32 Thoughts: The Podcast - Goodbye, Gabby

Episode Date: January 23, 2023

Canucks begin to make changes. Jeff and Elliotte breakdown the hour-long press conference the Canucks held on Sunday (1:00) announcing Rick Tocchet as the franchise's 21st head coach, the dismissal of Bruce Boudreau and Trent Cull, and what might be next for Bo Horvat (24:30).They guys also chat about Timo Meier (28:10), Vladislav Gavrikov (29:10), Cohen Snow announcing the Flames' starting lineup (31:45), Darryl Sutter’s post-game comments on Jakob Pelletier’s NHL debut (32:20), the latest on Jonathan Toews & Patrick Kane (37:55), Matt Dumba (42:40), the red hot Oilers (40:40) and they take your questions (43:36).Email the podcast at [e-mail] or call The Thought Line at 1-833-311-3232 and leave us a voicemailMusic Outro: Kacey Johansing - I TryListen to the full track HEREThis podcast was produced and mixed by Amil Delic, and hosted by Jeff Marek and Elliotte Friedman. Social support was provided by Griffin Porter.Audio Credits: Calgary Flames & Sportsnet.The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of Rogers Sports & Media or any affiliates.

Okay. Oh, geez. All right. Glassbangers, what is it? Good old hockey game by Bedini Band bringing us on stage. Had a few people tweet me about that. Hey, Jeff. It's Nico here from the New Jersey Devils.

I heard you were pumping my tires as a part of my fan club. Appreciate all the support and congrats on your 400th show. Oh, that's awesome. Nico nico he sure of the new jersey devils two things yes selkie trophy stuffed the ballots and number two um elliot did you know that the show that we did in owen sound was show number 400 i actually didn't know that by the way this is not as good as oliver shillington thanking my wife for liking his Instagram page. And hopefully Oliver Shillington is doing well. Yep.

We miss him in the NHL, but that was good, Amal. That was really good. Nico, he sure. All right. You made my day. I'm in a good mood now. So let's kick it off. 32 Thoughts to Podcast presented by GMC and the new Sierra AT4X.

Elliot, you know who I've been thinking a lot about over the past couple of weeks? Who's that? Bill Waters. And I actually talked to Bill on Saturday as I was making my way to Hockey Night in Canada. Bill, for those that don't know, and how could you not, former assistant general manager of the Maple Leafs,

longtime agent, worked in hockey media for a number of years, used to run, and there's a symmetry here for our first conversation, used to run the Orr Walton Sports Camp in Orillia in the early 70s, where both Jim Rutherford and Bruce Boudreaux were camp counselors. I think Jim would have already started his pro career, and Boudreaux would have just been finishing up with the Marlies in junior hockey. But I've been thinking about Bill a lot over the last couple of weeks and something that Bill used to always say to me. Now, I worked with Bill for five or six years doing a daily hockey talk show in Toronto,

and he used to always say one thing to me. He would say, and I'm going to try to do my best Bill Waters here, Elliot. Okay. Jeffrey, you don't judge an organization by how they bring you in. You judge an organization by how they let you go. I've really been thinking about that a lot over the last couple of weeks. It became more and more profound as the Bruce Boudreaux saga continued, and it reached its culmination on Sunday when the Vancouver Canucks made it official

that they have parted ways with both Bruce Boudreau and Trent Cull. As of this morning I decided to do a coaching change here in Vancouver Canucks. I had a conversation with Bruce Boudreau this morning where I thanked him for what he did for the Canucks here over the year. Acknowledge his thousand games and 600 wins as a Vancouver Canuck. Trent Cull was let go as well. Those decisions are never easy. Trent has been here in this organization for a couple of years in Abbotsford and Utica, great people.

But at this point, I felt it was needed a new voice to see if we can get this group to buy in, to play a different way. I felt strongly that this was needed and really happy to announce Rick Tockett as the 21st head coach of the Vancouver Canucks. I believe Tockett was the right fit here for this group right now and moving forward here. There's a lot to get to on this one. There was Saturday night.

There was Sunday afternoon and the press conference. Rick Talkett comes in as a new head coach, as you reported on Saturday, alongside Sergey Gonchar and Adam Foote as well. Boy, to begin on this one the saga is over a new saga begins a new page a new chapter begins in the season from i don't even know how we would we should refer to this from the season from a different planet it feels like at some points what do you make of all this like last saturday night not just two nights ago jeff but nine nights ago was when we saw that clip of bruce boudreaux just looking exhausted after a game in florida and saying i'm here until they tell me i'm not here yeah and i remember that

night i went on air and ron and kelly and kevin echoed it and we I remember that night I went on air and Ron and Kelly and Kevin echoed it. And we said, make the change. We went on air and we said, do it. It's time, make the change and have somebody else coach it out, whether it was Mike, you or someone else. And then for another week, it just continued. And I think everybody felt the same. I mean, all you have to do is go across the internet and you can see how people felt about this. I got a call from someone in Vancouver the other day, and they basically said to me, this was my fault. And I said, oh yeah, why is that? And they said, because if you hadn't reported it then none of this would have happened and i said okay i mean you're entitled to feel the way that you want i don't really worry about

when other people think like that but the one thing that we really don't have a clear answer to at this point in time is they were going down this road long enough that it got out right and i don't know what the situation was i don't know if it was because they wanted to get their coaching staff together i don't know if it was talk it needed some time but the fact is that i think the canucks felt if this had stayed quiet, they could have just let it play out and made the change when everybody was ready. Unfortunately, it didn't stay quiet. And that's why one person out there who I know kind of blamed me for it. And someone said to me, if you look at Jim Rutherford's history, one of his best friends is Paul Maurice. He's fired Paul Maurice

twice. And I think in Rutherford's eyes, this whole thing was supposed to be get everything in line and then make the change. And because the news got out and because they had to have another press conference in the aftermath of Quinn Hughes on Tanner Pearson they lost control of the story and I think everybody thinks they should have pivoted and adjusted is when they lost control of things and the information got out and then Rutherford had to talk last Monday. They should have adapted and made the change. And they didn't. And that's why everybody was so angry.

