32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Everything But The Waffles

Episode Date: October 24, 2022

Vancouver is struggling! Jeff and Elliotte kick off the podcast with an intense conversation about the Vancouver Canucks (3:40) and some of the comments made by Jim Rutherford post-game on After Hours.They also dive into a few other stories from around the league including Ethan Bear (41:50), Rasmus Dahlin (43:45), the NHL in Australia (45:30), Luke Prokop playing his first professional game (48:45), Elliotte provides a quick thought on the salary cap (47:40) and they take you questions and a voicemail (49:15).The guys also play a bit of a game called “are you a believer?” as they look at some of the teams that have surprised them early in the season (Buffalo - 31:00, Chicago - 32:45, Detroit - 34:10, Ottawa - 37:00, New Jersey - 37:45, Philadelphia - 39:20).Check out the 32 Thoughts merchandise hereMusic Outro: The Mystery Lights - I’m So TiredListen to the full song hereThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: Bally Sports Detroit, NBC Sports Philadelphia, Sportsnet and WXYT-FMThe views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Gentlemen, just heard Jeffy chirp you by saying that you're licking the stamp and mailing it in, and how many games are we into this season? I've been too busy to do the hockey Twitter, but this is me trying to explain why someone's missing an opportunity here with this Wi-Fi nickname. nickname. From Costco to the Fenter Bell. Answering the bell. None other than Montreal's favorite floor check guy, back check guy,

paycheck guy. Gentlemen, go Hebs go. Okay, so Elliot, that was a caller on the 32 Thoughts line. An anonymous caller just left that? An anonymous caller, just a quick drive-by, a quick Montreal Canadiens fan who lives in Michigan wanted to do a quick little audio drive-by

and remind everybody of the greatness that is the cult hero in Montreal, Arbor Jack Eye. That's hilarious that somebody would just do that, just drop and leave it on the thought line. Hit and run, hit and line. Hit and run. Hit and run. Hit and run. Hit and run.

Back in the days of voicemail, when we all listened to it, there was a stretch there where when I worked at the score, every morning I would come to work and there would be a voicemail from one person either complaining or approving my story the night before, whatever I'd filed. And normally you could trace that kind of thing, But this person, as a matter of fact, at one time they said to me, I bet you've tried to trace my number and figure out who I am. And he said, but I am an expert on phone mail systems. You will never find my number. And it got to the point where I was looking forward to it, and then all of a sudden it stopped.

There should be a podcast about this that could solve the mystery. I don't know what happened to that person. Well, you know one of my favorite stories about voice messages is the NHL trade call. So after the NHL went through the Eric Lindros trade and tried to figure out whether he should go to the Philadelphia Flyers or the New York Rangers, they came up with this newest new system, which was the trade call. And the way it worked is each general manager had to call in, announce the trade, and if both sides matched, then we had a trade and the trade would go through. So that was a new way they were going to do it.

And apparently a lot of the general managers, when they were out Elliot and perhaps over refreshed, perhaps overly poured, as we like to say in the industry after a, a couple of drinks would, would call the trade call line and do Ron Caron impressions of trading everybody from the St. Louis Blues and the league had to call the GMs and say, guys, guys, guys, enough. Stop it now. No more phony St. Louis Blues, Ron Caron trades. Knock it off.

I'm surprised they needed alcohol to do that. I figured they would just do it on their own. No, but you talk about things that you would want to figure out, man, how much would you love to have heard some of those? Like, please tell me somewhere in the NHL, there are the recordings of these inebriated general managers impersonating Ron Caron, trading everyone off the blues roster. That would be awesome. That would be the best. That's a gold mine. Okay. Welcome to the podcast. How are you, by the way, Elliot? I seldom ask you that. I always assume you're fine. Are you fine?

I'm fine. Are you fine? I'm fine. I'm good. Big weekend of hockey and a lot to get to. And a lot of it is going to revolve around everybody's favorite topic, which is what's going on with the Vancouver Canucks. There is one podcast listener who complained to me last year about how much we talked about the Canucks. And I warned him, I said, we're going to have to talk about the Canucks on

Monday. And he said, oh great, I'll have to find another podcast to listen to this week. And I said, you are not allowed to do that. I'm sorry. We follow the drama. You follow the story, you follow the drama and it lands squarely in British Columbia. And a lot of it has now been advanced a little bit more by a couple of things. One, another loss, this one at home, to the Buffalo Sabres, who are just destroying Western Canada right now. And two, Jim Rutherford's appearance on After Hours. Before we get to Rutherford, your thoughts on the game itself on Saturday night. So what happened, Jeff, was I got intermissioned.

And when you get intermissioned, it's something that you say at the intermission that you think is smart at the time, but proceeds to then completely blow up and look terribly stupid in the next period. And so Jen Botterill ran a highlight pack of Canucks chances and underneath every chance the fans were going bananas, just wishing for a goal. And I said, I give the fans credit.

They're 0-5, they're losing to Buffalo, but they're trying to get involved in the game. If you watch that game, the introductions, the coaches and the players, they were nervous. You could see it. The coaches were nervous. They were going to get booed. The players were nervous. They were going to get booed. You could see it on their faces as they were being introduced before the game. But for the most part, the fans were, they were really good. They were encouraging. They cheered. And they were a lot of that way in the first two periods. And then after I said that, how encouraging they were, in the third period, we got the booing of Sweet Caroline.

We got the jerseys thrown on the ice. Jeff, it was everything but the waffles. And I was sitting there watching this and saying, boy, do I look stupid. That take went cold as quick as any take I've ever had. And I can't say I blame the fans. They gave up in the third period. I thought Boudreaux said it really well postgame.

They were in the game. It was two to one. And we had a bit of a debate on Boudreaux's mentally weak thing. I didn't see anything wrong with it. I didn't think he was ripping the team. I thought he answered it very softly, and he was just answering the question. I thought the whole reaction to it was overblown.

In the first period of the game, they dominated the first five minutes. They took a penalty. They gave up a goal, and you could see it. It's exactly what he was talking about. They totally sagged. goal and you could see it like it's exactly what he was talking about they totally sagged but anyway it was 2-1 after two and Buffalo destroyed them in the third period and so moments after having a goal disallowed the Sabres strike again anyway Victor Olofsson on the two-on-one scores his third of the year and it's's 3-1. On a 3-1 lead, and Zemkus Gergensens is going to score into an empty net.

