32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Forsberg, Jets, Hawks & Leafs
Episode Date: February 25, 2022A week filled with surprises. Jeff and Elliotte start the podcast off by discussing the situation in Ukraine (00:01), how North American players in the KHL are handling the conflict, and what events i...n Russia we’ll see cancelled as the country continues their invasion of Ukraine.The guys also provide an update on the Chicago’s GM search (6:00), Elliotte gushes over Zdeno Chára (11:30), they wonder what Nashville will do with Filip Forsberg (15:40), how the Winnipeg Jets could approach the rest of the season (25:25), Elliotte tells us about his chat with Maple Leafs' prospect Rodion Amirov (31:40), what Kyle Dubas and the Leafs might do with Jake Muzzin on LTIR (37:10), the Flames hiring Bob Murray as a scout (45:00), and they take your questions to wrap up the podcast (48:00).Full transcript for the episode can be found here by Medha MonjauryNew Podcast Intro Music by Jane’s Party. Thank you to Zach, Tom, Devon and Jeff for composing the intro music this season.You can find their full discography on SpotifyMusic Outro: Straytones - Fire-Fire!Listen to their latest album “Magic Green River Swimmin’ & Stunning Tarzanka Experience” on SpotifyThis podcast is produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman.Audio Credits: 102.5 The Game, NBC Sports California and Sportsnet.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.
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Welcome once again to 32 Thoughts to Podcast
presented by the all-new GMC AT4 lineup.
Elliot, on Wednesday evening, we all watched the invasion of Ukraine.
And listen, although it feels trivial to talk about hockey at a time like this
under this umbrella, you know, hockey is affected as well.
But primarily our thoughts are with the people of Ukraine,
full stop. The reaction in the hockey community, and there are still questions about what happens with world championships next year, supposed to be hosted in St. Petersburg. The world juniors,
the U-20, supposed to be hosted in Russia next year as well. Questions about what to do with
Russian hockey players internationally, Belarusian hockey players internationally as well.
I know it is very early.
It's only a couple of days now since the invasion,
but what is the reaction from the hockey world being?
I think that it's pretty much the way everybody has reacted.
You're horrified to see it.
Nobody wants to see that.
I think we're all wondering what the punishments are going to be.
The soccer is going to be moved out of there.
The UEFA Champions Cup.
Some countries have asked to have their qualifying matches.
There's two World Cup qualifying matches potentially to be held there.
The countries that could play them are saying they shouldn't have to play there.
You know, hockey's got two tournaments coming up there,
the World Juniors next year and the World Championships in 2023.
The IIHF is going to be under a lot of pressure to take them out of there.
And the thing that's kind of the big deal here is that Rene Fizel,
who until recently was the president of the IIHF,
he was very tight with Russia.
And, you know, the feeling is that if he was still in command, there would be no
chance that this would be moved.
Now with Luke Tardif there, you know, we'll see what happens, but he's going to
be under a lot of pressure.
But in the short term, Jeff, they've got games to be played there.
In the KHL.
In the KHL.
So what happened was right at the time of the olympics they announced
when the olympics were over they were going to cancel the rest of the regular season and go right
to the playoffs and at the time the statement said it was due to covid but behind the scenes
everybody wondered was it because of this the people who run hockey in Russia, they're definitely members of the inner circle.
They have a lot of connections to the very top of government. And people wondered, do they know
something? And it looks like they sure did. So they're going to go to top eight in each conference.
One team, Jokarit, which is in Finland, is pulling out because their arena is russia owned and i went
through the rosters on thursday i counted 28 north americans 23 canadians and five u.s born players
who are on these rosters and you know i i reached out just privately and said you know does you know
does anybody want to say anything about this? How does everybody
feel? Basically what reporters do. And everybody was nice about it, but, you know, they said,
you know, I'm not really comfortable talking about it. And, you know, some agents at least
asked their clients. I had other agents who said, look, I'm not even going to ask my clients.
There were, I think, 1800,800 people there arrested on Thursday
for protesting the invasion.
So, you know, you're trying to protect your client.
You don't want any challenge there.
But there were two players who did agree to speak to me.
You know, one was by phone, one was by text.
And the one by phone just was a quick conversation.
It was, I'm considering coming back, but I haven't made a decision.
And the other texted that he's going to play.
And, you know, the one thing he just wanted to tell everybody was that
they were basically told if they don't play, they lose the money that's owed to them.
And I double-checked that.
Not that I really felt I needed to double-check,
because that's kind of the way that hockey's been there. But I double-checked,, not that I really felt I needed to double-check because that's kind of the way that hockey's been there,
but I double-checked and I was told that was true.
And, you know, he simply said to me, it's about providing for the families.
And, you know, he hopes that people understand that,
that if they quit, they don't get paid
and their families are depending on that money.
It's a really difficult challenge.
It's a hard thing, but there are people who need the money financially for their families.
And it sounds like at least some of them are going to make the decision to play for that reason.
And I get it.
I mean, I do.
When you're making a financial decision for your family, these are hard choices.
Sometimes you have to do things that maybe you don't like to do or don't feel are right to do.
But it's the reality that you have to do it.
And in the NHL, Elliot, Thursday night at MSG,
the Washington Capitals faced off against the
New York Rangers.
As expected, Alexander Ovechkin was booed by
the Rangers fans quite soundly.
Ovechkin hasn't spoken yet, but we believe he
will speak.
We all understand the sensitivities around all this and
I don't think that oveshkin wants to rush into any situation where he missteps or says something that
will affect him or his family the next thing we wait for now is oveshkin who has been strongly
pro-Putin for a number of years to speak. We shall wait. And to all the victims in Ukraine,
we offer both our sympathy and our support. With that, we'll begin. Welcome to 32 Thoughts,
the podcast. Okay, Elliot, so here's my challenge. Every podcast I'm obliged, and perhaps contractually,
to ask you what's happening with the Chicago Blackhawks general manager search.
But it's a challenge making it sound different.
So let me mix it up a little bit.
Yo, Elliot, Blackhawks GM search, where we at?
You like that?
That's very good.
