probably chafing about being at the HL level, right? So, but if you look at San Jose, too, like, look at San Jose's defense and who's signed,

you know, after this year, there's a lot of. lot of openings there. The only defenseman signed after this year, aside from Dickinson, who's on his ELC, is Orlov. Right. Like, everybody else is unsigned. And a lot of UFAs. And a lot of UFAs.

So, you know, Nolan Allen, he gets a chance to make an impression on the organization. Okay. Hey, another milestone we should mention. And Patrick Kane, 500 career goals. Yeah. A pair against Vancouver on Thursday. 500 comes by way of the empty net. Everyone clears the bench to join him in celebration.

He has talked about like it's almost a second chapter of his career, his time now in Detroit. Doesn't want to just be known as a guy that had some great years in Chicago and then wasn't able to accomplish much after that. And now it's the 500 goal plateau in his career. you know what it's just a reminder of how much some guys just love hockey right they just love it and it was really cute he he interviewed with his son in the pose game and his son's what did his son say i want him to go to 600 yes yes so i mean that was nice uh you know you could tell that really meant a lot to him that you know a lot of patrick kane's best days as a player were obviously before he's he He had children. So it is very nice to share those moments with them. I can't remember who it was, but I remember one player who was getting his number retired,

told me that he asked the team to wait until his kids were a little bit older so that, you know, they would have a better understanding of what he did. So I liked that for Kane. You know, he's just one of those guys that goes, interesting. I think I think it was Pat Maroon

was on with Colby Cohen and Johnny Lazarus and he was saying he just misses being around the group right? Like that's what you miss and when I see Patrick Keane playing I think about that a lot. Like that's a guy who when it's over he's just

going to miss he's going to miss it like he's going to it's just something you're going to have to rip out of his hands. You know we're watching like the the college football playoff here. And at the end of every game, you see guys who know they've just played their last

football game. And maybe they didn't go pro, but they still played football like high school, junior high school, college. And, you know, what is that? It's, it's, you know, it's, it's 11, 12 years, some of the best years of your life. and all of a sudden it's over. And it's so devastating in that moment. I see guys like Kean, I'm like,

he'll play delay rip it out of his hands. Yeah, that's cool. It is great, like how much he still loves the game and you can see it. And there's still been flashes like multiple times this year where you're like, guys still got it. He has still got it. Especially with, you know, on a line with Alex DeBringit and the magic that they've had from their Chicago.

days. There's still a lot of game there and now 500 career goals. So congratulations to him. Okay, let's get to the final thought here. The draft, Elliot. Sounds like we know where it's going to be this June. Yeah, John Bucergros was the first to put it out there. He kind of danced around it, but it is Buffalo. It's a done deal. It's getting announced, I think, next week. Yeah, but Buffalo is the team. And, um, I heard this was a big challenge. And one of the reasons it's a big challenge is because of the World Cup of soccer.

Right. And there's a lot of places in the States that had some interest. And as a matter of fact, like depending on where the Stanley Cup is this year, if it's in one of the World Cup cities, like somebody said to me, it's going to be carnage. Oh, yeah. Hotel rooms? Yeah. Like you're already hearing stories just even in Canada. We'll be staying on Mars.

Yeah. Yeah. Even in like Toronto and Vancouver. Like I'm sure you've heard stories of even if you look at booking a hotel room now for when there's going to be games there. In particular, of course, when Canada's playing. I mean, good luck. Yeah. It's Taylor Swift all over again.

Canada might be the easier team. Right. Dom, don't have to worry about Vancouver. Thanks, Tom. And Toronto, Dom. Is that who you meant to? Don't have to worry about Vancouver in general. Yes.

Okay, thanks, Tom. Thanks for your input to this podcast. Anyway, yes, the World Cup wrecked havoc with the draft this year. I heard there were some concerts that were also issues. But Buffalo is a done deal. That is going to be happening. And I think that there were a couple other cities that looked into it. Montreal was very interested, but they had it more recently than Buffalo.

So that's why I think Buffalo got it now. But that is a done deal and will be announced next week. The other thing that is interesting is we're going to talk to Ryan Smith, as you mentioned. He's our interview guest today. They have not yet set the Winter Classic date and time. And you know what? We talked about it in one of the more recent pods, football. and sun.

And, you know, one of the things, you know, people are saying, why don't you play it in the afternoon again on July 1st, no matter what? And the sun has become a very big deal. And, you know, for example, in Winnipeg, I did the game there, Winnipeg Edmonton where it got delayed because of the sun. And you remember what happened in Lake Tahoe a couple of years ago when they had to delay the game because of the sun. And so I think the sun.

sign has become a major factor for why it's moved later or at night. Don't tell that to Joe Bowen. No, I'm just kidding. Oh my God. I mean, like, I couldn't believe that. Like, that was, it was just crazy. Like, geez, it was kidding. My goodness.

Talk about an overreaction. Anyway, the other thing, too, is that they want to stay away from. college football and that's a monster and the NFL. Like if you look, they, they just had the top 100 broadcasts in, in the United States last year and anything, 93 of them were football. I think the Oscars, like there were two baseball games, I think, including game seven, which we still, which I still blocked out, never happened. Don't speak up.