Picking up on that, what one person told me, which I think has some validity here too. I mean, Jim Rutherford is at the center of all of this. He makes the decisions for the Vancouver Canucks period. I know he's punted some of the responsibilities now over to Patrick Alvin, and we'll get there in a second, but everything revolves around Jim and his decisions. People have input, certainly, but at the end of the day, Jim Rutherford makes the decisions. What someone from another team pointed out to me is it doesn't seem as if there's anyone there who's in a veteran position or a peer position

with Jim Rutherford to say, we can't do this. Jim, this has to stop. Jim, it's gone too far. Jim, this is damaging the brand. I had one person this afternoon call me and say, if the Vancouver Canucks were a stock over the past couple of weeks, how much would it have dropped? And would someone have stepped in and said, we can't do this? Look what's happening to this stock. Do you think there's some validity in the idea that Rutherford's at the center, he's making his decisions, and there's no one really around him to say, that's a bad decision, we can't go down this road? Well, if that's the case, Jeff, that's changed now.

Now, part of this process, and I will apologize to Bruce for this, is probably in my interviews over the course of the season, when people ask me a question, I'm probably too direct and too honest. ask me a question I'm probably too direct and too honest and so that goes back to my comment about team playing with structure more structure and things like that I've done that my whole career I've tried to be honest I've tried to answer the best I can and sometimes that affects certain people. And in this case, it probably did affect him. And I'm sorry I did that. And I've learned from it.

So I've decided that I need to zip it. I'm not going to talk about the team. I'm going to let Patrick and Rick talk about the team and just stay away from those things. But unfortunately, it's turned out the way it did. Nobody takes great pride in this. I've known Bruce for a long time. He's been a friend, and I feel very bad about it.

You know, Jim Rutherford basically ceded his position as the public face of the franchise today. He did. And we'll see if this continues. But what we may have seen on Sunday was the passing of the baton to Patrick Alvin as the face of the franchise. And Alvin is not going to be Rutherford. If you've ever heard him interviewed or you've listened to him talk, this is not a person who says a lot. lot. And sometimes I've been in enough PR meetings and I've seen enough of this over the years that someone has said, we have to make life around the Canucks less interesting. And one of the ways

you're going to make the situation around the Canucks is less interesting is you move from Rutherford, who's as blunt as blunt gets to Alvin, who can be as bland as bland gets. No more gasoline on the fire. So there's a couple of things. First of all, as we mentioned, McTuckett comes in as a new head coach. That story has been out there for a while. Jim Rutherford essentially saying, you know,

apologize to Bruce Boudreaux. It's my fault for being too honest. As one person, you know, apologize to Bruce Boudreaux. It's my fault for being too honest. As one person, you know, texted me today, pays himself a compliment on the way to transferring over his power to Patrick Ollivine, which is interesting there too.

Well, you know what? I think that that is true though. Like Rutherford is an incredibly blunt guy. Yes, he is. But you know how these things work like first of all when you break it all down this is what happens like this is how coaches get fired like searchers are done behind people's backs conversations are had behind people's back this isn't a surprise to anybody it's just that you know all of a sudden you have Jim Rutherford saying, oh yeah, I'm

talking to other people. I've been talking to other people for a while. We all know that it happens, but having the confirmation publicly, and then there are so many other stops along the way, like Boudreaux on Saturday night reference, you know, Jim Rutherford interviews going all the way back to November, thought he would have been gone there. know, Jim Rutherford interviews going all the way back to November, thought he would have been gone there. There was, you know, the, the couple of uncomfortable moments on TNT last Wednesday, uh, when the

guys were, you know, having a, you know, having a little bit of a go at Rick talking about, you know, what's happening in Vancouver and talking to essentially said, I haven't signed anything, but I do talk to Jim Rutherford and Patrick Galvin going back to the Pittsburgh days, yucking it up a little bit. And I said, you and I talked about this. I felt awful for Bruce Boudreaux in that situation. He was national television. And they're making jokes about Rick Tockett's going to take over

for Bruce Boudreaux. But that's the way it is done. It just doesn't get splashed out there publicly. You're right, Jeff. It's usually a lot more private. It doesn't get out. And why I think this one got out i'd be curious to know how many times they talked to talk it because i think they talked to him a couple of times

a few months ago and he said no or it didn't get done or they didn't finish it and then i think they went back to him again and maybe they went back to him a couple more times. So it was on and off. And I think that the week of the outdoor game, like after the outdoor game, I think was when Rutherford and the owner, Aquilini, visited Talkett, probably about the Friday after the outdoor game, whether the deal was signed or not,

I think everybody knew here that mattered that Talkett was going to be the next head coach. Now, we reported that on that, Jeff, a week after that. So we're talking, give or take a few days, around two weeks plus, like two and a half weeks, since I think everybody knew this was going to happen okay it's too long i've always said and i think you've heard me say it on this podcast before when things are going poorly for your team it's harder to keep secrets because more and more

people are talking about your team when things are well, they're only focused on the games, right? But when things are going poorly, everyone's talking about everything. I think two and a half weeks was just too long. They lost control of it. What I was stunned about, I can't believe still, and maybe the conversations were had. I don't know. I'm not there. believe still, and maybe the conversations were had, I don't know. I'm not there. I'm still stunned that ownership didn't step in and say, we have to stop this. Look what's happening to our brand here.

