32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Empire State of Pressure

Episode Date: November 29, 2024

In this edition of 32 Thoughts, Kyle Bukauskas and Elliotte Friedman begin things by delving into the New York Rangers' struggles and Chris Drury's league-wide trade memo. Then, Kyle and Elliotte talk about Filip Hronek's injury and the struggling Canucks defense (17:38). Plus, they discuss Kyle Dubas's attempts at turning the Pens roster over (19:00). The fellas unpack the Panthers latest performances amid some struggles (23:09) and delve into the Brady Tkachuk discourse (29:00) before unpacking a league wide warning about tampering (31:49). Kyle and Elliotte play with the idea that Joey Daccord could suit up for Canada at the 4 Nations Faceoff (38:12) and the Final Thought focuses on the Anaheim Ducks and their struggle to balance learning lessons with a positive atmosphere in the room (43:13).  Kyle and Elliotte answer your questions in the Thought Line (52:36).In the final segment of the show, Kyle and Elliotte are joined by David Amber as the three of them select and debate all four 4 Nations Faceoff rosters ahead of the official announcement this week. (1:05:52).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call the Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailThis podcast was produced and mixed by Dominic Sramaty and hosted by Elliotte Friedman & Kyle Bukauskas.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.  

Both Kyle and I had William Zetterlund. Both Dave and I... Fabian Zetterlund. What did I say? William? What am I, an idiot? Okay, hold on. Excuse me.

Both... I don't even know the guy's name. Leave that in. William Eklund Fabian Zetterlund. Don't worry, I have that one. Your prog buddies. Welcome to 32 Thoughts, the podcast presented by the GMC Sierra AT4X. Shramadi, Bukaskis, Friedman, all with you once again.

Elliot Emerson-Edom. That's all I have to say. Yes, Kyle, thank you for bringing that up right away. I was going to do it in the thought line, but no time better than the present. All the people who reached out about alliterative or double initial names who pointed out that we forgot to go back to EE, and I had three separate tweets pointing out Emerson Edom. Now, I wanted to-

My mother texted me that we forgot. Really, eh? Yes, everyone has given us a hard time what's what's your mom's name marg shouldn't have taken you that long to answer it thank you marg for listening to the podcast because my own family doesn't listen to this podcast but there was someone who sent me a note i wanted to point this out his name was anthony and he brought up for yy yegor yakovlev a defenseman oh wow 25 games for new jersey but anthony i want to let you know that this is under dispute because while there are people out there who spell Yegor Yakovlev with a Y,

officially it's with an E, E-G-O-R, no Y in front. So while we appreciate you pointing it out and do say that there are those who agree with your interpretation, officially it is not that way. Thank you once again, Dean and Mark from Carlisle, Ontario For creating the latest Thoughtline Hailstorm Yes, yes So another busy pod here today, Elliot

Later on in the episode, we are going to compare notes For our own Four Nations rosters The official unveiling coming next Wednesday. We also have a special guest for that. So stay tuned as we discuss that a little bit later on. For now, though, Elliot, we should start in Manhattan and the New York Rangers. So you had the reporting early in the week

that seemed to have let it be known they're looking to shake things up potentially. Chris Kreider, Jacob Truba were the names that were put out there. After Wednesday night, the losing streak is now four for the Rangers after dropping one to the Hurricanes. What's the latest

for the Blue Shirts? Well, it's been tough in the aftermath, Kyle. They lost before it happened, that really ugly loss in Edmonton, and then they lost after it happened, and again after it happened to Carolina in a game where they had the lead in the third period. But you could just see Carolina coming and taking control of the game.

And I think that this has had a heavy impact on the Rangers. And, you know, number one, I think some of this is philosophical. You know, the Rangers players, they see their record. They know they're not playing great. But in the overall grand scheme of things, they know they're going to be judged on the playoffs. They were 12-6-1 when Drury sent the note. and they were kind of like, this is an overreaction. And Drury, I remember years ago, remember when Alex Anthopoulos was the GM of the Blue Jays,

and he went out and he traded for David Price, and they didn't have a great record at the time. But what Anthopoulos did was he looked at the underlying numbers and he said despite the fact the record isn't very good our run differential is very strong he says we are a better team than our record is indicating and that's why I'm going for it and I always remembered him saying that and Chris Drury is looking at the underlying numbers of the Rangers and you're the one who pointed out before this all happened that they are bleeding chances and he said this is a mirage and we do not have what we need to have and I would also suspect that everybody knows the owner of the Rangers Jim Dolan is a wild card

when he fired John Davidson and Jeff Gorton and replaced them with Drury it's not like this was a wandering aimless organization this is an organization that came out and said we're going rebuild. And then Panarin landed on their lap and they started going. And they were really on a trajectory into a great place. But they had some dispiriting losses to the Islanders. They got pushed around a bit. Dolan didn't like what he was seeing. And he made the change and I think on some level

Chris jury's got to be looking at all of this seeing the underlying numbers knowing the volatility of his owner and Thinking it's like this Kyle if you have a partner in life and you guys got together because your partner cheated on somebody else You always have to remember that the same thing could happen to you and I gotta think that on some level Chris jury is sitting there and saying I got my job under these circumstances same thing could happen to me and there is a chance change could be coming to the Rangers like we don't know what the cap is going to look like next year but we know Shusterkin and what he's asking for if they decide to do it it's going to fundamentally change what they can do

and there's other decisions they have to make like they're a year away from Panarin's contract coming up Keandre Miller has had a rough year so far, but his contract's coming up. So there's a lot of different pressures there. And I think all of that baked into the pie of what happened this week. I think there's a lot of pressure on this Ranger team, and that's why Drury did what he did. Now, I'll say this too. There were some people who said to me,

he's not serious. He's just trying to send a lightning bolt or an earthquake through the dressing room. And he hopes that that will get the team going because he knew it was going to get out. I had some interesting feedback from GMs and agents about that. They tend to think that yes this does happen from time to time Kyle but that doesn't usually go through the GM text exchange. That list is generally considered for serious things only and is not

to be used as a frivolity. And if a name ends up there, it's real. We'll see, but I had some people who really disputed my point that it was purely a shake-up attempt because people tend not to fool around with that GM's list. And I don't know the inner workings of all that, but doesn't it seem like he had to have known that there was at least a pretty good chance that this was going to become quite public. I mean, it's one thing to say, hey, we're looking at potentially doing something to improve our team,

to provide a bit of a shockwave through the locker room, but to have two prominent names, one of them being your captain and a guy that's been there for over a decade in Chris Kreider. There had to have been some sort of level of understanding that this was likely to get out and how that would all play out within the dressing room. And we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, too, Elliot, about, you know, I'm down here in Florida, just spent a couple of days around the Panthers. It's a different situation for them because they won last year. But there's a lot of talk of, OK, summoning the energy to embrace the grind once again. The Rangers had a heck of a regular season last year.

Their second trip to the conference final in three years, they won the President's Trophy. And maybe they're going through another stretch similar to Florida of understanding and embracing what all goes into trying to at least get back there to have a chance at being one more series better than they were a year ago. Do you find that could be what this is more about? Like, I'm just going, like, I'm looking back at through, Chris Kreider spoke about it.

Obviously, Trouba did too. But as Kreider said, you know, let's go through this now and figure out who we are he said there's frustration there's angst there's tension clearly it's they're all feeling it in there I just wonder if this was a way to to motivate them as opposed to action actually coming out of this well that's the thing like that's the debate and to be honest it's probably hard to make those trades right now right like teams are tight to the cap not a lot of teams have a lot of room I mean Trouba's been out there before so he knows that I mean the timing he probably didn't like to hear it but he knows that this is going on around him

and his comments at the beginning of the year made it seem very obvious to me Kyle that he knows this is his last year as a Ranger so he's probably more I don't know he's probably more I don't know if it piece is the right word but he's probably recognizing that this is where this is headed Kreider it was different it was new I still think Kreider is hard to move at this time of year because of the salary and how early it is in the season. But I find it very hard to believe there wouldn't be interest in him. He is the kind of player that teams covet, keeps himself in great shape, really good team player, pretty low maintenance guy. Like he doesn't cause you a lot of problems he just goes out and he plays and you know the thing about Kreider is that's the one that definitely caused

the shockwaves he's your long-serving Ranger he's a guy who could have left before and you know took a deal that he probably could have beaten on the open market but he wanted to be a ranger. And the thing about this is Kreider's been in trade rumors before, but not for a long time. So that's why this one is new and this one is different. I thought he really handled it. He met with the media the other day. I thought he really handled it well. I thought the thing that was really interesting was that he kind of detailed his injuries a bit right a lot more than a lot of players would would do and I thought that was really fascinating because we deal in situations like you know last year in the playoffs Willie Nylander he didn't care what the outcry was

didn't want his injury out Austin Matthews like we know he went to germany but he still is very careful about what his injury is it's very rare in this day and age when you have a player come right out and say this is what's bothering me and this is the issue like another player said to me it was kind of like crider was saying you know buyer beware this is what you're dealing with like like another player took it to mean Kreider doesn't want to go anywhere. He loves being a ranger. His family is happy being rangers and he's really secure in the community. And he took it as, this is your warning that this is what you're dealing with if you try to trade for me. And I thought that was a really interesting theory but you know the other thing too about the Rangers is you know we work at a really corporate environment right we work at Rogers Rogers has

rules all big corporations do there's rules about how you conduct yourself in the workplace there's rules about how you conduct yourself on social media like Kyle you and I have to watch like several videos a year about what Rogers rules are and you know MSG is a very corporate environment and normally those kinds of things don't bleed into sports teams because sports teams have CBAs right and so the CBAs kind of you you know, supersede or set the ground rules for what kind of acts are acceptable or not, right? So there's usually a separation of church and state there. But I think at MSG, occasionally the rules of that company have kind of bled into the hockey team a bit or around the hockey team a

bit and I think all of that like it just it's it's not an easy environment they're very hard on their media rules they're very careful about things like that like who can talk to the media what circumstances you can talk to the media media traveling circumstances you can talk to the media, media traveling with the team. Like it's one of those places where there are a lot of rules. And I know in my own existence, like, hey, you agree to work at Sportsnet. You understand the way the rules work. But I think I'm like it. Everyone else, the more rules they are, the more I kind of chafe at it.

Right. Like, it's not like I'm looking to try to treat anybody really badly, but I'm like, life should be about common sense, really, like just treat people properly. But I think whenever you go places where there are more rules, I think it's more of a challenge. And I think MSG is one of those places where I just think there are a lot of rules so I think between the losing and the expectations and I think there's a lot of stress there a lot of stress and it boiled over this week and I think the other thing too that happens here Kyle is that people aren't only going to talk to Drury about who we put on the memo they're also going to say well what else are you thinking about doing out there?