Three and a half minutes left in this third period. That'll ice it. The Sabres go up 4-1, and a bad night. And I'm sure this is a situation now where both teams just want the clock to run fast and get out of this one. The result is decided, but here come the Sabres. They've got another one. Victor Olofsson left circle off the cycle, rips one past Thatcher Demko to add insult to injury. It's 5-1 Buffalo. When your fan base is on edge and you come out

in the third period like that, that is absolutely what you're going to get. And salt on the open wound for the Vancouver Canucks. They were doing it against a team that has just gone through a rebuild and is looking like a good team for the future. A long rebuild. Yes. And we'll get to Rutherford's comments in a couple of seconds here. So you mentioned a couple of the highlight items there.

And it's never going well when a jersey hits the ice. And we had Shannon Miller barking at each other going off the ice as well. That kind of stuff doesn't bother me. I actually think things like that are fine and probably go on a lot more than we believe. And I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. And we probably make too much out of it. I refuse to believe that with a group of, you know, very, you know, athletic and emotionally charged athletes, very competitive athletes.

You're going to have holding hands and kumbaya in the dressing room. I expect there to be arguments and fights and things like that, so that doesn't really bug me, but it became a thing. I just don't see it a whole lot. I guess one of the questions is now where do the Vancouver Canucks go? Before we get to Rutherford you know after that game and i thought boudreaux's comments were bang on as well where does vancouver go you know what jeff i think i can answer this question better if we use some of the audio okay so let's get to that

then first of all i want to i want to credit scott oak i thought scott excellent did an unbelievable job and i thought rather like ruther, and he said at the end, Rutherford could have walked away. He could have said, look, I'm not doing it. And I did appreciate that from a Sportsnet point of view that Rutherford sat in there and did it because you could tell by the look on his face he would have rather been anywhere but there. You know, there are plenty of general managers

and we know who they are, Elliot, who will only do interviews after a win. Yeah. Whether it's on radio or television, and we all sort of, you know, rather roll our eyes or laugh about it in the media, but those ones are pretty obvious. You know, the team's won three games,

and all of a sudden the general manager wants to talk, but on a five-game losing streak, too tied up, can't do the interview, apologies. Rain check rain check yes you have to give full credit yep there's your mother for what vancouver is going through is awful right now and jim showed up man like good on him jim motherford showed up to do the interview with scott oak and by the way before before we play the first cliff chap i believe that rutherford addressed the players on sunday that's rare so well it happened last year too stan smiel did it when they made the coaching and gm change on that same day stan smiel uh addressed the team and i believe it happened again on sunday and so

before we play the clip i think the first thing that you have to say is we're not going to have efforts where we look like we gave up anymore. That's the first thing you can do is say we're not giving up. So that's before we get to the bigger changes. Okay. And let's get to some actualities here from Rutherford. Beginning with the bad camp. We'll start there. beginning with the bad camp. We'll start there.

Now, I think everybody who listened to After Hours probably had one or two clips or one or two things that he said that really jumped out at you. Everybody would look at it differently. I know there were some people who were struck by the rebuild comment and we'll get to that.

That's a big one. I know some people were struck by rutherford saying he didn't know exactly what it said in bruce boudreaux's contract and we'll get to that but the thing that really struck me was and i know it struck some other people i talked to was when he talked about them having a bad camp we didn't have a very good camp and it's carried over into the season we've uh we are have a lot of bad habits and i i thought the last two road games we were starting to cut down on those and starting to trend in the right way but when you're losing you find ways to lose, and that's what we're doing. And what struck people about it was it's not something you like to admit.

Camps are supposed to be good. Camps are supposed to be it's a fresh start. Everybody shows up in a good mood. You're optimistic. You've had a good summer. Your business is taken care of. And if you have a bad camp, it's a horrible omen for A, how your summer was, B, how you prepared, and C, where you're going. And we've talked about, Jeff, that if you fire a coach four or five games into a season, it's a failure for your organization.

When you admit after camp that your camp was really bad, that's the kind of thing that other people would say is a failure in your organization. You never want to admit that. You never want to. And kudos to Rutherford for being honest. But I know people who saw that and they said, want to admit that. You never want to. And kudos to Rutherford for being honest. But I know people who saw that and they said, oh, that's a really bad one. And the last time I really remember anyone coming out this early and saying it was in Philadelphia when Peter

Laviolette was fired. I remember he was fired early into the season and Paul Holmgren came out and said, you know, we had a really terrible camp and it kind of made us aware that this had to happen. I just think that for a lot of people in the sport or a lot of people in sports, that is a five alarm bell. When you hear something like that, because like, for example, you know what someone said to me, you know, where you can say you had a bad camp when you have eric johnson who injures himself for st louis in the team golf tournament right before training camp like they said that's

when you can say you have a bad camp but when you don't have anything like that and you feel like you had a bad camp that's really really bad for your organization and a couple people said to me they bet it really would have hurt rutherford to admit that but when you're low you're low i always wonder you know what did these comments set up for like i'm i'm not 100 sure where i'm at now what we're going to talk about next maybe you know might wink at where we're at. When I heard Rutherford say that, I wondered, okay, what is that setting up for? Because Jim Rutherford has been around hockey, Elliot, forever. And I don't think that Jim Rutherford says anything frivolously. I don't think he just fires off.

I really don't. I always wonder, okay, Jim Rutherford is putting this out here. What is he setting up for? That's what I wonder. Because it could be a couple of things. One, it can be, and we're all looking at this and saying, okay, is he talking about Boudreaux here? Or could it be, is he saying we don't have enough quality hockey players yet?

Like, where is he going to point his finger at with this one composition or coaching we always have that debate i don't think it's composition i think that's about the way they're playing like when they traded jason dickinson one of the reasons they got riley stillman in that deal was well first of all chicago was a team that was willing to take the contract but they were looking for a player like stillman because they thought they got pushed around a lot. I know that's one thing that they were really unhappy with in the preseason is they got pushed around a lot. But I think that was directed at the players and the coach.

