32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Czechmate

Episode Date: January 3, 2025

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman unpack Canada's disastrous World Junior tournament showing, the public sentiment, and the social media impact on player morale. Afterwards, Elliotte breaks his self-imposed suspension and speaks on the turmoil in Vancouver following GM Patrik Allvin's candid interview with Sportsnet's Iain MacIntyre (22:01). That is followed by a conversation about Zach Benson's controversial goal against the Avs on Thursday and the fallout (39:03). Kyle and Elliotte discuss Jonathan Toews interest in making an NHL comeback (50:52) and Elliotte unveils that the NHL is leaning towards two outdoor games in the state of Florida in 2025-26 (54:07). The Final Thought focuses on our time in Chicago for the Winter Classic and how the league can build upon the successes of the event to make it better in future iterations (56:04). Kyle and Elliotte answer your questions and respond to your voicemails in the Thought Line (1:10:59)In the final segment Kyle and Elliotte are joined by Hockey Hall of Famer and St. Louis Blues legend Bernie Federko (1:29:47).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailThis podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

We'll do Vancouver after the World Juniors. Okay. And so, sorry, beyond Demko then, what do you want to get in with them? Well, the overall craziness. We didn't last a week. You know what? This is Patrick Galvin's fault. Like I said on the radio today, you can blame him.

He's the guy who said it, and now's we're done we we gotta talk about this okay so does the suspension keep getting pushed back no it's over the suspension's over you went to the appeals court and had it appealed yes yes yes yes the department of 32 thoughts that's right yes we're much more lenient than Gary is. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the GMC Sierra 84X. Dom, Elliot, Kyle, all with you. The first pod of 2025. Elliot, we made it.

All right. Made it back from Chicago, okay? Yeah, I know. How quickly we forget. Well, you made it back from suburban Ottawa, Oh, right. Made it back from Chicago, okay? Yeah, I know. How quickly we forget. Well, you made it back from suburban Ottawa, okay, right? You were at this World Junior game, the Team Canada quarterfinal game on Thursday night.

Describe the atmosphere before, during, and after the loss to Czechia. Okay, Elliot, that game started Thursday night. So the place was packed again, over 18,000. I believe it was a sellout. That game starts against Czechia. It felt like the crowd, like they were walking into a funeral. It's like they knew what the outcome, or at least had a pretty good feeling of what the outcome was going to be,

even though it was the quarterfinals and it was Czechia. They saw what happened last year, how close it was in 2023 in the gold medal game against Czechia. And it's very similar. Once again, the final minute of the third period, the backbreaker.

Gosh, we talked a little bit about this on Monday's pod after they had gone through the tough loss against Latvia and just scraping by against Germany. That building, there was so much tension in there. Dave Cameron said after the game, he sensed the nerves with his group with how they came out in the first period. And as Sam Cosentino said afterwards, so I was sitting up there with him and Jason Bukala, it was like that opening 20 minutes was a microcosm of the whole tournament for Canada,

where just nothing seemed natural and free-flowing. The discipline again, the Colbeau-Douin five-minute major for kneeing. The air gets sucked out early with the goal scored against in the opening minute. Tough bounce, no other way to put it for Sam Dickinson there, trying to do the right thing on the penalty kill. It goes off his glove and into the net. And then the backbreaker late in the first, and they're down two goals. What was amazing, though, is that the best they played all tournament was in that third period. And the crowd got into it, and it just felt like a tournament full of stops and starts from the beginning, from selection camp. It was a tournament of stops and starts,

and it was tough to watch, because I feel for the kids, of course. You can only imagine what that experience is all like, particularly when it's not going well for them. It just seemed like all of the pent-up vitriol, and so much of it I think is totally unnecessary, frankly, a little bit disgusting. But as that all built up as the tournament went on for Canada, it just felt like this vice around the group.

And as I say, up until that third period, this vice around the group and as i say up until that third period like no one other than maybe carter george was really playing free for canada that that entire event bradley nadeau led the scoring for canada with two goals it's shocking when you look at their stat sheet it's just not something we're used to seeing here elliot uh it really was a scene that uh i'll never forget and unfortunately for a lot of canadians fans it'll be for for all the the wrong reasons there um but after injecting some life back into the building with with how they came out there in the third uh you know, the result that I think a lot of people deep down were maybe fearing in a very real way coming into the night eventually came to fruition. And it's just incredible to see two years in a row here, Team Canada.

It's the first time it's happened under the current format of that event that they failed to get out of the quarterfinals. So I'd like to talk about something here because there was something about this year's event that I have never seen before. And it was outright dislike, if not hatred, of the team that was put together. And again, I think it's not so much about the kids themselves, but about the roster that was assembled and how that happened.

I don't get to watch enough junior hockey. I would not call myself an expert on this. But it was impossible not to notice that among people who follow this much closer than I do, from the minute it was put together, they hated this team. They did not like who was left off. They did not like who was brought there. They didn't like the mix. They didn't like the way some of the lines were put together.

And I remember saying, and I wrote, that canada loses this tournament the the second guessing is going to be enormous and the moment they lost their first game it was there it was all there it all poured out you know we talked on the we talked on the last pod kyle about how you know you can lose your first game like canada did to sweden in 2002 and you could still win the tournament nobody cared nobody cared they were all over this team and in the end they were right history proved them correct but there was something that happened on Thursday night I could not believe now I was working Toronto Islanders the regional game on Sportsnet obviously I was watching the junior game at the same time and the Ontario Hockey League a tweet, an ex-post at 7-11.

And we were on the air during our pregame show. The Canadian game hadn't started yet, but I saw it in a commercial break. And this was the OHL's tweet. All eyes are on Saginaw tonight as Flames prospects Zane Parekh and Henrys lead their teams in a high-stakes showdown. Parekh anchors the Spirit Hockey, Saginaw Spirit, while Mews powers the Ottawa 67's hockey offense. Two of the OHL's best offensive defensemen collide. Don't it and i was like okay i know the ohl has to promote their game tough one it's going head to head against team canada in the world junior quarterfinals but it's kind of interesting how they pick that game and those players, right? And then, so if I'm beginning to think, okay, benefit of the doubt,

benefit of the doubt, at 739, just as Czechia was scoring to go up one to nothing, here's another post from the ohl zane parekh everybody with the clapping emoji just as we predicted zane parekh ignites the crowd and gives spirit hockey an edge in the first period and by now i'm like this is no coincidence. And later, they weren't done yet, Kyle. This was the hat trick of tweets. They celebrated Porter Martone scoring for Canada, but the hat trick came later.

At 10.33 p.m Misa Parekh scores another guy who got cut like this was three hours after the original tweet NHL draft eligible Michael Misa feeds one to Zane Parekh and Parekh made a beautiful move to open the scoring for Spirit Hockey. This earned him the best OHL clip of the night. Now, people can say whatever they want. That is pointed.

That is the Ontario Hockey League, somebody there saying, no Misa, no Parekh, no Muse. All guys I've seen at different points in time, people say should have been there. And they're all over their feed while this game is being played and Canada is losing. I just have to say, the Canadian team in 98 lost to Kazakhstan, and that was at the end of a great run, and that team, like Gare Joyce wrote an incredible piece about them well he didn't do it it's like an illustrated piece you can find it online it's like a cartoon about the

98 team and how rough it was but that was before the social media era i don't think I've ever seen a Canadian team pounded online and in media and socially like I did this one and I have to say I'm just you know like I don't I know what it's like to be that guy on social media on a day and nobody ever wants to be that guy on social media. So I don't like piling on. And I think right now, one of the biggest problems I have with social media is you can't just tell somebody they're wrong, or you can't just say, I disagree with you. You can't just say, you can't just have a one-word tweet everybody has to pile drive people through the earth's core right i have never seen it like this and i have to tell you canada can lose that happens it was uncomfortable for me to watch the way that this Canadian team was received. Even if it proved out to be right,

it was so harsh, really harsh. And even though a lot of people will say, don't blame the kids, or I'm not blaming the kids, those kids, they're on social media. They know everything that was said about them and their families know. And sometimes families make it worse because they tell their kids what's being said and they always make it sound terrible. It never sounds better when it's coming from your family. I have never seen anything like that. And I still can't believe how much anger there was to this team. Even if it's right, I've never seen anything like this.

Yeah, the only thing that comes kind of close was maybe in 19 when they lost to Finland in the quarters in overtime. Yeah, that was the one where Comtois came out and said, this is way too much, right? Yes, that was that year. But this is, you say, from the selection camp onwards, it has been nonstop. Even before the loss to Latvia, it had been brewing, as you say.

But yeah, I agree, Elliot. Like, as I said, a lot of my formative years was when they won the five straight from 2005 to 2009. So, I mean, I grew up drinking the K kool-aid every holiday season like a lot of other canadian kids uh did but you know now all these years removed from that and covering a couple of them like when they do win it's not like i'm cheering for them but you're almost just relieved you're relieved for those kids you're going okay good they got the job done and they're not subjected to what's all going on right now that sort of thing so be another interesting interesting year in the fallout from from all of this now i i think number one i i think a lot of it will be, and I've seen it already online, is the age of the leadership group running the team.

And to me, I think that can be stupid. To me, age is just a number. Are you young? You can be in your 60s, and are you young at heart? Are you can be in your 60s and are you young at heart? Are you open and adaptable to ideas? I think if you look at it and you simply say, oh, the management group was too old. Like I said, I think that's moronic. But if you aren't willing to adapt or you aren't, like, I think it should be more about

philosophies than it should be about age. That's number one. I think it should be more about philosophies are the way you think, is it modern as opposed to age? The other thing I wanted to ask you was, what did you think about the major to Baudouin? Because I saw some people who said that wasn't even a penalty. What did you think? The camera angle from behind him, it looked like, yeah, it wasn't a penalty. And the one that was kind of perpendicular, he kind of leads with his leg. But I wonder, you know, the reaction of Sikora, like how much did that factor into what the referees ultimately decided because on salee's penalty a czech captain there he got a penalty uh later on in the game i think it was

late in the second period um and the canadian popped right up afterwards and i'm not going through this whole well this is how the czechs play this is how canada plays but um and and then even uh gibson there late in the third period, the penalty that ultimately cost them the game, that looked very similar too. But the Czech player popped back up. And so did that play a factor in, okay, was it just two minutes or did it become a five?

Because I thought Baudouin picked his lane. He stuck to it. You know, the trains didn't come off the tracks. And Sikora shifted off to the right. And that's why the contact looked uglier than it otherwise could have been, as he tried to get out of the way and couldn't get all of it. So it was a tough one. It was a tough one.

I just wondered how he— I did think it was interesting that there were two diving penalties called after that one right like i want like that's one of those things sometimes i wonder the referees get into the the their own change room in the intermissions and they look at things and they say oh i don't like that like like two minutes into the second period we had a dive on berkeley catten and then in the third period there was the dive on on sakura like i i just wonder if i just wondered about that when they when they went into the room and they looked at it again did they say or this is the other one i think sometimes

happens and i know it's happened in the nhl because guys have told me they'll get a call from someone like another official or a note from someone in the league and they'll say you know what we thought that was a dive and it can play with your head so i did wonder about that like to me i look at it whenever i see kneeing and I always ask the, you know, obviously the guys who played, I always think, do you, does your leg change? Like, does your leg go from straight to stick out? Does your knee move? And his knee didn't move, but the other thing I'm well aware of is that the standard in the IIHF

is always different and much less lenient than the NHL. And so I think anytime you have contact like that in an international game, you risk the international officials saying, no, we don't like that. And you're going out. Like the one I always remember is Dion Phaneuf on Rusty Slavolas in the 2004 World Juniors. He got kicked out of the semifinal with a hit that I don't think in the NHL would have gotten a major, but it's international hockey. And I always remember that you're playing that game. anybody old enough who watched in 1972 when the canadians really hated the two european referees like canada has always felt that the way they play gets punished internationally and you and for no for no forouin here. Like those are calls I think in the NHL. I'm not sure they're punished as severely,

but internationally you have to be aware that that's the way they lean. Right. And also too, I mean, that was the biggest story coming into the game Thursday was Canada's discipline, right? Yes. They had the label. They had the label. and they had four games

to kind of get a sense of what the the standard would be so I know you could tell certainly they weren't thrilled with how this game was officiated against Czechia but to suggest that was what uh did them in I think would be would be ill-advised but yeah it was that was an interesting because they took a while to review that one on Baudouin the major uh but i i'm as i said there's no doubt they wrestled with that one they were to me the most interesting thing was there were two diving penalties after the intermission because some because like referees have told me before they'll watch tv they'll see what people say about their calls or they might get a call or a text or from someone that influences them.