There's only two good things that are going to come out of this. Number one is that Boudreaux, the way he handled it, as we said, it's going to open up doors for him stellar like his q rating goes through the roof and you know what i want to say this too i'm happy that at least now the assistant coaches have some clarity too like that's something someone said to me like boudreaux's making a at least he's got the rest of the year at a really good salary so you know it's but your assistant coaches who don't make a lot of money the uncertainty is even tougher on them so at least they know where they stand but the second thing that someone said to me is that people are going to do case studies on this and they're going to say we can't let that

happen so hopefully we get to that point and this doesn't occur again in the future yeah the other thing i thought was really important too i spoke spoke to a fan on, on Friday night, uh, after the game on Friday night, he had a sign there and he didn't feel very comfortable with it on Saturday night. They let people do whatever, as long as the fans weren't abusive or the signs weren't abusive. And from what i could tell there were no incidents if there was one i don't know about it they just let the fans do what they

wanted they voiced their displeasure they put up their signs you saw that you heard the cheers you saw the ovation for him at the end of the game as i said at the beginning of the show i think when you're in these jobs whether you own a team or you're in the media, you have to be used to and you have to accept a certain level of public criticism. That's just life. Now, hopefully it's not over the top or over the line, but you have to accept that people are going to be unhappy with you and they're going to criticize you. And they're going to criticize you. And I think that the fact that the Canucks fans were allowed to vent in a positive way on the Saturday, that's the way it should be. Speaking of their fans, too, and I know we like to have fun with Vancouver fans because they're crazy.

Like, it's a wonderful, crazy market. I know Canucks Twitter can be an interesting place. Keeps us employed. A lot of times keeps us employed. I've been at both ends of the stick when it comes to Vancouver Canucks fans. And that's cool. I really got to hand it to them. Like the empathy that they showed to Bruce Boudreau, you know, the outrage, the love, all the outpouring of emotion, all of it. I got to say, like over the last while, I didn't even know where to put a demarcation point.

It was nothing but like an outpouring of like like real emotion elliot and human decency like they were really offended at how the organization was treating bruce budro like on a human level like normally when a coach is going through a losing streak and the team's bottoming out normally it's like get rid of them punt them this is ridiculous like they recognize the score here i here going back miles and behaved accordingly. Yeah, this wasn't the fans or Twitter's fault. You can't

fault them for this. I got to give it to Vancouver Canucks fans. Bravo. And your thoughts on Bruce Boudreaux now. And you talk about how this opens doors for him, the way that he refused to fire back. He leaves with his head held high. He has his dignity. People have already respected Boud refused to fire back. He leaves with his head held high. He has his dignity.

People have already respected Boudreau for years. He's the self-described hockey lifer. He's been around forever. And I think the levels of respect that he has now around the NHL are even higher for what he had to endure. You ever thought on Bruce Boudreau through all of this? Like, listen, man, we saw tears at press conferences. We saw tears on the bench. We saw,

you know, like fist to heart and then pointing to the crowd and soaking it all in. Like this was like right to the, right to the nerve kind of stuff we've seen from, from Boudreaux the last few weeks. Bruce Boudreaux.

If you go to his hockey DB page, okay. The first team that you see listed is the Toronto Marlboros from 1972-73, right? He was a star. He was a star. Jeff, that's 50 years ago this year. Yep. So if you look at his page, you look at where he played in the Ontario Hockey League,

you look at the old WHA. You look at the NHL. You look at all the minor leagues he played in. He finished as a player in 1992 after a bit of time as a player assistant. And then you look at all the coaching. It is uninterrupted. He has been in there for 50 years. And even in the time, like, for example, after he was fired in Minnesota

and before he went to Vancouver, he was a broadcaster. And if he wants to right now, he can go back into broadcasting. I saw Nick Alberga's tweet. I understand it. It's like, you know, maybe he ends up on the TNT set. I don't know. Takes talk, it's a place. He's a lifer.

I watched not too long ago, the piece that we did on him for CBCs when he became head coach of the Washington Capitals. And at that time he talked about how for 20 years he'd had one job interview and that was to become an assistant coach in Los Angeles before he got that job. And you look at his record, that's a lifer. And when it takes you that long to get into the NHL as a coach and you're an underdog, you never lose that underdog mentality. You are always that underdog. And I think that's what it was. i think all of those emotions came flooding to him it wouldn't surprise me if he got another chance to coach again but you know what jeff he's gonna go into uh media if he wants if he wants i'm sure a lot of people are calling him and he's gonna be because of the way he handled this people are gonna be, I'm happy to see that guy on my television set.

It will be fascinating if he lands another NHL coaching gig to see the first game that that team plays in Vancouver with Bruce Boudreaux behind the bench. I don't get way, way ahead of myself here, but that will be special. We cross our fingers that there's another coaching gig out there for Bruce Boudreaux. Okay, so to the Sunday press conference, we talked about a couple of things already.

I thought this was going to happen on Monday. Instead, they got it over with on Sunday. It's Rick Tockett. It's Patrick Galvin. It's Jim Rutherford. The big comment from Rutherford, it's time for me to zip it and pass things over to Alvin. How do you think that everybody handled themselves on that stage? All three of them, the coach, the GM, and Jim Rutherford.