I do. That's what I think that is, that this team wasn't as ready to play from the drop of the puck as it should have been. That's what I interpret that as. The quote that stuck out to me was... We may very well be in a rebuild in the direction we're going, but ideally we'd like to transition this team on the fly.

The rebuild question, Elliot. That's a big one. There's a lot of ways to look at this there have been times in the last few years and Canucks fans know this where the idea of a rebuild has been suggested

Mike Gillis did it once Trevor Linden did it once Trevor Linden lost the power struggle with Jim Benning because he suggested a rebuild or they weren't as close as Benning thought. I'm not sure the exact term was rebuild. I've had it said to me that it was just that Benning thought they were closer than Linden did and Benning's vision won out. As a quick aside, why is everyone so scared to use that term? It's almost like stepping on the logo in the dressing room. Nobody wants to say rebuild.

No managers want to say rebuild. Rebuilds can be a number of different things. It doesn't have to look like tear it all down. There are ways to rebuild without taking everything down to the nuts and bolts. Here's what I think. The fans there clearly blame this on ownership. They say ownership doesn't want the rebuild. And I would agree that I think that's true.

Now, here's the question. Why? Rebuilds in the NHL, and a perfect example is the team that they played last night. Buffalo has been rebuilding for a decade it's actually been two rebuilds it's true right there was the eichel rebuild and now this post cycle rebuild and now this one is off to a good start it looks like it's working but we still have a long way to go like like here's the thing jeff how many teams in the NHL have rebuilt and won? Pittsburgh Penguins have.

It took a long time, but they bottomed out and won. Washington Capitals bottomed out and won. There are teams that have done it. Now, that's true, but- Chicago Blackhawks? Now, Chicago was kind of a weird situation because they were a completely dysfunctional franchise. Correct.

And then Bill Wurtz died, and all of a sudden, they became a model franchise. So it's a little bit different, I think. Pittsburgh won the ultimate lottery. The ultimate lottery, and it single-handedly changed their franchise. Washington, yes. Ovechkin, and I think Washington's a good comparison here for the reason I'm going to suggest in a second. Ovechkin changed their franchise, but remember,

they had to find the right coach that kind of put them off and who happens to be the guy in Vancouver that put them in the right direction. Even then, it didn't always go in a straight line. It increased the value of their franchise. The fans loved watching them play, but how long did it take until they really found success? Okay.

What about Colorado? What about Colorado? Just the last cup. And it was a trade. And how much pain did they have? Like Rutherford does have a point here. There are a lot of rebuilds in this league that take a long time and don't go anywhere. So, you know, I don't think he's completely wrong. However, there comes to be a time where

you have to understand and say what you have isn't working. And vancouver look at what you have up and down your roster horvat petterson miller hughes demko to start mckev besser garland kuzmenko pick which other players you want this team should be better than it is. And this goes beyond now one coach. This goes into two coaches. So are they upset with their structure? Yes. Does coaching usually take the blame for that structure? Yes.

But we're on to second coaches now, and it looks like pretty soon we're going to be three. You look at all that talent, Jeff, and you've got to be asking yourself, do we have the wrong mix? The one thing that I wondered about when Rutherford and Alvin took over was whose timeline are they going to do it on? I think that's what makes the – so many of these Vancouver conversations come back to JT Miller, but that's what makes so many of these Vancouver conversations come back to JT Miller.

But that's what makes the JT Miller signing so interesting, I think, to this entire conversation. Because it seemed as if, did it not feel to you like they were going to do this on the Horvat, Pedersen, Hughes, Demko timeline? If you complimented that, you were on the team. If you didn't, we're going to move you to trade for assets that put us on that timeline because you're right. Like there's no reason for Vancouver to start from scratch. Like you can look at it kind of in a way like the New York Rangers when they said we're rebuilding, but they really weren't.

Well, they were. And then Panarin dropped on their laps and changed everything. But they still, they kept Kreider. Like, they still kept a lot of players. Like, there were still some really, really good players. Like, did Panarin end up in their laps?

Absolutely. But this was not scorched earth with the Rangers, nor should it be scorched earth with the Vancouver Canucks. You have elite players at every single position. every single position, including down the middle. Yes. There's no reason why this has to be a take it right down. No, you don't need to do that. I think the only thing here is to your point, is there something wrong in the room, and whose timeline is this going to be on?

I want to take it a little bit further. We talked about Washington. If there's a year for Vancouver to tank, it's this one, because it's Conor Bedard, right? Yep. I have to say, if I ran the Vancouver Canucks right now, I would be sitting there and saying, do we just mail this one in and go for Bedard? Now, here's the thing. That is rife with a lot

of things. First of all, Bedard's a Vancouver guy. He loves the Canucks. Apparently, he likes their Instagram posts all the time. that's what someone said to me today it's a sensible play here's the thing jeff in the analytic world you know going back to billy bean and money ball he talks about the playoffs as luck right well nothing is more lucky than the draft lottery nothing you talked about You talked about Pittsburgh rebuilding and winning. Yes, but they won the ultimate draft lottery. Toronto that year, they got Matthews. They won the ultimate lottery.

Edmonton won McDavid. They won the ultimate lottery, although they didn't have as much lottery luck before. I think if you're Vancouver, you take the chance now they won the ultimate lottery, although they didn't have as much lottery luck before. I think if you're Vancouver, you take the chance now because odds are you're not going to make the playoffs, but you could still have the worst record in the league and not get the guy. Now, what I think you can do if you're Vancouver though,

is say, we're going to go for the best pick we can this year and hopefully add a young talented player to our group because to me the number one thing right now is why this group on paper which looks really talented and has more young talent than several other teams can't get going. That's the question I'm asking. What's wrong here? And maybe it is cliques. I don't know, but they're just not as good as the sum of their parts. Just as an aside, other teams have had cliques and have been successful before.

Like this, this isn't like, I know it's an easy answer is, well, you know, you got to break it up. If you have cliques in the room. I hate to break the news to you about most dressing rooms. They're kind of cliquey. They tend to be that way. Even if you don't get Conor Bedard, this is a deep draft. Yep.