And maybe we'll never know. But I thought, you know, it did stand out to me after the game resumed. But at the end of the day, generally, I think most of the time, things work out the way they're supposed to. And the Czechs deserve that win. I just, it just, the whole thing from beginning to end,

like I said, Kyle, I've never seen anything like this. I've never seen a Canadian team before that from the beginning, people were waiting for them to lose like this one, just waiting for it. And because of all that, you knew as soon as the matchups were set, Czechia was wired. There was a sense of like, we should absolutely believe we can beat Canada in their own barn in the quarterfinals.

And they did. Full credit to them. believe we can beat Canada in their own barn in the quarterfinals and and they did full credit I think they really felt and it was it turned out to be true that if Canada felt pressure it would squeeze them and there were times in there yeah and you know McKenna moved up and and they got some goals and I think there was a moment there where you probably thought Canada was going to pull it out. But this whole tournament, they struggled with the pressure. And at the end, they did too. So we're down to the final four. And I wish those four teams, Czechia, Finland, Sweden, United States, all the best.

And may the best team win. And a cap tip to Latvia after the story they yes feldbergs man oh man incredible again against sweden in their quarterfinal i bet you he gets drafted this year yes yes that's very good elliot that's his insight so yeah we got a number of other things to get to on this episode we'll do a a debrief from our time in Chicago in the Winter Classic a little bit later on. The Thought Line is back. Also an interview, Elliot, with Bernie Ferdurco, legendary St. Louis Blue, who was kind enough to give us some time while we were in Chicago earlier this week.

But why don't we start in Vancouver? The Department of 32 Thoughts, the most lenient Department of Justice I think you're ever going to find because we didn't even last a week with the self-imposed suspension of no Canucks chatter on this pod. Not even a week, Elliot. Well, first of all, this is not on me, okay? This is on Patrick Alveen. If you don't want me to talk about the Canucks this week let Patrick know because I had to drop my self-imposed suspension and timeout after and Ian McIntyre deserves all the credit for doing that great interview with Alvin and I will say this like I always say to you we can't complain that people in hockey are boring and then

whine when they tell us the truth so Patrick Alvin decided he had something to say and I am not criticizing him for it because can't have it both ways cannot have it both ways. You know, first of all, huge win for them on Thursday night in Seattle. Just five days after they blew a 4-1 lead to Seattle late and lost in overtime, they blew a 3-1 lead late, Vince Dunn tying it with less than a minute to play in regulation although this time they held and won in a shootout the winner scored by JT Miller who was kind of in the middle of all this whether he wants to be or not so that's a huge win for the Canucks on a night where Thatcher Demko got hurt and Kevin Lankanen, who may be their MVP this year. Well, okay, Hughes is their MVP this year.

I'll say Lankanen is second. But maybe Lankanen, who's been their second most important player this year, comes off the bench and gets them a W. That's just a huge, huge win for the Canucks. You know, it has been a crazy couple of days, and I have some overall thoughts here. First of all, as I've said before and I'll say again I think the biggest reason for all of this unrest in Vancouver is that the organization and I'm talking players coaches management they felt that last year when the team took a big step, beat Nashville in the playoffs,

took Edmonton to seven games in the second round, they would see, everybody would see that when we pull in the same direction, we're a pretty formidable team. And you could say that, look, a core of Queen Hughes, JT Miller, Pedersen, with those three as your top three skaters, you could build, and the right pieces around them, guys like Besser, Roenick, you could build a really good team, a really good team. And they were excited about that. And this year, it's kind of gone all sideways again.

And I think that even though Pedersen and Miller, like, I understand that Pedersen hates this. I get it. I understand that Miller hates this. I get it. get it. I understand that Miller hates this. I get it. But what they have to realize here is that it's not their words that are escalating this and pushing it back to the forefront. It's the words of Olveen. It's the words of Hughes. And it's the words of Talkett over the past two weeks. And so they might think that it's not a big deal, but the other people around them do and they're tired of it.

Like, I believe there was a time this year where both players were told, you guys need to figure this out. And it just hasn't happened and you know i think this miller he has not asked for a trade he has no trade control would i do i think he would consider things if they were presented to him yeah but he's not but they're gonna have to go to him he's not going to them i don't think okay at least not now who knows what the future is going to hold? He's not doing it right now. He's not asking to go anywhere and he's

not demanding to go anywhere. Pedersen, so one of the questions that's been going around this week is, are the Canucks really serious about doing this? He's a 26

year old guy. Players like him don't come around very often in terms of being available. Like someone said to me, the last player at this level to become available, and I think there's a real comparison to be made about them in terms of where they were at the times of their careers was Jack Eichel. You know, Eichel and Pedersen, I don't think they're the same personalities, but talent wise, they're both great players. And you'll remember, I mean, it seems funny when you think about Eichel right now because he's one of the best players in the league. But at the time, you know, people didn't know if he was really as good as everybody thought.

It was unfulfilled, right? And because of the way it went for him when he got into Vegas, I think there's people who look at Pedersen and say, if this is for real, we have to jump at this. And that's why I think there's some question as to whether or not this is real. Look, I do think they've talked to other teams about Patterson. I do think they've talked to other things about Miller. I think they would prefer to keep both guys.

They've seen what they can do. And, but, you you know they're listening and these are two guys in alvina and rutherford who are not afraid not afraid but the price would be enormous i think in a perfect world what the canucks would love young kyle is for pettersson to adopt a little more of Miller's personality and Miller to dial it back a bit. Like maybe adopt a little bit of Pettersson's personality. I think that's what they, yes,

but you know what? You don't want to complete change. Freaky Friday. Are we talking about the Lindsay Lohan version or the original 1979 version that I saw in theaters because I'm so old? No, the Lindsay Lohan version, of course. Yeah, Lindsay Lohan, Jamie Lee Curtis. Absolutely. No, you don't want that because then you get a complete reversal and it doesn't solve anything, right?

Semi. Yeah, you want like slight osmosis, I think, is what you want. And I think in a perfect world, that's what they would have. You know, with Pedersen, I'm convinced that what Alvina is doing here is, look, Alvina and Rutherford won two Stanley Cups in Pittsburgh and they won it with Sidney Crosby, right? Hartford won two Stanley Cups in Pittsburgh, and they won it with Sidney Crosby, right? And Sidney Crosby was the best player on the ice, and he was the best player off the ice. He was driven. He was competitive.

He pushed his teammates. It wasn't always easy to play with him. But at the end of the day, he didn't do anything. He didn't expect anything out of you. He didn't expect out of himself. And he was the best player, like I i said both on and off the ice and petterson's never going to be like that he's just not wired that way but i think they i think there's an expectation he has to be more like that he's not enough there you know like you know like when you're When you're getting paid 11.6 million, you got to be a great player, but players look to you. They're like, how does this guy prepare? How does this guy lead?

And maybe Pedersen will never be 100% the perfect leader, but that's totally fine. You can't expect that. But what they're saying is you're still not invested enough. And we need more of that. The thing about Miller, and I do think that there is concern about this, is that Miller, if you take Miller's personality out of that room, even if you think, as Brad Richardson said on the Missing Curfew podcast, he goes a little too far sometimes, you are really altering the chemistry of your room.

They don't have anyone else among their best players who's like him. Hughes is a great captain, works hard, leads leads but he's not like that Pettersson as we said is quiet Besser is quiet Ronick can be I've heard really caustic but he doesn't speak a lot like Miller there's nobody like Miller and you do need somebody like that and on a good team and I have heard that even though they may end up trading him there is some concern that there won't be anybody around a top player who pushes people like Miller does and that's then it comes on your coaches and while your coaches have to do that to some degree you do want a player or two to do that and I do and again like I said with Talkett I think he's just frustrated I do so you know there's still a good team and by the way the news on Demko appears to be good.

Kyle, Rick Talkett postgame saying that he suffered from back spasms. As long as we avoided the knee or the popliteus muscle, it's a good night in Vancouver. But I just think that's kind of where I see this whole thing. I see at the end of the day, everyone there is just very frustrated because they thought last year it was over. And now it's back, and they're tired of dealing with it. Because you look at their season from this point, I mean, Craig Simpson talks about it all the time. It's just, it is your three-game winning streaks

and three-game losing streaks. And at the end of 82 games, what do you have more of usually tells a lot about what kind of team you have. And like this Vancouver team, they haven't been able to get on any kind of role yet. And what you referenced at the top of this conversation was the Q and a, that Patrick Alvin gave Ian McIntyre and for

those that are interested and haven't read it yet it's still available on sportsnet.ca there's a lot of good information in there but he hinted at like they don't know what they're gonna get from night to night with this Canucks team here and certainly all the stuff that you just laid out plays a factor in that but I look at them i mean they won four in a row early on in the year three in a row not long after that but they haven't won more than two games consecutively since early november and that's all part of where they're at now scraping and clawing just to stay in the mix in the the Conference. And you go through the other things that Alvin said. I mean, the big one, of course, that stuck out to me, and I'm sure for many,

was when McIntyre asked about the idea of, in theory, trading somebody like Pedersen at the end saying, you know, I guess I would say anything is possible. We know Alvin is not a shoot from your hip type of guy when speaking publicly. He doesn't appear, at least to me, to be someone that's just going to throw stuff out there to see what the reaction is going to be. When I read that, I thought, okay, something's coming here at some point. What that something is exactly, we don't know. But I don't think he put that out there by accident,

and I don't think it was just something as simple as a shot across the bow to get the attention of the locker room either. I think it was directly done for Patterson. I do. And, but I also believe it's, you know what, we want to know what the market is in case we have to do something. So on that, I'll say this. Nick Kipriosa on his show with Justin Bourne was trying to get JT Miller to Toronto. I got to think if JT Miller is going to eventually agree to go anywhere, if it's not going to be Canada. I think he probably says, if I'm not in Vancouver where I've committed to, enough of this.

I'll go somewhere a little quieter. You know, I do think the Rangers are interested. I do. But I don't know how easy that match is going to be. Like, I'll say this. If Vancouver wanted to do Zbinijad and again zubinijad is a no move clause too so he'd have to want to do it i think that could be done already so i'm not banking on that the guy i could see vancouver really liking is Schneider but I'm not convinced at all

the Rangers would do that as a matter of fact I'm pretty convinced they wouldn't just because I think they want to keep Schneider so I don't know how easy that deal is going to make Ped Pedersen, if he's actually available, I mean, look, we've talked about Buffalo, and I think there would be a lineup of teams there too. I'll tell you one team, and I want to stress that I didn't really look at how it would all work, but just thinking about it off the top of my head, especially after what we saw in person this week, Kyle, would be Chicago.