Like like what about this guy or what about that guy? so I think you start to see situations where other names start to filter out there because People who might have interests other than who he's named on The roster so it's gonna be an interesting time and now I think what exacerbates it like the Thanksgiving Day off couldn't come at a better day for the Rangers everybody there needs to get away from the drink spend some time with their families and just breathe because they're not playing

well that clearly rattled them and this is the day this is the best time for you to take a deep breath and you know the other thing i would say to kyle is that you know i've been in situations before where i haven't been happy and the one thing i really do believe is that you owe it to yourself to be successful in spite of that like i'm sure there's some rangers players who are like really do i want to lay down my body for this do i want to block a shot for this ultimately you you have to do it for yourself you have to just say you know whether you say you know what i'm better than this and i'm gonna stand up for myself and my teammates or I'm gonna prove these guys wrong or you say forget these guys I'm just gonna do it because

it's the right thing to do you have to put it behind you and you have to compete and play because you know you're a professional and that's the way it is like I said I've there have been times I haven't been happy with places I worked for but I'm on TV or on this pod several times a week and I'm putting myself out there if I mail it in the listeners are going to let me know it and the viewers are going to let me know it and ultimately who's the person who's going to suffer I'm going to suffer so you have to stand up and do the best possible job because that's the person who's going to suffer? I'm going to suffer. So you have to stand up and do the best possible job because that's the only way to live your life.

I hope you're happy right now, bud. We'll see how I feel when we unveil these teams. Yes, that's right. When Kreider, how he detailed his injury, it just reminded me, I remember the late Brian Murray calling the press conference for the micro fracture to the finger of Mark Stone in the playoff series against Montreal. Different set of circumstances altogether, but it was one of those out of nowhere where in the playoffs, you never hear about injuries. And here he was going to the nth degree and describing what the injury to his star young player at the time all was.

But yeah, you said a good time for an exhale for the rangers but not a lot of time they play in philly friday today in the afternoon and then in montreal on saturday right back at it for the rangers okay philip ronick elliott canucks made a late attempt at a comeback against pittsburgh on the road comes up short late in in that one, though, Hronik, what looked like to be kind of an innocent bump, but just in that perfect no man's land space between him and the boards. And you could tell right away there was a problem. Is there any update on what his status could be going forward? Well, as we record this, there's no specific update, but I just heard he's going to miss some time. I don't know what the

exact prognosis is or what might need to be done or not be done but I just heard he's gonna miss some time and that's obviously a huge loss for them and you know we'll see what they decide to do in terms of filling the space I think the big concern for them is that a lot of their defensemen haven't played very well. Hughes has been very good. And Hronik is very important. Like it's the minutes you lose, right? And the responsibility you lose. But if you're planning on having him come back, and I hope that that's the case, any move you make has got to be with that in mind. You can trade for whoever, but you've got to be able to activate people right so i always wonder about that although it is a front office that is very very aggressive they don't sit and wait all right elliot we were just mentioning pittsburgh there they made the trade not too long ago for phil tomasino as kyle Dubas tries to turn the roster over while keeping his core players intact as they move into the next stage.

And you have a theory on another player they could potentially be looking at. I have to say I was annoyed at myself for not seeing the Tomasino thing coming. Because I think there's a bunch of guys that kind of in the middle in Nashville, young players there who are feeling a bit of a squeeze. And those are the kinds of players that Pittsburgh is targeting. Young guys who need a fresh start or haven't worked out somewhere else. Like Thomas, you know, when I saw he was traded to Pittsburgh, my immediate reaction was, how come you didn't think of that? Answer, because I'm not very smart.

But how come you didn't think of that answer because I'm not very smart but how come you didn't think of that and you know I'm watching Kirby Doc in Montreal and it was just you know last week he was up to 19 minutes a game twice in a row but since then he's been back down he's 60 and a half 50 and a half and the last two games, including Wednesday in Columbus under 15. And obviously Montreal's got a lot of young players with more to come. And I'm sitting here and thinking, okay, who else could Pittsburgh target? And look, I'm not saying that they're talking to Montreal or anything like that, but I'm just saying if you're looking for guys that Kyle Dubas could look at and say this is another one that maybe it's worth taking a shot at

and what would he learn next to the likes of Malkin and Crosby? I can't help but wonder about Kirby Dock being that kind of a guy. So my question to you is, you watch him more often than me, what do you think of Dock? And do you think that makes any sense yeah potentially could i just you know it's it's obviously been a tough couple of years for him with the injury last year but he was saying you know if if last season the canadians you know punched way above their weight class and somehow were in the mix to get into a playoff spot. He said he was on track to be ready to return in early April.

So, you know, by and large, he had a pretty regular summer, despite missing basically all of last season. I didn't have a problem with the move at all when they first made it there. I thought there was, you there was another young player that under the tutelage of Martins Saint-Louis and company, it was a perfect environment to get the most out of Doc's potential there. I've been puzzled. I've been puzzled with, I mean, it's been a struggle for the team

in general for large stretches as we've talked about and all know about. You know, it's a big body that he moves pretty well. It just hasn't been a fit, whether it's line mates or what have you. Production-wise, consistency-wise, you mentioned the ice time starting to take a dip here as as time goes on not to say that that can't get get turned around I'm hesitant to for a team like Montreal who knows if they're even considering this of course as you say but to give up on on a player this early it's certainly not you know Kent Hughes and Jeff Gordon's MO or St. Louise for that matter. True. But I've, but I haven't, I didn't see this coming. I will say you expect a bit of growing pains and just getting back up to speed and playing in the NHL every night after

effectively a year removed from that. But I didn't see this coming. I will say that. So you're saying I'm not completely dumb? No, not completely. Just like with the Utah HC stuff. Not completely. Oh, I hear we're getting to that. We'll get to that in the thought line. Don't worry, listeners.

We all saw your tweets, submissions, DMs, all of it. We'll get to it in a little bit. You want to talk about the Panthers here for a sec? Sure. After beating Toronto on Wednesday? Yeah, I did a bit. Nothing major, but the one thing that I really have noticed about them then, look, they lost four in a row.

They hadn't been great. Maurice was in a really ornery mood. But I go back to their two games against Boston this year and they were ready for those ones that game against Toronto last night big spotlight game they were ready for that one the one thing about Florida is

when the playoffs start they're going to be fine they're going to be ready for the playoffs and the road through the Atlantic and the Eastern Conference still goes through the elbow room no matter what happens no matter what happens during the regular season that has not changed this is still the team to beat and the way they've played in some of these big Ravelry games has convinced me of that and I think you've got to know that they've got an organization that won't be satisfied with

just one cup they'll go for two and they'll add what they need to add. And that game last night, they controlled it from beginning to end. And I think Toronto's pretty good, but that outcome was not in doubt last night. And watching them, that was a message. We're going to not be the way we are for 82 games, but when it matters, we're going to be there. So I've tried to do my best Paul Maurice decoding here the last couple of days, albeit to very little success, if any at all.

But he's talked about, well, one, I think he's taken subtle jabs at their schedule this year, making remarks that, you know, if we think we're going to get to a point where we're feeling good again, it's not going to happen. So we've just got to get that through our heads and then we'll be OK. But the other thing he's talked about, he wouldn't say specifically, but he's going, there's something that we're missing and it's not going to come back for us. And we have to understand that. It's not something we're going to get back. It is just what we are without. And that was kind of as far as he was going. And I'm looking around now. You've got Ryan Lomberg. He's in Calgary.

Brandon Montour. He's in Seattle. Nick Cousins. He's in Ottawa. Stephen Lawrence. Anthony Stolarz. Man, I learned quickly down here the last couple days. They loved Stolarz down here, even though it was just for one season.

Him, Lawrence, O'Neal, they're gone now. Even Kevin Stenland, to an extent. He's in Utah. They weren't the top dollar guys. They weren't playing necessarily 23 minutes a night. But all of those players, by and large, great characters, great personalities, great influences. So as much as they still got a hell of a team there, Elliot, I think that's been probably their biggest loss after winning the Cup. That's been probably their biggest loss after winning the cup.

Those personalities that aren't there anymore, that when you start to get in a bit of a grind of a season or you're going through a tough stretch, the names and faces and voices that helped get you through that, a big chunk of what that was for the Panthers and what made that team so great in a lot of ways, not there anymore. And they're trying to figure their way through this journey in 24 25 without it that's my theory i could be way off but that was my read on it no i think that it's a good theory like you always lose players after you win a

championship right because some of those players it's their best chance ever to cash in and they do and I can't fault them for that they've won they want to cash in and also like if you look at the way they construct their roster they they're big believers in everybody takes a little bit less like Reinhardt could have got more in the open market last year so we can make our team better. And they always say, like, especially the deeper you go down the lineup, the more they try to squeeze and find the bargains, like a lot of teams do. And Zito is not afraid to make hard decisions. Like, he'll make difficult decisions if he thinks they give him a better chance to win. I don't fault any of that.

he thinks they give him a better chance to win. I don't fault any of that but the one thing is like if you look at that game that you were at on Wednesday night look who were the guys that scored first goal Barkov, second goal Samuskiewicz and I really like that guy I think he's turning into a really good player, third goal Reinhardtt. Fourth goal, Verhege. Empty net goal, Bennett. Look at the assists. Verhege, Kachuk, Bennett, Rodriguez, Barkov, Louis de Rijn and another good player for them. Ekblad, Verhege. Like all their top guys were on the scoreboard. That's going to be a hard team to beat. No matter what's going on down deeper in the lineup,

if you get that combination of point getters in big games, good luck with that. It's going to be hard. They're going to be a hard out. That was the message they sent to me. Did you see anything else down there? Did you see the Stanley Cup rings that the three Leaf players got? Not in person, not in person, but a couple of the Leafs conceded that they took a peek at them and as much

as they wish it was their own, they're going, yeah, those are, those are pretty spectacular. All the Leaf players did? The Leaf players did? Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I overheard after the game as some of the, you know,

the ex Panthers and the current Panthers were saying hi once the, the night was over. One of the Panthers just said to him you caught us at the wrong time sorry guys i'm sure they weren't really they knew they needed to have yes no no no no of course not of course not hey well from matthew kachuk to uh brady kachuk we talked a lot about ottawa the last couple of pods here elliott but you wanted to weigh in on the Ottawa captain discourse. One of the things I was really intrigued about was, you know, Chuck took a lot of criticism this week. I don't really have any problem with that.

I think nobody is free from criticism. Everybody gets questions sometimes, and that's okay. But sometimes I always wonder, okay, is this a short thing or is there some growing discontentment I mean you live there you can tell me and you know the one thing I'll say about this is if this is just a blip that's fine no issues here but if this is growing discontentment I would say be careful what you wish for in Ottawa you know it when I heard a great story this week that when Brady Kachuk during his draft year, when he met with the Oilers, they asked him, like, would you be happy to come here?

