32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Dallas Green

Episode Date: July 19, 2023

He's an award-winning musician with a busy summer of touring, but Dallas Green (Alexisonfire & City and Colour) found time ahead of the playoffs to sit down with Jeff and Elliotte for a lengthy chat about how the pandemic reinvigorated his passion, playing in legendary venues, opening for Rage Against the Machine & The Red Hot Chili Peppers, how athletes and musicians have to find a level of obsession and an ability to set aside criticism, his writing process, and he tells us about his feature piece with Ryan O’Reilly at Massey Hall (which you can watch HERE)Alexisonfire Tour DatesCity and Colour Tour DatesEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailMusic Outro: City and Colour - A Little MercyListen to the full track HEREThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Dine Alone Records, Sportsnet, and Still Records.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

That's the only bicycle. No, I get it. Oh, do you have like, I like being on a bus. If I can tour, this is your favorite. I hate buses just because I'm, I think, again, I'm just accustomed to that to driving. Yeah. You know, I spent so much of my young, early twenties, just driving around North America in the van that it just feels more comfortable to me. Just when you thought it would be safe to go back to your favorite podcatcher. Welcome to 32 Thoughts to Podcast presented by the GMC Canyon AT4X. Just Jeff Merrick with you here today on a lovely summer evening. So we might be in full off-season mode, but we thought we'd drop a special interview episode as we're kind of in music festival season, right? So we interviewed Dallas Green of City & Color and Alexis On Fire in season two of the podcast,

and that conversation was pretty memorable. Since then, the Juno-winning artist has released a pair of records, and we even saw Alexis On Fire drop their fifth album after a 13-year hiatus. Now, ahead of the Stanley Cup playoffs, Elliot and I were invited to Dine Alone Records in downtown Toronto for a lengthy chat with Dallas. He was so generous with his time. Things we talked about.

How the pandemic reinvigorated his passion. Playing in legendary venues. Opening for Rage Against the Machine and a great Flea Stories. He talks about the Red Hot Chili Peppers. The intersection between athletes and musicians. All under the umbrella of obsession. His writing process, mishaps and touring. And he gets into his feature piece with Ryan O'Reilly at Massey Hall, which is in our show notes. So here you go. I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did talking to the man.

It was Dallas Green, City in Color and Alexis on Fire on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Enjoy. We wrote the whole Alexis on Fire record in that room over there. First of all, Dallas, thanks so much for inviting us here to Dine Alone. This is a gorgeous, gorgeous spot. What can you tell us about where we are right now this is a building built on imagination really you know joel my longtime manager and owner of dynalon records gotta say his last name joel carrier okay yeah joel carrier uh he bought this building as a as a shell years and years ago i can't even remember the year where he actually acquired it. And we're in a sort of industrial-ish area of Toronto. It wasn't like a burgeoning part of the city really yet.

Yeah, Joel had this vision, right? He was following some other things that he had seen in his travels and stuff as like where kind of like a clubhouse vibe where you could house. Because we're all internal, right? We have a record label. The management is Joel as well and he there's all these other labels that come off of Dine Alone and so it was like trying to find a place where you could have all of that but also have a record store have a venue space have an office upstairs have an entertaining space just like an all-encompassing building built on the imagination

that had carried us from St. Catharines to a point where we could even think of something like this. That's kind of it. Great spot. Yeah. Became really handy during the pandemic. I would imagine. You know what I've always been curious about you? Why do hockey people like you so much?

What is it about your... Because everyone that I talk to... I saw on my way to work this morning, I was talking to our assistant program director at the fan. Oh, I just listened to Dallas like last night before I went to bed. Talked to Jeff Jackson at Wasserman, Connor McDavid's agent. Love Dallas. Oh, I'd love to meet the guy. I love his music.

Seen him live so many times, being my wife, et cetera. Like everyone in hockey that we talk to about you adores you. Why? Well, i would maybe say that they're a bunch of softies you know all hockey people are secret softies you won't see that over the next eight weeks you know you know what i mean and like i really don't know the answer to it but um i know like for instance some of the guys that i've become friends with, I can tell why they like the music. I think they hear something that resonates with them in the lyrics, not just the music. Because I think a lot of these guys are deep thinkers.

They don't get a lot of credit for it. But in order to play the game that way, play the game at such a high level, you have to be able to maintain a lot of ups and downs. game that way play the game at such a high level you have to be able to maintain a lot of ups and downs right and i think my music i've always used my music as a way to cope with those ups and downs and i write about that that's sort of where i like to i like to write about those uncomfortable uh it's like the corners do you know what i mean that's what i like to write about i like i like writing about those difficult moments in life and how to get through them and so maybe that's what it is I don't know I don't know you know I've always had this like I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of big

tough strong dudes who tell me their my music really helps them kind of deal with their emotions and their feelings I believe it is there a song in particular that you think really resonates? No, but like, okay, so Rye, let's take Rye for an example. He, and then we're talking about Ryan O'Reilly.