Oh, I wondered if that's where you were going. You know what? If I'm Chicago and that JT Miller thing is real, that's the guy I'm going after. And again, you've got to be willing to make a trade. You know, Chicago doesn't have a lot at the NHL level, but... They've got a lot of picks. They've got a lot of picks.

They've got a lot of prospects. And then Vancouver can decide, do they want that and then do some other things? But if that's real and I'm the Blackhawks, I am jumping all over that. All over that. And as we learned this week, if Kyle Davidson's busy, Conor Bedard knows an awful lot about their prospects too.

Tom Sromati, our producer, just texted us, Bedard or bust. Yes. Sorry, Dom, I don't think that's happening. And the trade was one for one. No. Any other fireworks you want to set off in Stanley Park here before we move on? No, I mean

no, I don't. You know, I would say this. If I was Vancouver, you know, we talked the other day about Emerson. He's a one-year guy. I think that, you know, I think they will get him signed in Edmonton.

I know there's a couple other guys like Lorenz in Toronto. I would think they would try to get him signed and I'm sure he would be happy to stay. If I'm Buffalo, I'm trying to get Jason Zucker signed. And if I was Vancouver, I'd be trying to get Kevin Lankanen signed. I would. All right. You mentioned Buffalo. You want to talk a little bit about uh sabers avalanche here on thursday yes and i have to think that the buffalo sabers are glad they don't have to look at colorado anymore oh boy twice so what was it five nothing they were up in buffalo earlier this year they let that slip away they lost they were up three nothing on thursday they led five three

five three late in the third and again lost six to five drew in the last minute and then you want to know why devon taves is on team canada if anybody has any doubt look at the play he makes to win the game in overtime he strips tage th Thompson of the puck, goes in and scores. Okay, but we've got to talk about the Zach Benson goal. Yes, yes, we do. First of all, we should hear the reaction. The referee said it wasn't blown because we put their guy into Scott. I said, I don't give a shit. He's hurt. They're standing there.

He's sitting there. He's hurt. Blow the whistle. If the puck's in the net front still and they were hacking away at it and it goes in, I'd say fine. But as soon as the puck squirts to the corner, they got to blow dead. They do it all the time

for regular players because of player safety the rule would state that we have to touch it but they don't follow that rule they never follow that rule two games ago we were in the offensive zone one of their players was down in the slot and we were passing around and kale mccarr is coming downhill for a one-timer and they blow it dead. Take away a scoring chance, what could be a possible extending of a lead, and they blow it because the player's laying there hurt in a shooting lane. So it's the same thing for the goalie. If he's hurt and he's not getting up and they can evaluate that and they're standing right there looking at it, the whistle should go. It's just that simple it's not i did i think it was goalie interference no it's not goal interference because we bumped him in he turned the wrong way and we bumped into him and he went into our goalie but he

when the goalie's hurt you blow the whistle all right so for those who haven't seen it zach benson is shoved by a color player into Mackenzie Blackwood. Blackwood is hurt, but the Sabres continue to possess the puck, and very quickly thereafter, it was about, what, five seconds, Elliot, for when the collision happened? Yes, we counted five seconds. Benson gets the puck again behind the net. Buffalo's had control of the puck this entire time,

so the whistle doesn't go. Meanwhile, Blackwood is on his back in his net in pain Benson wraps the puck around and scores and it's awarded a goal I don't know Elliot the rule book as we know and we see it at times where a player is injured but because the other team has the puck, the whistle doesn't go. But it also states, in the case where it is obvious that a player has sustained a serious injury, the referee and or linesperson may stop the play immediately. I mean, Blackwood left the game. He was clearly in distress, rolling inside the net net but it all happened so fast so Colorado fans have seen this before and Jared Bednar has seen this before it was five years ago when Matt Calvert and it was against Vancouver and it was in Vancouver Matt Calvert, and it was against Vancouver, and it was in Vancouver.

Matt Calvert took a shot off the side of his head. It was a Pedersen shot, and he was down on the ice in an obvious pain, and Vancouver scored. All right. And also, you'll remember in the playoffs, it was Edler who scored. And you'll remember in the playoffs a few years ago, Zach Wierenski. And that was the one that was really uncomfortable with me. When Zach Wierenski was left bloodied on the ice and the play continued around him.

And they said that was the correct call. Remember, he took the puck to the face and he posted it yes he posted the picture of his of his black eye that was against pittsburgh yeah 2017 now i first of all i want to say this i respect Bednar's reaction because he's standing up for his player and his team. So I think you could argue, and by the way, like Pittsburgh scored on that play. I think it was Zucker actually who scored on that play where Wierenski was down. And I remember watching that and doing that playoff series and saying, I know that is technically right by the rule book, but I don't like this, especially with the amount of blood that was flying out of Wierenski's face. It was a castle shot, by the way, that hit him.

So I understand Bednar standing up for his guy, and I also do feel that when it comes to goaltenders, teams tend to be even more on edge about it because especially Colorado, look how many goalies they've gone through already this year. So they don't want to see another guy get hurt. I mean, that was really fast. By the letter of the law, that was the right call. Colorado didn't have the puck. Benson had a scoring chance i'll tell you where i thought i thought the colorado players got really angry is with benson's celebration like the goal he's down he's hurt and he throws the big celebration after scoring the goal like if i was on the

edge for the avalanche i'd be trying to kill him too connor clifflin to the rescue i couldn't believe the celebration after the goal. And like I said, I knew why the Colorado guys got mad. I mean, like I said, a few years ago when it happened with Wierenski, I've always been really uncomfortable with that play. But that is the rule book. And, you know, I'll say something too. And, you know, the Avalanche and their fans might not like hearing this

because it doesn't affect them. But I do think the diving, the fact that they're giving diving embellishing penalties again in fines this year, it says to me that the league thinks this is out of control. And in the last week, there have been three situations. One was Matthew Kachuk, one was Martin Natchez, and one was Colin Blackwell, where players got hit and they looked like they were seriously hurt. And the person who committed the foul got ejected, Kucherov for Tampa, Timo Meier for New Jersey, and Tyler Bertuzzi,

who was later fined by the NHL the next day. And those players were all back pretty quickly. And I'd heard actually at the outdoor game we were at that this was a big topic of conversation among the league and officials. And so I can't help but wonder watching that play, if those other recent situations where guys had been down and then came back, influenced that decision in the moment. And the tough thing for Bednar was if you're going to review that play, you're not going to win because clearly he was pushed into the net. So I understand, again, I understood what Bednar was trying to do here and I really

appreciate him standing up for his player, but nothing about the way that was handled surprised me, even though I'm really not crazy about goals being scored around injured players. Yeah, and I hear what you say, what we've seen in the last little while with players going down and then coming back. I think it's different when you're talking about a goalie, though, Elliot. I don't know, like, maybe they were thinking it.

I just don't think it should be treated the same way. Fair. Again, totally fair. And you know what the other thing, too, is, Kyle? I think if the puck is passed around for maybe five or ten more seconds, maybe it's different if Wedgwood can't get up. But again, because the puck goes right to Benson and the official can see he's about to score I think they're thinking if Wedgwood gets up right

away I guarantee to you that official is saying if I don't let a goal count here and that goalie gets up I'm gonna look terrible I guarantee to you Well, all I'll say is that there is a story that you bring up that Bernie Federico shares in our conversation later on. I remember that one. Very timely, considering what we saw in Denver on Thursday night. Early 1980s Stanley Cup playoffs. I remember it very well. And it's even worse than this one.

Yes. Somehow I'm not thinking Jared bednar is going to be satisfied with any of this and if i was the general manager or the owner of the colorado avalanche and bednar gets fined tomorrow i am happily paying that fine all right from fines to uh suspension zachary larue three games for the slew foot on jared spurgeon of the wild sounds like spurgeon not as bad as maybe the wild initially feared bill garen suggesting on thursday but he is going to miss a little bit of time here is interesting the explanation video pointing out elliot the fact that there was the combination of what he did with his leg to take his feet out and also his arm shoving him back is really what did him in for the three games beyond the five-minute major in game misconduct he got in the moment. LaRue, to me, has been actually one of the few success stories in Nashville this year.

He's carved himself out a role much sooner than anyone expected. But anyone who knows him knows he's been suspended 11 times before he got to the NHL that it's kind of the same as Rempe in a way. If you don't learn what the line is, you're going to be out. away. If you don't learn what the line is, you're going to be out. And now he's going to have a reputation because if the officials weren't aware of him before, they are now because of this play and all the news about his previous penalties that preceded him. So he can be a really effective player. He has shown that there is an NHL player there and a good one for a long time. But if he, it's going to be cut short if he doesn't recognize

that there's a line and you can come close to it, but you cannot cross it. Like there's lots of bleep disturbers in this league who are very good at their jobs. And some of them are among the best players in the league. Guys like Brad Marchand. But just like he had to learn where the line was, LaRue has to as well. And you know what? I looked up, I looked at Slough Foot Suspensions, and I know they really try to follow protocol now. And I found, I think Marchand had a two gamer

and I think it was Ryan Hartman who had a three gamer. And that's where I thought they'd come in around. All right, Elliot. Jonathan Taves gave a wide ranging interview to GQ that dropped early on this week about the healing trip to India. We talked about that a little bit on the pod here a little while back,

but also suggesting that there's still a fire in him to maybe get back to the NHL again. He hasn't played since the 22-23 season. He wondered then if that was going to be it for him. The question is, if he is in fact serious about returning our team's interested in him i think the biggest question is going to be um does he want to play this year or not and one of the things that happens is that if you play in any other league uh you have to clear waivers which could make the whole thing really interesting.

But I just assume that wherever he signs with, that's where he would go. But that's one of the things everyone's wondering. Like, are we really talking about this season? And, you know, sometimes you'll get a guy who's been out for a long time, and he'll sit there and he'll say, okay, we'll take your chances to come back later in the year, but this is a guy who hasn't played in two years. So that's one of the things. I think there's a lot of interest to talk to him and see what he's thinking.

I just don't know how many championship contender teams are going to want to do this this year. I think that's still what's to be determined. But people are really curious. There's no question about him. There's a lot of respect for what he's done in his past. And if he feels healthy, people are going to look at it there's no no question about that i also just wanted to mention um you know austin matthews

and his comments this week and you know he made a point he doesn't know if he's going to be 100 healthy and people are wondering what it's going to mean for the four nations and the Leafs and things like that. I kind of look at it this way. First of all, I still think it's too early to talk about the four nations. It's five weeks away. But the one thing I do think, Kyle, is I kind of wonder if he's looking at it like you can't keep stopping and starting, especially with this tournament getting closer in your windshield. And so I just think that there's probably a sense that you can't keep stopping and starting this close to it. And so I just wonder if it's kind of like, we're going to take one more big shot here and see what happens. So we better make sure we're really ready to go before he returns.

It's kind of what I'm wondering. Yes. Especially for a guy that's so big on rhythm and flow and all of that, how he plays and when he's at his best. So to be constantly in the state of, okay, we're okay. Let's try it. And no, now we got to back off again. I can totally see that

all right before we get to final thought we mentioned we were down to the board of governors meetings at the beginning of december elliott that uh you got some intel about an outdoor game coming to miami the florida panthers and now there could be two outdoor games coming to the state of Florida next season? Yeah, it's beginning to look that way. And one of the things that I kind of wondered about is why are the Lightning so quiet about an outdoor game going to Florida? And I think it's because they could be getting one too.

Like, I don't think they're going to be playing each other. I think there's going they could be getting one too. Like I don't think they're going to be playing each other. I think there's going to be other teams involved. But I think there could be – it sounds like we're looking at an outdoor game in Florida and an outdoor game in Tampa. One of them being the Winter Classic? One of them, I think, being the Winter Classic. Like the Florida one I know is going to be played with Miami, with the Marlins, and that will be the stadium.

