32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Craig Berube Hit His Expiry Date

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

Jeff and Elliotte dive into the coaching change in St. Louis that saw Craig Berube lose his job as the head coach of the Blues. They also talk about the comments made afterwards by Jordan Kyrou and the sour reception he received Thursday night from Blues fans. Jeff and Elliotte also talk about Roberto Luongo being inducted into the Canucks' Ring of Honour and the whole night that went with it (17:35). They dove into Toronto's comeback against the Blue Jackets, only to fall short in OT (23:25). They talk Chris O'Hearn parting ways with the Minnesota Wild and what they have been able to put together so far (31:40). Elliotte provides an update on Shane Pinto's return to play with the Ottawa Senators (36:09), and gives his thoughts on the NHL's revamped Skills Competition at this season's All Star Weekend (48:08). They wrap the podcast by talking about Sidney Crosby's MVP calibre season thus far (1:08:11).The guys answer your questions in the Montana’s Thought Line (51:52).Audio Credits: Bally Sports Midwest Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Montana's Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

That was a fantastic argument. Who do you think is right? I hate to say it, but Jeff. Oh my God, Dom. That's your open. You are no longer immortal. Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts to Podcast. As always, presented by the GMC Sierra,

Merrick alongside Friedman and Dom Schrammati, our producer. We have a lot to get to. A very busy Thursday night around the NHL and a pretty newsy day as well. But let's start with the news of the week that carried into Thursday night and saw the St. Louis Blues beat the Ottawa Senators 4-2. But before we get to that game,

and congratulations to Drew Bannister, his first win as a head coach in the NHL, your thoughts on the Craig Berube situation, Elliot? We haven't had a chance on this podcast to talk about it. Surprise many, if not everybody, when the news came down after the Detroit Red Wings loss that Berube was dismissed as head coach of the St. Louis Blues. Your thoughts on this one after a couple of days, I suppose, to digest all of it? Well, let's be fresh. Let's go with the latest story first i i think that's the best and that is jordan kairu and and the booing of him on thursday night so are you good with that

for me to start there you can start wherever you want there's a number of different entry points in this story so let's start with with kairu when i read kairu's quote online on thursday morning where he's where he was asked about berube and he said i've got no comment he's not my coach anymore you know who the first person was i thought of who's that did you ever watch the wayans brothers or In Living Color? Not frequently, but I did watch In Living Color, yes. Did you know who Fire Marshal Bill was? Yes, of course, Jim Carrey. Yes, and what did Fire Marshal Bill always say whenever he was about to blow up a room

or anything like that? Uh-oh. That was my reaction when i saw kairu's quote my reaction was uh-oh because i knew that was going to be a problem like like the thing is maybe some blues fans had gotten frustrated with berube but the moment he was fired, Doug Armstrong nailed this in his media conference. The moment he was fired, he wasn't Craig Berube, coach of the struggling Blues anymore. He was Craig Berube, the guy who coached us to the Stanley Cup, the only one in our franchise history after 52 years. And no matter what was happening this season, in the eyes of the Blues faithful,

Craig Berube was now a man to be remembered with that great legacy. And, you know, you know, here's the thing about Kairou. I have a friend who always tells me his goal every day is to not be that guy on the internet and you know i in my career have been that guy on the internet once or twice and he looks at me and he says i do not want to be you when you are in that spot and i kind of laugh about it it's not easy in the moment but laugh about it it's not easy in the moment but you you your skin toughens up and and you move on right so Jordan Cairo you look at his career he's a really good player um he's been he was a good junior player he was a team Canada player he's been a good player in St. Louis he just got signed to a great deal and good for him but he you know what jeff he's never been that guy on the internet before like even on like the teams he's played on in the situations he's been in he's never sort of

been the guy on the spotlight he's been an important guy um he's been a core guy but he's sort of never been the number one person who you look to and say that's the guy on the blues and then that day because of one short sentence on Thursday all of a sudden for the first time in maybe his life he is that guy he's that guy on the blues and he's that guy on the internet so you know he even talked about it he talks about in the post game about how he goes to sleep for his daily nap and he wakes up and it's exploded and he did not know how to deal with it and then the fans start booing him and you saw how emotional he got in the post game and he broke down I mean it's just tough right like you, I love playing here, so it's just

tough to hear the fans booing me there. That's right. They'll obviously come around. I mean, they know you want to be here, play hard and produce for them. I mean, do you feel like, you know, it's just a bump in the road that it can be overcome and they'll love you again? Yeah, definitely. I mean, you know, like I said, I just want to focus on my future and focus on, you know, trying to be a more complete player and, you know, what I can do to help the team win, right? So, yeah, that's just my goal right now.

Now, I think there's a lesson to be learned here, and the lesson is, you know, look, like, I think number one, the lesson is when Berube was fired, the first player I thought of was Cairo. And I said this, I think, on my NHL Network hit because it was pretty common knowledge. And if you follow the Blues at all, you knew that the relationship between Berube and Cairo wasn't easy.

And it doesn't mean that Berube hated Kairou or anything like that. It's just that Berube felt that Kairou had to be a tougher player to play against for the Blues to be successful. And they didn't always connect. And, you know, did they butt heads? Absolutely. Did Berube butt heads? Absolutely. Did Berube mean well? Absolutely.

Did Kairou always understand that Berube meant well, but it was his way of teaching hard? I'm sure he didn't always see it that way. And then in that moment, he dropped the ball on his quote, and then look what happened and he's he's never had to handle anything like that before and now that it's over and he apologized and got emotional i think everybody will move on i think there will be a lesson to people um you know the the tough thing about this as i always say from a media point of view, is I always say, Jeff, if we're going to call them boring,

we can't be upset when they tell the truth. And Kyrou, on Thursday morning, he told the truth. And he got kind of burned by it because he wasn't expecting that reaction. I think the lesson is, I bet you a lot of young players are going to look at that and say I better have something to say I think this is going to boil over I think this is going to move on I think the way Kyra reacted in the post game

will make the Blues fans understand that he really does care and he's sensitive to their feelings I just think there's going to their feelings i just think there's going to be a lot of young players and maybe a lot of veteran players are going to look at this in the future and say i better have something better to say than that even if i didn't get along with the coach 100 of the time now that was the story on thursday the other big story of the thursday is drew bannister with his first career nhl win congratulations there for two over the ottawa senators um in a pretty spirited game robert thomas scores a pair of goals there was a a really old school dust up between oh my god

talker and brady kachuk holy smokes and the kachuk families in attendance and it's uh it's technically a road game for brady kach, but he's home, he's in St. Louis. Whenever Otto was losing, Jeff, like three or four to one. I know, Brady Kachuk, I know. Okay, I'm looking at him like, oh, his head's about to explode. It's the fight when Otto was down two or three goals late in the game. You know it's coming. He's an old school player.