Like I think the Oscars was there, the state of the union, but 93 of the 100 top broadcasts were football. And so I think one of the things they wait to see is what's the NFL schedule and what's the college schedule. And, you know, one of the things apparently they were talking about in college football is that last week, the quarterfinals, they had one on New Year's Eve and three on New Year's day. And apparently it might not be set up like that again next year. So, you know, we'll see. But I do think Utah's a great choice. I think it will, you know, like I, I, it's,

spoke to some people who went to the game in Florida last week, and they said they had a great time. Like they loved it. It's just the buzz around it decreased. I think this will add to some buzz back to it, but I think they're still trying to see, like, what's the way we can avoid getting swallowed by football? Yes. Yeah. Suddenly it's like nowhere to hide anymore.

with how crowded that particular part of the calendar has become between the NFL and college ball. Just to go back to the draft. Like they've hammered NBA Christmas Day too, right? Like that used to be the NBA's day. And like they had like bad football games. They had that quarterback from the Vikings that nobody ever heard of. And they beat the NBA, I think, like three or four to one.

Like the football just eats everything in its path. It's like the cookie monster. He's the dead. the decadence and Oreos and oatmeal raisin and it devours everything in its path. So just to go back to the draft, like is it a Feta-com play that if it's in Buffalo, is it at Keybanks Center, the arena?

Do they go Shea's Buffalo Theater perhaps? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that. But I'll tell you that one of the things that we talk that's absolutely happening is what we talked about. They're streamlining it. I don't know if it's the first two rounds on the first night in three to seven the next day,

but they are streamlining it. Don't do the first two. And if you're going to streamline it, if you're not going to have the teams there present on site, don't do it in the arena either. Well, they did, remember, we talked about the setup, right? They want to change the walk. They want to make the walk quicker. Right.

So don't do it in a big arena. All right, we'll see. Don't tell me. I don't have any control. I've got to tell you. You're the only one who will listen. And that's even half the time. Not even true.

Okay. All right. Why don't we take our first break then? That was the final thought. When we come back, it's another edition of the thought line. And yes, as mentioned, a little later on in the pod,

our interview with Ryan Smith of the Utah Mammoth. You're listening to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Stay tuned. Okay, welcome back. Time for another edition. of the thought line, Elliot, before we get to the main course, any appetizers? Thoughts on the thought line before we go any further. Just a ton more raccoon videos.

I don't know if people have alerts set up for raccoons and they just send them to me, but I got a bunch more this year. One person in the league sent me a couple videos of raccoons fighting outside their house, which was hilarious. there's I watch them all. I get a laugh out of all of them, but I'm amazed at the amount of raccoon videos I get sent. I hope that never goes away.

And it doesn't sound like they're only getting more domesticated here. So it's, uh, those numbers aren't going down, I don't think, anytime soon. People think about where the world is going. This is where the world is going. It won't be next generation. But it might be two generations from now. We are going to be ruled by our raccoon overlords.

We got, someone wrote into the thought line pushing back on our Gordy Howe Hattrick and also regular Hattrick in the same game stat. They complained that the one goal that's part of the Gordy Howe hat trick should not count towards a regular three-gole hat trick. I don't know if I agree with that. Wait, wait, wait. What's the issue here? I don't understand. What's the problem? Okay.

Now I'm going to go here and find it. So Alexander wrote in and says, him and his buddies determine that in order to complete a gorty and standard hatrick in the same game, a player must score four goals, not three. The reason is simple. You cannot count any one goal as contributing to both. the Gordy and the standard. Attributing a specific goal toward both is absurd.

By that logic, we would say a player scored two hatrics in a game in which they scored four. The first hatrick being goals 1, 2, 2, and 3, and 3, and 4, instead of the 6, a true double hat trick that a game would require. By this objectively correct definition, Jeremy Roanick is the only NHL player to complete the Gordy plus standard hatties. I don't know about that one. Alexander, A, you just broke my brain. B, I just don't have the mental capacity to think about this.

Shelving it for a later date. Not even a later date. I'm shelving it, shelving it. You know, it's that gift you get at Christmas? Oh, what a wonderful gift. And it goes in the closet. That's where that's going. Yes.

That's what a gift receipt is for, Dom. Yes, Tom. Those presents. What's this? There's no price on it. Yeah. Well, I didn't even see it. So Alexander tried to humor your point, but it's not getting much traction here.

If you get three goals, you get an assist, you get in a scrap, you've earned the right to say you've done both in the same game. So that's just me. That's just me. Moving forward here. Kent from Nashville, hello, Elliot and Kyle. I've been meaning to ask this question for months, but now that I've caught up on all my New Year's chores, I finally have some time to ask.

I've always wondered how coaches call out line changes during a game, especially in a big game or the playoffs. The home coach might be watching to see who on the other team is jumping the boards to decide who they want to match up with them. Do they call out the center's name and the wingers know to go with them? Do they number the lines and just yell, one to four to tell them to go. What do they do if they mix up the lines?

Do the players need to remember their line number or that their center has changed? Maybe they just tap three guys in the back of the head and then they know it's their turn. Do the defensive pairings get an A, B, and C, so it's not confusing. I'd love to know the logistics of how this all works, especially being a Nashvilleian who's never played a hockey game in his life. Great question. All coaches are different. when it comes to actually making the line change sometimes,

if you saw the interview we did with Tom Wilson, you'll know that John Cooper has a piercing whistle. He can do it with his fingers. Some of you can. Phil Jackson was also known for that. Back when I used to cover the NBA, Kyle, I was sitting next to the Bulls bench a couple of times when Phil Jackson would do his whistle,

and you could not miss it. But Cooper does that. Scotty Bowman was famous. He had a duck call. He had a horn that made like a duck, a duck noise. He would use that oftentimes to make his line changes. In terms of players coming up next,

usually it's a tap. Like you're up next. When you get tapped, you know you're the next guy going. You know, if you make line changes, you probably just go and tell the player and then you yell to guys, hey, this guy's going with you next time or you're going with these two guys next time. It's that simple.