Ryan O'Reilly. Yeah. Sorry. I don't know why this is his jam, but like one of his, like what he calls a sneaky pump up song is like a song from my first record. That's just like a six and a half minute slow, real weepy,

sad song. You know, it's called hello i'm in delaware so there goes my life passing by with every exit sign And that's where I was like, he puts that on before he's about to go on the ice. You know, I have no idea how that gets you to go out and possibly fight somebody or like, you know, take huge hits or give them out or, you know, but for some reason that's a song that maybe it's a childhood thing. Cause he listened to that when he was younger, his brother got him the music i don't know but i've had a lot of conversations with these big dudes like especially from coming from alexis in the hardcore scene right and then

branching off and like you know sort of showing my vulnerability see i think i'm glad you got there because i think that's i think that's part of it yeah i think because you have that alexis side to you that it seems like it's okay for me as a hockey player, hockey person, whatever. Right. To feel like this because I can still, you still appeal to the Alexis side of them as well. Sure. Does that make sense? Absolutely.

Like am I reaching for something that's not there? No, I don't think so. I think we would be, for us not to correlate that, like we would just be removing an entire chapter of it all. Right. It's like, how can it not be part of it? It's because it's like, I started in this one band that,

you know, people thought, Oh, that's how he is. And then I showed another side of myself and they're like, Oh, he can do that too. Right.

But it's like the aggressive stuff almost gives credence to the, the vulnerable side. Cause it's like, it shows that I can be angry or something. I don't know. You know what I mean? But it's like we're all men of a certain age. We know how we were raised and what era we were raised in. And we're not supposed to talk about. We're not supposed to show vulnerability.

Right? So I think part of it is that i think it's just like i give them you know agency to feel okay about their emotions before game two of the toronto tampa series we're going to air a piece where you sat down and did an interview with ryan o'reilly at massey hall in toronto and actually in this beautiful building we're in there are two removed Massey Hall seats from where the building was first built in 1894 I think stuff like that is really cool yeah but tell us how that came about and tell us about the conversation yeah well okay so obviously I've known Rye for a bunch of years now I met him when he was somebody had told me that he there was a kid

that played for the Avalanche that liked my music but I didn't meet him until he was... Somebody had told me that there was a kid that played for the Avalanche that liked my music, but I didn't meet him until he was on the Sabres. Because my buddy Kyle Quincy had sort of connected us, right? Because they... I don't remember if they actually played together in Colorado. In Colorado. I think they would have overlapped. They knew each other from just little town Ontario, right?

Like, Quincy's from Orangeville, I think, and Ry's from Bayfield. It's like, you know... Not far. Yeah. That's... By the way, just to go back to what you're i think there's a bit of that too there's a lot of that small townness that you can't escape just being from one and i think a lot of these guys that i meet we just have that easy kinship of like being from somewhere kind of getting away from it but still wondering if you can hold on to it you know what i mean there's just that like uh that sort of like-mindedness i think that exists in it too but um with rye uh we just sort of like connected and became just

messaging pals right and again i think we were able to talk to each other because he liked my music i think he's a good hockey player but we live a similar life where you're just doing this thing you you did when you were younger but it became your life you travel you kind of got to perform there's all these similarities that you can just you don't have to talk about they're already there right so common ground. But a couple of weeks ago, yeah, I got a call asking if I'd be interested in doing a little sit-down with Rye for a segment for Hockey Night in Canada, which is obviously, yeah, I'm going to say yes to that. But I think the fact that it was at Massey and it's in Toronto, obviously, because Rye's now a Leaf, there was this real kind of cool

opportunity for us to just talk about our friendship, but also talk about the similarities of what we do. And he's a huge music guy. And obviously, I'm a big sports guy. So I think it'll be cool. So we got hooked up, one of my good friends, Quince. Quince, yeah. Quince, he connected us.

But we, OK, before you start, I didn't meet you while you were playing in Colorado, right? I was with Buffalo then, came to that Niagara show. Yeah, at the winery. Yeah, it was just incredible. So like, what, there was maybe not even a thousand people there? Intimate and interactive kind of thing. Yeah, which was so cool. But then we connected there and then we actually really got to hang out. It was in Winnipeg, 2019 playoffs. 2019, rise in the playoffs.

I think he did pretty well that year. But I was on tour with Alice in Chains and the merch guy for Alice in Chains was from St. Louis and this just monster blues fan, right? And I was like, oh, my buddy plays on the blues and he was like, who? And I was like, oh, Ryan O'Reilly. He's like, Ryan O'Reilly? And I was like, oh, my buddy plays on the blues. And he was like, who? And I was like, oh, Ryan O'Reilly. He's like, Ryan O'Reilly?

And I'm like, yeah. But in my head, I'm thinking, I think Ryan's coming to the show tonight. So I'm going to do a little, you know? So we had Ryan up in the dressing room. And then we made John like there was an emergency. And he had to come up to the dressing room. And he comes up. And he's like, what do you need?

And I'm like, Ryan O'Reilly. And he's just like, no! I remember being so cool for me. Obviously just getting to hang out with you guys and such. But also seeing you with the Alice in Chains guys and how, like talking about them. I was like, this is kind of why you got into music. And honestly, it made it a lot easier for me to talk to you. It was so special and such.