Well, we already talked about Rutherford, Jeff. And like I said, I think it's interesting that Alvin is taking at least what it looks like. We'll see how this all plays out as more of a lead role as the face of the team. I think that's a pretty fascinating development. You know, Talk had said some really interesting things about the way they're going to play. It sounds like he wants certain players to play less. JT Miller specifically.

Pedersen. It sounds like he doesn't want his star players killing penalties. One of the things that he does as a coach is Rick Tockett believes there's a certain way that you have to play to be successful in this league. And he will try to get you to do that. Now, I think that at times he's battled with players about that, but I don't think that's unusual. I think that's actually really common that players battle with coaches all the time about getting them to play that the way you need, but like, he's not shy about those battles. He definitely has them.

He has definite opinions on how he thinks you need to play as a two-way player to be successful in the NHL. I think the biggest thing is what someone told me on Sunday is that the biggest thing you're going to see change here is that the players could sense that Boudreaux did not have the backing of the management. Jeff, as you know, if the players sense that the coach doesn't have solid ground, that's big trouble. They're not going to buy what you're selling. It's very clear to me that those players really liked Boudreaux, but the team wasn't going very well.

Taka's going to walk in there, and they're going to know that he has the backing of the management, and immediately that's going to be different now I think what the most interesting thing is going to be able to see is what changes do we see quickly like how different do the Canucks look this week are we going to notice the way they play is different are we going to notice players in different roles i think that's going to be the interesting thing right away is do we notice players have different roles well you can tell and you know the player in question is jt miller the line about pacing yourself he sees jt

miller as a special project here almost like i need to get jt miller back up to where he was last year so instead of saying uh it looks like he's dogging it out there straight leg back checks all that kind of stuff he said it looks like he's pacing himself that is a very soft landing and a very soft landing is a way to describe uh jt miller's game talking about playing too many minutes, and maybe that's why he's pacing himself through. So of all the players that I'm curious about here with Talk It, I'm curious how he handles JT Miller and how JT Miller responds to him. But it did seem to me like he was going out of his way to indicate to everybody that this is one of his big projects.

Get JT Miller back. Well, the line today about sometimes you look like you're conserving energy when going back, that was really something. That's me in beer league. I'm just conserving energy on my way back here for the inevitable rush going back the other way. You know, when he was asked, you know, what is success? And he quite bluntly said, well, if every player improves,

which is consistent with what, you know, Alvin told them, which is along the lines of this isn't, we're not looking for a quick fix. You know, we're not looking for just a new coach bounce here to jump us back in here. We're looking for something more long-term. And if you're just looking long-term, what's the question you always ask? Are the players getting better? Don't worry about wins and losses. Are the players getting better? And Talkett said that on Sunday. Now, one of the

players that we'll have our eyes on as well, and who knows how long he's going to be in a Vancouver Canucks uniform here for Rick Talkett is Bo Horvath. You talked about him on Saturday. For those that didn't watch Hockey Night in Canada, what is the latest with Bo? I didn't get the sense there's a deal imminent, but we're six weeks out from the deadline. I think the Canucks were trying to cull the herd a little bit, like figure out who's real and who isn't.

And I think they're trying to get a better idea of that. And, you know, one of the things I was trying to figure out was, okay, who is real and who isn't? And I think we're all wondering about the Bruins. And I think the Bruins are also thinking about left defense, but I think we're all wondering about the Bruins. You know, New Jersey is a team I wanted to vote because I think they're going to add, but somebody made a good point to me. They said, you know, they have his shirt and they have Hughes and, and they really believe Hughes is a center. I mean, the guy's got 30 goals this year.

Yeah. You don't screw around with his success. So does Horvat make sense there? I think Meyer is more likely the New Jersey's target than Horvat, but I think they've kind of been around it. You know, the team that I really wonder about here, and this is just my opinion. If it's true, because Steve Eisman doesn't say anything that Larkin and the Red Wings are having trouble closing the deal. I wonder if Detroit's in this at all. But that would have to be based on an extension as well, no? Yeah, and the one thing is, I don't think Vancouver

seems to be inclined to give permission. Doesn't sound that way at this point. As we've reported, the one team is San Jose. If they have a deal they like, they're going to let people talk to Meyer. Columbus is going to let people talk to Gavrikov. But I don't think Vancouver is inclined to do it. So which says to me one of two things. If, if, if, if, if, if, if, if, I don't want to get radioed,

if Detroit is in this, either they do it earlier or Steve Eiserman takes his chances, or you set up that game of broken telephone where my intermediary calls your intermediary and says, if you end up in a place in North America famous for building cars, would you be happy to stay there? What's the word for that? I'm drawing a blank here, Elliot. Is there a word for that?

Is there a nasty word that people like to accuse other teams of but never themselves? What's that word that I'm fishing for? I'm not familiar with this word. Not coming to mind. There's always teams out there that we don't know. Going back to the point about the New Jersey Devils and yeah, you know, Nico Heischer, who by the way, kicked off this program delightfully

a little while ago here, and we thank him for that. And Jack Hughes down the middle. And you'd say to yourself, well, what's the point of Beau Horvat there? Someone had a conversation with someone on Saturday who said, listen, how many times have you ever heard anyone or any team say, yeah, you know the problem we had? We just had too many centers.

Elliot, I can assure you that sentence has never been uttered. Yeah, we've had too many centers. I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. But anyway, that was what someone did say. Listen to 32 Thoughts, the podcast, ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime.