But usually it's something just as simple as a tap on the back so you know you're next. There's a great story that Mike Gartner told that when he was playing for the Rangers and Mike Keenan was the coach, Mike Gartner was on the team and Mike Hartman was on the team. and, you know, Gartman was, Gartman, Gartner was not a favorite of Keenan, he talked about, and there was one time he said that Keenan yelled for Mike Gartman to go over the boards. And Gartner was convinced that Keenan was doing it to see, he knew exactly what he did, and he wanted to see which one of the two guys would jump over and go first. And Gartner said the two of them looked at each other and then he's,

like, I'm just going. Like, I'm taking this shift. I'm not getting a lot of shifts. I'm just going. So there's twisted ways like that, but generally it's a tap or you get told you're next. And oftentimes there'll be one assistant coach whose job is to look at the other bench and see who's coming up next if it's not the head coach themselves doing it. Yeah. I think often the case, usually the center, their name is. yelled, right? Yes, right. That's another one too. It's McKinnon's line. And then if now, if we're mixing it up in game, coach doesn't like how the lines are going, then you start hearing three names

because he's starting to mix it up. So now I'm going McKinnon with this guy and this guy, as opposed to how they've been running. And usually, you know, the head coach is primarily calling out which forward lines are coming next. Whoever's in charge of the defense kind of handles the defense pairs

other than maybe certain points of the game or the head coach will come down and say, look, stop, you know, we're not playing this guy anymore. He doesn't have it tonight or I want to make an adjustment here. Then we'll see that. But typically it's the forwards that the head coach is primarily vocalizing. And as you know, when it comes to some of the top guys in the game or maybe a top line in certain scenarios,

maybe on an icing or something where you've got the other team hemmed in and they're tired. Like, coach doesn't even have to say anything. thing. Like you'll see whistle goes and guys already got like Ovechkin, right, was famous for it, right? Already the leg over the boards. Yeah, they finally stopped them on that one, eh? Like they said you can't do that anymore. Right. There's a safety issue. Um, but yes. And as, as you, uh, wonderfully explained, there is, every coach does have some unique quirks about how they go about doing it too. So very good. Thank you, Kent, for that. Mark from South. Jersey. So I'm watching the Flyers and Ducks this week and something random popped into my head.

I was thinking about that story of Christian DeVorak signing his contract and having to call Trevor Zegaris at like 11 o'clock at night to come over just so he could be a witness. That got me wondering, what do NHL contracts actually look like in practice? Are we talking full digital docusign? Is it email, print, sign, scan, email back? Or, and I kind of hope this is still the case, is there some old. old school fax machine involved. It reminded me of the old wrestling with shadows documentary from the 90s where Brett Hart is racing the clock and literally standing over a fax machine as his WCW contract feeds through.

And now I can't get the image out of my head of DeVorex standing in Zegress's kitchen, either hitting send on docusign or watching a fax slowly spit out at midnight. Love the pod. Let's go flyers. Go birds. That's a great question. Well, I mean, you see it. A lot of teams actually print them out and the guy signs it, right?

Right. Certainly during the season because everyone's there in that city. So you'll see photos or videos of player signing contract, general manager signing contract in person. But this is more in the off season, July 1, free agency deals. You know, typically what happens is you know there will be a verbal agreement that the, agent will inform his player. This is the offer from the team. If the player accepts, agent lets the team know. And, you know, likely when it gets announced or you break the story that X player has signed with X team may not have been an actual official signing on a

dotted line yet. And it just kind of depends. I asked somebody today about DocuSign. He goes, I don't think I've seen DocuSign yet, but usually, you know, a team will, if they're virtual, email the contract to the player and whether they use their own program that allows them to sign it digitally or they'll print it out, sign it in pen, scan it, which is, I mean, you can do with your phone nowadays and send it back that way. Typically, it's how it happens. But I don't think any fax machines are you steady. more. No, I do remember there's a couple of situations over the years, and I can't remember any specific ones off the top of my head, but I know there were situations like this where someone would be on vacation and you'd hear, get, they'd get a call and they'd be like, get to a Kinko's. For those of you who were too young, Kinkos was a copy center. We don't have these things

anymore, but get to a Kinko's or get to somewhere that has a fax machine. I used to work at Radio Shack, and there were times people would come in and they would say, can we have a document fed to you on your fax machine? Like other stores in the mall, can we use your fax machine? So I've seen this kind of thing before. This is another example of how old I am. I got my swim trunks and my flippy floppies. I'm flipping burgers. You at Kinko's straight flipping copies.

I'm on a boat, a lonely island. That's the only other time I heard the term kinkos. That's great. Radio Shack, that's right. Once upon a time you were there. Yes. And then of course. There's a great story and there's,

I know that some of the people I work with the Radio Shack listen to the pod, and they are wondering if I am going to tell this story. So I'm going to. There was one time when I was on staff, Kyle, where the fax machine got stolen while I was working. Wow. Yeah. That's hard to do.

Well, they distracted me. Like, it got busy. A few people came in. And they realized it later. It was all part of an elaborate plan that fooled 18-year-old Elliot Friedman. Dom just wrote Oceans 14. Yeah. Was George Clutie and Brad Pitt in your face?

Is that how you got distracted? I don't remember the faces. I don't remember who it was, but there's no question. They were definitely the kind of attracted people that would thrill me for a loop or distract me from my job. But it was a day where, and I remember parts of it,

it was suddenly very busy, unusually busy for a weekday. And I remember my boss came back and he goes, where's the fax machine? And I go, what? It's right back there. And he goes, where's the fax machine? And then I just did this look of horror on my face.

