32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Flyer Friday

Episode Date: March 10, 2023

Philadelphia fires Chuck Fletcher. Jeff and Elliotte wonder where the Flyers go from here, who might be next to replace Fletcher and why we might have seen so many changes over the last few years (00:00).The guys then get into the sale of the Ottawa Senators (13:20), the upcoming GM Meetings (22:30), the run we’ve seen from Calgary (25:20), a massive injury for Minnesota (31:15), exciting games from Vegas-Tampa (35:00) and Edmonton-Boston (40:00), Buffalo’s tough stretch (47:00), Pittsburgh’s inability to close games (52:30), Nashville’s playoff hopes are sliding (54:45) and Elliotte talks about attending the Alphabet Sports Collective launch party (55:40).And THANK YOU to all the listeners for responding to our trade call to action on the last podcast! (10:20)Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailGET YOUR 32 THOUGHTS MERCH HEREOutro Music - Kim Churchill - Bathed in BlackListen to the full track hereThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: -The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

I would never come up with another idea. Okay, so we have breaking news to kick off the podcast today, as always, presented by GMC and the new Sierra AT4X. Philadelphia Flyers relieving Chuck Fletcher of his president of hockey operations and general manager duties going in on an interim capacity as GM is Daniel Breer. Now, the Philadelphia Flyers did announce as well they will be looking to fill two positions here, president of hockey ops and general manager. Your thoughts on this one before we start to drill down. manager. Your thoughts on this one before we start to drill down. I've had a few people send notes saying, why would they let Chuck Fletcher do the trade deadline and then make the change a week after? And my answer to that is, I don't think that was the plan. I think it was going to happen at the end of the season. I think the organization had decided that that was the way they were going to go, is make a change at the end of the season.

But after the reaction to the deadline, I just believe they decided to move it up. That they said, look, we're going to make this change anyway. Our fans are unhappy. You and I talked about that game in Philadelphia where the Rangers scored in overtime and it looked like Madison Square Garden. Yeah. I just think they said, we're going to move it up now.

We're just going to do it. There's a couple other things I'm wondering here. Number one, I wonder if we're getting close to the end of Dave Scott's leadership of the team too. They have a new individual in there and I understand he met with the staff last week.

I don't know if it was a dinner or something like that, but he did meet with the staff. So I think Dave Scott, whether it's positioned as a retirement or whatever it is, I do think we're going to see that change too at some point. But as you mentioned, what's interesting here is where this is going to go. As you mentioned, what's interesting here is where this is going to go. And Daniel Breer, as interim general manager, is going to oversee the hockey operations. And there's going to be a president of hockey operations too, because Fletcher had both titles. So it'll be interesting to see how it all works, who has the ultimate say on hockey decisions, what the two roles are, what are the clear definitions, and who is going to be involved.

Because I have no doubt that the Flyers phones are going to ring off the hook with people who are interested in this job. And you know what the other thing too, Jeff, is? Tortorella. Like right now, he's the guy. The Flyers put him on their rebuilding letter. It's clear the fan base believes in what he's doing. Like I don't think he's going to be president and coach or general manager and coach. I don't think that's where we're going here.

But it's pretty clear to me that he's got a big say, at least in the roster and who he thinks deserves to be on the roster. I think it's going to be an interesting dance. And, you know, some of the names I wonder about, I've always wondered about Ed Olchek there. The other name I wonder about there is Eric Lindros. I just wonder if there's going to be a bigger role for him.

You see, there's a couple of names that I've wondered about as well. And I want to get back to Lindros here in a second. And I don't even know if he wants to do this. I don't know where he's at in his life, but I've always wondered about someone like Chris Pronger as well, being involved in some capacity there does have management background certainly. there does have you know management background certainly but the eric lindros name is interesting because you know we've wondered about that one uh at various times what's eric lindros's play going to be here does he end up back with a an nhl team and it you know could it be the philadelphia flyers is there any specific reason why we should think more about Lindros than we normally should at this time. Well, the, the reason that I bring it up is

because I've heard that the organization thinks very highly of him. And so that in itself means that you should think about the possibility of it. Like I don't want to handicap it. Yeah. I haven't spoken to Lindros in terms of, Hey, Eric, what do

you want to do or anything like that? I've just been told. And I've heard in multiple places that there are people there who think very highly of him. So I wonder about that. They say interim on Breer. I would be, you can tell me if you think differently, but I would be surprised if he doesn't get one of these jobs. To me, the question is, which one is he going to have? I mean, we've talked about it with Breer. He ran their ECHL team. So he's learned the business side of hockey. People have seen him in like the dinky cold rinks, putting in the effort.

That's true. Like he's not a guy who's taking shortcuts to learn the business. He's going out. He's doing those long, arduous scouting trips. Like I've told you the story about Steve Iserman, about how someone walked into a cold rink in the, in the Czech Republic and in the middle of nowhere, and he was there.

And that's when this person said, oh my God, like he's serious. And I get the same kind of feeling about Breer. So, you know, I think he's going to be a power player here. You know, I always feel for the people who aren't in charge, but their jobs could be affected. Like you never know how much changes they're going to be. Are you perceived as quote unquote, a Fletcher person

or a someone else person? I always worry for those individuals because now it's like something out of their control has happened and your whole existence is kind of thrown into questions. That's really tough. But I think Breer will have an opportunity at both of these jobs. I would be shocked, Jeff. I would be speechless. I would be without speech if he didn't get one of the two of them. But ultimately, I think he's going to get one of the two of them.