So the Blackhawks released an update at about 6 o'clock Eastern time on Thursday.
I don't even know what day it is, Jeff.
Thursday.
Thursday.
Where they announced that the advisory committee has concluded its evaluation with GM candidates
and provided input to leadership.
The leadership team is moving to the next step of the process.
Additional updates on the search will be provided as the process continues.
That's a lot of word salad. As a matter of fact, I think I can taste the tomatoes and the croutons
and the cucumbers. I like some pistachio nuts on my salad too.
Oh, very good.
And so that's a lot of-
Vinaigrette drizzle on that too. That's very good.
That's a lot of word salad. So what I think has happened here is I think they've gone to a final group.
And I think the final group is the incumbent Kyle Davidson.
I think it's Matthew Darsh from Tampa Bay.
And I think it's Jeff Greenberg from the Cubs.
And we've talked a lot about this, about how serious they were about someone external.
And was that real so i think what that
means is that it's you know the the final general manager is not going to be peter shirelli or scott
mellenby or eric tulsky or theresa resch and we'll find out if there was ever anyone else they
interviewed now i think it's possible that they may go back to people in that group and
say, for example, if it's Kyle Davidson or it's Jeff Greenberg, or even if it's Matthew Darsh,
to be honest, I'm wondering if they're going to go back to any of those people and say,
are you interested in being part of our group? And I've talked a lot about how they could really
use an adult chick too. Like Scott Melby, for example, he doesn't have a team.
You know, Shirely works for St. Louis.
Tulsky, you know, works for Carolina.
From what I understand about Carolina, they're not inclined to do that.
But again, you know, Mellenby is someone that could.
I don't know where this is going to go.
I'm just kind of talking out of my head here.
But I think one of the questions we're all kind of wondering is,
are they serious about a non-hockey candidate? out of my head here but i think one of the questions we're all kind of wondering is are
they serious about a non-hockey candidate and one of the things i found out after i wrote the blog
which was just posted as we were doing this podcast thursday night is that blackhawks really
went dark on their candidates for a long time here and one of the things they've kind of discussed
internally was can we really do this?
And how would it work?
And would our fans really buy in?
And would, you know, our star players or star players around the league really buy in?
So I'm curious to see if Greenberg ends up getting this job, what that's going to mean.
Because all I can say is I heard his interview was really good.
I heard that he was prepared and they really liked him.
So I think they've got to figure this out.
We know they like Davidson.
I think the owner or Danny Wirtz, the CEO, picked Davidson.
And Darsh is a guy, his stock is rising.
He's got how many interviews has he had in the last two months?
He's been interviewed in Anaheim.
He's been interviewed in Vancouver. now he's being interviewed here.
So Montreal,
Montreal.
So there's obviously something going on here.
You know,
obviously people think that he's got real talent,
so we'll see where this goes,
but it sounds like they're down to their final three and we'll see what they
decide to do and whether or not this becomes a mix of candidates.
It's an interesting one.
Like they've, you know, they've, they've definitely got us all guessing. to do and whether or not this becomes a mix of candidates. It's an interesting one.
Like they've, you know, they've definitely got us all guessing.
There's no question about that.
Well, interesting about this one is that collection,
Kyle Davidson, Matthew Darsh, and Jeffrey Greenberg,
these are all first timers.
And I wondered about that town hall and the outburst from Rocky Wertz and knowing how, you know, the NHL
doesn't ultimately decide on who a team's
general manager is going to be, but they can
be an influential, they can guide, they can
recommend.
Yep.
I thought it might be someone with more
experience and an experience, an experienced
hand at handling owners not just handling everyone
below but handling people above at the same time and listen greenberg may have that skill set
darsh may have that skill set davidson may have that skill set we just haven't
seen it yet at the nhl level i'm mildly surprised here that this is a a collection of first timers
here as the uh the the second wave of interviews so that makes you wonder what's going on around
them like the one thing about davidson is you know he's got brian campbell who we clearly trust
right yes i think that's one of the biggest questions i have now is how is this all gonna
look they've said they're not hiring a president of hockey ops.
I mean, you need some people here that, you
know, can fill in the blanks and have experience.
Just life experience to help get you through
some things.
And they don't have to be in charge, but they
have to be able to give you advice.
I just wonder where this is all going to go.
I think it's really fascinating.
Do we have any timeline on how this is all
going to play out, Frej? I honestly don't't know i honestly don't know i i really don't okay uh
the timeline for zidane ochara um going into thursday he had skated in 1651 regular season
games that ties him with chris chelios for most by a defenseman in the NHL. And on Thursday evening, his Islanders face off against the San Jose Sharks.
Chara skates in game number 1,652.
And Chara is now number one.
And in the game, a pretty spirited bout with Jeffrey Vial as well,
who gave up some height and some poundage to Zidane O'Chara,
who delighted in some poundage of Jeffrey Vielle.
And now Jeff Vielle is going to fight Chara on his record-breaking night.
Well, let's see how much he's willing to bite off here.
One of the toughest guys around, Zidane O'Chara.
He's got a hold of Vielle's sweater.
And now Vielle taking right
hands from the big man. Back up
on his feet. Well, first of all,
that Vielle, he's got
big guts. Oh, man.
I'm sure he's never felt before.
And he's biting off
such a long reach. And then he wrestles
Vielle to the ice.
Oh, Jeff Vielle.
And then he gets an attack on the helmet.
At least Jeff Biel can say he took on Chara on the night he broke the all-time record.
He's tough.
He's game.
To be honest, I kind of wondered if Chara would do it just because it's his night.
He doesn't have to elevate anybody else if he doesn't want to, but it's his call.
And if that's what he wants, that's what he wants.
I mean, my love for Chara, as one of my buddies tells me,
could you be any more in love with Zdino Chara?
First of all, my buddy says to me, do you think he listens to your podcast?
And I said, there's no way he listens to this garbage.
And secondly, he said, do you think if way he listens to this garbage and secondly he said do you think
if he does listen to this podcast he's embarrassed about the way that you talk lovingly about him
and i said the question is moot because there's no way that he listens to this podcast
so someone's going to send him this clip you know someone someone on the islanders now is going to
you know what was really good about this week in a week that's been a time.
