32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Fined For Flying

Episode Date: December 30, 2022

Back after a short break! Elliotte kicks things off with an insert talking Maple Leafs-Coyotes (1:00) and Alexis Lafreniere (3:10). Then the real fun begins as Jeff and Elliotte chat about Toronto and their pair of fines (6:30), the culture in Philadelphia (22:05), latest on Jakob Chychrun (27:30), wonder if the Kings will adding players (29:00), where the Panthers might go from here (31:20), Tyler Ennis at the Spengler Cup (33:30), the Bruins and  David Pastrňák (35:45), Winter Classic at Fenway Park (42:45), thoughts on the World Juniors (45:30) and Sam Ganger plays in his 1000th game (49:30).GET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREEmail the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailMusic Outro: New Bleach - NightListen to their debut album hereThis podcast was mixed by Mike Rogerson, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Okay, everyone, there's a full podcast with Jeff and I recorded Thursday afternoon, but after the games of Thursday night, there were a couple of things I wanted to drop in. Just remember, one of us stays up all night to watch the end of the West Coast games, and one of us doesn't. And the guy who doesn't is getting his beauty sleep. That's Merrick. A couple of things I just wanted to mention from Thursday night's games. First of all, if Arizona and Toronto meet in the Stanley Cup Final this year, the Coyotes are

going to be the favorites. Four times in the 2022 calendar year, once in January, once in March, once in October, and now on December 29th, the Coyotes beat the Maple Leafs head-to-head. It's been quite a year for the Coyotes beat the Maple Leafs head to head. It's been quite a year for the Coyotes at Mullet Arena.

They've beaten Colorado there. They've beaten Boston there and they've beaten Toronto there now. They have a winning record and there are people who get upset when I talk glowingly about this arena because they don't like the overall situation. But the fact is it's a thing. talk glowingly about this arena because they don't like the overall situation. But the fact is it's a thing. The Coyotes play very well there. And I never would underestimate the pride of an NHL player.

It's very clear that Arizona's got that chip in their shoulder mentality. And coach Andre Turney has done a great job of manifesting that. It's a unique place for games. There's no doubt about it, and Arizona is turning it into something, something where they're very difficult to beat, and Toronto was another example of that on Thursday night. Jack McBain, pretty interesting story. Merrick was the one who was on top of this last year,

and I wanted to give him credit for it. He was a Minnesota pick who told them he wasn't going to sign there and was going to go to the open market. Toronto kid, Arizona traded for him his rights and signed him. And he really had a huge night with a couple of goals and fighting Dryden Hunt, who was making his Maple Leaf debut. fighting Dryden Hunt, who was making his Maple Leaf debut. One of the things I wanted to add, we do talk about Jacob Chikrin later in the podcast. He's a point of game player. He's doing everything he needs to do to get traded.

After we recorded the pod, I had someone who told me that they think one of the reasons that he's still a coyote and hasn't been moved yet is Arizona's looking for that kind of two first round picks plus package or whether it's two first round picks or the kind of prospect who basically equals a first rounder. What this person told me is the biggest hurdle is that second first round pick or that second first round pick type player. He thinks there's a number of teams that are willing to do one first rounder and a prospect. The problem or one first rounder plus, the problem is that second first rounder or second

first round type thing. If Chikrin keeps playing the way he's going, it's going to sort itself out. But I wanted to add to that based on the other information we have in the podcast. The other thing I just wanted to talk about, because we didn't do it in the rest of the pod, and I wanted to make sure it was mentioned, was the healthy scratch of Alexi Lafreniere by the Rangers before they played Tampa. I don't think there needs to be a rush to judgment here in terms of anything happening quickly. I've covered a lot of Gerard Gallant over the years. I kind of understand the

way he thinks. First of all, Gallant is a guy who doesn't like to keep people out of the lineup for a long time. So I'm not surprised he would want to get someone like Sammy Blay back in so he can play. And that means somebody's got to come out. The second thing is Gallant is a person who, if a player isn't giving him everything he needs on a consistent basis, he will sit them out. The key thing to recognize here is he was asked about Ben Harper on Thursday and why Harper stayed in.

And he kind of went into a longer answer. Libor Hayek, he wanted him to grab the spot. He felt he didn't do it. Zach Jones, he wanted him to grab the spot. He felt he didn't do it. And that's why Harper's in there, at least for the time being. You know, he has to move someone out and he's saying, look, I haven't gotten everything I expect from this player.

I don't think it's a rush to mean that the Rangers are looking to trade him. I don't think that this means anything is necessarily imminent, like he's on the block or they're sending the feelers out and things like that. This is the way that this coach handles his players. He's very consistent over his career when it comes to things like this. He will sit players out or demote players in the lineup who he doesn't think are competitive enough on a game in game out basis. The other thing is early in the year when the Rangers were struggling, one of the things

I heard the Rangers indicated was they weren't looking to make moves as much as they were looking for people who were better last year in the playoffs to show more of that form in the regular season. And I still think that's kind of the way they look at it. Rather than moving people out, they expect players to get to the level that they showed last year. And Lafreniere is definitely one of those people. So I know obviously it's a big story. And, you know, as Rangers fans know, he was scratched last year late in the season. And the Rangers liked the way that he responded out of it.