And here, there with them, the guys have done so much for you. It was just kind of cool. It kind of put like, I don't know. Well, it's like that inspirational relay kind of thing where it's like you, I feel like we can get caught up. I don't know if you feel this way, but I think we get caught up in what we're doing that we forget the way people will perceive it. Maybe before you met me, before you know me, you think, oh, this guy's music means something

to me, or he's this, you know, you look up to guys who play in bands, but then you meet them and you're like, oh, it's just a person. Yeah. Right? But then you can see me interacting with Jerry Cantrell, who's literally the guy who made me want to play guitar. Yeah. And that's, like, for me, to be able to see that, that was kind of like, it was crazy,

like just looking back on how... remember this funny do you remember that night your curfew was like 9 30 and chains went on at nine and you're like I'm gonna watch a bit and I'm like okay and then it's like 9 25 and you're beside we're beside on the side stage watching them and I'm like you gotta go and you're like maybe I could stay for it I'm like you gotta go like you gotta go you're in the Stanley Cup playoffs, you know? But you did go, and you won. When you talked with him, what was the highlight of your conversation? You know, it was neat seeing Rye open and talking,

because I think for him, too, what was nice was it was a different thing, sort of a different way for him to approach immediate requirements. He doesn't to talk to jeff so i really like that but you understand that right it's like i think he felt maybe like just okay to just chat because it was me asking him questions and vice versa but i think it was cool for him to he it was nice to see how in awe he was of the building you know what i mean because he's seen shows there but you come in and you're it's empty and you're up on stage and you're standing there and it's like even though it's been renovated it's still a pretty daunting place to and then i told him about the first time i played there and that was a cool little exchange and you want to hear how your voice sounds like selfishly like if i'm in an empty massey hall standing on stage i'm most curious what my voice

sounds oh yeah man and you remember when you were asking me off camera about buildings and like what makes it sound good i mean i think the design of that place is part of it but i think it just does a lot of the work for you i remember that was my sentiment when i walked off stage after the first time i sang there i was so nervous about it because you know you're you're almost stepping out into such history? But I remember coming off stage just so relaxed because I realized the building's doing it all for you. You know what I mean? You just got to open your mouth. Is Massey Hall your favorite venue?

It's up there for sure. Give me a big venue that you love and maybe another small venue you love. Yeah, I mean, those are my favorite size venues, like the theaters that are about 2,500. Because I feel like they're big enough to feel grand and feel like this moment, but they're intimate enough where you don't lose anybody in the back. I'm lucky that I've gotten to play a bunch of the hockey arenas.

I've gotten to play, like last summer, Alexis on Fire, we opened for Rage Against the Machine in Quebec in front of 90,000 people. I mean, you can't quantify that. What does it feel like? It's unimaginable. Do you have to calm yourself down? Are you almost going out there like a hockey player playing game one of the playoffs where they have to tone themselves down?

Well, especially because when we're going out there to play, we know there's going to be some people that know our band. But we're going on before one of the best live bands ever and one of the biggest rock bands ever and a band who hasn't really played that much and people are rabid for these shows right so we had to kind of go out there and we were you know we had our chest puff up because we were like we've got to lay waste to this stage you know we got to like prove that we belong in this spot yeah you know but there's a fine line where you don't want to especially like you go out and you sing as hard as you can sing on note one what do you got left for the last note do you know what i mean oh yeah

so there was a lot of that like a lot of us looking at each other like you know but then you look at 90 000 people and it's't, yeah, it's hard to explain. Let me ask you about that sensation, looking out there at 90,000 people. I mean, that is just like an absolute mass of humanity and geez, I'm reaching here. I think it might be Napoleon, but I'll get the quote right, which is quantity has a quality all of its own. Yeah. When you're looking at that volume of people and they're all staring at you i'm always curious what what happens in between the years how do things not change like okay this is what

we plan to do but then there's this yeah i mean that's an that's a very good question because i think i've struggled with that the whole time i've been doing it, right? Because especially with music and art, there is no right or wrong necessarily. There's no winner or loser. There's no good or bad. There is just perception, you know? And so you never want to go out and sort of like play and then use that moment as a barometer for how you're going to change

because you did it in that moment as a barometer for how you're going to change because you did it in that moment, right? It's not like you won 16 games and you're hoisting the cup and going, okay, we're the best this year, right? And you can probably use that against your next contract and all that stuff. With what I do, it's never about anything like that. So I've always had a difficult time balancing was that a good moment and should I feel good about it or should I just stay totally as measured as possible and go like let's try and do that again the next night do you know what I mean and not let it try to change this person who I just wanted to make music and I'm still doing that. And I feel good about that. Do you know what I mean? It's an interesting divide for sure.

I always look at it as a, have a process and approach and then see what the moment takes you. Yeah. It's like Jeff and I always laugh about my grandmother's line, like great plan. God laughs, right? Right.

Like, I'm sure you have a similar approach to every concert to be prepared. Yes. And then there's probably nights you walk up there and say, wow, like this crowd is dead. I better get them going. Absolutely. And there's probably nights you walk up there and say wow like this crowd is dead i better get them going absolutely and there's other nights like that night with rage against the machine where you're like we don't have to do anything like we're going yeah yeah yeah absolutely like or you walk out on stage and like note one something

breaks you know or you know or like i go to plug hit my guitar and it's just in that second my amp has decided to not work. It worked totally fine. We did a two-hour sound check. And then you get up, and then you have to audible. Two weeks ago, we opened for the Red Hot Chili Peppers at the stadium in Vancouver. That's a crazy experience.