It's been tough for a lot of reasons.
We've seen JF Berube when his first games in four years.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
The first of those games is 19 year old son gets to see him play in the NHL
for the first time.
So we see Andrew Hammond get to win his first game in four years for those
two guys,
Berube and Hammond that's dedication to hockey.
You know, they're older guys.
They're older by hockey standards, not by real-life standards.
But they're older guys, and they've been around,
and it would have been very easy for them to just, you know,
time to do something else.
But no, they persevere, and they get these moments.
And Chara, like that guy doesn't cheat anything, right?
No.
Everything he does, he's all about you put the most effort into it
and you do it properly.
And I think we all have people out there that we watch,
they get rewarded, and you're like,
that person does not deserve to get rewarded.
And sometimes that's jealousy, and I don't like jealousy,
but sometimes it's fair.
Like there's nobody who's going to look at Zidane with Char
and say that guy doesn't deserve to get rewarded.
Nobody is going to say that about him.
And it was the same about Chelios.
Chelios put in a ton of effort to get where he was,
and it's a great thing for Char.
He really deserves it, and like you said, that kid VL,
man, he's got a lot of guts to try that.
I still do like what Chris Chelios had to say.
Yeah, that was fantastic.
I'm not going to sit here and say it doesn't bother me.
Good for him.
Stay true to yourself and your identity.
I love it.
Congrats to Chelios for holding that record for as long as he did.
And congrats to Chara for breaking it.
Elliot, as we record this part of the podcast,
and this is kind of the Frankencast,
a little bit here, a little bit there,
a little in the late evening,
a little in the middle of the afternoon. It is right now 317 Eastern on Thursday, February the 24th. And tonight, the National Predators
will face off against the Dallas Stars. Pekka Rinne will have number 35
retired, the first Pred to have his number retired. Congratulations.
And there are questions about the future of Philip Forsberg in
Nashville with the Preds.
What do you hear?
What do you know?
So obviously, Andy Strickland's tweet was the one that got this all going the other night.
And I don't like this whole idea of somebody reporting somebody and everybody going and running and crapping all over it.
You know, I felt really badly last week.
You know, Frank Cervelli reported that the Golden
Knights had asked about the possibility of maybe bringing Fleury back. And that one was one you
can't really avoid chasing, right? And the Golden Knights said that it's not true. And, you know,
you have to look into it because it's out there, but I just don't like disagreeing with other
reporters. I think sometimes reporters get used in that way.
And also, as someone who puts themselves out there with some of the things I hear and think,
sometimes I think it's really annoying when I know I'm writing about something and then
someone says, no, it's not true.
So I really hate doing it.
You know, the thing with what's going on here, this is the picture I'd paint about Philip
Forsberg.
You know, the thing with what's going on here,
this is the picture I'd paint about Philip Forsberg.
I think that the Nashville Predators know that Philip Forsberg is going to be
at least an $8 million player.
They cannot bring him in under Ryan Johansson,
who's at eight.
So he's going to have to be over eight.
I believe that the Nashville Predators
have communicated to Philip Forsberg
that the highest paid player on the team will remain Roman Yossi,
who's 9.059.
Like these are two hard negotiators here.
David Poyle, tough negotiator.
JP Berry, who represents Forsberg, tough negotiator.
And I have no doubt that Berry came in with a big number
because that's what he's paid
to do you don't negotiate against yourself and i would bet that number is higher than 9.059 and
potentially much higher than 9.059 but that's what his job is and there's time here the only way that
the predators are trading philip forsberg is if they don't believe that
they can sign him.
Like that's what this is about.
So if you're going to tell me that on one hand that David Boyle is out there and he's
talking to Philip Forsberg and his representatives about an extension, but he's also out there
saying, just in case I can't get this done, what's the market?
I'd believe that.
I think if Philip Forsberg is
happy with somewhere between eight and a half and 9.059, this is going to get done. That's what I
believe. But I should mention, there's also the matter of structure. There's also the matter of
trade protection, things that the Predators haven't done in the past. But once you do it for
Roman Yossi, you're going to do it for Philip Forsberg. This all has to work out.
But I just think if it's a number that comes in
below 9.059, I believe the Predators are going
to re-sign him.
If we don't get a situation where Forsberg's
willing to do that, then we've got a problem.
And that's the way I look at it.
You're right.
The horse has left the barn on the no trade clauses,
the no move clauses with the National Predators.
That's a war that David Poyle has always fought.
Doug Armstrong is still fighting that one right now in St. Louis, as we all know.
I want to get to talking about the Preds here in a second, but a couple more things on Philip Forsberg specifically.
How much of a hang up, and you mentioned details and there's the number and then there's the term.
How much of a hang up is term here do you think like we're not talking about someone who's entering his 30s but he's three years away
from it how much of a factor is that for nashville do you figure i think you've got to know you're
going to have to give up term here right yes is it a problem i guess it's always a problem if you're
worried that a guy is gonna flame out in his early 30s.
But they know Philip Forsberg.
You know if you're negotiating with Forsberg right now, he's not signing a three-year deal.
This is term, and you know it.
The advantage that they have is that they know him.
They know him.
And so they should understand what he's capable of and what his patterns are.
Do you think that number that you cited or those numbers that you cite, that range that you cite
is a discount for Nashville? And the reason I ask that is if Philip Forsberg goes to markets,
could he get more than that range?
I think it's always possible.
I mean, it just depends on how many people are interested in you
and the way he's going right now.
A lot of people are going to want him.
You know, the other thing too is don't forget Nashville's a no-tax state.
Yes.
So that's a factor.
I believe his wife is from the American Southeast too.
You know, that's always a factor.
You know, as you and I both know, we do what our wives tell us to do.
So if they want to be around there, you know, we do it.
I go where I'm put.
I go where I'm put.
So, yeah, I mean, that could be a factor too.
I think all of these things are part of the conversation.
I can't imagine the term is a big deal, Jeff.
I mean, you've got to know if Forsberg's 27 years old,
he's in a UFA deal.
