32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Do Not Overreact to 2 Games

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

In today's episode of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman begin by delving in the Buffalo Sabres rough start to the season. They jump into Saturday Headlines and Lane Hutson's contact negotiations (12:21). The fellas talk more about next year's cap and what they expect from the BOG's (18:41). Kyle and Elliotte revisit Saturday's hockey action, including Chris Pronger's debut on Hockey Night in Canada (25:14). Elliotte clarifies a puck over glass penalty he didn't understand on Friday's podcast (36:52). Kyle highlights Matthew Schaefer's first NHL goal (41:30). The guys talk about Mikko Rantanen turning heel and enjoying it (46:05). They touch on the strong starts for both the Panthers and Oilers (48:28). The Final Thought focuses on the bidding cities for the next World Cup of Hockey (51:54).Kyle and Elliotte answer your emails and voicemails in the Thoughtline (55:56).In the final segment, Kyle and Elliotte are joined by Wasserman's Judd Moldaver to comment on the Connor McDavid contract extension (1:15:19).Today we highlight Hamilton based band Lost Faculty and their latest hit, Lost Enough. Check them out here.Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemail.This podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates

A lot of things have been filmed in Vancouver, X-Files, Smallville, great show. How many things have been, if you were to do a list of shows or movies, elf that were filmed in Vancouver, how many would you do until you got to most valuable primate? A thousand, 10,000. So forgive me, I didn't realize that. Yeah, but, Elliot, this is most valuable primate. That's right. Not the prime eight that finished seventh in the voting.

It is the most valuable. Yes. Welcome to another edition of 32 Thoughts, the podcast, a happy Thanksgiving to all of our listeners north of the border and those who are celebrating that abroad. And everyone enjoying the lawn weekend down in the U.S. as well. Elliot Friedman is here. My name is Kyle Bukascus.

John Shemati is our producer. It was nearly... Hope you guys both had good Thanksgiving. dinners on Sunday night. You did your Canadian Thanksgiving dinners on Sunday. Hope they were excellent. Thank you. Thank you. It was nearly a picture perfect weekend until the lighter innings of Toronto, Seattle, but a lot of baseball to go. I have a saying, if it was easy, you wouldn't enjoy it as much. Is that your saying or is that Stephs? No, that's mine. that's mine. Okay. She certainly could qualify for that with all the crap I put her through from time to time, but that's my saying. So, Kyle, there were a couple of things said about you on the weekend that I wanted to relate to you before we got hard into the news here. Number one, you did a feature with William Nylander from Milan that aired during the pregame of Saturday show. And I'm not going to say who is.

this was, but someone looked at you on the screen and said, who put that pale guy into that white suit? Yeah. And I have to tell you, I told them that will be the lead of the podcast on Monday. And they said, that's fine, as long as you don't say who it was. But I was laughing so hard I had to include it. The second thing that I will say about you was that somebody from the Calgary area got upset that I still refer to you as an Ottawa Senators fan. They said, nope, he is not anymore.

He is now one of us. He is part of Flames Nation. If Kyle is going to reside in Calgary, he is now a flame. Wow. I'm surprised people didn't come at you. I heard you on the radio a couple of weeks back say that I moved to Calgary so I basically left Canada. I was surprised you didn't have the Westerners coming after you for that. This is the proof.

Nobody listens. Oh, sorry, Matt Marquay. Casey. And hey, you don't get much sun in the nursery. That's all I got to say. Yeah, that's true. As much UV rays over the summers in years past. That's good. Take them out for a walk, Kyle. Take them out for a walk. Well, way to lift me up here as we begin the voyage through another episode. Oh, my gosh. Well, I guess with that in mind, we might as well begin with the conversation with the Buffalo Sabres, Elliot.

it. And when you look at them two games in, they've scored one goal. They've lost both their games. They've given up seven. A lot of other situation you'd look at and say it's two games. Just take a breather. It's different there. Not just because of the playoff drought that dates back to 2011. But we've talked about just a weird kind of feeling from the outset of camp, the injury uncertainty. Leukekekeleukinen. There was just the rotten luck with Zach Benson taking the puck off the face at practice. Next thing you know, he's in hospital

for a couple of nights. And then the Josh Norris injury happens. Speaking of Ottawa Senators fans, they were sick to their stomach because they're going, how many times have we said that? Now, Lindy Rufft had said it wasn't related to the shoulder injuries

he's dealt with in the past, but either way, that looked awful. And then the comments from Lindy Ruff in the aftermath of their loss to Boston on Saturday where they mustered only two shots in the first period. Where do you want to start here?

I think the key is something that you said earlier and that is you do not want to overreact to two games and I do feel very strongly about that and knowing that this was something that we were going to discuss on the pod I wanted to sound measured

and calm as I discussed what I was thinking about the savers. And the thing that really stood out to me in the middle of all of this. And I think, again, and we talked about this on Friday, you feel terrible for Josh Norris. It's the way he went off the ice, he just knew. And it looks like it's going to be eight weeks at least for him, is what the word is. And you hope that's wrong and you hope he can come back. But now you're just worried, you know, every time, unfortunately, he takes a face off,

he has to be terrified that it's going to happen again, too. So it's just brutal to watch, top to bottom, just brutal for him. But the thing that really stood out to me was watching Lindy Ruff's postgame on Saturday night after they lost in Boston. And he was upset, but he was calm. I think the word I used on air when I showed the clip was measured. but someone else who has coached against Lindy Ruff for a long time said to me that when he saw the clip on our air

he went to go search it out and watch more of it and he said that he almost worried that Lindy Ruff looked resigned we had to lay up just raise our level compete I thought our compete was terrible worst compete in skating moving the feet that I've seen how does your team you've seen you gotta compete how does your team you need to create that sense of urgency right off the opening face off. Probably competing. It's not the guy that has the puck, it's the guy from away from it.

I thought we played some one-on-one hockey. We didn't move our feet. We didn't win races for the puck. You know, at the start of a game when everybody has energy, it's hard hockey, and we lost a battle. Hand-in-hand with what you're talking about. Do your best players have to be your best players if you guys are going to win hockey games? On any team, your best players have to be best players.

It was not a good night for them. I mean, we'll see the Sabres play again. They're playing on Monday. We'll see how it all goes. But if that coach is right about resigned as opposed to measured, it's an awful place to be just two games into an 82 game season. And the reason that I do think that it gets into dangerous territory here, for the Sabres quickly, is that we basically know that two of their franchise players,

Dahlene and Thompson, have indicated that it has to get better this year. That we just need to see improvement. We need something to believe in. And that's why I think the Sabres don't have a long runway for this. obviously they hired Yarmu Kekalainen last year as a senior advisor and I think those situations are always challenging because you always wonder if someone sees a person here could eventually replace them whatever the case you know there is somebody experienced inside the organization that if you want to make the change you can.

haven't even played hockey yet for seven days, but suddenly this feels like a very big week for the Buffalo Sabres. And it was early on last season as well, Elliot. Remember when Terry Pagula went and met with the team in Montreal because the season had got off to a brutal start then? Like Sabers fans listening to this are going, we've seen this movie before. And it feels like it's the same season. sequel over and over again.

And I mean, and there was the viral clip after the home opener, right? The one fan after the game, the frustration I'm going like I was six years old the last time they've made the playoffs and it just feels like they're no closer. Again, that was after one game. But because of what's gone on around there, the last number of years, the whole notion of it's early, it's early, give it time. There isn't that same patience anymore. doesn't feel it's really tough you know we talked about how they were one of a number of teams

that started really poorly right at home they had a bad first game at home and then you come out for game too like you look at the rangers the rangers lost their second game at home on sunday and they still haven't scored yet at madison square garden but they played a lot better Like that was, that was a really good game against Washington. Well, not a lot of goals, but it was a very, very competitive hockey game. You know, the Sabres come out in game two, and they basically get wiped out right away by the Bruins. Like the ice is tilted. What were the shots in the first period of that game?

Like 16 to 1 or something like that. Yeah, they have two shots. Yeah. So, I mean, it's just, it's tough. And, um, again, I don't, I don't need to believe. labor of the point any more than I already have, but you knowing what's on the line with two of your franchise players, it's a short runway. It really is a short runway. All right. Anything else on the Buffalo chapter here? Any other injury updates you're hearing or

anything of note before we move on? You know, the only other thing I wanted to mention was it seemed like a given when they put Georgiev on waivers that he wasn't going to go to the American hockey league. We'll see what happens, but there are, there was some talk on Sunday that maybe he will go to Rochester. Okay. So, you know, we'll plan. I could just to get playing. I mean, you know, nobody was going to sign him until the Sabers did because of the Lucan injury. So if he wants to play in North America, it's best for him to go play. So maybe someone mentioned that to him. You know, we'll see how it turns out.

But I was hearing on Sunday that he might actually go there. And that leads to another interesting situation because that's where Levi is supposed to play, right? Yeah. So only so many nets. Only so many nets. And they already have a couple other goalies, one of whom they sent down to the ECHL. We'll see what this all means, but it's, it's kind of late, early.

All right. So we're coming off the first Saturday of the season, first hockey night in Canada of the season, which meant the first Saturday headlines of the season. The second intermission of the early game, you and Ron at the desk. And the lead item this weekend for you, Elliot, was Lane Hudson. And the negotiations going on between player and the Montreal Canadians. It's been a hot topic on this podcast to say nothing of what's been said in the Montreal market. But as you said on Saturday, that negotiation is in a sense going off the air publicly for the next little bit, taking things temperature down a little bit.

Yeah, I think everybody here was worried about, A, it's Montreal, so everything is big. When it's the Canadians, it's big. in the old newspaper days, when people actually read newspapers, Kyle, the Canadians, they're always an A1 story. They're not a section D36 bottom of the right corner story. They're an A1 story. And I think they wanted to tone down the noise. And also, I do believe it was affecting Hudson, too.