I assume the Tampa Bay one will be Raymond James where the Buccaneers play, but I don't know. And also football stadiums can be a much bigger challenge around the Winter Classic depending on what the schedule is going to be. But it does sound to me like it's not just going to be one team in Florida. It looks like it's going to be two. I saw someone, I forget who it was, so I apologize, that put out what the Winter Classic in Florida will look like.

And it was the scene from D2, the Mighty Ducks, where they're playing in-line hockey against Russ Tyler and his brother and their buddies. That was very well done. That was great. If there would be a way to incorporate that at all with the games down there, I would be on board wholeheartedly.

It's going to be interesting. And before we get into overall thoughts about the Winter Classic, why don't you introduce the segment? All right. It is the final thought, and it's brought to you by GMC. So, Elliot, we spent about, what,

three days in Chicago. We took in the United Center. We took in Wrigley Field for a couple of days. We took in Billy Corgan and the Smashing Pumpkins. Oh, that's fantastic. Chance the Rapper,

who Dom is a big, big fan of. And the spectacle that was the Winter Classic outdoors at an iconic ballpark. It was neat when we sat out in the bleachers there for a little while on Monday and everything that came about the practice day, getting to walk through the venue. The walk from the Cubs clubhouse out through their dugout was like, I can't believe we're doing this right now.

out through their dugout was like, I can't believe we're doing this right now. The climb up the stairs to where the St. Louis dressing room slash clubhouse was. Why don't you start with just your takeaways from the event? I mean, you had been there before for both baseball and hockey. What did you think of the 2024 slash 25 edition? Well, everything was good about it except the game that's what i would say everything was great about yeah these fans were having a blues fans you guys were i was there

they were awesome yes they they were fantastic that's right except i understand it just wasn't a competitive enough game um but i loved everything else about it um you know we uh a few years ago we when the outdoor game was at fenway when the when the penguins played the bruins um we sat atop the green monster and we record a podcast from there and that was incredible and with you we recorded the opening to um the interview podcast with Bedard and neighbors while sitting in the bleachers. And it's a real highlight for me. You know, I thought Chicago was great.

I understand that people may not get as enthused about it on TV anymore. I counted. This is my 20th one. When you walk into that building and you feel the energy and the enthusiasm of the people there, you can't help but get excited. Like you're the downer. You're a downer of a person if you do not get excited when you're around those people. And again, the whole area was fantastic. You know, Wrigley is spectacular. The players were excited.

The fans were excited. As you said, like our couple of days, we had a great steak at Bavette's. Like that was a really good night while we were there. You know, a couple places we went to, really enjoyed it. There wasn't a lot of downtime. Like we put in a shift. We worked. Do you want to talk briefly about the little

thing that you've created that you're going to be showing? Do you want to give that away or do you want to save it? No, no. We just spent the morning before the game on New Year's Eve. We went to Metric Coffee, a really dynamite coffee shop and roaster not far from the United Center.

Sam and Ryan were great in hosting us. They showed us a little bit about what they do. We tried some of their coffee. We tried pulling espresso. We tried latte art. And we got it all on camera. Emily Kaplan from ESPN stopped by for a little bit of it. So we're working on putting

out... Classed it up, I would say. She classed it up. Yes, it was needed. Dom has been working tirelessly in trying to put this video together. We're going to have some content of our visit to Metric Coffee, as we talked about on the pod. It's something

I love to do when on the road. Maybe this becomes something we do a few times over the course of the year, but it was a great first visit to one as a group, Elliot. I appreciate you guys had a great time there. So, yeah, stay tuned. It'll be coming on our social channels here over the next little bit. I'm excited to see the final product because there's a lot of work to do. I really enjoyed it.

It's very on brand for me to do something terribly the first time, like be artistic on a latte, but do it much better the second time, which I'm proud to say I did. But I really had a great time doing that. We worked and it was hard work, but the NHL after party was fantastic with the Smashing Pumpkins

and that cover band. I don't even know what they were called. Oh my gosh. They had a cover band and they were fantastic. And the singer, she had a dynamite voice. Like everything was great about it except the game. You know, I really think that, you know, they're going to Florida next year and that'll be unique and different, but we are getting to the point where I hope eventually

we get, uh, we're back in Canada with the heritage classics. I would love to see them find a way to have Montreal do one. I still really liked the Corey Massasack idea. Maybe, uh, Ovechkin and Cros have Montreal do one. I still really like the Corey Massasack idea. Maybe Ovechkin and Crosby get another one. But I'm really thinking that they have to find something

unique again. I don't know if it's Europe. Like someone heard us talking the other day and said, what if you played at like Manchester United or something like that yeah of course or like wembley or one of the great soccer stadiums in germany because they really do want to start i think working hard on the german market maybe it's mexico city um

i have to find some things have to find some things and i'm it'll be back on new year's day i believe next year like people were wondering why not this year well they didn't want to go head-to-head with college football because uh of the schedule and that was the reason but you know i um i i love them i like i said it's my 20th one it's more for the people who are there than the people watching on tv but i do think we have to get a bit creative in our ideas again by the way i just want to say quickly uh gentleman by the name of i wanted to shout out red batty okay now he was, he wanted so badly to get some time with you when we were in the Cs that's when they first uh got put in contact but Red worked as an equipment manager in the NFL for 43 seasons just retired uh last April 30 which team 30 of them the Houston Oilers and then 30 years with the Packers so he's a full retired guy now. No wonder you were hanging around. Oh, my gosh. It was so neat.

The stories that he got going, and Don was there as well, that he was sharing with us about his time with Green Bay. Anyway, we could have spent three more hours standing there in the clubhouse, but I think everyone wanted to get going there. But he's originally from just outside Montreal, so he's Canadian and is full retired now. But for events like that, he'd come down and help out the Blackhawks and just making sure all the equipment and everything they need is lined up and ready. But he is a loyal listener of the pod and doesn't miss an episode. And as I say, next time you're in that area,

you've got to make sure you give Red Batty some time because he was so excited to chat with you. Oh, I'm sorry. I wish you would have told me. Why didn't you tell me? You just told me now. Like if you would have tapped me on the shoulder and said, come on over here for a couple seconds, I would have done it.

I was so caught up in the storytelling. It's like everything else around me didn't exist. It was me, Dom, and the great Red Batty. Everything else was a blur to me for about a half hour standing there. It was great. Well, I'm sorry, Red. I didn't mean to blow you off, but it's all Kyle's fault. Yeah, yeah. Blame me again. That's fine. Big fan of the pod, and he said, I'll catch you next time that was his message to you okay i'll have to i'll have to find time and make time by the way uh spitting chiclets guys mentioned this first but kyle davidson uh going in to deliver a rebuke to the chicago players and

look i think everybody understands that the blackhawks aren't going to be winning the Stanley Cup this year. But what's the Gord Stelic line? If you're going to stink, stink on the road. At least you have to make the effort. And I actually thought Mrazek, he wore down by the end of that game. But I thought he made some saves early that at least gave them a chance. He was completely overwhelmed early on in that game um i i just think that was simply this was a big stage everybody was watching us our fans paid a lot of money as taylor hall said

and that kind of effort is not acceptable and the blackhawks know that they're in a big rebuild but you can't cheat on effort you know one of the things i was talking about was someone and you remember how we mentioned after we came out of board of governors that i was talking with one of the governors about how hard it is to rebuild right now and and he wouldn't he's he's not convinced he would do it so someone else in the league was at the game, and they heard our interview with Kyle Davidson, and we were talking about it. And he said, if you go back 20 years ago,

Sidney Crosby was drafted in 2005, and he won his first Stanley Cup in 2009. So four years after he was taken. And then if you take a look at Patrick Kane, he was drafted in 2007, and he won his first Stanley Cup in 2010. So three years right he said to me it's i don't know if that was because that was just the beginning of the salary cap era and people were kind of adjusting to the new reality but

that's not happening anymore stephen stamkos 2008 stan, 2008, Stanley Cup. He said now in retrospect, he thinks it lured a lot of people into a false sense of security that you could get a number one pick. And don't forget, the Penguins actually had two flurry in 2003. But you could get a number one pick who was a franchise player and you could win in three or four or five years now look at it like look at the number one pick since Keenan 07

how many have won cups? Stamkos took him 12 years Nathan McKinnon nine years okay Aaron Ekblad years. Nathan McKinnon, nine years. Okay. Aaron Ekblad. Ekblad's not the cornerstone player, but he was a key player and a Stanley Cup champion.

Took him 10 years. And if you look at a lot of the other players, you know, the Oilers, as everybody knows, have had four number ones. And, you know, Oilers as everybody knows have had four number ones and you know Nugent Hopkins took 13 years to get to the final game seven McDavid took nine you know and so it was interesting how and he thinks even like a team like Chicago, because it happened to them, you think it can happen that quickly.

But he just wondered if it was everybody getting used to the salary cap. He doesn't have a great reason for it. But early in the cap era, Crosby four years, Kane three, and then only three guys have won it, and the closest was a decade. Right. And, I mean, you look at, so Crosby, they get him in 05. They already had Fleury, as you mentioned.

They already had Malkin. Kane comes along in 07. And, by the way, you go back and look, like the odds that Chicago actually got the top pick that year, like it was unreal how the numbers ended up going their way. But they already had Taves in the system. They already had Seabrook. They already had Keith. So they had a bit of a start there.

I wonder too, like, especially even back then, which isn't that long ago, compared to now, the difference between who your top line players are in terms of caliber and your fourth line players, it's a lot closer than it was back then. I was having a conversation with somebody not too long ago, and it was like, back then, and before that, of course, like when the best players stepped on the ice, you knew when they were on the ice, because they were just at a different

level than everybody else that they were up against or most people that they were up against and certainly you've got your outliers i mean sid to an extent because he's been doing it forever but when connor steps on the ice it's it's a little different mckinnon mccarr but beyond that like there's just a lot of players that are incredibly skilled, incredibly talented, but they all play very similarly. And I wonder if that just speaks to it too, that even if you get a great, great player first overall into your organization, there's a team full of very good players, and on average much better than what it was 15 20 and beyond years ago it's just that much tougher to have one top end guy that you get at the top of

the draft be the linchpin that ultimately helps take you to that next level as an organization it's just much tougher to do now than maybe it's ever been before. I don't disagree. It just seems to be harder. Harder. Winning is hard. Winning is very hard. That's the final thought.

Brought to you by GMC. We will take our first pause and come back and dial up the Thought Line. You're listening to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. All right, welcome back. Time now for the latest edition of The Thought Line. By the way, Elliot, before we get to the submissions, for those, we're less than two weeks away from our live show in Canmore. Can you believe that? Can't wait. Very excited. For those that were the 10 selected for the dynamite impressions

of either myself or my co-host. We love breakfast. Yes, yes. And we love breakfast, we love the impressions, and we love the idea of having you all under one roof in Canmore. So for the 10 that were selected, you don't need to wait for anything in your inbox, a phone call, nothing like that.