He is a total beautiful throwback hockey player. Brady Kachuk is. So no surprise there. But listen, all of this was under the umbrella of Craig Berube's not there anymore. There's a new coach and it's a coach that has the interim tag.

We're used to that in St. Louis. Craig Berube himself had the interim tag. But just your thoughts on a crazy week in St. Louis with the Blues, the coaching situation, the Doug Armstrong press conference, I think had some twists and some turns and some interesting introspection by Doug Armstrong. I think a lot of us were surprised when he talked about, if I looked at where the Blues were when I took over to where we are now.

I don't see us as much difference. And like, there's a lot of really. When you take over a team, you want to leave it better than when you found it. Yeah. I don't think I'm saying that right now. Yeah. It's like a lot of things that we don't normally hear from a general manager we heard in that press conference what did you make of the week that was in st louis

i i think armstrong was pretty honest like the one thing i really liked about that blues group when they won the cup uh that year in 19 was it was a pretty blunt group armstrong is blunt barube is blunt. You know, the people they had behind the scenes, like Keith Kachok worked for the organization then, Al McInnes worked for the organization then. Larry Plow was around the organization then. They're all really blunt guys, really blunt people.

And they considered that one of their strengths they used to talk about their meetings where the truth got told whether you could handle it or not and that's kind of the way jeff that i prefer things myself um you know i want to throw bob plager in there too yeah bob plager in there like you know i remember when i was early in my broadcasting career i was told i wasn't good looking enough to be on television now i know everybody listening to this cannot believe that anything like that could ever be said to me knowing i am a 56 out of 10 and wow and the the tom cruise of sports reporters twisted steel and sex appeal let's go that's me 200 pounds of twisted steel and sex appeal and but but for me i've always preferred that i've always wanted that and

like that's one thing i liked about talking to people in that organization was they were always that way too you got the truth whether you liked it or not barube delivered it to the players and armstrong delivered it in general and he did and he did you know i i he did he said a lot of really interesting things on thursday basically about you know they lost three games in a row to undermanned teams columbus chicago and detroit and and he basically said if those guys are like i can't believe we we beat these guys because we're short-handed and we played last night and they didn't you know he basically said i can't believe we we beat these guys because we're shorthanded and we played last night and they didn't you know he basically said i couldn't stand watching what i was seeing anymore and you

know the one thing i really believe about berube is you know i think that if i was a player and god knows i'm not but i think if i was a player i would that's the kind of guy I would like playing for. Because, look, I know in life what I do well and I don't do well, and I don't need a lot of people to tell me that. But sometimes I do need a kick in the ass. And Berube is that kind of person. The challenge with coaches like that is that they run out of of time like you eventually you reach if someone nags you all the time or someone is on your tail all the time jeff you get tired of hearing it

that's why both our wives hate us because they cannot stand listening to us anymore but i i really do think the people i talked to about what happened in St. Louis, most of them said to me, Craig Berube just hit his expiry date. He pushed them and he pushed them and he pushed them as far as he could and they couldn't listen to him anymore. It was just time. In my blog, I wrote about the Larry Bird rule. Three years and done. Well, Craig Berube got five.

And, you know, he won a cup and they loved him for it, the players, the fans. I just think he ran his course there. The other thing I will say about the Blues is that if you go look at the underlying numbers through SportLogic or some of the other teams told me this, they're a mess in their own zone. And Doug Armstrong kind of said that.

He said, our defense and goalies are made to look bad about the way we play in our own zone. And Doug Armstrong kind of said that. He said, our defense and goalies are made to look bad about the way we play in our own zone. They are going to have to change the way they defend their own end of the ice. The point about the coaches, that is well told. I think that makes the situation in Tampa, for one, so remarkable. But you're right. It seems as if, as we all know the coaches have

shelf lives um but it seems if after three years four years there's you know the analogy that i used on on the radio today was too much water at the wine that the potency of the the message just isn't there uh over time it does tend to get to get watered down. So we'll see what happens here. I think that we've all done the, okay, so what led up to this decision? Where did things begin to fall apart for the St. Louis Blues? And when you fire someone as beloved as Craig Berube

and you have a press conference, the likes of which we saw from Doug Armstrong, you start talking about, okay, where did things start to unravel? And I think we've all sort of pointed at the uh the alex petrangelo situation and that contract negotiation and it's funny too i talked to one manager tonight and we're talking about the blues and he said that's one of those situations where the minute he's gone like the second he's gone you start regretting it and you say to yourself ah now we've got to deal with what life

is going to be like without are you talking about petrangelo talking about you know angelo i will have this debate with you i think from an honest point of view i agree with you and i don't think the st louis blues have been the same since alex petrang left there. But I am not convinced that Doug Armstrong regrets that. And the reason I am not convinced that Doug Armstrong regrets that is because when they let Petrangelo go, why was it? It was because, yeah, because they felt they were giving him more power than, say, the owner of the team right and i just don't like i think philosophically like you look at all the contracts the blues have given out

since then they've never passed what petrangelo could have gotten so what that says to me is that was a philosophical decision like everybody has their red lines that they're not gonna cross right and that was doug armstrong's red line i am not crossing that and if you take a look at it, there's some no-trade clauses that these players have. Like, Kairou and Thomas, who are their highest-paid players, do not have clauses. Now, you could argue, if you wanted to, that their contracts are no-trade clauses. I don't know if I really buy that argument, but some people do make it. I'm with you. I hear that, mm, but some people do make it. I'm with you. I hear that, I know what you're saying. I'm with you. But he has never bent what he refused to do with Alex Petrangelo. So I think I know what you're, I know totally

what you're saying. It changed the culture of the Blues. They've never been the same team and I think they regret it from an on- point of view but i don't believe doug armstrong regrets that decision because i think that's a line he won't cross i understand that one of my points through all of it is you have your captain a guy that just helped you win the stanley cup a player that's going to help keep you competitive. And what you're arguing about is essentially he wants a promise that he's going to be able to stay. That he wants his roots to get even deeper in St. Louis. And I think that, you know,

obviously if they would have re-signed Alex Petrangelo, I don't think we'd be having, like I don't know what would have happened with Craig Berube regardless. I don't know that I want to do an A to B between the Petrangelo discussion and the inevitable firing of Craig Berube. All I know is I don't think we'd be talking about,

you know, the dismantling of the St. Louis Blues as quickly as we have been if they would have re-signed him. Yeah, I understand that. That's where it all started it changed the course of the franchise and it changed the course of the vegas franchise too i i get that but i just wouldn't say that i don't think he regrets it okay from the st louis blues we'll go to the vancouver canucks elliott and uh this whole night first of all perfect that thatcher demko the