And he couldn't believe it. And I worked at a previous radio shack. They transferred me to one closer to my home. And Marvin was the name of the manager at the one I was at. And Doug was at the one I used to be at. And the phone rang. And Doug called like three hours later. Larry says, Elliot, I go, yeah, he goes, I hear you have fax machines available.

And they were making fun of me. And I felt terrible. I felt awful. Like, first of all, you feel really bad because you were on the receiving end. As they said to me later, this will be a great lesson for you that you learned at 18 years old, which is true, that people are out to scam you or fool of you and you better be on alert. That's definitely true. But I felt horrible about it.

Oh, man. The fax machine fiend. Yes. Critical part of adolescent friege. And at that time, those things were big, man. Yeah, there was a lot of value behind those things. Oh, gosh, that's great. Okay.

Ezekiel from Reno, Nevada. Elliot and Friends. Maybe acquaintances is a better way to phrase. that. Ezekiel, you know the proper way to do this. Also true. You may have missed it, but this season has a condensed schedule due to it being an Olympic year. Yes. Injuries are stacking up across the league, and I keep seeing the blame being aimed

at the chaotic schedule. Many have proposed moving the start and finish of the season left and right to fix the issue, but has anyone proposed making no changes? What if the Olympics were treated as a wartime draft where the fittest of the fit are called upon to serve their country and the rest of the league simply has to pick up the slack and muck it out without their stars for a few weeks. Imagine all the wild storylines this would create from player breakouts and unexpected call-ups. Maybe this is the solution we're all looking for. Cheers, gentlemen. Keep up the great work. Interesting. Different. Ezekiel, I always appreciate different thinking. What do you think, Kyle?

In theory, I'm very open to it. I can understand the league not being psyched about three weeks without their best players. It's not going to happen, but I like Ezekiel. First of all, you're a genius because you called the podcast, Elliot and Friends or Elliot and acquaintances. It just shows that your head is in the right place. I like the different thinking. Never happens, but I'm always interested in. and people who look at the world uniquely. Yeah, that could be fun. And then they return when they all come back. It's a big seller. Everyone's waving their hats. Like the ship.

Yeah, exactly. Stand to the shore. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Okay, one more here. Paul from Ontario. Hello to Kyle, Dom, and everyone who prepares Elliot for this brilliant podcast.

He's the anti- Long list. Long list. Paul's the anti-Ezekiel. I just wanted to thank Elliot for finally taking the blame for not questioning Kevin B.XA about being anonymous and not. We have him next week. Next week at Hockey Day in Canada. So we will get after it then.

Yes. So he thanks you for taking the blame and not blaming it on Kyle or Dom, which, to me was surprising. No. I know I like to blame them for a lot of stuff, and they deserve it. But that one was on me. That's my fault. Okay.

My question, though, today is about suspensions during best-on-best tournaments. I need some clarity on international discipline. If a player gets suspended in the Olympics or the upcoming World Cup, does that follow them back to their NHL club. Is there a formal handshake between the double IHF and the NHL or is it a complete vagus situation where what happens

in international play stays in international play? Thanks for your time. Keep up the good work. Go, Leafs, go. No, it does not carry over. It's kind of like what happened earlier this year was Scott Sabrin from the HL and the NHL. Saburn was suspended four

games after what happened in the preseason between the Panthers and the lightning, he was allowed to play A HL games and he got called up to serve his suspension in the NHL. So they don't all these different leagues, the NHL, the HL, the HL, and the double IHF,

they are different jurisdictions. Now, the one thing I was reminded about is that the NHL apparently has indicated that if there's something that is

particularly egregious, they have the right to review it. So I guess if anything really bad happened, the NHL could say we're holding a hearing ourselves and that we can come up with our own penalty, but say if the double IHF suspends someone, they don't necessarily, the NHL doesn't necessarily have to adhere to it.

Like you'll remember a few years ago, Jose Theodore was caught taking propitiated. or whatever it was, right? And something that was in that product was on the IOC band list. So he was banned from international competition, but it didn't prevent him from playing in the NHL. So they don't have to, but I've been told the NHL has some sort of carve out

that allows them to say, look, we can review these things if we want to. All right, very good. Paul, thank you for that. And we will leave it there. If you would like to submit anything to the thought line, you can do so by emailing us at 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. Or you can leave a voicemail at 1833, 311, 3213.32. We'll take another break and come back with our interview with Ryan Smith, owner of the Utah Mammoth, Salt Lake City, the site of the 2027 Winter Classic.

That's on the other side on 32 Thoughts of the podcast. As promised, our conversation with Ryan Smith, the owner of the Utah Mammoth. Now, Ryan is someone you may have heard on this program in the past. Last time he would have been on 32 Thoughts would have been shortly after he became an owner of an NHL franchise in Utah. Since then, what has he done? Well, let's see. He has done a rapid retrofitting of the Delta Center that was previously just built to host his Utah Jazz NBA franchise. Now it has the ability to host hockey. They came up with a team name,

originally Utah Hockey Club, now the mammoth. They built an incredible state-of-the-art practice facility in what felt like record time that has gone over with rave reviews to the players and everybody in the organization. And most recently this week, they have been awarded the site for the 2027 Winter Classic. at the University of Utah at Rice Eccles Stadium. So all of this to say, we were due for a catch-up. Here's Ryan Smith, the owner of the Utah Mammoth on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Ryan Smith, owner of Utah Mammoth and you and your wife Ashley,

the head of Smith Entertainment Group. Welcome back to 32 Thoughts, first of all. And I know over the last couple of days here since the announcement of hosting the Winter Classic in 2027, it has been pointed out that, I mean, it hasn't even been two, years yet and all of that you have accomplished to this point with this franchise in Salt Lake City. I mean, you seem to have a glutton for busy. Like, how have you managed all of this to this point?