And Jeff, we talked about Dave Scott that, you know, whether or not this summer, it's going to be his time. But if you look at the release, there's one thing he says in there. And that is, we know that this will be a multi-year process. You are the one who was pointed out that's not we know that this will be a multi-year process.

You are the one who has pointed out that's not the Philly way and you've had reason to believe that that might be changing. Yes. That is an admission that for the first time, maybe in our lifetimes, this is where Philly is going, that they are doing a full rebuild. And I don't think Breer, assuming he's one of these people, is going to have a problem doing that.

No, especially when you consider how much scouting, as you mentioned, he's been doing over the past couple of seasons as well. He's been the guy, you know, surrounded by Zamboni fumes and bad coffee in order to find the next ones for the Philadelphia Flyers as well. I think one of the questions will always be with the Philadelphia Flyers is how many hands are on the wheel here? And if this is a rebuild, the likes of which Philadelphia has never gone

through before, I'm guessing it's going to be the managers and not that there's ever, you know, you don't exist in a vacuum and make decisions all on your own, but it sounds as if this new general manager coming in will have perhaps more authority than the last one had. And that's one thing that I do want to say about Chuck Fletcher here. I know a lot of Philadelphia Flyers fans right now are doing a celebration dance about this one. I would always hesitate to do so. And in this situation specifically, not every manager has as much autonomy as other general managers have. And I know that Chuck Fletcher will never come out and say that he was interfered with or people made decisions for him over his head. He's an old school managerial type guy.

His father is one of the legends, Cliff Fletcher. That's how he was brought up. I would just like to remind people that things aren't always as they appear. Not that Chuck Fletcher did everything perfectly. Far from it. I get it but i just want to put out there elliot that not all decisions are made in a vacuum by gms in the nhl look he's a stand-up person in a brutal business and results speak and when you're in that chair you probably get credit you don't always deserve but you also

take the blame and maybe you don't always deserve it but you also take the blame and maybe you don't always deserve it, but that comes with the title and the paycheck of that title. As I said, very decent person in a very brutal business. You know, there's one other thing I'd like to say about this. When we did our interview with Bill Guerin, one of the things we talked about, Jeff, was relationship with ownership. And the Flyers are owned by a corporation. I do think the Pride Night, where ownership or representatives for ownership were not informed until warm-up started that Provorov wasn't going to skate, that was what you and I and Garen talked about, don't surprise your bosses. And again, I'm not sure why it all happened this way. I don't know that that is fair to totally pin on Fletcher.

But anyone out there who wants to be a manager or has desire of running any kind of company, you cannot surprise your ownership like that. And from the moment that happened, I think there were going to be consequences. I do. More changes are coming in Philadelphia. As you mentioned the past couple of podcasts, the draft will be an intriguing one for Philly,

both by who they select and what they do with the roster. I'll get you back to your normally scheduled podcast. Thank you, thank you, thank you to everybody who called, who emailed, who DMed, who tweeted responses to a couple of things we put out last podcast. I would like to read something to you. This is from one of the great historians around the Pittsburgh Penguins. This is from Bob Grove. Jeff, heard you and Elliot discussing players traded mid-game to teams they were playing. Panthers were in Montreal November 29th, 1977

to face the Canadians and traded Pierre Laroche to the Habs for Mahavlitch and Peter Lee in the AM and Montreal went on to a 9-1 win that night with Laroche picking up three assists. Laroche told reporters he found out about the trade the night before and couldn't sleep, but Mahavlid showed up at the forum for Montreal's morning skate and was taken upstairs and told about the trade and then joined the Penns' morning skate,

not mid-game, but kind of close. Love the podcast. Bob, thank you so much for that DM. There were a lot of people that DM'd us, got in touch with us about players that were traded mid-game, in and around the game, right before, right after.

And also a lot of people talked about players with the same name playing on the same team. Your thoughts, Elliot? Well, first of all, just a reminder of what great listeners and fans we have. We're very lucky that a number of you guys sent it in. The Maloney's.

Yes. Patterson. There's two Ellis Pattersons in Vancouver. One everybody knows and one a draft pick who's coming. People brought up Mike McKenna. Mike, who works at the Daily Faceoff, told Spittin' Chicklets about being traded Ottawa to Vancouver and what that situation was like. And a couple of fans brought up Doug Waite getting traded from the Rangers to Edmonton

on the day of a game there. And one sent me a story. I don't even know if it's true. And I'm going to say it unchecked because it's a good stories and I want it to be true. You're going to will it into truth. just i'm just gonna will it into truth but apparently uh whoever he was with at the time girlfriend wife i'm not sure what it exactly was was visiting him the day that he was traded and she didn't realize what happened during the day. So she went to the game and weight was on the other bench. And she was like, what? I have no idea if this story is true, but I am willing it into truth.

So I'm just going with it. But thank you all who made the suggestions, who pointed it out because. So good. It's just proof that we're very blessed to have fantastic listeners. We certainly are. And, uh, we thank you for, thank you for all those and keep them coming. And we'll continue to plather them out because let's face it,

someone has to do the work on this podcast and it's not going to be me and Elliot. That's for sure. Let's kick this one off by talking about the Sportico story on the Ottawa Senators. 900 million. Wow. Nine potential suit 900 million. Wow. Nine potential suitors here.

Wow. Your thoughts on all of this, Elliot? I want to acknowledge the people who've done good work on this. Bruce Garriott, the Ottawa side, has done a lot of the top reporting on this, and he should. I mean, it's the team he covers, so you expect it's the team that he'd be on top of. And the Sportico one is interesting because Jeff, if you go back to the board of governors meeting early in the season in New York in October, Gary Bettman and Bill Daley didn't

say anything about Nashville being sold. And then after the meeting was over, Sportico broke that story, which turned out to be 100% true. So it's clear that they have good sources. So you can take all of the information together between those two people and some other stuff that we're hearing, and you can piece together some good information. So nine bids is apparently what we're looking at. Someone said to me, they thought the number was going to be 850 in the opening bids. And they said to me, do you think over or under?