We get dropped into this one-off show. They're doing this world tour. They have all these people opening for them. But I did the opening slot in Vancouver. Right. But it's like, you're flying in for a one-off show to go stand in a stadium. That's got 50,000 people in it. And you're, and you're sort of like huddled into a, where you can fit around their production and you just gotta be like, okay,

let's just be a great band, I guess. Like, you know, let's just hope that when we start,'re a good band and you know the 2 000 people that maybe know my music are stoked and the other 48 we hopefully don't bore them to death you know what i mean i assume that did not happen no i thought we killed it yeah to be honest no doubt you know my friend kenny who's my long time guitar tech he came with me he's like I think we finally found a building that can contain your voice. Which was a great teammate. Pretty massive. That made me feel good for a minute.

I'm curious about that, the dynamic. I love the Red Hot Chili Peppers. I read Anthony Kiedis' book. Just reading his book, I would guess he's a bit of a different dude. And in the creative creative business you probably meet like all kinds yeah who was maybe the craziest person you opened for and maybe who was the one who surprised you the most or you even worked with because you've led shows obviously too yeah well i did have like this beautiful interaction with like i didn't really meet any of the guys

in the chili peppers but i feel like the flea interaction i had was perfect it was like all i wanted from uh we were what we had just finished and we were kind of leaving our dressing room to kind of go walk down and get like a spot to watch them play and as we were walking they were getting golf carted to the stage each in their own golf cart but flea was on the top of his golf cart like kind of standing like surfing on it and i was like okay well that's perfect right and like they drove by and they gave us like the clap and we said thank you and then i thought that was nice that's all i needed right but then later on after the show i was going into the hotel and as i'm walking in flea is walking in at the same time and And we're actually going through the door at the same time.

And he looks at me. I look at him. I go, Flea. And he goes, hi. I go, I'm Dallas. He goes, hi. I go, I just opened for your band. And he goes, oh, yeah.

I didn't see it. And I was like, no, that's cool, man. I didn't. I was just telling you. And he goes, and this is it. I'm going to take this to my grave. He looks at me. He goes, gigs. is it. Like, I'm going to take this to my grave. He looks at me and he goes, gigs.

It's what we do. And that was it. And then off into the night we went. And it was like that to me, that was perfect. It was like. Let me, let me. I love that. I love that.

Pink hair, fluorescent pink hair, you know. He's incredible. Lakers sweatpants on, gigs, it's what we do. Let me use Flea as a jump off point. Yeah. So one of my favorite music documentaries is Let's Get Lost, Chet Baker's story. Flea's a big fan.

And some people might be surprised that Flea from the Red Hot Chili Peppers grew up and has always been a big fan of Chet Baker. Is there one person that we would be surprised, one band, one performer, that you could cite now that people would say, I didn't know that this person or this band was an influence on Dallas Green? I think the one that I would say that,

like most people that know me know this by now because I've said it enough, but I think Sade. Really? Sade is one of my biggest influences for multiple reasons. Watching my mother listen to Sade when I was younger, like Love Deluxe, that record with No Ordinary Love and Feel No Pain, that record is in my top five.

That's like a desert island record for me. It became that as I got older and became obsessed with music and melody and the female voice. But watching my mother listen to Sade when I was younger and seeing my mom's sort of face, which I would go on to realize this was my mom's like, she's feeling it face. You know, like people have that, like they hear a song and they go, something like that. I have this total just memory burning in my mind of watching my mom listen and sort of like it's a real,

as somebody who went on to want to make people react that way with music I make, that's like a real moment for me, right, with Sade. But then I just love her music, and I love her vulnerable songwriting, and I love her sense of melody you know and if you listen to my music i think if i point out like if you listen to this part i'm trying to do this shoday thing here and when i explain to people people totally get it you know but i don't think that's the first thing you're going to think of when you know when you listen to me i remember when i was in high school there was a time for about a year where she was in music. She was like the hottest thing that existed.

Yeah. I love her career too, by the way. She's only made over, what, a 30-year career? She's only made five or six full-length records. She takes these 10-year breaks. She goes away. Her work speaks for itself. She's never been this flamboyant.

She chose the pop. That sort of biggest thing in the world could have swallowed her up, but she got out of it. So there's all these things that I just really respect about her. Elliot's heard me tell this story before. The first time he smiled and giggled. We'll see if I get the same thing out of him this time. I'm always curious about musicians finishing a song and when they end it.

My wife's an artist. She paints, she draws, has wood burning. And one time I asked her, I said, how do you know when it's done? How do you know when to walk away? Like, how do you know when it's finished? And she said to me, and she put on this like phony really pretentious voice and she said jeffrey art is never finished only abandoned yeah i do it's great i think it's really fun it's perfect though jeffrey comma you like the performance of it yeah i do yeah the complete

disdain for the question how dare you no ask me a question? How do you finish? Yeah, I agree with her. I think, especially for someone like me who's like, I write the songs, I arrange the songs, I produce the records. So I'm in it for the whole process. So it's difficult for me to remove myself from it and say it's over. And I think if I did have my way, I would probably not release anything.