We're talking eight years here.
We're not talking four.
Nashville is a fascinating team to me,
like an utterly fascinating team to me
because it seemed as if they had a flirtation
about tearing this thing down.
We're about to do it.
The goalie got hot.
They made it to the playoffs.
They still traded off a key piece of their team in Ryan Ellis.
And they're entertaining reloading here as they find themselves once again in a playoff position.
Like they were like, am I wrong here?
Was there like a couple of months where David Boyle said to himself, it's time and we have to move here.
But it was like, they went through a mental rebuild of about two, maybe three months.
Look, I think that they're a little bit surprised about where they are.
Maybe.
I don't think they knew what to expect this year.
Like when I spoke to Paul a couple of weeks ago, he kind of marveled at the fact that they were leading the league in, in fighting majors.
Right.
Yeah.
Like I think the predators this year, they were in the ultimate, we hope for the best situation, but we really don't know.
You know, they had a bad stretch here.
They kind of let Dallas back into the race a bit, but generally they've been much, much better than I think a lot of us expected.
I think they've been pleasantly surprised.
much, much better than I think a lot of us expected.
I think they've been pleasantly surprised.
If you would have told me they would have been in, you know,
14th place in the Western Conference,
I think a Forsberg decision's a lot easier.
But instead, you're in the race.
Your fans are probably very happy.
You know, the tough thing, too, is that this news comes as they're having a big weekend.
You know, Rene's getting his number retired on Thursday night,
and they're playing an outdoor game on Saturday. And I wish I was down in Nashville losing brain cells this weekend, but it's just not possible. So that hangs over it too. But, you know, you're going in the right direction. I think that that adds a bit of pressure on to making sure you get this done. Forsberg could set your goals record. I think you have to feel good about the way you're trending
right you mean Yossi's playing like a Norris trophy winner Saros is playing like a Vesna trophy
winner Riddick gave you a huge win the other night you think if Florida scores five against you
you're losing right and you won that game out to the blue line and there's a shot by Myers that
deflected away picked up left side given to
Forsberg a backhander stop rebound try stop as well and then the rebound put in on the backhand
by Philip Forsberg that ties the game that's toward the middle Duchesne feels back gives it
off the one-timer Yossi scores Roman Yossi spinning well atop the right circle. And the Predators get back a goal here.
Now trailing 3-2.
Here comes a loose puck.
Picked up.
A break.
Coming on now.
Ekholm.
Backhander.
And he scores.
Excuse me.
That was Tanner Janot.
Not Matthias Ekholm.
But in any case, it is the first shorty of the year for the Predators.
And this game is tied at four. Here's Forsberg
out high. The shot's done. Rebound! Try the
score! Predators take
the lead! Exactly what you want.
Get it to the net and battle for it.
Some good exchanges up top between
Forsberg and Yossi.
The rebound comes to Gronlund, and
he's Johnny on the spot. The Nashville
Predators found a way to pin the fourth home ice defeat
on the Florida Panthers here tonight.
And Forsberg is giving them what they need.
He's having a fantastic season.
I mean, to me, this looks like a situation where everybody wants it to work out.
And so can we get to a spot where everybody's happy?
I think we can.
But Nashville has said, look, there's only as far as we're willing to go.
And that number is 9,000,0588.999999.
Just a shade under the Swiss defenseman.
By the way, that Florida game was,
I know there's still more hockey to be played this week
and this weekend,
but as we sit here recording this right now,
that's the game of the week.
That game was fantastic.
And Colton Sissons goes 16-0 on the faceoff dot.
That was a remarkable performance by Colton Sissons.
We'll turn our attention now to maybe a team that went into this season saying,
let's see what we got here.
And the wheels have kind of come off.
And we've talked about the Winnipeg Jets before and the decisions that face them.
But the Enigma Bowl, as we referred to it for a couple of weeks,
the Dallas Stars versus the Winnipeg Jets,
two teams that we can't really get a handle on.
It's akin to grabbing a handful of water.
Good luck holding on to it.
Trying to figure out who these two squads are.
Winnipeg loses that one.
Dallas, Tyler Sagan, overtime.
Heroics there.
403 left in overtime.
The entire puck has to cross.
If Tyler Sagan scores,
he would become the seventh different star
to win a game in three-on-three overtime this year.
There are six wins from six different guys.
We have our verdict.
It's over.
After video review, the book in Kosovo.
And indeed, Tyler Sagan.
He plays the role.
And indeed, Tyler Sagan, he plays the role.
He has terrific career numbers against Winnipeg,
and he's got himself the game-winning goal in overtime.
So where are the Winnipeg Jets at then?
Like at some point, and maybe it's already happened,
do they not have to have the discussion about maybe we've taken this thing as far as we can?
I think you have to be having that conversation.
I'll tell you first.
So we've talked about Winnipeg, I think, four times on your show this week.
And I'm kind of running out of things to say.
But then after your show on Thursday, today, somebody called me and he said that the biggest thing is that the Jets as an organization
were a little bit in a state of shock at how this year has gone. And some of them are starting to
come out of it. It's interesting to me. They said that they're really disappointed at how this year
has gone. And I think everybody understands that.
I was one of the people who was saying that Winnipeg was the best team in Canada,
and now they're sixth in the central, and the math really isn't good for them.
It's just not there.
It's really not there.
As realization is set in and to where they are,
I think it hit that organization really hard.
And this has been a hard year for the jets for a lot of reasons.
And this issue with the way they've played is now the latest,
you know,
this person said to me,
you know,
they're starting to come out of it.
You know,
you have your scouting meetings and as part of those meetings,
you ask, start to ask really tough questions. And the organization has started to ask some
really tough questions. And, you know, I haven't asked anybody there about it,
but the big surgery that they might have to make, I don't know if they're going to be prepared to do
it at the trade deadline. I mean, there's the obvious ones. What are you going to do with Paul Stasny?
What are you going to do with Andrew Kopp?
And then I think the bigger questions.
Shifley's name started to get out there.
People were like, maybe they have to trade Shifley.
And you know how he is, and you know he heard it, right?
You just know by the way he played that he heard it.