That's kind of what this is intended to be. I get the sense of it. And I wouldn't jump to any conclusions now in terms of this means the Rangers are trying to move him or he's being shopped or whatever the case is. Now, the one thing that always could happen is does the player ever get to a point where he says, look, I'd like to go elsewhere. I don't have any indication that's the case. That's always something that can change things.

However, when it comes to what the Rangers have planned for him, I don't think this is something where everyone should assume he's immediately going somewhere. Okay, now back to your regularly scheduled pod. Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Hope you enjoyed the holiday extravaganza and the Marian Hossa interview that dropped on Wednesday. As always, the program brought to you by GMC

and the new Sierra AT4X. We are joined today, Elliot Friedman, by Mike Rogerson, who is filling in for Amal Delich. Mike, thank you so much for doing this today. All the goodwill the Maple Leafs may have built up with officials after not blasting Dan Kelly for roughing up

Michael Bunting is gone. Holiday fines, $25,000 for Sheldon Keefe, $100,000, it's a violation of the CBA, folks, for the Toronto Maple Leafs for flying early to St. Louis. Yeah, this one got a lot of interesting reaction. I have to say, I was a little annoyed at myself, Jeff. I wasn't on top of it.

I worked the Toronto Regional. Maybe I was a little hungover from Christmas turkey and cheer from our holiday party that I wasn't on top of this, but the news came down a hundred thousand dollar fine against the Maple Leafs for leaving early on the 26th. So basically what it comes down to is you cannot travel on the 24th, 25th and 26th. As a matter of fact, because of the weather, Tampa's game in Buffalo was postponed on the 23rd so that Tampa would be able to get home. So they do take this pretty seriously.

As a matter of fact, I'd heard that there may have been another team or two that asked if they could go early and were told no, and Chicago was one of them. Like basically on these games, you try to do it where a team travels an hour, an hour and a bit, two hours. You want to avoid it, especially when a border crossing is involved. Like I was not surprised what happened to San Jose against Vancouver. Yeah. For the 27th first day back, two hours plus a border.

You're asking for it. Although I heard San Jose did not ask to leave early. Chicago did a couple hours to Carolina, no border, but they were told you can't do it. So what happened with the Maple Leafs was they were scheduled to leave at 12.01 a.m. on the 27th. And the players got there early. And so they said, let's go. And the Maple Leafs decided to go. So they took off around 1030. Now, one of the

things I checked was, were the players on board with this? Because as you know, Jeff, the, some of the cynics among us, we sit there and we say, okay, the team says let's go. And the players don't really want to go, but they kind of go along and say, well, the team wants us to go. Let's go. I don't think that was the case here. I've heard from multiple places and including people with different agendas in terms of who pays their salaries, that the players were on board with this. They were there early enough and they wanted to go.

It's been 24 hours since this was announced that we record this and nobody has come to me and said, no, the players were against this. And believe me, I've asked plenty of people. But if you go through and you look at the cba the way it's read the pertinent part it's made very very clear that you are not even supposed to ask you are not even to request a player's consent to practice or travel on that date. So the NHL made it very clear. You may have wanted, the players may have wanted, but this is black letter law and it is a penalty.

Okay. So like you, I called around to ask if the Leafs players were on board with this. Because right away, I got a text from a friend of mine who works with a major league baseball team who said, you know, were the Leafs players upset that they traveled when they did and I said well let me make some calls and try to find out and I came to the same conclusion uh that you did that no one I didn't get any reports from anyone saying that they were upset about this or miffed about this or uh you know in any way put out by it and this person writes writes back to me, uh, well, that's $100,000 well spent then.

Uh, but FYI players in baseball would have a blank fit. If this happened to them, I wonder if this is just the hockey player in the hockey players that were just like, yeah, sure. We're early.

We'll go along with it. Jeff. Someone made a joke to me that, you know why the Maple Leafs players wanted to go? Why? And I said, what's that? And they said, they've been finished playing since the 22nd at five o'clock.

Their last game was on Thursday afternoon against Philadelphia. They are sick of their families and they want to leave. They're just done. Get me out to say nothing of their families and they want to leave. They're just done. Get me out to say nothing of their spouses saying, I can't miss you if you won't leave. The big game I remember in Christmas, 2013, 14 season, there was big one. Colorado had to travel to Chicago.

And that was a year where, uh, Chicago was still very good. And, uh, Colorado made the playoffs that year, but they weren't on the level of Chicago. And if you know, Denver, the airport, there is a hike from the city, but the flight from Denver to Chicago is two hours and 20 minutes. Plus you lose an hour on the clock, right? And they went into Chicago and they lost seven to two. I remember Healy was still working with us at the time and he went bananas about that one. He said it was unfair. It was unfair to make the avalanche fly that long on the day of a game to go.

And before Christmas that year, they'd been out West too. He thought it was a situation where the team was set up to fail. And so the league does try to do this, but I think this was a case where Toronto just said, look, we're going to make a statement to our players here. We're going to eat a statement to our players here. We're going to eat $100,000 and we're going to try to show that there's only one thing we care about and that is winning. And if we have to invite the Sportsnet staff to a game, so they eat a few extra hot dogs and therefore we pay off $100,000, we'll do that.