I do need people to tell me that it's, it's done in a way. Do you know what I'm saying? So you need someone to step in and say, yeah, because you'll, you'll just keep tweaking it, you know,

again. And I think it goes back to that conversation about the difference between, you know, sports and having the winner and a loser. And with a record, it's like, it is still just a snapshot of that moment. Right?

Like as soon as I start playing live, the songs change immediately because it's that version and it's the next version. So the record is just a snapshot of this moment in time when you were creating this idea you're only going to create the thing the one time right so it's like yeah how do you find there is no real end to it you have to just sort of decipher this is it i feel good about it you know it's it's almost that you you just sort of like you allow yourself to say it's done. It's that.

You have to, sorry, you have to allow yourself. Right. Listen to the 32 Thoughts Podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. let me circle back to that conversation quickly about about ryan o'reilly and we're looking for like we do a hockey podcast you're an amazing musician we're looking for these intersection points what jeff is trying to say that there's no reason for you to be talking to either of the two of us. That's what, that's what Jeff was saying. I love it though,

right? What we're saying is like, you're slumming at this afternoon, Dallas, like you must be like really bored this afternoon to hang out with me and Elliot, but no, these are my favorite kind of chats.

We're looking for like these, these intersection points. Okay. And sometimes when interviews, like when, when people from sports interview musicians, a lot of it seems really forced. And the one thing, I was thinking about this on the way over here today and saying to myself, you know,

the one place where music and sports really intersects is sort of under the umbrella of obsession. And you don't get to where you're at in hockey, for example, you mentioned Ryan O'Reilly, unless you're obsessed for a long time about what you do and dallas you didn't get to where you are without being obsessed yeah does that change as you age i mean what the old saying obsession is a young person's game like blah blah blah but does it change at all is the way that you're obsessed about music now different than when you were 20 years younger i don't think so you know i think there's more in my life so there's less time to obsess just specifically about it yep you know when i was younger and it and it really took hold of me it was like that

thing that you you would find in like rye or any of these guys who just said, okay, I understand what I have to dedicate myself to, whether it's going to work or not, you know, and that's sort of what I was when I was a kid. Like it just became this, it became this thing that not only that I was obsessed with, but also that I could, I could see it fit in with the way my personality worked. You know, I felt like I had some pretty good work ethic already there, whether it was trying to land a 360 flip all day while I was skateboarding on the same thing,

or trying to make the basketball team even though I was short, or trying to figure out a song on guitar when I was young that I couldn't. All these things of dedicating your time to something and truly obsessing over something. They were all there. But I don't think it's changed in that same way because I, you know, I think about the pandemic and I think the first couple of months, like everybody else, I definitely like leaned into the dread of the unknown and what's going on. and what's going on. But as soon as I had that sort of realization that,

oh, I have all this time, I have nothing to do but be obsessed with this thing that I'm completely head over heels in love with, and I made two records. As soon as I realized all I had was time to give in to the obsession, I was more creative than I've ever been in my entire life. So I would be mistaken if I said it's gotten less. I think almost more. A sidebar to that is practice. Right.

As a musician. And listen, for this podcast, we talk about athletes and practice. But as far as a musician goes, I'm obsessed with John Coltrane. And I can't stop listening to John Coltrane. I can't stop reading anything about John Coltrane. And I was reading something a couple of months ago and someone said, the thing about John that made John Coltrane so great is he practiced like he had no talent. Right. And like, and again, like that was his, first of all, that was his obsession, but he practiced as if he didn't belong there. Yeah. How do you practice?

practiced as if he didn't belong there yeah how do you practice well that's part of like going back to asking me like um does success change you or do you do you feel like you're different after you play these big shows or whatever no because i probably would have i probably would have got off stage pretty stoked about that gig opening for rage but i probably five minutes later would have started going through all the things I screwed up or I sang poorly in my own mind. So for me, I'm always wanting to be better. So I'm always trying to find new avenues with my voice. I'm always trying to be a better singer.

I'm always trying to be better at playing guitar. I know some people who just like they grow up and they don't want to write songs on the guitar anymore because it bores them because they've been doing it for so long and i think to myself wow isn't that nice to just be bored of the endless possibilities the guitar has a store for you you know i've never been bored by it because i look at it days i'll pick up the guitar and go i don't have any idea how to play this thing you know and i want to figure out something new and i want to get better at it because now i don't know what that like where that lies deeply in me you know that could be rooted in some other obsessive thing where you know never satisfied or we could go

crazy into that whole side of it but i think there's a responsibility to be better you know what i mean to want to get better to practice if you're given the opportunity to do this thing that you love and that you want to do there's no end guy do you feel like you owe it to someone or something you owe it to the the opportunity that you were given that's the way i've always treated it um i like that because i understand like where i started which was very at the very bottom and you know we built all this kind of with lots of different groups people have come and gone but this simple idea that we could succeed on our own terms right but we built it from nothing and it grew into this large thing. So I understand what nothing is, you know,