Like, I don't know how much Adam Fantilli you've watched this year, but holy smokes, does he look great at Michigan. I know Matvei Michkov's going to take a while to get there, but what a supreme talent. And go all the way down, that Benson kid in Winnipeg, he looks great. Richie in Oshawa is fantastic. I like the defenseman in Guelph, Cam Allen. There's players here, man. Even if you don't get conor bedard the ultimate you still get really good players that's what i think you're doing now jeff if you're running

off the year and you might have to the odds are you're not making the playoffs now but that's what i think you're doing i think you're saying look we're looking to add the best possible player we can in the draft this year and then go from there. But the other thing we have to figure out is why this talented group can't get going. Jeff, the other thing that's problematic about Vancouver historically, and I remember Brian Burke talking about this, a guy who knows Vancouver really well, the Canucks tend not to sell well historically when they're not winning. And I would guarantee to you that looms large over the organization. However, if you get Bedard, it solves your problem. But you got to think that that's a

factor here too. One more clip here from Rutherford, and we've already mentioned it. Let's hear from Rutherford himself on After Hours, the Boudreaux contract. Well, first of all, I think it's laid out a little bit the wrong way. He came here, and it was my understanding that he was going to get a contract for just last year he got a contract really for two years and so he's he's still got his contract it wasn't about that we extended him one year was that we just lived by the contract he had as i look at it now it was

the right thing to do he's he's got to work through this with his team. And at the appropriate time, we'll talk to him about what his future is. I mean, that was an eyebrow-raising clip, to say the least. The interesting thing to me about this is that there were other people that the Canucks interviewed for the managerial position or some role there, whether it was Rutherford or something similar. And I got the impression that they did know what Boudreaux's contract said. And for those of you who have forgotten, Boudreaux got a one-year deal,

and then there was an option for the second year. But if the Canucks didn't keep him, they would have to pay him a certain severance. And if he wanted to test the market, they wouldn't have to pay him, but he'd be a free agent. And after the way he finished, you know, it made a lot of sense to keep him. Now, I think the Canucks looked at what else was out there. I absolutely think they looked at what else was out there, but ultimately he came back. Now it is weird. Like people listen to that.

They thought that was, it's bizarre. And when things are going bad for your organization, it definitely makes you look and sound terrible. I don't know if there was a miscommunication or what happened, but I do know that other people who talked to Vancouver said they were aware of what Boudreaux's status was, but for whatever reason, Rutherford wasn't. Okay. but for whatever reason, Rutherford wasn't. Okay. Now, I think the one thing, Jeff, we'd all have to admit here is that Vancouver's got to be looking for another coach.

Now, that doesn't mean that they're going to do it, but they have to be looking at it. It just defies logic that they wouldn't. And you and I and a lot of us in the media, we love Boudreaux. It's just a fact of where we are right here. And I think it's a really challenging one for them because they're paying Travis Green almost 3 million not to coach this year. Plus you've got Boudreaux's salary, and then you've got whatever you have to pay for another coach. Boudreaux is, he's got the reputation as somebody who makes players comfortable.

I think if they make the coaching change, I wonder if they're going the exact opposite way. And I'm also wondering, does Vancouver want to give anybody term, or are they going to want someone just to come in for the rest of this year? I think it's very hard to do this right now, because especially if you want somebody young, is another team going to let someone leave to you early in the season? During the season. Yes.

I think if you're going to quote unquote write off the season, to be honest with you, Elliot, I'm not sure, and considering to your point about them paying Travis Green still,

if you're not going to be able to sell a playoff race or playoffs at all, can you see Vancouver adding another expense? I'm not sure that I can. The only way I would say it is if they have someone they want to look at or someone who they think is going to be 180 degrees different

and they want to see how all the players react to it. I don't think Philadelphia is letting John Tortorella go, Elliot. You want to know what the funniest thing is about that, Jeff? That. Is somebody said to me, what's the anti-Boudreaux? It's a Tortorella. Yeah. But Tortorella's taken.

Plus, he's also been there. All right. You're listening to this podcast probably on Monday. Tonight, Vancouver faces off against Carolina, a trip to Seattle, and then back home against the, checks notes, oof. Pittsburgh Penguins. Elliot, before we get into something a little bit fun here, I want to remind everybody, shopsportsnet.store is open.

You can get 32 Thoughts merch there. That includes hoodies. that includes t-shirts, and that includes something you've been angling for for a while now, coffee mugs, Elliot. Who do you got to know around here to get one of the coffee mugs? Evidently, I don't know the right people. Normally, I say Amel,

because he does a lot of the grunt work behind the scenes, does a lot of the dirty work to keep ourselves nice and clean. He actually does all the, you know, gets a lot of the dirty work to keep ourselves nice and clean. He actually does all the, you know, gets their dirt under the fingernails for us, Elliot. But I think we need to go a little bit higher than Amel on this one. I think we have to go to Madison for this one. Madison, I hope you listen.

Let's go. Make with the coffee mug for fridge. I want to get to a few things. I want to talk about Australia. I want to talk about Ethan Bear. mug for fridge i want to get to a few things i want to talk about australia i want to talk about ethan bearer wouldn't mind a note or two about rasmus dalene and a big event in north american hockey i want to mention that as well but first how about this one how about we call this little segment are you a believer okay in the last few podcasts people have noticed there's sort of been like a religious timber about you elliot so we're're going to go with, are you a believer?

I'm going to throw out a few teams. Okay. And you say, yes, I'm a believer or no, this is fool's gold. There's no gold in them hills. Let's start with, these are just some of the surprise teams out of the gates. See if they have any staying powder, according to Elliot here. Start with the Buffalo Sabres, whom we just saw Saturday on Hockey Night. Four and one plus 11 goal differential.