36 save shut out for nothing over the florida panthers because thursday night was the night of the ring of honor ceremony for roberto luongo the goal scoring kicked off by andre kuzmenko uh which was a nice touch but this was lose night number one ring of honor your thoughts once again i think the canucks do this very well in the sense that they don't have a quote-unquote professional do it they kind of have another player for example BXA did really well obviously when the Sedins did it and in this one Corey Schneider was kind of the ringleader. I really liked the way that they do that, that it's kind of the players night where they kind of run the show. I really enjoy that. I thought it was a great night. I thought Luongo hit all the right notes. I really liked what he said about how you know the the canucks fans deserve what

they're getting this year a good team and a passionate market i just i just want to start off by saying that i'm so happy for you guys hockey is fun again in vancouver i always love the standard line i hope you do really well, except for tonight. And of course, the Canucks go out and ruin it. That's a sign of a good team when you sit there on an emotional night. And even though the motion really isn't intended for you, you go out and you grab it and you run with it. But I thought it was a really special night.

I would just say in general night I don't like I would just say in general I don't understand um I don't always understand the idea of retired numbers versus honored numbers or ring of honors like I I think Luongo's numbers should be retired in Vancouver I think there's players in Calgary who have their numbers honored not retired and I think they should change that I think they should retire those numbers but overall I don't want to think about that I just want to think about what a a really good night it was and you know the thing about Luongo and I think any Canuck fan knows this I think about this a lot I think some players and Matt Sundin in Toronto was one and Luongo in Vancouver was another

I think sometimes we let the noise and I think about this with myself all the time we let the noise get to us and we think it's real and it's not it's a loud vocal minority and I think the vast majority of people recognize when you are putting in an effort and one thing that Luongo has said and Cory Schneider actually said this about Luongo is that i wish he would have enjoyed it more in the moment because he gave a great effort for the canucks and in the vast majority of fans recognize the effort he gave and i think that's what this night was about is that after he left and years later when luongo realized that he finally got to go back under those terms and understand how much those fans really liked him and I thought that was

really important do you have a thought on the sports talk radio protein shake that Luongo gave on Thursday night. And the last thing I'll say is, let's free the skate jersey. Thank you. Well, that was good. I like that. Giving Sports Talk Radio in Vancouver about two weeks worth of content.

Thank you, Bobby Lou. Yeah, that was really good, I thought. That was awesome. That was fantastic, Elliot. I love it. That was true Roberto Luongo I thought. That was awesome. That was fantastic, Elliot. I love it. That was true Roberto Luongo to me. That was great. I just loved it.

And enjoy dining out on that one, Sports Talk Radio in Vancouver. Okay, 4-0 is the final score there. Thatcher Demko, what a perfect cap to the evening. 36 saves, as I mentioned. It's a shutout. And the Vancouver Canucks continue to roll wait can i just say one thing about vancouver yeah go for it enjoy your happiness that's a good team oh absolutely enjoy it just enjoy it and it's a don team to watch. Don't worry about trades. Don't worry about the cap.

Don't worry about anything. Just enjoy it. I don't know if many Canadian hockey fans are wired. Dominic just texted us and said we don't know how. Well, that's the thing. I don't know. This is for a bigger conversation i don't know if canadian hockey fans know how to just enjoy it well in vancouver right now you should

learn nobody thought this team would be good this year just enjoy when you have something that's nice the moment you start to say, yeah, but, stop. Stop. How long have you shared oxygen with us here in Canada, Elliot? Yeah, I know. I'm trying to change people's behavior. Okay, well, good luck with that one. The other place where they can't enjoy anything in hockey is Toronto.

Yeah. You work the Toronto-Columbus game, or should I say you worked the Toronto-Columbus games on Thursday night. How many different games were there in that game? Well, there were two. There were the first 40 minutes and the last 20, and then the next 20, and I guess there were three, actually. Yeah, the overtime.

I mean, Toronto was awful. It's as bad a game as they've played all year. They were down 5-0 after two. Just horrible, horrible performance. I couldn't believe there wasn't a goalie change. I really couldn't believe it. Well, we'll get to that in a second. But the worst thing is that justin and

nick who are generally captains negative about the mapleys were making all sorts of excuses for them you know the flu or they're tired and it was just the dad's trip and and and the old jeff merrick oh my god that tough back-to-back road trip from Long Island to Madison Square Garden. I believe my example was Buffalo to the Big Apple, but nonetheless, go ahead. Yeah, it's that tough three-minute flight, yes. Anyway, they were horrendous, and it was interesting. They came out in the third period, and Justin was sitting there,

and he goes, okay, they score, and they go, if they get the 5-2 with about 15 minutes left um he goes they could do this and they get to 5-2 four minutes in and he's like if they can get to 5-3 with 10 minutes left and it doesn't happen and they get they get to 5-3 with five minutes left and then Justin's like when do they pull the goalie and they get to within 5-4 with 1-15 to go and the moment that happened I was like they're gonna tie this we better be ready for overtime and they did and you know Nylander said after the game that in the intermission, second and third, they challenged themselves to say, let's get 20 shots. But what that said to me is, and Columbus is one of the worst teams in the third period in the NHL, what they said basically was, we're down 5-0, but we don't think these guys are that good, and we can make a run at them and they did they tied it before they lost in overtime and that would have been an absolute disaster for Columbus like like a total total disaster

for Columbus and they found a way Kent Johnson who's had a tough year but it appears to be going in the right direction he had a fantastic shot to win the game what a shot but you know like the thing is too is that initially they were gonna make the goalie change and Curtis Sanford who's the goalie coach there was like nope we leave Sam Snob in there to battle with his teammates which I thought was a really interesting decision it's not one that I would have made but it worked out well for Toronto even though they lost in overtime that was a crazy crazy game and now Ryan Reeves got hurt and Patrick Laine got hurt it was a costly game for Columbus but they got the win which is good for them because I would not have want to seen the reaction if they would have blown that game to To me, I knew Columbus was going

to win when Nylander put it between the pads of Elvis Merzlikens and it didn't go in. It felt like, okay, nothing's going in here because Matthews had fired a couple of rockets and they didn't find and then Nylander slides it between the wickets

and it just squeaks to the side of the post. At that point, I said to myself, this ain't happening. And to be honest with you, when Wierenski was on that breakaway, I thought that was going to be it. I'm like, Zach Wierenski's winning this thing. And then when you give that kind of time and space to Kent Johnson and let him snap it like that, oh, what a shot. Goudreau had a great chance too and just put it high and over the net.