You mentioned Timo Mayer. I do want to get to Gavrikov here in a couple of moments, but Timo Mayer, the latest as you talked about on Saturday. Some of the reporters in San Jose went to ask him, and he kind of didn't say no, but I think it's generally understood that if San Jose gets in a position where they're close somewhere, Meyer and his agent, who's Claude Lemieux, are going to be allowed to talk to teams. So as far as I know, no one's been allowed to do it yet.

But I do think the Devils, like Meyer, obviously I don't think they're the only one. I think the other teams in the East expect the Devils, like Meyer, obviously I don't think they're the only one, but I think the other teams in the East expect the Devils to do something major. And so we'll see if that happens, but I think Meyer is definitely one of the guys they like. New Jersey going to corner the market on Swiss hockey players, whether it's Nico Hischer or Jonas Siegenthal,

are they going to bring Timo Meyer into the mix as well? No, they've got to find a way to get Roman Yossi. There you go. Good luck with that one. Vladislav Gavrikov and his $2.8 million contract is an easy add for any team that needs a defenseman. I think Columbus's preference is to keep Gavrikov. I think they've probably gone to him to see if there's any way

that they could offer him something that would allow him to stay. Don't think that's going to happen. There's a number of teams, and we think about Edmonton, certainly right out of the gate. But Elliot, as we talked about on Saturday, it sounds like Columbus is probably looking for something along the lines of a David Savard deal if they can get it. That's a first and a third. And we may look. If they can get it, that's a first and a third.

And we may look at that and say, wow, that's a lot. But we said, that's a lot about David Savard. We said, that's a lot about Ben Sherrod, but those are just the prices you pay come trade deadline time for defensemen. Yes, those are. I think that's why it's kind of wise for Columbus here to let teams talk to them to see if they can sign. Someone was saying to me, the defense market this offseason,

at least from unrestricted free agency, it's not very deep. Matt Dumba. Well, there's Dumba, there's Severson, the player we're talking about, Gavrikov, but it's not deep. So it makes sense for Columbus to allow teams to do this. I had some Leaf fans sending me notes saying, are you sure we're in on Gavrikov? I think at some point this year, Toronto has called about every potential defenseman. We've

talked about Ottawa has called about every potential defenseman. We all know that. Edmonton has called around every potential defenseman. We kind of know that, although that slowed down because they're going well. I think the Leafs have called around on just about every defenseman. We kind of know that, although that slowed down because they're going well. I think the Leafs have called around on just about every defenseman. I don't necessarily think that means that they know what they're going to do or who it's going to be, but they've made their calls. And I still think they're going to do a forward too. I think they're going to try to do both.

But, you know, Gavrikov's a good player, and I think it's a smart move by Columbus to say, all right, if it improves our stock or our return, sure, we'll let people talk to him. You know which other defensemen are available this offseason? Which ones? All of Washington's. Well, except for John Carlson.

Although I wouldn't be surprised if Eric Gustafson, I don't know how quickly, but I would imagine that Washington would want to re-up with Gustafson, I don't know how quickly, but I would imagine that Washington would want to re-up with Gustafson. Okay, so we started off talking about Bruce Boudreau and Rick Tockett. Let's talk about another coach. And this is, you know, as they say in French, le bien et le mal, the good and the bad. Daryl Sutter.

First of all, the good. Man, I just loved watching Cohen Snow read out the starting lineup. Not just reading out the starting lineup, which great by the way but that huge smile that beautiful young man has afterwards after he announced dan vladar and then just that huge smile it's listen beautiful family boy those kids are special and we all want the best for them we all want the best for the snow family starting at center number 28 Elias Lindholm. Starting at left wing number 29 Dylan Dubey. Starting at right wing number 73 Tyler Toffoli on defense number 52 Mackenzie Wieger and number 8 Chris Tanna and between the pipes number 80 Dan Vladar That's the good.

Cohen Snow reading out the starting lineup. And then there was a Jacob Pelletier situation. Jacob Pelletier's first game and Daryl Sutter mockingly grabs the game sheet, asks what number he wears and runs through his stats. What do you think of Pelletier's debut? What's that? What did you think of Jacob's first few shifts in the NHL? Jacob Pelletier. What number is he? 49. 6 minutes 35 seconds 13 shifts

average 30 seconds a shift. Got 43 seconds in the power play, played 5 minutes 52 seconds, had one shot goal and one hit. Beyond the stats. What is the biggest thing you learned just from being on the bench and seeing what the veterans on the team are doing? It's the NHL. 21 years old. Got a long ways to go. That's game one. It shouldn't have to be that difficult just to be nice to a kid

playing his first NHL game for age. I think that shows you the two sides that Sutter has. He can be incredibly kind to players and their families off the ice but once things get going on the ice he can be very harsh and you know I just want to be up front about something here about 10 years ago he gave me an incredible piece of advice that still shapes my life to this day. And I will always be thankful for that. I do find it very difficult to be critical of him because, like I said, he gave me a piece of advice that I needed and I still need on a day-to-day basis. So it's not easy for me to talk about this

this way. I think this has been a very hard season in Calgary. When Daryl Sutter's your coach, first of all, I think the players acknowledge he's a hell of a coach. Like, he really is a good coach. But he's very, very, very tough, demanding, blunt, and he can be harsh. And I think this season's been really hard

on the players there. Look, Calgary is battling for a playoff spot. They had a really hard offseason. Like last year, with that first line, they could score their way out of trouble. Yeah. And they can't this year. And Sutter has repeatedly brought up

the players that have left and said, we don't have guys like that anymore. And I think that has really worn down the players. And this thing with Pelletier, and I wrote about it last week, he gets called up and he doesn't play. And it seems as if Sutter puts him in even though he doesn't want to, and then he answers that way. I just think that there are times you need the velvet glove. You can't be hard all the time. And I just think this year, that group is really struggling with his approach. I expect my bosses to be demanding. I'm demanding