Mike Babcock would always say that's the most important stat, and generally I do agree with it, of the regular counting stats. I'm a believer, Jeff. Now, I will say this. I did have someone who keeps track of not the public expected goals models,

but the internal expected goals models, which are more detailed and better than what we see publicly. And he told me that Buffalo's expected goal numbers prior to the Vancouver game. This was are actually low Buffalo's down there with a lot of teams that aren't very good, but I like their talent. I wonder if the goaltending is going to hold just because of Anderson's age, though I should know better than to doubt against him, but I believe in the talent. That Samuelson injury was really tough. They looked like they really dodged a bullet. Apparently he's not as badly hurt as it looked but i'm a believer

like the monkeys i well that's a really hip reference like the monkeys i'm a i'm a daydream believer in the buffalo savers have you met my co-host mickey dolan's um we are so old so old i know bad reference like old old references You know where I'm at with Buffalo? I'm like Fox Mulder. Remember that poster in Fox Mulder? He said, speaking of dated references from the X-Files. At least we've moved from the 60s to the 90s. He had that poster, I want to believe.

Yes. That's how I feel about Buffalo. I don't know if it's legit, but I really want it to be legit. I really want this to be a really good team. That's good. Okay, who's next? Am I a believer? Chicago Blackhawks.

Look what they did this afternoon. We're recording this Sunday night. Look what they did this afternoon. Dying moments, a couple of goals. Bam, bam, big win. Three wins in a row. Tyler Johnson saying how much better the locker room is now? Not yet.

I think it's great. The league needs a good Chicago team, and I'm very happy for Luke Richardson, who was a very, very popular person around the National Hockey League. But I still think it's too soon to them. By the way, there's some places, I just don't understand why they play Sunday afternoon games. It seems, especially during football season,

like I know the Bears aren't playing until Monday night, and I guess I might have just answered the question myself, but that just seems like a weird place to play a Sunday afternoon game. Anyway, they're showing a lot of spirit, short-handed goals. Yeah. Jujar Kara got them going with one after they fell behind on Sunday. I just still think it's a little bit too soon. For a Vancouver audience, do you want to mention Jason Dickinson?

Jason Dickinson, as one of my good friends from Vancouver told me, this could only happen to the Canucks. We trade a guy to some other team and he lights it up. I said to him, yeah, that's never happened anywhere before. Yeah, exclusive to Vancouver, pal. Exclusive to Vancouver. I think they're better than we thought to start the season, three wins in five games. I don't know who was predicting that, but too soon, too soon.

Detroit Red Wings, sir. I know you love what nickname are we going for that third line? The Tresum. The Tresum we are going to go with. That's official. So Soderblom, Rasmussen and Sundquist, we're going with that one. Okay. Well, put it this way.

If Mickey Redmond suggests it, all the Red Wings fans are buying it. So we might as well buy it too. They keep starting with them, eh? Well, why not? They put them out to start today's game too. Someone sent me a funny clip of Ben Sherrod just dummying people up and down the ice for Detroit today. I'm beginning to think that this might actually be for real,

simply because I looked at a lot of these veterans as plug and plays for a couple of years, and I think they are. But, Jeff, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe Detroit's own homegrown talent is better and more ready than we realized. I think the whole thing hinges on what's happening with Dylan Larkin. I mean, he looks great again. That great play he made against the Kings the other day. Oh, on the back check, strips the puck, keeps it alive.

The wings live again. Look out here. Good bounce, LA. Oh, what a play by Dylan Larkin. Arvidsson to keep it alive. Wow. And is he getting some accolades at the bench for that very play? This game should have been over.

I mean, I'm watching this thing from the bench right here. And look at Larkin come back. It should have been over. But it ain't. Holy mackerel. 40.9 seconds left. Incredible. Not a Kubelik to Perron.

Perron, two goals in the game. Now a shot and Sundquist scores! He got the feed. Skated out in front, tucked it into the far corner. And this game is tied 4-4. Woo! That's one of the best plays of the season,

period. Yeah. To me, the whole thing hinges on what's going to happen with Dylan Larkin here. Someone said to me, do you remember a captain who played for Steve Iserman who really wanted to stay in his market and what happened that would be Stephen Stamkos and he stayed but also he stayed for a number and not like he's

got any tag days eight and a half million but he stayed for a number that Steve Eisenman said, this is as far as we're going. Florida versus Michigan is like, we understand how it works with Florida salaries. But I'm just saying that is the Eisenman way. There's a limit to how far he'll go. And if he knows you want to stay, he can really draw a line. We'll see what happens. But I like them. But I like them. I do like them. Ottawa Senators. We've talked plenty about Ottawa. Let's do it some more.

Sens, are you a believer, Elliot? I'm worried about this Josh Norris injury. You know, he's going to have an MRI and they'll see. The reaction that Norris had told you all you needed to know. Oh, he was angry. Oh, man. But you know what? Forsberg has done a great job holding the fort,

and you know who's been really good? The guy who they refused to even think about training for Chikrin, Shane Pinto, scored in four straight games. Four goals. Hopefully he gives them some time. But yes, I am a believer in Ottawa, and I think this race in the Atlantic is going to be fun. Are you a believer in the devils?

Wasn't it a week ago we were talking about Lindsey Ruff possibly losing his job? One game away, yeah, from being replaced by his assistant coach. Yeah. There might not be a more important player in the league this year to his

team than Mackenzie Blackwood. Now, we could have lots of arguments. I know people could say this. Look, the Devils' underlying numbers are really good. Blackwood has had a couple of good games that really helps them out. The other thing someone pointed out to me is they have a really easy schedule to start the year

in terms of playoff opponents from last year. Now, you know my opinion on that. You can't blame a team for the schedule, but you have to beat who you have in terms of playoff opponents from last year. Now, you know my opinion on that. You can't blame a team for the schedule, but you have to beat who you have in front of you. And when you're handed that kind of a diet, you have to take care of business because that means that the other side is coming later. I thought they looked really good this week.

Their win over the Islanders was extremely impressive. I want to say yes. I'm still waiting to see. One person who's looked exceptional. Well, there's a couple on this team that have looked exceptional. I mean, Jesper Bratt looks fantastic, but I know you're probably sick of me talking about Nico Hescher, but here I go again. Steps right in, playing some of his best hockey.

And he was hurt. Just stay healthy, Nico. Stay healthy. And he's going to Just stay healthy, Nico. Stay healthy. And he's going to be in the sulky conversation sooner than later. Oh, by the way, speaking of New Jersey, do you have a sense on Severson, on Damon Severson?