He had a really good opportunity. I think we would be remiss if we didn't mention Winnipeg as well, even though they didn't play on Thursday. They got a huge win down 2-0 over to L.A. Gabe Velarde. Gabe Velarde and his return gets four points and they win 5-2. His return gets four points and they win five to two. That's a big win in game one of the temporarily without Kyle Conner era. That was just a massive, massive victory for the Jets. I would love to see Vancouver and Winnipeg and Edmonton

two seven-game series out of them. Vancouver and Winnipeg and Edmonton, two seven-game series out of them. Yeah, what's not to like about that? Yeah, I think Winnipeg's a really interesting team too because right now the Jets are kind of playing some of their young D to find out exactly what they've got. It's pretty interesting there. They're going really well. What it seems to me is that Kevin Sheveldayoff and that team are trying to figure out their future defense on the fly.

They've got a good team. They're giving it a good run in their division. I really like their forward depth. Unfortunately, Connor Hellebach's playing great. And, you know, they've got two defensemen in Dillon and DeMello who are up after this year. They've got some young kids who want the opportunities. They've got Schmidt out of the lineup, although I think he's going to play again. I just find it really interesting they're going well and they've bought themselves some time and i think they're trying to figure out

what their longer term defense is going to be so it's it's kind of one of those things where you're you're trying to win and you're trying to figure some some things out for the future all at the same time. Okay, Elliot, I want to get to the Minnesota story here, but one more game to go over. The winning streak is over for the Edmonton Oilers with a win on Thursday night that would have leapfrogged over the Arizona Coyotes and into the wildcard spot, but it is not to be.

The Tampa Bay Lightning, Just reminding everybody again, you know, there's a great story that Marty McSorley tells about when he joined the Edmonton Oilers, he was a young gunslinger and Dave Semenko, the late, great Dave Semenko was there and wouldn't let Marty fight. And then one day after three or four games, Marty was always eager to fight

and he came into the dressing room and Dave Semenko was sitting there taping up his wrists and he said, Marty, every now and then we must remind them. And tonight we're going to remind them. How good they can be. 7-4 is the final. Four goals for Stephen Stamkos. Good performance by Andre Vasilevsky. And the Oilers' winning streak ends at 8. You know what else they reminded us?

When they lost 8-1 to Dallas, and they had Dallas later that week, someone said to me, I'll bet you your favorite number, $11 billion that Vasilevsky is going to beat Dallas. And he did. He shut them out. I'm concerned about Tampa's depth.

I think they still have a lot of skill, a lot of elite level skill. They have a great goalie. I just don't think they're deep enough. And they got tuned for 57 shots like the ice was tilted for the Oilers but once Vasilevsky showed that he was going to stand in there you could see their confidence really grow and Skinner had a rough game he took the blame at the end he's been very good lately but like this Tampa team they're they're gonna be a headache just because of who they are they gotta find depth if they find depth that's how they become a handful impressive

victory Thursday nonetheless okay let me get to the Minnesota Wild story. And this was a week of surprises, a surprise in St. Louis and a surprise in Minnesota. Midway through the week, Assistant General Manager of the Minnesota Wild, Chris O'Hearn, and the organization mutually agreed to part ways. Now, it seems very much in this story like there's not enough water getting from the river to the village it seems like this thing is bigger than what it appears right now which is only a headline which is chris o'hearn is out as agm of the minnesota wild from what you've been able to piece together so far and i'll throw in the caveat knowing that there's probably bigger parts of this story or at least more parts of this story still to come yeah What have you been able to put together? Well, I don't know Chris O'Hearn very well at all,

but I know people who know him, and they were shocked when it got out that he was out. And the one thing that Mike Russo put together in particular that I had trouble with was I didn't realize there were two investigations going on or that two investigations had occurred. I knew there was generally one, but I didn't realize there was two. him at his word because he knows that organization very well and he's done some good work is that it appears the first of those two investigations focused on o'hearn and the second of those investigations focused on bill garen i still have no idea what happened with o'hearn and like i said people are stunned because if you would go through the nhl and say this is a person who was guilty of some behavior

that could result in a mutual agreeing to walk away, he would be very low on the list, very low from what people seem to tell me. So, you know, people are shocked and maybe someday we'll get some clarity on that. Now, Guerin, as Russo reported, there is an investigation going in accusing him of verbal abuse. And, you know, Mike's story had said that indicated that Guerin was going to be able to move past it. And that was something, you know, he'd probably have to undergo some classes for or something like that. But Mike wrote that the Guerin was expected to continue working. I don't know that.

But I don't have any reason to dispute Michael, Mike Russo. I just haven't been told that same thing. to dispute Michael, Mike Russo. I just haven't been told that same thing. The one thing that I had heard that Mike hadn't written about is that because this is a staff member who had connection to the players, I had heard some players were really upset about it. And again, I don't know what the truth is. I'm not passing judgment one way or the other. I just know that I'd been told that some of the players were upset about it and the Wild had to manage that. You know, there have been some times in Minnesota's history, especially recent history, where the players had real big say. You know, Ryan Suter and Zach Parise aren't there anymore, but they had real big say when they played there.

And while those personalities are gone, I still think that kind of way is still a bit in the organization. And I was told before all the books got closed on this, some of the players who were upset might have to be sated a bit. And so that's one of the things that I was kind of waiting for an answer on. So again, I'm not saying that Bill Guerin was right or wrong here. I know there was a complaint i know he was under investigation i don't know at this point in time where this is all gonna go that's where i

think we are at this point in time i really don't know what else i can say the story clearly um not over yet we'll see where this goes okay elliot let's wrap up a block here by going over some of the news that you talked about in your latest blog at 32 thoughts uh at sportsnet.ca shane pinto returning to ottawa we all know that his suspension will eventually be over and he'll be welcome back to the senators with a new contract heading back to ottawa soon yeah game 42 for the sanders is on january 21st it's against the Philadelphia Flyers. They have a bit of a unique situation that they've basically played fewer games than anybody else. And so they have to catch up. So he's eligible to play against Philly. There is a stipulation

for suspended players that you can return. I think it's like 10 days before uh you're you're first allowed to play and you can start practicing with the team but Pinto has to get back into uh Ottawa find a place um start working out get you know reinsert himself into the city kind of and uh I'm I'm under the impression it's getting very close to do that. Like the agent and the team, they aren't talking about it, but I heard it this week from someone that he's going to be going back. And I would assume that he will sign for the remainder of this year basically on his qualifying offer.