Well, yeah, I think it's, it is a little, I don't know, it might be a sickness. I mean, we, first of all, we work pretty hard. Like, I think our whole group does. And, you know, I think if we've hired the right profile of people, there are people who want to do big things and kind of take moonshots. Normally that's like a term in tech, but I think, you know, we, we dream big. We want to go and is pretty mission driven. Like, I think we all want to work on something that's mission driven and to be able to bring stuff to a state that we love and a community that we love, it kind of gets you fired up in the morning to go and

kind of lay it all out there. And so we have a great group of people that are willing to go do that. And I think with those ingredients, you know, good stuff can be done. So let's take us through this. One of the interesting things that Bettman talked about the other day was that even before you knew you had the team, you talked to him about an outdoor game. Could we do one of those? Take us through that.

Could there have been a scenario where Utah had an outdoor game before it had an NHL team? Yeah, I mean, I think when we were starting, kind of everything was on the table. I think people, you know, I think they listen, but they might not understand fully until you get the color of it that like there was no guarantee we would get a team in January two years ago. And so what we were trying to do was really kind of test out this concept of hockey in Utah. I mean, no one really knew that we would be doing the Arizona thing. If we were going to have an expansion team, for example, and we're fortunate enough to go through that process, well, maybe in the holdover, the time until we waited until we got our house in order,

we could do some sort of a moment. Because what we do know is, you know, the Olympics are going to be played at the Delta Center. We do know that winter sports are here. It's not like that's that far-fetched of a request to say, hey, let's do an outdoor game here and see if it all works. That would have made sense from the NHL standpoint. And early on, when we got, you know, we had a couple of these moments, you know, opening night. We kind of didn't take our eye off that ball a little bit where it was, let's get everyone up to the University of Utah

and show the NHL why you're out here what this could possibly look like. And looking back, that was pretty smart because they couldn't really unsee it. I mean, a crazy idea, a little push, them kind of going along with, you know, it's almost like when they came to you, everything was new. So they didn't know really where they were going.

And we were able to kind of shepherd it all through. Now, though, as I look at where we sit now, if I'm either doing an expansion team or a new team in a new market, it's actually crazy not to have an outdoor game in the first couple years to help build the momentum of hockey in that area. And what's clear is these games have been a celebration for most places, a little bit of a reward, you deserve it. But if we're thinking about and putting our hats on of we're going to grow the game,

actually the use of an outdoor game might be a different tool. It might be getting the region involved in a different way, more educational, which I think we're going to get. get a little bit of both. We're going to get a celebration, but the amount of people that are even going to know what an outdoor game is for the first time is going to be at a record high.

Hmm. Wow. So that initial site survey at that, or visit at least, at Rice Eccles State, which at the University of Utah, as you mentioned where this game's going to be. Like, you took members of the NHL there before being granted the franchise.

Am I hearing you right there? It was around the same time. those early franchise moments when we were there. And by the way, we had gone to the Olympic Oval where we had our first practice facility. I mean, that was a big piece of this when they came in. You know, they came out of kind of an arena debacle in Arizona. And when we launched the new franchise, it was like, okay, how do we guarantee we're not going into the similar situation? And so we definitely went on the prom date of all things Utah all the way around. You know?

Was it a good prom date or a bad prom date? Hey, I think it ended pretty well. That's outstanding. The thing that really stood out to me listening to you over the past couple days, Ryan, and doing all this, is that whenever a team goes into a league, you know, there's things that are going to go right, there's things that are going to go wrong. It seems like there's been much more right than wrong with Utah. The league's obviously thrilled with you.

Are you as happy with everything that's happened for you since you got in? Yeah, I mean, a lot's gone wrong with us. Maybe it just is the course of sports. Like I know that in sports a couple times a year, you know, stuff goes really wrong for every team and every organization. It's just the nature that we're in where holding it together for 82 games or with the fans. Like, we're in the business of this. I mean, it's literally a little bit of a war of attrition. It's like, can you hang out through that?

So we don't feel internally like, hey, this has just been high into the right. It's almost been like, you know, we go and then, you know, we're going up and then we slam into a ceiling or a wall. And then we almost have to slide over and adjust and do it again. And maybe from the outside, it looks like it's going a little bit more like that. But internally, like we're dealing with the problems and the challenges. and, you know, the first night, do the risers even work and go up in our new arena? And, oh, my gosh, like, they don't. But people don't really see that, right?

And so on that front, that's probably what I would say is, like, you know, none of this has come without its challenges, right? but when a group of people are pretty determined on an amazing outcome, they typically rise to that. That's why I'm probably not worried about hockey in Milan right now. They're going to figure it out. We can all sit and waste our energy on it. I promise they're going to figure it out, right? There's a group of people over there that are,

they'll all get together and scramble and cram for the test, and the next thing you know, there's ice and people in the seats and everyone's going to be happy and they'll be focused on the game, right? It's a little bit how this happens. Now, when it comes to the league and being in the NHL and doing this, I think, look, I don't think any professional sport is perfect. I mean, we could go to college football right now in the NCAA and we're going to have what we love about it. And boy, are those cons really long right now of everything that's going on, right? You can go to the NBA.

You can go to the NFL and there's issues or MLB. And I think what I, and it's interesting because we had a very, very candid conversation with Gary and Steve yesterday as we were sitting around just having lunch. And they asked me straight up, like, what can we improve on? You're two years in. What is it? What are your biggest surprises? What's gone well? and like what like are you worried about?