And he kind of, he said something along the lines of, I would love to come to Edmonton and take on my brother five times a year. And you can't find people like that like in addition to how great he is as a player for him to walk into that meeting and say that there's not a lot of people that are wired that way and um you know i don't think the ottawa centers are obviously in any hurry to move on from brady kachuk but i would just say to the ottawa fans, if it's serious that this is a growing thing and people are really unhappy with him, if he goes, you're never getting that back. There's not a lot of guys like him. Like, look at, I'm sure in Calgary, they looked at Matthew winning the cup two years after he left the team and said boy we really wish that was us and there's no reason the same thing couldn't happen with Brady so again one-offs are totally fine perfectly normal

we all get criticism it's all fair but I would be really really careful with being serious that this is not the right captain or the right leader for your team because you'll regret it when he's gone. Travis Green's line, sometimes when you have something for a while, you forget what you have. And I think that sums it all up perfectly. All right, Elliot.

Also this week, I understand you were hearing that teams were being warned about tampering. So what's all going on there? Remember at the GM meetings, Bill Daly spoke to the GMs about tampering. And he and some people at the league were really upset on July 1st last year. Like basically it's 1201 and then we all start just pouring out the deals one deal after another and you know some of them are pretty complicated between the bonus structure and the no trade clause and things like that and you know it's obvious what's going on like

I don't care I really don't I wish they wouldn't have gotten rid of the free agency week window period. It doesn't bother me but obviously it drives the league bananas. So they made sure that at the GM meetings they were warned about it and I think something more formal was detailed this week. And, you know, one of the things I heard was that they reminded people about the penalty if you get caught. And there's like fines up to $5 million per team. They warned them you could lose draft picks. They warned them either forfeited

or they could be given to other teams. They warned individuals they could be punished with suspensions or worse and that individuals could face a million dollar fines and I think even there was even something in there about I heard about players can't tamper like say that oh I want to play with this guy or something like that like they're trying to obviously some people take this more seriously than others, even inside the league, but the league office is making it very clear.

It wants this taken a lot more seriously and it reminded them of what happens if you go the wrong way. And, you know, it was funny, like what one guy said to me is that instead of next year, when you come on July 1st at noon, Elliot, instead of at 12.01, you can start riffing these things off. Everyone might make you wait three hours before anyone gives you anything because they it's pretty obvious that they're willing to make kyle an example out of somebody if they catch them well that's what i wonder about

because as you mentioned in years past it's no secret 12 over one and in a lot of cases even before that you're going hey look out for this at noon eastern time so i feel it would not be very difficult that the league truly wanted to enforce those rules uh to find proof that it was going on but they haven't like i just feel this is part of the free agency window now and it's just a little confusing because i mean for years if they wanted to enforce it they could have but didn't I guess there was just something like right after July 1st this year when I was going on my vacation someone said to me the league hated this this year and it's funny like when when we talk about this I'll say I don't care about this and I will run into people who care about it a lot like they

think it's wrong I don't think there's a majority of people like that but I run into people who care about it a lot. Like they think it's wrong. I don't think there's a majority of people like that, but I think the people who do care about it, care about it a lot and they just don't like it. And I guess the league office is one of those groups of people. You know, the famous case in the NBA was about almost 30 years ago it was in 1998 it was Joe Smith of the Minnesota Timberwolves well he was in Golden State he turned down an

80 he was the number one pick and then he when he I think was three years later he was eligible for UFA and he turned down an 80 million dollar deal and then the market collapsed around him like Like he didn't get what he thought he was going to get. So he signed a one year deal in Minnesota and the league, and this was David Stern and he ran the NBA with an iron fist. He did not like it. And, you know, he had power and he basically, he uncovered that there was a deal on paper. The way the NBA works is if you have a player's rights for three years, you can go over the cap to resign them. That's the way the NBA player works.

It's called the Larry Bird rule. And so they were going to sign him to three one-year deals and then they were going to sign him to a huge deal that was going to make up for the money he was going to lose like basically i think it was like they had a 90 million dollar contract worked out and they put it on paper and the timberwolves got hammered they lost five first-round draft picks imagine five first round eyes they were fined three and a half million dollars and the owner who was Glenn Taylor who actually still owns the team and the GM at the time who was Kevin McHale they got suspended too so the league just hammered them so the

what the lesson is if they catch, they can really embarrass you. And just the fact that Daly brought it up at the GM meetings and the fact that the teams were like formally notified and warned on some level, it just says to me that they're looking for someone who is not careful and they just may do it. So they're warning everybody, be careful. That's like, do you remember that SNL cold open years ago? Remember the Super Bowl? I think it was the Niners and the Ravens when there was the power outage.

Yes, the power failure, yes. And they did the whole spoof on how they filled and it was just like, and back to you. And no, back was just like, and back to you. And no, back to you. And right back to you. I got to just picture you and David on July 1st, back to you and each other for three hours. David's got a bigger panel so they can stay on with it.

But I'm wondering if next year there is a concerted effort not to do everything right at noon. Be interesting to watch. Maybe not. Yes, maybe not. do everything right at noon. Be interesting to watch. Maybe not. Yes, maybe not. That could be the problem. Also, I mean, we'll get into the Four Nations roster stuff later on in the pod, but you wrote in the blog not too long ago this far-fetched idea.

Could Joey Decord suit up for Team Canada at the event in February? Because his father is Canadian of course and you mentioned his mother is Swiss as well and there was some possible ties to Swiss hockey that fell through in the past so could he play for Canada? You know first of all I want to shout out the man who was responsible for all this carnage none of this happens without matt marchese because matt marchese was the guy who realized that the court in theory could play for team canada and without his discovering of this fact you don't go to bill daly last week in Ottawa and ask, could this be true? And I have to tell you this, and you can tell me if I'm wrong here, Kyle.

I think this came as a complete surprise to everybody. I think Mark Casey was way ahead of everybody on this story. Am I wrong? I don't think so like the sense I got from the league was well this is the first we're hearing of it which almost told you all you needed to know he was he was playing chess Mark Casey and I'll tell you something else I heard which is really funny is that someone from USA hockey told me that they wanted Decord to play for team USA last year at the world championships but because he needed to recover over the summer from an injury he said no and if he plays last year none of this is even a question.

He's Team USA. But because he had an injury and he begged off, he's still open. So he has a choice to make. Like, he could play for Canada. He could play for Switzerland. He could play for the USA. Like, it's wide open for him here. And this was leading to an interesting debate.

Like, what would you do? What would you pick? What's the easiest path? Would he pick the U.S. because he was born there? But, like, basically, it sounds like whoever wants them can recruit them. So we'll see. Like, I don't think Team USA, and as you said, we're going to go over our picks with Dave.

I don't think, like, I was thinking if I was Team USA, I almost might go to him now to prevent him from playing anywhere else. Like, hey, bring him as, why don't you come, be our third, and you're an American. But I think he's open to being recruited. It's a phenomenal story. Marchese, take a bow, Matt. Like, you really hit one into the upper deck here. So this week, Elliot, I mean, we had Dan McKenzie,

the president of the Canadian Hockey League So this week, Elliot, I mean, we had Dan McKenzie, the president of the Canadian Hockey League, on a couple of weeks ago. They had the first CHL USA Prospects Challenge, a collection of this year's draft eligible players from the three Canadian

hockey leagues against the U18 US NTDP squad. Team CHL won both games. There was, how long ago was that now? Well, it was a few weeks. Your line hurting for Haggins, as in James Haggins, who could go first overall this coming June, but you're starting to hear that the path and climb to first overall could be a little more wide open than many may have thought at the start of this season. Yeah, so I was working on Wednesday because Sam Cosentino was at those two games, the CHL top prospects game against the U.S. team,

and the CHL dominated those games. I guess it's just a down year for the U.S. group, but they got beaten up twice pretty badly by the Canadian teams. And, you know, Cos knows this stuff better than I do. And he just said he thinks it's a four-person race for the number one spot. And he named Michael Misa and Porter Martone and Higgins and Matthew Schaefer. And Schaefer in particular seemed to have two great games against the top competition. And I just checked with a couple people, and they agreed with Sam. It's not a guarantee Higgins goes number one,

although they pointed out whoever gets him is going to be very happy to have him. But he says the number one spot is more open than I think a lot of people believed. And I think that's a good thing. Intrigue before the draft is interesting. All right. Well, that'll lead us to the final thought, which is brought to you by GMC. Elliot, the Anaheim Ducks, seventh in the Pacific, but they are a 500 hockey team at the U.S. Thanksgiving mark of the calendar,

which is not nothing considering how the last number of years have gone in Southern California. So in your mind, what have these Ducks shown you over this last couple of weeks where they've won four times in their last six games? We haven't talked a lot about Anaheim this year. We had some people who sent me some notes, said, you know, what are you hearing about the Ducks? Because I think there's been some conversation about what their room is like. And at the end of last year, I heard there's

some questions about whether or not Greg Cronin was going to return as head coach. So I've known Cronin for a while. He was in Toronto as an assistant coach for a while. And when the job came open post Dallas Aikens, people told me that watch Cronin. And I remember I put it into a note and it's one of those few times I actually turned out to be right because Pat Verbeek really liked Cronin. And I asked some players and some agents

who played for him in Colorado with the American Hockey League team the Eagles and I said what do you think and they said he is tough but he is a good teacher like Sam Malinsky who plays now for the Avalanche and looks like a really good find for them he had a lot of places to go and he chose to go to Colorado at the time even though they had like really high-end top players on their blue line because as one of his representatives told me they heard great things about Cronin as a teacher that's one of the reasons that Malinsky ended up going there and he's making the jump. So I thought that was really interesting because Anaheim was in a place where they needed somebody who is a teacher because they were on their way back up.

But he's hard. There's no question about that. He's really tough. And at the end of last year, I know that there were some complaints about him maybe being too hard and you know Pat Verbeek stood behind his head coach and he said we're not making a change but I do think one of the things they talked about was is there a way that maybe things could be lightened up a little bit you don't want to drop your standards. You still want to force people to compete hard and you want your team to get better. And the Ducks really want to get better. And one of the things they did was they brought in Rich Kloon, very, very popular

player, ex-player from the Toronto Marlies organization. Like it's just a real success story as a human being and a guy who was very popular teammate because they wanted someone more positive on the bench and still some of the stories come out that it's it's still really tough there and it's a really hard dressing room and you know one of the things i do think is that when you're not winning it's hard like like I do think it's very difficult to expect fun when your team is expected to finish somewhere between 25th and 32nd like even when you're starting out and you've got young players and you're trying to teach them like I don't know how many people would have fun in a situation where you've been where you have been for the last few years even if you've embraced

a rebuild even if you're really excited about your prospects like you asked the San Jose guys last year when you're losing like that all season it's not fun it sucks to go to the rink so I don't know how it could be fun now the one thing I do agree with is that you can to be demanding of your players but you still have to have an environment where it's not crushing there has to be fun moments you have to make it on some level enjoyable to come to the rink and the one thing I did hear about Anaheim last season is that when you have a GM who's hard and Pat Verbeek is a hard guy and you have a coach who's hard and Greg Cronin is a hard guy it's a lot like I remember when Brian Burke was in Anaheim he talked about the value of Taimou Solani he said I'm at the rink every day and I'm a grouch. Randy Carlisle is at the rink every day and he's a grouch.