Again, I don't know that. Nobody's confirming that. And unless they come out with like a surprise multi-year deal here um i think he's going to sign uh for the rest of this season and then we'll see but but the one thing that has not changed to me jeff is that i i don't have anybody telling me that he is not part of their core i still think they consider him to be a key part of their group as the senators grow uh do the new york islanders consider zach parisi a part of their group he is skating again yeah you know i know some people have seen him skating i i believe it's at shattuck

saint mary's but i don't know that for sure he went there by the way for those that don't know that for sure. He went there, by the way, for those that don't know. Right, of course. He played with Crosby there, right? So, and, you know, he's a Minnesota guy, so it makes a lot of sense. You know, obviously it's the Islanders, so nobody knows what's happening. It's all locked away between the Lamorellos here. One person does.

One person does. And, you know, I don't know what this is going to be, but I just think it's interesting he's skating, and people believe if he's going to play this year, it's going to be for the suddenly surging Islanders. Oh, yeah. No kidding. And suddenly surging Noah Dobson, boys.

Yes. He ever looked good. Okay, the Seattle Kraken and Philip Grubauer. So they officially announced him on Thursday as week to week. But that would be good news for the Kraken. I think there were some worries it could be longer than that. We'll see how it plays out. It's definitely going to be some time.

But they got a big shout out the other night from Joey Decord. And Chris Drieger, who's one of my my guys i really like dealing with over the years he ends up coming back up from the american hockey league and uh i hope it works out for him but uh he's gonna miss some time uh grubauer and i i i think there were some fears it could be longer than that so hopefully week to week turns out being a good diagnosis for him. Okay. Well, we'll cross our fingers there for the goaltender,

a couple of appeals. Well, one appeal and potentially one grievance. We'll start with the appeal, David Perron and the six gamer. What are the issues around this one? We saw Alan Walsh pretty much show us on Twitter the other night, what the appeal is going to look like.

What are some of the other avenues and issues involved in this one you know I think the the challenge here is you know like I think at the end of the day the Red Wings understood kind of that Perron was the only guy facing some discipline I heard when they kind of decompressed and looked at the overall situation, they understood why things worked out the way they did. But I think they were hoping that Perron would be a little more lenient than six. Like someone said to me, the Red Wings were kind of hoping

he might only get four. Instead, Thursday was the third game he missed. You've said it before on this pod. We've already seen two appeals this year with Rasmus Anderson and Charlie McAvoy. And both times, Gary Bettman backed George Peros. And I don't think anyone expects any differently. And so I think we all think that Bettman is going to back Peros and keep it at six games.

I actually wondered if they would make it five so that there wasn't the chance for the independent arbitrator, but they didn't do that. And the other thing too is very clearly Peron is upset because Alan Walsh, he would not be doing that on social media if his client was not on side. For everything that's happened in Walsh's career, he always makes sure that he asks his client, are you okay with this? So I think Perron is probably very upset too, considering he had no history. But where Perron could potentially win

is with the independent arbitrator. We have seen a couple of cases in recent years where there have been reductions. We've seen other cases where the independent arbitrator has stayed with it, but we've seen two big reductions. Dennis Weidman went from 20 games to 10. Tom Wilson went from 20 games to 14.

The problem with that was the timing. By the time Weidman won his appeal, he'd already missed 19 games. By the time Wilson won his appeal, he'd already missed 16 games. So they end up missing more games than penalized. So they get money back. But as far as I know aside from hg wells jeff no one has invented a time machine so i think the the tough thing for perron here is is this going to go through the appeals process before six games are up and that appears to be unlikely so he might might get money back unfortunately he won't make up the time. And you know, the thing about Walsh is, you know, that's his personality. That's who he is.

The one thing someone did say to me is, do you think Alan Walsh takes it seriously when he tweets about concussions and CTE? And I said, yes, I don't think he's doing that for effect. I think he's really a true believer in the dangers of concussions and what they can cause. But I wouldn't be surprised if at some point, whether it's the league in the hearing with Bettman or the league, if it goes to an independent arbitrator, says, you know, here's all your tweets about the dangers of CTE and concussions. How can you be fighting this when a player could have gotten a head injury from it? And so, you know, I think this is going to be quite the process and we'll see where it goes. Just as a quick aside, I've always wondered this, and I like asking people this

question, nothing to do with hockey. You mentioned time machines. If you had the ability to either go into the past or into the future, which would you choose? Boy, that is a great question. Oh man, you just blew my mind. Now my head is spinning like a top. This podcast could go all sorts of different directions here. Well, I asked Dan Carl, when I hosted an event with Dan Carl and legendary podcaster from hardcore history, I asked him that and he said, into the future. And I said, why? He said, dentistry was horrible in the past. That's the main reason. But to me, it would be the past as well, because I like the element of surprise in life. And I don't want to know what's going to happen in the future because I like to be

surprised. I think it's one of the great things of life. And there's a lot of questions I do have about the past. I would say probably the past too. I would probably say that, but at least you made me think for a second there. Might be the first time since I've known you that I've made you think, but nonetheless, there we go. Okay, from appeal to grievance, to Corey Perry's situation. Even though Corey Perry may not want this story to continue, the NHL Players

Association, I think we can all assume, is not really interested in this case being used as any type of precedent for the future. What's happening here? Yeah, I think the issue here is that, you know, we've talked about this on the podcast before generally if the players association is going to appeal something they want the player to be on side and one case where that didn't happen was Patrick Berglund in 2018 the players association wanted to appeal that and Berglund just didn't want any part of it and I remember having different conversations with members of the players association agents at the time and they were that and Berglund just didn't want any part of it. And I remember having different conversations with members of the Players Association agents at the time, and they were angry about not being

able to pursue that one. Now, I think at the end of the day, they realized they just couldn't win it. And that's why they didn't pursue it. But they wanted to. bergland just didn't have his heart in it so they weren't they didn't have a chance you know i've been writing again about that and i had a couple people reach out to me this week and say to me that they really feel that even if perry doesn't want to do it and as i sit here doing this with you i don't know what perry's feelings are that even if perry doesn't want to do it the players association has to and i want to make one thing very clear here. I think I have a good idea of what occurred, but I don't know 100%. So it's dangerous to guess. I don't want anyone to think I'm minimizing what happened or trying in any way to obfuscate what may have occurred. But there is definitely a feeling here,

rightly or wrongly, that when you look at some other terminations that resulted in settlements, this incident didn't carry the weight of some of those situations. Now, again, I'm saying that not being 100% privy to all the details. That is definitely the feeling, however, that for whatever exactly occurred here, you cannot let it stand as a precedence for teams to terminate contracts. So I do think the Players Association is weighing grieving it, even if Perry doesn't't the other thing you can do is with the league and the league has to agree with this you have you can negotiate a car what's called a carve out where it's a one-time deal where the two sides agree that this cannot be used in any future