You know, he's young. He's never really gone through this before. It's all over the place. everybody's talking about it it's not easy being part of this discourse for the first time so i think a lot of it was about that too let's just let him worry about playing now the other thing here is that there was there was some debate about whether or not talks had been completely postponed or they'd just been taken secret i always remember sergey bobrowski's first big deal after he won the Vezna trophy with the Blue Jackets, they said, everybody said,

we're not going to talk this year. We're going to talk to him after the season. And a deal got done during the year out of nowhere. I always believe if there's a willingness, you can get a deal done between both sides. So I'd still think they're talking. And I just think they're going to do everything in their power to go into the cone of silence so none of us eavesdropping unwashed can have an idea what's really going on here but that's the key thing i think for everyone here get hudson's name out of the news except for what he's doing on the ice And there's one assist in the first three games for the reigning Calder trophy winner.

That looked like a heck of a game between Chicago and Montreal on Saturday, Elliot looked mean. It was great hockey. Good drama at the end. Just lots of fun between two original six franchises. Oh, you should also mention, you know, bring up the topic of negotiation. Jud Moldaver, the agent of Connor McDavid.

He's going to join us later on in this edition of 32 thoughts for conversation and a little more insight into what went on all behind the scenes and getting Connor McDavid's two-year extension done in Edmonton. Okay, salary cap. By the way, I just want to say like that, that game between Montreal and Chicago, there was a lot of talent on the ice there, a lot of talent on the ice. We talked about Nazar, he looks really good. Connor Bedard looks.

a lot better, too. Whatever he did in the secret lab, aside from bringing trainers smoothies, as Kevin pointed out, he made sure that he was gifting his trainer's smoothies, which is a smart touch, always take care of the people who take care of you. He looks much faster, much stronger this year. And we'll see. They've played three games an 82 game season, and the Blackhawks have, unfortunately, for them, a long way to go here. They just don't defend yet to the level that you need to defend to win in the National Hockey League, but you start to see some of those players. Even Renzell, who scored his first NHL goal the other night, I think there were six guys

who scored their first NHL goals on Saturday. you know he looks like he's really going to be a player but you know there's a bunch of teams this year Kyle and Chicago's one and I think San Jose is another that they're going to be really fun to watch like their games are going to be high scoring high event games I'm just not convinced either one of them is is ready to win a lot of them yet but a lot of the fans are going to go home saying that was fun to watch in san Jose's case not really fun for the players because they collapsed twice at the end of regulation but nobody who bought a ticket was going home and saying hey that was awful to watch just not ready yet right 20 goals combined the first

two games for the sharks and just going back to badard opening night down in florida i don't know his first couple of shifts, maybe his second shift when he was Kim burning down the wing and that wrist shot that went over the shoulder, Bobrovsky and off the bar, like just talk about the release,

right? And just confident shooter. And it was like, okay. And every game he's looked noticeable in a variety of ways. And a bit of bite to him here now too. You're seeing more like lots of good signs.

I'll be it in a situation team-wise that as you say, still a long way to go. But it does feel a little different in terms of how they're going about competing in games for Chicago out of the gate than what we saw much of last season. You can see the hope.

It's just not there yet. That was a fun one to watch. Yeah, Anaheim, San Jose was fun to watch. You want to talk a little bit more about the Saturday games here now or you want to talk salary cap here? Let's do cap first and then we'll get back to the Saturday games.

And the reason is I had a manager asked me about, because I've written and said that, you know, next year's cap is supposed to be 104, and I've mentioned that we're starting to hear numbers like 107. There's a board of governors meeting this week in New York City on Wednesday. So we're all curious to see if anything gets addressed on that. Now, I didn't realize this,

but apparently Bettman was asked about it in Toronto. and he kind of poo-pooed it. And I just said, you know, we've seen this act before. So we'll see how it. Remember that finally. We'll just see how that plays out in the long run. So I'm under the understanding that the players have been told that there's money coming back to them. And the easiest way to explain this and the simplest way without getting too hung up in it,

The word escrow is every year a percentage of the players' salaries are held back in an escrow account just to make sure at the end of the year the revenues end up 50-50. And if they end up too much on the player's side, then that money goes back towards the league and the owners. If they end up too much on the league side, then that money goes back towards the players. Now, it's a good thing that Scott Moore is no longer running Sportsnet because when he hired me, he said, I don't want to hear the word escrow on the air anymore. And if I do, you're fired. So, Scott, I hope you're listening.

Escrow, you can't fire me. But basically, one of the reasons the cap never went up in the last few. years was because the players owed money to the league and the owners for all those games that were played with no fans and they'd reached a deal where the debt couldn't be paid off that quickly but now the debt's paid off and kaboom the salary cap has gone way up well basically the players have been informed that this year none of their paycheck is being withheld last year, if I remember correctly, it was 6%. This year, zero, that the predictions are strong enough and the revenues are strong enough that zero is being taken off their checks.

I can't remember the last, I'd have to look it up. I don't know if that's ever happened. I'd have to go back and check, but it's extremely rare. I don't know if it's ever happened. The highest I remember it being was around 2009. It was 22%. And the players were not happy. But now it's zero. So they're in a good spot. I understand too, the players have been told that they'll be getting money back from

2022, 23. They'll be getting money back from 23, 24, a full refund. fund of what was held. And it's also possible, never mind possible. I think they've been told they're getting a little bit more. And that happened where at the beginning of the salary cap era, where players were actually getting about 102 or 103% of their paychecks, but it hasn't happened in almost 20 years. But that's in 23, 24, they're getting a little bit more. I think it's 3% of their salaries. 2425, they're going to get all their escrow money back,

and there's potentially going to be a top-up payment, but it hasn't, the 24-25 overall audit hasn't been completed yet. So this is why accountants are very wealthy, because it takes them three years to do everything. But basically all the accounting for the past three seasons is now getting done and the players will at least be made whole 100% and in some cases

they're getting more. So this year, and it's still early, knock on wood, you hope that things continue to look strong, but that's why there's talk about the number going up because the question is going to be, would you rather the cap go up or would you want to give the players extra money in the future?

So that's why this conversation is out there. And we'll see what Betman says to the Board of Governors this week. Wow. And we consider, you know, obviously those that are in the upper echelon in terms of salaries across the league, getting the full refund, not having anything docked this year, top ups from years previous, like, that's not an insignificant amount of cash now coming, back towards guys that are already paid handsomely to begin with. Yes.

Um, and, uh, you know, it's just, it just shows that overall, like, there's always challenges and I'm the kind of guy. I, I am optimistic, Kyle, but I'm also paranoid. I'm one of those people who's like, I believe the best will happen, but you always prepare for, it's like hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Um, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, Things are expensive out there for people, and I always think about that. So you just want to make sure that there's nothing that you don't see that could lead to concerns or a downturn, right?

So right now it's very healthy and people, you should never count your chickens before they've hatched. But there's definitely whispers about it, the cap potentially going up. All right. So that's a big one here to continue to monitor. as we saw where things went last year when you first started hearing whispers about the number jumping and could be further here yet to come as soon as next season. All right, let's go to the games on Saturday. So first off, during the pregame show, how far did you run when Kevin and Chris Pronger

were doing their demos of working guys in the net front? How far away from the studio did you run when they had the sticks in their hands? Man's getting ready for that. Actually, I was incredibly disappointed. Chris Pronger has gone soft. I said to him, crush him. Just crush him. Give him a Pronger cross check.

And he wouldn't do it. So the reason I wasn't there, Kyle, is that I wasn't staying in that room for no reason. I was only staying there if BXA was going to be left in the corner, curled up in the fetal position, like so many four. words were when Chris Pronger was playing in the NHL from 1993 until 2011. I was very, very disappointed in Mr. Pronger, who, by the way, I thought was excellent on the panel. You know, Pronger was always a great player to deal with. He could be crusty. He had his moments, but nine times out of ten, he was really good and he was really thoughtful. And he is the exact same way to deal with uh he is exactly the same way on the panel as he was to deal with as a player and that's why

you know he's working the amazon game on monday toronto detroit and that's why he's so great at it because he's just he's really smart and he it comes naturally to him in the sense that the way he talked to you either on microphone or away from the microphone is the same way he talks to you on the air Kevin's like that too and you know Kyle that's a really hard skill like a lot of people they get on camera and they don't act like themselves the gift that both those guys have is they don't change who they are and that's advice I would give to anyone you're being put on air because you're you be you it's hard those guys are are you a story told about salt lake was incredible I completely forgot about where he got run from behind by Salani

And so that's why he had the blemish on his face when they were celebrating the gold medal a few days later. The fact that there was a history of all that, that was fantastic. So what were some of the games that had you guys talking the most as Saturday unfolded and all 32 teams were in action? Well, you were in Detroit. And we were talking about Detroit the same way after game one

as we kind of were talking about Buffalo. Todd McClellan laid down the law. and it was interesting to hear Kevin come out and say that those Red Wing guys were told the A's are not on the veterans anymore. It's time for the young players to take over this team. And, you know, they started off pretty well, the Red Wings, then off a faceoff play, they give up a goal, and they looked like they were just going to get totaled. And they hung on, and I thought they were, I thought that was a huge win for them.

and again, it goes back to what we just said about Chicago and San Jose. Now, some of their guys have been around for a little bit longer, Kyle, but still, they're really young. And that, uh, Sandine Palika, you can see the ability there. Like, I thought he was really good on Saturday night. But again, they're so young. And they're really determined almost to get younger in the same. sense that those are the guys who are going to carry the mail, right?

So I don't know. Like I don't know what to expect about this from this Detroit team. Patrick Kane, he still has like those hands haven't left. I was going to say, you want to talk about young? Like he looked like he turned the clock back 10 years on Saturday. That was a treat to watch. Oh, it was, it was incredible. He's going to get 500 this year.

And I know our guys have been working on a story about it. He, you know, obviously. he can't get up and down the ice he used to he's not he's more effective in that half game as opposed to the full ice game but geez he can still fire a puck i just look at them and i say you know they've turned they're really turn it over to a lot of their kids with the exception of kind of larkin and it's i just think it's so hard it is so hard to win with the more your younger players have to carry you now But that was, that was an impressive, that was an impressive win. That could have turned into a disaster for them. Well, you showed, obviously, the clip of McClellan after the, the home opener and how bad that was in the pregame show. And then in game, we ran the next day, the practice, his line was, you know, I pulled three or four guys aside, like guys that have been around and been a Red Wing for a long time and said, like, are you tired of this yet? Are you sick of this?