Taimou Solani walks in every day smiling and happy and he dissipates all of Burke and Carlisle's anger in the moments where it doesn't matter. Like during games, you've got to be serious, but otherwise Solani is such a happy guy that it cancels all of their other stuff. And I thought about that and I said, you know what? That's that's a good point. Now, the difference is there is that they were winning at that time. Like they won a Stanley Cup. They were one of the top teams in the NHL.

And I think the other thing, too, is, is that the veteran players there, the guys who were brought in to teach, I think they're also very demanding of the young players. Like I don't often think it's coach versus players. I think sometimes it's players versus players, like depending on different ages or different experience or different accomplishments. like depending on different ages or different experience or different accomplishments. And the one thing I think Verbeek really believes is that the players are going to have to be taught in no uncertain terms what it takes to win. And but I also think you have to be realistic about where your team is and how far it is away from winning and all I'm trying to say is I think this is a really hard balance again I've talked about my conversations with Zetterlund and Eklund before in Prague this year Zetterlund in particular was a guy was really

intrigued with because he talked about how you try to make it fun, but it's impossible when you're losing all the time. And look, they're on a hot streak right now. They looked really good. They really hammered Seattle the other night, the night before Thanksgiving. I realize I probably don't have great answers on this, but one thing I really feel strongly about is when you're losing, I don't understand how it's supposed to be anything but hard. You still have to do fun things like team building events. Maybe you have some fun competitions at practice.

But the only way you ever really get out of that is players gaining more experience and players learning how hard it is to win. I think what this is proof of is the Ducks are trying to find that right spot about walking the line between, you know what, you guys have some hard lessons you have to learn here and it's still hockey at the end of the day. And even though it's your job, you have to learn here and it's still hockey at the end of the day and even though it's your job you have to enjoy it and i also think that it's more than just coach players i think it's players players and like some of the players are like we expect more out of you too so i like losing sucks losing sucks kyle It really sucks. I remember watching an interview shortly after Cronin was hired there in Anaheim with Alexis Downey, who does provides a lot of great content for for that market there.

And I was really intrigued by what he had to say. It just he really drew me in with, you know, his insight and how he thought about and just the way he viewed life and the game of hockey and all of that. But, you know, it's interesting. Somebody told me that, yeah, he is he is great at the American League level because of everything you said. Teacher, how we can grind guys, because, you know, as a player, either you embrace that grind or you're not going to get to the next level that you want to be at. Bit of a different story, of course, at the NHL level where guys have got their contracts. It's just a different dynamic altogether. And when you're in a position where you haven't been winning a lot, that can make it tough, too. So we'll see where it goes here from Anaheim. And there's no question it's a great thing when the Ducks are competitive, especially for any

market that has been struggling for a while to come out of that once and for all. So we'll see where this two-week stretch leads them as we move into the next portion of the season. That was the final thought brought to you by GMC. We'll take our first break. When we come back, debate the Four Nations

rosters that we have assembled ourselves. But first, it's the Thought Line. 32 Thoughts. Don't go anywhere. Okay, before we get to the Thought Line, as we mentioned at the end of the last podcast, 32 Thoughts is going live in Canmore in the lead up to hockey day in canada in january we're going to be there on the 16th it's a thursday three o'clock at silvertip resort and we've got some tickets to give away 10 pairs in total to the event if you're interested here's

how we're going to give them away we want want you, bear with me here, we want you to call into the thought line 1-833-311-3232 and leave either your best impression of Elliot on the pod or your best impression of me on the pod. We will select the best submissions, the best impressions, and we will get to meet you in person in Canmore in January. We'll do the draw just prior to the holiday season, so our December 23rd episode drop.

So you've got from now until then to brush up on your Freedj or Bukaskis impressions, fill the Thoughtline voicemail with them, and you could be on your way to 32 Thoughts live in Canmore, Alberta at Silvertip.

Okay, welcome back. Time now for the Thoughtline. 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca is the email. You can submit your thoughts or you can call in 1-833-311-3232 and leave a voicemail. Before we get to today's submissions, Elliot, you should know something. Uh-oh. Your actions the last couple of weeks, they've resulted in a hearing.

And the department has ruled. So, Dom, why don't we roll the explanation? Last Thursday, Elliot Friedman took his family to see Taylor Swift, the era's tour in downtown Toronto. While there, Friedman acquired a bag of special edition Swift gummy candies. Apparently, they're quite good. They were getting rave reviews in the audience tonight. As the audio shows, Friedman attempts to open the bag to no avail.

It's important to note this ordeal lasted far longer than what is considered reasonable. You would not believe how challenging this is to open. While Friedman maintains the size of the sticker sealing the bag made the delay unavoidable, his behavior continued three days later. Are you eating those Taylor Swift gummies again? Yes. continued three days later.

Are you eating those Taylor Swift gummies again? Yes. Gosh. You gotta stop eating when we're recording, though. Oh, okay, okay. Just hear you smacking in the background. To summarize, this is gross. It took far too long, and Friedman also has a history of a sweet tooth.

The Department of 32 Sweets finds Elliott Friedman one order of soft serve ice cream for each of his podcast colleagues. I will pay that. I will not appeal. I will pay that. That's a great Damien Echeverrieta imitation, by the way. I hope he hears this. I really do hope he hears this.

It was all out of love and respect for that delivery. And I will say a cap tip to, you brought him up earlier, Sam Cosentino with, he was the brainchild behind that idea. And Dom helped bring it to light. That was really good. I liked it. That was fantastic. Kyle, your imitations are quite good.

Okay. Oh, gosh. Okay. We begin today's thought line from an anonymous NHL staffer. Uh-oh. Elliot Kyle Dom. Hope all is well. Was listening to the pod this week and thought I'd pass along some additional perspective for you guys in regards to the lineup card question from the Thoughtline.

Lineup card question from the Thoughtline. Since COVID, lineup cards have been submitted digitally through a custom portal, often from the video coaches, instead of the formerly used handwritten lineup sheets. As a former video coach, we had multiple instances where our head coach picked a starting lineup, it was submitted, and he either changed his mind or a last-minute situation arose where the submission needed to be changed. Lynch's mind or a last minute situation arose where the submission needed to be changed. As a result, on multiple occasions, us video coaches needed to run around the arena event level, find the referee's room and request permission for a lineup change, often winded from sprinting around the rink. While each of these were memorable experiences, the most memorable was easily minutes before game seven of a playoff series.

Given the emotion and headspace that coaches are in ahead of games, mistakes and forgetting the starting lineups happen. You even have to running through it multiple times before submission. Internal pressure and getting in the right headspace before coaching in front of 18,000 plus has its impact. Thought it was some intel Your listeners would find interesting, appreciate all you guys do to produce the podcast, listen during workouts and have thought about writing in a few times,

particularly around some of the analytics and data insights and takes that you guys make. For example, from the last pod, Kyle manually tracking plus minus doesn't count as tying in data and the eye test, Elliot. That's good. I had no idea. That's great. You know what? I forgot. I forgot that there is a digital way of doing it now. But it's been so long since I've been a rigged side reporter,

Kyle. I forgot. One of the ones I remember was before game seven of the Stanley Cup final in 2004 between Calgary and and Tampa Bay Sean Donovan was hurt for the flames they didn't know if he was going to play and on the handwritten sheet Donovan was name was there and then it was scratched out and they put in I can't remember if it was olig saprekin or somebody else who was put at the bottom uh to play for donovan i always remember that they had him in there and at the last second they took him out but that is great great insight because you think that you would be able to change it if it's digital you would be able to change it up to a certain point but i guess once it's in it in, and you have to go change it that way. Really appreciate the note.

Really appreciate it. And another listener wrote in that, I guess, Jess Campbell and Dan Bilesma, they also had a moment like this during the Calder Cup last year against Hershey, where they caught an incorrect lineup and called them on it during the final series. So I heard about that. They caught an incorrect lineup and called them on it during the final series. So I heard about that. Somebody reached out to me to tell me that the Seattle video coaches should also get credit for that. Like they were the ones who noticed it and told them, hey, the improper lineup was submitted.

But the person said that to me, too, that the Coachella Valley coaching staff had caught one the year before in the playoffs. That's correct. Yes. All right. Up next, Brian, an old prairie dog listening from London, UK. Listening to this segment and screaming right now. Honestly, you guys, how could you have missed such an easy comparison to a current, sorry, historic NHL team? Surely you could have referenced this team, you know, the one who's logo literally... Oh, is this guy talking about the Canadians and CH clubbed hockey? Oh, yes.

Okay, okay, finish it. I have a response to all this because I heard this. So I will finish the letter. Yes. All right. to all this because I heard this. So I will finish the letter. Yes.

All right. You know, the one whose logo literally stands for hockey club or rather club to hockey, short for a club to hockey Canadian. Does this ring a bell? It takes us back to Elliott's nickname for the Utah team. Would Utah HC simply become known as the Utahns in a similar fashion to Canadian HC becoming popularly known as the Utahns in a similar fashion to Canadian HC becoming popularly known as the Canadians. Aside from this missed opportunity, always enjoy the podcast.

And yes, I am a Habs fan. I would say this. I know the history of the Canadians, but they don't call them Montreal CH or Ashe Montreal. So it's not the same. I was bombarded by angry Canadian fans this week, but it's not the same nice I was bombarded by angry Canadian fans this week but it's not the same I it's not it's they have a name the Canadians

it wouldn't be Montreal HC so you're correct in the origin but it would be different all right up next a voicemail listen carefully to the voice of this one Elliot I smell. Listen carefully to the voice of this one, Elliot. Kyle and Elliot will know who this is because I work with them. It's Jeff from Oakville. I'm warning you what the shortest span is between two different coaching gigs during the regular season. Was it Bruce Boudreau, two and a half days? Anaheim, Washington? Yes.

Yes. Very nice. The irony of the former stats guy. That's one of our producers producers, worked his way up. Great story for any young person out there who wants to work their way up in media. Started, I don't even know what he started as at, but he did stats for a long time, and now he's a game producer. A pretty big one.