I heard the issue there was going to be term. Okay. One of the names to follow, he's on an expiring contract. Okay, Elliot, despite the fact that the Flyers just lost to the San Jose Sharks as we record this podcast, your thoughts on the Flyers just lost to the San Jose Sharks as we record this podcast your thoughts on the Flyers are you a believer and are you a believer in Carter Hart's 949 save percentage? Jeff how many shifts did Travis Konechny and Kevin Hayes get in the third period on Sunday night?

Off the top of my head I do not know how many you have it in front of you? The answer is zero it begins. The John Tortorellalla ing of this team no revenge you have any idea why revenge yeah i'm sure i mean we weren't playing enough nothing in particular though i don't have those i mean i was out for both goals so sure i had something to do with it you and kevin are pretty much one of the better players on this team one of of the leaders on this team. What kind of message does that not send to you guys, but also the whole team that, you know, John's saying that anybody can, you know, be in the same boat every night? I mean, he's been honest about that since day one of camp.

It doesn't matter who you are. You've got to play the right way. And, you know, if we weren't doing the right things tonight, and I know, again, I was out for two goals, I had some mistakes tonight, and, I mean, it's his decision. I have to say I've been incredibly impressed with the Flyers. Those guys are playing hard. You know what I said at the beginning of the year.

I was saying, okay, who are the worst teams in the league? They're Arizona, they're Chicago, they're Montreal, though I think Montreal is going to compete a bit harder. And then I said, you know, who knows what's going to happen with Philadelphia here. I wondered if they could be on the list. They come out, they win four of their first five, and Hart's going to tell everybody that the preseason is completely overrated.

I'm not a believer yet, but I am impressed. I am really impressed. They are much, much more competitive to start the year than I thought they were going to be. And that's why when we talk about Vancouver, if they make the coaching change, they're going to be looking for a guy who brought the attitude to Philly that Tortorella did.

Because I'm not convinced they're a great team at all, but what I am convinced is they're like a dog on a bone, and that's what he wants. Okay, so you're a believer in at all. But what I am convinced is they're like a dog on a bone and that's what he wants. Okay. So you're a believer in the Buffalo Sabres, the Detroit Red Wings, the Ottawa Senators. You have a healthy respect for how Philadelphia is playing. You wonder about Mackenzie Blackwood, but you like the rest of the team. Yes.

And while the Chicago wins are cute, you don't think that there's any there there. I just don't know if the staying power is there. Let me ask you about a couple of defensemen. I want to get to Rasmus Delin here in a second, but you talked about Ethan Bear Saturday on hockey night. What's happening with Ethan Bear that does not

seem to be any room at the end here for the right shot D. Look, he hasn't played yet. Like I said, I don't think there's anything nefarious here. Rod Brindamore is just going with the lineup that he thinks gives him the best chance to win. And after I reported on Saturday night, I heard that there was actually a trade request in last summer that he wanted to move on. And obviously it didn't happen. And one of the things I've heard that the Hurricanes have told people is, look, we don't have a cap problem. And they've told people

he's an NHL defenseman. He's not playing for us right now, but he is an NHL defenseman. Basically, they said, we don't have a cap problem, so it doesn't make any sense for us to keep 50% of his salary and then get a poor or minimal return. So what I think they're going to do is if someone doesn't step up, and I think Vancouver has been one of the teams that's kind of looked at it there. You know, to be honest, I also wonder if it makes sense for a team like Toronto too, but that would also take some moving around of people and bodies, but definitely Vancouver has been in it. I think their position is we're not keeping 50% for a bad deal.

So if somebody doesn't step up, I wonder if they just put them on waivers. And I think at one, at some level, Bear would welcome that because if someone takes him, he goes and plays. But if someone doesn't take him, at least he goes and plays in AHL Chicago. I just think the kid wants to play. Speaking of defensemen, Rasmus Dahlien scores again on Saturday.

Thompson across, middle step. Back to Dahlien, long wrist shot. Tipped in! Might have gone off a canuck. And if it did, that's Dahlien's with a goal in five straight games to extend the record and tie the club record to start a season. You can see this.

It's not how hard, but get it through and where. And Darlene, here's the wrist shot and you can see. And that's through amazing. I hate to do the, if we voted for the Norris now, but I was having a conversation with someone this afternoon about Rasmus Darlene and this person skated with him. someone this afternoon about Rasmus Dahlien and this person skated with him. I think he said three times in the summer and came away just like stunned and saying, I'm telling all my friends, this guy's going to win the Norris trophy this year. Like this guy, I have a crystal ball about this. This guy's going to win the Norris trophy. He looks calm. He looks patient i remember warren reichel when he had mikhail sergachev in in windsor

said you know he plays like he's in a rocking chair he's like just that comfortable and cool and patient and composed rasmus dahlin kind of looks that way like i doubt that he gets his heart rate up at all he just looks like so calm and efficient like he looks elliot like right now the best defenseman in the nhl i know it's early but there it is he's he looks fantastic elliot he looks excellent he's scoring you know the thing i really like about him he's got a real mean streak well you saw the snowing of josh norris not too long like don't let a little you know innocent smile fool you this guy can this guy can be nasty. He's off to a great start.

And he's one of the reasons I believe in Buffalo. Okay. Do you believe the NHL is going to Australia? I'll tell you this. They're definitely going, but the question is, is it just a site survey or are they actually going to go play games? Did the person who proposed it, are they also the ones that are going on the site survey? Not, I don't know that.

I would say yes. If they were smart, the answer would be yes. We're thinking about Maui. Can I go and do a site survey for a couple of weeks? Seriously, because then what you could do is you could argue you need Australia, and then you can go halfway back. You can play a couple games in Hawaii, and it's perfect. Don't need a site survey. Yeah.

Now somebody asked me about a city. I think it's Melbourne. Okay. Now, well, one thing I did here after is I think there is some skepticism. Does it make sense? But I'm all for it.