And I said, I'll take the over just because I like to. And Sportico's reporting 900 million around there. Now, there's a couple of things to keep an eye on here. First of all, these are non-binding. This is going to separate the serious from the non-serious. And now they're really going to start doing the true due diligence. Things like visits to Ottawa, things like really pouring over the offers in the book and the books. This is when you really start

doing your work towards who is going to own the team. It's what's real and what's BS. And you figure out both. I said to you earlier in the week, are we going to have a bully offer here? Somebody's stepping up making a huge number just to get everyone's attention and to try to see, can they just get out to a lead that nobody can catch? And we'll find out if that's the case. I think the other thing here too is, and this is what someone said to me today, find out if that's the case. I think the other thing here too is, and this is what someone said to me today, and I think it's very fair. Let's just say the number is 900. Is it really 900 or is it 700 for the team and 200 for the arena? Like are their bids structured like that? Everybody likes to throw out the big numbers. Like for example, if you

follow the NFL, you know, there's all these big quarterback contracts being signed, Geno Smith, but a lot of them aren't fully guaranteed. There's the number the agent throws out there. My player just got a $105 million contract, but in the NFL, most of those contracts don't get guaranteed. Now, there have been some earth-shattering ones right now but most of them aren't guaranteed you have to figure out what's real and what's

inflated and I think that's what we're going to go through right now what are these 900 million dollar ish bids are they team plus arena just team how many of them want the downtown arena how many of them don't you know right now we get the big numbers but i think what the nhl has to figure out right now is what does this all mean is everything that's proposed really there and what are people willing to pay for the team truly i think that's where we're going to go now but you know what there's reason to be excited i don't want to pour cold water on it i just think that you hear a lot of things we don't really know the true context of what they are yet one of the questions i have too is i i don't know what the, I've never been part of something

like this myself. So all I have are questions that I would imagine it would differ from sale to sale, but is there an obligation that they have to take the highest bid and that's it? Or is it more complicated than that? My assumption is it's more complicated than that, but I don't know. Like if someone comes in at 900, as you mentioned. Or a billion. Let's just say someone comes in as a billion. Are they automatically obliged to take that offer because it's the highest number or do they parse through all the other offers as well and say, well, it might not be the highest number, but it hits a level of criteria that the highest offer doesn't hit, which is also important in

this sale. I have no idea what the answer to that is other than it's a curiosity. Well, I think this Jeff, number one, let's just say somebody offered a billion dollars. Okay. The first question is, is this real? These are non-binding right now. So anybody can put down on a piece of paper, $1 billion. Okay. Yeah.

Now what you have to do is you have to figure out where's the money from? Is this real? Now, the way has always been explained to me is you can always say, no, we don't have to take the biggest amount of money. It's a private club. You can say we prefer this individual over this individual. The biggest question though, does become Jeff. And I remember talking about this with the old owners of the Raptors at one point, how much are you willing to leave on the table?

And, you know, I remember talking to some members of the Bitto family about when they got the Raptors, like the other bidders weren't willing to go. I think it was 125 million. Other people weren't willing to go where the Bitto family was willing to go at the time. And that's why they got it. They said, here's the price.

If you want it, you've got to hit the price. And they did. And they got the team. But there have been other situations where a league will say, well, we like this owner a little bit better than this potential owner for whatever reason, but you've got to get close or you've got to hit their number. Like if the difference is $150 million, I don't see people leaving that on the table. The question becomes if the bid is serious and it works and the numbers check out,

if there's another owner who's preferred, how close do they have to get? You know, one of the things too, when we see a sale like this, and I thought the same thing as well about the Pittsburgh Penguin sale to Fenway Sports Group. When you start to see numbers like that, I'm always curious about the trickle-down effect, the if-this-then-that effect for other franchises. And also, when you start to see numbers like this, and I know that the NHL is a club, and I know how it works at the ownership level and what being part of this club affords you

outside of just the hockey revenue associated. But when you start to see numbers like this, does it start to shake loose other teams that might've been on the fence about selling? Essentially what I'm saying is when you start to get into these numbers that are approaching a billion dollars, Elliot, does that give other organizations room to pause and say, well, we weren't planning on selling, but. A hundred percent. I actually think that there's a case of that in the NHL right now.

I do. I can't prove it, but I believe that there's a case like that right now. Are you going to talk it into existence like you did? The other one I could talk into existence. Talk it into truth. This one I can't yet, but I do believe there's a case like that. I don't want to talk about expansion

because we just talked about it on the podcast last time. Yep. And I'm sure it'll come up at the GM meetings next week when Bettman and Daly talk to the media. But you know what wasn't, like in all these expansion rumors this week, you know, it wasn't brought up.

What's the fee? Vegas was 500. Seattle was 650. Yeah. What do you think the fee is now? I don't know. You start to see the penguins go for 900 plus your start.

But the other thing that I think feathers an expansion fee is how successful Seattle and Vegas have been. Yeah, I mean, 100%. And as we talked about last time, at the NHL and AHL levels, when your development team is not a loss leader, but a profit center as well, we're well past what Seattle paid. Yes. It's not staying at 650. Logic says it's at least 800, but if it happens. But that's the big question here too.