But the Maple Leafs are trying to send a message to their players here. Yeah. Okay. We'll eat the fine. We want to show that we're all about winning. Exactly how I thought about this. It's the Maple Leafs. You know what that is, Elliot? That's like, okay, go pull $100,000 off the tree in the backyard. Every team has the same amount of money they're allowed to spend by way of the salary cap. And we all know about the extras that can help lure players when everything is capped. It's like, okay, well, what else can you do for me? What else can you demonstrate that you're a team that's looking after my best interests? I looked at this situation and said, for the

Maple Leafs, that's not a fine. That's an investment. That's an investment to the marketplace saying, you know what? The league says we can't do it. We're going to make this easier for you guys. So you're not up at 4.30 in the morning to catch a flight. We're taking care of you this way. They've got every gadget known to man. They keep all pieces of data known to man.

And they're sitting there and they're saying it's better for us to fly at night than in the morning because that's what we normally do. The League and the Players Association said, you're not allowed to bend this. To your point, Jeff, I do think there were teams who felt that they should have been fined more, that $100,000 is not enough because you're going to go to a game and eat 25 vegan hot dogs and the debt's going to be paid off.

Ooh, they have those? Ooh, sounds delicious. They're not as good as the regular hot dogs, but they're not bad for vegan hot dogs. There are teams who felt this was not enough. I had thought that Philly was fined $100,000 a few years ago when this happened to them. Someone told me today, no, it was 50 and they doubled this one. I'm curious to see if when the general managers get together in March, do we get a situation, Jeff, where they

say we've got to make the fines more serious or do they say, let's go to the players association and see if we can find a workaround where if the travel is a little longer, maybe we can fly on the night of the 26th. Like I give credit to the tweeters and listeners. They're all sending me notes like, well, technically they're traveling to the airport. Isn't that a fine,

like guys, this isn't an escape game. I'm not looking for like ways around. I don't have the answers to these questions, but I wonder if the conversation becomes, is there a workaround? Like I'm not in a union right now, Jeff, but I was when we worked at CBC.

And I remember there was one time one of the union people came to me and you know, like on unions, I think I like with most things, I think there's things very good about them and there's things I disagree with them. You know, someone came to me once who was very big into the union and he says, look, we bargain for things for the group as a whole. And if you're ever asked to speak publicly about it, we just would hope that you would support that this is what we bargain

for. So we have to live with it. So that's kind of the way I look at things. If you sign a contract, you have to abide by it. I'm a person who likes to break rules all the time. I'm a big believer in it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission. But I understand that rules are rules. And if you get caught, you get caught. So I'm curious to see what's going to come out of this. I will say this, Jeff. The funniest thing I heard in the aftermath of all of this was that there was one team that had to fly in the morning

and their plane didn't have coffee and someone told me that when they heard that they knew that team was going to lose and i said why didn't you tell me this yesterday i would have bet against the team. You could charge large amounts of money for information like that to some of our degenerate friends. You haul your butt out of bed on the 27th to get to the airport at some ridiculously early time for an early flight, and there's no coffee available. Oh, I would have bet a billion dollars on the

other team. I believe that team lost too. Okay. So that's the team fine. What about the Sheldon Keefe 25 grand? Obviously I was working this game and I was like, speaking of coffee, the Maple Leafs better switch to decaf as I was watching Keefe.

And then I had a conversation with another coach on Wednesday. You know, he said to me, if you take a look at the coaches who've been fined, if you're Carolina, you're looking at that and you're saying, Hey, Rod Brindamore gets fined for this. Sheldon Keefe has to get fined for this. And yeah, I would agree with that. I actually wonder if the referees had thrown Keefe out of the game,

would he have been fined? But they're probably sitting there saying, we don't want to throw him out of a close game on a disputed call. That's an interesting one. I was talking to a referee about that because one referee said to me, if they throw Keefe out, he probably doesn't get fined. But they're also probably sitting there and saying, if we throw Keefe out in a tight game like this, what's worse for Toronto? So it was, it was interesting. One of the things that people jumped on right away is okay.

So Keefe gets a $25,000 fine. Where was the fine for Daryl Sutter for implying the, uh, the officials are in the bag for Toronto? It's a good question. I can't argue with you on that. I think a lot of people are, are, are wondering how he skated on that one. That one to me seems more egregious in the actual content of what he's saying than blasting an official for a perceived slight.

Yeah, I'm not going to argue with you on that one. It's a fair point. I think what's interesting on this one is what the call was that made Keefe go squirrely in the first place. Because someone made a really good point to me. He said, how different is the world right now if that John Tavares goal in game seven against Tampa is allowed to stand? I think a lot of things change because this is going to sound bizarre, but not only does the goal count, but more importantly, it doesn't get disallowed. And when a goal goes in doesn't get disallowed and when a goal goes in it gets disallowed there's that natural especially when you're playing against a team like tampa at home

and you've had at home and you've had to grind for everything like that maple leaf team had to grind for every single inch they got against tampa specifically in that game when you have one and it gets called back that's's devastating, Elliot. So Jeff, in that game seven, and there's nothing more fun than playing what-if games with the Toronto Maple Leafs and their fans, that goal ties the game at one. It's not to say that Toronto wins game seven, but maybe Toronto wins game seven. How is life different for everybody in that organization if Toronto wins game seven. How is life different for everybody in that organization? If Toronto wins game seven and instead they lose that game, they get off to a rough start

this year. Everybody's getting fired. Kyle Dubas doesn't have his contract extension. Yes. What another coach said to me is he totally understood why Keith snapped because it's like ptsd that's what he said you know what else they say elliot ifs and buts were candies and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas and i hope. Anyway, the other one too, the other one too, the high stick,