I am all for it. Cause you know, I think Australia is an incredible place. I've always wanted to go they're looking at it and it's going to be next season now someone said to me they thought it would be 2024 25 but it is possible it could be next season and they are going to do a site survey and we'll see where it goes but it's going to be an interesting one it's definitely on the radar okay elliot in that spirit, if they go,

we can start to build the case here slowly. So if you look at this podcast and the popularity of it based on country, it's Canada, USA, Sweden's in at third, UK and Northern Ireland at fourth. This is all from Amal Delic, our producer and the guy that does the dirty work for us. And then Finland and Australia

tied in fifth. So then we have to go. And we have to do a tour. That's the case right there. Absolutely we do. I think maybe this is the entire summer, Elliot. From July to September training camp, we're in Australia. I would assume then the St. Louis Blues getting

ahead of ourselves here would be the team with Nathan Walker.er whoever's there's gonna be a race to sign him next summer from teams that want to go there uh okay that's an interesting one and jeff before we wrap up i did want to talk about the cap a little bit because it was one of the big stories of last week okay i had a few people tell me that they were surprised that Bettman would say it could go up $4 million and going to be close because they said it's ambitious. It's a challenge. It's no guarantee. And a lot of people said it's ambitious. And I have a theory on this. First of all, he likes to project the league is healthy. He always does. It's his way. If you followed him around for 30 years, you know that that's the way he does things. We're headed into very challenging financial times. It looks like here. And I think he wants people to know that the

league is healthy. And I think that's one of the reasons he's sending that message out. It's like, come be with us because we're a healthy investment. And he's smart enough to think like that. It wouldn't surprise me, but I had a few people who said to me, that's ambitious. And I think there's going to be some teams who are going to hedge and be careful. Just say, hey,

we're not doing this or preparing for this until we're sure. Elliot, something real special happened over the weekend. It's a landmark in hockey, and we hope that one day it won't even be a news event. And that is Luke Prokop played his first pro game for the Norfolk Admirals against the South Carolina Stingrays. On Friday, he became the first openly gay hockey player in North America to suit up in a pro game.

A great moment for, certainly a great moment for Luke Prokop. And I think it's a great moment for hockey in general. Wish him all the best. Hope he has a great season. And a great career. Congratulations. Let's get to a couple of emails, a couple of phone calls as well,

Elliot. Emails, send them in, 32thoughts at sportsnet.ca. Paul from Edmonton. After the last few years, we have watched endless replays from various angles of referees

going to endless lengths to find out if a play was offside or not. It is a literal pixel by pixel examination. Why is it that gaining the red line before dumping the puck in to negate icing is still so discretionary? An excruciating standard for one and a simple, meh, close enough for the other.

I've thought a lot about this one too. You know what? This is the kind of thing that you would think about. That's why I wanted to include it today. I'm sorry, like dump-ins behind center, technically those are icings. It gets a free pass. It's like, yeah, yeah, that's fine. Yeah, I don't know what to tell you it's hard

for me to get worked up about this stuff like i can understand how if you're like a person who sweats the small stuff this would drive you crazy but it's very hard to get me worked up about this i'm sorry not even in the spirit of consistency no offsides and icings i mean they're shaking hands with each other i am a horribly inconsistent human being that much is true okay let's get a uh i don't we didn't even begin to try to answer that one elliot just kind of treated it like a dump in from behind the red line and said meh close enough is fine but the thing is what do you want to do review more things well that's that's the whole thing if you're going to redo that's's the law of unintended consequences, right?

If you're going to do this, then why aren't you doing that as well? If you're going to do offsides, why not do icings? They both impact scoring chances. There's enough things in life that I can get worked up at. I can't get worked up about this one. No, what's the saying? Always sweat the small stuff? That's the saying, right?

That's what it is? That's what I've been living by. Did I get that right, Elliot? It's done very well for you, I have to say. All right, voicemail. Here's Vitaly in Los Angeles. Hey guys, Vitaly here from Los Angeles. Big fan. Thanks for all that you guys do. Wanted to get your opinion on the challenge offside rule and see what your thoughts are. I'm very much against it. I feel like it takes away more goals from the game. Plus, it shows up the linesmen who are the ones making the bad call.

Looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say. Thank you. Can I jump in on this one first, Elliot? Sure. You know what I'm thankful for? Because I know if I were a linesman, I would do this. if I were a linesman, I would do this. I'm thankful that more linesmen on close calls don't just default to, I'm calling it offside because it will make my life easier and it won't go to review. To be honest, when I first heard that, okay, they're going to do these reviews on

offsides, my initial instinct was get ready for a whole bunch of offsides. Because if I'm a linesman, I don't want an endless parade of reviews. If it's close, it's offside. Because it's not going to be a review unless there's a goal. So we're just lining up in the neutral zone. Offside, offside, offside. That hasn't happened. Well, no, because I think these people have more integrity than you do.

So that's why it hasn't happened. That's what I'm pointing out, Elliot. I would be a horrible official because I just try to save my own skin. Like, oof, I don't want this one to be video reviewed. I have this one on my resume. I'm just calling it offside and I'm being safe. You know, I think that one of the things, and Vitaly didn't say this, but I think that definitely one of the things this year that's bugging people is the length of time. There've been some long

reviews this year. Like there was one, I can't remember which NFL game I was watching earlier today, but there was a really long review. And I said, geez, it's not only happening in hockey. I don't know what's going on here. Look, I understand how Vitaly feels. First of all, how Vitaly feels. First of all, I think this, if I was a linesman and I had the choice of going down wrong forever for making a brutal call in a huge game or linesman overturning it. So people might remember my name for 10 minutes,

but then it's forgotten. I'm taking option B 10 million times out of 10 million. And the other thing too, is you remember how this all started with the Carlson play or a Carlson play or the Matt Duchesne play. Matt Duchesne was the big one. Yeah. If we let those things count,

people are like, what a bunch of morons. How can they not have review for this? So you're damned if you do it, you're damned if you don't, you try to find the best system you can. And I think we're better with replay than without. Dan from Abbotsford,

a contract question. My question is what is the advantage for a player or team to sign an entry level contract or year or two before they would actually play in the AHL or NHL? I'm seeing teams signing ELCs, but the player is either still in junior or elsewhere for a year or two more. Is there some benefit to this? I think there's a couple of things there. First of all, if a player is sent back down to junior, it doesn't count against your 50 contracts. So you're not actually taking up a space. So that's important for people to remember. I think there's a couple of things. Number one, you want it. Sometimes you want to reward a player and say, you know what,