So I think now we're going to start to see everybody start to sign up for those flight tracking websites and figuring out which private planes are landing at Ottawa airport. Interesting. Coming out of COVID, there are somehow more buyers than sellers right now in pro sports and maybe specifically hockey as well. You mentioned the GM's meetings and those are on the horizon next week in Florida. Any idea, like, I don't know that an official agenda has been drawn up yet.

I haven't seen it yet. For that, but do you have any idea what might be discussed here? I definitely think the sitting out of games at the deadline is going to be a conversation. The trade related reasons? I definitely think that that's going to be a question.

I've heard the length of the exhibition season is something that has come up. You know, earlier this year we talked about, you know, potentially going to an 84 game season. I'm not convinced that, I mean, again, we'll find out next week. you know earlier this year we talked about you know potentially going to an 84 game season i'm not convinced that i mean again we'll find out next week i'm not convinced that the commissioner wants to have that conversation with the players association so it might just be shortening of the exhibition season and then we'll see you know i think there's always a question about what are

the officiating points of emphasis going into the playoffs. I also believe Jeff, and I didn't put this in my notes, but someone sent me a note about it after he thinks that one of the conversations is going to be about players needing to fight after clean hits. And he said that he believes that some general managers want the instigator called more often in that situation. They already have that rule. Yes. That is sitting there. And I think people have pointed out before, well, you already have what's supposed to be a deterrent. Why not use it more?

I've heard that started to come up a bit more. That's an interesting one. It's come up before though. I mean, this isn't anything new. No, it's not. But I just heard like, you know, sometimes you go into these meetings and you think something's a really hot topic or enough people are talking

about it and then it gets into the room and it just goes nowhere. Yeah. Like you really have no idea where sometimes these things are going to go. I have heard that this is coming up again and it'll be interesting to see how much traction it gets.

You know, the other thing, thing Jeff I really think is coming up Is Arizona but I'm not Convinced that's a GM issue I think That's a board of governors issue if the Other owners are particularly Upset about it but I'll say This I've had a couple of GMs who tell me That their owners are not

Happy about it but again it's one of Those things you hear grumbling But when the moment of truth comes, it goes nowhere. So we'll see. You know what that'll probably be? A Marty Walsh NHLPA issue. I'll tell you this. I know that there's some agents and players who do feel very strongly about that. We'll see where it goes. Listen to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime. Elliot, the Calgary Flames' next opponent

is the Anaheim Ducks. They'll face off against them on Friday or today, depending on when you're listening to this podcast. And what an interesting week it's already been for the Calgary Flames. A fascinating game on Monday against the Dallas Stars, where they almost gave it away. Just handed it to the Dallas Stars.

Rupe Hinn scores that shorthanded goal to make it 4-3. And we all think, uh-oh, we've seen this movie before. The final couple of seconds will come off the clock and the Flames win a wild one in Dallas, Texas tonight. They let 2-0 and 4-2 leads

slip away, but they didn't let the game get away. Tyler Toffoli scores at 19-53 of the third period to break a 4-4 tie and the Flames pick up two very important points. And then the next night into Minnesota,

tough building, tough team, fast skating team. We know what Bulgarian squads are all about. And they win 1-0. Victory of the Stars last night. Tyler Foley picks it up at center. Skates it up the left-wing side. Flies slowly to the net. To Foley.

Shoots. And Gustafsson pinches his pads together. No! It goes in! It went in! The Flames have won! Tyler Toffoli finds the five hole of Philip Gustafson. And for a second straight night, he is the hero.

The Flames defeat the Wild. one to nothing in the shootout you feel so good for the person and the player jacob markstrom do you have a thought on what we've seen so far this week out of the calgary flames who are kind of making it interesting in the west here elliot i think it's amazing that when we left the building on Saturday night after they lost at home to Minnesota. That was bad. We thought they were done. Our camera people and the director, they got

an unbelievable shot of that flames bench at the end of the game, like just panning from player to player. And they, they all looked like Matthew Modine at the end of full metal jacket with the, with the-yard stare. We walked out of there, and you know that after our show on Saturday night, the group of us just go to have a beer before we go home. We were all just sitting there saying, that's all for the flames.

Shows you how much we know and how quick things can change. They get two very impressive victories, and they're back right there now the math isn't their friend Winnipeg still controls the math and again I hesitate to say that Markstrom is fixed and it's all over he's had a great week and you hope for his sake that he's back on track but it's only been a week but you know I was thinking about it, Jeff, uh, you've had a couple of children with Claire and, and I've had one with a staff and you, sometimes you forget how much, like when your wife is expecting, obviously she's the person who's going through a lot more. Nobody's even claiming it's close, but you know what it can do to your head and you know you're you're worried about your partner you're you know you see how much like childbirth and and preparing to have a child

can take out of her and you know everything you go through i just can't help but wonder you know like just the fact that you know the baby's here now and as far as we know thankfully everything's healthy it just takes a load off you. I think sometimes we do forget that these kinds of things can really affect your approach to quote unquote your job. And, you know, I just can't help but wonder if the timing of the baby arriving and now you can just enjoy the joy of the whole fatherhood experience. It's like just a whole world coming off your shoulders and you can go back to being yourself.

And it's just a hypothesis. I don't necessarily think it's the truth, but I just can't help it. Is that the timing that, you know, the worrying and the anticipation it's over. And now all of a sudden here you are, you can enjoy life again. And I just can't help but wonder if the timing is, is more than coincidental. I don't know. I have no idea. All I know is it's been a really enjoyable week to watch some good goaltending from the

Calgary flames and specifically that one nothing win, uh, over the Minnesota wild on, on, on Tuesday night. I hope that he's back. Like you hate to see someone plummet from runner up for the Vesna trophy to where is he on the list here? Oh no. Keep going down. Keep going down.