And the irony of the former stats guy comes in with that question. Yes, Boudreaux is the shortest, also the shortest like between games on the bench too. He was six days between his last one in Washington and first one in Anaheim. Montgomery, as we know, was seven in between days behind the bench

between Boston and St. Louis. The second shortest. Thanks, Jeff from Oakville. All right. We'll wrap with Pavel from Amsterdam. Hello to the most thoughtful of podcasts. Since we've had our first couple of coaching changes this season, I wanted to ask about how the team gets through the transition period.

As I can imagine, it takes time for a new head coach to come in and implement his system and ideas. Do the teams rely on assistant coaches to carry on with the same structure, or they receive instructions from the new head coach on what he wants to see from the team right away? Would be curious to learn more of what's going on behind the scenes while the new head coach settles in. Thank you, and go Amsterdam Tigers. Go Amsterdam Tigers. I think the biggest thing it depends on right away

is how much practice time do you have. And at this point in the year, you can go a long time without really being able to practice properly. So sometimes a coach will come in and says, because there's not really a big difference between systems. Teams play relatively similarly, and players know a lot of the differences between systems, how you forecheck, how you play the neutral zone.

Are you going to play man-on-man or a hybrid or a zone in your own end? The players have an understanding mostly how to play those things. So number one, it'll depend on practice time. Number two, a lot of the time a coach will come in, especially during the season if it's a change during the year, they'll just want to get a feel for the group. Maybe they'll ask the assistant coaches or whoever's left what worked, what didn't, who plays well together, is there anything you really wanted to try? Or they might come in and say there's one thing like they don't jam a bunch of changes down

right away it's like prioritize what's the number one thing we want to do right away and and they might say this is the one thing we're going to change or this is the one line we're going to change or this is who's going to benefit for more ice time a lot of the times what they'll say is they'll go in there and say i don't care what's happened before it's all different under me now like they're trying to give the players a fresh start too so a lot of the actual physical system changes might depend on practice they definitely try to convince players it's all new and maybe they'll pick one or two things they want to change right away or as quickly as possible but other than that it's you're basically flying by the city. You can't do too much in the middle of a season. Yeah. The one common thread you hear through all

of it is don't want to overload the players with too much information right away. Let's just go play and figure it out as they go. Because as you say, you hear it all the time. There's not a lot of practice time in today's NHL with how the schedule is set up and how demanding of a travel itinerary most teams have as well. So, Pavel, thank you for that. And also, don't forget, there's four mandatory days off a month. So that cuts down even more on what you can do. Pavel from Amsterdam, thank you for that submission.

That'll do it for this edition of the Thought Line, 1-833-311-3232 and 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. When we come back, we break down the four nations' rosters of our own with a special guest. You're listening to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. All right. Welcome back to 32 Thoughts. All right, welcome back to 32 Thoughts. Less than a week from now, next Wednesday, the four rosters? We can look at what do we have the same? What's different debate on who is dumber than who, but we didn't want to just have it. The two of us that would get boring after a while. We needed a third party member. So pleased to introduce.

And one of my favorite parts of this guy is that he never listens to this podcast. So please welcome from Scotiabank Wednesday Night Hockey and the NHL on Sportsnet, David Aber. David, how are you, my friend? I love it. A round of applause. So I'm the guinea pig in this whole scenario. It's like you guys need me there to make you guys look smarter is what's happening there was a reason that you were selected okay

I want everyone to know this nobody cares more about this tournament than Dave Amber since his show started this year he's done at least one segment on who's gonna be the roster like their players own families don't care about this tournament as much as David does and secondly, nobody at Sportsnet's entire hockey roster lives and dies more with the Canadian teams than Dave does. When three Canadian teams does when three Canadian teams give up a goal in a minute he falls over with the pain of ten stab wounds but when three Canadian teams score a goal within a minute he is as happy as a parent watching their partner give birth nobody lives and dies more Canada more than Dave.

What do I even say after that? This is getting weird really quickly. Welcome to the pod, big guy. I was going to say, listen, I'm excited for Four Nations because it's been a long time, guys. It's been almost a decade, and we've missed out. The players that I talk to are all excited about it. The ones who are going to be able to participate. I know it's not a perfect tournament. I know we're missing a lot of superstar talents and it's only four nations, but I am excited. I think it's a

great way to break up the NHL regular season, the monotony of the 82 game schedule. And I also think it's going to be cool with some of the storylines of seeing these players together and playing against one another. I'm with you. I think it's going to be spectacular i'm with you so here's how this is going to work so earlier today kyle and dave submitted their rosters to me i merged them with my roster and what i've done is i've just said okay here's how many players we have at each team, at each position that we all agree on. Here's who some of us agree on and some don't. Here's who we left out. And then you can pick apart our teams and we can pick apart each other's picks.

So you guys ready? We'll start with Finland. Are you ready? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So for Finland, there are three forwards already named Sebastian Aho Alexander Barkov and Mikko Rantanen between the three of us we all agreed on eight other players

Michael Grandland, Rupe Hintz, Kapo Kakko, Patrick Laine, Archery Lekkonen, Anton Lundell, Ito Lewastorainen, and Tuvo Teravainen. They were on all of our ballots. Then come the differences. Both Dave and Kyle picked Joel Armia. Both Dave and I picked Matthias Maselli Kyle only picked Eric Holla and I

only picked Jesperi Kotkaniemi thoughts gentlemen well I think I made the best decisions I think you guys are insane listen Yoel Armia I mean what why who did not not be all Armia I didn't

Elliot and I picked him because of his penalty killing I feel that became a theme for me as I went through each of these rosters when I got down to like the 12th and 13th forward you knew you were going to have scorers really and all teams up top that were going to be locks. What happens when you get into those types of scenarios? Who can kill penalties for you? Who can help in some critical points of the game away from scoring? And so that's where I got to Armia in this case. Yeah, I didn't pick. Amen. I don't know. I don't know. I just, I don't know. I don't know. I just. I wrote Dave, I was with you on Maselli. I think they're going to need to score. He can create scoring. And Kotkaniemi is having a pretty good year on a team that's having a good season. I don't know. I just he can play different positions. I think he's going to be there. I really do. Fellas, if this tournament comes down to Maselli or Armia or Kakeniemi, uh-oh.

I mean, we're talking. And I'm not trying to minimize these differences here, but we're not reinventing the wheel here, right? Yes, we are. Well, I'm not having – Listen, I don't take any great exception to cocking, cocking the Emmy being there over Maselli or Armia. I personally, I'm, you know, there's going to be bigger battles to fight.

I imagine in the next 20 minutes. So I'm going to hold my ammunition till then. Fair enough. Now the only name I thought, the only name I thought was missing from anyone and it's not a big one was Tolvanen. That was the only one that kind of all three of us did i wrestled with that one okay i wrestled with it on defense already named miro haiskanen essa lindell the three of us agreed on henry yokoharu niko mikala and rasmus ristalinen Ristolainen we all had them Kyle and Dave picked Ole Mata Kyle and I picked Yanni Håkonpaa and Dave and I both picked Juso Valomaki the funniest thing about all this is when the Dallas Stars had their hall of fame ceremony Yeri Letnan was there because he's had his number retired by the Stars

and he was talking about if Håenpah plays for the Leafs and he hadn't at the time, they might actually have to cut somebody because if he doesn't, they only had really seven guys. So it's not – I don't know. Does anybody feel very strongly between Mata, Hockenpah, and Valamaki that two of them should make over one other? They're kind of replicants of one another, right? Like they're – they kind of – if you look at their NHL resumes,

they're very similar in some respects in the size they bring. I mean, again, I think what's going to be the earmark of this Finland team in a bigger perspective is just they're going to be a pain in the butt to play against. All those guys you named on defense are just guys who are tough to play against, and they're very similar in style many of them and they're kind of grinded out low offense you know except for Haskin and obviously low offensive defenseman just move the puck up ice and don't make mistakes I think it's

going to be more just technical when I look at the the Finland group on the blue line that's sort of how I view them and it's pretty interchangeable parts in my opinion yeah i looked at to me it was was it mata or valimaki as the the seventh defenseman i wanted to put hockinpah in there for sure they do have some pretty good size on their their blue line when you look from from top to bottom you know assuming it's going to be some sort of combination of what we're looking at here but uh that was just kind of the debate for me is it Valimacki or is it Mata I ultimately went with with Mata you know a little bit more experience but um either way it's not going to be a huge argument I think one way over the other yeah and Hockenpah's barely played I know he's back

now but he's just it was one of those things where I'd like a little bit more background not background but you know you want to make sure he's healthy and ready to put in a proper minutes. That's all. Fair enough. In goal, nothing controversial here. UC Saros already named. We all agreed that the other two selections would and should be Kevin Lankanen and Ukopeka Lukanen. The only other guy I could really think about was Corpus Salo, but I'm not sure anybody is picking a fight over that. Okay. Let's move on to Team Sweden. Okay. All right.

Four words. Three of them already named, Philip Forsberg, William Nylander, and Mika Zibanejad. We had eight consensus picks that we all agreed on. Michael Backlund, Jesper Bratt, Leo Carlson, Joel Eriksson-Eck, William Carlson, Adrian Kempe, Elias Pettersson, and Lucas Raymond. Here's where we disagreed a little bit both kyle and i had

william zetterland both dave and i baby and zederland what did i say william what am i an idiot okay hold on excuse me both i don't even know the guy's name. Leave that in. William Eklund, Fabian Zetterlund. Don't worry, I have that one. Your Prague buddies. Yes. Both Kyle and I had Fabian Zetterlund.

Both Dave and I had Elias Lindholm. He hasn't had a great season, but I think they're going to put him on the team. Kyle had Ricard Raquel, and Dave, you had William Eklund. Now, guys that none of us included, Victor Arvidson, Nils Hoaglander, who's had a rough year, and Gustav Nyquist. Like, I didn't think there was any chance at the beginning of the year I wouldn't have had Nyquist on the team, but it hasn't gone well for him or the Predators. Gentlemen, Dave, you first. Well, my big rationale with Eklund was it's not just this tournament. It's the next tournament coming up, the one the players are really eyeballing,

which is the Olympics in 2026. You want to have some youth. And I struggled with this. I watched William Eklund a bit because I've been watching the Sharks a little bit for a number of reasons. He's a good player. And he is a good player. And he has good offensive talent.