the argument that was made is that a couple of years ago at a GM's meeting in Toronto, Steve Eisenman argued that if an offside looks close, don't blow it dead. Let's get goals. And if we have to take them off under review, let replay do that air toward goals. That's what his feeling was. And I like that. I agree with that thinking. You could also make an argument that what could happen now is now that we know a penalty can be taken away with the rule change this year. If a high stick is a player's own stick or a teammate's own stick, make the call and then review it. And if you're wrong, you're wrong. Like that's the one thing I would say to all referees and linesmen is we know this is a fast

game and we know that things get missed. Like I cannot blame a linesman. I'm, I'm, I'm so impressed by how many offsides they get, right? Cause it's so freaking fast. That's what it's there for is to check it like a referee misses who high sticks someone check it if it's his own teammate it happens at lightning speed that's what it's there for there are people who feel in that case call the penalty and if

you're wrong it goes away like i said keith was already going down the road in that game. He was wild. As another coach said to me, that's what he's thinking. He's thinking, use the tools at your disposal. But you know what? When I was watching that live, I was like, he's getting fined and he got fined. that fine. Listen to the 32 Thoughts podcast ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. I want to ask you about the Philadelphia Flyers, and here's why. So over the Christmas break, I picked up the latest from Alan Bass, who I think is an excellent hockey writer. It's the Ed Snyder story.

Ed Snyder, the last sports mogul. I haven't, I'm putting it off. I just haven't had time to pick it up. I'm like, okay, I got a dedicated week and a half. I'm going to read this thing. And I've wanted to make sure that I have enough time to be able to sit down and read it properly. Not like 15 pages here and put it down for a week and pick it up a week and a half later and do another 15 pages. I want a chunk of time where I could read this.

Because I want to get a sense of the Philadelphia Flyers. So I'm about halfway through and it's excellent. Alan, by the way, wrote another book that I highly encourage people to read. And that is The Great Expansion, The Ultimate Risk That Changed the NHL Forever. Alan's a great hockey writer. So I want to get a sense of who Ed Snyder was because the Philadelphia Flyers, as you know, Elliot, were Ed Snyder's team, period. Everything about that team was Ed Snyder.

A lot of the decisions were Ed Snyder's. A lot of big moments, whether it's the Flyers being fined and questions whether the Flyers ever paid those fines were all about Ed Snyder. So I want to get a sense of who Ed Snyder was going back to when he was a young man all through adolescence and working with the NFL team and NHL and expansion and all that.

I want to get a sense of who the Philadelphia Flyers are right now because I still get a sense and expansion and all that. I want to get a sense of who the Philadelphia Flyers are right now, because I still get a sense and have a belief that even though Ed Snyder is no longer with us, the spirit of Snyder still exists with this team. And the ethos has always been, we don't take a step backwards. We don't worry about things. Maybe sometimes frivolously, we don't worry about things like sometimes frivolously we don't worry about things like salary cap as long as we quote unquote get the player which can lead you as we all know into

doom and maybe a situation the philadelphia flyers find themselves in right now it feels to me as if we're on the brink of the philadelphia Flyers changing that and changing how they think and changing how they do business and how they move forward. Do you get that same sense that this is a team that is going to change direction probably from the first time since Ed Snyder said, I'm sick of the St. Louis Blues beating us up and damn it, we're going to do something about it. Do you get a sense that there's a change coming here? I am leaning that way, Jeff. I am. We'll see if it actually gets stated. I believe it's the right thing to do. And I get the sense that there's starting to become a feeling in the organization that there is an inevitability towards that. But it's one thing to say we're going to do it, and then I want to see if they actually do do it. First of all, about Snyder, in a lot of ways, I think he's the kind of person that a lot of people should aspire to be very successful, loyal to anybody who competed

for the flyers and an enemy to those who we felt didn't. But like, I remember Keith Primo, we did a piece on him once for one of the outdoor games. And Keith Primo told me that when he was told his career was over, he got out of the doctor's office. He was not sure where life was going to take him. And, you know, 15 minutes later, he got a call and it was Ed Snyder. And he said, look, Keith, I heard what the doctor told you. You were a great flyer for us and we're going to take care of you. And there were a bunch of players like that. Like Keith Jones had a similar story

when his career was over, same thing. I was an injury and not long after he came out of the doctors, Ed Snyder told him, you know, we're going to take care of you. And that was the flyer mantra. You fight for us and, and we'll fight for you. Now, like I said, there were situations where he felt if you were on the other side, he fought you very hard. Eric Lindros has made peace with the Flyer organization and now he's back involved. And, you know, Paul Holmgren deserves a lot of credit for that. You know, I've heard that Valerie Camillo, who's very involved in that organization now, keeps in touch with Eric Lindros. And, you know, I think that's the way it should be.

As you said, it was always step forward, never steps backwards. I get the sense that's changing now. Fans vote with their wallets, right? Yep, they do. I have heard that the Flyers have seen some things. I don't know whether it's attendance or it's revenue or whatever it is, that they've seen that the way this is going, it's not resonating with their fan base. And that always makes your decision for you.