Your names will be on the list at the venue in Canmore at Silvertip Golf Club. So when you show up with your plus one let them know your name and you'll be let into the live recording of 32 thoughts how does that sound for each sounds great sounds great can't wait and also we were challenged to come up with a sackic versus eiserman debate one night at the winter classic and we are working on it who would you rather have sakic or eiserman who had the better career when you get into the weeds there's not a lot that separates them so i look forward to getting into that one in a little more detail

coming up here but why don't we start okay this is a good place to start here, Elliot. Tyler, hello, gentlemen of 32 Thoughts. I was recently listening to the podcast titled It's Time to Move On in Vancouver. And in that podcast, something came up that made both Kyle's and my own diplomas stand on end. Elliot boldly takes a stance on the word re-aggravated, but he later goes on to use, quote, really unique when describing Patrick Waugh's answer to a question. How is re-aggravated not okay, but modifying unique is fine? Something is either unique or it's not,

and something is either aggravated or it's not. Justice. Thanks, boys. Love listening for years years now look what you have started i concede tyler that you are right and i am wrong so tyler i took english in university at western and i do not have my degree and you're hearing me use the phrase really unique is one reason I do not have my university degree yet. Although I'm actually getting close to the point where I'm going to try to finish it. But you're correct. Really unique is not acceptable. I still maintain it is not as bad as re gonna die on that hill i'm good it is d good really unique terrible sue good i like that sue good sue chef sue good tyler very. Thank you for submitting that. Up next, Keelan and Braddock.

Hello, 32 Thoughts team. My eight-year-old son, Braddock, and I listen to the podcast all the time, mostly on the way to his hockey games and practices. Go Warren Park Eagles. And he is always thinking about questions to ask Elliot and Kyle. The question Braddock has for the team is about equipment. How much equipment do players or teams go through during the season? Do they use the same equipment every year?

Are there limits to the amount of equipment a team can go through in a season? Thanks for making a good podcast that Braddock and I can listen to and learn more about our favorite game. I would start, Elliot, and just say, if you asked every player in the league, they would probably give you a slightly different answer to this one. It's a fascinating one. It's a great question, Braddock, and it's not one that has a simple answer. I think the best way to say it, as Kyle mentioned, is that it really depends on the players. How often do players want to change skates? How often do players want to change sticks?

Like BX had told a story the other day on the show that because of the way sticks get hacked, basically he changed his every game. And they're not cheap, as we all know. They're expensive sticks right now. And at times, I remember years ago, I think Glenn Saylor was still in charge of the Oilers. There were some big battles internally over how much sticks needed to be changed and how much the organization was spending on sticks. And it reached a point where they would only allow you to use a stick from one particular company. Like occasionally, these things do become battles, but the teams pay for it uh for the sticks and i think

a lot of it comes down to with with equipment is how often do you want to change your skates how often do you want to change your stick you know there are some players uh brendan shanahan who used the same shoulder pads for a billion years. And when everybody else had the new shoulder pads that are basically body armor, he was using the old soft kind that you would lie on your couch with. So a lot of it is personal preference, but there are some occasions where a team will say, okay, this is too much or we think we're, or raise an issue of any kind. But from what I understand, it's, it's pretty rare. It used to happen a lot more often than it does now from what I know. I want to know what kind of house you live in where you got to wear shoulder pads

to lay on the couch. But you know what? I think a good rule of thumb is like, they were pretty soft. but you know what? I think a good rule of thumb is like, they were pretty soft. Yes. The equipment that you can't see. So shoulder pads, elbow pads, shin pads,

things like that. Those are ones that you'll see players sometimes go their entire career or a good chunk of it without changing it because they get comfortable with it and they don't want anything new to have to break in. But the exterior things, like you mentioned, the skates that can be, you know,

there's a whole wide variety of how often guys like to go through sometimes they don't like changing them others once a month gloves you'll see players exchange pairs like during the game because they want you know a dry pair all the time just for better feel when they've got the puck on their stick helmets for sure sticks is another one especially now with how often you know you're tossed into the crowd giving it to a young fan as well uh another thing that's interesting well that's why they use replacement sticks now right they get they have special sticks for that well for three stars yes right but uh what's interesting with sticks so certainly i

mean there's some players that you know are ambassadors of certain companies so they've got to use you know that specific brand of stick and there's certainly been cases and are currently where you know a player somewhere along the line gets a model of stick that they really really like and they don't want to change but the company every year they're cranking out new models and new looks and so they always want the up-to-date model to be showcased with their top guys so what they'll do is they'll build the old model of the stick but wrap it in the new graphic so at least they're showing what's current even though the actual components of the stick is what the player preferred from years back so great that's pretty interesting yeah and i'll take it to another level uh if you ever see

the logo blacked out there's one of two reasons number one that the company has not you have to pay the nhl for your brand to be seen during a game so all these equipment companies pay the nhl for the rights to have their brand displayed during an NHL game. So if you can't see the logo or it's blacked out, it's because either A, that company hasn't paid the NHL, or B, the player has a deal with a different equipment company, but for some reason is not using their equipment. And I'll tell one story. There was a case in the NHL a couple of years ago where a player had a great year and was wearing skates that were blacked out. And when I asked about it, I was told that he had a deal with a different company,

told that he had a deal with a different company but they just weren't working out for him so he said and the team actually interceded and said they realized that he was struggling after changing skates and they're like there's a limit we can put up with this so the player went back to his old skates got hot again but agreed to cover them up. And when I found out about it, the player and his representative, they were not really interested in commenting about it because they didn't want to make the company they had to deal with look bad.

So that does happen from time to time. It's rare, but it does happen. And for those that are interested on players' equipment, who's wearing what, Gear Geek is a great follower line. Yes, excellent. They do an incredible job

keeping tabs on everybody. Okay, up next, Kyle from San Jose. Great handle. Hello, Kyle. Is this you? This is West Coast me. Okay. Great handle. Hello, Kyle. Is this you? This is West Coast me. Okay. California Kyle. Do you pick anybody whose

name is Kyle who submits a question? Is that a guarantee? Well, certainly we haven't had an Elliot. That's no coincidence. If you really want a question asked, just say your name is Kyle. Yes, immediately to the top. Yesiffin knows the rules okay hello kyle elliott and dom does the embellishment penalty have to be called on a

player in game to be given a fine i don't remember diving being this prevalent in the game it's getting embarrassing and the embellishment penalty is seldom used, in his opinion. Go Sharks. Go Sharks. So, Kyle, the answer is no. It doesn't have to be called in the game for it to count towards the fine. And basically what happens is, well, it used to be when driving, when diving was more prevalent, they had a committee of like nine people uh in the nhl office and they would show them all the dives that they had collect they would they would sort of get it once a week this was a few years ago um and basically like at the at the end

of every seven day period whoever was responsible would have a like video of all of the ones that they thought might be dives, whether they were called in game or not. And they sent it to the nine people on the list. And basically, it came down to if a majority of people felt it was a dive, then you got a strike against you, an X or a check or whatever you want to say. I'm not sure if it's still the same process now. I should double check. But that was the way they used to do it. And when they first created this system of fines and punishments for embellishment, that was the process that they used.

So I assume it's something similar, although I will check for sure. Great. Okay. Ben writes in. Hello, Kyle, Elliot, and Dom. There's a few players in the past few years who have been traded or rumored to be traded because of their on-ice performance was impacted because they were going through a tough time off the ice or weren't getting along with their team.

My question for you guys is, when a player who needs a change of scenery is on the block, is it possible for the GMs of an interested team to talk directly with the prospective player about their current situation? I could see how getting the player's viewpoint on why things aren't working in their current situation would be helpful in making their decision on whether or not to trade for the player. On the other hand, I could see how this information could be seen as private and thus not appropriate to ask for. Thank you for your hard work and go Canucks go. and thus not appropriate to ask for. Thank you for your hard work and go Canucks go.

It depends on the team that currently has the rights to the player. If they want to give you permission to talk to them to facilitate a trade, you're allowed to do it. If you're not given permission, you can't. You know, one of the situations I remember where a player was traded for a bit of a personal reason was Jeff O'Neill, who's now a great broadcaster. Jeff O'Neill was in Carolina. His family went through a very tough time, and he got traded to Toronto.

And at the time, the hurricane said that, you know, Jeff O'Neill wanted to go to Toronto because of that situation, and the two teams made it work. And so it does happen from time to time. But when it comes to speaking to a player, if the team currently having the rights to the player wants to do it, wants to allow you to do it, then you are allowed to. It's up to them.

Very good. All right, we will wrap with Kevin from Penfield, New York. This is an interesting one. You ready? Yeah. Hey, everyone. Recently, I went down a rabbit hole looking at player statistics and wound up on Joe Pavelski's page, who we saw in Chicago this week.

Yeah, yeah. It amazes me that a player drafted in the seventh round, 205th overall, amassed 1,068 points in 1,332 games. In looking at his individual seasons, I noticed that he never averaged a point per game at any time. The closest he came was 81 points in 82 games in the 21-22 season with the Stars. This is true. My question is, who has the most points in nhl history who has never averaged a

point per game in any individual season so here's what i went and did i asked for the top five we don't have to go through all of it okay most points... Can I give a blanket hit just to start? No, no, no, no, no. This is just to get you started. Okay. So the top five. I am old enough to have witnessed at least part,

if not all of the players in the top five. So no one from the 50s, from the 80s. Well, they could have started in the 80s and then played into the 90s and 2000s, but you get what I mean. You know, it was the first, he had to have some big seasons when he scored like 50 goals.

No, there's no way this could be right. No way this could be right. But the first guy I thought of was Brendan Shanahan. No, because he would have had years where he was over a point per game. This is players that never were a point per game. God, if he listens to this, he's going to be really insulted. So hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me think about this.

Yeah, this is going to be interesting because this is going to be a lot of guys who probably weren't near the top, right? So can we discuss the player that Kevin mentioned as the whole basis for this question? Yeah. Pavelski. Yes. Yeah. So he, he is first.

He would be the most points. So we're looking at two through five. Two defensemen, two forwards. The high point total, 972. And fifth on this list is 867. Did Brent Burns ever average point a game? He's not on this list. He's not on the top 12.

He must have. This is an interesting one because these will be good players. Did Trevor Linden ever average a point a game? Wow, excellent. He's fifth. He's fifth? Yeah, 867 career points. Oh, he's fifth. He's fifth? Yeah. 867 career points. Oh, he's fifth.

So I'm trying to think. Okay, I'm going through teams. That's too many points for Kevin Lowe. Yeah. The two defensemen are in the Hall of Fame. Oh, they're in the Hall of Fame? As you can imagine, yeah. Okay.

All right. so he's fifth brent burns was the first guy that jumped into my mind i have to say um what about uh did scott niedermeyer and scott stevens ever average a point a game scott stevens is on this list i assume lidstrom had to average a point of game at some point. He's not there, right? Is he? He's not. Nope.

Okay. Bork would have averaged a point of game. Yeah. Yeah. I don't really count him. Okay. So I've got Linden and I've got Stevens. Two more.

One defenseman we just saw. We just saw? Mm-hmm. Chelios? Correct. That was a good hint, by the way. That's a really good hint. Thank you.

All right, last one. Forward. And you saw him. Well, I see him periodically throughout the season you probably do too but we didn't see him in chicago like chelios i've got a good hint but it'll give it away just give it to me because it's been long enough already i got three or four so i'm good with this. Elliott Friedman on horseback. Shane Doan. Shane Doan. That definitely gives it away. That's pretty funny.

972 career points. Oh, wow. Okay. I thought it was a real fascinating filter. That's a great question. Great question. Yeah. So, yeah, we like the trivia

to wrap up the Thought Line. Kevin, thank you for submitting that one. And that'll do it for today's edition of the Thought Line. A reminder, 1-833- 311-3232 is the phone number to call to leave a voicemail. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca is the email. Thank you to Griffin Porter

for helping curating this list twice a week. When we come back, our interview with Bernie Federico, Hall of Famer, St. Louis Blues legend when we were in Chicago

over this past week. We'll take one more break here on 32 Thoughts. As promised, our final interview of the collection of conversations we were fortunate to have during our few days in Chicago earlier this week. Bernie Federico, Hall of Famer, 1,000 career games on the nose. The majority of them with St. Louis, one of the all-time greats of that franchise, from small-town Saskatchewan to the bright lights of the NHL.