And I think what I'm, you know, and I don't really hold back. I was like, hey, look, this gone well, this gone well, this got well. Here's what I'd be focused on the future. You know, media and television and watchability of the game is obviously my top, is you're educating an entire fan. I think we can have a lot more innovation. If you look what we've done on the Dasher boards where they're hyper-local and they're this, It's like, okay, what is the equivalent of that on the ice for a new fan who hasn't watched the game before, right?

And you see the impact when you pull those people in with like four nations. Like we shouldn't be talking about four nations still. We should be talking about, you know, the next five events that have already happened because the usability of that is easier. Those are world-class problems to have because you have this opportunity to educate this entirely new fan base. you've got a global game. Everything that I have to talk about with the NHL is just growth, growth, growth, growth. How is it? And all I see is opportunity.

And that's what's exciting. If you look at what the teams are about, what they stand for, hockey culture, the stories behind the seat, how they actually support each other. It's invigorating. These are lessons you want to teach your kids. it's the purest form of what we all say sports does. And I think there's a need in community, and the reason why sports are having this incredible moment, the reason why these live events are having a moment they've never had,

and I can go through and explain our businesses, we have a very unique seat where we see a lot of different things. They bring people together. They let him come as families or friends and forget about life for a while. I'm sitting on the glass last night with Gary Bettman and myself and Benson Boone. And it's like, what did Benson Boone and Gary Betman? But watching those guys talk and Benson being not on tour right now and shooting the T-shirt cannon just for fun and wanting to get out on the ice and like that's what sports are about and having those conversations. And so I think the opportunity in the NHL, and I think the NHL is getting better at it, to tell these stories, to show these stories, these Olympics, everyone's looking forward to it, right?

It's because the storyline of the athlete. But I think there's this other story that I'm explaining to Benson last night that when, you know, it's two minutes for this penalty, but if there's blood, it's more. He lost his mind. He's like, that's the coolest rule in all of sports. No way. Right. And so I think there's this whole audience that, and we've seen this in Utah, they're invigorated by hockey.

I always say it's the thing that they found in their life that they didn't know they needed so bad. And that's pretty exciting. I'm curious, I want to take that a bit farther. I like I love everything you just said. Was there anything specific that you told the commissioner and Steve Mayer that this is what I want to see done first or this is what I want to see done long term? No. No, it was more of, you know, we were on the Dasher board discussion. And I think it was like, look at the art of the possible there.

and like I said, we're just sitting from a unique, I mean, this is a total non-answer, but we're sitting from a unique standpoint and we're going through it every day and we're watching this reaction of new consumers every single day with a hockey product. And watch them almost do it. I feel like a little bit, like we're sitting behind a glass

with a new widget or phone or something and we're watching how a consumer interacts with it from the first time. And what they're noticing and this and that. And so I think it's a real, you know, I come from a background of tech where Qualtricks, you know, we're the largest survey company in the world. So we would gather feedback. And typically when someone's gathering feedback, they're trying to understand something that they don't have an answer to. Or something outside.

they're trying to run their conclusion or their behavior based on something outside of their world. And that's what we're getting to see. Like outside of the hockey world, traditional hockey world, what is that feedback? How are they interacting? And, you know, human behavior is an interesting thing. We're watching this real time with media. If you look at, you know, what we've done on our television, you know, we went two years ago to stand up our own broadcast. We did the NASCAR with Tyson Nash.

We're watching all of these new things because, you know, do we know it's going to work? We do one video with our fans and our players with like Dylan Gunther and Jack McBain, where they're doing a home tour that's like MTV Cribs back in the day. And it goes, there's now commercials in our market of like them replicating that for, companies who have paid these guys to go do it, right? And then we do another one that takes 90 hours of our group that has 137 people to watch it. And we're like, okay. And it's a little bit of this, this is what everyone has to work on.

So I don't know. It's just our world and human and consumer behavior. I find all this stuff really fascinating, really interesting. Right. It's a unique seat to sit in when you're birthing something from scratch to an instant fan base. And I think that's a little bit why Gary is out here kind of watching. It's the ultimate test kitchen for them because there is no culture that comes with it from the past. It's all met new.

So what are your fans tell you that they like? What do they like about hockey? or don't like I mean well so little things like the music and like what is old like what should that vibe be

the the in arena experience is is interesting you know the player interaction before and after the games um

the you know I think I think a lot of You know, we talked a lot about watching. Gary and I actually walked around the concourse last night before the game. So we're 15 to 20 minutes before puck drop. And we just did two laps around so that we both. And he could see the fans and watch them come in.

what are they wearing? What are they buying? We went to the team store. We're watching this. And, you know, we're all doing it from the vantage point that we were all sitting up there with none of it, you know, two years ago. Like, what happens when you actually put the people and the community into it? And so I think, I think it's, it's interesting. And what I'm, what I respect about Gary is he'll listen and he's in learning mode here with, the same way we are. And so I think it's, I think it's, it's, it's, it's pretty cool. But yeah, fans will, fans will tell us a lot. I mean, we're all in there. We're all fans. We all see it.

But, you know, I don't think there's anything that really sticks out because typically, you know, if it's something we can change and will change, we try to do it pretty quickly. So how has the mammoth name and logo resonated in the market? it to this point from your vantage point. I mean, when we first did that fan survey, I remember going on McAfee, and McAfee was like, Pat was like, you're what, you're doing a vote on the internet? Do you know what it's like out there?