Keep going down. I hope Jacob Markstrom is back. Whatever the reason is. I don't care. I'm just happy. He's back. I'm happy that his family's healthy and I want to see more great goaltending out of Jacob Markstrom. I think Jeff will get

some mild disagreement in Winnipeg, but I'm happy to see a playoff race in the West. Like the East, the East looks like it's going to go down and be incredible in the last couple of weeks. I think that we're all looking at

the race there and some of the matchups and the head-to-head games that some of these teams play each other. And it's excellent. It's the most fun. And I really thought after Nashville sold off and Calgary lost on Saturday, it was over. And, you know, the Jets played pretty well on Wednesday. They lost the game to Minnesota, but they played really well. But all of a sudden, Calgary's there, although their math isn't as good as Winnipeg. Winnipeg has the better math. And out of nowhere, Nashville is around there with games in hand. Now, I think it's a big challenge, but Nashville has good math, at least. they can look at it and say we have good math if we take care of business we're there and I can't imagine who would have thought that would be the case

a week ago okay Elliot as you mentioned coming off that loss against the Calgary Flames on Tuesday big win by the Minnesota Wild on Wednesday against the Winnipeg Jets but flashpoint issue Kirill Kaprizov and Loganley across the blue line then got the caprizoff who got tackled by stanley and he was crunched awkwardly to the ice oh boy caprizoff up very slowly he tries to rejoin the play as stanley shoots one flurry to save it's caprizoff but he's got nothing left in the tank tom partially because he's hobbled he stretched out really stanley fell right on top of him and you can see the uh stretching out of the legs of the but he's got nothing left in the tank, Tom, partially because he's hobbled. He stretched out. Stanley fell right on top of him.

You can see the stretching out of the legs of the 97 from Minnesota. Okay, the update on Kroker. Pries off. Elliott, it is three to four weeks lower body injury. Not good for the Minnesota Wild, but... Could have been a lot worse. Could have been worse. Could have been worse, man. Could have been worse.

I just think everybody here agrees that nobody wanted to see this guy out for the playoffs or into the playoffs or anywhere close to the playoffs, anything like that. And I think we're hoping that it's closer to the three weeks, but nobody wants to see a player injured, especially a player who can really determine a playoff series like he can at this time of year i looked at that play and said logan stanley's a large man carol caprizov is a smaller but still very strong man hockey is a fast game where bodies end up in weird positions case in point logan stanley on carol caprizov when i, to me, I didn't think it was a dirty play.

I thought it was like an unfortunate accident. I thought Kaprizov was trying to do a reverse hit, which I have no problem with, and Stanley just being so much bigger than him just folded onto him, and it was a bad outcome. I didn't think it was a dirty play do you disagree with me no not at all i just thought it was an awkward play but you know bodies moving skates ice hockey it's kind of how i looked at it i didn't see logan stanley like he was you know running

a caprizoff and you know he was trying to like jump on his back and flatten him or turn him into a, you know, Russian accordion. I didn't see that in that play at all. I'm with you. I don't like seeing players, like I don't like seeing anybody get hurt. I really don't like seeing players like Kaprizov get these injuries right before the playoffs. Like the same thing with O'Reilly in Toronto. The playoffs are hard enough. I like to see everybody start from the beginning

and then whatever happens, happens. So I really didn't like this at all. Now, I would like to say, I'm sure the Wild don't feel as charitable about this as you and I do, obviously. We don't have Minnesota eyes. Is that what you're saying, Elliot? We don't have Minnesota eyes?

I can understand the frustration. Whether they feel that Stanley intentionally put all his weight on him or however, they feel that was not clean. I don't expect the Wild to be satisfied. Put it that way. I thought they handled the offside call the other night really well. Like, Everson saying. Well, we just looked at it. We think it's offside. Okay. Yeah. It's just so unpredictable, right? You're not 100%, but he definitely released it before it got over the blue line by an inch, you know? So, yeah, hard to argue that.

I don't think they feel anywhere near as good about this one. I just hope it's a fast recovery. Like with a sport doesn't need this. You don't need players like this out. It's not good for anybody. Okay, Elliot, a few things from Thursday night and kind of wild around the NHL and, you know,

we cross our fingers and hope that maybe one of the two possible Stanley Cup previews ends up being a Stanley Cup final. I also want to talk about the Dallas Stars putting up a 10 spot on the Buffalo Sabres and the Islanders with yet another comeback against the Pittsburgh Penguins. But let's start with what might've been the game

of the night. Certainly it featured the pass of the night and we'll get the kuchar off in point here wait a second you would put tampa bay vegas ahead of edmonton boston it was a more entertaining game you think so eh yeah i really do i mean listen edmonton and edmonton and boston had like jeff why do you hate canada i'm putting the american america don't you know elliot that's going to be my new catchphrase why do you hate Canada? I'm putting the American America. Don't you know, Elliot, that's going to be my new catchphrase. Why do you hate Canada, Jeff? I don't know.

Why do you hate Tampa and Vegas so much, Elliot? Why do you hate America? You're such a Canadian. Why do you hate America? I was just thinking that Boston being the number one team in the league and blowing a 2-0 lead and and the heart trophy winner would take priority. But, you know,

I know you're trying to score bonus points with Gary Lawless. You're really concerned about what he thinks about you. So you're voting Vegas Tampa first. And Dave Randolph. I want Dave to be warm to me too. I want all my boys.

I can understand that. Randolph's opinion is very important. I get that. I get that. Okay, fine. We'll park that one. That was a great game too.