negotiation now that has happened before I'm just searching for some of the exact cases. But for example, like they have done one-time things in the CBA before. During COVID, like contracts end on June 30th every year. That year that COVID hit, 2020, they moved it to October 30th for one time only. Last summer, they made a deal for on-ice workouts in the off-season. Who could be allowed on them? Because normally, team personnel or not, they allowed skills coaches who are affiliated with teams to go on,

and they were trying it for one summer only. Now, obviously, this is a much bigger issue. So we'd see where this goes. But there are examples of that. And I do think one way or the other, the union realizes in this case, it's going to have to say that the specific incident here cannot result in a termination in the future. Elliot, let's finish up the A block of the podcast here by getting your thoughts on the NHL skills competition, the revamped formats for the skills competition. 12 all-stars competing for points in eight different events, a million dollars on the line here, half to the player, half to the player's charity of choice. This very much looks like hockey operations is back in charge of the skills competition yes it is and and after last year there was a lot of blowback about the

skills competition and i have to say this i didn't hate the gimmick events as much as some other people did but some people really hated them like i laughed at the dunk tank last year i i thought it was good but the overall pacing last year um just the fact that the crowd like there were people in the building in florida but not everyone was in their seats and it also took a long time like there was a lot of blowback so this year you know one of the things we did on the thursday night regional broadcast against columbus toronto is that if they did a specialized event at toronto what would it be and i said who can finish construction first because then you would become the god of Toronto but they they absolutely said we're going back to just hockey skills and you know the thing is like I knew McDavid played a big role I know we talked to Steve Mayer about it and there

were other players did too I think Matthews did but obviously McDavid's like the big guy right and so and I heard he spent a lot of time talking about how to make it better but the other thing too they wanted to do is they wanted to cut it they didn't want everyone doing it they wanted uh to streamline it for time they want only a certain number of players doing it but the buy-in had to come from your number one guy and that's mcdavid and he said yes i will do the event so i think it was two things let's get his feedback and let's make sure he's all in and mcdavid agreed to do both and you know as we all know um when your number one player is invested on doing things, other people will fall in line.

And McDavid, to his credit, saw the importance of it. The only bad thing is now he's going to have to talk to Scott Oak like 11 times. He's the clubhouse favorites very much going into this one. It sounds like, put it this way, I'm actually excited about the skills competition. You know me and I've always lobbied for the specialists and all that. Like, hey, let's see, Martin Furk, they take a hard shot here against, you know, Ryan Pulak, for example. But I like the way they're doing this one as a competition where the players do all of the skills instead of just specializing.

And there's something on the line, and you funnel it down to a winner. I think it's a really intriguing idea. I like the way this thing sounds. On that, we'll take a break. Montana's Thought Line to come next. Some intriguing questions and find out if Elliot could only have one jersey for the rest of his life, what would it be? That's next. Keep it here.

Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Okay, Elliot, time now for the Montana's Thought Line, which has become a staple. Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Canada's home for barbecue. Try the ribs. 32 thoughts at sportsnet.ca. 1-833-311-3232. Try the pecan salad. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca.

1-833-311-3232. As I try to gimmick up everything. Okay. Lance in Edmonton submits this one. Okay. I like questions like this. First of all, the preamble is interesting. Hey, guys. Lance in Edmonton. Try the ribs and the deep fried pickles coaches ruin everything you plan god laughs your university sucks no your university sucks etc he's obviously listened

for a long time uh i'm wondering if in this age of analytics do coaches and players if they know in advance the referee pairings they will have before a game, will they adjust accordingly? For instance, these guys are a little more lax and we can be more aggressive in the corners and in front of the crease, or these guys call more penalties and we need to be on our best behavior. Thanks, guys. Great job. 100% that happens.

I know for sure these teams know referee tendencies. These things are kept track of much better than they used to be for example scouting the refs is an excellent resource in terms of telling you some tendency about referees and what they call and there was one coach who showed me a book once he said you can never use my name until I retire. And they're still coaching. But he had a book on each referee. This is what their temperament's like. This is what they tend to call. So in a world where everybody is always looking for that 1% of an edge,

100%, they are on top of this information. That is a great question. Tim in Maryland, go Caps. Hey, guys. Tim from Maryland. Long-time listener. Love the pod. this information that is a great question uh tim in maryland go caps hey guys tim from maryland long time listener love the pod my question is if you could own only one jersey for the rest of your life from any franchise during any period of time what jersey would you own you don't have to name the player you'd want on it but if you do by only stipulation is that the player actually played for the franchise this counts for situations like hellebuck on a thrashers jersey or ray bork on a nordiques jersey great job jelly dom that's sticking thanks again

what's your answer i got two okay well ham ham me. Well, Hamilton Tigers. Hamilton Tigers I would want. That is a team that later turned into the New York Americans. That was a team in the NHL in the 20s that went on strike for more pay. They added six games to the schedule but refused to pay the players more. So the guys went on strike, was the first work stoppage in the history of the NHL. And interesting about the Tigers jersey, no one has been able to find one. There have been documentaries, Elliot,

made about finding a Hamilton Tigers jersey. Do they even exist anywhere anymore? So Hamilton Tigers, but- I'll tell you, from the early 90s when i was at university i don't think i missed more than a handful of guelph storm games and i would get a guelph storm early 90s probably like 92 93 or 93 94 with are you ready for it because he was my favorite hockey player on the team okay jeff o'neill on the back jeff o'neill was your was your favorite player on that team yes he was so good elliot that's gonna go right to his head i know widen the door frames that fit

in his head it's gonna it's gonna swell but he was exceptional like there were a lot of good players on that team first of all i loved that. I loved the gray and blue and red. I loved everything about that jersey. And Jeff O'Neill was the guy back then. So I'll take a Jeff O'Neill Gulf Storm jersey from the early 90s, knowing full well, yes, I'm going to hear about this. I mean, the obvious one is a Team Canada 72 Henderson jersey or something like that. But I wanted something that was a little bit different. And when I thought about this, I came with a Wayne Gretzky Indianapolis racers Jersey.

Oh, if I could, well, it's also his first pro team. Yeah. The first pro team that the team that everybody forgets didn't last a very long time but in indianapolis racers wayne gretzky jersey that would be awesome can i add another jersey vaslav nadamansky from the toronto rose that's that's all you can do whatever you

want there's there's a lot um there's a lot but that lot. There's a lot, but that's a great question, and that's a great call. Those racers' jerseys were gorgeous. Okay, here's an interesting one. Derek in Calgary. In true millennial fashion, I was gaming slash talking with my friend Nathan on Tuesday while we both watched the Flames-Golden Knights game

on our phones. After Sharon Govich's late-time goal was reviewed, the referee said, we have a goal. Nathan commented he thought it was weird because they usually say we have a good goal. I asked if he ever listened to 32 Thoughts and he replied, no, hopefully that will change.