Like, when's enough enough? Like he kind of almost doubled down the next day after having, you know, the night to sleep on what he saw on the home opener. And I just thought it was just a great reminder that there's no, so many cases, there's no waiting into a season anymore. Like the stress starts night one if you're not showing signs of being headed in the right direction. And that was Detroit. I was disappointed to hear those Centennial jerseys, boy, did they nail them. Oh, they're beautiful. So good.

And I love the brown colored of the gloves to give it kind of the old school look. And on the goaly equipment, too, I don't know if you caught, but even on the equipment, they've used like the old school CCM and Bauer logos, uh, on display. I'm not, I forget the name of the, the company that's like their helmet sponsor, but that's even like their old school logo too. Like everything was, was thought of and, and well thought out. So. however many games they win this year or not,

they're going to look good doing it in those uniforms. So I thought that that Emmett Finney, seventh round pick a couple years ago, his first year in the Western League played 48 games in Camloops as a forward, didn't score a goal. No goal is his first year. And now a couple years later, he's in the National Hockey League. Talk about the young players taken over.

Again, I understand it's early. He had a great training camp. Apparently, he blew the doors off their skating test. Didn't look out of place on a line with Dylan Larkin and Lucas Raymond where you're expected to make some plays. I was thoroughly impressed by watching him up close on on Saturday. And now you see on the Toronto side, the way they were in practice on Sunday, there's Easton Cowan up with. with Austin Matthews and Matthew Nyes and it looks like he's going to make his debut here Monday afternoon on Amazon and a Toronto team, Elliot, that, I mean, boy, they looked a step behind Detroit, particularly in the second period with the long change, like how many of those defensemen got caught out north of two minutes, the Carlo shift where he was surviving didn't have a stick. They just couldn't keep up with once Detroit got skiing downhill. And I wonder if that's part of it. of the thinking, I know Lawrence, unfortunately, is hurt, though I did see him.

He was interacting with some of the arena staff leaving the building, seemed to be in good spirit. So hopefully it's not too, too serious there. He's like the nicest guy in the world. Like, if two of his arms fell off, I still think he'd say hi to everybody. I'm sitting there, like with how he was talking with the arena staff, now I'm going on mind. I'm like, did he play in Detroit for a while?

Like, you just, he looked like it was like he spent years talking to these people every single day at the rink it was it was hilarious it's funny you mention that but uh but knowing that you know now cowen gets the chance but i wonder if that was also part of the thinking too on the coaching staff side uh with having him not only in the lineup but up with the top guys having a little more speed up there too elliott

i just think put him in a position where he can succeed right i don't always like when these guys play and they're on the fourth line he's he's a talented kid give him a shot by the way you Talk about quick starts. If you follow me at all over the years, you know that I keep a stat. It's November 1st. In the salary cap era, full seasons, only 10, there's been 72 teams, four points or more out of the playoffs after games on November 1st. Of those 72, only 10 have made it.

You can't wait until American Thanksgiving anymore. You know, Montreal was a big exception last year. They fell down. They caught it. But if you're four points or more out on November 1st, you've got a one and seven chance of making it, 14%. So it's really hard. You've got to get out quick.

A couple of the things I did want to touch on. I've been talking a lot about Calgary and their backup goalie position. It sounds now like the flames have decided they're going to give Cooley a start on Wednesday. They play Vegas on Tuesday and then they play Wednesday in Utah. I think Cooley gets that start to show that he can keep this job. And so that'll be a big one for him because obviously Vegas is a really tough game. Then you travel.

But, you know, they definitely were talking to a lot of teams. You know, one of the hang-ups was having four goalies on one-way contracts. I think another hang-up was teams were kind of, okay, if you want to give us one of your backup goalies, what are you going to pay us to do it? And I think Calgary was resisting that. So I think they felt that, and it's one of my old sayings, it's better to solve your problem than trade your problem.

I think they're going to try to solve their problem. by having Cooley play that back-to-back game. The other thing I heard out of Calgary, and we'll see what it goes is I think there's some hope that Hubert O' can play towards the end of this week. They, Coronado scored twice against Calgary the other day. What a release. What a great shooter he is.

They had so many chances, and Hofer was great. I mean, St. Louis is one of the best. best goalie tammons in the league, Bennington and Hofer. But you can see, you know, whatever you want to say about Huberto and the contract, whatever, fine. The bottom line is they don't have a lot of guys like him. Scoring just becomes a little bit easier when he's around. You can see how hard it is for them to score when he's not there.

And like I said, they had great chances and Coronado is a hell of a player. but Hubert O, when he's not there, you can see how much they need him. Oh, one of the thing I just wanted to go over, on Friday's pod, I said I didn't understand why Dallas couldn't challenge the puck over glass penalty to Thomas Harley in the game Thursday night in Winnipeg.

I was, imagine this was Friday for a second. I was today years old when I learned that on delay of game puck over glass calls you're only allowed to challenge did the puck go out directly so the the issue in that particular case was was Harley still in the defensive zone or not

it wasn't about where the how the puck went out it was about did he get out of the D zone before he flipped it out you can't challenge that You can only challenge, did the puck go out directly? Now, part of me is like, that's crazy. Either you can challenge it or you can't, but that is the reason.

The officials on the ice were correct to say you can't challenge that. And I didn't know that until the next day. I got a couple texts about it, people saying, this is why. And I said, you know what? You guys got me. I didn't realize that was the case. and the Flyers were mad

about their goal disallowed in Carolina in the overtime on Saturday night I had someone named Flyers are back send me a DM saying Flyers just got hosed so I went to go look at the overtime winner because I didn't see it in real time and I don't like that play

like Anderson is taking advantage Now, I will say this. People reach out to me, say that Anderson's been hurt a lot before, and he might be protecting himself. Fine. I will submit the defense brief on that part, but he does take advantage. Like, he puts his arm into Sanheim, but, but, and this is a big butt, Sanheim does go into the crease on his own. And these calls are already hard enough. basically the rule is now if you go into the crease on your own it's your fault

even if the goal you reach out and touches you which carry price i remember doing in the playoffs years ago even if the goal you reached out and touches you you go into the crease it's your problem and when you're trying to make these calls consistent i get it i don't like it Anderson took advantage but i get it i also just thought he was trying to stabilize himself a bit too the way Sandheim was coming across I just I do

and we we talked about this a few times at length over the course of last season because this topic came up a lot

but I do like the notion of it is a situation that is often so open to interpretation there's a lot of gray

I do appreciate the at least attempt to have some sort of black and white of if you go in on your own accord

you're asking for trouble. Like that can help clear up a lot of confusion in a lot of these instances of goal interference. Like that I do appreciate. I agree with that. Sometimes it doesn't look as egregious as others. Like that one looks like you look at that, just see that play happen live,

and you look at that and you think that's on Anderson. I understand why all the Flyer fans were mad. I do. But the moment I saw the replay and saw where Sanheim went, I said, that's not going to count. That is not going to count because you went in there. I should have mentioned too, Rory Boylan, who's one of the editors at sportsnet.com, he is putting together a goalie challenge page this year on our website. So it'll be a vault and a file of all the goalie challenges of this season and what they're result is.

Oh, that's great. So we'll be able to, yeah, very, this is, I've worked with Rory now for a decade. This is the first time I've ever said this. Rory, great idea. Okay. So you mentioned six first NHL goals on Saturday. Matthew Schaefer, the top pick this past year, was one of them. You saw how he scored it, right?

Right? Yes. I'm diving in, big mad scramble. He was either going to score that goal or he was going to impale somebody in the crease because there were a lot of bodies there. So did you see what he said in the post game where he goes, I think I saw that scene in one of the Mighty Ducks movies and tried to recreate it? Yes.

You know what that actually reminded me of, though? What's that? You ever see the movie MVP, most valuable? primate? No, I did not see that. I have to say. Okay. Dom's throwing the hearts up. You've seen it, right? As a West Coaster, you had to have seen it. Who hasn't seen that movie? And it was apparently Elliot. Was it not? If I'm not. Yes. Dom, let me say this. A lot of things have been filmed in Vancouver, X-Files, Smallville, great show. How many things have been, if you were to do a list of Shows or movies, elf that were filmed in Vancouver, how many would you do until you got to

most valuable primate? A thousand, 10,000. So forgive me, I didn't realize that. Yeah, but Elliot, this is most valuable primate. That's right. Yeah. Not the primate that finished seventh in the voting. It is the most valuable primate. Yes. Yes. Because it was derived off of, you know, the Airbud series, right? So they did the dog and then they did a couple of movies with Jack the Chimpanzee. And so I think those that have seen the movie know where I'm going with this.

So Jack played for the Nelson Golden Nuggets, right? And they're competing for the Harvest Cup. They're playing in the championship game at then General Motors Arena. Okay. And anyway, Jack ends up, he leaves partway through. He gets taken away. final seconds of the game.

It's like peak early 2000s hockey movie. It's the most egregious example of goalie interference. Like everybody, there's the puck sitting on the goal line. The game is tied. You see the clock tick down off the scoreboard. Everyone's tied up with somebody so like nobody can move and get to the puck. And out of nowhere, we think it's Jack the, chimpanzee turns out it's actually the younger sister in the movie terra that's dressed up as

jack she comes just like shafer did diving under a defender's legs and stabs the puck across the goal line and the golden nuggets captured the harvest cup that's how the movie ended it's like if you go and see it elliot it is a carbon copy and do you know who in that in that movie uh provided play play for the Harvest Cup championship? Is it someone we know? Yes. Jim Houston. Bingo.

Yes. Yeah. Huey got a movie credit for that one. Anyways, somehow that came to my mind as I was making my way back from Detroit on Sunday morning, and I was like, I had to find the clip, and I did, it's eerily similar. So maybe he was just thinking Mighty Ducks when reality, Schaefer watched MVP as a kid? Because it was to a T.