of myself, but I also know you've got to know when to walk up to someone and say, hey, you know, like you did a great job today or that thing you just think you did that was so bad. It's not that bad. You always think it's worse for yourself and the world is going to find something else to think about tomorrow. And I just think this year, I think those Flames players, they feel that it's been relentless and I think it's affected some of them. I just think that the mood needs to lighten a little bit in Calgary. I think that team, they lost an identity last year when Goudreau and Kachuk left,

and Goudreau's coming back Monday night. And I think it's okay. That's a huge game. Yeah, I think it's okay, Jeff, to struggle with your identity. And that actually is one thing about Sutter. If you hear him talk, he always talks about what's our identity. I think that team is struggling to find it, and I think he's got to realize there that sometimes you have to step off the gas.

That's hard for me to say because I like to drive like 130 all the time, but sometimes, Jeff, you've got to step off the gas. So what you're saying is they hire Bruce Boudreaux as a consultant, as a coaching consultant. That's what you're saying. Boudreaux, there's your headline. Take this one, Radio Elliott with it. Friedman says Boudreaux to Calgary.

There you go. Isolate that clip and spread it around. Could you imagine Sutter and Boudreaux on the bench together? You know what it is? It's the odd couple. Da-da-da-da-da-da. I know my references are all hip, but.

It would be interesting watching the two of their approaches. It certainly would. Speaking of duos, Taves and Kane. So I mentioned on Saturday that, you know, the camp there was hoping that things would have a little more clarity by now. And, you know, some teams would really be able to distinguish themselves from the pack. But things keep shifting. So making a decision has been more challenging than initially they thought.

So it sounds like a decision won't be made for either Jonathan Taves or Patrick Kane until sometime in mid-February. You know, someone told me, Someone told me he wouldn't be surprised if the Max Pacioretty injury with the Carolina Hurricanes kind of changed a few things for a few players and a few teams as well. That injury kind of makes things a little bit more interesting for a lot of players we expect to get moved at trade deadline.

Do you have a thought on Taves and Kane at this point? I know as the weeks approach trade deadline, the drums are banging in Winnipeg for Jonathan Taves. Send the Manitoba kid back home. You have a thought on these two recently? No. Like I said, I've missed it many times. I think this is really hard on them, and I understand it.

I really do. What I have heard, Jeff, though, is that I think there's teams who are interested in their D. And I don't think Jones, because again, Jones has say, but I think some of their other guys, like Murphy, and we've talked about McCabe before. There's real interest in some of those players. Connor Murphy's got a lot of term.

Connor Murphy's got three more years at four and a half. Yeah, but the thing is, what if Chicago eats some of it just to make it better and increase the return they get? McCabe's got term too. These aren't just your rental one and done type deals. I think some teams are good with that

and I think Chicago's willing to consider ideas. Interesting. Do you want to dip your toe back in the David Pasternak waters yeah you know like i love it by the way can you can you please promise every time you mention pasternak you do your your qualifier well it's just because i don't want it to get out of control i use the football analogies and uh remember last week i said i don't think they're in the red zone but they're driving because i'm watching the playoffs while we do this again i don't think they're in the red zone but they're driving because I'm watching the playoffs while we do this again I don't think they're in the red zone yet but I think they're

getting closer and as I said to someone I hope I hope it's not fourth and eight and Kirk Cousins throws a three-yard pass and the negotiation falls apart on that but like I said I've just heard Jeff that I think the Bruins and the rep, who's JP Berry here, I think they're talking almost every day. I think there's a real try here. And I don't know. I think that everybody understands what everybody else wants, and I think they're trying to make it happen.

Okay. One more thing before we get to emails and voicemails. The Edmonton Oilers have now won six in a row. A couple of really underreported stories. Zach Hyman's got 56 points. Yes, he does. And 24 goals. He's been outstanding.

Ryan Nugent Hopkins is having a career season. I think we all expect at some point, certainly by trade deadline, that Yessi Poyarvi will be gone in order to make cap space for Ken Holland to be able to maneuver here. You know, one of the players that I wonder about, you know, we mentioned Gavrikov a couple of moments ago and how he could be a fit in

Edmondson. I wonder about Carson Soucy with the Seattle Kraken. Now he's on an expiring deal. I know Seattle is going for it, but if they can't come to an extension on Soucy, for it, but if they can't come to an extension on Susie, I wonder if Seattle would put them out to market to get something for him. Or do they say, hey, it's year two. Things are going great.

It's not the Vegas fairy tale story, but it's still a pretty good one here. Maybe we just hang on to him and roll the dice. He's a bottom pairingpairing defenseman, but a really effective one as well. I wonder if there could be some Carson Soucy on the trade market in the not-so-distant future. I've heard his name now for a year simply because I think teams like him. When we were talking about Seattle and Horvat,

and I have to tell you, there was some dispute. Some people think Seattle was in. Some people think they never were that serious. I don't think they're in this anymore, at least right now. But one of the things that someone said to me is if you're Seattle, you might have something magic this year. How much do you want to tamper with that? And I think that's a very, very fair question. I always remember that's the Al McInnes question. The Al McInnes question is, what does this do to your room? Right. I think also, I'm really curious to see where this Matt Dumba situation goes. How do you feel about it here? This is, you know,

a couple of scratches and this is uncomfortable territory for Matt matt dumba yeah it is it's it's not easy i don't have a good answer for you on this jeff until i see how long this continues like does this continue to be a regular thing then we've got a problem if this just goes away it's a blip and we all move on i think the question is does this stay or do they keep coming back to it is he in and out of the lineup we shall see quick pause back with some emails 32thoughts.ca

couple of voicemails as well 1-833-311-3232 32 Thoughts the podcast continues Okay, a couple of emails, Elliot, a couple of voicemails as well. Ryan and Victoria. Hi, it's Ryan and Victoria. Love the show. I remember Jeff saying about five years ago that when Jonathan Taves is ready to leave Chicago, the Winnipeg Jets better be ready is now not the time.