And I know you wanted to talk about the Kucherov pass on the tying goal. It was a brilliant play. And the thing that really stands out about it was that Point, who shot and scored. Kucherov, Sargachev, Kucherov, and from Point, he scores! And this game is tied! The only guy in the building who wasn't faked out by what Kucherov did was the guy who scored the goal, and that was point. I'm watching it. I bit.

Everyone on the ice, they bit. The fans bit. Jonathan Quick, who's been in the NHL forever, has won Stanley Cups, Conspite Trophies, all of it. He bit. This is brilliant execution. Guess who's right in the middle of it? Nikita Kucherov.

After firing about four chances, look where Jonathan Quick is. That's the key here. Because Kucherov has pulled the trigger so many times. To me, it's the most impressive pass I've seen all season long. It's the game-tying goal right at the end, the second of the night for Braden Point. And you're right. The fact that Braden Point was there probably snickering, thinking everybody's biting here and I know what's coming. Like, you know, I've talked about this before. Like one of the things I'd love to be able to do in life is get inside someone else's head, even for a split

second. I would love to have been in in Braden points head at that moment and just know what it feels like to have everybody around you bite on something and be the only one in the ring that knows you're getting that pass. It was a thing of beauty. It was an absolute gorgeous moment in that game. And that game was rough too. Like if there's seven games of that coming up in June, Vegas and Tampa, sign me up Frej,

because that really was a thing of hockey beauty. Yeah, fantastic. And I'd be very happy with Vegas and Tampa in June. Like I know some people are like Vegas is too hot in June. Those are losers. I can go to Vegas anytime and I can deal with

the heat. There's this thing called pools. You know, you can, you can deal with that that it was a mean game mean mean game you know i wonder how many texts nick haig had after the game from people who said thanks for going after cory perry just trying to get one past jonathan quick of the biggest golden knights and now we got it going on again along the sideboards maroon's in the middle but but Perry's in there as well. Gloves come off, and Perry tackled out by Haig, and Bogosian's trying to pull Haig off of Perry.

Maroon is trying to get in there as well, but linesmen have their hands full here. You know, this is an interesting time for vegas because fred brathwaite had to back up in the american hockey league on wednesday night because of they have another injury aiden hill and it's a good thing they went out and got jonathan quick because they need a guy right now and that's a massive win for quick you know they're up they blow the lead and then they win in overtime it's a massive win for quick great game great game dramatic goal to the shot on vasilevsky by eichel just sort of trickles through him a little bit and alec martinez dives to

poke it over the red line jack eichel left circle he's open, shoots! It's in! It got past Vasilevsky, I don't know, Martinez jabbed it in, so the Golden Knights get away with two obvious penalties. The game had everything. Now, I ain't saying that Edmonton-Boston wasn't good, because it wasn't well. No, I think you are, we've already established you hate Canada. Okay, right, very good.

America, I'm coming, America coming america please please hold the spot for me somewhere three two is the final uh the edmonton oilers come roaring back nice to see evan bouchard score uh it had been was like 46 or 47 games since he had scored a goal but the thing that really stood out and and has in the short time that matthias Ekholm has been there with the Edmonton Oilers Fridge, that pair of Ekholm and Bouchard looks downright nasty. That is a great pairing that they've found there. You know what, Jeff? I need you to help me with one thing, though.

I couldn't tell listening to Jack Michaels at the end of the game if the Oilers won. Running out of time. Kane looking to protect. Ceiling. Shooting off the side of the game if the Oilers won. Running out of time. Kane looking to protect. Ceiling shooting off the side of the net. Edmonton's done it. The Oilers have come into Boston and beaten the Bruins 3-2. No, no, I'm serious.

I couldn't tell. You think the Oilers won because I thought there was a bit of gray area in Jack Michaels' call. The Oilers have come into Boston and beaten the Bruins 3-2. No, when the Oilers win, there is never a gray area in Jack Michaels' call. He reflected the mood of the Edmonton Oilers and their fans perfectly, as Jack always does. Now, I'm with you.

I thought the Bouchard-Eckholm pair looked really good. And, you know, I think that there's a reason they got Eckholm and we can talk about that a bit more in a second. One of the reasons they got Eckholm was because they thought he was a better fit for what they needed. And number two was they wanted him to be around Bouchard. And obviously on Thursday night, you saw kind of what they envisioned and what they hoped for but you know if you would have told me the way that game started that boston would have lost

that game i never would have believed you no you know the first goal was kind of ugly they're up to nothing skinner battles i give that kid a lot of credit. The first goal was ugly. They're down 2-0. He really battled. The wildest thing for me, Jeff, was the first Edmonton goal, Boston turnover at the blue line, four on one. I mean, how many times have you seen that against the Bruins this year? The second Edmonton goal, complete mix-up by the Bruins at their own line. Between Bergeron and McAvoy. You won't see that often. Devin Shore trying to take advantage.

Centering pass, one-timer score! And this game is tied! And it's Ryan McLeod! Like they create a disaster for themselves, which you haven't seen. That was the top line, by the way. Yes, you haven't seen that all year. You haven't seen. That was the top line, by the way. Yes, you haven't seen that all year. You haven't seen that in five years.

The Bruins walked themselves kind of into two goals against, which they're so disciplined and they've been so good. Guy was looking at these goals going, like who put a hex on them? Like what happened to these guys tonight? Here's the thing about the Boston Bruins in the third period.