You're really going to throw it out there? It's brutal. And I was like, I know we're crazy. And there were times where I was like, I have screwed this up so, bad. Like honestly, internally in my heart, I was like, I knew it was like 50% of a good idea, but like there's no way we should have just gone out to the public because it'd be like designing something with everyone. It's too much. But what was crazy is, you know, and I don't know if it's, I still have a lot of faith in humanity, but our community took us right to the

mammoth and the launch of it and the history of Utah with those mammoth and how it all came to life. And then little things like the tuss up, it's just kind of old. And then the color scheme just works. And then the reveal of Tuscy. I mean, I might have had a little regret in the process. but we had a lot of faith in our fans and our community. And they took us there. So it's been received about as perfect as anything you could do.

And launching a new brand and a logo of anything that people care about publicly, it's like politician. I mean, you might as well have 60, 40 or 5149 who are 4. It's like on anything. And, you know, if you have. had a team and you change the logo right now or you change it. I mean, it's a daunting process. But to have something launch like that from the community, have them excited about it,

it was kind of this moment where it's like, okay, we got the team, we got the brand, it's been embraced, check, check, check, let's all go. And it almost said like, we are for real. like we're in it this year, especially after last year was kind of like everyone was wondering, you know, first year testing. There was so many news. There was almost too many first. And then coming in and having this, it really kind of cemented the brand.

This is who we are. You know, your sweater that you just bought, like, keep it because that's what it's going to be for a long time. Ryan, I wonder, like, as an owner, how much do you get involved in the hockey decision? or the hockey conversations. Like Utah's right there. You're battling for a playoff spot. I can only imagine how much you want to introduce the Stanley Cup playoffs to the, to the, your fan base. And just how much do you get involved in those conversations?

You know, I talk to Chris Armstrong every day. Kind of the way that we're set up is definitely is, you know, Bill kind of reports up to Chris. And Chris keeps me informed. but it's not really that way because it's way more of us collaborating. I know enough to be super dangerous. As do most owners, like, to be honest with you,

like part of your job as an owner has to be to hire really smart people and get the hell out of the way. And, you know, if my job is three or four really big decisions a year, then things are going to, really well. You know, I'm not going to be the best person in the room to look at how we improve the fourth line and, and who we've got. And, you know, you have decisions like Gunther and Kuhly that are

pretty straightforward, right? And then you've got other ones where, you know, it really takes some scar tissue to understand how to navigate all of that. And so the great part is, is like, I am in the details. I am learning as fast as I possibly can. So it's not like I'm absent from them. I know every single thing that's going on. I know all of the players well. I know where we're at.

I'm probably just not as sure of my own decision-making when it comes to as I will be in five years. And that's right. I mean, I asked Gary last night, I said, Gary, when you came over from the NBA to hockey, how much did you know? Were you a fan? Were you?

Because we're talking hockey there at the game. Like, I'm two years in, and I feel like my learning curve's been incredible. But, you know, I'm not where I want to be. That being said, there are just some general business to start. and player personnel decisions that are universal across sports. When it comes to building a human salary cap,

that's not any decision than I'm having with Danny and Austin, Aange on the other side. There's general communication with coaching that is universal across sports. There are coaches in the NHL that could probably jump in an executive role in another sport and probably have a similar effect because it's called leadership, you know? And so I think that there is some very specific things

where, you know, when it comes to diagnosing a win or a loss, especially in the NHL right now, I mean, I don't know what the stat is. It's 52, 60% of games are within one point in the third. Mm-hmm. Diagnosing that for someone like me is super complex. Because you're like, oh, it looked like we played really well except for like two minutes when the ice was tilting against us like that, right? Like, that's what it, like, that's different than some sports.

Not all sports are that hard to diagnose. Mm-hmm. And you've just got to stay with it and stay with it and stay with it. Or, you know, a weird penalty or, you know, a tip or deflection of a puck that goes past the goal. Like, it's a little more obvious in other sports when there's momentum of why. And I think that's also a strength of hockey because anything can happen. That's why if you make the playoffs, like anything can happen. Other sports, you know, if you're in the playing tournament and the NBA,

I think the odds might be a little bit more against you that you're going to win at all. Right? Or better yet, if you're in the wild card in the NFL, like it's, you know, like there's a little bit less than anything can happen at any time. And I think that's the beauty of hockey, too. Mm-hmm. So you're going back to the conversations you're having with Gary Betman just the other night. I was curious, you've been on the NBA scene for a few years now with the jazz coming up on two years in the NHL.

When it comes to the dynamic and personalities of owners and the commissioner in both leagues, what's similar? What's different? Hmm. Well, there's a group of, there's a group that. crossover. And I think that's definitely helpful, whether it's the Kronkies who I'm pretty close with, and Larry Tanenbaum, Jim Dolan, as well as, you know, Tom Dunden, who's now coming the other way, where he's coming into the NBA. And, you know, I tend to talk a little bit more to some of those folks, right? Right. Right.

You know, Tom will call me or when he was looking at the trailblazers, we talked quite a bit. And we've known each other for a long time, even before sports. And I think I don't know as many of the other hockey owners as I would like to, obviously, are the groups. And I think that just takes a little bit of time. So, but, you know, there's different makeups. I mean, if you think of you look in the NBA, the last three years, we've actually had a completely shift into, you know, five or six new governors and ownership groups to a little bit of a younger, whether, you know, I came in, then Matt Ishpia and you've got Rick and Gabe and Charlotte.