And quite frankly, he fits in nicely. I'd love to see him playing with better players. You know, he's on the Sharks and they have obviously Celebrini and they have a couple other good players. But essentially, he has to drive a line often. He has to be a catalyst. I'd like to see this guy, you know, seventh overall pick a few years ago, very slick with the puck. And I think this tournament could serve him well. This could actually be a coming out party for William Eklund. So that was my thought process there. I agree with you on Lindholm. It hasn't been a great great year but we know he's the kind of selkie type candidate generally I agree this could be very important when it comes to takeaways face-offs penalty killing he's very versatile and I think that'll serve Sweden really well yeah Kyle I like I like your by the way Dave I do like Eklund as a pick like I think that he's not undeserving of being there I'd be curious to see like one of the things is

like Kyle and I both took Zetterlund. I really like his game. I've watched him a lot this year and I think those young Sharks players are as they get better especially I think they're going to be a big part of Sweden's team. I just don't know you can take both of them. I'm with you on Lindholm. I think he's going to be there despite it. And Kyle, I actually do like your Raquel pick because he can play multiple wings, right? But someone here is going to get squeezed off this team. Yeah, like they've got a

good selection of forwards, which is a good problem to have. And that's where a lot of my debate was like, and I'm with you, it was Eklund or Zetel and probably one or the other, and not just because they play on the same NHL team in San Jose. And yeah, I guess it's just been, I don't know if it's a recency bias thing with Lindholm for me,

but because it was a bit of a slow start when he got to Vancouver, I know he ended up having an okay playoff, but then a slow start in Boston. I ultimately went away there, and maybe that was the wrong move because of the overall body of work. But I like what Raquel has done in a tough situation there in Pittsburgh. And as you mentioned, there's some flexibility there to be able to move him around. But I think you've got some good checking centers there with Eric Sinek and Michael Backlund. You've got Zibanejad that can play power play and penalty kill.

So that's ultimately, I think, why I left Lindholm off my forward list. OK, defense. This is a good one. OK, so three already named Gustav Forsling, Victor Hedman, and Eric Carlson. We had three consensus picks, Rasmus Andersen, Rasmus Dahlin, and Matthias Ekholm. All three of us had those three players. Then all three of us had a different seventh defenseman. Kyle had the currently injured Hampus Lindholm. Dave had Jonas Brodine and I have Oliver Ekman-Larsen and I'm going with Ekman-Larsen because he won

a Stanley Cup last year. Like Team Sweden wasn't always crazy about Ekman Larsson. You'll remember they've left him off a couple of teams, but he won a Stanley Cup last year. He's a new man. It's like he's been freed and he's come up to Toronto in a spotlight and he's played extremely well. I'll tell you this. If I hadn't picked Ekman Larsson, I was probably going to pick Adam Larson.

He was going to be my guy. But I just think the last year in Oliver Ekman Larson's life, he's on Team Sweden. He's there. Yeah, I mean, listen, you made a compelling case there. My case for Brodine is he plays strong minutes on a team that's been fantastic. He's completely responsible. He's playing 22 minutes a game. This is a guy who's quietly just been in the league for

10 plus years and just going about his business, right? And which is kind of when you look at the Swedish defense, but a lot of them, that's what you could say about them. There's just responsible, strong, physical puck moving defenseman, and he fits the mold perfectly. He's played for Sweden at the World Cup. He's played for Sweden at the World Cup. He's played for them in a number of other opportunities, world championships. So to me, it's just, it seems like the perfect natural fit. So Brodian was my guy.

And I just thought when healthy, and I'm projecting that he will be in a much better spot come February, where he had a bit of a lead up time before the tournament begins. He is a heck of a puck mover. He can log big minutes and can be really effective at moving the play up ice. Now, I know they've got other players on their defense that have the ability to do that as well. I wonder what kind of game Eric Carlson is going to have

once that tournament gets going. And for Lindholm, I just thought because of all those things, and he can play a mean game as well as Boston likes to play when they're at their best. That's why I was leaning his way in this case. Kyle, by the way, Dave, is team hospital. He's not the first guy he picked that is out for a long time. Evidently, if you're like only 3% healthy,

Kyle doesn't see a problem with you on one of these teams. I'm a believer. I like to empower people. Guys, it's funny you brought up Eric Carlson because this made a lot of news back across the Atlantic in Sweden when Johan Garpenloth, you know, basically came out and said that Carlson shouldn't even be on the team. I'm wondering what role he is going to have

because they have such a solid blue line there. When you look at Hedman, Forsling, Dahlin, Rasmus Andersen's been great, Ekholm. I do wonder if Carlson, if he's not going to be manning the power play, if he's going to have a much more limited role. I think that's one of the big storylines we're going to see develop here.

I could see a situation where maybe he starts having to play his way onto the group. I could see that being possible. We'll see. Goalie's not a big deal. We all picked the same three guys, Eric Gustafson, Jacob Markstrom, and Linus Allmark. I think the only other name there was Sammy Erson,

but those three are all deserving. No arguments. Okay, Team USA. This was the team where we had the least agreement among forwards. So the three are already named. They are Jack Eichel, Austin Matthews, and Matthew Kachuk. We all agreed on the following six players. Matt Boldy, who Dave named Boldly, as in boldly gone where no one has gone before. Kyle Connor, Jake Gensel, Jack Hughes, JT Miller, and Brady Kachuk. Now here are the differences. Four forwards. Kyle and I agreed on three of them. Chris Kreider, Dylan Larkin, and Vincent Trocek, who I know has not had a great year, but I still think could be on this team. Kyle and Dave both agreed on Jason Robertson. Dave and I both agreed on Tage Thompson, who I think is a lock. Kyle, I think you're nuts that you don't have him on your team and Dave Dave had two unique players Brock Nelson and Alex Tuck

not named by anybody Brock Besser Cole Caulfield Clayton Keller among others Dave you first you're the guest well listen I would have no issue with any of the forwards you named being on there. That's my Switzerland answer. But I think if you dig a little bit deeper, Brock Nelson, first of all, people don't recognize he's a bigger player. He's a great player. He's a great player. But he's under the radar. He has back to back to back 30 plus goal seasons.

He's an eight time 20 goal scorer. He has incredible handsto-back-to-back 30-plus goal seasons. He's an eight-time 20-goal scorer. He has incredible hands around the net. He kills penalties. He does basically everything. And Tuck was another. I looked at the same thing with Tuck. Tuck's killing penalties. He's up near the league lead, I believe, in actual shorthanded goals this year.

He can do so much. Another big forward, 6'4", 220 pounds, with a lot of offensive ability. And he could be a guy who could just grind it out. It's going to get pretty dirty in these games. When you just talked about the blue lines on Finland and Sweden, we know what the Canadian blue line is going to be like. I think you're going to need those types of players.

And that probably worked a little bit against Cole Caulfield. It worked a little bit against Brock Besser, who's just coming back from a head injury. So, you know, for me, this became clear. I hope Brock Nelson's given strong consideration. I definitely think Tate Thompson's going to be there, as you mentioned. I think Jason Robertson should be there and will be there. And I'd like to think Alex Tuck is getting a good, strong look.

Kyle? All good names, David. I'm going to be honest. When I submitted my roster and I knowingly left Clayton Keller off, I thought I was going to hear it from you guys because I thought for sure at least one of you would have had him on there because I really wrestled with that name. And so I'm a little bit surprised that none of us had him there.

How did you not have Tage Thompson on there? Elliot, this is a pretty deep forward lineup. The reason why I took Robertson over him is I looked at just the body of work. I know Thompson is a scorer. Guess what? United States have a lot of scorers. And the puck, there's only one of it one of them out there and I look at what Robertson's done in the playoffs hasn't been a great start to the season for him I understand

that but uh that's why I lean to the uh the elder Robertson brother as uh I kind of had him as my 13th forward as I was making my decisions yeah I think Tate Thompson's gonna be there um the guy I really wrestled the most with Kyle is one that you and I agreed on, and that was Vincent Trocek. It's just another one of those Rangers that has not played very well, right? And I think he is in danger of playing himself off the team. But the way he played last year in the playoffs, and I really do want to see that pimpin' suit at the Four Nations.

So I put Trochek on my team I that that is the one I'm most nervous about the one I most went on the limb with Dave what would Trochek I mean listen if Trochek's on personally he's incredibly well liked right everywhere he's played he seems to be one of those leaders and I'm not saying you pick a guy because he's a rah-rah guy but you got to, not everyone's going to be playing first line center and first power play. You need guys who are ready to go into different roles. And Trochek, I think, would be very amenable to whatever role they found for him on Team USA. So I do think the chemistry part is a big issue in a small tournament like this or a short tournament like this.

So, again, I have no issue at all. I picked guys just on i i think a guy like alex tuck you can slot him in and i just looked him up i really want to rip you but i think it's a great pick i i really do i think tuck is a great and i do think size it's funny i had clayton keller and i took him off and it's not that he's so small or anything but i just sort of said if i could get a guy who can slot in and play a specific role and also has size, knowing that that's going to be a key thing. Again, when you look at the blue lines that are going to be out there for those other three teams facing the US, these are big, strong, mobile, fierce defensemen. And I just want to have guys who can fight through that

because space is going to be at a premium. So I don't think there's any wrong answers. I'm fascinated. I am. I'm fascinated. I am glad I'm not Bill Guerin because these are the types of decisions I would not want to have to make. I thought it was interesting how all three of us picked Matt Boldy. It just shows how far he's come as a player. I didn't know that we would all do it, but we all did. Okay, on defense, already named are Adam Fox, Quinn Hughes,

and Charlie McAvoy. defense already named are Adam Fox, Quinn Hughes, and Charlie McAvoy. We had three consensus picks, John Carlson, Jacob Slavin, and Zach Wierenski. I don't know that that would have been the case at the beginning of the year, but Wierenski, who had a Gordie Howe hat trick the other night, we all agree, has played himself onto the team. Now, uh dave put on his list farber i'm thinking he's not talking about hall of fame reporter michael farber he's actually talking about brock faber so i'm with you i picked brock faber kyle you took ryan mcdonough um i guess because we interviewed him last week no just kidding mcdonough is a great player the the guy who got no votes who surprised me a lot actually was noah hannifin but there's some other guys brett pesci neil pionk and jake sanderson

hannifin was the one i thought he'd be on one at least one of our ballots oh i wrestled with it so again the reason why i went mcdonough and i knew it would not be maybe conventional wisdom there's nothing wrong with that he's a hell of a player that's simply why i did it i we and it's not just because we interviewed him but you know how willing he is to put his body on the line because you don't need another guy to run a power play or to be a puck distributor they have plenty of those on their blue line as you have said Elliot you think the United States could have the deepest lineup going into this tournament and it's a very good point so I thought even if you have him as a seventh defenseman in case you need or you need a bit of a different feel on the back end for one

game depending on what the matchup is i thought mcdonough could be the perfect option to fill that type of role brock faber mr dave yeah listen faber i don't i didn't put him down as my seventh defenseman he's a top six defenseman to me i i don't see how he's not i mean i only i only put him as seven because we didn't have a consensus on him. That's why. But right. But my point is, he wasn't he wasn't the guy I struggled with at the end figuring out who would be the last defenseman added to me. He was a lock in there. And by the way, I just want to on an aside, I'm really glad all three of us had John Carlson because I've been talking about Carlson with other people and they're like, oh, no, I

don't see him on the team. I think John Carlson is having a fantastic year, a fantastic career, and I think he'll be sort of that elder statesman on the blue line for this American team. He's putting together a Hall of Fame career. But Faber, I love his game, his skating, his ability, his mobility, his offensive upside. He's a minute muncher, and he does it all.