He wouldn't like that.
Right.
I just think that all those kinds of questions, Jeff,
I got to think those are end of the season
or prepare towards end of the season conversations.
And to me, where it starts is actually with Hellebuck.
And I have no issue with the way that Hellebuck's played.
I think he's played really hard.
I think he's a great goalie.
I've just been thinking about what's my line i only judge others i judge myself i think i'm like a lot of people
that the last couple of years have been incredibly challenging at times like i know myself i've faced
burnout in the last two years like i haven't't faced burnout before. Yep. And I look at Hellebuck, the way he was talking,
like he was one of the first to really come out
and say.
The whole COVID protocols I think are just tough
on people.
I think it's doing a lot more harm than good.
And everyone that I talked to, they're in
agreeance that we need to be informed
and then we need to be able to make our own decisions.
I think our fans need coming to the games and need a team to cheer around
to bring the community back together and bring people's spirits up.
They need something to look forward to because all this shutdown,
that I know me personally, all the shutdowns is hard on on on families you know mentally and not being able to do things and
live your life the way you want to live is it's tough on people so you know when this league is
starting to go back to those ways I just don't see if they're really thinking about how it's affecting people long term.
And after a number of other players were more comfortable saying it,
but he was one of the first.
And at the end of the season with Hellebuck,
I actually wonder if a long break where he can unplug and be with his family
and do whatever he does in the summer might actually
be the best thing for him because he's a guy I look at and I say, man, that guy's been through
a lot. He's been through an awful lot. And I just wonder if a break is going to help him
in the future. And that's one of the things I kind of wonder if they're just talking about
there with him and some of their other players is he's saying what that whole group is feeling and maybe might
the best thing for the jets be time and i do wonder if that's kind of being discussed in there
that's an organization that has been through a lot in the past couple of years, a lot. And that's an organization that has a reputation as being loyal to their employees, whether
it's your coaching staff, whether it's their players as well.
I don't think you would be surprised if this is an organization that right now just needs
a timeout and a reset and a chill out period.
I want to get to the Toronto Maple Leafs and I want to get to Jake Muzzin and the blue
line situation and the goalie conversation. But I want to talk to you a little bit about Rodion Amiroff and the Maple Leafs announcing that their former first round draft pick Rodion Amiroff has been diagnosed with a brain tumor. He's undergoing treatment. As we all know now in Germany, you had a Zoom call and wrote a really good piece on him and the situation at sportsnet.ca.
Could you describe the conversation that you had with Amaroff?
Because as I was reading this, I'm getting the strong sense that the one thing he wants to reinforce to himself, people around him, and anyone that comes in contact with him is he's remaining positive through all of this.
Well, that's it.
First of all, I've never met him, obviously.
You know, when he came to North America last year after the KHL season, he showed up for
the playoffs.
You know, he missed the first three games in Toronto because he was still going through
his quarantine.
So the first game he went to was game seven.
So nobody really got too much of a chance to meet him.
He was skating with the taxi squad.
You know, the Maple Leafs did that really nice gesture
where they, before their practice
or their morning skate on Thursday,
they did that team greeting for him.
And Tavares said after that he was, you know,
one of the few players who got a chance to meet him
because I asked him if he went into the Maple Leafs
dressing room last year during the playoffs at all.
And he said he was able to go to the one at the practice facility, but he wasn't able to go to the one at the NHL rink because of COVID rules.
So a lot of those guys probably wouldn't have had the opportunity to meet him.
But as I wrote in the piece and I've said since then, just looking at him on the screen, you wouldn't have been able to tell that anything was wrong with him.
He still has his long black hair.
He was smiling.
You know, I should mention
he was wearing a Yankee hat.
And I said to him,
what, the Leafs didn't send you a Leaf hat?
And, you know, everything was done
through Dan Milstein, his agent,
because Amarov doesn't,
obviously can't speak fluent English yet.
And he kind of laughed when I said that and he goes, I just like hats.
And that just happened to be the one that he grabbed. And I will say this, the process of this
was when Kyle Dubas had his media availability after the all-star break, he was evasive on
Amaroff and for obvious reasons. Now that we know the truth, we understand that he was evasive on Amaroff and for obvious reasons now that we know the truth we
understand that he was evasive yeah and I just started asking around you know the first thing
I actually thought about Jeff was is this a mental health issue or something like that and I wasn't
really looking to go anywhere with it I was just more or less just concerned for the person is
everything okay and eventually I kind of walked into it and I just said, look,
like, okay, you know, when he's ready to talk, I'll make myself available. And I think that one
of the things that everybody here was concerned about was it's the trade deadline and, you know,
names are going to start getting mentioned. And at some point in time, you know, the lease might just say,
look, Amaral is not available. And I don't think they would have leaked it or anything like that,
but someone would have found out. I think there was concern that someone would have found out,
you know, Toronto was obviously very private about this. So eventually it came back to me that,
okay, but I was told that the only real condition i was given was we don't want
this to be a sad piece amurov wants to come across as optimistic and determined to show the right
attitude and the conversation was all like that like there there was no point in the conversation
where he said anyone should feel sorry for him or he even came
across as feeling sorry for himself i'll tell you a funny story so his the dog the multi-poo he has
the name is shania and i misunderstood something and i had initially something written that the
dog was named after brendan shanahan after he got drafted by the Leafs. And so I was
doing that. And then someone reached out to me and said, don't write that. It's not true.
He was laughing about that too. He thought that was very funny that I thought that he named his
dog after Brendan Shanahan. So you just wouldn't be able to tell that this was a person who was
in any kind of bad state. And, you know, obviously
the diagnosis is a big challenge, but I think in those moments you get to choose how you are
defined. And I think by the piece, we all got to see how Amarov chooses he can be defined.
And I should say here too, that he said, anytime you speak speak about this please make sure you thank the maple leaves and
ufa for me he said they were incredible both of them you know they was diagnosed at the end of
january as i wrote in the piece the doctors in germany were concerned for a little bit of time
before that so i think people here knew the possibility there was something serious and they were
really worried for him, but they supported
everything he did or needed to do.