He's got a lot of stories of the journey along the way, and we were fortunate enough that he shared a few of them with us. We hope you enjoy our conversation with Mr. Bernie Federico. Bernie Federico, Hall of Famer here. What a thrill to have you a part of 30 Thoughts. First off, welcome. Thank you for doing this. I wonder, as a pride of Foam Lake, Saskatchewan, what part of Foam Lake is still part of you all these years later? I think always, every bit of it will be always part of me. I mean, when you grow up in a little town like that, in the middle of Saskatchewan, no trees, basically, lots of wind, lots of cold weather.

We played hockey all our lives there. I mean, we actually, when I was a real little kid, the rink was across the street from our house. It burned down, and it took them about three or four years to build a new one, a new recreation center with a curling rink and a really nice ice rink was across the street from our house. It burned down, and it took them about three or four years to build a new one, a new recreation center with a curling rink and a really nice ice rink. And it turned out really well. So Dad used to flood the garden for us, and I had three brothers,

and we were out there all day long. Mom had to call us in for dinner, and then we were right back out there and playing under the lights, whatever we could. So we had a lot of fun doing it. So, I mean, that was Fulmik. Minor hockey was great. A lot of good coaches there. You never had to try out for a team.

It was just enough kids your age to make the team. So when you were on it, you were on it. And if you were good, you played more. If you weren't, you were the goalie. Basically what it was. So where did you rank in the age of the brothers? I'm in the middle. My older brothers are twins, and they're three years older than me.

And they really missed out on their hockey years because of the rink burning down because they really never had any organized hockey during those years. That would have been from probably nine till 13 for them. That would have been the hard time. I was three years younger and then I have a younger brother that is three years younger than me. So what was it when your dad flooded the garden? What were the Federico brothers like playing hockey back there? You know what? My older brothers would always have their friends come over.

And it was funny. In Fulham Lake, there was really not a lot of boys my age. It was more girls my age. They had the boys were their age. It was kind of funny. So I was always the one tagging on. And I was always the last one that got picked on the teams that they had in the backyard. And you're the only one in the Hall of Fame. Well well you brought that up in your hall of fame speech right yes I did so but it was fun you know I think the fact that when you grow up with older

brothers especially I think they push you you know I got a lot bigger than they were as I got older I got bigger they were kind of always like shorter than I was so I kind of ruled the roost and it did work that well for me so when was the first time like everybody realized that you were better than all those older boys I don't know if that really ever came I mean I think they would never admit that but I think that quite at quite an early age because I got kind of bigger quicker but I started playing. Kelvington is 30 miles away where Wendell Clark, Barry Melrose, all those guys. So we were not, in our town, we were not big enough to go into the B section of the provincials.

So Kelvington and us would join together and we would play together. So I got to play with Barry and all those guys from Kelvington. So we actually formed teams right from the time I was in Pee Wees. And we actually won the province as Pee Wees together in the B category and then kind of in the BAM the same way that happened. So we used to do all that stuff together. So it was kind of not until I was, I guess, probably 12 or 13 that people started recognizing that I was kind of better than everybody else.

And then when I turned 14, the same way a lot of the junior teams from Saskatchewan were looking for me, but mom and dad would never let me go. They said, no, you're going to stay here. And so I kind of went from playing junior, I mean, from playing peewee to bantam and then midget. And then I actually started playing for the senior team without mom and dad knowing. I started playing there and it kind of went from there, and then I got a chance to play for the Blades, got tryout there.

Mom and Dad let me go to Saskatoon to try out for the Western Hockey League at the Western Canadian Hockey League at the time. They wouldn't let me go play Saskatchewan Junior. Education was much more important, and they thought if you're not going to play at the big level, you're not going to play at all. So it kind of worked out for me. I made the Blades, and the rest was history after that. How did you get away with playing senior league without Mom and Dad knowing?

Well, I started playing, and Mom and Dad didn't know what was going on until Dad went to one of the games and realized that, hey, Bernie had a really good game out there. And Dad said, well, where is he playing? Well, he was playing senior. Foam Lake Flyers. So from that time on. Did you get in trouble?

Did you get the strap? Well, I did kind of get in trouble. I got in trouble for a few minutes with mom, but dad was okay with it. And then it was, again, you know, the older guys all took care of me. I mean, I was only 15, so it was on the, you know, we took cars everywhere, going on the road and this and that. And they always, dad was never concerned that they were making sure that I was in good hands. And so, yeah, from then on, mom was okay with it. And it just worked out well.

So, you know, Foam Lake, you know, you were born in 1956. Gordie Howe was seven years in the NHL when you were born. And small town Saskatchewan, I would assume that every young hockey player your age in Saskatchewan was a big Gordie Howe fan. We were, but we didn't see the Red Wings that much because we had two channels, basically a French one and an English one, so we got to watch Hockey Night in Canada. It was usually Toronto or Montreal. So you had more of that. Detroit was, I mean, you got the Rangers, you got the original six,

so you didn't see Detroit that much. So I was a big Montreal Canadian fan. I was a Jean Beliveau fan. He was my guy, wore four from the time I was nine years old. I just thought that Jean Beliveau was the greatest in the world, and I always watched him. And not so much Gordie, because we didn't see Detroit playing that much. But my dad, of course, all the Saskatchewan people always loved Gordie Howe, because he was from Saskatchewan.

So we always heard about him. But I really was more of a Montreal, more of a Jean Beliveau fan than I was a Gordie fan. Did you ever meet Beliveau? I did. I did. In fact, you know what? When I got introduced on the ice at the Hall of Fame, he was standing right next to me on the ice that night before the inductions and stuff. So, yeah, that was one of the thrills of my life. I'm just getting to stand and be with him.

Gordy, I was with Gordy a number of different times. And one of the most biggest gentlemen I've ever met in my life. I mean, and I think all those older guys, those guys like Stan Mikita, Bobby Al, Gordy Al, Jean Beliveau, all those guys, to me, Mickey Mantle. I mean, they all had that same class, I guess, about them. They were always so nice to everybody. They treated everybody so well, and that was the biggest thrill to be able to meet all those guys. What did you say to Beliveau? Anything?

I just always said, hey, Mr. Beliveau, you were always my hero, and it's such an honor to be able to meet you and just stand on the ice beside you. And he couldn't have been nicer. He was nice to my dad and my mom. I mean, all those gentlemen were just fantastic people. Wow. So we've got Blues Blackhawks here coming up in the Winter Classic. I mean, you would have played right in the thick of that rivalry

during your days. I just wonder, for those that aren't aware, the rivalry between Chicago and St. Louis, how would you describe it? Really ugly, for the most part. This was a rivalry that I think it's because the cities are so close, and of course there was the Cardinals and the Cubs, and of course then you got the Big Red. We had the old Cardinals, football Cardinals, playing against the Bears here. So it was always a lot of transplanted people from Chicago

that moved to St. Louis with corporate travel and this and that. And a lot of people have made their homes in St. Louis. So there's always been this huge rivalry. And it got ugly. I mean, it was right from – I mean, I was – I mean, the first games, I mean, I talked to the Plager brothers. It was always that rivalry right off the bat. And when I came into it, it was the same.

It was nasty. If you got behind in a game, you knew there was going to be all kinds of fights. You knew that there was going to be a message sent for the next game, for the next period. And it seemed to be always that way. I mean, fans would come in from Chicago, drive in, and they would be put in one end of our building, and people would shower them with beer.

I mean, it was almost embarrassing we watched the the stands more than I think the people watch the game that was going on because there was always something going crazy on uh there were fights in the stands there were all kinds of stuff but I mean we really the one game you always look forward to is playing the Hawks because it was going to be a battle and it was going to carry on to the next game and the next game and and in those days I mean I think that in my career someone told me I think I played like almost 90 games against the the Hawks in the regular season and then you add pre-season games you had the playoffs in there I mean I'm well over 100 games against the Hawks so how can you like them when there's such a big rivalry but it was it was nasty

and it always got nasty and and in the playoffs it got nastier uh but it was uh after you're all said and done it's great to know all those guys and and and to laugh at the same kind of stories that they have as we have it was it was nasty then but it's nice to be friends now right who did you hate the most um you know what i i really did i mean and he's a really good friend of mine Troy Murray because Troy checked me I hated Tommy Lysiak because I went head to head with Tommy all the time uh and those were the checkers and I and I didn't I obviously Savvy and I didn't really like each other but we didn't really get out against each other that much because I didn't really kill

penalties he didn't either those were the days that you know you were either a scorer or checker and you didn't do both so but it was Tommy Lysak was so hard done Troy was hard to play against and I mean you go right through to Ben Wilson Doug Wilson I mean the Hawks were were they were our nemesis and we just disliked them and there's a lot of whack and chopping whatever you had to do you did to try to survive through the game. First NHL broadcast meeting between you and Troy Murray must have been pretty funny. You know what? We got to know each other after it was said and done. And I mean, I don't think, and I think you guys know that with hockey, guys have got jobs to do. And I think that we all come

kind of from similar backgrounds. And once the game is over uh it's it's it's it's a different thing you just realize that we're all trying to do their jobs our jobs and and uh they're all just normal people like we are so it's it's it's a it's a great to be able to have it work out that way so i went back and i i remembered some of the playoff series like uh and one of the blackhawk ones i remember as a kid as a matter of fact was you guys had an unbelievable year. I think it was 1981. Mike Liu was the runner-up to Wayne Gretzky in the MVP voting. And I remember because I've had Mike Liu on this podcast, and I asked him about this.

And I had Doug Wilson on the podcast, and I asked him about this. But against Chicago, Liu gets hit by a shot, and he's out. And they both say that there's no way today that goal would count. Doug LeCure. Yeah, Doug LeCure. Yes, I was there. While Liute's out. And there were Blues players who said, like,

that was one of the most painful losses that they've ever done. It was. It was because it made no sense. I mean, everybody in the building knew that there was something wrong. I mean, when a goalie goes down the way he did, and he was out. And for LeCure to continue to play, this was not two seconds or this was five seconds after it before the puck went in the net. And, you know, it's different, I guess, back then. There was no replay. There was no television. There were not the way that, you know, we have the angles from the cameras and stuff now. So

we had to live with it. But it was very, very bitter for us to be able to lose a game that way that team was unbelievable that year we did ellie we had a really um we had a team and i will look at that we had a whole bunch of first round draft picks that had from had been on other teams that mr francis had put together um blair chapman had come from you know from from playing with me in saskatoon he was in pittsburgh ralph clausen, we had Rick LaPointe, we had Brad Maxwell, or Brian Maxwell, all these guys had been first-round picks, and Cat had brought them all in, and we were good, and we needed a goalie,

and Mike Lee, when Lutie came in, and we found Lutie, we thought that we could beat everybody, and we could. We were a little probably too wide open, we played a little too offensive minded but i think unfortunately for us we couldn't keep that team together if we could have kept that team together for a few more deep for a few more years i we i think we could

have challenged the islanders who were who were the best team you know by far during that era but we we were really good we we went toe-to-toe uh with with with the islanders as well and you probably know the story about that because we lost that game for first place late in the season. I think it was two or three games left. Joe Micheletti was on defense. He was on the power play, and Bob Bourne, Joe just fell down at the point, and Bob Bourne got a breakaway and scored the goal and ended up being the game-winning goal.