I just think he's 22 years of age, right? He's the future. When you think about this US blue line, when you think about Quinn Hughes and Faber, those are the guys I see sort of seven years from now being the pillars on this US defense. So that was unquestionable to me. I'd be really shocked if Faber doesn't find his way onto this team. See, I'm noticing a trend with Dave, Kyle, and that is number one, that he likes Minnesota because he picked Brodane, he picked Faber, which is nothing wrong with that. But number two, not only is he trying to win the Four Nations tournament, but he's already trying to win next year's Olympics by putting Eklund and Faber on these teams so we're already we're so we know that the first wednesday we work after the four nations we're going to be doing next year's olympic lineup

predictions with david we're getting there already well you know it's fine i know you're joking but i do believe no i'm half joking actually it's probably true yeah i mean they are they are done crew means the wrong word but i think they want some guys looking ahead, knowing you're going to have two international best-on-best tournaments back-to-back within 12 months, and you want to have a couple guys that are familiar with everything. And I think this is one great way to acclimate them to that. All right, goalies, two consensus picks.

Everybody agreed, not surprisingly, on Connor Hellebuck and Jake Ottinger Kyle and I agreed on Jeremy Swayman and Dave I knew you were gonna do this and while I'd love to make fun of you I don't think it's a terrible idea at all your third was Anthony Stolarz. Ah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, listen, it's a small – well, okay. He's a Stanley Cup champion when I say it's a small resume. I mean, he hasn't been a number one goalie essentially until this year, and he certainly has wrestled away that position.

He's been rock solid. He seems completely unflappable, right? A goaltender walking into the Toronto market isn't the easiest thing. He's completely unfazed. He has incredible size. You know, this isn't necessarily Stolarz just playing his way on. And I like Jeremy Swayman. I think he's a solid guy and I think he's a very good goaltender. But, you know, that contract situation at the top of the year, he's gotten off to a pretty slow start. In a way, you know, we're going with the hot hand right now. It being, you know, the week before they make this pick, the hot hand right now is Anthony Stolarz compared to Jeremy Swayman. Much as anything, it goes into that.

If the U.S. gets to their third goaltender, if any team gets to their third goaltender, that's not a good sign. So it's not even like I'm expecting them to necessarily play. I got to tell you, I disagree with this. I keep hearing people saying this. I disagree with this. And I'll tell you why. Number one, you know, the third goaltenders here should be good goalies.

There's too much talent for them not to be good goalies. And secondly, like, I don't think the third goalie should be a participation trophy. I think the third goalie should be there on merit. And if a nightmare scenario happens and you lose two goalies, you should be able to have somebody in there who can win games. And the thing is, and this is why I understand your decision on Stollers, Stollers has proven this year, if the team plays well in front of him, he can win games.

So I don't think Stollers is a participation trophy. I think if he gets named to this team, then if it comes down to him, that team is so good in front of him that they should be able to win games. You know, the thing here for me, it's purely, to me, it's purely, like Swayman overall career deserves his spot on this team. Swayman this season, he wasn't ready to start the year and it's been a real battle. If you're putting Swayman off this team right now, it's simply because of this season and not overall. If you're putting Stollers on this team right now,

it's not overall. It's the way he's played the last year and a half. I can see the case either way. I would put Swayman on because I think he's a big part of your future but I don't think Stoller's is a participation trophy I think if he's on there you still think you can win with him based on the way he's played in Toronto and in Florida yeah listen no argument here and I didn't I wasn't trying to put it out no I think you were insulting him and I felt the need to defend him I insulted him so much I insulted him so much I put him on the team and you left him off the team that's right that's right no I listen Stolarz has been great but I'll still stand by what I'm saying if if a goalie is earmarked as the clear number three it barring something very unforeseen where two guys get injured and somehow they still can find their way through the tournament,

I feel it's someone who also will be agreeable to not being the number one. And we've seen that repeatedly. When Canada's won gold medals, they've had Hall of Fame goaltenders sitting there cheering on the team and not just participating but being there just in case they get down that depth. But those are also longer tournaments. There's only three games guaranteed. The maximum you're going to play is four games here.

So if you're on to your third goalie, then something legitimately unexpected has happened. And one other thing with Stolarz, guys, he's competed with the U.S. before, world championships, world juniors, et cetera. So he's put on the red, white, and blue before, and I know they do like to reward guys for their participation

in earlier events as well. All right. You guys ready for the Canadians? Oh, yeah. Okay. Team Canada, five forwards already named. Sidney Crosby, Nathan McKinnon, Brad Marchand, Connor McDavid, Braden Point.

Five consensus picks between the three of us. Anthony Cirelli, Mitch Marner, Sam Reinhart, Mark Shifley, Mark Stone. Here's the splits. Kyle and Dave, Zach Hyman, Dave and I, Tom Wilson, Kyle, Travis Konechny, Dave, Matt Duchesne, myself, Brandon Hagel. No votes. Barzel, Lafreniere, Suzuki, Verhege, Bedard, and you guys now know my feelings on Celebrini that maybe he shouldn't necessarily be on the team, but I think there should be a conversation about him. Dave, where do you want to start?

Well, I guess I'll start with what will probably be remembered as the most controversial or insane pick for some fans, and that was Matt Duchesne. And all I'll say about Duchesne is he's having a great year. He's used to playing with elite players. His resume speaks for itself. He hasn't slowed down. He's a great skater, a 10 time, 20 goal scorer. And quite frankly, he's been a good luck charm every time he's put on the red and white in

Canada, gold at the Olympics, two time world champion, gold at the world cup gold at the Olympics, two-time world champion, gold at the World Cup, gold at the under-18s. He's been, you know, for his whole entire career since he was a teenager, he's been putting on the red and white and they've been winning gold. And he's been part of that. He can play power play if they need him there. They probably wouldn't. They could use him on the shorthand. He could be in a checking line. When I look at Tom Wilson and Sam Bennett and Matthew Shane as a possible fourth line,

tenacious forward check. He could do a lot of different things. He still has those incredible hands. That would be my case for Matthew Shane. But again, I didn't realize a rabbit's foot was part of the criteria for picking someone. The only thing I'll say, though, guys, is I mentioned a bunch of great, you guys mentioned a bunch of great players and I'd love to see Zach Hyman on this team. It's unfortunate. It's been a tough time getting the puck into the net for him this year.

And then now there's the injury. So that, that actually tipped the scales a little. I was just like, well, is he a hundred percent healthy? Is he going to be a hundred percent healthy? So that's was my question mark with Zach Hyman, but I certainly would have no problem at all with Zach Hyman on this team and he would be a perfect representative of Canada. No, let me just say this after I made fun of Dave, I did hear that Duchesne was very much in consideration. So while it may seem an off the radar pick because not a lot of people are talking about it I don't think what you're suggesting is impossible for all the reasons you just considered except I don't think Don Sweeney is picking anyone based on a rabbit's foot um I just want to say this about

Brandon Hagel so last year when we first did this at the all-star break I put Brandon Hagel. So last year when we first did this at the All-Star break, I put Brandon Hagel on my team and the board wasn't even off the screen yet when Dave was texting me saying, what an awful pick. So I have not forgotten and I am praying that Hagel makes this team because Dave didn't even wait three seconds last year to rip me for this pick, Kyle. Jeez, so you want this team selected just to help your own ego here. Yes, yes, that's what I want. To satisfy your own ego and revenge. I think it's really interesting that all three of us had Sorelli on there

because we know how much the coach likes him. And like I said, I agree with both you guys. The coach likes him, The coach trusts him. And he's also a rabbit's foot. He's a winner everywhere he's gone. Hagel, I think it's similar. I think the coach is going to get a couple of picks, and I see Sorelli and Hagel as being those picks.

So great point. I was just going to say, so my feel for why I went with a guy like Ken Ekne is because he plays a mean game he is a hell of a penalty killer and him and sam reinhardt over the last couple of years have done so much damage shorthanded that was an asset for me because you know your set power play wise he can give you good minutes and i i wrestled with the the tom wilson thing i mean elliot you brought it up on the pod a number of weeks ago here now and as i've kind of let that sink in and the idea of of wanting to have an answer for some of the the bigger bodies and the physical

bodies in some of the other countries i think a player like him like a sam bennett if you insert a zach hyman into the lineup, that can help too. And the other reason why I leaned Hyman ultimately in the end, I wrestled with it, but, you know, it just is a, maybe you find a role for him lower in the lineup and he fits there and it all works out great. But also too, if there's a little bit of trouble at the top early on

and you want to have, you know, a little bit of trouble at the top early on and you want to have a certain element of comfort next to McDavid, you can put him there as well in a pinch. So that was what kind of had me leaning Hyman's way when I submitted my final list. It was tough for me to leave out Bennett. I got to tell you, it was tough. I think there's a lot of momentum on Konechny. Now, here's my question, Dave.

Of the guys who aren't there, Barzell, Lafreniere, Suzuki, Verhege, Bedard, Celebrini, you name it, anyone else, who was the hardest of that group for you not to include? Okay. Well, first I'd like to quickly rebut on the Brandon Hagel. When you made the pick a year ago, all those guys who were just left off the team, Barz suzuki for haggie bedard exactly etc i had listed above hagel a year ago so i want to give some credit to hagel don't back down hold on hold on hagel's very very good and i obviously if he makes the team and i i wouldn't be shocked if he does i think he would represent the team well and i think he would have a great role and i think he could be part of a championship team so i just want to make that clear so that

i'm not being misrepresented here but last year you were just ahead of the curve and i should give you credit for that as far as the guys who didn't make the team the two guys that weren't on my list like i said i struggled with zach hyman the other one um that none of us had uh lafreniere yeah i you agree. That was a tough one. Barzell and Lafreniere. That was tough. That's the one. And listen, you made the point about Celebrini.

And if he is named and he is ultimately the 13th guy sort of there to see and to watch and to maybe participate a little bit, I have no problem with that. I hate to say this because Connor Bedard is one of my favorite guys in the league to watch, but he's been in so incredibly frustrated. I would love to see him play with this elite group though. That is the thing because it would be such a difference. He's been on an Island and you could see the frustration and he, you know, quite frankly, he just, he's not playing with a bunch of star players and it's probably been very difficult for him. I'd love to see him playing with a bunch of star players and it's probably been very difficult for him i'd love

to see him playing with this elite group unfortunately it's been such a struggle for him i think he's maybe worked his way a little bit off the team and maybe he'll maybe he'll be at it i don't know but it's not as much of a lock when we started this season guys a lot of those guys you just listed off elliot i was like oh yeah they're on they're on they're on with you the other other guys other guys like hagel duchesne etc have come up and now it's like it seems like they, they're on. They're on. I'm with you. Other guys like Hagel, Duchesne, et cetera, have come up, and now it seems like they're in the driver's seat. All right, defense. One named Kel McCarr.