I would bet that even the people who starred, wrote, directed, and produced this movie would not have believed that somebody would make this connection. There's going to be a niche pocket of listeners that I hope take great joy in this. Anyways, I just, I wanted to put that out. There was a point where Huey was in everything. There's a great movie with Ewan McGregor called The Ghost Writer, Fent. fantastic movie. Ewan McGregor, Pierce, Prasden, uh, Kim Cottrell, just great movie. And there's a scene where

Ewan McGregor is at a hotel bar and there's a hockey game on the background. I saw it in the theaters. I was like, is that Jim? And yes. Yes, it was. Oh, fantastic. Yeah. Jim, unbelievable run of movies in addition to all his play by play. All a famer. Hall of Famer. Also, watching that Star's Avalanche game on Saturday, Fridge, I mean, for a guy in Miko Ranton in that for the longest time couldn't see himself leaving Colorado, certainly looks rather comfortable playing the villain role now, eh?

Holy smokes. Well, first of all, that was a great game, a fantastic hockey game. Ottinger started this season really well for Dallas. Up and down the ice, exactly what you would expect. And Jared Bednar had some great lines. First of it was asked how long

did you stop thinking about Miko after he was traded and he was like, no offense, 10 minutes. You got to move on if you're a coach. And then after the game he said, oh, I hope I never see him again basically. He was pretty funny. He had some good lines.

But I was talking to some of the Dallas players when I saw them the other day and we were talking about Ranton and you know first of all he was that Nathan McKinnon got married this summer and it wasn't exactly a big group but he was one of the guys who went and we were talking about Randon and they said that you know the whirlwind that he had his head wasn't really he hadn't really come to grips with the fact he was no longer a member of the avalanche until post game game seven when he had that incredible third period to not color out of the playoffs they said that in the dressing room after

that game the separation was complete he was now a star and i said what was said and a couple guys kind of laughed and they said not right now or we'll save it for the book or something like that they they weren't willing to go that far but they they said it was very clear that the true switchover in his mind didn't happen until after that game was open. The one thing one guy did say to me is that they were kidding him that he was underpaid. Because remember, he signed the extension eight times 12 when he went to Dallas and they were like, they were joking eight times 12.

I mean, more than that. And they were all kind of laughing about it. Oh, that's good. That's really good. the two finalists in the Stanley Cup a year ago both look pretty good out of the gate Panthers perfect record in holding the in-season Cup so far their 3-0 and Edmonton after I mean letting the opener slip away

against Calgary what I saw there against Vancouver that seemed rather clinical most of the night yeah Edmonton looks really good I know they blew that game against Calgary agree the other night and that was a big win for the flames a great comeback win for them but i thought they really look good against vancouver they outshot them almost three to one um they they own the game for most of it mac david looked fantastic um they got a lot of players it's it's going to be really interesting how this all works they've got a lot of bodies there rosslovick's going to play this

week um we'll see does he go right on to the first line with macdavid dry sideline do they move to Frederick somewhere else like suddenly they've got a lot of options and they're going to have to figure out how this all happens you know Roslovick has a pretty interesting contract on November 1st

which is about the time Hyman comes back I think it becomes a four team trade list right so it's almost like this is and they sound pretty excited about him I think they want to keep him the guy had 20 goals last year five on five but it's almost like it's a trial to see if everybody's happy here

and I assume that the teams on that list are the teams that we're also looking at them but you know they got a lot of guys to figure out it's going to be interesting to see Edmonton plays every other day for a few days does Pickard keep the net when do they go back to Skinner

that's going to be one of the interesting stories here you know the other thing too is so you could tell tyler meyers who got fined on sunday was trying to goad macdavid and don't forget it was against the canucks that macdavid lost his cool and got that three-game suspension which by the way i believe is something he is still angry about the third game i've always heard it was the third game that really angered mac david and i that's still something that bothers him quite a bit um but he kept his calm he played great i i like the others i like the way they really looked on saturday night but the panthers you know they've lost kachuk they've lost barkov and now they've Loss Kulikov, who quietly is a very good player for them,

who's been an excellent fit on their team. And it just doesn't matter. They look tremendous to start the year. Okay, well, on that, let's get to the final thought then, Elliot. And another note that you had on Saturday night, as the NHL and the NHLPA continue to work through those cities that submitted bids to be a host market for the, upcoming World Cup in

28. You have learned that Toronto, which you assumed would be a layup for something like this, not going to be taken part. So what's the thinking there? Well, I think what basically what it comes down to is that if you want to do this, your

building has to be only hockey, right? And if you think about this in the past, it's been, for example, the last time we had it, it was a, I mean a full tournament, it was in September, right? And the NBA teams don't begin training camp that early. And so you're basically, it's just concerts, you have to move.

Even the Four Nations last week, it was Montreal and Boston. The games were only in Boston for a few days. Like it's not really disrupting the Celtics or anything like that. But if you want to do this one, particularly when the finals are in, going to be in North America there was a lot that you could have to disrupt your other business the Raptors concerts whatever you've got and I think Toronto just decided not to do it and so I'm curious to see does that mean that we're going to have to look at I mean Montreal to me is always perfect it's a great place to have the an event like this one everybody likes to go to Montreal and the

fans there are great, but I still think they're open of the possibility of two North American cities potentially, especially so they can get a couple of U.S. home games if they want to do that. But Toronto and not being involved, it takes a pretty big bid out of the picture. And like you said, usually Toronto is front and center in these things. So it's probably good for Montreal, it's probably good for arenas that don't share tenants, but it's definitely one of the leading contenders every time one of these things is available. It's now off the board. We still too early to kind of get any sense of other cities that are interested that may be gathering a bit of attention. No, I just heard specifically about this one. Okay.

It's not a bad exercise to run through if you're ever curious going, okay, who are the buildings that have hockey but don't have a lot of other tenants or commitments during the winter months? Montreal is the first one that came to my mind. Yeah, Montreal, Vancouver maybe. Yep. You know what I wondered about two, you know, Vegas. Mm-hmm.

Vegas popped up in my mind. Yeah. Tampa. Tampa, Minnesota. They host the games in 2004, I believe, right? Yes, they did. And they don't share the same rink as the Timberwolves. But I think you need to go to Vegas or Tampa because as we learned at the start of this podcast, you need a tan.

Yes, yeah, a quick reset during the month of February, please. That would be nice. So it's always nice to get to the GM meetings. Now they're not going to let you go. Kyle just wants the sign. It's not there to work. No, you know I am. It's just a byproduct.

God. All right. That'll be the final thought. We'll take our first break. Still to come later on, the podcast has mentioned our conversation with Jud Moldaver. But first on the other side of this break, the thought line.

You're listening to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. All right. Welcome back. We have reached the point of the show of the thought line, Ellie. Remember a few weeks ago when we were kind of joking that this podcast is becoming an NFL podcast along with hockey? Yes. Yes. So I'm at the airport Friday in Toronto to catch a flight to go to Detroit for the game Saturday. and I end up meeting Dave Hawkshaw, who is the only Canadian-born official in the National Football League. No way. He was on his way to Jacksonville to work Jaguars Seahawks on Sunday, spent a lot of years working in the CFL prior. I looked into it. He was a police officer even before that, I think in North Vancouver.

Only Canadian down there work on the sidelines. the NFL. Don, when he worked as a police officer in Vancouver, did he ever arrest you possibly? No. Okay, just making sure. He thought about it. Yes, seriously, that was a Lockshaw.

No, don't think he was. I don't remember an officer, Hawkshaw. I remember several other officers, but not this officer, Hawkshaw. That was a longer pause than I expected. Yeah. So there you go. Another thread through football for us.

I just looked up his stats on pro football reference. He used to be a side judge for a long time and now he's a field judge. Dave, I wasn't familiar with your name and that is a good thing because unless you're a referee who's always on camera, the best thing for

your career is that the general public does not recognize your name. So good luck the rest of the season and down the road. Kyle, I have a few people I wanted to shut out and a few notes that I received this week. I wanted to mention. First of all, I wanted to mention a couple of fans. One of their names was Chris B. M.M.A. And the other was a Twitter named Luis Lopes. And they talked about the Portugal stuff. We had the fan from Portugal last pod. So they, first of all, so Chris said, just listen to today's pod. Evan Rodriguez and Gage Gonzalez both have fathers who emigrated for Portugal from Portugal. They would be great ambassadors for outreach in that country. And Luis wrote, I listen to your pod and love it. Thank you, Luis. There's actually some

Portuguese players that are descendants like Tavares, who I forgot and should have remembered Pinto, Rodriguez, or Gonzalez. Tavares speaks fluent Portuguese. I'm an ice hockey lover back in 1994 because I had a classmate coming from Toronto. A few years later, I emigrate. I emigrated. into Switzerland and had the opportunity to interview John Tavares back in 2013, very kind person. And yes, he is. So I wanted to tie those in. And Kyle, I wanted to read another note from a reader or a listener called Jenna, who scolded you instantaneously making me a fan of her note. Sportsnet, Kyle, mentions the Prince George Colonna game, but misses, misses, an opportunity

to bring it full circle to the sharks. Oh, yeah. Assisting on the game-winning goal is newly minted Rockets captain and San Jose Prospect Carson Wedch, his third of the night. In net for Prince George is San Jose Prospect Joshua Ravensberkin. Shame on you, Kyle, for not. being able to remember those players in that moment, just like Jenna did. That's why there's plenty better people suited for this gig than I am, and somehow you got

stuck with me. I'll also say I did see a great picture of you with a Red Wings fan named Connor Burke, who credits you for keeping this podcast afloat, no thanks to me. So even though Jenna recognizes your lack of intelligence, Connor is a big fan. And I also wanted to shout out audiophile style who found a photo of that hockey card I was referring to the King's team photo in their gold uniforms from the 1979-80 season.