Otherwise, we might have finished first overall that year. So we had a lot of sweet times during that year. Well, and I want to also ask about 1986, too, like another incredible playoff run. And then, of course, the Monday Night Miracle game six against Calgary in the conference final. I just wonder what you remember about that. I mean, you assisted on or had an assist on Wickenheiser's winner in overtime. But yeah, for those that aren't aware, you guys are down three goals with your season on the line in the third period,

and you rallied a force at game seven. Like, what was that series like? That was my 30th birthday, which was really interesting for me that night. So yeah, I mean, I'll never forget the speech after the second period. We were down by three goals, and Jacques Demers came in and basically said,

you guys played great. Whatever happens, happens. I mean, I think he resigned to the fact that it was probably over. Our run was over because we had done more than we – What a real motivator. We had really done more than – I mean, we had taken the first series in five games because it was the best of five, and the second series would be Toronto in seven,

and now we're in game six, and whatever happens. So we basically had that attitude is that go out there and do what we can I mean we got nothing to lose here so um and then um as things would turn out and we scored a goal and then they scored to go to three goals late to get the three goal lead back and then it was almost like magic I mean for for Bernie made a bad play Dougie Brian Sutter had not really played the entire playoffs. He had the bad shoulder. He scored his first goal of the playoffs.

And then Doug Gilmore scored a goal just after that. And then Mike Vernon went to stop the puck. And instead of going back where he circled the net, and Passer picked it up and stuffed it. And when we went into the intermission, we knew that this game was ours. Something is weird here with this. You don't come back by three goals and not win the game. And sure enough, yeah, Wicks scored the game-winning goal in overtime,

and the crowd went crazy. And, I mean, I think it's probably the biggest moment in St. Louis Blues history until the Blues won the Stanley Cup in 2019. But that was a moment, and it's's funny you talk to people I swear there was a hundred thousand people there because they were everybody I talked to says they were there that night they could have been we had people that left though and did come back for the overtime too because they already gone thinking the game was over and then we tied and they all came back so it was really a bizarre time you know it's funny about that so you guys beat Toronto in the second

round that year and uh there was you had a similar game like that and where you guys were down three nothing and you won in overtime the late Mark Reed scored so I was 16 years old at the time I was from Toronto bigger Leaf fan than I cared to admit at the time my buddies were all Leaf fans so for years and years and years and years I had a buddy who would call him Mark bleeping reads. He wasn't Mark reads. It was Mark bleeping reads because the Toronto, Toronto would, if they win that game, they probably win that series. And that was the second time that you guys pulled off a big miracle.

Do you remember that night? Well, I do. I do. I remember it. Well, I mean, we were like the funny part about that is that when we started the

playoffs, we were the underdog really in every series. And then all of a sudden we had the upsets so all of a sudden we had only advantage against toronto which really was the biggest factor in that when they had to come into our building for game seven and we just knew that we weren't going to lose that game and it was it was one of those games where we knew that we were going to get the saves i mean rick walmsley and and millsie were we're going back to back and and. And that was Walmer's series against the Leafs. Walmer, for whatever reason, just played so well against the Leafs. So it was his net in that series against Toronto. So we just had the belief. And with the team we had,

guys, we shouldn't have been anywhere near that. I mean, Harry Ornette was our owner. We had no minor league system. We had everybody that was in St. Louis. That was it. We had five guys that got called up. They were all over. We didn't have a team at all, a minor league team. So we had everybody that was there, was there. That was our entire organization. And we just battled. We were the underdogs. We knew that, hey, whatever's going to happen is going to happen. And we were able to make that happen. And that, I think for all us, though, that grew up in Canada, and most of the kids back then were to beat the Toronto Maple Leafs was the most important thing, and we were able to do that.

And we'll always look at that as one of the fine moments in our careers. So there's a story that Millsy tells that when you guys go back to Calgary for Game 7, Harry Ernest has, if you guys win, there's a private plane coming home from Calgary because you're going to play in the Stanley Cup final. And Millsy says that when you lost, you flew home commercial. Is that true? Absolutely true.

And that was not the story. We had a charter there. We came in, and there was no charters back in those days. But we did charter in for the game, and after the game, we were going to go to Montreal because Montreal was, they had home ice advantage. And that, so when we came in, there was a big snowstorm there, 14th of May.

And we were there and we lost the game two to one. And we go back to the hotel to have dinner before we get on the plane to go back. And Susie Matthew, who was running our team services then, asked me for my credit card because she didn't have enough money on her credit card to make flight arrangements for everybody. So I actually paid for half the flights back from Calgary to St. Louis. She put some on her card. She put some on my card. And so we had, we all split up. Some five guys flew through many. Five guys went through Chicago.

Another few guys went through Denver. We all came back in different places the next morning. Oh, my God. This is the national hockey league. This is the national hockey league. Yes. It's unreal. He canceled the charter.

Wow. I hope you got reimbursed for those flights. I did. I did get my money back. Yes, I did. But it's amazing that that could happen in the NHL. In the 21st century, in the year 2025, it's unbelievable to hear those kinds of stories. Yeah, it's bizarre.

People don't believe me when I say that. And Susie, what a sweetheart she was to get that all done. I mean, talk about having last-minute plans to try to put together. You know, you've got 30 or 40 people that are flying together, and you've got to put everybody together to try to get them home and it was it was it was not a good moment wow that is unbelievable so one thing i want to ask you about we kind of skipped ahead but um someone said to ask you about when you were when played for the saskatoon blades you went to the western final twice in 1975 and 76 and for those people who are not familiar,

the most feared team in junior in the late 70s was the New Westminster Bruins. They won two Memorial Cups, and not only did they beat you on the ice, but they also beat you in the alley. And you guys, you had an unbelievable junior career, but twice you guys lost them, I think in seven games in the Western Final,

just before they really hit their stride. And someone said to me like, you played great. And those were unbelievable series and Bernie should describe them to you what they were like. It was really, it was, I mean, it was funny when Jackie McLeod, we used to go to Minnesota, you know, out to new West and we played Victoria new West and both, they both had really big squads and it was you knew it was going to be almost like goon hockey for the most part um and it was funny was when when we'd come back from the trip Jackie McLeod would be asked how did the trip go and he said well if no one got hurt it was good I didn't care if we won or lost it was more about are we getting

everybody back in one piece and uh really this my first or the would be my second year the first time that we lost in 75, that was really a strange thing because we went in there, that building. We went into that building. We said, hey, we're not going to let what they are going to do intimidate. I mean, Barry Beck, Harold Phillipoff, they had huge guys on that team. And didn't they skate to the other blue line? Oh, yeah. Sometimes they would take all your pucks.

Oh, yeah. It was like – it was ridiculous. You know, Ernie McClain, it was crazy stuff. But anyway, I think they had lost one game at home all season long. We went in there and won the first two games on the road in the best of seven. And we're coming home for three games, which we barely ever lost in our building. And we come home and we lose two or three. And we had to go back out there for the six and seven.

So we actually had a two-to-nothing lead going into their building, coming home, and then we had a three-two lead going into New West, and we lost both games back in New West in games six and seven. And the next year was the same thing, and this is what's interesting about it, is that the league was set up that when it was one year, it was the East to get home advantage. The next year was the West. And so it would flip flop. And for whatever reason, it was the time it was our second.

We had a way better record than New West that did in my that in 75. But because it was their turn, it was supposed to be in the West, so they had home ice advantage. Now, let's go a year later, all of a sudden, oh, no, they changed that. The Western Hockey League changed it. So now whoever has the better record is going to get home ice advantage.

So now New West got home ice advantage because they had a better record. So instead of us getting flipped, I mean, it was, and I always looked, I never did ask ed shin out that because i i would like to know was that an ernie mclean uh rule that he put in effect or whatever happened but it was bizarre but it was it was really really um it was scary hockey i think that everybody was on you didn't know if you were going to come out alive half the time because there was always stick

swinging and crazy stuff going on but um it was it was something that we just got used to and you just knew that you had to handle it and if you were gonna you know turtle or something you weren't going to get away with it you just had to go there and try to try to be as brave as you could and we really uh for the most part made us better players well you because you were their top player like i went through it like there were a lot like blair chapman was a first round pick williams on your team was a first round pick so like but you were their their star their scoring leader and you were the mvp of the league what did they do to you because the star players were always the targets back then well it was

really there was a there was a rule that came in at the start of the year that they had to change because if they if there was one fight started and anybody else got into another fight, everybody got kicked out of the game except the first fight. First time we went to New West, that's what happened. We started the game. One of the guys grabbed one of our guys.

We all grabbed hold because we're here because now we all got thrown out. I played one second of that one game. Chaffee and I both, one second because we got thrown out because they had to change that rule because great, brilliant thing, just start someone, start a fight, everybody's in,

and everybody's out of the game. That's one way to get the top guys out of the game. But, yeah, so, no, they did all kinds of stuff. But, I mean, for the most part, I mean, you would have a couple. And I think the thing about it for most guys was that they tried to intimidate. I mean, as a player, you know what you can do. You know what you're capable of. And, you know, you've got a stick in your hand. You can whack some. I mean, as a player, you know what you can do. You know what you're capable of. And, you know, you got a stick in your hand.

You can whack some. I mean, you don't have to drop your gloves. I had to drop my gloves a lot of times. But you whack the guy back or you let him eat the sticks, which, you know, you can't do anymore, obviously. But it was more of the chirping. I mean, there was just like, it was terrible. I mean, the talk. I mean, you had to have really thick skin because somehow if you listened to what they were going to say,

I mean, you'd be dead, you know, in five minutes before all the talk was going on. But, you know, they tested you and they tested us. And if you answered the bell, they kind of left you alone. They let you play hockey. So, I mean, it always started out grueling and brutal and bitter. But by the end of the second period, everybody in the game was close. Then they knew you couldn't take a penalty.

They took a penalty. It went to being real hockey for the most part. So I look, Bernie, like you still, you are the franchise leader in games played, in assists and points. And I was looking this morning and like there's no one really at this juncture threatening that for a while. Like I wonder how much pride you take all these years later that you still sit at the top there. And is it something where you would love for that to continue as long as possible?

Or do you hope the day comes where someone else takes that mantle from you? No, I think what Kyle's asking is if anyone gets close, do you go to Doug Armstrong and ask them to get traded? You know what? I hope that day comes. I mean, gosh, I've been retired since 1990. So it's funny. Someone asked me that question the other day, and I became the all-time blues leader in scoring on December the 13th, 1983.

And I know that because my middle son was born that day, and I went to the rink that night and broke Gary Unger's record. It was that same night that he was born. So that's a long time ago. I mean, that's 40-some years ago or whatever it is. So, yeah, you know what? It's time. I mean, I think that I'm most proud of it during the era that I played in

that I was able to play as many games in that one uniform because we had no say back then. I mean, there was no collective bargaining agreement that allowed us to have no trade clauses or whatever. I mean, there was nothing that we could do. We had no say in anything. So I think that's something that I'm very, very proud of. And I was trying to be consistent as I could all my career. I was so disappointed when I got traded to Detroit at the end of my career.

That kind of broke my heart. But that's part of the business that has become in the years later on from that. But no, I couldn't be more proud of what I did. I love St. Louis. St. Louis is home. It's been home for us for an awful long time. But yes, I look forward to that time that someone is able to do that because St. Louis is a great town.