There are five consensus picks we all had. Josh Morrissey, Alex Petrangelo, Shea Theodore, Devon Taves, and we all had Mackenzie Wieger on the team. Now here come the extras. Captain Infirmary picked Drew Doughty. Dave picked Brandon Montour and I picked Colton Pareko. picked Colton Pareko. No votes. Bouchard, Dobson, Ekblad, Hamilton, Morgan Riley, who I've heard that John Cooper's a big fan of, and Travis Sanheim, who's really come hard this year. But Kyle, let's go with you first. Dowdy, I don't know that he's going to play before January. Are you just going with he's on it? Now, the one thing I do agree with you, Kyle, is if he was healthy,

he's a no-doubt slam-dunk pick. And if he would have been back already, he was a no-doubt slam-dunk pick. Yeah, so that's why I was going a bit on a limb with this one. But when we were out there in in la back in september elliott like even after the injury happened like we were hearing that he was still very much part of the conversation for team canada at that time so i've always kept that in the back of my mind and yeah i you don't know you don't know when he gets back healthy like where's the the state of his game gonna be and now you're only looking at a month plus of lead up time for him.

But I thought, you know, if there's any chance and I believe that there could be that he could get up to speed and time. That's a body that you want around for a whole host of reasons. And that's why I could not I could not leave his his name off. I wrestled with Ekblad. I wrestled with Eckblad. I wrestled with a couple of others, but I couldn't go away from keeping Drew Doughty on my list. Like I said, if he's healthy, he's there. Dave, I like your pick.

I like Montour. Why him? You know what's funny? It's like he totally flies under the radar. All he does, he's been playing, you know, 23 minutes a game. In fact, you know, close to 24 minutes a game. He wins a Stanley Cup and all the accolades, of course, went to Ackblad, Forsling, and deservedly so.

But he was playing 26 minutes a game in the playoffs two years ago when they got to the final. Think about that. He averaged 26 plus minutes. He goes out to Seattle, sleepy Seattle, where people don't really pay attention to what's going on. And he's been the number one guy in a complete stud. And what else could he do? Right? He's won a cup. He's played 80 plus playoff games, right? This guy is not, the moment's not too big for him. A great

guy, great character guy, gets on with everyone, great chemistry guy, and tough as nails. He fits every bit of the criteria and the coveted right-handed shot too. So it just makes sense to me. And again, I wrestled a little bit with Dougie Hamilton, and obviously Morgan Rielly's put together an incredible resume. But to me, Montour sort of checked all the boxes. And I think the Stanley Cup championship a year ago puts him over the top. Yeah, I like Montour. I went with Colton Pareko.

And one of the reasons is another right hand shot, big guy, and also intimately familiar with the general manager of the overall program. And Pareko's played pretty well this year. The Blues have been up and down as a group, although're hot lately but Pareko's been good I'm I'm going with Pareko I think that's going to be the guy although this was a tough tough decision okay so so I'm gonna ask you I gotta really quickly ask you is the criteria who we think should be there is the criteria who we think will be there you did you asked me this the other day besides what does it matter we're just debating like well you just made the point that pareko is very friendly with doug armstrong obviously well the thing is but the thing is like i don't that's i don't think he's only making it

because he's got a relationship with doug armstrong I think that's crazy I don't think you'd be selfish that way but I think when all things are equal and you're picking between like six guys I do think absolutely a familiarity with someone and a comfort level with someone and a guy who won us it was a big part of your Stanley Cup win I do think that matters I think yeah of course okay it's like you only got in the business dave because you knew someone so that's like the way it works okay all right um all right you guys ready for this craziness like i started howling when i saw this so canada So Canada named no goalies. Okay. Not only did we have no consensus picks, but I didn't even think this was possible.

Kyle and Dave picked six completely different goalies. They didn't have the same guy on their list. So Kyle had Jordan Bennington, Mark Fleury and Stuart Skinner Dave had Aiden Hill Cam Talbot and Logan Thompson and I just want to say I always like bringing up Kevin bx's favorite insult with Dave whenever Cam Talbot gets mentioned. First of all, Cam Talbot played very well this year. But secondly, Kevin says that Cam Talbot talked to Dave once and was very nice to him. So now Dave is his backer forever. Yeah, that's right.

And my list, I had one of Kyle's. I had Jordan Bennington and I had two of Dave's. I had Aiden Hill and Logan Thompson so no Sam Montembeau but I mean we picked six different goalies you can't accuse us of not casting a wide net Kyle justify your list okay Bennington simply the track record the overall body of work, how he has performed when the lights are brightest. I know 2019 was over five years ago now, but I believe he is a capable option in this case. Stuart Skinner. I've let it be known in the past, I am a Skinner believer. And here's the thing. If Edmonton, you can do the what if game all day long here. I don't intend to get into that.

If Edmonton, you can do the what if game all day long here. I don't intend to get into that. If Edmonton had won game seven, three to two last year, is Skinner all of a sudden a lock for this team? Yes, probably. It's a lot different. Yes. So that's the margin. But I am a Skinner believer.

I know he's had some ups and downs a couple of times. a Skinner believer. I know he's had some ups and downs a couple of times. I think he could be a difference maker in a situation like this. And Marc-Andre Fleury, I knew this was going to be, I may be out on my own little island here with that. So when there was that gathering of elite players in Vail, Colorado in September, you know who was also there? Marc-Andre Fleury. And when guys wanted to stay out on the ice for another two hours and shoot pucks, he stood in the net and battled with all of them. I think his personality, his resume,

his overall demeanor, and I'm not doing the whole this is a participation thing because you're a good guy, you get to come play for Team Canada. But I think there's so many things that he brings beyond his ability to stop the puck that given that this is going to be the most inexperienced area

of Canada's roster, I think he could be, in a lot of ways, a really great influence to that room and that goalie fraternity for those two weeks dave call me crazy no i i'm not i'm not calling you crazy can i change my pick to flurry because that was a pretty compelling closing argument no no you can't you're i uh the assignment was due three hours ago you cannot change it after it's in i uh all those things that kyle just said though i agree with and when it goes back to that third goaltender if they're going to be the consummate team guide there is no better teammate in the league from what i

understand than mark andre flurry so obviously if he was there in this his final year, I would have no issue at all. My argument for Cam Talbot is that he spoke to me once. I knew that BXL was right about that. Listen, Cam Talbot has the highest save percentage of any Canadian goaltender this year. He's played very well people he's sneakily about to make his 500th start guys which as kelly rudy you know says is the is the silver stick for goaltenders right he has 250 plus wins like this is a guy who's played a lot of hockey meaningful hockey's had to grind it out his whole life undrafted right it was a pretty securitist route to the national hockey league

and when he has stress for canada what did he do he won gold at the at the world championships including four shutouts so the one time he's put on the suit for canada he was pretty damn good listen i i've i had no issue if it's talbot i had no issue in fact i'd like it if it's talbot i like if it's flurry i have no issue with either of them. And I went with Hill and Thompson. They played as a duo together. I think there's some value in that. They won a championship together. They're familiar with one grouping of defensemen

and Pietrangelo and Theodore. I think when the short tournaments happen, the chemistry issue is an important issue and how they communicate on the ice and all that sort of stuff. So I just looked at it. I put it into those simple terms. But I, you know, and I, Elliot, you're going to probably make a case for Bennington. And I don't think there's a, you know, it's not hard to make a case for Bennington. He hasn't had a great year,

but I know he's a gamer and if he ends up being the guy for Canada, so be it. Yeah. I I'm with you on Hill and Thompson. I liked the fact that they were a team together I agree with you I also think both of those guys have earned it this year with their play Hill has been very good and Logan Thompson I'm really impressed with Thompson in the sense that he basically said I want more of an opportunity and he ran with it like he hasn't fumbled with it he's went out and done a great job.

So to me, Hill and Thompson both deserve their spots on the team. They've been two of Canada's best goalies this year. I agree with you on Calvert's numbers being excellent, but he's been a bit more up and down. You know, the Skinner one, I would have thought at the beginning of the year there was no chance I wouldn't have had Skinner on this team. No chance. But it's been a weird year, and I could just see Canada going elsewhere.

So would it surprise me if Skinner was on? No, but I'm nowhere near as confident as I was at the beginning of the season. All right. Who wins? Dave? Canada. I think Canada, their depth of forwards, their ability to defend.

These aren't the flashiest defensemen. You know, Makar, obviously, and Morrissey have such great offensive upside, but that's not what it's about. They can defend incredibly well great and I forwards like their forwards are good defenders yeah they have guys who can grind it out and I love you know well let's see what the fourth line looks like but I love the idea of having guys like Bennett like Tom Wilson like connecting etc I Sorelli whoever it ends up being uh who could

just grind the other team and be an identity line. I'm going to go with Canada until I'm proven wrong because when we've had best on best in the last 15 years, Canada's been the best team. Kyle? And what's the constant in all of that, David? Sidney Crosby has been part of it, whether it was the two Olympics, the World Cup of Hockey, the one year, I believe, 2015,

when he went over to the Worlds after a quick exit in the playoffs. They won gold then, too. He's part of this group. The Canadians have a way of coming together with a lot of big personalities in a short period of time and making it work. And until they fail to do that, my money's on the red and white. Yeah, you know, I got gotta be the party pooper on this one I just think I'm concerned about Canada and goal I am I don't think the goalie needs to be a world beater I think they need to be a stabilizer that the US in goal I think because of the edge they have there I've said this since the beginning of the year I think they've got to be considered the team to beat I'm you know I would be very curious to see about if it is Canada-USA,

what that crowd is going to look like in Boston for the final. Is it going to be a USA crowd? Or are all the Canadians going to be running down there to buy tickets and make it a pro-Canadian crowd? Be like Salt Lake City. I can hear the disrespect being felt in Scandinavia. Dave, thanks for joining us, bud. Your picks were terrible, but it was a fun segment.

Yeah, thank you for having me, guys. I can't wait. I'm excited for it. I think it's actually going to be a lot of fun, and I look forward to working with you guys there. David, great to have you. Thank you for your consistent non-listenership. You're nothing if not consistent. That'll do it for this lengthy edition of 32 Thoughts, the podcast,

but we hope you enjoyed the debate and would love to know your thoughts as well, and we know you will let us know your thoughts as you always do. That'll do it for this edition. Have yourselves a great weekend and we'll talk to you again on Monday.