So then I had the pleasure of explaining the lore behind how Merrick is the sole reason that NHL refs no longer say good goal. I don't think that's true, by the way. Oh, I don't think that's true. I don't. I do. And it's not ego boosting. I actually think that these guys are playing with our brains.

Yes. Okay, well, let's just see if they are. Because something that Derek submits here is a challenge he replied that if he was an official and he heard that namely Merrick complaining about you know calling it a good goal versus a goal he doubled down and start saying quote we have a good good goal anyway just wanted to pump Jeff's tires a bit here. Great job, everyone. So if any, and we know that officials listen to this podcast, if you really want to stick it to me, don't just say we have a good goal. Say we have a good, good goal.

Double down on it. What do you think of that, Elliot? Remember when I said I didn't think it was an ego boost? Now I think for you, it's an ego boost. Okay, let's get to, actually actually want to knock down a question here let us get to a voicemail jacob in sunrise i'm sure you guys were all watching sunday's panthers jackets matinee but for those that missed it i wanted to call in about something i'd never seen before in the the third, former cat Erica Branson jumped Nick Cousins and racked up 27 penalty minutes, including the only fighting major of the play, resulting in a seven

minute Panthers power play. I'm curious, when was the last time we've seen a non-coincidental fighting major? I'll hang up and listen. Thanks, guys. First of all, I want his voice. Seriously, he should be a broadcaster. He should be hosting this podcast. The Panthers should find this guy. Look out, Steve Goldstein. You're in big trouble. Yeah, man. This guy's got the pipes.

Okay, so I heard this one and immediately got to researching. And by that, I mean, I sent a text to Steve Fellin from Sportsnet Stats. And Steve, like, right away fired it back. Yeah, he's really on the ball. He's on it. So I can't take any credit for this this is all steve felon gabriel landiscag colorado avalanche november 27th 2021 so it does happen uh it just happens it's rare infrequently yes yeah absolutely elliot

how about this one nate in cleveland hi guys love the pods always a great listen i've been loving the weird and off the wall questions lately but this one isn't too crazy, sorry. What exactly is a PTO or a free agent tryout? As a Pens fan, Mark Pissick was on a PTO, got hurt, came back and was released. Now, Pleyarvy is listed as a PTO, presumably as insurance since Rust recently got hurt. Is there a certain length a player can be held to a pto like a wink wink nudge nudge quote hey this player is probably going to miss some time so we'll get you signed as soon as he's officially on ltir type situation thanks in advance great job jeff and elliot and the immortal dom oh i didn't know you were drinking from that fountain, Dom, but very good. Good for you. All right. What exactly is a PTO or a free agent tryouts, Elliot? in and practice with them or you know basically it's we're dating but we're not engaged or married

i think that's probably the best way to put it curious yet well behaved yes we're just seeing each other what is it that you're actually dating now the third date so you're before the third date now that they can go on for a long time you'll remember a few years ago Scott Gomez signed a PTO with the Islanders and he was on it to like December or something like that before he signed so there's really no level as long as the player and team is comfortable and also if you sign a PTO it doesn't mean that you have to sign with that team a few years ago in the exhibition season scotty upshall was on a pto i think with vancouver and he ended up signing with st louis so it's even though you're with one club and generally most people who sign ptos do do it with that team it doesn't mean you have to when you're ready or if you get another offer. It's not binding.

And as our producer Dom refers to it, he says, boys, it's called a situationship in our group chats. Well, I got to say, it's a good thing I'm not out there dating right now because the way it sounds, I don't have a chance. I would be swept up by those sharks, chewed up and spat out. Single for life. That's where I'd be. Joseph in Northern Vermont. Oh my God, Merrick,

this is like a thousand questions. This is more questions than I've asked in my life. This is interrogation. Get in the chair, get the spotlight on you, roll up your sleeves. Here's a cigarette, here's a cup of coffee. You just start answering, Elliot. Oh my God.

Greetings from as Northern Vermont as you can get. Yes, that's right. I'm a Bruins fan, and I'm helping all of our beloved border guards make sure Habs fans remain on their side of the line, which can be very difficult, but they are very clever. Anyway, I want to thank you for the quality conversation about hockey. The show has been a bit of an escape for me,

and listen to every second that Jeff isn't talking. Hey! I don't think I like joseph in vermont but i digress last night i was teaching my buddy's 16 year old son about the greatest sport ever gifted to humans and he's a beginner so as the night went on we watched the highlight of brady kachuk's shootout attempt tuesday night against peter kachetkov yeah after the, he looked at me and asked, so the goalie can just take a dude out? This got me wondering what are the actual rules for

a goalie making contact with another player during a shootout? I know during the course of play, a goalie might stick check a player setting up in the slot or just outside the slot brackets, which is a slot area, Jeff. Yeah, yeah thanks bud uh but can a goalie just come out and blow up a shooter on a penalty shot again thank you so much for all you

put into the show you guys including dom are awesome this is an interesting one yeah i have to tell you i i watched it a bit more and i thought kachuk should have been given another shot okay so see this one to me comes down to. I thought he tripped him. He goes for the right skate. But the thing is though, if it were a breakaway, it would have been a penalty. But because it was a penalty shot, it's not. He gets another chance.

No, because the puck is off of his stick. Yeah. I'm not so sure. Don't you think he's trying to make a move i understand that but the puck slides into the goalie while he's on his feet and he's trying to make that move once he loses the puck the shot is over so yeah but no but here's the thing no no i disagree with you on this okay i don't think he shoots the puck i think he's trying to make a move he doesn't shoot the puck he loses the puck no he loses the puck i don't think so i think he's trying to make a move he doesn't shoot the puck he loses the puck no he loses the

puck into I don't think so I think he's preparing to make a move and he sees Kachetkov going for him and he loses it like he loses his focus on the play I don't think like with all of the things that we now allow on shootouts do you really are you prepared to stake your reputation on the fact that he had completely lost control of the puck the puck was no longer on his stick it was in the goaltender's chest but he did not have the mini it was in the goaltender's chest because the goaltender was in the face off circles no no doubt he was no doubt he was coming and that's but the thing is like here's the thing if that is a breakaway yes then i think it's a penalty but if it's you know what happens on a penalty shot if he trips a guy if it's over no but the thing is if he trips a guy you know what happens he gets another chance i understand that But the problem is the shot is already over before he trips him.