It's not Twitter. It's not social media. It is the way people vote with their wallets. And I think the Flyers see where this is going and that as much as anything is going to get them to act. Okay. That's one of the things that now that we're back from the holiday break, the NHL is that is we'll keep our eyes on what's happening with the Philadelphia Flyers. One of the other things that everyone's keeping their eyes on now is, will we see an end to the Jacob Chikrin saga? Are we inching closer to a conclusion here in your estimation, Elliot, or are we still circling the tower waiting for the plane to land? Well, number one, he is living up to his end of the bargain. He is putting up points and that is

it. I think it's all about the fact that Arizona is holding strong to what they want. Like, I think the Kings have been trying and they just can't get to where Arizona wants them to go or they just haven't been able to get to where Arizona wants them to go. I think the better he plays like this, yes, we will get there. I've just heard that Arizona is holding to what they're going to do, and they feel emboldened by the fact that Chikrin is coming up and holding his end of the bargain. one Eastern. Everything may change after all the games tonight, but, you know, the LA Kings to me look like they're in a really interesting position here, you know, threatening for tops in the division. Quinton Byfield most recently called up after just absolutely damaging the American League. Like Quinton Byfield did exactly what you want him to do when you send him down. And he forced them to call him back up.

It's a team that looks to me like they are going to be adding and adding significantly. So no one should be shocked that they're very much, you know, I don't know whether you want to handicap it by saying, you know, they're in the lead and the Jacob's chicken sweepstakes. But it does look to me as if the Los Angeles Kings are open for business and open to adding and the teams below them aren't exactly helping themselves. No, they're, they're definitely not. I mean,

I never would have thought at the beginning of this season, as we go into the new years, Jeff, that Edmonton and Calgary would be like life and death to make the playoffs. Yeah. I didn't think that like, I, I, like I thought LA was pretty good. Phoenix Copley has basically saved their season. Sure has. I really thought that they were in, in huge trouble and Copley is kind of stabilized them. I think LA is a good team. I just look at them and I say, Rob Blake's going to do something. There's just no way he's not doing something, whether it's a goalie. We know he's got too many

defensemen. We know he's going to make a move. I'm just waiting to see what it is because you, you make the playoffs last year, you take Edmonton to game seven. You're not going backwards. You sign Fiala for eight times eight. You're not going backwards. You're going to do something. And I'm just waiting for Blake to pull the trigger. I'm looking through the Los Angeles Kings schedule right now, and I'm looking for one very specific date, Elliot.

I may have to amend a prediction that I made not too long ago here on the podcast. March 26th. Remember before how I said, if anyone's going to fight Binnington, it's going to be Kuchetkov? If Copley can continue this, Copley gave him a fight in the American League. I may need to amend my prediction

of the much-anticipated much anticipated Jordan Binnington fight. May not be Kachetkov. It may end up being Phoenix Copley, but we shall see. Scale of one to the sky is falling. How concerned are you about the Florida Panthers and the caveat being Florida Panthers don't own their first round pick that's owned by the Montreal Canadiens? Oh boy. Florida Panthers don't own their first round pick. That's owned by the Montreal Canadiens.

Oh boy. So Florida, I think when they did this this year, that trade with Kachuk, I think there was a little bit of, we're going to have a tight year with cap, but we're going to take the risk that we're still going to be good enough and we're going to be able to get out of some cap situations after this season.

Like if you look at their cap situation, they don't have any major deals coming up. Knight's extension kicks in, but they don't have any major deals coming up and they're going to have a little bit more flexibility than they do now. That said, they have no capital to make trades. And I did look at their defense and say, if they weren't going to get goaltending, they were going to have trouble. And unfortunately, that's kind of what's happened.

But Brofsky struggled and Knight, who I still think will be great, has been up and down. But boy, you are right, Jeff, that non-protection of the pick, it looms large. As we tape this podcast, they've got a 5.5% chance at the number one pick. That's going to be looms large as we tape this podcast they've got a five and a half percent chance at the number one pick that's going to be looming large over like i remember when calgary went through that they finished i think 13th or 12th from the bottom the year they traded a first

rounder for travis hamannik yeah and i just remember the sweat that they went through through that draft lottery just because because, you know, the odds were not that it was going to happen, but we've seen some weird stuff happen in these NHL draft lotteries, combinations you've never thought of. And yes, I could only imagine how much they're thinking about that because I did think Florida was going to take a step back just because of their defense, but I don't know if any of us thought it would be like this. And just as a matter of coincidence, you saw who the Florida Panthers are playing this evening as you record this on Thursday afternoon. The Montreal Canadiens.

Who could do themselves. I'm sure that won't come up at all. An extra bit of juicy business later on tonight. Tyler Ennis and the Spangler Cup. Tyler Ennis had a good offer to go play in Russia this year. I heard it was really good money. He decided not to do it. He wanted to stay in the NHL and he didn't get it, but he didn't go to Russia.

And now he's playing for Team Canada at the Spangler. I look at him, Jeff, and I got to think that he can score a big goal for somebody. You know, it's harder now because you have to clear waivers. Yep. If I needed a goal, I could do a lot worse than Tyler Ennis. I've always liked his story. Old medicine hat tiger. So that'll keep, you know, Kelly Rudy happy.

You know, he's a first round pick. I still remember that draft 2008 and all the talk about Tyler Ennis, you know, this damn goes and Dowdy draft or that this guy is too small, not going to happen. And he had a really productive NHL career, like a really nice NHl career playing in switzerland pointy game player i'm with you i love everything about the tyler and a story and i would love a comeback speaking of switzerland did you see who's now available who's that ricard gronberg yes mark crawford goes in to replace Gronberg. Gronberg had told Zurich that he's not coming back next season. So they make the move. So now Gronberg is a free agent.