He tweeted it at me saying this one and yes, that's the one. Yeah, Connor, Wings fan from Sarnia, big fan of the pod. He wanted to pass along. He's like, where's Fridge? He's looking for you, too. So this is like, this is the thought line. Did you say I could never do this if I had to spend time with him away from the pod, too? Can we talk about the phone call I got from you Saturday afternoon?

Oh, yeah. It was ridiculous. That was great. I'm at the arena. I'm at Little Caesar's Arena getting ready for the game. You call you say, hey, I'm a little. about to do a hit into the flames in a mission. So I see Pickard starting for Edmonton, any other lineup changes.

And I go, uh, I don't know. And you go, okay in a tone that's like, what the heck do you mean you don't know? Mocking. Yes. Mocking. Yes. And I was like, well, I'm in Detroit right now. And then it all, it linked up with you again.

I completely forgot. I thought, because you were in Edmonton on Wednesday. I thought you were still there. And I hung up the phone and I felt shame. Just so you know, I felt shame. You couldn't get rid of me fast enough after that. Once you realized I was of no use to you, you were like, K-byte. This has become the thought line feet, the friege line.

There's two lines now that we're getting through, which is great. There's the thought line and then there's the post-original thought line. It's the follow-up line. Follow-up line. Okay. From the OG thought line. this week, we've got Seth who says, hey, guys, love the pod.

I think I crack the code of how we could see teams crack the new 75-day double retention rule. Typically, we see a seller trading a player to a buyer for a future. The problem now is, whichever team originally acquires the player, 75 days prior to the deadline, is likely the team that would rather have the player with his salary double retain. Here's the answer.

Two teams that are near the bottom of the standings before the Olympics should trade equally valuable UFAs to be for one another, both 50% retained. Sellers trading with sellers to prepare for their big day in March. This would allow both teams to trade their new players 75 days later at the trade deadline to a contender at 25% of the original cap hit. Everyone wins. I love the idea. It's a great idea. I just automatically thought about teams trading guys to other teams. I didn't even think about the genius of teams trading these players with each other.

I hope it happens because you deserve a pat on the back for the idea. Very good. So we're trying to figure out, okay, what are the new loopholes going to be in this new world? That's a good one. I love it. Well done, Seth. Okay, Dakota from Cincinnati. Hello, Dom, Kyle, and Elliot.

My name is Dakota, and I'm a proud Blue Jacket fan in the beautiful Queen Cities, Cincinnati, Ohio, where chili flows, pigs fly, and Grater's ice cream is supreme. Oh. Just wanted to familiarize you with the culture in case Gary gives Cincinnati a team one day. Okay. Well, even if, you know, we're in Columbus, it's not that far. Yeah, you're right. We can, we'll make the trip for good ice cream. We will, definitely.

We would do just about anything for good ice cream. So Dakota writes, Jeff Svoboda, who covers the jackets for the team website, recently posted that Columbus's roster consists of six of their own first round picks, 10 of their own drafted players, which is tied for fourth in the league. That number becomes 12, if you include Jake Christensen and Jet Greaves, as two undrafted free agent players that have been developed by the jackets their entire professional career. So my question is this. One team in the modern era has won the cup with the most homegrown, drafted or undrafted,

but only played for this particular NHL club players and which has won with the least. My guess is that Vegas won with the least in 2023, but outside of an expansion team winning it all, I am curious if there is a correlation with teams drafting and developing their own players and Stanley Cup success. All right. So I went to the SportsNet Stats team. I asked for the most, the most homegrown talent. Do you want to zone in on that? Would that have been, and I'm only thinking of it because of the big stars on their team or their guys,

Chicago No Okay I mean I would have to think Vegas would be the answer for the other one Yes I just went to sports net stats

About what the most Okay The most Would it be The Kings No Okay What year is it

That's stupid That tells me right who it is. Tell me approximately when it was. You want the decade? Yeah. 80s. Oh my God.

I was looking recently. Well, if it's 80s, a lot of those oilers guys came from the WHA. Like, Gretzky came from another team. Messier came from another team. So I'll go with the 86 Canadians. Bada bing. Bada boy. Nice.

Get this. Ninete this. 19 you know I think it would be interesting to see in the cap era who had the most hmm I geez 19 so 19 drafted

and then Bobby Smith they traded for Brian Scroodlin and Mike Laller yeah both undrafted free agents that began their careers NHL careers in Montreal so effectively 21

homegrown players that were part of... Because I was thinking of that team of the obvious players that you remember off the top of your head, the one who wasn't from there was Bobby Smith. They traded for him from Minnesota. But other than that, and that's why I guessed them,

just quickly thinking through my head, you're going through all the key guys on that team, Patrick Waugh, Claude Lemieux, Matt's Nassland, and, you know, Larry Robinson, you're thinking of all these guys, and they're Geek Harbino and they're all Canadians guys. So that would be my guess.

You know, like I said, the Oilers, Gretzky was on a different team from the WHA. Messier was on a different team from the WHA. And, you know, I thought about the flames. They would have been up there, but they had Doug Gilmore who was traded. So that was my answer. And I was lucky, I guess, the right one. Well done. well done getting uh i'd be curious to know in the modern era like the more the cap era

who that team would be because you think about it and you know Pittsburgh they obviously had crosbie flurry letang malkin but there were guys they traded for coonets or things like that uh i would be curious to know who would be chicago obviously, Kane, Taves, Keith, Seabrook, those guys were drafted, but they had Hosa, who they brought in, and the Kings, Kopitar, Doughty, but they had a lot of guys they brought in. They brought in Gaborik. They brought in Richards. They brought in Carter. So I would think it probably wouldn't be them, actually. Yeah, well, because, yeah, Dakota asked modern era. I just didn't know, like, as you consider the cap era, the modern era, like 67 onwards. Is that the modern era? Anyway, That's still pretty impressive for Montreal 86, 21 in total. That was worth a mention. Very good question.

Okay, speaking to Montreal, Jeff and Montreal with the next question. Hey, Dom and Co. My question is about games played totals for players. Why are playoff games not included when teams celebrate milestones like 500 games, a thousand games, et cetera. They are NHL games and they should count. This has stung in recent years for Montreal fans like me. Andre Markov's career ended at 990 NHL games.

But if you include playoffs, he would be at 1,079. When Brendan Gallagher's current contract ends, if he is able to stay healthy the whole way, he could end up at 998, nightmare fuel. With playoffs included, he would safely get there next season. Just putting it out there, hope it changes someday. This person's name is Jeff, but he might be Andrew Ferrence, because Ferrence feels very strongly about the exact same thing. And if you look at Andrew Ference's career, he's a guy who played, I think, 900 games, 907.

But if you add in his players games, he's at one, the playoffs. games. He's at 1,027. So Ferrence was a guy who would look at the same thing. The only reason it's there, Jeff, is because, and it's not the fault of the players who get there, it's just not an even playing field. Not everybody who makes the playoffs as often. It's not entirely that player's fault. So they just say, look, there's regular season records and there's playoff records because the playoff records are not as equal as regular season records are. Guys don't get the same kind of shot at them. So that's the reason that they don't count in the overall record keeping of the National

Hockey League. But guys who did play a lot of playoff games and would get them over a thousand, they would completely agree with you. Like one name I always remember is one of the best dressed people in the National Hockey League, Martin LaPointe, who works for the Montreal Canadiens, his career ended at 991, and he played 108 playoff games, really good player, really good, two-time Stanley Cup champion, and again, somebody who you look at him, and now at the drafts whenever he's there, and you say, there is nobody in this room dressed better than Martin LaPointe is.

Medana was a famous one, of course. That was 1499. He was got past 1,000, but on the doorstep of 1,500. But yeah, that's why. All right, one final one here. It's voicemail. Kurt from Penticton. Hey, guys.

It's Kurt from Penticton, D.C. Happy to be featured on the podcast. Hi, Mom. She doesn't listen to you, dummies. Is Connor McDavid signing that really nice contract the other day? it's looking like he'll be kicked out of the top five highest paid players bracket in the NHL and it got me thinking what's the longest amount of time a player is spent like being the highest paid player or among the top five has someone gone their entire career or at least

past the entry level years thanks guys so again for this this one I did do within the salary recap era of course for the longest time in the NHL salaries were not disclosed so that would have been quite the scavenger hunt so I kept it in the cap era like who's had the longest tenure of top AAV in the NHL

would Shea Weber be in that conversation he's not at the top had to have been top five for a while for sure yeah I remember a guy for a long time who was near the top, but I don't know how long it would be because I can't remember how long his contract was

would have been Vincent La Calleye. But the name that jumps into my head has got to be Ovechkin. That's it. Yeah. That's the one. Yeah, it has to be Ovetchen, 15. That's it, eh?

Only six years inclusive. That's it, eh? Hmm. So 15, 16, that was. was the first season of the Patrick Kane, Jonathan Taves. Yeah. Deals in Chicago, 10 and a half. So that would have ended that right there.

Not surprised, though, Vatchkin is the answer, though. Fix. It fits. That was a 13-year deal he signed at the time back when you could do those sorts of things. Yep. All right. Very good. Kurt, thank you for the question.

Thank you everybody for submitting. Man, each and every week, it's tough to, I know, Griffin has a tough time. making a short list because there's a lot of great submissions and then to take from there and what we've got time for in the show, Elliot, it's a grind each time. So appreciate the creativity and the thoughtfulness from the listeners there. It's great. 1833, 311, 321, 32, 32 to leave a voicemail, or you can email us at 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca.