It is the slimmest of seconds that we're counting here. But the puck is off Kachuk's stick before he gets tripped. Yeah. And for a penalty shot or a shootout, hang on, for a penalty shot or a shootout, the minute he loses control of that who said he lost the shot is over that's my judgment on and that's obviously the official's judgment on well you're all wrong i'm looking at it again just as we do this he loses control i

don't i don't think so i disagree with that i don't think he loses control of the puck. I'm glad we did the 97th question of this podcast. I don't think he loses control of the puck. I think he's trying to make a move to go around him. And I think because Kachekov comes out as far as he does, and Kachekov trips him. Do you disagree that he tripped him? He tripped him after the puck was in his chest. Yes. Hang on, hang on, his chest yes that's why i'm saying

hang on hang on hang on that's why i'm saying if it is a breakaway it's a penalty no but because it's a penalty shot it's not i disagree with you is over i don't i don't think at what point the play ends i think the play is trying to make a move i i think i you cannot tell me at high speed that that was not instantaneous I think he should have been given another chance because clearly like he doesn't even go for the puck he goes for the right foot I'm watching it again right now like it's an ingenious move by Kachekov if you're not cheating you're not trying it's an ingenious move but I really thought Brady Kachok should have been given another chance to me the ingenious move is Kachukov recognizing that if for a breakaway, what he was doing would be a penalty.

But the fact that it was a penalty shot, the minute that the puck is off of Brady Kachuk's stick and he loses control of it, the entire play is over. So he tripped him after the play was over. Therefore, no do-over. I disagree. I think it was in progress and I thought it should have been a do-over. And you're wrong. And anybody who agrees with you is wrong. And anybody who agrees with me is right.

And I have ruled on this situation. We talked about officials listening to this podcast. If any are listening right now, please feel free to chime in. And this is the part where I tell you, Elliot, if you were right, I'd agree with you.

That is the Montana Thought Line presented as always by Montana's Barbecue and Bar, Elliot's Wrong Home, Canada's Home for Barbecue. We're back to wrap up the pod in a moment. Elliot Sidney Crosby we've talked a lot about Sidney Crosby

we're still talking about Sidney Crosby we're still going to talk about Sidney Crosby for a long time but as it relates to right now Wednesday night more heroics from Sidney Crosby three points against the Montreal Canadians, 12 round shootouts, Montreal and Pittsburgh Jansen Harkins,

the hero there, but Sidney Crosby, uh, at his age, um, is doing remarkable things. And I think we're all on the same page. We would hate to see the Pittsburgh penguins squander a great year like this

from Sidney Crosby, because I don't know how many more of these incredible years we can get. But if there's anyone you don't want to bet against, it's Crosby. Your thoughts on 87 right now. MVP. I know we're only 30 games in. Do they have,

see you and I sort of differ on this one. You think they have to make the playoffs. I don't, I don't, I don't think you necessarily have to make the playoffs to be an MVP. There's nothing in the actual description of the trophy that says that, so I am sticking to the actual definition. But for you, they have to make the playoffs for you to be in consideration?

I do think so. I'm just— Although, you know, although, look, it's happened three times ever, twice in a six-team league. And the last time it ever happened was Mary Lemieux in 1988, and they missed the playoffs by a point. And that was the one that snapped Gretzky's streak, right? 168 points in 77 games.

streak right 168 points in 77 games so there is some precedence for this I don't know look it happened also happened a couple years ago Adam Fox won the Norris in a year the Rangers didn't win the playoffs and that was a hard one for me I voted for him I voted for him but it was a hard one for me I admit voted for him. I voted for him, but it was a hard one for me. I admit it. It was, I don't know, hard trophy, not making the playoffs. That's hard for me. Hard trophy, I can at least be part of the conversation. I think it's ridiculous whether you're voting on the Norris or the Selkie or whatever, Calder,

that you have to have a self-made qualification, that you have to make the playoffs to win any of those trophies. Well, I know. I say that. Hold on one sec. I just want to say I hold the Hart and the Norris separate than the other ones. Why the Norris? Because... Do you think that's the Hart trophy for defensemen?

Yes. Even though some defensemen win the Hart trophy, I see that as the Hart Trophy for defensemen. Do you see the Vezna as the Hart Trophy for goaltenders? I don't vote on that. The GMs vote on that. No, I know, but I understand that. But do you see it?

I don't have to care. La, la, la, la. I don't have to care because I am not voting on that. Okay, fine. Okay, I'm just curious how you see the Trophy. Control what I can control, Jeffrey. Okay. All right, very good um i the one

thing that i look at with crosby again i mentioned this off the top of this conversation i don't know that kyle dubas feels more pressure because crosby is having this season i would just hate to see this season squandered because what we're seeing out of Sidney Crosby every single night is a guy that's saying and I love this just like we've always talked about Peter Forsberg and never quitting or never trying to take a step back this is Crosby saying I don't care how old I am I don't care how old everybody is around us here I don't care what everyone's saying around us here I'm gonna go and have an incredible season. Every single night, I'm going to play like it's game seven, and I'm going to try to drag this team into the playoffs. I don't know

if there's more pressure on Dubas because of that to make sure this season isn't squandered, but I just think that considering Crosby's playing like this, I would hate for the Penguins not to make the playoffs. See, I think with Dubas, he is tasked to do two things at once. Keep the team in contention while building up the foundation. That's what I believe his mandate is right now. He's got a seven-year deal. So he has to walk the tightrope of

keeping the team in contention while Crosby and Malkin and Letang and the addition of Carlson are still top players but also building them up for the future it's a hard one to do but that's his mandate that's his mandate so you've got to stay in it while you're not going to have the top picks at least not intentionally Crosby to me like that game on Wednesday night on Wednesday night hockey like he owned the ice against the Montreal Canadiens that's how good he was and I do think generally look if he has a season like Lemieux did in 88 and they missed the playoffs by a point, yeah, I'll look at it for sure.

But to me right now, I don't know that there's a player more valuable to his team than Crosby. Okay, so we'll look forward to watching Sidney Crosby and the Pittsburgh Penguins facing off against the Toronto Maple Leafs on Saturday, one of five games on Hockey Night in Canada. You can also watch the awesome Noah Dobson. Boy, has he been good. And the New York Islanders facing off against the Montreal Canadiens. It is Colorado and Winnipeg. Tampa faces off against Calgary.

And the Florida Panthers facing off against the losers of one in a row, Edmonton Oilers. Enjoy the weekend's worth of hockey. We'll talk to you on Monday. facing off against the losers of one in a row, Edmonton Oilers. Enjoy the weekend's worth of hockey. We'll talk to you on Monday.