I think we've always wondered, and teams have talked to him before, if there's going to be a moment when Gronberg comes over to North America in some capacity, in some NHL organization, and you look at some of the players, whether it's Poo Suter, whether it's Dennis Malkin, whether it's Tim Burney with Columbus, like players that he's helped finish up for the NHL, for lack of a, lack of a better term, rejuvenate for, for the NHL. Do you think the NHL is, is any closer to welcoming in Europeans behind the bench?

I think it's going to happen again. I do. I don't know that I can give you a timeline, but I think it is going to happen again. David Pasternak, Boston Bruins. What's happening here? I mentioned a couple of moments ago about Jacob Trickren and what's happening there and what's the timeline. And we've been waiting on this for a while.

What's happening with David Pasternak and the Boston Bruins? January 1st is Sunday. So anybody on a one-year contract can sign an extension as of Sunday. You know, Ethan Baer is a guy I think, I don't know if there's going to be any rush to do it, but I think Vancouver and Ethan Baer, they're going to work something. You know, Washington has a lot of things they got to sort out. I wonder about Dylan Strom. To me, that seems like a player who's found a home,

especially a guy who's bounced around a bit like that. You find a situation where you say, you know what, this works for me. I could see a potential marriage there, although the Capitals have some things they have to figure out. So I always keep an eye on this. You know, the Pasternak thing to me, this screams Philip Forsberg. And J.P. Berry, you know, he's been around a long time, a long time. He represents Pasternak.

And last year, you know, Philip Forsberg, it went past the trade deadline. It went till right before free agency and it got done. And I believed at the end of the day, Philip Forsberg wanted to stay a predator and Nashville wanted him to stay a predator, but there was a dance and David Poyle is a grinder and JP Berry is a grinder. I don't think it was always easy on the player, but I always believed it was going to get done because I think that's what everybody wanted. It just was a path they had to do. The Boston Bruins, look at them historically. They've always had very team-friendly contracts.

From Ray Bork to Zidane O'Chara to Patrice Bergeron to David Crecci to Brad Marchand and even Pasternak's previous one, you know, the players are making a ton of money and they've always fit into a team structure. And Charlie McAvoy, he moved the needle. Do you think McAvoy is a team friendly? That's like 10% of the cap. It's still a team friend. I mean, look, like Charlie McAvoy, you could make an argument that if he'd gone out to the

open market, he might get more. No, but no, what all I'm, all I'm saying about McAvoy is like, I think that McAvoy, he, yeah, he doesn't fit that Ray Bork, like the Ray Bork model was I'm going to take less. And I don't know if there's a favor to the Bruins organization, but it's going to keep everybody else's salary down.

McAvoy moved the needle. There's no question about it. And, you know, Pasternak is going to keep everybody else's salary down. McAvoy moved the needle. There's no question about it. And, you know, Pasternak is going to too. At the end of the day, I think Pasternak wants to be a Bruin. I think the Bruins want Pasternak to be there. And I think the Bruins are playing with a little bit of fire here.

The Bruins have a way that it's always been that the crest on the front is more important than the name on the back. But I think they're going to have to bend here. And I think they will. At the end of the day, I think Pasternak stays and it's going to be a big contract, bigger than we've seen from the Bruins. You know, the thing I really like about him is that, you know,

the more snippets of his personality you get, like when he signed his last deal, people were saying it's a below market deal. And he was like, I don't care. This is more money than I've ever made. I'm good. This year when there was talk about, are they going to let him negotiate? Is he going to negotiate in season? He's like, I don't care. I'm just going to play. They can talk whenever they want to talk. Like this isn't a guy who's bothered about a lot of things. A few years ago when he did the Dunkin' Donuts commercial, you know, he made sure that Kendall Coyne Schofield, who was in the commercial with him, was equally paid. He showed by the way he's played, he's unbothered by all of this. And I think at the end of the day, the Bruins know they're going to have to bend. I think the Bruins have to get into a comfort zone that they're going to have to go to here.

You know, show me the situation where it is. And that's the other thing too. I kind of wonder about like, there's some guys out there, you know, they're going to go somewhere because they want to go closer to home or, or there's a family reason. Look like Dubois having another really good year in Winnipeg. We all know what he's waiting for, right? Unless we get any indication that's changed, he wants to go play in Montreal.

That is rolled out for him there. That's what he wants. Until I'm convinced that someone's going to leave, I want to know what the situation is that is better. What would, say, someone like Pasternak want he doesn't already have I think he likes what he has but I think eventually the Bruins are going to go into unfamiliar territory and I think they're going to have to because quite honestly the guy deserves it. Speaking of the Bruins I want to get to Winter Classic here for a couple of seconds but first

just hearing you talk about Pasternak and his situation and playing a dangerous game by maybe letting it go past trade deadline. And we'll see. Do you feel the same way about Dylan Larkin in Detroit? And by the way, Wednesday night, that Detroit comeback against the Pittsburgh Penguins was just awesome to watch. What an outstanding, I mean, not if you're a Pittsburgh Penguins fan, but if you're just a neutral observer or a fan of the Detroit Red Wings, that was a great welcome back to the NHL after

the holiday break. We need games like that. We do. And the pride of Armor Heights, Jake Wallman scored the winning goal and did the gritty. Does the gritty. Nice little touch. Do you have a thought on Dylan Larkin there? Is that the same fireball that Steve Eisenman's playing with?