I've toured enough and played for nobody to understand what that feels like. So that every time I get to go out and play in front of people, I'm grateful for it. And I feel the responsibility to be good. Every time somebody walks into a room that they paid, you know, whatever they've paid to come see me parking and babysitters and all of that, you know, and that is also, that's tied into being, you know, practicing and making sure that you're at the top of your game, you know, at least that's how I've always just done it. Right. It works for me too. Right. Like it, it makes me feel like i'm doing something good what was

your i've made it moment the moment that you realized that this was going to be more than a dream and it was actually going to be your profession there's been some funny moments where i've just kind of realized okay my life is different now you know for sure like i tell this story a lot but the day i was walking around the west edmonton mall because i was there to play a show with alexis at their they have a venue there yep used to be called reds then it was called ed's now i don't know if it's called reds again d's like they keep on exactly right yeah but i was walking around and you know they have a skating rink there.

So I was walking on the second level, and I kind of stopped to look at all the people skating. And I sort of started to realize that my song, Save Your Scissors, from the First City and Color record, was playing on the radio. And all of these young girls were just figure skating on the ice at the mall to one of my songs from my solo band. and I was about to play a show with my other band, and I thought, okay, this is different, you know? So save your scissors For someone else's skin My surface is so tough I don't think the blade will dig in.

Save your strength. Save your wasted time. There's no way that I'll... And I feel like those next five years were really strange for me, where it just sort of like both bands were happening, and there was a real like, okay, I can do this now. Was it overwhelming? Yeah, man.

Of course it was. I always wonder how you handled that. Yeah. I mean, the whole thing. One of the things that Elliot and I have talked about, the nature of greatness and the nature of talent and the idea that one of the best things, I think, that creative people, successful people have is,

as we said before on the podcast, the talent to manage your own talent, which is its own thing very much. There's been a lot of, you've met them, we've all met really talented people that never get to the place that they want to get to because they just can't get their thing together. Yeah, absolutely. Right. So how do you have the talent to manage your talent? Well, Joel and Trisha were very important and have been very important in this whole thing. Joel Carrier, Trish Ricciuto, my managers who I've known since I was 15 years old. Having people like that in my life, Christina and my publicist has been with me the whole time. Having people that you trust around you as things are getting crazy is very helpful. I'll say that but i think

all of us that like the guys in alexis and stuff we've these last few years we've started to kind of realize how weird our life has been you know with like i think for so long we were just doing it and then we weren't and then i just continued doing it. That the odd nature of starting a screamo band in St. Catharines, Ontario, and then it becoming popular, and you're on much music when you're, like the guys in the band were in high school. And then I'm 25 years old, and girls are figure skating to my one song on the radio. These things are like, you were younger younger and you thought about these things.

And now you're like, you're going through that. Like we were talking about earlier, like you're trying not to let it change you because it's what you wanted. And you're just like, I'm just a musician. That's how I look at it. I'm a songwriter. So there was a lot of moments where we could have lost it.

You know, and I think we've done a really good job of navigating how crazy the waters have been in this whole 20-year journey that we've been all doing it but i think the fact that we're all still together and we're all still like succeeding is a testament to how everybody managed the situation that's not easy no it's not because even your best friends or your best partner there's going to be times you blow up at each other. Yeah. And you've really got to love someone to hate someone. Absolutely.

Alexis, we won Rock Album of the Year at the Junos last month. And that's a weird sentence to say, you know, because there was a long time where you just never thought anything like that was possible. But Georgie, our singer, somebody asked him a question, like, what's the secret to the longevity of your band? And George said, it turns out breaking up your band is great for the longevity of your band you know what i mean it's true so it's like i feel like it's yeah it's how we've managed all

of those times all of those like what's the biggest fight you guys ever had i quit the band you know what i mean like i was that probably wasn't even our biggest fight actually that was just like okay we have many bigger fights than that yeah i don't think they're good stories for the internet oh actually that makes me think they're great stories for the internet it might be yeah i have to get some release forms from the guys before i start speaking out of school like that did you see the uh fire fest documentary oh yeah and did you see that what was the other one on netflix i've played festivals like that oh And did you see that? What was the other one on Netflix? I've played festivals like that. Oh, that's my question.

What was the other one on Netflix? I'm forgetting the name of it now. It was a big one in the 90s. Oh, the Woodstock one. Woodstock, yeah. So have you ever played anything like that or seen anything like that? I mean, not to the Firefest extent because that was just like, you flew all those people there.

And Woodstock was obviously just like, you know, you flew all those people there and Woodstock was obviously like, uh, you know, but I've, yeah, I've played so many different festivals like that around the world. And like, it's so crazy. Cause if you only knew how poorly run so many of these things were like

last March. So when the sort of, it was time, we're going to go back on the road. We're going to try it. Alexis, we started our first show after the pandemic was Lollapalooza in Chile. Wow. Fly to Chile and play at Lollapalooza, the big giant festival, right?