We'll take another break and come back our conversation with Judd Moldaver, the agent of Connor McDavid, on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Okay, welcome back. As promised, our conversation with Jud Moldaver, fresh off a summer of going through, as he described as a process, Connor McDavid, his client, and ultimately getting the two-year extension done with McDavid and the Edmonton Oilers this past week. Judd was kind enough to share his time with us to discuss some of the inner workings behind the deal, the mindset of Connor, and how it all really came to be in what is really an unprecedented type deal for the game's best player. So let's get to it. Jud Moldaver of Wasserman Hockey back on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. All right, please to be joined by an executive B.P. with Wasserman, Judd Moldaver. Agent represents the likes of

Austin Matthews, Roman Yossi, Zach Werenski, and of course, Connor McDavid. Judd, first of all, welcome back to 32 thoughts. Happy Thanksgiving. How are you doing? What have you been up to this weekend? Hey, Kyle, happy Thanksgiving to you, your family. Elite Friedman, happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. I appreciate you guys having me on. celebrating Canadian Thanksgiving. I'm excited to watch the Blue Jay game tonight. It's my father, Ron,'s 80th birthday. So while I'm not with him, a great day for him

and just enjoying this Thanksgiving Sunday. Happy birthday, Ron. Hope it's a great one for you and yours. Okay, Judd, everybody is talking about it. It was the biggest story in hockey last week. A lot of big extensions handed out recently. recently, but the biggest, Connor McDavid, two years, $25 million, $12.5 per, a number that shocked everyone when it got out. How did we get there? And how was the decision made to get to that

number? Take as long as you want. Take us through the process. Because I know I expected him to take less. I think I'm like most people did not see that coming. Yeah, well, obviously, extremely happy for Connor and his family, his wife Lauren, his parents, Brian and Kelly. You know, I was living it fortuitously for me alongside him through this process and without overusing that word. I think the Conner's credit, his process was excellent, you know, since sort of the beginning of the summer, we were going through things really methodically. And I thought it was important that Connor was able to take his time with things. And while his intention, as he said publicly, privately has always been

one thing, and that's to win the Stanley Cup as an Emmett's an Euler. He loves the fan base, the organization, his teammates. You know, I felt a lot of times. especially early on and then even during, it was something that the de facto conclusion shouldn't be made. While his desire and his intention was one thing, I think the timeline that which he should be able to go through his, again, process should be his and his alone. Minus certain dates, of course, the beginning of the season

and or other dates that are relevant, a lot of things are artificial. Again, I think him and I had a great kind of plan And the plan was simply to allow him to take his time, be wisely patient, and think through things. And ultimately, if your process is correct or thorough, you usually get a great end result. And for us, there wasn't a date or a time period. We had circle with a red pen. It was simply a matter of, you know, collecting as much data as we can, allowing him to have as much reflection as he could. And then ultimately, you know, when he woke up one morning, whenever that morning was going to be or went to bed a certain night and felt a certain way that it was time, he was going to give me the green light.

And as everybody knows, that ultimately happened, you know, I guess it's about six days ago. And I'm really proud of him. He's obviously, I think we all know a special talent to say the least, but he's a special person, extremely intelligent, extremely thoughtful, a fantastic teammate. and a humble guy who wanted to do his best to find a deal construct that ultimately put himself and his teammates in the best position to win. And I think we achieved that. So there's a lot of places to go from here. Let's do this.

Where did the number 12.5 come from? Because it sounds like there were two decisions to make here. number one was stay or not and as we heard from you there it was very likely that he was going to stay but the second decision was the contract and you know there was no negotiation here and even the oilers admitted whatever connor macdavid was going to ask for they were going to do and as stan bowman talked about on Saturday Net on After Hours with Scott Oak and Louis de Brusk, they didn't know until that phone call last Monday morning. So how did the number 12.5 come to be Connors and yours decision?

Well, look, yes, you know, with great respect to Stan and Jeff, like they've said, and you just reiterated, and, you know, It wasn't a negotiation. It was a process. And they respected Conner's process and how he was going to think about what was going to make him feel comfortable and when and what. And all my discussions with them made it clear that when we were ready to engage on a deal construct, would let them know. And to their credit, they had no pushback on that.

We had many thoughtful conversations about, you know, the go forward and. the vision for the team. And so that was just, you know, caveating that and reiterating what that dialogue looked like. You know, in terms of the construct itself, the deal itself at two times 12 and a half, you know, look, every team is in its own situation, right? Outside the scope of the hockey business,

companies that do the same thing, have different hierarchical structures, they're in different life cycles of their business. They may have people with similar titles of a different function. It's really different, and I think I've said before, you know, there's 32 teams, the NHL, we all know that. What I'm alluding to in terms of what I've said before is that I think there's really only two things the 32 teams have in common, and that's to win the Stanley Cup and be governed by the same CBA.

Short of those two things, every other team is, you know, like I'm suggesting companies outside the scope of our hockey ecosystem, every team is in a different cap situation, a different life cycle and where they're at as a team. different team construct different setups of how players are signed positional needs and so on top of just you know exploring everything from a conceptual standpoint was trying to find the right math and the right term that you know most optimally acquiesced Connor's ability to win as an oiler while you know maintaining to protect his individual value and and ultimately you know in looking at Edmonton's team construct and where they're at and where they'd like to be, as Connor said,

trying to win year in and you're out and have a chance, a real chance to do that. It just, he felt comfortable. And it was the right deal for Connor. And ultimately, it's as simple as that. One more for Kyle before I handed over to you, was any part of you saying to him, that's too low?

No. No. I mean, look, there might have been certain permutations that I might have, raised my hand and said, hey, 97, maybe not that much, perhaps, but, you know, ultimately as a representative, you're always striving to protect your client's interests. You obviously want to, you know, push for guys to make as much money as they can. There's no secret or trying to be, you know, coy about that.

I think in this particular case, you know, as Connor referenced, like, he's still paid very handsomely, you know, $25 million is still a lot of money. there's not many two-year permutations that have this high a pay rate as we've seen in our sport a lot of the time the more years you give the higher cap hit you receive i still think the deal is very transcendent notwithstanding people expecting you know a bigger number um so no at the end of at the end of this it was always about what was going to make him feel like he's made the best decision for connor mac david and i think we did that and look it's no secret. Now our sport's the best sport in the world. It's a hard trophy to win. And the reality for players in the National Hockey League is that often, you know, they have to balance out their economic situation with their ability to win. And, you know, other sports don't have that. Ultimately, in other sports, just by way of example, you know, deals are signed and people aren't talking about, you know, a player's desire to win or not.

They just talk about the deal and they move on. In our sport, at least from my experience, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to be that it's a constant dialogue. Well, you know, he wants to win. I find that laughable with all due respect. I don't think that I have a client, and I know all my clients will support this, nor would I want to have a client that doesn't want to win.

I can't speak for people I don't represent, but I'd be willing to lose a bet to say there are players to enter the National Hockey League who grew up, you know, giving everything they can to be in that situation to try and compete and win the Stanley Cup and say that winning is secondary. So I think, you know, I don't know that there's degrees of winning. I think winning is winning, wanting to win. I think is in everybody's DNA. Connor, obviously, in many ways, has been the epitome of that, you know, burning desire.

I think, as you've referenced, Elliot, excuse. me and yet i think every single guy represents wants wants to win and um i'd be disappointed if they said the opposite hmm all right so as we know judd it wasn't until that phone call monday morning that the oilers found out what the number was going to be where along the process did you first have that conversation with connor about keeping it at the 12.5 he's been on for the previous six years I think as Elliot alluded to, you know, it kept coming down to certain decisions.

Ultimately, for a while we were just exploring the notion of him waiting to sign. And to be clear, you know, he's always wanted to be an oiler. So in the event in some stranger things universe that he would not have signed before the season, that wouldn't have indicated that he wasn't going to sign in Edmonton. So the first sort of binary decision, Kyle, became, you know, when does it make sense to sign? And then, you know, following that, we kind of had, you know, so my notion of if he gave me the green light to, you know, execute a deal that we'd know what that construct would look like. And ultimately trying to, you know, have a cap hit and a deal construct that, again, reiterating and repeating myself that put him and the Oilers in the best possible position. became pretty simple.

And I know I've heard, you know, elite here and many people say they're surprised, they're shocked, they're stunned. I guess I'm shocked and surprised and stunned those that know Connor, even from a distance, but follow the sport or involved in the sport, have an idea of what he's about. I found it more surprising than anything

that people were so surprised. So I think, Kyle, for us, we just took a really, you know, deep look at the squad, no one more than me or I would should say I'd like to think equal to or greater than is championing the notion that the cap will go up that the cap will go up higher than the penciled in numbers for you know what will be 26 27 and 27 28 and yet you know it's still the fact remains the more pie you take the less pie there is for others regardless of how high the cap goes up and yet every team and every player is in his own situation and has to you know that deal construct has to be curated to that player and in this case it was relatively elementary for us what was the best all around fit and this is just what he felt

comfortable with and it was pretty much that that simple did the oilers ever come to you and say why is this taking so long? No to Conner's credit as you guys all saw both publicly well you guys saw publicly

not quite privately I don't trust you that much elite You know. Can't say I really blame you. No, no, no. Look, I think it's been acknowledged from what I've read and or heard. The appreciation of Conner's transparency and straightforwardness throughout. You know, his media availability started at, you know, his press conference following the season's end. There's a bit of a dip in the summer in media availability.

And then, you know, his media availability resurfaced at the, you know, hockey can't. the Orientation Olympic camp, which were where he spoke, as we all know, and followed suit with a few different interviews and media hits. And look, we were clear. I was clear on Conner's behalf to Stan and Jeff from the get-go that, look, we were going to be on no timeline but our own. You know, trust is earned, not given. Fortuitously, there was trust and there should be and Connor and by default me that we were communicating everything that was going through his and my brain. There was no games and, you know, they trusted that.

They respected and trusted that we were going through a process and we were going to let them know when we came to our healthy conclusion. And look, of course, they, I think they'd admit they would have loved to do the deal as quickly as possible. I don't think any team or wouldn't want their, their, top player and where Congress sits in our game to not be signed for as long as possible. And yet they were understanding and, you know, I guess I made it clear we needed that understanding and there was no pushback on that.

We had, you know, consistent dialogue, check-ins. But I got to say, we kind of made it clear and they acquiesced and respected that timeline. So I really wonder, Jedda, as you've alluded to, like there's very, few people that really do know Connor on a more, I guess, intimate basis, you being one of them. What was he like to work with in this case on a situation and a decision this significant? Yeah, well, look, I feel extremely lucky to represent Connor and represent all the other players and families that I work with. I'm only as good at my job as, you know, the players and their families allow me to be, which is based in their trust and belief in me.