You guys were saying Taves could be had for a third round pick, make it happen Winnipeg, and then ouch. Good job, Elliot. Don't like that. You know what it is, Elliot? Everybody loves the local kid comes home story yes that's what it is i remember

a few years ago uh we had one of the darcy oak events in winnipeg and taves showed up and i interviewed him for it and at the time this was several years ago and i said he was still in the prime of his time with chicago and uh i said him, you know, when your career is over, would you ever come back to the 204 area code? And he kind of, and the audience cheered. He played to them a little bit, but you know, Jeff, I never thought we'd be talking about that. I know.

Never. That was just like one of those joke things you say for the home fans and Taze kind of plays along just to, so everybody has a good night and leaves more money at the silent auction. Never thought we'd be talking about that. Okay. Voicemail time. Let's hear from Andrew. Hi Jeff. Hi Elliot. This is Andrew from Blainville, Quebec. I'm just curious about your thoughts on why the trade market has been so slow.

At this point in the season, we, you know in the season, we're at the 50 game mark. I'm aware it's about the heat up, but I feel like in previous seasons, we've seen at least some significant movement. And at this point, we really haven't seen much. Love the show. Keep up the good work. Jeff's wife, Amal's wife, and Elliot's wife.

That's a nice touch. I like that. Thank you. Thank you, Andrew. Yes, always thank the wives. Happy wife, happy life. Amen. I think it's simply the cap.

Not only the cap, but just how many teams are expecting all their injured players to come back. You know, you look at Colorado, we're all talking about what move is Colorado going to make at this point in time. They're expecting everybody to return in season. So not only do you have to make a move within the cap, but you've got to be able to prepare for everybody coming back off LTIR and back onto your cap. So it's extremely difficult. And that's the simple reason it's the cap and all the teams and long-term injury. ezra in owens sound uh

and thank you for that voicemail andrew ezra and owens sound hey boys when you were talking about possible trades on saturday night you mentioned teams allowing other teams to speak to their possible trade candidate players why would teams not allow their players to talk to other teams what are the advantages or disadvantages by doing that? Saw you guys Thursday night in Owen Sound. Enjoy the cigars. Did you get cigars? Yes.

We were talking about cigars on the pod and one of the families there, they were sitting right in the front. And I think Ezra was one of the boys of the family. Nice. They gave a couple of cigars, which was hugely appreciated. And I still have, and I look forward to enjoying with some of our coworkers at a certain time. It's very simple.

There are some teams, and I know the Canucks believe this, they believe it hands too much power to the player. Now, as we've mentioned, San Jose and Columbus feel differently. However, at the end, it san jose and columbus that have to make the decision and also as you know jeff i believe there are always shades of gray and sometimes people's feelings can change yes uh okay a voicemail here from an anonymous listener hit it emil wait a sec if you're anonymous we're going to hear the voice and know who this is or someone will someone will probably the person who left it but didn't leave their name for shame

hey guys love the podcast watching the bruins game right now brandon carlo got a shot up high goes down the tunnel what do you think about teams being able to dress a reserve 13th forward and reserve seventh defenseman in other words someone who's ready to go maybe waiting in the room and that can come in quote unquote off the bench we already do it with goaltenders what about just having an extra defenseman or forward to take the load off the rest of the team thanks so much guys especially you elliot See you later. Thanks very much, Anonymous Caller. I unanonymously love you.

I don't like that guy. Amel, how'd he get through? I don't like that guy. So a few years ago at one of the GM meetings, Stan Bowman, when he was the general manager of the Blackhawks, he actually suggested something like this. One of the things he suggested was, why isn't it like baseball, where you can substitute anybody off the bench? And basically his idea was, if you have a 23-person roster and someone gets injured during the game,

why shouldn't you be able to say, okay, one of our players who's not dressed, they can go into the game? And this didn't go very far, but I heard it was suggested. And I actually interviewed Bowman about it for the blog. I actually don't think it's a terrible idea. I know that there's lots of people who can come up with reasons why it might be terrible.

I know injuries was the first thing, but I don't have a problem with that. If it ever got to a point where people said, we're going to do that, I'm fine with it. We have a couple more here. Steve, a Canucks fan in Edmonton. I wanted this one because I like the answer. Hey guys, curious how the information

of a player or draft pick becoming available for trade is released. Do the 32 GMs have an email chain to let everyone know a player or pick are willing to be moved, or do they just message the insiders to get the word out? Good job, Amel. Good job, Elliot. What?

Oh, this is a great group of people here. This is awful. It's Darwin's waiting room. I think it depends on the person. For example, there is a GM email chain, and names are put on the GM email chain. The general managers, I have to say, have worked much harder to keep that private. There was a time a couple of years ago where it got out a lot more and much to my disappointment, and I say that understanding of why they do this, they're much better at keeping it quiet now.