Yeah. So it's like, just throw yourself into the fire and see if it still works, right? But I remember we got to the festival. All of our crew and stuff had gone early to set up. We were playing like mid-afternoon, maybe closer to dinner. So usually it's a big thing like that. You get there, you try to get there an hour before, maybe. Maybe two hours.

Depends on if there's like a band you want to see. Because it's what you do, right? It's like you know what a festival is like you don't necessarily want to go until you're playing but we showed up and the guy who was driving us just he couldn't he didn't know where our stage was he just couldn't find it so we just this is your hello cleveland spinal tap moment we get into the festival grounds and you know like i'm calling our tour manager juice i'm like juice where's the stage and he's like the guy knows where it is i'm like he does not know where it is you know and he doesn't speak any english and none of us speak spanish and so he's going this way and i can now i'm like

looking out the window and i see the stage and he's going this way you know he's going left and we spent 50 minutes in the van on the festival grounds just trying to find the stage like he's now i'm like i'm on the phone standing in the van screaming at our tomb raider juice he doesn't know where it is you know and wade our our other guitar player he's trying to he's trying to talk to the guy and then the guy's pulling over he's driving now through the festival crowd in the van oh he's pulling over and he's like asking random strangers do you know where this stage is finally we just you know we get there an hour later and play the show and it's wonderful but like that is touring in a nutshell yeah right there you know the show is almost the last thing possible right it's all just moments like that but as far as like crazy riots and things like

that i've thankfully never, I've never been around for all the shows I've played. Just, just goofy stuff like that. Yeah. You know that you can handle. Oh yeah. That's stuff.

It becomes the best part of the story. Okay. Criticism. Sure. So I mentioned as a big John Coltrane fan, huge Frank Zappa fan. Yes. He once said,

and he hated critics, like deeply, deeply hated critics and he would say writing about music is like dancing about architecture okay that was that was one of his big ones how do you handle criticism this is something that elliot and i deal with on a daily basis yeah this is something that athletes hockey players everybody deals especially now in the social media world yeah we all deal with how do you handle it well i mean a good way that i deal with is i don't go on social media that's very helpful i've never tweeted which is nice i like how you say that proudly that makes you like the smartest man at this table feels good yeah uh you know we have a twitter but

my my team does that i've never made it about me. So that's helpful. So I don't, I don't really go on there just to read the good or the bad, but as far as criticism goes, like I've been dealing with it long enough that I understand that it is just, it's just part of it.

You know what I mean? Like you, I've never been under the assumption that I was going to make music that everybody would like, you know, It's just part of it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I've never been under the assumption that I was going to make music that everybody would like. I don't like everything. I'm very opinionated. I'm critical of other things. So of course people would be critical about my own music.

So for me, part of it is if I do find myself watching something on YouTube or whatever, and then i start venturing into the comments i do appreciate a real good zinger once in a while regarding myself you know i think those ones stand out to me because i just think they're funny like i do really like like when somebody's like actively mean you know because i it's funny i can think i can see so you could read mean tweets like you know that i'd love to okay yeah i would love to i think it's like i just think it's hilarious you know but there's a deeper thing for me with that like i i love just a good zinger but i also love that like that's what this person's contributing that's funny to me um but as far as like a journalist writing something

critical about my art or whatever like i never really pay attention to much of it but i also like it goes back to that not letting things change you i don't pay too much attention to the good either like i take a compliment and i appreciate it but i try not to let it sway the way i would then go on and create you know I always try to create from the place of let me make something that that appeases this thing in me that that I need that I've always needed since I was a kid writing creating singing all of this let me make something that I can be proud of and then just let it grow wings that's how it's always been for me

so I appreciate when people like I said we won rock album the other it's beautiful it's amazing but this is what I'll end it by saying this I I recently heard most deaf or Yassin Bey say it is not for me to treat my gift as an achievement it is what I do with my gift that is the achievement and I just gift that is the achievement. And I just thought that was the most beautiful way to put it, right? So yeah, in this hypercritical world, I just try not to pay attention to any of it. It's great stuff, smart stuff, great advice. So I want to ask, what's your dream gig?

Like if somebody came up to you, Dallas Dallas and said, you get to do this. You know what I've done? I've done a lot of them. I really, I really have. I've been really lucky to have played a lot of the buildings. I was wanted to play, you know,

I've gotten to meet and play with a lot of these people that I respected when I was younger, like touring with Alison chains or, you know, meeting Ben Harper, who was a big, big one for me when I was younger, like touring with Alice in Chains or meeting Ben Harper, who was a big one for me when I was younger. He's opening for us this summer at Budstage, which will be amazing. But meeting Ben a couple of years ago was really, really big for me. After I met him, I went out and opened for him at Red Rocks in Colorado, which was a huge... I opened for him at the Hollywood Bowl in LA. It's like, I've gotten to play a bunch of these really beautiful places

around the world. And I think a lot of the places I never really thought I would end up in are some of my favorite places too. Just like, you know, weird random, like when we played in Adelaide, Australia for the first time, like I never could have imagined myself being there. And that show is still in my top five you know so i played the royal albert hall in london england you know like i've i really feel grateful for all the opportunities i've i've already uh had so i i think for me the dream really would just be able to continue to do

it you know do you have you mentioned ben harper a second ago and right away my brain going so what are my favorite live albums live at mars yeah man it's just fantastic um do you have a favorite or some favorite live albums neil's uh live at massey hall that's phenomenal is like that was a really really important record for me just because a because it's just him by himself which i was sort of like when i started making that type of music just more standing by myself with a guitar it's hard not to look at neil as like a north star right but the listening to the vulnerability of that record where he's like you know he's just he's working on heart of gold he's working on man needs made and he's he plays them you know he's like i'm right Gold. He's working on Man Needs a Maiden. He plays them.