And it's extremely humbling and I feel extremely fortunate. In Conner's case, it's a special relationship that we fostered. Like I said, I do with all my clients, but in Conner's case, I've known him for a long time now. I've been his agent only for a handful of years while knowing him and having a good relationship beforehand. So I know I'm fortuitous to be in a unique position to know him so well. And so nothing surprised me, everything from the end result to the deal. He chose to the process we went through, thorough, thoughtful, detailed.

I can't say enough about my appreciation for him to let me steward it and guide it. And look, we had a lot of fun. He probably heard my voice more than he wanted to. but he can join the club on that. But we had a lot of great, great discussions of different length, some handful of great face-to-face interactions, a couple great sessions with him and his wife,

a couple great sessions with his dad and I, and it was really a great collaborative process and a thorough one. And so, again, I kept saying, we keep going at it like this. You know, you'll just wake up. And I've said this to other clients who heard this speech before that, you know, just have a moment. If we just, if our methodology and our strategy is right, the end result will be right.

And sometimes you don't exactly know when it's going to crystallize. But as Connor, I think, alluded to on your, on y'all's show, it was going to be a feeling. It wasn't going to be about some particular transaction. It was just taking all the information, being able to ruminate. and breathe, process, and he would just get that feeling. And that's exactly what happened. Was there ever a point where you thought he would say, you know what, I'm going to unrestricted free agency,

or I'm going through the season to see how this goes? For sure, for sure. Like, all bets were off. You know, those that forecasted, at least going to sign, for sure, or those that said he wasn't. Often people talk in opinion under the guise of fact. And what's factual is he did not make a decision until essentially 24 hours or less than when he green-lit me to execute that decision.

So everything was on the table, as he said. He could have entered the season not signing. And again, remained an oiler. That was always the goal. It was just figuring out when that feeling of signing made sense. Fortunely, again, it was something that we knew we had control over what the deal would look like. I don't say that to be disrespectful or brutish. That was sort of the easy part.

And that's why math and term didn't come up until what was a relatively brief phone call for me on Monday morning. But yeah, certainly. I mean, I was going into it 50-50. I know my job is to create optionality and not all players have the same optionality at certain points in their career but in this case he was a player that had such and so I could have woke up Monday morning

he could have given me another answer his heart is in Edmonton it always has been there was no gray in that but figuring out the when and the what we wanted to be really really patient and thoughtful. And so, no, I was ready for any and every possible decision he could make.

And ultimately, he made it, you know, last Monday. But everything was on the table. You know, Jed, the other thing I was curious about what the contract was, what other permutations did you consider? Like, were there other numbers that you guys had written down and said, do you want to do this? The biggest deal he could have signed is eight times, 19.1 or 19.1, and 19.1. And, you know, you could have signed that. Like, did he think

at all about signing that? Like, what other deals were on the table that you guys said, let's do this? That's what I'm curious about because people say he gave up 20 million a year. Well, if he was going to sign Edmonton at this time, he didn't. You know, it was just a little bit less than that, but like I am curious to know did you consider going for the max? Was that at all a conversation?

No. Like I said, you know, we were looking at the paradigm of the Edmonton Oilers and obviously excited that the NHL and NHLPA has us all in a situation where the cap is cascading upwards

in a major way and players will benefit short and medium and hopefully long-term from that. So looking at things from a macro-level lens, I'm very excited about that. But my job in each client's case is the micro, and the micro of the Edmonton Oilers was a paradigm that Connor had to be considerate as to what cap hit he took.

Of course, trying to blend his individual value, as aforementioned. But really, the answer is no. We knew there was a range that made sense, a range that, excuse me, Connor was going to feel comfortable taking so that the team would have more room to spend money, you know, in the immediate future, in the not too distant future. And so not really. And we, along with, you know, all of our thoughtfulness,

a lot of it was spent on when he was going to sign and we knew the what would come pretty quickly, taking a long-term deal at that kind of number was never discussed. Again, with all due respect to the Oilers who run a great organization, their team just wasn't set up for us to ever really contemplate that. Connor wasn't wired that way. We were wired in a way to take less than I think anyone was anticipating. So for me, there was no sticker shock or stunned reaction.

Of course, I'm on the inside of it. At the same time, no, it was pretty simple. two years makes sense and kind of always just really did make sense it didn't take us a whole lot of banter to reconcile that all right let me try this way what is the biggest number Connor could have signed for this time uh I don't know if I'll get in all that Elliot nice try um you can't shoot a guy for trying absolutely yeah I think he signed the right deal that made sense for him and it's, that's about it. Fair enough. Kyle?

Well, so understanding, as you say, this was not a negotiation, the phone call comes in Monday morning and the deal is done shortly thereafter. But if a negotiation is such a big part of the role of an agent, Judd, if that really wasn't part of it here, then what was in your role,

the most challenging, the most time-consuming part of this whole process for you. I think what Kyle's asking here, Judd, is do you really feel you deserve your agent fee for this? Yeah, you know what? I know what's more than that. I'm starting to quickly regret coming on this stupid show. Buttered you up with the Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you. Thank you. No, that's an easy one. uh yes you know brokering negotiating um transacting a player's contract of course is the bread and butter of how they make money uh there's no disputing that there's just a fact um and yet you know i think myself our group at washington hockey take a lot of pride and and caring for our players you know during that process and after it just the same way um of course it's a flashpoint when you're negotiating a deal.

In this case, as we've said it, nauseam and with respect, this wasn't a classic negotiation. It was a evaluation. And that evaluation, I think, is where I wanted to, you know, have the most value to Connor to try and help him ensure he was contemplating all the things that he should be contemplating. Of course, you know, he doesn't need much help for me in that regard. he's a very thoughtful guy

and very aware of a situation but I just wanted to be the best sounding board I could be the best guide and kind of consulari if you will on you know validating his right to take his time and feel comfortable doing as such and not feeling boxed in

to other people's artificial timelines and other people's you know opinions and just stay true to himself which he always does and so I hope I had hoped at the beginning of the process you know, during it and at his conclusion that my role would be that, the value out I was hoping to have would be to guide him as best as I could and help him think through things

and try and, you know, tune out the noise as much as I could. And that to me was, I hope, the value I provided. But no thanks to you guys for pointing anything out here, but appreciate it nonetheless. So, Judd, the other thing I'm curious about here is sometimes it's not only about, and in this case, this definitely appears to be the situation, it's not only about the contract, it's about direction of the team. And I'm curious when you and Connor were going through this process, how much talk is there with the others about what they're thinking? Okay, this is our path next year. This is our path the year after. This is what we're thinking.

This is about who we're going to get. Like last week, we saw them just signed Jack Roslovick during the opening night of their season. How much of their conversation is that? And the other thing I'm curious about is Matt Sandine, who was the governor of the Maple, who was always famous for saying, I don't talk to the manager about the roster. Like, I don't do that. Do you and Connor talk to, how much do you talk to the Oilers about the roster? or who's coming or who they're looking at.

You know, everybody's different. So I'm curious to see how much of a factor or how much does that happen in your conversations. Yeah, no fair. Look, Connor, you know, is a player. He's a really good one. He's not looking to be anything but a player. That said, when a player of his magnitude

is coming to a contractual decision, I think the vision for the team, the strategy for the team, it's paramount in that evaluation. And I think players like that have a right to have some sort of knowledge. In fairness to this team or any other team, you know, no one is Nostradamus and a futurist

or certain things that, you know, can't be predicted. I think it's a blend between what a team has in the system at present, what the roster looks like, the type of players are under contract, to evaluating positional needs and, you know, also taking some degree of a leap of face that wherever deficiencies may or may not be, that those get corrected. And so for certain, our conversations were just in understanding, you know, Stan and Jeff's continued vision for the team, knowing there's certain answers are impossible to gain

and some answers that were possible to gain, none of which I'm going to share with you too. I understand, yeah. But obviously, we got enough. and through me as a proxy of the information. And obviously there was some direct discussion with Connor. But Connor wants to play hockey and win. That's his job. That's his focus.

I must say, you know, there's been a lot of, I think, suggested I've heard in the past that things have been done at Connor's behest or his request. And again, with respect, it's just not true. There's a lot of things that happen sometimes and teams make decisions organizationally. And there's a bit of a mythology that players are demanding or in the know of things beforehand, in fact, it rarely almost never happens.

I think we just wanted to understand the general vision. Connor's got too many things to worry about and preparing for the next practice and the next game than to be a player manager or coach. You know, he's not Paul Newman. You know, he just wants to play hockey and do his thing. And at the same time, of course, we had questions. Like I would in any signing I'm part of when you have certain. kind of players. I mean, some of my clients, you know, maybe don't have that same leverage, right?

And to be the first to understand that, unfortunately, I have a few players that have, you know, created that leverage for themselves to have some knowledge, but they're not overly intervening. They're not making decisions on roster pickups or deletions, on coaching hires, on managerial hires. That's all a load of BS. So what do you think is the biggest misconception about Connor publicly at this stage of his career? That's a good question. I don't know that I can think of one. It is a good question.

And I'm just pausing because I really don't know. I mean, of course, look, we live in a day and age where we all have cell phones and the Internet and information flows. So to come here on your show and tell you guys that I don't pay. pay attention, and I don't hear what's out there. I mean, that would also just be a load of BS, so I'm certainly not claiming that. I don't overly pay attention. I certainly stay away from, you know, nonsense that is irrelevant to focus on working on my clients' behalf to get caught up on what other people are saying and pontificating for clicks

and ratings and such, including you two, particular Elliot. but a lot of nonsense, geez. I don't know. I don't know what the misconceptions are. I can tell you, you know, what you see is what you get. I think if anything, this process and his speaking the way he did, not hiding, coming right out there, being right in front of all you guys, being asked tough questions, and still preparing himself for the season.