Boo. understanding of why they do this they're much better at keeping it quiet now boo yeah boo look sometimes you hear it like you talk to a lot of people and you hear hey so-and-so is is asking out or wants to be moved or so-and-so's name is out there sometimes it gets kept quiet i think the key thing is is that like i said earlier with when we're talking about the canucks i think the better your team is going the harder it is to get stuff out simply because nobody's worried about the off-ice stuff right oh the team's going well we don't talk about them as much but when teams are going poorly i think more information gets out and plus also when someone's about to be a free agent or a player clearly might not be happy with their role, you kind of poke around it and things come loose.

So I think a lot of it is circumstance. Who are you focusing on? Who are you talking to? How careful people are about things getting out? And you know what? there are times out there where people want to get a message out there whether it's a manager or an agent or or somebody else i do think that sometimes people think they're doing people a favor by putting that information out there okay we'll finish up here this has been a bad batch no one likes me it's a's a great batch. Bad batch. Bad batch. Okay, Philippe submits this. I'm a huge hockey geek from Quebec City. Go Nordiques, go.

You were a Nords fan too, eh? I love the old Nords. Oh, I love the Nords, yeah. And I'm a big fan of your podcast. We all watched Conor Bedard during the World Juniors, and what stood out to me was that he was wearing a full face visor. Do you think we will ever see these in the NHL? I know he was only wearing it because he was underage, but it would be awful if we had to wait for someone to lose an eye,

break a jaw before we start the switch to full face visor or cage. I think we're headed there eventually, Elliot. I don't know, Jeff. I don't know. How many players have been hit in the head with pucks this year and hit in the face with pucks this year? You know, I'm just saying, look, we, we went from no helmets to helmets. We went from helmets to no visors now to visors. Although certain players are grandfathered, everybody's got to wear visors after a certain time.

Now we've gone to in warmups, you've've got to wear helmets if you got into the league after a certain time. Except at the Winter Classic, by the way. Somehow that escapes because they like the two. Oh, don't be such a killjoy. And by the way, peek behind the curtain. I was bugging Elliot about that in Boston. He's like, well, you just shut up.

Yeah, like enough. Like, come on. Like, Elliot, wear the helmets. They made a big deal about the helmets in warmup, but now they're all weird. Merrick just shut up? Yeah, like enough. Like, come on. Like, Elliot, where are the helmets? They made a big deal about the helmets in warm-up, but now they're all weird. Merrick, shut up. Just enjoy yourself. Have fun for a change.

What is this fun you speak of? So the line does move. I have to say, Jeff, I've just never heard of that. I've heard of helmets before they happened obviously i heard of visors before they happened i've never heard of much of a groundswell for face masks but i think to philippe's point though it would be awful if we had to wait for a horrible injury to get that momentum going you're right nobody wants to see injuries but we have we'll see i personally think we're headed that direction anyway and much like listen much like the divisor debate was always well you know these players have

all grown up with something you know in front of their eyes to begin with this shouldn't be too much of a shift well they've also played with cages and you know full bubbles so shouldn't be too much of a jump we'll see where that one goes. Thanks to all the emails. Thanks for all the voicemails as well. And a big thanks as well, Elliot. I think you'll echo this. Thanks to everyone who came out to Hartwood Hall to see the live recording

of the podcast, you know, in sound last Thursday for Scotiabank Hockey Day in Canada. I love those events. Love, listen, we love talking to people and meeting hockey fans and one of the big thrills for me is always seeing which jerseys appear and you know which of the more unique like there was a guy there ian who actually sent us a voicemail last week on the podcast who showed up who had a san jose sharks jersey and it was the

number 75 and on the nameplate it had Jaws written on it. So I got a picture of it. I'll probably put that out this week. It's a gorgeous jersey, but I'm always interested in all the jerseys. Thanks to Bedini Band for providing the musical entertainment. One of my big thrills was hearing the opening, you know, strumming

from Dope Fiends and Booze Hounds, one of my favorite rheostatic songs that Bedini Band played behind us. And really subtly, by the way, this was real hip, but I listened back to the podcast because I remember thinking, am I hearing this right?

When Lanny McDonald went backstage to bring out the Stanley Cup, you know what the band played? What was that? Take Five. Like super, super hip, like off the cuff, like, hey, well done there. All right. i love that anyway thanks to landon mcdonald blair turnbull less binkley legend yes joey hishen

mike fuda and bobby ryan for stopping by and everybody that helped put this one together carson illage outstanding emil delage we're loathe to give the compliments but dude for those events you're the first star. La Premiere a Toile Comme un Dien Francais. Well done, Amel, once again. So thanks to everybody that made at least our tiny little portion, Elliot, of Scotiabank Hockey Day in Canada, a really big success. Thanks to everyone who downloaded and even listened to the whole thing free.

Like that's two hours and 30 minutes. i didn't realize almost that you were putting the whole thing out there so i feel very fortunate that i wasn't as flippant as i could have been to a live crowd because when i realized you put the whole thing out there my first thing i said was oh god i hope i didn't say anything that's gonna get me fired yeah i might have um taking us out as a singer-songwriter from kalamazoo michigan who was raised in the colorado mountains after leaving berkeley college of music in boston that's a hot place casey johansing relocated to the bay area to start a music career in 2020 she released her fourth album no better time and from that record here's i try on 32 thoughts the podcast enjoy

And from that record, here's I Try on 32 Thoughts to Podcast. Enjoy. Not too close, not too harsh, not too bright. Not too fast, not enough, hard to find. I get lost when I'm reading in between the lines Tried too hard, tried it all, trying to get it right I try I try I try I try But it's you that's still on my mind Lost it once

Lost it twice Nearly lost the mind Tried to force it Tried to keep something that wasn't mine