And I know he feels incredibly thankful
to both those teams.
And I know it weighed hard on both those teams.
You don't have to be a fan of the team
to cheer for the player.
In this case, the person.
Elliot, we wish Rodion Amirov the best of all possible outcomes to his situation.
Muzzin's been hurt as he inadvertently, I think, ran into Weidman behind the play.
Yes, and you know that Muzzin has been dealing with the concussion issues, and that is just
a horrible sight.
Sticking with the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Jake Muzzin situation.
First of all, anytime there's a concussion situation,
especially two concussions back-to-back right away,
you're always concerned for the long-term health of the person.
So we really do hope for the best for Jake Muzzin here.
From the hockey point of view,
what does this do to the Toronto Maple Leafs now, Elliot?
Is this another Merrick,
let's get right to the hockey stuff.
No, this isn't.
I've learned my lesson about getting right to business
and not being sensitive enough to people
that are going through trades,
even though they've been part of the NHL
going back to 1917.
Somehow it still sneaks up on people.
But I understand that there are emotions involved
and there are things other than just he,
who's going to be on my fantasy team.
I get it.
I understand.
First of all, you always think of the player
in any situation like this.
And you think of the people around him.
Like I can remember talking to Colby Armstrong
about his concussions when he was with the Maple Leafs.
And he said like, look, like it was horrible for me. It was horrible to my family. I had to stay in my bedroom in a darkened
room. This is over Christmas and I couldn't be part of any family functions as well. And then
it has a toll on my wife. It has a toll on my kids and my family. It affects everybody in your orbit.
It's primarily the player, but it's also everybody around the player as well and i think
we should as you mentioned all be sensitive to that yes and i think that's how we all feel like
most importantly you hope that jake muslin gets to a point where he's comfortable going back on
the ice and playing healthily and that's huge you know we just don't know and i don't think the
mapleys know how long he's going to be out he's on long term so we
know he's going to miss at least 10 games or 24 days that's the rule but a couple months ago he
had a concussion and he missed a month and we know that with concussions you worry about the
cumulative effects so you sit there and you're saying okay he missed a month last time we're
going to be careful of this.
It's going to be more than a month this time. And on that, I think we can be pretty sure there's
nine weeks left in the regular season. It's possible that he could be out until the end of
the regular season. But I think the Maple Leafs have time to kind of navigate that a little bit
and see where everything is.
He's going to be out a while. They know that. You just can't put a timeline on it. I do think that
the Maple Leafs have adjusted in the aftermath of his injury in terms of thinking what they can
potentially do. I mentioned the name JT Miller as someone I think would be a good fit for them.
do. I mentioned the name JT Miller as someone I think would be a good fit for them. You know,
I think that they had a conversation with Vancouver about it. I don't think that's so likely. I'll tell you this. The one thing about Toronto is they don't have a ton of draft picks,
but they do have some really good prospects. They have really good prospects that other teams would
like. You know, I don't think they're doing them for
rentals now the other thing too is but what someone said to me is are you even giving that
up for a guy like like let's just put matthew nyes in this conversation okay okay because i think he's
at the top him and nemo are probably at the top of Toronto's prospect list.
They've got Abruzzese.
They've got Robertson.
These are all good prospects.
But I would think that Nyes and Nimola would be at the top.
And someone said to me today, they think Toronto could make a deal for JT Miller.
But are you even doing a Nyes or Nimola for someone who's only there at most for a year
and a half potentially
he's not even sure that toronto would do that you know someone said to me today they said
kyle dubas knows he's got to have a good playoff this year but he asked me do you think that he's
the kind of guy whose ego is so big that he would make that deal to save himself
potentially. And my answer was, I don't think he would do anything that he thought was dumb
for now or in the future. I don't think he's that kind of person. And he said to me, I agree.
Like Ken Holland, we've talked about it. Look,
we all know what's facing the Oilers in net. We'll see what he ends up doing. But to this point,
he said, look, I'm not trading a first for a goalie. And he had a chance to trade a second
and a third for Corpus Allo. And he didn't do that. I just think that Dubas, regardless of
what the situation is around him, he's not going to do anything he thinks is long-term bad for short-term gain.
I just don't see it.
Do you think I'm wrong on that?
No, but the thing is, there's plenty of historical precedent to show that when a general manager feels his job's in jeopardy, he makes moves like this.
And I'm not saying that Kyle Dubas thinks that his job is in jeopardy, but listen, we've just had a conversation about Philip Forsberg.
How did he end up in Nashville? Like that was the Martin Erat deal. That was, you know,
Philip Forsberg's high scoring first round pick, but I need to do something here with the Washington
Capitals. Like, I think we all saw that move for what it was. And there is a lot of precedent in the NHL for general managers making these moves.
And the thinking is like, if I don't trade this guy, I'm not going to be here when he
develops.
So what does it matter?
I don't see him having that kind of thought process.
I don't think he thinks that way.
The other thing too, is he's 36.
He's still got lots of years to be a gm in this league
ahead of him i think also as much as i think they'd like to add another forward i just wonder
where they feel their biggest need is well here's the question then is it second line to help the John Tavares situation? Is it blue line to help the top four mix?
Or could it be a net?
I'm wondering if they're thinking about net.
You know my theory has been on Campbell
that the situation disrupted him, right?
Yes.
The pause, yeah.
It's getting tougher and tougher to say that
because it's been longer and longer since the pause right
so i do feel that way but at some point in time this is a results-based business right
you got to come back and say okay enough of that i'm back up to my standard i have to think they're
considering it in goal and also especially, especially with Muzzin out,
like the thing is we're talking about,
is Muzzin going to be out until the end of the regular season?
He might be back before then.
Well, I hope I'm wrong about this and I hope it's not true,
but what if he turns out to be out longer?
Yeah.
But then you're looking at not just doing a small thing at deadline. You're looking at a huge trade.
Now they have an extra ton of cap room so they can do that anyway.
You know, the Maple Leafs by the math,
they could get close to 7 million in cap room using LTIR.
Yes.
So, you know, you're going to have the option to do some things.
How big do you think they go?