You know, the wrestlers were right before me. So you've got kind of a newer tenure of owners and ownership groups. It seems in the NHL that these are a little more legacy groups who have been in for a long time, either through family or, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It's probably more like the NFL, right? Mm-hmm. So, I mean, I think the key with both groups is that you aren't afraid to keep trying new things and specifically, you know, innovate with the future, even though you might fail a little bit. And I think that's on all of us because we're not dealing with static environments outside of hockey and basketball, you know, and,

You know, whether it's prediction markets, whether it's all, all these different things. And AI, like with AI, where's our, where's our point of view? Who are we partnering with? Are we going to hire a bunch of engineers and try to improve the game experience ourselves? Can we work on, you know, refereeing and, you know, being more accurate. And, you know, that's a hard balance of what's sacred and what's not, you know, within the games. And I think everyone's got, everyone's got to do that in sports, primarily because there's not a business who's relevant in the world. It's not asking themselves those same questions.

And I just don't understand why sports would be exempt from that. Push the boundaries. I think a lot of people want to see you push the boundaries. Well, I only, I've got, we've got our own test kitchen here in Utah, which is good because we don't, it's good and bad. but it's it's primarily good because we don't have, we're not pulling in our wake, a lot of tradition up to this point. And tradition is incredible.

You're trying to build that and establish that, and that becomes part of your culture. However, when you don't have it, it also is free because you're able to organically develop some things where you look back and you're like, how did that come about? Oh, it was one fan or two fans? or whatever it is.

And so it seems like the community can do that and, you know, especially a younger group. My last one for you. So we're not doing this with video, but behind you, you have a gigantic shoe wall, sneaker wall. It's spectacular. I want to know what is the prize Ryan Smith sneaker. There's four prize sneakers up there. Hit me. Let's hear them.

People would want to know this. We had a player in the NBA, Ricky Rubio, whose mom passed away with cancer, and we traded for him. And we launched a cancer research philanthropy called Five for the Fight. It was actually how I got in the NBA. And he did a jazz shoe with Five for the Fight on it for Cancer Awareness Night. And it's one of the coolest things in the world. And we've become like super close.

I was actually just over in Spain visiting Ricky. because he's an unbelievable human. We have a player named Roy So-Neill, who puts Simba on his shoe. I think those are pretty cool. Dwayne Wade's, one of our partners. Yep. And Wade's laying shoes that have come out. This is like an incredible hoop shoe.

And then when we were looking at hosting the NBA All-Star, I was down in L.A. and met with Travis Scott, who was saying, hey, I want to come do something in Utah. And I was pitching him on Utah. And he's like, actually, I love Utah. I'm there all the time. I snowboard. I do this.

And, you know, he gave me, like, one of the new pairs of Travis shoes. And I thought that one was pretty cool. So, and then he ended up coming and performing an All-Star and doing, you know, a Cactus Jack collab and opening all that up. And so those are. trying to think if there's anything else those are pretty like unique you don't you don't realize

like how a lot of you have a story yeah right I'm a big golfer so a lot of this side is golf right and then those are some from All Star yeah it's it's weird I mean there's a pair of Mike Conley

shoes it's more of for whatever reason I like to collect shoes or I wouldn't throw them out. So my wife, we do not have closet space. And then that wall, I was like a big, empty wall with a TV on it. And I had this idea where if you could build a little porch for each one, you're cool. I feel like I'm in foot locker. It's fantastic. Yeah.

Yeah. But I do need to put, I've got some states coming. Nice. Okay. Yeah, we're going to have some skates up there so that we can, we can do it. That was a new idea that I think is really good. Nice. Were you on the call with Gary when he was the one that talked about that?

No, I was not there. So what did he say? Yeah, Gary's like, I need skates. I was like, that is a brilliant idea. We were on a zoo. It's a little by the one. Who knows? Awesome.

All you needed was a foot in the door and it's been incredibly impressive what you've done since that moment, Ryan. So congratulations on getting the winner classic. We're in it. We had a good win last night. Boy, that was a chippy game. Holy cow.

It got nasty, but it was good. Nasty hockey is the best hockey. Oh, my word. I never apologized for good goaltending. One guy took a hit. And then it was all on for the next, you know, 15 minutes. Like every, you couldn't see, you couldn't look enough because every board was rattling, you know. One of the best sounds in sports, the board giving way.

All right. Thanks so much, Ryan. All right, take care. Our thanks once again to Ryan Smith and the Utah Mammoth for making that conversation happen. Really enjoyed listening to him. And we hope you all did too. Our gratitude to all of you for taking a few hours out of your day to listen to us once again. Couple of heads up this weekend for your scheduling purposes on Saturday afternoon 3.30 Eastern,

130 Mountain Time. The Calgary Flames continue their road trip into Pittsburgh. That can be seen nationally on sports and it should almost lead perfectly right into hockey central Saturday at 630 Eastern with Ron McLean and company. Three early games again this Saturday, including an all. Canadian clash, the Vancouver Canucks and the Toronto Maple Leafs from Scotia Bank Arena and downtown TEO. The Detroit Red Wings are in Montreal. The Florida Panthers are in Ottawa to face the Sends. That one on SportsNet 1. The late game this weekend. The L.A. Kings in Edmonton to face the Oilers, Drew Doughty. This week's guest on After Hours with Scott Oak and Louis DeBrusk.

You always know you're getting a blunt, honest, funny, or all of the above. answer from Drew Dowdy whenever he's sitting down for an interview. So you're going to want to stick around for after hours this week. As always, appointment viewing was Scott Oak & Company. Okay, taking us out today is a track from Mikkel, who is the artist's name of Montreal-based singer-songwriter Mickey Green. Following a two-year hiatus, her latest release, Need It, is her preferred introduction to her music.

She is currently working as a photographer in the city, which she balances with being a full-time Habs fan. This track, along with all the others, we have featured here on this podcast this season, can be found on the 32 Thoughts the music playlist on Spotify. Here is McKell and Need It on 32 Thoughts the podcast. Have a great weekend.