You know who comes back on the Boston Bruins in the third period. You know who comes back on the Boston Bruins in the third period when they have a lead? Nobody. Nobody. Nobody does. And Edmonton did on Thursday night. And then the winning goal by Nurse was weird. Like I'm still not really sure what happened

on that play. But the unbelievable thing too is, is that nevermind the goals, but Derek Ryan running into Connor McDavid. And I'm sitting there saying what deity has decided that they're going to start fooling around with hockey tonight. It was the most bizarro world game.

I think I've seen this year and, you know, thankfully McDavid was okay. He played the last couple of minutes. They looked fine, but Derek riot, who's really had an incredible career arc doesn't play until he's 29. Yeah. And as successful as he's been, he's probably sitting there while McDavid's like down saying, what witness protection program am I going into?

Like what city do you think they're going to put me in? And what do you think my alias is going to be? Yeah. What's the farthest city away from edmonton in the world geographically he's like homer simpson wearing wpp on one of his hats or shirts uh you have a quick thought on that calm before you move on to another crazy game so you know there was a lot of reporting last week about how the oilers almost made a deal with chickard and they pivoted and went to Ekholm. And you know, I tried to look into this and I wrote a little bit about it on, on Wednesday and Thursday.

I don't think the Chikrin deal was that close. I think they did look into it. I know some people, uh, they felt that maybe the deal fell apart because Arizona tried to change the terms at the end. I really got some pushback on that from multiple people with different perspectives. They said there was some haggling over the draft picks, but it wasn't anything that scuttled the deal. I just think that Ken Holland, and I will

say this about the Oilers. I think the Oilers have a lot of cooks there. A lot of people who have different opinions in the organization about what they should do. I think at the end of the day, Ken Holland was more comfortable with Ekholm over Chikrin. And I don't think it was anything negative towards Chikrin. I think he was just more comfortable with Ekholm over Chikrin because he felt that Ekholm's defensive game was a better fit for what they needed. And I think this is a big thing. I've had these conversations with Ken Holland over the years.

I think he's very big on health history. He believes if you're going to bring in a player, especially a player with term, it's got to be someone who has a decent health history. You know, hockey's hockey, as you said, Jeff, people get hurt. Look at Logan Stanley and Kaprizov, like just a fluke play. And sometimes that happens.

But if you look at Chikrin, he's been a guy who's been hurt. And you look at Ekholm, I think he's missed 20 games in the last nine years. And I think Ken Holland is big into that. And I think at the end, that's a major reason he made the choice is Ekholm's health versus Chikrin's history of health and that's why he did what he did and the other stuff like he's a great defensive player he skates the puck out of trouble he gets the puck out of your zone he

looks like he's a really good fit for Bouchard. All of that stuff is big too, but I really do think that in the Ekholm-Chikorin decision they had to make, Ekholm's history of health was a major factor. Now, I hope I haven't jinxed it, but I do think that was a big part of it. Fun game, those two. Vegas and Tampa, Edmonton and Boston. There was another interesting game

that's going to get a lot of headlines. It was a tilted rink game. We don't often see games where 14 goals are scored, but there was Dallas and Buffalo on Thursday. 10-4 is the final score. Jamie Benn with a goal and two assists. Jason Robertson with three assists. Mason Marchment with one and two,

the Donoff with one and two. Boy, Eric Comrie left in the entire game. He surrenders 10 goals. The Buffalo Sabres have now lost five of their last six games, Elliot. And you know what the conversation is going to be around Sabre land. And that is the Sabres were close. Why didn't Kevin Adams do more at trade deadline? I know there was the stick to your guns.

Yes. We're building the, but they were so close and listen, they could still turn things around, but games like this, where you just get completely blown out the stretch that they're on right now, it's all trending down and it's bad, bad, bad. And you know, the conversation is going to be,

why didn't Kevin Adams look for reinforcements? Yeah, I'm a big Herm Edwards, you play to win the game guy. And if I was a player on the Sabres, you know, I wouldn't necessarily like it I'm backing Adams on this one I am I think there are times you take your leap and there are times you don't and you know he made some smaller ads the Buffalo Sabres have walked themselves into trouble over the last few years by making the kinds of moves that set them back. I think as tough as it is, Gord Stelic had one of the great sayings,

if you're going to stink, stink on the road. Yep. And a 10-4 loss at home is really, really, really bad and really hard to handle, but I'm with Kevin Adams on this one. He has a long-term vision and I understand why he did what he did. I felt bad for Comrie. I mean, I remember years ago, I was just starting out and I want to say the game was in Milwaukee and it was a Blue Jays game. Cito Gaston was managing and I think he left David Wells in, in a game in Milwaukee as

a starting pitcher to give up like 13 runs. And I remember cause Cito talked about this once when I was still young and learning and he talked about this whole situation. I remember being there and he walked out to the mound and he said to David Wells, my bullpen is beaten up. Like those guys are exhausted.

They've been pitching a lot lately. I know you don't have it today, but I need you to eat this. And he did, like Wells did. Because Gaston and Wells, they didn't always have a great relationship. There was a game where like Gaston took Wells out of a game and Wells like threw the ball away instead of giving it to Gaston and Gaston lost it on him. He thought that was disrespectful. Well, it was. He was right.

He was right. But I remember just being in the dugout when Gaston talked about Wells that day saying, look, I should take you out. I just don't have anybody. Can you eat this for us? And Wells did. And he always talked about no matter whatever went wrong with David Wells, he always remembered that night that he took one for the team. You know, the other thing I'm saying, Jeff, is that the shots are 49-29

and it's only 5-2 after two. It's not like Comrie's getting embarrassed. It's 5-2 and he's faced 34 shots after two it's not like comry's getting embarrassed it's five two and he's faced 34 shots after two periods right yeah the five spot in the third though man yes but the thing is it's five three and they score two and 29 seconds with just over 10 minutes left and the other thing too is granado's probably sitting there and saying you know Lukanen's been sitting there for two and a half hours Anderson's only playing one game a week I probably don't want to put him in because if he gets hurt then you're you're really screwed up yeah so I just hope somebody went to Comrie after that game and said just like like Gaston Wells, you know, we know you took one for the team tonight.