What's the surest predictor of future behavior is past behavior. Look who he's negotiating with. Steve Eisenman has a line. You want to stay here? We're not going over the line. That's where I think we are there. It's dangerous. I think Steve Eisenman thinks that Dylan

Larkin wants to be a red wing. And as a result, he kind of says, this is where I'm willing to go and we'll see. We'll see where it goes. This is another one. I believe it's going to work out again. a result he kind of says this is where i'm willing to go and we'll see we'll see where it goes this is another one i believe it's going to work out again if you want to leave you better really be prepared to leave you better see something out there that's real and tangible for you you and i we've both looked into the abyss right oh yeah and we've both looked into the abyss and it was close

that's the way I always think. I look at someone else and I say, is there another situation out there that makes sense for that person? And I look at Dylan Larkin and I say, that guy's a red one. I look at Bo Horvat and I see a guy who's thinking about it.

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Let me get your thoughts on the Winter Classic. Now, a couple of things. We're going to be there. We're going to be in Boston. I'm so looking forward to this. I've never been to Fenway, so the first time. How Merrick is this? The first time I'm at Fenway is for a hockey game. So looking forward to that. Bobby Orr throwing out the first puck. This is going to have a very baseball-slash-hockey theme to it.

Jason Veritek and Tim Wakefield. Oh, my God, did I love Tim Wakefield. Oh, did I love Tim Wakefield. Zidane O'Chara and Johnny Busick will be there as well. Do you think you could hit a knuckleball? I've always wondered that. Okay, I've always wondered two things. What's the fastest pitch I think I could hit?

And could I hit a knuckleball? Like, not just like any knuckleball, but I mean like an R.A. Dickey or a Tim Wakefield like knuckleball. I've never faced a knuckleball, but I mean like an RA Dickey or a Tim Wakefield, like knuckleball. I've never faced a knuckleball, Elliot. I would love to. I stopped playing baseball when I was 16 or 17. I would love to try to hit a knuckleball.

I would love to try. I'm with you. I just want to see what it looks like coming in. I mean, a heater is a heater. I've faced fast pitchers. I'm curious how fast a pitcher I could hit, but knuckleball messes with your head because it just float. Oh, I'm going to geek out Elliot.

If I get a chance to meet Tim Wakefield, a hundred percent fan boy, I'm telling you right now, very much looking forward to this one. Your thoughts on the, uh, the upcoming winter classic. People talk about, uh, the winter classic is boring, but I couldn't disagree more for number one. It's more

for the people who are there and i like the fact that this is going to places where it hasn't been before doesn't qualify for this one i know but i love that you know dallas nashville got their chance to play in one i like an outdoor games going to carolina it's fun i went to like the first 20 of them, Jeff. Did you go to the Snow Globe? Oh, the Snow Globe game. Oh, the Snow Globe game. It was one of the highlights of my career.

I interviewed Crosby on the ice after he scored in the shootout. You're like, ah, this is not going to be. And you get there and people are having a great time and you always have fun. I'm looking forward to Edmonton next year. You know, Battle of Alberta. They're going back.

I'm just, you know, I'm kind of laughing now about the idea of the two of us trying to swing at knuckleballs. I played fast pitch for a couple of years. I actually got a lot better as it went on. Initially, I didn't have a chance. But if you put me in there against, I don't know, name Justin Verlander, like not a chance. There's no chance. I know it. I know it.

I recognize it. I would suspect I couldn't hit a knuckleball either if the best major league players can't do it, but I would love to try it. I just want to see it mess up my brain. I just want to see it and watch it float and just have me whiff, like take like three swings at a time and miss every single one. Like Walt Disney style whiffing. What do you, what do you think, World Juniors, so far?

Well, I like the surprises. I like that the United States lost. I like that Canada lost. Upsets are good. Upsets are great. I'm really happy for those Slovak kids. I'm really happy for the kids from Czechia as well. Conor Bedard has been interesting.

All the things that he didn't do and got criticized for in game one, he turned around and did in game two. And it was a command performance. I'll tell you a Shane Wright and Dylan Gunther though. They looked real good. I know the Bedard is getting the headlines for Canada. I think that Dylan, if you're an Arizona coyotes fan,

very quietly, Dylan Gunther with the hat. Him and Shane Wright look real good together. And game one, you didn't really see Bedard distributing the puck like he can. Didn't see him tracking back the way that he can. Did that in game two. So I think if you're a team that's on the fence about whether we should tank for the first overall pick and try to get it. I hate tanking, but I get it.

I know when you, when you have a player like that and, uh, I'll tell you, I know I mentioned him on a couple of podcasts ago. Adam Sikora looks real good. If you're a Rangers fan, man, Adam Sikora looks real, real nice. I know you look at him and might say, oh, maybe a little bit smallish. I don't care. That guy plays hard and has high skill. I think Rangers got a real, real good one there. So, so far I'm liking it.