I think it's less of a misconception I can identify. I think it's more of, you know, the actual Connor McDavid, which is a man of integrity, a fantastic person and one whose actions followed his words. And very proud of that. So I just want to jump in on that, Judge, because you make a very good point. Like I will say, I mean, I respected the guy before all of this and certainly through it. No one would have begrudged him if he said, look, no everyone has questions about my contract. I don't want to talk about it until there is something done.

done. Then I'll let you know. He took every question he got from the end of last season, the times you say popped up during the summer and in through training camp before Penn was put to paper. Did you guys ever talk about that of going, okay, do you really want to face these questions all the time? Would you like to shut it down? Did you discuss any of that with him at all? Yeah, we were going segment at a time, right? Like, you know, you can't, we can't play a six team at the hockey game and a warm-up, I guess, in a manner of speaking. And so we identified together. There'd be different sequences throughout the process.

Maybe we wouldn't have gone to some sequences had he had this crystallization of choice on July 1st, on July 10th, on August 1st, on whenever it would have been. So, yeah, we, of course, touched on depending on where he reconciled his final decision, how we would handle certain things. Sure. I guess, well, it's a fair question. I get where you're going with it. I mean, at some point it's not real anymore, so probably won't comment much further on it. But yeah, we had all sorts of thoughts. I mean, I play a lot of chess and think about things all the way through. And sometimes you play your first 10 moves and maybe in your head, that is.

And maybe by move 7, move 8, 9, and 10 are different or no longer necessary. So I think we were ready for anything and everything. My North Star was to guide him to the best decision to remain them into noiler. And the when and the what would, like I've said now, unfortunately, I'm annoyingly redundant, but I'm good at that. Came organically because everything else, you know, our chest moves were what we mapped them out to be. And so in that alternate universe, should things have continued on, we would have been ready to handle things in a way that would have been optimal for Connor.

As this process is going on, there's other deals that are trying to get done. And people want to know, what's Connor thinking? What's he going to sign for? What's his timeline? So, Judd, you deal with a lot of people around the hockey world. Do you get other agents who are asking you for clarification? Do you get other GMs asking you what Connor is thinking? Does that happen?

Not really. I mean, I think it was curious for everybody. I respect, obviously, for, you know, all agents to do what we do. I know my colleagues at Wasserman the best, and I know we've got a great group of people, a lot of experience, a lot of senior agents, a lot of great young agents, and executives that they make our group such a tight-knit family and, you know, achieve the best results for our clients. Some of my other colleagues had some great deal flow as well in,

in last week, which I know we're all very proud of. You know, in kind, I obviously have respect for the 32 managers, the presidents, the management staff,

the AGMs, and, you know, all the work that goes into putting their teams together. It doesn't mean we always agree with each other. Tempers can rise. Emotions can get the best of all of us when we all are fighting for our constituents.

But we were in our own world on this one. and, you know, I think that's how you have to be. Again, you know, every player is in his own situation, every team's in their own situation. I don't foresee this deal being something that any team or agent can use good or bad. Conner's deal is Conner's deal. That's where I was going to go to next. And that is that you've heard, you know the teams are going to say,

hey, Connor McDavid took less. You should take less. what's your reaction when you hear that bogus nonsense again I great or I'd like to think great relationships across the league and have a lot of respect for all 32 clubs

notwithstanding there being disagreements and things of the sort that said that's just bogus and disingenuous players sign at different times we have a hard cap system our deals can not be opened or reopened once negotiated marketplaces are different. RFA and UFA summers are different.

So I think it's a non-starter. I'm not suggesting that teams may not try and point to it, but I think it would be a bogus position. And deep down inside, I think every manager will know it's a bogus decision. But if they attempt to pull on heartstrings, I think it would be unfair, not contradicting the notion that, you know, the less pie, a group of players take,

the more pie for others. And yet, like a budget, someone can have a big budget and not know how to spend it wisely. So having cap space is certainly a good step A, knowing what to do with that cap space is step B. And the two don't always live effectively together. So I think it's a bogus position.

And I think there's a lot of good agents out there, my colleagues and otherwise. And I think if any, team is suggesting, well, you know, point to this player or that player, I think it's ridiculous. I think deals should be done as though it's a Venn diagram, just qualify that, you know, there's marketplace and there's team construct. And I think often finding the white space between the two is the best way to do a deal. Players have different rights, you know, coming at an entry level, you're limited and your leverage

with no arbitration. Obviously, when you have, you know, UFA rights, it's classic supply and demand. And so that's when a player, of course, has the most leverage. with no blockage to where they can sign. But I just think it cannot be overstated that while some players are going to command bigger dollars and have more leverage, every player is just in its own situation. And you can pull a little bit of relativity, you know, from the marketplace, certainly, and look at that individual team, look at that time of signing,

which is key, and, you know, evaluate it, I think, best that way and most fairly. So, Judd, I was thinking back, 2019, right? Austin Matthews, another client of yours, signs a five-year extension at the time with Toronto, follows that up. He's in the middle of a four-year deal here now. Just been discussing Connors, a two-year extension with Edmonton, of course, coming on the heels of signing for eight.

But I just, in the cap era, so often we've seen the superstars go max-term, max-term, max-term, max-term. It felt unique at the time when Austin signed for five coming out of his entry level. I'm just wondering, have you noticed a shift in thinking among players at the top of the food chain in terms of how they want to map out the future of their careers, both contractually and I guess putting themselves in the best spots to win? Well, hard for me to comment on anyone else other than obviously, you know, my clients, knowing all the nuance and details.

I think everyone's in their own shoes or I guess their own skates, as we may have it, in terms of their particular situation. I think with Austin, yeah, like you alluded to, you know, he signed a five-year deal at the time when it was seemingly more invoked to sign an eight-year deal and then proceeded that with a four-year deal. And I think, you know, a lot of the same logic

he and I and his family incorporate on his deals, we incorporated on Conner's deals, where they may not seem the same on the surface by term and such. I mean, the idea is usually that when you give more years, you command more of an A-A-V. I think, you know, back to the original deals, the Leafs had done. We had a global pandemic, unfortunately,

and not really suspended things. And then we were unfortunately dwelling in a flat-cap error, era, excuse me, and made some of those deals seem like they were, you know, eating way more than they made, I would have otherwise. And I think we see that by bringing the years down, you can provide a, you know, a more cat-friendly hit. When you're top players in the world, there's a balance, again, between, you know, commanding certain dollars, but trying to take less,

some that really don't know what they're talking about, don't really understand how it works and have no grasp of it. But I think that these players who take short-term deals, yeah, there's the, you know, betting on yourself and there's some elasticity and some more flexibility. And yet, funny enough, I think, you know, I don't suggest that players who take long-term deals are any less committed to their team, just like players that take, you know, less years or no less committed to their team. I mean, by taking more years, as I said, you get more A-A-V, and I know you guys aren't mathematicians, but that would mean more total dollars and more total compensation. When players take less years and less compensation, they're taking less of the pie kind of from a day-to-day standpoint, and they're taking less total money. So I think that in a system where you want to have as much flexibility as possible,

in Austin's case, we did that. Zach Wrenski is another player represent, also a special player to say the least. And at a time when it was in vogue to sign eight years for those D, he signed a six-year deal. And I think those deals can kind of balance out, taking care of a certain chunk of economics, but also create just a little bit more flexibility and also get players back at a younger age to potential UFA status.

So Austin was asked about McDavid's contract. He had some really good quotes about it. You have set it up so that McDavid, Werenski, and Matthews could be unrestricted free agents altogether, in the summer of 2028. So what I'm asking you is, do you see a future or any two of these three are playing together?

Yeah, I saw that. And obviously, Austin, Connor, know each other, know each other for a long time. Again, can't overstate how lucky I feel to represent both of them. And I know they have a tremendous respect for one another, both as people and players. And, you know, I get shows,

My clients, I'm proud of them. They have an understanding of, you know, how things work, how the business works, and respect everyone's in their own situation, as Austin mentioned. And I thought it just showed a lot of class in his comments. And I know it's a two-way street. Well, when they're competing against each other, either international or in games, it's all about winning. And yet, I'm just proud of the respect they have for each other.

And that's just too far in the future. You know, it so happens, I guess, that they're all UFA the same summer. What the future holds, I don't know. I think I can clearly stay for all three of them. They love their organizations, the Leafs, the Jackets, the Oilers, respectively. And for them, it's winning where they're at. And in all three cases, have only played for one organization. And if they can continue on in a good light there and have a chance to win,

hopefully they all stay where they are. I think that's sort of the easy target that they're all UFA the same summer is again, I guess, an interesting scenario. But what the future holds, I don't know. Okay, so we thank Judd for his time, for his insight. We hope you enjoyed that conversation as well. Taking us out on this edition of 32 thoughts

is a track by Lost Faculty, the Hamilton four-piece band dealing in guitar-driven songs that hit with urgency and grit made up of Matt Burdette, Nigel Cruz, Brendan Reynolds, and Justin Ross. Their music lives in the moment,

written in fragments of tension and release, then carried to life on stage. For the band, the stage is the center of gravity. Every set is a high-stakes exchange. Their debut album is slated for release in 2026 and aims to capture the same, immediacy in force that fuels their live shows.

They have a few of them coming up later on this month, October the 17th at the Atria in Ashwa, Ontario, and the 24th at Jimmy Jazz in Guelph, Ontario. The latest single that dropped just a few days ago. This is Lost Enough by Lost Faculty on 32 Thoughts, The Podcast. Send me searching for the slide And you ran with me for miles In no concrete lace had a breakneck face You rammed me around like a child

Or will be bad if I saw it just to break you up Have I lost enough you to help Have I lost enough for you to help Have you got something let I take Have you got something left to take? Barrier boots on my beating heart so I won't have to drown When I face it lame on every last display I've chased around this town Holding a concrete lace that'll bring their pace to head me around like a child

Holder be buried by the sun Just a break you I'll break you Have I lost enough You have Have I lost enough But you know Have you got something left to take

Have you got something left to take Have you got something left to take? Have I lost enough for you now? Have I lost enough for you now? Have you got something left to take? Have you got something left to take? Have I lost enough for you hell? Have I lost enough for you hell?

Have you got something left to take? Have you got something left to take? Oh, take it!