That one, your GAA and your save percentage take a while to come back from that one. Yeah. You know, even though you made 39 saves. I think it'd be different if he had like arbitration rights this summer, but he signed to a two-year contract, so he's fine. Oh no, I've got arbitration this summer.

I'm pulling myself out of the game. But boy, I felt terrible for Comrie and I was simply saying, geez, you know, he's really taking one for the team tonight. That's a tough pill to swallow. Yeah. Like I get it. Like I, I understand what you're saying about

the long-term vision. I'm putting myself in the seat of a Buffalo Sabres fan here. Yeah yeah and i'm saying man how many times have we been false started and here we are we're close and now it looks like it's frittering away again i get it from kevin adams point of view i get it from kevin and i get it from the buffalo sabers fans point of view too and get it from Kevin, and I get it from the Buffalo Sabres fans' point of view, too. And now Brock Nelson a breakaway. Nelson in alone on suit.

He scores! Oh, Nelly! Brock's got an overtime winner! And the Islanders have their first season sweep ever of the Pittsburgh Penguins in this, their 50th anniversary season. Elliot, one more game I want to mention here because it's a movie that we've seen before. And we've seen it a couple of times this season specifically. The Pittsburgh Penguins blow a lead against

the New York Islanders. Unbelievable this year. Yeah, it looks like they're tucked away. It's 3-1 heading into the third. And then Hudson Fashing scores, this time with his stick, by the way. I should add on a really nice play with a little give and go with Casey Zizekas. Andrews Lee scores, sending it to overtime.

And Brock Nelson with the lovely assist, the poke check assist from Milia Sorokin. And that's all she wrote. The Pittsburgh Penguins do pick up a point, but they squander two, losing another lead to the New York Islanders who sting them. I honestly can't believe the Islanders. The Islanders cannot stand prosperity. They're at their best when something bad is happening. Barzell out.

Oh, okay. We'll get hot. Losing three to one to Pittsburgh. They've won their best when something bad is happening. Barzell out. Oh, okay. We'll get hot. Losing three to one to Pittsburgh. They've won six games without them. No big deal. We're going to win. They're fine. It's really incredible.

It really is. Sorokin gets an assist on the game winning goal. Yeah, man. That East races, it's absolutely wild. It is like the Islanders should just start this season with something bad happening to them and they'll go 50, you know, like that's just the way they are.

Uh, before the season next year, before everyone gets on the ice, I have to have a black cat walk in front of the dressing room. I'll tell you, we just talked about the Buffalo Sabres. You know who the main beneficiary is of the Buffalo Sabres plummeting like this? The Pittsburgh Penguins.

Like whenever a team like this falls, like the Sabres have, you look at, okay, which team is enjoying this and which team is being helped by this? The Pittsburgh Penguins. They squandered the two points. They still pick up one. The Buffalo Sabres lose yet again. I think Jeff, you know, we got to mention nashville too yeah all of a sudden they had really good math right they were kind of in there that's one you can't have on thursday night ivan prosvitov the 24 year old from moscow russia called up this morning from

hl tucson making his season debut for the Coyotes and playing in his seventh career NHL game. Has just picked up his first career NHL victory. 40 shots against. I know they play hard. We've talked a lot about the Coyotes and Andre Tournier and these guys that play hard. And it's like an Agatha Christie novel around trade deadline time.

The lights flicker and another character disappears from the lineup. I get it. That team plays really hard. But man, you're the Preds and you're getting back in the hunt. You need that one, don't you? You got to have that one. Okay, Elliot, before we wrap up the podcast today, the Alphabet Sports Collective.

You went to the launch party in downtown Toronto at the Drake. This is, you know, Bain Pettinger, Brock McGillis as well. It sounds like it was an incredible night. Like we'll talk plenty, I would imagine, over the course of from here till forever about Alphabet Sports Collective. But tell us about the launch party. It was a great event. And, you know, the one thing that I really believe is that everybody should tell their

own stories. I don't want to tell anyone's story that they're not comfortable sharing. So I leave it to everyone to do that in a way that makes them comfortable. But I just want to say this, I, you know, really, you know, I've known Pierre Lebrun for a long time.

We've been friends for almost 30 years. We're competitors, and that's not always easy, but we're also good friends. And it was an emotional night for Pierre, and I was really proud of him, and I was really proud for him. And it's his story to tell, but I just wanted to say that. Elliot, well said taking us out

today is an artist our producer met at toronto international busker fest in 2012 one of the biggest street performer festivals in north america kim churchill has released 11 records and many of them were recorded in different countries, from Berlin to Vancouver Island to parts of the UK. Kim Churchill finds his latest album being recorded at his home in the Blue Mountains of Australia. From his 2013 album Details of Distance, here's Kim Churchill with Bathed in Black on 32 Thoughts, the podcast.

One day when I was feeling down podcast. was clear And those beautiful colors seemed to contrast my fear Walking down a French Polynesian path I put my head in the clouds and left my heart on the ground to dry Don't pity what's been bathed in black

Can be six feet down in the underground From the sky with the birds bright sound Look into your mind and hope to find a home No, six feet down in the underground From the sky with the birds bright sound Look into your mind and hope to find a home