Love the upsets. Love the upsets. The dumbest argument I saw all week on social media was the one about the Michigan. So I'm going to contribute to it because that's what everybody really needs. Do you think that the Canadian players had a bet onto who was going to score the Michigan first? That is my conspiracy theory this week. It felt like it when you see two going like that, you know, Hmm, okay, what's going on here? So that was the conspiracy theory that was

being floated out there jeff that maybe they had a bet on who was going to do it first well normally i like to snuggle up on the grass you know with you with whichever goofy conspiracy theories you put forward but i have no idea whether that's true but for the purposes of sports talk radio and this podcast, let's go along with that. The Canadian kids had a bet who could do the Michigan first light team, Canada on fire in Halifax right now. You know, what happens is people just weigh in because they feel they have to when

nobody has anything insightful to add. But someone called me and he said that was his conspiracy theory. So I'm not looking to light anybody on fire, but as a guy who was a teenager himself, I could see that happen. So it isn't because after, I think it was the Bedard attempt, I sent a note to someone in the NHL, because I think you and I have had this conversation before, like the follow through catches the goalie in the mask. Should that be a high sticking penalty? Yeah, it's high sticking. And I sent it to someone in the NHL. And the response I got back was we've always wondered about that. Yes. If you stick someone in the face, it's a penalty. Yes. All I could think about was Darcy Kemper. Like for anyone that says, Oh, come on,

stop being a killjoy. It's a high wraparound. It's the Michigan. It's fun. Kids are loving it. It is fun. I got no problem with it. It's great.

It's, I mean, I think it's kind of played a little bit now. Everybody can do it. You know, my kids done it in games. My kids done it in practice. It's fun. It's cool. Sure.

But if I'm a goaltender and I get that blade, like Dar i i just i just hate it and at that point i say it really isn't worth it and at that point i say like yeah we should start calling penalties on this thing if you hit the goalies mask i got no problem with that i want to wrap up jeff with one last thing go for it Sam Gagne hey after we record this podcast he will play game number 1,000 you go back four years almost loan to the Toronto Marlies three different times he was sent to the American Hockey League once by Philadelphia once by Vancouver and he was loaned to the Marlies so we could play closer

to home. The Oilers had him in Bakersfield for a while in 1920. This is a guy, sixth overall pick 15 years ago, but there was a time that nobody thought he was getting to a thousand. Redefined himself several times, always kept a positive attitude, always kept a positive attitude. I'm sure it wasn't easy. This is a guy who was really loved as a, as a player. You know, we talked earlier on about Tyler Ennis. He could score you a big goal. That was one thing about him is that teams kept them on their rosters because they were hopeful that he would score a big goal for them. Then, you know, he goes to Detroit. He had 31 points last year. It's the most he had in five years because they need positive people while they're going through

a rebuild. Winnipeg had a really tough season. They just wanted guys who would be good to be around. He's got 11 points in 32 games going into it. And he goes there because he's a low salary guy who can score. And he's a good person to be around. He could have been better. He could have basically thrown his career away. I'm not a first liner. Screw this. I'm glad to see it.

How many, and I'm with you on Sam Gagne. He's one of my favorite players. And I think that he makes every team that he's on better. His presence on that Columbus Blue Jackets power play that was like the 1979 Islanders or the 77 Habs was like an automatic. He was a huge part of that, really rejuvenated his career. I've got so many memories of him. I watched him playing in the GTHL with the Toronto Marlies team, and it might have been the best minor hockey team that I've ever seen. It was him and John Tavares and Brendan Smith and Akeem Alou and Justin Vive, Brian Cameron, really, really good.

I think they only lost one game all season. And the one thing that I always want to mention when it comes to Sam Gagne is, remember when he was the king of the shootout? How fast those hands were? Yes. How money in the bank this guy was. And my final thought on Gagne

is just echoing something that you just said, and I couldn't agree with you more. How many other players in Sam Gagne's exact position come out of it with what i like to refer to as donkey lip just have the big pout for the rest of their career i feel like the last five or six years just i hate what's happened to me and what this game has done to me and you never get that from gagne him and tavarisres are minor hockey moguls now, right? Like he's going to give back for years to come. And actually as you record this,

the Marlies tournament is going on right now at Canlons Etobicoke. Is one of your sons playing? No, he's playing in a tournament in Newmarket at NTR, which is where I'm going to leave right now. But you know why? She's going to be so embarrassed that I mentioned this. You know why Canlons Etobicoke is a very special arena to your, uh, your co-host here? Why is that? That's where I met my wife.

Really? It was a co-ed breast cancer fundraiser tournament. And we ended up on the same team sitting beside each other in the dressing room. She'd come back from art college in England and she played professionally with the sheffield shadows which were the uh the women's team to the sheffield steelers and uh we ended up playing on the same squad is that why she always cries when you drive by there she's she's so sad like oh this is where my this is where my life really went wrong and i met that jerk it's wrecked my life can we talk about the podcast idea that we had that has not come to fruition yet? Are we allowed to do this? Brody's on at 4.30, so I got to get going. Jeff and I

have come up with, tried to do a podcast where Jeff interviews my wife and I interviewed Jeff's wife. And we want to put it out there, like what our wives think of us and the job we do. But so far we haven't yet received the buy-in. We haven't got the buy-in yet. How much trouble do you think we're going to get for mentioning this on the pod? I don't know. We're going to find out.

We're going to find out. We're going to find out after this music takes us out. Taking us out, a new indie pop project from Dominic Pelce and Raphael Potvin called New Bleach. The duo adopted the home studio approach taken us out a new indie pop project from dominic pelche and rafael pot fan called new bleach the duo adopted the home studio approach exploring new sonic sounds and create music using analog synth textures organic instrumentation and synthetic beats from their debut record impressions here's new bleach with night on 32 Thoughts, the podcast. Thank you. There's nothing better.

Moon on the rise. Right between your eyes. Mysteries.