you earned your contract. There you go. Sometimes the clock starts sooner. Like for example, if you draft a player out of the CHL, you keep their rights for two years. Like the NCAA is four and overseas is four. USHL is four, but CHL is two. So sometimes you want to just say, look, we don't want any problem. We liked your camp. We're signing you. And the other thing, sometimes it happens and it doesn't happen in every case, but I was reminded it does. If you give a player a signing bonus, puts money in their pocket, especially if they're a player that comes from a family that doesn't have a ton of money or things are a little tighter with them. You've got money now, probably more money than you've ever seen or thought you might see in your life, depending on the bonus. And that's a good thing. You can buy your parents something,

you can buy yourself something, you can invest the money. That's not an insignificant thing, I've been told in several situations. Excellent. From David, more on salaries. Can you explain to us how rookie salaries are determined? I was looking at CapFriendly today and the Montreal Canadiens specifically, and I noticed that Slavkovsky's salary is $950K, Caulfield's is $880K, Jack Ia's $828K, Gouley isley is 863. What is it that makes these numbers slightly different? How are these amounts decided? They're negotiated. There's a max

and Slakowski's got the max. This is the number one pick. But with bonuses. Yeah, it can be higher. But basically it's negotiations and the more the later you're taken, the less you tend to get. There are some exceptions, some players who slipped in the draft, but, you know, maybe have a really big first year

draft plus one year, maybe they negotiate something higher, but generally Slakowski is the number one pick. So he gets the max in terms of hard salary. And some of those other players or the other players you mentioned, they're not the number one pick so in their cases they got a little bit less it doesn't always happen that way but it happens that way a lot okay this is a frivolous one let's see where this gets us okay rink slash arena fries ethan from calgary what makes great rink fries what are your favorite rink fries my favorite growing up in calgary was at Springbank Park for all season. They were piping hot and had great seasoning. Would love to hear your thoughts.

Back in the day, George Bellarino in the West End used to have great. You talked about George Bellarino's fries. Oh, they were so good. Well, we have mentioned Boudreau, the top of the show. He would know that. He spent plenty of time with George Bellarmine. He used to live not too far from there. The thing about rank fries, I have thought a lot about this.

And to me, it comes down to two things. One, can the French fry fight back? Like there's some fries that are kind of soggy and limp that get served up to you in the little cartons. I agree with you on that. You need a fry that has a spine. Not too much. You don't want it too crispy, but you need a French fry that can defend itself.

And two, it needs to be strong enough to hold. Ready for this one, Elliot? Mm-hmm. Mustard. That's how I like my ring fries. I know a lot of people default to ketchup. I like my ring fries with mustard. That's how I like my rink fries. I know a lot of people default to ketchup. I like my rink fries with mustard. Does it have to be thick cut?

Doesn't have to be. I actually prefer thin, but it doesn't have to be. This conversation is going to turn into a meme for all the reasons I won't want to remember. But to me, they have to be thick cut fries. Why? I just like them better.

Why not just a couple of thins put together, Elliot? No, that's stupid. Is it because they hold condiments better? No, I just like thick cut fries better. But to me, I have to say I'm not the best authority on this because I care more about the hot dogs. I won't go crazy about necessarily bad r hot dogs. I won't go crazy about a necessarily bad rink fries. I won't like them.

But if I get a bad rink hot dog, that causes a problem. I might throw a temper tantrum. Someone's getting a tweet. No, I don't do that. I'm not one of those people who blows people up on Twitter over poor rink hot dogs. One thing I do want to mention, and this is a shout out to my hometown, but it's legit.

They are really good. The fries at Stouffville arena where the Stouffville spirit play are exceptional. And I think I might've just bought myself like a couple of free fries for saying that, but they're so good. Elliot. Oh,

this is a good one from Mark. We might need to get Amal to chime in on this one. Appreciate the podcast. And in particular, the interviews that have sprinkled throughout the past few episodes. My question is, how long do these interviews actually take? A few

minutes or half an hour or an hour? How much ends up getting cut by Amal either due to Elliot and Jeff's ramblings or otherwise? Well, first of all, all my questions are very economical and precise. Elliot's turned into soliloquies. So great question, Mark.

Do you want to try this one or should we just bring Amel on to answer it? Bring Amel in. Answer it from Mark. An example would be Jason Robertson was 42 minutes and we got it down to about 32 and change. That's not bad. Haven't we had more? Haven't we handed you some that are like 90 minutes? It's like, you know, turn this into a snappy 30.

Yes. Yes. Yeah. A week and a half ago. Which one was that one? East plus news episode. Oh, but that wasn't an interview. Just us rambling on about the, oh yeah, I remember that one. That was a long one.

Mark, I would say the biggest problem is not the interviews. It's when Jeff and I are just talking and I repeat the same thing four times. That's when Amal really has to go through it. That's why we always apologize at the end of every podcast to Amal. Okay. Let's finish up with this one. Connor in Minnesota. Question about my hometown team, the Minnesota Wild.

The expectations being set by the team fans and media has been a roller coaster over the past six months from the beginning of the playoffs, the first round exit, to the preseason, to the start of the year flops. Is this just a bump in the road for a very deep team or should they sell players on expiring deals and poise themselves to hit the ground running in a few years when the dead cap expires? Minnesota Wild, what's Bill Guerin saying here, Elliot? I know Bill Guerin well enough, I think, to say the idea of conceding for like two or three years. No chance.

It's not happening. He ain't doing that. Conor in Minnesota, thanks so much for your question. And thanks to everyone who wrote in or called in. Taking us out today, a five-piece band that now calls Queens, New York, home. The Mystery Lights got a lot of their sound from the post-punk era mixed in with their California roots from their 2019 record, Too Much Tension. Here's Mystery Lights with I'm So Tired. Ain't that the truth?

On 32 Thoughts to Podcast. What's the point? I guess I'm just a second type of living in the city She's just a fucking human being, that's about my nature I'm so tired I'm so tired I'm so tired Of living in the city I'm so tired of living in the city I'm gonna take a kid to your college degree Generously covered by your mom and daddy

I guess I'm just so sick and tired of living in the city