I don't think the GM is afraid. Put it that way.
Let's see.
They have time.
We've got three and a half weeks to make up more stuff.
Let's get to a couple other teams here.
Something that we didn't touch on on the radio show this week at all,
but we should probably spend some time here with,
is former general manager of the Anaheim Ducks,
Bob Murray has been hired by the Calgary Flames as a scout.
How did all this come about?
Do you know?
You know, Bob Murray has a long history with some members of the Calgary organization.
I've seen some articles in the aftermath of it getting out that Brad Tree Living pointed
out that they had a relationship when both were assistant general managers,
Tree Living in Phoenix and Murray in Anaheim before he got to the number one
position.
Obviously as two GMs in the same division that see each other a lot,
they would have had the relationship there.
And also, you know,
Bob Murray and Daryl Sutter have a long history together from their days in
Chicago. You know, Bob Murray and Daryl Sutter have a long history together from their days in Chicago.
You know, Bob Murray stepped down this year.
And from what I understand, he took ownership of it.
He didn't contest it.
He spent time in a facility to get help for his problems with alcohol.
And I think you deserve an opportunity to show that you've learned.
And I think you deserve an opportunity to show that you've learned.
And, you know, someone I spoke to the other day said he's really tried to change his lifestyle.
Go to bed earlier.
You know, when you're at games, as he's now scouting for the Flames, he's going to be very careful of what he does, you know, around those games before and after.
But, you know, he's somebody who, you know who tries to live a healthier life. I remember when I was
younger, there was a story about Chris Mullen in Sports Illustrated. And this is one of those
stories that really sticks with you. And Chris Mullen is a Hall of Fame basketball player,
and he had a battle with alcohol. And every paragraph of that story began with,
Chris Mullen is an alcoholic. And the idea was to get it into your head that it's not something that goes away
and it's something you have to be constantly mindful of.
And I heard later that Mullen really liked the approach of the story.
So I've always,
I've always remembered that.
So,
you know,
from what I've heard,
Bob Murray understands that,
you know,
this is a challenge
but he's trying to make the right choices and the right life changes to do this challenge and i
think he deserves the opportunity to show that he's capable of meeting it and you know hockey's
been a huge part of his life if he feels that some level of hockey, being a scout and maybe not
being the pressure of a general manager can help him with that, I'm okay with that. We should be
trying to help others. Yes, anyone. I'm always in support of someone that's trying to make themselves
better and not just help themselves, but make good with all the people around him,
specifically from his past. So we wish him and the Calgary Flames all the people around him, specifically from his past.
So we wish him and the Calgary Flames all the best in this endeavor.
All right, we're going to take a pause, Elliot,
and come back with some emails
at 32thoughts.sportsnet.ca.
We'll be right back.
Okay, Elliot, finish up with a couple of emails here at 32thoughts.sportsnet.ca and one phone call at 1-833-311-3232.
You can call up the thought line.
Let's get to our first email.
This comes to us.
Oh, you'll like this.
Stuart from the UK, currently serving abroad the HMS Protector in Antarctica
and also sent some really cool pictures of Antarctic wildlife
and also a picture of himself aboard the ship in a Flames jersey.
So it's a great look, Stuart.
Thanks so much for sending those pictures in and submitting this question.
The question is about tanking.
I would imagine deliberately telling a team to lose
wouldn't be a good look for the league or for sports betting so how would they do it
well i think the the most obvious way you can tank is by your roster right you can you know
trade people out ship people out i mean you remember that remember that Arizona Buffalo thing a few years ago, they changed the lottery because of what was going on with that one.
Tim Murray, Tim Murray,
just doing everything he could to get Connor McDavid.
And he got Jack Eichel out of it.
But that's one of the things that happens, right?
Is that you strip your roster down and you say, okay,
it's pretty obvious that we're not going to be able to compete on a game in game out basis. I don't think you could ever really tell players to lose.
I think players are smart enough to know if you have a chance or not, but you know, as you're
seeing right now in Montreal, Marty San Luis lit a fire under Cole Caulfield and Nick Suzuki,
and you don't want your young players ever to think it's acceptable to lose.
and you don't want your young players ever to think it's acceptable to lose.
So it's not about saying we're going to lose,
but it's putting together a roster some years where you know you don't have a chance.
Okay, voicemail time.
And by the way, that is a great question, Stuart,
and thanks a lot for the pictures again.
Voicemail time.
This is Chris in New York.
Hey, Elliot, Jeff, and Amo.
Chris Clark here from New York City.
Long time listener, first time caller.
Quick question about the Hart Trophy.
In the same year, has the goalie
ever won the Hart but not the Vezina?
And if so, what are the chances
that Igor Shostakhin does that this season?
Thanks guys.
And to take a page out of Berkey's book,
great job Jeff. Great job Amo.
That's very good.
Okay, that just made my day.
Thanks, Chris.
Best part of the show.
There have been a few examples of goaltenders winning both the Hart and the Vezna.
Jose Theodore, Dominic Kasich, Jacques Plante did it in 1961, 1962, somewhere in there.
So basically the answer to your question was
in the modern era, that has never happened.
If you look at the goalies who've won the
Hart Trophy in the modern era, and I'll get
the hockey nerd to explain when the modern
era officially is.
Hey.
Carey Price won the Hart in 2015.
He won the Vesna. Jose Theodore won the heart in 2015 he won the vesna jose theodore won the heart
in 2002 he won the vesna dominic hoschek won the heart back to back in 1997 and 98 he won the vesna
both times jacques plant won the heart in 1962 he won the vesna the last guy you go back to who won the heart without winning the Vesna was Al Rollins for Chicago in 1954.
That year, the Vesna trophy winner was Harry Lumley.
But what has changed since then?
Okay.
So Harry Lumley played for the Maple Leafs in that season.
And by the way, that Al Rollins heart trophy,
Al Rollins played with the Chicago Blackhawks.
Do you know what spot the Chicago Blackhawks finished that year?
I won't look it up.
Last.
Here's a spoiler alert.
Last place in the NHL.
It was almost as if they said they were bad,
but if they didn't have this guy, how much worse could it be?