We've won a cup now. And I hope that there's, whether it's a Robert Thomas or somebody that's coming up that is going to be in a situation where they love the town and they love the city and have the success to stay as long as they can and pass all those records. The professor, Ron Caron. So when he was living in a home in Montreal, Glenn Ely told me, you have to do a piece on him. And I remember I always watched,

I mean, I saw the highlights of him on TV, what he was like in the press boxes. I was too young to cover him. But I went and we did a piece on him. And I'll never forget, it aired during a playoff series between Detroit and Calgary and how many people I didn't know

reached out and said, I'm really glad that he got a moment as he's a little bit older. Now, for those of you who are younger, there was nobody like this guy as a general manager. What are your favorite stories about the professor

and the wildest you ever saw him? Oh, he was always wild. I mean, he came in, he did things, I mean, he tore phones off the wall. He did things that you would never, it was funny, we were coming over here on the bus today, in the bus I was talking about, we were at UIC at practice during the playoffs of one year,

and he came in, kicked all the coaches out, and had a talk with us and basically told us we were all useless. He was showing we were down. I think we were down, I don't know, two games to one or something or win the series. And he came in, and he went on this rant, and he actually grabbed the goaltending, the gloves and the stick,

and he was showing us how to make saves and stuff. And he walked in and he said, the way we're playing, we have no chance of winning another game. And we all looked at each other, I guess we're not going to win another game. It made no sense. But he did things like that all the time. But you know what? He would be off the wall.

You could not talk to him after a game because he would go crazy because he brought up every mistake that was made. And if you ever talked to him after the game, you were the worst player in the league. He was going to trade you. He was going to get rid of everybody. You had to wait until the next day. And then he was back to being himself normal.

But he could not stop from panicking all the time, every time there was a game going on. And he wanted to fight guys. He tried to fight Glenn Hanlon the one night. I was telling this guy. Yeah, the one night telling yeah the one night up up in the press box yeah i mean but he did this that was ron was ron and we just we just understood it and we stayed away from him and you just not and if you ever when you were hurt you did not

want to sit with him in the press box because he criticizes everybody so bad on the ice that you were going i what's he doing to me when i'm playing? I don't even want to be there. But he really, no one brought more character to the game, and no one wanted to win more than Ron Krohn did. And it's a shame that he wasn't able to get that Stanley Cup, though, with us because he tried so hard to do it. And with Harry Orness's budget, he did an amazing job. You got another one? No, well, because he also talked about,

I was reading one line he had about you, was that you had a great ability to take, you know, maybe some average teammates and make them look like stars. Just the way you were able to complement those who you were on the ice with. And I just wonder where that came from, that ability. You know, I think that came more from Barkley Plager. I mean, Bark kind of once I start when I started in the minors probably the worst thing that happened but the best thing

to happen I didn't want to go who wants to be a first round pick and get sent to the minors no one does but when I went down to Kansas City and played Bark was this player coach and I learned more from him and that was what he said to me he said I'm going to play you with who you need to make a better player with. So I mean, Brian Sutter and I played together and whoever we had on our right wing, it didn't matter. We were going to make sure that they were going to play up to their best. And I took great pride in it. If someone gave me a guy that hadn't scored for 20 games, I was going to make sure I was going to get him a goal. So it was one of those things. And I think that came from Bark

more than anything else. And was delighted I mean it's a it's a team game I was a passer all my life and and I took great pride into that and I scored my goals basically from being around the net because that's you make your pass you go to the net you're going to get rewarded for it but no I took great pride in making the guys around me better players and the best players they could be and made me a better player as well. But I mean, I loved playing with Wayne Babbage. I mean, Mark Hunter came and scored 40 goals with us a couple of times, Joey Mullen. So we really had a good time and we were really close knit and no one knew where we were in St. Louis. We were in the middle of nowhere there and we were fine with it. We just, we came to play every night and try to do the best where we could

for the city, for ourselves and to try to win. And that was all we could do. I have a couple more for you. First of all, I wanted to ask you now the draft, it's televised. It's, I mean, it's going to be different this year, but you know, everybody's there. All the kids are there and it's a big show. You were drafted at a time, you were a first round pick twice, the NHL and the WHA in the same year. I think you were seventh overall in the NHL draft and sixth overall in the WHA draft. First of all, like, what did you do on draft day? Like, did you have any idea what was going on? And secondly, how did you make that choice between which league to go to?

I'll answer the second question. I never wanted to go to the world hockey. I was going to the NHL. I did not want to play in the world hockey. I didn't know if there was going to be a merger or anything. And I always, my dream had been to play in the NHL. So no matter what was going to happen, I was going to the NHL. And then, I mean, of course, Blair Chapman and I played on the wing together.

And Blair and I had the same agent. And Blair knew he was going to Pittsburgh before even the draft. Second pick overall. He was second pick overall. And he signed with Pittsburgh immediately. And the thought we had is that, well, because we both got drafted by Edmonton, if we go to Edmonton, we can maybe cut a better deal if we're going both of them.

But as soon as he made the jump to go to Pittsburgh, I knew that there was not even any hope that I was even going to go to the World Hockey. But to answer your first question, I was at home with my brothers. My brothers are schoolteachers. They had just graduated from college, and they were schoolteachers in Saskatoon.

I was in their apartment with them, living with them for the summer, and I got the call from Jerry Eman at about 7.30 in the morning to tell me that the Blues had drafted me. And then I got a call a little later from Emil Francis and they were happy to have me. And that was it. That was the hoopla. And what did I do after that? I don't even know. Probably probably had a beer or two in the afternoon but I really it was it was you know anything about St. Louis at the time no I had no I had to look up on the map I didn't have any idea where it was so yeah it was one of those no I really did not know and and really it was funny and then I looked at the roster and going why would they even draft me

you got you know you get Red Berenson you get Gary Unger you get Derek Sanderson you get Larry Patey and I'm going where am I fitting in on this? It didn't make any sense of that. So I was happy, of course, disappointed that I'd gone because I was actually sitting in, during the Memorial Cup, I was in Montreal with my agent, David Shetty was my agent in Montreal, and we actually sat in a meeting with Max McNabb, and they told me they were going to take me first overall in the Capitals.

And they took Rick Green, right? They took Rick Green, and I went from thinking I was going to be first, I went all the way down to seventh. And two of my teammates, Blair Chapman and Fred Williams, went ahead of me. So I was obviously kind of in a state of shock when I found out that I was the seventh pick,

not first. Turned out pretty well. Yeah, it turned out great. You know what? Things happen for a reason. I always say that too. And the other one I wanted to ask you about was, I think it was 83 when the Blues didn't draft and the rumors were they were moving to Saskatoon.

First of all, how many of your teammates called you and said, where do I go? What's life like in Saskatoon? What was it like to be in the middle of that? You're stuck between a rock and a hard place. What was the Harold Ballard's line? That's where god left the snowshoes yes something yes yes and for that to be your hometown uh was really a difficult thing for for for me and my wife's from saskatoon too and it was really tough because we were in a situation where now we'd been in for seven years already and now maybe we're going to to Saskatoon. Well, deep down, we knew that Saskatoon's really too small.

I mean, there's no way they could support an NHL team. That's kind of the way we're looking at it. But, of course, Bill Hunter had other ideas. So we really played the fence there. We sat right on the fence there, and it was, I mean, guys called, and, of course, we said, hey, if we go, we go I mean it's that's home for us we we know lots of people to be playing in front of the hometown would have been a really neat thing because I played my junior there for three years but we certainly weren't going to come out and say one

thing or the other because if we stay and I say the wrong thing then that's a bad situation I say the wrong thing and we go we couldn't do. So we kind of just stayed on the fence. And it was really a trying time. But, you know, talking to my folks, to the Bernadette's folks, there's no way they said that hockey could be supported there, you know, at the NHL level. You would need the whole province of Saskatchewan coming and driving into Saskatoon.

And would that happen? I don't know. But it would have been nice to see. And I think either way, if we'd end up in Saskatoon. And would that happen? I don't know. But it would have been nice to see it. And I think either way, if we'd end up in Saskatoon, I think it would have been fine for me. But I'm glad it didn't. And not taking anything away from Saskatoon, but I think when you look at what's happened with the league

and with the money, the salaries and stuff, it would have been hard in a town of 200,000 to really make the league work there in Saskatoon. Okay, last one for me, Bernie. I look at you 68 years young, and you still have a beautiful head of hair. What is the key to keep it looking? I'm like you. Well, I'm asking for my own curiosity, and I'm going,

how do you keep it looking so good all these years later i have no idea my my dad was 93 when he passed away and he had the full head of hair too so my really i have three brothers and they all are basically uh one's totally bald the other ones they patches of baldness and i have none so i have no idea what it is uh i guess i'm just lucky my mother had a full head of hair the whole time too so I always wondered if I was adopted to Ron Don Ken Bernard where did that come from I have no idea but I'm glad I have it and you know what I've had it all my life so I don't know what to do without it oh well you would notice that because

you're the he's hopefully like this is the closest we've got to someone's going to look like that when the guy gets older I mean just the last thing for me is I just remember Bernie the night the Blues won the cup and obviously you weren't a player still at that time but I mean you're wearing blue right now you are a blue and just what what it was like that night in Boston to see the Blues finally do it. It was probably one of the special moments of my life. As a player, especially the time I spent in St. Louis, I mean, that was my dream, to be able to hoist a cup, to win a cup for the city of St. Louis.

And it didn't happen, of course. So I've been fortunate. I've been part of the Blues with the broadcast and stuff for all these years. So it was a fulfillment of a lot of, I guess, what we call anxiety and dreams, not just for me, but for our alumni. We've got like 60 guys that still live in San Luis. The city of San Luis has supported hockey forever and are just so rabid about

the game. And all the people I've watched in the stands when the team has lost out, the disappointment on their faces and all the stuff that has happened. And to be able to just see the excitement, not only on the players' faces, but everybody around. I mean, the fans, my family at home, all that stuff. it was just one of those moments where you just have to take a deep breath and say, wow, this really happened because there was always the thought, am I going to be dead before this happened? And there's so many people that said that, but the joy of that moment and bringing that cup back on the – it was funny.

When we got on the plane to go to Boston for game one, I said to Tom Stillman, the owner, I said, Tom, wouldn't it be nice if this went seven games and we got to ride with that cup, we get to bring it back on the charter by ourselves, just us. And he goes, yeah, you know, we don't want to wait until seven games.

Let's do it fast. I don't want to wait that long. And then when we got on that plane with the cup, coming home in game seven, Yeah, you know, we don't want to wait until seven games. Let's do it fast. I don't want to wait that long. And then when we got on that plane with the Cup coming home in game seven, it was just pandemonium. It was like no one sat down. It was just – I've never had really a feeling experience like that. And it went on for weeks after that, which was so great. I think everybody in the city of St. Louis got to touch it or see the Cup

because it went everywhere. And I'll never forget that moment. Did you get dunked in the Cup too? I remember Stolman did. I did. I think everybody in the city of St. Louis got to touch it or see the cup because it went everywhere. And I'll never forget that moment. Did you get dunked in the cup too? I remember Stoneman did. I did. I did. I got doused and it was, you know what, I brought an extra set of clothes just in case that happened.

I was hoping that would happen and it did. So yeah, we had an extra set of clothes changed after that and, you know, I could have got dunked 10 more times. It would have been really good. Awesome. Bernie, this has been such a thrill. Thank you so much. Gentlemen, my pleasure.

Thanks for having me. Okay, a final thank you to Bernie Federico and the St. Louis Blues for making that happen. That'll do it for this edition of 32 Thoughts. A reminder for those looking for more hockey to consume over the weekend, Friday night, actually, on Sportsnet One, you can see the Vancouver Canucks and the Nashville Predators, 9 o'clock Eastern, 7 o'clock Pacific time. Then on Saturday, it is a busy night for Hockey Night in Canada,

the usual Hockey Central Saturday, 6.30 Eastern, 3.30 Pacific, a trio of early games. The Bruins are in Toronto, Montreal against Nathan McKinnon and the Avalanche, Detroit and the Winnipeg Jets, and then not one but two late games. The Predators, again, continuing their Western

road swing. They're in Calgary and the Edmonton Oilers in Seattle to face the Kraken. We understand there's only 24 hours in a day and we appreciate you spending some of your time here with us have a great weekend we will talk to you again on monday