He's like, I wrote this song about a ranch I just bought. And there's an old man that works. And he just sings the old man because he's working on Old Man at Massey Hall. That record is great. And then really, another one just for importance of being younger, like sitting and listening to the woodstock live like the record with my dad being young and him like you know showing me santana's performance or 10

years after and like and then watching the concert that was big just seeing like being young and seeing like live music on such a scale it was like. Let me ask you about the latest. Tell us about the latest album. Yeah, it's called The Love Still Held Me Near. Most of the songs are sort of rooted in grief and experiencing a lot of loss in my life in that period. But for me, I think it's more about the journey through that. And I think it's a hopeful record. How long did it take you to write this one?

We need hope. Yeah. Yeah, that's where I was sort of ending up. It was like, instead of leaning into the grieving side of it, I thought I'd try to lean into how do you get through that. But so for me, I started writing the songs in february of 2020 that was probably when i wrote the first bit of the first song and by i guess i was done by december that year you know but like i said i kind of went through that crazy creative period where

we wrote all the alexis songs and i wrote all these songs in like a seven month stretch of just sort of explosive creativity. The reason I'm always curious about, you know, how long it takes someone to create something like that is, and maybe I'm sure you've found this. Sometimes you feel like a song doesn't fit with this album, but you know what? One that you wrote 10 years ago might, you know, with a fresh coat of paint. Yeah. There's a song, there's a song on this record called the water is coming that i wrote originally for my

last record and it was the version that i recorded for my last record and didn't put on is very dark and very very hopeless and i was writing it from a very very negative perspective and i think i left it off the record because of that and then as i was kind of unearthing some older ideas just to see what was in there because that's always fun to kind of mine a few of you know they're nick cave uh he doesn't like doing that he he he warns against going back to the the old stuff but i like mining it i always think there's something you know he left it off for a reason but. I always think there's something, you know. You left it off for a reason, but it was created for a reason, you know.

But so I went back and took this song and literally rewrote it from a hopeful perspective. And it became this, like, one of my favorite songs on the record because it needed exactly what you said. It just needed a new coat of paint. Knocked down a few walls in it, too, actually. Yeah, open it up a little bit let some light in renovation right right yeah

is this the thing we face Cause you will not care for me So I will not care for you This may sound like a weird one and I don't even maybe know what I'm asking but I'm going to throw this out there anyway. You know, we're in this wonderful spot and I'm looking at your new album and I'm thinking about things that i love listening to on vinyl yeah more

than like when i listen to like robert johnson i wanted to hear robert johnson on vinyl right where do you think your music fits best i would say vinyl yeah that would be my answer why why would any musicians say otherwise yeah i think so i think you have to be from a certain like because i i don't think like i also don't think that's the right answer you know what i mean it's just my right answer yeah because there's kids that are making insane beautiful music on iphones to be listened to on an iPhone. That's how they create. And that's how they, but I think just for me, coming from the era of something physical to go along with the song where

you're like, you know, you create the record to be put on and sat and listened to. I mean, that's the dream of an artist is you want to make a record. You want to put all this time and effort into a record and have somebody sit and spend some time with it. Now, obviously, streaming and all of that has thrown that completely out the window. But at the same time, vinyl's never been more popular

than it is right now. That's great. And I think there are a lot of people who used to love it who are realizing that they could still love it now. And then I think there's a lot of young kids who are like, I want to hold something. And see artwork. And I want to open up the jacket.

And I want to flip the record. And I want to have it be tactile, like a tactile experience to go along. And it's not just like in the ether. So that would be my answer. I love it. This has been a lot of fun. Fantastic. Yeah, thanks, guys.

Thanks for coming. Dallas, thanks so much for your time. Appreciate it. Thank you for coming to our spot. It's beautiful. Thanks. Really hope you enjoyed that. The full video of our conversation with Dallas can be found on Sportsnet's

YouTube channel. Alexis on Fire is currently on tour and City in Color hits the road in August. Their tour dates can be found in our show notes. We'll leave you with a track from City in Color's latest record, The Love Still Held Me Near. By the way, I've listened to Mint to be probably at least once, maybe twice, most days, three times every single

day this summer. That's how great this song is. That's how great this album is. This album is deeply emotional. It is vulnerable. It is beautifully written. And here's City and Color with a little mercy on 32 Thoughts the Podcast. Enjoy the rest of your summer. We mean it this time. When the beat still stirs, am I unfit to guide? And now I'm weeping towards the sky, for what sees back into the earth? Are we not supposed to love in fear of losing someone? Are we too afraid to feel too many wounds to heal? Will they ever heal? We'll be right back.