There were significant discussions about doing something with the blackhawks either
and there were drafts later on like all teams had to surrender a couple of players to chicago to
kind of beef them up because they were so awful but that's the unique thing about 54 is al rollins
was on a last place team and won the heart trophy could that happen today elliot friedman but wait a
second hold on hold on hold on hold on. You didn't answer the rule change.
I'm going to get there.
But that's what the questioner was asked.
But I'm coloring this in a little bit further.
You see, Elliot, I'm an artist, damn it.
And you don't understand art.
And I'm painting here, you know.
You may think that they're words, but I look at them as sound shapes.
And that's what I'm playing with here on the-
This is finger painting.
This is not art.
This is finger painting. Okay, so that's the al rollins story here's where it changed 1981 the way that the trophy is awarded changed before 1981 whichever goaltender allowed the fewest goals
in the nhl that goaltender got the vesna so to Elliot's point, 1954, Harry Lumley wins it for the Toronto Maple Leafs.
Despite the fact that Al Rollins won the heart, Lumley surrendered the fewest goals.
So he wins the Vesna trophy.
It was changed in 1981.
It went to a voted format and Billy Smith of the New York Islanders was the first to
be voted to the Vesna trophy.
Now, the funny thing about, and Berkey always talks about this.
And that's when they brought in the Jennings trophy, right?
So the goalies who gave up the fewest goals, they got that award.
Yes, named after William Jennings, former New York Rangers president who once put a bounty on the head of Ted Green.
Interesting.
So Berkey always mentions the funniest thing about who gets to vote on which trophy.
Berkey always says, why do they let the general managers vote on the Vesna?
That's the position that us general managers screw up on the most.
Yet we're the ones that are voting on this damn thing.
And he's got a really good point.
But there's your long-winded, even though Elliot didn't like the Al Rollins story.
I'd say I didn't like it.
It's just like, someone emails us or makes a phone call.
Give him the answer.
You just didn't like it because he pulled the Berkey on you.
Didn't thank you.
That was actually pretty funny.
I actually liked that more than the actual question.
That was really good.
I should say, I went back through time as well.
There were two other cases.
Okay.
Before Rollins where a goalie won the heart but not the vesna 1950 chuck rainer
heart bill durn and vesna and 1929 roy waters shrimp yes shrimp waters yeah and george hainsworth
vesna you know the interesting thing about that to the questioner is as you said there the thing
that makes it more possible now that it could potentially happen is that there's two different groups of voters.
Yes.
The heart voters are the media.
Yep.
And the Vesna voters are the GMs.
And I got to tell you something.
I do wonder if we're going to get to the day where the media doesn't vote for this anymore.
But the one thing I always joke about with, because there's someone from the league who says
you guys shouldn't vote on it.
And I said, that's fine if you really feel that way.
But don't tell me that there won't be hidden agendas
and goofy stuff that happens if the GMs are voting.
There was the one year where I know some people
were really upset about the way the Vesna went down
in one of those seasons.
It was the year that the late great Ray Emery went like 18 and over the
Blackhawks and he got votes and some of the GMs got mad that like he wasn't
even the starting goalie because they thought some GMs were trying to fix it
for their own candidates.
So it's always crazy.
It is.
We'll finish up with this one,
Eric and Edmondson.
I remember reading the book behind the moves.
That is an excellent book. I remember reading the book behind the moves that is an excellent book i remember reading the book behind the moves uh that when glenn say there was
a player in the 1970s he represented himself instead of hiring an agent and recommended that
other players do the same in today's game are there any well-known nhl players who represent
themselves rather than hiring an agent okay Okay, before we answer the question,
are you surprised that a GM, Glenn Sather,
because he probably would have been a general manager when Jason Ferris interviewed him for Behind the Moves,
recommended that players don't use agents?
There are some instances in the game today
of players not using agents.
And the most obvious one that we've talked about a couple of different times is Drew
Dowdy of the Los Angeles Kings, Elliot.
Drew Dowdy, Anthony Duclair.
We interviewed him on this podcast after he signed in Florida and he talked about that
whole process.
Nicholas Backstrom, his last deal with the Washington Capitals was done without an agent.
And when I sent him a note of
congratulations, because I'd written, I don't know if this is ever a good idea because it gets too
personal. He wrote me back and said, do you think it's a good idea now? So it was good to know he
was reading. It doesn't happen a ton. I've said in my case, I tried it once and I took it too
personally. I know some people in broadcasting
have done their own deals. I know Ron for a few times has done his own. Yeah, I've never done my
own. Not since I think my first one was when I went from Toronto radio to CBC. Ever since then,
I've had an agent do all my deals. I wonder about general managers, whether they like players that
have agents or like players that don't have agents. And I would imagine that they would like it when it comes to contract negotiation time, but not so much on a day-to-day course where instead of having a buffer between the player and management, you got to go right to the player now. What do GMs think of the phenomenon of players without agents?
What do GMs think of the phenomenon of players without agents?
It depends. I know some GMs who like it because they think they're battles for contracts.
They're better prepared to handle those negotiations than players are.
But there's also times when you have to say something really hard to an agent,
like, you know, what's going on with your players.
There's something going on that is affecting the way they play or,
or you have to be really blunt in negotiations.
And you know,
if you say it to the person themselves,
you risk ruining the relationship all the time where the agent knows it's
generally business.
That's one of the things that scares people about negotiating directly with players
Elliot let's end on this this is really cool
taking us out a band that holds
nothing back
Stray Tones is a four piece psychedelic rock band
that have been playing together going back to 2012
their sound is heavily influenced
by surf rock and even
some old school punk rock to boot
from their latest album
Magic Green River Swimming
and stunning Tarzanka experience,
here's Stray Tones with Fire Fire on 32 Thoughts Le Podcast.
Oui, oui. It's gone sad and nice
You've got me and me
I wanna ride the parade
Why should it happen so?
Why's it a scandal scene so?
This heaven's given to you so
You've set a place for a little bite Little bite, little bite
What you love
What you love
Go hold me tight
We'll never run around
I want be this way
Whatever it takes